Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome back to a real time crime
Speaker 1: and welcome me back to America. Um baby in l A.
Speaker 1: And if you are looking at a clip of me,
Speaker 1: you can see we've got the murder board behind me,
Speaker 1: which only means one thing. I'm at home. Am I happy? No?
Speaker 1: I was just let's let's stop the facade. We don't
Speaker 1: have to pretend like you're happy to be back in
Speaker 1: your your apartment living room in Los Angeles while your
Speaker 1: boyfriend is over in Europe. You left for Europe for
Speaker 1: like You're like, I'm going for a long weekend. Five
Speaker 1: weeks later, she's like, I'm back. Here's what really happened, Dmitri.
Speaker 1: You didn't lay out the timeline correctly, and everyone deserve
Speaker 1: know the details. I was going to a comedy festival
Speaker 1: in Dubai for six days. Then some friends were like, hey,
Speaker 1: when you come to in Croatia with us before Dubai.
Speaker 1: Me having never been to Europe, never studied abroad, has
Speaker 1: never gone on vacation, was like, yeah, maybe I'll do it.
Speaker 1: And since I've never gone on vacation, I was basically
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, two and a half weeks
Speaker 1: out of America, this is insane. I shouldn't do this.
Speaker 1: This is crazy. So three days into my trip and
Speaker 1: a visa, my friend Danny was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: there's this um Jewish guy coming and you I should
Speaker 1: really get together. He's Australian. That was my Australian accent,
Speaker 1: and I hate when people push Jews together. So I
Speaker 1: was like, no, I don't want to meet this guy.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like we're not going to get along
Speaker 1: just because we're both Jewish, you know. And You're like, no,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get along because holy crapp, he's hot. There
Speaker 1: we go. I saw him and I was like, never mind,
Speaker 1: I'm in um and the rest was history. And so
Speaker 1: after Dubai, I went back to London, and then I
Speaker 1: went to the can Film Festival, and I went back
Speaker 1: to London, and then we went to Paris together, and
Speaker 1: then we went back to London and I met his family. Oops,
Speaker 1: I'll in into my ex in London who literally tackled
Speaker 1: me to the street in front of your new boy.
Speaker 1: He wasn't there, but he pulled me from here's the
Speaker 1: craziest thing. He found me in London, pulled me from
Speaker 1: behind and then tackled me down on onto the street
Speaker 1: and I literally didn't even scare. Was your ex boyfriend
Speaker 1: like a w w E wrestler or uh no. But
Speaker 1: the fact that I didn't scream, let's you know that,
Speaker 1: I'm just like prepared to die. I was like, well,
Speaker 1: all right, it just gave up. I guess you got
Speaker 1: to be that. In order to host a true crime podcast,
Speaker 1: you have to be okay with with whatever happens. I
Speaker 1: was like, well, this is it, you know, um. But anyway,
Speaker 1: you guys, this is not what this is about. I
Speaker 1: came here because I literally waited for the very last
Speaker 1: day to come home for Air Griffin's wedding, which is today.
Speaker 1: So go to Eric's wedding later. And if Eric wasn't
Speaker 1: getting married, I would have stayed in Europe. So we
Speaker 1: have Eric to thank for my grand return. Earn. Wait,
Speaker 1: so why didn't you bring um, why don't you bring
Speaker 1: your boyfriend back? He also has a wedding. Did Eric
Speaker 1: not give you a plus one? Yeah? Well no, Eric,
Speaker 1: Eric did give me a plus one ironically yesterday because like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we have a cancelation. You want to bring your boy
Speaker 1: and my keys in. He's been following your social media
Speaker 1: like crap. Well, Eric has heard of me talk about
Speaker 1: my sad seat of life literally for years now, so he,
Speaker 1: of all people, is very happy about this. But no,
Speaker 1: he couldn't come. He also has a wedding, but I'll
Speaker 1: see him in a couple of weeks. You guys, no
Speaker 1: one wants here about thank you. I think I think
Speaker 1: they deserved an update because I'm sure they've been following
Speaker 1: you on social media. I think they deserve to kind
Speaker 1: of hear the update and what's going on. But it's
Speaker 1: also understanding we don't want to lay it all out
Speaker 1: now because we want to save it for when he
Speaker 1: comes on. Yeah, but also, you know on my social media,
Speaker 1: I'm still single and all my clips are like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I'm single. And there was a couple of
Speaker 1: your story has got a couple of pictures. They look
Speaker 1: like engagement pictures. So I was gonna ask you about that.
Speaker 1: He only lost two thousand followers one photo of him,
Speaker 1: did you really? I lost two thousand followers, and then
Speaker 1: I posted some stories being like, look, people, at some point,
Speaker 1: I am going to find a guy who will stay forever.
Speaker 1: So if you're going to leave, just leave now, because
Speaker 1: if I don't know what you thought, did you think
Speaker 1: I was gonna marry you person I've never met from
Speaker 1: the internet, Like, what did you want? Yeah? But I
Speaker 1: mean you know so anyway, moral of a story is, uh,
Speaker 1: I haven't really released the crack in on Instagram yet,
Speaker 1: thank you. Speaking of boyfriends, our first hot topic today
Speaker 1: deals with a woman who allegedly films herself throwing her
Speaker 1: cheating mother's ashes in a body of water. Hm. The
Speaker 1: fact that you just said you've heard and seeing it all,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of our hot topics for today.
Speaker 1: Another hot topic will be discussing is an animal rescue
Speaker 1: ceo arrested after thirty dead cats and dogs found in
Speaker 1: her house. Finally rounding out with a socalled woman finding
Speaker 1: thirty six dollars in cash hidden in account she bought
Speaker 1: off Craigslist. And we have a very special guest today,
Speaker 1: Katinka Newman, who is a documentary filmmaker who created Girls
Speaker 1: Gone Wild Exposed, which will be airing Monday, doing thirteenth
Speaker 1: on t n T. I can't wait to talk to her.
Speaker 1: But let's go back to that first. Let's not over
Speaker 1: So she this woman had a boyfriend that cheated on
Speaker 1: her and her revenge was to film herself. By the way,
Speaker 1: when you film yourself, you can't self sticks. But you
Speaker 1: can't then say I didn't do it, because you may
Speaker 1: be evidence yourself. You're literally like, look at me, I
Speaker 1: did it, I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I did it.
Speaker 1: But this this this, So there's the two wrongs make
Speaker 1: a right thing right, but then there's like a worse
Speaker 1: or a worse wrong. Right. So I'm sorry that your
Speaker 1: boyfriend cheated on you. Okay, but if you want to,
Speaker 1: I don't really give ah, it seems like he cheated
Speaker 1: because she's a little crazy. Well yeah. And then so
Speaker 1: her getting back at him was to throw his mother's
Speaker 1: ashes in a lake, Like I don't think I'm sorry
Speaker 1: that he cheated on you. Move on. It was a
Speaker 1: boy friend. Sometimes this ship happens. I don't think it
Speaker 1: should happen, but sometimes it does. But two, then desecrate
Speaker 1: his mother's ashes in a lake, because that's like your
Speaker 1: revenge thing. Just lose the sympathy. The whole point of
Speaker 1: of doing something or saying you got cheated on, I assume,
Speaker 1: is to gain sympathy, and you've thrown that out the window.
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna have to call you, Dmitri popass Off.
