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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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Speaker 1: day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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Speaker 1: important legal news of the day. You can find more

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Speaker 1: episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. Even companies with

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Speaker 1: sophisticated lobbying operations sought knowledgeable insiders to get insight into

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's administration after his election. Pitch as the ultimate insider.

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Speaker 1: His longtime fixer and New York lawyer Michael Cohen, took

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Speaker 1: advantage of this opportunity, and Michael Avanati, the attorney representing

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Speaker 1: adult film star Stormy Daniels, released a document detailing more

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Speaker 1: than four million dollars in payments from companies including A

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Speaker 1: T and T and pharmaceutical company Novartists, to a shell

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Speaker 1: company set up by Cohen. He spoke on Good Morning America.

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Speaker 1: We don't know what advice he was he was giving.

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Speaker 1: Here's what we do know. Each company has given a

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Speaker 1: different reason for attaining Michael Cohen real estate, business consulting,

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Speaker 1: healthcare consulting. The list goes on and on. That was

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Speaker 1: Michael Evanadi, the attorney representing Stormy Daniels joining me is

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Speaker 1: Bradley Moss, a partner at Mark said brad these payments,

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Speaker 1: including that one point two million dollars from novartists, may

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Speaker 1: look bad, but other Trump associates, like former campaign manager

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Speaker 1: Corey Lewandowski, have taken on consulting roles based on their

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Speaker 1: access to Trump. So are these payments illegal in any respect? Oh,

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Speaker 1: It's it's too early to say right now because going

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Speaker 1: to staring in some of the details. So let's separate

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Speaker 1: legal from political optics. From from a pure optics standpoint,

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Speaker 1: it looks terrible this in the sense of this is

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Speaker 1: another example of for our candidate who was going to

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Speaker 1: train the swamp and was constantly trashing Hillary Clinton, what

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Speaker 1: people paying for access? Once he got into office, all

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Speaker 1: of his hanger on like Corl Lewandowski and Michael Cohen

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Speaker 1: did the exact same thing. They were They were bravely

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Speaker 1: selling themselves as the people to talk to and to

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Speaker 1: pay for access to Trump. But from a legal standpoint,

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Speaker 1: it's not quite clear what happened here, if it crossed

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Speaker 1: any actual criminal lines, any or think that anything that

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Speaker 1: would evolve in actual charges. We know that from what

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Speaker 1: has been described of Cohen's activities. He may have been

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Speaker 1: required to have UH signed on as a registers a lobbyist.

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Speaker 1: It's not clear if whatever got far enough for that

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Speaker 1: to be required, but that could be an issue he'd

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Speaker 1: come across. There's questions about his ethical obligations. There's issues

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Speaker 1: about whether or not the funding that was being provided

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Speaker 1: was tied or being intermixed with funding for other things,

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Speaker 1: such as the payment to Stormy Daniels. So it's certain

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Speaker 1: submissions for Cohen on an ethical standpoint, maybe on a

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Speaker 1: legal one with respect to lobbying, but it's not clear

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Speaker 1: yet if there's going to be anything beyond that. You know,

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Speaker 1: people are saying more and more now follow the money,

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Speaker 1: as they did quite some time ago during during water Watergate.

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Speaker 1: But so where did all the money go? Because Cohen

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Speaker 1: has taken out in order to pay his legal bills,

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Speaker 1: He's taken out a second mortgage on his apartment, I believe,

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Speaker 1: So where did all this money go? I think that's

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Speaker 1: certainly something that the Mueller team are excellent. Sorry, the

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Speaker 1: attorneys in Manhattan, in the Southern District of New York

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Speaker 1: that at the U. S. Attorney's Office has been piling

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Speaker 1: through and going through in terms of the information they

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Speaker 1: got from the raids, trying to figure out for a

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Speaker 1: guy who was pulling in such good money, especially in

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Speaker 1: just from that but also in the past he's sold property,

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Speaker 1: is the great amount of markup you know for some

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Speaker 1: million dollars? Why was he so cash strapped? Was he

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Speaker 1: simply over leveraged other areas or was there something more shady,

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Speaker 1: more nefarious that was going into how this money was

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Speaker 1: being brought in. I think that's something that's gonna haunt Mr.

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Speaker 1: Cohen as this case proceeds. There was a half million

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Speaker 1: dollars from Columbus Nova, a company tied to Victor Vexcelberg,

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Speaker 1: Russian oligarch with links to Putin. Mueller's team did talk

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Speaker 1: to Eckelsberg and the chief executive of that firm in November.

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Speaker 1: Does the fact that Mueller handed off that part, the

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Speaker 1: Cohen part of the investigation to the Southern District of

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Speaker 1: New York mean there was no evidence connected to Russian

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Speaker 1: interference in Trump's presidential campaign. I think that's a reasonable

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Speaker 1: conclusion to take right now that if there was anything,

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Speaker 1: even if there was any criminal coordination with this individual

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Speaker 1: that had occurred subsequent to the campaign subsequent to the election,

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Speaker 1: and that it may involve criminal activity that happened in

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Speaker 1: ten but it's not necessarily within the scope of Mueller's mandate.

