Speaker 1: And now watching my mic back, you're like that.
Speaker 2: You can strike.
Speaker 1: Waters from head borders behind in the line. All right,
Speaker 1: and uh, if you're just tuning in the civic cipher,
Speaker 1: i'my host Rams'.
Speaker 3: Job, he is joh, I am q ward. You guys
Speaker 3: go back with us once again, or one more again,
Speaker 3: as my brother would say, that checking out another another.
Speaker 3: We call our show an episode. You call it a
Speaker 3: it's a good question, rendition, another installment, you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying, one of those, any of them.
Speaker 1: I feel like all of it. I feel like it.
Speaker 3: Feels like TV slash movie slash radio slash like. I
Speaker 3: feel like we're in every media span. I think it's
Speaker 3: the way let me shameless plug. Rams has built such
Speaker 3: an incredible studio for us. It feels like we're on television,
Speaker 3: in a movie, doing a podcast for the radio.
Speaker 1: Well, I love that, and uh, in this studio, there's
Speaker 1: a lot for you to stick around for. Of course,
Speaker 1: we're going to keep talking about ally ships, so please
Speaker 1: stick around for that, and then of course for our
Speaker 1: way Black History fact, we'll be talking about Rosewood. But
Speaker 1: first and foremost, let's discuss Baba, how to become a
Speaker 1: better ally All right. For today's Baba Becoming a Better Ally,
Speaker 1: I just know that it is sponsored by Major Threads.
Speaker 1: For the finest in quality men's sportswear, checkmajorthreads dot com.
Speaker 1: And for today's Baba, we are asking you let me
Speaker 1: let me preface this, okay, Q and I are reevaluating
Speaker 1: our relationship with social media, particularly after Elon Musk's takeover
Speaker 1: of Twitter right, and we realize how important social media
Speaker 1: is and how it gets information out, but also we
Speaker 1: realize it can be very overwhelming, and we realize that
Speaker 1: if you're caught in a strange algorithm, you might not
Speaker 1: get information that might be helpful to you. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna shout out a few names, a few accounts that
Speaker 1: we believe are folks you can keep up with during
Speaker 1: the week outside of ramses Jah and IMQ or. These
Speaker 1: folks are like really dialed in, So allow me to
Speaker 1: get a couple of these names off for those of
Speaker 1: you who are on IG. We found a bit of
Speaker 1: a cowboy, kind of an older white man. His name
Speaker 1: is at Paul t X eight nine zero, and that
Speaker 1: guy is of the truth. So once again, Paul t
Speaker 1: X eight nine zero, he's got a bunch of followers.
Speaker 1: He puts out great content and all still have to
Speaker 1: keep you informing and engage on your journey of allyship.
Speaker 1: Another one that we like is at Indigo Underscore Carolina,
Speaker 1: and then we're going to shout out another one as well,
Speaker 1: Garrison h. And then one Accu's favorites is at Joy
Speaker 1: and Reed one of my absolute favorite r E I D.
Speaker 1: And then for those of you who are on TikTok,
Speaker 1: I would love for you to check out Lavert the
Speaker 1: Bit the Baseman. Lavert the Baseman. He's an amazing person.
Speaker 1: He does the credible thing about everything is racist and
Speaker 1: it is. I hope we can be fascinate. Get him
Speaker 1: on the show, and then also be sure to check
Speaker 1: out Spitfire Speaking and Adam Conover. So yeah, a lot
Speaker 1: of times it's really easy to get disheartened. You know,
Speaker 1: I've seen that when we were out on the streets.
Speaker 1: There was the groups of people that were so excited,
Speaker 1: Hey I want to support, Hey I want to support,
Speaker 1: and you know, people would get out of line. People
Speaker 1: would want to be the voice and it's like, listen,
Speaker 1: are you going to be an ally or did you
Speaker 1: come here to be the leader? You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: because these black women are capable of telling their own stories.
Speaker 1: So you need to sit down and you need to listen.
Speaker 1: If in fact, that's what you're here to do. If
Speaker 1: you're here because you want to be the savior, then
Speaker 1: this isn't the fight for you. We don't need a savior.
Speaker 1: We can save ourselves. We need to articulate what it is.
Speaker 3: And it doesn't disqualify you from ever leading, right, because
Speaker 3: there's going to be spaces where you need that absolutely.
