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Speaker 1: Hello, Hey, it's a weird hello Hello, Hello. You just

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Speaker 1: feeling ready for a ghost season? I guess always ready

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Speaker 1: for spooky season. I was thinking the other day that

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Speaker 1: Halloween should just become the new like American esthetic, like

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Speaker 1: instead of the stars and stripes everywhere all the time,

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Speaker 1: to like, you know when you think of America and

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Speaker 1: that's the image you get. I'm like, we're the Halloween country.

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Speaker 1: You know, We're we do Halloween Baby, Halloween Central. We

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Speaker 1: got the spirit costume stores, we got the decorations. I mean,

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Speaker 1: other countries are dabbling in it, but it's our thing

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Speaker 1: and they know it's our thing. And I just say,

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Speaker 1: let's take that whole vibe and just identify by it.

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Speaker 1: Why not. Why not We're scary, We're spooky. True, many

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Speaker 1: many places would agree. We got we got a lot

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Speaker 1: of ghosts and skeletons in our collective closet, So I

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Speaker 1: think that'd be cool. At the same time, I know

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Speaker 1: some people don't aren't down with this, but to me,

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Speaker 1: part of me was like, yes, please, I would love

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Speaker 1: just the whole world's aesthetic to shift to ghosts and

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Speaker 1: graveyards and spiders and bats, pumpkins. You know what, there's

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Speaker 1: I get less excited about it when the actual day

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Speaker 1: rolls up. Same with Christmas. I love Christmas music, I

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Speaker 1: love Christmas carols. I don't really love pop Christmas music

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Speaker 1: as much, But when you start playing it at the

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Speaker 1: beginning of November, I'm like, I'm over it by mid November,

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Speaker 1: and that's when then we still got a long way

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Speaker 1: to go before Christmas. So let's let's just temper it

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Speaker 1: a little bit, make it, keep it special, keep it

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, what's the word? Keep it concentrated, and

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Speaker 1: then we gotta keep it concentrated. Stay tuned for our

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Speaker 1: offspring Halloween album. Diana will be produce me. So don't

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Speaker 1: stay tuned, because you will die before I make it.

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Speaker 1: I'm so what will stay on the bucket list on

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Speaker 1: Cross Stop. Very excited to bring you this show today,

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Speaker 1: going to bring you back to your childhood. I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you have any contact with children at all, whether

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Speaker 1: your parents or your aunt or uncle, or you're just

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Speaker 1: your friends have kids now, and that's like kind of

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Speaker 1: our situation. Multiple nieces and nephews, many many friends kids,

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Speaker 1: or maybe you're one of those people who was a

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Speaker 1: child once. If you know anything about kids, or wherever

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Speaker 1: one yourself. You probably know about a little book called

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Speaker 1: good Night Moon. Well, I just got sleepy just when

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Speaker 1: you said it. I just felt like I was cozied

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Speaker 1: up into my race car sheets. You're saying good night

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Speaker 1: to your bolmush uh. Yeah, this is like a ubiquitous

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Speaker 1: gift at baby showers. In fact, my friend Sammy, Hi, Sammy,

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Speaker 1: I know she's listening. She listens to every episo though

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Speaker 1: she's the best lover so much. And for her baby shower,

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Speaker 1: for her oldest, she got six copies of Goodnight Moon,

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Speaker 1: and every time she oh, okay, I guess I got

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Speaker 1: some returning to do. But I remember being like, okay,

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Speaker 1: just mental note, never ever give a copy of good

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Speaker 1: Night Moon to anyone, because they're gonna get somebody else.

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Speaker 1: Somebody's going to give it to them, or they already

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Speaker 1: have three from their last kid. You're gonna singlehandedly plummet

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Speaker 1: good Night because everyone's gonna think so well, I thought

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Speaker 1: someone else would get it. They're like for some reason.

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Speaker 1: And the year two, nobody bought the book good Night

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Speaker 1: I get every kid. The phantom told Booth, it's an

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Speaker 1: amazing book. Everyone I've ever given it to, Well, so

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Speaker 1: far their kids are not old enough to tell me

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Speaker 1: how they like it, but the parents have really enjoyed

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Speaker 1: reading to them as children. So anyway, just throwing that

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Speaker 1: out there as an alternative. I gotta throw out there

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Speaker 1: real quick that we talked about Sammy. We've got to

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Speaker 1: say our friend. That's true. It is well, specifically because

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Speaker 1: one time Sammy was over and I was on the

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Speaker 1: phone with someone else and I said into the phone, oh,

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Speaker 1: Diana's friend Sady is here, and I'll never forget it.

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Speaker 1: As soon as I got off the phone, Sammy was like,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean, Diana's friend got your friend to Eli,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, of course you wanted. I just

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Speaker 1: you know, you guys knew each other first and you

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Speaker 1: work together, and I just I'll never forget that moment.

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Speaker 1: And I will always think of Sammy to our friend,

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Speaker 1: our dear friend, Sammy. We also like to say her

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Speaker 1: name like Dean from Sammy Summer, but she doesn't even

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Speaker 1: watch that show, but she always thought it was funny. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: love Sammy. She's the best. And if you know where

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Speaker 1: you agree, um, but yeah, she's the one. I think

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Speaker 1: it was pretty much her baby shower that made me

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Speaker 1: be like, that's a basic gift, don't give that gift.

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Speaker 1: But it turns out that the author of good Night

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Speaker 1: Moon was anything but basic. And I really want to

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Speaker 1: talk about Margaret wise Brown, the author of good Night Moon,

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Speaker 1: and her ten year lesbian relationship with a poet named

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Speaker 1: Michael Strange. I'm excited to hear it. Do with hey

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Speaker 1: their French Come listen well, Elia and Diana got some

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Speaker 1: stories to tell. There's no matchmaking, a romantic tips. It's

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Speaker 1: just about ridiculous relationships, a lover. It might be any

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Speaker 1: type of person at all, and abstract cons at a

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Speaker 1: concrete wall. But if there's a story where the second

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Speaker 1: glance ridiculous rolls a production of iHeart Radio. Margaret wise

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Speaker 1: Brown was born in She had very wealthy parents, but

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Speaker 1: they did not get along at all. Most of the

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Speaker 1: time we spent either squabbling and like slamming doors and

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Speaker 1: yelling at each other, or they spent as much time

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Speaker 1: as far apart from each other as they could get

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Speaker 1: so like I think her dad went to India for

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Speaker 1: a while, like very far away. Another province of the

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Speaker 1: wealthy is that like when you're having a spat, it's

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Speaker 1: not like I'm going into the bedroom. It's I'm going

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Speaker 1: across the globe. I need a minute. A few blocks

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Speaker 1: is not enough space. Yeah. So anyway, inevitably they got

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Speaker 1: divorced when Margaret was still pretty young, probably for the best. Consequently,

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Speaker 1: she spent a lot of time at boarding schools um

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Speaker 1: which she did well in school, but she was actually

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Speaker 1: more than athlete. She's a very athletic young lady. She

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Speaker 1: went to Hollands College which is now Hollands University, and

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Speaker 1: she basically formed the equestrian team there and it's still

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Speaker 1: like a point of pride to this day. They brought

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Speaker 1: the horses. I think basically there was some money involved.

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Speaker 1: For sure, some money was involved. She wasn't just like

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Speaker 1: I have passion. Yeah, Like that's not enough. People at

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Speaker 1: Hollins College are like, look at our fleet of horses.

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Speaker 1: Is it a fleet of horses? I doubt it. Look

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Speaker 1: at our murder of horses. So anyway, while she's at

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Speaker 1: Hollands University, she got her English degree and she started

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Speaker 1: teaching in two and that took her to the bank

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Speaker 1: Street Experimental School in Brooklyn. Now Bank Street is a

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Speaker 1: school that develops and teaches methods of teaching. So it's

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Speaker 1: a teachers. It's a teaching teacher school. Okay, they teach

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Speaker 1: teachers how to teach children. There are children at this school.

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Speaker 1: There's also a primary school there and they have children

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Speaker 1: enrolled in it. And they try out these new methods

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Speaker 1: on the kids and then they're like, did you learn

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Speaker 1: that better? Like they ask them questions and they kind

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Speaker 1: of do laboratories with these kids and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: So they are experimenting on children in laboratories at Banks

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Speaker 1: Treating Experimental School. Please do not send me a letter

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Speaker 1: Banks Treating Experimental School. I think they sound really cool actually,

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Speaker 1: kind of like a monastory thing maybe sort of thing

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Speaker 1: where they're just trying out different different new ideas and

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Speaker 1: seeing if they it lends itself to learning a little

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Speaker 1: bit better. It was. It was a good experiments on

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Speaker 1: children in laboratories situations, one of the good ones. No, no, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's no like weird helmets or needles. They weren't giving

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Speaker 1: them superpowers, you know, and then trying to use them

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Speaker 1: as weapons and a shaved heads. Yeah. So, up until

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Speaker 1: this point, children's literature had always been just fairy tales

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Speaker 1: and fables. You know, you get your three bears, you

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Speaker 1: got your your magic beans, you got your three blind mice,

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Speaker 1: kids turning into gingerbread, houses in the woods, the scorpion

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Speaker 1: on the toad, or whatever. Classic learning stuff, learning stuff,

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Speaker 1: little animals, learning stuff, teaching lessons. There weren't really children's

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Speaker 1: books in the way that we think of them today,

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Speaker 1: but bank Street was emphasizing what they called the here

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Speaker 1: and now philosophy, and this basically said that kids want

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Speaker 1: and need to connect to the real world around them,

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Speaker 1: Like they like stories about trolls and dragons and gingerbread

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Speaker 1: and fairies and you know, all that kind of garbage,

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Speaker 1: which is actually what I prefer to read still, but um,

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Speaker 1: they also wanted to hear about bugs and trucks and

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Speaker 1: animals and good night rituals, things like that, things they

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Speaker 1: were experiencing in their day to day lives. So Margaret

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Speaker 1: conducted these laboratories where she would experiment on children and encourage. Now,

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Speaker 1: she would encourage kids to tell her stories, and then

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Speaker 1: she would kind of hear what they observed and what

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Speaker 1: they were interested in. And then she would also invite

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Speaker 1: illustrators into the classroom to paint in front of the

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Speaker 1: kids and learned what they like in pictures too. Then

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Speaker 1: she started writing kids books. Her first book was When

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Speaker 1: the Wind Blew In, and that landed her a job

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Speaker 1: as an editor at the W. R. Scott Publishing House.

