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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome back to a real time crime

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Speaker 1: and welcome me back to America. Um baby in l A.

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Speaker 1: And if you are looking at a clip of me,

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Speaker 1: you can see we've got the murder board behind me,

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Speaker 1: which only means one thing. I'm at home. Am I happy? No?

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Speaker 1: I was just let's let's stop the facade. We don't

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Speaker 1: have to pretend like you're happy to be back in

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Speaker 1: your your apartment living room in Los Angeles while your

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Speaker 1: boyfriend is over in Europe. You left for Europe for

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Speaker 1: like You're like, I'm going for a long weekend. Five

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Speaker 1: weeks later, she's like, I'm back. Here's what really happened, Dmitri.

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Speaker 1: You didn't lay out the timeline correctly, and everyone deserve

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Speaker 1: know the details. I was going to a comedy festival

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Speaker 1: in Dubai for six days. Then some friends were like, hey,

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Speaker 1: when you come to in Croatia with us before Dubai.

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Speaker 1: Me having never been to Europe, never studied abroad, has

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Speaker 1: never gone on vacation, was like, yeah, maybe I'll do it.

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Speaker 1: And since I've never gone on vacation, I was basically

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Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, two and a half weeks

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Speaker 1: out of America, this is insane. I shouldn't do this.

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Speaker 1: This is crazy. So three days into my trip and

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Speaker 1: a visa, my friend Danny was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: there's this um Jewish guy coming and you I should

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Speaker 1: really get together. He's Australian. That was my Australian accent,

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Speaker 1: and I hate when people push Jews together. So I

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Speaker 1: was like, no, I don't want to meet this guy.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's like we're not going to get along

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Speaker 1: just because we're both Jewish, you know. And You're like, no,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get along because holy crapp, he's hot. There

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Speaker 1: we go. I saw him and I was like, never mind,

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Speaker 1: I'm in um and the rest was history. And so

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Speaker 1: after Dubai, I went back to London, and then I

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Speaker 1: went to the can Film Festival, and I went back

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Speaker 1: to London, and then we went to Paris together, and

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Speaker 1: then we went back to London and I met his family. Oops,

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Speaker 1: I'll in into my ex in London who literally tackled

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Speaker 1: me to the street in front of your new boy.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't there, but he pulled me from here's the

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Speaker 1: craziest thing. He found me in London, pulled me from

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Speaker 1: behind and then tackled me down on onto the street

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Speaker 1: and I literally didn't even scare. Was your ex boyfriend

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Speaker 1: like a w w E wrestler or uh no. But

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Speaker 1: the fact that I didn't scream, let's you know that,

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Speaker 1: I'm just like prepared to die. I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: all right, it just gave up. I guess you got

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Speaker 1: to be that. In order to host a true crime podcast,

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Speaker 1: you have to be okay with with whatever happens. I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, this is it, you know, um. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: you guys, this is not what this is about. I

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Speaker 1: came here because I literally waited for the very last

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Speaker 1: day to come home for Air Griffin's wedding, which is today.

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Speaker 1: So go to Eric's wedding later. And if Eric wasn't

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Speaker 1: getting married, I would have stayed in Europe. So we

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Speaker 1: have Eric to thank for my grand return. Earn. Wait,

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Speaker 1: so why didn't you bring um, why don't you bring

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Speaker 1: your boyfriend back? He also has a wedding. Did Eric

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Speaker 1: not give you a plus one? Yeah? Well no, Eric,

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Speaker 1: Eric did give me a plus one ironically yesterday because like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we have a cancelation. You want to bring your boy

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Speaker 1: and my keys in. He's been following your social media

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Speaker 1: like crap. Well, Eric has heard of me talk about

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Speaker 1: my sad seat of life literally for years now, so he,

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Speaker 1: of all people, is very happy about this. But no,

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Speaker 1: he couldn't come. He also has a wedding, but I'll

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Speaker 1: see him in a couple of weeks. You guys, no

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Speaker 1: one wants here about thank you. I think I think

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Speaker 1: they deserved an update because I'm sure they've been following

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Speaker 1: you on social media. I think they deserve to kind

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Speaker 1: of hear the update and what's going on. But it's

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Speaker 1: also understanding we don't want to lay it all out

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Speaker 1: now because we want to save it for when he

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Speaker 1: comes on. Yeah, but also, you know on my social media,

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Speaker 1: I'm still single and all my clips are like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I'm single. And there was a couple of

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Speaker 1: your story has got a couple of pictures. They look

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Speaker 1: like engagement pictures. So I was gonna ask you about that.

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Speaker 1: He only lost two thousand followers one photo of him,

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Speaker 1: did you really? I lost two thousand followers, and then

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Speaker 1: I posted some stories being like, look, people, at some point,

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Speaker 1: I am going to find a guy who will stay forever.

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Speaker 1: So if you're going to leave, just leave now, because

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Speaker 1: if I don't know what you thought, did you think

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Speaker 1: I was gonna marry you person I've never met from

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Speaker 1: the internet, Like, what did you want? Yeah? But I

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Speaker 1: mean you know so anyway, moral of a story is, uh,

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Speaker 1: I haven't really released the crack in on Instagram yet,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Speaking of boyfriends, our first hot topic today

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Speaker 1: deals with a woman who allegedly films herself throwing her

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Speaker 1: cheating mother's ashes in a body of water. Hm. The

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Speaker 1: fact that you just said you've heard and seeing it all,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of our hot topics for today.

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Speaker 1: Another hot topic will be discussing is an animal rescue

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Speaker 1: ceo arrested after thirty dead cats and dogs found in

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Speaker 1: her house. Finally rounding out with a socalled woman finding

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Speaker 1: thirty six dollars in cash hidden in account she bought

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Speaker 1: off Craigslist. And we have a very special guest today,

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Speaker 1: Katinka Newman, who is a documentary filmmaker who created Girls

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Speaker 1: Gone Wild Exposed, which will be airing Monday, doing thirteenth

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Speaker 1: on t n T. I can't wait to talk to her.

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Speaker 1: But let's go back to that first. Let's not over

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Speaker 1: So she this woman had a boyfriend that cheated on

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Speaker 1: her and her revenge was to film herself. By the way,

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Speaker 1: when you film yourself, you can't self sticks. But you

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Speaker 1: can't then say I didn't do it, because you may

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Speaker 1: be evidence yourself. You're literally like, look at me, I

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Speaker 1: did it, I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I did it.

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Speaker 1: But this this this, So there's the two wrongs make

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Speaker 1: a right thing right, but then there's like a worse

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Speaker 1: or a worse wrong. Right. So I'm sorry that your

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Speaker 1: boyfriend cheated on you. Okay, but if you want to,

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Speaker 1: I don't really give ah, it seems like he cheated

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Speaker 1: because she's a little crazy. Well yeah. And then so

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Speaker 1: her getting back at him was to throw his mother's

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Speaker 1: ashes in a lake, Like I don't think I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: that he cheated on you. Move on. It was a

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Speaker 1: boy friend. Sometimes this ship happens. I don't think it

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Speaker 1: should happen, but sometimes it does. But two, then desecrate

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Speaker 1: his mother's ashes in a lake, because that's like your

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Speaker 1: revenge thing. Just lose the sympathy. The whole point of

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Speaker 1: of doing something or saying you got cheated on, I assume,

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Speaker 1: is to gain sympathy, and you've thrown that out the window.

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Speaker 1: I think we're gonna have to call you, Dmitri popass Off.

