WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: How Cult Deprogramming Works 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:04.080 Good morning Stuff you should know listeners. This is one 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:07.480 of your faithful co leaders, Charles W. Chuck Bryant, here 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:11.600 to tell you about cult de programming. This is my 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.880 Saturday Select pick for the week. It's from September two 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:17.759 thousand fifteen. You know that Josh and I love to 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:21.119 talk about cults really fascinate us. But here's the flip 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.119 side cult deep programming. After you leave the cult, you 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:25.840 can't just walk out of there. It takes a lot 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:29.360 of a lot of effort to normalize yourself back into society, 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.280 and cult de programming is how you do it. So 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:38.920 here you go. Check it out right now. Welcome to 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.559 Stuff you Should Know, a production of I Heart Radios 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:50.040 How Stuff Works. Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.680 Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant. I'm not always whacky Jerry, 0:00:55.000 --> 0:01:00.280 So this is stuff you should know once again. Sixty 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.400 twos preceding the record button being pressed is the gold. 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:07.760 I wish we could sell that stuff, sell it on 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.840 the street. People be hooked on. You know what the 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:14.199 street value of that ment it is? What right about 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:19.240 five bucks? And it's not bad? Yeah? Uh Chuck, Yes, 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:25.360 have you ever been in a cult. Um. No, not technically, 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:32.520 not at all. Remember we've done episodes on cults, on brainwashings. Uh, 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.840 this is pretty much the natural extension of that progression. Yeah. 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.320 And we talked a little bit about deep programming and 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:42.000 the cults one probably, but this one, it turns out, 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:44.800 has a lot of interesting history I didn't know about. Yes, man, 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:48.960 it is Are You Crazy? A dark spot on America's 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:53.360 recent path yet again, yet another one because apparently the 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:57.440 powers that be really got everybody so scared over things 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.440 like the communist threat or new clear weapons or what 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.120 have you that America is basically it's like a herd 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:08.560 of spook cattle for many decades, and they they we 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:13.600 channeled our anxieties out on anything other or different, and 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:15.880 this is a great case of that. Yeah, and the 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.639 courts will get to this. But they said roundly that 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.480 you can kidnap and torture and rape people as long 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.520 as it's out of love, as long as those people 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:28.360 are weirdos. Yeah, as long as it's apparent loving their 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.919 child in the harshest extreme way. Man, it's a good 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:37.560 imagine crazy what people went through. So um, the whole 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:39.760 thing we should say, like America did lose its mind 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:43.720 collectively for many years. And it happens from time and time. 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.320 Started in a good old Salem before there wasn't even 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:51.200 in America. It's a long tradition here in this country 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:56.200 of everybody, yeah going crazy. Um. And like I said, 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.920 this is a case of it. But this case did 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.760 coalesce or round certain things. It wasn't just out of 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.080 the blue. It wasn't out of nowhere, um for the 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:11.280 to start off with. In the late sixties, early seventies, um, 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.760 the there was a real division between generations in the 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:22.360 United States. Huge. There was the parents who still remember 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.080 the fifties, were raised in the fifties, born in the 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:28.600 fifties maybe, but definitely we're a little more button buttoned 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.760 up and up with ike. Then their kids were. Okay, 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:35.960 So imagine if you have kids and they're going through 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.800 this rebellious phase and they're smoking pot and they're like 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:43.080 wearing motorcycle boots and rocking out to the Beatles and 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:45.280 like flipping you off every time you look at them. 