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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Scott So, I'm Evan, Novie Williams, I'm Randall Williams,

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Speaker 1: and I'm Michael bar And this is the Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: of Sports podcast where we nobody nothing, no, no, no no, no,

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Speaker 1: we're number by the way to Williams. Now, that's what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying is you know we got two surnames. Do

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Speaker 1: you wait? Wait? I don't think you've ever been asked this.

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Speaker 1: The underscore in his Twitter handle thumbs up thumbs down

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Speaker 1: of all the options. It's not that what's wrong with

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Speaker 1: it's not good. There's nothing wrong. Nobody wants to utilize

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Speaker 1: underscore if you don't have to, and he doesn't have to.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if it's taken, then it's taken. It still

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Speaker 1: has his name, and you know, Enovie Williams, there's you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a million things he could have done without. You

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Speaker 1: don't have to go to the underscore. That's like you're pressed.

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Speaker 1: That's last resort. All press is good press. The more

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Speaker 1: we talk about it, the more the name gets out there.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk to you, uh, just share some things

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Speaker 1: about some of the big sports stories, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about Dan Lebotarde. But the ESPN to start out. Uh,

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Speaker 1: for people who don't know now, and they're not using

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Speaker 1: the words suspended. But he was not on the air

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Speaker 1: because he mentioned something about well, I think he went

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Speaker 1: a little beyond mentioned. Yeah, he got a little now.

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Speaker 1: But the key to the whole thing is there is

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Speaker 1: a company policy ESPN they do not want. Jimmy Petaro,

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Speaker 1: who took over not long ago, was quite clear, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we are not to be talking politics. They don't. People

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Speaker 1: don't come to us ESPN for political talk. They come

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Speaker 1: to us for sports. So as they have as many

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Speaker 1: athletes have heard, he told everybody stick to sports. See now,

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Speaker 1: you can work it in if you're talking about Greg Popovich,

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Speaker 1: who you know, he has his political views and Steve

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Speaker 1: Kerr has his political views. But when you go off

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Speaker 1: on your own, ESPN does not like. I think that's

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Speaker 1: an important distinction because Jimmy Petarro, the president of ESPN,

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Speaker 1: his policy is no pure politics. Right. We can dive

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Speaker 1: into it, as you said, Michael, when a coach or

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Speaker 1: an athlete brings up a political issue, but we on

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Speaker 1: our own are not going to go into it. And

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Speaker 1: Dan Lebotard stepped in big right after that rally in

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Speaker 1: North Carolina. Yeah he can. Yeah. So he both called

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Speaker 1: President Trump an American cowardly and you know, deliberately trying

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Speaker 1: to so discontent between groups in America. But as you said, Scott,

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Speaker 1: he also criticized the way in which ESPN talks about politics,

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Speaker 1: and he called the shield week at one point, kind

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Speaker 1: of the separation between not giving your opinions until you're

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Speaker 1: talking about an athlete who might share your opinions. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, there's you know it's as of Monday morning,

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Speaker 1: Dan Lebotard is not going to be on the radio today.

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Speaker 1: He will be on TV. From what people have reported,

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Speaker 1: this was a choice of Dan's that he wasn't in

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Speaker 1: the right frame of mind, I believe, is how it

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Speaker 1: was phrased to be on the radio today. Do you

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Speaker 1: think there's a suspension coming? I mean, what do we

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Speaker 1: expect coming up here? For? I would expect that Dan

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Speaker 1: and Jimmy had a nice discussion and the company because

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Speaker 1: of things like this, um who was suspended? Who was suspended?

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Speaker 1: She didn't even criticize the company policy, she just made

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Speaker 1: comments about the president. Right. So, as I have often

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Speaker 1: said about ESPN, I think the shoulder programming, everything that

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Speaker 1: is not a live sporting event on ESPN doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: a whole much that the money is in the live

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Speaker 1: events and aggregating the eyeballs. I know, stephen A. Smith

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Speaker 1: is everywhere every day and they can monetize the pod

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Speaker 1: and a show and then down on General Hospital. Yeah, yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: I do know, and and I like stephen A. I think.