Speaker 1: I think we're I think we're okay, Okay, you never mind. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So this forty year old woman, Augustine Gladden e in
Speaker 1: May I mean okay. So this is nearly two years
Speaker 1: after she was accused of throwing her boyfriend's mother's ashes
Speaker 1: into Lake Worth Um had a video go viral on
Speaker 1: social media about her throwing the ashes the lake. Of course,
Speaker 1: it's always social media bringing things back into the light,
Speaker 1: use social sleuths. Apparently this happened in you know, covid
Speaker 1: made people do crazy things, but she cannot check off
Speaker 1: COVID for this one. This is all her babe. So
Speaker 1: apparently they were not a good terms, which is obvious.
Speaker 1: And then the man overheard a conversation between the suspect
Speaker 1: and her daughter in which she said she'd thrown the
Speaker 1: urn into the lake and then she later did admit
Speaker 1: to it, and a video posted to the social media
Speaker 1: platform TikTok l o l described the incident gain traction
Speaker 1: over the weekend, gaining more than the thirty thousand views,
Speaker 1: which should be honest, is not that name um. The video,
Speaker 1: which appears to be re enactment of the incident, received
Speaker 1: a hundred comments, and to be fair, I don't know
Speaker 1: why we're considering this viral like this is. You know,
Speaker 1: I got a hundred comments on bathing suit. I should
Speaker 1: have gotten more, to be fair, should have gotten more.
Speaker 1: It should have been illegal that I only got a hundred.
Speaker 1: But she's now facing an abuse of a corpse charge,
Speaker 1: which is a class A misdemeanor. I mean, that's class
Speaker 1: as Let me wow, thank you, thank you, welcome back
Speaker 1: to l a joke. I really appreciate it. Now let
Speaker 1: me ask you something to Metri. What's the craziest thing
Speaker 1: you've done or would do to get revenge on an
Speaker 1: unfaithful partner? Ear muffs to your wife? E exactly what
Speaker 1: I said. Played the sympathy card right, getting that the
Speaker 1: whole point of when you've been wrong, this is your
Speaker 1: prime opportunity to get to get sympathy and to get
Speaker 1: attention from other people. Just just own it. Once you
Speaker 1: do something wrong back, then you're just as bad, but
Speaker 1: in a different on a different stage. Well, Dmitri, thank
Speaker 1: you for asking me the same question in return. So
Speaker 1: here's literally Leah, how about you? You're not allowed to breathe, Dmitri.
Speaker 1: I'm well aware that you asked me a question so
Speaker 1: that you can answer and go ahead, what would you do?
Speaker 1: You know, that's like when someone says, like you text someone, hey,
Speaker 1: how are you? But really you're just trying to get
Speaker 1: the conversation going so you can talk about yourself anyway.
Speaker 1: Um Hey, Dmitri, Hey, how are you okay? So I
Speaker 1: will say that this was not intentional and it's not
Speaker 1: as weird or crazy at all as anyone would think.
Speaker 1: So I had suspected that my ex boyfriend was cheating
Speaker 1: on me with multiple women around in the world, which
Speaker 1: he was. It was a long story. So then there
Speaker 1: was one day where he was in Mexico l O
Speaker 1: L and he told me he was so tired. He
Speaker 1: was working on set and I had so much thing
Speaker 1: was like, oh, babe, I'm so sad for like, you know,
Speaker 1: you're you work so hard. You deserve sleep and you
Speaker 1: deserve all the best things. You're so hard working. I
Speaker 1: love you so much. And he's like, oh, I'm just
Speaker 1: going from set to sit. Did he say sex to
Speaker 1: sex or set to the set? L O L? Hurt
Speaker 1: my feelings one more time? In Dmitri, I might just
Speaker 1: cry about it, don't worry. I don't have any feelings left.
Speaker 1: Was it the antidepressants or is it the exhaustion? Who's
Speaker 1: to say so. Then so then there was this girl
Speaker 1: that he recently started following on Instagram. Um, at this time,
Speaker 1: on Instagram, you could still see who liked too his photos,
Speaker 1: so you were still able to you were still able
Speaker 1: to stalk feeble that right, right, he was liking all
Speaker 1: our photos. And then I saw that he had been
Speaker 1: commenting all this extremely flirty stuff on her photos, and
Speaker 1: he recently started following her. And then I saw that
Speaker 1: they were musical music festival together and she was posting
Speaker 1: like her eyes on him on her Instagram story and
Speaker 1: all this sort of stuff very benign. So then he
Speaker 1: came home and I asked him about her. I said, Hey,
Speaker 1: what's something going on that girl? And he was like,
Speaker 1: you're being crazy, nothing's going on with her. And she's
Speaker 1: an old friend, Oh, an old friend that you just
Speaker 1: happened to meet this weekend, someone you just started following
Speaker 1: because she's such an old friend. Anyway, So then the
Speaker 1: next weekend he's like he goes back to Mexico and
Speaker 1: he was like, oh, I'm so tired and going set
Speaker 1: to set again, and I have a little less sympathy
Speaker 1: this time. And I see that she happens to be
Speaker 1: on set from her Instagram stories because she's a little
Speaker 1: cloud chaser. He was well known person. Okay, So then
Speaker 1: I see in her Instagram story he was like, Babe,
Speaker 1: I can't make it back to America. I gotta shoot
Speaker 1: this whole weekend. And I was like, that's okay, I
Speaker 1: understand you're busy. Congratulations on being successful. I've seen her
Speaker 1: Instagram story that they she actually let me reverse. He
Speaker 1: flew to go see her in Guadalajara for the whole
Speaker 1: weekend and she's instagramming the fun. You were still together
Speaker 1: at this point. No, no, no. So once I saw
Speaker 1: that there had been some questionable moments in the past
Speaker 1: where I like blocked unblocked him, you know, went crazy.
Speaker 1: I was like, you're cheating on me and he was like, no, no,
Speaker 1: I just got um I caught something at the gym.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he did. I would rule that out either,
Speaker 1: and um, yeah, I caught something at the gym. So
Speaker 1: I didn't. And I didn't want you to think I
Speaker 1: was cheating on you with someone, so I didn't want
Speaker 1: to tell you I was home. When I was home,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of little white lies in there,
Speaker 1: I think along the way white lies are just full
Speaker 1: on lines. Anyway, more old story. So then I blocked
Speaker 1: him on everything. And at this time, I'm basically living
Speaker 1: with this guy. I had already moved out of my
Speaker 1: apartment and I was just about to leave to go
Speaker 1: to an event. So I had this is so random.
Speaker 1: I cut my hair, and I had intended to come
Speaker 1: back to the apartment, but I never went back to
Speaker 1: the apartment. And I left my hair, like my dead
Speaker 1: hair all over the floor. So weird, like piles of
Speaker 1: dead air everywhere. That's our social clip right there, no context,
Speaker 1: just I just left my dead hair all over the
Speaker 1: floor like I left the DNA. We know who did it.
Speaker 1: It was me. It's my hair on the floor. Is
Speaker 1: it's exactly the color of my hair because it's my hair,
Speaker 1: sure is. And um, I can only imagine since I
Speaker 1: blocked him, he tried getting in touch with me a bunch. Uh,
Speaker 1: he came home and just saw my hair everywhere. Anyway. Um,
Speaker 1: not to beat a dead hair. Still not as bad
Speaker 1: as throwing an urn of of of mother his mother's
Speaker 1: ashes and like, no, Dodd, Dodd, but it's not and
Speaker 1: it wasn't even revenge, it was unintentional. I just couldn't
Speaker 1: fathom the idea of going back there anyway. Um, So yeah,
Speaker 1: let's just move on. I think because I'm I think
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time talking about my ex boyfriend.
Speaker 1: I'm actually a little more nervous to hear what story
Speaker 1: you might have that goes along with this next one. Sorry,
Speaker 1: seeing the light fade from Dmitri's eyes the harrowing thing.