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Speaker 1: When she was there, she collaborated with her hero Gertrude

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Speaker 1: Stein on a children's book, and she wrote hundreds of

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Speaker 1: stories of her own. She had so many stories in

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Speaker 1: her that she had to publish under several different pen

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Speaker 1: names just to keep from flooding. The mark it with

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Speaker 1: the name Margaret wise Brown and they're like, all we

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Speaker 1: got is Margaret wise Brown titles. There's no room on

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Speaker 1: the shelves for we. We just look like a Margaret

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Speaker 1: wise Brown store in here. And they're like, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: well what if it's Margaret flies down? Like, oh I

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Speaker 1: got room for that. I got room for in the

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Speaker 1: F section. Yeah. She probably had more clever pseudonyms than that.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure no, she did. Um she was. She worked

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Speaker 1: with like four different publishing houses as well, so she's

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Speaker 1: like really dominating this market. She's four different names, four

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Speaker 1: different publishing houses. She is handling her business. She has

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Speaker 1: several authors in one. She's like, she's like J. K.

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Speaker 1: Rowling and uh uh hang on, I know authors and

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Speaker 1: the look you're giving me like, come on, you can

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Speaker 1: do it. You can do it. J. K Rowling and

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Speaker 1: um J. K Rowling and uh Philip Pullman and sure

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Speaker 1: reads the children's book and it is they teach it

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Speaker 1: in elementary schools in England. Go read his Dark Materials

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Speaker 1: Its book trilogy, the second book after Book of Dust

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Speaker 1: just came out, by the way, I know I have

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Speaker 1: to finish Book of Dust. Um, I have to finish

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Speaker 1: my third reread of his Dark Materials from all right,

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Speaker 1: so she's like four authors insert names here. She had

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Speaker 1: been engaged before just to get into the romance party.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course I forgot what this show was.

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Speaker 1: I know, right, It's like all of a sudden, my

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Speaker 1: time I tol him was literature. No, she had been

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Speaker 1: engaged before to this nice society boy, a quiet young

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Speaker 1: man from Virginia. But apparently she overheard her father and

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend laughing about how to control her after they

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Speaker 1: would get married, so she dumped that loser quick. Um.

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Speaker 1: She did data round a little bit. She dated the

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Speaker 1: Prince of Spain named Juan Carlos. Pretty pretty hot. I

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Speaker 1: bet Prince of Spain, I'm dumping you and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go date the Prince of Spain. If you're going

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Speaker 1: with a quiet young man from Virginia wants to control

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Speaker 1: you to the Prince of Spain, that's a pretty good

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Speaker 1: glow up. Unless the Prince of Spain also wants to

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Speaker 1: control you. Well, he's a prince. He wants to control everybody, right,

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Speaker 1: is he reluctant prince? Excited prince? Okay, there are both.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he's not. You could say there were two princes

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Speaker 1: and had a princely racket, but this one had a

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Speaker 1: big seal up on his jacket. All right, go ahead, now,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to punch you so hard. She also dated

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Speaker 1: a guy named Preston Shower, and also a lawyer named

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Speaker 1: William Gaston. It's probably Gaston, but I'm going to say

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Speaker 1: that we should stick with Gaston because that's he's I heard.

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Speaker 1: That was his law commercial was nobody fights like Gaston?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, nobody dowses lights like Gaston. Obviously nobody in

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Speaker 1: a wrestling match. Nobody fights like gut On. Probably wasn't

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Speaker 1: as common for lawyers, but back then it was an

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Speaker 1: acceptable tactic in the court of law. You should change

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Speaker 1: it to no one prosecutes harmless crackpots. Like she was

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Speaker 1: accounted a beautiful woman. She was blonde with green eyes,

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Speaker 1: and she had a lovely smile. And like I said,

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Speaker 1: she's very athletics, so she had a nice figure. She's

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Speaker 1: strong and energetic. She loved dogs. She liked to hike, hunt, camp, boat, swim, ski.

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Speaker 1: Whatever you want to do, she is down to do it.

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Speaker 1: It's a total firecracker, Margaret. She sounds like a lot

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Speaker 1: to keep up with. I know, right, she's she's got energy, Margaret,

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Speaker 1: Can we have a day off? No? Yeah, I'm okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, where are we Going's get after it. So

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Speaker 1: she's dating around, but she hasn't gotten anywhere close to

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Speaker 1: marriage again since that guy back home that was laughing

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Speaker 1: with her dad. So one day she's hanging out with

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Speaker 1: her long time sometimes lover, William Gueston, who probably had

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Speaker 1: his boots in her book or something, one assumes. And

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Speaker 1: apparently the New York Times described him as quote a

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Speaker 1: hopeless alcoholic and cereal philanderer. And that's like the only

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Speaker 1: thing I could find written about him, which is like

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Speaker 1: kind of a sad legacy. Um. But he he went

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Speaker 1: with some interesting ladies, including Margaret. Yeah, I remember when

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Speaker 1: he was dating those three blonde sisters, triplets. They were

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Speaker 1: they were falling over him all the time. They were

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Speaker 1: they were ready to fight. He was jacked for for

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Speaker 1: an alcoholic we three dozen eggs, five dozen eggs, wasn't it.

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Speaker 1: I think by the time, by by this point in

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Speaker 1: his life he was eating. By the time he was grown,

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Speaker 1: he ate five dozen eggs, five dozen eggs roughly the barge. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's big. So she's hanging out with William Gaston and

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Speaker 1: he introduces Margaret to one of his others sometimes lovers.

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Speaker 1: Poet and playwright Michael Strange. Michael Strange was born Blanche

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Speaker 1: ull Ris and she got married to a guy named

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Speaker 1: Leonard thomas In and they had two kids, and that

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Speaker 1: was all by the time that she was twenty years old. Um.

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Speaker 1: But she was an early suffragette. She bobbed her hair

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Speaker 1: before most women did, and she went marching with the

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Speaker 1: other suffragettes. In her autobiography, she wrote, quote, looking back

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Speaker 1: on my adolescence, my preoccupation with boys seems excessive. And

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Speaker 1: yet there had always existed the invariable dictum that the

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Speaker 1: only career for women was marriage, and that it was

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Speaker 1: natural for her to think about it continually, and till

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Speaker 1: she achieved it, it did not seem important for her

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Speaker 1: to know about any other thing than how to try

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Speaker 1: to draw to her side a young gentleman with money

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Speaker 1: that says it all about like women's lives for a

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Speaker 1: long time, many many decades. So yeah, so she's like,

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Speaker 1: no wonder, I was so wrapped up in all that ship.

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Speaker 1: But now, yeah, now I'm a grown lady and I

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Speaker 1: see the world a little differently. Um. And she kind

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Speaker 1: of got bit by like a literary bug, and she

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Speaker 1: started writing in nineteen fourteen. She published some of her

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Speaker 1: poetry in nineteen sixteen, and that meant she started hanging

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Speaker 1: out with artists and rabble rousers yea. And that caused

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Speaker 1: some rifts with her husband, Leonard, and so they divorced

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Speaker 1: in nineteen nineteen. Man, you know, fellas, if your wife

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Speaker 1: starts hanging out with artists, you know it's over. I

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Speaker 1: can tell you right now. That's not a crowd that's

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Speaker 1: kind of support your now. Um, probably just much better

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Speaker 1: people who were like you should experience joy in your life.

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Speaker 1: Oh really, you can do that. Despicable behavior. He's like,

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Speaker 1: spending all your time with these hooligandests next thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna want to be experiencing joy in your life.

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Speaker 1: I won't have it. Not my wife this house. Well,

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Speaker 1: that might have been it. But maybe part of his

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Speaker 1: problems that she was sort of having a little bit

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Speaker 1: of an affair. Oh yeah, well that might have been

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Speaker 1: might have upset him more than the artists. I know, right,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I love this official story or cover stories.

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Speaker 1: He didn't like all these artists, and he was like, no,

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Speaker 1: I just didn't like the sucking. Another man. Uh and

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Speaker 1: the other man, by the way, was movie star John Barrymore, unartist.

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Speaker 1: There you go, another one of them, John Barrymore start

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Speaker 1: of stage and screen. That's right, ridiculous. Romantics might remember

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Speaker 1: him as the brash young newspaper illustrator who proposed to

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Speaker 1: Evelyn Nesbit in a episode sixteen, John Barrymore is getting

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Speaker 1: around well, John Barrymore got all the ways chained back

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Speaker 1: for more. Well by nineteen sixteen. Uh, he's well over Evelyn,

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Speaker 1: I guess h And he's hot and heavy with Blanche

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Speaker 1: and she adapts a couple of plays for him to

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Speaker 1: star in. He does his silent film turn as Hamlet

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Speaker 1: that made him famous, they got married. He provided illustrations

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Speaker 1: for her book Resurrecting Life, which was some erotic poetry

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Speaker 1: that she wrote about her affair with John, and she

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Speaker 1: released it under her pen name Michael Strange. And this

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Speaker 1: is because her publisher was like, you're a society lady, like,

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Speaker 1: maybe you don't want your erotic poetry tied to your

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Speaker 1: real name, Blanche, so that people are like walking around

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Speaker 1: no one that you like to do it or something? Right? Right?

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Speaker 1: What WHOA? We can't have people thinking that women like

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Speaker 1: sex out there. So she chose the name Michael Strange.

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Speaker 1: But actually her book got pretty popular, so she started

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Speaker 1: going by Michael Strange all the time in everyday life.

