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Speaker 1: What's violating my OSHA guidelines. I'm Robert Evans, the host

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Speaker 1: of Behind the Bastards, the podcast where we tell you

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Speaker 1: everything you don't know about the very worst people in

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Speaker 1: all of history. And today my guests Cody Johnston, Katie Stole.

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Speaker 1: How are you guys doing great? Oh yeah, we're we're here.

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Speaker 1: We're alive. We just recorded worst year ever and now

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Speaker 1: we're recording we did and you know, I made a little,

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Speaker 1: very subtle reference to violating ocean. Now you want to

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Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about the objects that I've

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Speaker 1: assembled on the table here. Well, we got okay, we

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Speaker 1: got some English muffins wrapped in twine. We've got a

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Speaker 1: bag in mini bagels. I've got him at machete that's

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Speaker 1: the Billy Wayne Davis podcast. We've got a large knife,

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Speaker 1: kitchen knife, and Sophie's got a which blade gave Sophie

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Speaker 1: my walking around knife. It's everyday night, your standard, miss standard. Yet.

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Speaker 1: And that's not to mention all the various snacks and

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Speaker 1: beverages that are also on this table. But I think

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Speaker 1: these are the items you were referring to. So the

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Speaker 1: twine wrapped around this entire box of Thomas brand English

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Speaker 1: muffins with the the original nooks and crannies. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a sling, shepherd sling. Um, it's a it's

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Speaker 1: an it's a weapon from the ancient world that a

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Speaker 1: fan of ours, a fan of mine, made very generously,

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Speaker 1: specifically to throw bagels. But we're out of bagels. I

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Speaker 1: threw quite a few of them and did some damage

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Speaker 1: to the other recording room when Sophia was in here

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Speaker 1: and we talked about the Fallwell family. One of the

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Speaker 1: things I've learned, Uh. One thing I haven't learned about

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Speaker 1: how to use this is how to make anything I

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Speaker 1: throw go in the direction I wanted to. Oh, you

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Speaker 1: don't know how to aim? It appears to be impossible,

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Speaker 1: But I have not. I have refused to read the

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Speaker 1: very helpful guidelines that the creator of this object left me,

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Speaker 1: and instead have just been recklessly tossing things. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think, uh, step one fling, you step one thing

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Speaker 1: and no other steptep step to watch. Didn't they advise

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Speaker 1: that you never use it indoors? Yes? Um? Now, so

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Speaker 1: when I started experimenting with this, uh, and and it

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Speaker 1: really is that I couldn't control the direction of it.

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Speaker 1: I also realized that the best thing to do would

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Speaker 1: be to play a little game where I fling packages

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Speaker 1: of bread based food products at y'all, and you all

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Speaker 1: have large knives to try to knock them out of

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Speaker 1: the air, much like a pinata, but flinging into the air. However,

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Speaker 1: since I can't direct the device the objects to go

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Speaker 1: where I want them to go, I figured the safest

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Speaker 1: thing to do would be to arm everyone in the

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Speaker 1: room with a different kind of bladed objects, stand in

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Speaker 1: different areas well. It's also the best steel that counts

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Speaker 1: for a lots of there's not a lot of. I

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Speaker 1: did not bring enough machete. All steel can defend you

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Speaker 1: from a bread product. And I'm sorry. It's not the

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Speaker 1: size that matters, it's how much steel is there. The

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Speaker 1: size does matter. Give me the machete. Wow, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I have not decided who gets what you guys. I

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Speaker 1: feel like whoever gets the machete Sophie, Sophie wants to

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Speaker 1: know you want to be that's not going to work. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is not a democracy. This is not a democracy.

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Speaker 1: Give me the ess In between the recording of Worst

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Speaker 1: You're Ever and behind the master pus or, Sophie becomes

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Speaker 1: a Republican radicalized. Wow, so we're not gonna fling objects

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Speaker 1: around the room, um with dangerous weapons and everyone stands

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Speaker 1: quite yet quite just yet, okay, quite yet finished. That's

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Speaker 1: what we call I don't know what we call that.

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Speaker 1: I'm not aware of other podcasts that do this. Well,

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Speaker 1: you're the only podcast I am. What do we what

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Speaker 1: are we talking about today? What are we talking about today?

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Speaker 1: Have you guys noticed some clowns I hate all around

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Speaker 1: the internet, in people's posts and like Twitter profiles of

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Speaker 1: people and like online people dressing up like cloents of prose? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I see some clowns around. Yeah, because known as the

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Speaker 1: President of the United States shared a video themed after

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Speaker 1: take on Me that at one point has one of

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Speaker 1: the people he's talking to, uh in clown did not

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Speaker 1: for some strange reason, why did not happened? To today's

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Speaker 1: about why are the clowns all over the place these days?

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Speaker 1: A couple of kinds of clowns, actually a couple of

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Speaker 1: kinds of clowns. So in our modern era of shiny

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Speaker 1: new fascist movements tromping through the streets in various guises,

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Speaker 1: the kind of folks who don't like fascism have found

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Speaker 1: themselves at a bit of a crossroads. At one end

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Speaker 1: are the Black Block and the Antifa, who have become

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Speaker 1: the boogie men and women of Breathless TV anchors. These

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Speaker 1: people say fascists need to be outnumbered, overwhelmed, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: even confronted with physical violence in order to force them

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Speaker 1: off the streets. And on the other end of things,

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Speaker 1: you have folks who believe the best action is no action.

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Speaker 1: If we ignore the fascists, they'll go away, and confronting

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Speaker 1: them in the street only earns them sympathy. Most in

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Speaker 1: the activist community tend to land in the middle, advocating

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Speaker 1: a diversity of tactics, and for years one of the

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Speaker 1: most prominent tactics was clown based mockery. And we're going

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Speaker 1: on a little bit of a journey for this one,

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Speaker 1: so I hope you're all excited. The history of clowns

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Speaker 1: as organized parts of activit goes back at least as

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Speaker 1: far as two thousand three, when a small group in

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Speaker 1: the UK formed the Clandestine Insurgent Rebel Clown Army or Circle.

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Speaker 1: They trained cadres of clowns who would show up at

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Speaker 1: the front lines of protests and confront right police with

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Speaker 1: seltzer water, honking red noses and that one weird sculptrip

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Speaker 1: clowns do um I presume now um Their purpose was

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Speaker 1: mostly to boost the spirits of activists dealing with police violence,

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Speaker 1: washing mace out of their eyes and cringing away from

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Speaker 1: truncheons and such. At their height, circle had around a

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty professional clowns in Edinburgh, Scotland alone, and

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Speaker 1: cadres performed in other cities in Europe and the United States.

