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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Nineteen students dead, two teachers dead,

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Speaker 1: and yet another school shooting. Why, Why in the most

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Speaker 1: prosperous country in the world does this keep happening? Are

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Speaker 1: you tired of hearing that? Well, I'm tired of saying it,

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Speaker 1: but I can tell you something else. I'd be out

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Speaker 1: of my mind if this happened at a school where

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Speaker 1: my children attended. Think about that for a moment. I

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and Series eleven. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to this. A gunman opened fire here at

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Speaker 1: rob Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, free nineteen students and

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Speaker 1: two teachers killed. My heart was broken to day. We're

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Speaker 1: a small community and well we need your prayers to

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Speaker 1: get us through this. Before entering the school, gunman eighteen

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Speaker 1: year old Salvador Ramos, a student at Uvaldi High School,

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Speaker 1: shot his grandmother at her residence. She is now in

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Speaker 1: critical condition. We were the first ones. We're right, we're

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Speaker 1: right behind her house. Shortly after, the suspect crashed his

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Speaker 1: car outside of the school premises, where he engaged with

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Speaker 1: law enforcement. Then at eleven thirty two am Central time,

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Speaker 1: the suspect, wearing body armor, abandoned his vehicle and entered

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Speaker 1: the school where second, third and fourth graders were in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the school day. You're hearing our friend

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Speaker 1: Emmy Robock at ABC we've got an all star panel.

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Speaker 1: But let me go straight out to the scene. Joining me.

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Speaker 1: Tony Plahetski reporter with the Austin American Statesman and KVU. Tony,

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Speaker 1: what happened? Nancy authorities, they're still trying to fully understand

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Speaker 1: what happened, But what we know is that this gunman

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Speaker 1: shot his grandmother at her home where he also lived

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Speaker 1: before going to this school and opening fire. Nancy authorities

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Speaker 1: do tell us that the grandmother is still alive, and

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Speaker 1: based on a briefing that a state senator here in

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Speaker 1: Texas received late last night, that grandmother actually worked at

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Speaker 1: rob Elementary School until May of twenty twenty. So they're still,

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Speaker 1: of course, trying to figure out the connections here, but

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Speaker 1: that is the latest information. So he shot his grandmother

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Speaker 1: who's in critical condition, who used to work at rob

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Speaker 1: What can you tell me about his mo? His modus

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Speaker 1: operendi method of operation? He shows up, crashes his car

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Speaker 1: intentionally not intentionally goes into the school. How does he

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Speaker 1: get into the school? What weapons did he use? And

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Speaker 1: why did he pick that particular time of day. I'm

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Speaker 1: curious ahead, Tony. Yeah, And obviously some of that information

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Speaker 1: is are the same question, Nancy, that authorities are trying

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Speaker 1: to ask as well. But I do want to tell

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Speaker 1: you this. The shooter purchase, according to authorities, to a

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Speaker 1: R rifle on May seventeenth and May twentieth, That was

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Speaker 1: just last week from a local federally licensed firearm dealer

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Speaker 1: here in Ubaldi. He is, of course from Ubaldi as

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Speaker 1: well as Nancy, nearly four hundred rounds of ammunition. Oh,

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Speaker 1: dear Lord in Heaven. I know the rest of the

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Speaker 1: panel is chomping at the bit. I'm going to come

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Speaker 1: to you just a moment, but we're expecting a presser

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Speaker 1: and I want to get every drop of information from

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Speaker 1: Tony Plahotski joining us before he races over to the

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Speaker 1: press conference. Tony Plahotsky, you stated he bought two A

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Speaker 1: R rifles on May twenty Is that correct? May seventeenth

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Speaker 1: and May twentieth, Nancy, this is right around his eighteenth birthday.

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Speaker 1: I want to be clear about that. Too, right after

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Speaker 1: his eighteenth birthday, and so obviously a lot of attention

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Speaker 1: on where he purchased these firearms. But again, to be clear,

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Speaker 1: according to the ATS, which has been working around the

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Speaker 1: clock to try to unpack all of this, he did

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Speaker 1: purchase them legally. Okay, yes, I've heard statements from the

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Speaker 1: gun shop owner that sold him the guns, who's beside himself.

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Speaker 1: The reality is is that you can purchase guns, even

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Speaker 1: assault rifles, at age eighteen. But in that jurisdiction, your jurisdiction,

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Speaker 1: Tony Poalhski joining me from the same you have to

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Speaker 1: be twenty one to drink. That's exactly right, That's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: Before I can have a hard cider, I gotta be

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Speaker 1: twenty one. But I can get an assault rifle at eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct? That is correct? Go ahead, Tony, tell

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Speaker 1: me about the school. How did he get into the school?