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Speaker 1: So that pen name didn't work out. She just erased

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Speaker 1: her old name entirely. And I thought it would be

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Speaker 1: fun to hear one of her poems, so you kind

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Speaker 1: of have a little picture in your mind of the

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Speaker 1: type of woman who would write this poem. So we

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Speaker 1: should head hang down the poetry corner, and here a

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Speaker 1: song by Michael Strange which was published for what have

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Speaker 1: you sought? My Love? Along those flashing wastes of passion

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Speaker 1: who moved so wearily as the Dawn's unwilling step overstamped

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Speaker 1: in ruins of unlimited woe. Oh, what crucifix you tortured

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Speaker 1: into nailing yourself against that your arms are become so

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Speaker 1: attenuate as those stark, supplicating limbs of nightmare. I wonder

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Speaker 1: have you assaulted life in darkness and whispering I need

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Speaker 1: you so? Oh? Let me. Yet, when the spear entering

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Speaker 1: nailing you into frantic submission, you crying out from the

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Speaker 1: very center nerve of such ecstasy, I have fear, since

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Speaker 1: you then selling into bondage what you might surmise only,

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Speaker 1: and for the witchery of moments, since you denying of

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Speaker 1: yourself more than you could have known before, self betrayal,

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Speaker 1: and all in order to induce those scarlet wings of

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Speaker 1: appalling lips to glisten close across your mouth. Yet, when

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00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:41,440
Speaker 1: this tease of pleasure titilating, curious truth stained exclamations out

336
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Speaker 1: of you, and their sense languishing mateless unanswered along the air, Ah,

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00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 1: then you turning to regard the gracious youth of your

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Speaker 1: sleeping love alongside of your waking, ageless heart. All right, Look,

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00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 1: I mean everyone's a critic, um, but that includes me

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00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 1: including me. That is like I got some unlimited woe

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00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 1: from that, because what did she have a thesaurus in

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Speaker 1: her hand when she was right? It's very wordy, it's

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Speaker 1: very extremely big words, a lot of metaphors. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm listening to a Decembrist song. That's a good,

345
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,880
Speaker 1: very apt uh comparison. Yeah. I was kind of like,

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00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: you know, it seems more like her vocabulary mattered more

347
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 1: than like what she was actually trying to convey to you,

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Speaker 1: Like you're going, you're kind of like torturing all these

349
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Speaker 1: like cool words like attenuate and all this kind of stuff,

350
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Speaker 1: And I'm like, but you haven't really told me anything.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure there's definitely some in there. I was like,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of sexy. I could feel like if you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: frantic submission crying out, like you know, you might be like,

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Speaker 1: oh my goodness, I'm getting a little shivery inside. But like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it also feels so involved that it's

356
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Speaker 1: like I don't know, you can't you have to really

357
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Speaker 1: look for mood in it, and like that sort of

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00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 1: poetry's job to be spare and give you something big

359
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Speaker 1: with very little. But anyway, I mean, maybe you're right,

360
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,120
Speaker 1: and it's just an era thing like the twenties. People

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Speaker 1: are like, why, yes, I am crying out from the

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Speaker 1: very center nerve of such ecstasy. And I do have

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Speaker 1: fear since you're selling them into bondage what you might

364
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: surmise only and from the witchery above that. But you

365
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Right? Maybe they maybe that was

366
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 1: just casual language to them. How are you today? Ah,

367
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: the witchery of moments. In either case, her relationship with

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00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: John was tumultuous, partly because of her own temper and

369
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Speaker 1: her moodiness, and partly because of course, John Barrymore's noted alcoholism.

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Speaker 1: A review of her autobiography from The New York Times

371
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Speaker 1: in NTY wrote that they violently quarreled and were violently reconciled,

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Speaker 1: and that they raced around Europe and America at a

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Speaker 1: thrill pace, that they wore clothes as much alike as possible,

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Speaker 1: and quote passionately threatening suicide. So they were both big

375
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Speaker 1: mood people. They had a lot of feeling and they

376
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Speaker 1: wanted to share it with everyone. One in his sixteen

377
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Speaker 1: foot vicinity was going to get a piece of that.

378
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,199
Speaker 1: It's like to divas it's like trying to think of

379
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Speaker 1: two divas. But honestly, I'm just like, it's not even

380
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: Beyonce and jay Z. It's it's like two Beyonces. Like yeah,

381
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: but that makes Beyonce sound kind of crazy and very

382
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Speaker 1: normal acting person. It's like, um, it's like to Jared Lettos, yes,

383
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: there it is very just a lot a couple of

384
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: Buff's just running around. O. Man, it's like Jared Letto

385
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: and Shila Buff touring America and Europe together. I'm you

386
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to Australia. I'm exhausted just thinking

387
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: about it. Michael and John had one daughter together, Diana Barrymore,

388
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Speaker 1: who would also go on to become an actress. Michael

389
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 1: wrote a play called Claire Duluone which reunited John with

390
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: his sister Ethel on stage, and so people were excited

391
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: about it, but it was super panned by critics, so

392
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: much so that it prompted John to send the letters

393
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: to reviewers defending Michael's talent, which I'm like, good, if

394
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: the actor is telling the reviewer, no, it's actually they're

395
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: actually a good writer, You're just dumb, then um, nobody

396
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: looks good. She and John divorced in again probably the

397
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: best though they did stay friendly throughout the rest of

398
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,239
Speaker 1: their lives, and she started acting on stage, and then

399
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: she married for a third time, a lawyer named Harrison

400
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 1: Tweed in ninety nine. Well, you've got to be a lawyer.

401
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: If you had a name like if your Harrison Tweed,

402
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: you either got to be a lawyer or a professor,

403
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 1: right right, Although specifically, although Harrison Tweed made me think

404
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: of like a grocery store, because Harris Teter. That's probably why. Okay,

405
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,880
Speaker 1: that's why Harris Teeter like going down to the Harrison Tweed. Yeah,

406
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: pick up some few things from Harrison Tweet. She hosted

407
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 1: a poetry and music program on the radio that got

408
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: really popular. Oh yeah, sure, people love the radio. What else?

409
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: And she released her autobiography in and the New York

410
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 1: Times review from nineteen forty says that it's worth reading

411
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: even though quote it's writing is pretentious and involved more

412
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: diligent and effort than objectively successful. It's author's mind is

413
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: apparently allergic to simplicity, which diving is a spot on

414
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: review that sounds just like that poem exactly know, I

415
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: mean more diligent in effort than objectively successful. Yeah, like

416
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 1: I could tell you worked really hard on getting all

417
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: those words into that poem, right, but sometimes simple conveys more,

418
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 1: and that's where the hardship of poetry is. Yeah, I

419
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: don't know that. I don't remember who the quote. I

420
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: took poetry for a little while when I was minoring

421
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: in English, and I don't remember who said it. But

422
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: the quote is prose is words in their best order,

423
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: and poetry is the best words in the best order. Anyway,

424
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: that's my poetry lesson for the day. Thorou said simplify, simplify.

425
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: Of course we always ask why didn't he just say

426
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: simplify it? Anyway. Similar complaints were made about her playwriting style,

427
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: So this is what John's fighting against sending these letters.

428
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: He's like, no, I promise you the attenuate is the

429
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: right word there. So it's in nineteen forty that Margaret

430
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: and Michael meet, and it's of course through William Gaston Um.

431
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: In between one of his many dozens of eggs, he

432
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: stopped to introduce them. And Michael is twenty years older

433
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: than Margaret, and she's an alluring woman. She's got strong

434
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 1: features and dark, shining hair. She's a tabloid fixture, and

435
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: she was known for being an outspoken feminist. The New

436
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: York Post says Margaret was smitten, but apparently it started

437
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: out as more of a mentoring relationship. And so I

438
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: like to think that they're all, you know, hanging out

439
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: at William's apartment, having you know, highballs. It's a nice

440
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: little party. Yeah, I have a little party. And they're

441
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 1: like passionately arguing about a novel or play or something.

442
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: They're like lame as a rob was Victor Hugo's seminole books,

443
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: Like no, it was Hunchback because they never read Hunchback

444
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 1: of Notre Dom. If you think that I saw the cartoon,

445
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: oh well never mind. Oh those cartoons are great. Helped

446
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: me have a much better legacy than I left in

447
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: The New York Times anyway. So that so they're like

448
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: hanging out right arguing, and since we're in speculation station,

449
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: I imagine that Margaret just in a little aside to Michael,

450
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: is like, oh, yes, so yeah, I've published quite a

451
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: few children's books, but I'd really love to write a

452
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: novel one day. And Michael is like, oh, well, maybe

453
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: I can give you a few pointers. Why don't we

454
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: go somewhere quieter and chat and Margaret like, oh shit,

455
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: it's damn. Margaret was thirsty. That's the scene I would

456
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: set in the movie I'm making about Margaret Wise Brown

457
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: and right. However, it happened. They did start seeing each

458
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: other in n and they wrote each other letters, which

459
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: Michael insisted on writing in code. Margaret was Bunny or

460
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: Bunn and Michael was Rabbit. But surprisingly, it doesn't seem

461
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: like they really tried to hide the nature of their relationship.

462
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: For most people, even though this was a time where,

463
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: and this is true, a lesbian relationship was enough of

464
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: a reason to put a woman in an insane asylum,

465
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: they were just like, oh, you're attracted to women and

466
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: you're a woman, Well call up the wagons and we're

467
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: going to the funny farm. That's outrageous. How could anyone

468
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: be attracted to a woman. And they're like, what about you, sir,

469
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: And he's like, well, I mean, yeah, I'm attracted to women.

470
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: Don't take me to the phone. Because he almost let

471
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: it slip that he was gay, and that's you know,

472
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: this port this this guy is living a lie. He's

473
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: having a hard time and he's taking it out on society,

474
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: you know, hurt people, hurt people. Oh damn, that's good.

475
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: You should put that on a T shirt. You should

476
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: put that on a T shirt, except it would just

477
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: looked like it was just a command hurt people, hurt people.

478
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: You kind of need for one. No, no, I want

479
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: that T shirt now, I want it more. We'll but

480
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: that'll be one of the ridiculous romance T shirts we

481
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: sell when they let us have merch hurt people, hurt

482
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: people with ridiculous romance. I think I hear will be like,

483
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: I'm how about not being able to do that one hr.

484
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: A lot of letters coming in. So they're dating, and

485
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: when Harrison Tweed discovered the affair Michael divorced him, she

486
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, you caught me. Bye bye. I'm sure.

487
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: He was like, well you could just stop. And She's

488
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: like come back to me, you know, but your Harrison

489
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: tweet like give me something, and maybe I will, But

490
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: I got nothing from you, buddy. I married you for

491
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: stability only, and I've had enough of that. Thank you

492
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: so much. So she moved in with Margaret in ninety two.