Speaker 1: But you know a lot of times people would show
Speaker 1: up and they would think, well, I'm here now, so
Speaker 1: let me fix all of their problems, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. And the thing is they've been taught that
Speaker 1: that's how you can approach everything. Well as with everything, bro,
Speaker 1: there's nuance.
Speaker 3: There are some situations where you very ggulator come in
Speaker 3: with your do that, yeah, because in this space we
Speaker 3: need that. But as it recognized the spaces when that's
Speaker 3: not the case.
Speaker 1: And so here's what I was saying when I say
Speaker 1: that those people that would show up where their whole
Speaker 1: life is taught them you are the savior. You're the
Speaker 1: person that can fix all these poor Africans problems with
Speaker 1: stomachs sticking out and flies. You can spend thirty five
Speaker 1: cents a day and fix it. You know. The people
Speaker 1: that grew up with that that's their reality. They show
Speaker 1: up well intentioned, they show up feeling like they want
Speaker 1: to do what it is that they've been told that
Speaker 1: they are capable of doing, and then they get shut
Speaker 1: down because it's like, no, this isn't the space for
Speaker 1: that type of you know energy. This is a space
Speaker 1: where you can support us. We don't need for you
Speaker 1: to tell us what to do. We need to tell
Speaker 1: the world what it is that we need. It is
Speaker 1: our time to speak, and we need you to listen
Speaker 1: and support us. Right So for people that have the
Speaker 1: right type of their intentions are good, that might knock
Speaker 1: the wind out of their sales, you know, hearing like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's not what we need right now. We just need
Speaker 1: you to kind of fall back, listen, be a fly
Speaker 1: on a well observed and then when we call on you,
Speaker 1: we need you to be a foot soldier. Right yeah.
Speaker 3: I think lastly, just to this point, not that this
Speaker 3: conversation is over, but just so we can get you know,
Speaker 3: what we've written and now what we're thinking out loud,
Speaker 3: you know, back to our fantastic team. There is cost
Speaker 3: to allyship. There are going to be people that you
Speaker 3: love that disagree with you. There are gonna be opportunities
Speaker 3: that are no longer presented to you. There are gonna
Speaker 3: be colleagues at work that no longer talk to you.
Speaker 3: Block them versus The answer is to be liberal with
Speaker 3: the block button. But I mean it's I've lived it right.
Speaker 1: I work.
Speaker 3: I work still like you know, my brother here is
Speaker 3: full time in the creative space. I still work full time,
Speaker 3: day to day, every day, corporate American. I was all
Speaker 3: over the national news behind that trademark. The temperature at
Speaker 3: work is different.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: There is a cost to pay. There are people who
Speaker 3: have not said a single word to me since CNN,
Speaker 3: and that's me. When you don't look like me and
Speaker 3: you're fighting on this side of it, it is going
Speaker 3: to cost maybe your parents, maybe your children, maybe your boss,
Speaker 3: maybe your favorite coworker.
Speaker 1: Friends from high school. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I have learned that people I love and have
Speaker 3: decades of friendship and relationships with are on the opposite
Speaker 3: side of this, and some of those people look just
Speaker 3: like us. So you can only imagine for people who fight.
Speaker 3: This is not for those who are declaring themselves allies.
Speaker 3: You are going to ruffle some feathers for people who
Speaker 3: you've probably got years and years of love relationship, and
Speaker 3: that these people are integral parts of your daily life.
Speaker 3: You will lose some of them if you actually commit
Speaker 3: to this fight. It is important to understand that going
Speaker 3: in and not let that be the reason why you
Speaker 3: give up.
Speaker 1: So let me make that live if I may, and
Speaker 1: then will put a bonus. But there's a woman that
Speaker 1: I know, and then you know. Her name is Maya.
Speaker 1: And I met Maya when she was seventeen years old.
Speaker 1: And Maya has a father who is a doctor and
Speaker 1: a mother who is a doctor. And Maya is probably
Speaker 1: some sort of German white like white white, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Met her father. Her father wanted to
Speaker 1: meet me because of radio. And it's like, hey, my
Speaker 1: daughter was interested in becoming a radio person in DJ
Speaker 1: Could I introduce the two of you. I'm like, sure,
Speaker 1: no problem, happy to help. Then his daughter drove to
Speaker 1: my house. I didn't know how old she was. It
Speaker 1: was a seventeen year old. I'm a grown girl, super
Speaker 1: girl man at least double her age. At the time
Speaker 1: when I met her, seventeen year old child came into
Speaker 1: my home to meet me, and I'm like, ooh, and
Speaker 1: she said, yeah, I'm getting ready to go to school.