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Speaker 1: Did they have any security whatsoever? Not to my knowledge, Anthy,

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Speaker 1: I want to tell you something that I was so

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Speaker 1: struck by yesterday evening as I arrived at the scene.

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Speaker 1: And of course we all know that the media from

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Speaker 1: around the country, around the world converges on a scene

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Speaker 1: like this. We're talking about an elementary school that looks

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Speaker 1: just like the one I went to in Mississippi, you know,

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Speaker 1: a picturesque elementary school, playground equipment, and then to see

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Speaker 1: that school completely reamed by law enforcement combing through that

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Speaker 1: school trying to identify these nineteen little bodies. It just

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Speaker 1: stood and start contrast and nanthy at. A point that

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Speaker 1: I've also made is that this is very reminiscent for

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Speaker 1: me personally of the Sutherland Spring shooting in two seventeen.

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Speaker 1: I was on the ground there as well, and it

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Speaker 1: just as a reminder that these types of events are

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Speaker 1: not limited to urban areas, but instead, or now, we're

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Speaker 1: seeing them play out in small cities. Ubaldi a sixteen

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Speaker 1: thousand people across our country. You know Tony Plahovski joining

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Speaker 1: me from the scene. They're in Texas. He is with

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Speaker 1: Kvu Kvue and Austin American Statesman. What you just said

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Speaker 1: about rab elementary, It's so odd. I thought the very

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Speaker 1: same thing. It looked like my public elementary school in

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Speaker 1: middle Georgia, and the middle of unincorporated bib County. Doctor

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Speaker 1: John h Rd Elementary looks almost exactly like it. What

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Speaker 1: time of the day did the shootings take place, Tony Plahotski,

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Speaker 1: Manthy just right before lunch, right around eleven thirty is

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Speaker 1: when authorities started getting the nine one one call and

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Speaker 1: law enforcement, state, federal, local law enforcement converge on the scene.

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Speaker 1: But Nancy, they had troubles to doing this suspect because

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Speaker 1: he apparently was wearing some type of armor that prevented

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Speaker 1: them from taking him down. So clearly a lot of

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Speaker 1: thought and a lot of preparation, Tony. Where was he

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Speaker 1: when he was finally subdued and shot inside the school building? Nancy?

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Speaker 1: I don't know at this point exactly if he was

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Speaker 1: in a classroom, in the hallway, in the library, and

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Speaker 1: the cafeteria. I don't have that level of detail. What

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Speaker 1: I can tell you, though, is that of the two

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Speaker 1: guns that he purchased just last week, one of them

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Speaker 1: was in his crashed out vehicle. The other one, of course,

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Speaker 1: was with him. And I'm curious about how he got in,

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Speaker 1: whether the school had any type of security, whether they

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Speaker 1: kept the doors locked. You know, just the other day,

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Speaker 1: Tony Blahatski, I was leaving the Twins School and saw

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Speaker 1: a door to the outside propped open. It's a really

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Speaker 1: hot day. I turner right back around and call the

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Speaker 1: school and wait. Differ than to shut that door, because

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Speaker 1: that's a kind of security breach that can end up

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Speaker 1: in a school shooting or some other crime. I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: about the eleven thirty am attack. Now. Isn't it true,

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Speaker 1: Tony Plaatski, that this guy, that defendant, Salvador Ramos, lived

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Speaker 1: not very far from the school? Isn't that right? That

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Speaker 1: is my understanding. And the fat Nancy have been on

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Speaker 1: the ground talking to people this morning who said that

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Speaker 1: they heard what they believe were the gunshot or a

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Speaker 1: gunshot and during which he shot his grandmother, and then

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Speaker 1: saw his car racing toward the school. This is a

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Speaker 1: really small neighborhood home, they're very near each other, and

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Speaker 1: so then people reportedly saw him get out of that

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Speaker 1: car and run into that school, and then of course

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Speaker 1: the sport of gunfire the hall a full of Tony.

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Speaker 1: Did you say people observed him get out of the

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Speaker 1: car and run in. That is my understanding. Yes, I'm

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Speaker 1: just wondering if he crashed the car for some reason.

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Speaker 1: We also know that many, if not all, of the

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Speaker 1: nineteen dead children were fourth graders. Is that right, Tony?

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Speaker 1: And who are the teachers yet, two teachers and Nancy.

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Speaker 1: This is a school of about just four hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty students ages came through fourth grade. Sadly were told

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Speaker 1: that that one of the victims was ten years old

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Speaker 1: and his mother had actually attended an award ceremony just

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Speaker 1: a couple of hours earlier at that school. Four it

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Speaker 1: was the last time she saw her young adorable son.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace Guys joining me there on

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Speaker 1: the scene is Tony Platsky with KVUE and the awesome

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Speaker 1: American Statesman. Take a listen to the Valdi Chief of Police.