493
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: And before we find out more about the two of them,

494
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: to get off, let's hear a few words from our sponsors.

495
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: That sounds good to me. Welcome back to the show.

496
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: So we've heard a little bit about Margaret's personality already.

497
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: You know, she liked hunt, she like running around with

498
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: her dogs. She's outdoors and athletic. Doesn't sound like Michael

499
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: Strange to me so far. You know, Michael Strange doesn't

500
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: seem to be a person who likes to go hiking

501
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: and owned and so you know, they just had to me,

502
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: just had this literature bond because they seem to be

503
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: very different people, which is a strong bond. Which is

504
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 1: a strong bond. It's very true. The glue that holds

505
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: society together. That's that was said by me. Those were

506
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: some words. They they're holding society there, they're doing work.

507
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: I think it becomes more clear that their personalities are

508
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: very different when you find out that Margaret is a

509
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: kind of a deeply weird person. She was very very whimsical.

510
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: She would often talk about how she felt like she

511
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: was still a child and she was worried that she

512
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: was too immature. But her friends really loved how whimsical

513
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: she was. They really delighted on all her little quirks.

514
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: She did stuff like form the bird Brain Society. I'm

515
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: already into it where any one of the members could

516
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: decide that a random day was Christmas and all the

517
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: other members would have to gather to sell. Great okay,

518
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: I mean it sounds fun. It sounds whimsical for sure.

519
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: Kind of goes back to I was saying Christmas. You

520
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: want to keep that Christmas so it's special. But hey,

521
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: you know what, they're having a good time. We all

522
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: get the family together. If you need a reason, fine,

523
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: it's Christmas. And you know they're like, what you're having

524
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: Christmas in September? That's outrageous. And they're like, hello, we're

525
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: bird brains. Kind of the whole thing bird brains. Baby. Oh,

526
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: I don't like them. I know, I don't. I don't

527
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: know that they talked like that, But it feels like

528
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: it's funny that it's such a little weird, cute thing

529
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: like that, because society must have been just so like,

530
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: kind of stuffy about what you were allowed to do. Okay,

531
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: and think you know that even something little like that,

532
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,239
Speaker 1: being like it's Christmas in July was like people are like,

533
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: whoa Christmas on a lie? What a weirdo? All I'm

534
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: off to the asylum. Throw them in with the lesbians.

535
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: What a fun party they would have, though, Oh my god,

536
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: Christmas lesbian party? Can I go? Please? If anyone out

537
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: there is going to have a Christmas lesbian party or

538
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: lesbian Christmas party, if those are two different things, I

539
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: don't know, Ben does some of my lesbian friends. Christmas

540
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: party isn't it's going to say. If anyone has, it

541
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: would be you good food, fantastic party. Sweet angels, not

542
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: sweet angels. Those girls were a mess, but they threw

543
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: a damn good party. Well that's why it was a

544
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: good party. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, so she's got the

545
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: birdbrain society. She spent her first royalty check from her

546
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: books buying a street vendor's entire flower carts so she

547
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: could fill up her house with flowers. She and Michael

548
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: lived together in a place that she called Cobble Court.

549
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: Margaret found this house while walking around New York. It

550
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: was smack in the middle of the skyscrapers of Upper

551
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: East Side and it was this tiny farmhouse and she

552
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: rented it right away because of course that would seem

553
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: like magical, weird like elfin thing to Yeah, definitely, it's

554
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: something a child would do, especially like, Oh, a rundown

555
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: house that nobody wants. I'll take it. Let's do it.

556
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: It's perfect. She rented it right away, and it had

557
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: no insulation or electricity, but she loved his quirks, an

558
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: unsung charm. She wrote in nine quote, it was a

559
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: little house in the middle of a big city, and

560
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: nobody knew it was there. It had been there for

561
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: years and years, for over a hundred years, forgotten, and

562
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: there it stood, in a hidden garden in the middle

563
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: of a big block of skyscrapers. So let that be

564
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 1: a listen to you everyone, if you're looking to move

565
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: to New York City, just go to the opper east

566
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: Side and just wander around. You never know when you

567
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: might find an abandoned house in the middle of a

568
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: block that just no one's renting. Yet, you know, a

569
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: little fixer upper could be real cheap. Now, this is

570
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: one of the things that have changed a lot from

571
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: an intervening century um. But actually the house still exists

572
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: if anyone is like a person who likes to see

573
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: these landmarks. They did move it, though, because obviously epurast

574
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: side no place for an abandoned farmhouse. Somebody walked in

575
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: and was like, what the funk is this house doing? Here?

576
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: Could be a trillion dollar lot exactly one house on it.

577
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: I'm putting nine thousand condos here. Immediately, know how many

578
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: apartments I could put here? Yeah, so they moved it

579
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: to Chelsea, which where it still is. And I'm sure

580
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: somebody is mad right now that it's there too. So

581
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: yeah Chelsea. Oh, no, one's looking for real estate and

582
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: Chelsea anymore. Put it in Chelsea where all the weirdos are.

583
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: She also bought a house in Maine as a writing

584
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: retreat um. It had no electricity or running water, So

585
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,439
Speaker 1: I guess you just liked simple life. But you could

586
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: go to the well and get milk, butter and other

587
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: perishable goods by simply pulling the appropriate labeled rope and

588
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: it wouldn't pull it up from the well. Okay, so

589
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: she had placed it down there. She's storing it down

590
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: the well because there's At first, I'm thinking, you just

591
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: pulled his rope and magically there's some elves down there,

592
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: like milk. A cow real quick, and a pail of

593
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: milk just comes up. No, Okay, well that would have

594
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: been cooler. But that would have been cooler no, Instead,

595
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: it was like the box car children like. She stored

596
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: her milk underground to keep it from spoiling. Exactly. Yeah, okay,

597
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: see I read children's books. They read children's books. She

598
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: did have one room outfitted with mirrors everywhere, so you

599
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: could see the sea from any angle in the room.

600
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: The rest of us are all turning our heads like suckers.

601
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: She would hide bottles of wine in streams around her

602
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 1: properties so she could just pull it out and refresh

603
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: her guests when they were walking around, which is another thing.

604
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure she really just reveled in that. She's like,

605
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: oh you thirsty too, about didn't bring anything? Oh no,

606
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: well what's over here? I pull out and it's all

607
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: cold and delicious. As a practical joke, she would tie

608
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: cherries and lemons two trees to trick her city dwelling

609
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 1: friends into thinking she was some great green thumb, which

610
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: I love, Like, that's pretty good. The amount of time

611
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: that you would have to put into that prank, like

612
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: imagine her out there, like literally tying a bunch of

613
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: cherries to your tree is like so funny. To be fair,

614
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: I would take it a step further and tie something

615
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: that doesn't grow on trees, you know, I grow. I

616
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: would tie like watermelons the branches is something to be

617
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: like you want to fresh watermelon? I trained it to

618
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 1: grow here in this tree. Oh my God, is like

619
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: amazing with plants. He can I say? What can I say?

620
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: I lied? What can I say? Baked my way through

621
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: the whole thing. She called it the only house, which

622
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: I thought was cute. Another quirk of hers. When a

623
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: friend would ask for the time, she would reply, what

624
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: time would you like it to be? Which I think

625
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: is like cute in theory, but then like as a

626
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: like in person, you'd be like, Margaret, what time is it?

627
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: I got a train to catch? Literally what times? She

628
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: preferred to write with a quill pen, and even in

629
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: her late thirties, she was painting glow in the dark

630
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: stars over her bed in her New York apartment. So

631
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,919
Speaker 1: she was basically moody Michael Strange's manic Pixie dream Girl.

632
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: And that's definitely the movie I would make. But it

633
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 1: seems like Margaret and Michael kind of had a tumultuous

634
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: relationship going on between the two of them at the time.

635
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: Michael is a total darling of the art world and

636
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: Margaret is writing dozens of kids books every year. But

637
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: Michael was kind of dismissive of Margaret's career. She called

638
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: them baby books, which I mean baby sure, but you know,

639
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 1: you know what she meant. But you know how she

640
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: said it. Yeah, she wasn't like, Oh, how's your baby

641
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: book coming along? She was like, how's your baby book

642
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: coming along? Right? She was like, well, I write books

643
00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: and Margaret reads baby books. That's not fair. And Margaret

644
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: already had this kind of deep insecurity about her writing,

645
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: and she was still dreaming of breaking into the adult

646
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: market with a real novel, so that probably just made

647
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: her more insecure to kind of hear that coming from

648
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: her partner. In an interview, she said, I hope to

649
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: write something serious one day, as soon as I have

650
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 1: something to say. But I am stuck in my childhood,

651
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: and that raises the devil when one wants to move on.

652
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: I think it's a pity that she never wrote a

653
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: childlike book for grown ups, like it was so cool

654
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: to haven't like one of her noisy books, but for

655
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: grown ups, and like, remember how you used to look

656
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: at a city or at the country, or remember how

657
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,959
Speaker 1: you used to notice this and now you don't because

658
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: you're an adult and you have shipped going on. But

659
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: maybe you should should remember that quality of childhood or whatever.

