1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: Get in text with technology with text Stuff from housef 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: what Com. Hey there everyone, and welcome to tech Stuff. 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: My name is Jonathan Strickland, I am a host, and 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: my name is Lauren Vogelbaum. I am coincidentally also a host. 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: It's fantastic that we have two hosts together because that 6 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: means we can do a podcast. And today we wanted 7 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: to talk about something we have. One of our listeners 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: asked us about this. It's a it's an interesting story. 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: It's a story about an internet company that had a 10 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: meteorc rise and perhaps and even more meteoric fall. Uh, 11 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: and then it was reborn into something completely different in 12 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: a way Napster and Napster's um it's got a bad rap. 13 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: It it's kind of becomes synonymous with at least the 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: old Napster. The original Napster has become synonymous with things 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: like piracy. Although in the lawless days of the Internet 16 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: when everyone just stole from Lars Ulric, Yes, in fact, 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: he honestly he ended up delivering a lawsuit by hand too, 18 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: so full of ire he was, Yes, he took this. 19 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: I think I don't know. I don't know that. I 20 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: don't know that even a member of Metallica can carry 21 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: a sixty thousand page maybe by hand truck, I'm not sure. 22 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: I'm not sure by hand, but sure, series of CDs. Yeah. 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: So anyway, let's talk about Napster and what it was 24 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: and what it is today, because it's it's definitely changed 25 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,839 Speaker 1: quite a bit. So it's a it's it's all about really, 26 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: it's all about music. It's technically it's about file sharing, 27 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: but those files are were essentially music files MP three files. 28 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: Napster limited itself to MP three files. Lots of other 29 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: peer to peer sharing networks used, you know, you could 30 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: you could get movies on their all kinds of stuff, games, everything, 31 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: any kind of file. Well, Napster was all about all 32 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: about MP three and and you have to understand, like 33 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: the the days when we first start looking at this idea, 34 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: that's way back in the late nineties. Back then, music 35 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: was not something that you could easily get on the internet. 36 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: It was first of all, anything that was on a 37 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: web page was MIDI based or whatever it was, or 38 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: mod based. It was just it was not anywhere close 39 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: to CD quality. We didn't have an iTunes store that 40 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Yeah, there wasn't, you know, but there 41 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: were people who what they would I just say completely, 42 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: I just said that. When iTunes was founded, that's a 43 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: different show. So anyway, there there's a whole you know. 44 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: iTunes for a long time was just a jukebox type 45 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: of program where you would manage the music that you 46 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: already had. It wasn't a store where you would buy 47 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: new music. It was it was a management system. So really, 48 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: at this time, the way you would get if you 49 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: were someone who wanted to get a music file, you 50 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: would essentially have to search around for someone who was 51 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: hosting music files on a website somewhere and then download them. 52 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: And these these websites were very much unreliable, and uh, 53 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: this is what got a certain guy thinking about different 54 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: ways of going about it. The guy's name was Shan Fanning. Yeah, 55 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: and as he got his first computer and very shortly 56 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: after that created Napster. So that was yeah, it was 57 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,119 Speaker 1: within two years he had gone from getting his first 58 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: computer to creating one of the most influential and notorious 59 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: web services and programs of all time. Yeah. He got 60 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: his computer from his uncle, John Fanning, who ended up 61 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: being a big supporter. Yeah. Yeah, he he provided the 62 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: seed money for for Napster in a couple of years. 63 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: Yet he was also not just interested in programming right 64 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: off the bat, but also interested in Internet Relay Chat 65 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: i r S, which is, you know, one of many 66 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: different protocols that allow you to communicate over the Internet 67 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: and um in an instant instant messagery. Yeah, exactly, as 68 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: opposed to like email or something along those lines. And 69 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: he got interested in the field of Internet security. And 70 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: uh he described himself at the time as a white hat, 71 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: not a hacker. So the idea being that he was 72 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: interested in finding ways to make internet security more robust, 73 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: so and in helping people, not not stealing from people, 74 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: right like, not like he might look at a system 75 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: and say, oh, you have a vulnerability here, you need 76 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: to patch it, as opposed to, oh, you have a 77 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: vulnerability here, give me all your things. Um. That was 78 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: kind of his his at least that's what he said, 79 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: and I have no reason to doubt him. But he 80 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: met virtually a fellow named Sean Parker online in those days, 81 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: and Sean Parker also becomes important in the Napster story. 82 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: So in ninety eight, he was starting to think about 83 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 1: this thing that music files. And by the way, this 84 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: kid is a teenager. I mean, you know, if I'm 85 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: using the word kid, it's not just because I use 86 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: that word for everybody. It's because he was literally like 87 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: seventeen to nineteen at the time. Yeah, he was. He was, uh, 88 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: well that was when he was eighteen turning nineteen. Uh, 89 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: and he he was a freshman at Northeastern University in Boston, 90 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: and he knew that there were a lot of kids 91 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: his age really interested in music and they really wanted 92 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: to find more music. But again, it was really tricky 93 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: to find it online because these websites that would host files, 94 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: they wouldn't last very long. Maybe someone stops um stops 95 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: monitoring it or maintaining it and the links are all dead, 96 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: or because of high traffic, you know, everyone finds out 97 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: that this is where this one file is, everyone goes 98 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: there and then it crashes the site. It was really 99 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: really tricky to find a way to reliably get those 100 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: music files. Also important to note that was when the 101 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,679 Speaker 1: Digital Millennium Copyright Act went into effect. Yes, very important. 