1 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: You place your left hand on the bay of Bible 2 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: and raise your right hand and repeat after me. I 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: do solemnly swear the jury trying it attended, not scared. 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: The protest continued that weekend in Ferguson and around the country. 5 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: Resistant makes no sense. If it doesn't fit, you must equit. Judge. 6 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: You are the last line of reason in this case. 7 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: Every one of us took it all the office, and 8 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,959 Speaker 1: we're sworn to uphold the Constitution. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, 9 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 1: this is Sworn. I'm your host, Philip Holloway. Every lead 10 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: that has been followed in, every person who's come forward, 11 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: and every little bit of evidence leads one place, then 12 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: that's actually called m M hi. I'm your host, Philip Holloway. 13 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: On this episode of Sworn, we continued delving into the 14 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: Tiffany within disappearance. We've seen the walmart In first, and 15 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: we've gone through the timeline as best as we know 16 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: it to be. We now have a better idea of 17 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: who Tiffany is. Now it's time to talk about what 18 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: is being done a little over four years later to 19 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: keep this case actually alive. This is Sworn. I'm Jesse Evans, 20 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: I'm chief Assistant District Attorney with the Cobb d A's office. 21 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: My I have the opportunity to sit down with both 22 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Jesse Evans and to Afy's mother, Lisa Daniels, and 23 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: we were able to discuss this case as a group. 24 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: Is everybody basically working off the presumption that this is 25 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: a homicide at this point. At this point, there's no 26 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: other reasonable explanation for what could have happened to Tiffany, 27 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: So we are treating it as an active homicide investigation, 28 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: looking at all the circumstances surrounding her disappearance, in the 29 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: complete lack of contact that anyone has had with her 30 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: since her disappearance in September of two thousand and fourteen. 31 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: I don't think there's any way for us to look 32 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: at this objectively and see that it needs to be 33 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: treated in any other way. Is there any specific set 34 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: of criteria that you used to decide when the treat 35 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: a missing person's case is a homicide or is it 36 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: sort of a totality of the circumstances. I think it's 37 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: really got to be a totality of the circumstances. Um 38 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: you know, every case is a little bit different, and 39 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: while open to the possibility that certain people might in 40 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: some instances want to make themselves scarce, they mightn't want 41 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: to go live a different lifestyle, there are certainly circumstances 42 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: you can look at that show that, well, that person 43 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: is still around, that person's still able to be found 44 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: if somebody wanted to find them, and this is not 45 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: one of those cases. There have been similar cases I've 46 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: worked on where you just look at all the facts 47 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: and circumstances and you realize something is wrong here, something 48 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: is different than your normal situation, where perhaps a person 49 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: is involved in this drug culture and immerse themselves in 50 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: such a way that they don't want to be found 51 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: by a loved one. This is simply not the case 52 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: with Tiffany Winton. There's always challenges when you're dealing with 53 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: cold cases in general. There are added challenges when there's 54 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: been a delay in US being able to get involved 55 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: in the investigation, and I think that's one of the 56 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: biggest challenges that we started off with. You know, I 57 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: personally get involved in these major crimes investigations very early on, 58 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: and early on for us was not until after January 59 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: of two thousand and fourteen unfortunately, and by that time, 60 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: there have been some months that had passed before she 61 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: had disappeared, and that creates a lot of issues for us, 62 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: a lot of legal and factual issues for cold case 63 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: investigators and prosecutors such as myself to go back and 64 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: try to piece together and a quick timeline of of 65 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: what could have happened. We have a unique circumstance here 66 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: where we actually have video footage of the last time 67 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: that Tiffany Witten was known to be alive, and that 68 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: creates a good starting point for where we need to 69 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: go from there to figure out what were the last 70 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: moments like, what were the last hours like with her 71 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: before she essentially disappeared from the face of the earth, 72 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: And people don't just disappear from the face of the earth. 