660
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just feel like we would even

661
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: if she had written it at the time, I feel

662
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: like we'd be reading it today like this lady was

663
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: way ahead of her time, especially with as many people

664
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: that are like having trouble with adult ing and stuff

665
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 1: like I feel like, I don't know, wonder do you mean, yes,

666
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: but not winning pay bills. Look, I'll worry about the

667
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: bills when my childhood wonderment fades away. Okay, I'll let

668
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: the power company know. But yeah, I don't know. I

669
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: just I think that would kind of resonate a lot

670
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: if she had tried to do something like that instead

671
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: of thinking her writing was only for children, or that

672
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: there was a certain type of writing that it was

673
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: only for adults, you know what I mean. Yeah, she

674
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: could have been writing stories for kind of kids, but

675
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: adults could enjoy it too, Like a boy wizard, you know,

676
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: goes to school and you know, sort of as the

677
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: books come out each year, like she can kind of

678
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: age them up with the audience. I don't know, it

679
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: seems like a good idea. If anybody out there wants

680
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: to use it, go for it. But yeah, apparently she

681
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: did try to write a book about like a neurotic

682
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: story about her and Michael going to the zoo together,

683
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: and what came out was like a story about a

684
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,760
Speaker 1: dog in a security guard. So like she would even

685
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: try and she couldn't help but write it now in

686
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: this really childlike way or whatever. So I'm like, I

687
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe she embarrassed herself, like sometimes you can't

688
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: it's hard to write like a sex scene and stuff

689
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: like you can embarrass yourself. And I wonder if she's like,

690
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: I just can't do that, like it's too much. She

691
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: one day she was like, I'm doing it. I'm writing

692
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: a porn. Somebody comes back and is like, I read

693
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,479
Speaker 1: your porn. This is called if you give a mouse

694
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: a cookie, and I'm not really seeing the erotic nature

695
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: of it, not turned on at all. Or maybe she

696
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: was just reading Michael's poetry and she's like, I I

697
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: can't write about a glistening lips whatever you're you're hogging

698
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: the thesaurus. She's like, there's no way that I would

699
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: ever write something like those scarlet wings of appalling lips,

700
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: like Margaret would be like, that's not me at all,

701
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 1: but she thinks that's what she has to write, like right,

702
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: maybe maybe, or Michael's telling her and this is what

703
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: you have to write, like, I don't know. At any rate,

704
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: it seemed like she had a little bit of hero

705
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: worship for Michael going on, so she kind of already

706
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: downplayed her own accomplishments in her own mind, and then

707
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: Michael was also downplaying them out loud. So Margaret's friends,

708
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: who knew them well were not fans of their relationship

709
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: because of this. They saw this kind of dynamic. They

710
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: were like, this isn't healthy. We don't like it. But

711
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,720
Speaker 1: Michael was kind of fellow ship on this one because

712
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 1: Margaret's career was actually going great. In two she released

713
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:39,439
Speaker 1: the book The Runaway Bunny, and that book jumps off

714
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: the shelves to this day, a little bunny hops right

715
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 1: into shopping carts all over the country. Little side notes,

716
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: speculation station. Do you think that there was a little

717
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: unconscious because she was called bunny by Michael, Like I

718
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 1: love to run away. I am the runaway Bunny, So

719
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: I don't know what the Runaway went Bunny is about

720
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, since I reread that one, haven't come

721
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 1: back and revisited over the run of My Bunny. But

722
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: then she started writing her Noisy Book series, which chronicled

723
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 1: the sounds of the city and the country, the winter

724
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: and the seaside, all that kind of stuff. It was

725
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: very auditory, descriptive book. She even wrote the Quiet Noisy

726
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: Book about the absence of sound, which is very interesting,

727
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: and it had stuff like it's the sound of a

728
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: man about to think, or a balloon about to pop

729
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: or something, and yeah, right, but I think it's cool

730
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: because it gives like it's kind of conveying a sense

731
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 1: of anticipation, a nothingness. There's actually something in that silence. Yeah,

732
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: that's so cool. She would be one of the first

733
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: children's writers to emphasize sensory experiences in her books, things

734
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: like sound, touch. She really wanted to capture what the

735
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: world felt like and sounded like from a child's perspective.

736
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: She once wrote to Michael, the first great wonder at

737
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 1: the world is big in me. That is the real

738
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: reason I write. Early on in her career, she would

739
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: basically give away her stories. You know, she's like, whatever

740
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: you take it. But Eventually she became a tough negotiator.

741
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: Um she refused to dumb down the language. She fought

742
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: to keep big words in her books. Smart kids don't

743
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: like to be talked down to. She once mailed one

744
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: of her editors a set of dueling pistols, and she

745
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: threatened to shoot another one with a bow and arrow,

746
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: which you know, she's she's athletics, so I'd be like,

747
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: she could actually do that and kill me easily. She

748
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: comes in, she's like, she kicks open the door and

749
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,479
Speaker 1: she's like, you're gonna say good night moon, goodnight noon.

750
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, so she's she's ready to fight about stuff.

751
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 1: But it isn't just for herself that she was ready

752
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: to fight until Margaret. Children's book illustrators were paid a

753
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: flat fee for their labors, but Margaret for them to

754
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: get the same royalties that she got, so every single

755
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: illustrator on her books got the same royalties she got. Nice.

756
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: But it must be said that Margaret, like all of us,

757
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: was not perfect. She was a human being, so not

758
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: a perfect person. She held some anti Semitic views that

759
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 1: she blamed on anti Jewish propaganda that was admittedly pretty

760
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: rampant in the thirties and forties. But though she admitted

761
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 1: that it was wrong and she wished she didn't have prejudice,

762
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 1: she also thought it wasn't something that she could change

763
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 1: about herself. She kind of had like a two bad

764
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: so sad mentality about pratice. Can't help being racist. I'm

765
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: just a victim of society. Come on, come on, Margaret.

766
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: Margaret wrote her most enduring classic, good Night Moon, The One,

767
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: the One and Only. That same year, Michael was on

768
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 1: tour doing a poetry in music series called Great Works

769
00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: with Great Music, And it was like classic readings of

770
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 1: literature and classical music playing behind it. Which I think

771
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: would be cool, depends on the poems you're reading. I

772
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: don't want to hear her poems. I'd be like, you're

773
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 1: you're ruining this Franz list song with your garbage. Nice

774
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: drop that you dropped something like list, He's on my

775
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 1: list of my favorite Would you say you have missed

776
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: do Mania? Yeah? I would say I have listeria. You

777
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: want to take you to the talk um. But while

778
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,280
Speaker 1: she was on tour, she collapsed at the Savoy Hotel.

779
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: She assumed it was because of exhaustion, but she discovered

780
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 1: at the hospital that she actually had leukemia. Now she

781
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: blamed the cancer on her sinful relationship with Margaret, as

782
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: she put in. Some sources say that she had grown

783
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: more religious as she got olders that's probably where she

784
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: picked up that bullshit. But regardless, Michael still made Margaret

785
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 1: the executor of her will. On her deathbed, she called

786
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: out for Margaret, and the doctors had tried to borrow

787
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: Margaret from Michael's bedside, but you know, you can't hold

788
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 1: back Margaret. And she got in there and she was

789
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: holding her hand as she died, and she promised to

790
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,919
Speaker 1: keep her memory alive by reading aloud from her book

791
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: of poems every morning. And in her own diary, Margaret wrote,

792
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: one who has dared to be gloriously good and gloriously

793
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: bad in one life, no limbo for her. I mean,

794
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: that's a statement. Didn't mince words, you know, but I

795
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: think that kind of shows that line kind of shows

796
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 1: me a little bit more why Margaret loved her and

797
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: stayed with her for so long, even though they were

798
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: not seemingly not very compatible, like Michael would never go

799
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: to her main house, for example, refused to go to

800
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: the only house, and Margaret would even try to like

801
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: tempt her by like having little like a more comfortable

802
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: thing built nearby and like would bring stuff, but nothing

803
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 1: ever made her come. So it's just like man, Michael

804
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: really just was really wrapped up in her own self.

805
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: But I kind of see that Margaret. You know, she

806
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: was a weirdo. She was like I'm wanting. She had

807
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: a real zest for life. She wanted to experience a

808
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: lot and see a lot, and Michael did have that

809
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,479
Speaker 1: in her as well, So you can kind of see

810
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: where maybe they they found something that really threaded them

811
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: together besides literature, you know, being into writing makes sense.

812
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: And of course, of course Margaret was sad and grief

813
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: stricken after Michael passed away, but she also kind of

814
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: came into her own probably because she didn't have somebody

815
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: like talking about her career into her every day. Some

816
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: for some reason that made her feel better. And she

817
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: wrote her book Mr. Dog after Michael's death, which some

818
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: believed to be a thoroughly veiled autobiography. Um it's about

819
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: a pipe smoking terrier who belonged to himself and went

820
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: wherever he wanted to go, and the dog you can't

821
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,760
Speaker 1: hold down this Dog's dog the terrier is named Crispin's Crispian,

822
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: and that is Margaret's own dog's name, and that dog

823
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: was a gift from Michael Strange. Margaret never seemed to

824
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: care really that she never had gotten married or had

825
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: kids of her own. She wrote to her college as

826
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: alumni magazine in nineteen five, scoffing, how many children have you?

827
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: I have fifty books? Motherfucker? Yeah, looks like let me

828
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: count how many books? If you is? Uh, it looks

829
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,919
Speaker 1: like none. I'm pretty sure it's none. Although, of course

830
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,919
Speaker 1: children are you know, her main market, right, Maybe don't

831
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: alien age somebody should have kids. It's great you have kids,

832
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: I have books. This is a symbiotic relationship. Yeah, what

833
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 1: are you mad about? Yeah? She honestly didn't really have

834
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: any particular affinity for children. She told a reporter in

835
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: n s quote. I don't especially like children, at least

836
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 1: not as a group. I won't let anybody get away

837
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: with anything just because he's little of children's authors. Yeah,

838
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: Maurice Sindak, I think Dr Seuss. She didn't love kids,

839
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,720
Speaker 1: but she did enjoy talking with one of her neighbors

840
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: three kids. He was the middle child. His name was

841
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: Albert Clark, and they hung out all the time. He

842
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: would talk to her about her books and share his

843
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: opinions about what she'd written, and that might be why

844
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,479
Speaker 1: she decided to name him in her will, giving him

845
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: the royalties to many of her stories, including Runaway Bunny

846
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: and good Night Moon. Albert didn't even know it, but

847
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: he fucking hit the jackpot. Nobody knew. Yeah, it's like

848
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: Kevin Fighy going to some kid in two thousand seven

849
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: and being like, hey, kid, you know what, I'm gonna

850
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: give you all the royalties to this thing I'm putting together.

851
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: It's called the Marvel Cinematic univers I don't know it's

852
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: gonna be garbage, but here you go. It's all yours, kid,

853
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: forever amounts to anything. Sorry to burden you with this crap.

854
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: Crap anyway, not a bad land for Albert Well. During

855
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: a vacation to Cumberland Island, Georgia, she met James Stillman

856
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 1: Rockefeller Jr. Known as Pebble to his friends. He was

857
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 1: about fifteen years younger than her, and he was about

858
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,760
Speaker 1: to embark on a three year round the World sailing

859
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: voyage A Rockefeller. A Rockefeller going on a voyage. Where

860
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: in the world did he get the money for that?