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Speaker 1: At approximate eleven thirty two am this morning, there was

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Speaker 1: a mass casualty incident at rob Elementary School in New Valdi, Texas.

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Speaker 1: This school has children that are in second, third and

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Speaker 1: fourth grade. I can confirm right now that we have

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Speaker 1: several injuries adults and students, and we do have some deaths.

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Speaker 1: The suspect is deceased. At this point, DPS is assisting

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Speaker 1: with the investigation, and at this point the investigation is

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Speaker 1: leading to tell us that the suspect did act alone

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Speaker 1: during this HIAENUS crime. Families are being notified and we

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Speaker 1: are providing services to them as the district should as

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Speaker 1: far as the rest of the districts concern. Safety measures

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Speaker 1: were taken to make sure that we had a safe

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Speaker 1: release for the rest of the district throughout our city

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Speaker 1: of U Valley, and we had numerous law enforcement officers

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Speaker 1: and agencies that assisted with a safety release for those students.

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Speaker 1: We do want to keep all our families in their prayers.

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Speaker 1: I hope you do as well, and we also want

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Speaker 1: to respect the privacy of the family. The crime scene

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Speaker 1: is still being worked on, and again we'll notify the

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Speaker 1: parents and the families as soon as we have some

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Speaker 1: news for them. They're on the scene. Tony Polhetski joining

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Speaker 1: me from KVU, I understand that a Border patrol officer

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Speaker 1: heard the shots and raced into the shooting to an

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Speaker 1: active shooting scenario and he is the one that shot Ramos.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct? That is correct, and I do want

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Speaker 1: to also mention that there are law enforcement officers who

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Speaker 1: were shot and injured as part of these events as well, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Later today we are expected to get some clarity as

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Speaker 1: well around number of students and faculty members who were

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Speaker 1: injured as well. That that count as these things often

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Speaker 1: do in a situation like this, continues to be somewhat fluid.

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Speaker 1: I understand, Tony Palhetsky, that the sheet or Salvador Rabos

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Speaker 1: was known by police. That is my understanding as well.

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Speaker 1: We are still trying to get those investigatory details as well.

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Speaker 1: But Nancy, before I have to go to this news conference,

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Speaker 1: I do want to just take a minute to talk

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Speaker 1: about this community here in Ubalday and just the amount

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Speaker 1: of grief. As you can imagine, this is a town

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Speaker 1: of sixteen thousand people. The local funeral home Nancy just

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Speaker 1: announced this ay or providing free services to all of

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Speaker 1: the victims of yesterday's tragedy, really underscoring, you know, how

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Speaker 1: this community is trying to come together and support each

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Speaker 1: other as that they can. But to say that it

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Speaker 1: has been ripped apart is obviously an understatement. You know,

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Speaker 1: Tony Platsky, you and I have been friends and colleagues

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Speaker 1: for a very, very long time. You have been in

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Speaker 1: my life since the twins were born, and knew of

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Speaker 1: them and about them when they were this age the

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Speaker 1: fourth grade. The scene of the parents running into the

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Speaker 1: shooting yesterday just broke my heart. I mean, tell me,

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Speaker 1: the scene. What are you seeing? So, I mean, tragically,

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Speaker 1: It is my understanding, and this of course makes perfect

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Speaker 1: that these little children did not have unlike maybe me

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Speaker 1: or you or most adults, identifying features. And so it

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Speaker 1: is my understanding that authorities are using DNA to try

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Speaker 1: to identify these children. But Nancy tragically, and this is

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Speaker 1: just almost impossible to speak, but authorities were also interviewing parents,

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Speaker 1: what type of clothing did you send your child to

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Speaker 1: school in this morning, and using that level of information

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Speaker 1: to try to figure out which of these children was

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Speaker 1: among the living and among the dead. I saw parents

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Speaker 1: going in and out giving DNA, yeah, to help identify

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Speaker 1: the children, and I think that some of them were

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Speaker 1: facially disfigured in the shooting. The little children huddled together,

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Speaker 1: sitting next to their best friends, as this guy, Salvador

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Speaker 1: Ramos may he burn in Hell, said you're gonna die.

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Speaker 1: It's what he said to them. You know, Tony, I

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Speaker 1: know you're rushing off. I just want to tell you

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Speaker 1: my twins are graduating middle school, and last night in

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Speaker 1: the rain, I was out hammering in yard letters congratulations

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Speaker 1: for them to see this morning, and while I was hammering,

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Speaker 1: I thought of these parents that will never see their

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Speaker 1: children grow up. I know the town and the families

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Speaker 1: are torn apart. Tony absolutely, Nancy, you go to your

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Speaker 1: press or Tony, I'll circle back with you when the

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Speaker 1: press conference is done. Tony Platsky joining me, investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: Austin American Statesman, and Kvue. I have an all star panel,

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Speaker 1: but I'm going to start with my long time friend

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Speaker 1: and colleague Karen Start joining me, New York psychologist Karen.