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Speaker 1: I think we're I think we're okay, Okay, you never mind. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So this forty year old woman, Augustine Gladden e in

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Speaker 1: May I mean okay. So this is nearly two years

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Speaker 1: after she was accused of throwing her boyfriend's mother's ashes

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Speaker 1: into Lake Worth Um had a video go viral on

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Speaker 1: social media about her throwing the ashes the lake. Of course,

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Speaker 1: it's always social media bringing things back into the light,

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Speaker 1: use social sleuths. Apparently this happened in you know, covid

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Speaker 1: made people do crazy things, but she cannot check off

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Speaker 1: COVID for this one. This is all her babe. So

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Speaker 1: apparently they were not a good terms, which is obvious.

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Speaker 1: And then the man overheard a conversation between the suspect

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Speaker 1: and her daughter in which she said she'd thrown the

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Speaker 1: urn into the lake and then she later did admit

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Speaker 1: to it, and a video posted to the social media

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Speaker 1: platform TikTok l o l described the incident gain traction

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Speaker 1: over the weekend, gaining more than the thirty thousand views,

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Speaker 1: which should be honest, is not that name um. The video,

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Speaker 1: which appears to be re enactment of the incident, received

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Speaker 1: a hundred comments, and to be fair, I don't know

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Speaker 1: why we're considering this viral like this is. You know,

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Speaker 1: I got a hundred comments on bathing suit. I should

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Speaker 1: have gotten more, to be fair, should have gotten more.

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Speaker 1: It should have been illegal that I only got a hundred.

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Speaker 1: But she's now facing an abuse of a corpse charge,

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Speaker 1: which is a class A misdemeanor. I mean, that's class

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Speaker 1: as Let me wow, thank you, thank you, welcome back

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Speaker 1: to l a joke. I really appreciate it. Now let

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Speaker 1: me ask you something to Metri. What's the craziest thing

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Speaker 1: you've done or would do to get revenge on an

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Speaker 1: unfaithful partner? Ear muffs to your wife? E exactly what

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Speaker 1: I said. Played the sympathy card right, getting that the

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Speaker 1: whole point of when you've been wrong, this is your

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Speaker 1: prime opportunity to get to get sympathy and to get

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Speaker 1: attention from other people. Just just own it. Once you

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Speaker 1: do something wrong back, then you're just as bad, but

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Speaker 1: in a different on a different stage. Well, Dmitri, thank

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Speaker 1: you for asking me the same question in return. So

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Speaker 1: here's literally Leah, how about you? You're not allowed to breathe, Dmitri.

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Speaker 1: I'm well aware that you asked me a question so

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Speaker 1: that you can answer and go ahead, what would you do?

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Speaker 1: You know, that's like when someone says, like you text someone, hey,

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Speaker 1: how are you? But really you're just trying to get

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Speaker 1: the conversation going so you can talk about yourself anyway.

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Speaker 1: Um Hey, Dmitri, Hey, how are you okay? So I

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Speaker 1: will say that this was not intentional and it's not

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Speaker 1: as weird or crazy at all as anyone would think.

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Speaker 1: So I had suspected that my ex boyfriend was cheating

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Speaker 1: on me with multiple women around in the world, which

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Speaker 1: he was. It was a long story. So then there

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Speaker 1: was one day where he was in Mexico l O

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Speaker 1: L and he told me he was so tired. He

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Speaker 1: was working on set and I had so much thing

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, babe, I'm so sad for like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're you work so hard. You deserve sleep and you

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Speaker 1: deserve all the best things. You're so hard working. I

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Speaker 1: love you so much. And he's like, oh, I'm just

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Speaker 1: going from set to sit. Did he say sex to

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Speaker 1: sex or set to the set? L O L? Hurt

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Speaker 1: my feelings one more time? In Dmitri, I might just

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Speaker 1: cry about it, don't worry. I don't have any feelings left.

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Speaker 1: Was it the antidepressants or is it the exhaustion? Who's

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Speaker 1: to say so. Then so then there was this girl

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Speaker 1: that he recently started following on Instagram. Um, at this time,

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Speaker 1: on Instagram, you could still see who liked too his photos,

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Speaker 1: so you were still able to you were still able

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Speaker 1: to stalk feeble that right, right, he was liking all

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Speaker 1: our photos. And then I saw that he had been

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Speaker 1: commenting all this extremely flirty stuff on her photos, and

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Speaker 1: he recently started following her. And then I saw that

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Speaker 1: they were musical music festival together and she was posting

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Speaker 1: like her eyes on him on her Instagram story and

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Speaker 1: all this sort of stuff very benign. So then he

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Speaker 1: came home and I asked him about her. I said, Hey,

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Speaker 1: what's something going on that girl? And he was like,

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Speaker 1: you're being crazy, nothing's going on with her. And she's

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Speaker 1: an old friend, Oh, an old friend that you just

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Speaker 1: happened to meet this weekend, someone you just started following

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Speaker 1: because she's such an old friend. Anyway, So then the

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Speaker 1: next weekend he's like he goes back to Mexico and

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Speaker 1: he was like, oh, I'm so tired and going set

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Speaker 1: to set again, and I have a little less sympathy

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Speaker 1: this time. And I see that she happens to be

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Speaker 1: on set from her Instagram stories because she's a little

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Speaker 1: cloud chaser. He was well known person. Okay, So then

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Speaker 1: I see in her Instagram story he was like, Babe,

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Speaker 1: I can't make it back to America. I gotta shoot

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Speaker 1: this whole weekend. And I was like, that's okay, I

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Speaker 1: understand you're busy. Congratulations on being successful. I've seen her

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Speaker 1: Instagram story that they she actually let me reverse. He

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Speaker 1: flew to go see her in Guadalajara for the whole

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Speaker 1: weekend and she's instagramming the fun. You were still together

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Speaker 1: at this point. No, no, no. So once I saw

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Speaker 1: that there had been some questionable moments in the past

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Speaker 1: where I like blocked unblocked him, you know, went crazy.

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Speaker 1: I was like, you're cheating on me and he was like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I just got um I caught something at the gym.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure he did. I would rule that out either,

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Speaker 1: and um, yeah, I caught something at the gym. So

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Speaker 1: I didn't. And I didn't want you to think I

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Speaker 1: was cheating on you with someone, so I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to tell you I was home. When I was home,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of little white lies in there,

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Speaker 1: I think along the way white lies are just full

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Speaker 1: on lines. Anyway, more old story. So then I blocked

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Speaker 1: him on everything. And at this time, I'm basically living

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Speaker 1: with this guy. I had already moved out of my

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Speaker 1: apartment and I was just about to leave to go

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Speaker 1: to an event. So I had this is so random.

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Speaker 1: I cut my hair, and I had intended to come

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Speaker 1: back to the apartment, but I never went back to

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Speaker 1: the apartment. And I left my hair, like my dead

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Speaker 1: hair all over the floor. So weird, like piles of

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Speaker 1: dead air everywhere. That's our social clip right there, no context,

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Speaker 1: just I just left my dead hair all over the

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Speaker 1: floor like I left the DNA. We know who did it.

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Speaker 1: It was me. It's my hair on the floor. Is

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Speaker 1: it's exactly the color of my hair because it's my hair,

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Speaker 1: sure is. And um, I can only imagine since I

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Speaker 1: blocked him, he tried getting in touch with me a bunch. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he came home and just saw my hair everywhere. Anyway. Um,

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Speaker 1: not to beat a dead hair. Still not as bad

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Speaker 1: as throwing an urn of of of mother his mother's

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Speaker 1: ashes and like, no, Dodd, Dodd, but it's not and

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Speaker 1: it wasn't even revenge, it was unintentional. I just couldn't

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Speaker 1: fathom the idea of going back there anyway. Um, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's just move on. I think because I'm I think

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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time talking about my ex boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually a little more nervous to hear what story

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Speaker 1: you might have that goes along with this next one. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: seeing the light fade from Dmitri's eyes the harrowing thing.

