WEBVTT - Uncovering Epstein: Island, Autopsy, and the Missing Minute

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<v Speaker 1>This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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<v Speaker 1>and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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<v Speaker 1>its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. Guess what, We're

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<v Speaker 2>talking True crime all the time. It's Sunday, July thirteenth,

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<v Speaker 2>and we've got a stack knight of headlines. So listen.

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<v Speaker 2>This Epstein thing has blown up across the world and

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<v Speaker 2>we want some answers. What could possibly be the reason

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<v Speaker 2>for that tape to be actually modified? So we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to get into that in a very big way. What

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<v Speaker 2>does it mean? We do have some insight sourcing just

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<v Speaker 2>into the Epstein world. Lisa Bryant, who is the executive

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<v Speaker 2>producer and director of the Netflix documentary Filthy Rich, which

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<v Speaker 2>really focuses on the Epstein days and the victims, etc.

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<v Speaker 2>As well as Gilaine Maxwell, She's going to be joining

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<v Speaker 2>us to kind of dig in and we'll hear her

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<v Speaker 2>opinions about what all of this could or couldn't mean. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert in host of Bodybags, is

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<v Speaker 2>also going to be joining us to break down suicide

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<v Speaker 2>or did Jeffrey Epstein get killed or was he killed intentionally?

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<v Speaker 2>Always the age old question. And also there have been

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<v Speaker 2>some new developments in the Menandez case, and later in

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<v Speaker 2>the show we're also going to be talking a bit

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<v Speaker 2>more about the Brian Coberger new developments and the Idaho

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<v Speaker 2>student murders. One of the victims mothers is speaking out

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<v Speaker 2>for the very first time, so we'll have more on

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<v Speaker 2>that as well. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head of

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<v Speaker 2>KAT Studios, where we make true crime podcasts and documentaries,

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<v Speaker 2>and I get to do that with Courtney Armstrong, host

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<v Speaker 2>and also the voice of many of our podcasts, as

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<v Speaker 2>well as Vadi move In. You'll recognize her of course

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<v Speaker 2>from Don't f with Katz, the Emmy Award winning documentary

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<v Speaker 2>and listen. We want to hear from you, so please

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<v Speaker 2>jump in join the conversation. There's been a ton in

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<v Speaker 2>the news, so if you want to weigh in, call

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<v Speaker 2>us at eight eight eight three one Crime, or you

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<v Speaker 2>could hit us up on our socials at True Crime

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<v Speaker 2>Tonight's show on TikTok and Instagram, or at True Crime

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<v Speaker 2>Tonight on Facebook. So and also one last thing, I

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<v Speaker 2>just have to say it on behalf of all three

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<v Speaker 2>of us. It's been so refreshing to a get your

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<v Speaker 2>emails and your cases that you really want us to

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<v Speaker 2>focus on. We're getting them, We're hearing it. We're going

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<v Speaker 2>to be digging into this new development in this possible

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<v Speaker 2>new serial killer. So thank you. Just keep those coming.

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<v Speaker 2>We will be doing every single one. So please thank

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<v Speaker 2>you for being our true crime A little true crime crew.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess we should call it our family. So keep

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<v Speaker 2>those ideas coming. But first body, I know you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to hit us up with some headlines. Yeah, where do

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<v Speaker 2>you want to start?

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<v Speaker 3>While there's a big break for the Menanda's brothers, so

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<v Speaker 3>Eric and Lyle Menenda's the brothers at the center of

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<v Speaker 3>like the most infamous murder case in US history. They

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<v Speaker 3>just scored like a super major legal win. As they

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<v Speaker 3>gear up for you know, they have a hearing for parole.

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<v Speaker 3>They've had a lot of little lately, Okay, so they

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<v Speaker 3>were granted re sentencing and they got like, instead of

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<v Speaker 3>life without the possibility of parrol, now they have the

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<v Speaker 3>possibility of parole and they have that hearing in August.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's late August the twenty first, and the

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<v Speaker 3>twenty second Well, a new court order from July eighth

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<v Speaker 3>is putting pressure on the state to explain why key

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<v Speaker 3>evidence was kept out of their trial. And this evidence

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<v Speaker 3>is that letter. Do you remember we had that gentleman

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<v Speaker 3>on that found the letter. What was his name, Robert,

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<v Speaker 3>Robert Robert, Yes, And this letter it was written prior

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<v Speaker 3>to the murders and it explains to his lyle's cousin

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<v Speaker 3>the molestation that they were having. And well, this letter

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<v Speaker 3>was excluded from court. So they filed for habeas corpus relief.

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<v Speaker 3>Now they have until I think they have thirty days

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<v Speaker 3>to respond to this letter of the prosecution, and the

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<v Speaker 3>judge says that they have to explain why the brother's

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<v Speaker 3>habeas relief should not be granted.

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<v Speaker 2>So if the case, yeah, like for this case specifically,

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<v Speaker 2>the Menanda's brothers were you know, convicted for murdering both

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<v Speaker 2>of their parents. This is back in the eighties, very infamous.

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<v Speaker 2>There's been a documentary also, the Ryan Murphy scripted series

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<v Speaker 2>based on them. And look they're now saying, we served

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<v Speaker 2>our time. This was a murder because we were being

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<v Speaker 2>sexually abused and that was not taken into consideration and

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<v Speaker 2>they've been looking to be freed, and now this is

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<v Speaker 2>yet another step closer for them.

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<v Speaker 4>Right their conviction.

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<v Speaker 3>If habeas corpus relief is granted, if the judge says, yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>let's go ahead, and you know, get this going, their

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<v Speaker 3>original verdicts could be overturned, which is wild now. It

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<v Speaker 3>could be overturned partially, it could be overturned fully, a

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<v Speaker 3>new trial could be ordered, and any number of things

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<v Speaker 3>could happen. I'm not saying they're going to get out,

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<v Speaker 3>because you know, they were never convicted now, but it

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<v Speaker 3>does grant them relief and we'll have to see what happens. Wow,

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<v Speaker 3>they have thirty days to they have thirty days to respond,

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<v Speaker 3>so we'll see. We'll keep an eye on it, and

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<v Speaker 3>we're gonna we're gonna deep dive into it tomorrow too,

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<v Speaker 3>so stay tuned for that.

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<v Speaker 2>Great, great, great great, Yeah, we're also going to be

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<v Speaker 2>digging into those Blake Lively and and so there's a

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<v Speaker 2>hearing on Thursday, so we'll get to that later in

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<v Speaker 2>the week as well.

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<v Speaker 3>I saw on an X there's a like a social

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<v Speaker 3>media influencer I follow. She does like brand marketing and whatnot,

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<v Speaker 3>and she's been kind of like tweeting about this and

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<v Speaker 3>she got a subpoena from Google and has Blake Lily's name.

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<v Speaker 4>While she's freaking out, Oh.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like freaking out in a bad way or in

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<v Speaker 2>a bad way, She's like, what what did I do?

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<v Speaker 5>You know?

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<v Speaker 4>She's like, what I do?

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<v Speaker 2>She talked about the Queen. I guess, I guess they

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<v Speaker 2>have a lot of money. And it's it's the PR

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<v Speaker 2>machine is so real, right, I'm so interested. We should

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<v Speaker 2>do like an expose on public relations, would have it

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<v Speaker 2>behind the scenes, Like I genuinely don't know.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't either know that we.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't have it. I don't have it either on PR.

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<v Speaker 2>That's me, I do it. It's terrible. Yes, that's great.

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<v Speaker 2>Court you're you're a smiling over there. What do you

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<v Speaker 2>what do you want to say? New ar IM's strong?

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<v Speaker 6>Well, I was actually just when you said, what the PR?

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<v Speaker 6>You know what's doing in the land of PR. And

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<v Speaker 6>it seems like it's gotten much more nefarious just in

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<v Speaker 6>recent I mean, going back to Johnny Depp and going

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<v Speaker 6>back to slander like PR.

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<v Speaker 4>Remember that movie The Dog, Oh my gosh.

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<v Speaker 2>I certainly do.

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<v Speaker 4>I think it was nineteen ninety eight.

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<v Speaker 3>It's an excellent movie and it's the it's kind of

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<v Speaker 3>like how the PR machine can can be nefarious, right,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean ultimately that's kind of what it boils down to.

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<v Speaker 4>It's a really great movie. If you haven't seen it.

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't seen it.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh you wag the dog, the Crossmit wag the dog.

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<v Speaker 2>You know the saying how did you know the date

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<v Speaker 2>it was released? Top of it?

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<v Speaker 6>Because I could be I could be wrong, but I'm

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<v Speaker 6>pretty sure I was in Australia when it happened and

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<v Speaker 6>I was like, wow, you really liked that movie. But

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<v Speaker 6>what the crux is is there's these politicians and the

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<v Speaker 6>PR and the politicians in some sort of hot water

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<v Speaker 6>I don't recall what, and it's like, well, you want

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<v Speaker 6>attention off of you, let's create a war, and a

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<v Speaker 6>PR machine creates it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's a parody. It's oh, check that out. Is

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<v Speaker 2>it possible?

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<v Speaker 1>Though?

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<v Speaker 2>We're just seeing more of it because of social media,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think because maybe it's always been nefarious in there,

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<v Speaker 2>but we just are kind of getting a little smarter

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<v Speaker 2>to it now.

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<v Speaker 6>I think it's quicker too. Everything used to there used

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<v Speaker 6>to actually be news cycles.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, this is a twenty four hour news cycle now right, like, yes,

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<v Speaker 3>we can't get away from the news if we wanted to.

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<v Speaker 3>That's true, speaking of bad politicians, right, thanks.

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<v Speaker 2>For the news. Yes, we don't want you getting away

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<v Speaker 2>from it either, exactly.

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<v Speaker 6>This is true crime.

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<v Speaker 2>Tonight We're on iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm Courtney Armstrong here as always with my buddy Body

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<v Speaker 6>Movin and Stephanie Leidecker and Lisa Bryant is about to

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<v Speaker 6>join us so we can speak about Jeffrey Ebstein. If

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<v Speaker 6>you have thoughts, and I know you do, we want

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<v Speaker 6>to hear from you, give us a call. We're at

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<v Speaker 6>eighty eight three to one Crime or leave us a talkback.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Lisa, Lisa Bryant. Do we have Lisa Bryant on

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<v Speaker 2>the line before Welcome to the show. I'll give a

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<v Speaker 2>little just sort of backstory on Lisa Bryant. So, Hi, Lisa,

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<v Speaker 2>Lisa Bryant has been We've been developing a project together,

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<v Speaker 2>Lisa Bryant and Kat and I've had the benefit of

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<v Speaker 2>working with you a bit in recent times. But really

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<v Speaker 2>your career kind of is it speaks for itself. As

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Lisa's been in the Joe Berlinger camp of greatness,

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<v Speaker 2>that most infamous momentarian and all the land. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>she did this extraordinary Epstein doc back in the day

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<v Speaker 2>when frankly, it was probably a little dangerous to be

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<v Speaker 2>even making documentaries about Epstein and the victims, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was really extraordinary. So I'm so grateful Lisa that you're

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<v Speaker 2>joining us and can kind of, you know, give us

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<v Speaker 2>a little insight into the behive of all things Epstein

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<v Speaker 2>based on just your experience obviously, so welcome.

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<v Speaker 7>Well, thank you so much. I'm happy to share my

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<v Speaker 7>you know, insights. And when I worked on that and

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<v Speaker 7>still have been following it, it just keeps going on

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<v Speaker 7>and on, and it's it's crazy, you know, that's kind

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<v Speaker 7>of a weird way to put on. But it's a

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<v Speaker 7>nightmare that never ends, really, you know, He's really just

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<v Speaker 7>a nightmare that never ends.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's one of those cases. And I know I've

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<v Speaker 2>like tortured you about talking about it, you know, when

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<v Speaker 2>we've had our calls together completely on separate matters. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't like anyway back to Epstein because I really was

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<v Speaker 2>kind of taken by this case. You know, we'd always

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<v Speaker 2>heard these rumblings and in case you're listening and not

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<v Speaker 2>following it too closely. Jeffrey Epstein was a very wealthy

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<v Speaker 2>American financier and he was later convicted for being a

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<v Speaker 2>sex offender and operating a very vast sex trafficking thing.

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<v Speaker 2>But just to kind of paint a picture, he was

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<v Speaker 2>like a handsome man with like lots of opportunities and

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<v Speaker 2>New York City socialite guy and had a place in

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<v Speaker 2>West Palm Beach. I'm paraphrasing, but this was my interpret

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<v Speaker 2>And then he was like so wealthy and so infamous

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<v Speaker 2>that he had this he bought an island, and on

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<v Speaker 2>this island that only select people, if invited, could attend.

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<v Speaker 2>There was this big, fancy mansion and you know, basically

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<v Speaker 2>all the who's who of the world, whether it's Prince

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew or the Clinton's or you know, very big powerful

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<v Speaker 2>leaders in our world would go and you know, kind

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<v Speaker 2>of hobnob at this infamous island. And in my head,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm imagining like Gallas and you know, dining by the pool,

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of thing. And you know, little by little

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<v Speaker 2>we started hearing rumors that, I don't know, that hobnobbing

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<v Speaker 2>might be a little you know, weird, because also young

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<v Speaker 2>girls you know, as young as thirteen years old were

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<v Speaker 2>also being asked to go to this infamous island and

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<v Speaker 2>act as maybe messuses for these very high profile men.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't think there were any real women there

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<v Speaker 2>per se, but regardless, the men are the ones that

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<v Speaker 2>I always was kind of hearing about. And then those massuses,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, slash massage therapists. Really that became like sort

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<v Speaker 2>of code word for sex trafficking. And the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>the scary part of this story has always been the

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<v Speaker 2>folklore of was this Epstein guy kind of luring young

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<v Speaker 2>women to come to this island to be with these

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<v Speaker 2>very high profile men, and then they would be videotape.

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<v Speaker 2>Like when this whole story broke back in the day,

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<v Speaker 2>it was like every single inch of this entire mansion

0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:33.800
<v Speaker 2>had had video cameras everywhere a little bit like what

0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.160
<v Speaker 2>we're seeing in the ditty case or allegedly what was

0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:40.160
<v Speaker 2>happening in the ditty case allegedly allegedly allegedly, so that

0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.480
<v Speaker 2>there was like a control room that you could see

0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.480
<v Speaker 2>all the cameras all over the mansion, so that if

0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:49.080
<v Speaker 2>like air quotes a prince or air quotes a former

0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:53.600
<v Speaker 2>president or an ambassador. People that were making very worldly

0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.080
<v Speaker 2>decisions would be air quotes lured there and then they

0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.199
<v Speaker 2>would be in the presence of maybe a thirteen year

0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:02.880
<v Speaker 2>old girl or young woman and oh shoot, you didn't

0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.240
<v Speaker 2>realize that that kind of got a little frisky.

0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:06.400
<v Speaker 4>Oh shoot, we have.

0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, we have it on camera. And then that

0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:10.880
<v Speaker 2>was a way of kind of the there's a term

0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.800
<v Speaker 2>for it, honey potting or honey taking, and when you like,

0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:18.280
<v Speaker 2>lure bees to a hive. And then therefore those tapes

0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:23.400
<v Speaker 2>were then later used as blackmail and potentially very worldly situations.

0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:27.640
<v Speaker 6>Eeke, when we come back, we're gonna hear everything from

0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:29.920
<v Speaker 6>top to bottom. Lease and I know we just bombarded

0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.160
<v Speaker 6>a bunch of information, but we cannot.

0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Wait to hear that thought.

0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:35.600
<v Speaker 4>Hold that thought, your side of.

0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.960
<v Speaker 6>This and listen, we are gonna continue diving into this.

0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.079
<v Speaker 6>When we come back, we'll have more insider knowledge on

0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:46.000
<v Speaker 6>Epstein in the wake of shocking recent developments, and later

0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:50.480
<v Speaker 6>also a forensic expert, Joseph Scott Morgan will be joining us.

0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.120
<v Speaker 6>Keep it here on True Crime Tonight, we are talking

0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:54.440
<v Speaker 6>true crime all the time.

0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.040
<v Speaker 2>true crime all the time. And we're about to be

0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.360
<v Speaker 2>joined by a very special guest, Lisa Bryant, who is

0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:18.720
<v Speaker 2>the director and the executive producer of Netflix's documentary Filthy Rich,

0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:23.040
<v Speaker 2>which really focused on Epstein and his victims back then.

0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.640
<v Speaker 2>But you know, she for sure has very interesting insight.

0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.320
<v Speaker 2>So just to go back to our last segment again,

0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.520
<v Speaker 2>some of this is my personal These are the theories

0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.400
<v Speaker 2>that we've heard in the press that people were being

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.679
<v Speaker 2>lured to this island of high profile and power. That

0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:41.040
<v Speaker 2>is that has not improven. Fact, some men in black

0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:45.000
<v Speaker 2>vests have shown up downstairs here at the studio. I'm kidding.

0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.520
<v Speaker 2>So yeah. And then anyway, Jeffrey Epstein gets arrested and

0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.680
<v Speaker 2>charged and is sitting in prison in New York and

0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.880
<v Speaker 2>then suddenly he takes his own life. And that seemed

0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:59.400
<v Speaker 2>like the allegedly allegedly, allegedly allegedly, but now it seems that,

0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, Pambondi, now we're in current time. White House

0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Land is like, oh, yeah, all these high profile people

0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:07.680
<v Speaker 2>on his client list, We're going to share this with

0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.480
<v Speaker 2>the public because it's been long talked about and touted about.

0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 2>And then she does a very unexpected thing. She does

0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.600
<v Speaker 2>it take back and is like, wait what, I didn't

0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:19.040
<v Speaker 2>mean that. No, there is no client list, not that

0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.720
<v Speaker 2>there's not a list that's been redacted for the sake

0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.600
<v Speaker 2>of the victims, etc. But rather there's no list at all.