102 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: That's a Congress enacted that and uh that was that 103 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: was essentially Congress's way of saying, we understand that intellectual 104 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: property is important that copyright is in and that the 105 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: Internet age has dramatically changed how easy it is to 106 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: distribute material that is under copyright. So here are some 107 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: rules to guide how we can how we can legislate 108 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: this sort of stuff, and essentially criminalized the circumvention of 109 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: any kind of digital rights management right. It also, however, 110 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: created something called safe harbor, which was very important and 111 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: would become extremely important in Napster's case. Safe harbor is 112 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: a concept whereby it says, if your site or service 113 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: is not actively engaged in copyright infringement, but the users 114 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: are using your service in order to conduct copyright infringement, 115 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: you yourself are not at fault. You cannot be held 116 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: at fault for the behavior of your users because the 117 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: users are behaving however they want to behave. You're providing 118 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: a service. As long as your service is not actively 119 00:06:54,839 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: meant to circumvent copyright protection or to distribute copyright write 120 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: materials illegally, then you should be in the clear because 121 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: you cannot be held responsible for what other people do. 122 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: And that's an important concept. It's also one that ultimately 123 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: you could argue was not held up in the case 124 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: of naps Yeah yeah, uh yeah, other. While we're on 125 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: the subject, other concept that became important in this argument 126 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: was the Audio Home Recording Act, of which said that 127 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: you are allowed to make unlimited copies essentially of any 128 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: CDs and cassettes that you own for personal use and 129 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: for your friends, as long as you're not receiving compensation. Right. So, 130 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: again the idea being that if I own something, I 131 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: can make a copy of it. Usually it's considered a 132 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: copy for backup purposes. So for example, let's say I 133 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: own a c D and I want to be able 134 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: to make a second CD in case something happens that 135 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: first one, because I mean I bought that c D. 136 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: I feel that's mine. Uh. And this this is this 137 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: is something, yeah, something that the music industry was not 138 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: so pleased about. I mean every industry. Whenever any sort 139 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: of uh invention has come up that allows people to 140 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: copy material some way, for instance, VCRs and DVRs, the 141 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: various industries get very nervous about it because they're afraid 142 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: that well for multiple reasons, but one of the reasons 143 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: is they are afraid that that's going to impact sales. 144 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: That means that you're going to end up distributing stuff. 145 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: And then you cut out the person or entity that 146 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: is in charge of distributing that, and then they lose 147 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: the copyright and that you know, and that that paid 148 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: to make this thing happen essentially, and that they're going 149 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: to lose money. Yeah, it's huge, huge thing. When VCRs 150 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: came out in the in the early eighties, not but 151 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: I remember. But why are you looking at me, Lauren? 152 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: Is it only because I'm your co host? Is it 153 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: because you actually know that I remember when VCRs came out. 154 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: I'm gonna smile on her face, tells me the answer. 155 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: All I need to know, folks, on all I need 156 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: to know anyway. Um, but yeah, So so that that's 157 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: kind of the state of digital copyright. So meanwhile, Sean 158 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: Fanning is saying, maybe there's a better way of being 159 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: able to find and get the music files that you 160 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: really want, and he starts to come up with this 161 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: idea where the idea would be to create a centralized 162 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: server and that server's job would be to search for 163 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: an index music files and uh, and the way it 164 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: would work is that you would subscribe to the service. UH, 165 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: you would essentially register yourself as a user with the service, 166 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: and then as a registered user, You would get a 167 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: folder that you would put on your hard drive, and 168 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: that folder would be a share double folder. Anything you 169 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: put in that folder could be seen by the service. 170 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: The server, the centralized server could see whatever you put 171 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: in there. Now, in the case of Napster, we're talking 172 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: MP three files. So if you put if you had 173 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: MP three files already on your machine and you put 174 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: them in this folder, it would mean that those would 175 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: be discoverable by that centralized server. So someone else who 176 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: registers with it wasn't called Napster yet. But when they 177 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: register with the service and they search for a particular 178 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: music file and you happen to have that music file 179 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: on your folder, you're a link to. Essentially, your machine 180 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: would pop up and the server would facilitate a connection 181 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: between the person searching and your computer so that the 182 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: file transfer could complete. So, Lauren, let's let's use well, 183 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: we'll use ourselves as an example. Lauren, Let's say that 184 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: you've heard about this band called Common Rotation. All right, 185 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: Common Rotation fronted by Adam Bush, former actor in the 186 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: Buffy the Vampire Slayer series. La He was Warren nerd 187 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: of Doom. So, Lauren, you've heard of Common rotation, and 188 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: you're thinking, I really want to hear this one song 189 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: I've heard about that common rotation does. It's called sit 190 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: Down before I Fall Down. But uh, you know, I 191 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: don't have access to a way of finding this this song. 192 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: Otherwise I go into Napster. It turns out that I 193 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: Jonathan happened to have that song and I have it 194 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: in the share folder for Napster. And when you do 195 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: the search, it put points a link towards my direction, 196 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: towards my computer. You hit the download button. My computer 197 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 1: uploads the file and your computer downloads the file, and 198 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: it's a direct transfer between the two computers. The centralized 199 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: server just access kind of a traffic monitor. Um. And 200 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: the cool thing about this is that when my file 201 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: gets to you, by default, it's going into your share folder. 202 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: You can change those settings, or you could have changed 203 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: those settings back in the day because the service doesn't 204 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: exist anymore, right, or you can pull it out of 205 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: that share folder you wanted to write, but you you don't. 206 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: You don't have to share everything you get, but if 207 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: you did, that would mean that now there's another instance 208 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: of that file that there's two locations, so that if 209 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: you can't, if you have trouble accessing the first location, 210 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: or if if out, yeah, or if I'm not even online, 211 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: like if if my computer is off, you cannot connect 212 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: to my computer. But if Lauren is on and she 213 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: still has that file on her folder, that means person 214 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: number three could come in and get the file from Lauren. 