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to an Ivy League university and
Speaker 1: I'm going to school because i want to be a
Speaker 1: civil rights attorney. Sure, oh that's different, Okay, So what
Speaker 1: do you need from me? Right? This is this is
Speaker 1: my energy. Of course, everything that she's ever needed she's
Speaker 1: gotten from me. She came to my little words that morning.
Speaker 1: I did recently. But she firmly believes that the world
Speaker 1: could be a better place for everybody, and the way
Speaker 1: to go about doing that is by starting where there's
Speaker 1: the most the greatest need. Right hence the civil rights attorney. Right,
Speaker 1: if I can help black people, if I can help
Speaker 1: marginalize people, if I can help Hispanic people, I can
Speaker 1: help trans people or whatever. But she met me, that
Speaker 1: was a very black and white conversation. But I know
Speaker 1: that she has one of those hearts now in the
Speaker 1: years since I've known her her father, remember, her father
Speaker 1: was the one that introduced the two of us. Not
Speaker 1: to put her business out there too much, but I
Speaker 1: know that her relationship with her father has been tested,
Speaker 1: and I know that other relationships of hers had been
Speaker 1: tested because she comes from pretty conservative town, you know,
Speaker 1: and she was kind of the person that saw the
Speaker 1: world with a little bit more empathy, a little bit
Speaker 1: more compassion, a little bit more understanding, a little bit
Speaker 1: more hope and optimism, like this could be better. She
Speaker 1: never never once needed to do anything for anybody else.
Speaker 1: She could have just lived and thrived. Remember both parents
Speaker 1: are doctors. She stepped out of her comfort zone. She
Speaker 1: decided to walk a path that might not be fiscally
Speaker 1: as rewarding, might be super rewarding spiritually. That's my belief
Speaker 1: because she seems like one of the happiest people I've
Speaker 1: ever met, constantly, every time I see her, every time
Speaker 1: I talk on the phone. But she's also paid that
Speaker 1: cost that you mentioned, and you know, I mentioned her
Speaker 1: relationship with her dad, but there's other relationships too where
Speaker 1: it's like, listen, here's what it is, here's what it's not.
Speaker 1: And to be fair, she's challenged me too on some things,
Speaker 1: you know, where I'm thinking I'm saying this and this
Speaker 1: is a good thing. She's like, there's a better way
Speaker 1: to say that. There's a better way to go about
Speaker 1: doing that. And you know in Princeville, she knows what
Speaker 1: I mean. But there are some things that you're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: There's some things that allyship will cost that you may
Speaker 1: not be aware of that you should be that. You
Speaker 1: may not know who it is, you may not know
Speaker 1: how it impacts your life, but if you really do
Speaker 1: plan on walking this path, you know there's people that
Speaker 1: pay with their lives. Remember the I forget his name,
Speaker 1: he deserves to be mentioned, but he was in the
Speaker 1: Olympics and he took he shared his gloves with the athletes,
Speaker 1: I want to say, and he took the podium and
Speaker 1: there was we need to figure this out immediately. But
Speaker 1: you know the photograph I'm thinking.
Speaker 3: About, right, yeah, one Carlos and yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: I'll look that up for you. Sure. But yeah, So
Speaker 1: there's three athletes that are all on the podium and
Speaker 1: the white man that was I believe it was second place.
Speaker 3: What he took, Tommy Smith and John Carlos.
Speaker 1: Okay, so the white man that was there was standing
Speaker 1: in solidarity with him, and I believe, if the story
Speaker 1: is correct in my memory, he's the one that gave
Speaker 1: them the gloves to wear, and he knew that that
Speaker 1: wasn't his moment, but he stood firmly with the athletes,
Speaker 1: the black athletes there, and they ridiculed that man. They
Speaker 1: took everything from that man, and he died very very
Speaker 1: much before his time as a result of that. So
Speaker 1: my point is that allyship can cost more than just relationships.
