1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Good morning Stuff you should know listeners. This is one 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: of your faithful co leaders, Charles W. Chuck Bryant, here 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: to tell you about cult de programming. This is my 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Saturday Select pick for the week. It's from September two 5 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: thousand fifteen. You know that Josh and I love to 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: talk about cults really fascinate us. But here's the flip 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: side cult deep programming. After you leave the cult, you 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: can't just walk out of there. It takes a lot 9 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: of a lot of effort to normalize yourself back into society, 10 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: and cult de programming is how you do it. So 11 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: here you go. Check it out right now. Welcome to 12 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know, a production of I Heart Radios 13 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant. I'm not always whacky Jerry, 15 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: So this is stuff you should know once again. Sixty 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: twos preceding the record button being pressed is the gold. 17 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: I wish we could sell that stuff, sell it on 18 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: the street. People be hooked on. You know what the 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,199 Speaker 1: street value of that ment it is? What right about 20 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: five bucks? And it's not bad? Yeah? Uh Chuck, Yes, 21 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: have you ever been in a cult. Um. No, not technically, 22 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: not at all. Remember we've done episodes on cults, on brainwashings. Uh, 23 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: this is pretty much the natural extension of that progression. Yeah. 24 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: And we talked a little bit about deep programming and 25 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: the cults one probably, but this one, it turns out, 26 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: has a lot of interesting history I didn't know about. Yes, man, 27 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: it is Are You Crazy? A dark spot on America's 28 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: recent path yet again, yet another one because apparently the 29 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: powers that be really got everybody so scared over things 30 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: like the communist threat or new clear weapons or what 31 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: have you that America is basically it's like a herd 32 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: of spook cattle for many decades, and they they we 33 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: channeled our anxieties out on anything other or different, and 34 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: this is a great case of that. Yeah, and the 35 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: courts will get to this. But they said roundly that 36 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: you can kidnap and torture and rape people as long 37 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: as it's out of love, as long as those people 38 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: are weirdos. Yeah, as long as it's apparent loving their 39 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: child in the harshest extreme way. Man, it's a good 40 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: imagine crazy what people went through. So um, the whole 41 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: thing we should say, like America did lose its mind 42 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: collectively for many years. And it happens from time and time. 43 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: Started in a good old Salem before there wasn't even 44 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: in America. It's a long tradition here in this country 45 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: of everybody, yeah going crazy. Um. And like I said, 46 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: this is a case of it. But this case did 47 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: coalesce or round certain things. It wasn't just out of 48 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: the blue. It wasn't out of nowhere, um for the 49 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: to start off with. In the late sixties, early seventies, um, 50 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: the there was a real division between generations in the 51 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: United States. Huge. There was the parents who still remember 52 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: the fifties, were raised in the fifties, born in the 53 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: fifties maybe, but definitely we're a little more button buttoned 54 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: up and up with ike. Then their kids were. Okay, 55 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: So imagine if you have kids and they're going through 56 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: this rebellious phase and they're smoking pot and they're like 57 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: wearing motorcycle boots and rocking out to the Beatles and 58 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: like flipping you off every time you look at them. 59 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, this weird tranquility comes 60 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: over them and they start wearing robes and they shave 61 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: their head. Except for there's a long ponytail in the back, 62 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: or they're still wearing boots and smoking pot listen to 63 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: the beetles right, or or they start wearing bow ties 64 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: and um, like quoting scripture to hear. Wouldn't you be like, well, 65 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: that's a little weird. This is a little odd. Something's 66 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: going on here with with my kid. My kid who's 67 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: twenty underwent like a serious religious conversion that has never 68 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: been seen before in our family. That's a little weird 69 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: and that's not one I approve of. Yeah. So there's 70 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: these groups that at the time were called cults, but 71 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: today if you read sociology texts or studies or whatever, 72 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: they're called new religious movements sex right with the ct 73 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: Y Yeah, um, And these groups are basically at the 74 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: time they were all termed cults. And you usually when 75 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: you think cold especially United States, it's like, um, some 76 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: sort of Eastern religion or something like that. But it 77 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: turns out the cult movement of the early seventies, late 78 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: sixties and into the eighties we're actually um, for the 79 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: most part, Bible based like Christian cults, but they they 80 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: took Christian beliefs and teachings and went really far