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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff

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Speaker 2: rerun edition. That's right, it's the holidays, and that means

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Speaker 2: that I am going to run reruns. And I thought,

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Speaker 2: what's better to get us in the holiday spirit than

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Speaker 2: that holiday band. I've decided their holiday band the history

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Speaker 2: of everyone's favorite an arcopop band, Chumbawamba. It's probably not

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Speaker 2: a Christmas band. In fact, they might be annoyed if

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Speaker 2: I call them that. Well, it's too bad because it's

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Speaker 2: my podcast and this is a history of Chumbawamba. We'll

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Speaker 2: be back next week with a non rerun whatever you

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Speaker 2: call it a run, a regular run. Anyway, Here it

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Speaker 2: is Hello and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,

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Speaker 2: the podcast about all the cool people in history who

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Speaker 2: did cool stuff. I'm your host, Killjoy and with me

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Speaker 2: today is the one and only Max Collins, who might

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Speaker 2: not be the only Max Collins. There's probably a bunch

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Speaker 2: of Max Collins's.

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Speaker 3: There's probably a few.

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Speaker 2: Okay, are you are you aware of any other Max Collins?

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Speaker 2: Is it like a Highlander thing?

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Speaker 3: I'm not, but my my dad's name is Michael Collins

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Speaker 3: and sellouts. Yeah, yeah, he was for a while there

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Speaker 3: he was like getting stopped and flagged on flights because

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Speaker 3: like people thought that, you know, I don't know that name.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, uh, that.

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Speaker 2: He was the IRA musicians.

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, so he would have to be pulled aside

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Speaker 3: and made sure he wasn't you know an IRA guy?

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, who just is a lich and still alive?

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, for anyone who's listening, you might know Max

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Speaker 2: Collins as the son of the revolutionary IRA leader Michael. No,

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Speaker 2: you can't know Max Collins as the from the band

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Speaker 2: Eve six, or you might know him from a ship

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Speaker 2: post on Twitter. Max. How are you doing today?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing well. Thank you, thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. We also have Sophie on the call. Who's our producer, Sophie.

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Speaker 2: How are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing a well, Margaret, Thank you for asking.

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Speaker 2: Holl Right, No one ever asks me how I'm doing.

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Speaker 3: So how are you, Margaret?

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Speaker 2: I'm good. I'm really excited to top I had a

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Speaker 2: whole twenty minute conversation with you off Mike. I know

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Speaker 2: how you are, that's true, Margaret's well. Okay, listeners, I'm

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Speaker 2: doing so good today that I get to talk about

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Speaker 2: I'm literally wearing the shirt of today's topic.

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Speaker 3: So today wearing you're wearing the merch to the show,

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Speaker 3: so to speak.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So today we're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: a one hit wonder from the nineties. This is not

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Speaker 2: normally a music podcast, but I hope you all will

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Speaker 2: indulge me. It's gonna be worth it. Max. Have you

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Speaker 2: ever heard of a band called Jumbo Lumba?

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Speaker 3: Sure have yep?

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Speaker 2: So okay, completely have you have you ever like played

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Speaker 2: with them or anything like that? Am I talking about

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Speaker 2: like your friends? I have no idea what you know about?

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Speaker 3: No, I've never I've never met them. I know the

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Speaker 3: singer whose name I'm blanking on now, a.

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Speaker 2: Lot of singers Boff Whaley, Bruce. Well nope. Now I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be really embarrassed that I don't remember the

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Speaker 2: name of the people that I'm going to be talking

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Speaker 2: about because I can't remember names.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, yeah, I can't either, but yeah, the

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Speaker 3: main dude. After I did, I was interviewed for Mel

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Speaker 3: piece written by Magdalen forgetting her last name now l

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Speaker 3: I P. Mel. I think that's no longer a magazine,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, and spoke about you know, Chumble Womba for

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Speaker 3: for the piece, and apparently he liked it, was asked

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Speaker 3: for my email and stuff, was going to reach out,

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Speaker 3: but I never got an email from the man who

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Speaker 3: I'm disrespecting by not being able to remember him. Right.

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Speaker 2: It's more embarrassing for me because this is literally a

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Speaker 2: script about him, and I just am capable. For anyone

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Speaker 2: who's like, wow, Margaret sure knows all these dates and

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Speaker 2: all this history, it's because I write it down when

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Speaker 2: I researched things, and then it escapes me. But for

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Speaker 2: anyone who success to Dunstan Bruce, yes, yes, that name

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Speaker 2: that I also remembered, Dunstan Bruce. For anyone who was

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Speaker 2: either too young or successfully lived under a rock. During

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Speaker 2: the late nineties, there was this song called tub Thumping

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Speaker 2: and it's about drinking and falling over and then not

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Speaker 2: being falling over anymore. And it was fucking everywhere and

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Speaker 2: I fucking hated it. I was in high school and

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Speaker 2: I was busy setting myself up as someone who hated

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Speaker 2: everything that was popular, and that was my original introduction

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Speaker 2: to Chumba Womba.

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Speaker 4: Then okay, can I ask you a quick question, Huh

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Speaker 4: did you did you legitimately hate the song like did

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Speaker 4: it make you bristle with antagonism when you heard it,

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Speaker 4: if you were like alone in your car.

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Speaker 3: Or something like that, or did the version of yourself

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Speaker 3: that you wanted to enjoy and present to the world

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Speaker 3: did that you know, did that person not like Chumble Womba?

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Speaker 3: Because I know with radio rock of the nineties, you know,

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Speaker 3: like if tub Thumping or like Hey Jealousy or even

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Speaker 3: some of those live hits came on when I was

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Speaker 3: in my car alone, I would enjoy the shit out

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Speaker 3: of them. I would be totally moved by them and stuff. Yeah, definitely,

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Speaker 3: I definitely wasn't telling my friends, you know. Yeah, that's interesting,

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Speaker 3: sort of embarrassing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I I genuinely don't know the answer to

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Speaker 2: that question because I've like rewritten my own script in

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Speaker 2: my head.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: I think I tended not to like anything that was

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Speaker 2: happy in the late nineties, and so I think the

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Speaker 2: tub Thumping. But on the other hand, it is just

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Speaker 2: so like now I love this song, right, Yeah, And

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Speaker 2: actually Hey Jealousy, I actually always liked Hey Jealousy, But

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Speaker 2: I think it's because it was like just before I

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Speaker 2: got too cool for everything, right. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: I could go back. I whatever, I'm not mad at

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Speaker 2: my younger self, even though it was affectatious that I

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Speaker 2: refused everything that was like on I listened to the radio.

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Speaker 2: What am I doing listening to radio if I'm claiming

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Speaker 2: to hate everything on it? I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I know what you mean, though. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I started learning more about the band, and they'd

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Speaker 2: been around for almost twenty years before that song came out.

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Speaker 2: They were in an arcopunk collective. Selling out was this

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Speaker 2: calculated move to reach more people, sustain themselves, and just

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Speaker 2: give a fuck ton of money away to political projects

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Speaker 2: working to destroy capitalism. I found out that they started

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Speaker 2: out as working class kids who wanted to be in

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Speaker 2: a band but couldn't play any instruments and to know

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Speaker 2: how to sing. They lasted for thirty years. They toured

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Speaker 2: the world, They pranked everyone, They got arrested again and again.

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Speaker 2: They squatted a house. They work collectively. They took in runaways,

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Speaker 2: they raised kids, and along the way they learned how

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Speaker 2: to make really fucking good music. And so I will

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Speaker 2: present to you my hypothesis that Chumbawamba is the single

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Speaker 2: punkst thing to have ever happened, and no offense to

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Speaker 2: me and no offense to you, Max, But that is

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Speaker 2: my hypothesis that I'm working off of.