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Speaker 1: I just don't even know what to say. It just

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Speaker 1: one school shooting after the next, after the next, and

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Speaker 1: now fourth graders, Karen Nancy. Heartbreaking, just heartbreaking. And this guy,

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Speaker 1: he really fits the profile of the kind of person

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Speaker 1: who commits this crime, somebody who's an outsider, isolated, clearly prepared.

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Speaker 1: As soon as he turned to eighteen, he went and

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Speaker 1: got those guns and knew exactly what he was going

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Speaker 1: to do. It's not an impulse at all. And it's

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Speaker 1: horrific that these parents when I think about not being

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Speaker 1: able to identify your own children, having to give DNA,

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Speaker 1: not having answers, and it reminds me of September eleventh,

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Speaker 1: of any attack where they're mass people who are dead

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Speaker 1: and you don't know is your child alive and did

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Speaker 1: so stunningly heartbreaking. Another time you and I were together,

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Speaker 1: both of us in New York at the time on

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Speaker 1: nine one one with me Karen Stark, New York Psychologists

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Speaker 1: joining us. You can find her at Karen Stark dot com.

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Speaker 1: Karen with the Sea. You know. Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,

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Speaker 1: star of a new series Body Bags, with Joe Scott

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Speaker 1: Morgan on iHeart, I just I hardly know where to start,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott. I mean, at times like these and I

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Speaker 1: was confronted with mass murders as a district assistant district attorney,

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Speaker 1: I felt like I would go in machine mode and

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Speaker 1: just start processing evidence and analyzing what I need to

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Speaker 1: prove the case. I cannot even imagine analyzing this scene.

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Speaker 1: It's overwhelming. It's overwhelming mentally and spiritually too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it bores down into your soul. But you have to.

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Speaker 1: You have to set your face like flint, as they

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Speaker 1: say in Driving Forward and processes because difficult as it

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Speaker 1: is to do, And just for a moment, let me

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Speaker 1: reflect back. I had a good friend of mine that

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Speaker 1: was at the Oklahoma City bombing and he was a

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Speaker 1: print specialist and they had we didn't have DNA back then,

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Speaker 1: and so you remember the nursery got wiped out there.

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Speaker 1: He had to go to the home and dust for

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Speaker 1: latent prints on toys and then go back and compare

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Speaker 1: those prints. And so that's that's what these investigators. I

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Speaker 1: saw him in front of a crowd of about a

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Speaker 1: thousand investigators weeping. This has on the people that practice

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Speaker 1: and have to do this, But you know, going back

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Speaker 1: just kind of stealing yourself here and setting your face,

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Speaker 1: you're giving the badge and you're giving this responsibility for

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Speaker 1: a reason. You have to go in and process the

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Speaker 1: scene as a homicide, because this is what it is.

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Speaker 1: It's just on a grander scale, it is a mass homicide,

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Speaker 1: and each one you honor the dead by treating each

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Speaker 1: one of these little children as an individual homicide. And

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Speaker 1: they have to be processed individually because you don't know

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Speaker 1: when there's going to be an opportunity to learn more

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Speaker 1: about this case. It might come up in trial. You

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Speaker 1: never know what's going to happen in the future, so

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Speaker 1: you have to treat this as if this is the

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Speaker 1: last case you will ever work, and you have to

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Speaker 1: put forth every bit of effort gathering every bit of

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Speaker 1: daddy you own. Do you owe that to the families

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Speaker 1: and you certainly owe that to these children as well.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Amy a roboc the

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Speaker 1: gunman opening fire as soon as he stepped on school grounds,

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Speaker 1: Students reportedly scrambling out of windows to escape. We just

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Speaker 1: hear all kinds of gunshots going off like NonStop, like constantly, gunshots,

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Speaker 1: and the world here are scared. What on the ground

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Speaker 1: fearing for our lives. Fourth grader Jordan leegis telling ABC

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Speaker 1: News about the moments when the gunman began firing shots

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Speaker 1: at his classroom. When he sees the students at our teacher,

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Speaker 1: that's when he starts shooting at the window and the

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Speaker 1: wall right there. So if you start shooting it all up,

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Speaker 1: all kinds of smoke is like in the room as

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Speaker 1: we're in. Their authorities confirming the suspect was armed with

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Speaker 1: an AR fifteen style rifle. Sources telling ABC News all

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Speaker 1: the victims at the school died in the same location

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Speaker 1: inside the school. That tells me, in one classroom, can

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Speaker 1: you imagine the saying, take a listen to our cut

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Speaker 1: six our friends at w FAA. Parents arriving at the

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Speaker 1: school are telling ABC News they don't have much information

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Speaker 1: right now, and at least a few are anxiously trying

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Speaker 1: to find their kids. How long you've been looking for

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Speaker 1: her today, since it happened. What are you worried about

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Speaker 1: right now? She may not be alive. Have you heard anything?