Speaker 1: So this woman is arrested after they find dead cats
Speaker 1: and two dead dogs and two dead cats that were
Speaker 1: decomposed and kept inside cages and creates in her home.
Speaker 1: And she was the CEO of an animal rescue so
Speaker 1: I think she I think she misinterpreted what that job entailed.
Speaker 1: Dear God. Apparently deputy has performed a welfare check at
Speaker 1: her home, Caroline Pennington's house. She's forty seven. Uh, this
Speaker 1: is May twenty second, So it does a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago after receiving calls about a smell of death
Speaker 1: at her house. Not even something weird's happening, the smell
Speaker 1: of death. Who called this in? I don't know who
Speaker 1: called it in, But I mean, obviously it must have
Speaker 1: been a neighbor or something. But it's twisted. This woman
Speaker 1: was the CEO of an animal rescue and somehow she
Speaker 1: got thirty animals into her home and it says that
Speaker 1: they died from um starvation and dehydration. So that that
Speaker 1: was my point. Clearly, she doesn't know what that job entails.
Speaker 1: Where was she rescuing from them from if she brought
Speaker 1: them home and left them to do, absolutely animal cruelty.
Speaker 1: But also, like, do you think that you would be
Speaker 1: able to identify the smell of I think it's probably
Speaker 1: a smell of like because people have reported like when
Speaker 1: it's usually like a dead body or something. But people
Speaker 1: people say, oh, it's just it's probably beyond a stench
Speaker 1: that you've ever comprehended. So you're like, this has got
Speaker 1: to be something bad. The other thing that's so odd
Speaker 1: is that apparently they've been deceased for a while. How
Speaker 1: did she live there? How did she physically live there?
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you not be able to breathe? I'm guessing she
Speaker 1: has some issues. She's not all there um clearly obviously
Speaker 1: to do any of the stuff that she has done.
Speaker 1: Um is sick and twisted, So it's a great question
Speaker 1: how did she live there? But it's kind of like
Speaker 1: who even needs an answer for that? Because if you're
Speaker 1: able to do the first part, the second part doesn't
Speaker 1: really the second part is not going to surprise. I mean,
Speaker 1: do you think she used her status as CEO and
Speaker 1: director of the animal rescue called Growl to steal donations
Speaker 1: meant for the care of animals? Mud? But what was
Speaker 1: she even doing with that money? Like it appears it's
Speaker 1: not as if she was taking care of herself or
Speaker 1: her home or what was she using the money for?
Speaker 1: Kind of confusing. I don't condone and scams like that, obviously,
Speaker 1: and especially not when you're harming animals. But I mean,
Speaker 1: this is gonna sound so think it through though. If
Speaker 1: you're taking the money and you're taking me up, you're
Speaker 1: just bringing them home and then leaving him dead and
Speaker 1: you're in your house or your apartment, it doesn't it
Speaker 1: a huge mental disconnect here obviously for many reasons, but
Speaker 1: you couldn't even execute this. What do you think that
Speaker 1: she'll get charged with? And do you think that she'll
Speaker 1: file for mental owners I think that's what I think
Speaker 1: that's the hip thing to do. The trendy thing to
Speaker 1: do now is to is to say, oh, is mental
Speaker 1: illness because we're probably not there to think of it, right,
Speaker 1: because maybe they do have a mental illness or they
Speaker 1: obviously have some sort of mental illness to be able
Speaker 1: to do something like this. But two then be like,
Speaker 1: you know, they get a lawyer, and a lawyer says, well,
Speaker 1: here's what we're gonna do, and that's where the whole
Speaker 1: I just I understand that everybody deserves a lawyer, but
Speaker 1: that's where this kind of stuff bothers me is because
Speaker 1: don't come in and give them something that might get
Speaker 1: them off, because they don't deserve to get off, and
Speaker 1: they don't deserve to make up reasons why they can
Speaker 1: get out of something. Just lay out the truth and
Speaker 1: I let the jury decide. And guys, that was Dmitri
Speaker 1: Pappus on getting off. I don't think that was the illegal.
Speaker 1: Uh all right. We don't have a lot of time
Speaker 1: today because we have an incredible interview coming up, So
Speaker 1: I just want to, do you mind if we just
Speaker 1: run through this last story to me, because I think
Speaker 1: it's we're leaving it on an upbeat. I think we
Speaker 1: should do that before we were the guest. I think
Speaker 1: let's let's have an upbeat story. And this is a
Speaker 1: wild story because I just want to say good people
Speaker 1: like this I think are rare. And it sounds like
Speaker 1: this woman found got odd, which most of us need
Speaker 1: to do. Let me listen. Okay, this so cold woman
Speaker 1: finds thirty six thousand dollars in cash in cold art
Speaker 1: cash hidden in her couch that she bought on craigslist.
Speaker 1: Like okay, and here's what happens is in one of
Speaker 1: the pillows. And she said she was never tempted to
Speaker 1: keep what she found. She immediately returned the money to
Speaker 1: the family who gave her the furniture. She said, God
Speaker 1: has been kind to me and my children. They're all
Speaker 1: alive and well I have been beautiful grandchildren. So what
Speaker 1: can I ever ask of God? Yeah? Thirty six dollars? Okay?
Speaker 1: So she said he was browsing online ads for new
Speaker 1: furniture and she saw some free items free, so she
Speaker 1: clicked on the first thing that came to mind that
Speaker 1: the family wanted to give away was a sofa and
Speaker 1: everything in their bedroom. And she said she thought it
Speaker 1: was maybe a gimmick and it wasn't a gimmick. The
Speaker 1: family just wanted to give away the furniture and explain
Speaker 1: that a loved one had recently passed and that they
Speaker 1: were just liquidating everything they owned. So the sofa and
Speaker 1: the chair fit perfectly into her home, and when she
Speaker 1: was inspecting them, she just found thirty six thousand dollars
Speaker 1: of cash and envelopes. And when she returned the cash
Speaker 1: to the family, they said that they had also found
Speaker 1: other cash inside the house, but only a few hundred dollars,
Speaker 1: which is I mean, this is all crazy. Also, I
Speaker 1: just will say my Jewish grandmother did this as well.
Speaker 1: She had money in books and in in pillow cases
Speaker 1: and just like a whole bunch of interesting things like that.
Speaker 1: But anyway, as a thank you, they agreed to pay
Speaker 1: for a new refrigerator for her and gave her very
Speaker 1: I mean, if you found thirty six hundred dollars in
Speaker 1: the second hand couch dollars, I think I'm I think
Speaker 1: I'm I'm notifying the people, I honestly do. I think
Speaker 1: one part of me would probably a little scared to
Speaker 1: be like, do they know? And now they're gonna come
Speaker 1: and get it at some point. So I'd like to
Speaker 1: to take out the portion where they come breaking into
Speaker 1: my house to take it back. Maybe they were hiding
Speaker 1: it from someone and how to get it out of
Speaker 1: the house. I don't want to be the target from
Speaker 1: somebody else. But also, you know, I can't sit here
Speaker 1: and preach that. I think people should do the right
Speaker 1: thing more often. And I'd be like, oh, if I
Speaker 1: found thirty six thou dollars in a couch where I
Speaker 1: knew where the couch came from, if I got the
Speaker 1: couch from like a second hand store, maybe it's different.
Speaker 1: I probably hold on the money. I thought it was
Speaker 1: drug money. That was my first thought, right, was that
Speaker 1: this is dirty money, and that's so terrifying. My second
Speaker 1: thought was could I pay off my student loans in cash?
