WEBVTT - Interview Only w/ Rich Thau - What Swing Voters Really Think… And Why That’s BAD For Democrats 

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<v Speaker 1>Well, joining me now somebody I've known for a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of decades, Rich Taw. He is a message guru, if

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<v Speaker 1>you will, a market research tester, makes his living helping

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<v Speaker 1>advocacy groups and trade associations test various messages to try

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<v Speaker 1>to appeal to certain constituencies where I consume a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of his work is for something called the Swing Voter Project.

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<v Speaker 1>It's something he does in conjunction with Axios. If you

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<v Speaker 1>are a subscriber to those Axios newsletters and you've and

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<v Speaker 1>you've seen analysis of the Biden Trump voter, or the

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<v Speaker 1>Obama Trump voter, or the Obama Trump Biden Trump voter,

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<v Speaker 1>it's all thanks to Rich here and he goes state

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<v Speaker 1>by state. Tessed with him. I watch Sheep has a

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<v Speaker 1>YouTube channel. It's there. He puts up highlights of his

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<v Speaker 1>monthly swing voter groups that he does. There was one

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<v Speaker 1>in Michigan that I spent a lot of time. If

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<v Speaker 1>you guys will recall those sophisticated listeners of my podcast

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<v Speaker 1>have already heard me taut Rich's focus groups of Michigan.

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<v Speaker 1>He's got some new ones in Pennsylvania, but he's probably

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<v Speaker 1>arguably talked to more Biden Trump voters than anybody in

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<v Speaker 1>America and probably has his pulse, his finger on the

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<v Speaker 1>pulse of these voters as well as anybody. Rich hod

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<v Speaker 1>I do promoting you on this one, and you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>am I leaving.

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<v Speaker 2>Out ten out of ten? Perfect job, Thank you. It's

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<v Speaker 2>an honor to be with you, Chuck. I really appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 1>And you're also doing a Decider's project which is very similar. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>these are it's all qualitative research. It's focus groups, it's

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<v Speaker 1>not polling. And I want to get into sort of

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<v Speaker 1>those the differences in those techniques and the ability now

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<v Speaker 1>that you can focus we have larger and larger focus groups.

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<v Speaker 1>At what point does it become quantitative instead of qualitative?

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<v Speaker 1>We can talk about that, but you really are you

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<v Speaker 1>really are a big You feel like you get a

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<v Speaker 1>lot out of focus groups, don't you?

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<v Speaker 3>I do.

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<v Speaker 2>And the reason for that is a lot of people

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<v Speaker 2>in research like to count heads.

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<v Speaker 3>I like to see what's inside people's heads.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's the distinction between quant and qual For me

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<v Speaker 2>is I want to understand why people believe what they

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<v Speaker 2>believe what they know, as opposed to guessing what they know,

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<v Speaker 2>as supposed to me only saying well, seventy one percent

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<v Speaker 2>believe this, twenty nine percent believe that.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it's it's I always say, the single most important

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<v Speaker 1>question I try to answer all the time in political

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<v Speaker 1>analysis is the why? Right? Why is at the core

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<v Speaker 1>It's the single most important question I think that we

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<v Speaker 1>try to answer in the political space. Well, let's just

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<v Speaker 1>get Look, you started this. You've gone ten years now

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<v Speaker 1>essentially doing these. I feel like you first started doing

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<v Speaker 1>the Obama Trump voter focus groups back in the first

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<v Speaker 1>Trump term. I did. So you're getting close to ten

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<v Speaker 1>years of data now.

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<v Speaker 3>Aren't you? Not quite?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm getting closing in after March of twenty nineteen, So

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<v Speaker 2>I again, cause the first month we did it in

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<v Speaker 2>person in Appleton, Wisconsin. In fact, for the first thirteen

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<v Speaker 2>months from March of twenty nineteen through March of twenty twenty,

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<v Speaker 2>we did them in person. I traveled between the East

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<v Speaker 2>Coast and the Midwest month after month, and the pandemic

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<v Speaker 2>set in. We didn't miss a month. We just kept

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<v Speaker 2>going and did them online and became a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>easier to recruit because people didn't have to physically go

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<v Speaker 2>to a location and we could get people from across

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<v Speaker 2>an entire state as opposed to merely one town or

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<v Speaker 2>one region in a state. So the pandemic actually tragic

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<v Speaker 2>for so many people. Actually for us worked out well

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<v Speaker 2>for this particular project.

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<v Speaker 1>Has this totally Before we get into sort of the

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<v Speaker 1>substance of what you've been finding over the last few

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<v Speaker 1>months is the entire focus group world changed to do

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<v Speaker 1>in person focus groups matter anymore.

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<v Speaker 3>So, I think they matter.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of the vendors who had facilities close them

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<v Speaker 2>permanently because people were more than willing to do them online.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's a lot of change in that.

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<v Speaker 1>Particular to do it online right instead of you know,

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<v Speaker 1>hanging out for a couple hours, even though you're getting

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<v Speaker 1>paid at some office park, you know, in the suburbs.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, from a respondent perspective, it definitely was less work

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<v Speaker 2>for them, although I should say it's more work for

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<v Speaker 2>my team because we have to actually, if we want

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<v Speaker 2>to do it right, pre qualify people not just in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of their demographics and psychographics, but also their Internet connectivity.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, literally do they have enough megabits to be

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<v Speaker 2>on a zoom call for an hour and a half

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<v Speaker 2>without freezing up over and over again. So we actually

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<v Speaker 2>literally test every person with a tech check. Well before

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<v Speaker 2>you just had to show up and sit in a

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<v Speaker 2>seat and you know, eat a turkey sandwich with some

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<v Speaker 2>potato chips. So it's a very different type of experience

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<v Speaker 2>from my team. But from the response perspective, you know

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<v Speaker 2>they're in a comfortable spot. I have to worry about

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<v Speaker 2>things like dogs barking and kids bothering people during the

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<v Speaker 2>focus group, and I enjoy the experience more in person,

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<v Speaker 2>and I can moderate a larger group in person. I

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<v Speaker 2>can do ten or twelve people in person, but ten

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<v Speaker 2>or twelve boxes on a screen and zoom is impossible.

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<v Speaker 3>My max is like seven.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, look, I've conducted focus groups a few times myself.

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<v Speaker 1>I've observed quite a few of them in person and

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<v Speaker 1>virtually and count me as a skeptic of the in

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<v Speaker 1>person focus group. And here's why, Rich, And I'm curious

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<v Speaker 1>how you factor this in. I think it's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>easier for one person to hijack and in person focus

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<v Speaker 1>group than it is a virtual focus group. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>always the danger when you're doing this qualitative research, is

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<v Speaker 1>it not.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, the hijacking thing, you have to be super

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<v Speaker 2>careful about that. So I'll give you away one of

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<v Speaker 2>my big secrets, Chuck. I don't think I've ever said

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<v Speaker 2>this publicly before. I have been trying to figure out

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<v Speaker 2>I had been trying to figure out for years, how

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<v Speaker 2>do you get the loudmouth person not to get recruited

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<v Speaker 2>into the focus group. And I didn't find a perfect solution,

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<v Speaker 2>but I found something that I think anecdotally has worked,

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<v Speaker 2>which is, we have a screening question that says, do

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<v Speaker 2>you have any bumper stickers on your car that convey

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<v Speaker 2>a political message? The idea being if you want the

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<v Speaker 2>entire world to know what you believe politically so much

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<v Speaker 2>so you're stuck it on the back bumper of your car,

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<v Speaker 2>I probably don't want you in my focus group.

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<v Speaker 1>Interesting to use that as an eliminator.

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<v Speaker 3>I used that as eliminating.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, absolutely love it. I love it. What a great

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<v Speaker 1>eliminator question.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so again, it's not perfect.

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<v Speaker 2>But the other thing is what's the quality of the

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<v Speaker 2>moderating right, If you're a decent moderator, you know how

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<v Speaker 2>to put the loudmouth person who happens to show up

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<v Speaker 2>back in their corner, carefully, respectfully, repeatedly if necessary.

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<v Speaker 3>And I just find it's it takes practice.

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<v Speaker 2>There are techniques doing it, and if you're a crummy moderator,

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<v Speaker 2>you can't do it, and the person dominates the conversation,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's.

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<v Speaker 1>No, and then you've ruined the focus grip. I've ruined

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<v Speaker 1>the focus So I've seen that. Look, it's why frankly

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<v Speaker 1>a professional like yourself, Peter. I you know what, I

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<v Speaker 1>The person I observed the most over the years was

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<v Speaker 1>Peter Hart. Other than yourself. There's there's another prominent person

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<v Speaker 1>out there who I think is a bit too leading

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<v Speaker 1>in his focus group moderating at times, mister Lunce. And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm very friendly with him. You are too. We like Frank.

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<v Speaker 1>He is in some ways made focus groups great, right,

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<v Speaker 1>made more people aware of them sometimes, I think, and

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<v Speaker 1>I actually wonder, can you be an effective focus group

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<v Speaker 1>moderator if people know who you are before it starts.

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't want to disparage Frank. I've known him

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<v Speaker 2>again thirty plus years.

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<v Speaker 1>No, and he was arguably a pioneer in helping to

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<v Speaker 1>make this a mainstream idea to study political habits.

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<v Speaker 2>And dial testing, which he popular which is kind of

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<v Speaker 2>key thing I do in my message testing work.

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<v Speaker 1>Very important.

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<v Speaker 2>I think One reason why I have generally flown below

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<v Speaker 2>the radar is that I want to be anonymous right

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<v Speaker 2>to the people who who sit down in a focus group,

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<v Speaker 2>and I've I've had focused group respondents come up to

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<v Speaker 2>me and say that I'm somehow different from Frank Luntz,

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<v Speaker 2>who were had where they had been responded in his

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<v Speaker 2>group prior to being in mind and offline.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll tell you a very funny story. I don't want

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<v Speaker 3>to repeat it public.

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<v Speaker 1>No, and again I don't I'm not We're not trying

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<v Speaker 1>to pick on Frank here. But look, I found this

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<v Speaker 1>difficult myself, right I And you know, in the in

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<v Speaker 1>the world of network news, you know, they want you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you want Chuck Todd and they're talking to voters, right

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<v Speaker 1>and you talk to independent voters. It was really hard

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes to get them to to you know, not feel

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<v Speaker 1>like they were talking to Chuck Todd and feeling like

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<v Speaker 1>they were trying to make an answer that I might

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<v Speaker 1>have in their own heads that I might quote unquote

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<v Speaker 1>approve of or and it's just like no, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>It's like you don't you know I'm trying to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to, you know, pretend I'm not here type

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<v Speaker 1>of mindset, and that's why I asked that. And I've

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<v Speaker 1>wondered if Frank, in some ways you can't make the

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<v Speaker 1>focus group about the moderator. That's my point, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think that's where I have failed, and I'm guessing that

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<v Speaker 1>Frank struggles sometimes with that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think for me, I'm a boring ass, late

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<v Speaker 2>middle aged white guy, and I am as vanilla as

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<v Speaker 2>I can possibly be in the focus groups.

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<v Speaker 1>I am very good at a failure, not very vanilla.

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<v Speaker 1>But yes, you play vanilla well on TV.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I do, because that's how you get the right answer.

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<v Speaker 2>And also that's how you don't get accused of being biased, right,

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<v Speaker 2>And I really do everything I can to try to

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<v Speaker 2>again throw the pitch straight down the middle of the plate.

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<v Speaker 1>What is how do you verify? You know everybody wants

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<v Speaker 1>to say they're a swing voter. Do you go to

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<v Speaker 1>the voter file to verify these folks? I know you've

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<v Speaker 1>got a recruiting team, is it, Sego? I think, does

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<v Speaker 1>your recruiting for all of your focus group projects? Do

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<v Speaker 1>you do voter file verification on these people?

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<v Speaker 2>So I do not let me tell you what we

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<v Speaker 2>do do. So This is an imperfect process. I am

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<v Speaker 2>the first person to admit it. It is impossible to

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<v Speaker 2>know who voted for whom or whether they voted. It's

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<v Speaker 2>possible to know whether they voted. It' impossible to know

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<v Speaker 2>for whom they voted. No one was in the voting

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<v Speaker 2>booth or sitting at the kitchen table with them if

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<v Speaker 2>they voted at home. Right, So two parts of the

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<v Speaker 2>recruiting process. Part one sego recruits them and does not

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<v Speaker 2>ask them are you a swing voter? They ask who'd

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<v Speaker 2>you vote for in twenty twenty four, and then four

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<v Speaker 2>years earlier, who'd you vote for.

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<v Speaker 3>In twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 2>If they happen to say Trump and twenty four Biden

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty, then they immediately make the first cut.

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<v Speaker 3>But that's not enough for me. I have a person

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<v Speaker 3>on my team.

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<v Speaker 2>His name is Matt, and one of his jobs is

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<v Speaker 2>to personally interview every single one of these swing voters

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<v Speaker 2>before the focus group and say, okay, you said you

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<v Speaker 2>voted for Trump and twenty four, why did you vote

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<v Speaker 2>for Trump and twenty four? Why did you vote for

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<v Speaker 2>Biden in twenty twenty? And if they can't give a

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<v Speaker 2>plot pausible answer to those questions, they're not invited into

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<v Speaker 2>the group.

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<v Speaker 3>We toss them overboard.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't try because another screening question I've heard is

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<v Speaker 1>how did you vote in twenty twenty? Not who did

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<v Speaker 1>you vote for? But do you remember how you voted

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<v Speaker 1>and where you went to vote? I've heard sometimes that

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<v Speaker 1>can be an effective screener question to find out if

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<v Speaker 1>people are byes and you're not.

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<v Speaker 3>It could be, and maybe we'll start doing it now

0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:23.800
<v Speaker 3>that you suggested it.

0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think it's there's no Again, there's no

0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.560
<v Speaker 2>perfect way of doing this. And note and what happens

0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.480
<v Speaker 2>is people's memories fate. I mean, last year we did

0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:33.480
<v Speaker 2>focus groups in twenty twenty four we were asking about

0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.720
<v Speaker 2>their voting patterns in twenty sixteen and twenty twenty. You know,

0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:39.199
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember what I had for breakfast two days ago.

0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Low and well, especially with COVID brain rich, we've all

0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.719
<v Speaker 1>liked none. I can't remember anything in twenty nineteen and

0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.079
<v Speaker 1>twenty fourteen are the same year to me. Sometimes, right,

0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:50.000
<v Speaker 1>anything pre COVID is just a blur.

0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:50.960
<v Speaker 3>That's it.

0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.439
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and so again, no perfect way of doing this.

0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.360
<v Speaker 2>The thing is people, well I think labels us to

0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:58.960
<v Speaker 2>get at least. Something that I think is close to

0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.240
<v Speaker 2>the most truthful answer that's out there is the fact

0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:04.280
<v Speaker 2>that people don't know who or what category we're looking for.

0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.160
<v Speaker 2>If they knew we were looking for Trump voters, are

0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.000
<v Speaker 2>looking for consistent Democratic voters, they would answer that way

0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:12.120
<v Speaker 2>to get their one hundred and twenty five bucks, But

0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:14.120
<v Speaker 2>not knowing what we're looking for, it gives them no

0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:15.439
<v Speaker 2>reason to lie to us.

0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.360
<v Speaker 1>So one hundred and twenty five bucks a session, right,

0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.000
<v Speaker 1>and that's what the time commitment is? What three hours?

0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:21.640
<v Speaker 1>Two hours? What?

0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:24.400
<v Speaker 2>No? No, no, no, no, it's a total an hour

0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.840
<v Speaker 2>and forty five minutes, fifteen minutes sort of warm up,

0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:28.280
<v Speaker 2>and then ninety minutes of conversation.

0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Rich, you are going to have a whole bunch of

0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:32.560
<v Speaker 1>my listeners are going to really one hundred twenty five

0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.520
<v Speaker 1>bucks for less than two hours of work? Count me in.

0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:35.960
<v Speaker 3>It's a good deal.

0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's not a bad deal. Eighty bucks an hour?

0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.520
<v Speaker 1>Huh a right, not quite yeah, pretty close, No, not

0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:43.640
<v Speaker 1>quite that. What are we looking at? Sixty bucks an hour?

0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.040
<v Speaker 1>But so yeah, not been a good money. Yeah, it's good.

0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.959
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's dig in. You just did Pennsylvania and

0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:55.320
<v Speaker 1>you're just doing the seven battleground states and you're literally

0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.720
<v Speaker 1>going in a rotation every month. Yeah, it's not.

0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.360
<v Speaker 2>Quite a rotation, but it's where we were hitting each

0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:02.360
<v Speaker 2>state at least once and most of them twice in

0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:02.720
<v Speaker 2>the year.

0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:08.200
<v Speaker 1>Got it. So Michigan was the one you flagged a

0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.320
<v Speaker 1>few to me there that was fascinating. And I keep

0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.120
<v Speaker 1>talking about this one before we get into Pennsylvania, where

0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:15.800
<v Speaker 1>we're going to play some clips for you folks, so

0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:23.360
<v Speaker 1>get ready for that. The Michigan group from September. What

0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.400
<v Speaker 1>stood out to me there was there was this one

0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.960
<v Speaker 1>gentleman who was really concerned about the consolidation of power,

0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.480
<v Speaker 1>the lack of checks on Trump, all of these things,

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.120
<v Speaker 1>thought he was being power hungry and wasn't ready to

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:40.800
<v Speaker 1>change their vote. Has that been a consistent finding? Are

0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.920
<v Speaker 1>you starting to see that? Was there a consistency between

0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:45.560
<v Speaker 1>Michigan and Pennsylvania on that issue?

0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:50.079
<v Speaker 2>So what's consistent is that not every month, but I've

0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.760
<v Speaker 2>come across a number of those people who are giving

0:13:53.440 --> 0:14:01.560
<v Speaker 2>very anti Trump comments but would not take Harris if

0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:06.680
<v Speaker 2>they had to redo the vote. And it happened again

0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.000
<v Speaker 2>this month in Pennsylvania. I send you a clip on

0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 2>that where I had a woman who said she disapproved

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:14.240
<v Speaker 2>of Trump.

0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't. Actually I have it here and I want

0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.040
<v Speaker 1>to get into this a second, and let's let's you

0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.360
<v Speaker 1>dove into it, but we're going to play the clip

0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:25.800
<v Speaker 1>for folks.

0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:31.200
<v Speaker 4>I disapprove because number one, he's a felon. I don't

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 4>think a fellon should be president of the United States.

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:38.080
<v Speaker 4>He's a pathological liar. This ice thing is getting out

0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.160
<v Speaker 4>of control. If is getting out of control. The government

0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.880
<v Speaker 4>is shut down, and I don't think that he's doing

0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:49.640
<v Speaker 4>enough for the people. Prices or sky high like.

0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:56.800
<v Speaker 5>Insurance premiums are going to be going up, and I

0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.080
<v Speaker 5>think that he could do something about it.

0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Brenda, my part of my job is to play

0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:05.880
<v Speaker 2>devil's advocate. So if you love me in a second,

0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.360
<v Speaker 2>to let me ask you a question. So you mentioned

0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.640
<v Speaker 2>that he's a convicted felon. He was a convicted felon

0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.520
<v Speaker 2>before the election. What you voted for him knowing he

0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.400
<v Speaker 2>was a convicted felon? So why are you holding that

0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:17.040
<v Speaker 2>against him now?

0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:21.520
<v Speaker 6>I guess, well, he there should have been something in

0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.560
<v Speaker 6>place in the constitution. I know what you're asking me,

0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.640
<v Speaker 6>but I don't know it didn't bother me then, but

0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:31.920
<v Speaker 6>now it is because there's so many things coming out,

0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 6>like you know, with the Maxwell files and all these things.

0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.680
<v Speaker 6>So I think the Constitution should have done a better

0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.360
<v Speaker 6>job by saying number one, that he had no political

0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:47.400
<v Speaker 6>experience at all, and that the other thing is a.

0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Convicted brend I'm sorry, I'm me to be argumentative at all,

0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.960
<v Speaker 2>but he had been president for four years. He had

0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.920
<v Speaker 2>experience when you voted for him again last November.

0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:03.120
<v Speaker 7>Right, yeah, so I'm I'm I'm some a bit confused,

0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.160
<v Speaker 7>like why did you choose him over Kamala Harris?

0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:10.000
<v Speaker 5>Because I thought the heme was better that I didn't

0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 5>particularly like her, so between the two, it was like

0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:17.720
<v Speaker 5>I had to go with him because I didn't like her.

0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.720
<v Speaker 1>You insert yourself and say, you know, he was a

0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:25.080
<v Speaker 1>convicted felon before you voted for him in twenty twenty four,

0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.480
<v Speaker 1>and then Rich she goes through this Hammin and Han

0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.560
<v Speaker 1>and she basically like, I just couldn't vote for Kamala harr.

0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:38.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Now, Brenda was awesome. That was quite an exchange.

0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.760
<v Speaker 2>She really had a lot of reasons why she didn't

0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:44.800
<v Speaker 2>approve and some of them had nothing to do with

0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.680
<v Speaker 2>her vote. Because she's just complaining. Also, he didn't have experience,

0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.400
<v Speaker 2>And I said, well, he served for four years as president.

0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.840
<v Speaker 2>You can't say in twenty twenty four he didn't have experience, right.

0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.600
<v Speaker 2>So but really, what it came down to for her

0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.320
<v Speaker 2>was she couldn't vote for Harris. And what I keep

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.720
<v Speaker 2>encountering your earlier point is that there are folks who

0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:07.440
<v Speaker 2>twist themselves into pretzels to justify not choosing Harris then

0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 2>and not choosing Harris now if they could revote, they

0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:15.439
<v Speaker 2>just for a variety of reasons, cannot abide her and

0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:16.840
<v Speaker 2>will take anything from Trump.

0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.240
<v Speaker 1>Richard, Are we going to talk around the elephant in

0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:22.000
<v Speaker 1>the room? Right? I mean, it's hard not to wonder

0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:23.800
<v Speaker 1>if this had to do with her being a black woman.

0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, so you've got multiple issues there, right, You've got

0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:32.440
<v Speaker 2>woman of color, person of color, and female. So I've

0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.879
<v Speaker 2>come across in the course of the last year plus,

0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.200
<v Speaker 2>people who wouldn't vote for her because she was female,

0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:38.640
<v Speaker 2>who told me.

0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Explicitly that they wouldn't vote for her because she was.

0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.800
<v Speaker 2>Female, People who danced around the race issue. But certainly

0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.879
<v Speaker 2>I suspected from the comments that they that was the reason.

0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's funny like, look, Brenda's it's one of those.

0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 1>She says, I thought he was better than I didn't

0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.239
<v Speaker 1>particularly like her, so between the two, it was like

0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:00.960
<v Speaker 1>I had to go with it because they didn't like

0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:05.159
<v Speaker 1>her like she doesn't. She can't can't articulate why she

0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:05.800
<v Speaker 1>doesn't like her.

0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and keep in mind, Brent is a woman of color,

0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.840
<v Speaker 2>so super super interesting, and I've got I.

0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:13.480
<v Speaker 1>Don't know what to make of that. That's fair.

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, but I can tell you what to make

0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.200
<v Speaker 2>of it. To me, it's fractly pretty straightforward. For some

0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.439
<v Speaker 2>of these folks I spoke to, they are either deeply

0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.359
<v Speaker 2>religious or deeply conservative socially, they think that men should

0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:28.320
<v Speaker 2>be in control, men should be in power, women should not, and.

0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:31.040
<v Speaker 1>Biden was somebody they could vote for. But Clinton and

0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Harris may have been literally simply their gender may have

0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:36.359
<v Speaker 1>been the disqualifier for these voters.

0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:38.800
<v Speaker 2>It would have been a large part of the consideration,

0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.600
<v Speaker 2>along with By the way, a lot of these folks

0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:43.919
<v Speaker 2>thought that Biden failed and she was part of a

0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.600
<v Speaker 2>failed administration, and they didn't want to have their fingerprints

0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:47.960
<v Speaker 2>on that for the next four years.

0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.959
<v Speaker 1>There's a reason results matter more than promises. Just like.

0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.080
<v Speaker 1>There's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury

0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.880
<v Speaker 1>law firm. For the last thirty five years, they've recovered

0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.120
<v Speaker 1>twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients.

0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.320
<v Speaker 1>It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.400
<v Speaker 1>just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.560
<v Speaker 1>Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:16.760
<v Speaker 1>in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.280
<v Speaker 1>which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:23.600
<v Speaker 1>insurance company originally offered. That original offer six hundred and

0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.600
<v Speaker 1>fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred and fifty

0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:28.840
<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars. So with more than one thousand lawyers across

0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.320
<v Speaker 1>the country, they know how to deliver for everyday people.

0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.080
<v Speaker 1>If you're injured, you need a lawyer, You need somebody

0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.680
<v Speaker 1>to get your back. Check out for Thepeople dot com,

0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:41.879
<v Speaker 1>Slash podcast, or dial pound Law Pound five to nine

0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:45.560
<v Speaker 1>law on your cell phone. And remember all law firms

0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:47.440
<v Speaker 1>are not the same, So check out Morgan and Morgan.

0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:53.080
<v Speaker 1>Their fee is free unless they win. I look at

0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.720
<v Speaker 1>the twenty twenty four campaign. You know and there's different

0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.960
<v Speaker 1>ways people want to interpret it. I was actually relieved

0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.879
<v Speaker 1>to know that voting was normal. It is normal to

0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:07.199
<v Speaker 1>me that people simply vote against and vote on the

0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:09.480
<v Speaker 1>economy like that has been you know, That's how you

0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.879
<v Speaker 1>and I were professionally raised in politics, right Rich, Like

0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.280
<v Speaker 1>that is how it worked in the eighties and the

0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.320
<v Speaker 1>nineties and the odds, Like, that's just how it worked.

0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.080
<v Speaker 1>Only recently have we made all these other issues in there,

0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:24.280
<v Speaker 1>and you're like, oh, wait a minute, post COVID voters

0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:29.160
<v Speaker 1>are starting to behave we're more normally again. It's about finances,

0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:31.240
<v Speaker 1>it's about competency.

0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:33.520
<v Speaker 3>It is and I will say on whether you have

0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:34.600
<v Speaker 3>E clip on this also.

0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:38.320
<v Speaker 2>But one thing that we uncover month after month is

0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:42.120
<v Speaker 2>that the dissatisfaction with Trump among these Biden to Trump voters,

0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.959
<v Speaker 2>among those who are dissatisfied with him now, it's mostly tied,

0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:48.879
<v Speaker 2>not exclusively, but mostly tied to the state of the

0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.240
<v Speaker 2>economy and how they're struggling, and how they see a

0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:55.760
<v Speaker 2>billionaire who doesn't need to have to worry about these things,

0:20:55.960 --> 0:21:00.879
<v Speaker 2>not addressing the concern that most matters to them.

0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:05.199
<v Speaker 8>Doesn't affect him. Simple he's not feeling the effects of it.

0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.600
<v Speaker 8>So when you're not directly impacted by something, even if

0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:12.240
<v Speaker 8>it's going on around you, you tend not to worry

0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.520
<v Speaker 8>about it. He's too busy playing hopscotch in Russia. I

0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:17.840
<v Speaker 8>don't know, he's just not worried about anything over here.

0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.080
<v Speaker 9>Well, I think that he's more focused overall on the

0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:26.240
<v Speaker 9>economy as a whole. He's focused on using tariffs and

0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:29.720
<v Speaker 9>carpet bombing with tariffs to try to force deals, which

0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:35.679
<v Speaker 9>he hopes eventually will address inflation. But it's not he

0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:40.000
<v Speaker 9>thinks he's going to bring jobs back by forcing these tariffs.

0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:44.160
<v Speaker 9>It's almost an unforced error. If he was focusing on

0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:47.440
<v Speaker 9>one place than another with his tariffs, it wouldn't hurt

0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 9>as bad. But he just has to hit everybody all once,

0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:54.360
<v Speaker 9>all at the same time with them, and it's causing

0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:57.720
<v Speaker 9>mayhem with prices of goods and services overall.

0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:01.720
<v Speaker 1>What I find remarkable is how much they're following the

0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:05.159
<v Speaker 1>day to day on tariffs like these. Weren't uninformed voters

0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.199
<v Speaker 1>about the current state of the economy, which if I

0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:09.679
<v Speaker 1>were in the Trump white House that would really make

0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:13.040
<v Speaker 1>me nervous. They're following this tariff stuff fairly closely.

0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:17.200
<v Speaker 2>So one of the great fascinations I have with the

0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:19.760
<v Speaker 2>project now compared to a year ago when I was

0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:23.000
<v Speaker 2>doing then Trump to Biden voters as supposed to now

0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Biden to Trump voters, was that I would ask Biden

0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:30.720
<v Speaker 2>voters people vote for him in twenty twenty, please name,

0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:35.080
<v Speaker 2>if you could, one thing that President Biden has achieved

0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:38.760
<v Speaker 2>in office that he himself would call an achievement. So

0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:40.920
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want a snarky answer like, oh, he achieved

0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:44.240
<v Speaker 2>high inflation. I didn't want so, okay, So the people

0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:47.320
<v Speaker 2>would stop, and about roughly half each time I asked

0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:50.400
<v Speaker 2>it could not name a single thing that Biden had

0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:53.080
<v Speaker 2>achieved in office that he himself would call an achievement.

0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:57.360
<v Speaker 2>And among those who could name something, way disproportionately it

0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.960
<v Speaker 2>was the same topic student loan relief.

0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:04.840
<v Speaker 1>No kidding, now, infrastructure, which was actually probably the best

0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:05.760
<v Speaker 1>to achievement he got.

0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:10.080
<v Speaker 2>You know, chuck It says, though infrastructure never happened, chips

0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:14.680
<v Speaker 2>never happened, Relief Act never happened, Inflation Reduction Act never happened.

0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:17.080
<v Speaker 2>So for them, I want you imagine the mind of

0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:19.320
<v Speaker 2>a swing voter. Now I'll get to the Trump point

0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:22.560
<v Speaker 2>about it in a second. The comparison. So you're thinking

0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:26.679
<v Speaker 2>about President Biden, you're thinking, okay, so he's basically slept

0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:29.880
<v Speaker 2>through the last three and a half years. One time

0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:32.200
<v Speaker 2>they came to him with an executive order, he signed

0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:35.640
<v Speaker 2>it trying to relieve student debt, and that's all he did.

0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:37.920
<v Speaker 3>And that's your conception of him.

0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:42.280
<v Speaker 2>Trump comes in and suddenly he's in the news constantly,

0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:45.560
<v Speaker 2>He's in your social media feed constantly, and if you

0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:49.760
<v Speaker 2>have voted for him, you're like, finally someone is doing something.

0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:55.439
<v Speaker 2>So it's the bias toward action versus the disapproval of inertia,

0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:58.280
<v Speaker 2>which is what they associated with Biden. And I can't

0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:00.879
<v Speaker 2>tell you how many times this year I've heard about Trump.

0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:04.439
<v Speaker 2>At least he's doing something. Whether they like it or not.

0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:06.960
<v Speaker 2>They still like the fact that there's action as opposed

0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:08.359
<v Speaker 2>to Biden's inertia.

0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:11.680
<v Speaker 1>No, I've always said that what's interesting, there's always motion

0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:16.399
<v Speaker 1>with Trump. The question is is their movement. Like I

0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:20.080
<v Speaker 1>have always said, I feel like life with Trump, covering

0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.159
<v Speaker 1>him is literally like being on a roller coaster because

0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:24.720
<v Speaker 1>you get on and off in the same place.

0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:30.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, but that's from your perspective, getting as close to

0:24:30.240 --> 0:24:31.240
<v Speaker 2>the process as you are.

0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:33.760
<v Speaker 3>You see that. I think that nuance is lost with

0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:34.960
<v Speaker 3>the folks that I'm talking to.

0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:40.359
<v Speaker 2>So, you know, Trump's his flair for the dramatic. His

0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:43.560
<v Speaker 2>ability to sign his name in huge bowld letters with

0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:46.840
<v Speaker 2>a big sharpie and to hold it up. That looks

0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:50.199
<v Speaker 2>like action to someone who didn't happen to see Biden

0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:54.359
<v Speaker 2>signing these multi trillion dollar bills into law, and Trump's

0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:56.440
<v Speaker 2>doing it repeatedly. The image of him in the Oval

0:24:56.480 --> 0:24:59.159
<v Speaker 2>Office is him holding up some leather binder with his

0:24:59.240 --> 0:25:01.639
<v Speaker 2>big signature on it and then boasting about it.

0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:04.399
<v Speaker 3>And for people I talked to, that's action.

0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:08.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's interesting Rich to take a step back here.

0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:12.879
<v Speaker 1>Biden really was an outlier of the last thirty years

0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:16.119
<v Speaker 1>in how they conducted that presidency. When I think about

0:25:16.119 --> 0:25:19.000
<v Speaker 1>the image management of the you know, Michael Deaver and

0:25:19.119 --> 0:25:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Ronald Reagan right when when I was you know, and

0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:26.160
<v Speaker 1>how you know, I basically we in college we studied

0:25:26.160 --> 0:25:30.000
<v Speaker 1>Michael Deaver as image management in my political science classes.

0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:33.919
<v Speaker 1>Bill Clinton was clearly always you know, some you know

0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:37.040
<v Speaker 1>people say he was. We would borrow some of Reagan's

0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:40.439
<v Speaker 1>gestures and stuff, and he had he was always performing

0:25:41.440 --> 0:25:44.080
<v Speaker 1>George W. Bush. They were very image conscious. It ended

0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:46.240
<v Speaker 1>up biting them in the butt with the mission accomplished

0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:48.440
<v Speaker 1>thing at one point. But again, it was about the visuals.

0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:51.920
<v Speaker 1>It was about always, you know, showing showing him and

0:25:52.320 --> 0:25:53.959
<v Speaker 1>what they wanted to put him in the best possible light.

0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:58.120
<v Speaker 1>Barack Obama was really very much engaged that way. Trump too.

0:25:59.280 --> 0:26:02.560
<v Speaker 1>Biden was the out liar. And I guess it's a

0:26:02.560 --> 0:26:07.000
<v Speaker 1>combination of old COVID, right, you sort of put all

0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:12.280
<v Speaker 1>those together, and you know, I wonder if if the

0:26:12.320 --> 0:26:15.600
<v Speaker 1>Democrats are overrating their problems. Basically, they just had a

0:26:15.640 --> 0:26:19.240
<v Speaker 1>nominee that just wasn't built for the modern media age.

0:26:19.680 --> 0:26:21.919
<v Speaker 2>Now, to me, he dealt with the media the way

0:26:22.040 --> 0:26:25.480
<v Speaker 2>Jerry Ford dealt with the media, which is seriously, I mean.

0:26:25.400 --> 0:26:28.480
<v Speaker 1>It was make that a Jerry Ford reference. You're probably losing, right.

0:26:28.400 --> 0:26:29.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly that.

0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:32.240
<v Speaker 2>I'll sign a bill, have a ceremonial, We'll invite the

0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:36.359
<v Speaker 2>three major networks and everybody will know about it, and

0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:39.720
<v Speaker 2>lo and behold, they didn't. And I have a whole

0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:42.760
<v Speaker 2>montage I can show it to you someday of swing

0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:45.920
<v Speaker 2>voters in during Biden's term having no idea what was

0:26:45.960 --> 0:26:48.960
<v Speaker 2>going on in terms of process in Washington, achievements. Did

0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:51.879
<v Speaker 2>no idea he worked on climate change, no idea about infrastructure, No,

0:26:52.119 --> 0:26:54.400
<v Speaker 2>didn't know it. Who served on the January sixth committee.

0:26:54.400 --> 0:26:56.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, just go down the list of stuff they

0:26:56.560 --> 0:26:59.560
<v Speaker 2>just didn't pay attention to. And so the challenge it's

0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:03.440
<v Speaker 2>really obviously we're dancing around the term. It's the attention

0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:07.520
<v Speaker 2>economy we're living in that Trump has mastered it. Biden

0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:09.760
<v Speaker 2>never mastered it. And I would argue if the Democrats

0:27:09.800 --> 0:27:12.240
<v Speaker 2>have any chance of winning anything again, they have to

0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:14.400
<v Speaker 2>learn how to master it, because that's the world we're

0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:17.359
<v Speaker 2>living in where people are distracted constantly and Trump manages

0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:19.359
<v Speaker 2>to break through it, and you've got to.

0:27:19.400 --> 0:27:21.600
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's interesting because I'll have my friends in

0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:23.480
<v Speaker 1>the left say it's you. People in the media didn't

0:27:23.480 --> 0:27:26.399
<v Speaker 1>do enough to showcase Biden, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

0:27:26.840 --> 0:27:30.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, you know, if you actually do all your

0:27:30.200 --> 0:27:32.640
<v Speaker 1>Google searching up, there's plenty of coverage of everything you did.

0:27:33.880 --> 0:27:38.000
<v Speaker 1>What was missing was Biden trying to amplify the coverage himself.

0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:40.679
<v Speaker 1>And I think, what you know, what just about everybody

0:27:40.680 --> 0:27:43.520
<v Speaker 1>in corporate America is doing I assume you have a

0:27:43.560 --> 0:27:46.359
<v Speaker 1>for profit client list these days who are thinking the

0:27:46.400 --> 0:27:48.640
<v Speaker 1>same thing, which is you've got to take it. You've

0:27:48.640 --> 0:27:50.960
<v Speaker 1>got to do your own communicating. You can't rely on

0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:55.680
<v Speaker 1>legacy media, free media anymore. And if you are, you're losing, right,

0:27:55.800 --> 0:27:58.600
<v Speaker 1>anybody that does that, whether you're a politician or your

0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:01.760
<v Speaker 1>Coca cola right, you've got you know, Bud Light found

0:28:01.760 --> 0:28:04.680
<v Speaker 1>out the hard way. Right, You've got to be take advance.

0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:09.159
<v Speaker 1>You've got to proactively do your own communicating. This is

0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:12.080
<v Speaker 1>not all the media's job, is this or this? We're

0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:15.720
<v Speaker 1>all the media now, including the communications shop of the

0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:18.440
<v Speaker 1>White House. And I think in that this is where

0:28:18.440 --> 0:28:22.080
<v Speaker 1>Biden's entire operation was a relic. Yeah.

0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:25.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you're personally way more entrepreneurial about this than

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:28.359
<v Speaker 2>the entire White House was in the last administration. So

0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:31.439
<v Speaker 2>I mean that's the difference, and I think people have

0:28:31.480 --> 0:28:35.000
<v Speaker 2>to understand that. And the thing was a lot of

0:28:35.040 --> 0:28:37.280
<v Speaker 2>people follow the Swing Voter project, people on the left,

0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:39.520
<v Speaker 2>people on the right. There are folks in the Biden

0:28:39.560 --> 0:28:42.240
<v Speaker 2>administration I know paid attention to what I was producing

0:28:42.240 --> 0:28:45.040
<v Speaker 2>each month, and it was abundantly clear from these highlights

0:28:45.080 --> 0:28:47.800
<v Speaker 2>videos I put out that the message wasn't getting through,

0:28:47.840 --> 0:28:50.320
<v Speaker 2>and I was always mystified by this. Now it wasn't

0:28:50.360 --> 0:28:52.160
<v Speaker 2>just me. Obviously, I'm just one guy out there. I'm

0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 2>not tied to the administration. I mean, Republicans like what

0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:58.960
<v Speaker 2>I do too, But my god, like, really, month after month,

0:28:58.960 --> 0:29:01.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm discovering that no one knows about your multi trillion

0:29:01.560 --> 0:29:05.440
<v Speaker 2>dollar legislative achievements. How is that not something that you're

0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:09.440
<v Speaker 2>solving for? I was, again, just a question I'm asking.

0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:10.200
<v Speaker 2>Let's put it that.

0:29:10.120 --> 0:29:12.280
<v Speaker 1>Way, all right. I want to do another excerpt here

0:29:12.360 --> 0:29:15.600
<v Speaker 1>because this is a little counterintuitive to what I think

0:29:15.640 --> 0:29:19.680
<v Speaker 1>conventional wisdom is these days, is whether Trump is exercising

0:29:19.760 --> 0:29:23.440
<v Speaker 1>more executive power trying to consolidate the presidency. We've had

0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:27.120
<v Speaker 1>the no King's rally, right, is this penetrating? Is this

0:29:27.280 --> 0:29:30.440
<v Speaker 1>an issue? So let's play this exchange. You have Kaylana

0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:35.360
<v Speaker 1>h Anthony D Jim b All responding here on this

0:29:35.480 --> 0:29:38.640
<v Speaker 1>question of the simple question you asked, was you know,

0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:42.400
<v Speaker 1>do you see Trump exercising more power than Biden, Obama

0:29:42.680 --> 0:29:45.480
<v Speaker 1>and Bush. So let's let's sen know those answers.

0:29:45.720 --> 0:29:52.880
<v Speaker 10>I mean, they've all deported people, They've all, you know,

0:29:53.040 --> 0:29:57.360
<v Speaker 10>done different things. But I mean, maybe not in the

0:29:57.400 --> 0:30:01.240
<v Speaker 10>same towards the same topic, but I think generally as

0:30:01.280 --> 0:30:07.200
<v Speaker 10>a whole, Dave, he's about the same with executive power.

0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:10.000
<v Speaker 3>Okay, Anthony, what about you?

0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:13.920
<v Speaker 11>Similar to what was said that, I think that, but

0:30:14.080 --> 0:30:17.680
<v Speaker 11>being in the president, he has ultimate authority similar to

0:30:17.680 --> 0:30:19.480
<v Speaker 11>what the other roles were as well with the other

0:30:20.000 --> 0:30:23.680
<v Speaker 11>previous presidents. Maybe he's more vocal saying it, but I

0:30:23.720 --> 0:30:26.280
<v Speaker 11>think I don't see any difference with what they were

0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:27.680
<v Speaker 11>able to do and what they've done.

0:30:27.880 --> 0:30:31.239
<v Speaker 12>Barack Obama and Joe Biden had more executive orders than

0:30:31.280 --> 0:30:34.200
<v Speaker 12>any president by numbers.

0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:36.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry.

0:30:36.760 --> 0:30:41.360
<v Speaker 12>George Bush and Barack Obama had more executive orders than

0:30:41.400 --> 0:30:45.320
<v Speaker 12>anyone they had. I mean, George Bush used the nine

0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:50.320
<v Speaker 12>to eleven bombing to push consolidate power in the presidency.

0:30:50.960 --> 0:30:54.440
<v Speaker 12>Barack Obama did it because he had pretty much everyone

0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:59.760
<v Speaker 12>behind him for whatever he did. So those two definitely,

0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:03.120
<v Speaker 12>if not more the same amount.

0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:06.240
<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you what's interesting here, Rich, is that they

0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:10.600
<v Speaker 1>they all think it's no different than Obama or Bush

0:31:10.640 --> 0:31:13.480
<v Speaker 1>in particular, and even Biden to an extent. Yeah.

0:31:13.480 --> 0:31:16.000
<v Speaker 2>So the thirteen people I had in Pennsylvania, about half

0:31:16.040 --> 0:31:18.360
<v Speaker 2>of them thought he was exercising more, but about half

0:31:18.360 --> 0:31:20.040
<v Speaker 2>of them thought it was the same amount as these

0:31:20.040 --> 0:31:25.880
<v Speaker 2>prior presidents. And as just noted in these clips, they're

0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:30.320
<v Speaker 2>basically saying, well, you know, Obama did this executive thing,

0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:36.680
<v Speaker 2>and Biden did this thing, and they're comparing what they

0:31:36.760 --> 0:31:39.680
<v Speaker 2>see Trump doing to what these prior presidents doing, and

0:31:39.720 --> 0:31:42.760
<v Speaker 2>they don't detect a qualitative difference. And to me, that

0:31:42.920 --> 0:31:45.560
<v Speaker 2>was so fascinating is that the media is constantly talking

0:31:45.560 --> 0:31:49.080
<v Speaker 2>about how Trump is breaking all these norms, but they

0:31:49.080 --> 0:31:51.080
<v Speaker 2>don't see that. They see Trump as just being part

0:31:51.120 --> 0:31:53.680
<v Speaker 2>of a continualum of presidents doing things they shouldn't be doing.

0:31:54.240 --> 0:31:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Let me let me posit something here for you to

0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:01.680
<v Speaker 1>take in, which is whether it was amplify. Fine, I'm

0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:04.440
<v Speaker 1>going to connect something here from the one thing Biden

0:32:05.480 --> 0:32:07.560
<v Speaker 1>that you said voters took away from what they thought

0:32:07.560 --> 0:32:10.920
<v Speaker 1>Biden accomplished with student loans. What's interesting about that topic

0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:13.240
<v Speaker 1>that happens to be a topic that the right also

0:32:13.360 --> 0:32:17.120
<v Speaker 1>amplified when he did it. When I look at executive

0:32:17.160 --> 0:32:21.800
<v Speaker 1>power with Bush, Obama and Biden, and Trump, the party

0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:25.160
<v Speaker 1>out of power would amplify anytime that they thought they

0:32:25.160 --> 0:32:30.120
<v Speaker 1>were over using their power. Bush with FISA and all

0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:34.040
<v Speaker 1>of that, Obama with his executive orders, Biden with what

0:32:34.160 --> 0:32:38.720
<v Speaker 1>he did. You know, it seems as if the only

0:32:38.760 --> 0:32:42.160
<v Speaker 1>way these swing voters actually get an idea of what

0:32:42.200 --> 0:32:45.320
<v Speaker 1>a president does is not only how they amplify it,

0:32:45.360 --> 0:32:49.120
<v Speaker 1>but how the opponents amplify it. And this strikes me

0:32:50.040 --> 0:32:54.360
<v Speaker 1>as while maybe we as sort of more neutral Washington

0:32:54.960 --> 0:32:58.480
<v Speaker 1>pros and understand how executive power works, and yeah, Trump

0:32:58.560 --> 0:33:02.720
<v Speaker 1>really is consolidating power way we haven't seen before, because

0:33:02.760 --> 0:33:05.760
<v Speaker 1>that accusation has been out there about, you know, from

0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:08.080
<v Speaker 1>the right on Obama and Biden and from the left

0:33:08.120 --> 0:33:11.720
<v Speaker 1>on Bush and Trump. It is not unusual to the

0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:13.680
<v Speaker 1>average swing voter, is it.

0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:15.760
<v Speaker 3>It's not. I think that's a brilliant observation.

0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:23.360
<v Speaker 2>And having your actions defined by your enemies means that

0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:26.520
<v Speaker 2>you don't necessarily have control of that narrative. It's obviously

0:33:26.520 --> 0:33:29.080
<v Speaker 2>it's coming from the people who disagree with you. And

0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:31.760
<v Speaker 2>it could easily be the case that the people who

0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:36.400
<v Speaker 2>I talk to who are unhappy with Trump's executive actions

0:33:36.440 --> 0:33:39.000
<v Speaker 2>are getting their news from sources that are amplifying that

0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:40.960
<v Speaker 2>in a way that the people who aren't bothered by

0:33:41.000 --> 0:33:41.560
<v Speaker 2>his actions.

0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:48.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, reaction are you seeing. Is that a pattern

0:33:48.560 --> 0:33:52.560
<v Speaker 1>that you noticed when you started this back in twenty nineteen,

0:33:52.600 --> 0:33:56.400
<v Speaker 1>that in some way what breaks through is not just

0:33:56.480 --> 0:34:00.320
<v Speaker 1>what is what the opponents are also talking about, that

0:34:00.320 --> 0:34:03.240
<v Speaker 1>that's ultimately what breaks through is when you actually engage,

0:34:03.240 --> 0:34:06.200
<v Speaker 1>when you get both positive coverage and negative coverage.

0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:10.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's hard to chuck because the the I ask

0:34:10.080 --> 0:34:13.680
<v Speaker 2>people every month where they get their news from traditional media,

0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:16.919
<v Speaker 2>whether they get it from social media, and this splintering

0:34:17.440 --> 0:34:19.279
<v Speaker 2>and the splintering has been around since the beginning of

0:34:19.280 --> 0:34:21.360
<v Speaker 2>the project. People get their news from a variety of sources,

0:34:21.400 --> 0:34:23.000
<v Speaker 2>but more and more of them are telling me they're

0:34:23.000 --> 0:34:26.719
<v Speaker 2>getting in the news mostly or exclusively from social media sources.

0:34:27.320 --> 0:34:31.960
<v Speaker 2>So I'm finding that the universe that they're in is

0:34:32.000 --> 0:34:34.239
<v Speaker 2>just totally different from the news consumption that you may

0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:38.560
<v Speaker 2>have or I may have. And the idea that someone

0:34:38.680 --> 0:34:43.640
<v Speaker 2>never looks at a traditional media outlet ever and they

0:34:43.640 --> 0:34:45.160
<v Speaker 2>get their news from TikTok.

0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:49.560
<v Speaker 3>If a war broke out, you know, my first inclination.

0:34:49.160 --> 0:34:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Would be, let's go and see how NBC or CNN

0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:59.440
<v Speaker 2>is covering it or Fox. Why How could you just

0:34:59.440 --> 0:35:02.760
<v Speaker 2>be looking at TikTok videos? If the United States is attacked.

0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:05.640
<v Speaker 1>Well, let me reassure you about something. Actually, I was

0:35:05.680 --> 0:35:08.520
<v Speaker 1>involved with a conference called Trust in Media and where

0:35:08.560 --> 0:35:11.800
<v Speaker 1>it's more about trust in the entire information ecosystem, working

0:35:11.840 --> 0:35:14.200
<v Speaker 1>with a group of folks who come actually from the

0:35:14.239 --> 0:35:17.040
<v Speaker 1>national security space, people that worked in the first Trump term,

0:35:17.040 --> 0:35:20.719
<v Speaker 1>who were worried about the health of the information ecosystem. Right,

0:35:20.760 --> 0:35:23.920
<v Speaker 1>this is bigger than just journalism. And so we had

0:35:23.920 --> 0:35:26.640
<v Speaker 1>a presentation John Delavope, who's done a lot of gen

0:35:26.760 --> 0:35:31.040
<v Speaker 1>Z and millennial work, one of the notations and Edelman

0:35:31.080 --> 0:35:34.760
<v Speaker 1>also did a presentation that when there is breaking news,

0:35:34.960 --> 0:35:38.520
<v Speaker 1>when there is a huge story, that there is still

0:35:38.520 --> 0:35:41.760
<v Speaker 1>a desire to go to a main, a legacy news source,

0:35:42.280 --> 0:35:46.640
<v Speaker 1>and that even among gen Z or millennials, the only

0:35:47.040 --> 0:35:49.520
<v Speaker 1>almost the one time that they will check into those

0:35:49.560 --> 0:35:54.080
<v Speaker 1>sources is if something big is happening, right, a big moment,

0:35:54.120 --> 0:35:56.000
<v Speaker 1>they think, oh, I better go check that out. Right,

0:35:56.000 --> 0:35:59.600
<v Speaker 1>there's a shooting or there's a storm or something like that.

0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:04.239
<v Speaker 1>So it's not all TikTok yet, right, I mean I was.

0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:10.440
<v Speaker 1>I was oddly reassured that younger folks, who are almost

0:36:10.840 --> 0:36:14.680
<v Speaker 1>mostly getting their stuff and essentially curating their own media,

0:36:14.719 --> 0:36:16.799
<v Speaker 1>is what I call it it's self curation. Some of

0:36:16.840 --> 0:36:19.799
<v Speaker 1>it is legacy, but they don't know that it's legacy. Right.

0:36:19.960 --> 0:36:23.480
<v Speaker 1>They follow somebody specifically who just happens to work at

0:36:23.480 --> 0:36:27.560
<v Speaker 1>a legacy media company. Right. But I was I thought

0:36:27.640 --> 0:36:30.400
<v Speaker 1>that was interesting, So I take your point there. But

0:36:30.480 --> 0:36:33.400
<v Speaker 1>it does feel like when the chips are down, they think, oh,

0:36:33.719 --> 0:36:36.680
<v Speaker 1>those big companies have the resources to do live reporting

0:36:36.800 --> 0:36:39.120
<v Speaker 1>right now. Right, there's still that perception out there.

0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:40.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I guess I question is how often does that

0:36:40.880 --> 0:36:43.520
<v Speaker 2>happen given their lack of knowledge of all the things

0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:45.800
<v Speaker 2>that Biden did for four years that were widely covered

0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:50.120
<v Speaker 2>when they happened. That's why, and particularly Chuck, the things

0:36:50.120 --> 0:36:53.560
<v Speaker 2>that get missed by my swing voters are process related things,

0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:57.880
<v Speaker 2>legislation getting passed in Congress, things being signed into law,

0:36:58.160 --> 0:36:59.800
<v Speaker 2>and emotional hearings.

0:36:59.480 --> 0:37:01.960
<v Speaker 3>That's the they never happened for most of these folks.

0:37:02.200 --> 0:37:04.719
<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, here's I'm gonna the last clip we're

0:37:04.719 --> 0:37:08.799
<v Speaker 1>going to play here is as a this is this

0:37:08.920 --> 0:37:11.400
<v Speaker 1>to me is the probably one of your favorite questions

0:37:11.440 --> 0:37:15.040
<v Speaker 1>because you just find out what is breaking through? You

0:37:15.080 --> 0:37:17.600
<v Speaker 1>asked us each month, what question would you ask President

0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:21.040
<v Speaker 1>Trump if you could ask him anything. So let's play

0:37:22.000 --> 0:37:23.360
<v Speaker 1>all the responses here.

0:37:23.520 --> 0:37:26.359
<v Speaker 4>But ask why so many lies.

0:37:28.000 --> 0:37:28.720
<v Speaker 10>About everything?

0:37:29.000 --> 0:37:31.279
<v Speaker 4>I would ask him what he's doing for the economy.

0:37:31.320 --> 0:37:34.759
<v Speaker 2>That was a big part of his campaign promise, and

0:37:34.840 --> 0:37:37.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't see any difference steam files.

0:37:38.719 --> 0:37:39.799
<v Speaker 3>What about the Epstein files?

0:37:39.840 --> 0:37:40.400
<v Speaker 1>Would you want to know?

0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:42.160
<v Speaker 4>Why aren't they released?

0:37:42.719 --> 0:37:45.120
<v Speaker 9>I might ask him how much controled donors have over

0:37:45.160 --> 0:37:46.080
<v Speaker 9>his decisions.

0:37:46.400 --> 0:37:49.399
<v Speaker 4>I'd ask him how he managed to get the hostages

0:37:49.440 --> 0:37:51.080
<v Speaker 4>out of Gaza, But ask.

0:37:51.440 --> 0:37:55.120
<v Speaker 11>What he thinks is the biggest threat to the United

0:37:55.120 --> 0:37:55.799
<v Speaker 11>States right now?

0:37:56.239 --> 0:37:57.719
<v Speaker 1>Why do you love Russia so much?

0:37:58.680 --> 0:38:01.080
<v Speaker 4>Are you in the Epstein as I.

0:38:01.000 --> 0:38:06.319
<v Speaker 1>Would ask if you would handle January sixth different if

0:38:06.320 --> 0:38:07.120
<v Speaker 1>he had the chance.

0:38:06.960 --> 0:38:09.319
<v Speaker 3>To, do you really care about people and everything we're

0:38:09.320 --> 0:38:09.840
<v Speaker 3>going through?

0:38:10.440 --> 0:38:13.960
<v Speaker 12>Will he ever learn to not attack every person that

0:38:14.040 --> 0:38:15.120
<v Speaker 12>disagrees with him?

0:38:15.640 --> 0:38:19.759
<v Speaker 8>Is there a way to benefit financially him and his

0:38:19.960 --> 0:38:22.600
<v Speaker 8>billionaire buddies without attacking the poor?

0:38:23.560 --> 0:38:31.200
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's see Epstein shows up once twice, three times?

0:38:33.960 --> 0:38:38.920
<v Speaker 1>That's interesting? What breaks through that Epstein broke through a

0:38:38.920 --> 0:38:43.600
<v Speaker 1>little bit of Russia campaign donor stuff? What shocked you?

0:38:44.440 --> 0:38:46.400
<v Speaker 2>So here's what I take away from this exercise. I've

0:38:46.400 --> 0:38:48.799
<v Speaker 2>been this has been happening month over a month. So

0:38:48.920 --> 0:38:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I in this group, I think I mentioned six basically

0:38:52.520 --> 0:38:55.600
<v Speaker 2>approve of Trump's actions in office, seven disapproved.

0:38:56.040 --> 0:38:59.560
<v Speaker 1>It's about the ratio we're on, right, It's about that right,

0:38:59.600 --> 0:39:02.920
<v Speaker 1>It's like a forty five fifty five ratio, depending on

0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:04.560
<v Speaker 1>the all you use exactly.

0:39:04.680 --> 0:39:09.040
<v Speaker 2>But among the people who approve of what he is doing,

0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:13.200
<v Speaker 2>they still made a number of very negative comments or

0:39:13.239 --> 0:39:15.680
<v Speaker 2>ask negative questions when I asked them to come up

0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:18.560
<v Speaker 2>with a question for the president, so they could have

0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:21.280
<v Speaker 2>asked questions like what makes you such an effective leader?

0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Or how did you broker such an amazing deal in

0:39:24.440 --> 0:39:27.200
<v Speaker 2>the Middle East? Go down all these lists of questions

0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:29.880
<v Speaker 2>that would have been indicative of an appreciation.

0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:32.200
<v Speaker 1>And advarratious one. I mean it was one, Carolyn m

0:39:32.239 --> 0:39:33.920
<v Speaker 1>I'd ask him how he managed to get the hostages

0:39:33.920 --> 0:39:37.640
<v Speaker 1>out of Gaza. Okay, feels like a supportive type of question.

0:39:37.920 --> 0:39:41.400
<v Speaker 2>That's one, But the rest of them are all basically negative.

0:39:41.800 --> 0:39:44.680
<v Speaker 2>And to me, what it suggests is that while they

0:39:44.800 --> 0:39:47.800
<v Speaker 2>approve of his performance in office, among those who approve,

0:39:48.080 --> 0:39:54.160
<v Speaker 2>there are still very significant lingering doubts. And it's it's

0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:56.680
<v Speaker 2>almost like making a bee line to their psyche when

0:39:56.680 --> 0:39:59.479
<v Speaker 2>it comes to how they feel about Trump, What question

0:39:59.520 --> 0:40:00.600
<v Speaker 2>would you ask skip.

0:40:05.560 --> 0:40:07.879
<v Speaker 1>If I were a democratic strategy here trying to figure

0:40:07.880 --> 0:40:09.759
<v Speaker 1>out how do I win over these voters. I sit

0:40:09.840 --> 0:40:12.680
<v Speaker 1>here and I look at these questions, and I'm sure,

0:40:12.920 --> 0:40:14.239
<v Speaker 1>I think I can do this with every one of

0:40:14.239 --> 0:40:16.480
<v Speaker 1>your proofs, and I'd be like, oh my god. They

0:40:16.520 --> 0:40:19.200
<v Speaker 1>know everything I would use against him. They know he's

0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:20.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of in the hands of Russia, they know he's

0:40:20.960 --> 0:40:23.279
<v Speaker 1>kind of in the hands of big rich people. They

0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:25.520
<v Speaker 1>know all these things, and they vote for him. Anyway,

0:40:26.360 --> 0:40:29.440
<v Speaker 1>What would you tell a client that thought, well, these

0:40:29.440 --> 0:40:31.640
<v Speaker 1>people must not know these things, and it's like, oh, no,

0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:35.080
<v Speaker 1>they do, and they don't approve of them either, but

0:40:35.120 --> 0:40:38.640
<v Speaker 1>they still voted for him. What do you take away

0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:39.000
<v Speaker 1>from that?

0:40:41.880 --> 0:40:46.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, what I take away from that is that a

0:40:46.480 --> 0:40:51.279
<v Speaker 2>lot of their focus is on things that they say

0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:54.680
<v Speaker 2>when you ask them about it matters somewhat, but don't

0:40:54.719 --> 0:40:57.680
<v Speaker 2>get to the nub of what really is bothering them

0:40:57.880 --> 0:41:01.000
<v Speaker 2>and what is bothering them the most right now, if

0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:03.960
<v Speaker 2>I had to broadly generalize among those people who are struggling,

0:41:04.600 --> 0:41:09.839
<v Speaker 2>is his performance on the economy and the idea that

0:41:09.880 --> 0:41:12.959
<v Speaker 2>he is a billionaire who promised to get inflation under

0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:17.120
<v Speaker 2>control and they're still struggling to make ends meet. Go

0:41:17.200 --> 0:41:18.680
<v Speaker 2>back to the thing we were talking about earlier on

0:41:18.719 --> 0:41:20.759
<v Speaker 2>the economy, and how that is sort of the traditional

0:41:20.760 --> 0:41:25.880
<v Speaker 2>issue that regulates how people feel the economy comes up

0:41:26.000 --> 0:41:30.080
<v Speaker 2>organically in the conversations, Chuck when I ask them, what.

0:41:30.280 --> 0:41:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Issue not the only issue that comes up organically.

0:41:33.560 --> 0:41:34.719
<v Speaker 3>It's not the only one.

0:41:35.440 --> 0:41:39.000
<v Speaker 2>Immigration comes up, mostly in an approving way, but sort

0:41:39.000 --> 0:41:42.239
<v Speaker 2>of often the times I like what he's doing, I

0:41:42.280 --> 0:41:43.560
<v Speaker 2>don't like how he's doing it.

0:41:43.719 --> 0:41:46.680
<v Speaker 1>That is the theme of most of these groups. For me,

0:41:46.800 --> 0:41:49.400
<v Speaker 1>that's what I always take away, and I'm always very careful.

0:41:49.400 --> 0:41:52.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, you know, what democrats don't understand is voters

0:41:52.960 --> 0:41:55.239
<v Speaker 1>like his goals. They don't like his execution.

0:41:56.000 --> 0:41:57.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they don't.

0:41:57.400 --> 0:42:00.800
<v Speaker 2>The way I try to analogize Trump, who have struggled

0:42:00.840 --> 0:42:02.080
<v Speaker 2>to understand why.

0:42:01.880 --> 0:42:04.840
<v Speaker 3>People like him or approve of him, I shouldn't.

0:42:04.840 --> 0:42:07.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm just going to say, these people don't like them,

0:42:07.040 --> 0:42:10.400
<v Speaker 1>but vote for him. This is different, right, we don't

0:42:10.560 --> 0:42:15.560
<v Speaker 1>like them. And yet you know, it's like Aaron Sorkin wrote,

0:42:15.800 --> 0:42:18.320
<v Speaker 1>you want me on that wall in deep dark corners

0:42:18.320 --> 0:42:20.440
<v Speaker 1>at the parties, you don't want to admit to your friends, right,

0:42:20.560 --> 0:42:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Like it's the Jack Nicholson monologue from a few good.

0:42:24.040 --> 0:42:25.560
<v Speaker 3>Men, Yeah, exactly.

0:42:25.760 --> 0:42:27.920
<v Speaker 2>And so the analogy I use is a little bit different,

0:42:28.000 --> 0:42:31.360
<v Speaker 2>is like a medical analogy. So the reputation that surgeons have,

0:42:31.520 --> 0:42:33.879
<v Speaker 2>for example, of not being warm and fuzzy.

0:42:33.600 --> 0:42:35.520
<v Speaker 1>Kind of jerky. Yeah, yeah, I know it all. It's

0:42:35.560 --> 0:42:36.759
<v Speaker 1>god complex, et cetera.

0:42:37.239 --> 0:42:37.719
<v Speaker 3>Exactly.

0:42:37.719 --> 0:42:39.840
<v Speaker 2>But at the end of the day, if they know

0:42:39.920 --> 0:42:43.160
<v Speaker 2>how to take out that infected whatever it's in your body,

0:42:43.360 --> 0:42:45.640
<v Speaker 2>and they do that, right, who cares if they're and

0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:48.200
<v Speaker 2>you know what, I just I just want to make

0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:50.560
<v Speaker 2>sure they can do the job that I hired them

0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:52.879
<v Speaker 2>to do, which is in this case, for example, get

0:42:52.880 --> 0:42:56.880
<v Speaker 2>illegal aliens out of the country, or push back on

0:42:57.320 --> 0:43:01.680
<v Speaker 2>unfair trade practices from other countries. Those are the kinds

0:43:01.680 --> 0:43:04.160
<v Speaker 2>of things that they're willing to tolerate a lot of

0:43:04.200 --> 0:43:07.200
<v Speaker 2>his behavior in order to get the ends that they want.

0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:09.879
<v Speaker 2>And so that's that's why you get this response. But

0:43:09.880 --> 0:43:11.759
<v Speaker 2>but to me, you know, for a lot of the

0:43:11.800 --> 0:43:15.800
<v Speaker 2>folks I'm talking to, the vote between Trump and Harris

0:43:15.880 --> 0:43:19.879
<v Speaker 2>last year, to draw another analogy out was like being

0:43:20.000 --> 0:43:23.720
<v Speaker 2>a thirsty person who has to choose between drinking wheat

0:43:23.760 --> 0:43:27.520
<v Speaker 2>grass juice and castor oil. You have to drink something

0:43:27.520 --> 0:43:30.920
<v Speaker 2>because you're really thirsty, but whatever you choose is going

0:43:31.000 --> 0:43:35.320
<v Speaker 2>to be unpleasant. It tastes like ba right blah, and afterwards,

0:43:35.400 --> 0:43:37.160
<v Speaker 2>having drunk it, you're going to think, I really have

0:43:37.239 --> 0:43:37.719
<v Speaker 2>to drink that.

0:43:38.440 --> 0:43:39.879
<v Speaker 3>And that's how they feel.

0:43:39.960 --> 0:43:42.040
<v Speaker 2>It's not that they one was was highly preferable to

0:43:42.040 --> 0:43:44.200
<v Speaker 2>tell he was two unpleasant choices.

0:43:44.719 --> 0:43:47.040
<v Speaker 1>And and the outcome is likely to leave you in

0:43:47.080 --> 0:43:51.200
<v Speaker 1>the bathroom. Now, where do we take this? Going all

0:43:51.200 --> 0:43:52.560
<v Speaker 1>the way right now?

0:43:52.640 --> 0:43:52.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:43:52.840 --> 0:43:57.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, stop yeah. Let me ask one other

0:43:57.280 --> 0:44:02.000
<v Speaker 1>question about these groups this year, and I assume any

0:44:02.080 --> 0:44:06.040
<v Speaker 1>Democrats breaking through in a positive way to these voters.

0:44:07.080 --> 0:44:07.239
<v Speaker 3>No.

0:44:07.800 --> 0:44:10.160
<v Speaker 2>And I have to tell you if you if we

0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:14.160
<v Speaker 2>were doing a little thesaurus dot com right now and

0:44:14.200 --> 0:44:18.400
<v Speaker 2>typed in the word contempt and ask for every synonym

0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:21.000
<v Speaker 2>for the word contempt, those are the adjectives these folks

0:44:21.120 --> 0:44:23.520
<v Speaker 2>used to describe how they feel about the Democratic Party.

0:44:24.640 --> 0:44:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Not only that, to your question directly, there's no Democrat

0:44:27.840 --> 0:44:31.520
<v Speaker 2>on the horizon that gets them excited. They're not paying

0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:33.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of attention to the to the presidential race,

0:44:34.000 --> 0:44:38.480
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty eight, I did show them a Gavin

0:44:38.600 --> 0:44:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Newsom social media post mocking the president's style.

0:44:44.120 --> 0:44:47.319
<v Speaker 3>They they thought it was not genuine, not that words.

0:44:47.320 --> 0:44:48.759
<v Speaker 2>They thought it was real, like he had done it,

0:44:48.800 --> 0:44:51.960
<v Speaker 2>but they thought he was basically taking.

0:44:51.719 --> 0:44:54.080
<v Speaker 1>The President's style, trying too hard.

0:44:54.440 --> 0:44:56.680
<v Speaker 3>It's trying too hard. But also that only Trump knows

0:44:56.719 --> 0:44:57.239
<v Speaker 3>how to do this.

0:44:57.320 --> 0:44:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, Newsom is kind of faking it by doing it,

0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:02.080
<v Speaker 2>by taking on the Trump style, and they saw right

0:45:02.120 --> 0:45:02.520
<v Speaker 2>through it.

0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:05.960
<v Speaker 1>So I think that's a great warning for people. I

0:45:06.000 --> 0:45:09.279
<v Speaker 1>think the because I have some sources on the left

0:45:09.280 --> 0:45:10.960
<v Speaker 1>to think, hey, I want to find my own Trump.

0:45:11.000 --> 0:45:13.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, do you are you sure? I don't know

0:45:14.000 --> 0:45:16.040
<v Speaker 1>if Americans want Trump light, and I don't know if

0:45:16.040 --> 0:45:20.759
<v Speaker 1>they want to. Sometimes you don't want more a derivative

0:45:21.040 --> 0:45:23.200
<v Speaker 1>of something you maybe only wanted to have once.

0:45:23.280 --> 0:45:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, Well, and some would argue that Governor DeSantis found

0:45:26.520 --> 0:45:28.520
<v Speaker 2>that out the hard way the Republican primary.

0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Right, No, you know it. What people want is Trump's

0:45:33.800 --> 0:45:37.640
<v Speaker 1>personality more than the policies. Yeah, And I think that's

0:45:37.719 --> 0:45:41.719
<v Speaker 1>the that's the probably the hard the hardest thing for

0:45:41.800 --> 0:45:45.960
<v Speaker 1>political strategist to accept in this in this current conversation.

0:45:46.400 --> 0:45:48.040
<v Speaker 2>I got to tell you, Chuck, I've been at the

0:45:48.040 --> 0:45:51.880
<v Speaker 2>focus group business now for twenty four years. I've moderated

0:45:52.360 --> 0:45:54.479
<v Speaker 2>well more than a thousand focus groups in the course

0:45:54.520 --> 0:45:57.719
<v Speaker 2>of my career and going back well before Trump was

0:45:57.840 --> 0:46:01.520
<v Speaker 2>ever a nominee ever on the politic will scene at all.

0:46:01.800 --> 0:46:04.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about two thousand and eight, twenty twelve whatever.

0:46:05.480 --> 0:46:09.120
<v Speaker 2>I kept turing over and over again from people center right.

0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:13.120
<v Speaker 2>We want somebody who fights. Republicans don't fight, They give

0:46:13.200 --> 0:46:17.000
<v Speaker 2>up too easily. The Democrats are constantly all over them.

0:46:17.040 --> 0:46:19.799
<v Speaker 2>The Democrats know how to fight, Republicans don't know how

0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:23.640
<v Speaker 2>to fight. And Trump scratched an itch. He scratched the

0:46:23.680 --> 0:46:26.080
<v Speaker 2>itch of somebody who's willing to fight for them.

0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:29.040
<v Speaker 1>Well, now are the left that's that? Now it's the

0:46:29.160 --> 0:46:32.120
<v Speaker 1>left that's complaining that Democrats don't know how to fight exactly.

0:46:32.280 --> 0:46:34.240
<v Speaker 2>That's the thing I always found hilarious is that Democrats

0:46:34.280 --> 0:46:37.480
<v Speaker 2>think that Republicans fight better. Republicans think the Democrats fight better.

0:46:38.200 --> 0:46:41.120
<v Speaker 2>And I've heard this in groups, separate groups and over

0:46:41.120 --> 0:46:43.000
<v Speaker 2>the course of years, and it's always amazed me that

0:46:43.040 --> 0:46:45.560
<v Speaker 2>neither one has an appreciation for their own ability to

0:46:45.560 --> 0:46:48.560
<v Speaker 2>fight and an overestimation of the other side's ability to fight.

0:46:48.680 --> 0:46:52.600
<v Speaker 1>That's always so true. And ultimately, you know, it's whichever

0:46:52.719 --> 0:46:55.680
<v Speaker 1>side is presiding over a better economy is the better fighter.

0:46:55.760 --> 0:46:59.719
<v Speaker 1>It's funny that it works, right, It's it's it's sometimes

0:46:59.719 --> 0:47:05.160
<v Speaker 1>that's does anybody else pop positively? Forget Democrats? I mean,

0:47:05.600 --> 0:47:08.839
<v Speaker 1>when you you know, you know, is there is there

0:47:08.880 --> 0:47:13.319
<v Speaker 1>admiration for Silicon Valley or skepticism? Is there? You know?

0:47:13.480 --> 0:47:16.880
<v Speaker 1>Is this rise in sort of you know, Steve Bannon

0:47:17.560 --> 0:47:20.160
<v Speaker 1>and I had a I had interviewed Bannon a few

0:47:20.200 --> 0:47:23.640
<v Speaker 1>months ago, and you know, so he said, you know,

0:47:23.680 --> 0:47:25.480
<v Speaker 1>I was asking him why he and Lena Kahan have

0:47:25.760 --> 0:47:30.480
<v Speaker 1>something in common, and his his thesis was, well, we're

0:47:30.520 --> 0:47:34.960
<v Speaker 1>both skeptical when of consolidated power. And I thought that

0:47:34.960 --> 0:47:37.200
<v Speaker 1>that was a pretty fair that that is what what

0:47:37.239 --> 0:47:40.520
<v Speaker 1>we ignites the Sanders voter and the Trump voter. Is that, right,

0:47:40.680 --> 0:47:45.319
<v Speaker 1>a bit of skepticism of the powerful institutions. Are these

0:47:45.400 --> 0:47:48.000
<v Speaker 1>voters that are they the are they the skeptics or

0:47:48.040 --> 0:47:48.919
<v Speaker 1>are they something else?

0:47:50.360 --> 0:47:54.320
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't describe them as being I mean, they're definitely skeptical,

0:47:54.640 --> 0:47:55.880
<v Speaker 2>So yes to that question.

0:47:56.000 --> 0:47:59.000
<v Speaker 1>No doubt that the vote against. They're not vote for us, right,

0:47:59.040 --> 0:48:02.239
<v Speaker 1>they vote against there are They feel like people that

0:48:02.400 --> 0:48:05.239
<v Speaker 1>decided who not who they couldn't stomach as president, not

0:48:05.280 --> 0:48:07.719
<v Speaker 1>necessarily voting for who they preferred.

0:48:08.360 --> 0:48:08.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:48:08.800 --> 0:48:12.759
<v Speaker 2>I like to describe them as serial presidential monogamous. You

0:48:12.760 --> 0:48:15.560
<v Speaker 2>know about the terms, you know, serial date, serial monogamous,

0:48:15.640 --> 0:48:16.680
<v Speaker 2>you date one person break.

0:48:16.760 --> 0:48:19.759
<v Speaker 1>I was accused of that over the years. Okay, well

0:48:21.040 --> 0:48:24.479
<v Speaker 1>I never could date multiple. I never understood my friends

0:48:24.520 --> 0:48:25.960
<v Speaker 1>who could do that. I'm like, I don't know, I

0:48:26.000 --> 0:48:28.000
<v Speaker 1>can't do it. So I was a serial monogamous.

0:48:28.280 --> 0:48:31.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So these are serial presidential monogamous, meaning they dated

0:48:32.200 --> 0:48:34.920
<v Speaker 2>George W. Bush, they got sick of him, they chose Obama,

0:48:35.000 --> 0:48:37.080
<v Speaker 2>they got sick of Obama, they chose Trump, they got

0:48:37.120 --> 0:48:39.600
<v Speaker 2>sick of Trump, they got they chose Biden, and then

0:48:39.719 --> 0:48:41.480
<v Speaker 2>they some of them were so sick of Biden they

0:48:41.480 --> 0:48:42.560
<v Speaker 2>actually went back to Trump again.

0:48:42.640 --> 0:48:45.919
<v Speaker 3>Gave them a second chance. But there they are. There.

0:48:46.840 --> 0:48:51.719
<v Speaker 2>Their loyalty to any presidential candidate or president is a

0:48:51.880 --> 0:48:54.960
<v Speaker 2>shallow as a as a tip of a pin.

0:48:55.320 --> 0:48:58.440
<v Speaker 1>And it sounds like they're always looking for something new, always.

0:48:58.600 --> 0:49:00.440
<v Speaker 3>That is, that's absolutely what they want. They are.

0:49:00.480 --> 0:49:04.000
<v Speaker 2>They're easily dissatisfied, easily put off. And the thing that

0:49:04.040 --> 0:49:07.320
<v Speaker 2>amazed me back in twenty twenty one was how quickly

0:49:07.360 --> 0:49:09.440
<v Speaker 2>they bailed on Biden, you know, And I'd asked them

0:49:09.440 --> 0:49:10.520
<v Speaker 2>how they felt about Biden in.

0:49:10.520 --> 0:49:11.640
<v Speaker 1>The first three or four months.

0:49:12.040 --> 0:49:16.440
<v Speaker 2>I feel, I'm feeling relief, I'm feeling proud, I'm feeling calm.

0:49:16.760 --> 0:49:19.320
<v Speaker 2>And then within a few months it was like, yeah,

0:49:19.400 --> 0:49:22.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean they just one thing, obviously, it is Afghanistan,

0:49:22.800 --> 0:49:24.560
<v Speaker 2>the delta variant, and then they were done. And for

0:49:24.600 --> 0:49:26.399
<v Speaker 2>three and a half years he could not win them back,

0:49:26.719 --> 0:49:29.960
<v Speaker 2>so they were merciless toward him. Some could argue that

0:49:29.960 --> 0:49:33.440
<v Speaker 2>that was basically an unforced error on Biden's part, but

0:49:33.480 --> 0:49:34.839
<v Speaker 2>these folks did never went back.

0:49:34.960 --> 0:49:37.080
<v Speaker 3>This year very different. Every month.

0:49:37.280 --> 0:49:39.799
<v Speaker 2>The number of people who are approving or disapproving of

0:49:39.840 --> 0:49:43.439
<v Speaker 2>Trump is fluctuating endlessly, and there's no consistency from month

0:49:43.480 --> 0:49:46.040
<v Speaker 2>to month. And I'll have some higher levels of approval

0:49:46.080 --> 0:49:50.120
<v Speaker 2>one month, lower levels the next. There's no seeming pattern

0:49:50.160 --> 0:49:52.440
<v Speaker 2>in terms of what direction it's going. I can tell

0:49:52.440 --> 0:49:55.880
<v Speaker 2>you roughly, since February, just under sixty percent say they

0:49:55.920 --> 0:49:59.080
<v Speaker 2>still approve of the job he's doing. But that's again

0:49:59.400 --> 0:50:03.400
<v Speaker 2>February's responds versus aprils versus July versus now, So you

0:50:03.480 --> 0:50:05.319
<v Speaker 2>know it's the timing.

0:50:05.000 --> 0:50:06.560
<v Speaker 3>When I asked it. I didn't ask all of.

0:50:06.480 --> 0:50:11.040
<v Speaker 1>Them, just in the laste anything consistent about the people

0:50:11.080 --> 0:50:16.160
<v Speaker 1>in his orbit. Kennedy, Vance Rubio, and Haig Seth are

0:50:16.239 --> 0:50:20.439
<v Speaker 1>arguably the most prominent members in Trump's orbit. Christy Nome,

0:50:20.600 --> 0:50:23.319
<v Speaker 1>maybe Stephen Miller. Do any of these folks pop in

0:50:23.360 --> 0:50:23.880
<v Speaker 1>these groups?

0:50:25.000 --> 0:50:27.560
<v Speaker 2>Most of these folks are not familiar with most of

0:50:27.680 --> 0:50:31.400
<v Speaker 2>these people I asked. I've asked about Robert Kennedy Junior

0:50:31.440 --> 0:50:35.520
<v Speaker 2>a couple of times, and healthcare policy. They were split

0:50:35.680 --> 0:50:39.080
<v Speaker 2>between approve of Kennedy, disapprove of Kennedy, don't know what

0:50:39.160 --> 0:50:43.319
<v Speaker 2>he's doing, so it was kind of shallow For those

0:50:43.360 --> 0:50:46.759
<v Speaker 2>who do support. They want to see America be healthier again,

0:50:46.840 --> 0:50:50.319
<v Speaker 2>so the MAHA theme is important to them, but they

0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:52.880
<v Speaker 2>get very sketchy when you start talking about making it

0:50:52.920 --> 0:50:57.200
<v Speaker 2>harder to get vaccinations and those types of things. They're

0:50:57.320 --> 0:50:59.960
<v Speaker 2>willing to go along, but just not as far as

0:51:00.000 --> 0:51:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Trump is going.

0:51:01.200 --> 0:51:04.880
<v Speaker 1>So if I were watching these focus groups and I

0:51:04.920 --> 0:51:07.759
<v Speaker 1>wanted to help Bill McRaven become president, and when the

0:51:07.800 --> 0:51:12.719
<v Speaker 1>presidency is an independent, what would I what what what?

0:51:12.719 --> 0:51:14.920
<v Speaker 1>What would my advance? What would your advice be to

0:51:14.960 --> 0:51:18.200
<v Speaker 1>a I say Bill McRaven, because he's my avatar of

0:51:18.239 --> 0:51:21.640
<v Speaker 1>what a what a potential you know sort of uh,

0:51:21.880 --> 0:51:24.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, mythical independent figure that that might be able

0:51:24.719 --> 0:51:27.720
<v Speaker 1>to break through. I think somebody with a military background. YadA, YadA, YadA.

0:51:27.719 --> 0:51:29.680
<v Speaker 1>That's my thesis. Whether it's true or not, it's a

0:51:29.719 --> 0:51:33.160
<v Speaker 1>whole nother story. But if you were thinking about trying

0:51:33.160 --> 0:51:35.600
<v Speaker 1>to run outside the two party system right now, because

0:51:35.600 --> 0:51:40.320
<v Speaker 1>there's such deep sort of distrust of is there something

0:51:40.320 --> 0:51:46.640
<v Speaker 1>to glean from these voters or are they are they are?

0:51:46.680 --> 0:51:49.480
<v Speaker 1>They just not gonna They're just not gonna be They're

0:51:49.520 --> 0:51:51.080
<v Speaker 1>just going to keep picking between the two parties.

0:51:52.680 --> 0:51:53.560
<v Speaker 3>That's a great question.

0:51:53.719 --> 0:51:56.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure necessarily that they are rushing to have

0:51:56.760 --> 0:52:01.880
<v Speaker 2>a third party alternative. When I asked about no labels

0:52:01.920 --> 0:52:03.440
<v Speaker 2>a couple of years ago, when that was still part

0:52:03.480 --> 0:52:07.080
<v Speaker 2>of the conversation, there was a hesitation there to get

0:52:07.120 --> 0:52:09.120
<v Speaker 2>involved in those kinds of things, thinking that you'd be

0:52:09.160 --> 0:52:15.520
<v Speaker 2>tossing the vote away. But for me, I think they

0:52:15.680 --> 0:52:18.280
<v Speaker 2>what I would encourage people who want to break through

0:52:18.680 --> 0:52:22.480
<v Speaker 2>center independent like you're describing left or right is I

0:52:22.480 --> 0:52:25.080
<v Speaker 2>would try to be raising some issues that I know

0:52:25.320 --> 0:52:27.640
<v Speaker 2>matter to people that are not part of the conversation

0:52:27.800 --> 0:52:33.040
<v Speaker 2>right now. So, for example, when I asked about Biden's age,

0:52:34.719 --> 0:52:37.600
<v Speaker 2>people would tell me, and I asked two questions, what

0:52:37.760 --> 0:52:40.319
<v Speaker 2>is the ideal age for someone to be president and

0:52:40.360 --> 0:52:43.400
<v Speaker 2>what's the oldest acceptable age for someone to be president?

0:52:43.760 --> 0:52:46.560
<v Speaker 2>The ideal age was basically early the mid fifties. The

0:52:46.600 --> 0:52:50.160
<v Speaker 2>oldest acceptable age was in the mid sixties on average.

0:52:50.200 --> 0:52:50.799
<v Speaker 3>When I asked that, I.

0:52:51.080 --> 0:52:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Rarely do I get an age above seventy as being

0:52:53.200 --> 0:52:56.000
<v Speaker 2>oldest acceptable. We now have a president who's almost eighty

0:52:56.080 --> 0:52:58.040
<v Speaker 2>years old. We just had one who ended at eighty two.

0:52:59.360 --> 0:53:01.839
<v Speaker 2>I would be taught talking about things like setting age

0:53:01.880 --> 0:53:08.040
<v Speaker 2>limits for presidents as part of a constitutional amendment. I

0:53:08.080 --> 0:53:10.360
<v Speaker 2>think that would be an important thing to do.

0:53:10.600 --> 0:53:13.120
<v Speaker 1>You can break through with these with with you that

0:53:13.200 --> 0:53:15.600
<v Speaker 1>actually might connect with voters, I think.

0:53:15.400 --> 0:53:16.560
<v Speaker 3>After having process.

0:53:16.640 --> 0:53:19.759
<v Speaker 1>I asked that skeptically, because as much as ires a

0:53:19.760 --> 0:53:22.319
<v Speaker 1>lot of process things I'd like to fix about our democracy,

0:53:22.880 --> 0:53:26.960
<v Speaker 1>it's hard to get mass interest in some of these things.

0:53:27.320 --> 0:53:29.920
<v Speaker 2>I would say generally yes in the and in the

0:53:30.000 --> 0:53:34.239
<v Speaker 2>absence of having very old presidents for what for us

0:53:34.320 --> 0:53:37.879
<v Speaker 2>could easily be twelve years of presidents over the age

0:53:37.920 --> 0:53:40.520
<v Speaker 2>of seventy five, seventy or seventy five.

0:53:40.560 --> 0:53:41.239
<v Speaker 3>It's remarkable.

0:53:41.239 --> 0:53:43.200
<v Speaker 2>I think in that context people might be you know,

0:53:43.239 --> 0:53:47.239
<v Speaker 2>what I'm done, and I think and the other thing

0:53:47.239 --> 0:53:50.080
<v Speaker 2>I would say is, and again I'm going to ask this.

0:53:50.160 --> 0:53:52.160
<v Speaker 2>I haven't de gone that deep into it yet, but

0:53:52.200 --> 0:53:55.319
<v Speaker 2>I plan to. Is the whole issue of pardons and

0:53:55.360 --> 0:53:59.120
<v Speaker 2>having the president have unfettered pardoning power. I can tell

0:53:59.160 --> 0:54:01.680
<v Speaker 2>you that the pardons from Biden as he left office

0:54:01.719 --> 0:54:05.080
<v Speaker 2>and the part that Trumps has given people since he

0:54:05.120 --> 0:54:08.200
<v Speaker 2>took office have enraged a number of these swing voters.

0:54:08.760 --> 0:54:12.200
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's interesting. Corruption is always when you look

0:54:12.239 --> 0:54:15.160
<v Speaker 1>at big swings that we've had in midterm elections in particular,

0:54:15.800 --> 0:54:19.919
<v Speaker 1>corruption has actually always been one of the through lines.

0:54:19.960 --> 0:54:22.040
<v Speaker 1>There's like been an economy and you know, because it's

0:54:22.040 --> 0:54:24.240
<v Speaker 1>a way to Hey, they're so worried about their friends.

0:54:24.320 --> 0:54:26.719
<v Speaker 1>They're not focused on your bottom line. They're so worried

0:54:26.719 --> 0:54:30.040
<v Speaker 1>about this, right, there's this you know, you so a

0:54:30.120 --> 0:54:32.640
<v Speaker 1>through line of to me, if you're going to have

0:54:32.680 --> 0:54:35.839
<v Speaker 1>a successful midterm, if you're the out party, you need

0:54:35.880 --> 0:54:40.440
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of corruption messaging against the party in

0:54:40.480 --> 0:54:43.520
<v Speaker 1>power in order to have some success. But I've had

0:54:43.560 --> 0:54:46.920
<v Speaker 1>this thesis that the reason it doesn't work against Trump

0:54:47.480 --> 0:54:51.480
<v Speaker 1>is these voters already think the whole system is corrupt. Yeah,

0:54:51.520 --> 0:54:56.760
<v Speaker 1>he's corrupt, but the entire systems corrupt. Every president does

0:54:57.200 --> 0:55:00.680
<v Speaker 1>is a little bit corrupt, So they don't have the

0:55:00.719 --> 0:55:06.080
<v Speaker 1>same gag reflects maybe that some of us do watching

0:55:06.080 --> 0:55:06.840
<v Speaker 1>what Trump does.

0:55:07.280 --> 0:55:11.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I just wonder whether at the end of a

0:55:11.120 --> 0:55:16.200
<v Speaker 2>second Trump term, folks who constantly tell me how mistrustful

0:55:16.200 --> 0:55:19.919
<v Speaker 2>they are of politicians exactly as you just described, whether

0:55:19.960 --> 0:55:24.600
<v Speaker 2>at some point something happens where they say, you know what, this,

0:55:24.800 --> 0:55:26.839
<v Speaker 2>what we've just had in the last twelve years has

0:55:26.880 --> 0:55:30.880
<v Speaker 2>not worked for us, and they react to it viscerally

0:55:31.560 --> 0:55:34.120
<v Speaker 2>to the point where someone who's able to make this

0:55:34.239 --> 0:55:37.000
<v Speaker 2>case is able to make it meaningfully and wants to

0:55:37.040 --> 0:55:39.280
<v Speaker 2>actually put it at the top of the national agenda.

0:55:39.480 --> 0:55:42.719
<v Speaker 2>I don't again, to me, this is going We need

0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:44.160
<v Speaker 2>to see the polling on it. We have to see

0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:46.160
<v Speaker 2>after the polling shifts and moves more in this direction

0:55:46.239 --> 0:55:48.680
<v Speaker 2>of the course of Trump's second term. But to me,

0:55:48.920 --> 0:55:53.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting a sense that if what Trump has promised

0:55:54.080 --> 0:55:57.080
<v Speaker 2>doesn't come to pass for the people who voted for him,

0:55:57.360 --> 0:56:00.480
<v Speaker 2>and that what Biden promised didn't come to ask for

0:56:00.560 --> 0:56:02.600
<v Speaker 2>them when they voted for him and saw what happened

0:56:02.600 --> 0:56:05.520
<v Speaker 2>in his four years. Does that create an opening for

0:56:05.600 --> 0:56:10.319
<v Speaker 2>your independent candidate or some reform minded R or D

0:56:10.760 --> 0:56:13.520
<v Speaker 2>to say, you know what, it's time for a generational shift.

0:56:13.640 --> 0:56:14.839
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you know what's going to happen.

0:56:14.880 --> 0:56:16.680
<v Speaker 2>We're not going to have We're not going to elect

0:56:16.719 --> 0:56:19.720
<v Speaker 2>another eighty year old president in twenty eight.

0:56:19.840 --> 0:56:23.480
<v Speaker 1>We may elect our youngest president ever type of mindset.

0:56:23.560 --> 0:56:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we have our first millennial president. We'll skip over

0:56:26.080 --> 0:56:29.879
<v Speaker 2>gen X altogether. Right, let's start it on that. I know, yeah,

0:56:29.960 --> 0:56:31.719
<v Speaker 2>but that's rude, Jenny.

0:56:32.120 --> 0:56:32.960
<v Speaker 3>But that's but the thing.

0:56:33.080 --> 0:56:35.200
<v Speaker 2>But I guess the point is with that comes the

0:56:35.280 --> 0:56:38.759
<v Speaker 2>opportunity to make changes and the other thing we're overdue

0:56:38.760 --> 0:56:41.239
<v Speaker 2>for if you really know, I just haven't started yet.

0:56:41.280 --> 0:56:44.880
<v Speaker 2>Joel Lapor's new book on the Constitution is that you know,

0:56:45.000 --> 0:56:47.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, constitutional changes happen in spurts.

0:56:48.760 --> 0:56:50.000
<v Speaker 3>They they're clustered together.

0:56:50.080 --> 0:56:52.200
<v Speaker 2>There are a few short periods of time where you

0:56:52.200 --> 0:56:54.520
<v Speaker 2>get three or four amendments all at once, and we

0:56:54.560 --> 0:56:56.960
<v Speaker 2>haven't had one of these in a very long time.

0:57:03.200 --> 0:57:05.800
<v Speaker 1>And in fact, I mean this is sort of my people.

0:57:06.000 --> 0:57:07.919
<v Speaker 1>You know, people ask me, I'm always say I'm short

0:57:08.000 --> 0:57:11.520
<v Speaker 1>term pessimistic, long term optimistic. And this is the reason

0:57:11.840 --> 0:57:15.080
<v Speaker 1>if you I think we're loosely in the in you know,

0:57:15.160 --> 0:57:18.320
<v Speaker 1>in the in the repeat, you know, sort of repeating

0:57:18.360 --> 0:57:22.800
<v Speaker 1>the early twentieth century. And you know, our response to

0:57:23.000 --> 0:57:27.840
<v Speaker 1>consolidated power, big business, robber barons getting too close with

0:57:27.880 --> 0:57:31.880
<v Speaker 1>government was women's suffrage, giving women the right to vote,

0:57:31.880 --> 0:57:35.200
<v Speaker 1>direct election of senators, and the income tax. All of

0:57:35.240 --> 0:57:39.080
<v Speaker 1>that was designed essentially to start to tackle this sort

0:57:39.120 --> 0:57:43.120
<v Speaker 1>of you know, industrial barons that were sort of dominating

0:57:43.800 --> 0:57:47.080
<v Speaker 1>our lives then. And arguably it's the last time we

0:57:47.120 --> 0:57:50.800
<v Speaker 1>really did a lot of constitutional maintenance, right. Yeah, we

0:57:50.840 --> 0:57:53.400
<v Speaker 1>did the twenty second Amendment, you know, after FDR, and

0:57:53.840 --> 0:57:57.000
<v Speaker 1>we gave we lowered the voting aged eighteen, but those

0:57:57.040 --> 0:58:00.600
<v Speaker 1>weren't sort of societal ills type of thing, right versus that,

0:58:00.920 --> 0:58:03.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you're right, we basically we've only really had

0:58:03.280 --> 0:58:06.960
<v Speaker 1>three big periods of amending the constitution. This the beginning

0:58:07.120 --> 0:58:10.240
<v Speaker 1>the Civil War and essentially right before the New Deal.

0:58:10.840 --> 0:58:16.200
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, and I think if the frustrations that people are

0:58:16.240 --> 0:58:20.400
<v Speaker 7>feeling need an outlet, and we can identify the things

0:58:20.400 --> 0:58:23.120
<v Speaker 7>that are most angering and frustrating people that we could

0:58:23.120 --> 0:58:25.080
<v Speaker 7>easily see another one of those periods coming up.

0:58:25.640 --> 0:58:28.000
<v Speaker 1>And you know, it's funny it, you know, we may

0:58:28.000 --> 0:58:29.680
<v Speaker 1>be stumbling upon it. It's like if you're going to

0:58:29.760 --> 0:58:32.320
<v Speaker 1>try to run outside the system, right, if you're going

0:58:32.360 --> 0:58:34.720
<v Speaker 1>to run against both parties in some form, right, and

0:58:34.760 --> 0:58:36.440
<v Speaker 1>you may do it within one of the two parties,

0:58:36.960 --> 0:58:40.240
<v Speaker 1>or you run as a third party independent calling for

0:58:40.280 --> 0:58:43.600
<v Speaker 1>this constitutional convention so that we can you know, keep

0:58:43.640 --> 0:58:45.520
<v Speaker 1>seventy year olds out of the White House, and you

0:58:45.560 --> 0:58:49.360
<v Speaker 1>know do campaign you know, you know, put campaign finance

0:58:49.440 --> 0:58:54.920
<v Speaker 1>guardrails in here. Maybe undoe presidential pardons. Create a pardon board, right,

0:58:55.000 --> 0:58:57.960
<v Speaker 1>so that there isn't you know, essentially we've decided it

0:58:58.000 --> 0:59:01.760
<v Speaker 1>turns out that the founders were on this one presidential

0:59:01.760 --> 0:59:03.840
<v Speaker 1>pardon was a mistake, and here's a better way to

0:59:03.920 --> 0:59:06.919
<v Speaker 1>do it. And you create almost a pardon board where

0:59:06.960 --> 0:59:09.840
<v Speaker 1>you still allow for executive pardons, but they actually have

0:59:09.880 --> 0:59:12.360
<v Speaker 1>to pass through a committee. It isn't just a singular person,

0:59:13.040 --> 0:59:16.840
<v Speaker 1>which many states do. By the way, where we've especially

0:59:16.840 --> 0:59:20.240
<v Speaker 1>where there have been scandals. There's a famous Fred Thompson

0:59:20.280 --> 0:59:23.680
<v Speaker 1>became an actor because of a pardon scandal in the

0:59:23.680 --> 0:59:26.960
<v Speaker 1>state of Tennessee in the seventies. They couldn't find the

0:59:27.000 --> 0:59:29.000
<v Speaker 1>guy to play Fred Thompson, so they asked Fred Thompson

0:59:29.000 --> 0:59:31.800
<v Speaker 1>to play himself, and his acting career took off from there.

0:59:31.800 --> 0:59:35.440
<v Speaker 1>It's one of my favorite little little pieces of Hollywood

0:59:35.440 --> 0:59:40.200
<v Speaker 1>political trivia. But boy, you know, talking with you on

0:59:40.240 --> 0:59:45.320
<v Speaker 1>this reform and corruption, you know you still got to

0:59:45.360 --> 0:59:47.480
<v Speaker 1>talk about the economy, but you might be able to

0:59:47.480 --> 0:59:50.040
<v Speaker 1>break through a little bit with reforming and corruption. It

0:59:50.080 --> 0:59:51.640
<v Speaker 1>sounds like at least that's what you're thinking.

0:59:51.880 --> 0:59:54.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking that and also tying the two together. Right,

0:59:54.640 --> 0:59:57.760
<v Speaker 2>why are people struggling? It's because these vested interests are

0:59:57.760 --> 1:00:00.520
<v Speaker 2>holding you back. They're charging you too much, They're making

1:00:00.560 --> 1:00:02.800
<v Speaker 2>your life miserable in terms of customer service.

1:00:02.840 --> 1:00:04.960
<v Speaker 3>I mean, we haven't Chuck, Chuck, We've talked for an

1:00:04.960 --> 1:00:07.080
<v Speaker 3>hour now, we still have having talked about AI, right,

1:00:07.160 --> 1:00:07.560
<v Speaker 3>And so.

1:00:07.400 --> 1:00:11.160
<v Speaker 1>It's so funny. I'm this is and maybe I'm going

1:00:11.240 --> 1:00:13.040
<v Speaker 1>to give you a few ideas, or maybe you've already

1:00:13.080 --> 1:00:15.520
<v Speaker 1>done this. So one of my favorite when I have

1:00:15.560 --> 1:00:19.000
<v Speaker 1>an audience. I'll you know, when I start talking about

1:00:19.040 --> 1:00:21.160
<v Speaker 1>people will ask a question about AI. I'll quickly ask is.

1:00:21.400 --> 1:00:24.160
<v Speaker 1>I'll say, how many of you would pay extra to

1:00:24.200 --> 1:00:28.280
<v Speaker 1>have a human handle customer service? And literally two thirds

1:00:28.320 --> 1:00:29.920
<v Speaker 1>of the room. Well, I've done this now for the

1:00:30.000 --> 1:00:32.720
<v Speaker 1>last few months, and there's always a majority of the

1:00:32.760 --> 1:00:36.000
<v Speaker 1>room raises their hand. That a willingness to pay extra

1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:40.240
<v Speaker 1>for a human being? It actually is. I am weirdly

1:00:40.280 --> 1:00:44.080
<v Speaker 1>optimistic about the AI effication of the Internet because it

1:00:44.120 --> 1:00:46.760
<v Speaker 1>may be the thing that gets us outside of our screens.

1:00:47.520 --> 1:00:52.440
<v Speaker 1>The more online is artificial, the more we're going to

1:00:52.520 --> 1:00:55.680
<v Speaker 1>crave humanity. We already are craving it in the customer

1:00:55.720 --> 1:00:59.080
<v Speaker 1>service by my anecdotal you know, And I imagine if

1:00:59.120 --> 1:01:01.480
<v Speaker 1>you started to ask and all your focus scripts, I

1:01:01.480 --> 1:01:05.120
<v Speaker 1>imagine you get the same response. We hate some computer

1:01:05.280 --> 1:01:08.160
<v Speaker 1>or robot thinking they know what we're talking about, right

1:01:08.320 --> 1:01:11.120
<v Speaker 1>like it just it just drives us nuts, even if

1:01:11.120 --> 1:01:14.040
<v Speaker 1>the robot might have the better answer, right it just

1:01:14.320 --> 1:01:18.800
<v Speaker 1>we're human beings. So no, I'm convinced that you can't

1:01:18.840 --> 1:01:21.080
<v Speaker 1>run for president in twenty eight without an answer to

1:01:21.320 --> 1:01:23.320
<v Speaker 1>the fear of AI displacement.

1:01:23.880 --> 1:01:26.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I read your recent post about this. I thought

1:01:26.560 --> 1:01:28.840
<v Speaker 2>it was brilliant in terms of how it's getting politicized.

1:01:29.360 --> 1:01:32.600
<v Speaker 2>The analysis was absolutely spot on. Anybody who hasn't read it,

1:01:32.640 --> 1:01:34.480
<v Speaker 2>I would ask you to post it with your show

1:01:34.520 --> 1:01:37.640
<v Speaker 2>notes here because I think it's a great piece, really important,

1:01:38.080 --> 1:01:41.400
<v Speaker 2>and I think whichever party figures this out first is

1:01:41.440 --> 1:01:43.200
<v Speaker 2>going to have a huge advantage.

1:01:42.800 --> 1:01:43.560
<v Speaker 3>Because the frustration.

1:01:43.600 --> 1:01:45.200
<v Speaker 2>And I gotta tell you, Chuck, I asked Swing voters

1:01:45.200 --> 1:01:47.760
<v Speaker 2>about AI couple months ago. Yeah, and the thing that

1:01:47.840 --> 1:01:50.400
<v Speaker 2>came up was the loss of humanity exactly.

1:01:50.520 --> 1:01:52.640
<v Speaker 3>You're that's the biggest thing that scares.

1:01:52.240 --> 1:01:57.640
<v Speaker 1>Them it which again, that to me is gives me

1:01:57.680 --> 1:02:02.240
<v Speaker 1>hope because we're going to crave in person. I think

1:02:02.280 --> 1:02:04.800
<v Speaker 1>it's going to put a premium on in person. Again,

1:02:05.160 --> 1:02:09.080
<v Speaker 1>it's going to put a premium on seeing things for yourself.

1:02:10.800 --> 1:02:12.800
<v Speaker 1>In fact, I almost wondering, are we going to have

1:02:12.880 --> 1:02:17.040
<v Speaker 1>retail stores back where you don't necessarily buy the product there,

1:02:17.080 --> 1:02:18.960
<v Speaker 1>but you want to see and touch the product before

1:02:18.960 --> 1:02:22.320
<v Speaker 1>you order it online and have it delivered to your house. Yeah.

1:02:22.400 --> 1:02:25.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, you're seeing this touch grass movement right, people sing,

1:02:25.920 --> 1:02:28.640
<v Speaker 2>getting kids out and outdoors and touching the grass because

1:02:28.720 --> 1:02:31.000
<v Speaker 2>touching their screens isn't real. Yeah, there's a lot of

1:02:31.000 --> 1:02:32.880
<v Speaker 2>this stuff going on. I just to me, the question

1:02:32.960 --> 1:02:36.800
<v Speaker 2>is does how far is it AI able to penetrate

1:02:36.880 --> 1:02:39.960
<v Speaker 2>the population because it's so useful to the people that

1:02:40.000 --> 1:02:42.960
<v Speaker 2>they give up some of these more tangible things in reality,

1:02:43.040 --> 1:02:44.880
<v Speaker 2>and that time will tell how.

1:02:44.760 --> 1:02:46.480
<v Speaker 1>That plays out. All right, let me get you out

1:02:46.480 --> 1:02:49.720
<v Speaker 1>of here on this. One of my One of the

1:02:49.720 --> 1:02:54.080
<v Speaker 1>things I lament is the loss of regionalism, meaning the

1:02:54.480 --> 1:02:57.160
<v Speaker 1>suburb of Grand Rapids is no different than a suburb

1:02:57.200 --> 1:03:01.720
<v Speaker 1>of Roanoke. Right. You know, people in Atlanta have more

1:03:01.720 --> 1:03:04.320
<v Speaker 1>in common with people in Milwaukee than people in Atlanta have,

1:03:04.440 --> 1:03:07.280
<v Speaker 1>and north with people in Northwest Georgia et cetera, et cetera.

1:03:07.360 --> 1:03:11.640
<v Speaker 1>Did world Wisconsin versus Milwaukee, et cetera. You are the

1:03:11.680 --> 1:03:14.720
<v Speaker 1>seven swing states, you have the three Midwesterns, you have

1:03:14.760 --> 1:03:20.240
<v Speaker 1>the two Western and you have the essentially the two

1:03:20.360 --> 1:03:25.200
<v Speaker 1>sun Belt Any regionalism, you're just there anymore? Or are

1:03:25.240 --> 1:03:32.320
<v Speaker 1>all these voters in somewhat you know, homogenized American suburbanites.

1:03:33.720 --> 1:03:40.800
<v Speaker 2>Uh, They're mostly homogenized with odd flavors that will come

1:03:40.840 --> 1:03:45.680
<v Speaker 2>out at odd moments. So with Arizona swing voters, you'll

1:03:45.720 --> 1:03:48.880
<v Speaker 2>still get a little bit of the Barry gold Water Ish.

1:03:51.000 --> 1:03:53.600
<v Speaker 1>Arizona's got a little libertarian, a little more libertarian in

1:03:53.680 --> 1:03:55.680
<v Speaker 1>them than most of the other states.

1:03:55.440 --> 1:03:58.880
<v Speaker 3>Right, Yes, so you have more more of that with

1:03:58.960 --> 1:03:59.920
<v Speaker 3>the Pennsylvanians. Part.

1:04:00.320 --> 1:04:04.680
<v Speaker 2>The southeastern Pennsylvanian is just a very low level of

1:04:04.720 --> 1:04:07.320
<v Speaker 2>trust and belief in anything that anyone says.

1:04:07.760 --> 1:04:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

1:04:08.200 --> 1:04:10.920
<v Speaker 2>I found that over the years. In this region. It's

1:04:10.960 --> 1:04:14.800
<v Speaker 2>super super skeptical. I mean even more so. And I

1:04:14.880 --> 1:04:18.240
<v Speaker 2>just think the Upper Midwest folks, particularly, you know, the

1:04:18.760 --> 1:04:22.400
<v Speaker 2>michigan the Michiganders, there's just more of a salt of

1:04:22.440 --> 1:04:26.200
<v Speaker 2>the earth type of conversation with them. They just we

1:04:26.240 --> 1:04:29.480
<v Speaker 2>can just well, they were not happy with Trump in

1:04:29.560 --> 1:04:31.800
<v Speaker 2>March when I spoke to them about trade.

1:04:31.840 --> 1:04:33.120
<v Speaker 3>Boy, I was shocked.

1:04:33.160 --> 1:04:36.280
<v Speaker 2>At seven weeks into his administration, they were excoriating him

1:04:36.280 --> 1:04:36.920
<v Speaker 2>on that topic.

1:04:37.520 --> 1:04:40.959
<v Speaker 1>But Michigan of all places, right, which when we were

1:04:41.080 --> 1:04:44.360
<v Speaker 1>professionally growing up, you'd have thought, well, one state's gonna

1:04:44.360 --> 1:04:44.920
<v Speaker 1>like tariffs.

1:04:44.920 --> 1:04:48.680
<v Speaker 2>It's FISHI can yeah, But I went back there and

1:04:48.720 --> 1:04:51.480
<v Speaker 2>we did those in September and twelve out and thirteen

1:04:51.480 --> 1:04:54.320
<v Speaker 2>approved of the job he was doing. So you know, again,

1:04:54.400 --> 1:04:57.000
<v Speaker 2>it's it's this odd shift. There's no consistency month to month.

1:04:57.160 --> 1:04:59.800
<v Speaker 2>But to answer your question about geography, yeah, it just

1:05:00.080 --> 1:05:02.520
<v Speaker 2>you get it's the flavoring that's just a little bits

1:05:02.560 --> 1:05:05.200
<v Speaker 2>the seasoning. It's like pizza tastes different in different parts

1:05:05.240 --> 1:05:07.960
<v Speaker 2>of the country, but it's still basically pizza wherever you go,

1:05:08.720 --> 1:05:09.960
<v Speaker 2>and that's kind of the difference.

1:05:10.840 --> 1:05:13.440
<v Speaker 1>Rich, I am such a geek for this stuff. I

1:05:13.440 --> 1:05:17.880
<v Speaker 1>could keep going. This is terrific. I where could I know?

1:05:17.920 --> 1:05:20.400
<v Speaker 1>You have a YouTube channel? Tell people where they can

1:05:20.440 --> 1:05:23.400
<v Speaker 1>find these because you do. You do put up monthly reports.

1:05:23.720 --> 1:05:24.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thank you.

1:05:24.440 --> 1:05:27.320
<v Speaker 2>So the easiest place to find us is at Swing

1:05:27.680 --> 1:05:31.440
<v Speaker 2>Voter Project dot com. On that page you will find

1:05:31.480 --> 1:05:34.760
<v Speaker 2>each month's highlight and that reel is on YouTube, so

1:05:34.760 --> 1:05:37.640
<v Speaker 2>if you click it, it'll just play within YouTube, and

1:05:38.000 --> 1:05:40.040
<v Speaker 2>I would encourage you to just watch those videos. And

1:05:40.080 --> 1:05:42.400
<v Speaker 2>you can also sign up for a monthly update on

1:05:42.480 --> 1:05:46.320
<v Speaker 2>the Swing Voter Project dot com page. So just go there,

1:05:46.440 --> 1:05:49.160
<v Speaker 2>give us your email address. We will not sell you anything,

1:05:49.240 --> 1:05:51.600
<v Speaker 2>there's nothing for sale. We don't charge for this stuff,

1:05:52.400 --> 1:05:55.520
<v Speaker 2>and just join us on Swing Voter Project dot com.

1:05:55.720 --> 1:05:56.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm telling you a whole bunch of them are going

1:05:57.040 --> 1:05:58.760
<v Speaker 1>to be like kick I want one hundred and twenty

1:05:58.800 --> 1:06:00.000
<v Speaker 1>five bucks to give you my opinion.

1:06:00.720 --> 1:06:02.920
<v Speaker 2>They probably not swing voters though, but if they are,

1:06:03.200 --> 1:06:05.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, they can go to Sego by way, go

1:06:05.280 --> 1:06:08.640
<v Speaker 2>to sago dot com if you want to register to

1:06:08.640 --> 1:06:09.800
<v Speaker 2>participate in focus groups.

1:06:09.880 --> 1:06:13.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh well that's nice. Do you do you still

1:06:13.440 --> 1:06:19.800
<v Speaker 1>do uh, quantitative polling as much? And you know how

1:06:19.880 --> 1:06:22.720
<v Speaker 1>much does the focus group influence your questionnaire? Now? Yeah,

1:06:22.760 --> 1:06:24.280
<v Speaker 1>I do. I really I don't.

1:06:24.320 --> 1:06:25.640
<v Speaker 3>Personally don't do a huge amount of it.

1:06:25.680 --> 1:06:28.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm actually associated with a remarkable company called Alpha Rock.

1:06:29.120 --> 1:06:31.600
<v Speaker 2>Do you and I could talk about offline that has

1:06:31.960 --> 1:06:36.520
<v Speaker 2>transforming the polling process and looking at longitudinality in questions

1:06:36.640 --> 1:06:39.680
<v Speaker 2>in a way that point of time polling doesn't quick

1:06:39.760 --> 1:06:43.440
<v Speaker 2>turnaround in polling. They have a tool called Ockham Ockham's

1:06:43.480 --> 1:06:46.960
<v Speaker 2>Razor that is just remarkable that a lot of trade

1:06:46.960 --> 1:06:49.640
<v Speaker 2>associations and others in DC are using. So I've been

1:06:49.680 --> 1:06:51.920
<v Speaker 2>working with them to try to get some quant around

1:06:52.040 --> 1:06:56.360
<v Speaker 2>some of my focus grouping. But basically, uh, that world

1:06:56.480 --> 1:06:59.560
<v Speaker 2>is getting up ended in a way that is well,

1:07:00.480 --> 1:07:02.000
<v Speaker 2>deeply needed and well deserved.

1:07:03.320 --> 1:07:05.920
<v Speaker 1>I feel like the best of you know, like my

1:07:06.040 --> 1:07:08.400
<v Speaker 1>favorite thing that our polsters at NBC when I was

1:07:08.480 --> 1:07:10.680
<v Speaker 1>working with them, used to do was I loved a

1:07:10.760 --> 1:07:14.040
<v Speaker 1>good open end right where because to me, what that

1:07:14.640 --> 1:07:17.720
<v Speaker 1>was was about helping you formulate a better question down

1:07:17.760 --> 1:07:20.840
<v Speaker 1>the road. Absolutely, and that and that to me is

1:07:21.080 --> 1:07:25.479
<v Speaker 1>you know I've we've for for for years, would would

1:07:25.760 --> 1:07:28.680
<v Speaker 1>would reword questions based on stuff we'd see in focus

1:07:28.800 --> 1:07:29.520
<v Speaker 1>groups like yours.

1:07:29.880 --> 1:07:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, the thing's happening now you're alluded to at

1:07:32.080 --> 1:07:34.640
<v Speaker 2>the very beginning so well and where we started, which

1:07:34.760 --> 1:07:37.480
<v Speaker 2>is that this OUPHAM tool is able to do quaal

1:07:37.720 --> 1:07:38.440
<v Speaker 2>at scale.

1:07:39.040 --> 1:07:40.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so they.

1:07:40.520 --> 1:07:42.880
<v Speaker 2>Able to do basically one on one interviews not yet

1:07:42.920 --> 1:07:45.400
<v Speaker 2>in a focus group, and one on ones an AI

1:07:45.680 --> 1:07:46.440
<v Speaker 2>by yourself.

1:07:46.920 --> 1:07:50.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, well I thought about it, but the I

1:07:50.240 --> 1:07:51.440
<v Speaker 1>know somebody who's trying it.

1:07:52.080 --> 1:07:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No, it's I think it's an important thing to

1:07:54.000 --> 1:07:56.040
<v Speaker 2>try to do because there if you can do this

1:07:56.160 --> 1:07:58.480
<v Speaker 2>at scale, the insights will be so much richer than

1:07:58.520 --> 1:08:00.640
<v Speaker 2>what I can find obviously, which all people.

1:08:00.800 --> 1:08:03.640
<v Speaker 1>So much, so much more a thousand that are focus

1:08:03.680 --> 1:08:06.680
<v Speaker 1>grouped rather than just you know, multiple choice.

1:08:07.240 --> 1:08:10.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's remarkable and also be able to interpret the answers,

1:08:10.320 --> 1:08:14.840
<v Speaker 2>ask meaningful follow ups, categorize the answers, which is what

1:08:14.920 --> 1:08:15.560
<v Speaker 2>this tool can do.

1:08:16.240 --> 1:08:18.400
<v Speaker 3>So this whole world is getting up ended.

1:08:18.960 --> 1:08:20.920
<v Speaker 2>I've been joking that I'll be replaced by a bot,

1:08:20.960 --> 1:08:23.400
<v Speaker 2>and my respondents will be replaced by bots, and it'll

1:08:23.439 --> 1:08:26.240
<v Speaker 2>be one AI asking other AI questions and kicking out

1:08:26.240 --> 1:08:27.360
<v Speaker 2>a report in ten seconds.

1:08:27.400 --> 1:08:30.439
<v Speaker 1>And that's going to mean you know what you're gonna

1:08:30.479 --> 1:08:34.760
<v Speaker 1>end up doing, create bullshit correct, and then you're going

1:08:34.840 --> 1:08:37.479
<v Speaker 1>to be going to an actual event in order to

1:08:37.560 --> 1:08:40.519
<v Speaker 1>talk to actual people again. Like we're probably about five

1:08:40.600 --> 1:08:43.400
<v Speaker 1>years away from that. Let's go back to shopping malls

1:08:43.439 --> 1:08:46.240
<v Speaker 1>and survey people that way, right, like in person with

1:08:46.320 --> 1:08:49.160
<v Speaker 1>the clipboard. Everything old will be new again if we're not,

1:08:49.320 --> 1:08:53.280
<v Speaker 1>if we ai ai it up too much, that's right, exactly, Rich.

1:08:53.560 --> 1:08:56.000
<v Speaker 1>This was fantastic. Thank you, my friend, Thank you chucking

1:08:56.080 --> 1:08:56.680
<v Speaker 1>honor to do it.