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Speaker 1: I don't know where rather than she's not. In San Antonio,

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Speaker 1: when parents dropped their kids off at school, they have

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Speaker 1: every expectation to know that they're going to be able

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Speaker 1: to pick their child up when that school day ends.

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Speaker 1: And there are families who are in mourning right now,

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Speaker 1: and the stead of Texas is in mourning with them.

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Speaker 1: Police say that the shooter acted alone. I was just

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Speaker 1: thinking about the parents out in the parking lot, and

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Speaker 1: reporters to asking them, what are you thinking? And they

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Speaker 1: say whether my child is dead or alive? And I

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Speaker 1: immediately flash in my mind to my children's school where

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Speaker 1: they have gone since pre K and pacing back and

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Speaker 1: forth wondering what's going on in there? Are John, David

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Speaker 1: and Lucy dead or alive? I don't even know how

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Speaker 1: the parents had the wherewithal to speak with me. Is

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Speaker 1: David Kat's former senior Special Agent with the DA, founder

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Speaker 1: and CEO of Global Security Group, Inc. He is an

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Speaker 1: active shooter response expert. Davy Kats, take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our cut for this is the Texas governor by mind

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Speaker 1: is this, however, and that is when parents drop their

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Speaker 1: kids off at school, they have every expectation to know

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Speaker 1: that they're going to be able to pick their child

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Speaker 1: up when that school day ends. And there are families

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Speaker 1: who are in mourning right now, and the State of

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Speaker 1: Texas is in mourning with them for the reality that

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Speaker 1: these parents are not going to be able to pick

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Speaker 1: up their children. Our job is multifold. First to make

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Speaker 1: sure we address exactly what happened to this crime scene,

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Speaker 1: and then second to make sure we take that information

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Speaker 1: and do everything that is necessary to ensure that crime

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Speaker 1: scenes like this are not going to be repeated in

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Speaker 1: the future and that we're going to be able to

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Speaker 1: ensure the safety and security of our schools. To you,

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Speaker 1: Davy Kats, thank you for being with us again. Active

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Speaker 1: shoot or Response expert at Global Security Group, Inc. David

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Speaker 1: second verse, same as the first I know. We can

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Speaker 1: learn from the crime scene, that is without doubt. But

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Speaker 1: once we get that knowledge, David, what are we going

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Speaker 1: to do with it? Nothing? Because when you don't know

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Speaker 1: a horse, look at the trick record. How many school shootings,

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Speaker 1: mass school shootings have we suffered in this country? And

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Speaker 1: what if anything has been done about it? Before I

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Speaker 1: go totally ballistic. Yes, schools now know that they should

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Speaker 1: keep all the entrances and exits locked during the day.

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Speaker 1: Many of them have metal detectors. Many of them have

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Speaker 1: one point of entry that is secured so you can

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Speaker 1: see who is coming in and out. But other than that, really, David,

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Speaker 1: what have we learned and what can we learn from

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Speaker 1: this shooting there at rob Elementary Emancy. I'm like you,

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Speaker 1: I'm just devastated. I also have I have grown kids,

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Speaker 1: or my youngest will be going into the fourth grade,

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Speaker 1: and I cannot imagine I a better point. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to imagine it. We know exactly, and I mean exactly,

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Speaker 1: how to prevent these things from happening. We just simply

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Speaker 1: don't do it. Let's start with something that is just

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Speaker 1: so basic, so axiomatic. To secure. You mentioned secure, You

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Speaker 1: mentioned points of entry. How about making it You can't

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Speaker 1: make it impossible to force into it anywhere, but you

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Speaker 1: can make it extremely difficult. Apparently the shooter engaged police

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Speaker 1: officers outside the school and was still able to gain entry. Therefore,

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Speaker 1: it is clearly easier, or was easier, for him to

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Speaker 1: gain entry to that school than it was to enter

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Speaker 1: a jewelry store in Brooklyn, New York. You have to

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Speaker 1: make it physical security first. Then you talk about your drills,

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Speaker 1: your preparation, your training, perhaps arm guards and I have

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Speaker 1: a lot of great ideas, you know, we do. We

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Speaker 1: do assessments, you know, at Global all the time. But

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Speaker 1: the first step, if you're a parent listening to this show,

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Speaker 1: demand that your school proved to you that someone could

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Speaker 1: not get in the way this mystery and got into

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Speaker 1: that school. And how, David do you think you got in? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's one thing to haven't identified yet. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: am I'm praying it wasn't simply an open door or