Speaker 1: It can cost everything up to and including even your life.
Speaker 1: There's lots of our heroes that we celebrate and their
Speaker 1: names will be forever with us.
Speaker 3: That gentleman's name was Peter Norman Peter, and he stood
Speaker 3: in solidarity with them exactly.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So that's all that's standing in solidarity with
Speaker 1: people that's not seeking to get the attention. Notice his
Speaker 1: hand wasn't in the air. That wasn't his moment, you know,
Speaker 1: And obviously that's not what you want to see someone
Speaker 1: get ridiculed and pay with their life. Ultimately, I believe that,
Speaker 1: either directly or indirectly, that was the way his story went.
Speaker 1: But we're talking about him now as an ally who
Speaker 1: did write by us. If there is such a thing
Speaker 1: as heaven and I get there and that man isn't there,
Speaker 1: and I've gone to the wrong place, and you know,
Speaker 1: what else is crazy. If I am here, I want
Speaker 1: to point out something else. There's a lot of white
Speaker 1: people throughout history who have been allies to black people,
Speaker 1: and one of the things that is kind of unfortunate
Speaker 1: is that a lot of them aren't known to us,
Speaker 1: and as a result, they're not celebrated for doing the
Speaker 1: right thing. And I'm sure that you know, many of
Speaker 1: them aren't really looking to be celebrated. It's simply a
Speaker 1: matter of following their internal moral compass and just simply
Speaker 1: doing what's right. But when I hear stories like that,
Speaker 1: I feel encouraged that other white people will feel like
Speaker 1: doing the right thing is greater than the sum of
Speaker 1: its parts. Right, there's a bigger impact. They can make
Speaker 1: a change, voice matters, et cetera. And so that's why
Speaker 1: often on this show, when it makes sense, we will
Speaker 1: do a deep dive about someone who's not black, oftentimes
Speaker 1: they're white, who has been a tremendous ally to black
Speaker 1: people and all people from being honest and folks that
Speaker 1: want to see the world just treat everyone a little
Speaker 1: bit more fairly. And so, you know, I hope that
Speaker 1: that story and stories like that aren't just stories, but
Speaker 1: they actually serve as motivation because you got a bear
Speaker 1: in mind. You know, he's on a stage second place
Speaker 1: in the Olympics. The world is watching, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of make it or break it moment and
Speaker 1: we as we know, it costs a lot. But he's
Speaker 1: remembered for rather more than making second place. He's just
Speaker 1: not widely remembered. I think he's more remembered than perhaps
Speaker 1: anyone else from the Olympics that year who was not
Speaker 1: a black activist. But still, you know, there's there's levels
Speaker 1: to this.
Speaker 3: And even if he's not remembered, he's ever present because
Speaker 3: of the photo, you know what I mean. So people
Speaker 3: who never knew his name, people who never knew or
Speaker 3: still don't know his story, you know, people that may
Speaker 3: not be listening to us, they've seen that picture. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I'm sure some have questioned, yo, who who is
Speaker 3: the guy that came in second? That story has has
Speaker 3: had to be told. Now, I don't know, when we're
Speaker 3: talking about allies white allies throughout history, there's a a
Speaker 3: measure of self awareness that's necessary there because you have
Speaker 3: to say to yourself in that moment, I'm advantage, I'm advantaged,
Speaker 3: like I'm disadvantages is a much more naturally natural inclination,
Speaker 3: if you will, I'm privileged and or advantaged, not so much.
Speaker 3: It's hard to see that. Yeah, So people who are
Speaker 3: self aware enough to see in a way that's not
Speaker 3: paying themselves a compliment that I'm privileged. Yeah, because I'm
Speaker 3: sure there were many people who are very very aware
Speaker 3: of there, of the difference in stature and throughout you know,
Speaker 3: the civilized world. Sure, but in a way that says
Speaker 3: I'm unfairly privileged. You know, this is not something that
Speaker 3: was earned. This is just the way it is. I
Speaker 3: benefit from something. That's something that something's at play here
Speaker 3: that I'm benefiting from, and it's not necessarily a good thing.
Speaker 1: There's there's something about this where, you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of times people who are not black feel like black
Speaker 1: people are kind of picking on them because they're white.