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Speaker 1: So that's cool, cool, sounds nice. Still hate clowns, Still

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Speaker 1: hate clowns more or less okay with those clowns. Um,

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Speaker 1: you might say that a guy like Vermin Supreme today

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like the modern incarnation of that attitude

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Speaker 1: towards clowning at protests where it exists a kind of distress. Everybody,

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Speaker 1: de escalate things, distract people. Yeah, there's yeah, there's a

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Speaker 1: sense of a yeah, de escalating and sort of like me,

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Speaker 1: like this is we're having this is a silly time.

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Speaker 1: This is a silly time. We can have some fun

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Speaker 1: with it. But also the thing fascists hate the most

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Speaker 1: is being mocked and not taken seriously. They hate it.

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Speaker 1: We're going to get to that goodness. Yeah, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a that's the sea, and I think it's a

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Speaker 1: complicated issue. Just discussed touch on that, yeah now um.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, the National Socialist Movement decided

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Speaker 1: to hold a parade on the capital steps of Olympia, Washington.

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Speaker 1: It was to be your standard Nazi affair, a dozen

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Speaker 1: ish guys in uniforms waving flags, trying to trigger people.

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Speaker 1: The ostensible goal of the march was recruitment, which the

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Speaker 1: group could sorely use. A year or so later, the

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Speaker 1: National Socialist Movement would barely be able to scrape together

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Speaker 1: eighty people from across the entire United States. So, according

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Speaker 1: to the Seattle Times, instead of shouting or worse, attacking,

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Speaker 1: protesters dressed up as Nazi clowns to mimic the rally.

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Speaker 1: Ever see a Nazi clown goose stepping, it was like

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Speaker 1: springtime for Hitler. David NewART, the journalists covering fascism since

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Speaker 1: forever says, after a time onlooker seemed to forget about

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Speaker 1: the deflated white nationalists entirely. That was the most striking

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Speaker 1: defeat I've ever seen dealt to neo Nazis, and Neward

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Speaker 1: still kind of holds this line. That's the most effective

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Speaker 1: way that you can. You can confront these people in

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Speaker 1: the streets. That's pretty good. In two thousand seven, a

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Speaker 1: group of fascists calling themselves vin Landers decided to hold

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Speaker 1: a march and Knox Built, Tennessee. They were confronted by

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Speaker 1: a clown block made up of members of the group

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Speaker 1: Anti Racist Action or a r A. Again, the clowns

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Speaker 1: pantomime Nazi salutes and goose stepping, basically holding their own

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Speaker 1: clown themed version of the rally. When the Nazis chanted

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Speaker 1: white power, the clowns shouted back, white flower and then

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Speaker 1: through fistfuls of flower in the air. That's fun. That's fun. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's nice. But they were so mad. I bet they were.

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Speaker 1: All This piste off Alex Linder, the rally organizer, so

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Speaker 1: much that he charged at the clowns and attempted to

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Speaker 1: assault them. He was arrested by Knoxville police immediately. Again,

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Speaker 1: the clowns dealt a startling blow too, roughly a dozen Nazis.

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Speaker 1: That's good, that's pretty good. I'm coming around on these silly,

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Speaker 1: make them angry, triggered them triggered them, and then they

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Speaker 1: do the violence and then they get Yeah. Speaking of triggered,

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Speaker 1: I can see that Sophie and Katie are passing notes

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Speaker 1: and I don't know what's happening. Okay, you just give

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Speaker 1: me a really cool stick and gave her a sticker. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I feel like somebody's trying to take my throw and

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Speaker 1: slang away no no, no, no no no. Also by yeah,

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Speaker 1: she asked for once. I brought it and I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to give it. Before I forgot I was listening. Okay,

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Speaker 1: he's cradling the sling. I didn't mean to offend you.

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Speaker 1: You sling today. You couldn't use it as much as

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Speaker 1: you want, buddy. All right, Well, when the police come later,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tell them you said I could use

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Speaker 1: it as much as I want. I'll vouch for you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you do. Crimes Save Lives Beautiful. In two thousand twelve,

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Speaker 1: the National Socialist Movement again held a rally, this time

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Speaker 1: in Charlotte, North Carolina. They drew about fifty supporters, making

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Speaker 1: it one of the more sizeable gatherings in the group's history.

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Speaker 1: Several hundred clowns showed up to counter protests. Outnumbering the

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Speaker 1: Nazis five to one by some accounts, again they tossed

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Speaker 1: white flower in response to Nazi chance of white power.

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Speaker 1: This counter protest was organized by the Latin American Colson.

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Speaker 1: Their youth coordinator, Lacy Williams, said this did Will you

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Speaker 1: see and see the message from us is you look silly.

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Speaker 1: Were dressed like clowns, and you're the ones that look funny. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: not inaccurate, Not inaccurate. In January two seventeen, more than

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Speaker 1: five hundred Swedish Nazis from the Nordic Resistance Movement held

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Speaker 1: a rally in the city of Falloon on International Labor Day.

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Speaker 1: They were confronted by the activist group We Are to

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Speaker 1: larn Up, many of whom showed up yet again dressed

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Speaker 1: as clowns. Ivan Midget, representative of the counterprotesters, shold Radio

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Speaker 1: Sweden that he had come to believe humor was the

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Speaker 1: most potent weapon against fascist extremists. Angry people. They know

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Speaker 1: how to meet anger, they know how to meet hate

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Speaker 1: and violence, but they don't know how to meet humor.

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Speaker 1: We could see they were very troubled by having us there. Now.

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Speaker 1: Midget said that his clown rally was directly inspired by

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Speaker 1: the ongoing activism of clown cadres in Finland, who had

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Speaker 1: shown up in clown block to counter the anti immigrant

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Speaker 1: group Soldiers of Odin for years. By two thousand seventeen,

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Speaker 1: the idea of confronting fascists with clowns was rather popular

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Speaker 1: with activists all over the globe. From an optic standpoint,

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Speaker 1: this sort of activism was certainly successful. The mainstream new

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Speaker 1: sources were markedly more positive towards activists who dressed his

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Speaker 1: clowns rather than in black, even when the activist dressed

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Speaker 1: in black didn't do anything. Now. Justin Bates is from Charlottesville, Virginia.