0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:30.040
<v Speaker 2>Ks his right arm, kind of like his number two woman.

0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Her name is Gillien Maxwell. If you know this already,

0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.240
<v Speaker 2>just you know, bear with me. She was in fact

0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.760
<v Speaker 2>arrested for her shenanigains with him and is currently serving

0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:43.920
<v Speaker 2>time on federal charges because of these ongoings. So if

0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:47.320
<v Speaker 2>there was no client list, why is she in prison?

0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 2>And why did we even volunteer this client list in

0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.440
<v Speaker 2>the first place. All of it is making the whole

0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.320
<v Speaker 2>country crazy because we just want some facts, right, So

0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 2>don't forget the video. Well, the video, I guess is

0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:01.880
<v Speaker 2>like the the lead. So they released this.

0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:05.960
<v Speaker 3>You know, eleven hour video that was apparently supposed to

0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.400
<v Speaker 3>be footage of you know, Jeffrey Epstein's cell. By the way,

0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.360
<v Speaker 3>you can you cannot see his cell in this video.

0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.800
<v Speaker 3>It's ridiculous. And they said it was the raw footage.

0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.600
<v Speaker 3>The raw footage was their exact verbage the Department of Justice.

0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:22.200
<v Speaker 3>But there's a minute missing and there's an aspect ratio change,

0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.200
<v Speaker 3>and the metadata tells us that the video has been

0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.960
<v Speaker 3>edited by you know, Adobe Pro Premiere and it's two

0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.120
<v Speaker 3>video clips flice together. So there's that which is only

0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:33.360
<v Speaker 3>adding fuel to the fire.

0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.000
<v Speaker 2>By the way, I know how to edit on Adobe Premiere,

0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Like you would think this would be a little bit

0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.160
<v Speaker 2>more sophisticated. So well, they shouldn't have said raw footage

0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.240
<v Speaker 2>if it's not the raw footage eleven hours, one little section.

0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:49.360
<v Speaker 3>So the footage and everything though, especially with this crowd,

0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.720
<v Speaker 3>it's everything, and there's been so much discussion about it.

0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:54.560
<v Speaker 2>Who's on the list? What does that mean? Like? Who

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.080
<v Speaker 2>are we protecting? Who is is it nefarious? You know,

0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:01.359
<v Speaker 2>it seems like my two cents again, my two cents.

0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 2>It seems like there's a pox on all the houses

0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.720
<v Speaker 2>right now. So is it one side, is it the other? No?

0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.160
<v Speaker 2>Or is it just this larger umbrella that scares the

0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.200
<v Speaker 2>but Jesus out of me. It makes me so scared,

0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.280
<v Speaker 2>and I know I'm not alone in this, so anyway,

0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.880
<v Speaker 2>welcome the sane one. Lisa Bryant. Can you imagine you

0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.600
<v Speaker 2>can bring Lisa Bryant being stuck with me in a

0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.960
<v Speaker 2>car or something having to hear this. So Lisa tell

0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:27.960
<v Speaker 2>us everything. What do you think of these days? So

0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:31.520
<v Speaker 2>your experience back in the day when you were discussing,

0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.160
<v Speaker 2>when you were making your doc and Epstein like, these

0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:36.680
<v Speaker 2>were all very these were scary topics. Were you ever

0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.480
<v Speaker 2>nervous even making this documentary in the first place?

0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:43.120
<v Speaker 7>I was, let me tell you all about it in

0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.320
<v Speaker 7>one second. I just wanted to. Since you just gave

0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.640
<v Speaker 7>the rundown of kind of the latest, I was just

0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:50.200
<v Speaker 7>going to give you my gut reaction to all of

0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:54.040
<v Speaker 7>this news, the DOJ report, that's okay, I mean, of course,

0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:58.240
<v Speaker 7>my personal opinion after following this case for like seven

0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:02.680
<v Speaker 7>years now, it's hardly you. I really think this was

0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:07.080
<v Speaker 7>a really poor attempt to shut down the overwhelming public

0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.760
<v Speaker 7>interest and it just backfired. I think the report re

0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:16.040
<v Speaker 7>traumatizes the victims, gives no real answers, angers the public

0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:20.040
<v Speaker 7>that just really has this insatiable appetite and let's face it,

0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.280
<v Speaker 7>right to know about this story. I mean, inquiring minds

0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:27.920
<v Speaker 7>want to know things just don't add up. Everybody thinks

0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:31.080
<v Speaker 7>they're being lied to by the government, right, The only

0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.560
<v Speaker 7>feels conspiracies more. Ever, since the report came out. There's

0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.760
<v Speaker 7>been growing outrage I think daily because we're learning a

0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.920
<v Speaker 7>little bit more by different people who are speaking out.

0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.520
<v Speaker 7>You know, there's just this outrage you know by President

0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.879
<v Speaker 7>Trump's you know, most vocal supporters in the past, and

0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:52.000
<v Speaker 7>they're calling bs you know, where's the transparency. So that's

0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:56.240
<v Speaker 7>kind of my personal you know, take that. How stupid

0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:57.120
<v Speaker 7>do they think we are?

0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.040
<v Speaker 4>I know, being guess.

0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:01.080
<v Speaker 2>I do.

0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:02.440
<v Speaker 4>I feel like I'm being casolate.

0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.199
<v Speaker 6>So Lisa, just to super clarify, So, do you believe

0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:09.120
<v Speaker 6>there actually is the list which obviously Attorney General Pam

0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.800
<v Speaker 6>bondis BONDI said, you know, sitting on my desk, do

0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:13.720
<v Speaker 6>you believe that list exists?

0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:18.199
<v Speaker 7>Well, I think the term list client list is not

0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.639
<v Speaker 7>the right term. No, I don't think there is a

0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:25.480
<v Speaker 7>client list because I think there are different different lists,

0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.360
<v Speaker 7>if you will, or names that have already been put

0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.119
<v Speaker 7>out there. And I think most, if not all of

0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.840
<v Speaker 7>the names that are going to be put out there

0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:37.159
<v Speaker 7>are somewhere to be seen and you can make your

0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.640
<v Speaker 7>own list. But I mean the idea that I think

0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:43.360
<v Speaker 7>the general public has of a list is like you know,

0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.600
<v Speaker 7>your pen and paper you'd have on your notepad, at school,

0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.440
<v Speaker 7>and then at the top jeffreyption. You would say Jeffrey's list,

0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.720
<v Speaker 7>that's that, never this, And I think that's a misconception

0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:57.800
<v Speaker 7>that the public has because really, there the flight logs, right,

0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:00.040
<v Speaker 7>there's flight logs that names a lot of people. A

0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.280
<v Speaker 7>lot of those people are guilty of something a lot

0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:05.800
<v Speaker 7>or not. Must be very clear about that. The Black

0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.800
<v Speaker 7>Book hundreds of pages, hundreds of names. There's a lot

0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:12.040
<v Speaker 7>of guilty people there having sex with girls. Whether they're

0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.520
<v Speaker 7>underage of age doesn't matter. There are there are guilty

0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.000
<v Speaker 7>people in there, and I know that from hearing from

0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.560
<v Speaker 7>the victims, from doing research from sadly people who probably

0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:25.399
<v Speaker 7>may never be prosecuted. But there are names there, so

0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:26.840
<v Speaker 7>you can kind of create your own list. There are

0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:30.960
<v Speaker 7>also names that have been put forth in court documents.

0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.439
<v Speaker 7>You know, we can't say every name that's been in.

0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.320
<v Speaker 7>Some have been reacted, some names have not been reacting.

0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.560
<v Speaker 7>Can't you know, assume that everyone is guilty that's there.

0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.439
<v Speaker 7>But you know, I think if you've been really investigating this,

0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.160
<v Speaker 7>and you know, I think talking to surviving is key

0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:51.000
<v Speaker 7>and getting you know their story. I think I have

0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:55.359
<v Speaker 7>my own list. I can't say I have a working list,

0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.760
<v Speaker 7>I should say, you know what I mean in terms

0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:01.040
<v Speaker 7>of like people that we you know, I had the

0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.760
<v Speaker 7>team that I've worked with on both the different documentaries,

0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:06.840
<v Speaker 7>the Jeffrey Epstein Filthie Rich and then the Maxwell follow

0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:10.520
<v Speaker 7>up documentary. So there's you know that we had great teams,

0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.840
<v Speaker 7>great people, great support with Netflix and Radical Medy and

0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:18.720
<v Speaker 7>Joe growing drew of course, And but it's very difficult

0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:22.720
<v Speaker 7>to name names. As you know, there's a lot of

0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:26.119
<v Speaker 7>big risks, and I have to say, you know, and

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:27.960
<v Speaker 7>now to get back a little bit to how this

0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.560
<v Speaker 7>hole started and was I ever nervous? And it's funny.

0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:34.800
<v Speaker 7>I was working at Radical Media on a different project

0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.320
<v Speaker 7>that had just kind of finished, and Joe said to me,

0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:40.240
<v Speaker 7>I have another project coming up, but we really need

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.439
<v Speaker 7>a female to direct this. Would you be interested in

0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.760
<v Speaker 7>this guy named Jeffrey Epstein? And I never heard Jeffrey Epstein,

0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.680
<v Speaker 7>I you know, didn't grow up in New York, California, girl,

0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:55.240
<v Speaker 7>and not that I just never was didn't run run

0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.360
<v Speaker 7>in those circles. And I looked him up, and you know,

0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.399
<v Speaker 7>the more I read, the more outraged I became, the

0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:06.159
<v Speaker 7>more interested I became in trying to reveal, you know,

0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:10.159
<v Speaker 7>some of this story, because he was very much alive

0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.840
<v Speaker 7>when I started. I started a story in November of

0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:17.760
<v Speaker 7>twenty eighteen. He was arrested eight months later. We had

0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.200
<v Speaker 7>already and this is little TV talk, but we had

0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:24.119
<v Speaker 7>already delivered our first rough cut to the network before

0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:27.359
<v Speaker 7>he was arrested. But I will say, and I still

0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:33.760
<v Speaker 7>say this, this was the hardest, faddest, most kind of

0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:39.080
<v Speaker 7>an inexcruciatingly frustrating story that I have ever could ever

0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:42.320
<v Speaker 7>and we'll ever work on and most important, you know,

0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.919
<v Speaker 7>I'm grateful for the experience. But it's also been very

0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:48.640
<v Speaker 7>heavy heavy. As you guys can imagine.

0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 3>The responsibility to tell the story. It's it's a massive

0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:54.040
<v Speaker 3>responsibility to tell the story. So yeah, I can see

0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:56.200
<v Speaker 3>why that would be like really heavy for you.

0:21:56.880 --> 0:22:00.000
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, and you know he was he was very much alive,

0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:03.560
<v Speaker 7>trafficking girls, not just to his island, which is you know,

0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:08.080
<v Speaker 7>kind of the sexy thing that we and really I

0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:12.080
<v Speaker 7>think the worst and most you know, crazy stuff from

0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:15.439
<v Speaker 7>my research and then talking to people happened there. You know,

0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.800
<v Speaker 7>it's remote, it's hidden and very secretive, and you get

0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:23.320
<v Speaker 7>blown out there and you know it's very you know, mysterious,

0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:28.399
<v Speaker 7>but he also remembered he had his Manhattan townhouse, huge

0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:32.399
<v Speaker 7>Manhattan townhouse where all those cameras you're talking about and those,

0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:36.560
<v Speaker 7>and also on the island. He had his big mansion

0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:40.240
<v Speaker 7>in Santa Fe, well just outside of Sante in New Mexico.

0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:45.000
<v Speaker 7>He also had a place in Paris, you know, he

0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:48.720
<v Speaker 7>and then of course his infamous Florida home where his

0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:52.400
<v Speaker 7>high school operation went. He really had three different kind

0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:58.159
<v Speaker 7>of ways, and I guess decades of of grooming and

0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:02.639
<v Speaker 7>trafficking women. MaTx Elgawleyne Maxwell, his number two partner in crime,

0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:06.239
<v Speaker 7>was really a little along the ride for most of it.

0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:11.000
<v Speaker 7>It kind of started in the early nineties, you know,

0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:13.480
<v Speaker 7>for the most part. That's where it kind of really

0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:16.680
<v Speaker 7>picked up steam where she was really really involved. She

0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:19.240
<v Speaker 7>was his girlfriend, She dated him, she was madly in

0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:19.560
<v Speaker 7>love with.

0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:22.240
<v Speaker 2>She loved him, right, that's my scoop on that, Like

0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:25.560
<v Speaker 2>she was crazy for him and like somehow thought getting

0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:29.000
<v Speaker 2>him more girls would keep him in her world. This

0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:31.120
<v Speaker 2>is again my like soap opera version in my head.

0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:33.000
<v Speaker 2>But it seemed like she was really.

0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:35.119
<v Speaker 7>In love with She seems to be accurate. Yeah, that

0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:38.040
<v Speaker 7>that is that's Okay, that's what we reported, and that

0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.280
<v Speaker 7>seems to be why. I mean, it can never explain

0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:44.520
<v Speaker 7>why why would someone do the things that she has

0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:47.600
<v Speaker 7>been convicted of. Let's just say she's been convicted, so

0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:50.080
<v Speaker 7>we can say that she did. You know, she was

0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:54.399
<v Speaker 7>his you know, it was an international sex trafficking scheme,

0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:57.520
<v Speaker 7>really pyramids. He was at the top, the main pimp.

0:23:57.680 --> 0:24:00.760
<v Speaker 7>She was pimp number two. She was his right hand woman.

0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:05.760
<v Speaker 7>And really, especially in those early nineties, they were recruiting

0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:09.560
<v Speaker 7>you know, everything from models, the girls standing outside of

0:24:09.840 --> 0:24:13.919
<v Speaker 7>famous private schools in New York City, to going to

0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:19.560
<v Speaker 7>beauty pageants that presidents were hosting and things like that

0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:24.399
<v Speaker 7>and plucking out, you know, women that he was attracted to,

0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:27.360
<v Speaker 7>that spit the mold, that seemed like perhaps they were

0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:31.879
<v Speaker 7>in need of something. Summer camps, how you know, it

0:24:31.960 --> 0:24:34.520
<v Speaker 7>was always this kind of house. How I can help.

0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:39.400
<v Speaker 3>More with expert Lisa Bryant on the shocking Epstein updates,

0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:42.840
<v Speaker 3>and we're going to be unpacking his alleged suicide with

0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:46.560
<v Speaker 3>forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, and later we want to

0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:48.640
<v Speaker 3>be hearing from you. Give us a call at eight

0:24:48.720 --> 0:24:51.200
<v Speaker 3>eight eight thirty one Crime we'll be right back.

0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:53.639
<v Speaker 4>Keep it right here. True Crime Tonight, where we're talking

0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:54.800
<v Speaker 4>true crime all the time.

0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:08.159
<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:11.560
<v Speaker 2>true crime all the time. And we're also joined by director,

0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:15.600
<v Speaker 2>executive producer, colleague and friend Lisa Bryant. Now, she made

0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:20.920
<v Speaker 2>the Netflix documentary Filthy Rich, the Epstein Free Epstein doc

0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:23.679
<v Speaker 2>as well as the follow up about Gileen Maxwell. So

0:25:24.080 --> 0:25:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Lisa was just telling us that she actually started working

0:25:26.800 --> 0:25:30.639
<v Speaker 2>on this documentary for you know, months before Jeffrey was

0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:33.600
<v Speaker 2>actually arrested. I didn't realize he was still alive when

0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:35.879
<v Speaker 2>you were working on this, Lisa. That means it was

0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:39.600
<v Speaker 2>very dangerous. So go ahead, phill Us in from what happens?

0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Were you ever at the island?

0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:45.320
<v Speaker 7>No? Yes, a matter of fact, I staked out three

0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:48.720
<v Speaker 7>of his properties. I went to the island twice, once

0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:54.240
<v Speaker 7>when he was alive, once after he was dead, suicided, whatever.

0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:58.600
<v Speaker 7>And I also staked out his Florida home and his

0:25:59.680 --> 0:26:01.800
<v Speaker 7>New York mansion. And I did go actually to New

0:26:01.840 --> 0:26:04.400
<v Speaker 7>Mexico too and got there as well.

0:26:04.600 --> 0:26:05.280
<v Speaker 8>But the island.

0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:08.280
<v Speaker 4>While he went to the island, well.

0:26:08.359 --> 0:26:10.800
<v Speaker 7>Let me clarify, I never went on. I was not

0:26:11.040 --> 0:26:14.440
<v Speaker 7>I was not allowed on the island for I took

0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:17.280
<v Speaker 7>a boat with a camera person. Of course, we're like.

0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:22.600
<v Speaker 8>We're we're going that I was around the gods not

0:26:22.760 --> 0:26:26.480
<v Speaker 8>so much because everywhere you look, as you get closer,

0:26:26.520 --> 0:26:29.960
<v Speaker 8>because you fly into Saint Thomas and then you take

0:26:30.200 --> 0:26:32.159
<v Speaker 8>you know, a boat, you.

0:26:32.359 --> 0:26:35.399
<v Speaker 7>Can it's it's you know, it's not huge, but it

0:26:35.520 --> 0:26:37.800
<v Speaker 7>certainly you'll take it a little while to put around it.