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Speaker 3: I'm with it cool.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if Crass is going to come and yell

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Speaker 2: at me, But you know, whatever't.

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Speaker 3: Isn't there a crossover there? I feel like maybe there's

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Speaker 3: an ex member of Crass who was in Tumbawamba or

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Speaker 3: something like that.

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Speaker 2: I know that they heavily influenced, well, Crass heavily influenced Chumbawamba.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about vice versa, because they like came

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Speaker 2: out just a few years after Crass kind of came

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Speaker 2: on the scene. But I don't know whether or not.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure that they all know each other now. And

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Speaker 2: so today the story I want to present is the

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Speaker 2: story of a band that's sold out, but in a

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Speaker 2: good way, the Chumbowamba story. Yeah, and I'm how I'm

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Speaker 2: glad I got over myself. That's the subtext, Margaret herself.

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Speaker 2: We start our story in Burnley, somewhere, some nowhere town

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Speaker 2: in northern England, population ninety one thousand people, and it's

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Speaker 2: in the northern England. I didn't know this growing up,

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Speaker 2: so maybe other Americans didn't know this. It's the poorer

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Speaker 2: part of England, the place you're supposed to make fun

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Speaker 2: of everyone who's from for being like backwards and provincial.

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Speaker 2: The Northern accent gets compared to the Southern accent, or

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Speaker 2: maybe the Appalachian accent in terms of its social impact

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Speaker 2: is the best I've ever heard it described. And Burnley,

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Speaker 2: where they start, is this sort of town where all

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Speaker 2: the factory jobs had gone overseas and the town is

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Speaker 2: quietly dying, just familiar to you know, many people who

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Speaker 2: might be listening to this. Most of the band is

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Speaker 2: from there. Born in the sixties. Off Whaley, the guitarist.

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Speaker 2: He's the one who he got tasked with writing the

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Speaker 2: book about Chumbo Wamba at some point. So I know

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Speaker 2: more about his childhood than anyone else's because he wrote

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Speaker 2: a book about it and I read the book. But

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Speaker 2: he's not the protagonist or the lead singer or in

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Speaker 2: charge of Chumbawamba. They were all very aggressively a collective

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Speaker 2: at all times. But he's one of the founders, and

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Speaker 2: so he wrote the book, so we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about him. He was a Mormon as a teenager, his

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Speaker 2: mom had converted. He was a believer. He was raised poor,

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Speaker 2: thankfully estranged from a shitty birth dad, and he had

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Speaker 2: a pretty cool stepdad. Well probably I didn't know.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know that there were British Mormons.

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Speaker 2: Well, so he's the only one who started off Mormon

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Speaker 2: that I'm aware of. Maybe the other ones did. I

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Speaker 2: think that.

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying in general, I thought Mormonism was a

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Speaker 3: distinctly American.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I see what you're saying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know religious phenomenon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was yeah. They I don't know exactly how

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Speaker 2: it hit the sixties in England, but I was reading

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Speaker 2: about that and I had kind of a similar reaction,

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Speaker 2: being like, this thing has gotten out of Salt Lake City. Yea,

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Speaker 2: someone should do something about that. I mean, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: And so so Boff. He's raised in this family, seems

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Speaker 2: like a reasonably happy family childhood or he's not the

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Speaker 2: type to talk shit about his family in an autobiography.

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Speaker 2: And he's really into football, British football, soccer, whatever, and

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Speaker 2: he's really shit at it. And in nineteen seventy six,

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Speaker 2: I think he's about fifteen years old, maybe fourteen, he

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Speaker 2: sees the sex pistols on TV and singing anarchy in

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Speaker 2: the UK. He sees Johnny Rotten, and he's like, this

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Speaker 2: is it. I'm in I'm going to be a punk,

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Speaker 2: which is way more original than me deciding I'm going

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Speaker 2: to be a punk in like you know, the early ots,

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Speaker 2: early nineties or whatever. His best friend Midge is into

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Speaker 2: punk too, and Midge's dad is upset with saving electricity

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Speaker 2: to save money. So it's this house, like imagine a

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Speaker 2: house where like all of the light bulbs are forty

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Speaker 2: watt light bulbs and everything's dark all the time. And

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Speaker 2: his dad would yell at you if you rang the

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Speaker 2: doorbell too many times because you're wasting his electricity. And

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Speaker 2: Midge wore pants so tight, and this is the opposite

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Speaker 2: of my experience of being a teenager in the nineties.

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Speaker 2: He wore pants so tight that he had to cut

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Speaker 2: slits in the bottom for his feet to go through.

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Speaker 2: And again direct opposition also to the style of the time,

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Speaker 2: which was flared jeans.

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Speaker 3: Yeah no, that's amazing because we would cut slits in

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Speaker 3: our pants too, But I mean we were buying like

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Speaker 3: size forty waist, yeah, pants from like Ross Dress for

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Speaker 3: less and then cutting triangles in the bottom and adding

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Speaker 3: a piece of fabric under it to make them even

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Speaker 3: bigger because the goal was you wanted your adida's shelters

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Speaker 3: to be completely covered, completely shrouded by pant Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love my elephant leg pants. In the nineties,

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Speaker 2: I used to walk around barefoot underneath them because because

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Speaker 2: no one knew I was, No one knew yeah, and

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Speaker 2: I felt very you know, I would. I would end

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Speaker 2: up in like cities. I would take public transit to

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Speaker 2: like other cities and just feel very like edgy that

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Speaker 2: I had successfully gone without. Okay, anyway, so we have

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Speaker 2: the opposite of the So Boff and Midge. They're going

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Speaker 2: to shows whenever they can. It's the late seventies, and

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Speaker 2: one day in nineteen seventy seven they're at a bus

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Speaker 2: stop and they see a kid across the street who's

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Speaker 2: wearing a straight jacket, a homemade straight jacket that he

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Speaker 2: made for himself out of a parkap and that he

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Speaker 2: needed his mom's help to get into. And they're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: we got to be friends with that guy. So they

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Speaker 2: go and meet that guy. His name is Dan. He's

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Speaker 2: going to be in Chumble one but two. Boff says

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Speaker 2: in his autobiography that he hated school. He never did

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Speaker 2: his homework and shit, and this might have been true,

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Speaker 2: but he also like got into Oxford and Cambridge, So

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Speaker 2: I wonder how much this is, how accurate this is.

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Speaker 2: I don't know enough about British but he says that

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Speaker 2: the main reason he went to school is that him

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Speaker 2: and his friend were selling bootleg records. They would take

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Speaker 2: a bus to another town and they meet this like sketchy,

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Speaker 2: grown ass adult with food in his beard who would

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Speaker 2: sell these kids illegally copied classic rock on vinyl. And

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Speaker 2: then they would go back and be like, hey, do

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Speaker 2: you want to buy a record? You know, hey, do

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Speaker 2: you want to buy pink Floyd or whatever? To the

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Speaker 2: other kids in school, And the same bootlegger later pays

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Speaker 2: for a bunch of the local punks to record their albums,

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Speaker 2: which I think is fucking cool. I like this weird, random,

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Speaker 2: sketchy bootlegger guy. He loses religion soon enough. He starts

256
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Speaker 2: looking at his options, you know, he's like looking around.

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Speaker 2: He's like, I don't know if I want to be religious.

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Speaker 2: A punk girl takes him home after a UK sub

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Speaker 2: show and fox him, and he's like, nah no, this

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Speaker 2: is it the sex rock and roll punk rock fuck Mormonism,

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Speaker 2: and so they start a band and they have a problem.