Speaker 1: And the answer is no, not even close. But the
Speaker 1: thing is so my My first and um, I'm know
Speaker 1: we're gonna go because we have a guest, But my
Speaker 1: thing is my first thing was like, you know what,
Speaker 1: who who hides thirty six thousand dollars and then forgets
Speaker 1: like you sell a couch, whatever you do, you don't
Speaker 1: remember you put it there. But then it said that
Speaker 1: a lovel one had passed, so clearly the loved one
Speaker 1: probably hit it there and they were just getting murder
Speaker 1: of the furniture. So then I really do feel badly
Speaker 1: for them, Yeah, of course. And it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: the money and for the family. Do you think they
Speaker 1: should have given her more money? I probably would have
Speaker 1: given her, like I don't know, thousand dollars and you
Speaker 1: get twenty two hundred and a new fridge. Oh, this
Speaker 1: is like the prices, right, it is like the press, right,
Speaker 1: the fridge and you get a fridge and you that's oprah.
Speaker 1: I probably would have done five thousands. Yeah, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have that. That was the number that came to me
Speaker 1: to look at us, look at us a little five
Speaker 1: thousand airs. But also you know, it's interesting like I
Speaker 1: found something valuable in an unexpected place once too, I
Speaker 1: found a British Jewish boyfriend and abisa, which is like
Speaker 1: I literally fell in love and a hopeless placed. So anyway,
Speaker 1: you guys let us know in the comments on at
Speaker 1: Real Time Crime Pod how much money you would have
Speaker 1: given her back. And we gotta go to break because
Speaker 1: we're about to talk to a Girl's Gone wild. Bosed
Speaker 1: documentary filmmaker and we're about to hear everything, all the
Speaker 1: dirty secrets about Girls Gone Wild that we have not
Speaker 1: heard about. So stay tuned, don't touch that dial. We'll
Speaker 1: be right back and we're back. Hello, everyone, Welcome back
Speaker 1: from our break. I hope you enjoyed whatever ad you
Speaker 1: listen to. I know I did. Guys, this part of
Speaker 1: the episode is really special. We have with us an
Speaker 1: incredible award winning documentary filmmaker, director, and writer who created
Speaker 1: Girls Gone Wild Exposed, which is airing Monday June on
Speaker 1: t n T. Her name is Katinka Blackford Newman. Katinka. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're very glad to have you here today and I
Speaker 1: am just so excited about Girls Gone Wild Exposed, which
Speaker 1: is airing Monday, June on t NT, the day before
Speaker 1: my birthday. Early birthday gift for me, Katinka. So, you're
Speaker 1: an award winning documentary filmmaker, director, writer, and you've been
Speaker 1: in the TV business for over twenty five years, so
Speaker 1: you know a good story when you hear one. And
Speaker 1: we've got a million questions for you about Girls Gone
Speaker 1: Wild Exposed, Why you got involved, what intrigued you about it?
Speaker 1: And we can get into all of that in just
Speaker 1: a second, but For those of you who don't know
Speaker 1: what Girl Has Gone Wild is because you've been lynn
Speaker 1: living under a rock. Let's talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: what Girls Gone Wild Exposed will uncover. It will uncover
Speaker 1: the truth behind former Hollywood it boy Joe Francis as
Speaker 1: he continues to evade justice and reveals for the first
Speaker 1: time audio recording a verbal altercation between Francis and his
Speaker 1: estranged wife, plus young women's account of being exploited, coerced,
Speaker 1: and assaulted while Francis raked in millions of dollars. On June,
Speaker 1: Will air Girls Gone Wild Exposed, taking viewers beyond the
Speaker 1: harmless fun of what T shirt competitions and bus fueled
Speaker 1: spring breaks and into dark back rooms with Joe Francis,
Speaker 1: where girls were coerced to take part in actions far
Speaker 1: more sinister than flashing on a beach. The show documents
Speaker 1: frances is increasingly bizarre and violent downward spile, which all
Speaker 1: played out in the public eye while he continued to
Speaker 1: rub shoulders with some of Hollywood's most popular stars. I'm
Speaker 1: sure you know a lot of them. With first time
Speaker 1: exclusive accounts, the two hour episode uncovers an audio recording
Speaker 1: of a verbal altercation between Frances and his estranged wife,
Speaker 1: along with interviews from the women who say their lives
Speaker 1: were ruined and who are now battling to reclaim their
Speaker 1: identities by sharing their stories, some of whom were even
Speaker 1: on the covers of these videos without ever even knowing it.
Speaker 1: All right, Katenka so pleased to be here. It was
Speaker 1: so happy to have you. And I mean, everyone knows
Speaker 1: about Girls Gone Wild. This is a huge sensation that
Speaker 1: took America by storm. And I guess we're curious to
Speaker 1: know what attracted you to the Girls Gone Wild story
Speaker 1: in the first place, and how did this whole project
Speaker 1: come about? Well, I guess as a as a film
Speaker 1: like filmmaker, I like to give a voice to ordinary people. Um.
Speaker 1: And it struck struck me that there was that there
Speaker 1: was definitely going to be a story behind this. But
Speaker 1: what I didn't realize I thought to begin with that
Speaker 1: I was going to be making a film about a
Speaker 1: sleazy pornographer. Had no idea the extent of the abuse
Speaker 1: um that was behind the Girls Gone Wild empire. UM
Speaker 1: so Joe Francis. He basically was given a free pass
Speaker 1: by the entertainment industry, by the Celebsit that he hung
Speaker 1: out with um and women trusted him. People trusted him
Speaker 1: because he rubbed shoulders with the Kardashians and m Brad Pitt,
Speaker 1: Jennifer Andison go on and so forth. Um So, to
Speaker 1: begin with, I thought it was I thought that we
Speaker 1: were going to be making something that that was was
Speaker 1: just looking perhaps at the that that you know, things
Speaker 1: weren't quite as they seemed, and that there would be something,
Speaker 1: you know, beyond the kind of the girls flashing the
Speaker 1: camera the camera, and so you didn't know how right
Speaker 1: you were. I didn't know how what wright it was
Speaker 1: absolutely right. So, um, it turned out to be a
Speaker 1: much bigger story I was. I was genuinely shocked by
Speaker 1: some of the footage that I saw. So basically what
Speaker 1: was happening is that girls were being filmed without there,
Speaker 1: without even knowing that the cameras were there. So some
Speaker 1: some girls were taking part in bikini contests and they
Speaker 1: had no idea that the cameras were there, and then
Speaker 1: they would discover many years later that they were had
Speaker 1: been cut into the Girl's Gone World videos. But worst
Speaker 1: of all, there were girls who were some some were underage,
Speaker 1: but some had just turned eighteen. They were they were
Speaker 1: applied with drink by Joe Francis and his cameramen, and
Speaker 1: they were then asked to sign very complex legal documents,
Speaker 1: and then he and his camera member would persuade them
Speaker 1: to take part in really hardcore girl on girl sex
Speaker 1: scenes that they would never ever usually have taken part in,
Speaker 1: and then they would wake up the next morning think,
Speaker 1: oh God, what what what did I do? And of
Speaker 1: course that they had signed away all of their rights
Speaker 1: and that's what it just still out there. It's interesting
Speaker 1: because you when you say, you know, it's it seemed
Speaker 1: one thing and I do you know, this was at
Speaker 1: the time where all this kind of reality stuff was
Speaker 1: really booming, and so people thought, oh, I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: on camera, but it was really was portrayed in Hollywood
Speaker 1: and everywhere. I'm proud to say that I never bought
Speaker 1: any of those and I never got into those, but
Speaker 1: it was there was portrayed that this was just people
Speaker 1: having fun and oh there's a camera, I'm gonna lift
Speaker 1: up my shirt, and it seemed very much like everybody was,
Speaker 1: you know, was going along with this is just people
Speaker 1: who wanted to do this. But then I watched them
Speaker 1: and deep down and after the years went on, we
Speaker 1: learned that it wasn't that. But I watched the trailer
Speaker 1: for your documentary, and uh, fantastic, by the way, even
Speaker 1: just that two and a half minutes. But when it goes, oh,
Speaker 1: and this, and girls were doing this and this, and
Speaker 1: then you cut to the one girl and she goes,
Speaker 1: it was the worst out of my life. And it's
Speaker 1: like that right there encapsulated everything that we didn't know
Speaker 1: what was happening. You know, we thought, as you explained,
Speaker 1: everybody thought, oh, they're doing this for a free T shirt,
Speaker 1: how exciting. But there was so much darkness behind it.