215 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: So every time that someone used Napster, they were actually 216 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 1: increasing its utility. So it's a service that got longer 217 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: the more people used it, and the more the larger 218 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: the numbers joined, the more powerful this service became, right, right, 219 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: And so so early Fanning was was developing this this 220 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: program and coding everything along with Sean Parker, I think, yeah, 221 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: And the story that he did sixty straight hours of 222 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: coding without sleep. That sounds like one of those terrific 223 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: Internet myths. Although with you know, with energy drinks which 224 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: were which were new and the the red Bull was 225 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: brand new and they were downing them in cases they 226 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: were they were. But so they uploaded this beta to 227 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: a website called download dot com and and it hit 228 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: really big and people were so excited about it. Yeah, 229 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: it was very quickly became clear that this this thing 230 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: that they had come up with was going really resonated 231 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: really because there are a lot of people who are 232 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: really interested in music, and there's also there was also 233 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: this growing attitude of if I like one song, but 234 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: I don't like the rest of the album, why should 235 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: I the whole album for one song. And the problem 236 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: at the time was that there was no real way 237 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: to buy song by song unless the band had released 238 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: specifically a single CD right. Other than that, you were 239 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: pretty much out of luck. You had to buy the 240 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: entire album, and so that was why a lot of 241 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: people were turning. One of the reasons why a lot 242 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: of people were turning to piracy because it allowed them 243 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: the freedom to get what they wanted without getting all 244 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: the other stuff. And one of the big arguments people 245 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: have put forward about, you know, the piracy thing, is 246 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: that if the music industry had moved faster to make 247 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: it more of a accessible Yeah, Yeah, if the music 248 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: industry had been moving ahead of the population at the time, 249 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: or thinking ahead, or even just looking at the Internet 250 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: at that time, which they really weren't, Yeah, then they 251 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: could have They could have headed off the whole piracy 252 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: issue to a large extent, Like if you make it 253 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: easy for people to get your stuff, and then people 254 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: will come and pay for your stuff. If, however, it's 255 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: way easier for people to steal your stuff, don't be 256 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: prized when it gets stolen. Yeah, I have I have 257 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: ideas about HBO's content, like like this cable cable television 258 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: in general, and yeah, that's one of those things where 259 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: you know you'd be like, oh, HBO, go, I'm gonna 260 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: get that, and then you realize, wait a minute, if 261 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: I don't have the HBO subscription, I can It's only 262 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: if I already have it. If I already have it, 263 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: why do I any Why do anyway? That's a whole 264 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: different show. Um. But so so back in back, so 265 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: he had this cool idea. His uncle John, who had 266 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: gotten him that first computer, gave him some seed money 267 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: and I think maybe facilitated in an introduction to Eileen Richardson. Right. 268 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: And this is also around the time Sean Fanning has 269 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: decided to call it Napster, which was based off a 270 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: nickname he had in junior high school based on his hairstyle. Wow, 271 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: that's amazing. Yeah, that's just thought I have, Like I 272 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: have to get this fact out there, and if I 273 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: don't say it now, it's not gonna happen. So Eileen 274 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: Richardson was a venture capitalist, une very funky one. All 275 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: you know, all the pund hair right right, all the 276 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: reports about her like, yeah, she goes to Amsterdam to 277 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: listen to bands and just got pink hair. It's really cool. Yeah, 278 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: But so really she's hardcore. She she invested in the 279 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: company and signed on as the interim CEO. Exactly. She 280 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: she was someone who had had a lot of experience 281 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: in investing in internet companies. And you know, keep in mind, 282 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: this is ninety nine, so we're still talking before the 283 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: big bubble crash. It's the heady days of the Internet 284 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: when everyone's trying to figure out, like, there's this incredible resource, 285 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: how can we use it to our best advantage? And 286 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: she was one of those people who was right there 287 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: on the bleeding edge looking at the possibilities, and she 288 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: got really excited. She was very much a passionate music fan, 289 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: and so she was a music fan and a venture capitalist. 290 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: Napster fell right into her wheelhouse, so she jumped in. 291 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: She ended up making a very substantial investment, and then 292 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: like like you said, Lauren, she began to interim CEO. 293 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: By by September, there were forty registered Napster users. Um 294 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: and it was connecting a few hundred people at a 295 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: time at any given time. Right and by this time 296 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: on Parker has gone from being an I r C 297 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: buddy to a real life buddy and is working with 298 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: Fanning on this project. Uh. And and it was also 299 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: right around the same time that the Recording Industry Association 300 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: of America also known as the r I double A, 301 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: which represents five of the major music labels like we're 302 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: talking like the big big ones, the ones that own 303 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: everything else, essentially started to really tackle websites that were 304 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: hosting music files that were under copyright. So the r 305 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: I double A was actually actively seeking uh these sites 306 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: being taken down. Now, keep in mind Napsters circumventing all this. 307 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: It's no longer looking at websites that are hosting files. 308 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: It's looking directly at people's hard drives where there's the 309 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: shared folder. So while r I double A is going 310 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: after all these websites, Napster's doing you know, business like gangbusters. 311 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: And when I say business, it's not really business because 312 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: they weren't making money. Yeah, they had revenue generating scheme 313 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: at all. There was no way for Napster to make money. 314 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: It just that wasn't part of what was going on. 315 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: In fact, I'm not sure that was ever really part 316 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: of their their their original plan. Yeah, Originally it was 317 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: all just about sharing and that you know, they knew 318 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: that the service had value, but not in a way 319 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: that they could actually monetize. And although you know, they 320 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: were looking even in the early days, they were looking 321 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: at ways to to to get licenses from various music 322 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: labels where they be able to do things like sell 323 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: music files through napster Um as well as kind of 324 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: you know, diffuse the growing problem of the r I 325 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: double a looking out for or even later on they 326 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: were talking about, you know, trying to find a way 327 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: to count count these hits, count these downloads and and 328 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: tally them up and pay the recording artists and the 329 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: labels and all of that for the music. So, you know, 330 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: it's it's I think it's really important to mention that 331 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: because these these kids really weren't out there going like 332 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: we're gonna steal all the music, right. In fact, they 333 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: were just thinking like, this is a way to share 334 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: stuff and it's a tool for music discovery, which was 335 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: a that was a big deal too, was the idea 336 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 1: like it's it's getting harder and harder to discover music. 