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Speaker 2: None of them know how to play any instruments. So

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Speaker 2: they add more friends, presumably to get more of a

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Speaker 2: chance to learn how to play instruments. But they're other

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Speaker 2: friends they had also don't know how to play any instruments.

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Speaker 2: One of them who did not end up in Chumba

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Speaker 2: one because he moved away. His name was high Jumping

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Speaker 2: the Deem. He's a South Asian immigrant who I sent

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Speaker 2: up for the high jump and then jumped into the

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Speaker 2: pole because it was funny. And then they had Bootleg Phil.

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Speaker 2: Everyone has cool names when they're teenagers, you know, Bootleg

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Speaker 2: Phil was the bootlegging partner.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: This is this is how your band started to write

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Speaker 2: none of you all could do anything. I actually, I

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Speaker 2: actually don't know much about the orgin of your band,

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Speaker 2: and so I'm curious.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think a lot of bands start

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Speaker 3: that way. You know, our story was just a lot

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Speaker 3: less illustrious, interesting and cool.

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Speaker 2: Well, if you wrote the book on it, you could

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Speaker 2: probably figure out a way to do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, figure out a way to sort of dress it up.

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Speaker 3: But uh, but yeah, I think I think that's a

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Speaker 3: fairly common tale, but it's sounds like, I mean, with us,

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Speaker 3: we could sort of make our way, you know, uh,

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Speaker 3: through some chords and stuff like that. It sounds like

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Speaker 3: maybe tumble Lumba was like, you know, really quite literally

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Speaker 3: coming at this with you know, absolutely zero Yeah, musical

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Speaker 3: education or proficiency.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, although it's interesting because I do wonder a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I've watched some of their older videos. They had this

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Speaker 2: band I'm about to get to you called Chimpet's Banana

294
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Speaker 2: and there, and the book is like, oh, we didn't

295
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Speaker 2: know anything, we didn't know how to tune our instruments.

296
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Speaker 2: But it's actually like passable punk rock. Like I've seen

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Speaker 2: videos of them playing and I'm like, no, I would

298
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Speaker 2: have a good time at this show, you know, and so.

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Speaker 3: And it see it seems like they're you know, there's

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Speaker 3: maybe a little bit of a theme developing here where

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Speaker 3: you know, in some sense they're writing their own lore

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Speaker 3: a little bit. Yeah, yeah, which is fine, you know,

303
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Speaker 3: which is great, But it sounds like, yeah, maybe one

304
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Speaker 3: dude was like a little bit more academically inclined than

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Speaker 3: he yets on. Yeah, yeah, maybe they were a little

306
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Speaker 3: bit more talented than they're letting on. But yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: all good. I'm here for the story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And I actually I really appreciate that they're

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Speaker 2: participate in mythologizing, you know, yeah, I think that's great.

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Speaker 3: I do too.

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Speaker 2: And so they formed this band called Chimpeats Banana and

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Speaker 2: basically they're like at this thing where this promoter is like, oh,

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Speaker 2: if you're in a band, write down the name of

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Speaker 2: your band on this slip of paper. And so they

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Speaker 2: write down Chimpeats Banana, even though they're not a band,

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Speaker 2: and he calls them up and he's like, hey, you

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Speaker 2: got a gig, And so they go and play shows,

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Speaker 2: and they play a couple dozen shows. I believe it's

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Speaker 2: Chimpeats Banana. And they theme each one differently, and they're

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Speaker 2: already art weirdos from the very beginning. Like one of

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Speaker 2: them is like, Okay, this one we dress in pajamas,

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Speaker 2: this one we lie around in lounge chairs. They do

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Speaker 2: whatever they want, and they you know, again, they claim

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Speaker 2: they're terrible. I've seen footage and yeah, I would go yeah,

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Speaker 2: and they're still in high school or whatever the fuck

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Speaker 2: British people call high school. You think I would know

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Speaker 2: because British people make better high school TV than Americans do,

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Speaker 2: but I don't know what they call it. So they're

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Speaker 2: punk's in high school and they spend their time like

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Speaker 2: getting in trouble and they enjoyed. They get you know,

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Speaker 2: they adorn their jackets with safety pins and get called

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Speaker 2: into the administrator's office for that, and they like spit

333
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Speaker 2: on adults. And they also are really into football and

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Speaker 2: being football fans, which is not in the normal punk narrative.

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Speaker 2: And I find it really interesting. I don't know, are

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Speaker 2: you I know Sophie is a big sports player.

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Speaker 3: Well, I do, remember, I do remember. How should I

338
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:48,960
Speaker 3: introduce him? You know, punk pravocateur, you know, infamous lead

339
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Speaker 3: singer of Screeching Weasel Ben Weasel Penning. I think he

340
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Speaker 3: maybe even had a column in maximum rocking role where

341
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Speaker 3: he would talk about baseball all the time. He was

342
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Speaker 3: like a massive, massive baseball fan. Yeah, and yeah, I

343
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Speaker 3: always like it when punk rockers like play against type

344
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Speaker 3: like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Sophie, I went and found you punks who liked sports.

346
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Speaker 2: That was my sole purpose. That was not my sole purpose.

347
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Speaker 2: But so so Boff graduates and goes off and he

348
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,919
Speaker 2: gets offered to go to Cambridge or Oxford, and he's like, no,

349
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Speaker 2: fuck all that. He goes to a local school, like

350
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:26,960
Speaker 2: a local trade school for a minute, and then he

351
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,320
Speaker 2: goes off to art school near London, and at one

352
00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,879
Speaker 2: point he gets arrested for being a punk, like it's

353
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Speaker 2: the first time he's arrested, and they accused him of

354
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,720
Speaker 2: having stolen his own camera, and he's wearing a shirt

355
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:38,479
Speaker 2: that says, I don't want to go to art school,

356
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Speaker 2: so I don't know whatever. He arresticated, goes to art

357
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 2: school for wearing a shirt sause I don't go to

358
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Speaker 2: art I don't want to go to art school. Fair enough.

359
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:46,760
Speaker 3: Fair enough.

360
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Speaker 2: He drops out because he was true to his shirt.

361
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,639
Speaker 2: He drops out, and he buys a twenty pound guitar,

362
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,320
Speaker 2: which is not a weight but instead of a unit

363
00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,440
Speaker 2: of ye measurement of price, So it's a once stone

364
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 2: six pounds guitar.

365
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Speaker 3: Right, it wasn't a less Paul.

366
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so he goes back home and all the

367
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,720
Speaker 2: punks are hanging out in this new spot railway workers

368
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 2: club that some guy named Spider was renting out once

369
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,199
Speaker 2: a week, And it was Spider who introduced bof to

370
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,760
Speaker 2: the works of dead nineteenth century anarchists like Melatesta and Bakunin.

371
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,400
Speaker 2: It was Spider and Bob's new girlfriend Lou who ends

372
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 2: up in Chumbawampa. Literally, she gets dragged into the band

373
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,120
Speaker 2: because she's the only person who knows how to sing,

374
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,639
Speaker 2: and they're like, we have shows, will you come sing

375
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 2: for us if we don't know how to sing. Boff

376
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 2: gets a job as a postal carrier. He is a

377
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 2: dead end job. He doesn't like it. He doesn't want

378
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 2: an office life. They all spend half their time skipping

379
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,680
Speaker 2: work and hitchhiking around the country to go to punk shows,

380
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 2: and they sleep and bus shelters and they just are

381
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 2: punks in the late seventies, which actually sounds really nice.

382
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 2: It sounds like a really it's time to be allowed

383
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 2: to be real.