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Speaker 1: I think what he's done is brilliant. He was one

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Speaker 1: of the first to really sort of grab the entertainment

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Speaker 1: aspect of it all. And let me tell you, yes,

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Speaker 1: he does make a mistake every now and then, and

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Speaker 1: we do too. I mean, you're microphones in front of

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Speaker 1: as much as he does. I can't believe it's make

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Speaker 1: more mistakes that that's about him. But it's still shoulder programming.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the day, when ESPN will analyze

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Speaker 1: what's so valuable that we can't do without, I do

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Speaker 1: not believe there is a single person on that payroll

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Speaker 1: that would fall into that category, and stephen A would

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Speaker 1: be number one on the valuable list, But it ain't

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Speaker 1: live sports, which is what aggregates the eyeballs, which is

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Speaker 1: what makes ESPN what it is. And Dan Lebotard would

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Speaker 1: also be fairly high on fairly high on that. But

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Speaker 1: he's one of the more popular. You know, he does TV,

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Speaker 1: he does radio as well. Um, the show will go on.

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Speaker 1: It will be hard to imagine anything without stephen A. Smith.

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Speaker 1: I'll keep it honest. Um, he's he's to my generation,

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Speaker 1: he's a meme. I mean, he just generates so much. Um.

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Speaker 1: Of course, But the question, but this is the financial

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Speaker 1: question that I would ask you and your friends if

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Speaker 1: stephen A was not on NBA Countdown or whatever ever

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Speaker 1: the show. I really don't know what show he's a

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Speaker 1: first first take, Okay, are you not watching because he's

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Speaker 1: not there? And by the way, don't monetize that like

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Speaker 1: they do live sports. Are you still watching ESPN when

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Speaker 1: they have a big time college basketball game, when they

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Speaker 1: have an ESPN football game, are you still watching? I'm

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Speaker 1: still gonna watch the football games. That's the point. That's

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Speaker 1: where they make their money. You're not going to shut

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Speaker 1: off ESPN because stephen A is not there or any

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Speaker 1: there Isn't anybody give me somebody on that roster worth

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Speaker 1: they weren't there. You are no longer an ESPN viewer

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Speaker 1: or listener. I don't think. I don't think there's anyone.

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Speaker 1: I would just say that in the casual watching of

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Speaker 1: ESPN when they don't play the games and you're tuning

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Speaker 1: in for for different people, Stephen A. Smith is number one,

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Speaker 1: and without him, I'm not gonna watch First Take. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm probably not gonna watch NBA Countdown if he's not

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Speaker 1: on there as well. But in the grand scheme of things,

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Speaker 1: there aren't that many that do. Fox essentially tried this

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Speaker 1: by paying Skip Bayliss a ton of money to take

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Speaker 1: him from ESPN. From what understand, their ratings are not

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Speaker 1: all that great. I don't think that the the tremendous

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Speaker 1: audience that that that Skip Bayliss had when he was

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Speaker 1: on ESPN has necessarily followed over to Fox just because

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Speaker 1: he changed. Now, ESPN makes the star, not the other

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Speaker 1: way around, and some people have learned that the hard way.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about l s U twenty five million nales

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Speaker 1: worth of Have you seen this locker room? Yes, looks

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Speaker 1: like my apartment. You wish perfect like that? No, he

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Speaker 1: means just one lock one locker looks like it's got

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Speaker 1: a nice chair. Oh man, at that place, it's like

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Speaker 1: a palace. Yeah. The l s U just unveiled its

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Speaker 1: new Football Operations building, twenty eight million dollar renovation. It

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Speaker 1: looks you're right, random, It looks like a spaceship. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's there's leather bound chairs. Every single locker has its

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Speaker 1: own iPad kind of built into it. The chairs reclined

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Speaker 1: into sleeping pods. There's a new foods set up, you know,

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Speaker 1: cafeteria right now store. Uh. And you know this is

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Speaker 1: all to say that L s U is not unique, right,

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Speaker 1: We've seen so many other college football programs spend tens

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Speaker 1: of millions of dollars updating these facilities. The edifice complex

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Speaker 1: goes far beyond just the stadium. These days, they're they're

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Speaker 1: recruiting is gonna be insane. I can't I can't begin

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Speaker 1: to imagine, you know, being on that campus and being like, hey,

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Speaker 1: take a look at a locker room, and you're in

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Speaker 1: there for three hours and you're looking at something new.