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Speaker 1: So this woman is arrested after they find dead cats

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Speaker 1: and two dead dogs and two dead cats that were

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Speaker 1: decomposed and kept inside cages and creates in her home.

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Speaker 1: And she was the CEO of an animal rescue so

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Speaker 1: I think she I think she misinterpreted what that job entailed.

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Speaker 1: Dear God. Apparently deputy has performed a welfare check at

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Speaker 1: her home, Caroline Pennington's house. She's forty seven. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: is May twenty second, So it does a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks ago after receiving calls about a smell of death

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Speaker 1: at her house. Not even something weird's happening, the smell

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Speaker 1: of death. Who called this in? I don't know who

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Speaker 1: called it in, But I mean, obviously it must have

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Speaker 1: been a neighbor or something. But it's twisted. This woman

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Speaker 1: was the CEO of an animal rescue and somehow she

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Speaker 1: got thirty animals into her home and it says that

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Speaker 1: they died from um starvation and dehydration. So that that

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Speaker 1: was my point. Clearly, she doesn't know what that job entails.

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Speaker 1: Where was she rescuing from them from if she brought

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Speaker 1: them home and left them to do, absolutely animal cruelty.

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Speaker 1: But also, like, do you think that you would be

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Speaker 1: able to identify the smell of I think it's probably

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Speaker 1: a smell of like because people have reported like when

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Speaker 1: it's usually like a dead body or something. But people

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Speaker 1: people say, oh, it's just it's probably beyond a stench

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Speaker 1: that you've ever comprehended. So you're like, this has got

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Speaker 1: to be something bad. The other thing that's so odd

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Speaker 1: is that apparently they've been deceased for a while. How

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Speaker 1: did she live there? How did she physically live there?

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't you not be able to breathe? I'm guessing she

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Speaker 1: has some issues. She's not all there um clearly obviously

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Speaker 1: to do any of the stuff that she has done.

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Speaker 1: Um is sick and twisted, So it's a great question

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Speaker 1: how did she live there? But it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: who even needs an answer for that? Because if you're

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Speaker 1: able to do the first part, the second part doesn't

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Speaker 1: really the second part is not going to surprise. I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you think she used her status as CEO and

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Speaker 1: director of the animal rescue called Growl to steal donations

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Speaker 1: meant for the care of animals? Mud? But what was

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Speaker 1: she even doing with that money? Like it appears it's

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Speaker 1: not as if she was taking care of herself or

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Speaker 1: her home or what was she using the money for?

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Speaker 1: Kind of confusing. I don't condone and scams like that, obviously,

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Speaker 1: and especially not when you're harming animals. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is gonna sound so think it through though. If

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Speaker 1: you're taking the money and you're taking me up, you're

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Speaker 1: just bringing them home and then leaving him dead and

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Speaker 1: you're in your house or your apartment, it doesn't it

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Speaker 1: a huge mental disconnect here obviously for many reasons, but

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Speaker 1: you couldn't even execute this. What do you think that

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Speaker 1: she'll get charged with? And do you think that she'll

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Speaker 1: file for mental owners I think that's what I think

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Speaker 1: that's the hip thing to do. The trendy thing to

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Speaker 1: do now is to is to say, oh, is mental

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Speaker 1: illness because we're probably not there to think of it, right,

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Speaker 1: because maybe they do have a mental illness or they

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Speaker 1: obviously have some sort of mental illness to be able

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Speaker 1: to do something like this. But two then be like,

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Speaker 1: you know, they get a lawyer, and a lawyer says, well,

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Speaker 1: here's what we're gonna do, and that's where the whole

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Speaker 1: I just I understand that everybody deserves a lawyer, but

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Speaker 1: that's where this kind of stuff bothers me is because

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Speaker 1: don't come in and give them something that might get

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Speaker 1: them off, because they don't deserve to get off, and

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Speaker 1: they don't deserve to make up reasons why they can

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Speaker 1: get out of something. Just lay out the truth and

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Speaker 1: I let the jury decide. And guys, that was Dmitri

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Speaker 1: Pappus on getting off. I don't think that was the illegal.

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Speaker 1: Uh all right. We don't have a lot of time

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Speaker 1: today because we have an incredible interview coming up, So

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Speaker 1: I just want to, do you mind if we just

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Speaker 1: run through this last story to me, because I think

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Speaker 1: it's we're leaving it on an upbeat. I think we

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Speaker 1: should do that before we were the guest. I think

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Speaker 1: let's let's have an upbeat story. And this is a

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Speaker 1: wild story because I just want to say good people

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Speaker 1: like this I think are rare. And it sounds like

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Speaker 1: this woman found got odd, which most of us need

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Speaker 1: to do. Let me listen. Okay, this so cold woman

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Speaker 1: finds thirty six thousand dollars in cash in cold art

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Speaker 1: cash hidden in her couch that she bought on craigslist.

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Speaker 1: Like okay, and here's what happens is in one of

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Speaker 1: the pillows. And she said she was never tempted to

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Speaker 1: keep what she found. She immediately returned the money to

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Speaker 1: the family who gave her the furniture. She said, God

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Speaker 1: has been kind to me and my children. They're all

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Speaker 1: alive and well I have been beautiful grandchildren. So what

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Speaker 1: can I ever ask of God? Yeah? Thirty six dollars? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So she said he was browsing online ads for new

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Speaker 1: furniture and she saw some free items free, so she

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Speaker 1: clicked on the first thing that came to mind that

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Speaker 1: the family wanted to give away was a sofa and

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Speaker 1: everything in their bedroom. And she said she thought it

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Speaker 1: was maybe a gimmick and it wasn't a gimmick. The

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Speaker 1: family just wanted to give away the furniture and explain

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Speaker 1: that a loved one had recently passed and that they

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Speaker 1: were just liquidating everything they owned. So the sofa and

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Speaker 1: the chair fit perfectly into her home, and when she

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Speaker 1: was inspecting them, she just found thirty six thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: of cash and envelopes. And when she returned the cash

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Speaker 1: to the family, they said that they had also found

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Speaker 1: other cash inside the house, but only a few hundred dollars,

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Speaker 1: which is I mean, this is all crazy. Also, I

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Speaker 1: just will say my Jewish grandmother did this as well.

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Speaker 1: She had money in books and in in pillow cases

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Speaker 1: and just like a whole bunch of interesting things like that.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, as a thank you, they agreed to pay

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Speaker 1: for a new refrigerator for her and gave her very

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you found thirty six hundred dollars in

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Speaker 1: the second hand couch dollars, I think I'm I think

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm notifying the people, I honestly do. I think

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Speaker 1: one part of me would probably a little scared to

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Speaker 1: be like, do they know? And now they're gonna come

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Speaker 1: and get it at some point. So I'd like to

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Speaker 1: to take out the portion where they come breaking into

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Speaker 1: my house to take it back. Maybe they were hiding

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Speaker 1: it from someone and how to get it out of

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Speaker 1: the house. I don't want to be the target from

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Speaker 1: somebody else. But also, you know, I can't sit here

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Speaker 1: and preach that. I think people should do the right

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Speaker 1: thing more often. And I'd be like, oh, if I

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Speaker 1: found thirty six thou dollars in a couch where I

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Speaker 1: knew where the couch came from, if I got the

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Speaker 1: couch from like a second hand store, maybe it's different.