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Speaker 1: In the wake of the two thousand seventeen rally that

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Speaker 1: killed Heather Higher, or in which Heather Higher was murdered

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Speaker 1: by a Nazi, uh, he started to get racist robocalls

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Speaker 1: from Scott Rhodes of IDAHOL. You guys remember Scott Rhodes

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Speaker 1: Road of Power. We talked about him during the MIDI

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Speaker 1: fun guy. I love when these colorful characters come up again.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's like in Frasier when somebody from Cheers

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Speaker 1: would come in once the season that it's comforting the

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Speaker 1: American fascist cinematic universe. Yeah, yes, and everybody's Woody Harrelson. Now, um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So he starts getting these robocalls, these very racist, very

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Speaker 1: anti Semitic robotcalls from Scott Roods of Idaho. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: Bates decided to counter this by organizing an event where

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Speaker 1: people would dress his clowns and play accordions outside roads

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Speaker 1: his home. Quote, he targeted my home in town. So

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Speaker 1: I said, Okay, if he wants to use his First

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Speaker 1: Amendment rights to spread his ridiculousness, then I'll use my

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Speaker 1: First Amendment rights to spread my own ridiculousness. And you

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Speaker 1: know what, why not do it in front of his

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Speaker 1: house for as long as possible. Because if he's going

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Speaker 1: to torment my friends and neighbors and their homes and

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Speaker 1: businesses with his stupid shit, if he wants to get

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Speaker 1: into a stupid ship competition, I'll win that every day.

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Speaker 1: That's a quote. It's a good quote. It's just as

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Speaker 1: stupid expletive, But I think it's staying stupid shit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's real good. Now, that does sound like a fun idea,

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, I've actually found no evidence that Scott ever

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Speaker 1: made this happen, somebody does find it. I would I

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Speaker 1: would love to be corrected on that, um. But what's

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Speaker 1: interesting to me is that all the coverage at the

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Speaker 1: time focused on the idea and a video he made

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Speaker 1: of like a clown um. Bates announced in two thousand

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Speaker 1: eighteen that he'd planned to do this next spring, but

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Speaker 1: as pharma is, I'm aware nothing happened to this spring. Nonetheless,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting to me how much media attention he received

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Speaker 1: for this idea that didn't actually happened, versus how much

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Speaker 1: media attention is received by a lot of rallies from

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Speaker 1: activists I've seen who've gotten hundreds or even thousands of

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Speaker 1: people to show up and like nobody cares about it.

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Speaker 1: Here's a short list of the sites that covered Bates

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Speaker 1: is Not a Clown stunt, stunt that didn't happen. Florida

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Speaker 1: Politics dot Com, uh UK News dot Yahoo, Spokesman dot Com, Blavity,

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Speaker 1: Huffington's Post, Bonner County Daily, b Newsweek in kh q UM,

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Speaker 1: all of those, All those people covered it with like

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Speaker 1: Man's response to the Nazi robo caller send clowns, that's Newsweek.

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Speaker 1: A Virginia Mound founder hilarious way to troll the racist robocaller.

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Speaker 1: Like the it got a lot of coverage, nothing ever happened, weird. Interesting.

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Speaker 1: Maybe a sign though, that it actually is a good

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Speaker 1: tactic if there's more follow through, because the media seems interested. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a story that they can latch onto. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: they're not gonna fall into the trap that they always

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Speaker 1: do with the false equivalence and things like that. It's

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Speaker 1: just like, no, here's yeah, that's just what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Not like they're not making a judgment really, yeah, about

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Speaker 1: whether or not someone should protest outside somebody's house, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or whether or not one side is just as dangerous

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Speaker 1: as the other, because yeah, they're just very straightforward, uh,

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Speaker 1: supportive of the silly thing as opposed to framing it

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Speaker 1: like it's a serious issue. And because if it's a

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Speaker 1: serious thing, you have to be So what are they

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Speaker 1: both saying? Are they both the same as one violent one?

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Speaker 1: You know, interesting lessons there now. Uh, it's hard for

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Speaker 1: me to judge the actual efficacy of the tactic of

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Speaker 1: confronting Nazis with clowns, because, for one thing, it does

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Speaker 1: not seem to actually dissuade Nazis from continuing to march.

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Speaker 1: And May eighteen, the Nordic Resistance Movement marched again and Ludvika,

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Speaker 1: Sweden again with around five people. Clowns Against Racism rallied

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Speaker 1: against them and they drew more activists than ever to

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Speaker 1: show up in Clown Block, which proved to be a

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Speaker 1: problem because for the first time the clowns drew in

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Speaker 1: enough numbers that they had to have a permit to march,

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Speaker 1: and since they hadn't gotten a permit, the police reported

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Speaker 1: the organizer for contravening the law on public order. But

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Speaker 1: again these guys kept marching after being confronted by clown

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Speaker 1: If you're trying to make the case how to stop them,

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Speaker 1: kind of get a long road to go there, even

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Speaker 1: though there's some evidence that it can be very effective

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Speaker 1: and can trigger them to, you know, make a bad

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Speaker 1: optics decision. Has happened in Olympia. It seems to be

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Speaker 1: like effective in in certain ways, but yeah, but not

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Speaker 1: in the main way. It's not a silver bullet. They

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Speaker 1: are scared of clowns, like I am. Yeah, they're not Katie.

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Speaker 1: They aren't and if they were Katie, they wouldn't be Nazi.

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Speaker 1: They wouldn't exactly, it wouldn't be a problem. Yeah, something

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Speaker 1: to that, just like they know how to they know

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Speaker 1: how to deal with anger because there that's where so

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Speaker 1: much that comes from. Yeah, and they know like, oh,

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Speaker 1: if I'm triggering you, then I'm going to stay calm

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be like, well what everyone's racist, you know,

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Speaker 1: just because I say this, And they know how to

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Speaker 1: handle that. But they really it doesn't stop them. But

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Speaker 1: it doesn't stop they don't, but they don't handle it

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Speaker 1: very well. Yeah, now dire or then all of that

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Speaker 1: is the fact that in recent months Nazis themselves seem

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Speaker 1: to have a found a way to adopt aspects of

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Speaker 1: this tactic for themselves. And this brings me, rather unfortunately

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Speaker 1: to the Honkler meme. Honkler Honkler, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: that's literally. Yeah, if you spend a lot of time

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Speaker 1: on Twitter or any of the other foul corners of

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Speaker 1: the Internet, log off and yes, burn your computer, walk

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Speaker 1: outside petticat. But if you spend time on those places,

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Speaker 1: you've probably run across strange images of a green frog

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Speaker 1: dressed as a clown. That's a peppe. This is Honkler.