Speaker 1: And I feel like, you know, this is obviously a
Speaker 1: conversation for our would be allies and obviously people that
Speaker 1: experience the world the same way that we do. But
Speaker 1: there's something worth and it's that you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of times these issues aren't with white people because they're white.
Speaker 1: It's the issues are with human beings. Being human beings,
Speaker 1: and they often happen to be white. I'll give you
Speaker 1: an example to your point. Q. I recall a couple
Speaker 1: of times in my life coming across a story about Monopoly,
Speaker 1: the game Monopoly, Right, I've told that story on the show. Yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So for our listeners, for our listeners, I want to
Speaker 1: make sure that you are brought up to speed. So basically,
Speaker 1: there's a story, a study that was done, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure you can find this on YouTube and check out
Speaker 1: the results. It's fascinating. And again, this is not about
Speaker 1: white people. This is not about capital, this isn't about
Speaker 1: anything that we tend to pick on here at this show.
Speaker 1: This is about human nature. So what happens is there
Speaker 1: is a study and there's a game of Monopoly, and
Speaker 1: one person gets to roll both dice and gets two
Speaker 1: hundred dollars every time they pass go and they get
Speaker 1: the full They don't get any advantages, so no privileges,
Speaker 1: but they critically they don't have any disadvantages, right, and
Speaker 1: then the other players in the game to varying levels.
Speaker 1: If my memory serves me correct our disadvantage. Maybe they
Speaker 1: can only roll one dice, maybe they can get only
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars when they pass go, maybe every other
Speaker 1: turn is skipped, whatever the case is. Right, So you
Speaker 1: listening to this understands clearly that, well, the person who's
Speaker 1: able to roll both dice and enjoy all of the
Speaker 1: advantages afforded by the game is going to win, right.
Speaker 1: But they weren't studying whether or not the person will win,
Speaker 1: because I think there's no question there. They were studying
Speaker 1: how they reacted to the advantage that they had. And
Speaker 1: funnily enough, the more that the person with the and
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say advantage, but the person who was able
Speaker 1: to play the game fully, it was very difficult for
Speaker 1: them to just to show behavior that suggested that they
Speaker 1: were privileged. It's like they couldn't see it. It was like, oh,
Speaker 1: well back to me, all right, I'm gonna buy that
Speaker 1: from you. Okay, pay up. You know, there was no empathy.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like, hey man, you're about to get bankrupt.
Speaker 1: I realized that I'm playing the game here. I know
Speaker 1: full well. They told me the rules in the beginning
Speaker 1: that I this is deck. They told me that there's
Speaker 1: a catch here, and it's the disadvantage is levied against you.
Speaker 1: Not against me, but they still played the game aggressively,
Speaker 1: and of course they won, and it was celebrated the
Speaker 1: win exactly as though they somehow go ahead, you said,
Speaker 1: as though somehow they had earned it. And so I
Speaker 1: say that to say that a lot of times, it's
Speaker 1: very difficult for people to see their own Again, privilege
Speaker 1: is a word that triggers a lot of folks, but
Speaker 1: the lack of disadvantages in their world. And again, this
Speaker 1: is not a matter of it being a person who's white.
Speaker 1: It's a matter of a human being behaving as a
Speaker 1: human being would, and overwhelmingly in our story at least,
Speaker 1: they happen to be white folks. And so we're not
Speaker 1: mad at white people because they're white. We're not mad
Speaker 1: at white people at all. We recognize their human beings.
Speaker 1: But they need to be educated about their privilege. And
Speaker 1: try as you might, a lot of people will push
Speaker 1: back against it because in their opinion, well, look, I
Speaker 1: wrote the disce same as everyone else. Look I bought it.
Speaker 1: That was the price everybody, if you you could have
Speaker 1: bought it, you know, And these are like realistic things,
Speaker 1: and you can see how easily that translates into the
Speaker 1: world that we all share, right, So allieship or would
Speaker 1: be allyship in this instance is something that also lies
Speaker 1: just beyond the self reflection necessary to see the world
Speaker 1: for what it is. And of course, of course anybody
Speaker 1: can fly around the world and say, listen, look at
Speaker 1: those kids in Africa with the belly sticking out and
Speaker 1: the flies in their eyes. Or look at those kids
Speaker 1: living in the slums in India, or look at how
Speaker 1: the North Koreans are being treated, or look at you know,
Speaker 1: all these places around the world, very distant, far off lands,
Speaker 1: but it's very difficult to see that. Oftentimes circumstances that
Speaker 1: or the invisible forces behind let's say capitalism or political
Speaker 1: agendas or whatever that privilege and benefit people who are
Speaker 1: very much empathetic to all of these, you know, places
Speaker 1: around the world where people are suffering, they often fail
Speaker 1: to connect that suffering to the world that they live in.