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Speaker 1: I probably hold on the money. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: drug money. That was my first thought, right, was that

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Speaker 1: this is dirty money, and that's so terrifying. My second

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Speaker 1: thought was could I pay off my student loans in cash?

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Speaker 1: And the answer is no, not even close. But the

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Speaker 1: thing is so my My first and um, I'm know

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Speaker 1: we're gonna go because we have a guest, But my

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Speaker 1: thing is my first thing was like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: who who hides thirty six thousand dollars and then forgets

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Speaker 1: like you sell a couch, whatever you do, you don't

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Speaker 1: remember you put it there. But then it said that

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Speaker 1: a lovel one had passed, so clearly the loved one

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Speaker 1: probably hit it there and they were just getting murder

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Speaker 1: of the furniture. So then I really do feel badly

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Speaker 1: for them, Yeah, of course. And it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: the money and for the family. Do you think they

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Speaker 1: should have given her more money? I probably would have

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Speaker 1: given her, like I don't know, thousand dollars and you

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Speaker 1: get twenty two hundred and a new fridge. Oh, this

397
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 1: is like the prices, right, it is like the press, right,

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Speaker 1: the fridge and you get a fridge and you that's oprah.

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Speaker 1: I probably would have done five thousands. Yeah, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have that. That was the number that came to me

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Speaker 1: to look at us, look at us a little five

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Speaker 1: thousand airs. But also you know, it's interesting like I

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Speaker 1: found something valuable in an unexpected place once too, I

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00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,719
Speaker 1: found a British Jewish boyfriend and abisa, which is like

405
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,959
Speaker 1: I literally fell in love and a hopeless placed. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: you guys let us know in the comments on at

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Speaker 1: Real Time Crime Pod how much money you would have

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Speaker 1: given her back. And we gotta go to break because

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Speaker 1: we're about to talk to a Girl's Gone wild. Bosed

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Speaker 1: documentary filmmaker and we're about to hear everything, all the

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Speaker 1: dirty secrets about Girls Gone Wild that we have not

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Speaker 1: heard about. So stay tuned, don't touch that dial. We'll

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Speaker 1: be right back and we're back. Hello, everyone, Welcome back

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Speaker 1: from our break. I hope you enjoyed whatever ad you

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Speaker 1: listen to. I know I did. Guys, this part of

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Speaker 1: the episode is really special. We have with us an

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Speaker 1: incredible award winning documentary filmmaker, director, and writer who created

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Speaker 1: Girls Gone Wild Exposed, which is airing Monday June on

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Speaker 1: t n T. Her name is Katinka Blackford Newman. Katinka. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're very glad to have you here today and I

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Speaker 1: am just so excited about Girls Gone Wild Exposed, which

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Speaker 1: is airing Monday, June on t NT, the day before

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Speaker 1: my birthday. Early birthday gift for me, Katinka. So, you're

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Speaker 1: an award winning documentary filmmaker, director, writer, and you've been

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00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 1: in the TV business for over twenty five years, so

426
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 1: you know a good story when you hear one. And

427
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 1: we've got a million questions for you about Girls Gone

428
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: Wild Exposed, Why you got involved, what intrigued you about it?

429
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 1: And we can get into all of that in just

430
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: a second, but For those of you who don't know

431
00:22:58,160 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 1: what Girl Has Gone Wild is because you've been lynn

432
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 1: living under a rock. Let's talk a little bit about

433
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 1: what Girls Gone Wild Exposed will uncover. It will uncover

434
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 1: the truth behind former Hollywood it boy Joe Francis as

435
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 1: he continues to evade justice and reveals for the first

436
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: time audio recording a verbal altercation between Francis and his

437
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: estranged wife, plus young women's account of being exploited, coerced,

438
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: and assaulted while Francis raked in millions of dollars. On June,

439
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: Will air Girls Gone Wild Exposed, taking viewers beyond the

440
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: harmless fun of what T shirt competitions and bus fueled

441
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: spring breaks and into dark back rooms with Joe Francis,

442
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: where girls were coerced to take part in actions far

443
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: more sinister than flashing on a beach. The show documents

444
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 1: frances is increasingly bizarre and violent downward spile, which all

445
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: played out in the public eye while he continued to

446
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: rub shoulders with some of Hollywood's most popular stars. I'm

447
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: sure you know a lot of them. With first time

448
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 1: exclusive accounts, the two hour episode uncovers an audio recording

449
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: of a verbal altercation between Frances and his estranged wife,

450
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: along with interviews from the women who say their lives

451
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 1: were ruined and who are now battling to reclaim their

452
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: identities by sharing their stories, some of whom were even

453
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: on the covers of these videos without ever even knowing it.

454
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: All right, Katenka so pleased to be here. It was

455
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: so happy to have you. And I mean, everyone knows

456
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 1: about Girls Gone Wild. This is a huge sensation that

457
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: took America by storm. And I guess we're curious to

458
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: know what attracted you to the Girls Gone Wild story

459
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: in the first place, and how did this whole project

460
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: come about? Well, I guess as a as a film

461
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: like filmmaker, I like to give a voice to ordinary people. Um.

462
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: And it struck struck me that there was that there

463
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 1: was definitely going to be a story behind this. But

464
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: what I didn't realize I thought to begin with that

465
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: I was going to be making a film about a

466
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: sleazy pornographer. Had no idea the extent of the abuse

467
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 1: um that was behind the Girls Gone Wild empire. UM

468
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: so Joe Francis. He basically was given a free pass

469
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: by the entertainment industry, by the Celebsit that he hung

470
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: out with um and women trusted him. People trusted him

471
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: because he rubbed shoulders with the Kardashians and m Brad Pitt,

472
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: Jennifer Andison go on and so forth. Um So, to

473
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: begin with, I thought it was I thought that we

474
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: were going to be making something that that was was

475
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: just looking perhaps at the that that you know, things

476
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: weren't quite as they seemed, and that there would be something,

477
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: you know, beyond the kind of the girls flashing the

478
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: camera the camera, and so you didn't know how right

479
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: you were. I didn't know how what wright it was

480
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: absolutely right. So, um, it turned out to be a

481
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: much bigger story I was. I was genuinely shocked by

482
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: some of the footage that I saw. So basically what

483
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: was happening is that girls were being filmed without there,

484
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,959
Speaker 1: without even knowing that the cameras were there. So some

485
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: some girls were taking part in bikini contests and they

486
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: had no idea that the cameras were there, and then

487
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: they would discover many years later that they were had

488
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: been cut into the Girl's Gone World videos. But worst

489
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: of all, there were girls who were some some were underage,

490
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: but some had just turned eighteen. They were they were

491
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: applied with drink by Joe Francis and his cameramen, and

492
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: they were then asked to sign very complex legal documents,

493
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: and then he and his camera member would persuade them

494
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: to take part in really hardcore girl on girl sex

495
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: scenes that they would never ever usually have taken part in,

496
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: and then they would wake up the next morning think,

497
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 1: oh God, what what what did I do? And of

498
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: course that they had signed away all of their rights

499
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: and that's what it just still out there. It's interesting

500
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 1: because you when you say, you know, it's it seemed

501
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: one thing and I do you know, this was at

502
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: the time where all this kind of reality stuff was

503
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 1: really booming, and so people thought, oh, I'm gonna be

504
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: on camera, but it was really was portrayed in Hollywood

505
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: and everywhere. I'm proud to say that I never bought

506
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: any of those and I never got into those, but

507
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: it was there was portrayed that this was just people

508
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: having fun and oh there's a camera, I'm gonna lift

509
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: up my shirt, and it seemed very much like everybody was,

510
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: you know, was going along with this is just people

511
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: who wanted to do this. But then I watched them

512
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: and deep down and after the years went on, we

513
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: learned that it wasn't that. But I watched the trailer

514
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: for your documentary, and uh, fantastic, by the way, even

515
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: just that two and a half minutes. But when it goes, oh,

516
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: and this, and girls were doing this and this, and

517
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: then you cut to the one girl and she goes,

518
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: it was the worst out of my life. And it's

519
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: like that right there encapsulated everything that we didn't know

520
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: what was happening. You know, we thought, as you explained,

521
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: everybody thought, oh, they're doing this for a free T shirt,

522
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 1: how exciting. But there was so much darkness behind it.