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Speaker 1: What would seem like every second. It's funny Eric read

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Speaker 1: that the safety for the Carolina Panthers. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you saw his tweet this morning, but he was

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Speaker 1: saying that seven years ago when he was at l

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Speaker 1: s U, the lockers that he had were better than

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Speaker 1: the ones that the Panthers have in the NFL right now, right,

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Speaker 1: So that's at least one iteration before this new one

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Speaker 1: that l s U laid out. But I'm so if

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Speaker 1: I'm a star recruit, bar you know you were a

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Speaker 1: star bowling recruit, you don't know if he wants bowled

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Speaker 1: to nine and missed the very last one, left one pin,

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Speaker 1: that's crazy left nine. But that's another story. If I'm

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Speaker 1: a top recruit and I am going to look at obviously,

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Speaker 1: if I'm being recruited to play football at l s U,

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Speaker 1: I probably have the option to go to USC, to Michigan,

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Speaker 1: you know the top Alabama, at the top of the top, Clemson,

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Speaker 1: Ohio State. I'm gonna throw in Circus in there, just

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Speaker 1: just to records, you know all those tops. Um is

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Speaker 1: this making? If this is the difference maker? But what

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Speaker 1: the coach am I going to? All these things are

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Speaker 1: far more important than do I get to recline with

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Speaker 1: a DVD in a sleep? The food you get it,

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Speaker 1: I get it. But you can buy an L s

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Speaker 1: U and then you just have this just palace of

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Speaker 1: a of a locker room and you put that those

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Speaker 1: programs together. If Alabama had a locker room, like, this's

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Speaker 1: got a great to Scott's credit, I would agree just

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Speaker 1: because because when it comes I would say, when it

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Speaker 1: comes with recruiting, it comes down to you know who's

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Speaker 1: winning in Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Michigan. And although l

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Speaker 1: s U was going to have this twenty million dollar

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Speaker 1: locker room, they haven't won an SEC title. That's true.

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Speaker 1: I don't disagree with you, but man that it's a

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Speaker 1: nice place to go back to and huddle. But for

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Speaker 1: the speech from your coach, if you just got whoo

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Speaker 1: by Alabama, there's a there's getting your pod and I

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Speaker 1: talking about Trevor Lawrence throwing like Alabama's locker room has

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Speaker 1: a cactus man and turtles running across it. Man, I

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Speaker 1: got a Bason locker room. But man, this this this

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Speaker 1: is out of site. There's there's research on this exact question.

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Speaker 1: The last year athletic director, you put out a study

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Speaker 1: um dating back to two thousand two for college basketball

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Speaker 1: in two thousand three for college football, analyzing recruiting classes

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Speaker 1: before and after brand new facilities opened up, and they

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Speaker 1: found that outside of the one year after the facility opened,

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Speaker 1: which got like a half a percent or maybe something

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Speaker 1: less than one percent jump. There was no statistical signal

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Speaker 1: of against opening these things up, like when when Princeton

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Speaker 1: wanted the top light football player from hundred County or

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Speaker 1: from Essex County, Essex County that one year they did

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Speaker 1: all they good to swing Mr. No, I was not

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Speaker 1: by football. They like everything light there that would be

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Speaker 1: fun um. The one other I mean thing I think

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Speaker 1: we're talking about here, if it doesn't affect recruiting as

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Speaker 1: much as these colleges pretend that it does. The truth

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Speaker 1: is that schools like l s U which makes over

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Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty million dollars a year on athletics alone,

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Speaker 1: because they don't pay their athletes have they just they

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Speaker 1: don't have things to spend it to spend it on

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Speaker 1: or on former teacher of one Scottsnik and order on.

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Speaker 1: You know, he makes three point five million dollars a year.

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Speaker 1: You know, they pay a lot of coaches a lot

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Speaker 1: of money um. And at the end they're still money

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Speaker 1: left over. And one of the ways they can spend

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Speaker 1: it so at the end of the year it looks

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Speaker 1: like they've balanced their books and they don't have the

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Speaker 1: money for athletes is they do things like this, a

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Speaker 1: twenty eight million dollar renovation to renovate a locker room

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Speaker 1: that was already seven years ago, nicer than NFL locker rooms.