Speaker 1: I and I don't want to point fingers because I'm
Speaker 1: Ramsey's job, and I have an iPhone. You know, I
Speaker 1: have tons of shoes. I'm sure they're made in trying
Speaker 1: to you know, this sort of thing. So we all
Speaker 1: are learning how to be better allies to each other,
Speaker 1: but often enough, the you know, the biggest uh and
Speaker 1: the and the and the greatest overreach, I should say,
Speaker 1: appears certainly from this vantage point to often enough be
Speaker 1: from white individuals who have wealth, power, status, uh support
Speaker 1: from all the systems, the political establishment, the criminal justice system,
Speaker 1: the educational system, the medical fields, you know, the uh,
Speaker 1: you know, you name it. That list goes on and.
Speaker 3: I was going to say, that's going to turn into
Speaker 3: an infinite list here.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and again, this is not a matter of
Speaker 1: complaining or anything like that. This is just a conversation,
Speaker 1: the conress on what it means to be an ally
Speaker 1: and why that's important, and you know, how you can
Speaker 1: become a better ally, ways you can challenge yourself. And
Speaker 1: I think that conversations like these are mission critical to
Speaker 1: anybody who's listening to this show. I don't imagine you'd
Speaker 1: be listening to the show for this long without thinking
Speaker 1: that something like that is possible, Like a positive, favorable
Speaker 1: outcome for all folks is possible. A more empathetic world,
Speaker 1: a world where we understand each other, and I think critically,
Speaker 1: a world where people recognize that when I pass go,
Speaker 1: I get two hundred dollars and when you pass go.
Speaker 1: There's varying levels of disadvantages that you might encounter at
Speaker 1: that point or indeed as you play the game of life.
Speaker 1: Forgive the switch in the metaphor, but I think it
Speaker 1: works to me.
Speaker 3: Just be great to have those things acknowledged.
Speaker 1: That's all, yeah, exactly, So, all right now it is
Speaker 1: time for the way Black History effect. And today's way
Speaker 1: Black History fact is about the Rosewood Massacre. I'm reading
Speaker 1: this from history dot Com, and just know that this
Speaker 1: is brought to you by the Black Information Network Daily Podcasts.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of you may have seen the
Speaker 1: movie Rosewood, but this is black history and we got
Speaker 1: to talk about it too. And for those of you
Speaker 1: haven't seen it, I'm sure this will be informative, to
Speaker 1: say the least. So I'll read. The Rosewood Massacre was
Speaker 1: an attack on the predominantly African American town of Rosewood, Florida,
Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty three by large groups of white aggressors.
Speaker 1: The town was entirely destroyed by the end of the violence,
Speaker 1: and the residents were driven out permanently. The story was
Speaker 1: mostly forgotten until the nineteen eighties, when it was revived
Speaker 1: and brought to public attention. Though it was originally settled
Speaker 1: in eighteen forty five by both black and white people,
Speaker 1: Black codes and Jim Crow laws in the years after
Speaker 1: the Civil War fostered segregation in Rosewood and much of
Speaker 1: the South. Employment was provided by pencil factories, but the
Speaker 1: Cedar Tree population soon became decimated, and white families moved
Speaker 1: away in the eighteen nineties and settled in the nearby
Speaker 1: town of Summoner. By the nineteen twenties, Rosewood's population of
Speaker 1: about two hundred was entirely made up of black citizens,
Speaker 1: except for one white family that ran the general store there.
Speaker 1: On January first, nineteen twenty three, in Summer, Florida, or
Speaker 1: Sorry in Sumner, Florida, twenty two year old Fanny Taylor
Speaker 1: was heard screaming by a neighbor. The neighbor found Taylor
Speaker 1: covered in bruises and claiming a black man had entered
Speaker 1: the house and assaulted her. The incident was reported to
Speaker 1: Sheriff Robert Elias Walker, with Taylor's specifying that she had
Speaker 1: not been raped. Fanny Taylor's husband, James Taylor, a foreman
Speaker 1: at the local mill, escalated the situation by gathering an
Speaker 1: angry mob of white citizens to hunt down the culprit.