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Speaker 1: an unlocked door, because I know I live about four

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Speaker 1: hours from a little less than four hours from from Welby,

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Speaker 1: and I've been out there and often communities like that

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Speaker 1: where everyone knows everyone else. And by the way, those

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Speaker 1: police officers responding to the scene. They probably had children

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Speaker 1: in that school, if you can imagine that, that horror.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know the culture there. It was just

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Speaker 1: simply simply an unlocked door, or it was someone who

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Speaker 1: just buzzed in, or if he was able to just

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Speaker 1: fire through the glass and get in that way, that

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Speaker 1: should be You should not be able to force entry

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Speaker 1: without a determined effort using tools or other methods. And

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Speaker 1: it's not hard to do and it's not expensive to do.

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Speaker 1: Why have we not done that? That's the question that

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Speaker 1: everyone needs to ask themselves. It's not a matter of

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Speaker 1: putting arm guards in every school. Nice nice to have

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Speaker 1: that ability, but financially many districts can't. But we certainly

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Speaker 1: can lock the damn door. Well, put lock the damn door.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're right. Every time I look at where

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Speaker 1: the twins may go to school, I check out security first.

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Speaker 1: I deal with everything else after that. With m Kathleen

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Speaker 1: Murphy family lawyer joining us at North Carolina at NC

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Speaker 1: Domestic Law dot com. Jump in, Kathleen. It's very difficult

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Speaker 1: for me to jump in after listening to David, because

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Speaker 1: my first thought is not locking the doors, although we

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Speaker 1: should do that, My first thought is, why are assault

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Speaker 1: rifles even available in this day and a such that

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Speaker 1: this eighteen year old could go get them and terrorize

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Speaker 1: these poor families? What are we going to do about that?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's such a huge, huge problem, and Congress

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Speaker 1: is hearing about it. Take a listen to Senator Chris

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Speaker 1: Murphy begging on the floor of our Congress, what are

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Speaker 1: we doing? Why are you here? If not to solve

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Speaker 1: as this? This isn't inevitable. These kids weren't unlucky. This

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Speaker 1: only happens in this country and nowhere else, Nowhere else

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Speaker 1: to little kids go to school thinking that they might

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Speaker 1: be shot that day. Nowhere else do parents have to

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Speaker 1: talk to their kids as I have had to do

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Speaker 1: about why they got locked into a bathroom and told

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Speaker 1: to be quiet for five minutes just in case a

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Speaker 1: bad man entered that building. Nowhere else does that happen

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Speaker 1: except here in the United States of America. And it

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Speaker 1: is a choice. It is our choice to let it continue.

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Speaker 1: What are we doing now? Listen to our cut eighteen

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Speaker 1: Essie literally begs, Sandy Hook will never ever be the same.

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Speaker 1: This community in Texas will never ever be the same.

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Speaker 1: Why why are we here? If not to try to

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Speaker 1: make sure that fewer schools and fewer communities go through

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Speaker 1: what Sandy Hook has gone through, what Uvaldi is going through.

429
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: Our heart is breaking for these families. Every ounce of

430
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: love and thoughts and prayers we can send, we are sending.

431
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: But I'm here on this floor to beg, to literally

432
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: get down on my hands and knees and beg my

433
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: colleagues find a path forward here, work with us to

434
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: find a way to pass laws that make this less likely,

435
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: and talk about salt being rubbed into the wounds. Take

436
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut fifteen. This is Fred Getenberg.

437
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: He is the father of the Parkland victim Jamie Gutenberg

438
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: speaking to MSNBC. But I'm shaking, but I like to

439
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: tell them all to go f off because what they did,

440
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: what they do, the way they politicize guns and violence,

441
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: led us to this day where and I don't know

442
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: what the latest number is, I think we have fourteen

443
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: dead parents, loved ones who their world is spinning, who

444
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: right now have to think, how am I going to

445
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: plan a funeral? Who right now have to think what

446
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: kind of casket? Who right now have to think all

447
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: I did was sent them to school and I have

448
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: to plan their funeral and I have to write a eulogy.