384
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

385
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 2: Around this time high Jumping, the Deem moves with this

386
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 2: family to Tampa, Florida, and a few months later, the

387
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 2: rest of the heroes. They give up on sleepy Burnley

388
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:07,880
Speaker 2: and they move to the big city of Leeds, which

389
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 2: is an hour east of Burnley. And so Chimp Eats

390
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,480
Speaker 2: Banana is done and now Chumbawamba is the new thing.

391
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,239
Speaker 2: They're both terrible names. They don't improve upon their name

392
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 2: as far as I'm concerned, The four of them they

393
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,439
Speaker 2: rent a place there like and they go to college,

394
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,360
Speaker 2: and then they drop out of college, and then they

395
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 2: try and figure out how to actually have a band,

396
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 2: and they start just swapping instruments constantly and just spending

397
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 2: all of their time. They build a practice space with

398
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 2: like egg cartons on the wall and just like, try

399
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 2: to have a fucking band. Summer of nineteen eighty one,

400
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 2: they say fuck it. Four of them with one acoustic

401
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 2: guitar and one snare drum. They hitchhike to Paris. They

402
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 2: start squatting a stadium like they just it wasn't an

403
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 2: abandoned stadium. They just sneak in at night and sleep

404
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 2: in the stands and then try to slink off unnoticed

405
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,399
Speaker 2: in the morning, off to go busk all day in

406
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 2: the big fancy city, making enough money for food and beer,

407
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,919
Speaker 2: basically being twenty eighth year old punks. And that's how

408
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 2: they start Chumbawamba. And their name was picked to mean nothing.

409
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 2: Every time they tell the story of how they got

410
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 2: the name, they tell a different lie. The most prevalent story,

411
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 2: which reporters now report is fact, but bof Whaley says

412
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 2: this is a lie when he recounts it in his book.

413
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 2: So who fucking knows? Is that while they were busking

414
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 2: in Paris they got hellic outclassed by a bunch of

415
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 2: drummers from Africa who were chanting something that to them

416
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 2: sounded like chum chumba whalen. And if so, this is

417
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 2: the biggest thing that they did that doesn't look very

418
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 2: good in retrospect, you know, being like, oh, that sounds

419
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 2: like nonsense. Let's take it, you know, but who knows?

420
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 2: Who fucking knows? They also claim that they got it

421
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 2: from some pub where there were two genders on the

422
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:50,399
Speaker 2: bathroom and one was Chumba and one was Wumba. However

423
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,160
Speaker 2: got the name. They played their first show on January eighth,

424
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, which before I'd done so much as

425
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 2: be born. They're way ahead of me, Chumba Womba. I'm

426
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 2: pretty bitter about this. I have a lot of catching

427
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 2: up to do. Like the rest of their shows, at

428
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 2: this time, everyone ignores them, and they just did weird

429
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 2: shit and called it punk. They film projected behind them

430
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 2: of everyone wearing dresses and hanging out in a graveyard.

431
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,719
Speaker 2: They oh, they're weird fucking punk kids. I like them,

432
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 2: I clearly like them. I am recording a podcast that

433
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 2: was about it. Thank you everyone listen to me talking

434
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 2: about his band as I think is cool. Their second

435
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 2: show was in Tampa, Florida. They flew to Tampa to

436
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 2: visit their friend Na Deem, and they played a show

437
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 2: where everyone ignored them and they got kicked out of

438
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 2: Nadem's house by his mom forgetting the carpets.

439
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 3: Gross. Can you imagine this iteration of this anarcho communist

440
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 3: band playing in Tampa, Florida in the early nineteen eighties

441
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 3: like that that you could not, you know, dream up

442
00:22:53,760 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 3: a more hostile environment for them. Totally, totally.

443
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 2: So. So back in England they pick up Dunstan Bruce,

444
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 2: whose name I obviously remember this whole time. I'm sorry,

445
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 2: Dunstan if you ever listened to this, I just don't

446
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 2: remember names. Who put up a bandmate's wanted sign in

447
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: a shop. And he's the guy who ends up the

448
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 2: male lead singing the male lead on top thumping. We'll

449
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 2: get to top pumping. He after he meets the punks,

450
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 2: he drops out of architecture school and moves into their

451
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 2: shitty apartment. He gets disowned by his high society dad

452
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: for doing all of this, which I think makes him

453
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 2: like the rich kid of the band compared to everyone else's,

454
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 2: like these small town punks. But obviously this gets really

455
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 2: messy when you throw in disowned, right, Like, I don't

456
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 2: know what that looked like. You know, I have a

457
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 2: friend of mine who like grew up southern society rich, right,

458
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 2: but he got kicked out of the house when he

459
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 2: was sixteen for being trans Like does he have class privilege?

460
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's a fucking me. He's fucking homeless

461
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 2: kid when he was sixteen, you know.

462
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, these are class traders, yeah yeah.

463
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 2: And speaking of class traders, in the opposite direction, this

464
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 2: show is supported by advertisers. This is pointing out that, well,

465
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 2: actually here we'll have good advertisers this time. So so

466
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 2: this show, whenever possible, we try to be sponsored by

467
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 2: very positive things. Like my favorite perennial is well it's

468
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: actually it's a season, it's a it's an annual crop.

469
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 2: But potatoes, the concept of potatoes is what I like

470
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: to be sponsored by because I think potatoes are very good.

471
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: We've also had other sponsors such as Sleeping Dogs, Sophie,

472
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 2: what are some of the what are our what are

473
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 2: some of our repeating are.

474
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: Really good calm drinkable tap water, a pillow that always

475
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: stays cool.

476
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 2: Oh I like that one.

477
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 3: Yeah that's good.

478
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. So is there anyone that you would like to

479
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: be sponsored by in this and for this show, like

480
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 2: something that's just you feel good about?

481
00:24:54,880 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd like to be sponsored word by Conceptual Kindness

482
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 3: and Aspirational Love.

483
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 2: All right, So this show is sponsored only by Conceptual Kindness,

484
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 2: Aspirational Love and Sleeping Dogs. And if there's any other

485
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: advertisers that you hear, that is a problem, and you

486
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 2: should write to Sophie on Twitter at I write, okay

487
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 2: and complain and we are back from those ads are ray? Okay?

488
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: So so as important to the music that they're around

489
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 2: at this time, the things that are inspiring them is

490
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: also the radical politics at the time. They're involved in

491
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: the anti nuclear movement, this like peace movement against the

492
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 2: Falkland Wars, which I literally only know about because of

493
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 2: eighties punk. You know, the American education system wasn't like

494
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 2: really big on the wars of the twentieth century of England.

495
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 2: And Margaret Thatcher is coming to power, who again I

496
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,959
Speaker 2: only know about through punk, but it was a safe yeah,

497
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: not a popular person in the punk scene in Yeah. Basically,

498
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 2: Margaret Thatcher is this right wing asshle who gives Margaret's

499
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: a bad name everywhere and was prime Minister the whole

500
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: of the eighties. And then there's Crass And if I

501
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 2: ever become a music podcast then Crass will end up

502
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 2: on it. But unlike some other like kind of would

503
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 2: be radicals at the time who would like quote the

504
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 2: situationist but not really mean it, Crass like was the opposite.