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Speaker 1: He's essentially a Peppe meme in clown face. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to quote now from an article by Jared Holt from

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Speaker 1: right Wing Watch. Online personalities and far right and white

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Speaker 1: nationalist online circles are attempting to attribute racism and anti

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Speaker 1: Semitism to an image of a cartoon character, Peppe the Frog,

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Speaker 1: depicted poorly drawn and as a clown, and that effort

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Speaker 1: has gained notable traction recent months. Far right proponents want

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Speaker 1: the broader Internet to believe the character directly represents their

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Speaker 1: world view, but the situation in the whole represents an

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Speaker 1: attitude shift in far right sir was online and a

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Speaker 1: slow inching forward even towards more radical elements of the movement.

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Speaker 1: Now that might sound a little bit weird, but the

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Speaker 1: more radical view is a sort of hardcore nihilism that's

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Speaker 1: currently sweeping the ranks a very online fascists see, they

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Speaker 1: were pretty optimistic for the first couple of years of

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's election, um, thinking that he was going to

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Speaker 1: do all of the Nazi ship they wanted him to do,

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Speaker 1: but he only did some of it, um not nearly enough,

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Speaker 1: not being explicit about it either. Still, and their lives

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Speaker 1: still suck, which is a problem. For them. Um, So,

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Speaker 1: a lot of these guys have begun to lose hope

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Speaker 1: of ever instituting the murderous ethno state they so desire,

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Speaker 1: And so all of these clown references are a reference

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Speaker 1: to the fact that they believe modern society is a

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Speaker 1: clown world where races intermix and genetically superior specimens like

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Speaker 1: themselves go tragically unfucked, and that that stands the world

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Speaker 1: is clowny, ridiculous, and if we keep the clown world going,

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Speaker 1: And what is it? Piss earth is another terms. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of them. You know what's not

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Speaker 1: piss earth? Oh? I bet uh fuck, it's on the

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Speaker 1: tip of my tongue. I can't think of what it is.

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Speaker 1: Products and services. Sophie's getting ready with a knife, and

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Speaker 1: I think that has just prompted me to when we

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Speaker 1: come back finally toss these crannies and nooks. Story. Look,

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Speaker 1: the machete is up and for grabs. People just grab

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Speaker 1: the weapons. They are products, and we're back. But we're back,

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Speaker 1: and there's an arms race going on at the table.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't stand up. Everybody got to arm themselves, get

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Speaker 1: something to hit these these nooks and crannies. Thomas is

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Speaker 1: out of the air. I don't know what direction they're

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Speaker 1: going to go in. One weapon is for me, one

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Speaker 1: is for Anderson. She has no thumb. Katie Stapler, okay

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Speaker 1: in first all right, I'm just gonna wind up myself.

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Speaker 1: I'm very sad this is happening. It went backwards him.

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Speaker 1: They went the most opposite direction to be a safe

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Speaker 1: way to do You're not done? Is there needs to

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Speaker 1: be someone behind me. I need to be surrounded in

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Speaker 1: a forest of knives so that I can throw this safely. No, Cody,

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Speaker 1: don't pay the sacrificial lamb. I mean you can't. Second,

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Speaker 1: we need you for words, your ever, There's no way

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Speaker 1: to know how this is going to go. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to throw it all right now. I think the way

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Speaker 1: to do this is to swing it above my head

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Speaker 1: and yeah, oh it went sideways very violently. Are we

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Speaker 1: not done? Let's let's try this again to the next

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Speaker 1: ad break. Somebody has to hit it with a blade.

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Speaker 1: All volunteers air, well, this is this is very embarrassing.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was lovely. Daniel. Did you get that video? Sophie?

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Speaker 1: This is a podcast? Thank you, Robert. Is it your

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Speaker 1: first day. Thank you Cody, Thank you Katie for not

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Speaker 1: being a fansplating podcasting saying it's audio related and no

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Speaker 1: visual elements. Okay, five stars, no notes. So, like all

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Speaker 1: good memes, the Honkler and clown World memes evolved in

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Speaker 1: a decentralized fashion. The website no your meme has tracked

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Speaker 1: its entire evolution and I'm going to quote from them now.

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Speaker 1: In February, en racist and anti Semitic variations of the

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Speaker 1: character named Honkler began appearing on four Chance Pole image board. Additionally,

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Speaker 1: the characters associated with the term honk pill, which is

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Speaker 1: often described as an absurdist alternative to black pill nihilism,

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Speaker 1: allowing a person to appreciate the humor in an absurd universe,

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Speaker 1: interpreting existence as a cosmic joke. Take the honk pill.

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Speaker 1: Everything's a pill these days. Yeah, I'm just I don't

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Speaker 1: want to take any more pills. Yeah, take some so

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Speaker 1: much like medicated. Isn't that a pill? It is a

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Speaker 1: great pill. Yeah, we should. Someone should go back in

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Speaker 1: time to the Wachowsky sisters and be like, don't make

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Speaker 1: it a pill. Don't don't make it right. I know

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Speaker 1: this is a fine from a narrative standpoint in but

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Speaker 1: we're all going to regret it. Yeah, pill like an enema.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that's interesting. You've been animal. Just be honked.

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Speaker 1: I'm it's so ready for when deep fakes allow us

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Speaker 1: to replace that scene in the matrix with with Keanu

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Speaker 1: Reeves getting an enema. The actual Honkler image was first

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Speaker 1: posted on four Chune that January with the message what

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Speaker 1: emotion does this image evoke from you? Almost immediately users

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Speaker 1: hit upon the idea of using the meme as he

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Speaker 1: had another dog whistle to signal national socialist beliefs. So

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Speaker 1: this is the you can see this is Honker. You've

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Speaker 1: seen this guy floating around Twitter. Yeah so uh the

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Speaker 1: guy says that, uh and then uh. One of the

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Speaker 1: first responses is um, someone saying Hong Kong equals h

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Speaker 1: h heil Hitler. If you honk you're a honky taking

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Speaker 1: back the rainbow, mocking the parentheses. That means something is

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Speaker 1: Jewish clown world. Clown world insiders to say the clown

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Speaker 1: world is created by the Jews. Uh. And then somebody

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Speaker 1: quoted that and said, why Hong Kong is the next

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Speaker 1: okay sign? Uh? And then someone else said taking back

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Speaker 1: the Rainbow Brother doesn't belong to faggy sodomites and trans freaks.