523
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 1: And and also most of these women were never compensated, right,

524
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: that's right. I mean he was making his hype was

525
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 1: one while I was making a hundred million a year,

526
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: and these girls were getting a T shirt or a hat.

527
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: So it was built into his business model that he

528
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: knew that he would be that that that he would

529
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: be sued by some girls who are underage or whose

530
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: image he had stolen or whatever. On the for the

531
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 1: main part, he got away with it because once these girls,

532
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: if they were eating her over, if they had signed

533
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: that document, that was it. They had no rights whatsoever.

534
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: But occasionally girls who were under age or whatever would

535
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: would be able to sue. So that was in his

536
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: business model. So there was a lawyer who was who

537
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: was representing somebody and she had access to these documents

538
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: and that was that was in his business plan that

539
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: he was that millions would be spent on when he

540
00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: was dude, but then very very in terms of talent,

541
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: it was just T shirts and hats. Can you imagine

542
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: being So it's in your business model. Put some money

543
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: aside for when we inevitably get sued for taking advantage

544
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: of under each girls like that's that's in the budget.

545
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: That's why do you think they didn't take any precautions

546
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: to find out how old people were before they felt

547
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: they did? They did, but girls, I mean did the

548
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: sad things were so keen to do it that they

549
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: would lie about their age. For me, I call girls

550
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: gone wild. When I look at my credit card statement

551
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: after going to the Chanel store in Paris getting that

552
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: back for a while, Joe France has got nothing on me. Um, yeah,

553
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: I mean this is honestly. This is also interesting because

554
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: Joe touted female empowerment because he said that these women

555
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: had a choice to participate in the videos he produced,

556
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: just like you were saying, and when you factor in

557
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: all the alcohol they consume, do you believe that they

558
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: were actually at menage of or do you think that

559
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: there was an element of female empowerment. I mean when

560
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: you some of the some of the videos of just girls,

561
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: you know, just taking taking their t shirt up and

562
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: flashing their breasts and so on, you know, that's that's

563
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: one thing. It's a completely different thing when you've got

564
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: girls who are drunk scenes and really genuinely their lives

565
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: were ruined by that. You know, years later that that

566
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: footage was out there, they met, but at that point

567
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: they they have got married and so on and so forth. Um,

568
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: some were, um just kind of ostracized by their community

569
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: because of what because of what had happened. So it

570
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: really lives were being ruined. It. It just wasn't about

571
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: girls flashing for the cameras. That's not what it was.

572
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: That's really not what what that was about. That was

573
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: just a front and behind that something much much since

574
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: more sinister was going on. And as the as our

575
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: research progressed, worse than that that that Joe Francis is

576
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: a violent abuser. The film opens with an audio recording

577
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: of him beating up his the mother of his children.

578
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: M and there have been many charges of violence against him.

579
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: So he's got form. And what's the current state of

580
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: him right now? Is he out of the country in Mexico,

581
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: So if he comes back to the to the States,

582
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: he'd be arrested. And he's just living in a luxurious

583
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: a state, right. Yeah, he has a beautiful Mexican villa.

584
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, yeah, his wife, he's not his His wife

585
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: is fighting for custody for the for the children. Embroiled

586
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: in a in a custody battle, and he was saying

587
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: that she kidnapped their two daughters. But I guess that

588
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: she left saying that Francis was doing drugs and was

589
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: abusive throughout all that, Right, isn't that what was going

590
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: on there? I think he says that she could um,

591
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: he says that she kidnapped the children. I doubt if

592
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:29,719
Speaker 1: she's got the children. They met because of the you know,

593
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: America's most Hottest Woman in America competition, Right, that was

594
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: how they met and she won, That's right. Yes, I

595
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: think I think they may have met before that, but

596
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: but she was but she was in the in the

597
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: girl's Gone wild idears, So it was a competition for

598
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: the position of his girlfriend. Well basically, well, you know,

599
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: it's really interesting because there is a difference between flashing

600
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: a camera, right, that doesn't necessarily ruin your or that's

601
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: something that happens at Mardy Grad that that's HBO or

602
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: Netflix say, but anything past that, you know, some people

603
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: might even say doing that could can make your career

604
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: as an actress. But anything past that is you know

605
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: that that's exploiting someone if that is against their wishes.

606
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: Well they were. They were completely drunk and and persuaded

607
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: to sign very complex legal documents that company the rights

608
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: to the right to sell that, to use that those

609
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: images and sell them to to other distributors. So it

610
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: was it's really sad. I mean when I when I

611
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: watched those videos, it was just sickning. You could just

612
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: so young and it kind of looked like child pornography,

613
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: it really did. They were They looked so young, they

614
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,479
Speaker 1: were so impressionable, and they were they were being forced

615
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: into into augy is and Joe was coaching the girls,

616
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: right did jail All his camera men were choreographing these orgies.

617
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 1: You know, millions of people were buying these videos. People

618
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: saw what was going on, So it's really extraordinary that

619
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of allowed to character continue. Yeah, they

620
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: they had infomercials, right and the and like the paid

621
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: programming on TV where they would advertise these videos and

622
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: people would order them and they would be sent and

623
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: the fact just to think that that's what was on

624
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: the videos and that was happening. And I don't know

625
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: if it was just that he went about it legally

626
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: from the perspective of being able to do anything about it,

627
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: but that seems kind of ridiculous to be able to

628
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: buy paid programming and have a commercial for people to

629
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: order vhs and DVDs. Yeah, particularly that because they weren't

630
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: being paid. I mean, it's quite different thing, isn't it.

631
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: If you've got actors who are big, who who understand

632
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: the contract that they're signing and elect to take part

633
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: in a pornography scene because they're being properly paid, that's

634
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: a completely different thing than girls who are barely legal

635
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: of the legal age, you know, barely eighteen and some

636
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: in some instances they were also underage because they lied

637
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: about their age. But yes, say they are just eighteen, Um,

638
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: they just don't know what they're doing. They're not getting

639
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: paid for it at all. They're getting a hat or

640
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: a T shirt. It's completely wrong and exploitative, and they're

641
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: doing things they just clearly would never usually do. Right,

642
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: And so Joe filed for bankruptcy before Mexicol with his

643
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,919
Speaker 1: ex Abbey and their two daughters. So do you think

644
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: that he has as money to survive for a long time? Well,

645
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: I know that you can that he rents out his

646
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 1: Mexican villa for I think it's something like forty dollars

647
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: a night, So he has a lot of celebrity guests.