861
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: Oh wait, he had a boyish manner and a lack

862
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: of pretense despite his Rockefeller and Carnegie bona fides. Let's

863
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: not forget his dad was Rockefeller, his mom was a Carnegie.

864
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: This guy, how I vacation on a budget by James

865
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 1: Stillman Rockefeller Jr. First have a boat. Yeah, don't buy

866
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,760
Speaker 1: a boat, just have a family yacht. Save yourself millions

867
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 1: of dollars go right there. Now you got millions dollars

868
00:51:53,960 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: spent all ship. It's called economy and way. So he

869
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: charmed her a lot because he was, you know, so

870
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: chill and cool and normal, and he was clearly smitten

871
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: with her as well. They quickly became engaged like that weekend,

872
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 1: and he kept his plans for his stailing trip, but

873
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 1: this time the adventurous Margaret would join him on that trip. Nice,

874
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: which I think she was probably fucking thrilled about. Hell yeah,

875
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: if James Stillman Rockefeller Jr. Walked in right now and

876
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: proposed to me instead, if we get married, you can

877
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: come on a boat trip around the world, I'd be like,

878
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: yes a thousand times, Yes, I guess I have to

879
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,839
Speaker 1: get a divorce first, but we'll work out. We'll work

880
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: that out after the trip, right, Rockefeller, don't worry about it. Right,

881
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: it's done, it's lost. Don't apply. Let me ask my dad.

882
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,919
Speaker 1: He's a Rockefeller. Oh, he said, ask your mom, she's

883
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: a Carnegie. You know what it's handled. They said, what's

884
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: the problem, They said, what's a problem. But before they

885
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 1: went on the trip too around the world, Margaret had

886
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: some business she had to handle in France. And before

887
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: we find out about her business ship to France, let's

888
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 1: find out about these commercials. Stay tuned, Welcome back to

889
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,399
Speaker 1: the show. Everyone. So Margaret had to go to France

890
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: for this business trip before she could go on the

891
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: adventure of a lifetime. And while she was in France,

892
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: she had either appendicitis or maybe an ovarian cyst our.

893
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 1: Sources disagree, but in either case, she had to be hospitalized.

894
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: She was very scared for her own life, and she

895
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,280
Speaker 1: sat in that bed and she wrote out her will.

896
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: She left the royalties to Albert, she left her ashes

897
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: and her houses to Pebble Carnegie Rockefeller, and she left

898
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:51,720
Speaker 1: her dog, Crispin's Crispian to Michael Strange's old friend Walter.

899
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: But about a week or so later she was cleared

900
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: to leave the hospital. Her nurse came in to ask

901
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 1: Margaret how she was feeling, and Margaret, feeling fine, did

902
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: like a little playful kick with her legs to show

903
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 1: that she was just feeling great. I can't wait to

904
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 1: get out on this voyage. Tragically, and this is the

905
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: worst thing I've ever heard. That little kick loosened a

906
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: blood clot that had formed in Margaret's leg. It caused

907
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: it to travel up to her brain, and moments later

908
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 1: she died. She was two years old. That's not the

909
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:36,439
Speaker 1: single most horrifying and upsetting thing you've ever heard. Then

910
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 1: you've heard some terrible things. Is really getting to me,

911
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: just like my little joyful kick is what killed me?

912
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I know, right, And I was like,

913
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: oh god, just that just goes to show you just

914
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: never know. Well, I'll be like so scared to kick

915
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: my legs ever again. Oh my god. Yeah, I'm not

916
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 1: moving ever again. But that's how you form blood clots.

917
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: You gotta keep moving. Oh my god, Hug your dogs, man,

918
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 1: you just never know, and the people you love to

919
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,320
Speaker 1: yet obviously the dogs and people you love because you

920
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 1: just never know when you're gonna kick your legs wrong

921
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: and die moments later. This is horrifying. I need to

922
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, you know what, just put me in a

923
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 1: coma until they've developed a cure for everything. You'll be

924
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: waiting a long time because they're gonna come up with

925
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 1: new ship. Put me in a robot body. Well maybe soon,

926
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: plug me into the matrix. Well, so Margaret has passed,

927
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 1: but the story is not over because I wanted to

928
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: tell you what happened after this. So Albert had these royalties,

929
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 1: but at the time, Margaret's books weren't worth that much.

930
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 1: She and Albert's family probably thought that he would end

931
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: up with like a little nest egg of a few

932
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,479
Speaker 1: thousand dollars when he came of age, or a couple

933
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: of books. But upon Albert's twenty first birthday, he and

934
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: his father went to Manhattan attorney Samuel Nadler and discovered

935
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 1: that seventy five thousand dollars had accumulated since Margaret's death

936
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: in ninety two. And this is now nineteen sixty nine,

937
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: sixty five seventy five thousand dollars. Let's go ahead and

938
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: plug that into our very hi tech for five year,

939
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: six hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Today, this is when

940
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: a house costs like twelve dollars. That's an insane amount

941
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: of money. Yes, it's crazy. And sam the attorney, Samuel Nadler,

942
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 1: is like, please let me invest this for you, because

943
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 1: you could like live forever on nothing but dividends. But

944
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: Albert is twenty one fucking idiot. Yeah, he's like, give

945
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 1: me the cash. He gave half to his family, that's nice,

946
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 1: and then he spent the rest and he was flat

947
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 1: broke by the end of the year. Oh my god.

948
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: Samuel Nadler should have been like, wow, I just looked

949
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 1: up your your inheritance and it looks like you have

950
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:58,399
Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars. Yeah, seven thousand dollars, and I'll call

951
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:02,240
Speaker 1: you if any more comes in, you know, over the years,

952
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 1: don't worry. Wow, way to go, Albert. Well, Albert had issues.

953
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: Albert had some issues. I think that Margaret liked him

954
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: as a child because he was kind of mischievous and

955
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 1: we would run around and you know, he used to

956
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: rule outspoken and stuff, But as a grown person, I

957
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 1: don't think that worked for him. No, he had a

958
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: criminal record for theft, and grand larceny, which is three

959
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: sizes up from small larceny. I'll take my loceny grande

960
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: grande larceny. He's a Venti larceny. Really, can we start

961
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 1: ranking crimes with the Starbucks sizes? I think more people

962
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: would understand the severity. This wasn't just of Venti theft auto.

963
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: You know, this wasn't just murder. This was a Venti

964
00:57:52,520 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 1: murder an extra shot hotter ice extremely hot. Wow. But yeah,

965
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: he also got in for criminal trespass and something called

966
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 1: malicious mischief. What is malicious that like? Is that like, um,

967
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:17,479
Speaker 1: if you buy an army from the Chatari and bring

968
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: them to Earth to conquer mankind and rule over them

969
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: as a god, that sounds like malicious mischief to me. Well,

970
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: on a god level, yes, I think on an Albert level,

971
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: what is he like? Singing Christmas carols in July? He

972
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: should have called the bird brains. They could have shown up.

973
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: Would they would have had his back? At any rate,

974
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: Albert has had a big problem. He's basically stealing, smashing

975
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 1: ship and causing a ruckus. Yeah, general general bad behavior.

976
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: So Samuel Nadler, the lawyer, is like, okay, let me

977
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 1: handle the money here, but and he would give him

978
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: an allowance. As the investments grew and royalties continued to

979
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: trickle in, Albert's weekly allowance grew for hundred and twenty

980
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 1: five dollars a week to eventually five hundred dollars a

981
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 1: week and didn't stop him. He continued to have run

982
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: ins with the law. Noither would bail him out of

983
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: jail and handle all his affairs. And then in nineteen

984
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 1: seventy Albert married a woman in Puerto Rico, but after

985
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 1: the birth of their second kid, he fled the country

986
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 1: to avoid drug charges and abandoned the family like days

987
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: after the birth of his second child. You got this right, hunt,

988
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 1: thanks gotta go by. His weekly allowance was eight hundred

989
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 1: dollars by this point, and he just started wandering the

990
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: streets and sleeping in an old van. He met a

991
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: homeless woman, he sobered her up and married her. I'm

992
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 1: not sure how he did this in the condition he

993
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 1: was in. Great question. They had two kids together. Years

994
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 1: later he would accuse her of child cruelty and divorce

995
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: her and gained custody of the kids. He believed that

996
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: Margaret was his real mother. He claimed that he heard

997
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: his mother confess to it, but she says, no, I

998
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 1: never said that, And most of Margaret's friends were like, no,

999
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: absolute way that's the case, because first of all, she

1000
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: couldn't have hidden a pregnancy from us. We would have

1001
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 1: known about that. And second of all, she wouldn't have

1002
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 1: hit a pregnancy from us. She was not the type

1003
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: to to to shy away from that, not tell people. Yeah,

1004
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 1: more than likely she would have just kind of flaunted it,

1005
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 1: and are not flaunted it, but kind of like her

1006
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: lesbian relationship, which like, of course people surely were whispering

1007
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 1: and had all kinds of things to say about it,

1008
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 1: but she just kind of didn't care. You know. It

1009
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 1: wasn't like look at look at me, look at it.

1010
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: But it also wasn't like I'm not going to change

1011
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:42,919
Speaker 1: for you. Right. So, over the decades, Mr Albert has

1012
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: gone through about five million dollars in royalties. Wow, And

1013
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 1: we're not sure about what's going on with him right now.

1014
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 1: Nobody's written about him in some time. The last reference

1015
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: was around the year two thousand, saying that um suggesting

1016
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: that he Alzheimer's. Possibly he may have passed by now,

1017
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: or he may be in a home somewhere be at

1018
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 1: least in his seventies, I believe, and I think I

1019
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: think his children were in line to get those royalties

1020
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 1: after he passed. His American children, probably the Puerto Rican

1021
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: children don't get shipped. Who knows if he ever wrote

1022
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 1: anything down? Yeah, like has any records? You know what

1023
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 1: I mean? Like, who knows what they have to connect

1024
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: to him? Do you know? Hey, how do you feel

1025
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 1: about a quick fling? I mean I've been saying that's

1026
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: a great idea for years. I meant, like a quick

1027
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: fling with history. Yeah, that's what I meant to. Oh good, Okay,

1028
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 1: well then we're on the same page. It's time for

1029
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 1: a quick fling with history. Nasty. Yeah, welcome to this

1030
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: newish segment. We just kind of realized that there's sometimes

1031
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 1: stories that are sort of tangentially related that we find interesting,

1032
01:01:57,480 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: but they're not necessarily related to the romance, but we

1033
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 1: just want to make you listen to them anyway. So

1034
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:04,439
Speaker 1: here we go, quick flame. Yeah, this came up while

1035
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 1: we were researching the Romance, and it's a really cool,

1036
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 1: little interesting piece of history that everybody should know about. Yes,

1037
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 1: Margaret's books, of course to be her true legacy as

1038
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: we all know. Um, But she never thought Goodnight Moon

1039
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: would make it. In fact, sales were so bad in

1040
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 1: one that editors were considering shelving it for good. And

1041
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: it was all because of one lady named Ann Carol Moore.