0:26:37.840 --> 0:26:40.359
<v Speaker 7>So we're like, oh, it looks like there's like almost

0:26:40.400 --> 0:26:42.680
<v Speaker 7>they look like little tanks. But I guess they're jeeps,

0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:45.040
<v Speaker 7>but from far away because some of them had like

0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:47.639
<v Speaker 7>you know, army prints, and I was kind of like, oh,

0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:50.879
<v Speaker 7>got some tanks out there protecting it. But actually I

0:26:50.880 --> 0:26:53.840
<v Speaker 7>think they were just jeeps. But there, you know, you

0:26:53.880 --> 0:26:56.480
<v Speaker 7>can see him in certain areas that we'd just you know,

0:26:56.760 --> 0:26:59.600
<v Speaker 7>go on the water a little further around seeing maybe

0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:01.320
<v Speaker 7>we can get on over there, maybe we can get

0:27:01.359 --> 0:27:03.920
<v Speaker 7>on under. And I'm telling you, the minute they are

0:27:03.960 --> 0:27:06.879
<v Speaker 7>they are all of his you know, security is on

0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:11.639
<v Speaker 7>guard before he's before he's arrested, after he's arrested, and

0:27:11.880 --> 0:27:15.080
<v Speaker 7>after he's dead, people are still running that island. So

0:27:15.200 --> 0:27:17.080
<v Speaker 7>we never were able to get on because we saw

0:27:17.119 --> 0:27:21.480
<v Speaker 7>these men on you know, these commerce or what jeeps

0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:26.320
<v Speaker 7>following the boats as going around, you know, to the island,

0:27:26.480 --> 0:27:28.960
<v Speaker 7>so we could see that they had guns. So that

0:27:29.040 --> 0:27:31.399
<v Speaker 7>was a little scary. But I will say that after

0:27:31.440 --> 0:27:33.760
<v Speaker 7>he was dead, I didn't see you know, we got

0:27:33.800 --> 0:27:35.879
<v Speaker 7>on the boat again because of course, that's what you

0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:38.880
<v Speaker 7>wanted to try to get on the island and take

0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:43.160
<v Speaker 7>pictures of yourself, you know, the whole crazy weird stuff

0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:44.920
<v Speaker 7>and see if there's a tunnels and all of that.

0:27:45.080 --> 0:27:50.280
<v Speaker 7>But anyway tunnel you get close to, well, there's rumors

0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:53.399
<v Speaker 7>there were tunnels underneath, and you know it's not I

0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:55.280
<v Speaker 7>don't even know if it's rumors, if I'm hearing it

0:27:55.320 --> 0:27:59.360
<v Speaker 7>from a survivor, you know, it's let's just say, there's

0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:02.359
<v Speaker 7>the answer. Could have been some tunnels underneath eye, you know,

0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:06.320
<v Speaker 7>I cannot say. But bottom line is, we go and

0:28:06.359 --> 0:28:08.640
<v Speaker 7>we're getting closer and closer to the docks, and there's

0:28:08.680 --> 0:28:11.760
<v Speaker 7>nobody in sight. But all of a sudden, probably I

0:28:11.760 --> 0:28:14.680
<v Speaker 7>don't know, twenty yards from the dock. He's kind of

0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:17.160
<v Speaker 7>it's kind of hilly, it's an island, and they're from

0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:19.880
<v Speaker 7>all sides. They're about I would say, two on each

0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:23.600
<v Speaker 7>side of these these men and jeeps again with with

0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:26.359
<v Speaker 7>literally black what looked like to me, I don't know

0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:29.920
<v Speaker 7>what machine, look looks like a machine done. And they

0:28:30.000 --> 0:28:34.320
<v Speaker 7>come hauling towards the yacht and like making noise with

0:28:34.359 --> 0:28:38.320
<v Speaker 7>some sort of noise maker or something. And I first thought, oh,

0:28:38.360 --> 0:28:41.360
<v Speaker 7>maybe this is like the police just protecting the island.

0:28:41.520 --> 0:28:44.560
<v Speaker 7>It was the night it was Epstein still had even

0:28:44.600 --> 0:28:47.320
<v Speaker 7>though he's gone, he's dead, you know, his people were

0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:50.920
<v Speaker 7>still for a very long time running all of his properties.

0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:52.760
<v Speaker 7>It took a long time to go through all this,

0:28:52.920 --> 0:28:55.520
<v Speaker 7>you know, the legal stuff and probade and all this

0:28:55.840 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 7>kind of stuff, which is I think some of this

0:28:57.800 --> 0:29:02.000
<v Speaker 7>is scillity's been going on. But anyway, we high tailed

0:29:02.080 --> 0:29:04.640
<v Speaker 7>out that. That was a little scary. The other time,

0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:07.920
<v Speaker 7>like when we staked out his house because we were

0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:10.800
<v Speaker 7>tracking my team was tracking his plane. You know, he

0:29:10.840 --> 0:29:14.080
<v Speaker 7>has a private jet his tail number, and we wanted

0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:17.880
<v Speaker 7>to approach his house. That I wasn't physically like afraid

0:29:17.920 --> 0:29:19.920
<v Speaker 7>he was going to do something to me, but I

0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:22.080
<v Speaker 7>really wanted to, you know, do like a door knock,

0:29:22.280 --> 0:29:25.880
<v Speaker 7>you know, like in TV your doorknock. So at a

0:29:26.400 --> 0:29:29.360
<v Speaker 7>house I did. It was like a door knock because

0:29:29.400 --> 0:29:32.120
<v Speaker 7>we had tracked his plane. We knew he was there.

0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:35.880
<v Speaker 7>We saw this mysterious you know escalade, like a parade

0:29:35.880 --> 0:29:39.080
<v Speaker 7>of escalades go in. So we just kind of sat outside.

0:29:39.320 --> 0:29:41.600
<v Speaker 7>There's you know, there's there's a gate and there's a

0:29:41.640 --> 0:29:45.120
<v Speaker 7>little buzzer. So I hit the buzzer and sure enough

0:29:45.200 --> 0:29:48.880
<v Speaker 7>his door manner or house manager says, you know, hello,

0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:51.240
<v Speaker 7>and I said, you know, as mister Epstein home. No,

0:29:51.400 --> 0:29:54.320
<v Speaker 7>he's not here. And I said, oh, I identified myself

0:29:54.400 --> 0:29:57.400
<v Speaker 7>and are you sure he's not here because I could

0:29:57.440 --> 0:30:01.320
<v Speaker 7>swear that I saw him pull in. Nope, he's not here.

0:30:01.360 --> 0:30:03.120
<v Speaker 7>If you want to leave your card, I said, I'm

0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:06.400
<v Speaker 7>absolutely going to leave my card. And anyway, I never

0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:08.560
<v Speaker 7>did get a chance to talk to him, but I

0:30:08.600 --> 0:30:12.080
<v Speaker 7>do believe in fact he was there and heading out.

0:30:12.120 --> 0:30:15.200
<v Speaker 7>And then one other time, this is you know, I.

0:30:15.120 --> 0:30:18.200
<v Speaker 2>Don't have tory, Like my jaws dropped right now that

0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:21.480
<v Speaker 2>you're putting yourself in these very dangerous these are like

0:30:21.880 --> 0:30:25.320
<v Speaker 2>the hornet's nest. Like we wouldn't even google his name

0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:28.560
<v Speaker 2>at one point because it was sort of that scary

0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:31.280
<v Speaker 2>of a case because of all of the high profile

0:30:31.320 --> 0:30:33.400
<v Speaker 2>people that he may or may not have been connected to.

0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:35.520
<v Speaker 2>So continue we're in awe.

0:30:35.560 --> 0:30:39.800
<v Speaker 7>Well, I think part of it is I think I

0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:41.840
<v Speaker 7>was sort of in denial too. I don't think we

0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:45.280
<v Speaker 7>really knew at that point. How you know, you're hearing

0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:47.720
<v Speaker 7>these rumors and but we certainly didn't know it was

0:30:47.760 --> 0:30:51.400
<v Speaker 7>like hundreds of women and you know, I mean, we

0:30:51.520 --> 0:30:53.840
<v Speaker 7>just didn't know that when it was going on, we

0:30:53.920 --> 0:30:56.360
<v Speaker 7>knew it was bad and that you know that the

0:30:56.640 --> 0:30:59.800
<v Speaker 7>two thousand and eight the Palm Beach Police kind of

0:31:00.240 --> 0:31:04.080
<v Speaker 7>buffed that whole thing, or alex Acosta was the fall

0:31:04.120 --> 0:31:07.080
<v Speaker 7>guy for that government botch. I believe that, you know,

0:31:07.840 --> 0:31:09.640
<v Speaker 7>to give him just a slap on the wrist and

0:31:09.680 --> 0:31:13.400
<v Speaker 7>let him right back out. But it was just kind

0:31:13.400 --> 0:31:17.640
<v Speaker 7>of evolved into what it became. I guess that. So

0:31:17.880 --> 0:31:20.280
<v Speaker 7>I guess I didn't have the fear that I probably

0:31:20.800 --> 0:31:21.200
<v Speaker 7>should have.

0:31:21.240 --> 0:31:25.520
<v Speaker 2>Passed in retrospect in hindsight, right, like knowing what we

0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:29.680
<v Speaker 2>know now that he was like a real worldwide sex trafficker.

0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:31.480
<v Speaker 2>In case you're just joining us too, please hit us

0:31:31.560 --> 0:31:34.200
<v Speaker 2>up eight eight eight three one crime if you want

0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:38.320
<v Speaker 2>to join the conversation. We have director Lisa Bryant who

0:31:38.640 --> 0:31:42.000
<v Speaker 2>is an incredible director and executive producer, but also did

0:31:42.040 --> 0:31:46.160
<v Speaker 2>the Epstein and Geleen Maxwell documentaries on Netflix. So she's

0:31:46.240 --> 0:31:48.240
<v Speaker 2>kind of giving us a little behind the scenes here

0:31:48.320 --> 0:31:51.520
<v Speaker 2>and basically how she was knocking on doors when he

0:31:51.680 --> 0:31:54.720
<v Speaker 2>was alive and also tried to get on the island

0:31:54.920 --> 0:31:56.680
<v Speaker 2>when he was And by the way, the island's a

0:31:56.680 --> 0:32:00.160
<v Speaker 2>big deal because if young girls are being brought there, imagine, oh, hey,

0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:02.720
<v Speaker 2>come with us to this fancy island with this very fancy,

0:32:02.880 --> 0:32:05.240
<v Speaker 2>you know man and all of his fancy friends. And

0:32:05.280 --> 0:32:08.320
<v Speaker 2>then you can't get off the island because you have

0:32:08.360 --> 0:32:10.040
<v Speaker 2>to take a little private plane to get there in

0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:13.480
<v Speaker 2>the first place. So that's particularly scaring because you can't

0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:16.480
<v Speaker 2>just not that there's ever a just when you're being

0:32:16.600 --> 0:32:19.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, assaulted, but you can't run. Oh my goodness.

0:32:19.800 --> 0:32:24.240
<v Speaker 7>He took the girl's passport. And actually Glene Maxwell often

0:32:24.440 --> 0:32:27.640
<v Speaker 7>she had a helicopter pilot's license. She would helicopter the

0:32:27.640 --> 0:32:30.280
<v Speaker 7>girls there from they would fly to the main island

0:32:30.320 --> 0:32:33.240
<v Speaker 7>and then they would she would helicopter some of them

0:32:33.280 --> 0:32:36.120
<v Speaker 7>over to Little Saint James was the name.

0:32:36.000 --> 0:32:36.719
<v Speaker 2>Of the island.

0:32:37.400 --> 0:32:38.680
<v Speaker 4>That's wild perfect.

0:32:38.720 --> 0:32:42.440
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, she is a license helicopter anyway, Yeah, we can

0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:44.320
<v Speaker 7>talk about her and her involvement.

0:32:44.600 --> 0:32:46.840
<v Speaker 6>Oh, I was going to say on the Gileen Maxwell,

0:32:47.000 --> 0:32:50.240
<v Speaker 6>which is the documentary I watched most recently, and it

0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:54.840
<v Speaker 6>is so compelling and so well done. What's Killeen Maxwell?

0:32:55.120 --> 0:32:59.080
<v Speaker 6>Was she procuring all of these girls and women for

0:32:59.600 --> 0:33:01.520
<v Speaker 6>because the go ahead?

0:33:01.760 --> 0:33:04.600
<v Speaker 7>Not the high school girls. Not the high school girls,

0:33:04.760 --> 0:33:08.480
<v Speaker 7>and she would she claimed that she was out of

0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:10.800
<v Speaker 7>his life by then. That turns out not to be

0:33:10.840 --> 0:33:13.040
<v Speaker 7>the case. She would actually kind of hit out on

0:33:13.080 --> 0:33:15.080
<v Speaker 7>the island. So there was still kind of the what

0:33:15.160 --> 0:33:17.600
<v Speaker 7>I would say, the older girls, a little bit older,

0:33:18.120 --> 0:33:21.160
<v Speaker 7>the high school girls, which is what made you know,

0:33:21.680 --> 0:33:24.760
<v Speaker 7>for the arrest. Really in two thousand and five is

0:33:24.840 --> 0:33:28.520
<v Speaker 7>when Palm Beach police got involved when the mother of

0:33:28.640 --> 0:33:31.480
<v Speaker 7>a fourteen year old girl said, oh, my daughter had

0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:33.880
<v Speaker 7>a school called me. She had all this cash in

0:33:33.920 --> 0:33:36.280
<v Speaker 7>her in her pocketbook and there was a fight that

0:33:36.360 --> 0:33:40.160
<v Speaker 7>broke out and anyway, so that's what started the investigation,

0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:44.760
<v Speaker 7>and they had you know, identified, you know, during that investigation,

0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:49.360
<v Speaker 7>like more than two dozen I think almost three dozen

0:33:49.680 --> 0:33:54.400
<v Speaker 7>victims of Jeffrey Epstein and so Glaine. But what was

0:33:54.720 --> 0:33:57.840
<v Speaker 7>crazy about that is the high school girls ended up

0:33:57.920 --> 0:34:00.800
<v Speaker 7>recruiting themselves. It was a crazy thing. And I think

0:34:00.800 --> 0:34:04.000
<v Speaker 7>that's what is so like unbelievable when people hear about this,

0:34:04.080 --> 0:34:06.720
<v Speaker 7>and it's it's fascinating, but not in a good way.

0:34:07.000 --> 0:34:12.239
<v Speaker 7>It's shocking really. So they had started with someone, you know,

0:34:12.920 --> 0:34:15.920
<v Speaker 7>who was a young woman, probably not much older than

0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:18.960
<v Speaker 7>high school who would you know, recruit and said, this

0:34:19.040 --> 0:34:21.520
<v Speaker 7>guy needs a massage, and then you know, if you

0:34:21.600 --> 0:34:24.560
<v Speaker 7>bring somebody then you can get money too. And and

0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:26.960
<v Speaker 7>you know, some of the girls like they didn't want to,

0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:29.319
<v Speaker 7>you know, take part in the massages, but hey, I'll

0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:31.920
<v Speaker 7>bring a friend. I mean, but these are all a

0:34:31.920 --> 0:34:36.080
<v Speaker 7>lot of the girls targeted were very vulnerable, you know,

0:34:36.200 --> 0:34:40.480
<v Speaker 7>had came from broken homes, had money problems, or they

0:34:40.680 --> 0:34:43.760
<v Speaker 7>you know, had big dreams that you know, he promised

0:34:43.760 --> 0:34:47.279
<v Speaker 7>to fulfill. But the fact that at you know, some

0:34:47.320 --> 0:34:49.640
<v Speaker 7>of these high schools, there was two high schools in

0:34:49.680 --> 0:34:53.000
<v Speaker 7>particular in West Palm Beach that the girls would recruit

0:34:53.000 --> 0:34:54.759
<v Speaker 7>each other and it was like a train and it

0:34:54.800 --> 0:34:57.279
<v Speaker 7>went on and on and on for like four or

0:34:57.280 --> 0:35:00.759
<v Speaker 7>five years till finally, you know, the the cops got

0:35:00.760 --> 0:35:03.759
<v Speaker 7>wind of it. But I don't know how, like the

0:35:03.840 --> 0:35:07.880
<v Speaker 7>teacher or other kids. Didn't everybody knew about it. The

0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:11.640
<v Speaker 7>survivors that we talked to, who are right underage girls.

0:35:11.680 --> 0:35:15.560
<v Speaker 7>It's a very open secret. How that never got out before.

0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:19.400
<v Speaker 7>It's crazy. But you know, when their children, their brains

0:35:19.440 --> 0:35:22.520
<v Speaker 7>are not fully formed. We know they can't get consent.

0:35:23.080 --> 0:35:26.520
<v Speaker 7>They're you know, getting some money, which I know a

0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:28.600
<v Speaker 7>lot of people have issue with, Well why did they

0:35:28.680 --> 0:35:31.319
<v Speaker 7>go back. They're getting something out of it, they got paid.

0:35:31.560 --> 0:35:34.279
<v Speaker 7>Their children they can't. And even once who are like

0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:39.080
<v Speaker 7>eighteen nineteen, you're still your brain is not fully formed.

0:35:39.080 --> 0:35:42.120
<v Speaker 7>Your your prefrontal cortex is not formed until you're in

0:35:42.160 --> 0:35:46.520
<v Speaker 7>your mid twenties. So it's and again when you're being

0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:49.960
<v Speaker 7>roomed and manipulated, and you know, he paid attention to

0:35:50.000 --> 0:35:53.200
<v Speaker 7>these girls, you know, and a lot of them. It's

0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:55.879
<v Speaker 7>kind of weird. I talked to some you know, weird

0:35:56.040 --> 0:35:59.240
<v Speaker 7>not even the right word. It's it's sad and shocking.

0:35:59.320 --> 0:36:02.480
<v Speaker 7>But some girl said that they actually were in love

0:36:02.520 --> 0:36:04.759
<v Speaker 7>with him, you know, And I don't think that's all

0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:07.319
<v Speaker 7>that in common. That sometimes room all in love with

0:36:07.400 --> 0:36:08.040
<v Speaker 7>your abuser.

0:36:08.360 --> 0:36:10.319
<v Speaker 3>That's what groomers do. They make you fall in love

0:36:10.360 --> 0:36:11.800
<v Speaker 3>with them. That's the that's.