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Speaker 1: Honk Honkler And they have a picture of of Honkler

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Speaker 1: with the uh the rainbow wig on in front of

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Speaker 1: a gas chamber. Yeah, so that happened very quickly. Um. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They really were like, yeah, let's turn this into another Nazi.

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Speaker 1: This is literally the only thing we do anymore on

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Speaker 1: the Internet. Yeah, is make things Nazi. They do not

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Speaker 1: have to clear my schedule. Let's do that. I have

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Speaker 1: nothing else going on. On February eleventh, users on four

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Speaker 1: Chains pull Board launched Operation Honk with the goal of

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Speaker 1: spreading the Honk Theer meme across the Internet. Their goal

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Speaker 1: was to get it into general circulation and hopefully convince

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Speaker 1: Normans to start spreading it around without any idea as

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Speaker 1: to its origin. From one of their posts, they will

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Speaker 1: adopt our child and post Honkler on social media under

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Speaker 1: mainstream memes already in circulation. There will come a time

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Speaker 1: when we must take him back, whether of the Honk

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Speaker 1: or not. We must perpetuate this meme to show the

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Speaker 1: world our ideas so dumb, Whether Honk or not, all

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Speaker 1: these shootings um, yeah, very frustrating that we have to

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Speaker 1: care about this. I would love to ignore these people,

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Speaker 1: really would That would be great if you didn't, if

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Speaker 1: they weren't a concern, if they if if a detectable

421
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: fraction of them didn't shoot up random Walmart's. Um, it

422
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 1: would be nice to ignore them and like talk to

423
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,479
Speaker 1: each other and talk to each other and try to

424
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 1: get each other to yeah, cool stuff. A honk Facebook

425
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: page was quickly created, and the meme rapidly spread outside

426
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,639
Speaker 1: the confines of the Chance and into the wide world

427
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 1: of other incredibly shitty people. One of those people was

428
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: noted actor James Woods. Celebrated actor James Woods on April eight,

429
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: he posted this little Jim to his Facebook page. Now,

430
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: what is that? What is that? What does that look

431
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: like to y'all? The bottom one, I mean, it looks

432
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: like Honkler. It is Honkler? What was in front of

433
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: an African American lady? That's not quite all of the subtext.

434
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: Do you recognize what that image is based off of?

435
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 1: Katie's a picture Honkler in a car mugging towards the camera,

436
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: and it's basically just traced over a drawing of the

437
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: Christ Church shooter in his car. That's what it is.

438
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: It's the christ Church shooter. It's Brenton Tarrant as Honkler

439
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: in front of a YouTube personality to not get Jesus. Yeah,

440
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: that's and that's James Woods sharing a of the christ

441
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: Church mass shoot. You think he knew that it was shooter.

442
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: Hard to say, because like you guys didn't. That's part

443
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: of why an instant like I was like, oh, yeah,

444
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 1: it's the car. That is that image that we know.

445
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: It's strange to think of sharing something, but yeah, I

446
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: guess I have no idea if Woods knew, like he

447
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: knew what the clown world because the clown world has

448
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 1: taken on two meetings. Both of them are that the

449
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: world's fundamentally absurd because of all this multiculturalism bullshit. But

450
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: the two different ways of taking that is the like

451
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 1: not explicitly Nazi way is that like, well, these sj

452
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: Ws and these liberals are just so absurd, but the

453
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 1: world and it's a clown world because of that. And

454
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 1: then on the explicitly Nazi side, it's the Jews are

455
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: the ones making it be that way, and that's why

456
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: it's right. It's always that like that little leaf you

457
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: need to make. Yeah. And I mean I've seen even like,

458
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: uh about Tim Pool. Yeah, yeah, Like he's done videos

459
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: where he's like people say the Honker thing is like

460
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: about Nazis and stuff, but it's actually not. It's just

461
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: because the world is so nuts and it's like, yeah,

462
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: ye helping their buddy. Yeah, it's very frustrating. It's very frustrating.

463
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: I don't believe that James Woods is as four Chanders

464
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: would say, jew pilled um, which I don't think he

465
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: understands entirely what he's saying. He's old, he's old and

466
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: not smart. Um. It's like internet stuff, and its internet stuff.

467
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: Like someone probably told him it's a conservative thing and

468
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: he was like, well, okay, and what specifically why he

469
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: posted he was declaring war with hashtag clown Lady and

470
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: the clown lady in the picture. The woman who the

471
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: Tarrant client is looking at is a is a YouTuber

472
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: named little Lunchbox, and she provoked the ire of the

473
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: right wing when she complained about the Honkler meme, and

474
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 1: particularly complained about the appropriation of rainbow imagery by the right.

475
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: She said, I'm ready to go to motherfucking c l

476
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,479
Speaker 1: war clown war over this. You're not going to take

477
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: a symbol of happiness and acceptance and multiculturalism and turn

478
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: it into something racist and antiseptic and homophobic. I think

479
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: she meant EDTI semitic and try ansphobic. Um, So that's like,

480
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: that's the reaction they wanted. That's the reaction they wanted.

481
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: And James Woods is declaring war on her in this.

482
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: But then his surponses got really weird because like, um

483
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 1: would spent the rest of the day like watching more

484
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: of and more of her footage, and like it seems

485
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: like he actually seriously did start to enjoy her stuff,

486
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: and then he started posting positive things about her. She's

487
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: my new favorite person on Twitter. I mean, she's certainly

488
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: committed to her position about things. She's willing to go

489
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: to war. I like her. I'm not kidding. I mean,

490
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: there's the clown stuff and the nuts of liberal stuff,

491
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: but she's likable. I don't know why I'm still smiling.

492
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: I started out making fun of her video, but now

493
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: I'm really curious about her, so, I mean that's charming

494
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: to me. He also might just have been backtracking with

495
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: someone was like, oh you you spread terrorist propping anity

496
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: and he's like a fuck but yeah, Now I was

497
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: lurking on h and the same day this happened, and

498
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: so I was able to watch them react to this

499
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: because they had created the original image that then got

500
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: chopped up of of Tarrant as honklude like that stuffed

501
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: on a chance Bull board. So they were very excited

502
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: to see someone is relatively mainstreams James would share it,

503
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: and they immediately then started taking pictures of little lunch

504
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: boxes face and photoshopping her with green skin and a

505
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: rainbow clown wig and turning her into a honkler, which

506
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: is just sort of the way the Internet works when

507
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: it does stuff like that. Um but I will say

508
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: I don't think James Woods quite knew what he was doing. No,

509
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's what happened. It's like their goal,

510
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: like you're not He's not looking at this and going

511
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: oh yeah, the terrorists and Hitler stuff. It's like he's going,

512
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: oh yeah, these clowns is clowns. When Donald Trump retweeted that,

513
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: um eh chan mem Hillary Clinton with a star of

514
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: David on it, that's the most it was like he

515
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: didn't think that was a Starve just said someone else

516
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: hates Hillary Fuck yeah. Yeah. It's it's the fact that

517
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: you are so connected to these communities that's the concern.