73 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: What additional challenges can arise due to a delay in reporting? Sure, 74 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: I think probably a lot of your listeners and a 75 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: lot of the general public are familiar with the show 76 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: the First forty eight And there's a lot to be 77 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: said about the first forty eight reality based TV show 78 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: where they talk about the importance of the first forty 79 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: eight hours of an investigation, and and I would agree 80 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: with the premise that early on in the investigation. That's 81 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: when you're right to get clues that could assist with 82 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 1: a criminal investigation. We had a compounding problem with the 83 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: beginning of this investigation in that um she she had 84 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: already sort of been living in this this culture where 85 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: she didn't have very much contact with family members and 86 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: loved ones. Add to it that she was admittedly involved 87 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: in the crime shoplifting caught on video at a Walmart 88 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: locally and probably had some concerns about that. Then you 89 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: add to it that there's a delay in reporting, and 90 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: then once it is reported. I don't fault my investigators 91 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: for this, but there's a kind of a skepticism that 92 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: sometimes law enforcement as when they first look at these 93 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: cases and see, well, here's a person that's got a 94 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: criminal history and admittedly has been involved in the drug 95 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: scene for some period of time. Here is this merely 96 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: a missing person's case or something more sinister going on. 97 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: So it wasn't until we really started appealing the layers 98 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: of the young that we started to realize, Hey, something 99 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: happened in September of two thousand and thirteen, and all 100 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,679 Speaker 1: the red flags are there. What do we know about 101 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: the last known moments of her life on video. We 102 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: saw her with her then boyfriend, individual named Ashley Caudle. 103 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: They were at a local Walmart city of Marietta about 104 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: two o'clock in the morning. By just a lay persons observations, 105 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: it was clear that she was probably on drugs at 106 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: the time and he probably was too. She's there for 107 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: some period of time, going through clothing gracks and things 108 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: like that, and eventually gets to the checkout location. It's 109 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: one of those areas where you can check out on 110 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: your own, you don't need a customer service representative to 111 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: help you. And this entire time not known to her, 112 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: but there were lost prevention officers that were watching her 113 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: in the store. That would be easy to do considering 114 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: how early morning hour than this was. There weren't rent 115 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: many people in the store anyway. So what happened is 116 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: she attempted to steal something, something minor. It was. I 117 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: think it's probably worth fourteen eighteen dollars from what Loss 118 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: Prevention has told me. And as she passed the point 119 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: of sale and was about to leave the store, she 120 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: was approached by two loss prevention officers who attempting to 121 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: detain her. They did so as is their practice and 122 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: custom by grabbing an item of hers knowing that she 123 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't want to leave it, that being a purse, 124 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: you could see that she literally left out of a 125 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: sandal and left out of her purse and ran out 126 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: into the darkness through the doors of the Walmart and 127 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: out into the parking lot. Her boyfriend remained for just 128 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: a brief moment at the doorway, then he turned and 129 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: walked out into the darkness as well. And that's the 130 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: last firm independent documentation of her life, this event that 131 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: just happened to have been caught on Walmart surveillance video 132 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: because of the fact that she was admittedly committing this 133 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,559 Speaker 1: misdemean or crime of shoplifting at two o'clock in the morning, 134 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: and are there videos in the parking lot? You know, 135 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: we attempted to get videos in the parking lot and 136 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: we were not successful in getting them understand this too. 137 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: It was my understanding loss prevention called law enforcement. They 138 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: did cursory check into this. I don't even know that 139 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: a full police report was made, but nobody really realized 140 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: what the gravity of the situation was. So it was 141 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: some months afterwards before we even got involved that we 142 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: even wanted to go back and look at any of 143 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: the video. Unfortunately for us, the inside video was retained 144 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: because they had kept this as a shoplifting investigation. But 145 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: we're not successful in getting any exterior video because nobody 146 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: realized what the significance of that might be for lost prevention. 147 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: Just like regular law enforcement, you want to keep the 148 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: evidence that as most probative, and obviously any evidence catching 149 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: somebody on video committing a shoplifting committing a crime, that's 150 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: going to be important for them, and they're gonna automatically 151 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: retain that. But most stores do not to retain all 152 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: video that they have for their store for an indefinite 153 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: period of time. It's kept for a finite period of time, 154 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: takes up a lot of space in their databases. Oftentimes 155 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: it's on a loop, it actually starts recording over itself. 