505
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 2: They like, they meant it about politics, specifically like anarchist pacifism,

506
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 2: and they there are this collective of ex hippies and

507
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: punks who redefined punk music for better and worse Musically, politically,

508
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 2: I think they're fucking great, although I'm not pacifist, but whatever,

509
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 2: But like you know, they change punk punk's direction in

510
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: a lot of ways, and they tied it into direct

511
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 2: action in the peace movement. And the point of me

512
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 2: bringing up Crass is so I can tell you, and

513
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: I guess accidentally the audience the most embarrassing punk thing

514
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 2: I've ever done, oh good, which was that one time

515
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 2: me and two of my friends started an acoustic crass

516
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 2: cover band with cello, accordion and guitar, and we were

517
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 2: so we were so let's say good. We were so

518
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 2: good at this that not only did we get kicked

519
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: out of the bar that we were playing that we

520
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 2: had been booked to play, the entire convention that booked

521
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 2: us to play this bar got kicked out of the bar.

522
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: They were like, you know what, we don't want you

523
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 2: here anymore, even though you paid to be here.

524
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 3: And that's fantastic.

525
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And actually the cellist of that is the person

526
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 2: who did our theme music on Woman. She's actually very

527
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: good cellist in his my fault that the band was

528
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 2: terrible anyway, very proud of this. Have you, uh you

529
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: have any worst terrible things that you've managed to do

530
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 2: in this vein curious.

531
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 3: Let me think for a second year, I mean in

532
00:27:54,119 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 3: terms of like mortifying moments on stage. Sure, yeah, one

533
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 3: leaps to mind, which is going to be really funny

534
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 3: contextually here, because but we did My band EVE six

535
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 3: did a co headlining tour with the band gold Finger

536
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: in the year two thousand or two thousand and one.

537
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 3: And you know, Goldfinger by comparison to EP six, which

538
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 3: is you know, a radio run the bands too public perception.

539
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 3: You know, Goldfinger was a punk and so we would

540
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 3: go on every night usually like a handful of middle

541
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 3: fingers or like you know, like gold Finger, who's a

542
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,239
Speaker 3: real punk band and you're six and you know your

543
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 3: radio rock you suck. And you know, this was in

544
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 3: my drinking days, so you know, I was I was

545
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 3: hitting the stage you know, with anywhere between like sort

546
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 3: of a buzz to being like pretty substantially loaded. And

547
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 3: so this one night, I think we were actually in

548
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 3: Salt Lake City, and this one dude just wasn't putting

549
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: his middle finger down and it was really and it

550
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 3: was really grinding my gears. So I was like I

551
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 3: kind of beckoned him up to the front of the stage.

552
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 3: I like, come here, and so he did. He came

553
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 3: up to the front of the stage and I had

554
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 3: like three quarters of behind agn that was like next

555
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 3: to my microphone, and I dumped it on his head.

556
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 3: I just emptied the entire thing. And this guy said,

557
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 3: and and that want some people over, you know.

558
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, because now you're real punks, right, Because now I'm

559
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: real punk, I like.

560
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 3: You know, and and then so like I sauntered back

561
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 3: to center stage. We had a bass player out with

562
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 3: us at the time, so I was just being like

563
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 3: douchebag singer guy. And you know, we start a song

564
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 3: and I put my foot on the wedge like a

565
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: rock god and promptly slipped because like I got some

566
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 3: of the beer on either the wedge or the bottom

567
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 3: of my foot, so super slippery, and I slipped and

568
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 3: ate shit, like I fell all the way down to

569
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 3: the ground. It was the most like instantaneous karmic retribution

570
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 3: I've ever experienced.

571
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: That is perfect.

572
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it sucked, but you know it also felt

573
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 3: kind of deserved, so it was like, you know, I'll

574
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 3: take this one on the chin.

575
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like both things are perfectly good, you know,

576
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: like both things just make a better story.

577
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 3: Like both things are fine.

578
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: Everyone who went was like two crazy things happened tonight,

579
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, so fuck yeah.

580
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

581
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: So in nineteen eighty two, some some of Tumbawamba by

582
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: a school bus with a few older punks, like mid

583
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: twenties punks, and they make the decision to buy the

584
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: bus pretty much because the guy selling it had six

585
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 2: six six in his phone number, and they fix up

586
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 2: the bus they head off to Europe to bum around

587
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: in a bus, and they busk enough money for food

588
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: and fuel. They park every night at the outskirts of town.

589
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: They had bonfires and argued about politics. They played impromptu

590
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: shows to people who did not give a shit at all,

591
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: Like they would just like show up at a cafe

592
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 2: and like pull instruments out of the bus and play

593
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 2: and everyone's like, what the fuck is happening?

594
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 3: This sucks.

595
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: Sometimes they would just put on a cassette recording of

596
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: music and pretend to play along on tennis rackets like

597
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: as guitars, and all the people on the bus took

598
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: on ridiculous punk names like Don Quixote and Matt Hatter

599
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: and Legal Aid.

600
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 3: It's awesome. I love the conversience here of like hippie

601
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 3: aesthetics with punk ones. You know, yeah exactly, you got

602
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 3: the reappropriated bus. Yeah, you know, bonfires and stuff it,

603
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 3: you know, almost distinctions without difference when you compare them

604
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 3: to yeah.

605
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, no totally, and like the whole thing just sounds

606
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: like everything I dreamed of doing when I was a teenager,

607
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: you know, totally. But the ten people crammed into the bus,

608
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 2: they start to lose their minds. One of them decides

609
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 2: he's Jesus. Fun arguments turn into not fun arguments. The

610
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 2: bus keeps breaking down and they have to hustle like

611
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 2: hell for spare parts and gas. One one guy gets

612
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: off the bus in France and literally no one has

613
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 2: ever seen him again. One by one everyone was.

614
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: It the guy. I wonder if it was the guy

615
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 3: who decided he was Jeesus.

616
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: That seems the most likely. Yeah, although don Quixote and

617
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 2: Mad Hatter are fully up there as.

618
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 3: Born also born travelers.

619
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And you know, one by one everyone leaves,

620
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: and to be honest, this sounds like most of the

621
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 2: times I've done. Basically this like travel around in a

622
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 2: bus where people are like, Wow, we're gonna have this

623
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 2: great communal experience. Then one by one everyone's like, I

624
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: want my own life. Thigh yeah, yeah, yeah. So the

625
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 2: three lads of Chumbawamba, who are on the bus at

626
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 2: this point, they go and they pick and I they

627
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 2: go pick grapes in the south of France, and they

628
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: decide they're not getting paid enough and they're young anarchists,

629
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 2: so they go on strike. So they get fired, and

630
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: then they go home to England and four of them

631
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: move into a squat in Leeds and it's called the

632
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 2: South View House. And it's this huge Victorian red brick

633
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 2: almost mansion in a state of near collapse. It was

634
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 2: falling apart when they moved in. It had been squatted

635
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: on and off for a long time. There's an overturned

636
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 2: black Volkswagen Beetle in the middle of the garden. Scavengers

637
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 2: have been all over it. They've stolen everything worth stealing,

638
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: down to the doorknobs. And the floorboards have been stolen

639
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: out of this house. It has never occurred to me

640
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 2: that floorboards have value value. Yeah, and the banisters they

641
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: steal the banisters and the furniture. Not Chumbawamba whoever had

642
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 2: been there before.

643
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

644
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 2: The guy actually who had been the most immediately previous

645
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 2: squatter had just moved out and so they decided it

646
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: was free to move in. Was a guy who only

647
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 2: ate avocados and wore a loincloth and followed a religion

648
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 2: called Life Wave, which I tried to learn more. Yeah,

649
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 2: I try to learn more about Life Wave, but unfortunately

650
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: not available through Google. So usually when I say that,

651
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 2: Sophie looks something up in about thirty seconds and then

652
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: schools me on it. So they move in and they

653
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 2: start fixing everything up. They dump all their money and

654
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: time into the house. They learn electrical and plumbing and

655
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: all of that shit in the process. They although by

656
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: the end they're in this house for like ten or

657
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: ten years or more by the end there.