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:49.760 And then all of a sudden, this weird tranquility comes 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:52.280 over them and they start wearing robes and they shave 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.800 their head. Except for there's a long ponytail in the back, 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.120 or they're still wearing boots and smoking pot listen to 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:01.000 the beetles right, or or they start wearing bow ties 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:07.320 and um, like quoting scripture to hear. Wouldn't you be like, well, 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:09.880 that's a little weird. This is a little odd. Something's 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:13.280 going on here with with my kid. My kid who's 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:17.680 twenty underwent like a serious religious conversion that has never 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.120 been seen before in our family. That's a little weird 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.000 and that's not one I approve of. Yeah. So there's 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.520 these groups that at the time were called cults, but 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:30.760 today if you read sociology texts or studies or whatever, 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:36.719 they're called new religious movements sex right with the ct 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:42.200 Y Yeah, um, And these groups are basically at the 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.360 time they were all termed cults. And you usually when 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.120 you think cold especially United States, it's like, um, some 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.159 sort of Eastern religion or something like that. But it 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:55.200 turns out the cult movement of the early seventies, late 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:59.080 sixties and into the eighties we're actually um, for the 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:03.839 most part, Bible based like Christian cults, but they they 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.719 took Christian beliefs and teachings and went really far out 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:11.880 there with them, um or there was a huge influx 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.840 of Eastern thought, in Eastern religion into the United States too, 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.760 and anybody who joined this group joined a cult. But 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.000 today if you call him a cult, it's not very nice. 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.840 You call him a new religious movement or a sect, right, 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:27.159 or in the case of the Source Family, which I've 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.120 talked about as being my favorite cult, Yeah, they just 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:34.680 like to have sex and do drugs a lot, the Source, right, 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.200 they were a cult though, Uh well yeah, sure by 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.320 those definitions right at the time. Yeah, I'd call him 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.600 a commune now probably that had a band and a 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:50.840 charismatic hang gliding frontman. Right. The charismatic thing is a 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:55.120 huge thing. That's usually the one thing that is the 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.360 commonality and all new religious movements they are centered around 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:04.280 um a central figure. But as the guy who wrote 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.520 this article, um, which is a pretty good article, I 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:09.800 have to say, this is not the Grabster, was it. No, 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:14.000 it was a a newbie. This newbie has taken the 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.080 Grabster's stuff. Yeah it should have been the Grabster. Well, 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:21.240 the Grabster has gotten a serious focus on all things 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:25.560 dungeons and dragons these days over I Ohn nine. Yeah, 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:30.039 he's moved on and up. But anyway, the author of 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.080 this article points out that cole is it's a very 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.360 slippery word. It has like an in group out group 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:42.520 kind of sentimentality attached to the point is over the 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.800 over the years. Um. This whole idea of your kid 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:52.880 going undergoing a religious conversion and then just kind of 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:57.520 becoming different. It was a bothersome and worrisome to the parents. 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:00.960 But then Jones Town happened, and all of a sudden, 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:05.839 any kind of semblance of law or religious freedom or 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.640 anything like that went right out the window because it 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:11.600 was shown and even before that, thanks to the Manson family, 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:15.240 but really UM, with Jonestown, it was shown that these 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.960 cults that supposedly, up to that point people thought were 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:24.040 harmless or even helpful, um, could be very destructive. Over 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:28.680 nine people died. Uh. So you know, I get it. 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:33.440 I get why people would be upset about perhaps their 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.640 children joining something that in any way, shape or form 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:42.400 resembles Jonestown. So what do you do? Well, you could 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:45.760 hire someone to kidnap and torture and beat them and 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.560 yell at them into submission a k A D D 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:55.200 programming a k a uh brainwashing or I guess they 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.160 would call it reverse brainwashing. Right. That was kind of 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.960 the key is this idea that, um, you were combating 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.720 this conversion to a new religious movement or a cult 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.840 group or whatever, um, based on the idea that your 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:16.160 kid couldn't possibly have undergone this conversion and joined this 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.800 group based on his or her own free will. That's right. 