648
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 1: You know, what do you think the man? The man

649
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: is as an entrepreneur through and through? Yeah? Right? He

650
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: said he has two daughters. Now I don't know how

651
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: old they are. But do you think or was there

652
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: any kind of change in his mind at some point

653
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: when he all of a sudden he was taking advantage

654
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: of these girls for so long that when he had daughters.

655
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: Sometimes it can change someone because you see something from

656
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: a different perspective. Do you think there was any any

657
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: bit of that? You think he's just as as sleezy

658
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: now as he was then. Um, I think that Joe

659
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: Francis has a lot of uncontrollable anger issues. Documentary reveals

660
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: his impowering taken had taken out a restraining order against it.

661
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: There were many charges and one of the reasons that

662
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: he fled to Mexico was there was he if he

663
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: came back, he would have to go to prison because

664
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: there was a he was he was found guilty of

665
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: assault and battery. He invited some girls back to his

666
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: house um and wouldn't allow them to leave and and

667
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: banged one of their heads against the ground. So that

668
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: was the That was the final charge and led to

669
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: him fleeing from Mexico as well. Of course there was

670
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: the money issues as well. So he has huge violent

671
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: he has huge issues with abuse and violence. And I

672
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: don't think that that just changes overnight and ego because

673
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: I are the line where he says, I'm Joe Francis,

674
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: like he thinks, you know, clearly thinks he's untouchable, Like

675
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,240
Speaker 1: why would why would I have to answer to anything

676
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: he has that he does have? Yeah, exactly, there is

677
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: a sense of entitled mention, and I think that it's

678
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 1: just not something that changes overnight. And the documentary dells

679
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: into some into a possible EXPNA. She's not an excuse,

680
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: but it's an explanation for where that comes from. He

681
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,280
Speaker 1: went to one of those, UM, one of those schools

682
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: for troubled teens where the schools were very wealthy pet

683
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: middle class parents send their kids who are a bit troublesome,

684
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: and they are these schools are well. The school that

685
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: he went to was shut down because of abuse, UM.

686
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: And the regime is just horrendous. I mean literally, you're

687
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: dropped their age for eleven or twelve, Your parents don't

688
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 1: tell you that you're going there, that you think you're

689
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: going somewhere completely different, and then you look up and

690
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 1: they're driving down down the driveway and you don't. You

691
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: don't see them for another twelve months. So he went

692
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: to one of those schools, and many as the pupils

693
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: who went there, UM, some have have killed themselves, some

694
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: have drug problems, all sorts. So some of them have

695
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: then turned and and done the same thing to other

696
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: people where they lie to them. And of course, so

697
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: it's this, it's what it's the situation, isn't it that

698
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: the abuse becomes the abusers? Maybe is where his need

699
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: to control who has come from. Well, I mean to

700
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: me teaser, it just seems like a level of narcissism

701
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 1: that's completely uncontrollable. He thinks he can get out of

702
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,439
Speaker 1: any legal issue. He's he's kicking and screaming, essentially being

703
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: like do you know who I am? That's that his

704
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: whole energy is do you know who I am? As

705
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: they're showing him with Mario Lopez and you know he's

706
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: rubbing shoulder. Is that the Kardashians. You know. It's also

707
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: confusing because it's like, with all the money he had

708
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 1: and all the success, how did he get so far

709
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: in debt? Well, um, it's a good question, I guess. Um. Well,

710
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: actually the main reason entirely because of that, because of

711
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 1: that sense of entitlement and us and so he basically

712
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: he um, uh, he lost a whole load of money

713
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: in one of Steve Win's casinos. Um, and then he

714
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: landed to win, Oh my god. And then there was

715
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: a big court case and uh, and Joe lost. So

716
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: he lost a huge amount of money from that. Now,

717
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: let me ask you this. So when you started this

718
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: documentary said Okay, I think I know what this is.

719
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: This is going to be this you know, pornography thing,

720
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: and then you realized that the depth in the darkness

721
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 1: to it, was there ever point either where you wanted

722
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: to stop or was it that you wanted to Then

723
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: you became someone like I really want to get to

724
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: the bottom of all this and expose all of this.

725
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: And and I imagine there's a part of you that

726
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: hopes that this guy will be caught and brought back

727
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: in and justice will be served. For the justice will

728
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: never be served because those people won't get it, will

729
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: never wipe away from their lives, They'll never get their

730
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: lives back and all the trauma that's happened to them,

731
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: but justice being serving that he would have to, you know,

732
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 1: suffer for what he's done as well. Well. The documentary

733
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: was commissioned initially is a one hour and then when

734
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: we realized what we had, the broadcaster asked if if

735
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: we could make it into a two hour and we

736
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: were like yeah, um. And I think for me the

737
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: most important thing was that actually these women hadn't hadn't

738
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: had a voice before. It takes a lot of courage

739
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: to come out on TV and say that you've been

740
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 1: raped by somebody who um, who has been a celebrity, UM.

741
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: And I think that I think it's been amazing for

742
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: the for the for the survivors to have had a

743
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: voice in the documentary and to really be believed, because

744
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: I think that I think that there's a sort of

745
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: consensus that a TV documentary like this, we wouldn't give

746
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: people a platform unless we were sure that their versions

747
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: of events were extremely credible. We wouldn't take the risk.

748
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 1: So it automatically gives people credibility. He doesn't it, um

749
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: And I think that that has been massively empowering for

750
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: women who have for the women who have been completely disempowered.

751
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 1: And you'll see when you see the documentary, you'll see

752
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: that these are women who were disbelieved and who in

753
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: one instance, she she one a paltry amount in a

754
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: in a case against France, so she got ten tho

755
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: dollars because argued made some kind of argument that the

756
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: company was going to again bankrupt or whatever, and that

757
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: she should just take what she could get or whatever. Um. So,

758
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,240
Speaker 1: So for me, that was the most satisfying thing. Um.

759
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: And he's an incredibly charming, convincing man who may well

760
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: just believed his own publicity that you know, the things

761
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: that he says that he genuine when you. You'll see

762
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: in the documentary that he just says things that completely

763
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: are not true. Like there's a video of him and

764
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: there's some CCTV footage of him beating somebody up, and

765
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: you just and you just then see him saying, oh,

766
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: you know that, that he didn't do it, and I

767
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: just wonder whether he believes it. But he actually just

768
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 1: really has his own kind of version of events just

769
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 1: playing in in his hair it and he is a

770
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: complete He believes what he tells himself, and certainly a

771
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: lot of people believe him because he's just so charming,

772
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: so weird, because I just keep telling people I want

773
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 1: an Oscar, but I didn't, and I really do believe it,

774
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: I really do, you know. I think that is again

775
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 1: just like a level of narcissism that's so out of control.

776
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 1: And a lot of narcissists are very charming. That's why

777
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: people fall for them, and that's why they make great

778
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: business people. That's why you know, a lot of narcissists

779
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: do very well financially when they're unmasked. This sort of

780
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: behavior happens because the narcissists love themselves, right, so then

781
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: they portray that and then people see that confidence, and

782
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: it goes back to some of the best liars of

783
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: the thing. It's that old Costanza, George Costanza from Seinfeld.

784
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: He goes, it's not a lie if you believe it.