Speaker 1: And and also most of these women were never compensated, right,
Speaker 1: that's right. I mean he was making his hype was
Speaker 1: one while I was making a hundred million a year,
Speaker 1: and these girls were getting a T shirt or a hat.
Speaker 1: So it was built into his business model that he
Speaker 1: knew that he would be that that that he would
Speaker 1: be sued by some girls who are underage or whose
Speaker 1: image he had stolen or whatever. On the for the
Speaker 1: main part, he got away with it because once these girls,
Speaker 1: if they were eating her over, if they had signed
Speaker 1: that document, that was it. They had no rights whatsoever.
Speaker 1: But occasionally girls who were under age or whatever would
Speaker 1: would be able to sue. So that was in his
Speaker 1: business model. So there was a lawyer who was who
Speaker 1: was representing somebody and she had access to these documents
Speaker 1: and that was that was in his business plan that
Speaker 1: he was that millions would be spent on when he
Speaker 1: was dude, but then very very in terms of talent,
Speaker 1: it was just T shirts and hats. Can you imagine
Speaker 1: being So it's in your business model. Put some money
Speaker 1: aside for when we inevitably get sued for taking advantage
Speaker 1: of under each girls like that's that's in the budget.
Speaker 1: That's why do you think they didn't take any precautions
Speaker 1: to find out how old people were before they felt
Speaker 1: they did? They did, but girls, I mean did the
Speaker 1: sad things were so keen to do it that they
Speaker 1: would lie about their age. For me, I call girls
Speaker 1: gone wild. When I look at my credit card statement
Speaker 1: after going to the Chanel store in Paris getting that
Speaker 1: back for a while, Joe France has got nothing on me. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean this is honestly. This is also interesting because
Speaker 1: Joe touted female empowerment because he said that these women
Speaker 1: had a choice to participate in the videos he produced,
Speaker 1: just like you were saying, and when you factor in
Speaker 1: all the alcohol they consume, do you believe that they
Speaker 1: were actually at menage of or do you think that
Speaker 1: there was an element of female empowerment. I mean when
Speaker 1: you some of the some of the videos of just girls,
Speaker 1: you know, just taking taking their t shirt up and
Speaker 1: flashing their breasts and so on, you know, that's that's
Speaker 1: one thing. It's a completely different thing when you've got
Speaker 1: girls who are drunk scenes and really genuinely their lives
Speaker 1: were ruined by that. You know, years later that that
Speaker 1: footage was out there, they met, but at that point
Speaker 1: they they have got married and so on and so forth. Um,
Speaker 1: some were, um just kind of ostracized by their community
Speaker 1: because of what because of what had happened. So it
Speaker 1: really lives were being ruined. It. It just wasn't about
Speaker 1: girls flashing for the cameras. That's not what it was.
Speaker 1: That's really not what what that was about. That was
Speaker 1: just a front and behind that something much much since
Speaker 1: more sinister was going on. And as the as our
Speaker 1: research progressed, worse than that that that Joe Francis is
Speaker 1: a violent abuser. The film opens with an audio recording
Speaker 1: of him beating up his the mother of his children.
Speaker 1: M and there have been many charges of violence against him.
Speaker 1: So he's got form. And what's the current state of
Speaker 1: him right now? Is he out of the country in Mexico,
Speaker 1: So if he comes back to the to the States,
Speaker 1: he'd be arrested. And he's just living in a luxurious
Speaker 1: a state, right. Yeah, he has a beautiful Mexican villa.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, yeah, his wife, he's not his His wife
Speaker 1: is fighting for custody for the for the children. Embroiled
Speaker 1: in a in a custody battle, and he was saying
Speaker 1: that she kidnapped their two daughters. But I guess that
Speaker 1: she left saying that Francis was doing drugs and was
Speaker 1: abusive throughout all that, Right, isn't that what was going
Speaker 1: on there? I think he says that she could um,
Speaker 1: he says that she kidnapped the children. I doubt if
Speaker 1: she's got the children. They met because of the you know,
Speaker 1: America's most Hottest Woman in America competition, Right, that was
Speaker 1: how they met and she won, That's right. Yes, I
Speaker 1: think I think they may have met before that, but
Speaker 1: but she was but she was in the in the
Speaker 1: girl's Gone wild idears, So it was a competition for
Speaker 1: the position of his girlfriend. Well basically, well, you know,
Speaker 1: it's really interesting because there is a difference between flashing
Speaker 1: a camera, right, that doesn't necessarily ruin your or that's
Speaker 1: something that happens at Mardy Grad that that's HBO or
Speaker 1: Netflix say, but anything past that, you know, some people
Speaker 1: might even say doing that could can make your career
Speaker 1: as an actress. But anything past that is you know
Speaker 1: that that's exploiting someone if that is against their wishes.
Speaker 1: Well they were. They were completely drunk and and persuaded
Speaker 1: to sign very complex legal documents that company the rights
Speaker 1: to the right to sell that, to use that those
Speaker 1: images and sell them to to other distributors. So it
Speaker 1: was it's really sad. I mean when I when I
Speaker 1: watched those videos, it was just sickning. You could just
Speaker 1: so young and it kind of looked like child pornography,
Speaker 1: it really did. They were They looked so young, they
Speaker 1: were so impressionable, and they were they were being forced
Speaker 1: into into augy is and Joe was coaching the girls,
Speaker 1: right did jail All his camera men were choreographing these orgies.
Speaker 1: You know, millions of people were buying these videos. People
Speaker 1: saw what was going on, So it's really extraordinary that
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of allowed to character continue. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: they had infomercials, right and the and like the paid
Speaker 1: programming on TV where they would advertise these videos and
Speaker 1: people would order them and they would be sent and
Speaker 1: the fact just to think that that's what was on
Speaker 1: the videos and that was happening. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if it was just that he went about it legally
Speaker 1: from the perspective of being able to do anything about it,
Speaker 1: but that seems kind of ridiculous to be able to
Speaker 1: buy paid programming and have a commercial for people to
Speaker 1: order vhs and DVDs. Yeah, particularly that because they weren't
Speaker 1: being paid. I mean, it's quite different thing, isn't it.
Speaker 1: If you've got actors who are big, who who understand
Speaker 1: the contract that they're signing and elect to take part
Speaker 1: in a pornography scene because they're being properly paid, that's
Speaker 1: a completely different thing than girls who are barely legal
Speaker 1: of the legal age, you know, barely eighteen and some
Speaker 1: in some instances they were also underage because they lied
Speaker 1: about their age. But yes, say they are just eighteen, Um,
Speaker 1: they just don't know what they're doing. They're not getting
Speaker 1: paid for it at all. They're getting a hat or
Speaker 1: a T shirt. It's completely wrong and exploitative, and they're
Speaker 1: doing things they just clearly would never usually do. Right,
Speaker 1: And so Joe filed for bankruptcy before Mexicol with his
Speaker 1: ex Abbey and their two daughters. So do you think
Speaker 1: that he has as money to survive for a long time? Well,
Speaker 1: I know that you can that he rents out his
Speaker 1: Mexican villa for I think it's something like forty dollars
Speaker 1: a night, So he has a lot of celebrity guests.
Speaker 1: You know, what do you think the man? The man
Speaker 1: is as an entrepreneur through and through? Yeah? Right? He
Speaker 1: said he has two daughters. Now I don't know how
Speaker 1: old they are. But do you think or was there
Speaker 1: any kind of change in his mind at some point
Speaker 1: when he all of a sudden he was taking advantage
Speaker 1: of these girls for so long that when he had daughters.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it can change someone because you see something from
Speaker 1: a different perspective. Do you think there was any any
Speaker 1: bit of that? You think he's just as as sleezy
Speaker 1: now as he was then. Um, I think that Joe
Speaker 1: Francis has a lot of uncontrollable anger issues. Documentary reveals
Speaker 1: his impowering taken had taken out a restraining order against it.
Speaker 1: There were many charges and one of the reasons that
Speaker 1: he fled to Mexico was there was he if he
Speaker 1: came back, he would have to go to prison because
Speaker 1: there was a he was he was found guilty of
Speaker 1: assault and battery. He invited some girls back to his
Speaker 1: house um and wouldn't allow them to leave and and
Speaker 1: banged one of their heads against the ground. So that
Speaker 1: was the That was the final charge and led to
Speaker 1: him fleeing from Mexico as well. Of course there was
Speaker 1: the money issues as well. So he has huge violent
Speaker 1: he has huge issues with abuse and violence. And I
Speaker 1: don't think that that just changes overnight and ego because
Speaker 1: I are the line where he says, I'm Joe Francis,
Speaker 1: like he thinks, you know, clearly thinks he's untouchable, Like
Speaker 1: why would why would I have to answer to anything
Speaker 1: he has that he does have? Yeah, exactly, there is
Speaker 1: a sense of entitled mention, and I think that it's
Speaker 1: just not something that changes overnight. And the documentary dells
Speaker 1: into some into a possible EXPNA. She's not an excuse,
Speaker 1: but it's an explanation for where that comes from. He
Speaker 1: went to one of those, UM, one of those schools
Speaker 1: for troubled teens where the schools were very wealthy pet
Speaker 1: middle class parents send their kids who are a bit troublesome,
Speaker 1: and they are these schools are well. The school that
Speaker 1: he went to was shut down because of abuse, UM.
Speaker 1: And the regime is just horrendous. I mean literally, you're
Speaker 1: dropped their age for eleven or twelve, Your parents don't
Speaker 1: tell you that you're going there, that you think you're
Speaker 1: going somewhere completely different, and then you look up and
Speaker 1: they're driving down down the driveway and you don't. You
Speaker 1: don't see them for another twelve months. So he went
Speaker 1: to one of those schools, and many as the pupils
Speaker 1: who went there, UM, some have have killed themselves, some
Speaker 1: have drug problems, all sorts. So some of them have
Speaker 1: then turned and and done the same thing to other
Speaker 1: people where they lie to them. And of course, so
Speaker 1: it's this, it's what it's the situation, isn't it that
Speaker 1: the abuse becomes the abusers? Maybe is where his need
Speaker 1: to control who has come from. Well, I mean to
Speaker 1: me teaser, it just seems like a level of narcissism
Speaker 1: that's completely uncontrollable. He thinks he can get out of
Speaker 1: any legal issue. He's he's kicking and screaming, essentially being
Speaker 1: like do you know who I am? That's that his
Speaker 1: whole energy is do you know who I am? As
Speaker 1: they're showing him with Mario Lopez and you know he's
Speaker 1: rubbing shoulder. Is that the Kardashians. You know. It's also
Speaker 1: confusing because it's like, with all the money he had
Speaker 1: and all the success, how did he get so far
Speaker 1: in debt? Well, um, it's a good question, I guess. Um. Well,
Speaker 1: actually the main reason entirely because of that, because of
Speaker 1: that sense of entitlement and us and so he basically
Speaker 1: he um, uh, he lost a whole load of money
Speaker 1: in one of Steve Win's casinos. Um, and then he
Speaker 1: landed to win, Oh my god. And then there was
Speaker 1: a big court case and uh, and Joe lost. So
Speaker 1: he lost a huge amount of money from that. Now,
Speaker 1: let me ask you this. So when you started this
Speaker 1: documentary said Okay, I think I know what this is.
Speaker 1: This is going to be this you know, pornography thing,
Speaker 1: and then you realized that the depth in the darkness
Speaker 1: to it, was there ever point either where you wanted
Speaker 1: to stop or was it that you wanted to Then
Speaker 1: you became someone like I really want to get to
Speaker 1: the bottom of all this and expose all of this.
Speaker 1: And and I imagine there's a part of you that
Speaker 1: hopes that this guy will be caught and brought back
Speaker 1: in and justice will be served. For the justice will
Speaker 1: never be served because those people won't get it, will
Speaker 1: never wipe away from their lives, They'll never get their
Speaker 1: lives back and all the trauma that's happened to them,
Speaker 1: but justice being serving that he would have to, you know,
Speaker 1: suffer for what he's done as well. Well. The documentary
Speaker 1: was commissioned initially is a one hour and then when
Speaker 1: we realized what we had, the broadcaster asked if if
Speaker 1: we could make it into a two hour and we
Speaker 1: were like yeah, um. And I think for me the
Speaker 1: most important thing was that actually these women hadn't hadn't
Speaker 1: had a voice before. It takes a lot of courage
Speaker 1: to come out on TV and say that you've been
Speaker 1: raped by somebody who um, who has been a celebrity, UM.
Speaker 1: And I think that I think it's been amazing for
Speaker 1: the for the for the survivors to have had a
Speaker 1: voice in the documentary and to really be believed, because
Speaker 1: I think that I think that there's a sort of
Speaker 1: consensus that a TV documentary like this, we wouldn't give
Speaker 1: people a platform unless we were sure that their versions
Speaker 1: of events were extremely credible. We wouldn't take the risk.
Speaker 1: So it automatically gives people credibility. He doesn't it, um
Speaker 1: And I think that that has been massively empowering for
Speaker 1: women who have for the women who have been completely disempowered.
Speaker 1: And you'll see when you see the documentary, you'll see
Speaker 1: that these are women who were disbelieved and who in
Speaker 1: one instance, she she one a paltry amount in a
Speaker 1: in a case against France, so she got ten tho
Speaker 1: dollars because argued made some kind of argument that the
Speaker 1: company was going to again bankrupt or whatever, and that
Speaker 1: she should just take what she could get or whatever. Um. So,
Speaker 1: So for me, that was the most satisfying thing. Um.
Speaker 1: And he's an incredibly charming, convincing man who may well
Speaker 1: just believed his own publicity that you know, the things
Speaker 1: that he says that he genuine when you. You'll see
Speaker 1: in the documentary that he just says things that completely
Speaker 1: are not true. Like there's a video of him and
Speaker 1: there's some CCTV footage of him beating somebody up, and
Speaker 1: you just and you just then see him saying, oh,
Speaker 1: you know that, that he didn't do it, and I
Speaker 1: just wonder whether he believes it. But he actually just
Speaker 1: really has his own kind of version of events just
Speaker 1: playing in in his hair it and he is a
Speaker 1: complete He believes what he tells himself, and certainly a
Speaker 1: lot of people believe him because he's just so charming,
Speaker 1: so weird, because I just keep telling people I want
Speaker 1: an Oscar, but I didn't, and I really do believe it,
Speaker 1: I really do, you know. I think that is again
Speaker 1: just like a level of narcissism that's so out of control.