156 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: So we attempted to get video from the exterior of 157 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: the Walmart, and we just weren't successful. Of course, there 158 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: was this pretty significant delay before we realized that that 159 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: might be of importance to us. But for the fact 160 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: that there was a shoplifting involved, we might not have 161 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: even been able to catch these moments um inside the store. 162 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: They were retained for any future criminal prosecution if it 163 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: ever developed. She's an adult, you know, she's not a child. 164 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: I kind of was of the same mind as law 165 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: enforcement in the beginning that she was shoplifting. We found 166 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: that out, so we knew that she had gotten caught 167 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: shoplifting at Walmart. So she's on for all. So what's 168 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: my first instinct. She's laying low. She knows she's gonna 169 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: be in trouble. So there was really no reason for 170 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: us to be alarmed initially. But that said, I mean, 171 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: I would encourage anybody now, knowing what I know now, 172 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: that if they have an adult child in this situation, 173 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: drug life, whatever the case may be, and you haven't 174 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: heard from them, and you can't put eyes on them 175 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: or hear their voice. I don't care about text messages, 176 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: hear their voice, or put eyes on them, you should 177 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: report the missing. If I had it to go back 178 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: and do over again, I would change the way I 179 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: did it. However, I don't think law enforcement would have 180 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: been inclined to investigate at that point either. The first 181 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: flag that went up was when my parents received a 182 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 1: letter that was from Walmart's attorneys. This is the standard 183 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: procedure for Walmart. If you get caught shop lift thing, 184 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: you'll get a letter from their attorneys saying, pay us 185 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: some money and we won't follow any civil charges. That 186 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: makes it look like they'll drop the charges, but they're 187 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: just promising not to follow a civil suit if you 188 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: pay them restitution. So two of those letters came to 189 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: my parents home because that was the address that was 190 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: listed on her driver's license, which they had because they 191 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: had her purse. Okay, so they knew who she was. 192 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: That's one reason why they didn't really go after her 193 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: was because they had her purse. They knew who she was. 194 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: So I want to follow up with that real quick. 195 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: Why would they be seeking restitution when she didn't get 196 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: away from the store with any property. I don't know. 197 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: That's a good question, maybe one you should ask them. 198 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. Do you know, either of you why 199 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: Walmart didn't call nine one one or call the police 200 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: to report. I think that they did call the police. 201 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: I believe Mary had a police were dispatched, but they 202 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: didn't do They're not going to do an all outsearch 203 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: for a petty shoplifter. I mean, they're just not going 204 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: to do that, especially when they've got other things going on, 205 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: and nobody got away with any property exactly, and they 206 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: had her purse. They knew who she was. I don't 207 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: know the intent to prosecute. I really don't know where 208 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: it was going to go from there. What happened to 209 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: Ashley Caudle that evening that morning? Looking at the video, 210 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: we know that he went out into the parking lot, 211 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: and we know that he interacted with some people that 212 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: he knew that we're around that area. This is not 213 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: an area that was unfamiliar to him and unfamiliar to 214 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: the Tiffany. They both spent some periods of time around 215 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: this area before, as well as in the Powder Springs area, 216 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: So we know that he had some interactions with some 217 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: individuals into the morning hours who saw him there. We 218 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: have not found anyone that saw her there at that 219 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: area after she left the walmart. Well, that walmart is 220 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: just a mile or so away from here, and it's 221 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: not exactly out of the way location. It's a lot 222 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: of people of I guess from all walks of life, 223 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: would go there, but maybe just not at two o'clock 224 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: in the more. It's a pretty busy area around the walmart. 