out 81 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: there with them, um or there was a huge influx 82 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: of Eastern thought, in Eastern religion into the United States too, 83 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: and anybody who joined this group joined a cult. But 84 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: today if you call him a cult, it's not very nice. 85 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: You call him a new religious movement or a sect, right, 86 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: or in the case of the Source Family, which I've 87 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: talked about as being my favorite cult, Yeah, they just 88 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: like to have sex and do drugs a lot, the Source, right, 89 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: they were a cult though, Uh well yeah, sure by 90 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: those definitions right at the time. Yeah, I'd call him 91 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: a commune now probably that had a band and a 92 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: charismatic hang gliding frontman. Right. The charismatic thing is a 93 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: huge thing. That's usually the one thing that is the 94 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: commonality and all new religious movements they are centered around 95 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: um a central figure. But as the guy who wrote 96 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: this article, um, which is a pretty good article, I 97 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: have to say, this is not the Grabster, was it. No, 98 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: it was a a newbie. This newbie has taken the 99 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: Grabster's stuff. Yeah it should have been the Grabster. Well, 100 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: the Grabster has gotten a serious focus on all things 101 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: dungeons and dragons these days over I Ohn nine. Yeah, 102 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: he's moved on and up. But anyway, the author of 103 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: this article points out that cole is it's a very 104 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: slippery word. It has like an in group out group 105 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: kind of sentimentality attached to the point is over the 106 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: over the years. Um. This whole idea of your kid 107 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: going undergoing a religious conversion and then just kind of 108 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: becoming different. It was a bothersome and worrisome to the parents. 109 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: But then Jones Town happened, and all of a sudden, 110 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: any kind of semblance of law or religious freedom or 111 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: anything like that went right out the window because it 112 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: was shown and even before that, thanks to the Manson family, 113 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: but really UM, with Jonestown, it was shown that these 114 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: cults that supposedly, up to that point people thought were 115 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: harmless or even helpful, um, could be very destructive. Over 116 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: nine people died. Uh. So you know, I get it. 117 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: I get why people would be upset about perhaps their 118 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: children joining something that in any way, shape or form 119 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: resembles Jonestown. So what do you do? Well, you could 120 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: hire someone to kidnap and torture and beat them and 121 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: yell at them into submission a k A D D 122 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: programming a k a uh brainwashing or I guess they 123 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: would call it reverse brainwashing. Right. That was kind of 124 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: the key is this idea that, um, you were combating 125 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: this conversion to a new religious movement or a cult 126 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: group or whatever, um, based on the idea that your 127 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: kid couldn't possibly have undergone this conversion and joined this 128 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: group based on his or her own free will. That's right. 129 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: So thanks to that mindset, UH and a guy named 130 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: Ted Patrick we'll talk about right now, the Cult Awareness 131 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: Network was formed, and Ted was There were there were 132 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: many D programmers, well I don't know about many, but 133 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: there were a handful of D programmers in this time period, 134 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: but Mr Patrick sort of led the way. Uh. He 135 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: was born in the Red Light District of Chattanooga, Tennessee, 136 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: and apparently had a really bad speech impediment such there 137 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: that he couldn't even communicate with people. So he dove 138 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: into religion and what he said was, quote, it wasn't 139 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: long before I could think of was health are in 140 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: damn nation? And um. So he had a bad experience 141 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: with religion growing up and then had an opportunity in 142 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: the early seventies to uh go and save somebody's kid 143 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: who fell into what they called a cult. Well, it 144 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: was offered a job. Yes, so there it was a 145 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: scriptural based um Christian group called the Children of God 146 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: now called the International Family, and apparently, um they had 147 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: tried to recruit Ted's son and nephew out on the 148 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: beach in San Diego and Ted was like, what do 149 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: you mean some group tried to recruit you. I guess 150 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: I'll just go infiltrate this group. Yeah. Well he was 151 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: also approached by parents who's children were in this what 152 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: they called a cult. So yeah, he Infiltrateed and said 153 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: you know what, Uh, they were brainwashed and I'm the 154 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: guy that can fix it for a fee. Yeah, which 155 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: is weird because um so, Ted Patrick and somebody uh 156 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: named Mia Donovan came out with a documentary recently called 157 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: Deprogrammed to see that. Uh yeah, apparently it's very tough 158 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: to find and get your hands on, but it's out 159 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: there somewhere, um, and it's all about Ted Patrick. Ted 160 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: black Lightning Patrick is his name, and he um. He 161 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: was an unlikely candidate to become the face and the 162 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: leader of what was an anti cult movement that had 163 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: arisen in the United States thanks to Jonestown and thanks 164 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: to the fact that kids were joining cults left and right. Um, 165 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: he was a high school dropout, Like you said, he 166 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: was a he had had his own um experiences with 167 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: scripture and Bible beating and all of that kind of stuff, 168 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: and he, I guess was his heart was in the 169 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: right place from what I understand, But he did some 170 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: really really questionable stuff over the years after reform. The 171 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: COLT Action or Awareness network. Do you think it start 172 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 1: was in the right place. That's that's how MEA. Donovan 173 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: puts it. Really. I think he's trying to make money. 174 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: So that was another thing too. Supposedly he was working 175 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: not for profit, that his expenses were paid and he 176 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: wasn't really pocketing the money himself. But he went the 177 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: other way pretty quickly because at one point he was 178 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: charging up to grand which would be the equivalent of 179 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: about a hundred and twenty dollars for each case today 180 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: to uh to deprogram, to kidnap and deprogram your child. Yeah, 181 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: a lot of money. Uh so he uh, he basically 182 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: at the very beginning said you know what, uh, how 183 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: do we get away with this? And he said, I 184 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: think if we are working with the parents, then we 185 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: won't be prosecuted for kidnapping because it's their own kid. 186 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: So I won't buy proxy beat affiliated an accomplice because 187 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: it's their children. Yeah, you can't kidnap your own child 188 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: in ninete, No, you can't, UM, And so that worked 189 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: at the time. Twenty one was the federal age for miners, 190 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: right or for an adult. Anything below twenty one you 191 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: were a minor unless the state had gone in and 192 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: rewritten law and said now it's actually eighteen or nineteen 193 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: or whatever. So that that covered like a pretty decent 194 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: amount of the UM emerging cult population. Yeah, and he 195 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: also figured that I won't get in trouble because once 196 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: we have freed these people and deprogrammed them, they won't 197 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: breast charges. It's like they'll be delighted, right exactly there, 198 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: they're brainwashed. All we have to do is on brainwashed them. 199 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: The other way that he figured out UM they could 200 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: be protected by law was if if the member, the 201 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: cult member was an adult, they could apply for what's 202 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: called the conservatorship. Yes, and this is basically UM based 203 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: on that old kind of law where uh husband could 204 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 1: have his hysterical wife committed if he didn't like our attitude, 205 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: that kind of thing where there's a very very loose 206 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: burden of proof on demonstrating that the person was out 207 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: of their mind, so much so that in this point 208 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: in time in America, if you were um high, if 209 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: you hired a cult deep programmer, all you had to 210 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: do was also shell out five dred bucks or something 211 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: for a psychologist who would come in and say, the 212 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 1: very fact that they're a member of this cult demonstrates 213 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: that they are mentally ill, and therefore power over them 214 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: should be granted to their parents, even those persons an adult. 215 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 1: And once that power was granted to the parent, the 216 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: parent could extend that power to the cult deep programmers, 217 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: who would then go and kidnap the cult member and 218 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: then begin the process of deep programming. Yeah, and they 219 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't even make any attempts to assess their mental state. 220 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: It was just sort of I don't know about grandfather Inn, 221 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: but it was just sort of lumped in under the 222 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: umbrella of the conservatorship. Yeah, thank you again. Psychology Where 223 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: to go? So, well, should we talk about some of 224 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: his greatest hits? Well, let's take a let's take a 225 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: break first. Okay, alright, so Patrick, the first thing he 226 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: did when he first started doing this was because he 227 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: didn't really have a shop set up or a staff 228 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: at this point. He hired um thugs street thugs too 229 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: do the kidnapping. He would just pay dudes that, look, 230 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: we're tough Ruffians as they were called, you know, how 231 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: to abduct these kids, you know, like with UM. Whenever 232 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: you hear like of a UM a private investigator making 233 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: air quotes like is also involved in like a jewel 234 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: heist or something like that, where there's that real like 235 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: gray area that's occupied by some people who are maybe 236 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: working on the side of the law, but really they're 237 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: doing really unlawful things to achieve those ends. These are 238 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: the kind of people that were hired by the Cult 239 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: Awareness Network, that's right. Uh And he uh eventually was 240 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: joined by someone named Sandra Sachs, who was a housewife 241 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: whose son was deprogrammed, and from I believe the Harry Chrishnas. 242 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: And then he got to think of a guy named Goose. 243 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: I'm not sure of Goose's real name, but he was 244 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: his became ultimately his like a big henchman. So they 245 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: were sort of the three heading up the network early 246 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: on at least. So one of the things he did, 247 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: UM it wasn't always uh religious cults even he was 248 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: hired basically anytime a parent didn't like what their kid 249 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: was doing, they could hire him to kidnap them and 250 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: scream at them and handcuffed them to a bed for 251 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: a week until they said they didn't want to do 252 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: what they were doing, whether it was being a lesbian 253 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: or just being a converted Catholic. Yeah. There was one 254 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: case that he got in trouble for for false imprisonment 255 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: I believe, out in denver Um where a woman had 256 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: left the Greek Orthodox Church to go live her own life, 257 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: and her parents didn't like that, so they hired Ted 258 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: and his company two deep programmer yeah I guess or 259 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: reprogrammer back into the Greek Orthodox Church. There was two girls, 260 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: two daughters, and uh. Their quote at the end of 261 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: this ordeal was there was nothing to deep program, right, 262 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: we just left the church for another one. Yeah. Yeah. 263 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: There's another woman, an English professor out in California and 264 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: Sam this go named Sarah Worth, and she had become 265 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: an anti nuke activist, civil rights activist as well. Her 266 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: her mother back in Pennsylvania thought that that just was 267 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: very unbecoming, so she hired the Cult Awareness Network to 268 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: deprogramm or daughter. That's right, this is going on, and 269 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: it was legal, well not I don't know about legal, 270 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: but it was protected. Here's the thing, so let's talk 271 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: about why this was legal or quasi legal at the time. Again, 272 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: America has really really scared that there's this cult movement 273 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: going on, that the youth of America is losing its 274 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: free will. This is what the whole thing is based on, 275 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: that there are groups, insidious groups out there who are 276 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: recruiting and brainwashing our kids. What's to become of America 277 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: If all of our kids are running around its harrid 278 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: Christnas or Bible thumpers or what have you. They're the future. 279 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: So we have to fight this. And if they're being brainwashed, 280 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: you need to de brainwash them. So not only was 281 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: it groups like the Culti Earnest Network who were thinking 282 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: these things, they were also like drumming up a lot 283 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: of publicity as well. Yeah, they thought it was a 284 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: big conspiracy. Yeah, a communist conspiracy is what a lot 285 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: of people said too, that this is the Ultimately the 286 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: Communists were behind it. So not only is it this 287 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: obscure fringe group that knows how to work the media, 288 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: who believes this. It's also the people reading the newspaper 289 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: like parents, cops, judges, juries, and if you take someone 290 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: to court for kidnapping you and beating you up until 291 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 1: you agree to stop being a harrid Krishna, and the 292 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: judge is convinced that you are have been brainwashed by 293 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: the Harry Christmas, the judge is not going to rule 294 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: in your favor. And therefore, this whole technique, this whole 295 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: method that was used for more than a decade was 296 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: quasi legal. For as many times as he was dragged 297 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: into court, Ted Patrick was only imprisoned twice, one time 298 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: for like ten days and another time for sixty. Yeah, 299 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: there was one famous case, uh Stephanie Ryth Miller in Ohio. Um, 300 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 1: she her parents hired her or hired Patrick and his 301 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: crew because, uh, well because she was a lesbian. Well, 302 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: they suspected she was a lesbian, Yes, was she in fact? Yes? 303 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: So they paid eight thousand dollars which would be twenty 304 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: one grand today to kidnap her. She was nineteen years old. 305 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: She was walking on the street with her friend on 306 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: the sidewalk. They pull up in a van, They mace 307 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: her friend, and they throw her in the back of 308 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: the van and uh, you know, subdue her. She was 309 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: driven to Alabama from Ohio. Uh and over the course 310 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: in the next seven days, was raped once a day 311 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: um by a guy named James Row who was one 312 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: of the henchmen that worked with Patrick right in order 313 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: to get her back into the heterosexual mindset, right yeah. Uh. 314 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: Which we're going to do a whole podcast on gay 315 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: d programming at