1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I want justice. 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace available now only on Fox Nation. 3 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: We have another pandemic, another epidemic to deal with right 4 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: here in our own back yard. Child abuse, horrific child abuse, 5 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: even cases where parents video and photo the abuse of 6 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: their child. Won't you help us stop the epidemic of 7 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: child abuse in our country today? Stories of children horribly 8 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: abused and how justice unfolds. I Nancy Grace. This is 9 00:00:50,880 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Crime Stories with Nancy Child abuse across our country. 10 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: Every day I hear about a new and horrific case, 11 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: and I wonder will it ever stop? I mean it, 12 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: See Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being 13 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: with us on Fox Nation in Serious one eleven XM, 14 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: the Triumph Channel. You know, all the years I prosecuted 15 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: violent crimes, whenever I got a case regarding child abuse, 16 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: it was already a felony, and the more I would 17 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: investigate it, the more I would discover it had been 18 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: going on for years. So how do you stop that? 19 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: And how does it go on with no one saying 20 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: a word? First, I want to turn to the case 21 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: of Gabriel. Take a listen to our friends at CBS 22 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: two LA. This is Christie Hardo. In the hours before 23 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: his death, Gabriel lay in an emergency root, his skull fractured, 24 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: He'd been burned, apparently tied up, he was missing, He 25 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: had bab pellets lodged in his lung and scrolled up. 26 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: Even the soles of his feet were bruised and swollen. 27 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: A physician in the emergency room said, someone has pulled 28 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: out this child's teeth and it was not a doctor, 29 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: not a dentist. I just thought, over and over again, 30 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: how did this happen? Mary was not the social worker 31 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: who investigated the reports of abuse, including the complaints from 32 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: Gabriel's own school. That social worker was also fired. Mary 33 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: got the case after when the family was referred to therapy. 34 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: She says she never saw anything troubling, but on one occasion, 35 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: Mary spotted a bruise under Gabriel's eye and a BB 36 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: pellet in his chest. I asked them about it, and 37 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,959 Speaker 1: the explanation from gabriel brother and sister and mom. Her 38 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: story was that some little kid in the apartment complex, 39 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: his mom got him a baby gun and he was 40 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: shooting everything and he turned around a shot Gabriel therapy, therapy, 41 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: my rear end when you have this type of physical 42 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: abuse going on on a little child and d Facts 43 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: Department Family Shoulder Services sends them to therapy. H No, 44 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: what a travesty with me an all star panel joining me. 45 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: John Cardillo, former ny PD host America talks on Newsmax TV. 46 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of 47 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon with me, special guest 48 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrist, Atlanta, Georgia, and boy do I 49 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: need a shrink? And joining us here at Fox Nation 50 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: and Serious X one eleven, a long time colleague, and 51 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: dare I say, friend Ernie Allen, who ran the National 52 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: Center for Missing and Exploited Children, the former president and 53 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: CEO for I know it had to be twenty years 54 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: now at Alan Global Consulting. Levi page you with me 55 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter Levi this is a yes, no, 56 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: pretend you on cross exam? Yes? No? Did I hear 57 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: this correctly? That they were sent to therapy? Yes? Okay, 58 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrist joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, 59 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: Doctor Arnold I know that you believe counseling and psychiatry, 60 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: psychology therapy can cure a lot of ailments. But I believe, 61 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: doctor Angela, that by the time a child is beaten 62 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: and has a baby and his scrotum, I think that's 63 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: the time somebody needs to go to jail. The time 64 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: for talk is over, doctor Angela. My mind is open. 65 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: Please dissuade me. Well. I actually agree with you, Nancy. 66 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: I feel like perhaps in this case, maybe it was 67 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: a form was passing the box. Maybe they just wanted 68 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: somebody else to take care of us, and they use 69 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: that as a last resort. If they were going to 70 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: have some sort of therapy, it needed to happen a 71 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: long time ago. And even though I know that family 72 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: preservation is a very important thing, they should have taken 73 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: the child out of the home. Man, it would be 74 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: a cold day in h E double L. I don't 75 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: know if you know that I gave up cursing when 76 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: I had the twins. I would try to preserve this family. 