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Speaker 1: Silly doesn't make sense to me. There you go, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about Dish, Dish TV, and there's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: lot where they're already are a lot of problems and

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Speaker 1: it's about to get real. There's a there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of it's called going dark in these pricing disputes. Dish,

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Speaker 1: which is known in the industry as one of the

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Speaker 1: tougher negotiators in these things. They're already in a fight

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Speaker 1: with Meredith. So you've got a bunch of station Meredith stations.

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Speaker 1: HBO is not on Dish right now. And now you've

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Speaker 1: got sort of this triad of entities also negotiating with this.

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Speaker 1: You've got Fox and FS one, Fox Sports, those channels

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Speaker 1: are coming up. You've got not g O and some

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Speaker 1: of those channels coming up. And you've also got some

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Speaker 1: r sents. And the hard part here is these are

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Speaker 1: being negotiated by different entities. Fox is handling FS one,

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Speaker 1: Fox Sports, Disney is handling sort of the nut GEOFX discussions.

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Speaker 1: Those rs n s are being talked they're being led

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Speaker 1: by an entity because remember they were Fox rs ns

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Speaker 1: sold to Disney, which are now on the way to Sinclair.

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Speaker 1: But that deal hasn't been closed yet, so you have

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Speaker 1: this third third party entity that was chosen by Fox

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Speaker 1: to independently negotiate new carriage deals. Meanwhile Sinclair's in the

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Speaker 1: background saying, WHOA nothing long term here, because you know,

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Speaker 1: we'd like to sort of have control over what will

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Speaker 1: soon they hope b R. And keep in mind too

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Speaker 1: that Dish. They're all kind of hard negotiators over there,

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Speaker 1: so you throw that in the mix and you have

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Speaker 1: all this happened. Yeah, And and dish also means Sling

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Speaker 1: TV for for the folks out there that don't you know,

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Speaker 1: don't understand if you want one of the big more

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Speaker 1: popular cats network on Sling. I don't know how many

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Speaker 1: people in the New York area would catch yes on

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Speaker 1: Sling but or outside of the Ark area, but that's

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Speaker 1: one of those things that could be going to Sling

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Speaker 1: is about to be slung if they don't boy like

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, I have a potentially stupid question here.

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Speaker 1: As you said, Michael, dishes and a number one A

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Speaker 1: number of these disputes, it certainly seems as though they

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Speaker 1: negotiate harder than maybe some other you know, in these

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Speaker 1: carriage agreements. If I'm a Dish subscriber, am I thankful

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Speaker 1: that Dishes at least fighting from my costs? Or am

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Speaker 1: I livid that because they're not willing to reach a

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Speaker 1: deal here, I'm potentially losing out on Yes Network or

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Speaker 1: f X or not Geo or Fox Sports. I think

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Speaker 1: you need to answer the question this way, Van, what

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Speaker 1: do you care about seeing? Sometimes you pick providers based

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Speaker 1: on exclusivity. That that was the big hit for direct

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Speaker 1: TV was Sunday Ticket. So I mean, if they have

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Speaker 1: something you want to see, Like if I would love

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Speaker 1: Game of Thrones and all of a sudden, HBO is

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Speaker 1: not on Dish, you're upset. I think you're willing to

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Speaker 1: pay the whatever dollar to whatever it may be. I

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Speaker 1: understand what you're talking about, just simply acquiescing and just

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Speaker 1: here's you know, we're just gonna pass this cost onto

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Speaker 1: the customer, which is oftentimes what happened. I think if

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Speaker 1: I was Dish, I would be putting together like an

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Speaker 1: ad campaign, that's all. It is. The carrier that fights

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Speaker 1: for fights for your bill not to go off these statements, man,

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Speaker 1: I mean, they can just dust them off, put in

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Speaker 1: the channel changed it. This has been going on for

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Speaker 1: so how many times. And and my favorite one, I

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Speaker 1: know didn't finish that sentence here, but my favorite one

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Speaker 1: of all time was sort of the Time Warner MSG

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Speaker 1: dispute when Time Warner, which is big in the New

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Speaker 1: York area, had a pricing dispute with MSG, and it

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Speaker 1: came do in the middle of the season, and just

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Speaker 1: at that time, there was this point guard in New

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Speaker 1: York named Jeremy Lynn who nobody had heard of, began

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Speaker 1: hitting winning shots and the Knicks. I mean it was

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Speaker 1: at the point where you'd walk down the streets of

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Speaker 1: New York and all the windows of the bars and

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Speaker 1: the restaurants were open and people were watching the Knicks.