225 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 1: There's a lot of restaurants, a lot of extended stay motels, 226 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: and we do have in terms of drug arrest it's 227 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: an area where we make on a significant amount of 228 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: arrests for drug possession and drug use, particularly the extended 229 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: state motels. So it is a populated area, but there 230 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 1: are little pockets as well, just off the more populated 231 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: areas where you can find some quiet space. So there's 232 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: a lot of I was driving by there of the 233 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 1: other day and I just happened to notice because I 234 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: wanted to look, but I noticed that there's a lot 235 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: of businesses that likely have some type of exterior surveillance cameras, banks, 236 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: you've got a t m S in the area. Have 237 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: all those things been checked In an ideal situation, had 238 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: we known on September thirteenth or September fourteenth of two 239 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: thousand and thirteen that this was going to turn into 240 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: what it was, we would have hit all those locations 241 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: for any potential surveillance. But going back to one of 242 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: the issues we had discussed previously about retention and business 243 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: retention of surveillance, we've not been successful and being able 244 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: to get any usable surveillance video with the delay in 245 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: time from when this investigation change, which really wasn't until 246 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: around January of two thousand and fourteen. It's been my 247 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: experience that businesses just don't keep surveillance material unless they 248 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: need to for more than about a month. That's correct. 249 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: It's been my experience too. You know. I almost wish 250 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: in many instances we could go back to some of 251 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: our businesses and ask them to use, first of all, 252 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: more modern systems. Secondly, asked them to have a longer 253 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: retention policy. But it's just not feasible for some of 254 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: these businesses to be able to do that, and it 255 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: does complicate things. I think the general public watches TV 256 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: and they they imagine that because there's a camera on 257 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: every corner um that somehow magically we're able to tap 258 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: into a master database and be able to download that 259 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: footage at will. And it's just simply not the case 260 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: in the reality of law enforcement. Unless you happen to 261 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: have a business entity that's interested in retaining something for 262 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: some particular reason, such as it containing evidence of a shoplifting, 263 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: then it's more likely than not with time, the passage 264 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: of time, you're not gonna be able to get the surveillance. 265 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: And that's what we have here? Why was it that 266 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: nobody was able to paying her cell phone to triangulate 267 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: her location because she didn't have it with her. I 268 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: read something in another media report, and I forget which 269 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: one it was. I read that at some point in time, someone, 270 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistake, it was in your family, felt 271 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: that she had reached out to them over social media 272 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,119 Speaker 1: or was it by text? There actually was a Facebook 273 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: message sent to her half brother on his birthday, but 274 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: when he messaged back to say, you know, hey, what's up? 275 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: Where are you? There was never any response. Someone from 276 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: her Facebook account sent a message to her half brother 277 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: saying happy birthday. The key is we don't know for 278 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: sure who actually sent that because she did not have 279 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: her phone. Let me ask you this, would anybody who 280 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: had her phone been able to access her Facebook account? Yes? 281 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: I did access her Facebook account, and when I opened 282 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: it there were hundreds of unread messages, notifications, friend requests, hundreds, 283 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: so I knew that she had not accessed her Facebook. 284 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: The issue is then that someone that probably wasn't her, 285 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: and it wasn't you, accessed her Facebook account and send 286 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: a message after she was reported missing, but nothing before 287 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: she was reported missing. We've had a number of leads, 288 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: I'll go as far to say false leads that have 289 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: come up over the years, and we look into everything. 290 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: One of them, we attempted to look into that lead 291 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: pretty good and we just don't have any reason to 292 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: believe that that was a message from Tiffany to her 293 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: half brother. There's no evidence to support that, um and 294 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: not not to call anyone out, but there's been a 295 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: lack of cooperation on the part of maybe some of 296 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: her family members as well, who are more on the 297 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: fringes to help us and involve investigating looking some of 298 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: those leads as well, which is even more evidence that 299 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: they're they're probably false leads. You know, she left Walmart 300 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: when she ran out those doors, she had no idea, 301 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: no phone, no shoes. What do we know about the 302 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: last a twelve hours before she went missing? Just to summarize, 303 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: he talked about it being a fairly normal period of 304 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: time with himself and Tiffany prior to the Walmart incident. 