518
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: It's that, like, how did you see this racist thing

519
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: and why did you connect to it and and retweet it?

520
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: Like James would has some access to uh and relationship

521
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: with people who are sharing these Nazi things, He's just

522
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 1: not going, oh, yeah, they're Nazis. I guess their goal.

523
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: It's uh, it's stop set up, stop setting it's it's

524
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: it's not great. It's not the way I would prefer

525
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: things work in national politics. But here we are secret

526
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: Nazis tricking famous people into sharing their yes, yes, yeah,

527
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: that would be that would be good if that didn't happen,

528
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: and famous people reacting to it by generally saying, well,

529
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: I guess I'll defend Nazis now rather than admit that

530
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: I got tricked. It's great. I really love nineteen Yeah.

531
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: Pretending that it's not the problem and that there's nothing

532
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: nothing going on and there isn't a community of people

533
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: that actively do this on purpose, it makes me think

534
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: might just be a pretty good year comparative ever, the

535
00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: best year of all of them. That seems negative ever ever, ever,

536
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: Welcome to the best of the yep, yep, you know everything,

537
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: so smart smart smarts. Yeah. Now, I don't know what

538
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: was going on with James Woods, and I won't pretend to,

539
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,239
Speaker 1: but I do know that the ship posters on eight

540
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: Chan took to honk their memes like a duck takes

541
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: to racism. When I started writing this episode, I looked

542
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: through my giant document and saved a Chan posts, and

543
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: the first honkler me and I found on there was

544
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: from eight which was yeah again the same day that

545
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: James was made that post, although I think it happened

546
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: earlier than that, and I just didn't choose to save

547
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: those images. But here's a here's a here's here's an

548
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: example of one of the more baffling versions of this

549
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: meme that I really don't even know what's trying to

550
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: be conveyed there. Um, it's clearly based off the shining.

551
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: You've got, yeah, an axe coming through a bathroom where

552
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: a woman is half dressed. Uh, and then the hankler's

553
00:29:53,520 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: little face peering through the wall. Oh, she she's dressed

554
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: all sexy. Yeah, there might be some insult ship there.

555
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: It's really hard to say, uh yeah, yeah, I honestly

556
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: have no idea what the message of that is even

557
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: supposed to be. I guess keeping tom kind of thing.

558
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: I don't know thing going on there, No, I doubt it.

559
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: There's dildos on the shelf though, so I bet they'd

560
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: call her a stacy or something, right like, there's there's

561
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: some mixed messaging there, it seems, yeah, or maybe they're

562
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: just saying we're going to kill women who like dildo's yeah,

563
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: something like that, or just women the women, you know

564
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: what doesn't kill the women? What the products that support

565
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: this podcast? Yeah, I hope, I hope. Yep, they don't.

566
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: They don't good We've had all of our products, Daniels

567
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: saying this is a good idea. Well, I feel safe,

568
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,719
Speaker 1: thank you. Got to buy them now. I thought they

569
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: were gonna harm women. But my knife, Yeah, everybody should

570
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: get their knife. Come back from the break. It's going

571
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: down alright. Time to get my staple a out products.

572
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: I don't know to this. Well, we're back, and because

573
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: we're coming back from a break, I'm going to attempt

574
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: to properly fling the thing with the sling and enough

575
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: of the direction that somebody with a weapon is able

576
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: to hit them out of the air and make these

577
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: now rather crumbled English muffles burst like a pinata filled

578
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: with gluten a gluten yata. Alright, alright, call shot. Yeah, no,

579
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: you're getting better. It went. It went to where it

580
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: was supposed to stay in this lane. Not eventually, but initially.

581
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: I'm enough to build up. Yes, whoa if you did

582
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: not duck, there's truly no way that I could have

583
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: defended myself from that. I mean ducking, that's right, if

584
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,479
Speaker 1: I had. Robert, sorry to Katie for almost killing her. Katie,

585
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: I'm sorry for almost killing you. I was trying to hit,

586
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: so Katie, I don't have any choice but to accept

587
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: your apologies. I think you need it more than I do. Now, see,

588
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: if the machete had been there, you could have hit

589
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: the bagels. Will you toss back? I would have hurt

590
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: myself with a machete. You would have saved it. You

591
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: would have cut him in half. And we were like, oh,

592
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: it's amazing, how much damaged. No, no, they're mushed up, Daniel.

593
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: Daniel said, not enough, Robert, you're still employed. Good job. Well,

594
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: we'll have to change that. Cassing papers doesn't have quite

595
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: the I love tossing. I'm just a toss fan. I'm

596
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: a tosser. I don't know what that means, but British

597
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: people say, I think it has something to do with swivel, go,

598
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: swivel your tosser and then you do like oversea. That's

599
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: the British for for the butt your tosser. Oh, I

600
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: thought it was something else. I mean it might be

601
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: about uh analingus. Is that what you're referring to. I

602
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: don't know either way. I don't know what it means

603
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: that somebody with a tendency to show off or brag

604
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: an excessive and embarrassing way. Well there you go, because

605
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: I bragged about my tossing. Yeah, and it worked your

606
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: a tosser about yours. Boy. I hope nobody relies on

607
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: these English muffins for breakfast. Oh good? Were you? Are

608
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: you going to put them back? Well? Yeah, I'm not

609
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: gonna waste food. That's good. Thank you, Thank you for

610
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: praising me. You're good. I love being braised. The Honkler

611
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: meme quickly generalized into the clown World meme, which we

612
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: we talked about a little bit earlier. But it started

613
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: with the Honkler and then turned in the broader cloud

614
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: world thing it memes you're confusing. Clown World obviously involves

615
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: references to clowns aimed at making the point that our

616
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: modern world is social justice and treating women like people.