some point, um, because that's a whole 316 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: different thing, but that has a roots and something like 317 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: this obviously, Uh. At the trial, they um, because this 318 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: did go to trial, Um, the defense attacked her roommate 319 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: who was gay and said, you know, look at her 320 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: boots and her pickup truck, and she has a Doberman 321 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: pincher like this is very unbecoming. Uh, she has a 322 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: very over overbearing style. Where they were trying to prove 323 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: was that the roommate had brainwashed her into becoming a 324 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: lesbian and just look at her with her boots and 325 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: her pickup truck. So eventually goes to trial and the judge, UM, 326 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: Hamilton County Judge Simon Lese l e I s he 327 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: was not very sympathetic at all of her lifestyle of course. Uh. 328 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: He said homosexuality was immoral and uh. Even he told 329 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: the jury that the lifestyle was an issue, but I'm 330 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: not going to represent to you that I approve of 331 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 1: the sexual preference. And she called it unnatural. So eventually 332 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: he said what the parents did was wrong, but I 333 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: don't think there's any question that they did was totally 334 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: done out of love for their daughter. Uh. And he 335 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: described the tactics, even the rape, as to detract, like 336 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: you said, from her lesbianism and attractor to heterosexual activity. Lord. 337 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: So he got off with that one, huh uh yeah, 338 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: And I don't think he was actually in the room 339 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: like it was. There was a lot of back and 340 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: forth on like what he knew and what he didn't 341 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: know about this case. But the guy who raped her 342 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: got away with it. And this was I mean, that 343 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: was again he was dragged a court over and over again, 344 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: and it wasn't a lot of the cult groups did 345 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: not fight back, and in some cases because they didn't 346 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: want to open their books from what I understand, which 347 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: they may have had to had they fought anything like 348 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: this in court, but also because America as a whole 349 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: was against them, Like have you remember airplane the original one. 350 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 1: I just watched it the other day where he just 351 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: beats up a bunch of moonies in the airport who 352 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: are trying to like offer him a free flower. Yeah, 353 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: one of them is Joe Iszuzu. For God's sake, he's 354 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: America's sweetheart. He should have been beating up for that. So, um, 355 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: there was this this It was a joke, obviously, but 356 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: it it definitely pointed out this whole sentiment that America 357 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: had towards cult at the time, which was like they 358 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: it was open season, man, they were fair game inside 359 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: and outside of court. There's an indictment in New York 360 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: where they indicted some Harri Christna leaders for using mind control. 361 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: In an indictment in a court of law, the words 362 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 1: mind control were used to indict somebody for a crime 363 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: which whis never been even improven, Like, how do you 364 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: mind control somebody? It's crazy. But this was like the 365 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: kind of the sentiment that was going on at the time, right, 366 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: And so you could be if you were a member 367 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: of what was considered a cult group and your parents 368 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: were well healed enough to afford the cult awareness network, 369 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: you could be sitting there hanging out in the commune 370 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: one day, playing your acoustic guitar, what have you thinking 371 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: about consciousness and the universality of it? And all of 372 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: a sudden, the door gets kicked in and Ted Patrick 373 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 1: and some of his henchmen enter grab you. Your buddy 374 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: stands up to be like, hey man, you can't do that, 375 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: and they mace him and they take you, throw you 376 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: in a van, drive you several states over, maybe to 377 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: your parents house. I think they frequently used the parents 378 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: house because it added like an extra sense of legality 379 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: to it. And then they would keep you there for 380 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: as long as they wanted to. They would beat you. 381 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: They would um abuse you physically, emotionally, verbally um. They 382 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: would starve you, they would deprive you of sleep um, 383 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: and you weren't allowed to leave. You were berated constantly. 384 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: They would take shifts, they would have your family come 385 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: in and berate you. And all of this was completely 386 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: made up out of whole cloth by Ted Patrick, Like 387 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: he he had no training. What's however, in any kind 388 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: of brainwash techniques, Well, there is no training, right he 389 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: but he just kind of intuitively got that, like if 390 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 1: you deprive someone of sleep or food, they'll start to 391 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: do what you want them to and Um, the whole 392 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: goal of it, as far as he was concerned, it 393 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: was to create um, to snap somebody out of it. 394 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: And when somebody snapped, they basically gave into your will 395 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: and that they were no longer resisting. They were no 396 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: longer saying, uh, my right to be a hard Christian 397 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: is protected by the First Amendment. You have kidnapped me. 398 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: I want to go, Please leave, Please leave me alone. 