0:36:11.680 --> 0:36:14.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, especially like you know, he wasn't like, you know,

0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:17.759
<v Speaker 2>a scary looking guy like he was like a successful,

0:36:18.280 --> 0:36:21.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, affluent guy. And that's why having Elaine Maxwell

0:36:21.200 --> 0:36:24.120
<v Speaker 2>his number two was even more you know, damning Frankly,

0:36:24.160 --> 0:36:26.799
<v Speaker 2>and why she's Frankly serving time because you know, when

0:36:26.800 --> 0:36:29.320
<v Speaker 2>there's a woman around that, it makes it feel a

0:36:29.360 --> 0:36:31.839
<v Speaker 2>little safer. Right, So if you have a woman saying, oh,

0:36:31.840 --> 0:36:34.279
<v Speaker 2>it's cool, just come you'll be safe here, you don't

0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:37.040
<v Speaker 2>think like, oh my god, older, creepy man, he's going

0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:39.720
<v Speaker 2>to lock the door behind me. When there's somehow another

0:36:39.840 --> 0:36:42.640
<v Speaker 2>female in the mix, it seems somehow safer. And I

0:36:42.719 --> 0:36:47.920
<v Speaker 2>think that's really something worth exploring and us talking about. Absolutely. Listen,

0:36:47.960 --> 0:36:51.239
<v Speaker 2>there was allegedly this list of a very you know,

0:36:51.360 --> 0:36:55.279
<v Speaker 2>influential and high profile world leaders for example, that were

0:36:55.280 --> 0:36:59.400
<v Speaker 2>going to this very fancy island that he owned in girls,

0:36:59.560 --> 0:37:02.239
<v Speaker 2>young ones as young as thirteen years old were being

0:37:02.360 --> 0:37:06.839
<v Speaker 2>lured there to essentially have sex with these with these men.

0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:11.759
<v Speaker 2>And then Epstein allegedly allegedly allegedly was you know, videotaping it.

0:37:11.800 --> 0:37:15.080
<v Speaker 2>That was there was cameras everywhere, you know, The assertion

0:37:15.480 --> 0:37:18.400
<v Speaker 2>or the conspiracy theory behind it. Again, this is a

0:37:18.440 --> 0:37:21.760
<v Speaker 2>theory in one that I happened to agree with that

0:37:21.760 --> 0:37:25.040
<v Speaker 2>that was maybe revenge video. Right. So now you have

0:37:25.120 --> 0:37:28.680
<v Speaker 2>these young girls, high profile world leaders. Now there's videotape

0:37:28.680 --> 0:37:32.319
<v Speaker 2>of maybe some nefarious behavior, and suddenly that's maybe a

0:37:32.320 --> 0:37:33.400
<v Speaker 2>blackmail situation.

0:37:33.600 --> 0:37:33.759
<v Speaker 9>Right.

0:37:33.840 --> 0:37:37.160
<v Speaker 2>So that's a little bit of the collateral Undergrearent. It's

0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:39.239
<v Speaker 2>like collateral. It's like collateral.

0:37:39.320 --> 0:37:42.680
<v Speaker 7>Yes. And what I think's interesting is because the DOJ

0:37:42.960 --> 0:37:47.200
<v Speaker 7>report says, quote, there was no credible evidence found that

0:37:47.239 --> 0:37:52.359
<v Speaker 7>Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals. Well, I do think there are

0:37:52.440 --> 0:37:56.480
<v Speaker 7>still some graphic comprom ats, as they call it, blackmail

0:37:56.520 --> 0:38:00.120
<v Speaker 7>tapes and photos that Epstein made of influential power for

0:38:00.280 --> 0:38:03.560
<v Speaker 7>men and others having sex with women that he and

0:38:03.640 --> 0:38:07.280
<v Speaker 7>Maxwell's trafficked to them, that he used leverage to build

0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:11.560
<v Speaker 7>his empire. And really, you know, that's how he made millions. Really,

0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:15.120
<v Speaker 7>I think almost all the survivors that I've spoken with

0:38:15.239 --> 0:38:18.560
<v Speaker 7>saying Steen cameras or learned they were hidden cameras at

0:38:18.680 --> 0:38:22.080
<v Speaker 7>multiple homes, not just the island. His New York home,

0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:24.960
<v Speaker 7>I know, was crawling with them, according to you know,

0:38:25.040 --> 0:38:29.480
<v Speaker 7>multiple survivors. And you remember when his home was raided.

0:38:29.560 --> 0:38:32.560
<v Speaker 7>Right after the arrest, they came out, FBI came out

0:38:32.680 --> 0:38:38.279
<v Speaker 7>carrying boxes of CDs and photos. They said photos. I'm

0:38:38.320 --> 0:38:42.879
<v Speaker 7>sure there were also some videos on those CDs. And

0:38:43.400 --> 0:38:47.000
<v Speaker 7>they also then raided the island and his homes, all

0:38:47.040 --> 0:38:49.719
<v Speaker 7>of the homes, you know. And also one of the

0:38:49.800 --> 0:38:54.080
<v Speaker 7>victims who, sadly, her name is Virginia Giufrey, sadly committed suicide.

0:38:54.480 --> 0:38:56.840
<v Speaker 7>But before we talk about that a little bit, she

0:38:57.440 --> 0:39:00.600
<v Speaker 7>said told me that, you know, Estein had told her

0:39:00.760 --> 0:39:03.759
<v Speaker 7>that he had taped these tapes of a lot of

0:39:03.840 --> 0:39:08.120
<v Speaker 7>important people doing things they shouldn't and that's he plat

0:39:08.200 --> 0:39:11.600
<v Speaker 7>Up told her that. Now, yes, I guess there's always

0:39:11.640 --> 0:39:14.640
<v Speaker 7>the chance that he could be making that up. But many,

0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:17.680
<v Speaker 7>many people believe he was running a blackmail operation on

0:39:17.760 --> 0:39:20.279
<v Speaker 7>behalf of a foreign government. Many people in DC and

0:39:20.320 --> 0:39:21.239
<v Speaker 7>elsewhere believe that.

0:39:21.400 --> 0:39:22.840
<v Speaker 4>And you said, you said.

0:39:23.080 --> 0:39:26.640
<v Speaker 7>They think he might have been operating on behalf of

0:39:26.960 --> 0:39:28.400
<v Speaker 7>foreign intelligence services.

0:39:28.440 --> 0:39:29.680
<v Speaker 4>I mean, because it's used to the.

0:39:29.760 --> 0:39:32.240
<v Speaker 7>Weapon is reel actually right, because.

0:39:32.200 --> 0:39:34.880
<v Speaker 3>This information is used as a weapon. Compromound is a

0:39:35.000 --> 0:39:37.960
<v Speaker 3>very specific turn which is coming right off the heels

0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:38.840
<v Speaker 3>of the diddy stuff.

0:39:38.840 --> 0:39:42.839
<v Speaker 2>I mean again, this is the high profile play right

0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:46.000
<v Speaker 2>now as dangerous as it gets. First of all, Lisa

0:39:46.040 --> 0:39:49.120
<v Speaker 2>Bryant with us, who's the director of the Epstein documentary

0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:52.000
<v Speaker 2>and the Gileen Maxwell follow up documentary. You can catch

0:39:52.000 --> 0:39:54.680
<v Speaker 2>it on Netflix, giving us sort of this inside track

0:39:54.760 --> 0:39:58.360
<v Speaker 2>information and like, listen, that is some scary stuff. So

0:39:58.400 --> 0:40:00.000
<v Speaker 2>the fact that that is now there's a little bit

0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:03.680
<v Speaker 2>take back of that information is also kind of scary

0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:06.239
<v Speaker 2>because you know, what do we do for victims? We listen,

0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:08.279
<v Speaker 2>We're going to be right back, So Lisa, I know

0:40:08.320 --> 0:40:14.000
<v Speaker 2>where we're keeping you for there's we'll be back True

0:40:14.040 --> 0:40:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Crime Tonight. We're talking true crime all the time. Welcome

0:40:26.880 --> 0:40:29.799
<v Speaker 2>back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

0:40:29.840 --> 0:40:32.120
<v Speaker 2>crime all the time, and listen. We want you to

0:40:32.200 --> 0:40:34.680
<v Speaker 2>jump in and join the conversation eight eight eight three

0:40:34.760 --> 0:40:37.359
<v Speaker 2>one crime or hit us up on our socials at

0:40:37.400 --> 0:40:40.719
<v Speaker 2>True Crime Tonight show on TikTok and Instagram, or at

0:40:40.800 --> 0:40:45.200
<v Speaker 2>True Crime Tonight on Facebook. We're talking Epstein, are we ever?

0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:48.799
<v Speaker 2>Because we have Lisa Bryant, the director of Filthy Rich

0:40:48.920 --> 0:40:52.799
<v Speaker 2>also the executive producer. So Filthy Rich is the documentary

0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:56.400
<v Speaker 2>about Jeffrey Epstein on Netflix. Definitely check it out. She

0:40:56.520 --> 0:41:00.440
<v Speaker 2>also did the follow up for Gilain Maxwell's dot commentary

0:41:00.880 --> 0:41:03.640
<v Speaker 2>and Lisa Bryan like she literally was going door to door,

0:41:03.920 --> 0:41:06.440
<v Speaker 2>knocking on doors. She took a boat to try to

0:41:06.480 --> 0:41:08.920
<v Speaker 2>get on the island. Turns out she was enabled to,

0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:11.200
<v Speaker 2>as we just heard, if you've missed any of the

0:41:11.320 --> 0:41:13.680
<v Speaker 2>last hour, you can always catch it right after the

0:41:13.680 --> 0:41:16.920
<v Speaker 2>show as a podcast. Please do so, Lisa back to you.

0:41:16.960 --> 0:41:20.440
<v Speaker 2>We were kind of knee deep in the many conspiracy theories,

0:41:20.680 --> 0:41:23.319
<v Speaker 2>or not even conspiracies, the many theories that at least

0:41:23.360 --> 0:41:26.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm seeing the chatter on is that maybe Epstein was

0:41:26.400 --> 0:41:30.120
<v Speaker 2>working for a foreign agent and was essentially, you know,

0:41:30.160 --> 0:41:33.960
<v Speaker 2>whether he was luring powerful, high profile world leaders to

0:41:34.040 --> 0:41:39.080
<v Speaker 2>his island and had videotapes everywhere in cameras, videotapes like

0:41:39.080 --> 0:41:42.719
<v Speaker 2>it's nineteen seventy five. He had cameras everywhere, So that

0:41:42.920 --> 0:41:46.920
<v Speaker 2>essentially if a leader or somebody of significance and importance

0:41:47.160 --> 0:41:49.879
<v Speaker 2>was you know, having sex with a thirteen year old

0:41:50.000 --> 0:41:52.920
<v Speaker 2>or an underage woman or even just a young woman

0:41:53.800 --> 0:41:57.080
<v Speaker 2>that was outside of his actual life, then there was

0:41:57.400 --> 0:42:01.160
<v Speaker 2>tape of it. Then that becomes like basically revenge listen

0:42:01.239 --> 0:42:05.680
<v Speaker 2>that has high value and high value amongst very very

0:42:05.719 --> 0:42:08.399
<v Speaker 2>influential people. So it's important stuff. And you know, we're

0:42:08.400 --> 0:42:11.080
<v Speaker 2>coming off the heels of the Didty documentary that I

0:42:11.200 --> 0:42:13.920
<v Speaker 2>just watch and also the Diddy trial that these are

0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:18.000
<v Speaker 2>some of the alleged things that frankly he wasn't brought

0:42:18.080 --> 0:42:20.640
<v Speaker 2>up on and that seems like a thing of the

0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:24.840
<v Speaker 2>past with Diddy. But the idea that there's blackmail like this,

0:42:25.360 --> 0:42:28.640
<v Speaker 2>and maybe more importantly, what that does for victims, because

0:42:29.040 --> 0:42:32.000
<v Speaker 2>the fear would be that victims are afraid to come

0:42:32.040 --> 0:42:35.239
<v Speaker 2>forward a because they don't want to be seen on videotapes,

0:42:35.320 --> 0:42:38.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, like that's so a embarrassing and horrifying, also

0:42:38.680 --> 0:42:42.680
<v Speaker 2>that it's incredibly dangerous and maybe the most significantly, Hey, look,

0:42:42.719 --> 0:42:45.600
<v Speaker 2>nobody believes you. And it seems as though in the

0:42:45.640 --> 0:42:49.319
<v Speaker 2>Epstein documentary that you made Lisa so beautifully that's kind

0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:51.960
<v Speaker 2>of the lead here, right. Virginia Dufrey, the probably the

0:42:52.000 --> 0:42:55.440
<v Speaker 2>loudest of the victims not very long ago, you know,

0:42:55.520 --> 0:42:59.000
<v Speaker 2>sadly took her life back in April. So we'd love

0:42:59.040 --> 0:43:01.680
<v Speaker 2>to hear from you kind of your experience with just

0:43:01.880 --> 0:43:03.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, the victims that you've spoken to.

0:43:04.840 --> 0:43:08.960
<v Speaker 7>Well, Virginia, really I think nothing would have happened to

0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:12.080
<v Speaker 7>Epstein or Maxwell had it not been for her banging

0:43:12.120 --> 0:43:15.480
<v Speaker 7>the drum so loud. She started in twenty fifteen with

0:43:15.520 --> 0:43:18.960
<v Speaker 7>the lawsuit actually against Maxwell first because there was an

0:43:18.960 --> 0:43:23.360
<v Speaker 7>opportunity there that she was not going to have with Epstein.

0:43:23.760 --> 0:43:26.040
<v Speaker 7>It was more of a defamation case. But through the

0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:30.560
<v Speaker 7>depositions in that case, they were able to her attorneys

0:43:30.560 --> 0:43:33.480
<v Speaker 7>were able to get in all of the stuff that

0:43:33.600 --> 0:43:38.560
<v Speaker 7>was happening, all the trafficking, different allegations and whatnot. So

0:43:39.160 --> 0:43:43.400
<v Speaker 7>she never back down. I mean she named names, She

0:43:43.520 --> 0:43:47.560
<v Speaker 7>named big names, you know, and took a lot, a

0:43:47.600 --> 0:43:49.000
<v Speaker 7>lot of flack, a lot of heat.

0:43:49.080 --> 0:43:49.279
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:43:49.400 --> 0:43:54.920
<v Speaker 7>She came very forward publicly against Prince Andrew Alan Dershwoodz.

0:43:55.880 --> 0:43:58.160
<v Speaker 7>There's a number of other people that you know are

0:43:58.239 --> 0:44:01.560
<v Speaker 7>in some of the depositions that may not be so public,

0:44:01.640 --> 0:44:04.279
<v Speaker 7>but she wanted to make your list. There's some other,

0:44:04.760 --> 0:44:09.560
<v Speaker 7>you know, very prominent names and things that she you know,

0:44:09.600 --> 0:44:14.000
<v Speaker 7>alleges with traffic too. And anyway, she never backed down.

0:44:14.239 --> 0:44:17.480
<v Speaker 7>And I think she had a very troubled life. I

0:44:17.520 --> 0:44:19.319
<v Speaker 7>don't want to speak too much on it, but she

0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:22.160
<v Speaker 7>had been trapped before she even met Epstein. And and

0:44:22.560 --> 0:44:27.239
<v Speaker 7>she had difficulties with her family and also with her

0:44:27.320 --> 0:44:29.719
<v Speaker 7>husband until anyway, I think it all got to be

0:44:29.800 --> 0:44:32.120
<v Speaker 7>too much, especially with a big lawsuit that was going

0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:35.440
<v Speaker 7>on after Epstein passed away. I don't want to get

0:44:35.440 --> 0:44:37.719
<v Speaker 7>into that either, but I just I just know she

0:44:37.840 --> 0:44:40.960
<v Speaker 7>had personal problems and some health problems, and I feel

0:44:41.000 --> 0:44:44.120
<v Speaker 7>like it just all became too much for her. And that's,

0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:48.000
<v Speaker 7>you know, really sad. There's been some drug overdoses with

0:44:48.000 --> 0:44:52.839
<v Speaker 7>with Epstein, you know victims, and there's certainly there. All

0:44:52.880 --> 0:44:56.000
<v Speaker 7>of them are continually, you know, a work in progress.

0:44:56.280 --> 0:44:59.680
<v Speaker 7>Trauma you know, presents itself in different forms. There's triggers

0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:02.200
<v Speaker 7>all the time. Time This DOJ report I know, I'm

0:45:02.200 --> 0:45:04.879
<v Speaker 7>speaking to a couple who I stay in touch with,

0:45:05.320 --> 0:45:07.640
<v Speaker 7>is very triggering for them to hear that, and then

0:45:07.680 --> 0:45:09.759
<v Speaker 7>it's really just another slap to them.

0:45:10.920 --> 0:45:13.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, how could it not be. And anyone, you know,

0:45:13.320 --> 0:45:15.920
<v Speaker 2>anyone even listening who's been you know, subjected to any

0:45:16.000 --> 0:45:18.120
<v Speaker 2>kind of abuse, you know how hard it must be

0:45:18.160 --> 0:45:20.840
<v Speaker 2>to have to actually raise your hand and say this happened.

0:45:20.960 --> 0:45:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Number one, the idea that nobody will believe you, and

0:45:24.000 --> 0:45:27.200
<v Speaker 2>then maybe more significantly, like we see in those that

0:45:27.200 --> 0:45:29.560
<v Speaker 2>were brave enough to appear in your documentary and kind

0:45:29.560 --> 0:45:34.399
<v Speaker 2>of face their monsters while in court with cameras on them,

0:45:34.440 --> 0:45:37.279
<v Speaker 2>in the media pressures, et cetera. You know, they get

0:45:37.320 --> 0:45:41.160
<v Speaker 2>made out to be you know, trash yet again. And

0:45:41.400 --> 0:45:44.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, men like this who are grooming young women,

0:45:44.520 --> 0:45:45.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, they're looking for the ones that are the

0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:48.200
<v Speaker 2>most vulnerable. That makes you the best target, right, the

0:45:48.200 --> 0:45:50.839
<v Speaker 2>ones that are going through it or maybe have had

0:45:50.880 --> 0:45:55.480
<v Speaker 2>bad experiences in the past, and the self doubt, et cetera.