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Speaker 1: And that's why Rosenstein said, now, you're not going to

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Speaker 1: handle that part. We're gonna let the U. S. Attorney

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Speaker 1: in Manhattan do that. Certainly, anything that the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Attorney's office finds out that is relevant to Muller's investigation,

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Speaker 1: they can share along as as long as they got

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Speaker 1: approval from the higher ups of the oj MA Main Justice.

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Speaker 1: But at the moment, it sounds like this is something

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Speaker 1: tangentially and peripherally related, but not significantly an enough to

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Speaker 1: keep Moller on it. So then you would agree with

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Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani who said the president is not involved. It's

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Speaker 1: a dead issue as far as I'm concerned. Is the

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Speaker 1: issue dead, of course not, it's not dead. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's only been huge warrants. They had a pen register,

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Speaker 1: a tracking phone, loan lives. I mean, certainly there's something

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Speaker 1: here with respect to Mr Cohen, the president's personal attorney,

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Speaker 1: from a criminal standpoint, and appears likely Elmo by no

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Speaker 1: means guaranteed that the president's personal attorney will be indicted,

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Speaker 1: which doesn't speak too well of the President's judgment and

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Speaker 1: the people he has been associating with. But I don't

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Speaker 1: see this particularly limited issue as implicating the president, whether

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Speaker 1: or not Mr Cohen. Ultimately it makes kind of plea

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Speaker 1: deal with the attorney's art in Turner's office and provides

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Speaker 1: cooperating information that's not otherwise attorney client privileged. That's a

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Speaker 1: separate issue and that we just don't know yet. I

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Speaker 1: just want to clarify that Cohen put up his family's

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Speaker 1: apartment as collateral for millions of dollars in loans to

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Speaker 1: his trouble taxi business. Let's talk about this revelation from

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Speaker 1: Michael Avanati. The Treasury Departments Inspector General is investigating whether

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Speaker 1: confidential banking information was leaked. So everyone was saying, where

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Speaker 1: did he get this information from? Yeah, so, you know,

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Speaker 1: I with with the way Mr Avanati is running this,

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Speaker 1: I certainly I think it's a very interesting strategy he's

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Speaker 1: been pursuing. They kept his client's case in the media headlines.

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Speaker 1: You certainly put Michael Cohen and the President on their heels.

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Speaker 1: But I think he's walking up right up to the

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Speaker 1: line at least from an ethical standpoint, it's not a

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Speaker 1: criminal one with how he's pursuing this in particularly in

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Speaker 1: terms of whether or not he's basically soliciting individuals to

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Speaker 1: leak confidential information about confidential I'm talking about tax records,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about banking records that aren't classified that this

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Speaker 1: is privacy protected information by statute, by law, it's not

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Speaker 1: supposed to be a leaked out. So whomever leaked it out,

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Speaker 1: most likely as is justifiably in a position to be

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Speaker 1: fired themselves. It's not criminally charged. Whether we're not Mr

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Speaker 1: Robin Noddy acted in an ethical matter is something for

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Speaker 1: someone else to decide. But I think he's gonna be

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Speaker 1: very careful on how he handled these types of things,

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Speaker 1: or he's going to get a an ethical inquiry at

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Speaker 1: the least that looks into his practice, and I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's what he wants to be dealing with right now.

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Speaker 1: So about thirty seconds, what's next looks always got the

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Speaker 1: Special Master is going to be going through everything still

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Speaker 1: in the co in case. I think we've got a lot.

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Speaker 1: I think we've got more indictments probably coming out in

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Speaker 1: the next few weeks. Anything that mother is gonna do.

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Speaker 1: Has got to come soon before it gets too close

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Speaker 1: to the election. It's only going to get more interesting

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Speaker 1: and more funds from all right. It's always good to

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Speaker 1: talk to you. Brad. That's Bradley Moss. He's a partner

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Speaker 1: at Mark Say. The resignation of Eric Schneiderman as New

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Speaker 1: York's Attorney General was swift following allegations from four women

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Speaker 1: that he physically abused them, allegations he denied. New York's

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Speaker 1: Witner Andrew Cuomo says he called for Sniderman's resignation. If

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Speaker 1: it's the President of the United States, it is the

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Speaker 1: Attorney General of New York. Nobody is above the law.

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Speaker 1: The state Solicitor General, Barbara Underwood, is taking over as

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Speaker 1: the acting a G until a joint session of the

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Speaker 1: state Legislature decides on a replacement and voters decide on

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Speaker 1: a new a G in November. Joining me is Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: News legal reporter Bob van Voris, Bob Barbara Underwood has

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Speaker 1: had a stellar career with a lot of first tell

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Speaker 1: us about her well. Underwood UH is educated at Harvard

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Speaker 1: and UH with top of her class at Georgetown Law School.

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Speaker 1: UM She's spent a lot of time in New York

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Speaker 1: law enforcement. She's very very smart. Everybody that I've talked

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Speaker 1: to has said that the ages hands that the a G.

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Speaker 1: The AS office is in very good hands with Barbara Underwood.