658
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 3: And it's it's no small feat at that time to

659
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 3: learn electrical and plumbing. It's not like you're going to

660
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 3: YouTube videos. No, that's a good pot checking out books

661
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 3: from a library.

662
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, and finding some old guy who kind of hates

663
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 2: you because you're a hippie and being like, hey, can

664
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 2: you teach me how to fix this thing?

665
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 3: Yeah? Totally. Yeah.

666
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 2: No, that's a good point because I'm like, oh, I

667
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 2: can do a lot of that stuff. And I'm like

668
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: I watch YouTube every night. I like, this is what

669
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: I do to decompress, is I watch people rewire things

670
00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: and say I rewire things now. Yeah, so far, so good.

671
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 2: By the end, they claim that the house is held

672
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 2: together by the yellow paint on the walls, like the

673
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 2: cracks they just paint over with yellow paint, over and over.

674
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 2: Within a year, there's nine of them living there, including

675
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: a bunch of their old punk friends, from Burnley, Alice

676
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 2: Nutter and Lou who end up in Chumbawamba pretty much

677
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 2: its whole thirty year run as an actual band, and

678
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: Alice Nutter she's named after a woman who'd been murdered

679
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: for witchcraft in I believe Northern England hundreds of years earlier.

680
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 2: They live communally, They pull their money, they shoplift what

681
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 2: they need. They pay off Alice's crime debt because when

682
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 2: she first moved in, she had committed a bunch of

683
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 2: felony level fraud and they had to pay it all

684
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 2: off collectively, which is very nice of everyone.

685
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 3: I think it's awesome.

686
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 2: Alice later refers to this house as the first place

687
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 2: that she ever felt secure, the first home that she had,

688
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 2: you know, and I doubt she was the only one

689
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 2: who felt that way. I just found her quote about it.

690
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 2: Not everyone in the house joins the house band Shumbawamba,

691
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 2: but most of them did. And it's kind of interesting,

692
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 2: right because this is now I'm totally off script, but

693
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 2: it's it's kind of interesting right because, like on the bus,

694
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: it's this classic hippie dream and it kind of just

695
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: seems like it goes terribly but this house, they pull

696
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: it off. You know, it doesn't last forever. Nothing lasts forever,

697
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: but they they do pull this off. Everyone cooks, everyone cleans.

698
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: Everyone sort of collectively gave gardening a shot, but then

699
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 2: failed to grow potatoes. That's not even me making a

700
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 2: potato joke like it usually is. They tried to grow

701
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 2: potatoes and they got blight, and everyone was like, you know,

702
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,479
Speaker 2: it's actually easier to buy bulk food. Let's just buy bulk.

703
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 2: They run a printing press, I believe in their basement,

704
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: start publishing anarchist pamphlets. They rescue a dog and make

705
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: him their mascot. They went vegan to various levels of strictness. Again,

706
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 2: this is the early eighties for a brief and terrible moment.

707
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 2: This is me making a potato reference for no good reason.

708
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 2: For a brief and terrible moment. One of them, Dan

709
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 2: goes on a strict diet that precludes potatoes because he

710
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 2: got mashed And now I'm he got mashed potatoes in

711
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 2: his ear from a food fight and he had to

712
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 2: go to the doctor and I got really sick from this,

713
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 2: like infected.

714
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 3: I love these people so much. I am sane. My

715
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 3: heart is swelling there, I know.

716
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: And so he gets he goes on this like super

717
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 2: strict all natural diet, and then eventually he gives up

718
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 2: and goes back to whatever else he was eating, And

719
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 2: they start watching their neighbors kids after school, and years later,

720
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 2: still in the squatted house, two of them have kids

721
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 2: of their own. Two fifteen year old runaway punks move

722
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: in and Lou and bof have to go down and

723
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 2: meet their parents and basically be like, hey, uh, your

724
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,479
Speaker 2: kids run away from home and they're in our house

725
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 2: and you should let them stay. We're not a cult,

726
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: totally not a cult. We promise you we're not a cult.

727
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 2: And it works, the kids stay, They join Shambawamba. At

728
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 2: least one of them wrote that shit all the way

729
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: up to fucking world tour, you know, number two in

730
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: the pop charts, fucking which which fucking's so awesome. Yeah,

731
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 2: like that is that is the fifteen I mean, it's

732
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: unfortunately fifteen year old runaways dream, you know. Yeah, And

733
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 2: so they're they're all already I mean, they're punks and

734
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 2: they're punk band, but they're already going art and pop

735
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 2: and theater directions with their music. And Alice is opening

736
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 2: the shows by reading feminist poetry. And one of the

737
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 2: first pranks that they run is they start a skinhead

738
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 2: band to make fun of the right wing skinhead scene,

739
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 2: and they call themselves skin Disease, and.

740
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 3: I remember reading. Yeah, it's one of the most incredible trolls. Yeah,

741
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 3: of all the time. They they fight a brave and

742
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 3: a brave one too, because you're talking about like a

743
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 3: pretty violent, you know opposition here.

744
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 2: No, that's a really good point. Yeah, like walking in

745
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 2: especially as a bunch of like at this point, they're

746
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: still pacifists walking into this scene that really likes fighting

747
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 2: people and making fun of them.

748
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

749
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 2: And so they tell this OI compilation to record their song,

750
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: and their song is called I'm Thick and the lyrics

751
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: is they just say I'm thick sixty.

752
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 3: And over and over.

753
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it appears on the compilation along with

754
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: all these like right wing patriotic songs. It's not like

755
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 2: a Nazi compilation. It's a like go England, we beat

756
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 2: the Falkland War whatever, like yeah, yeah, you know back

757
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 2: when you used to have right wingers who were't Nazis

758
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 2: in the Western world. Yeah, yeah, no, okay, and so

759
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 2: and so at this point there's still pacifists because the

760
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 2: anarchist scene in the early eighties in England and probably

761
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 2: because of Krass. And then in nineteen eighty four they

762
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: play a benefit for the minor strike that was going

763
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 2: on alongside the York's Old Punk band, and Nazis show

764
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: up and attack and they end the show by stabbing

765
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 2: people right Jesus and basically apparently make fun of everyone

766
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 2: for being too pacifist to fight back, and then sort

767
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: of home in leads someone a right wing person like

768
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: smashes up their van while it's in the driveway to

769
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 2: like get the Commis or whatever, and so Chumba one

770
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 2: was like, all right, you know what, we're not pacifists anymore,

771
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 2: this which makes sense to me. I mean, it's like

772
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 2: part of why I'm not pacifists. I'm like, well, Nazis, Nazis.

773
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 2: That's that's the end of the argument. It's Nazis.

774
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

775
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 2: So they get a baseball bat and when the van

776
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: smasher came back, they swarmed him. They held him down

777
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 2: and basically were like, hey, if you fucking come near

778
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 2: us again, you're leaving an ambulance. And he didn't come

779
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 2: around to fuck with them anymore, but you know what

780
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 2: will fuck with you? Are products and services that support

781
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: this podcast, Sophie. Are they pacifists or are they violence us?

782
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 2: I can't remember. Are we supported by both sides of

783
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 2: that argument?

784
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: We are supported by both sides of that argument for sure.

785
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: Capitalism very good at playing both sides of that particular argument.