337 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: Radio stations might play the same like a couple dozen tracks, 338 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: technically obligated to pay the play the same like forty 339 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: tracks by their contracts. So how do you discover new 340 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: stuff If you don't have the luxury of flying off 341 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: to Amsterdam every few months to listen to a band play, 342 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: Then how do you discover new music? If you're not 343 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: you know, you may not live in a city that 344 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: has a vibrant music community. It makes it really difficult. So, 345 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: you know, although the record industry was doing fine, It's 346 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: profits raised eight percent over the previous year um by 347 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: by the end of the year, UM the R I 348 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: A filed lawsuit against Napster. Right right around that same time, 349 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: Napster hired its first non founding member named ali idar Uh. 350 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 1: And then right at right while that was going on, 351 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: our I Double A was really looking at Napster as 352 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: a true threat, like this was if if the websites 353 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: hosting a few music files were bad, Napster was Darth 354 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: Mader coming out to kill all the Jedi, and so 355 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: R I Double A really started to concentrate on him. 356 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: In fact called Napster a giant online pirate bazarre. That's bizarre, 357 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: b a z a R not bizarre, isn't strange um. 358 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: And so the thing was that as the R I 359 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: double A began to focus on Napster and all this 360 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: news broke about coming after Napster, that just made Napster's 361 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: profile go up even more, which meant more people discovered 362 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 1: the service, which meant that it actually got more popular 363 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: than ever before. Meanwhile, the R I double A was 364 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: specifically looking at charging Napster one hundred thousand dollars for 365 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: every copyrighted work that was infringed, which which is a bunch, 366 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: and that's a lot. And remember, this is a service 367 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: that grows incredibly every time someone new joins in, especially 368 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: if that person has files on their computer that wasn't 369 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 1: already spread across the entire uh Napster landscape. So if 370 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: you know, if I join on and I happen to 371 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: have my Tibetan Throat Singing Magical CD that nobody else 372 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: in the whole world owns, and it happens to be 373 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: on my computer, then suddenly I am of more value 374 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: than Napster because there's new stuff that no one had, 375 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: no else has yet. If I happen to have Dave 376 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: Matthew's greatest hits, there's a chance that was already covered 377 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: on Napster. Um, I don't have that album. By the way, 378 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm very proud of you. I'm not I'm not passing 379 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: any judgment. I'm just saying so, uh, yeah, well that 380 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: was fun. But yeah. Here's something that Eileen Richardson specifically 381 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: had to say about Napster, and this comes from an 382 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: interview she did with Salon where this was after Metallica, 383 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: after after Lars Alric himself, it came by and dropped 384 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: off this this huge lawsuit because it wasn't just r 385 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: I double A that came after Napster. Individual labels and 386 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: bands also came after Napster. And uh and so she said, 387 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: I think and then in brackets because this is not 388 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: exactly what she said, but Metallica and the recording industries 389 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: actions are based on a lack of knowledge and fear. 390 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: When you're afraid of something that you don't understand, you react, 391 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: usually with the lawsuit. But over time, and we see 392 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: this absolutely every single day, everybody's learning. We're learning about 393 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: the music industry. They're learning about the Internet. I'm confident 394 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: that we'll get there together. Now. As it turns out, 395 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: her words were not quite prophetic. She was giving a 396 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: little too much credit, I think to all sides on 397 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: this issue. I don't mean to paint the r I 398 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: double A as being this evil uh entity. They were 399 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: looking out for their interests in a very very passionate way. 400 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: I meanwhile, Napster was looking out for their interests in 401 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: a very way. I think that everyone involved was being 402 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: a little bit shortsighted about exactly what needed to happen. Yeah. No, 403 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: but there is no doubt that the music industry had 404 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: not really figured out the Internet yet, in fact, because 405 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: no one had a music store that was really of 406 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: any true utility at this point. And so that's why 407 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: when you have a service that allows people to get 408 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: what they want, they go to it. Whether that's piracy 409 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: service or if it's one that's legitimate, doesn't matter. If 410 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: you give the people what they want, that's where they're 411 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: gonna go. And the music industry had not yet figured 412 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: out how to give the people what they wanted, and 413 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: so that was the problem. By the way, I still 414 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 1: remember the days when I would actually want to buy 415 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: an album because I like the album experience. But even 416 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: at this point in the nineties, I was one of 417 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 1: these people. I was one of the people saying, I 418 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: don't want to buy an entire album. I just like 419 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: this one song, and you know, and I can't think 420 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 1: of the last time besides like a soundtrack to a 421 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: musical because jazz hands, I can't think of the last 422 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: time I sat down and listen and to an album 423 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 1: from start to finish. That's that's actually how I kind 424 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: of usually do it myself. If if I have like 425 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: an artist well enough, I'll buy the album and sit 426 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: down and listen to it several times through. Actually, but 427 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: it's been a long time I've done that with They 428 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: might be giants, I've done that with them, But it's 429 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: Jonathan Colton but and Marian call but beyond like a 430 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: few artists, I just don't like fun No, I just 431 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: went out and bought the one, the one that everyone 432 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: listens to. But anyway, getting back to to Napster, and 433 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 1: around two thousand and they secured around of funding from 434 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: Hummer wind Bald, which installed a man named Hank Barry 435 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: as the CEO of Napster. Again, another interim CEO, so 436 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: Hank Berry takes over for Eileen Richardson in two thousand 437 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: and his main concern was to try and resolve the 438 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: legal issues that had popped up between Napster and the 439 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: r I double A. Uh and other people on his 440 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: management team took over the day to day executive decisions 441 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: of keeping the company going. So really, uh, Hank Barry 442 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: was just looking at the legal issues, not not how 443 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: to operate the company. Yeah, yeah, sure, but yeah, you know, 444 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 1: it's when you've got people like Dr Dre talking directly 445 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: to you about lawsuits, then you start yeah. Well, and 446 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: there were some there there were some artists who were 447 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: coming out in defense Limp Biscuit Offspring. I think Chuck 448 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: d was, Yes, he was. He was also a big 449 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: supporter of Napster um. Yeah, yeah, that was so, so 450 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: there were artists on either side of the issue. Obviously. 