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Speaker 1: She UH after UH. She after a law school clerked

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Speaker 1: with the Supreme Court, and she was a law professor

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Speaker 1: at Yale Law School for past ten years. Well Yale,

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Speaker 1: she made the sort of unusual decision to take a

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Speaker 1: leave of absence and come be a ligne prosecutor here

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Speaker 1: in Manhattan under former U. D. A. Robert Morgan saw Um.

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Speaker 1: After that, she's she took a lot of positions with

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Speaker 1: UH prosecutors in New York City. Also worked as the

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Speaker 1: number two in the Federal Prosecutor's Office in Brooklyn. Uh

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Speaker 1: and is UH now and for the past ten years

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Speaker 1: has been the Solicitor General of New York State. Uh

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Speaker 1: and in that position she is the chief appellate lawyer

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Speaker 1: and and with the number of two persons in the

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Speaker 1: office under Schneiderman Um. She's seventy three years old. As

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Speaker 1: I say, she's got a ton of experience. UM. So

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Speaker 1: people are anticipating that she's going to leave the the

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Speaker 1: office without a heccup. Well, she sent out a press

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Speaker 1: released that very day she took over, and she continues

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Speaker 1: to send them out saying that the work will continue

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Speaker 1: without interruption. Snyderman left behind this massive caseload some very

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Speaker 1: high profile litigation and investigations. Describe some of the main ones. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Schneiderman has been very high profile nationally. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: he was in a position the New York a g

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Speaker 1: as somebody who's always mentioned as a potential candidate for

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Speaker 1: the governor's mansion. UM, but he was opposing President Trump

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Speaker 1: on a number of issues, including the travel band, UH,

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Speaker 1: anti LGBT measures, access to contraception for women. UM. Underwood

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Speaker 1: has put out releases, as he said, UM, just letting

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Speaker 1: people know that the efforts are going forward. Just in

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Speaker 1: the last couple of days, she has issued UH press

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Speaker 1: releases on clean power, net neutrality, and help care funding

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Speaker 1: in New York State, UM, and there were lawyers lawyers

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Speaker 1: for the state were in federal court just yesterday on

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Speaker 1: an issue about the census, where the state is opposing

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Speaker 1: a Trump plan to to ask about citizenship on the

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Speaker 1: on the census. Bob Let's talk about her the replacement

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Speaker 1: for the interim position, A lot of names of women

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Speaker 1: are being floated. That's right, Um, the state legislature is

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Speaker 1: going to name a replacement. A lot of women have

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Speaker 1: been mentioned, including New York City Public Advocate Letitia James, Uh,

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Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor Kerry Cohen, Uh and UH and some others. Um.

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Speaker 1: There have also been a number of names floated for people.

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Speaker 1: You know, after somebody has appointed, somebody's going to have

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Speaker 1: to run in November when the office comes up again

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Speaker 1: for election. Some of the names that have been mentioned

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Speaker 1: for a possible run include Benjamin Losskey, He's New York's

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Speaker 1: former top financial regulator. Zephyrt teach Out, she's a former

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Speaker 1: a Fordham Law School professor who ran against Cuomo in

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Speaker 1: Governor Cuomo in the primary unsuccessfully, UH and Pre Barra.

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Speaker 1: Pre of course is the former UH Southern District of

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Speaker 1: New York u S attorney who was fired by Trump

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Speaker 1: last year in in March and has been a big

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Speaker 1: Trump critics sense, and that would be a very interesting

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Speaker 1: race if just some of those people decided to run.

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Speaker 1: I want to turn for a moment to the investigation

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Speaker 1: over Schneiderman's conduct, and there's been a bit of a

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Speaker 1: turf war over it, and the win is going to

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Speaker 1: the Nassau County d A. How did that happen? Well,

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Speaker 1: so far, that's right. UM. Cuomo asked the Nassau County

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Speaker 1: d A to investigate, uh, the the conduct of Snyderman.

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Speaker 1: Obviously some of the things that were alleged UH, some

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Speaker 1: of the behavior alleged against him could be uh could

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Speaker 1: be crimes and are going to be investigated. UM. The

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Speaker 1: uh Nassau County Prosecutor has said she has no plans

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Speaker 1: to run for or or be accept appointment as the

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Speaker 1: Attorney general. And UH. The backstory for why Cuomo uh

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Speaker 1: isn't um is selected the Nassau County prosecutors because the

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Speaker 1: Manhattan prosecutors side vance um uh. He Cuomo had asked

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Speaker 1: Sniderman to look into vances um conduct in connection with

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Speaker 1: the investigation of Harvey Weinstein uh in, who was being

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Speaker 1: investigated for a his his actions with regard to an

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Speaker 1: Italian model UM, and to sort of prevent there from

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Speaker 1: being any questions about the independence of the investigation, He's

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Speaker 1: asked the NASA County prosecutor to look into it. It

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Speaker 1: is a long and winding road, as you described it.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Bob. Always a pleasure to have you on.

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Speaker 1: That's Bloomberg News Legal reporter Bob ben Boris. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can subscribe and

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Speaker 1: listen to the show on Apple podcast, SoundCloud, and on

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Speaker 1: bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso. This is

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg