1 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to woke ef Daily with 2 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from my Brooklyn Silarium. Folks, 3 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: I want to talk today about the fact that Democrats 4 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: don't really know what the fuck they're doing, right. I mean, 5 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: that's evident, And in my conversation today with our in 6 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: house doctor, our friend, doctor Jonathan Metzel, we unpack pretty 7 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: much the ways in which Democrats have essentially gone as 8 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: far as to snatch success right and throw it in 9 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: the toilet. Success meaning that a year ago, right, a 10 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: year ago this week, Americans, particularly black Americans, gave President 11 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: Biden a huge, historic, fucking win by electing him President 12 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: of the United States. Right. We did so because the 13 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: four years previous we had been led by a criminal, 14 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: an idiot, a misogynist, a racist, a homophobe, a transphobe, 15 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: and every other phobe that you could think of. And 16 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: we said no to fascism in America, no to authoritarianism, 17 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: no to the resurgence of white supremacy. And we thought 18 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: that by electing Joe Biden and by cleaning out our 19 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: government agencies, that we would be able to re establish 20 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: and reimagine how our democracy should work and how it 21 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: can work for all people. Well, over that year, right 22 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: Republicans have decided to do the complete and total opposite. 23 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: They have decided to construct an entire ideology that is 24 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: steeped and centered around white supremacy. And guess what they 25 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: are fucking winning. We thought that they were going to 26 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: end up doing another autopsy like they did back in 27 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: the early two thousands one Obama one, that they were 28 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: going to have to reassess what they were doing, that 29 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: their allegiance to Trump and America's rejection of him would 30 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: somehow force Republicans into recognizing their wrongful ways. But no, 31 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: it did the opposite. They went back into their tool 32 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 1: shed and they just retooled their messaging. But understand this 33 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: that their messaging has been the fucking same for fifty 34 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: goddamn years. It has been the ability to tap into 35 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: white rage and white racism as a way to win elections. 36 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: They don't need to offer these people anything. And that's 37 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: what Jonathan and I will talk about later. That's why 38 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: he wrote his book Dying of Whiteness, because it wasn't 39 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: about what Democrats can offer you. It was about for 40 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: Republicans and for white racists. Who are one and the same. 41 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: It is about playing the long game. It's about the 42 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. For them, it's about ridding this country of 43 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: be weighed. It is about putting black and brown people 44 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: in their place. It is about kicking women out of 45 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: the workforce. And how do you do that. Well, you 46 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: don't do that by saying it's illegal for women to work. No, 47 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: you make it illegal for them to be able to 48 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: have the power to decide when and how and if 49 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: they want to start a family, right. You make it 50 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: damn near impossible, so that there is no planning that 51 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: they can have. There's a reason why planned parenthood is 52 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: called planned parenthood, because you have the ability to plan 53 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: whether or not you actually want to become a parent. 54 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: But see, what Republicans have always wanted to take away 55 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: is people's power. That is that their m because the 56 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: only people that they believe that should have power in 57 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: this country are white, cisgender Christian men. That's it. And 58 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: if you object to that right, then you are thrown 59 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: out right of the country of the apple cart of 60 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: their unders standing in their desire right as an American 61 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: right like you don't exist, You're just they throw the 62 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: baby out with the bathwater. So if you don't understand, then, 63 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: as Democrats, how to appeal to and again I don't 64 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: mean to win, but how to create an appealing message 65 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: that not only showcases how fucking wrong Republicans are, but 66 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,119 Speaker 1: at the end of the day that you're still trying 67 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: to figure out how to juggle life, You're still trying 68 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: to figure out how to make ends meet, because again, 69 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: they're not creating policies and or programs that are allowing 70 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: for your life to have any ease. No, because also 71 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: tied to the fact that they believe in white supremacy 72 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: is also the fact that they believe in big corporations. 73 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 1: They believe in privatization. They believe that government should not 74 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: do anything for you while they take in your tax dollars. 75 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: They rake in that money. Right, the form at which 76 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: you were then paid back for that money is in 77 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: social services, is in public education. But the war that 78 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: they have now, folks, is to not only take your 79 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: money and give it to big corporations, right, it's also 80 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: to take your money while they dissolve those agencies and 81 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: those safety nets to begin with. Take critical race theory 82 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: as an example. Now, critical race theory is a theory 83 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: that looks at the founding of this country right through 84 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: a lens that is outside of the scope of whiteness, 85 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: that does not only take history through the lens of 86 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: the oppressor, but those that were oppressed. Right. It is 87 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: an idea. It is a theory that is taught in 88 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: higher education and isn't even taught in our fucking public schools, 89 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: let alone in Virginia where Glenn Yuncan made it the 90 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: cornerstone of his campaign. Now, just imagine for a moment 91 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 1: that Republicans instead of making the cornerstone of their campaigns, 92 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: you know, how to keep Americans healthy, particularly as we 93 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: are continuing our way through a global health pandemic. How 94 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: to better educate Americans so that they can get better 95 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: paying jobs and compete right globally with their peers. Instead 96 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: of creating infrastructure plans that look at how we are 97 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: going to fight against and create buildings, bridges, and roads 98 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: that are going to be able to deal with these 99 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: one thousand and one hundred year storms that now are 100 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: just becoming the norm, instead of doing any of that, 101 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: Instead of dealing with the problems that are barreling down 102 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: on us as a nation and as a Globe. Their 103 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: decide instead to spend hours and hours of time on 104 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: Fox News on Newsmax talking about their new boogeyman, which 105 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: is critical race theory, their idea that we are going 106 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: to teach white kids how to feel bad about themselves. 107 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many times I have listened 108 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: to white parents that the media loves to fucking give 109 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: their fifteen seconds of fame too, to talk to them 110 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: about how they don't want their children to feel bad 111 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: and whatever happen to reading, writing, and arithmetic, Because one, 112 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: you're not educating a child in the twentieth century anymore, 113 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: and there is more to learning than those three things. 114 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: And also that in order to create a thoughtful, educated, responsible, 115 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: accountable citizenjury, that one would need to expand our idea 116 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: of history and understand who has been adversely affected and 117 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: how we've gotten to the place that we are in 118 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: right now, right why we have certain policies that only 119 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: benefit certain groups of people. Glen youngcan made that the 120 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: cornerstone of his campaign, and by the time that you 121 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: hear this, he could very well be the new governor 122 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: of Virginia. Not because he has offered the Virginia people 123 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: anything other than taking away abortion and criminalizing public education, 124 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: and you know, taking away your right to vote, and 125 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: not believing in climate change and all of these other 126 00:08:54,800 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: elements that make up the neo Republican fascist sentiments. But 127 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: it's working because in Virginia, the number one thing that 128 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: voters care about is education. And like I said yesterday, 129 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: not about making our public schools better, creating better infrastructure 130 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 1: in our public schools, hiring more qualified teachers, creating robust 131 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: curriculum that would have your children be able to compete 132 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: right globally, right to be able to get those good 133 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: paying jobs and health benefits and be able to buy 134 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: a home, all of those points of what it means 135 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: to be successful in America. No, No, it is about 136 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: making sure that we continue to teach white supremacy, that 137 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: we continue to teach denialism, that we continue to teach 138 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: about white exceptionalism and white exceptionalism only. And it's working. 139 00:09:55,720 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: So why don't Democrats, Why don't they ever have a bottle? 140 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: Why don't they ever after fifty years of the same 141 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: fucking dog whistles just repackaged, right, Why don't they ever 142 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: have anything to counter? And Jonathan will say the minute 143 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: that you are on television debating the merits of critical 144 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: race theory. You are losing because we never create messaging 145 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: or ask questions that put Republicans on their heels. We 146 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: never ask Republicans to explain, while in the midst of 147 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: a global health pandemic, why they don't want robust healthcare 148 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: for Americans. We don't talk to Republicans and ask them 149 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: why they are creating policies that would force women and 150 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: people with uteruses out of the workforce, right at a 151 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: time when we are losing standing on the world stage, 152 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: largely because of their last president, their last deity who 153 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: decided to turn his back on the world America first, 154 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: but didn't offer anything to Americans. We don't ask those people, 155 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: what has the Republican Party done for you? How have 156 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: they put more money in your pocket? How have they 157 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: given you better paying jobs? How have they given you 158 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: a voice in your democracy? They want to turn around 159 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: and say parents should have the right to say what 160 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: it is that their kids are taught and what they 161 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: aren't taught. Really, because you don't have a fucking degree 162 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: in education. Really, because the belief should be that your 163 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: children end up better off than you are. But we 164 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 1: are living in a time when each new generation is 165 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: actually going to be worse off than their parents and 166 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: their grandparents. You know why, because the government isn't coming 167 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: out to help them in the way that they helped 168 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: their parents and their grandparents. Right there is no loan 169 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: for homes, There is no loan to help you get 170 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: out of your student debt or student debt forgiveness. There 171 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: is nothing. And that's because Republicans have wanted it that way, 172 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: because so long as you are left trying barely to survive, 173 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: they are able to run their authoritarian agenda. So long 174 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: as you look at both parties as ineffectual, right, then 175 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: they are able to then say, well, they've suppressed the 176 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: vote with voter suppression laws, and then they've suppressed the 177 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: desire to vote because people look around and they're just like, well, 178 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: what the fuck do democrats do when we give them power? 179 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: They argue amongst themselves, we have no wins right now 180 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: to be able to offer to the American people and 181 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: say this is what we've done with the power that 182 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: you've given us over the last eleven months. What are 183 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: we pointing to? So instead, where Republicans always win are 184 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:08,239 Speaker 1: the culture wars, where they always win is through racism. 185 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: Right There is a war on wokeism right now. There 186 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: is a war on even allowing and wanting children in 187 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: this country to be conscious of the truth. But there 188 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: was a war on facts that began folks a decade ago. 189 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,719 Speaker 1: But instead of us dealing with this head on, what 190 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: did Democrats do? They laughed, and they joked, and they 191 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 1: shrugged them. They said, oh, people that are smart won't 192 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: believe them. But you see, when you do not provide 193 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 1: counter messaging that is strong and robust, then you give 194 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: people no other choice than to consume the lies. This 195 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,119 Speaker 1: is why I say that Democrats continually believe that Americans 196 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: are better than they are. That does not mean that 197 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: I believe that Americans are bad people know, but I 198 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: believe that they need to be led right, and the 199 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: absence of real leadership, they will follow anyone like sheep 200 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: over a cliff. And that is exactly where we are headed. 201 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: When you can turn an election in the midst of 202 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: a global health pandemic that is killed over seven hundred 203 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: thousand people in this country, where people millions of people 204 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: have lost their job or are leaving the workforce, and 205 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: you have industry across industry on fucking strike right now 206 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: because they are tired of working for indentured servitude wages. 207 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: When you have that perfect storm and the only thing 208 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: that fucking Republicans are offering is more fuel to the 209 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: fire of white rage, and they literally aren't offering any 210 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: other policy. What the fuck are Democrats doing? Why can 211 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: they not paint that picture? Why aren't they asking the 212 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: right questions? This is the frustration that I have. And 213 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: these elections right that are happening this week are going 214 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: to dictate what twenty twenty two looks like. And it 215 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: is not going to be the blue tsunami wave. It 216 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: just isn't because from the moment that Biden one, he 217 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: should have had clear messaging on who Democrats are not 218 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: and what they are bringing to the table, and then 219 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: win after win after win of the things that they need, 220 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: so that then you can look to the opposition and say, 221 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: what have they done for you lately and clearly state nothing. 222 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: But that is not where we are. We are right 223 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: now up Ship's Creek without a fucking paddle and just 224 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: doing the dance with fascism and authoritarianism because we have 225 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: no counter narrative. So what this week will prove is 226 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: the work ahead, and the work ahead, dear friends, is 227 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: a really fucking deep and I don't know if we 228 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: have the backbone and have the desire to get the 229 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: job done. And that is what keeps me up at night. 230 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: This is what makes me worried on a day to 231 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: day basis. Coming up next is my conversation with our 232 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, author of Dying of Whiteness. Folks, 233 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: you know that I am always so happy each and 234 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: every week when we get to sit down with our 235 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, author of Dying of Whiteness, 236 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: which I believe he is a prophet and an oracle, 237 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: because that's exactly how I believe America will go. It 238 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: won't be aliens, dear Jonathan, it won't be an invasion 239 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: by foreign quote unquote terrorists. It will be of whiteness. 240 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: Right now, we have critical races. By the time that 241 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: this airs, we may or may not know who has 242 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: won the governor's race in Virginia, who has run the 243 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: governor's race in New Jersey and in other places. But 244 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 1: what is troubling to me is that Republicans offer nothing right. 245 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 1: What they offer is a rollback of rights, and they 246 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: offer a place for the white aggrieved to lay their head. Democrats, however, 247 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: offer policy change that is supposed to make your daily 248 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 1: life better. And yet all we see are polls that 249 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: are tied. All we see is the idea that as 250 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 1: we move into twenty twenty two, into midterms, that we 251 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: will most likely lose. What do you think, like, what 252 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: do you see as as the problem right now? Just 253 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: with Democrats in general, whether we're talking about this election, 254 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: that election day, or we're talking about the midterms that 255 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: we are walking into. It's a supremely frustrating moment. Certainly, 256 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: the Republicans, there are no surprises, right, Grievance politics, critical 257 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: race theory, inventing it as blah blah blah. This is 258 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: the same playbook they've been using for quite a long 259 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: time now. For me, the frustrating part is the Democrats 260 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: don't really have an answer for it yet. And it's 261 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: only been like twenty years of this playbook or fifty 262 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: years of this yeah, and so part of the frustrating 263 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: part for me is I just feel like we're doing 264 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: the same thing. So certainly there are of course, I mean, 265 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: the Republicans recognize that there are that white grievance politics 266 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: is a winning strategy, and we're of course seeing that 267 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: right now, but we know that right and so I'm 268 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: going to be a little critical of the Democrats today 269 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: at least to begin the conversation, because I also think 270 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: there were a couple of self inflicted wounds that we've 271 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: done over the past year that also led us to 272 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: this moment That don't have to do with something abstract. 273 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: It's actually like the concrete world of politics. And number 274 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: one is I feel like the minute we won the election, 275 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: we stopped messaging right in a certain kind of way 276 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: that in a way, the Republicans twenty four to seven, 277 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: they're messaging, telling people what to think, getting people on board, 278 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff. I don't agree with any 279 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: of it, but they're basically the Lincoln Project twenty four 280 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: seven times a million. And for us, it was kind 281 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: of like we won the election with a reasonably good 282 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: sense of messaging, which was taking it to the other side, 283 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: put the other side on the defensive for progressive audiences, 284 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: make them feel like they're part of the process, help 285 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: them crop their like it was a really effective messaging strategy, 286 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: and then we won and we stopped doing all that stuff, right. 287 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: I mean, it really feels like the narrative shaping has 288 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: totally gone away. So part of it is I feel 289 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: like our side has lost ability to craft the narrative 290 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: using the methods that got us here in the first place. 291 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: And the second don't even get me started, is I'm 292 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: sorry everybody. We should have just passed the infrastructure bill 293 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 1: when we had the chance. Right. The whole idea here 294 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: is the Democrats won the election because it's their argument was, 295 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: we can make your life better and we can get 296 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: stuff done, unlike the crazy circus of four years of Trump, 297 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,719 Speaker 1: and they had handed to them on a golden platter 298 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: a bill, right. It was. It was crafted by centrists. 299 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: Not everybody got what they wanted, but it would have 300 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: at least got the ball rolling. And I think it 301 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: was a mistake to say, well, we're going to hold 302 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: back on that because it'll give us leverage. That doesn't work, 303 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: you know. Basically, it gave time for the other side 304 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: to undermine everything. And so in a way, I do 305 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: think when the autopsy or whatever checkup of this moment 306 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: is told, not passing the infrastructure bill right away, even 307 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: though a lot of people. I mean I tweeted that 308 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: at the time and everybody yelled at me, But I 309 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: just think we needed an accomplishment. It would have actually 310 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: increased the leverage of all the parties involved now as 311 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: opposed to opening them up for what's happening now, which 312 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: is that everybody's the whim of everybody else. So not 313 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: passing the Infrastructure Bill is the second, I think massive 314 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,959 Speaker 1: mistake that we're seeing play out in a lot in 315 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: a lot of races now because the Republicans can basically 316 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: just say, well, what have those guys done for you? Nothing, 317 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: which is their aim is to make it look like 318 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: they're not doing anything for you. And you know, the 319 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: funny thing is with regard to the Infrastructure Bill is 320 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: that it wasn't even Republicans that were the obstructionists here, right, 321 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: you have two Republicans that are in the Senate who decide, 322 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: I mean two Democrats I always say Republicans because in 323 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: my mind that's what they are, Mansion and Cinema, who 324 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: decided that progress was not what they wanted, right, that 325 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: decided that, you know, fighting climate change and providing families 326 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: with much needed paid to family leave where one of 327 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: the only industrialized countries in the world that don't have that, 328 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: that don't offer not narrative fucking day and deciding that 329 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: those are things that they don't want. And so, you know, 330 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: when I look around, and I've been saying this, this 331 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: is you know when you say, you know, Republicans don't 332 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: offer anything new. They just find different ways to talk 333 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: about their same white grievances. Right so this election cycle, 334 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: it is critical race theory, and it is vaccines. Right 335 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: before that it was something else. They're not ever offering 336 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: to give the American people anything. Everything about the Republican 337 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: ideology is about what you can take back and about 338 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: what you can roll back. And the fact that Democrats 339 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: never never get their messaging together in a way over 340 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: the last five decades to be able to combat this 341 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: makes me believe that they don't actually want to win, 342 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: because nothing that they're doing shows us that they want 343 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: to win. We needed an infrastructure bill, we needed a 344 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 1: voting rights bill, We needed something to offer up to 345 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: the American people that said, after eleven months, right a 346 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: year after you would have voted, that this is what 347 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: you voted for. And right now we're turning around and 348 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: in these particular races that we're talking about, and again 349 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: time this airs, we may or may not know who 350 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: won these very critical races. But what everything should point 351 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: to right now is that democratic messaging is failing. It 352 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: does not work, and frankly, I'm not sure what we 353 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: are messaging. So, Jonathan, if you had an opportunity for 354 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: us to chop in a time machine right and go 355 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 1: back to you a year ago, what do you think 356 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,479 Speaker 1: that Democrats should have been doing from November third of 357 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: twenty twenty until this moment we're in right now. Democrats 358 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: won the election on the promise of governance, right, and 359 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: so I think that what Democrats always do is they 360 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: fail to take the low hanging fruit of things. You 361 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: can do that you because you know when the cameras 362 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: are off. I bet you ninety percent of politicians agree 363 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: about many things. And we had an easy win on infrastructure, 364 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: and so we should have absolutely the minute. And I 365 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: understand the infrastructure bill was negotiated by centrists, but just 366 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: think about think about human nature. Forget about I mean, 367 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: I agree with you about all the critiques absolutely, but 368 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: think about human nature. If you if you have something 369 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: in front of you and somebody says, well, even if 370 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: you want this thing, I'm not going to give it 371 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: to you until you do something else that I want 372 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: you to do. People feel like they're held hostage in 373 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: a way. So I just think the resentment now is 374 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: it just was so predictable, right in a way. I 375 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: think in a way, the Democrats would have been so 376 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: much better off with just taking the easy win, and 377 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: actually the progressive negotiating position would have been much stronger 378 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: than it is now where they're having to make all 379 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: of these bend or backwards things. And so I just think, 380 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: and I'll tell you why I'm so sensitive about this 381 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: particular issue is because it reminds me of what happened 382 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: when Obama won his first term, right, which is Obama 383 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: had a massive mandate, Like two thousand and eight was 384 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: an incredible year, and there was completely low hanging fruit 385 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: at that moment, which was a jobs bill. Right at 386 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: that moment, Unions were behind him, workers were behind him, 387 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: everybody was behind him, and everybody would he would have shown, hey, 388 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: look I can get some stuff done here. But instead, 389 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: for different reasons, they said, oh, look we have this 390 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: one mandate, we might not always have it forever. Let's 391 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: start with the Affordable Charact. Let's start with healthcare, because 392 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: that's something that we are never going to get this 393 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: opportunity for again. But what they did is they jumped 394 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: into this hugely contentious arena. It opened the door, the 395 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: space for delay. The delay actually worked against them because 396 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: then the other side got to shape the narrative and 397 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: in the end, the affordable character. Even though, of course 398 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: you know, I'm the biggest fan of the world of 399 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: the ACA, but just that two year debate helped crystallize 400 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: opinions against it when they could have passed a jobs 401 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: bill within five seconds, really honestly, and it would have 402 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: shown like, hey, look we know how to govern. And 403 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: it's the same thing here with infrastructure business. Again not perfect, 404 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: but again your position is stronger if you actually, especially 405 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,239 Speaker 1: in this moment with the pandemic, show that you know 406 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: how to govern. And conversely, it's it's actually not passing 407 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: the infrastructure bill, ironically, for me, has empowered the mansions 408 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: and cinemas of the world more because all of a 409 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: sudden we need them more in a certain kind of way. 410 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: So if I had to do one thing, it's when 411 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: you're handed this victory, you take it right and you 412 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: don't see it as like, oh, we're just going to 413 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: get this one chance. You know, we're not going to 414 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: get this one chance to do our thing, and therefore 415 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: we got to do this thing. So I don't know that. 416 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: To me, that's number one. And number two, I would 417 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: just have hired whoever worked for the Lincoln Project, I 418 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: would have hired them, you know, to do Biden's messaging 419 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: because you can't stop going on the attack in this moment. 420 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: So those were my two things. How about you. You 421 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: must think about it a lot, yeah, I mean I 422 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: think about it every day, and all of the things 423 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: that you are laying out are correct, and it's just 424 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 1: you know, there were so many missed opportunities in the 425 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: first two years of the Obama administration. And again, I 426 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: think it's the belief that Democrats want to believe that 427 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: Americans are better than they are right, that oh, I 428 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: don't need to message to them because oh, they got it. 429 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 1: In the twenty twenty election, That's why there was historic 430 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: turnout because people got that we are in danger. But 431 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: the fact is is that when your day to day 432 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: life starts to flood in, you're not paying as much attention, 433 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: right because you are in a place of trying to 434 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,199 Speaker 1: thrive or in some cases trying to survive. And what 435 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: I believe that the Obama administration did wrong again, to 436 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: your point, would spend two years two You wasted years 437 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 1: where they could have dealt with jobs, with immigration, and 438 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: spent two years of a debate with people that were 439 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: never going to come to the table with them. Right, 440 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: they had a supermajority. You ram through and you get 441 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: things done as much as you can so that you 442 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: can turn around and point to your achievements. You don't 443 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: waste time in bad faith negotiations with people who literally 444 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: told you from the jump that they wanted you to 445 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,479 Speaker 1: be a one term president. So what does that tell you? 446 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: It tells you that they're not interested in working with you. 447 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: And so the fact that the people gave you the 448 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: gavel and the office means that you have to go 449 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: full steam ahead and worry about what the dissenters are 450 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: going to say later on. Right, but you will have 451 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: all of these wins that will have piled up that 452 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: the American people can point to and that you can 453 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: point to, and they can feel comforted in the fact 454 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: that this is the team that I want to get behind. 455 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: Because they know how to govern. And the important thing, 456 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: just given the way American electoral politics works, is is 457 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: you really need to win undecided voters. You need unfortunately 458 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: to win purple states. You need to win win swin states. 459 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: That's where all that's where all them, that's for all 460 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: the power is in this country is who wins those things. 461 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: And so the way you do that is you govern 462 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: true to your ideals. You governed true to your base, 463 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: but you also rack up wins that will help. I mean, 464 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: we're Democrats are are losing undecided voters right now. They're 465 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: losing them. You know the poll that came out of 466 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: Georgia yesterday showing herschel Walker, who's never done anything politically 467 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: in his life except support Trump, way ahead of Warnock. 468 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: Is you know, it's got to be a real wake 469 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: up call, um. And the and the answer is, I mean, 470 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: then it's natural human because of course, like we all 471 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: support social safety net, we all support climate we all 472 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: support like all these things are super important. But but 473 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: it's like seven steps to get there, it's not one 474 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,239 Speaker 1: step to get there. And for the Democrats, they just 475 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: have so much more to gain by racking up wins 476 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: and not every win is going to be one that 477 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: the other side's going to pose. You can also lure 478 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: your opponent into supporting something like they did with infrastructure 479 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: in a way that would have made it very costly. 480 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: I mean, if they would have. If I don't, I 481 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: don't think a lot of Republicans would go would have 482 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: gone in two thousand and eight against a jobs bill. 483 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: They wouldn't have. It would have been political suicide. So 484 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: you make it costly for the other side. But what 485 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: we've done is the opposite, right, we can't govern like Republicans, 486 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: so we can't just say, oh, we've got a mandate. 487 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: And I think it's a debated question if the Biden 488 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: election was even a mandate for any one group. It 489 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: wasn't a mandate for progressives or for centrists or anything. 490 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,479 Speaker 1: It was like showing the power of people working together. 491 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: So I just think, again, you're absolutely right, you take 492 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: the wins where you get them. But it's also the 493 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: more you start winning, the more it puts pressure on 494 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: the other side to have to answer to its own 495 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: base for why aren't you delivering to us? And you know, 496 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: to me, that's the that's the frustration, and you know 497 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: the reality too, is that every win isn't going to 498 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: be historic. And I think that, you know, one part 499 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: of the problem that Democrats have is that everything needs 500 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: to be this all encompassing, you know, historic piece of legislation, 501 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: and not everything is going to be that. Some things 502 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: are just going to be a fixed some things are 503 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,239 Speaker 1: just going to be as solved. And that should be 504 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: okay because as long as you continue to provide for 505 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: the American people, then they will be on your side. 506 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: But the moment that you want to waste time and 507 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: you know, this is the conversation. I got into a 508 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: back and forth on social media and on a radio 509 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: show that I did the other day out of Pennsylvania 510 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: where there where, you know. One of the people that 511 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: I was on with was saying, you know, Biden has 512 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: only been in office for ten months, like, how are 513 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: you expecting him to have done all of these things? 514 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: And I said, because we are don't have the time. 515 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: Are you operating on a different time clock than I am? 516 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: Where you have mid term elections that are breathing down 517 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: our neck and we have the understanding of what happened 518 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: during the Obama years that can happen again now. Is 519 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: the past not prologue to you, I don't understand. And 520 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: so for us to keep saying like, oh no, no, 521 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: give them more time, we don't have time to waste. 522 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: Our democracy is hanging in the balance, and nobody seems 523 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: to be acting with a sense of urgency, and to me, 524 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: that is one of the problems. I want to talk 525 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: Jonathan two about this fact, particularly around this Virginia race 526 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: which young Ken Glennie Younkin the Republican has essentially made 527 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: a referendum on critical race theory, which by the way, 528 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: isn't even taught in Virginia, right, which has made the 529 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: referendum on critical race theory and essentially on race in general, 530 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: and is using it, using it much better and much 531 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: more thoughtfully than Donald Trump has. Can you talk to 532 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: us about what you think of how they are having 533 00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: this conversation around critical race theory and ultimately races and 534 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: white aggrievance, right, that is happening in Virginia, and why 535 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: it could possibly take effect and take hold around the 536 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: country as we go into midterms. Well, first of all, 537 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: what's happening is horrific, right, It is shameful, There's no 538 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: doubt about that. But I would also say just in 539 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: line with our conversation already. It's very predictable, right, Um, 540 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: And so the question for me, I'm not surprised Republicans 541 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,479 Speaker 1: are winning basically on a racist message. That is, you know, 542 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: and and and and like every one of these things, 543 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: there's a bigger agenda, right for somebody in a back 544 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: room somewhere, or this isn't really about critical waste theory. 545 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: It's about defunding public education. It's about money, right, and 546 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: so this is this is this is serving a larger purpose. 547 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: And it's the same thing with guns. Um, you know guns, 548 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: it's not about Second Amendment. It's really about opening LA 549 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: and New York, which are a hugely lucrative gun markets. 550 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: So there's money is behind every one of these things. 551 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: Like none of the people were actually like, show me 552 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: one Republican who just took ibermecton without also sneaking in 553 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: a booster and uh and monoclonal antibodies and and and 554 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,280 Speaker 1: I'll I'll unfortunately show you a dead Republican and so um, 555 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: all these things have a money trail where they're whipping 556 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: up this populist, racist fervor for a bigger financial purpose. 557 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: So number one is these aren't just crazy things. These 558 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: are all these are and these are these are serving 559 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: particular financial and political aims, which are power and money. 560 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: And so given that we know that that's the playbook. Um, 561 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: the minute we're debating the merits of critical race theory, 562 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: we've lost, right, I really do believe that because this 563 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: is the provocation. It's the same provocation as we saw. 564 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: You know, we've seen this so many times, and like, 565 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: you know, two much from now, nobody it will be 566 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: something else, right, I mean, how many people are talking 567 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 1: about ibermecton right now? Do a search on Twitter. It's 568 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: like six people. And two three weeks ago it was 569 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: like the most important, you know thing of calamity ever. 570 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: It was on the number one segment on every news station. 571 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: Was that. Yeah, And so you have to find a 572 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: way to like change the channel, put the other side 573 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: on the defensive, don't take the bait and we take 574 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 1: the beat. Everything. This is some very very I understand, 575 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: very very provocative debate. This is very challenging. This is 576 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: very racist and hurtful. But you have to find a 577 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 1: way to fight back, which isn't just defending the merits 578 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: of critical base theory and the flip side for us 579 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: is we are pushed in a position where we are 580 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: now having to defend the merits. I mean, I'm a 581 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: scholar of critical race theory, but I never had to 582 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: like go on TV and argue about its merits before. 583 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,240 Speaker 1: And so the minute we're defending the merits of CRT 584 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: and that becomes the flash point. That minute that's the debate, 585 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: we've lost a lot. So we have to figure out 586 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: a way to change the channel. We had figured out 587 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: a way to change the channel, and unfortunately that's where 588 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: messaging comes in. That's where counter moves come in. You know, 589 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 1: what they're doing is they're amplifying extreme radical positions and 590 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: making them mainstream positions. And that's a playbook that's open 591 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: to us too. We can fight back with a million 592 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: different ways. But when again, I'm a practitioner of critical 593 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 1: race theory, actually believe in it quite strongly. I've devoted 594 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 1: my career to it. But I would also say, the 595 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: minute we are having this debate where we're going on 596 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 1: TV and defending the mirrors of critical race theory, we're 597 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: fighting on the wrong terrain as opposed to putting the 598 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: other side on the defensive and having them answer to 599 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 1: their base, which is what we should have been doing 600 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: in the beginning. You know, I just I feel like 601 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: every time I'm in these conversations with you and with 602 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: other academics and you know, and scholars, is just like, 603 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: if we know what they're doing, if we have the playbook, 604 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: then why is it that every time that these conversations, 605 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: these arguments, these false wars come around, why are we shocked? 606 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,359 Speaker 1: Why are Democrats continually taken off guard as if and 607 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 1: I continue to say, it's because they think that the 608 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: American people are better than they are, meaning that we 609 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 1: don't need to explain right why these things matter or 610 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,720 Speaker 1: why you should be asking better questions because to your point, 611 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: we don't force Republicans to answer any questions. Why do 612 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: you only want history taught through the perspective and the 613 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: eyes of whiteness. Why are you afraid of immigrants coming 614 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: into this country, like make them answer for their racism 615 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 1: and say it out loud and put it on the record. 616 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: And yet we never do that And I don't understand why. Well, 617 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 1: but the other thing is, I mean, I agree with you, 618 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 1: but it's also like we don't need them to answer 619 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: for the racism, the racism is you know, you just 620 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: turn on your computer like or you know whatever. The 621 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: racism is not a mystery right now. The question is like, 622 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 1: how do you respond to their racism, this particularly racism, 623 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: this critical race theory racism, right, and so like calling 624 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: them out on it, it's not going to work. Shaming them, 625 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,879 Speaker 1: it's not going to work because they're just doing it, right. 626 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 1: But I do think that there's a way where you 627 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 1: can turn the tables. I mean, again, it would have 628 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: taken a different but again, I just we lost the 629 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: CRT debate the way the same way we lost the 630 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: mask debate and the vaccine debate and the healthcare debate, 631 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: which is the other side rallies this narrative and we 632 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: don't have an answer for changing the narrative. But the 633 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 1: changing the narrative is on one hand, rallying our base, 634 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,799 Speaker 1: but it's also turning the tables and making the other 635 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: side have to answer for it, which we don't do. 636 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: So shaming them about their racism, like, I think your 637 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,319 Speaker 1: point is actually a much better point, which is like 638 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,280 Speaker 1: what the f have you done for me? Or something 639 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: like that, like that kind of thing, you know, So 640 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 1: I would just say, you know, we're just I don't know. 641 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,399 Speaker 1: We we took the bait here and people were kind 642 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,479 Speaker 1: of like everybody was laughing about Remember like six months 643 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: ago was laughing about the whole CRT thing. And it 644 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: turns out like does tremendous potency because it plays into 645 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: all these stereotypes and if you don't actively take the 646 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: narrative to the other side, you're going to lose it. 647 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: You're gonna lose, which is what what's unfortunately happening. Yeah, 648 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: I just you know, every day I look for mustard 649 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,399 Speaker 1: seeds of hope. Every day I look for I do 650 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: every every day. I'm out there looking for something that 651 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: is going to provide me with a sense of of 652 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: of ease in the fact that Democrats know what they're 653 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: doing and know the enemy that they're dealing with and 654 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: how to deal with that enemy. And every day I 655 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 1: come up empty, right, because the people that have the 656 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:52,840 Speaker 1: power to you know, to have a bullet a bullhorn, 657 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: right to message to the masses in the way that 658 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: they need to hear, they lose every time. And I'm 659 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: just like, Democrats are so brilliant at being able to 660 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: like snatch success and like throw it in the toilet, 661 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: right like and that to me is just like And 662 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,839 Speaker 1: then I'm sitting around as an educated person with a 663 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: degree in political science, and I'm thinking to myself, why 664 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: am I a Democrat? Like other than the fact that 665 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 1: I believe I have the same ideology, but like we 666 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,840 Speaker 1: don't have the same spirit. And at some point in time, 667 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,959 Speaker 1: if you begin to turn off people like my mother 668 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 1: who has decided to stop watching the news on a 669 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: regular basis and ask me every day what is wrong 670 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: with Democrats, then like you're losing the very people that 671 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,960 Speaker 1: are supposed to be the foundation of your party. I 672 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 1: would say two points about that I think important. Number one, 673 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: which we don't seem to see. The way to circumvent 674 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: that is by actually having achievements that you can tell. 675 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: So we should have passed the infrastructure Bill and then 676 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: had something that we could all rally around, because it 677 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,080 Speaker 1: would have shown, hey, we can all work together in 678 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,279 Speaker 1: a certain kind of way. Now I understand, believe me, 679 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: I understand the importance of strengthening the social safety net. 680 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: I understand climate is ruining our country. But as a 681 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: strategic move, passing the infrastructure Bill would have allowed. In 682 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: other words, the whole other side is geared to show 683 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 1: that you're not doing anything because you're wasting time on 684 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,279 Speaker 1: all these theories. So the way you circumvent that is 685 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: by passing the infrastructure fill. You know, it gives you 686 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: something concrete that then you can answer with it's not 687 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: just about messaging, right, And so I feel like we 688 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 1: play right into their hands by not having something concrete 689 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 1: to counter by saying, yeah, look, dude, we're building infrastructure. 690 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: Go ahead and have your little debit or something like that. 691 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: But without that, and their whole thing is they don't 692 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,919 Speaker 1: want us to get anything done. And so I just 693 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: for me, this is really going to go down as 694 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,839 Speaker 1: a very very bad error. So I just think it's 695 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: it's not just about messaging. But the other part, of course, 696 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 1: just to say it again is you know, I don't know. 697 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 1: I just keep thinking of the research I did with 698 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,720 Speaker 1: Dying of Whiteness, right. You know, it was twenty twelve 699 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: when when I interviewed people who were rejecting their own 700 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: healthcare and they said, like, we're playing the long game, 701 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: Like if I accept Obamacare, then we're not going to 702 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,359 Speaker 1: be able to control the Supreme Court, which then will 703 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: let us overturn abortion. All these kind of things like people. 704 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,399 Speaker 1: Even on the ground, they were all kind of I mean, 705 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,360 Speaker 1: white supremacy is a great organizing principle for a political party, 706 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 1: but in a way, people top to bottom bought into it, right. 707 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: They all thought, well, you know, hey, I'll reject my 708 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: own healthcare because what's more important for me is expanding 709 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: the Second Ammendment and overturning abortion. What's happening this week 710 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,799 Speaker 1: in the Supreme Court the Democrat The Democrats don't have 711 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: a coherent narrative, and I really feel like it's it's 712 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,799 Speaker 1: you know, it's harder to fight when you don't have 713 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 1: that kind of coherent narrative. Yeah, and you know, and 714 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 1: it's harder to fight when you just have no warrior 715 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,879 Speaker 1: spirit in you whatsoever. Well, but let me just say 716 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,800 Speaker 1: one thing about that, though, because I think it's important 717 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: to note that after the after the civil rights movement 718 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: in the sixties, you know, society was really afraid that 719 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 1: there would be you know, garbage workers were striking and 720 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 1: teachers were striking, and everybody was striking. And the way 721 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,839 Speaker 1: society address that was by making people feel this isn't 722 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,359 Speaker 1: a party thing, that the system wasn't going to work 723 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: for them, and so all of a sudden the seventies 724 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: the eighties, people check out, and that's when you get 725 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:30,799 Speaker 1: Reagan and all this kind of stuff. And so in 726 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 1: a way, there's a there's a message. Somebody is making 727 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: a lot of money to make you and me, and 728 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: people in college now and people in high school now 729 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,120 Speaker 1: feel like the system isn't working for them and it 730 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,719 Speaker 1: doesn't matter Democrats Republicans. But that's a crafted message. And 731 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,359 Speaker 1: I also think, you know, we have to be very 732 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 1: wary of that, because somebody is being paid to make 733 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: us feel like the system isn't going to work for us, 734 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 1: so it doesn't matter who we vote for. And that 735 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: isn't you know, it's an evil message. We have to 736 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 1: be careful of that. No, it is an evil message. 737 00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 1: And you're totally right. And the fact is is that 738 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 1: if we're aware of it, why aren't the Democrats in power? 739 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: If we understand that, part and parcel is not only 740 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,320 Speaker 1: to pass three hundred voter suppression laws across the country, 741 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: but then also to craft a message that makes you 742 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,880 Speaker 1: feel like your vote doesn't matter. So for those that 743 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,880 Speaker 1: want to show up, we're going to make it difficult 744 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: for you to show up. And for those that are 745 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,400 Speaker 1: on the fence about whether or not they want to 746 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 1: show up. We're going to send a message that says 747 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,360 Speaker 1: that your vote and voice doesn't matter because regardless of 748 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: who's in power, it's never going to change your day 749 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,800 Speaker 1: to day life. Right, And so that those two things 750 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,280 Speaker 1: colliding is the perfect storm of where we are. Everybody 751 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 1: is on strike, right. We have shipments of things that 752 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: are sitting in water. We have we have you know, 753 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 1: CEOs and shareholders that are making bookoo, bookoo amounts of 754 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: money while the poor are getting poorer by literally the minute. 755 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: And we're talking about a labor shortage when there isn't 756 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,839 Speaker 1: a shortage of labor, there's a shortage of like good 757 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 1: paying jobs with benefits. Right where people are deciding that 758 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,239 Speaker 1: I don't want to work for you know, indentured servitude wages, 759 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 1: that I actually want to be able to work forty 760 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 1: hours a we can put food on the table and 761 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,400 Speaker 1: get my medicine and get groceries all at the same time, 762 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,759 Speaker 1: and recognizing that neither party is actually working for that 763 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 1: to be simpler and easier. Right, Instead, they're turning the 764 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,879 Speaker 1: American people into these lazy victims that they don't want 765 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,400 Speaker 1: to provide you back your own resources, your own tax 766 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,279 Speaker 1: dollars in order to help your life be better. And 767 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 1: so yeah, I think that it is a dangerous narrative. 768 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 1: We'd know it, we see it. And the fact is 769 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,080 Speaker 1: is that why isn't it being delivered to the people 770 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 1: who need to hear it the most? No, absolutely right, 771 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 1: absolutely right, doctor Jonathan Metzel. As always, we appreciate your insight, 772 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,399 Speaker 1: your analysis, and your oracle sense of the fact that 773 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 1: we were all in fact going to die of whiteness. 774 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,480 Speaker 1: But at least we have our weekly therapy sessions, so 775 00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: I feel better about it to appreciate you. That is 776 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,760 Speaker 1: it for me today, dear friends on woke f as always, 777 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,760 Speaker 1: power to the people and to all the people. Power, 778 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.