785
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: And so it's very possible that Joe Francis thinks I

786
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong. I didn't do this, I didn't

787
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 1: do that, And it's like, that's very it's a very

788
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: difficult case to argue with with someone. I think that

789
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: that is uh. I think that's absolutely I think that

790
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: you're right. I think he just believe it himself. So

791
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 1: do you think that there's anything that people will find

792
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: absolutely surprising while watching the documentary? Yes, I think the

793
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: level of violence and I think the exploitation, but what

794
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: was really going on behind closed doors? But these girls

795
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: were just they were they were applied with drink. And

796
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: when you hear we couldn't were not we weren't allowed

797
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: to actually for obvious reasons, show the sex scenes. But

798
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: you can hear the audio, which in some ways kind

799
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: of like worse. I think people will just be totally shocked.

800
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: And the bases, the kind of the the whole kind

801
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: of business shenanigans, how he was with his business. You know,

802
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: people were tricked into a continuity agreement, the way he

803
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: was with his staff, so on and so forth, there

804
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: was a lot that we couldn't put in. But I

805
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 1: think the thing that we're in people's mind is um

806
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 1: The audio recording of him beating up is the mother

807
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: of his his children is absolutely chilling. I remember the

808
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: first time I heard it, it was like, you know,

809
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: it just made it was just sickly. It sounds like

810
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: he's about to kill her. Was the recording from before

811
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: Mexico or in Mexico, within Mexico recently she had recorded it?

812
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: M hmm. I mean, also, do you think, after researching

813
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: Joe that his intention when he set out to create

814
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: this empire was for to get this out of hand?

815
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: Like do you think that this was part of his

816
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: nature and his business plan or do you think it

817
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: started a little bit more innocently and then he just

818
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: started spiraling and seeing what he could get. I think

819
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that question, but I

820
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: think that if you don't have a moral compass, it

821
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: doesn't take long. But that I mean, if you if

822
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: you don't have any kind of parameters, we don't have

823
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 1: any morality, I mean nothing was off limits for Joe Francis,

824
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing. So he started actually taking clips. So he

825
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: worked as a production or he worked on a company

826
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: of making a program called Band from Television UM and

827
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: that was so basically he was he was that was

828
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: a serious sort of taking kind of outtakes that no

829
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: one could broadcast, and he would sort of package them up. Well,

830
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: that kind of like shows a sense of tastelessness anyway,

831
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: because they're kind of like accidents, you know, things that

832
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: train crashes, things that nobody else would want to want

833
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,919
Speaker 1: to see, want to broadcast. So already you can see

834
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: that that this is somebody who who has a lack

835
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: of empathy that wants to make that you know that

836
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: that doesn't care what he's broad asking, doesn't care about

837
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: people's feelings, It doesn't have a sense of taste and decency,

838
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: just doesn't have a kind of moral compass, doesn't care

839
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: that he's making money out of people's misfortunes. And in

840
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 1: some instances, you know, people there's footage of people dying.

841
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: What did he care? It was gonna it was gonna

842
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 1: he was going to make money out of it, noether

843
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 1: that it was a train crash or skiing accident or whatever.

844
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: If you if you could make money out of it, great, well. Okay, So,

845
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: according to the Hollywood Reporter, Francis had been found guilty

846
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: of false imprisonment, tax evasion, defamation, contempt of court, and

847
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: assault causing great bodily injury, and he planned no contest

848
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: to fill any child abuse and misdemeanor inner prostitution. Do

849
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: you think that if he ever came back to America

850
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: that he would be charged with anything else? Um M,

851
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that question. I mean

852
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: that would that would be enough. I mean, he'd certainly

853
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: have to start. He'd and me have to go to

854
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: prison to serve the sentence that he run away from,

855
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: that's for sure. And the woman whose head he bashed

856
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: did five? She did? Yes, she did? And does she

857
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: have any life long injuries? Um I don't know the

858
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: answer to that question. We didn't talk to her. We

859
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: talked to her. Uh. We talked to the policewoman who

860
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: handled that case, and we read the files. But that

861
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: seems to be his plans, his modus operanda. There were

862
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: more than one occasions when one occasion when he would

863
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 1: slam the head of a woman on the floor, but

864
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: that was that's his that's his mode of attack more.

865
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,399
Speaker 1: He's done that more than once. Your claim to fame

866
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: is making a fortune out of other people's misfortunes. It's

867
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,760
Speaker 1: pretty sick. Now. Question about the celebrit is because obviously

868
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: you mentioned he ran with some with some high profile celebrities.

869
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 1: I think I know the answer to this, But none

870
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: of them are in the documentary. No, I mean we

871
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,839
Speaker 1: approached a hundred of his celebrity friends to ask them

872
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: to take part, and maybe that I that makes sense,

873
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: and as and it is, it is really shocking. You know,

874
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: they couldn't claim that they didn't know what was going

875
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 1: on at the time. I mean, Joe Francis was was

876
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 1: in prison as in the early two thousand's, and he

877
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: was imprisoned for quite serious charges, child pornography charges. But

878
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: and actually you're seeing the documentary, the King Kardashian is

879
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: wearing a T shirt saying free Joe Francis, and there's

880
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: a clip of her mom, you know, talking to to

881
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 1: phoning Joe in in jail, saying, oh, you know, we

882
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,879
Speaker 1: must get you out. I mean, it's extraordinary because Joe

883
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: Francis wasn't he was in jail for serious charges and

884
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 1: they continue to be his friend when he is after that.

885
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:07,879
Speaker 1: So I didn't know what will happen after the documentary

886
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: as whether they will um separate themselves from him. I

887
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know the answer to that. Imagine this,

888
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: that's that typical. We knew him as this, we didn't know.

889
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: It's kind of like people that an hour or nowadays

890
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: that the more recent one where I had never been

891
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: to the island. I didn't know what went on on

892
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 1: the island. You know. It's whenever someone's attached to someone

893
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: and then it comes out that that they were like, oh, yeah,

894
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 1: we're friends, and there's pictures. It's difficult to deny, as

895
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: you just mentioned with with some of those people that

896
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 1: they were in those scenes and all of a sudden,

897
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 1: it's like, well, I didn't know. So the next step

898
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 1: is to come out and say I didn't know what

899
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 1: was going on behind the scenes. I didn't know any

900
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 1: of that, and I'm apault. So I expect a wave

901
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,439
Speaker 1: of that too when the documentary comes out. Well, yeah,

902
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 1: well you can't. They can't. They just can't say that

903
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: he was in jail in the early two thousand's, you know,

904
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: it was it was obvious what he was doing. I mean, yeah,

905
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: this has excellent vibes all over. I mean the other thing,

906
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:03,919
Speaker 1: you know, it's the same thing as what Dmitri is saying.

907
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 1: It's it's like when people try to say, can you

908
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: separate the art from the artist? Where you know, it's

909
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 1: like all these people who occurred, and like, can you

910
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 1: separate Harvey Weinstein from all the amazing films he produced?

911
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: Can you separate? And I think it's once you know

912
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: the charges, and if you have eyeballs and you've been

913
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: hanging out for a while, you have to know. There's

914
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: no way you can't know. You know, it's just someone

915
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: turning a blind die. I mean, they knew. I mean.

916
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: The other thing is that this is feeling very reminiscent

917
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: of Hugh Hefner and the Playboy enterprises. You know. The

918
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: only difference I would say from what I'm hearing is

919
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: that he wasn't as violent. It's exact from what we

920
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: from what we've heard, you know, they think the violence

921
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: is really what separates them. And of course you never

922
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: was charged and ran to Mexico. Um, you know, do

923
00:52:58,080 --> 00:52:59,919
Speaker 1: you think that do you think that there's any store

924
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: of connection between Girls Gotten Wild and Playboy in that regard, Well,

925
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 1: I don't know too much about Playboy, but it seems

926
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: that it was a much more honest enterprise. I guess,

927
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 1: you know, people were paid, weren't they knew what they

928
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: were doing, they weren't underage, um, so it was it

929
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 1: was more it was more transparent and more open, whereas

930
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: this just this was just this was just kind of

931
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: like it was not what it seemed at all. That

932
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 1: was not it was not what it seemed. There was

933
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 1: no integrity there, there was no sense of, you know,

934
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: we're going to pay these people properly. They know what

935
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: they're doing, they're signing contracts, they know they there's informed consent.