Speaker 1: And a lot of narcissists are very charming. That's why
Speaker 1: people fall for them, and that's why they make great
Speaker 1: business people. That's why you know, a lot of narcissists
Speaker 1: do very well financially when they're unmasked. This sort of
Speaker 1: behavior happens because the narcissists love themselves, right, so then
Speaker 1: they portray that and then people see that confidence, and
Speaker 1: it goes back to some of the best liars of
Speaker 1: the thing. It's that old Costanza, George Costanza from Seinfeld.
Speaker 1: He goes, it's not a lie if you believe it.
Speaker 1: And so it's very possible that Joe Francis thinks I
Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong. I didn't do this, I didn't
Speaker 1: do that, And it's like, that's very it's a very
Speaker 1: difficult case to argue with with someone. I think that
Speaker 1: that is uh. I think that's absolutely I think that
Speaker 1: you're right. I think he just believe it himself. So
Speaker 1: do you think that there's anything that people will find
Speaker 1: absolutely surprising while watching the documentary? Yes, I think the
Speaker 1: level of violence and I think the exploitation, but what
Speaker 1: was really going on behind closed doors? But these girls
Speaker 1: were just they were they were applied with drink. And
Speaker 1: when you hear we couldn't were not we weren't allowed
Speaker 1: to actually for obvious reasons, show the sex scenes. But
Speaker 1: you can hear the audio, which in some ways kind
Speaker 1: of like worse. I think people will just be totally shocked.
Speaker 1: And the bases, the kind of the the whole kind
Speaker 1: of business shenanigans, how he was with his business. You know,
Speaker 1: people were tricked into a continuity agreement, the way he
Speaker 1: was with his staff, so on and so forth, there
Speaker 1: was a lot that we couldn't put in. But I
Speaker 1: think the thing that we're in people's mind is um
Speaker 1: The audio recording of him beating up is the mother
Speaker 1: of his his children is absolutely chilling. I remember the
Speaker 1: first time I heard it, it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: it just made it was just sickly. It sounds like
Speaker 1: he's about to kill her. Was the recording from before
Speaker 1: Mexico or in Mexico, within Mexico recently she had recorded it?
Speaker 1: M hmm. I mean, also, do you think, after researching
Speaker 1: Joe that his intention when he set out to create
Speaker 1: this empire was for to get this out of hand?
Speaker 1: Like do you think that this was part of his
Speaker 1: nature and his business plan or do you think it
Speaker 1: started a little bit more innocently and then he just
Speaker 1: started spiraling and seeing what he could get. I think
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that question, but I
Speaker 1: think that if you don't have a moral compass, it
Speaker 1: doesn't take long. But that I mean, if you if
Speaker 1: you don't have any kind of parameters, we don't have
Speaker 1: any morality, I mean nothing was off limits for Joe Francis,
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing. So he started actually taking clips. So he
Speaker 1: worked as a production or he worked on a company
Speaker 1: of making a program called Band from Television UM and
Speaker 1: that was so basically he was he was that was
Speaker 1: a serious sort of taking kind of outtakes that no
Speaker 1: one could broadcast, and he would sort of package them up. Well,
Speaker 1: that kind of like shows a sense of tastelessness anyway,
Speaker 1: because they're kind of like accidents, you know, things that
Speaker 1: train crashes, things that nobody else would want to want
Speaker 1: to see, want to broadcast. So already you can see
Speaker 1: that that this is somebody who who has a lack
Speaker 1: of empathy that wants to make that you know that
Speaker 1: that doesn't care what he's broad asking, doesn't care about
Speaker 1: people's feelings, It doesn't have a sense of taste and decency,
Speaker 1: just doesn't have a kind of moral compass, doesn't care
Speaker 1: that he's making money out of people's misfortunes. And in
Speaker 1: some instances, you know, people there's footage of people dying.
Speaker 1: What did he care? It was gonna it was gonna
Speaker 1: he was going to make money out of it, noether
Speaker 1: that it was a train crash or skiing accident or whatever.
Speaker 1: If you if you could make money out of it, great, well. Okay, So,
Speaker 1: according to the Hollywood Reporter, Francis had been found guilty
Speaker 1: of false imprisonment, tax evasion, defamation, contempt of court, and
Speaker 1: assault causing great bodily injury, and he planned no contest
Speaker 1: to fill any child abuse and misdemeanor inner prostitution. Do
Speaker 1: you think that if he ever came back to America
Speaker 1: that he would be charged with anything else? Um M,
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that question. I mean
Speaker 1: that would that would be enough. I mean, he'd certainly
Speaker 1: have to start. He'd and me have to go to
Speaker 1: prison to serve the sentence that he run away from,
Speaker 1: that's for sure. And the woman whose head he bashed
Speaker 1: did five? She did? Yes, she did? And does she
Speaker 1: have any life long injuries? Um I don't know the
Speaker 1: answer to that question. We didn't talk to her. We
Speaker 1: talked to her. Uh. We talked to the policewoman who
Speaker 1: handled that case, and we read the files. But that
Speaker 1: seems to be his plans, his modus operanda. There were
Speaker 1: more than one occasions when one occasion when he would
Speaker 1: slam the head of a woman on the floor, but
Speaker 1: that was that's his that's his mode of attack more.
Speaker 1: He's done that more than once. Your claim to fame
Speaker 1: is making a fortune out of other people's misfortunes. It's
Speaker 1: pretty sick. Now. Question about the celebrit is because obviously
Speaker 1: you mentioned he ran with some with some high profile celebrities.
Speaker 1: I think I know the answer to this, But none
Speaker 1: of them are in the documentary. No, I mean we
Speaker 1: approached a hundred of his celebrity friends to ask them
Speaker 1: to take part, and maybe that I that makes sense,
Speaker 1: and as and it is, it is really shocking. You know,
Speaker 1: they couldn't claim that they didn't know what was going
Speaker 1: on at the time. I mean, Joe Francis was was
Speaker 1: in prison as in the early two thousand's, and he
Speaker 1: was imprisoned for quite serious charges, child pornography charges. But
Speaker 1: and actually you're seeing the documentary, the King Kardashian is
Speaker 1: wearing a T shirt saying free Joe Francis, and there's
Speaker 1: a clip of her mom, you know, talking to to
Speaker 1: phoning Joe in in jail, saying, oh, you know, we
Speaker 1: must get you out. I mean, it's extraordinary because Joe
Speaker 1: Francis wasn't he was in jail for serious charges and
Speaker 1: they continue to be his friend when he is after that.
Speaker 1: So I didn't know what will happen after the documentary
Speaker 1: as whether they will um separate themselves from him. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know the answer to that. Imagine this,
Speaker 1: that's that typical. We knew him as this, we didn't know.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like people that an hour or nowadays
Speaker 1: that the more recent one where I had never been
Speaker 1: to the island. I didn't know what went on on
Speaker 1: the island. You know. It's whenever someone's attached to someone
Speaker 1: and then it comes out that that they were like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're friends, and there's pictures. It's difficult to deny, as
Speaker 1: you just mentioned with with some of those people that
Speaker 1: they were in those scenes and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: it's like, well, I didn't know. So the next step
Speaker 1: is to come out and say I didn't know what
Speaker 1: was going on behind the scenes. I didn't know any
Speaker 1: of that, and I'm apault. So I expect a wave
Speaker 1: of that too when the documentary comes out. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: well you can't. They can't. They just can't say that
Speaker 1: he was in jail in the early two thousand's, you know,
Speaker 1: it was it was obvious what he was doing. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: this has excellent vibes all over. I mean the other thing,
Speaker 1: you know, it's the same thing as what Dmitri is saying.