449
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: I have to comfort those who I love, my other children,

450
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: my spouse, my friends, my neighbors. I have to figure

451
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: out how to go forward. I'll be honest to call

452
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: it took me a good solid twenty four hours before

453
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: my world stopped spinning to the point where I really

454
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: kind of grasp what was happening. And another Parkland shooting parent,

455
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: the parent of Joaquin, all of our business Manuel, all

456
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: of our speaking in our cut fourteen lessen. If people

457
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: were dead, at least I will have a reason to

458
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: understand what's going on. It's worse and death. It's about money,

459
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: it's about interest, it's about power. Our politicians or House

460
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: of Congress and sending they do nothing after this, then

461
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: they're somehow outside of the equation of probably getting shot

462
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: or their kids. But you know what, it's going to

463
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: take more kids dying, or maybe they won't react even

464
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: with more kids dying. It's not only been five years,

465
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: it's been more than two hundred and fifty thousand victims

466
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: of gun violence since my son, Joaquin, my beautiful son, Joaquin,

467
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: my innocent son, Joaquin was shot four times to the

468
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: night of fifteen and today we saw how an eighteen

469
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: year old in Texas I was able to carry a

470
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: web and kill kids inside their school. Shame on any politician, corporation, celebrity,

471
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: all those celebrities that came out four years ago. Where

472
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: are you today? Where are you now today? Because I'm

473
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: still here joining me for former senior special agent with

474
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: the d E a CEO Global Security Group and Active

475
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: Shooter Response expert, describe for our viewers and listeners what

476
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: is an AAR fifteen and they're fifteen? And I know

477
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: the parlance is to call it in a Saul rifle,

478
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: but that's not that's not correct. A Soaul rifle by definition,

479
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: has the ability to go fully automatic, still still makes

480
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: it affect is just more rapid firestill does not diminish

481
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: the lethality of a fully semi automatic rifle in the

482
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: hands of a violent individual like this. The AR fifteen

483
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: is a basically the civilian version of the M sixteen

484
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: rifle that was used in Vietnam. It is not fully automatical,

485
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: though it can fire rapidly in a semi automatical fashion.

486
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: The invariably the argument's going to come down to the

487
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: gun itself, and whether we should allow this type of

488
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: firearm to be to be purchased legally. I would suggest this.

489
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: There's going to be heated debate on both sides of

490
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: that issue. But one thing I think we all regardless

491
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: of party, can agree on that we should make it

492
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: incredibly difficult, if not outright impossible, for a person who

493
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: is you, I'm going to go out. I don't need

494
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: you to limb. I know the best experience. This individual,

495
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: Ramos was known to police. I guarantee it. He was

496
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: known to the schools, I guarantee it. He was known

497
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: to the social media community, I guarantee it. And yet

498
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: there is no mechanism by which we can stop someone

499
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: like this who basically is announcing to the world I

500
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: Am about to do something really horrific, and that person

501
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: can still walk into a gun shop and purchase a

502
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: weapon illegally. At least we can agree on this. People

503
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: like that who are announcing their intention should be on

504
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 1: some sort of list where they cannot act an additional scrutiny,

505
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: and possibly just to preserve due process, but at least

506
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: have some level of scrutiny to make sure that can

507
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 1: happen well. You're right, and what I'm thinking of based

508
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: on what you're saying, is not just a background check,

509
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: but a social media check. I mean, look, employers do

510
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: social media checks before they hire somebody. I do. I

511
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: want to find out what their history is, not just

512
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,760
Speaker 1: what they're showing me at the time with the interview.

513
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: I want to find out who they are and what

514
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 1: face they present to other people. Because in this case,

515
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: we now know that he actually bragged to a girl online.

516
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you a little secret, he says,

517
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: I'm about to and lays it out. He was known

518
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: to police for numerous violent arguments with his mother, and

519
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 1: she's no angel, apparently with drug problems of her own.

520
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: But he was, as David Katz is stating, known to police,

521
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: he bragged online. There's no question about it, as so

522
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: many schools shooters do. Joe Scott Morgan, I want to

523
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts, you know, Nancy, I think that there

524
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: was planning that went into this, and this is why

525
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: I believe this. This fellow lived in this town, very

526
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: small town, and his grandmother allegedly had worked at this location.

527
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: What do we know about elementary schools, particularly when you're

528
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: talking about case through four. When it gets to me

529
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: about eleven thirty in the morning, people's guard goes down

530
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: at that point, Why, well, you begin the lunch room cycle,

531
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: and so you have to march these kids down the

532
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: hallway in order to get them to the lunch where

533
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 1: they can eat, and they eat and shifts. Essentially, he

534
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: was probably aware of that, aware of the timing. I

535
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: would think that at that point in time he would

536
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 1: have known that that's a vulnerable time in which to

537
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: enter the school. And why in elementary school. You know,

538
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: he was allegedly a student at the high school in town,

539
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: and word is is that he was upset over the

540
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: fact that his friends had graduated and he had not

541
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: graduated at the school. And so is he striking out

542
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: at the community at large because he thinks that the

543
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: youngest and the most helpless among us, he's going to

544
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: go in and actually slaughter them. He went there with purpose, Nancy,

545
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: And that goes to a bigger issue that is actually

546
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: Karen's Baileywick. That goes to a bigger issue where this

547
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: guy's got some serious psychopathology going on. The answer, Well,

548
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: you may say serious, I believe he says psychopathology. But

549
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: unless it rises to insanity. To hell with him? All right,

550
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: that's just the deal. That's the lawn, and it's right

551
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: jumping Karen start. Yeah, it's that. It's not the kind

552
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: of psychopathology that you're thinking. I mean, these are people

553
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: that don't have that kind of history of severnmental illness.