0:45:55.520 --> 0:45:58.120
<v Speaker 2>I always thought it was strange though, would you just

0:45:58.600 --> 0:46:01.280
<v Speaker 2>right before Virginia do freight her life back in April

0:46:01.640 --> 0:46:04.080
<v Speaker 2>I think it was maybe a month prior to that,

0:46:04.840 --> 0:46:08.480
<v Speaker 2>there was this incident where she was in a bus accident,

0:46:08.760 --> 0:46:11.480
<v Speaker 2>and then she had posted some photographs of herself with

0:46:11.520 --> 0:46:13.560
<v Speaker 2>a black and blue eye. Do you guys remember this?

0:46:14.120 --> 0:46:16.520
<v Speaker 2>And then the people that were also on the bus

0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:19.080
<v Speaker 2>with her that were like Taurus or something said, eh,

0:46:19.080 --> 0:46:21.319
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't really much of a bus accident. It all

0:46:21.360 --> 0:46:25.040
<v Speaker 2>seems so strange now again my Spidey sense and you know,

0:46:25.480 --> 0:46:28.080
<v Speaker 2>everybody raised there like this might maybe sound a little

0:46:28.080 --> 0:46:30.480
<v Speaker 2>out there. And Lisa, I'm pretty sure I texted you

0:46:30.560 --> 0:46:33.680
<v Speaker 2>that morning of like, listen, this all seems a little fishy.

0:46:33.760 --> 0:46:37.480
<v Speaker 2>No that suddenly here we are the DOJ is saying, nope,

0:46:37.560 --> 0:46:40.480
<v Speaker 2>take it back. Nothing to see here. That list never existed.

0:46:40.600 --> 0:46:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, the main loudest victim who's essentially the face

0:46:44.680 --> 0:46:47.759
<v Speaker 2>of this Epstein trial. Oh, what a coincidence. Just a

0:46:47.800 --> 0:46:49.680
<v Speaker 2>couple months ago she took her own life. Oh and

0:46:49.760 --> 0:46:52.480
<v Speaker 2>there was that weird incident right before that in your

0:46:52.520 --> 0:46:54.719
<v Speaker 2>heart because I know you went to the memorial. Does

0:46:54.719 --> 0:46:58.320
<v Speaker 2>that track or is that just I'm chasing a ghost?

0:47:00.200 --> 0:47:03.680
<v Speaker 7>You know? Unlike the Epstein suicide, I do think he

0:47:04.600 --> 0:47:07.960
<v Speaker 7>sadly did take her own life because of her husband

0:47:08.840 --> 0:47:12.280
<v Speaker 7>is alleged to be an abuser. You know that it's

0:47:12.520 --> 0:47:15.560
<v Speaker 7>not untypical for people to kind of land in the

0:47:15.680 --> 0:47:17.719
<v Speaker 7>hands of someone. She's been married to for a very

0:47:17.719 --> 0:47:22.319
<v Speaker 7>long time, but allegedly he was abused towards her, and

0:47:22.360 --> 0:47:26.720
<v Speaker 7>he took her children away, and I think that became

0:47:26.800 --> 0:47:28.520
<v Speaker 7>too much for her, And I don know, I don't.

0:47:28.560 --> 0:47:30.279
<v Speaker 7>I don't want to comment on the whole bus thing

0:47:30.360 --> 0:47:32.200
<v Speaker 7>because I think there it was more of a personal

0:47:32.239 --> 0:47:34.000
<v Speaker 7>thing that was going on with her and her husband

0:47:34.080 --> 0:47:38.239
<v Speaker 7>that understand had to deal with that, and it's nobody's you.

0:47:38.200 --> 0:47:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Know, nobody's business, so that it is kind of just

0:47:42.480 --> 0:47:45.879
<v Speaker 2>a it's very sad, and our hearts would go out

0:47:45.880 --> 0:47:47.520
<v Speaker 2>to her. I mean, it was very brave for her

0:47:47.560 --> 0:47:50.480
<v Speaker 2>to speak up, and our hope is that victims continue

0:47:50.520 --> 0:47:53.399
<v Speaker 2>to do so because it's really hard to get justice

0:47:53.480 --> 0:47:53.919
<v Speaker 2>out there.

0:47:54.280 --> 0:47:56.600
<v Speaker 7>It isn't Sometimes I will just want to point out that,

0:47:57.080 --> 0:48:00.879
<v Speaker 7>you know, over time, memories change or things come out

0:48:00.920 --> 0:48:03.760
<v Speaker 7>that you you know, as we know, you block things

0:48:03.800 --> 0:48:07.759
<v Speaker 7>out and protect any of these things you do, and

0:48:07.800 --> 0:48:11.520
<v Speaker 7>sometimes these and any stories are they're not stories, but

0:48:11.600 --> 0:48:15.200
<v Speaker 7>these incidents happened a long time ago, decades for some people,

0:48:15.360 --> 0:48:19.600
<v Speaker 7>so you know, details might be a little sketchy, or

0:48:19.640 --> 0:48:21.480
<v Speaker 7>they forgot something, or they told the story just a

0:48:21.560 --> 0:48:25.040
<v Speaker 7>slightly different. At the core, trafficking is trafficking, and they

0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:27.960
<v Speaker 7>were were trafficked, whether it was on this date or

0:48:27.960 --> 0:48:30.920
<v Speaker 7>that date, or they were this age in three months,

0:48:30.920 --> 0:48:33.480
<v Speaker 7>in this age in two months. But at the core,

0:48:33.640 --> 0:48:36.680
<v Speaker 7>you know, we have to listen to victims and and

0:48:37.200 --> 0:48:41.560
<v Speaker 7>you know and believe them, you know, for for at

0:48:41.600 --> 0:48:44.920
<v Speaker 7>the heart of what they're saying is true. And I

0:48:44.920 --> 0:48:48.719
<v Speaker 7>think unfortunately in this case, in particular, it was very

0:48:48.719 --> 0:48:52.399
<v Speaker 7>difficult because of the power dynamic was so skew and

0:48:52.719 --> 0:48:56.200
<v Speaker 7>these you know, wealthy, mostly white powerful men you know,

0:48:56.600 --> 0:49:01.399
<v Speaker 7>all held so much over their heads, right right, Oh my.

0:49:01.400 --> 0:49:04.839
<v Speaker 2>Gosh, yeah, like having you hear Lisa. First of all,

0:49:04.920 --> 0:49:06.239
<v Speaker 2>thank you. I know we kind of kept you so

0:49:06.320 --> 0:49:09.560
<v Speaker 2>much longer than maybe you anticipated. But you know, these

0:49:09.600 --> 0:49:11.680
<v Speaker 2>next couple of days, there's been some you know, new

0:49:11.719 --> 0:49:14.440
<v Speaker 2>developments in the news even right now, so all of

0:49:14.480 --> 0:49:18.600
<v Speaker 2>this is really significant context to the idea of hey,

0:49:18.760 --> 0:49:20.520
<v Speaker 2>like you know, we actually as we're talking about this,

0:49:20.560 --> 0:49:22.600
<v Speaker 2>we have to talk back about it right now. Hi.

0:49:22.719 --> 0:49:23.880
<v Speaker 9>So, yes, I have a question.

0:49:24.760 --> 0:49:29.319
<v Speaker 5>If we know some of the victims, why can't we

0:49:29.400 --> 0:49:31.480
<v Speaker 5>just go to the victims directly and ask them to

0:49:31.520 --> 0:49:35.359
<v Speaker 5>self report who their perpetrator was and get the list

0:49:35.400 --> 0:49:38.280
<v Speaker 5>that way instead of waiting for the Department of Justice

0:49:38.400 --> 0:49:42.919
<v Speaker 5>to release this list if it exists. Thanks so much.

0:49:43.680 --> 0:49:46.759
<v Speaker 2>What a great question, great, great, great question. Thank you

0:49:46.800 --> 0:49:48.440
<v Speaker 2>for that, Lisa.

0:49:48.480 --> 0:49:51.240
<v Speaker 7>What do you say to that, Well, she's saying she'd

0:49:51.920 --> 0:49:54.799
<v Speaker 7>get this straight. She knows some of the victims, And

0:49:54.880 --> 0:49:56.400
<v Speaker 7>if she knows some of the victims, why don't they

0:49:56.440 --> 0:49:58.200
<v Speaker 7>self report who the list is?

0:49:58.560 --> 0:50:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Like meaning we're all like waiting for the DOJ

0:50:01.239 --> 0:50:03.640
<v Speaker 2>to release it, and it's like, oh, the FBI the

0:50:03.680 --> 0:50:06.000
<v Speaker 2>list of redacted list. But if we know the list

0:50:06.040 --> 0:50:09.120
<v Speaker 2>of victims and those victims know who their perpetrators were,

0:50:09.400 --> 0:50:09.719
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:50:10.160 --> 0:50:13.080
<v Speaker 7>Well they do and they don't. I think I think, yeah, well,

0:50:13.200 --> 0:50:16.399
<v Speaker 7>I think some people have told people who they were

0:50:16.440 --> 0:50:19.360
<v Speaker 7>who they felt comfortable saying. But some people are afraid

0:50:19.400 --> 0:50:23.080
<v Speaker 7>to mention these powerful people's names because they were threatened.

0:50:24.080 --> 0:50:27.480
<v Speaker 7>Some find NDA's and see that scene successfully back in

0:50:27.680 --> 0:50:30.520
<v Speaker 7>you know, a long time ago, somewhat successfully there were

0:50:30.560 --> 0:50:31.560
<v Speaker 7>conditions on some.

0:50:31.600 --> 0:50:32.800
<v Speaker 9>Of the shoots.

0:50:32.800 --> 0:50:36.319
<v Speaker 7>But I think they're afraid. And again, I don't think

0:50:36.840 --> 0:50:39.759
<v Speaker 7>their list might be one person, and I you know

0:50:40.320 --> 0:50:42.600
<v Speaker 7>a lot of times they weren't. You know, not everybody

0:50:42.640 --> 0:50:44.680
<v Speaker 7>was a famous person either. There were just a lot

0:50:44.719 --> 0:50:47.160
<v Speaker 7>of john you know, they might still have been wealthy,

0:50:47.200 --> 0:50:51.880
<v Speaker 7>but maybe they're not, you know, CEO, you know, presidential whatever,

0:50:52.080 --> 0:50:54.799
<v Speaker 7>you know, famous. Yeah, saying is like.

0:50:55.120 --> 0:50:58.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like even though I'll say it because Bill Gates's

0:50:58.120 --> 0:51:01.399
<v Speaker 2>wife has said it anywhere up down in sideways that

0:51:01.520 --> 0:51:04.880
<v Speaker 2>you know the reason that she claims that she divorced

0:51:04.880 --> 0:51:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Bill Gates and again allegedly, allegedly allegedly is because of

0:51:08.000 --> 0:51:11.160
<v Speaker 2>his very close connection to Epstein and his constantly going

0:51:11.200 --> 0:51:13.440
<v Speaker 2>to the island, like she has said that everywhere. So

0:51:13.719 --> 0:51:16.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, these are big names. Again, we don't know

0:51:16.000 --> 0:51:18.640
<v Speaker 2>if that's accurate. What happens behind closed doors, who knows.

0:51:18.800 --> 0:51:21.759
<v Speaker 2>But like again, these are very people who are influencing

0:51:21.800 --> 0:51:24.080
<v Speaker 2>our world in a very meaningful way. You know. The

0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:28.239
<v Speaker 2>idea that they're coming together and that perhaps there's blackmail

0:51:28.320 --> 0:51:31.560
<v Speaker 2>being used at times when there are very big world

0:51:31.560 --> 0:51:35.200
<v Speaker 2>decisions being made is very unsettling. So it's important for

0:51:35.840 --> 0:51:38.200
<v Speaker 2>it's important for us to get some answers. So what

0:51:38.200 --> 0:51:39.480
<v Speaker 2>do you think is going to happen in the in

0:51:39.520 --> 0:51:42.319
<v Speaker 2>the in the coming days. We have only two minutes left,

0:51:42.360 --> 0:51:46.920
<v Speaker 2>so the the briefest answer to what happens tomorrow in

0:51:46.960 --> 0:51:48.279
<v Speaker 2>the news, what are we waking up to?

0:51:49.239 --> 0:51:49.439
<v Speaker 9>Oh?

0:51:49.480 --> 0:51:51.799
<v Speaker 7>Good, well, I wonder if I mean, you know, there

0:51:51.880 --> 0:51:56.480
<v Speaker 7>was this little fat tiff between you know, Pambondi, the

0:51:56.520 --> 0:52:01.719
<v Speaker 7>Attorney General and then the deputy FBI director on Friday,

0:52:01.880 --> 0:52:07.200
<v Speaker 7>who's upset that he feels like he didn't handle things properly.

0:52:07.520 --> 0:52:11.600
<v Speaker 7>Dan's on Gino. You know they I guess there was

0:52:11.600 --> 0:52:14.400
<v Speaker 7>a risk and all out yelling and screaming war so

0:52:14.560 --> 0:52:16.919
<v Speaker 7>he didn't show actually didn't happen on Friday. He didn't

0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:19.560
<v Speaker 7>show up to work on Friday and said he was

0:52:19.640 --> 0:52:22.520
<v Speaker 7>thinking about quitting. Uh, so it happened a couple of

0:52:22.560 --> 0:52:26.000
<v Speaker 7>days prior to that. But he thinks, you know, she

0:52:26.000 --> 0:52:28.080
<v Speaker 7>she made a mess of it. The DJ made a

0:52:28.080 --> 0:52:31.759
<v Speaker 7>mess of it, and you know it's I don't necessarily

0:52:31.800 --> 0:52:33.920
<v Speaker 7>think it's all her fault. And she's in a position

0:52:33.960 --> 0:52:37.120
<v Speaker 7>where she is just there almost like as an acting.

0:52:38.400 --> 0:52:38.720
<v Speaker 4>Flack.

0:52:38.840 --> 0:52:41.719
<v Speaker 7>Really she just has to do and say whatever you know,

0:52:41.800 --> 0:52:44.200
<v Speaker 7>her boss is saying, no matter how high up, whether

0:52:44.239 --> 0:52:47.440
<v Speaker 7>it's from Trump himself or just below, she just has

0:52:47.480 --> 0:52:49.319
<v Speaker 7>to do what they say. So I think she kind

0:52:49.320 --> 0:52:52.320
<v Speaker 7>of got caught in the middle, uh and cotied and

0:52:52.320 --> 0:52:55.680
<v Speaker 7>and uh maybe yeah, she didn't handle it great. But

0:52:55.719 --> 0:52:59.320
<v Speaker 7>I also think she was put in a really precarious position.

0:53:00.480 --> 0:53:02.400
<v Speaker 7>So I think that'll be interesting to see if it

0:53:02.480 --> 0:53:05.879
<v Speaker 7>causes a big shakeup, because I don't with the one

0:53:05.960 --> 0:53:08.640
<v Speaker 7>quick setter. And what's really interesting though, is that I

0:53:08.680 --> 0:53:12.000
<v Speaker 7>think before Dan Bongino got his job at the FBI,

0:53:12.120 --> 0:53:16.640
<v Speaker 7>and the same with the FBI director cash to tell Na,

0:53:16.840 --> 0:53:17.239
<v Speaker 7>Thank you.

0:53:17.120 --> 0:53:18.279
<v Speaker 4>So much for joining us today.

0:53:18.280 --> 0:53:20.680
<v Speaker 3>Your dedication to this case and getting justice for the

0:53:20.760 --> 0:53:22.759
<v Speaker 3>victims is something we should all be living up to.

0:53:22.920 --> 0:53:25.439
<v Speaker 3>Those interested in seeing Lisa's work and learning more about

0:53:25.440 --> 0:53:28.600
<v Speaker 3>the Epstein and Maxwell case watch her incredible documentaries on

0:53:28.640 --> 0:53:31.160
<v Speaker 3>Netflix stay right here True Crime Tonight, where we're talking

0:53:31.200 --> 0:53:32.399
<v Speaker 3>true crime all the time.

0:53:32.760 --> 0:53:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Our very favorite forensics expert, host of Body Bags, Joseph

0:53:36.960 --> 0:53:41.439
<v Speaker 2>Scott Morgan joins us again. We're talking Epstein, So he's

0:53:41.480 --> 0:53:44.839
<v Speaker 2>going to weigh in on was he killed or did

0:53:44.840 --> 0:53:47.239
<v Speaker 2>he kill himself? So Courtney Armstrong, you want to fill

0:53:47.320 --> 0:53:48.239
<v Speaker 2>us in a little bit on the.

0:53:48.200 --> 0:53:54.200
<v Speaker 6>Backstory, Absolutely so, Jeffrey Epstein, who has been EveryWare in

0:53:54.239 --> 0:53:58.040
<v Speaker 6>the news. A newly released FBI and Apartment of Justice

0:53:58.040 --> 0:54:03.160
<v Speaker 6>memo is reaffirmed Epstein died by suicide in twenty nineteen

0:54:03.480 --> 0:54:08.080
<v Speaker 6>and also that no client list ever existed, so.

0:54:08.040 --> 0:54:09.120
<v Speaker 4>That has been released.

0:54:09.760 --> 0:54:14.400
<v Speaker 6>This has sparked calls for Pam Bondi's replacement, she's the

0:54:14.440 --> 0:54:18.359
<v Speaker 6>Attorney General. The controversy has gone deeper. There has been

0:54:18.360 --> 0:54:23.080
<v Speaker 6>the emergence of a wild missing minute off of the

0:54:23.120 --> 0:54:28.360
<v Speaker 6>prison CCTV Close caption TV footage which alleged to show

0:54:28.480 --> 0:54:33.480
<v Speaker 6>outside of Jeffrey Epstein's cell, and Bondi explains that this

0:54:33.600 --> 0:54:37.680
<v Speaker 6>was due to quote, outdated equipment, but it doesn't make

0:54:37.680 --> 0:54:39.960
<v Speaker 6>any sense, and then she further doubled down on this

0:54:40.280 --> 0:54:41.760
<v Speaker 6>wildly missing minute.