Speaker 1: It's it's like when people try to say, can you
Speaker 1: separate the art from the artist? Where you know, it's
Speaker 1: like all these people who occurred, and like, can you
Speaker 1: separate Harvey Weinstein from all the amazing films he produced?
Speaker 1: Can you separate? And I think it's once you know
Speaker 1: the charges, and if you have eyeballs and you've been
Speaker 1: hanging out for a while, you have to know. There's
Speaker 1: no way you can't know. You know, it's just someone
Speaker 1: turning a blind die. I mean, they knew. I mean.
Speaker 1: The other thing is that this is feeling very reminiscent
Speaker 1: of Hugh Hefner and the Playboy enterprises. You know. The
Speaker 1: only difference I would say from what I'm hearing is
Speaker 1: that he wasn't as violent. It's exact from what we
Speaker 1: from what we've heard, you know, they think the violence
Speaker 1: is really what separates them. And of course you never
Speaker 1: was charged and ran to Mexico. Um, you know, do
Speaker 1: you think that do you think that there's any store
Speaker 1: of connection between Girls Gotten Wild and Playboy in that regard, Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know too much about Playboy, but it seems
Speaker 1: that it was a much more honest enterprise. I guess,
Speaker 1: you know, people were paid, weren't they knew what they
Speaker 1: were doing, they weren't underage, um, so it was it
Speaker 1: was more it was more transparent and more open, whereas
Speaker 1: this just this was just this was just kind of
Speaker 1: like it was not what it seemed at all. That
Speaker 1: was not it was not what it seemed. There was
Speaker 1: no integrity there, there was no sense of, you know,
Speaker 1: we're going to pay these people properly. They know what
Speaker 1: they're doing, they're signing contracts, they know they there's informed consent.
Speaker 1: This is so dark. This is like, this is like
Speaker 1: the guy like Hugh Hefton, And I'm not justifying anything
Speaker 1: he did, because we talked about his those exploits recently
Speaker 1: on episode two. But this is kind of like Joe
Speaker 1: Francis was just a guy that had came into money
Speaker 1: and didn't didn't give a ship and didn't care no repercussions,
Speaker 1: and and you know, you have to went about it
Speaker 1: a different way. And again I'm not justifying what he did.
Speaker 1: But Joe Francis just took didn't even take the precautions
Speaker 1: to make it look like a legitimate thing. He you know,
Speaker 1: he well, like you said, force people to sign things
Speaker 1: when they were drunk and this and that. He didn't
Speaker 1: pay him, and so it just seemed like he just thought, oh, Okay,
Speaker 1: I got this thing going, I'm just gonna And I
Speaker 1: imagine as the money came in and the celebrities hung
Speaker 1: out with him, he probably felt more and more invincible. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's right. I mean, he's he's just some
Speaker 1: of the that just he just has to win. And
Speaker 1: you see it over and over again that you're either
Speaker 1: you know, you're either with him or you're against him.
Speaker 1: So he would just turn against anybody that the people
Speaker 1: who had been friends who disagreed with him with him,
Speaker 1: and he would just turn against and immediately and he
Speaker 1: just and he just had to win. And that's why
Speaker 1: he lost a lot of money at the end um
Speaker 1: of his time in the in the in the States,
Speaker 1: because he just got into this battle with Steve Win
Speaker 1: which was ridiculous, and he ended up losing I think
Speaker 1: as much as fourty million, so he had I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, sorry, a little shot in freud up. But
Speaker 1: I mean it's also interesting because forty million to someone
Speaker 1: who's making way more than that almost seems like a
Speaker 1: drop in the butt when in the first two years
Speaker 1: girl has gone wild and made more than twenty mail
Speaker 1: and it was just in the first two years. It's like,
Speaker 1: how do you how how how do you get to
Speaker 1: such a level of narcissism that that you go against
Speaker 1: Steve could win in because because you're all this money
Speaker 1: for doing nothing, for for for basically partying. His entire
Speaker 1: life was a spring break and he's got hundreds of
Speaker 1: million dollars a roll again, So why wouldn't he think
Speaker 1: that he can do anything in the world. That's that's insane,
Speaker 1: Endemitri Springburn does for everything. You know, we don't wanna
Speaker 1: take up all your time because we could do this forever.
Speaker 1: But is there anything else that you would like to
Speaker 1: share about the documentary or about Joe Francis or anyone
Speaker 1: related to the documentary that you think our listeners. Um,
Speaker 1: I just I hope that the documentary um just gives
Speaker 1: courage to the victims of other abuses, ready to stand
Speaker 1: up and be and be counted, and that as a
Speaker 1: society that we will will listen victims of abuse, and
Speaker 1: that you know, however famous or rich these guys are,
Speaker 1: it's really important, isn't it that we um that we
Speaker 1: keep our eyes open for for abuse, And is that
Speaker 1: celebrities take responsibility who they're friends with because it's their
Speaker 1: endorsements that allow these guys to get away with it. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: I say, here, here's my pitch. I think we had
Speaker 1: a dog to Bounty on the wrong one episode and
Speaker 1: we're talking about Brian Landry at the time, and we
Speaker 1: weren't sure if he was in Mexico, and he was like,
Speaker 1: the FEDS can't go down to Mexico. He goes I can.
Speaker 1: So here's my pitch. Keep the cameras rolling, Let's talk
Speaker 1: to Dog and let's send him down there and drag
Speaker 1: Joe Francis aspect to the US. And he is a
Speaker 1: great cloud, great brilliant idea. Yeah, this is the case
Speaker 1: for Dog. Okay, Well, Katinka, we can watch Girls Gone
Speaker 1: Wild Exposed on June thirteen, that's Monday, June thirteen on
Speaker 1: t n T. We'll be tuning in. I can't wait
Speaker 1: to watch. After speaking with you and watching the trailer,
Speaker 1: I am I don't think excited is the right word,
Speaker 1: but I'm so intrigued about learning more about this case.
Speaker 1: And if you guys are in Mexico, keep an eye
Speaker 1: peeled for Joe Francis and don't give him your forty
Speaker 1: k and night to stay at a villa. There other
Speaker 1: villas in Mexico. You don't need to stay at his.
Speaker 1: Good Poka, Tanka, it has been wonderful chatting with you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time today. We appreciate
Speaker 1: you something and thank you so much. Have a great
Speaker 1: evening to thank you too, Tinka. Well, she was. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's always interesting seeing someone that's so delightful. But clearly
Speaker 1: she's you know, she knows what she's doing. She's good
Speaker 1: her job, and I mean it's weird to think of
Speaker 1: someone the type of person that you need to make
Speaker 1: something like that right. In order to expose someone for
Speaker 1: being a douche bag, you have to have someone that's
Speaker 1: really good and wants to call that stuff out. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I think, sorry, are we gonna Uh? I'm like, what
Speaker 1: order are we in? I think we're doing. I think
Speaker 1: we're just tagging it now and then we can go
Speaker 1: back and do the first part okay, great, um, so
Speaker 1: we'll just cut this part out. Thank you, Danielle Hi.
Speaker 1: All right, Wow, that was so specially getting to talk
Speaker 1: to Entaca. Wow, that was so special getting to speak
Speaker 1: with Katinka, And I'm very excited to tune in for
Speaker 1: the episode episode. This is what happens when you just
Speaker 1: get off a flight and then do a podcast. Hello,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, and you guys, this has been
Speaker 1: another episode of Real Time Crime. I've been Leo Lamar.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram, Twitter at Leo Lamar
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