554
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: They they are a grudge, just like what jo Scott

555
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: said that everyone graduates but him. He piles insult and

556
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: have the insult and he begins to feel rage, and

557
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: it's very planned out. It's something that he knew he

558
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: was going to do. Turns eighteen, gets those guns, knew

559
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 1: where he was going, knew what he wanted to do.

560
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: Because he joins this terrific brotherhood of killers who have

561
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: decided that they're going to take their their rage out

562
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 1: on innocent children. That's what happens, you know. Kathleen Murphy

563
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: joining us out of North Carolina at NC Domestic Law

564
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 1: dot com. We have been told that he had been

565
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,959
Speaker 1: bullied and made fun of because he was poor. All right,

566
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: we were poor. I was poor. My mother was poor.

567
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: She never had anything. They didn't make on their sewing machine.

568
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: Long story short, what did he do? Did he go

569
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: out and get a job to make money. What did

570
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 1: he do? And listen to this. Kathleen Murphy, an Instagram

571
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: friend of Ramo, said he sent photos of a receipt

572
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: for the gun and from the gun manufacturer. We also

573
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: know that he put photos of the firearm and the

574
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: ammunition online. I just outreached Nancy, but you have to

575
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: do this personal story. My son is in tenth grade.

576
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: He was the only student in a fifteen hundred to

577
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: two thousand student in high school that reported that there

578
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 1: were guns in the men's bathroom and that the children

579
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: were taking photos of these guns in the men's bathroom

580
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: or the boys bathroom and sharing it among the other students.

581
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: My kid left campus, called me immediately. We called the police.

582
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 1: Those students are now out of the school. And the

583
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 1: problem is that it's so close to home. Why are

584
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: we working from the bottom up. Why don't we start

585
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 1: from the top get rid of these kinds of guns,

586
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: Because you and I both know looking at the psychopathology

587
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: of each individual person before they get a gun, it's

588
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: a joke, a joke. Well, let's address what you just said,

589
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: David Cats. I can tell you why these guns are

590
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: not going to be outlawed in the US, okay, because

591
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: our Congress is paralyzed by one of the strongest lobbies

592
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 1: in the world, and that is the gun lobby. So

593
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,479
Speaker 1: we're not going to get rid of the guns. So

594
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 1: now what can we do? Why can't we Have you

595
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: ever heard of a cooling off period? For instance, you

596
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: just can't walk up and get a marriage license. It's

597
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: not instantaneous. Why is it that there can't be a

598
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: cooling off period from the time you apply for a

599
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: gun to the time you get it. A social media check,

600
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: a background a check. David Scats, what is your opinion

601
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: on that. You're the active sheet or response expert. Well,

602
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: you know, the first of faulty. Every time anyone buys

603
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: a firearm you go through there, there's an FBI check.

604
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: One must be performed. However, all that check will do

605
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: a show whether you have a conviction or criminal a

606
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: criminal offense that will that will preclude you from owning firearms, right,

607
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: That's that's the one thing. But that doesn't show you if,

608
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: by the way, the police have been call to your

609
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: house thirty seven times because he's threatened violence against grandmother.

610
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,240
Speaker 1: So that doesn't call it doesn't have any any provision

611
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: for tracking whether a school psychologist said this kid is

612
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: out of his striking mind. It doesn't have any way

613
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: figure out if your neighbors have called because you've done

614
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: something else to create a level of concern with respect

615
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: to that, and that what has to change, because look,

616
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: I understand I'm probably on a different side of the

617
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: argument with respect to firearms ownership than many several of

618
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: us talking right now. Rather than just bang our heads together,

619
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: why don't we say this, at least let's start here,

620
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: at least let's pass something, because I always judge law

621
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: for what people talking about legislation, would the lawyer you're

622
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: suggesting have prevented this crime from occurring. That's a good

623
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: place to start. What about it, Kathleen Murphy, I am

624
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: saying that in North Carolina you have to wait a

625
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: whole year just to be divorced. Why can't we wait

626
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: a whole year and make sure we do a proper investigation?

627
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: And David, I agree with everything that you. Why don't

628
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: we start here because the reality of this issue, for

629
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: as much as I am seeing it from a mother's perspective,

630
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: from a lawyer's perspective, it's got to start somewhere. And

631
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: these are good suggestions. Right now, our prayers are with

632
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: the families of those who lost their children and the

633
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: teachers that were killed, and yet another school shooting. Nancy

634
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 1: Grace crime story signing off goodbye friend,