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Speaker 1: That's that guy single handedly forced that agreement. Lynn sanity

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Speaker 1: took hold, and they he forced Time Warner MSG to

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Speaker 1: get together and make a deal because the programming had

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Speaker 1: become so valuable to so many people. And just to

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Speaker 1: describe exactly what's happening here, carriers like Dish and Sling

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Speaker 1: have to negotiate agreements with networks like FX, like Fox

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Speaker 1: Sports one, etcetera. For the price that they paid to

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Speaker 1: be able to offer that to subscribe per month, and

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Speaker 1: those sub fees and those prices carry over typically to

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Speaker 1: the consumer. Right, So Dish is essentially negotiating on behalf

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Speaker 1: of its subscribers about how much it's willing to pay

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Speaker 1: for Fox because how much of its customers I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: make because I don't know what a Dish Let's say

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Speaker 1: the cheapest monthly subscription numbers, but I don't know. This

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Speaker 1: is a made up number for Dish. When this is over,

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Speaker 1: it'll probably be one. Yeah. I mean, so whatever whatever

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Speaker 1: costs they have to pay in the increase. It's not

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Speaker 1: like they say maybe we'll just you know, suck it up.

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Speaker 1: This getting pass and real quick the you said, Scott,

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Speaker 1: you know this is not These carriage agreements have happened

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Speaker 1: for a long time. There's a big one right now.

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Speaker 1: But between CBS. Do we think that in you know,

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Speaker 1: in this world where you know, more people are forgetting

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Speaker 1: cable altogether for for some of these O T T packages,

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Speaker 1: is it becoming more common to have these disputes now

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Speaker 1: or does it just seem that way? How do it's

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Speaker 1: more common you're probably hearing about them a lot more,

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Speaker 1: and you're also seeing a lot of these networks sort

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Speaker 1: of pulled back, like Netflix is losing friends. You know,

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Speaker 1: you got the skinny bundles and you've got everybody with

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Speaker 1: their own O T T. Again, it's gonna come down

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Speaker 1: to the content. What do you want to see? How

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Speaker 1: can you best piece meal these offerings where you're paying

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Speaker 1: less than what I think people the widespread notions at

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Speaker 1: the cable bundle isn't a good value. And I sort

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Speaker 1: of argue the other side. I think the industry is

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Speaker 1: a terrible job at the messaging of look at all

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Speaker 1: you get? And the example I would always give is

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Speaker 1: if I all right, Randall, you go to a movie,

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Speaker 1: you and two buddies go to a movie, you get

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Speaker 1: a soda in the popcorn? What do you pay? Where

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Speaker 1: am I? And you're in Manhattan two hours? If you

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Speaker 1: go with three people me individually like probably around so

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Speaker 1: it's thirty five dollars for two hours, and your cable

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Speaker 1: company can say for one t you get seven for

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Speaker 1: thirty days. Through the math, like where does it come

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Speaker 1: off that this is a bad entertainment? You can stay

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Speaker 1: at home and watch the movies. Where does this come

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Speaker 1: off as a bad deal for you in a world

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Speaker 1: where that option costs you immensely more for two hour windows?

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Speaker 1: Do you pay for cable? I don't, my dad does.

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Speaker 1: But I think ultimately for a customer, it just comes

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Speaker 1: down to, you know, it's like you said, you know,

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Speaker 1: what are you losing? If some of my favorite shows

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Speaker 1: were off of cable, then I would be upset and

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Speaker 1: you're like, I'll take the ten dollar raise, just get

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Speaker 1: me my show bad just because you know it's all

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Speaker 1: about now and if you missed that episode, and then

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Speaker 1: the way social media works, you're gonna you're bound the spoilers.