399 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: They just said, fine, you're right, I don't want to 400 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: be a hard Christian anymore. That could be snapping. It 401 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: could also be something that was a lot closer um 402 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: and complexion to something like that religious conversion, but it 403 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: would be like a conversion back where they'd start crying 404 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: and weeping. And these are the ones that were frequently 405 00:24:55,320 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: pointed to as proof positive that deprogramming actually work, because 406 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who are d programmed. 407 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: You said, this is a great thing for me, um, 408 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: But it has been explained time and time again as 409 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: basically a lot of kids who joined cults did so 410 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 1: because they felt like they weren't accepted at home or 411 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: by their families or whatever. And they would see once 412 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: they were kidnapped and and take them back to their 413 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: parents house that maybe their parents actually did care about 414 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: them more than they realized. They were willing to spend 415 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: some money and hire Black Lightning to come beat me 416 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: up until I agree to come back home. So maybe 417 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: that was the reason for this this snapping. Yeah, and 418 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: sometimes they would fake it all together to get out 419 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: of that prison, which is the case which we'll talk 420 00:25:41,720 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: about right after this break of Jason Scott. All right, 421 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: So Jason Scott, this was not a Patrick affair. This 422 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: was a guy named Rick ross H and another guy, 423 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: two guys named Mark Workman and Charles Simpson. Yes, but 424 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: they were referred by the cult Awareness Networks, that's right, 425 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: was involved. Well, yeah, they were referred, But this wasn't 426 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: Patrick heading up this operation. Uh And this is a 427 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: guy named Jason Scott, and he was kidnapped and brought 428 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: to uh out in the Booney's in Washington State and 429 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: he was held there for days against his will, physically abused, 430 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: all the stuff that we've been going over because they 431 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: wanted him to leave this Pentecostal church that he was 432 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: in with his brothers. I think his mom was in 433 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: it at one point, but she left. The sons decided 434 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: to stay and she was like, I don't like what's 435 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: going on over there, so she hired them uh to 436 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: to de program him. Um it failed in that Scott 437 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: eventually um faked that he was after four days of torture. 438 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: He faked it and said, I don't believe that stuff anymore. 439 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: He broke down in tears and said he completely rebuked 440 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: everything that he had stood for. And so they said, well, 441 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: this is great. It worked. Let's go out for a 442 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: celebration dinner with your family and um he was allowed 443 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: to use the bathroom at the restaurant by himself for 444 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: the first time in a week, and he ran to 445 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: the police and the police arrested these guys. Um, there 446 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: were there was a civil suit filed. This is where 447 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: it gets really interesting. There was a civil suit filed 448 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: on Jason Scott's behalf by counselor for the Church of Science, 449 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: lead counsel by the Church of Scientology. So now Scientology 450 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: is getting involved. They they end up bank erupting through 451 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 1: this court case. They awarded eight hundred seventy five dollars 452 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: in compensatory damages, a million and damages a punitive nature 453 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: against the Cult Awareness Network and two point five million 454 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: against Ross himself. It ended up bankrupting them, and then 455 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: the Church of Scientology buys out the Cult Awareness Network 456 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: in bankruptcy court, buyser assets, buys your logo, buys your name, 457 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: renames it the new Cult Awareness Network, and now it 458 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: is run by the Church of Scientology. Right, So, if 459 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: you're looking for help to get your kid out of 460 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: a cult, including Scientology, the helpful people there will explain 461 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: to you how great Scientology is. What's funny, though, is 462 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: that like this this Um Jason Scott case was one 463 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: of about fifty that were brought at the time through 464 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: Scientology lawyers. This this just happened to be the one 465 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: that stuck. Yeah, it went all the way to the 466 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: Supreme Court where they denied the appeal and in the 467 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: end Scott only got about five thousand dollars and two 468 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: hundred hours of profess sational services from Ross, which I 469 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: didn't understand. I'll explain it to you. So, um, they 470 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: became buddies. Apparently they did become buddies. So apparently Jason 471 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: Scott did. He forgave his mother. He