936
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: This is so dark. This is like, this is like

937
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: the guy like Hugh Hefton, And I'm not justifying anything

938
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: he did, because we talked about his those exploits recently

939
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 1: on episode two. But this is kind of like Joe

940
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: Francis was just a guy that had came into money

941
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 1: and didn't didn't give a ship and didn't care no repercussions,

942
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: and and you know, you have to went about it

943
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: a different way. And again I'm not justifying what he did.

944
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: But Joe Francis just took didn't even take the precautions

945
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: to make it look like a legitimate thing. He you know,

946
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,879
Speaker 1: he well, like you said, force people to sign things

947
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: when they were drunk and this and that. He didn't

948
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 1: pay him, and so it just seemed like he just thought, oh, Okay,

949
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: I got this thing going, I'm just gonna And I

950
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: imagine as the money came in and the celebrities hung

951
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: out with him, he probably felt more and more invincible. Yeah.

952
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 1: I think that's right. I mean, he's he's just some

953
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 1: of the that just he just has to win. And

954
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:46,919
Speaker 1: you see it over and over again that you're either

955
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: you know, you're either with him or you're against him.

956
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: So he would just turn against anybody that the people

957
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: who had been friends who disagreed with him with him,

958
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: and he would just turn against and immediately and he

959
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: just and he just had to win. And that's why

960
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: he lost a lot of money at the end um

961
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 1: of his time in the in the in the States,

962
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: because he just got into this battle with Steve Win

963
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,879
Speaker 1: which was ridiculous, and he ended up losing I think

964
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: as much as fourty million, so he had I mean, yeah,

965
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: I mean, sorry, a little shot in freud up. But

966
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: I mean it's also interesting because forty million to someone

967
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 1: who's making way more than that almost seems like a

968
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 1: drop in the butt when in the first two years

969
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: girl has gone wild and made more than twenty mail

970
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: and it was just in the first two years. It's like,

971
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 1: how do you how how how do you get to

972
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:49,800
Speaker 1: such a level of narcissism that that you go against

973
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 1: Steve could win in because because you're all this money

974
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 1: for doing nothing, for for for basically partying. His entire

975
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 1: life was a spring break and he's got hundreds of

976
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 1: million dollars a roll again, So why wouldn't he think

977
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: that he can do anything in the world. That's that's insane,

978
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: Endemitri Springburn does for everything. You know, we don't wanna

979
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: take up all your time because we could do this forever.

980
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 1: But is there anything else that you would like to

981
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: share about the documentary or about Joe Francis or anyone

982
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 1: related to the documentary that you think our listeners. Um,

983
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: I just I hope that the documentary um just gives

984
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:39,280
Speaker 1: courage to the victims of other abuses, ready to stand

985
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 1: up and be and be counted, and that as a

986
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 1: society that we will will listen victims of abuse, and

987
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: that you know, however famous or rich these guys are,

988
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: it's really important, isn't it that we um that we

989
00:56:55,080 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: keep our eyes open for for abuse, And is that

990
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 1: celebrities take responsibility who they're friends with because it's their

991
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: endorsements that allow these guys to get away with it. Yeah. Um,

992
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 1: I say, here, here's my pitch. I think we had

993
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: a dog to Bounty on the wrong one episode and

994
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: we're talking about Brian Landry at the time, and we

995
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: weren't sure if he was in Mexico, and he was like,

996
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: the FEDS can't go down to Mexico. He goes I can.

997
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: So here's my pitch. Keep the cameras rolling, Let's talk

998
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 1: to Dog and let's send him down there and drag

999
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: Joe Francis aspect to the US. And he is a

1000
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: great cloud, great brilliant idea. Yeah, this is the case

1001
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:38,479
Speaker 1: for Dog. Okay, Well, Katinka, we can watch Girls Gone

1002
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 1: Wild Exposed on June thirteen, that's Monday, June thirteen on

1003
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 1: t n T. We'll be tuning in. I can't wait

1004
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 1: to watch. After speaking with you and watching the trailer,

1005
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 1: I am I don't think excited is the right word,

1006
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: but I'm so intrigued about learning more about this case.

1007
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: And if you guys are in Mexico, keep an eye

1008
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 1: peeled for Joe Francis and don't give him your forty

1009
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: k and night to stay at a villa. There other

1010
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 1: villas in Mexico. You don't need to stay at his.

1011
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: Good Poka, Tanka, it has been wonderful chatting with you.

1012
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time today. We appreciate

1013
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: you something and thank you so much. Have a great

1014
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: evening to thank you too, Tinka. Well, she was. I mean,

1015
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 1: it's always interesting seeing someone that's so delightful. But clearly

1016
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 1: she's you know, she knows what she's doing. She's good

1017
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 1: her job, and I mean it's weird to think of

1018
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 1: someone the type of person that you need to make

1019
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: something like that right. In order to expose someone for

1020
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: being a douche bag, you have to have someone that's

1021
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: really good and wants to call that stuff out. Absolutely.

1022
00:58:56,040 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: I think, sorry, are we gonna Uh? I'm like, what

1023
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: order are we in? I think we're doing. I think

1024
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 1: we're just tagging it now and then we can go

1025
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 1: back and do the first part okay, great, um, so

1026
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: we'll just cut this part out. Thank you, Danielle Hi.

1027
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 1: All right, Wow, that was so specially getting to talk

1028
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 1: to Entaca. Wow, that was so special getting to speak

1029
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 1: with Katinka, And I'm very excited to tune in for

1030
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: the episode episode. This is what happens when you just

1031
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: get off a flight and then do a podcast. Hello,

1032
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: thank you so much, and you guys, this has been

1033
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 1: another episode of Real Time Crime. I've been Leo Lamar.

1034
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram, Twitter at Leo Lamar

1035
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 1: l E H L A M A r R and

1036
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,959
Speaker 1: on TikTok with five hours and obviously Real Time Crime Pod.

1037
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 1: Find us on Instagram, follow us Dmitri. Where can we

1038
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: find you on the internet. You can find me same

1039
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 1: thing Instagram and Twitter, says just at Dmitri pappas d

1040
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 1: E M E t R I P A P p

1041
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: A S No extras for savings, right, you guys, and

1042
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: as always, you can call him live. Have you seen

1043
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: a crime committed and you feel safe reporting it to us? Okay,

1044
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 1: do you feel like there's a detail we missed in

1045
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 1: a crime that we've talked about? Fill us in call us.

1046
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: Are you considering Oh, I cut off the jingle. If

1047
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 1: you're considering committing a crime, call us first. We can

1048
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: talk you down from it, unless the crime is stealing

1049
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: my heart, because my British boyfriend will be very upset.

1050
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: You guys, call us live at eight six six one

1051
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 1: crime that's eight six six to anyone. Come eight six

1052
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 1: six twenty one crime that's eight six six two on

1053
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: two seven four six three. Stay safe. We love you.

1054
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: Goodness my screen frost, goodbye, So actual slaves