0:54:42.040 --> 0:54:44.480
<v Speaker 4>Well, in the metadata, yeah, it shows us that it's

0:54:44.520 --> 0:54:45.040
<v Speaker 4>been edited.

0:54:45.080 --> 0:54:48.840
<v Speaker 3>It's two videos spliced together, and the aspect ratio changes

0:54:48.840 --> 0:54:51.960
<v Speaker 3>in this video like it it gets bigger, it's it's

0:54:52.200 --> 0:54:53.040
<v Speaker 3>it's pretty wild.

0:54:53.080 --> 0:54:56.240
<v Speaker 6>Actually, well, according to the Attorney General, do not believe

0:54:56.280 --> 0:54:58.440
<v Speaker 6>your lie in eyes because the words out of her

0:54:58.480 --> 0:55:02.479
<v Speaker 6>mouth were apparently in this prison, every time it gets

0:55:02.480 --> 0:55:03.759
<v Speaker 6>almost near midnight.

0:55:03.440 --> 0:55:04.640
<v Speaker 4>We lose a minute of tape.

0:55:05.040 --> 0:55:08.840
<v Speaker 6>So anyway, that is what has been recently, just in

0:55:08.880 --> 0:55:11.680
<v Speaker 6>the past couple of days given out, which all leads

0:55:11.760 --> 0:55:16.440
<v Speaker 6>us to forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan being here to

0:55:16.600 --> 0:55:22.480
<v Speaker 6>talk about the suicide question mark. Joseph Scott Morgan, host

0:55:22.680 --> 0:55:26.240
<v Speaker 6>of the wildly successful podcast Body Bags.

0:55:26.520 --> 0:55:29.680
<v Speaker 9>How are you I'm doing well? How are you guys doing.

0:55:29.719 --> 0:55:30.640
<v Speaker 4>Better now that you're here?

0:55:30.840 --> 0:55:34.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I can't see Joseph right now. Joseph Scott Morgan,

0:55:34.400 --> 0:55:37.879
<v Speaker 2>forensics expert of greatness, is as tan as they get.

0:55:38.000 --> 0:55:39.640
<v Speaker 4>It looks like he just got off the yacht.

0:55:39.800 --> 0:55:42.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, did you just roll straight from Malibu right to

0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:44.600
<v Speaker 2>Fantasy Island also known as.

0:55:47.200 --> 0:55:49.400
<v Speaker 9>No you know? And I have for INDs that accusing

0:55:49.560 --> 0:55:51.960
<v Speaker 9>you lay in the tanning bed and I'm like, no,

0:55:52.560 --> 0:55:54.840
<v Speaker 9>I really don't. I just I've got a boat. I

0:55:54.920 --> 0:55:57.160
<v Speaker 9>just got out of my boat when I can. It's

0:55:57.200 --> 0:55:57.840
<v Speaker 9>my therapy.

0:55:58.239 --> 0:56:00.879
<v Speaker 2>It's right at summer, A lot better than the.

0:56:00.880 --> 0:56:03.600
<v Speaker 9>People that I'm doing, a lot better than the staff

0:56:03.640 --> 0:56:06.719
<v Speaker 9>that the Justice Department are doing right now. And hearing

0:56:06.760 --> 0:56:11.520
<v Speaker 9>don't see that, and you know, so I don't know. Look,

0:56:11.560 --> 0:56:14.640
<v Speaker 9>I've been going around around about Estein for all these

0:56:14.719 --> 0:56:17.319
<v Speaker 9>years now, since it came out of I first covered this.

0:56:17.440 --> 0:56:21.239
<v Speaker 9>I'll never forget. It was on a Sunday morning. I

0:56:21.400 --> 0:56:25.719
<v Speaker 9>was live on air in Atlanta on HLN and there

0:56:25.719 --> 0:56:28.560
<v Speaker 9>it began. And I haven't quit since then. And so

0:56:28.760 --> 0:56:33.279
<v Speaker 9>I have never help that his injuries were consistent with

0:56:33.400 --> 0:56:38.359
<v Speaker 9>the suicide. It's just there are too many inconsistencies. And

0:56:38.400 --> 0:56:42.080
<v Speaker 9>it's one of the most facile arguments I've heard, I

0:56:42.120 --> 0:56:45.080
<v Speaker 9>think in forensics in some time to try to get

0:56:45.320 --> 0:56:47.640
<v Speaker 9>us to buy into that. People are tired of being

0:56:47.680 --> 0:56:54.000
<v Speaker 9>treated like we're stupid and you know and just you

0:56:54.040 --> 0:56:58.440
<v Speaker 9>know when you look at the injuries that he sustained,

0:56:58.640 --> 0:57:02.360
<v Speaker 9>these injuries involve what's in the big question here is

0:57:02.400 --> 0:57:05.400
<v Speaker 9>the highwaid bone, which for you guys that don't know,

0:57:05.480 --> 0:57:08.919
<v Speaker 9>the hyoid bone. If you go superior anatomically, if you'll

0:57:08.920 --> 0:57:13.080
<v Speaker 9>find the cartilage and centered your throat and go up

0:57:13.280 --> 0:57:16.400
<v Speaker 9>like in mails where the Adams apple is really protuberant,

0:57:16.760 --> 0:57:21.080
<v Speaker 9>goes superior to that, that's where the highwaid is. And

0:57:21.160 --> 0:57:23.680
<v Speaker 9>it shaped some people say it's shaped like a bird.

0:57:23.840 --> 0:57:27.080
<v Speaker 9>Some people will use the term horsehoe. It's the only

0:57:27.280 --> 0:57:31.040
<v Speaker 9>non articulating bone in human body, and what that means

0:57:31.120 --> 0:57:34.919
<v Speaker 9>is that it doesn't communicate with any other bones. Its

0:57:35.040 --> 0:57:38.160
<v Speaker 9>sole purpose is to anchor the tongue in the back

0:57:38.200 --> 0:57:40.840
<v Speaker 9>of the throat, the only reason it's there. In the

0:57:40.920 --> 0:57:43.320
<v Speaker 9>course of my career, and again I've only got one

0:57:43.400 --> 0:57:47.160
<v Speaker 9>little slice, okay, of my career, my experiences, I have

0:57:47.280 --> 0:57:52.160
<v Speaker 9>only seen one case where the highwid was fractured, and

0:57:52.520 --> 0:57:57.000
<v Speaker 9>it was non homicidally related, and it was a car

0:57:57.040 --> 0:58:01.120
<v Speaker 9>crash where God went over a three story high off

0:58:01.200 --> 0:58:03.880
<v Speaker 9>ramp on itent and hit the top of the steering

0:58:03.880 --> 0:58:06.400
<v Speaker 9>wheel and like a nineteen sixty eight Plantiac at the

0:58:06.440 --> 0:58:10.520
<v Speaker 9>twelve o'clock position hit him in the throat, his highway.

0:58:11.640 --> 0:58:16.040
<v Speaker 9>Epstein's the greater horn. It's got two horns, the greater

0:58:16.240 --> 0:58:19.920
<v Speaker 9>well'scot four actually the greater and the lesser corner, and

0:58:20.080 --> 0:58:24.080
<v Speaker 9>they're actually horns. The one on the right side is

0:58:24.120 --> 0:58:28.520
<v Speaker 9>the one that is fractured. And in addition to that,

0:58:28.600 --> 0:58:31.600
<v Speaker 9>what makes it even more screwy is the fact that

0:58:32.400 --> 0:58:37.400
<v Speaker 9>the cartilage in the layernix is fractured as well. It's

0:58:37.440 --> 0:58:42.280
<v Speaker 9>not simply the highwaid. So you've got several things at

0:58:42.400 --> 0:58:46.600
<v Speaker 9>work here. Some people have talked about, well, at the

0:58:46.920 --> 0:58:49.760
<v Speaker 9>hues at it could have been ossified and it would

0:58:49.840 --> 0:58:52.640
<v Speaker 9>not have taken as much pressure, you know, with a

0:58:52.680 --> 0:58:55.120
<v Speaker 9>ligature if he had to sing tied around his neck,

0:58:55.800 --> 0:58:59.080
<v Speaker 9>and that you know, it essentially injured this area in

0:58:59.160 --> 0:59:02.680
<v Speaker 9>his neck. And I just I don't buy it. I

0:59:02.720 --> 0:59:06.400
<v Speaker 9>don't buy it, you know. I think even in judicial hanges,

0:59:07.560 --> 0:59:10.120
<v Speaker 9>you know where you know, you have these state sanctioned

0:59:10.120 --> 0:59:12.360
<v Speaker 9>hanes where people will fall from a great height and

0:59:12.400 --> 0:59:16.280
<v Speaker 9>it's calculated. You generally don't get fractured hyoids. It's so

0:59:16.480 --> 0:59:18.800
<v Speaker 9>high up in the throat, you have to reach so

0:59:19.040 --> 0:59:22.280
<v Speaker 9>high to do it that it's I'm not going to

0:59:22.280 --> 0:59:26.160
<v Speaker 9>say it's completely implausible, but if I were a betting man,

0:59:27.400 --> 0:59:30.520
<v Speaker 9>I would listen more towards something other than suicide.

0:59:30.680 --> 0:59:33.480
<v Speaker 4>Well, especially where the ligature mark is right. It's lower

0:59:33.560 --> 0:59:36.560
<v Speaker 4>on his neck than it than it.

0:59:36.360 --> 0:59:40.800
<v Speaker 9>Is it is. And here's another thing that will really

0:59:40.800 --> 0:59:44.600
<v Speaker 9>blow people's hairback about the ligature mark and listen. This

0:59:44.600 --> 0:59:48.080
<v Speaker 9>stuff is all available online. CBS published this in their

0:59:48.120 --> 0:59:50.560
<v Speaker 9>sixty Minutes Report from so I think it's back in

0:59:50.640 --> 0:59:53.880
<v Speaker 9>eighteen or whenever it was. If you look at the

0:59:53.920 --> 0:59:56.920
<v Speaker 9>profile picture and when I say not like profile on

0:59:57.160 --> 0:59:59.840
<v Speaker 9>you know, social media, I'm talking about like in profile

1:00:00.200 --> 1:00:00.800
<v Speaker 9>sad shot.

1:00:00.920 --> 1:00:01.760
<v Speaker 4>I'm looking at it right now.

1:00:01.760 --> 1:00:04.840
<v Speaker 9>There's an image of Epstein laying laying flat on his

1:00:04.960 --> 1:00:08.360
<v Speaker 9>back in a soup time position, and you can see

1:00:08.520 --> 1:00:12.320
<v Speaker 9>the abraided area that runs from the front of the

1:00:12.360 --> 1:00:14.720
<v Speaker 9>neck all the way to the back. Look at that

1:00:14.880 --> 1:00:19.480
<v Speaker 9>very closely, as you can see that mark does not

1:00:20.200 --> 1:00:24.040
<v Speaker 9>go upwards. There's something in in in hangings that we

1:00:24.200 --> 1:00:28.280
<v Speaker 9>look for in forensics that's referred to as tinting feature

1:00:28.400 --> 1:00:31.680
<v Speaker 9>spelled T E N T I n G not like

1:00:31.960 --> 1:00:34.560
<v Speaker 9>T I like tinting in a window tinting like a

1:00:34.600 --> 1:00:38.800
<v Speaker 9>pup tint, So what you're looking at is the pup

1:00:38.880 --> 1:00:43.240
<v Speaker 9>tint going up in the air. It doesn't make sense,

1:00:43.800 --> 1:00:48.720
<v Speaker 9>it's right, Yeah, it runs parallel to the shoulder. Another

1:00:48.800 --> 1:00:51.920
<v Speaker 9>thing also that has that has bothered me about this.

1:00:52.040 --> 1:00:57.120
<v Speaker 9>He's got this pretty significant contusion at the at the

1:00:57.200 --> 1:01:01.560
<v Speaker 9>on the postier aspect of his neck. It's on the backside,

1:01:01.600 --> 1:01:05.760
<v Speaker 9>so the posterior involving like the shoulder right there, there's

1:01:06.080 --> 1:01:08.240
<v Speaker 9>you know, I don't know if it looks like I

1:01:08.240 --> 1:01:10.640
<v Speaker 9>don't have an exact measurement because I didn't I can't

1:01:10.680 --> 1:01:14.000
<v Speaker 9>remember if there's a scale on it, but approximation out there,

1:01:14.000 --> 1:01:17.440
<v Speaker 9>it looks like it's about too maybe two inches in

1:01:17.520 --> 1:01:20.360
<v Speaker 9>the greatest link by maybe about an inch and a

1:01:20.480 --> 1:01:24.160
<v Speaker 9>quarter and w what what's up with that? Because that's

1:01:24.160 --> 1:01:26.760
<v Speaker 9>the contusion. You know what that means. That means that

1:01:26.880 --> 1:01:29.000
<v Speaker 9>happened in live So it's not like a.

1:01:28.960 --> 1:01:31.280
<v Speaker 4>Post of some kind.

1:01:31.680 --> 1:01:33.640
<v Speaker 9>Yeah maybe I mean perfect.

1:01:33.360 --> 1:01:34.360
<v Speaker 4>Folks who haven't seen it.

1:01:34.400 --> 1:01:37.040
<v Speaker 3>The ligature mark to me, Joseph, and I'm a leman,

1:01:37.520 --> 1:01:40.720
<v Speaker 3>Joseph's the expert. But to me, it looks like if

1:01:40.800 --> 1:01:44.240
<v Speaker 3>if this was his cause of death, like somebody from

1:01:44.280 --> 1:01:47.760
<v Speaker 3>behind him, because it goes straight across. There's not there's

1:01:47.800 --> 1:01:50.600
<v Speaker 3>no that tinting that you were talking about, like an assassin,

1:01:51.120 --> 1:01:53.000
<v Speaker 3>like an assassin right like.

1:01:53.080 --> 1:01:53.640
<v Speaker 2>Coming up.

1:01:56.240 --> 1:01:59.520
<v Speaker 9>Right, yeah, groat or grot on, you know where you

1:01:59.560 --> 1:02:03.120
<v Speaker 9>hail for. But yeah, it kind of looks that way.

1:02:03.200 --> 1:02:05.800
<v Speaker 9>And the other thing is is that, you know the

1:02:06.480 --> 1:02:09.960
<v Speaker 9>the jailer's actually said, whatever the hell they call himself

1:02:10.120 --> 1:02:14.600
<v Speaker 9>jailer's correction, I don't care whatever you know they said.

1:02:14.880 --> 1:02:17.400
<v Speaker 9>The guy that discovered the body said, I cut the

1:02:17.520 --> 1:02:20.840
<v Speaker 9>noose off. Well, there was two ligatures, two tied nooses

1:02:21.000 --> 1:02:23.320
<v Speaker 9>on the floor in his cell, which, by the way,

1:02:23.400 --> 1:02:26.200
<v Speaker 9>the cell is like a pig style. It looks like

1:02:26.400 --> 1:02:28.600
<v Speaker 9>a hog waller. When you look at this thing, this

1:02:28.760 --> 1:02:32.040
<v Speaker 9>shredded material all over the wear, you know, all over

1:02:32.080 --> 1:02:35.720
<v Speaker 9>the place. You know, you always imagine, you know, shawshank

1:02:35.760 --> 1:02:38.360
<v Speaker 9>where the things are like really neat. It looks like

1:02:38.680 --> 1:02:43.360
<v Speaker 9>he's living. It looks like squalid conditions, mattresses on the floor,

1:02:43.400 --> 1:02:47.520
<v Speaker 9>there's pill bottles everywhere. It's chaos in there. If he

1:02:47.640 --> 1:02:50.520
<v Speaker 9>fell from a height to generate that kind of injury

1:02:50.560 --> 1:02:54.240
<v Speaker 9>on his neck, I don't think that there's sufficient there's

1:02:54.280 --> 1:02:57.720
<v Speaker 9>not enough altitude for him to have jumped from, even

1:02:57.760 --> 1:03:00.360
<v Speaker 9>if you think that he's perched from the top bunk,

1:03:01.080 --> 1:03:03.280
<v Speaker 9>which by the way, doesn't have a mattress on it,

1:03:03.560 --> 1:03:05.560
<v Speaker 9>jumped off of that and then fell to the floor

1:03:05.600 --> 1:03:08.720
<v Speaker 9>and snapped his neck or broke his hyoid, not snapped

1:03:08.720 --> 1:03:13.320
<v Speaker 9>his neck the vertebra or intact. It just doesn't. And

1:03:13.800 --> 1:03:17.000
<v Speaker 9>plus the material that you're talking about, both of those

1:03:17.440 --> 1:03:20.919
<v Speaker 9>those nooses quote unquote I'm using air quotes right now,

1:03:22.240 --> 1:03:25.439
<v Speaker 9>they show no evidence of tool marks on them where

1:03:25.480 --> 1:03:29.280
<v Speaker 9>they have quote unquote been cut. And this also factors

1:03:29.320 --> 1:03:34.480
<v Speaker 9>into the corrections officers being less than forthcoming or truthful

1:03:34.560 --> 1:03:37.640
<v Speaker 9>as well, because you got this person that discovers them

1:03:37.680 --> 1:03:40.800
<v Speaker 9>and says, yeah, you know, I cut it off of it. Well,

1:03:41.160 --> 1:03:44.160
<v Speaker 9>are you referring to these nooses that were pre tied,

1:03:44.200 --> 1:03:45.760
<v Speaker 9>that were laying on the floor. Is that what you're

1:03:45.800 --> 1:03:48.400
<v Speaker 9>talking about, because there's no evidence of that as far

1:03:48.440 --> 1:03:50.480
<v Speaker 9>as them being trimmed with a knife in any way.