also forgave Rick Ross. 472 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: He broke from the Scientology Um lawyer. He had a 473 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: different look after I guess he felt a little fleeced 474 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: maybe by the Scientologists or used, I should say, and 475 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: ended up being chummy with Rick Ross. So he sold 476 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: Rick Ross his settlement, which should have been three million 477 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: dollars for five grand and two hundred hours of his 478 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: services of deep programming services right to deep program I 479 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: think his daughter something like that. I don't know. That's 480 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: what I couldn't find. Yeah, so, um, Rick Cross is 481 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: still at it. He's a he's an exit counselor um 482 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: and he if you listen to him talk, it's really weird. Man. 483 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: While approaching this from the outside, like there was a 484 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: war that was going on that is still being fought 485 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: here there, but the average person wouldn't know about it 486 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: in the media. Between the anti cult movement, which is 487 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: headed up by people like Ted Patrick and Rick Ross 488 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: and the Cult Awareness Network the old version of it, 489 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: and the I guess cult movement, which has as disparate 490 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: members as the Church of Scientology, the the Catholic League 491 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: First Amendment people like the a c l U on 492 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: another side. So there's this weird like this battle that 493 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: went on in Scientology ultimately one just because they bled 494 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: the anti cult movement out in the courts. But like 495 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: I said, Rick Cross is still at it. What he's 496 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: doing now is exit counseling. And if before de programming 497 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: was coercive brainwashing, then UM exit counseling is the opposite 498 00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: of that. It's basically like a drug intervention, but as 499 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: far as cults are concerned. Yeah, the idea is that 500 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: you get the whole family involved, You get the person 501 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: you're trying to UH counsel I guess involved, and they 502 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: all agree to meet and they talk to them about 503 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: what they were doing, and they explained to them about 504 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,959 Speaker 1: the harmful practices of that cult or not cult, depending 505 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: on what it is and UM essentially involved. It's a 506 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: it's a really intensive therapy group therapy with your family, 507 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: but again not coerced, supposedly voluntary and the proper way 508 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: to go about it. It's still expensive though, right, But 509 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: like a normal intervention or like a drug related intervention, 510 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: like it'll probably be a surprise to the UM the 511 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: cult member UM, but in a in a exit counseling 512 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: seminar session or whatever, that that person has to agree 513 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: to stick around and listen, like they can leave at 514 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: any point in time. There's no more kidnapping and duct taping. 515 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: So that's the state of affairs now. And it's really 516 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: weird again because this is the remnants of this this 517 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: info war that went on between the anti cult movement 518 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: and the cult movement or the New Religious Movement movement, 519 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: and um, it's really kind of the whole thing is 520 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: muddy morally speaking, because there are people walking around, including 521 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: ones that were abducted and beaten up or mistreated or 522 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: abused or tortured by Cult Awareness Network or other d programmers, 523 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,479 Speaker 1: who say, if it weren't for those guys, I'd probably 524 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: still being a cult right now. And I'm really grateful 525 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: to my parents for showing out the money to have 526 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: these guys kidnap me because I was really I was 527 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,479 Speaker 1: lost in life and very vulnerable at the time, and 528 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: this really helped get me back on track. Well yeah, 529 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: and cults can be destructive and in uh, destroy peoples 530 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: lives and kill people. Um, but what you can't do 531 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: is just I think the problem can when everything was 532 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: lumped together in one big under, one big umbrella called 533 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: cult Exactly. That's exactly right, because who was Ted Patrick 534 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: or anybody else the great decider of what made acceptable 535 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: religious beliefs and non acceptable religious beliefs? Like where was 536 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: that dividing line? And who gave him the right to 537 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: do it? Man, could you imagine if this was going 538 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: on today with the way things are. Well, it kept 539 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: going until was when the judgment came down to that 540 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: bankrupted Cult Awareness Network. Yeah, I mean, with the way 541 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: things are, I could see I could see Wacko's left 542 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: and right hiring people to abduct their children and set 543 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: them straight. Yeah. You know, well, supposedly they made out 544 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: pretty well in the Satanic Panic of the eighties too. 545 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: That that documentary D program is largely about the director's stepbrother, 546 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: who was deprogrammed by Ted Patrick because their parents thought 547 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: that he was a Satanist or whatever. Because he listened 548 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: to me, we should do one on the p MRC 549 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: and backmasking that whole We'll just call it like eighties 550 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,800 Speaker 1: Satanic panic or something. Let's do it. It would be 551 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: a good one. Uh. There's a book. Ted Patrick got 552 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: a book called let Our Children Go. There's an exclamation 553 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,439 Speaker 1: point in the title. That's right, because you better, uh, 554 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six, and here was one quote, uh 555 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: something he bragged a lot about some of these things. 