451 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: Two thousand was also when this was another thing that 452 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,239 Speaker 1: got Napster a ton of publicity, when colleges started to 453 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: ban Napster. Yeah. Something I think that I read a 454 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: figure that's something like colleges. It was around across the US, 455 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: It was around in March of two thousand. By March 456 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: of two thousand, it was about a hundred thirty universities, 457 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: but more would join uh and and it was also 458 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: their biggest period of activity. They had upward of seventy 459 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 1: million registered users. Yeah, and around two and a half 460 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: million people connected at any one time. So so keep 461 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: in mind these servers could only handle a certain number 462 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: of connections. They had more than one server. But in 463 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,719 Speaker 1: the early days, if you wanted to use the service, 464 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 1: you would connect to the server, and then about up 465 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: to around four thousand, nine nine nine other people could 466 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: connect to that same server at the same time. Uh 467 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: some of the service could handle larger loads than others, 468 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: but you know, the more you would put in there, 469 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: the slower the whole service would go. So you would 470 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: you would be connected to a server along with thousands 471 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: of other people, which meant that you were limited to 472 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: whatever those other people had in their share folders. Right, 473 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: so not every music file in the world is available 474 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: at any given time. It all depends upon who is 475 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: connected to the service at that moment. Uh And. Originally 476 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: each server was kind of its own independent world and 477 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: independent on you know, just when you signed in with 478 00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: what server you would hit rend and who else would 479 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 1: be in there, you know. But at this time they 480 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,959 Speaker 1: were running about a hundred and forty servers I think 481 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: it's the estimate. And ultimately what their goal was was 482 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: to link all the servers together so that way, if 483 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: I linked to server A and Lauren linked to server B, 484 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: they we would still be able to exchange files. Now, 485 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: in the early days, that was impossible. We would both 486 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: need to be on server A or both be on 487 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: server B for that to work. Uh So anyway, uh, 488 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: the universities and colleges also began to notice that that 489 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: uploads were the upload spies were really dying on campus 490 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: because people people were using the service, and that, um 491 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: I think I think that by it might have been 492 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: in two thousand one of January, Indiana University noticed that 493 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: up to of its network resources were being used by Napster. Yeah. Yeah, 494 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: And Oxford University really suffered because here's the thing about 495 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: Oxford University. They had to pay for any data transferrals 496 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: that were transatlantic, So any files that were passing over 497 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 1: the cables that go underneath the ocean that can did 498 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: Europe to North America. Yeah, so that they had to 499 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 1: pay per bite, a certain amount per bite for that. 500 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: So people on the Oxford campus who were using Napster, 501 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: and we're downloading files directly from computers in the USA. 502 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: We're really driving that up. Yeah, it would have been 503 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: less expensive to have just bought the students the CDs, 504 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: right if if if the college had gone out to 505 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: a music store and just filled up four hundred carts 506 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: with CDs and brought it back to the campus, it 507 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: would have been less expensive. Um. Yeah. And and so 508 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: this was also around the time when uh, this was 509 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: mainly Eileen Richardson's influence here where they were looking at 510 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: incorporating more social tools in Napster, things like instant messenger, 511 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: chat rooms, yeah, irc stuff that they were also found out. Yeah. 512 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: And again this was an idea to kind of help 513 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: users discover new music and learn more about the stuff 514 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: that they're interested in. Uh. And so it was really 515 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: coming a social platform at the same time as it 516 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: was under fire from the industry. Um. And so we're 517 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: getting now to the point where we need to take 518 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: a quick break. But before I say that, remember even 519 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: at this point where Napster's going crazy with huge amounts 520 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: of traffic, remember it, at this stage it's the most 521 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: popular web service that has ever existed. It would be 522 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: dwarfed by things like Facebook in the future. But this, 523 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: this is before Facebook at the time, connecting you know, 524 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: a few million people simultaneously. That was a big deal. Yeah, 525 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: so so huge deal. Still not any way to generate revenue. 526 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: But let's take a quick break, all right, and now 527 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: let's get back to naps here. Alright, So, so two 528 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: thousand's coming gone. We're into two thousand and one, and 529 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: Napster receives an order to shut down. Uh, this is 530 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: an order core order to shut down its services because 531 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: the r I double A has said that napster is 532 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: complicit in copyright infringement suits. It's not just that it 533 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: is a service, it is actively helping people copyright. That's 534 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: essentially what it would have to be for it to 535 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: get around this whole d m C a safe harbor issue, 536 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: and that's a debatable thing. But the judge kind of 537 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: sided with the music industry. Uh, there was a stay 538 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: in the order to two days later. In fact, I 539 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: think a stay was enacted, right, so they didn't have 540 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: to shut down immediately. However, not that much longer, they 541 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: would get another order to shut down and they actually 542 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: would have to do it, uh, and they received right 543 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,479 Speaker 1: around the same time during that stay, they received like 544 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: sixty million dollars investment money from Bert Bertlesman, of course, 545 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: being a giant multimedia company that in fact owned a 546 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: bunch of the companies that were participating in a lawsuit 547 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: against Napster. Yeah, so you have to understand, Okay, So 548 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: Burlsman is this mega multimedia company based out of Germany, 549 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: all right, and it owns lots and lots of stuff, 550 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: lots of different divisions, and these different divisions don't necessarily 551 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: talk to each other. So one division sits there and 552 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: sees Napster and sees lots of potential in it as 553 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: turning it into a revenue generating service. Another division that 554 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with that first division is seeing 555 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: Napster as the pirate that is killing its business and 556 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: it needs to go after it. Well I think that really, 557 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it was extremely savvy of Bertlesman 558 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: to be investing in them at the time, because they 559 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: were looking at it and they were going, this is 560 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: potentially the future. This is how they if you know, 561 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: what they're doing right now is crappy for us. But 562 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: if people people are excited about music, and that's great, 563 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: I think, and if we can monetize that. I think 564 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: Bertlesman would argue that retroactively, it was not a savvy 565 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: move at all. Okay, well sure, but but you know, 566 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: they saw that where the future was going. Unfortunately, was 567 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: the wrong time to implement it, because it just turned 568 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: out that the the the hornets Nest that had been 569 00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: stirred up was so great as to totally derail any 570 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: efforts in turning Napster into a quote unquote legitimate revenue 571 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: generator service. Right, yeah, Well they installed Conrad Hilbert's as 572 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: so hank Berry steps aside. Meanwhile, like just just as 573 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: Conrad Hilberts was taking over, hank Berry had just gone 574 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: before Congress and asked Congress to to form some sort 575 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: of industry wide license agreement for Internet broadcast similar to 576 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: what radio has. And his his argument was that really, 577 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: we're just another distribution platform just like radio, so really 578 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: we should we should have the same opportunity to license 579 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: music the way radio does. The problem with the problem 580 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,479 Speaker 1: with establishing a license for every single file is that 581 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: it's impossible to do because take take a take a 582 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: typical album, that album might have multiple producers, on it, 583 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: and each producer has some level of ownership of the 584 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: track that are on that album. Then you have the 585 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: artists and they also have some ownership on the tracks 586 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: on that album, the composition and of actual performance. Right, 587 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: So securing a license from every single copy like everyone 588 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: who owns part of that content, it's impossible, you know. 589 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: He was saying that for one album, you might have 590 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: to secure hundreds of licenses just to be able to 591 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: have that one album, and then you multiplay that across 592 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: the hundreds of thousands of albums that have always existed 593 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: in the new ones that are coming out every year, 594 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: and you have an impossible situation. There's no way to 595 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: legally follow that rule. So what needs to happen is 596 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: a new legal way. He wasn't arguing, He wasn't arguing 597 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: for for piracy. He was just arguing for a new 598 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: legal means to license music, and that was getting really 599 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: bogged down in Congress. So then he ends up stepping 600 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: aside and uh and Conrad Hilbert takes over. Um. Conrad 601 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: didn't have a whole long time to operate Napster before 602 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: it got shut down. That was an on June eleven, 603 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: two thousand one, that's when Napster shut off its service. 604 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: It still existed as a corporate entity, and it started 605 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: to really concentrate on finding a way to create a 606 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: legal music distribution service. And I say legal with air 607 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: quotes around it, because Napster again would be arguing that 608 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: what they did was they were safe harbor. They were 609 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: only connecting people to do illegal things, right, and that 610 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: that wasn't even the purpose of Napster. The purpose of 611 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: Nabster was sharing music, and that that you know, it's 612 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: the fact that people were using it to share music illegally. 613 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: That wasn't Napster's fault. And you can argue whether or 614 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: not that's naive or sincere. That's not really our place 615 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,719 Speaker 1: to do that. I mean you could certainly, you certainly 616 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: could have used Napster in a perfectly legal means if 617 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: an artist had given full full permission, like I want this, 618 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: you can distribute this any way you like. I have 619 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: no I release all claim to it otherwise I just 620 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,239 Speaker 1: want my music out there, then it would have been 621 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: perfectly legal to to distribute that across Napster. It was 622 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 1: the problem. The problem was there were people doing that 623 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: with stuff where that what they didn't have that, They 624 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: did not have that permission yet. Now you could ask, 625 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: how is this different from taking my copy of a 626 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: CD that I've bought, making a copy and giving it. Yeah, 627 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,720 Speaker 1: all I've done is just changed the way that Lauren 628 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 1: has has received that music. And is it my fault 629 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: that Lauren and maybe two point four million people I 630 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,399 Speaker 1: don't know got that music track I don't know? Um, 631 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: so it got really complex. Yeah. Yeah. So then the 632 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: next note that I have is in two two when um, 633 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: the you know, the company was was still shuttered but working, 634 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: um and they entered into a beta test of a 635 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: secure file trading network that January. Yeah, and uh, and 636 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 1: that was it was something they were really seriously working 637 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: on at the same time as trying to figure out 638 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: a way to stay evolve the growing financial problems they 639 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: were facing as a result of these lawsuits. Yeah. Yeah, 640 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: they were so serious. But as a February Burtlesman just 641 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: kind of offered to buy the company I think for 642 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: for like like twenty million, like not not a whole lot. 643 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: It was it was in addition to it was addition, 644 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: in addition to the money they had already invested into 645 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: the company, which was million I think I could be, 646 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:25,839 Speaker 1: I could be. You know, there are a lot of 647 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: interesting reports on this, so it's kind of hard to follow. 648 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: It's a little bit timmy why yeah, exactly, whibbly wobbly. 649 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,280 Speaker 1: In May two thousand two, Sean Fanning and Conrad Hilbert's 650 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: both resigned, right. This was John Fanning, you know, kind 651 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: of tried to organize a coup. From the way that 652 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: I read it, he was he was trying to oust 653 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: uh Hummer and Hank Berry and all the venture capitalists 654 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: and and there was all of this in fighting within 655 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: the company going on. Fanning eventually filed a lawsuit to 656 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: have Berry and Hummer dismissed from the board of directors. 657 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: It was thrown out of court. But but but yeah, 658 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: as of many things have gotten so bad that um 659 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: that Sean Fanning he quits. Yeah. Yeah. And another interesting 660 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: note is that Sean Fanning apparently never drew more than 661 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: just a regular like paycheck. Yeah. Yeah. His paycheck was 662 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: just it was like a middle of the company type 663 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: of paycheck. After after founding it, he worked as he 664 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: worked as a grant as a coder. Yeah. In fact, 665 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: he apparently started getting into trouble because he was getting 666 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: so many requests for interviews back when Napster was really 667 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: in the news for all this this legal battle stuff. 668 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,919 Speaker 1: He was getting so many requests for interviews. He wasn't 669 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 1: able to meet his his coding uh responsibilities, and he 670 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: started getting in trouble from his boss. Keeping in mind, 671 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: he's the guy who built the tool. Yeah, he's the 672 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: guy who kind of technically hired his boss. So and 673 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: now his boss is like, you kind of need to um, 674 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: you kinda need to get back to work, buddy, Yeah, 675 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: but but so so um Napster denied this sale to 676 00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:00,359 Speaker 1: Bertlesman um, and it kind of just sort of dies there, 677 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: collapsed like a flawn in a cupboard and nice and 678 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 1: that it was trapped like a moth in a bath. 679 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: At that point, there were also the major labels were 680 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: trying to launch their own services. One of them was 681 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: called press Play, which was launched in I think around 682 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: two thousand two and it ended in two thousand three. 