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:24.560 So thanks to that mindset, UH and a guy named 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:28.920 Ted Patrick we'll talk about right now, the Cult Awareness 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:33.400 Network was formed, and Ted was There were there were 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.120 many D programmers, well I don't know about many, but 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.000 there were a handful of D programmers in this time period, 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:42.760 but Mr Patrick sort of led the way. Uh. He 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.560 was born in the Red Light District of Chattanooga, Tennessee, 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:49.880 and apparently had a really bad speech impediment such there 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.400 that he couldn't even communicate with people. So he dove 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:58.120 into religion and what he said was, quote, it wasn't 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:00.280 long before I could think of was health are in 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:04.080 damn nation? And um. So he had a bad experience 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:07.439 with religion growing up and then had an opportunity in 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:14.880 the early seventies to uh go and save somebody's kid 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.360 who fell into what they called a cult. Well, it 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.480 was offered a job. Yes, so there it was a 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:28.439 scriptural based um Christian group called the Children of God 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:32.679 now called the International Family, and apparently, um they had 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.560 tried to recruit Ted's son and nephew out on the 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.760 beach in San Diego and Ted was like, what do 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.280 you mean some group tried to recruit you. I guess 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.520 I'll just go infiltrate this group. Yeah. Well he was 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.920 also approached by parents who's children were in this what 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:54.360 they called a cult. So yeah, he Infiltrateed and said 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.560 you know what, Uh, they were brainwashed and I'm the 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:59.960 guy that can fix it for a fee. Yeah, which 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.840 is weird because um so, Ted Patrick and somebody uh 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.840 named Mia Donovan came out with a documentary recently called 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:11.920 Deprogrammed to see that. Uh yeah, apparently it's very tough 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.160 to find and get your hands on, but it's out 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.960 there somewhere, um, and it's all about Ted Patrick. Ted 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:23.600 black Lightning Patrick is his name, and he um. He 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:28.280 was an unlikely candidate to become the face and the 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.240 leader of what was an anti cult movement that had 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.560 arisen in the United States thanks to Jonestown and thanks 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.520 to the fact that kids were joining cults left and right. Um, 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.440 he was a high school dropout, Like you said, he 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.920 was a he had had his own um experiences with 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.720 scripture and Bible beating and all of that kind of stuff, 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:53.240 and he, I guess was his heart was in the 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.520 right place from what I understand, But he did some 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:00.520 really really questionable stuff over the years after reform. The 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.600 COLT Action or Awareness network. Do you think it start 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.199 was in the right place. That's that's how MEA. Donovan 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.240 puts it. Really. I think he's trying to make money. 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:13.960 So that was another thing too. Supposedly he was working 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:18.280 not for profit, that his expenses were paid and he 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:21.640 wasn't really pocketing the money himself. But he went the 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.960 other way pretty quickly because at one point he was 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.320 charging up to grand which would be the equivalent of 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:32.120 about a hundred and twenty dollars for each case today 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:36.720 to uh to deprogram, to kidnap and deprogram your child. Yeah, 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:41.040 a lot of money. Uh so he uh, he basically 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:44.920 at the very beginning said you know what, uh, how 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.560 do we get away with this? And he said, I 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:50.960 think if we are working with the parents, then we 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.720 won't be prosecuted for kidnapping because it's their own kid. 0:11:55.600 --> 0:12:02.240 So I won't buy proxy beat affiliated an accomplice because 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.880 it's their children. Yeah, you can't kidnap your own child 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:08.800 in ninete, No, you can't, UM, And so that worked 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:14.120 at the time. Twenty one was the federal age for miners, 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.800 right or for an adult. Anything below twenty one you 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.880 were a minor unless the state had gone in and 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.640 rewritten law and said now it's actually eighteen or nineteen 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.640 or whatever. So that that covered like a pretty decent 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:32.640 amount of the UM emerging cult population. Yeah, and he 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.520 also figured that I won't get in trouble because once 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.200 we have freed these people and deprogrammed them, they won't 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.760 breast charges. It's like they'll be delighted, right exactly there, 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:45.040 they're brainwashed. All we have to do is on brainwashed them. 