556 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: He said, Uh, he's so him out West, one of 557 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: the people he d programmed. He said. West had taken 558 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: up a position facing the car with his hands on 559 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: the roof and his legs spread eagle. There was no 560 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 1: way to let him inside while he was braced like that. 561 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: I had to make a quick decision. I reached down 562 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: between West's legs, grabbed him by the crotch and squeezed hard. 563 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: He let out a howl and doubled up, grabbing for 564 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 1: his groin with both hands. Then I hit, shoving him 565 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: headfirst into the back seat of the car and piling 566 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: in on top of him. And then the Jason Scott 567 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: I think was you know duct tape put face down 568 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: in a van and like this three pound guys sat 569 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,399 Speaker 1: on him and that can kill you. Yes, I can 570 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: pretty cookie stuff, man. Yeah, let's uh how to combat 571 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: brainwashing by brainwashing? I love pretty looking back in America's 572 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: recent path to see how crazy it's been from time 573 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,280 Speaker 1: to time. Every once in a a while it just goes nuts. 574 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 1: We just go crazy. Yeah. Um, let's see you got 575 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: anything else? I got nothing else. If you want to 576 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: know more about deep programming, you can type those words 577 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: in the search bar how stuff works dot com. And 578 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: since I said search bar, it's time for listener mail. 579 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: Hey guys, just finished listening to your Hot Air Balloons podcast. 580 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 1: I'm calling this Hot Air Balloon email. I jumped the 581 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: gun having worked for a hot air balloon company for 582 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: two years in Napa Valley, where I grew up. I 583 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,399 Speaker 1: worked on the ground crew, by the chase crew, as 584 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: we called it. The company I worked for a Napa 585 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 1: Valley balloons as balloons that can fit two people all 586 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: the way up to twenty people. The envelope, although it 587 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: looks like, can weigh an excess of six hundred pounds, 588 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: and the basket is easily twice that, if not more. 589 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: And he wrote a lot about the getting all the 590 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 1: hot air out and what an arduous process that was. 591 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: And then he has another good little story here. One 592 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: day after we launched the balloons from just north of Napa, 593 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: the wind picked up and one of the pilots couldn't 594 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: find a safe place to land. Uh. I'm gonna call 595 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,359 Speaker 1: this Josh's worst nightmare of fortune. The balloon kept going 596 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: south and what was supposed to be in our flight 597 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: was getting close to two hours. The balloon got so 598 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: far south that it was approaching the San Francisco Bay, 599 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,280 Speaker 1: and if it got over the bay, the balloon wouldn't 600 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 1: have enough fuel to make it to land again. So 601 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: the pilot made an emergency landing in a wheat field 602 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: that was the last land before the bay. He tried 603 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 1: not to land somewhere without permission, but in this case 604 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: it was an emergency. The pilot left with the customers, 605 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: so we had to contact the owner of the land 606 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: and had to be let onto the property get our balloon. Understandably, 607 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 1: the owner was angry, but we gave him a bottle 608 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,359 Speaker 1: of champagne as you said, they still do that, uh, 609 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: and offered to pay for the damages to US crops. 610 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: While most flights had now wishes whatsoever, this one sticks 611 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,879 Speaker 1: out of my mind because it was a particularly exciting day. 612 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: Nice That is Ryan from Washington, d C. The Napa Valley. 613 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: I like the the part about champagne, sure. I like 614 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,399 Speaker 1: the part where the pilot left with the customers really 615 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: quickly after you landed, right. Who is that Ryan? Thanks Ryan, 616 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: that was a good story. Again. I like the champagne part. 617 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: The monk. If you want to get in touch with 618 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: us and tell us all of your Champagne wishes and 619 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: Kavr dreams. You can tweet to us at s y 620 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,919 Speaker 1: s K podcast. You can join us on Facebook dot 621 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: com slash Stuff you Should Know. You can send us 622 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: an email to stuff podcast at how stuff Works dot 623 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: com and has always joined us at our home on 624 00:37:51,120 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: the web, Stuff you Should Know dot Calm. Stuff you 625 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. 626 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart 627 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 628 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: favorite shows.