77 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: I think two major compositis. This family need to be 78 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: not in the jail, but under the jail. I'm talking 79 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: about mommy and daddy. To Ernie Allen, joining me former 80 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: president and CEO International and National Center for Missing and 81 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: Exploited Children. You know, when I dealt with Nickma, I 82 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: was usually working on a missing child, Ernie, but it's 83 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 1: also missing and exploited. And when I hear the injuries 84 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: to a little Gabriel, I almost forced Jack to stop 85 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: running the sound because I sometimes just can't take it. Ernie. 86 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: I don't know how you deal with it for all 87 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: those years and still do. Fancy this remains a huge problem. 88 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: Seven point eight million children were reported last year involving 89 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: maltreatment cases, six hundred and seventy eight thousand confirmed victims, 90 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: of which eighteen hundred of those Ernie, Ernie, Ernie. Wait 91 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:28,679 Speaker 1: a minute, you got me drinking from the fire, Hidjet. 92 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: Would you give me those numbers again, because I'm going 93 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: to quote you. Go ahead one more time. Place. Yeah. 94 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: This is this based on HHS child maltreatment numbers four 95 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: point three million referrals involving seven point eight million children, 96 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: of which six hundred and seventy eight thousand were confirmed 97 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: victims with nearly eighteen hundred fatalities. So cases like Gabriels 98 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: are just one of thousands in this country. The system 99 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: is overwhelmed social workers. Child protective services workers are doing 100 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: heroic things, but the caseloads are too large, they're not manageable, 101 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: and we're losing this battle. Ernie, I thought you may 102 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: have some good news for me, But you know what, 103 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: Ernie Allen, I'd rather hear it. I'd rather hear the 104 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: truth that here's some airbrush edited version of what the 105 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: truth is. We are losing the battle. And I remember 106 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: back to doctor Angela Arnold new to us here at 107 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: Fox Nation in series X one eleven renowned psychiatrists. Doctor Angela. 108 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: I remember one case in particular, so many of them, 109 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: but one in particular. I had to leave the courtroom. 110 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: And I remember that because that never happened to me 111 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: in ten years of putting felonies in front of juris. Now, 112 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: I might get sick to my stomach or not be 113 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: able to eat during the lunch break, but it was 114 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: very rare. One of two occasions in ten years I 115 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: had to ask for a recess. I had a little girl. 116 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: She was twenty three months old, and she had been 117 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: beaten into a vegetative state. She would never come out 118 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:21,679 Speaker 1: of it, Doctor Angela, And just because she was a child, 119 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: a lot of the records, and the medical records, especially 120 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: because of hippo, were kept secret from me. But we 121 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: were going to trial, and of course Grady the hospital 122 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 1: got them over there the morning of trial, when I'd 123 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: been trying to get them for a month. But the 124 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 1: morning of trial and I got them, and the defense 125 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: decided on a bench trial in front of just the judge. 126 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: And I was thumbing through the medical records because I 127 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: just managed to get them, and I saw where this 128 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: little twenty three month little girl had been raped in 129 00:08:55,280 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: a vegetative state, and I got so overwhelmed I had 130 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: to leave the courtroom and get myself together, get back 131 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: in there, try the case. You'll be happy to know 132 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: its convicted. But that afternoon, doctor Angela, I had to 133 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: pull the car off the right I remember it was 134 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: raining on the way home, because I just felt I 135 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: couldn't take it anymore. And Ernie's right, Doctor Angela Arnold, 136 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: we are losing the battle, and I don't understand why. 137 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: I believe that's part of the reason that we are 138 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: losing the battle, Nancy, is because this problem starts so 139 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 1: much earlier than when we've than when these abused children 140 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 1: are found. It goes back so far in these people's history. 141 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: These these people, and I'm not making an excuse for them, 142 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: but they've been abused. They live in poverty. Often. The 143 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: mother of Gabriel was they found her to be intellectually disadvantaged, 144 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: so she was she wasn't the brightest ball on the block. Okay, 145 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: how do you? I don't know, doctor Angela. Arnold kind 146 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: of sounds like you're making an excuse. Oh my star, 147 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: I'm looking at a picture of Gabriel right now, Oh 148 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: dear lord, and haven't got rest his little soul crime 149 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, I want you to take 150 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: a listen now to CBS to l A reporter Amy Johnson, 151 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: Gabriel had unconditional love for you, and you took advantage 152 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: of that, knowing he will never turn you in. But 153 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: Gabriel's teacher, Jennifer Garcia did report the abuse to a hotline. However, 154 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: social workers left Gabriel in the home where he was 155 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: tortured and starved and eventually beaten to death by Againe 156 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: and Fernandez. I know I'm not alone in hoping that 157 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: they experienced the same abuse in their lifetime, and worse, 158 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: they are evil people for what they did. She described 159 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: Gabriel is a kind and helpful boy. She no longer 160 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: uses his student number. I don't assign number twenty to 161 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: another student because I feel it. It's only his number now, 162 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: and it's a way for me to honor him in 163 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: my classroom five years after the young boy's death. Justice, 164 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: I'm just doing my job, that's it. Deputy da John Haitommi, 165 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: a father of two young children, was emotional. I think 166 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: Gabe was infected everybody, including me. You were hearing La 167 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: reporter Amy Johnson, and you were also hearing his teacher. 168 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: And I appreciate the sentiment of her retiring his number 169 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: because she felt so strong as she wanted to do something. 170 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: But isn't it the law? To John Cardillo, a former 171 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: NYPD host, America talks on Newsmax TV. John Cardillo, the 172 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: law is that teachers must immediately report even if they 173 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: suspect child abuse. Correct. I can't quite hear you, but 174 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: I thank you, Santaha. Listen now to La reporter at 175 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: CBS two. The judge told that couple that he hopes 176 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: that they wake up at night and are tortured by 177 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: thoughts of what they've done. To this young boy. This 178 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: is a case that has really touched so many because 179 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: of this sheer brutality of the torture and abuse this 180 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: young boy by the two people who should have been 181 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: taken care of him. The conduct was horrendous and humane 182 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 1: and nothing short of evil. After calling this the worst 183 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 1: case of abuse he has seen in his twenty years 184 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: on the bench, Judge George Lamelli sentenced Isaro Aguire to 185 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: death for torturing and murdering eight year old Gabriel Fernandez. 186 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: His girlfriend. The boy's mother, Pearl Fernandez, received life in 187 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: prison for her role. It is unimaginable the pain that 188 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: this child probably endured. Gabriel had a crack skull, broken ribs, burns, 189 00:12:50,720 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: and baby pellets launched in his body. Guys, I cut 190 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: it there because I didn't want to hear any more 191 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: about it. It's you know, and that's a problem. Ernie 192 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: Allen joining me from Alan Global Consulting, former president National 193 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: Center Missing Exported Children. You know, when I prosecute cases, 194 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: I have to listen and I have to relay every 195 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: horrible detail to a jury. And it's easy for us 196 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: to just say, hey, Jackie, stop, I don't want to 197 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: hear that anymore. But the truth is we cannot turn 198 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 1: away im pretend it's not happening, Ernie, or it will 199 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: keep happening. It is happening. It's happening too frequently. It's 200 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: happening in many cases with greater and greater severity, and 201 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: the system is overwhelmed. That social worker in Gabriel's case 202 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: had two hundred and eighty cases. She was trying to manage, 203 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: and the pearl the mother was manipulative. She basically had 204 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: an explanation for everything. I'm not defending the social workers, 205 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: but the system has got to improve, and we've got 206 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: some link social services more with law enforcement and healthcare 207 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: and therapists and others. There has to be a team 208 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: approach to protect these children. Gabriel Fernandez, may he rest 209 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: in peace. As you see, the abuse went on well 210 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: well over at least two years. For two years. You 211 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: want to tell me, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, that 212 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: nobody knew, no family member, no relative, no neighbor, nobody knew, 213 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: No teacher noticed, to Bruce nothing. It's an impossibility, Nancy, 214 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: no right thinking person could ignore this as child had 215 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: what we commonly refer to as raccoon eye, which means 216 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: that he had an indwelling fracture in his skull that 217 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: more than likely had been there for some time, and 218 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: it was further exacerbated by these just powerful strikes that 219 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: he had been sustaining. If folks at home will literally 220 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: just kind of run their hand above their right ear 221 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: to the what's referred to as the parietal area of 222 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: their skull, he actually had a depressed skull fracture up 223 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: there that they described with crepitous. And what that means 224 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,479 Speaker 1: is if you think a peanut brittle that's literally fractured 225 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: and covered with skin. That's what his skull felt like, Nancy. 226 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: He had signs of torture. He had been restrained by 227 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: the ankles. He had bruises all over the extent of 228 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: the surface of his body. And one of the ways 229 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: that we learned to try to figure out how long 230 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: something has been going on is to analyze the bruising. 231 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: And the nurses at the hospital were actually talking about 232 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: and they were in tears. They were talking about how 233 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: they could see bruises that were resolving. That means, you know, 234 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: when they turned yellow and green and that sort of thing. 235 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: And yet there were fresh bruising, so he was being 236 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: hammered upon day after day after day. You know what, Nancy, 237 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: there was so much blood evidence at the scene that 238 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: the crime scene investigators actually ran out of markers at 239 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: the scene in order to annotate the various bloodstains that 240 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: were all over that house. That's how bad this was. 241 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: You know it hurts me so much is that I 242 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: know this wasn't a one time incident, like jo Scott 243 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: Morgan is describing for us, that this child's life, his 244 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: everyday life. He woke up in fear, He was in 245 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: fear all day. He was in fear when he had 246 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: come home from school because he knew he was going 247 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: to be tortured and beaten. And when I look at 248 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: his face, I see my son's face, I see my 249 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: daughter's face. We are talking about the epidemic in our 250 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: country of child abuse, and now I want you to 251 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: go to another child and listen to our friends at 252 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: ku are L eight. This is Rachel Louie's just torture, 253 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: a word used more than once by Gallatin County Associate 254 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: Attorney Beyorn Boyer Am. The systematic torture in beatings are 255 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: perpetrated on the victim in this case that led to 256 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: his death. The preliminary report was blunt forced trauma to 257 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: the back of James Head. Court documents reveal a horrific timeline. 258 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: Detectives found Hurley to be covered with injuries, having lived 259 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: with bats and sassa for about two years. After Hurley's 260 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: father passed away in twenty eighteen, his mother tried to call, 261 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: with documents showing bats blocked her from reaching him. Bat's 262 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: friend says there was a breaking point. I knew something 263 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: went wrong, and I encouraged her repeatedly to get him 264 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: some help and have him put somewhere, and she just 265 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: really expressed the cheap just did not. Investigators found places 266 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: in the home where large amounts of blood were cleaned 267 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: with vinegar. Then they found videos. She's on a lot 268 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: of the videos that show the torture to the show boy. 269 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: She's in the videos scene straggling. What kind of person 270 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: only abuses a child but takes a video of it? 271 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: That was actually our friends at KBZK. Cody Boyer speaking 272 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: and the Gallatin County Assistant Attorney called the abuse systematic 273 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,479 Speaker 1: torture that was beyond Boyer speaking with the DA's office 274 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: systematic torture. I'm going to go back to a special 275 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: guest joining us today in addition to Ernie Allen, former 276 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: president CEO of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, 277 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: to psychiatrists in the Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angela Arnold. Doctor Arnold, 278 00:18:55,200 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: you know, I take videos of Okay, the day I 279 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: had forced the children to catillium and it was the 280 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: big ball I guess you might want to call. It 281 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: was at the school and it was lady's choice. The 282 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: girls picked who they wanted to dance, and of course 283 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: Lucy made a beeline for her own brother, and I had, 284 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: you know, sneakily volunteered to be a chaperone so I 285 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: could see the whole thing because appearance weren't allowed intil 286 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: the last fifteen minutes. And I saw her do that, 287 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: and I ran over there, of course, embarrassing them both, 288 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: busting up in there, and took a video of them 289 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: dancing the swing. That was the highlight of my weekend, 290 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: you know, getting a video of them all dressed up 291 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: doing the swing. These people took a video of abuse. 292 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: Now I'm trying to get my mind around that if 293 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: the mom was doing it for probitive purposes. She never 294 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: did anything with the video. Other people were begging her 295 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: to go to law enforcement. What psyche is it that 296 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: videos abuse? Doctor Angela, Well, I'm done. You have to 297 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 1: also what did they do with the video after that? 298 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: Did they rewatch it? Because this is one of the 299 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: most horristic things I've ever heard. I can't even imagine 300 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: doing this to a child, much less, like you said, 301 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: taking a video of it. I want to give you 302 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: the child abuse hotline eight hundred four two two four 303 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: four or five three repeat eight hundred four two two 304 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: four four five three. Don't do what these people did, 305 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: and say to the mom, you should really report this BS. 306 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: You report it, you know jos got The other night, 307 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: we took the twins out from Mexican and we were 308 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: sitting there and I heard a mom yell and I 309 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 1: turned around to look, and she was yelling at She 310 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: had three boys and one could not have been over two, 311 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 1: and was sitting right by the table and the floor 312 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: playing It was doing nothing wrong. It was outdoor seating, 313 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: very laid back, and I gave her, of course the 314 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: evil eye as she looked at me, and then she 315 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: looked down really quickly. Well, a few minutes later, I 316 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: heard the dad yell I mean in a mean way, 317 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: and I turned around. I thought he was going to 318 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: hit the child. And I was so proud of my husband, 319 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: that big look. He actually said something right there from 320 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: his seat. He actually yelled it over at the family 321 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: about yelling at their children. And you know, later Lucy said, Mom, 322 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: did you hear Dad yell out in the restaurant? I said, yes, 323 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: I did, and I'm so proud of him. And by 324 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: the way, I got their tag number and I plan 325 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: on doing my own little investigation of them. But Joe Scott, 326 00:21:54,760 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: people see abuse all the time, and they do. Yeah, 327 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: they absolutely don't, Nancy. They're they're afraid to engage with folks, 328 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: even you know, even at the cost of a child's 329 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: well welfare and well being. And they refuse to interject 330 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: themselves into this. And this has been an ongoing problem 331 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: in our society for years now. It's just, you know, 332 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: we can go all the way back to the sixties. 333 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: You know, that that infamous night, you know, when all 334 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: of the people in New York, you know, kind of 335 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: gathered around that one neighborhood and watched that woman being beaten, 336 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: and that was the first time in history, you know 337 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: where we heard that, And it's just this ongoing thing 338 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: where people will not interject themselves into a conversation or 339 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: into a problem. I gotta tell you, if David h 340 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 1: shouted at me, he'd have my attention. You're right, he 341 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: is a big lug. But it's a dangerous situation that 342 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: we're in, and particularly you know when we think about 343 00:22:55,040 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: defacts and them not fully being engaged in the lives 344 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: of these children. There they're the stop gap there, that 345 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 1: firewall that are supposed to protect and the system is 346 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: absolutely positively broken. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, we have 347 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: all worked so hard to bring to you Don't Be 348 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: a Victim, Fighting Back against America's Crime Wave, a brand 349 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: new book. After interviewing literally hundreds of crime victims and police, 350 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: we put our knowledge into Don't Be a Victim. You 351 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: can pre order now go to Crime online dot Com. 352 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: Pre order now, and know that portions of our proceeds 353 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,959 Speaker 1: goes to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. 354 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Great everybody, thank you for being 355 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and series See eleven. 356 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: The epidemic of child abuse goes on in our country. 357 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: We can put a man on the moon. We can 358 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: have robotics going up and down the aisles at Amazon warehouses, 359 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: we can have robots that take care of you when 360 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: you're sick, but we can't stop child abuse. I am 361 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: now talking about a little boy named James Hurley. Listen 362 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: to our frenzy ku R L eight Rachel Louise just 363 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 1: Our court documents say that Hurley's grandparents and his fourteen 364 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: year old uncle regularly abused the boy, forcing him to 365 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: stand and sit and strenuous positions for long periods of time, 366 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: with uncle even making a wooden paddle to hit him 367 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: an Investigators say many of these incidents were recorded on 368 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: cell phone video and shared in text messages. Bats The 369 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 1: boy's grandmother told investigators the fourteen year old uncle and 370 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: the boy got into a quote blood bath fight in 371 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: late January. On the morning fa very third, she says 372 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: she found the boy dead. Experts concluded Hurley died as 373 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: a result of blunt force trauma to the head. Galton 374 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: County Sheriff Brian Gootkin said, in his twenty seven years 375 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: in law enforcement, he's ever seen a case like this. 376 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: It's personal, it's personal to all of us. I mean, 377 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: it's it's the worst, worst type of case that you 378 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: can deal with. And I guess the you know, you 379 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: just try and find some justice for Alex. That's exactly 380 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: what our job is. You're hearing Schriff Brian Getkin speaking 381 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: straight out to Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page. 382 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: LEVI tell me about this little boy, James Hurley. So, Nancy, 383 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: he's twelve years old, and he was found dead at 384 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: his grandparents' home where he was living, and he was 385 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: beaten to death, and detectives were suspicious. They noted that 386 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: he had wounds and contusions all over his body, and 387 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: then they got search warrants for the video of cell 388 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: phones belonging to his grandparents and his own grandmother, forty 389 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: eight year old Patricia Batts, had a video, multiple videos 390 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: where this twelve year old little boy was being beaten 391 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: repeatedly in the home. And this is what's disturbing Nancy. 392 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: Investigators say that the family beat him with makeship objects, 393 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: they took food away from him, they strangled him. And 394 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: the people that are charged in his death are his grandparents, 395 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: Patricia Batts, James Sasser Junior, his grandfather and his fourteen 396 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: year old uncle who's a juvenile who's being charged as 397 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: an adult, James Sasser the third. And there is an 398 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: eighteen year old friend of the family named gah Rausch, 399 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: and he was arrested. Nancy. This is what's interesting. They 400 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: had arrested the family members, and the Sheriff's department put 401 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: up a post with their mug shots on their Facebook 402 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: page reporting about the arrest, and this family friend named 403 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: Gage Rout commented defending them, saying they would never do this. Well, 404 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 1: you know, while looking at is somebody did it? What? Well, Nancy, 405 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: they looked at that family friend's profile picture and they say, hey, 406 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: he looks familiar. So they pulled up the video of 407 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: this child being abused and he was one of the abusers. 408 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: So they arrested him and charged him. Okay, you know what, 409 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: John Cardillo, a former NYPD has America Talks Knees MaxTV. 410 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: John Cardillo, You've seen a lot, but this sounds like 411 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: a family affair where everyone in the family picked on 412 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 1: this one little boy. Yeah, Nancy, I mean looks you 413 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: find that bad guys tend to congregating groups, right, they 414 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: find each other. You see it with gangs like on 415 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: A thirteen, and you see it with the grooming gangs 416 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: in Europe, the pedophile grooming gangs. So these abuses, these 417 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: groups of abusers are really no different birds of a 418 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: feather flock together. People that are going to abuse a 419 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: child to the point of killing that child aren't going 420 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: to be hanging around with me or you, or Ernie 421 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: Allen or the doctors on the show. They're going to 422 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 1: be hanging around with like minded people because ultimately you're 423 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: gonna let that person into your home. They're gonna know 424 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: what you're doing. Right. A drug dealer hangs out with 425 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: a drug dealer because they've got there, or drug users 426 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: because they've got fashions of drugs in the home, they've 427 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: got weapons in the home. But part of it, going 428 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: back to something you asked earlier, is the why these 429 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: things happen, why we can't get in front of it. 430 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: Child abuse, unlike a lot of other crimes or law enforcements, 431 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: is very reactive. Right, you don't know about it until 432 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: it's happened, and chances are the bruises and the cuts 433 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: and the scrapes start presenting after it's been happening for 434 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: a while so the very nature of it makes it 435 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: almost impossible for law enforcement to be proactive. I find 436 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: it very unusual, Doctor Angela Arnold joining me psychiatrists the 437 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angela, I noticed in many cases that 438 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: even when there are several children and the family, the 439 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: parents seem to identify one child, very often, one child 440 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: that they're gonna pick on, that they're going to abuse 441 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: and torture, and the other children, whether they join in 442 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: or not, become complicit in it that they're afraid to 443 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: tell anybody they see it happening, they see their sibling 444 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: tortured until they die. I find it interesting how the 445 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: abusers pick one of the children as their target, and 446 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: also the aunt in this case, Madison sass Are textured 447 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: her boyfriend the child should quote go die in the 448 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: woods and describe him as a quote piece of crap 449 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: off my effing shoe. And that's according to the Billings Gazette. 450 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: I mean, these people, no, no shame. Not only do 451 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: they torture the child, they take videos of it, and 452 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: they write about it and text about it and nobody 453 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: does anything. It's amazing to me, Nancy. It's not unusual 454 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: for in a family situation, in a family dynamic, for 455 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: someone to become the identified patient. So that's what's that's 456 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,479 Speaker 1: also what I'm relating this to these You know, they 457 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: picked one child, it's typically not the oldest child that 458 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: they picked. They pick one child. That child becomes the abused. 459 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: And then there's also something calls called flois adieu where 460 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: everyone the mental illness or the evil that perpetuates in 461 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: this family, everyone starts to experience it. Everyone living in 462 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: the family starts to become part of that. But what 463 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: did you name? What was the name of that doctor, 464 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold fois adieu? So idea, that's two correct, what's 465 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: the first move? Okay, well, understanding Typically it's a typically 466 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: that that typically describes when one of the one person 467 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: in the home is mentally ill and then the other 468 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: person starts to act inside of that person's mental illness. 469 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: So you're saying correct, And that's when basically the whole family, 470 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: whether they're doing the abuse themselves or not, somehow becomes 471 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: part of it. And also I noticed which we first 472 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: became aware of. I've known about it for many years 473 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: after prosecuting the withholding of food, but the public became 474 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: largely aware of it. After the House of Horrors in 475 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: California with Mommy Louise Turpin and her husband, they would 476 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: withhold food from all of their children and they would 477 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: eat like cakes and pies and food in front of them, 478 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: yet withhold them. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, I want 479 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: to switch now to the story of Eduardo Passo. Thank 480 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: you for being with us. This is a tough subject, 481 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: but the epidemic of child abuse and child murdyrs is burgeoning. 482 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: It's actually growing in the US, So thank you for 483 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: joining us here at Fox Nation in Sirius XM one eleven. 484 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our cut 485 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: eight and that is Fox fifty nine Indianapolis reporter Hailey Bull. 486 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: We're talking about a little boy named Edward. I did 487 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: everything I could, but it wasn't nothing worked. A spokesperson 488 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: for the Manitee County Sheriff's Office said they were called 489 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: by the school district to investigate a possible child abuse incident. 490 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: The spokesperson said they had incidents reported to them in 491 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: November of twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen. They investigated and 492 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: found nothing. Unity County Schools confirms Eduarda was withdrawn from 493 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: the district this past December to be homeschooled. He had 494 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: attended the district sporadically since twenty twelve. No one will listen, 495 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: and this happens now. Now my son is dead, But 496 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: Garcia wants people to listen to make sure this never 497 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: happens again. He had a horrible day. Yes, and you 498 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: don't even do that to an animal. Chain it up 499 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: like that and abused the way he was abused. She's right, 500 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: you don't even do that to an animal, much less 501 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: a beautiful baby boy like Edward, straight out to Crime 502 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page, Levi, I'm looking 503 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: at a photo of Edward right now, and that smile 504 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: is just breaking my heart. What happened, Levi? Well, Nancy. 505 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: Investigators were called to the Bloomington Hospital there in Monroe County, Indiana, 506 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: and twelve year old Eduardo Passo was there and he 507 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: was pronounced dead in the hospital. He was severely emaciated. 508 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: He weighed only fifty pounds and he had zero zero 509 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: percent body fat. Nancy and his father, Louis Passo Junior, 510 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: was charged with murder along with his mother, Dana Medina Florez. 511 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: They were also charged with neglect and battery. And what's 512 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: so disturbing, Nancy, is that there again they took photos 513 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: of the abuse, just like in the last case we 514 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: were talking about, and there was a photo of this 515 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: twelve year old little boy inside of a bathtub, tied 516 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: up with a dog shot caller around his neck. You know, 517 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: sometimes I don't even know what to say back. I 518 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: know I'm accused of interrupting and talking all the time, 519 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 1: but sometimes I don't know what to say back to 520 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: Ernie Allen. A special guest joining us today here at 521 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 1: Fox Nation is Sirius XM one to eleven. Ernie Allen, 522 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: former president of National Center Missing Exploited Children, now Alan 523 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: Global Consulting, still fighting for children, children He's never known, 524 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: he's never met, Ernie. Do you ever get to a 525 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: point where you're completely saturated, where you can't hear one 526 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: more word? Just a few moments? When I think about 527 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: them taking photos of the little boy as they're torturing him, 528 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: severely emaciated, chains and ropes, video of him wearing a 529 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: dog collar and a tub. How do you even wake up? Earnie? 530 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: It put one foot in front of the other. Well, 531 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: it's very difficult, Nancy, and it's easy to be overwhelmed 532 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 1: with the sheer magnitude of the numbers. But in my view, 533 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: we simply have to do a better job of dealing 534 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: with these children, one child at a time. Somebody should 535 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: have noticed edwardo. This didn't just happen overnight. This happened 536 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,240 Speaker 1: over a period of time. They pulled him out of school, 537 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: they homeschooled him. There were images, there were videos of 538 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:59,240 Speaker 1: the child being abused. So it's the system needs to improve. 539 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: We need more resources directed towards social services, and social 540 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: services needs to be willing to act. I mean, you're 541 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: not always going to have a smoking gun. If they're bruises, 542 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: somebody needs to as well. Here's the thing, how do 543 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: you mobilize witnesses? For instance, in the case that Joseph 544 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan referred to, the Kitty Genovisi case in New York, 545 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: it's a seminal case where people watched her being assaulted 546 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: and murdyerred, and nobody did a thing. They were watching 547 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: out their windows and did nothing, didn't speak up, didn't 548 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: say anything. And you know, I've done a crazy stuff before. 549 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: To Joseph Scott Morgan. I remember this was right before 550 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 1: the twins were born, and I had pulled into a 551 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: restaurant to get to go and a woman came up 552 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: to me with three little children and said she needed 553 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: money for a bus, and I gave her everything I had. 554 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: And then the next day, believe it or not, maybe no, no, 555 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: two or three days later I pulled back in and 556 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: got the car, and there she was again, dragging the 557 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:20,399 Speaker 1: children at night through a busy parking lot, and I 558 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: realized she lived right there in the area and was 559 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: using the children as props to get money. She was 560 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: getting a lot of money too, because I gave her 561 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 1: everything I had, and of course I badged her and 562 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: told her I was going to call de facts, and 563 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, I did. I did call 564 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: the police right then, dragging One of the children was 565 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: a babe in arms, one could hardly walk, and the 566 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: other looked like there were seven or eight and this 567 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: was a scam. And I saw her going over with 568 00:37:54,680 --> 00:38:00,359 Speaker 1: the children to a really nice car like a BMW. WHOA, 569 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: And it goes on and on and on, and nobody 570 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: says anything. Joe Scott, No, they don't, Nancy, and you're right. 571 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: Uh Uh, this idea of using the children as a 572 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,919 Speaker 1: prop and if I could just go back to one thing, 573 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 1: uh this, this thread that seems to run through through 574 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: many of these cases is this photography, edeography of documenting 575 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:30,320 Speaker 1: what they're doing. It's almost like these children are used 576 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: in a way to create this this other reality. And 577 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: I have to say, I think that there's probably a 578 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: sexual component to it too, to make it if it 579 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: couldn't get any worse, it's you know, you've hit the 580 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,359 Speaker 1: basement into pravity at this moment in time, because why 581 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: else would you why why else would you? Would you 582 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: have a little boy whose amation, whose body is literally 583 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: consuming itself because he has as as leave I said, 584 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: as zero fat, so his body's actually digesting. Okay, you 585 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: know what, Joe Scott, It's my fault because I asked 586 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: you and you told me sometimes you know. But here's 587 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: what I learned in court. No matter how awful the 588 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 1: facts are, I want to know him and I want 589 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: to tell them to the jury, and I want to 590 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: tell them to you today because we can stop this. 591 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 1: We can. It seems overwhelming, like this huge tide that 592 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: could sweep us away, but we can do something. Let 593 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,800 Speaker 1: me give you a number. Please, if you suspect, even 594 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: suspect of child abuse, please call this number. Eight hundred 595 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: four a child eight hundred four two two four four 596 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,280 Speaker 1: five three. If you suspect someone you work with, somebody 597 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: at school, a neighbor, somebody you see in the laundry, matter, 598 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,759 Speaker 1: the grocery store, abuse their child, please you can make 599 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: a difference, and you can save a child's life. You 600 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:06,399 Speaker 1: can and you will one eight hundred four two two 601 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: four four five three. We're talking about a little boy 602 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: right now, Edward Passo, who died after his parents allegedly 603 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: starved and abused him. Very often we see the mom 604 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 1: and the dad or one of them, but today we 605 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: highlighted stories that involved grandparents, stepmothers, boyfriends, non blood relatives 606 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,320 Speaker 1: brought into the home that then took part in horrific abuse. 607 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: All of these three children died. But it doesn't have 608 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:46,360 Speaker 1: to be that way. Please join us. If you have questions, 609 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: go to crime online dot com or eight hundred four 610 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: two two four four five three. I hope we can 611 00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: make a difference. Nancy Gray's crime story. Signing off good bye, 612 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: said