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Speaker 1: Okay, So we have a woman who disappeared on September

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Speaker 1: two one, we have nine eleven, we have a frantic search.

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Speaker 1: Then what what do we know? In many ways, it's

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Speaker 1: easier to highlight what we don't know. Was snayha alone

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Speaker 1: when she was last seen alive in century twenty one

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Speaker 1: the department store? Or was she with another woman? Why

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Speaker 1: wasn't snak caught on camera anywhere other than the women's

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Speaker 1: coat area, especially the shoe area where she made her

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Speaker 1: final purchase. Where did Snah go after century? Did she

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Speaker 1: really tell Sonya Mora, the shoe saleswoman, that she was

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Speaker 1: going to Victoria's Secret and Jones, New York. Did Snah

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Speaker 1: speak with either or both of her brothers the day

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Speaker 1: she disappeared, If so, what did she say? Did ron

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Speaker 1: Liebermann's husband sleep dial his cell phone from his landline

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Speaker 1: at four oh five m on nine eleven? Does that

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Speaker 1: explain the otherwise unexplainable call made from inside the apartment

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Speaker 1: It is the woman who exited snay Has building at

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Speaker 1: three am on nine eleven. Actually, snay Haa did say

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Speaker 1: attend a party on September ten at a hotel next

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Speaker 1: to the Twin towers. Did she go shopping on nine

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Speaker 1: eleven in the mall underneath the day she visit Windows

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Speaker 1: on the World on top of the North Tower. Was

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Speaker 1: she just walking home when the attacks began, or none

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Speaker 1: of the above? We don't know. Most of all, where

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Speaker 1: did snay Has stay the night of the tenth? And

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Speaker 1: as if this wasn't enough, let me throw a few

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Speaker 1: new questions at you. First, how did snay House family

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Speaker 1: know that she dropped off dry cleaning one after she

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Speaker 1: left her apartment but before she got to Century One?

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Speaker 1: Maybe credit card records, But wouldn't she have paid when

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Speaker 1: she picked up her clothes, not when she dropped them off.

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Speaker 1: So did her family interview someone at the dry cleaners?

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Speaker 1: And if so, what did that person say about snay

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Speaker 1: Has state of mind? What's she with someone? Then? What

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Speaker 1: she caught on security footage there we don't know. Finally,

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Speaker 1: in the Century one footage, say, does not appear to

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Speaker 1: be wet, nor is she carrying an umbrella, even though

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Speaker 1: it was storming outside. So did she walk to Century

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Speaker 1: maybe during a pause in the rain. Did someone drop

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Speaker 1: her off or did she take a cab? We don't

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Speaker 1: know what happened to snay Ha And if the explanation

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Speaker 1: really is so simple, why are there so many discrepancies

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Speaker 1: and unanswered questions. I don't know, we don't know. No

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Speaker 1: one knows, not the NYPD, not private investigators, not us,

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Speaker 1: not yet for my Heart media, this is missing. On

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Speaker 1: nine eleven, the story were you of one woman who

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Speaker 1: vanished on the eve of history and my quest to

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Speaker 1: find her? I'm your host, John Wallzac. On October one,

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Speaker 1: NYPD Detective Richard Stark ends his investigation into snay house disappearance.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing left to do, he says. Snayhouse family vehemently

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Speaker 1: disagrees their private investigator can go on continues to hunt

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Speaker 1: for clues. He finds few, if any. By coincidence, the

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Speaker 1: same day Detective Stark ends his investigation, snay Haa was

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Speaker 1: supposed to be in court facing charges of harassment, assault,

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Speaker 1: and falsely reporting an incident, but because no one knows

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Speaker 1: where she is, her case is adjourned again. Two thousand

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Speaker 1: one ends. Then on January two thousand two, a judge

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Speaker 1: issues a bench warrant for snay Has arrest. She's not

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Speaker 1: showing up to court. She's a wall and since there's

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Speaker 1: no official declaration of death, he has no choice, he says.