305 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: He gave us a bit of a timeline of different 306 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: places he had been a house, a friend's house, using 307 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: the friends pickup truck. Talked about the events in the Walmart, 308 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: a lot of which, like I said, we're captured on videos, 309 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: so some of it we could we could look at 310 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: pretty quickly and be able to compare to his statement UM. 311 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: And then his assertion about what happened afterwards was that 312 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: she ran out of the walmart and he just never 313 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: saw her again. That he claimed he attempted to find her, 314 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: claimed that he searched the area. He admitted to some 315 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: of the people that he had talked to UM, many 316 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: of whom we've now spoken with and UM. His his 317 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: assertion is that he tried his best to find her 318 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: to and wasn't able to do so. Did he say 319 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: what he did, like, did he say that I went 320 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: to the ihup or I went to this place or 321 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: that place? Was he specific or was he general? He 322 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: was UM, both general and specific. Generally, he said I 323 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: looked for UM. When pressed on the specifics, he admit 324 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: that he went to um uh an I Hoop, which 325 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: is at that location. He happened to know somebody there 326 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: who ran into him at at the location. UM, so 327 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: we were able to talk to her and confirm that UM. 328 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 1: His claim was that he called for a friend and 329 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: that he wrote around with a friend for a while 330 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: looking for her and UM, so there were a mix 331 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: of of some specifics and some generalities about what had occurred. 332 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: But ultimately what he said basically was that despite his 333 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: attempts to find her, UH, he wasn't able to get 334 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: in touch with her. What were you able to do 335 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: with regard to her phone records that may have added 336 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: anything to what you know? We've gone through phone records extensively, 337 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 1: and from a modern law enforcement perspective, that's almost always 338 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: a good starting place is looking at phone records, UH, 339 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: cell tower analysis, those types of things. And we did 340 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: that not only with her phone, UM, we did that 341 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: with a number of other target cell phones as well, 342 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: and UM there wasn't a whole lot of activity that 343 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: was beneficial to us. I think people have this misconception 344 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: that as long as you're carrying your phone, there's gonna 345 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: be activity on it. That sometimes the case and sometimes 346 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: not kind of depends on whether you have apps open, 347 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: whether there are things run in the background, whether you're 348 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: actively texting somebody or making phone calls. But when there's 349 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: limited activity, there's going to be limited information that you're 350 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: able to get back from the cell companies as well. 351 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: But part of my responsibility is the head of the 352 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: cold case unit, is to make sure that my guys, 353 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,479 Speaker 1: my investigators are looking at all that cell phone evidence. 354 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: And over the years we have repeatedly looked at, analyzed, 355 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: and reanalyzed the cell phone evidence. Um so far it 356 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 1: has not yielded, uh anything that's a smoking gun, so 357 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: to speak. As to explaining the mystery of how she disappeared, 358 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: it's my understanding that she may have had some issues 359 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 1: with paying her her cell phone bill, so most of 360 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: her contact with the outer world was actually by by 361 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: Facebook messaging at least until September thirteenth of two thousand thirteen, 362 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: and then the Facebook messaging essentially stopped. Do you know 363 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: about how old Tiffany was when she started on the 364 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: path that led her to that walmart In, I really 365 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: couldn't say. I mean, she had issues honestly from middle 366 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: school um behavioral issues and hanging with the wrong people. 367 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: There were no instances of drinking, drugs anything like that 368 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: when she was younger. It wasn't really until she was 369 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 1: away from home and still kind of hanging around people 370 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: she shouldn't have been hanging around. And I think by 371 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: the time I realized that I really knew that she 372 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: was into drugs. She was really into drugs by that point, 373 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: so she she had done a pretty good job for 374 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: quite a while of hiding it pretty well. Um. The 375 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: one time that I suspected there was something going on, um, 376 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: you know, I had her daughter and I had told her, 377 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: you need to come and take her to the doctor. 378 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: It's time for her check up. I have to work. 379 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: You need to come and take her. She's your child, 380 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: Come take her to the doctor. Oh yeah, no problem, 381 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: no problem. So she comes down the night before, spends 382 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: the night, and I find out when I get home 383 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: the next day that she had slept the entire day 384 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: and almost completely missed the appointment. I found this out 385 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: from my young daughter, who basically had to watch her 386 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: little niece all day while Tiffany slept. And I knew. 387 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: I knew then that there was that wasn't right. How 388 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: old was her daughter when she disappeared, Um, she was six. 389 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: Did she still have any interaction with her daughter? Not really? Um, 390 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: because of the drug situation. You know, it was just 391 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: such a tough call. We didn't really know