683 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: Another one was called music Net, which was also a failure. 684 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,720 Speaker 1: And the problem was that buying music from these services 685 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: was often more trouble than what people thought it was worth. Again, 686 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: it was not. It became easier to pirate music than 687 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 1: it was to buy it, and if it's easier, people 688 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: will do it, and and other other companies like a 689 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,760 Speaker 1: Kaza and things like that were popping up. Yeah, so 690 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: so you had new Tela as well, you had other 691 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: file sharing uh services out there. They were picking up 692 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: where Napster had dropped off. And so there were there 693 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: were a lot of casualties in this whole rise and 694 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: fall of Napster. And you'll keep in mind this is 695 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: just to two thousand two, and um, yeah, yeah, it happened. 696 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 1: I had no idea when we started doing this had 697 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: happened that fast. Because of such a huge name, right, 698 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: you just expect that it had at least a decade 699 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: worth of life. And of course we'll get into what 700 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: Napster is now in just a minute. But besides the 701 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: fact that you had Fanning who never drew anything more 702 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: than just a regular salary, Eileen Richardson had a huge 703 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: career setback. Business Week ran an article that essentially said 704 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: that all of the legal problems were mainly due to 705 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: the way Richardson was running the company, which was not 706 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 1: entirely accurate. I'm not very fair to her. Yeah, how 707 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 1: she was running the company and how she was marketing 708 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,959 Speaker 1: everything because she was she was very like like free 709 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: love about the music. And but yeah, apparently that that 710 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: that hit her pretty hard. And also the Bertelsman CEO, 711 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 1: Thomas Milhoff, was was replaced. He was replaced by another 712 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: CEO when that Napster deal was went so sour, and 713 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: plus the economy itself began to really crumble because keep 714 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: in mind his post dot com crash and the ramifications 715 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: of that are still unfolding in two thousand two. So 716 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: you've got the the company just completely languishing. There's there's 717 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,160 Speaker 1: very little of it left. It ends up going into 718 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 1: Chapter eleven bankruptcy, and then there's a a bankruptcy auction 719 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: held in two thousand two. This is still happening like 720 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: right after another, and a company called Rock CEO purchases 721 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: the assets of Napster h in an auction in two 722 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 1: thousand two. They also that same company purchased that failed 723 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 1: music service called press Play in two thousand three, and 724 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: so they decided to use the the kind of the 725 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: cashet of Napster's name and the foundation of the press 726 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: Play service and combine them together to form Voltron. Except 727 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: by Vultron I mean a legal music service that everyone 728 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,839 Speaker 1: knows the name of, because everyone's heard the name now Napster. Yes, 729 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: So they take some time to develop this, and the 730 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: reason why it took so long is that they had 731 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: to establish those licenses that Napster never could get hold of. Um. 732 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,800 Speaker 1: They had been Napster been trying to do that for 733 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: especially the last two years of its existence. Uh and 734 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 1: and failed and so yeah, And meanwhile, companies like Rhapsody 735 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: UM which was another it wasn't a file sharing thing 736 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: that it was a music music subscription plan. Yeah, we're 737 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: starting to you started to see some early examples of 738 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: other music subscription services. Uh Rock CEO would take years 739 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: to develop this. It would actually not be until two 740 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: thousand and six. So this is four years after they 741 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: bought the assets of Napster that they launched the free 742 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: Napster service. They place Chris Gorog as the chairman and 743 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: CEO of Napster And in that time, what Napster did 744 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: was it used ads to support a free web based 745 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 1: streaming experience. Now, you could stream any song that was 746 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: in Napster's catalog a maximum of three times. After that, 747 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: you had to either purchase the song or never listen 748 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:17,360 Speaker 1: to it again, at least not on Napster. Yeah, you 749 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,399 Speaker 1: had to. You had to purchase the song. Now, nice 750 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,400 Speaker 1: thing about it is that you could purchase a DRM 751 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,360 Speaker 1: free version of the MP three of whatever song it was, 752 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: so you didn't have to worry about Okay, well you 753 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 1: can buy it this song, but you can only play 754 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: it on three machines and after that that's it, because 755 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: that was one of the big problems of early DRM 756 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: music is that you could it would limit how many 757 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,399 Speaker 1: machines you could put it on. And you know, here's 758 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 1: the thing about technology, folks. Our stuff gets out a 759 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: date and we want to replace it occasionally. So if 760 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 1: you tell me that I can only load this on 761 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: three machines, I'm like, well, that's only gonna last like 762 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: five years. Yeah, then I have to buy the song again. 763 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 1: What's what's the deal. And this is where you bring 764 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,360 Speaker 1: into questions like all right, do you you don't obviously 765 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: you don't own the song because you didn't make it, 766 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: but you you own the opportunity to experience that song 767 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: within the realm of a specific kind of license, and 768 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 1: then you're their argument might might be, well, I want 769 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,760 Speaker 1: to use it at home, but none of the things 770 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,840 Speaker 1: I have will play it now. It's complicated. Uh and 771 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: in fact, we could right do a full episode about 772 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: that we've talked about in previous ones. Well. Uh, So 773 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: two thousand six they launch, Chris Gore is the chairman 774 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: and CEO. Uh and uh they try to get it 775 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: moving but doesn't really catch on. For one thing, at 776 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 1: this point, they're starting to to really come into a 777 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 1: competition with iTunes. By now iTunes is really a thing. 778 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: And so from two thousand and six to two thousand 779 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 1: and ten that was Napster's existence. But in two thousand 780 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,640 Speaker 1: and ten, Gorg ends up stepping down and the president 781 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: of Napster also steps down, and best Buy purchases Napster. 