786
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 2: Violence for them, peace for their opposition. I think that's

787
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 2: the yeah post, here's some ads. Okay, we're back. And

788
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 2: so they've now changed their attitude, and they did more

789
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 2: than play benefit shows for the minor strike. They print

790
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: up posters, they organized, they joined pickets. And one of

791
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: the things that I like about this part of the

792
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 2: story is that, like they were punks, and so they

793
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 2: weren't necessarily culturally the same as the miners that they

794
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 2: were working in solidarity with. But they're from the same towns, right,

795
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: Like they are not this like totally distinct like rich,

796
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 2: not everyone who clearly not everyone who lives in cities

797
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,399
Speaker 2: is rich, but like they're not like coming in from

798
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 2: outside and being like, oh, you poor miners, let us

799
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: like look down upon you. These are people from these areas,

800
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: you know.

801
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're from the same class. They're just people who

802
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 3: gravitated to make an art.

803
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and it's not bad when other people show

804
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 2: up to help, but like working class solidarity fucking rules.

805
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 2: So one time, one of while they're on a picket

806
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 2: because they say on instead of in whatever it's in

807
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: the snow And Tumbawamba does not take credit for this action.

808
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 2: They describe it in detail in their book. But there

809
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 2: are several things that happened that are illegal that Tumbawamba

810
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 2: simply describes as things that happened that they were around.

811
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: And one of them is that there's a one of

812
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 2: those you know, those concrete posts to keep cars from

813
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 2: running off the road, and they build a snowman over

814
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: it and they put a picket hat on it, and

815
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 2: the cops get really mad about this snowman, so they

816
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 2: drive it over, they try to drive it over and

817
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 2: smash up their own cop car. And I feel like

818
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 2: that's a good way to have a weird picket, is

819
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 2: to watch cops smash up their own cars. Yeah, Like,

820
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 2: and they have all of these What a weird coincidence?

821
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 2: We are randomly at dozens of made riots and numerous

822
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 2: countries that just happen to coincide with our tour, and

823
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 2: I don't know what the statute of limitations is for

824
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 2: rioting across Europe in the eighties, nineties, and two thousands,

825
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 2: So I'm going to go with coincidence. It was just

826
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 2: a weird coincidence.

827
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 3: It was just a coincidence.

828
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, the miner's loss despite the pluckiness of the pickets

829
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty five, And it's this whole big deal

830
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 2: that I haven't fully wrapped my head around, right. I'm

831
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: not a huge nineteen eighties labor history England person yet,

832
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 2: although through this podcast I will eventually get to all

833
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 2: of it. It really changes things in England. Industry closes,

834
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: scabs and cops pretty much need to move out of

835
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 2: the towns they're living in because everyone fucking hates them,

836
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 2: and so just think it divides these communities. But for Shumbawamba,

837
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 2: this was a big political awakening. They've been politically involved

838
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: this whole time. But what they realize is that by

839
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 2: being in solidarity with people who weren't like, culturally aligned

840
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 2: with them, they realized how basically naval gazing, an insular

841
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 2: and obsessively diy punk was not all the punk but

842
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: aspects of it, and had all these weird and specific rules.

843
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 2: From their point of view, all these like cultural rules.

844
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,479
Speaker 2: This is going to be totally unfamiliar to anyone who's

845
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 2: involved with leptism today. There's no way that we would

846
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 2: ever police our own over increasingly complicated systems of rules.

847
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 3: Yeah unthinkable.

848
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wouldn't make any sense. It actually would. And

849
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 2: so Bof at least is reminded of his Mormon upbringing,

850
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: or points out that he's reminded of this. And so

851
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 2: they released their first DP called Revolution, and it basically

852
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 2: is making fun of that kind of elitism. They're not

853
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: mocking the idea of revolution, they're mocking the weird rules

854
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 2: that everyone has. Basically, they're like, we gotta be fucking

855
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 2: better because we're not trying to have a scene, we're

856
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:53,399
Speaker 2: trying to fucking different society. And and they're really politically savvy, right,

857
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 2: Like I had kind of when I found out that

858
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 2: Chumbawamba was like into radical politics, I'd kind of been like, oh,

859
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 2: that's cool, but I hadn't realized quite that the they

860
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 2: were like in it, like it was there as much

861
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 2: a part of what they did. Alice Nutter in the

862
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 2: late nineties, I think in the tub thumping era told

863
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 2: a fanzine about single issue politics. Single issues half the time,

864
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 2: This is me quoting Alice Nutter. Single issues half the

865
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: time end up being welfare groups for social misfits, all

866
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 2: the sad bastards that don't have a life to join

867
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 2: single issues. I refuse to be guilt tripped saying that

868
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 2: any one thing is the most important. The problem is

869
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: we don't have an overview of what's happened to us politically.

870
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 2: It's really hard to step back and look over the

871
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 2: last fifteen years. Capitalism has come on in leaps and bounds.

872
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 2: Why ain't we Instead people go, well, I've done this,

873
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 2: and I've done that. We've been really stupid. We've not

874
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 2: responded to what capitalism's done. Instead, we've been too busy

875
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 2: policing each other. I've changed the way OH about things.

876
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah right, I've changed the way I go about things

877
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 2: because I've had to, because I want to live in

878
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 2: the real world. That's the quote.

879
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 3: Brilliant, yeah, and and incredibly relevant.

880
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: I know, twenty five years later from even then, and

881
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 2: it's like, I think about it because I got into

882
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 2: politics twenty years later than them, and I had to

883
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 2: have all these epiphanies all over again, you know totally.

884
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 2: Their EP Revolution is a hit, at least by their

885
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 2: standards at the time, it gets radio play. I think

886
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 2: it's their first radio play. It charts on the indie charts,

887
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:23,800
Speaker 2: and so they put out next to a full length

888
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 2: called Pictures of Starving Children Sell Records, which is basically

889
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 2: a whole album making fun of live aid a charity

890
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: concert happening at the time that costs millions of dollars

891
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 2: to stage. And because they're weird, annoying art punks, they

892
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: pressure one of their own bandmates, I think Dan, to

893
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,839
Speaker 2: make himself puke so that they could record the sound

894
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 2: for the end of the record. And I watched at

895
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 2: one point an interview with the sound producer and it

896
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 2: was like the first time he met them, and he's like,

897
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 2: I met this band and the first thing they made

898
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 2: me do is like record one of them throwing up.

899
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 3: This is great, I'm doing amazing.

900
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 2: I've made good decisions in my life, thought the sound producer.

901
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 2: And to fuck with the sort of standards that they

902
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 2: feel like they're being held to, they would do shit

903
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: like release an album of like punk pop and then

904
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 2: followed up with an a cappella album. They would they

905
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 2: opened for Motorhead by singing a cappella. They started in

906
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 2: speaking of opening for someone and getting their middle fingers

907
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 2: thrown at you.

908
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah, just go.

909
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 2: And sing seventeenth century workers songs to people who are

910
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 2: at a festival in Europe to see Motorhead. Uh. And

911
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 2: they start incorporating dance music and house music into their music,

912
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: and it's not a cynical thing. They just like going

913
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: to raves and doing ecstasy, so they're like, fuck it,

914
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 2: let's do rave music. And they also wrote an album

915
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 2: about how much they love sports because they're working class

916
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 2: British kids at the end of the day.

917
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 3: Uh. And that reminds me of you. Are you familiar

918
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 3: with Viagra Boys?

919
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 2: I am not. Please tell me about Viagra Boys? Actually no, yeah,

920
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 2: go ahead, okay, yeah.

921
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 3: Fantastic, fantastic punk that I discovered via Sleaford Mods, who

922
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: definitely have some crass influence in their sound. But they

923
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 3: have a song Biagera Boys has a song called Sports

924
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 3: and you just gotta look up the video and watch

925
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 3: it for yourselves. It's it's fantastic. Okay.