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.000 The other way that he figured out UM they could 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:52.720 be protected by law was if if the member, the 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:56.240 cult member was an adult, they could apply for what's 0:12:56.280 --> 0:13:01.920 called the conservatorship. Yes, and this is basically UM based 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:05.600 on that old kind of law where uh husband could 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.079 have his hysterical wife committed if he didn't like our attitude, 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:11.840 that kind of thing where there's a very very loose 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:16.600 burden of proof on demonstrating that the person was out 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.400 of their mind, so much so that in this point 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:23.040 in time in America, if you were um high, if 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:26.199 you hired a cult deep programmer, all you had to 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:29.520 do was also shell out five dred bucks or something 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.240 for a psychologist who would come in and say, the 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.719 very fact that they're a member of this cult demonstrates 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.480 that they are mentally ill, and therefore power over them 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.360 should be granted to their parents, even those persons an adult. 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.439 And once that power was granted to the parent, the 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.520 parent could extend that power to the cult deep programmers, 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.520 who would then go and kidnap the cult member and 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.280 then begin the process of deep programming. Yeah, and they 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.760 wouldn't even make any attempts to assess their mental state. 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.439 It was just sort of I don't know about grandfather Inn, 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:00.440 but it was just sort of lumped in under the 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:05.120 umbrella of the conservatorship. Yeah, thank you again. Psychology Where 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:09.360 to go? So, well, should we talk about some of 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:11.680 his greatest hits? Well, let's take a let's take a 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:45.320 break first. Okay, alright, so Patrick, the first thing he 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.880 did when he first started doing this was because he 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.120 didn't really have a shop set up or a staff 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:56.680 at this point. He hired um thugs street thugs too 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.440 do the kidnapping. He would just pay dudes that, look, 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.440 we're tough Ruffians as they were called, you know, how 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.920 to abduct these kids, you know, like with UM. Whenever 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:10.400 you hear like of a UM a private investigator making 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.000 air quotes like is also involved in like a jewel 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.920 heist or something like that, where there's that real like 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:21.280 gray area that's occupied by some people who are maybe 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.280 working on the side of the law, but really they're 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.840 doing really unlawful things to achieve those ends. These are 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.240 the kind of people that were hired by the Cult 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.440 Awareness Network, that's right. Uh And he uh eventually was 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:37.440 joined by someone named Sandra Sachs, who was a housewife 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:42.440 whose son was deprogrammed, and from I believe the Harry Chrishnas. 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:46.320 And then he got to think of a guy named Goose. 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:48.840 I'm not sure of Goose's real name, but he was 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.800 his became ultimately his like a big henchman. So they 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:54.800 were sort of the three heading up the network early 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:56.920 on at least. So one of the things he did, 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:02.800 UM it wasn't always uh religious cults even he was 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.080 hired basically anytime a parent didn't like what their kid 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.640 was doing, they could hire him to kidnap them and 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:14.240 scream at them and handcuffed them to a bed for 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.840 a week until they said they didn't want to do 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.200 what they were doing, whether it was being a lesbian 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.440 or just being a converted Catholic. Yeah. There was one 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:26.200 case that he got in trouble for for false imprisonment 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.160 I believe, out in denver Um where a woman had 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:34.040 left the Greek Orthodox Church to go live her own life, 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.960 and her parents didn't like that, so they hired Ted 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:43.040 and his company two deep programmer yeah I guess or 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.720 reprogrammer back into the Greek Orthodox Church. There was two girls, 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.720 two daughters, and uh. Their quote at the end of 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.800 this ordeal was there was nothing to deep program, right, 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.520 we just left the church for another one. Yeah. Yeah. 