617
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: It's fundamentally absurd. Who actually has its origins back before

618
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: the Honkler meme. So this is one of the things

619
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: that's confusing about this. That wait, that women, Uh no, no,

620
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: the clown world. That yeah, I found clown world references

621
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: on archived discord conversations between fascists as early as two

622
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: thousand seventeen, which is well before the start of the meme,

623
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 1: although they seem it seems to have just been a

624
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: term that we're using rather than sort of a meme

625
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: in and of itself. Um So I'm gonna read a

626
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: little conversation from the Vibrant Diversity chat room, which was

627
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 1: frequented by many of the people who marched and organized

628
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: the Bloody Too thousand seventeen Unite the Right rally and Charlotte'sville.

629
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: A lot of those people do terrorisms. Sure, sure weird

630
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: that a lot of those people doing terrorism, A lot

631
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: of them, Like that's like a statistically significant non of

632
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 1: them have done a terrorism or like every couple of

633
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: months you see a terrorism done or like a suspected

634
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: terrorism done, and you're like, that person looks familiar. Oh,

635
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: here they are marching literally next to this other two

636
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: there marching right next to this terrorist. Cool quite something.

637
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: So these posts came after a long discussion about whether

638
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: or not transgender people should be able to serve the military.

639
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: Very woke takes ye, take a lot of things in consideration.

640
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: Horatio carry. Honestly, putting trannies on the front line is cruel.

641
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: Camp and Carl to the enemy. Horatio carry L O

642
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: L Vanguard. Seriously, they should be put in frontline service.

643
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 1: Horatio carry cannon fodder, Camp and Carl just don't wait

644
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: stinny armor weapons on them. Horatio carry tranny Core, Northern Underscore,

645
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: Confederate l O L. Such clown world. Thankfully, our president

646
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: all caps and a ri E has a simple solution

647
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: to trannies. No, so that's good. That's good. That was

648
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: unpleasant to listen to. That's the first reference I can

649
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: find a clown world in like one of those really

650
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 1: clear discussions. Thank you for hating it. It is good job, Robert,

651
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: as is usually the case, the clown World and Honkler

652
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: memes quickly traveled from the most extreme corners of the

653
00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: Internet to more mainstream not get out of town, get

654
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: out of town Nazis. But then if somebody gets hit

655
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: when you're telling Nazis to get out of town, you'll

656
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: be declared domestic terrorists. It's the same. I love our assistant,

657
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: it's helpful, it's good, it has no flaws. I'm going

658
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: to read from right Wing Watch again. Punkler and clown

659
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: World memes were recently incorporated into goy Talk, a new

660
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: but growing web based white nationalist podcast. The show's hosts

661
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: advocate white nationalism in an attached way and embody the

662
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: same increasingly nihilistic attitude among the white nationalist and white

663
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: supremacist movements in the United States conveyed in the reputation

664
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: of the word clown World. Goy Talk hosts express racist

665
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: and and do semitic views as a staple of their programming,

666
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: with guests that include David Duke, Christopher kent Well, and

667
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: Patrick Little. Nevertheless, they are ultimately nihilistic about the state

668
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: of the world and their ability to change it without

669
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,479
Speaker 1: mass organized action, reminiscent of the violent writings of James

670
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: Mason in his book. Yeah, so always feel bad. I know,

671
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: a lovely Chris can't Well, who's a wonderful director whenever,

672
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: fortunate to have Hall and catch Fire a lot of

673
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: great sketch comedy back in the day too. Yeah, anyway, Yeah,

674
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's unfortunate. It's ironic that the good Chris

675
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 1: can't Well directed Halt and catch Fire because the bad

676
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: Chris Can't Well. I would not have a problem if

677
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: he were to halt. There is nailed it beautiful. So

678
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: guys like Christopher can't Well and David Duke are are

679
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: fundamentally different parts of the fascist media ecosystem from say

680
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: the guys on four chan. Um, and the fact that

681
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: folks associated with them had latched onto the Honkler meme

682
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: is evidence that it had essentially spread to the uncool

683
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: sections of the Nazi right by by this point, by

684
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: kind of like the middle of this year earlier, you know, quarter,

685
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: first quarter this year, the end of that quarter. Um.

686
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: So my guess is that the channers behind Honkler probably

687
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: reacted to this into the same way we all did

688
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: when our parents first got onto Facebook and started with

689
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: the spreading minions memes like this is kind of bat

690
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: for Nazis, and they're like David Duke's and on it

691
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: to find a new Yeah, the crying Nazis doing it now.

692
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: Fuck yeah, here's a here's a note. Yeah, you're all

693
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: fucking torks. None of you're not cool. Stop it. You're

694
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: as cool as David Duke. That's your note for the Nazis,

695
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: for the Nazis. Well, I'll let the Nazis know. Yeah,

696
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: like you were really directing that directly. The Nazis made

697
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,439
Speaker 1: direct Robert. I will let the Nazis please let them know. Yeah,

698
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: it is now filtered. That it being Honkler has now

699
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: filtered thoroughly out of the weird right wing Internet and

700
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: into the streets. I'm not precisely sure when the first

701
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: fascist demonstrators started marching in clown gear. The first time

702
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: I saw it was in May two nineteen, when Joey

703
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: Gibson of Patriot Prayer held a rally in Albany, New

704
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: York with the tiny gaggle of Proud Boys. Now, this

705
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: wasn't away game for Joey, who usually marches in Portland

706
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: in Seattle, and it was a huge flop. Nobody even

707
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,959
Speaker 1: showed up to counter protest him. Only one journalist showed

708
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: up to write about it, and the whole event was

709
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 1: forgotten basically as soon as it happened. The only noteworthy

710
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: part of this rally was the fact that several proud

711
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: boys showed up in clown face and guys, I I

712
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: will include some of these pictures on the site. You

713
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: do owe it to yourself. This is There's been some

714
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: sad clowns in the past. I feel like that's a

715
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: thing that was regularly done. This guy here is the

716
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: saddest clown. Oh, you're a sad Your pity is warring

717
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: with your disgust, isn't Oh yeah, it's like taking an

718
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: an acid after drinking a bunch of acid one I

719
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: think it is. I don't know. Is it that one good?

720
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: He just looks so dejected, like the snoopy music is playing.

721
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: Charlie Brown. Yeah, somebody pulled a fucking football out from

722
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: the under the kids that kids clown shoe. Uh yeah, um,

723
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: I was expecting one. I got another one, delicious tree.

724
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: There's some great ones. There's some really great ones. Now.