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Speaker 1: One month later, the Associated Press runs a short article

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Speaker 1: about snay haa quote. Police theorized she orchestrated her own

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Speaker 1: disappearance to escape personal problems, but her family says this

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Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. Snay was accomplished, graceful, and stable, they say.

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Speaker 1: Ron says, quote, we had a great marriage. We were

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Speaker 1: talking about having babies. D NYPD, however, says that snay

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Speaker 1: House disappearance is unrelated to the World Trade Center. By

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Speaker 1: August two thousand two, the initial list of thousands of

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Speaker 1: people missing on nine eleven has been whittled down to

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Speaker 1: just nine. Some victims were reported missing multiple times by

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Speaker 1: different people, a genuine mistake. Then there were cases of fraud,

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Speaker 1: but also, amazingly, at least seven people initially thought to

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Speaker 1: have died on nine eleven are found alive. According to

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Speaker 1: The New York Post, one is a homeless man named

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Speaker 1: Albert Vaughan, last scene in the subway station beneath the

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Speaker 1: World Trade Center in June two thousand two, nine months

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Speaker 1: after the attacks. His family finds him in a psychiatric hospital. Another,

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Speaker 1: George Simms, was thought to have been working as an

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Speaker 1: informal street vendor, near the Trade Center on nine eleven.

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Speaker 1: Like Vaughan Simms, it's found in a psychiatric hospital, diagnosed

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Speaker 1: with amnesia and schizophrenia. On September eleven, two thousand two,

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Speaker 1: the one year anniversary of the attacks, snay House family

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Speaker 1: holds a small memorial service in Poughkeepsie, New York. Publicly,

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Speaker 1: they've given up any hope that Snah will be found alive. Privately,

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Speaker 1: though some of them still do not believe that she's dead. Nonetheless,

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Speaker 1: they bury and earned with unidentified ashes collected from ground zero.

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Speaker 1: One month later, snay House husband Ron files a claim

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Speaker 1: with the nine eleven Victims Compensation Fund worth three to

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Speaker 1: four million dollars, but because has not an official nine

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Speaker 1: eleven victim, because there's no death certificate, it's denied. By

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Speaker 1: this point, snay House family is starting to get ticked off. Publicly,

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Speaker 1: they've settled on the hero narrative that Snah ran into

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Speaker 1: the burning towers to help people and died as a result.

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Speaker 1: They say they're not motivated by money. Instead, they're motivated

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Speaker 1: by legacy. They want recognition for snay house bravery or

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Speaker 1: and there's no way to say this nicely, her theoretical

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Speaker 1: bravery Still, the City of New York declines to issue

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Speaker 1: a death certificate stating that Snayhu died on nine eleven

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Speaker 1: at the World Trade Center. On September two thousand three,

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Speaker 1: Ron files a petition seeking a judicial declaration of death.

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Speaker 1: Two months later, a lawyer named Ellen Winner is appointed

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Speaker 1: as snay House Guardian ad litem. Basically, it's Ellen's role

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Speaker 1: to fight for Snah on her behalf, to serve as

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Speaker 1: her advocate and absentia. In turn, snay House family hires

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Speaker 1: a lawyer named Mark Bogutin by Ron Lieberman, and he

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Speaker 1: was this fiving spouse bringing this proceeding in servius court.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I did. I filed the petition in

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Speaker 1: Sagret's court to for the judicial declaration of death. We

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Speaker 1: interviewed Bogutin at his Manhattan office, about twelve hundred feet

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Speaker 1: northeast of the World Trade Center on January five, the

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Speaker 1: day before the Capitol riot in d C. We sat

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Speaker 1: in a conference room, faces covered because well COVID, it

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Speaker 1: was gray and drizzly. Looking out the window, we could

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Speaker 1: see Bogutin's old office, the one he had on nine eleven,

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Speaker 1: only two blocks away near City Hall. That's where he

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Speaker 1: was headed on nine eleven when the attacks began. It

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Speaker 1: just got out of the subway Chambers and West Broadway

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Speaker 1: and started to walk and I hear above me a

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Speaker 1: plane or see a plane. Look at the plane and

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Speaker 1: it's going right into the trade center. Boom floats, and

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Speaker 1: I said, my god, it's it's awful. And all those

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Speaker 1: people not awful. Then also people other stuff, and so

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Speaker 1: I was a block away now I just moved the

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Speaker 1: blockler still looking, and then I saw this explosion in

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Speaker 1: the tower where I saw this big explosion of the

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Speaker 1: flames coming out, and I thought it was maybe a bomb,

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Speaker 1: or maybe it was something like eight attack mortar attacks.