1:03:50.880 --> 1:03:54.400
<v Speaker 6>Interesting, So do you think when you said that the

1:03:54.640 --> 1:03:56.640
<v Speaker 6>and we don't have a ton of time, but of

1:03:56.640 --> 1:03:59.360
<v Speaker 6>course you will be joining us after, But so do

1:03:59.400 --> 1:04:02.680
<v Speaker 6>you think there is something off or odd about what

1:04:02.720 --> 1:04:05.760
<v Speaker 6>the correctional officers were saying, or that it didn't It

1:04:05.760 --> 1:04:09.040
<v Speaker 6>sounds like it didn't quite match up to the pictures.

1:04:09.720 --> 1:04:12.400
<v Speaker 6>If there's no cut marks on if I'm understanding you,

1:04:12.440 --> 1:04:16.480
<v Speaker 6>if there's no cut marks on any of the fabric,

1:04:16.600 --> 1:04:17.880
<v Speaker 6>then what were they cutting?

1:04:19.560 --> 1:04:21.880
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, I think that that would be my big question.

1:04:21.960 --> 1:04:24.840
<v Speaker 9>If I was sitting across the table from them in

1:04:24.880 --> 1:04:28.200
<v Speaker 9>an interview and I had that evidence and they had

1:04:28.280 --> 1:04:31.480
<v Speaker 9>made that statement, I'd say, look, I want to revisit

1:04:31.560 --> 1:04:34.760
<v Speaker 9>your statement here, because what you're saying doesn't necessarily match

1:04:34.880 --> 1:04:38.040
<v Speaker 9>up with the physical evidence that we found at scene.

1:04:38.160 --> 1:04:41.920
<v Speaker 9>And that's a big piece of evidence because you know, listen,

1:04:42.160 --> 1:04:47.200
<v Speaker 9>the people that arrive on scene in a death investigation,

1:04:47.280 --> 1:04:51.200
<v Speaker 9>the first people that are eyes on the dead body

1:04:51.720 --> 1:04:56.000
<v Speaker 9>are your most crucial witnesses as far as understanding the

1:04:56.120 --> 1:04:59.640
<v Speaker 9>context of the body to the scene, because remember, he

1:04:59.680 --> 1:05:03.240
<v Speaker 9>would us removed from that cell and taken to the

1:05:03.280 --> 1:05:07.400
<v Speaker 9>hospital the emmy investigator, which they took pictures they were

1:05:07.440 --> 1:05:09.680
<v Speaker 9>out there. They didn't see his body at the scene.

1:05:09.840 --> 1:05:11.200
<v Speaker 9>They saw his body in the er.

1:05:12.920 --> 1:05:13.160
<v Speaker 3>Right.

1:05:13.840 --> 1:05:17.880
<v Speaker 6>Oh interesting, Well, listen, stick around. We have a lot

1:05:17.920 --> 1:05:20.160
<v Speaker 6>more we're going to be digging into, and we are

1:05:20.240 --> 1:05:23.280
<v Speaker 6>lucky enough to be doing it with forensic expert Joseph

1:05:23.320 --> 1:05:26.520
<v Speaker 6>Scott Morgan. Listen, we have questions for him. I'm sure

1:05:26.560 --> 1:05:29.600
<v Speaker 6>you do too. Give us a call. Eighty eight three

1:05:29.640 --> 1:05:33.200
<v Speaker 6>to one Crime. We are talking Jeffrey Ebstein. We are

1:05:33.240 --> 1:05:36.680
<v Speaker 6>talking forensics, and we are talking really whatever you want

1:05:36.720 --> 1:05:38.800
<v Speaker 6>to speak about crime wise. If you give us a call,

1:05:39.320 --> 1:05:50.160
<v Speaker 6>keep it here. True Crime Tonight.

1:05:53.320 --> 1:05:56.240
<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1:05:56.320 --> 1:05:58.920
<v Speaker 2>true crime all the time, and we have Joseph Scott Morgan,

1:05:59.000 --> 1:06:02.720
<v Speaker 2>our very own forensics expert who is joining us today. Listen,

1:06:02.840 --> 1:06:05.640
<v Speaker 2>very tan and really blowing our minds about the forensics

1:06:05.640 --> 1:06:10.640
<v Speaker 2>surrounding the Jeffrey Epstein bluruhaha, that's everywhere at this exact moment,

1:06:10.800 --> 1:06:13.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, really the question being, you know that the

1:06:13.160 --> 1:06:16.640
<v Speaker 2>company line has always been that he committed suicide in

1:06:16.640 --> 1:06:20.200
<v Speaker 2>his jail cell. And now that you know, Joseph, you're

1:06:20.200 --> 1:06:22.080
<v Speaker 2>looking at the forensics. There's nobody in the world we

1:06:22.120 --> 1:06:24.520
<v Speaker 2>trust more than you. You know this stuff. You've done

1:06:24.600 --> 1:06:27.760
<v Speaker 2>so many of these cases countless. Frankly, Number one, we

1:06:27.800 --> 1:06:30.320
<v Speaker 2>want to hear more. Number two, like we just want answers,

1:06:30.360 --> 1:06:33.120
<v Speaker 2>like girl hundreds of girls allegedly are being trafficked. And

1:06:33.320 --> 1:06:35.920
<v Speaker 2>this again is not a political thing. We're not trying

1:06:35.920 --> 1:06:39.040
<v Speaker 2>to point fingers, and it's just like it's just stinks

1:06:39.320 --> 1:06:42.320
<v Speaker 2>that we can't get answers and justice for these young women.

1:06:42.600 --> 1:06:46.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, we know that's true. So I digress. We

1:06:46.400 --> 1:06:48.919
<v Speaker 2>have a talkback right now, so we'll go to that first.

1:06:49.240 --> 1:06:50.440
<v Speaker 9>What's up to you, cron tonight?

1:06:50.840 --> 1:06:53.080
<v Speaker 2>I just need to know in each of your opinions,

1:06:53.240 --> 1:06:56.880
<v Speaker 2>yes or no, did Epstein kill himself? This is body

1:06:57.080 --> 1:06:59.800
<v Speaker 2>and I'm going to say no, it's Stephanie, and I'm

1:06:59.800 --> 1:07:00.479
<v Speaker 2>going to say.

1:07:00.480 --> 1:07:03.360
<v Speaker 4>No, Courtney, and I'm unclear.

1:07:04.240 --> 1:07:08.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh safe, Joseph, what's your answer, Joseph. Scott Morgan, By

1:07:08.560 --> 1:07:10.680
<v Speaker 3>the way, what's your answer, Joseph, Based.

1:07:10.440 --> 1:07:13.240
<v Speaker 9>Upon the scientific evidence and cases essen in the past,

1:07:13.280 --> 1:07:15.640
<v Speaker 9>this is not consistent with the suicide, and like.

1:07:15.680 --> 1:07:18.040
<v Speaker 2>What that means, we don't know who. We're not pointing

1:07:18.040 --> 1:07:20.640
<v Speaker 2>a finger, we're not suggesting that somebody came down from

1:07:20.640 --> 1:07:23.280
<v Speaker 2>a helicopter for me in the dead and night and

1:07:23.360 --> 1:07:26.840
<v Speaker 2>like assigning who. But it just sort of stinks that

1:07:26.880 --> 1:07:30.720
<v Speaker 2>it's not being discussed in its full transparency so that

1:07:30.800 --> 1:07:32.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, we can all weigh in and even if

1:07:32.880 --> 1:07:36.360
<v Speaker 2>we're wrong, you know, in court Ney Armstrong, you're really

1:07:36.440 --> 1:07:39.120
<v Speaker 2>quite right. How could it be clear? It's impossible for

1:07:39.120 --> 1:07:41.240
<v Speaker 2>it to be clear because we've heard so many different things,

1:07:41.320 --> 1:07:42.680
<v Speaker 2>right so I hear you.

1:07:42.920 --> 1:07:46.000
<v Speaker 6>We have heard so many things, and I don't know

1:07:46.080 --> 1:07:49.720
<v Speaker 6>I was. I was really on the fence before this,

1:07:50.440 --> 1:07:54.240
<v Speaker 6>you know, statement of there is no client list when

1:07:54.280 --> 1:07:58.120
<v Speaker 6>we said it, of there the metadata of the video

1:07:58.400 --> 1:08:02.880
<v Speaker 6>that actually is inclining me way more towards something absolutely

1:08:03.480 --> 1:08:06.520
<v Speaker 6>nefarious happened. It does not make sense. I mean, it

1:08:07.040 --> 1:08:09.360
<v Speaker 6>doesn't just reek of a cover up. I mean will

1:08:09.400 --> 1:08:11.919
<v Speaker 6>be able soon to say as fact it is from

1:08:11.920 --> 1:08:12.840
<v Speaker 6>whom I don't know.

1:08:13.040 --> 1:08:17.679
<v Speaker 2>But I I looked at metadata all my life, and

1:08:17.960 --> 1:08:22.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, metadata cop BYDK metadata doesn't lie and it doesn't.

1:08:22.400 --> 1:08:24.719
<v Speaker 4>Tell the official story that we're being told by the government.

1:08:25.040 --> 1:08:28.160
<v Speaker 2>And that plus what Joseph has said about the forensics,

1:08:28.560 --> 1:08:31.559
<v Speaker 2>because I believe in science, That's what I believe in.

1:08:31.720 --> 1:08:36.040
<v Speaker 3>That's my higher power, and I just I have to

1:08:36.080 --> 1:08:38.439
<v Speaker 3>trust the science behind this, and that's that he did

1:08:38.439 --> 1:08:39.200
<v Speaker 3>not kill himself.

1:08:39.600 --> 1:08:44.880
<v Speaker 9>And like even the idea, no, I was just gonna say,

1:08:44.880 --> 1:08:48.320
<v Speaker 9>I take exception, you know, I'd mentioned this off air,

1:08:48.479 --> 1:08:51.479
<v Speaker 9>you know, I take exception to people that and the

1:08:51.520 --> 1:08:53.439
<v Speaker 9>news media has run with this because I think that

1:08:53.479 --> 1:08:56.360
<v Speaker 9>they're so used to doing it where they throw it

1:08:56.479 --> 1:08:59.880
<v Speaker 9>the term conspiracy theory. You know, we're not talking about

1:09:00.040 --> 1:09:03.519
<v Speaker 9>little green men. You know, we're not here on you know, uh,

1:09:03.640 --> 1:09:06.360
<v Speaker 9>you know, Coast to coast after dark or whatever. We're

1:09:06.360 --> 1:09:09.840
<v Speaker 9>we're not talking about that where you know, we're we

1:09:09.880 --> 1:09:17.040
<v Speaker 9>are talking about provable scientific findings and some things just

1:09:17.040 --> 1:09:21.479
<v Speaker 9>don't marry up. And it's not a conspiracy theory to

1:09:21.800 --> 1:09:28.559
<v Speaker 9>ask science based questions and to expect reasonable answers, you know, don't.

1:09:28.720 --> 1:09:30.280
<v Speaker 9>And and the thing about it is, I think for

1:09:30.320 --> 1:09:32.960
<v Speaker 9>so long, what's so frustrating about this is that everybody's

1:09:33.560 --> 1:09:36.559
<v Speaker 9>been led by the nose around about this whole thing.

1:09:36.600 --> 1:09:39.120
<v Speaker 9>And now they're saying, you know, ignore the man behind

1:09:39.160 --> 1:09:41.920
<v Speaker 9>the curtain now. And it's it's very frustrating. I can

1:09:42.000 --> 1:09:47.160
<v Speaker 9>understand why. Uh, it's bubbling over nationwide. It's not just

1:09:47.280 --> 1:09:50.439
<v Speaker 9>one little group of people, and it crosses the political aisles.

1:09:50.840 --> 1:09:56.160
<v Speaker 9>People are frustrated with this very much so, and it's

1:09:56.520 --> 1:10:01.120
<v Speaker 9>it's it's very very frustrating because those of us that

1:10:01.320 --> 1:10:05.640
<v Speaker 9>work in certain fields and we are counted on for

1:10:05.680 --> 1:10:11.280
<v Speaker 9>our scientific reliability. It leads down these really dangerous paths

1:10:11.320 --> 1:10:16.000
<v Speaker 9>where people begin to question scientific validity about other things

1:10:16.000 --> 1:10:18.280
<v Speaker 9>that you're involved in. It's not just the Epstein kickure.

1:10:18.640 --> 1:10:20.680
<v Speaker 9>It leads out right, that's problematic.

1:10:21.360 --> 1:10:22.519
<v Speaker 4>That's problematic because it.

1:10:22.479 --> 1:10:24.840
<v Speaker 3>Leads over to other issues and people stop believing in

1:10:24.880 --> 1:10:28.400
<v Speaker 3>the science and start believing rhetoric. Right, And that's not

1:10:28.439 --> 1:10:29.000
<v Speaker 3>a good place.

1:10:29.160 --> 1:10:31.920
<v Speaker 2>And it's so funny you bring that up, Joseph, because listen,

1:10:31.960 --> 1:10:34.880
<v Speaker 2>we live in a divided time, right, there's there's there's

1:10:34.880 --> 1:10:39.479
<v Speaker 2>so many sides right now, and everybody's you know, doubling down.

1:10:39.560 --> 1:10:41.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm right, I'm right. You know, it seems as though

1:10:41.600 --> 1:10:45.560
<v Speaker 2>one thing we can collectively all agree on, despite your politics,

1:10:45.560 --> 1:10:50.360
<v Speaker 2>your religion, your your finances. Like everybody wants answers because

1:10:50.400 --> 1:10:52.920
<v Speaker 2>we all feel a little gas lit by this. And

1:10:53.080 --> 1:10:55.639
<v Speaker 2>it's not a one person stop, right, Like one person

1:10:55.720 --> 1:10:59.360
<v Speaker 2>being excused from their job doesn't change the bigger picture

1:11:00.240 --> 1:11:05.559
<v Speaker 2>of this seeming there's something fishy, right, and we're in

1:11:05.600 --> 1:11:09.479
<v Speaker 2>the there's something fishy business. And again we're not here

1:11:09.560 --> 1:11:11.800
<v Speaker 2>to say we have answers that we don't, but I

1:11:11.920 --> 1:11:14.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, I was really hoping that even by tonight

1:11:14.880 --> 1:11:17.960
<v Speaker 2>by air, we would have more clarity given to us.

1:11:18.040 --> 1:11:19.400
<v Speaker 2>And it doesn't appear that's coming.

1:11:21.720 --> 1:11:25.080
<v Speaker 9>No, I don't know that that it is. I wouldn't

1:11:25.120 --> 1:11:27.479
<v Speaker 9>hold my breath. We've been holding our breath for a while.

1:11:27.520 --> 1:11:30.160
<v Speaker 9>And this is this is the you know, kind of

1:11:30.200 --> 1:11:35.720
<v Speaker 9>the ultimate screw you relative to you know what everybody's

1:11:35.800 --> 1:11:39.560
<v Speaker 9>kind of been waiting on and anticipating. Uh, very frustrated

1:11:39.600 --> 1:11:42.720
<v Speaker 9>and to another point too, And I know this is

1:11:42.760 --> 1:11:45.519
<v Speaker 9>something we can all agree on, is that we don't

1:11:45.600 --> 1:11:49.280
<v Speaker 9>like to see children abused, thank you. Exactly about it

1:11:49.320 --> 1:11:54.960
<v Speaker 9>is they they've become upon even furthermore than they were before.

1:11:55.520 --> 1:11:58.320
<v Speaker 9>And I've heard I've heard people try to adjust the ages. Now.

1:11:58.400 --> 1:12:01.519
<v Speaker 9>I've heard that that line of law in the news

1:12:01.560 --> 1:12:05.560
<v Speaker 9>media where they said, oh well, they were not underage,

1:12:05.600 --> 1:12:08.320
<v Speaker 9>they were just really young. And I've heard that stated

1:12:08.360 --> 1:12:11.080
<v Speaker 9>a couple of times, and I take exception with that,

1:12:11.560 --> 1:12:15.000
<v Speaker 9>particularly when you're hearing things these wild stories about girls

1:12:15.040 --> 1:12:18.600
<v Speaker 9>being brought in from Eastern Europe to service whoever this

1:12:18.800 --> 1:12:23.240
<v Speaker 9>cadret of people is. My question is is that they're

1:12:23.240 --> 1:12:27.400
<v Speaker 9>coming in from Eastern Europe? Where did they go exactly

1:12:27.400 --> 1:12:31.800
<v Speaker 9>where you know after they were used? Where did they go?

1:12:31.840 --> 1:12:34.320
<v Speaker 9>Where they just cut loose on the streets at Florida

1:12:34.800 --> 1:12:37.760
<v Speaker 9>or in Manhattan, or did they place them back on

1:12:37.800 --> 1:12:40.080
<v Speaker 9>a plane and take them back if we follow this

1:12:40.200 --> 1:12:43.040
<v Speaker 9>line of logic back to Eastern Europe, I don't know.

1:12:43.080 --> 1:12:44.880
<v Speaker 9>I would think that many of those girls have a

1:12:44.920 --> 1:12:47.000
<v Speaker 9>story to tell. I would think that there would be

1:12:47.000 --> 1:12:49.400
<v Speaker 9>an ambitious journalist out there that would want to track

1:12:49.479 --> 1:12:51.840
<v Speaker 9>some of these girls down and have conversations with them.

1:12:52.280 --> 1:12:55.320
<v Speaker 9>I don't know that. And there's so many of them allegedly,

1:12:55.880 --> 1:12:58.479
<v Speaker 9>it would seem as though you could find one. Where

1:12:58.520 --> 1:13:00.000
<v Speaker 9>are they? I want to know there's story?

1:13:00.520 --> 1:13:03.519
<v Speaker 6>Well, and Lisa Bryant who was on earlier. It's not

1:13:03.800 --> 1:13:08.800
<v Speaker 6>particularly the women slash girls you're referring to Joseph, but

1:13:09.400 --> 1:13:13.519
<v Speaker 6>she had a Lisa Bryant had really compelling information from

1:13:13.560 --> 1:13:17.639
<v Speaker 6>speaking with the victims who participated in her documentaries Filthy

1:13:17.720 --> 1:13:21.439
<v Speaker 6>rich On, Jeffrey Ebstein and Guleen Maxwell.