725
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 1: A month or so later, the clown World meme reached

726
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 1: what I have to suspect will be it's saddest form,

727
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 1: perhaps it's apothesis. Alex Jones featured it on info wars

728
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: now Cool. Jones has a long history of pulling content

729
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: from four chan and e chan, mainly in the form

730
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 1: of conspiracy theories and the very dumbest of memes. This

731
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: time he appropriated the term clown world, which again was

732
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: first coined by literal Nazis to describe the nihilistic rage

733
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: that they felt with their inability to stop people from

734
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: race mixing or accepting LGBT people. Jones, however, used it

735
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: for his special coverage of the Democratic debates. Info wars

736
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: dot com presents clown World, the Greatest comedy show on Earth.

737
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: The promotional graphic features all the Democratic candidates in crudely

738
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: photoshopped clown face. Elizabeth Warren also wears a Native American headdress.

739
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders is a mime. Joe Biden is for some reason,

740
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: done up as Jack Nicholson's version of the joker. I'm

741
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: really I really don't understand like that all they're all

742
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: different types of clown, like Elizabeth Warren. Okay, obviously that's

743
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: the one thing. Like everyone clazy, right wing pundit hits

744
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: her for the most terrified get I get Sanders from

745
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: mine because he's the oldest stuer, So like, yeah, you

746
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: haven't be the old timiest clown. Why is Joe Biden

747
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholson's show weird because he carries an absurdly longhandgun

748
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: that he uses to shoot the bat plane out of

749
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: the air? Does he actually probably you know what? Points

750
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: to Alex Jones. That's fair. Well, he also fell on

751
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 1: that bad of acid and Joe Biden's I exploded that

752
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: before that from this is before that is before I

753
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: exploded the night before that was later. Very cool, very cool.

754
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: Check out the podcast Knowledge Fight if you want some

755
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: coverage of Jones's clown World show. But obviously it wasn't good.

756
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: And yeah, and he's not even fun anymore because so

757
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: many people are threatening to and actively suing him that

758
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 1: he can't he can't even be that fun. Yeah, he's

759
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: really trying trying to tone it down, trying realizes, oh,

760
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: I guess I can get sued for Yeah. Yeah. Now,

761
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: about a month before I wrote this, at the end

762
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: of September two, nineteen, a straight Pride parade was held

763
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: in Boston. It was organized by a coalition of fascists,

764
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: outright Neo Nazis, and Milonei Illanopolis. During a powerfully sad

765
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: press conference for the event, one of the organizers was asked,

766
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: what do you say to taxpayers who want to know

767
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: why you're wasting the city's resources because you three guys

768
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: can't get laid. The organizer responded, the world is clown world.

769
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 1: The world's gone crazy because there's nothing wrong with being straight.

770
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: What great? Okay man, okay man. At least it's very

771
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: listen and like a clear thought, really an answer, really

772
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: a solid answer. Several attendees at the parade were photograph

773
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: dressed as clowns. Two men wore Honkler costumes complete with

774
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: green face paint. Oddly enough, the counter protest of this

775
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: event also included clowns. Well. Activists on the ground, Yeah well,

776
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: activists on the ground battled with the Boston police, who

777
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 1: went a little bit nut fuck on the demonstrators. Online,

778
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 1: anti fascists started flooding Twitter and other social media apps

779
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: with pictures and footage of large groups of clowns, tagging

780
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: the footage as part of the Straight Pride Parade. It wasn't,

781
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: of course, this was just unrelated clown footage. But that's

782
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: where things sit now. We've gone from activists dressing as

783
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: clowns to keep each other's spirits up to marching in

784
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: clown costumes to counter serious uniform neo Nazis too, fascist

785
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: demonstrators willingly dressing themselves as clowns, while online anti fascists

786
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: flood the internet with fake clown footage in order to

787
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: distract from their real event. You guys excited about that's

788
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: fun where we are? What a fun little episode? What fun?

789
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 1: I'm more excited about where we're heading. I went on

790
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: regarding clowns, hating clowns, starting to like them, back to

791
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: hating them even more than I hated them originally. I

792
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: do hope that what we see, if this evolution continues,

793
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: is two large groups of functionally indistinguishable clowns beating each

794
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: other in the street while the police just go, who

795
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: do we tear gas everybody? Yeah? I think I think

796
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: that's what we call a civil war. Yes, it's that,

797
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: it's that false equivalence. Uh, you're help, you're helping a

798
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: little bit where it's like it's like the sneeches, you

799
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: keep switch sneeches on beaches. Yeah, you keep switching back

800
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: and forth, and you're like, well, who's the clown? What

801
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: are you protesting for or against? Oh? You you you're

802
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 1: you're a fascist, but I'm not. But to you, I am.

803
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: I guess we're both clowns. Now, it's great, that's not

804
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: I disagree. Sorry, well, I hope this was helpful. Very

805
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: I now I know I have a new enemy. Yes,

806
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: clowns still clowns, still clowns. Still speaking of clowning. Oh,

807
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: he's going to do one more. I'm gonna try it.

808
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try it. I don't think you're gonna do it.

809
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: Don't try do it. Thank you, Cody, Thank you for

810
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: believing in me. Absolutely start off by going down. Not

811
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: a bad decision. I gave you the machete. I can't.

812
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 1: I'm I'm specifically not Cody, get the machete scares me.

813
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: Daniel has the machete, Daniel has jail. You'd be careful

814
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: of that. So if you make sure the ocean guy

815
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: doesn't come in. All right, I'm gonna close my I'm

816
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: gonna do this like like Luke Skywalker. Yeah, oh my god,

817
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: Well that wasn't great. Well, guys, it's another episode done,

818
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: another miserable failure in the bag. In the bag, we

819
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: did it, You did it, Robert. You guys have some

820
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: plug doubles to plug Yeah Daniel still check out our

821
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: new Yeah. Also our podcast Even More News. That's the

822
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: one that Cody and I do and YouTube show called

823
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: Some More Same. Checkout video versions of the news. You

824
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: can help support that by gonna have a Patreon dot

825
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 1: com slash Some More News. So much to check out,

826
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: so much to check out. And if you want to

827
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: endanger the people around you by throwing breakfast food recklessly,

828
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: Thomas Breakfast like no other, the original Knooks and Crannies

829
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: English Models. He threw Knooks and Crannies that I love you.

830
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: You can find this podcast behind the Bastards dot com.

831
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: You can find uh T shirts on t public. You

832
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: can find me it at Bastards pot uh and you

833
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: can listen to the Worst Year Ever, the podcast that's

834
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: about a year that's not gonna be very good. Do it,

835
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:34,479
Speaker 1: do it, do it, do it, do it. You're gonna

836
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: let it cool