what to 392 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: do in that situation. You know, she's using drugs, she's unstable, 393 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: she's in and out. We don't know when she's gonna 394 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: be here when she's not, and this is a little 395 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: child who doesn't understand. So it was you know, that 396 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,479 Speaker 1: was a tough call to keep her away, but we 397 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 1: did keep her away. But the goal was at some 398 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: point to have them, you know, interact until hopefully, at 399 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: some point Tiffany got clean and could parent her. That 400 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: was the ultimate goal. This will never be a case 401 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: that's gonna simply gather dust. We're always working on this one. 402 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: Sometimes we have cases that are very uh, forensic driven. Um, 403 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 1: it's a DNA type case, it's a ballistics type case. Uh. 404 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: Sometimes you have cases that are are very different from 405 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: that that our statements driven. Where really the key to 406 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: the understanding the case and getting answered this is going 407 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 1: to be people and and and people talking with us. 408 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 1: And UM, I think the number one thing that we 409 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: continue to do is to interview and re interview people, 410 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: and we've been doing that for literally years right now, 411 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: and UM, part of the reason, quite frankly, that I'm 412 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: sitting down with you right now feels because UM, I 413 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: feel like there is more out there to this case 414 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: that the public knows. And some segments of the public 415 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 1: that are just not comfortable coming forward right now for 416 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 1: whatever reason. Maybe it's fear, maybe maybe it's some other motivation. 417 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: But I've always believed that the more publicity we can 418 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: get for the case, and the more we can put 419 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: our cold cases, the units availability to talk out there, 420 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: that more information is going to come in. And that's 421 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: exactly what's happened over the years. This is gonna boil 422 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: down to people finally feeling comfortable with sharing information with 423 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 1: us that maybe they've held close to their chest for 424 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: for literally years. And I truly believe, in my heart 425 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: of hearts, I know that there are people out there 426 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: that no more information about this case. They may even 427 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: be people that we've already talked to before UM, but 428 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: I suspect there's probably some people out there that we 429 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: haven't talked to yet. And UM We're always listening. Every 430 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: every time we get a name, every time we get 431 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: a tip UM, we go out and we talk to 432 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: that person. A lot of the tips UM come quite 433 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: frankly because of Lisa and her tenacity, and she's been 434 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: very tenacious about keeping this information out there and keeping 435 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: her ears open, whether it's through Facebook, the fine Tiffany 436 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: witness page. Whatever that means maybe of communicating with us. 437 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: If people are going to share information with us, we're 438 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: gonna follow up on it. How often do you get 439 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: tips or new information that needs to be followed up with? 440 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: It comes fairly regularly, and this case is coming fairly regularly. 441 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: It would be unusual, certainly for a month to go 442 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: by where we didn't get a new tip, but it's 443 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: not uncommon for us to get multiple tips within a 444 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: week or two week period of time. UM. A lot 445 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: of it's coming from social media, a lot of it's 446 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: coming from Facebook, A lot of it's going directly to 447 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: Lisa and uh, Lisa's then forwarding onto to myself and 448 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: my cold case unit led by John Dawes. I believe 449 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: that there are people out there that know more than 450 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: they've shared with us, and um, they may not even 451 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: know that what what they hold is significant. They're involved 452 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: in drug use, they're involved in illegal activity. A lot 453 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: of these folks and UM there that doesn't make them 454 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: very particularly willing to pick up the phone and say, hey, police, 455 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: come talk to me. I know that a lot of people, 456 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: I think question, why would you spend so much time 457 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: trying to find somebody who clearly, you know, had her issues. 458 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 1: She had drug issues, she had a criminal past. But 459 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: you know that's not how I view her. You know, 460 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: she's still my child, my baby, and um she's you know, 461 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: she's a human being, and she is worthy of of 462 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: being found. And she has a little girl who needs 463 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: some answers. She has a family who need answers um 464 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: as to as to what happened to her. Anybody wouldn't 465 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: want that, you know, I would just say to to 466 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: anybody who might hear this, please, you know, just come forward. 