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.640 There's another woman, an English professor out in California and 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.560 Sam this go named Sarah Worth, and she had become 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:08.280 an anti nuke activist, civil rights activist as well. Her 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.200 her mother back in Pennsylvania thought that that just was 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:15.159 very unbecoming, so she hired the Cult Awareness Network to 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:20.439 deprogramm or daughter. That's right, this is going on, and 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:22.680 it was legal, well not I don't know about legal, 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:24.920 but it was protected. Here's the thing, so let's talk 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:29.080 about why this was legal or quasi legal at the time. Again, 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:33.879 America has really really scared that there's this cult movement 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.600 going on, that the youth of America is losing its 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:38.600 free will. This is what the whole thing is based on, 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.280 that there are groups, insidious groups out there who are 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:46.800 recruiting and brainwashing our kids. What's to become of America 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:48.840 If all of our kids are running around its harrid 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:52.400 Christnas or Bible thumpers or what have you. They're the future. 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:55.359 So we have to fight this. And if they're being brainwashed, 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.879 you need to de brainwash them. So not only was 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.800 it groups like the Culti Earnest Network who were thinking 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.040 these things, they were also like drumming up a lot 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:06.240 of publicity as well. Yeah, they thought it was a 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.760 big conspiracy. Yeah, a communist conspiracy is what a lot 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.040 of people said too, that this is the Ultimately the 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:14.920 Communists were behind it. So not only is it this 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.399 obscure fringe group that knows how to work the media, 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.720 who believes this. It's also the people reading the newspaper 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:27.320 like parents, cops, judges, juries, and if you take someone 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:31.240 to court for kidnapping you and beating you up until 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.119 you agree to stop being a harrid Krishna, and the 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:39.199 judge is convinced that you are have been brainwashed by 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.720 the Harry Christmas, the judge is not going to rule 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:46.080 in your favor. And therefore, this whole technique, this whole 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.919 method that was used for more than a decade was 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.639 quasi legal. For as many times as he was dragged 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:56.480 into court, Ted Patrick was only imprisoned twice, one time 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.560 for like ten days and another time for sixty. Yeah, 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:05.960 there was one famous case, uh Stephanie Ryth Miller in Ohio. Um, 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:10.199 she her parents hired her or hired Patrick and his 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.760 crew because, uh, well because she was a lesbian. Well, 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:17.280 they suspected she was a lesbian, Yes, was she in fact? Yes? 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.040 So they paid eight thousand dollars which would be twenty 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:23.920 one grand today to kidnap her. She was nineteen years old. 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:26.320 She was walking on the street with her friend on 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.640 the sidewalk. They pull up in a van, They mace 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.119 her friend, and they throw her in the back of 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:34.560 the van and uh, you know, subdue her. She was 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:38.480 driven to Alabama from Ohio. Uh and over the course 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.400 in the next seven days, was raped once a day 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.600 um by a guy named James Row who was one 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.760 of the henchmen that worked with Patrick right in order 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:52.600 to get her back into the heterosexual mindset, right yeah. Uh. 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.000 Which we're going to do a whole podcast on gay 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:58.360 d programming at some point, um, because that's a whole 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.879 different thing, but that has a roots and something like 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:05.119 this obviously, Uh. At the trial, they um, because this 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:10.240 did go to trial, Um, the defense attacked her roommate 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.840 who was gay and said, you know, look at her 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:16.200 boots and her pickup truck, and she has a Doberman 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:20.480 pincher like this is very unbecoming. Uh, she has a 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.720 very over overbearing style. Where they were trying to prove 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.080 was that the roommate had brainwashed her into becoming a 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.040 lesbian and just look at her with her boots and 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:37.520 her pickup truck. So eventually goes to trial and the judge, UM, 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:41.480 Hamilton County Judge Simon Lese l e I s he 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:45.560 was not very sympathetic at all of her lifestyle of course. Uh. 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.920 He said homosexuality was immoral and uh. Even he told 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.640 the jury that the lifestyle was an issue, but I'm 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:54.760 not going to represent to you that I approve of 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:59.679 the sexual preference. And she called it unnatural. So eventually 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:02.240 he said what the parents did was wrong, but I 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.280 don't think there's any question that they did was totally 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.960 done out of love for their daughter. Uh. And he 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:11.919 described the tactics, even the rape, as to detract, like 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:16.240 you said, from her lesbianism and attractor to heterosexual activity. Lord. 