926
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love the tension around things like sports in

927
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 2: the subculture because you have all these people being like, no,

928
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 2: we're too cool for everything that's cool, and then other

929
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 2: people are like, yeah, but it's really fun. Have you

930
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 2: all tried playing sports? It's really fun.

931
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

932
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 2: And so they tour constantly and this is the only

933
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,399
Speaker 2: way they can make any money because they're not selling

934
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 2: enough records to sustain themselves. And they also have this

935
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 2: permanent shoplifting competition because of course they do, which is

936
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: who can steal the most expensive and ridiculous ship before

937
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 2: their shows. One time they get banned from a venue

938
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 2: in Dublin because they throw packages of co into the audience,

939
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 2: which is condoms were barely legal in Ireland at the time.

940
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 2: You had to be eighteen. You could only buy them

941
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 2: at certain places. It didn't help that Alice Nutter was

942
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:11,439
Speaker 2: dressed up like a nun drinking out of a bottle

943
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:16,959
Speaker 2: of whiskey while she's breaking this law. And then Boff

944
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 2: Wayley gets into fell running, which I believe is best

945
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 2: I can tell his British for trail running, and how

946
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 2: it happens is well, first he goes and sees some

947
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 2: fell runners with his dad, and he sees one of

948
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 2: them with a pink mohawk and He's like, huh, and

949
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 2: I think the guy wins, but I'm not sure he

950
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 2: and Chumbawamba opens for Conflict, and Conflict is this punk

951
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 2: band that at the time they always carry baseball bats

952
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 2: to their shows because their show's always turned into riots.

953
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 2: So the show turns into a riot and the cops

954
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 2: come to arrest everybody, and the punks start fighting back,

955
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 2: and Boff meets this punk in the crowd who was

956
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 2: the champion fell runner he had seen, and he watches

957
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 2: this fell runner out run six cops. Six cops take

958
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 2: off chut chasing him, and the runner takes off, and

959
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 2: basically Boff is like, I think I'm going to get

960
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 2: into fell running. That sounds cool. And most of the

961
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: books he writes now are about how awesome a fell

962
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 2: running is. And they keep being activists as they start

963
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,280
Speaker 2: touring constantly and stuff. Their house gets raided by cops

964
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 2: three times. The first two times cops are basically like,

965
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 2: we've seen those people, there's probably drugs there, and so

966
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 2: the cops raid and there weren't any drugs at the

967
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,399
Speaker 2: times of the raid, or maybe they didn't keep drugs

968
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,720
Speaker 2: at home because they were responsible people who had children

969
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 2: in the house that actually act. I don't know the answer,

970
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 2: but that's my actual guest based on everything I've heard

971
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 2: about these people. And then the third time, the cops

972
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 2: battering rammed down the door to search the place for

973
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,720
Speaker 2: explosives because someone presumably tied to the anti apartheid movement

974
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 2: which all the punks were part of, had set off

975
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 2: a bomb somewhere that didn't hurt anybody. And they're like, oh, well,

976
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 2: we know where some you know punks are, so let's

977
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 2: go kick down their door. They get arrested, they get

978
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,720
Speaker 2: kept in cells for twenty four hours, they get strip searched,

979
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 2: the whole houses trashed, all their literatures taken. And so

980
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 2: what they did once they got out is they took

981
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 2: the name of the cop who had interrogated them, and

982
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 2: they put it on their electric bill until they figured

983
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 2: out how to make their electric bill run backwards, and

984
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 2: then they just stopped paying for electricity. They get pulled

985
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:21,320
Speaker 2: over and strip searched by cops who were looking for

986
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 2: drugs all the time at borders. One time they get

987
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 2: pulled over on tour and strip searched, and they don't

988
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 2: like that. There's hundreds of copies of anarchist magazines in

989
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 2: their van, so they get turned away from countries fairly

990
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 2: often and they have to change their tours around as

991
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 2: a result of all this. And one thing that they

992
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,439
Speaker 2: tried to do one punk classic they tried and fail.

993
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 2: That actually is they tried to siphon gas for their tour,

994
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 2: but they got caught really quickly and they were like,

995
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 2: this is not worth it. It is not worth it

996
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 2: for us to safeon gas. We should just pay for

997
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 2: our gas. They get arrested a lot. To quote Boff again,

998
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: for a few years in the eighties, Dan and Alice

999
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 2: were king and Queen of getting arrested. It didn't matter

1000
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 2: if they'd been somewhere else at the time. If there

1001
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 2: was trouble, they'd get arrested. It became a liability to

1002
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 2: stand near them on demonstrations. One minute, you're watching Jill

1003
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 2: Scott Heron in a sun soaked hide park with two

1004
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 2: hundred thousand other nuclear disarmament campaigners. The next thing, you're

1005
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 2: trying to pull Alice out of the back of a

1006
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 2: police van surrounded by baton wielding cops. And if one

1007
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 2: got arrested, the other would get jealous and fling themselves

1008
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 2: into the arms of eager policemen, and later Alice was like,

1009
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 2: you know, eventually we figured out that the point of

1010
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 2: protest wasn't to get arrested, and that not getting caught

1011
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 2: has its own merits. Which if I were to add

1012
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 2: an additional sponsor to this show, Sophie, could you reach

1013
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 2: out to not getting caught and an advocation, I mean,

1014
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 2: I would give up potatoes for that. I think, Okay, okay, yeah,

1015
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: not getting caught has its own merits. So and in

1016
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six, Alice has her leg broken by Dutch

1017
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 2: cops at an anti NATO rally and still managed to

1018
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 2: stay on for the rest of the tour. But that's

1019
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 2: where we're going to leave it for today. They're in

1020
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: their pre celebrity heyday. They're running around getting into trouble

1021
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 2: every chance they get, including getting into trouble with the

1022
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 2: punk scene. And when we come back, they're going to

1023
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 2: get into way more trouble with the mainstream world and

1024
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:22,320
Speaker 2: the punk scene both. But Max, first, let's hear about

1025
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 2: the trouble that you're getting in or the stuff that

1026
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:26,399
Speaker 2: you're up to that people can check out.

1027
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 3: Oh excellent. Well, Eve six has a new album coming out,

1028
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 3: our first full length record in like ten years. I

1029
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 3: forget the date of that, but I think it's sometime

1030
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 3: next month. We just put out the first single from it.

1031
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 3: It's called Mister Darkseide, and you know it's in all

1032
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:51,879
Speaker 3: the likely places. You can find us on Twitter at

1033
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 3: eve six and I post a lot, probably too much

1034
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 3: on there.

1035
00:53:59,000 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 2: It works.

1036
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 3: And I also recently started doing an advice column for

1037
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 3: Input magazine and I'm really enjoying doing that, and yeah,

1038
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 3: that comes out twice a month, so yeah, if you

1039
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 3: follow me on Twitter you'll see that too. But that's

1040
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:18,399
Speaker 3: sort of what we got going on.

1041
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 2: Okay, and Sophie with trouble, have you been what legally

1042
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 2: actionable trouble? Have you been getting it?

1043
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 1: Oh? Just go to cool zonemdi dot com all the things.

1044
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: And Margaret, you have a book coming out, don't you.

1045
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,359
Speaker 2: I do. It's available for pre order now. It's called

1046
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: We Won't Be Here Tomorrow. It's available from Akpress, and

1047
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 2: if you pre order it you get an art print

1048
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 2: of like teens riding around on bikes past graffiti that

1049
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 2: says the Devil Lives here, and all the fun little

1050
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 2: short science fiction and fantasy stories that your heart could

1051
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 2: possibly desire awesome, We'll see you on Wednesday.

1052
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 3: Cool People Who What Did?

1053
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media. For

1054
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonmedia

1055
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1056
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.