Speaker 1: He also called for help from white residents in neighboring counties,
Speaker 1: among them a group of about five hundred Ku Klux
Speaker 1: Klan members who were in Gainesville for a rally. White
Speaker 1: mobs prowed the area woods, searching for any black man
Speaker 1: they might find. Law enforcement found out that a black
Speaker 1: prisoner named Jesse Hunter had escaped a chain gang and
Speaker 1: immediately designated him with suspect. The mobs focused their searches
Speaker 1: on a Hunter, convinced that he was being hidden by
Speaker 1: the black residents. Searchers were led by dogs to the
Speaker 1: home of Aaron car Carrier in Rosewood. Carrier was a
Speaker 1: nephew of Sarah Carrier, who did the laundry for Taylor.
Speaker 1: The white men dragged Carrier out of his house, tied
Speaker 1: him to a car, and dragged him to Sumner, where
Speaker 1: he was cut loose and beaten. Sheriff Wagner intervened, putting
Speaker 1: a Carrier in his car and driving him to Gainesville,
Speaker 1: where he was placed under the protective custody of the sheriff. There,
Speaker 1: another mob showed up at the home of blacksmith Sam Carter,
Speaker 1: torturing him until he admitted that he was hiding Hunter
Speaker 1: and agreed to take them to the hiding spot. Carter
Speaker 1: led them to into the woods, but when Hunter failed
Speaker 1: to appear, someone in the mob shot him. His body
Speaker 1: was hung on a tree before the mob moved on,
Speaker 1: meaning he didn't actually know. He just said that he
Speaker 1: couldn't say anything else, all right. The Sheriff's office had
Speaker 1: attempted and failed to break up white mobs and advised
Speaker 1: black workers to stay in their places of employment for safety.
Speaker 1: As many as twenty five people, mostly children, had taken
Speaker 1: refuge in the home of Sarah Carrier when on the
Speaker 1: night of January fourth, armed white men surrounded house in
Speaker 1: the belief that Jesse Hunter was hiding there. Shots were
Speaker 1: fired in the ensuing confrontation. Sarah Carrier was shot in
Speaker 1: the head and died, and her son, Sylvester was also
Speaker 1: killed by a gunwound. Two white attackers were also killed.
Speaker 1: The gun battle and standoff lasted overnight. It ended when
Speaker 1: the door was broken down by white attackers. The children
Speaker 1: inside the house escaped through the back and made their
Speaker 1: way to safety through the woods, where they hid. News
Speaker 1: of the stand off at the Carrier house spread with
Speaker 1: newspapers inflating the number dead and falsely reporting bands of
Speaker 1: armed black citizens going on a rampage. Even more white
Speaker 1: men poured into the area, believing that a race war
Speaker 1: had broken out. Huh. Some of the first targets of
Speaker 1: this influx where the children in Rosewood, which were burned
Speaker 1: sorry the churches in Rosewood, which were burned down. Houses
Speaker 1: were then attacked, first setting fire to them and then
Speaker 1: shooting people as they escape from burning doings. Lexi Gordon
Speaker 1: was one of those murdered, taking a gunshot to her
Speaker 1: face as she hid under her burning house. Gordon had
Speaker 1: sent her children fleeing when white attackers approached, but suffering
Speaker 1: from typhoid fever, she stayed behind. Many Rosewood citizens fled
Speaker 1: to the nearby swamps for safety, spending days hiding in them.
Speaker 1: Some attempted to leave the swamps were turned back by
Speaker 1: men working for the sheriff. James Carrier, brother of Sylvester
Speaker 1: and son of Sarah did manage to get out of
Speaker 1: the swamp and take refuge with the help of a
Speaker 1: local turpentine factory manager. A white mob found him anyhow,
Speaker 1: and forced him to dig a gray for himself before
Speaker 1: murdering him. Others found help from white families willing to
Speaker 1: shelter them. Some black women and children escaped thanks to
Speaker 1: John and William Brice, to wealthy brothers who owned a
Speaker 1: train where the violence and ROAs and familiar with the population,
Speaker 1: the brothers drove their train to the area and invited escapees,
Speaker 1: though refused to take the black men in, afraid of
Speaker 1: being attacked by white moms. Many of those who fled
Speaker 1: by train had been hidden in the home of the
Speaker 1: white general store owner, John Wright, and continued to do
Speaker 1: so throughout the violence. Sheriff Walker helped the terrified residents
Speaker 1: make their way to Wright, who then arranged escape with
Speaker 1: the help of the Brice brothers.