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:19.240 So he got off with that one, huh uh yeah, 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:21.240 And I don't think he was actually in the room 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:23.159 like it was. There was a lot of back and 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:25.200 forth on like what he knew and what he didn't 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:27.399 know about this case. But the guy who raped her 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:29.560 got away with it. And this was I mean, that 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:33.040 was again he was dragged a court over and over again, 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.320 and it wasn't a lot of the cult groups did 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:39.480 not fight back, and in some cases because they didn't 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.320 want to open their books from what I understand, which 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.040 they may have had to had they fought anything like 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:49.920 this in court, but also because America as a whole 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:53.520 was against them, Like have you remember airplane the original one. 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:55.439 I just watched it the other day where he just 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:57.439 beats up a bunch of moonies in the airport who 0:21:57.480 --> 0:21:59.720 are trying to like offer him a free flower. Yeah, 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.880 one of them is Joe Iszuzu. For God's sake, he's 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:06.760 America's sweetheart. He should have been beating up for that. So, um, 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:10.359 there was this this It was a joke, obviously, but 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:13.840 it it definitely pointed out this whole sentiment that America 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:16.040 had towards cult at the time, which was like they 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:19.120 it was open season, man, they were fair game inside 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:22.160 and outside of court. There's an indictment in New York 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:26.800 where they indicted some Harri Christna leaders for using mind control. 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.639 In an indictment in a court of law, the words 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:34.679 mind control were used to indict somebody for a crime 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:38.399 which whis never been even improven, Like, how do you 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:42.240 mind control somebody? It's crazy. But this was like the 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:45.240 kind of the sentiment that was going on at the time, right, 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:49.520 And so you could be if you were a member 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:53.520 of what was considered a cult group and your parents 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:56.520 were well healed enough to afford the cult awareness network, 0:22:56.960 --> 0:22:59.560 you could be sitting there hanging out in the commune 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:03.840 one day, playing your acoustic guitar, what have you thinking 0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:07.280 about consciousness and the universality of it? And all of 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:09.920 a sudden, the door gets kicked in and Ted Patrick 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:14.919 and some of his henchmen enter grab you. Your buddy 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:17.080 stands up to be like, hey man, you can't do that, 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:20.080 and they mace him and they take you, throw you 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:23.439 in a van, drive you several states over, maybe to 0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:26.080 your parents house. I think they frequently used the parents 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:29.320 house because it added like an extra sense of legality 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:32.800 to it. And then they would keep you there for 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.480 as long as they wanted to. They would beat you. 0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:41.440 They would um abuse you physically, emotionally, verbally um. They 0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:45.600 would starve you, they would deprive you of sleep um, 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:48.200 and you weren't allowed to leave. You were berated constantly. 0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:50.480 They would take shifts, they would have your family come 0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:55.119 in and berate you. And all of this was completely 0:23:55.160 --> 0:23:58.399 made up out of whole cloth by Ted Patrick, Like 0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:00.840 he he had no training. What's however, in any kind 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:04.000 of brainwash techniques, Well, there is no training, right he 0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:06.680 but he just kind of intuitively got that, like if 0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:09.199 you deprive someone of sleep or food, they'll start to 0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:12.920 do what you want them to and Um, the whole 0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:15.119 goal of it, as far as he was concerned, it 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:18.840 was to create um, to snap somebody out of it. 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:24.120 And when somebody snapped, they basically gave into your will 0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:26.560 and that they were no longer resisting. They were no 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:30.080 longer saying, uh, my right to be a hard Christian 0:24:30.119 --> 0:24:33.199 is protected by the First Amendment. You have kidnapped me. 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:36.919 I want to go, Please leave, Please leave me alone. 0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:39.840 They just said, fine, you're right, I don't want to 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:42.679 be a hard Christian anymore. That could be snapping. It 0:24:42.680 --> 0:24:45.960