782 00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:00,440 Speaker 1: So the Napster CEO, Christopher Allen, becomes the general manager 783 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: of Napster. Because now it's owned by best Buy, it's 784 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,360 Speaker 1: no longer a thing that ROXYO has, and his reporting 785 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:11,760 Speaker 1: relationship is to a best Buy senior executive. So there's 786 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,440 Speaker 1: a new new sheriff in town in a sense. And uh. 787 00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,799 Speaker 1: From two thousand ten to two thousand and eleven it's 788 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: run as the best Buy company. And in two thousand eleven, Rhapsody, 789 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,839 Speaker 1: which Lauren mentioned just a minute ago, acquires Napster and 790 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,879 Speaker 1: folds it into its own streaming music service. So now 791 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 1: Rahapsty and Napster are buddy buddy. Yeah, I think that. 792 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,840 Speaker 1: I think that Rhapsody had been in close affiliation with 793 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,600 Speaker 1: best Buy at the time. Anyway, I think that was 794 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: the official service for the Best Buy line of MP 795 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: three players back when that was a thing. Yep, and 796 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,279 Speaker 1: uh and and Napster still exists now. Granted, keep in 797 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: mind the Napster we're talking about now. Really it has 798 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 1: very little connection to the Napster that was in the 799 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: first half of this podcast. Yeah, it's a it's a 800 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:59,520 Speaker 1: purely subscription service. Um. You can use it to download 801 00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:04,160 Speaker 1: or stream music two different devices devices nobile, you know. 802 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 1: It's got a sleek looking interface. Yeah, and you can 803 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: listen to it like you can if you have a 804 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,359 Speaker 1: compatible home entertainment system, you can listen to it on that. 805 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,759 Speaker 1: You can listen to it on you know, like I said, 806 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:18,480 Speaker 1: like a MP three players of something like like Pandora 807 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,879 Speaker 1: or or Spotify. Although you have you have far more 808 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 1: control than you would on Pandora right right, and when 809 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 1: you subscribe to it, you um cut out all the 810 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 1: ads and all that fans right. In fact, you have 811 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 1: to subscribe to it. You can have a three fourteen 812 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,799 Speaker 1: day trials. I recalled in the United States. I can't 813 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,760 Speaker 1: speak for everywhere in the world. In the United States, 814 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 1: the current subscription rate as of the recording of this 815 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 1: podcast is nine dollars and cents per month. And um 816 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: and yeah, they have apps for Android iOS, BlackBerry, Windows 817 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,839 Speaker 1: phone seven. Uh. They have extra features like tailored playlists 818 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,879 Speaker 1: have been formed by various either you know, sometimes their 819 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,839 Speaker 1: bands or an artist or sometimes it's like a like 820 00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: a music critic for a magazine will make a playlist 821 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,239 Speaker 1: and then they make it available on this so that 822 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: way you can listen to the music that people cooler 823 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: than you are listening to. Uh. And that, by the way, 824 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 1: for me, that's everybody. I'm not I'm not saying like 825 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,200 Speaker 1: you are cooler than I am. I know you knew 826 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: that already. I'm just let you know that. I also 827 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:18,200 Speaker 1: know that. So that's I'll go, especially music wise, I 828 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,800 Speaker 1: will let myself into that category as well. Yeah, you 829 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 1: know that. I was not aware of Neutral Milk Hotel 830 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: until years after they were a thing. That's that's the 831 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,040 Speaker 1: kind of guy, I am, but I was. I was 832 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 1: on board with Mumford and Sons before any of you 833 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,879 Speaker 1: folks knew who they were besides, unless Mumford and Sons 834 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,560 Speaker 1: is listening to this podcast, in which case they probably 835 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,879 Speaker 1: knew about it before I did. But yeah, they also 836 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,399 Speaker 1: had the Rapsy radio stations, so that's more like Pandora, 837 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 1: you know. And they have their own kind of discovery 838 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,680 Speaker 1: algorithms as well, so that you can find music that 839 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,640 Speaker 1: if you already like a certain kind of music, you 840 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 1: can find about. But it is interesting if you go 841 00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,440 Speaker 1: back all the way back to the beginning days of 842 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,040 Speaker 1: Napster and you look at some of the things that 843 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,160 Speaker 1: Eileen Richardson said, it's the very basis for music discovery 844 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,960 Speaker 1: and things like pen Dora. Yeah, the idea she actually 845 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,879 Speaker 1: says in that interview in Salon that if you like 846 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:06,919 Speaker 1: a certain artist, you should be able to find other 847 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 1: music that's similar to that artist, which is exactly what 848 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 1: Pandora is all about, that the Musical Genome project. So 849 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: it was interesting that she was looking ahead and she 850 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 1: was seeing a future that wouldn't really come to maturity 851 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,759 Speaker 1: for almost a decade. Yeah, I think in a lot 852 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 1: of ways, Napster was was you know, it just was 853 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 1: approaching the industry in in an aggressively incorrect way. Um yeah, 854 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,399 Speaker 1: well and and and the industry was reacting in a 855 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 1: very uh like knee jerk way. So the combination of 856 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,160 Speaker 1: the two meant that you were going to have nothing 857 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,760 Speaker 1: but a collision. But but also yeah, just the internet 858 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,160 Speaker 1: infrastructure was not quite there yet to provide monetization for 859 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:45,879 Speaker 1: this kind of thing, and and so you know, all 860 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,239 Speaker 1: of the ideas that they had were really sound and 861 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,839 Speaker 1: just but really, what I think it is is that 862 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,360 Speaker 1: the interesting thing to me is that it really created 863 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,359 Speaker 1: the whole peer to peer approach. I mean, there were 864 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,759 Speaker 1: other peer to peer protocols that were coming into being 865 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,440 Speaker 1: it around the same time as Napster, but Napster was 866 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,040 Speaker 1: the one that thrusted into the spotlight. And you know, 867 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,799 Speaker 1: peer to peer is is is a completely legitimate way 868 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,160 Speaker 1: to get information from one computer to another computer. It 869 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,920 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be for nefarious purposes or piracy or whatever. 870 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,600 Speaker 1: And so I'm very thankful that Napster existed as a 871 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 1: way to kind of get that as as an as 872 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,400 Speaker 1: as a thing. I mean, without it, we might have 873 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 1: gone a few more years before anyone really realized the 874 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 1: potential for peer to peer transmissions. So that was something 875 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:37,080 Speaker 1: very important in this whole napster business. Um I'm I'm, 876 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 1: I'm napstered out or now that's about all I got. 877 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 1: All right, excellent, So really we got to thank our 878 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,600 Speaker 1: listener for sending that in. I apologize I don't have 879 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,880 Speaker 1: your name in front of me. My computer gave me 880 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: a little bit of a hiccup just before I came 881 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,239 Speaker 1: in here, but I wanted to thank you so much 882 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 1: for that. That suggestions very interesting discussion. I think hopefully 883 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,680 Speaker 1: you guys thought so too, And if you have any 884 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,000 Speaker 1: topics that you think we should tackle in the future 885 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,600 Speaker 1: episode of tech Stuff, I highly recommend you get in 886 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,080 Speaker 1: touch with us. Let us know. We really value that 887 00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: input because it helps us shape the show so that 888 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,719 Speaker 1: you guys enjoy it even more. Let us know, send 889 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 1: us an email our addresses tech stuff at Discovery dot com, 890 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,840 Speaker 1: or drop us a line on Facebook or Twitter or 891 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 1: handle at both those locations. Is tech Stuff, hs W 892 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,040 Speaker 1: and Lauren and I will talk to you again really 893 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 1: soon for more on this and thousands of other topics. 894 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:34,440 Speaker 1: Does it has stuff works dot Com