1042
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 1: It sounds like we could use a little and Carol

1043
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 1: less well depends I guess. Um. She essentially invented children's libraries. Okay, well,

1044
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: that's cool. She had developed the first one in Brooklyn,

1045
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 1: so she went into a regular library and then she

1046
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 1: was like, hmmm, guess what, all this ship doesn't work

1047
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 1: for kids at all. She brought in smaller chairs, shorter shelves,

1048
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 1: and a lot of plants and flowers and like fun colors, um,

1049
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 1: and just made it a really comfortable space, and kids

1050
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: lined the block to come in. Sure. So in nineteen

1051
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: o six she became the superintendent of the Department of

1052
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: Work with Children at the New York Public Library. Cool

1053
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 1: because before Anne's Brooklyn experiment, kids were not allowed in libraries,

1054
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 1: which is like the weirdest thing to say to me,

1055
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: because it feels like kids and libraries go very well together.

1056
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 1: Yeah to me, I'm like, well, I'm an adult. I

1057
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 1: don't go to a library. I have a phone. Well

1058
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: like that, there's huge children's sections, you know, it's like

1059
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: a big I did. Most of my learning as a

1060
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: child was a library, as a school library or the

1061
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 1: town library or whatever. But back in the day, it

1062
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 1: was kind of like, if the kids are old enough

1063
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 1: to read, they're probably going to have their minds warped

1064
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 1: by all these trashy adult novels lying around. Kids are

1065
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 1: gonna come in here, They're gonna read Dickens. Okay, I

1066
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 1: won't stand for it. Down to fall of society once again, right, well,

1067
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 1: just a gain one the game. Keep in mind all

1068
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 1: media has at first been the thing that warped your

1069
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: mind and twisted you forever. Like we would probably love

1070
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 1: it if a kid would read a novel now, But

1071
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 1: back then reading novels was basically like watching reality television.

1072
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 1: People're like, oh, you're so intellectually like lame or whatever. Yeah,

1073
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 1: some kids gonna come in reading Moby Dick and we'd

1074
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, put it on TikTok. It's

1075
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 1: just a video of this child reading at that level.

1076
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: Is mind what a brilliant And back then they're like,

1077
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 1: it's rotten his brain. Kids are going to grow up

1078
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 1: to be hooligans reading books. But anyway, so yeah, they

1079
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 1: were like, if they're old enough to read, they're going

1080
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 1: to read the wrong thing. And if they're not old

1081
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: enough to read, then what are they doing a library?

1082
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 1: If they can't get any value out of a library.

1083
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 1: But Anne really changed all of that. She oversaw the

1084
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: central Children's room at the New York Public Library. She

1085
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 1: encouraged kids to check out books. If you could sign

1086
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 1: your name, you could check out a book. She had

1087
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 1: no problem with it. She hired and trained diverse staff

1088
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: to go out into their neighborhoods and get kids excited

1089
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 1: about reading, and she stalked the shelves with diverse books.

1090
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 1: Um New Yorker magazine quotes Anne as saying that her

1091
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 1: job was to give quote to the child of foreign parentage,

1092
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 1: a feeling of pride in the beautiful things of the

1093
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 1: country his parents have left. Right, So she stalked the

1094
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: shelves with books in their native languages, and she celebrated

1095
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 1: their holidays. Now this is the time, you know, it's

1096
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 1: mainly all about a assimilation. They were like, immigrants need

1097
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: to learn English. I mean, this is kind of a

1098
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: similar time to now I guess it's sort of like,

1099
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 1: if you can't speak English, get the funk out, and

1100
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 1: you need to learn to be American. I don't want

1101
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: to hear about St. Patty's Day or whatever. But she

1102
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 1: was like, no, we need them. They should be proud

1103
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 1: of where they come from and they should know about it.

1104
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: New York City kind of like the melting pot of

1105
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 1: melting cause, seriously, bring some foreign culture in here. And

1106
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 1: she hired black author Nella Larson to head up the

1107
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 1: Harlem Library's children's room, again another very unusual move for

1108
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: the time. She also scheduled hundreds of hours of storytelling events.

1109
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 1: That's great. I would like to rescind my criticism and

1110
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:27,440
Speaker 1: say that I would like and Carol Moore not Carol Less. Again,

1111
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 1: depends depends because she also picked the books that went

1112
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: on the shelves. And when she was younger, I think

1113
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 1: that was fine and good, But as she got older

1114
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 1: and more established in her career, she got a little

1115
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 1: bit gate keepy. How about how about some and Carol

1116
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 1: moderate amount there you go, neither more nor less, just

1117
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:57,160
Speaker 1: a healthy serving and Carol medium and Carol and Carol there.

1118
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 1: Because Anne was all about giving books she thought would

1119
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 1: elevate their mind, or educate them, or make them better people,

1120
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 1: or build character or whatever. She felt like, I'm up

1121
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 1: here as a grown and I'm handing down to the

1122
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 1: next generation. Whatever. So she loved Beatrix Potter. She loved

1123
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 1: The Velveteen Rabbit, that type of book. You know, she

1124
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: loved Beatrix Potter. I wonder what she would think today

1125
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 1: of James Gorton's Peter Rabbit films. Probably as much as

1126
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 1: I think of them, which is not much. That's the

1127
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 1: first time I've thought of them. I'm so glad you

1128
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: brought them up. And this whole Bank Street experimental school

1129
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: thing where they get on the kids level and stuff

1130
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 1: did not appeal to her at all. And if Anne

1131
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 1: Carol Moore did not buy a book, no library in

1132
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 1: the country bought that book. Oh god. She supposedly had

1133
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 1: a custom made rubber stamp that said not recommended for

1134
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: purchase by expert. And she would go through like publishing

1135
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 1: catalogs and just stamp different books with that. Oh my god.

1136
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:09,920
Speaker 1: She was the Oprah of her day. Yes, just like

1137
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: she if if a book was going to blow up,

1138
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 1: because she said so literally, Yeah, she would put a

1139
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:17,599
Speaker 1: sticker on the book. She likes, and a big stamp

1140
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:19,719
Speaker 1: on the book she didn't. And if you got the stamp,

1141
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: your book ain't getting bought. Its torpedoed um. Betsy Bird,

1142
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 1: who is a longtime New York Public Library librarian, wrote

1143
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 1: a great blog about Anne Carol Moore and she said

1144
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:33,759
Speaker 1: quote she could effectively kill a book with that stamp.

1145
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 1: And she hated good Night Moon. She said, what is

1146
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:46,680
Speaker 1: this garbage trash? Why would anyone say good night to

1147
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 1: their bed? Right? Why would anyone say good night to

1148
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 1: the goldfish or what? I don't remember what? Good night room,

1149
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 1: goodnight moon, night the moon twice, that's not it, Goodnight

1150
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 1: to the loons, good night balloon, good night one creepy

1151
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:12,679
Speaker 1: red balloon in my room. There's like every parent listening

1152
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:15,720
Speaker 1: is like, oh my god, you don't know right, all

1153
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:17,560
Speaker 1: these parents are able to recite it from there like

1154
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 1: saying it now, childless adults, assholes? Dare we even do

1155
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:30,879
Speaker 1: with episode? Well, Margaret wanted Goodnight Moon in the library

1156
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:34,479
Speaker 1: so badly that she had the utters of the cow

1157
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 1: jumping over the moon blurred out of the photo just

1158
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 1: in case it offended the library ladies who made all

1159
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 1: these decisions. Seeing her at the publishing house, going through

1160
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 1: every book with just a little censored stickers, just putting

1161
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:54,680
Speaker 1: on every but and dismissed Goodnight Moon as quote unbearably sentimental.

1162
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 1: He's cold. I would call it quite horribly sentimental. Again,

1163
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:05,720
Speaker 1: depends we're not parents, so we haven't had to date

1164
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 1: it four hundred times in the last two hours or whatever. Um.

1165
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 1: And by the way, Anne is already retired at this point,

1166
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 1: but she still is running ship at the library anyway.

1167
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 1: Like her successor was run ragged by this lady. She

1168
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 1: would try super hard to avoid her. She would change

1169
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 1: the date, location, and time of all their meetings and

1170
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 1: she would show up, and Anne would be there without fail.

1171
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 1: She had connections inside. She's like, you can't pull it

1172
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 1: over me. I still run this show. She's such a

1173
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:45,560
Speaker 1: crazy person. She also hated eb White's Stewart Little and

1174
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 1: she tried to kill that book too. She spent a

1175
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:51,600
Speaker 1: couple of years like petitioning against it, basically like put

1176
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:54,640
Speaker 1: some rat poison out for this motherfucker. Right. She's like,

1177
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 1: this ship is nonsense, not what I expected from eb White.

1178
01:10:58,439 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 1: I thought it would be a real good book and

1179
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 1: it's a ship. And I guess at one point, the

1180
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 1: library stocked it and the librarian took it off the shelf.