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Speaker 1: And if it's if it's sports, then you have to

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Speaker 1: stream it someway, you gotta figure out a way to

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Speaker 1: watch it. Um So, I think as I'm glad you

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Speaker 1: said the sports aspect of it, because, like we said,

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Speaker 1: embroiled In, this could be Fox Sports FS. One dish

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Speaker 1: has to know. Looking forward as we get toward late

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Speaker 1: August and early September, there's a little thing called football season.

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Speaker 1: LeVert swings the other way because people do want their football.

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Speaker 1: That's one of those things that if you don't provide that,

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Speaker 1: people might one other thing on those r sns, the

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Speaker 1: bulk of them are going to be if this deal closes,

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Speaker 1: are going to be controlled by Sinclair soon, right, it

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Speaker 1: could even be this month or next month. How does

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Speaker 1: that If I'm Sinclair, I don't want anybody else negotiating

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Speaker 1: these agreements for me. I don't want well that you

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Speaker 1: can be isn't gonna own these three bad deal and

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Speaker 1: hand it over to Sinclair when the deal You can

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Speaker 1: be sure that the you know Mr Ripley over at

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Speaker 1: Sinclair guest on this show previously, is not saying, go ahead,

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Speaker 1: negotiate it, twenty five year deal. We're good. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're saying whatever deal is being discussed, you know, for

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Speaker 1: that for those entities short term, because there's going to

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Speaker 1: be a new owner in town. But does Disneys have

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Speaker 1: any incentive to do that? I mean, what this is

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Speaker 1: an asset that Disney isn't going to own in potentially

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Speaker 1: in two weeks. Why why do they have any incentive

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Speaker 1: to kind of deal that's anything that Sinclair wants or

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Speaker 1: is even network friendly, because this is a I mean,

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Speaker 1: these guys do business quite often with each other. It's

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Speaker 1: not it's not a one off, you know, and Sinclair's

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Speaker 1: a pretty powerful distributor, so you know their stations will

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Speaker 1: be carrying ESPN two and I mean too, I mean

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Speaker 1: also so uh, you know you're not gonna go off

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Speaker 1: and negotiate. It doesn't make sense for anybody. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: meandn't waste the time and power. But it does seem

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Speaker 1: weird that the people who are negotiating this deal are

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Speaker 1: not the people that are going to have to deal

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Speaker 1: with the business ramifications of the deal absolutely, which is

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Speaker 1: what makes this scenario where you're talking about the normal

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Speaker 1: ones like a T and T and see, that's what

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Speaker 1: makes this scenario so interesting, and that you've got three

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Speaker 1: different entities negotiating these contracts and you just must be like,

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Speaker 1: all right, wait, who am I talking today? What am

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Speaker 1: I talking about? Okay, got it? You know? And yes,

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Speaker 1: you're right. All I know is don't touch my Perry Mason. Now.

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Speaker 1: If someone takes my Perry Mason off, I'm mad. And

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Speaker 1: now now we got some fighting words. Perry Mason is

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Speaker 1: remember the one he almost lost? He lost that one.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was great that you've been listening to

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast. We are here every

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Speaker 1: Monday's Wednesdays and Thursdays for you talking about some of

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Speaker 1: the biggest news in sports. I'm Michael barn you can

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Speaker 1: follow me at Big Bar Sports. I'm Evan Williams at

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Speaker 1: nov Underscore Williams. I'm Randall Williams and you can follow

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Speaker 1: me at at Randall Williams. All of the elves are

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Speaker 1: eyes and my at that nobody has any idea how

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Speaker 1: to to find you. Yeah, why don't you put yourself

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Speaker 1: an underscore in there since you're still big on you

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Speaker 1: for the heck of underscore Williams whatever, And I'm Scott Satis.

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Speaker 1: You can find me at Sashnik and join us again

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Speaker 1: later in the week when we talk with Peter Moore,

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Speaker 1: chairman of Liverpool Football Club, right edic CEO CEO. Alright,

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Speaker 1: also e a sports former CEO. It's gonna be in studio.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have some fun with Peter Moore. You're listening

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Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio around the

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Speaker 1: world and online. Wherever do you get your podcasts