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Speaker 1: I didn't actually see the second plane, but you know,

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Speaker 1: once I saw that, everybody once any everybody, so that

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Speaker 1: everybody knew then it was terrorism. Obviously. Bocatin made his

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Speaker 1: way into his office, which had a partial view of

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Speaker 1: the Trade Center. All of a sudden, everyone's running, people

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Speaker 1: would standing watching was running, running, running and knowing something happened.

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Speaker 1: I happened, and then I heard we heard on the

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Speaker 1: TV that the first one fell down, and so then

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Speaker 1: I looked at my window second and was still there,

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Speaker 1: and I left then the whole area was closed like

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Speaker 1: a week or so. But I remember that, remember calling

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Speaker 1: the court and they say, oh, yeah, we know, we

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Speaker 1: know what happened. No, there's no court today, there's no

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Speaker 1: court today. A few years later, Polcatin got a call

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Speaker 1: from his friend Mark Freiberg, a fellow attorney. Mark Freiberg

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Speaker 1: had represented Snea and Philip before she disappeared. So basically,

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Speaker 1: Mark Friberry came to me and talking about the case.

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Speaker 1: He said that Nia and Philip had lived across the

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Speaker 1: street from the Trade Center, and he first told me,

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Speaker 1: you know, she went missing on Stember eleven. They said,

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Speaker 1: actually she went missing on September tenth, or was last

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Speaker 1: sing on the tenth, which made the case obviously a

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Speaker 1: little bit different. And m Mark Fribery had representing and Philip.

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Speaker 1: She had a very small criminal case pending in the

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Speaker 1: New York City Criminal Court and he represented her and

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Speaker 1: that and that was pending on nine eleven, and then

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Speaker 1: you know, she didn't she disappeared at nine eleven. And

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Speaker 1: so what happened was initially, when whatever agency was putting

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Speaker 1: together the list of the dead people died at the

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Speaker 1: Trade Center, Nia and Philip's name was originally included on

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Speaker 1: the list prepared by the government of those who died,

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Speaker 1: not missing, but died at the trade Center. At the

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Speaker 1: very beginning, snay How was listed as the nine eleven victim.

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Speaker 1: After nine eleven, some public agency brought proceeding on behalf

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Speaker 1: of everybody on the list, the two thousand, seven hundred

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Speaker 1: people who are on the list and there are no

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Speaker 1: body recovered. There was a proceeding brought in servius who

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Speaker 1: are to have them judicially they are dead, and death

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Speaker 1: certificates ordered issued by the services for those twenty seven people.

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Speaker 1: And again with the Matthew RECEDINGSNA was included in that

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Speaker 1: as a results of that proceeding in the fact show

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Speaker 1: that everybody would be entitled to decertificate that they died

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Speaker 1: at the trade center except for two people, and one

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Speaker 1: of the two was and Philip, And there were two

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Speaker 1: cases of the surrogates. Representatives said it's not it's not fraud,

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Speaker 1: but we just need more evidence and we need more

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Speaker 1: information before we feel comfortable issuing the death certificate. And

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Speaker 1: again THEA was one of these two cases, and the

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Speaker 1: other one Juan la Fuente. Another strange ace, strange enough

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Speaker 1: that it's worth going into a bit of detail. Wan

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Speaker 1: the front A was last seen alive around six am

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Speaker 1: on nine eleven, on his way to a train station

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Speaker 1: in Pokeepsie, New York, where he lived with his wife, Colette.