1:13:21.560 --> 1:13:24.040
<v Speaker 2>But it was yeah, what did happen?

1:13:24.160 --> 1:13:27.559
<v Speaker 6>And there's mention of their having their passports taken and

1:13:27.720 --> 1:13:31.559
<v Speaker 6>these girls, even if they were of age, the sex

1:13:31.600 --> 1:13:34.320
<v Speaker 6>trafficking still happened. You are still taken and you were

1:13:34.320 --> 1:13:37.559
<v Speaker 6>a lured with the promise of in some cases a

1:13:37.600 --> 1:13:41.400
<v Speaker 6>summer camp to help further your potential to get into college.

1:13:42.479 --> 1:13:43.960
<v Speaker 4>I mean, it's really what a.

1:13:43.880 --> 1:13:45.280
<v Speaker 2>Bunch of saying that was done.

1:13:45.360 --> 1:13:49.720
<v Speaker 9>My documentary by the way, absolutely donamite that Lisa, that

1:13:49.760 --> 1:13:53.120
<v Speaker 9>Lisa put together. Wat and I watched it, you know,

1:13:53.120 --> 1:13:55.320
<v Speaker 9>a couple of years back, and we were just, you know,

1:13:55.720 --> 1:13:59.080
<v Speaker 9>just astounded by it. It was beautifully found and it

1:13:59.120 --> 1:14:01.600
<v Speaker 9>was so the clarity on it was fantastic.

1:14:01.720 --> 1:14:03.200
<v Speaker 4>I have to get I have to watch it. I

1:14:03.200 --> 1:14:03.880
<v Speaker 4>have to be honest.

1:14:03.960 --> 1:14:06.559
<v Speaker 3>I never paid attention to the Epstein stuff because it

1:14:06.600 --> 1:14:08.880
<v Speaker 3>was so political and it was like, I just you know,

1:14:09.439 --> 1:14:12.519
<v Speaker 3>but now I'm sad, Like I am sad for this.

1:14:12.800 --> 1:14:14.600
<v Speaker 3>I am into it now and I'm I'm going to

1:14:14.640 --> 1:14:15.719
<v Speaker 3>watch it when we're done here.

1:14:15.840 --> 1:14:18.280
<v Speaker 2>And it makes us mad, you know. And Joseph to

1:14:18.320 --> 1:14:21.120
<v Speaker 2>your point, everybody on you know, in this conversation, right

1:14:21.200 --> 1:14:23.120
<v Speaker 2>Joseph you at the leader, by the way, host of

1:14:23.160 --> 1:14:25.680
<v Speaker 2>body Bags. If you if you haven't listened to the podcast,

1:14:25.960 --> 1:14:30.240
<v Speaker 2>please do. It's you know, so well done. You know,

1:14:30.280 --> 1:14:32.680
<v Speaker 2>it's all victim forward, right, So you know at a

1:14:32.720 --> 1:14:35.760
<v Speaker 2>time that it's increasingly difficult to be able to actually

1:14:36.400 --> 1:14:39.080
<v Speaker 2>get victims to come forward. You know, we're seeing that

1:14:39.160 --> 1:14:40.880
<v Speaker 2>just on the heels of the ditty case, you know,

1:14:42.600 --> 1:14:46.519
<v Speaker 2>get and this, that and another thing. It's hard out there,

1:14:46.640 --> 1:14:50.160
<v Speaker 2>so you know, things like this only make it worse.

1:14:50.240 --> 1:14:53.120
<v Speaker 2>And I'm going to hold out some hope that when

1:14:53.280 --> 1:14:55.439
<v Speaker 2>we all wake up in the morning tomorrow, we turn

1:14:55.520 --> 1:14:59.240
<v Speaker 2>the news on and there'll be some developments. Because nobody

1:14:59.280 --> 1:15:01.479
<v Speaker 2>even said that they're needed to be a client list,

1:15:01.600 --> 1:15:04.759
<v Speaker 2>like we were told there was an Air Quotes client list.

1:15:04.880 --> 1:15:07.080
<v Speaker 2>Like it's just too confusing.

1:15:07.840 --> 1:15:11.080
<v Speaker 4>Joseph, I have a question about the photos. That's senty minutes.

1:15:12.360 --> 1:15:15.880
<v Speaker 3>There's a photo of his back in the in the

1:15:15.960 --> 1:15:18.719
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna describe it the back, it looks like there's

1:15:19.479 --> 1:15:22.840
<v Speaker 3>blood pulling in areas of his back. Is that what

1:15:22.880 --> 1:15:24.599
<v Speaker 3>that is?

1:15:23.600 --> 1:15:23.640
<v Speaker 1>It?

1:15:24.600 --> 1:15:27.320
<v Speaker 4>Is that what you would expect to see? And what

1:15:27.520 --> 1:15:31.559
<v Speaker 4>does that tell you? How wal Yeah, I'm asking question.

1:15:32.520 --> 1:15:34.479
<v Speaker 9>No, no, no, no, that's fine, and we need to

1:15:34.520 --> 1:15:37.439
<v Speaker 9>ask questions. Yeah, that's post worm liviidity, and that means

1:15:37.479 --> 1:15:42.320
<v Speaker 9>that if it's posterior, and the terms are kind of confusing,

1:15:42.400 --> 1:15:47.280
<v Speaker 9>post mortem lividity is posterior in this case, which means

1:15:47.320 --> 1:15:51.760
<v Speaker 9>on the backside. So gravity if you're laying face up,

1:15:51.960 --> 1:15:55.519
<v Speaker 9>let's just say face up, blood is going, it's a liquid,

1:15:55.600 --> 1:15:57.479
<v Speaker 9>it's going to see the lowest point of gravity. And

1:15:57.520 --> 1:16:01.320
<v Speaker 9>so we'll go there and there is of a time

1:16:01.840 --> 1:16:05.200
<v Speaker 9>measurement that we do for that. Now to your point,

1:16:05.920 --> 1:16:09.600
<v Speaker 9>when we have hangings, suspension hanging, and it can be

1:16:09.640 --> 1:16:12.719
<v Speaker 9>a partial we have suspension hangings, which is the classic

1:16:12.800 --> 1:16:16.280
<v Speaker 9>thing where somebody's hanging from a raptor and just hanging

1:16:16.439 --> 1:16:20.400
<v Speaker 9>in the air. Then you have partial support or partial

1:16:20.400 --> 1:16:23.479
<v Speaker 9>suspension where feet or knees are touching the ground. Did

1:16:23.520 --> 1:16:25.840
<v Speaker 9>you know that you'll actually have post moral avidity that

1:16:25.920 --> 1:16:29.639
<v Speaker 9>will set in in the ankles and in the knees,

1:16:29.760 --> 1:16:32.160
<v Speaker 9>and the knees and the ankles will swell because the

1:16:32.200 --> 1:16:37.160
<v Speaker 9>engorgement of gravity pulling down the blood. And I would

1:16:37.160 --> 1:16:42.960
<v Speaker 9>be interested to see the actual autopsy photographs to understand that,

1:16:43.240 --> 1:16:46.760
<v Speaker 9>because that will give you a lot of information about positionality.

1:16:47.520 --> 1:16:52.080
<v Speaker 9>When you're seeing those images of his body and you're

1:16:52.160 --> 1:16:55.800
<v Speaker 9>looking at the posterior, that's probably a shot that was

1:16:55.800 --> 1:16:59.840
<v Speaker 9>taken in the morgue. He's already been in a cooler way,

1:17:00.240 --> 1:17:03.280
<v Speaker 9>face face up, and a cooler for a period of time,

1:17:03.360 --> 1:17:06.519
<v Speaker 9>so lividity will settle. That's why you have to make

1:17:06.560 --> 1:17:09.679
<v Speaker 9>these judgments at the scene as soon as you can,

1:17:10.120 --> 1:17:12.800
<v Speaker 9>because all of the data is wrecked after you have

1:17:12.880 --> 1:17:16.160
<v Speaker 9>these time these markers out in tom you get beyond

1:17:16.160 --> 1:17:19.479
<v Speaker 9>those markers and the data, your data points are blown

1:17:19.479 --> 1:17:20.280
<v Speaker 9>to hell at that point.

1:17:20.439 --> 1:17:22.880
<v Speaker 3>So these were taken hours later after he sat in

1:17:22.920 --> 1:17:28.000
<v Speaker 3>the cooler, probably, so these weren't like Onseen photographs that

1:17:28.000 --> 1:17:28.639
<v Speaker 3>were looking.

1:17:28.400 --> 1:17:30.680
<v Speaker 9>At No, those were not on scene he was. He was.

1:17:31.000 --> 1:17:33.599
<v Speaker 9>As a matter fact, you look at one of those images,

1:17:33.680 --> 1:17:35.720
<v Speaker 9>you can see the paddle mark on his chest where

1:17:35.760 --> 1:17:38.280
<v Speaker 9>they try to do resuscitation. Yes, it's right, you can't.

1:17:38.280 --> 1:17:40.000
<v Speaker 9>It's right over stern them. Yeah.

1:17:40.200 --> 1:17:40.800
<v Speaker 4>Interesting.

1:17:41.320 --> 1:17:43.719
<v Speaker 3>You're listening to True Crime tonight, where we talk true

1:17:43.800 --> 1:17:46.200
<v Speaker 3>crime all the time, and we're right in the middle

1:17:46.200 --> 1:17:49.599
<v Speaker 3>of talking with Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert on the

1:17:49.680 --> 1:17:54.200
<v Speaker 3>alleged suicide of Jeffrey Epstein Court.

1:17:54.240 --> 1:17:55.479
<v Speaker 2>You had you had a good question.

1:17:56.000 --> 1:17:58.679
<v Speaker 6>Yes, okay, we do not have a lot of time,

1:17:58.760 --> 1:18:01.360
<v Speaker 6>but i have a lot of need to know the answer.

1:18:01.720 --> 1:18:04.479
<v Speaker 6>So I've been digging through all this information as we're talking,

1:18:04.520 --> 1:18:08.000
<v Speaker 6>flipping through papers. Among injuries that were found on Epstein

1:18:08.160 --> 1:18:12.920
<v Speaker 6>during the autopsy, contusions on both of his wrists and abrasion,

1:18:12.960 --> 1:18:16.320
<v Speaker 6>a bruise on his left forearm, and quote deep muscle

1:18:16.360 --> 1:18:20.920
<v Speaker 6>hemorrhaging in his left shoulder muscle. So I'm a lay person,

1:18:21.240 --> 1:18:25.160
<v Speaker 6>but is that consistent with suicidal hanging?

1:18:25.720 --> 1:18:27.120
<v Speaker 9>No?

1:18:27.479 --> 1:18:29.400
<v Speaker 4>No, no period?

1:18:30.080 --> 1:18:33.439
<v Speaker 9>Really and real quickly. I hope that they dissected each

1:18:33.479 --> 1:18:36.760
<v Speaker 9>one of those injuries because we can actually age those injuries.

1:18:36.920 --> 1:18:39.759
<v Speaker 9>We can say if they're resolving or not. I'm hoping

1:18:39.800 --> 1:18:43.400
<v Speaker 9>they did, you know, to try to again contextuals.

1:18:44.120 --> 1:18:45.759
<v Speaker 4>Can we not get the autopsy report?

1:18:45.840 --> 1:18:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Like?

1:18:46.000 --> 1:18:49.000
<v Speaker 4>Can is this foiable? I'm sure somebody has already.

1:18:49.120 --> 1:18:50.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it is.

1:18:50.479 --> 1:18:50.719
<v Speaker 9>Really.

1:18:51.080 --> 1:18:53.120
<v Speaker 2>I want to say that for fact though, because I

1:18:53.160 --> 1:18:54.160
<v Speaker 2>don't think that it is.

1:18:55.080 --> 1:18:56.240
<v Speaker 4>Okay, well then we can foil it.

1:18:56.240 --> 1:18:58.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna look into it, because that's crazy,

1:18:59.000 --> 1:19:04.840
<v Speaker 2>like not injury, pick your poison, choose your dad, choose

1:19:04.880 --> 1:19:05.320
<v Speaker 2>your night.

1:19:05.400 --> 1:19:07.040
<v Speaker 4>My Funday Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

1:19:07.439 --> 1:19:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, starting, we're doing a twenty four hour show. It's

1:19:12.360 --> 1:19:17.320
<v Speaker 2>a marathon and kids, we're just getting started. It's the

1:19:17.400 --> 1:19:23.120
<v Speaker 2>forensics off and you know, listen it's complicated stuff. Again,

1:19:23.200 --> 1:19:24.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to hold out hope that we have some

1:19:24.840 --> 1:19:28.720
<v Speaker 2>clarity is starting tomorrow. I'm hoping that someone out there

1:19:28.760 --> 1:19:30.920
<v Speaker 2>can move the needle, you know, for anyone connected to

1:19:30.920 --> 1:19:34.000
<v Speaker 2>this case, victims included. You know, our hearts genuinely are

1:19:34.040 --> 1:19:37.960
<v Speaker 2>with you, and we hope this doesn't discourage other victims

1:19:37.960 --> 1:19:41.559
<v Speaker 2>from from coming forward and speaking up because you know,

1:19:41.640 --> 1:19:45.320
<v Speaker 2>without your voice, you know, silence changes nothing, right, So

1:19:46.360 --> 1:19:49.120
<v Speaker 2>what a night I feel. Also, Lisa Bryant, thank you

1:19:49.160 --> 1:19:52.360
<v Speaker 2>for joining us for this. You know again, this one's

1:19:52.400 --> 1:19:54.600
<v Speaker 2>knocking on doors and you know, getting on yachts to

1:19:54.600 --> 1:19:57.880
<v Speaker 2>go to islands to get herself not killed, thank god.

1:19:58.080 --> 1:20:01.840
<v Speaker 2>But that's pretty gutsy stuff, and you know, hats off

1:20:01.960 --> 1:20:04.599
<v Speaker 2>in my humble opinion, as your friend and colleague, let's

1:20:04.680 --> 1:20:06.720
<v Speaker 2>knock it off with all that because we want you

1:20:06.800 --> 1:20:09.040
<v Speaker 2>safe and sound. But again, Lisa will be joining us

1:20:09.080 --> 1:20:11.400
<v Speaker 2>hopefully very soon too, to talk through any of these

1:20:11.400 --> 1:20:13.880
<v Speaker 2>new developments as they unfold, and we got a big

1:20:13.920 --> 1:20:16.599
<v Speaker 2>week ahead. So Joseph, you've been following so many cases

1:20:16.600 --> 1:20:18.360
<v Speaker 2>that we didn't even get to touch on tonight. The

1:20:18.400 --> 1:20:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Menanda's brothers too. We want your feedback on that one,

1:20:21.280 --> 1:20:23.640
<v Speaker 2>because there's a hearing coming up on that. I don't know,

1:20:23.720 --> 1:20:26.439
<v Speaker 2>we'll pick your poison anyone.

1:20:27.560 --> 1:20:29.719
<v Speaker 3>I just I just I just can't believe I didn't

1:20:29.720 --> 1:20:31.280
<v Speaker 3>know all this stuff about you know that.

1:20:31.560 --> 1:20:33.360
<v Speaker 4>I'm literally in kind of stunned.

1:20:33.400 --> 1:20:35.360
<v Speaker 3>I've been I've been kind of sitting here all night

1:20:35.520 --> 1:20:38.040
<v Speaker 3>just kind of just like staring at Joseph talk and

1:20:38.120 --> 1:20:41.200
<v Speaker 3>listening to Lisa and just been transfixed because there's just

1:20:41.200 --> 1:20:43.360
<v Speaker 3>so many inconsistencies that I never paid attention to.

1:20:43.640 --> 1:20:45.639
<v Speaker 4>Just I just didn't care about this case. I just didn't.

1:20:45.800 --> 1:20:48.839
<v Speaker 4>But man, I am really I'm really shocked.

1:20:49.040 --> 1:20:50.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it's shocking.

1:20:50.640 --> 1:20:51.960
<v Speaker 4>It is shocking, and I.

1:20:51.880 --> 1:20:53.760
<v Speaker 3>Think, yeah, I'm kind of just kind of speechless, and

1:20:53.760 --> 1:20:55.040
<v Speaker 3>I feel kind of silly.

1:20:55.000 --> 1:20:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Silly, You're the least silly person. You're still silly for not.

1:21:00.000 --> 1:21:05.280
<v Speaker 9>It's confusing. It's confusing because it's so voluminous, so very voluminous,

1:21:05.320 --> 1:21:10.000
<v Speaker 9>and it has been made unnecessarily confusing and in some

1:21:10.200 --> 1:21:14.000
<v Speaker 9>monds intentionally that way. So and it shouldn't be. It

1:21:14.000 --> 1:21:16.280
<v Speaker 9>shouldn't be. This is pretty straightforward.

1:21:15.760 --> 1:21:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Stuff, right, It's black and white, but it's not apparently well,

1:21:20.160 --> 1:21:22.360
<v Speaker 2>just like that. Another Sunday night comes to a close.

1:21:22.560 --> 1:21:25.439
<v Speaker 2>Listen up, everybody. We're wishing everybody a great start to

1:21:25.479 --> 1:21:29.080
<v Speaker 2>their week, happy Monday to be, so let's go and

1:21:29.200 --> 1:21:31.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, join forces. And also our hearts are with

1:21:32.040 --> 1:21:35.439
<v Speaker 2>Texas as always, so sending our love and prayers there.

1:21:35.600 --> 1:21:37.920
<v Speaker 2>It's been a great night, Thanks everybody. This is true

1:21:37.920 --> 1:21:48.800
<v Speaker 2>crime tonight. Good night, Stay safe.