1181
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 1: They only had one copy, so she took it off

1182
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:10,800
Speaker 1: the shelf and sat on it so nobody could check

1183
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 1: it out. That is so petty. This look. I know

1184
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 1: a few librarians, and that world is intense. It is

1185
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 1: like Game of Thrones. But she actually lost the battle

1186
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 1: against Stewart Little in So, which is when Good Night

1187
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 1: Moon came out. So maybe she's just in a really

1188
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 1: bad mood and she took it out on Good Night

1189
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 1: Moon because she just got stamped on um. If anyone

1190
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:40,120
Speaker 1: wants to know about her battle with eb White, it's

1191
01:11:40,120 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 1: a really interesting story. There's a great article by Jill

1192
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:45,599
Speaker 1: Lapoor called The Lion and the Mouse and the New

1193
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 1: Yorker um for the whole thing, and it really tells

1194
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 1: you a lot about Anne Carrol Moore and eb White

1195
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:53,599
Speaker 1: and this whole back and forth they had, and it's

1196
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 1: really interesting. So anyway, the New York Public Library would

1197
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 1: not stop Goodnight Moon until nine teen seventy two, when

1198
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:05,600
Speaker 1: it was nearing a hundred thousand copies sold. You know,

1199
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 1: they're probably like, oh, ship, we should we should probably

1200
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 1: get that book. I mean, if you know, people are

1201
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 1: probably asking every where the fund is Goodnight Moon. Surely

1202
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:17,720
Speaker 1: is it always checked out or what? People like, No,

1203
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:20,680
Speaker 1: we're not allowed, we were don't have it. It's been

1204
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 1: banished from libraries. But she died like a long time ago,

1205
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 1: but she's still here. She's everywhere. Sometimes I still here,

1206
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 1: stamp stamping away. But hey, you know what, I think

1207
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:40,559
Speaker 1: Margaret got the last laugh here because Michael always talking

1208
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:45,560
Speaker 1: shit about her baby books and and Carol Moore, you know,

1209
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 1: trying to shut the whole thing down and keep it

1210
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:49,560
Speaker 1: out of libraries. But I'll tell you what. It's the

1211
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 1: year two thousand twenty one, and we are still reading

1212
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:58,640
Speaker 1: those books, and we ain't reading Michael's poetry. No thank you,

1213
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:02,120
Speaker 1: and and Carol More. I thought it was sentimental claptrap.

1214
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:05,599
Speaker 1: But it's one of the most checked out books from

1215
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 1: the New York Public Library today. Even Margaret, judging herself,

1216
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 1: thought her writing was childish, you know, she was self critical.

1217
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:18,679
Speaker 1: But now there's literally academic writing about how deceptively simple

1218
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:22,960
Speaker 1: and brilliant her books are. So she showed everybody. She

1219
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: even showed herself in the long run. Show yourself, Margaret,

1220
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 1: You're worth it. Margaret Yeah, you did some good work,

1221
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:35,240
Speaker 1: which I'm glad, I mean, I I guess I'm glad

1222
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: she had a great career while she was alive. She

1223
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:40,720
Speaker 1: she knew she was successful at when she was at

1224
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:44,880
Speaker 1: her chosen path or whatever at her time. But it

1225
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 1: is hard sometimes when people are a little bit ahead

1226
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:51,360
Speaker 1: of the curve or they start, you know, something a

1227
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:54,639
Speaker 1: trend like children's literature and and just have no idea.

1228
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:57,160
Speaker 1: I mean, and an Carol Moore either if they went

1229
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:59,400
Speaker 1: to a freaking Barnes and Noble right now, they would

1230
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:01,320
Speaker 1: be like below own away by how much of it

1231
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:05,720
Speaker 1: is children's books. And then if you go in there, yeah,

1232
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:07,920
Speaker 1: and then if you go in you have to see that, oh,

1233
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 1: there's really small children's books, board books and stuff all

1234
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:14,559
Speaker 1: the way up to eight and nine and ten and twelve,

1235
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:17,320
Speaker 1: and then now there's teen. You know, like we're really

1236
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:21,320
Speaker 1: thinking about what you want to be reading and thinking

1237
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 1: about and hearing about and learning at different ages of

1238
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 1: your life. And that is thanks in part to her work.

1239
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 1: I think I think if she was like you were saying,

1240
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 1: if she wrote like children's book for adults today, I

1241
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:36,800
Speaker 1: think she would be a y a author. Yeah, I

1242
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 1: think that's that would have been her window. I can

1243
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 1: write fantasy stories for older people, you know, not for

1244
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:47,800
Speaker 1: little kids. Kind of annoy me, but I'll entertain them. Um,

1245
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:50,599
Speaker 1: but yeah I could. I could write some cool ship.

1246
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:54,600
Speaker 1: What is that about children's books kids hating kids? I

1247
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 1: didn't get it. I'm just like what, Maybe it gives

1248
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 1: some I don't know, just a different way to connect

1249
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:04,600
Speaker 1: because they've never been like, oh little baby, precious like

1250
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 1: they were, just like, write a good book and the

1251
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 1: kid will like it. I don't know. We talked about

1252
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 1: Roy Kent until also and how he talks to kids

1253
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 1: and they love him, and it's because we've you know,

1254
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 1: talked about this before. Talk to kids like they're adults.

1255
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:21,600
Speaker 1: I mean, don't talk to them like they're adults, but

1256
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:24,720
Speaker 1: just talk to a normal don't change yourself for the kid.

1257
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:26,560
Speaker 1: They can feel that they can read that and it

1258
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:30,160
Speaker 1: feels patronizing. Yeah, he likes that. Even if they're not

1259
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 1: rude about it, you can tell they don't want to

1260
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 1: spend time with you. So I think that people who

1261
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:38,920
Speaker 1: inherently kind of don't care for children do that automatically,

1262
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:42,680
Speaker 1: and then, you know, so they speak to them better.

1263
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:45,559
Speaker 1: They're able to kind of, you know, communicate with them

1264
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 1: more clearly and and and in a way that the

1265
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:50,400
Speaker 1: kids appreciate more. You know. So these adults are like,

1266
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 1: that's how you get a Roy Kent who's like, god,

1267
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:55,439
Speaker 1: I fucking hate having to talk to this kid and

1268
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:57,880
Speaker 1: the kids, Like, I love that you said that. I'm

1269
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:00,360
Speaker 1: so happy. I'm glad that you didn't both ship me

1270
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:02,599
Speaker 1: right now and just said I hate that I'm stuck

1271
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 1: with a kid right now. And then you're like, oh,

1272
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 1: I guess I don't hate that I'm stuck with a

1273
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 1: kid right now because you're not being a kid. You're

1274
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 1: being a normal last person, which is what kids are.

1275
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 1: But hey, kids, thanks for tuning in. Yeah, you know,

1276
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:17,760
Speaker 1: I was glad we're able to bring this story. Yeah,

1277
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:20,240
Speaker 1: I I hope, I hope you enjoyed it. Kind I

1278
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 1: just kind of love this, um this secret. I guess

1279
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 1: it's not really a secret, but I kind of love

1280
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:28,320
Speaker 1: this like lesbian relationship for this children's author. You know,

1281
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:30,280
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot of parents out there

1282
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:37,240
Speaker 1: probably you're like, oh, no, Witchcraft Goodnight Moon, which there's

1283
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:42,280
Speaker 1: probably secret lesbian messages in it converting our children. Goodnight Moon.

1284
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:44,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if they still have moon is a

1285
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:53,519
Speaker 1: very feminine symbol. Oh my god, this is lesbian central.

1286
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 1: This book is This book is the gay agenda. Oh no,

1287
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:01,880
Speaker 1: goodnight moon is the gay agenda. Agenda is to say

1288
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:05,480
Speaker 1: good night to everything in your room. Wow, it's so whimsical,

1289
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:10,680
Speaker 1: how cute. I feel like there should be more to it,

1290
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 1: but it's just me. Do they still do that? Do

1291
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 1: they still be like kids can't read this or make

1292
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:21,160
Speaker 1: of gay? Oh? I'm sure they do, yeah, because I

1293
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:25,599
Speaker 1: mean we had the Teletubbies. That's what's happening in high school.

1294
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:30,200
Speaker 1: What's his face? Pat Robertson was like, the purple one

1295
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 1: is a triangle and that's a gay symbol. And I

1296
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:35,919
Speaker 1: was like, what, child, are you gonna get everything with triangles?

1297
01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:37,880
Speaker 1: And be like that means you're trying to teach them

1298
01:17:37,880 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 1: to be gay and I'm like, no, I'm trying to

1299
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 1: teach them shapes, you bitch. The triangle is the most

1300
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:49,760
Speaker 1: architecturally stable shape there is. That's what they're teaching kids, stability.

1301
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:54,040
Speaker 1: Where's where's my conspiracy theory that the Teletubbies were actually

1302
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:57,880
Speaker 1: an Illuminati thing? Oh? Yeah, there was like pyramids and

1303
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:00,040
Speaker 1: there was a son that was looking at you in

1304
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:03,240
Speaker 1: the sun. Yeah. I mean it's all on the dollar bill.

1305
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:09,760
Speaker 1: Look it up. People, do your own research. Research me. Well,

1306
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:12,519
Speaker 1: now that we've enraged all the conspiracy theory people out here,

1307
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:19,479
Speaker 1: how about we give out our email address. Great timing.

1308
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:23,280
Speaker 1: If you'd like to tell me what a stupid bitch

1309
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:27,759
Speaker 1: I am we're talking about the illuminati. You can email

1310
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 1: us at Romance and I heart media dot com right,

1311
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:32,880
Speaker 1: Or if you want to harass us on social media,

1312
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:35,599
Speaker 1: you can get us at Twitter and Instagram. I'm at

1313
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:39,680
Speaker 1: o Grade, It's Eli, I'm at Dianamite Boom. You can

1314
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 1: also find the show at ridic Romance on both those

1315
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:46,400
Speaker 1: platforms as well if you just want to um, you know,

1316
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:50,240
Speaker 1: send us hate messages there if that's you're into. But

1317
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 1: I would like to say good night listeners, good night friends,

1318
01:18:56,880 --> 01:19:05,559
Speaker 1: good night people. With greer answer. That's what I got. Beautiful. Look,

1319
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:10,639
Speaker 1: it's no Margaret wise Brown, but it's better than Michael's strange. Well,

1320
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:12,760
Speaker 1: there you go, guys, that's the metric for the day.

1321
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:15,560
Speaker 1: Try to be as good as Margaret wise Brown, but

1322
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 1: definitely better than Michael's strange. It's a nice one. Well,

1323
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 1: Thanks everybody for tuning in and we will catch you

1324
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,799
Speaker 1: on the next one. Love you bye, so long friends,

1325
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 1: it's time to go. Thanks so listening to our show

1326
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:34,160
Speaker 1: tell your friend's name was Uncle sandece to listen to

1327
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 1: a show ridiculous well Nance