Speaker 3: All Right.
Speaker 1: Florida Governor Carry Hardy offered to send the National Guard
Speaker 1: to help, but Sheriff Walker declined the help, believing that
Speaker 1: he had the situation under control. Mobs began to disperse
Speaker 1: after several days, but on January seventh, many returned to
Speaker 1: finish off the town, burning what little remained of it
Speaker 1: to the ground except for the home of John Wright.
Speaker 1: Special grand Jury and Special Prosecutor were appointed by the
Speaker 1: governor to investigate the violence. The jury heard the testimonies
Speaker 1: of nearly thirty witnesses, mostly white, over several days, but
Speaker 1: claimed not to find enough evidence for prosecution. The surviving
Speaker 1: citizens of Rosewood did not return philforda fearful that the
Speaker 1: horrific bloodshed would recur. The story of Rosewood faded away quickly.
Speaker 1: Most newspapers stopped reporting on it soon after the violence
Speaker 1: had ceased, and many survivors kept quiet about their experience,
Speaker 1: even to subsequent family members. It was in nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: two when Gary Moore, a journalist for the Saint Petersburg Times,
Speaker 1: resurrected the history of Rosewood through a series of articles
Speaker 1: that gained national attention. The living survivors of the massacre
Speaker 1: at that point, all in their eighties and nineties, came forward,
Speaker 1: led by Rosewood descended Arnett Doctor and demanded restitution from Florida.
Speaker 1: The action led to the bill passing sorry. The action
Speaker 1: led to the passing of a bill awarding them two
Speaker 1: million dollars and created an educational fund for descendants. The
Speaker 1: bill also called from an investigation into the matter to
Speaker 1: clarify the events, which Moore took part in. Further awareness
Speaker 1: was created through John Singleton's nineteen ninety seven film Rosewood,
Speaker 1: which dramatized the events and scene.
Speaker 3: So the most shocking thing when we do way black
Speaker 3: history facts and even when we draw stories from our
Speaker 3: past to tie them into things that are happening today,
Speaker 3: is how normal things like earning houses fell of black people,
Speaker 3: and hanging black people and at the stake and shooting
Speaker 3: him in the face and dragging them behind your car.
Speaker 3: It wasn't just normal, it was celebrated. Would they would
Speaker 3: have parties just for these events and bring their children
Speaker 3: and you know what I mean, Like, it's just a
Speaker 3: lot of these people thought or consider themselves decent human
Speaker 3: beings and would and would have been insulted had you
Speaker 3: called them anything different.
Speaker 1: I think that goes back to the point of its
Speaker 1: being very difficult to see privilege. They're just entitled to
Speaker 1: black bodies and can do with us what they wanted,
Speaker 1: And so I'm glad they were having these conversations today.
Speaker 1: So with that said, I think we're gonna wrap it
Speaker 1: up here and then of course follow us on on
Speaker 1: social media at raams joh I am q Ward and
Speaker 1: of course you can follow us at Civic Cipher and
Speaker 1: we'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 2: All right, perect y'all like Yo, we had the label.
Speaker 2: These brothers are fabulous, our ladies showing you where Ron
Speaker 2: traveled this world spik too, from sunlight to move, busting
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Speaker 1: You're like that.
Speaker 2: Journalists with journalists too, we can strike back horb borders
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Speaker 1: We bring it to you as it.
Speaker 2: Happens, the streets, love popped on from music and rapping,
Speaker 2: the street compland the slash week expander. You're gonna fight
Speaker 2: the slander with the proper propaganda.
Speaker 1: What's happening?
Speaker 2: It's hot. You gotta question to ask if Deduce is
Speaker 2: just a TV show you're passing And this from a
Speaker 2: quiet wartime journalists headlines, wake up, pregis and resist like
Speaker 2: this like this, like this, like it it I so