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Speaker 1: At the time, Collette was the mayor of Poughkeepsie. Juan

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Speaker 1: worked for City Bank at one eleven Wall Street in Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: On nine eleven, he made it to Grand Central station,

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Speaker 1: where he swiped his metro card at eight oh six am. Then,

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Speaker 1: presumably he caught a subway to Wall Street and Broadway,

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Speaker 1: eleven hundred feet southeast of the World Trade Center. Per

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Speaker 1: court records, that trip typically took about sixteen minutes. Wan

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Speaker 1: likely exited onto the street around eight thirty am, only

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Speaker 1: sixteen minutes before American Airlines flight eleven the North Tower. However,

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Speaker 1: like snay Ha, Land did not work at the Trade Center,

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Speaker 1: he had no real reason to be there. In fact,

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Speaker 1: Bickly after exiting onto the street, he would have walked

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Speaker 1: the other way to his Wall Street office. So in

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Speaker 1: order to say that he died on nine eleven at

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Speaker 1: the Trade Center during the attacks, his family, like snay

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Speaker 1: House family, had to answer why he was there in

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Speaker 1: the first place. At first, they two chose the hero narrative.

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Speaker 1: They said that One probably saw the attacks and ran

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Speaker 1: into the towers to help people. As evidence, they cited

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Speaker 1: the fact that he was a volunteer fire marshal. Later, though,

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Speaker 1: a witness came forward and claimed that two or three

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Speaker 1: days before nine eleven, he overheard One say that he

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Speaker 1: planned to attend a meeting at the Trade Center. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but which meeting best guests the Risk Waters Financial Technology

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Speaker 1: Congress at Windows on the World on top of the

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Speaker 1: North Tower on the morning of nine eleven. However, as

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Speaker 1: with Snah, there's no proof that One was at the

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Speaker 1: Trade Center, no evidence, just speculation as to the critical

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Speaker 1: question of why he would have attended the conference why

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Speaker 1: he died. His family ditched the hero narrative and instead

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Speaker 1: cited frugality. They posited that he wanted free food. Wan

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Speaker 1: was so frugal, according to The New York Times that

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Speaker 1: quote he scavenged his morning paper from a dumpster. His

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Speaker 1: frugality is why he died. According to his family, His

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Speaker 1: wife Colette said, quote, it was a free breakfast. Now

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Speaker 1: with the Flente, The cops did consider non nine eleven

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Speaker 1: explanations for one suicide. One was undergoing psychiatric treatment for depression. Coincidentally,

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Speaker 1: on nine eleven, he had an eight pm appointment with

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Speaker 1: a psychiatrist, which obviously he missed. They also considered whether

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Speaker 1: or not he ran off. Wan and Colette had an

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Speaker 1: interesting marriage. According to The Times, once a month, Wants

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Speaker 1: stayed away from home overnight in Manhattan in a quote

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Speaker 1: shabby genteel tourist hotel. As to what one did at

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Speaker 1: the hotel, a manager said, quote, we don't ask those questions.

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Speaker 1: In addition, Juan's daughter, who said she had a good

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Speaker 1: relationship with him, could not remember whether or not he

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Speaker 1: called her on her birthday September, so, exercising caution, Pickepsie

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Speaker 1: Detective Walter Horton considered everything. He told The Times quote,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to find out six months from now

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Speaker 1: that he's living in the Bahamas. But in the end

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Speaker 1: a judge ruled that nine eleven was the answer, writing quote.

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Speaker 1: The absentee was described in polite terms by his wife

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Speaker 1: and Detective Horton as a frugal person. He would often

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Speaker 1: take advantage of trade shows offering free refreshments, such as

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Speaker 1: the one sponsored by Risk Waters. The morning of September eleven,

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Speaker 1: it is tragically ironic that the absentees zest for thriftiness

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Speaker 1: was the underlying factor which may have contributed in large

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Speaker 1: part to his unexpected demise. Under the totality of the circumstances,

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Speaker 1: there is no reasonable explanation for his disappearance other than

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Speaker 1: death by an act of terrorism. Therefore, the court determines

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Speaker 1: that Juan M. La Fuente died September eleven, two thousand one,

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Speaker 1: and with that family, unlike snay Haas family, got a

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Speaker 1: death certificate quickly. Mark Bogatin, the attorney hired by snay

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Speaker 1: House husband Ron, later referenced the Plante case multiple times

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Speaker 1: in court, arguing that in snay House case, like the

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Speaker 1: Puante case, nine eleven was the obvious answer, just common sense.

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Speaker 1: I mean, even without court being involved. It's submasing to me.

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Speaker 1: And I was talking to somebody in the bar and

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Speaker 1: they gave me the effects. It's just obviously that what else,

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Speaker 1: what else could have happened? She died at the trade center.

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Speaker 1: Why would you even consider anything else. It's like I said,

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Speaker 1: you can't stay present. There's no alien induction here. But

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty confident, you know, as a rationally human being,

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Speaker 1: it's highly unlikely there was an alien induction, and it's

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Speaker 1: more than highly unlikely there was some voul play. So

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Speaker 1: other than I was the foul play involved in what

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Speaker 1: al Qaida did. This is not what snay House family

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Speaker 1: originally thought in the beginning. They wanted the NYPD to

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Speaker 1: investigate everything, suicide, murder, everything, But by the time Mark

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Speaker 1: Bogatin enters the picture late two thousand three early two

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Speaker 1: thousand four, both snay House family and the NYPD, despite

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Speaker 1: previous clashes, agreed that sna Ha did die on nine

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Speaker 1: eleven at the Trade Center. Now though someone else is

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Speaker 1: on the case, Ellen Winner, the Guardian ad vit um,

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Speaker 1: the attorney appointed to represent sna in absentia, and basically

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Speaker 1: she says, not so fast. She was appointed by the

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Speaker 1: court to be represents. Nia's interesting, but she is. She

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Speaker 1: investated the facts like I investated the facts, and basically

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Speaker 1: her reports said, well, there's evidence that Nia led a

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Speaker 1: dangerous lifestyle, that she went to bars and lesbian bars

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Speaker 1: or bisexual bars, or I forget how they characterize it.

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Speaker 1: I think they're called bars fremented by women, I think

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Speaker 1: is what one of the reports referred to them as.

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Speaker 1: And then she may have been unfaithful and she may

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Speaker 1: have you know whatever. So she pointed to this dangerous

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Speaker 1: in her mind, dangerous life stuff as an alternative explanation

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Speaker 1: for Snia's disappearance. So basically the theory that oh, very

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Speaker 1: possible she ran went into the bar, had the unfortunate

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Speaker 1: circumstance of striking up an acquaintance with a person who

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Speaker 1: turned out to be a crazed killer, and that's how

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Speaker 1: she met her demise, demise to use the stupid term

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Speaker 1: um demise, and that's the exclamations. So since she made

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Speaker 1: since she had this dangerous lifestyle, went to bars and

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Speaker 1: may have been lesbian, Well she didn't say she died

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Speaker 1: because she was lesbian, but she did say because she

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Speaker 1: frequented bars uh and may have been unfaithful and struck

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Speaker 1: up acquaintances with strangers at these bars, that somehow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she had a dangerous lifestyle, so we can't say with

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Speaker 1: any confidence, can't rule out foul play. And that was

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Speaker 1: her take on it, and that actually was the conclusion

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Speaker 1: reached by the surrogate, who was the judge, and the

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Speaker 1: final decision on the surrogate was because that there was

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Speaker 1: this dangerous lifestyle and she went to these bars and

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Speaker 1: stuff and all these you know, these things in her background.

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Speaker 1: Can't say that you can't rule out foul play and

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Speaker 1: she that she had my mind, that's just that's crazy

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Speaker 1: because for the reason I've already said, just crazy and

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Speaker 1: my p D thought it was crazy. Uh, prior to

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Speaker 1: the tactles it was crazy. And if you could go

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Speaker 1: and say she she was killed by a crazy killer,

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Speaker 1: you know, there has to be some evidence of that something.

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Speaker 1: So the crriot court rules, yes, she's dead, she's she's gone.

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Speaker 1: I think they set her day to death as three

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Speaker 1: years after her disappearance. Maybe she didn't die at the

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Speaker 1: Trade Center. And that was very upsetting experience. Well when

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Speaker 1: originally when her initially when her name was removed from

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Speaker 1: the list of people died at Trade Center, that was

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Speaker 1: very very upsetting to the family. By the family, I

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Speaker 1: mean her mother and father, I mean I mean Ron

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Speaker 1: was not happy either. I uh met the parents later

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Speaker 1: in the representation and the first time I met them,

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Speaker 1: I said the mother and she said to me Steia

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Speaker 1: was an American hero and meaning that she's one of

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Speaker 1: the people died at the Trade Center. And it was

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Speaker 1: the first time that it really really appreciated obviously from

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Speaker 1: the beginning, understood what the death of what's child would

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Speaker 1: mean does mean. Obviously appreciated that, but I didn't appreciate

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Speaker 1: how the fact that she had died at the Trade

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Speaker 1: Center and was included in this group of Americans who

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Speaker 1: had basically been killed because they were Americans. That fact

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Speaker 1: that circumstance gave her some solace and sort of eased

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Speaker 1: the pain. And so her death was not with that

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Speaker 1: certificance was part of a larger national tragedy. But she

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Speaker 1: said she was an American heroine. Also, I guess she

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Speaker 1: also believed that she would have been going to help

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Speaker 1: as a physician Sona's death, that that her death was

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Speaker 1: part of this larger national tragedy and this larger historical

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Speaker 1: significance even apart from her being as a physician going

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Speaker 1: to help people. Uh, it gave them some comfort and

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Speaker 1: some solace, and that was all taken away from them

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Speaker 1: when they ruled out, she's not she's not, she's not

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Speaker 1: on the list. And then obviously were very disappointed when

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Speaker 1: the trial judge ruled, oh, she died but not at

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Speaker 1: the Trade Center. And at that point we took an appeal.

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Speaker 1: We went to the Pelt Court. What did you think

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Speaker 1: when you got the decision? Wasn't surprised, I gas, I

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Speaker 1: thought it was ridiculous. It's just ridiculous. You know, as

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Speaker 1: an attorney, you know you win cases, your loose cases,

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Speaker 1: and and actually the first bless they had, the only

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Speaker 1: bless they had. You said, of the cases that you

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Speaker 1: guys an attorney or trial attorney, lawyering doesn't make a difference.

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Speaker 1: You could have Perry Mason, Mason you're gonna have, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have Johnny Conquer, definitely Bailey, or you're gonna have

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Speaker 1: the guy who got out law school you know yesterday,

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Speaker 1: not either. The cases doesn't matter. The cases are based

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Speaker 1: on the facts. The facts beek for themselves. The case

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Speaker 1: decides itself, you know, and then there's a temperate five temper.

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Speaker 1: Any cases where lawyering does make a difference, where could

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Speaker 1: go either way. And this was one of those cases,

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Speaker 1: a complicated case, a legacy case. We had one or

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Speaker 1: two conferences with the courts clerk before we actuid the hearing.

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Speaker 1: They were very, very doubtful of our case. I just

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Speaker 1: I was just surprised, I thought, to me, as a

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Speaker 1: not even being an attorney, just as a common as

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Speaker 1: a person walking around with I guess as a sentient.

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Speaker 1: That's the right pronunciation, as senting a human being. What

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Speaker 1: else you think one of the conclusion could you reach?

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Speaker 1: I guess the only the big question which everybody had

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Speaker 1: and that I would ask you is obviously, she says,

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Speaker 1: somewhere the night of the tenth. So it would have

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Speaker 1: been either with somebody she knew or with a stranger.

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Speaker 1: She would stay somewhere Ranticly, she could have walked up

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Speaker 1: the street all night. Possible, It's one of those. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she could have been with a stranger, could have been

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Speaker 1: somebody she knew. She could have been walking literally walking

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Speaker 1: up I mean I remember was in college ones. Actually

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Speaker 1: I actually did that. I actually left the dorm at

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Speaker 1: eight at night. I didn't come back to like five

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Speaker 1: in the morning. She could have been doing that, walking around.

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Speaker 1: But more probably she would have been with somebody. If

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Speaker 1: if she was with somebody she knew, though, why would

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Speaker 1: they not come forward? Obviously she wasn't with somebody she knew. Well,

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Speaker 1: she wasn't with somebody that their family knew about. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they know that she was her last um, last trace

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Speaker 1: of her was a purchase he made a century one

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Speaker 1: because it's a credit card or whatever store receipt. I

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Speaker 1: think was like eight o'clock to night, eating something like that.

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Speaker 1: That's the last actual trace, so they know she was

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Speaker 1: attentual twenty one sometime that evening of the tenth. Uh

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Speaker 1: where she was in between there and the morning of

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Speaker 1: the eleven that, you're right, that's not it's not precisely

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Speaker 1: known or determined. Okay, just getting using logic. Could she

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Speaker 1: have been with somebody she knew, Uh, that's possible. But

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Speaker 1: like you just said, while it was somebody she do,

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Speaker 1: why did that person go forward? Okay? Could she have

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Speaker 1: been with somebody she didn't know, that's possible. Could she

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Speaker 1: have been with nobody like I, like I referred to

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Speaker 1: my experience one night in college walking that's possible. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, you know who knows? It's possible. She may

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Speaker 1: have been walking around the street with a heavy shopping

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Speaker 1: though I don't know. I forget how I mean, I

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Speaker 1: forget the size or weight of the purchase. Okay, you're right.

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Speaker 1: Maybe she wasn't walking the streets a bit. She probably

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Speaker 1: spending on the you're right, h so many questions, so

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Speaker 1: many unanswered questions. So much we don't know. But that's okay,

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Speaker 1: because sometimes the best clues are in the questions, in

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Speaker 1: what people hide, what they lie about, in what we

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Speaker 1: don't know. Next time, on Missing on nine eleven, I

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Speaker 1: just remember her confiding in me about not being happy

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Speaker 1: in her current position, feeling pressured, whether there was pressure

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Speaker 1: or not from her family, but feeling pressured to become

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Speaker 1: a doctor, and then realizing she didn't really want to become.

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Speaker 1: One homework this week one Ellen Winner the Guardian adl

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Speaker 1: item decline interview requests. Ellen, if you're listening, I'd still

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Speaker 1: love to speak with you. Two. Do you have any

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Speaker 1: new information on the La Fente case? You can reach

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Speaker 1: us by phone at one eight three three new Tips

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Speaker 1: that's one eight three three six three nine eight four

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Speaker 1: seven seven again one eight three three six three nine

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00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: eight four seven seven, or you can reach us via

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Speaker 1: email at tips at iHeart media dot com. That's tips,

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Speaker 1: T I p s at iHeart media dot com. Ben

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Speaker 1: Bowen is our executive producer. Paul Decan is our supervising producer.

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Speaker 1: Chris Brown is our assistant producer. Seth Nicholas Johnson is

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Speaker 1: our producer. Sam t Garden is our research assistant and

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Speaker 1: I'm your host and executive producer, John Wallzac. Cover art

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00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 1: by Pam Peacock Bluff One Day Judge voiced by Mike

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Speaker 1: Smith of New Orleans. Special thanks to Tamika Campbell at

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Speaker 1: iHeart and to Christoph Zapary in New Orleans. Also thank

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Speaker 1: you to Mark Bogutin and a soop rock original theme

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Speaker 1: music by ASoP Rock. Check out a soops website at

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00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: ASoP rock dot com. You can find me on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at at John Wallzack j O, n W A l

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Speaker 1: c z a K. If you like this show, check

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Speaker 1: out our first season, Missing in Alaska, about the nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy two disappearance of two congressmen Missing on nine eleven,

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Speaker 1: is a co production of I Heeart Media and Greenford

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Speaker 1: Media