467 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: I don't care how you do it. Write a letter, 468 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: make an anonymous call if you're afraid. I get that, 469 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: but it is the right thing to do, and right now, 470 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: we just need somebody to do the right thing. Um. 471 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 1: Just as a personal matter, if you walked in my 472 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: office right now, you would have to pass by no 473 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: less than four or five pictures of Tiffany Witten that 474 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 1: are hanging on my door. I see her every day 475 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,199 Speaker 1: then I walk into the office. I see her every 476 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: day when I turn off my light and head home. 477 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: The frustrating part about this case, though, is I really 478 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: believe it's going to be solved with statements. It's going 479 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: to be solved with somebody feeling comfortable to come forward, 480 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: maybe even someone we've already talked to feeling more comfortable 481 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: to share, um, the truth about what they know and um, 482 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: this is not a situation. Just look at it. At 483 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: it objectively. Where Tiffany was out camping and disappeared in 484 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 1: the woods. She rendered out of a crowded walmart into 485 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,719 Speaker 1: a crowded area of the city of Marietta and then disappeared. Jessie, 486 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: if if anybody has any information or feels like they 487 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: want to contact you, guys, what do they need to do. 488 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: We've set up a tipline for a cold case unit 489 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: and that number is seven seven zero five to eight 490 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: three zero three to. We just encourage anyone with the 491 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: general public who knows information about this case of contact 492 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: our cold case units so we can follow up on that. 493 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: That number again, seven seven zero five to eight three 494 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: zero three to. All I'm asking is for somebody to 495 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: to just do the right thing. Be that person who 496 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: gives a family closure and can answer a little girl's 497 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: question about his MO mommy dad, because that's what she asked, 498 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: is MO mommy dead? How do you answer that? To 499 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: a child when you don't know, I mean, we haven't had. 500 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: She's been to a funeral for her grandmother. She knows 501 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: her grandmother's dad, she knows her grand mother's in heaven, 502 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: both of them, so she knows that she doesn't know 503 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: where mommy is. And that's unfair. That is unfair. It's 504 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: absolutely heartbreaking. Talking to Tiffany's mother as a parent, I 505 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: simply cannot wrap my head around the grief that she 506 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: must have experienced and that she's still experiencing today. Now 507 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: Lisa Daniels is the legal guardian of Tiffany's own daughter. 508 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: I cannot even imagine what this must be like for 509 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: Lisa not to have the answers for her granddaughter when 510 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: she asked the question where is my mother? Hey, guys, 511 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: I want to tell you about Zola. This is the 512 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: wedding company that will do anything for love. 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To sign up with 530 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: Zola and receive fifty dollars towards your registry, go to 531 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: Zola dot com slash sworn. I've actually been to the 532 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: website and I really wish you been there when I 533 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: got married, So go to Zola dot com slash sworn 534 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: for your special offer. We've seen other missing persons cases 535 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: that might be simply gathering dust on a shelf. So 536 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: let's ask the question, is this case gathering dust? Has 537 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: enough been done to keep it alive? And fresh? Assistant 538 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: District Attorney Jesse Evans put his trust in John Dawes 539 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: at the Cold Case Unit to take this case over. 540 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: We sat down and spoke to John to get a 541 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: feel for what exactly is being done right now, as 542 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: well as to ask him what we might be able 543 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: to do to help our hope in all these unsolved 544 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: cases is that we can spur discussion and remind people 545 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: to come forward if they know anything at all. And 546 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: I promise you somebody somewhere does know something. And just 547 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: so the records clear. To answer my own question, I'm 548 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: satisfied that this is one case that is not simply 549 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: gathering dust. It is actually being worked, and it's being 550 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: worked actively. When did you start on Tiffany's case? About 551 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: a year and a half ago. Uh. We met with 552 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: Marietta Um the chief Assistant District Attorney. Jesse Evans has 553 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: kind of been alongside the case since UM January of 554 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: two thousand and fourteen. UH, and he's a liaison between 555 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: us and the police agencies here in Cobb County. So 556 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: UM between a year and a half and two years ago, 557 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: they kind of consulted with us and asked us to 558 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: take a look at everything. They provided us with a 559 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: complete copy of the file and we started digging into it. 560 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: Anytime there's a missing person, UM, foul play suspected, it 561 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,959 Speaker 1: brings on a whole new atmosphere to the case. If 562 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: you're working a murder case, you have a body, you 563 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: have a scene, you have physical evidence to work with, 564 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,719 Speaker 1: and you have light at the end of the tunnel 565 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: from the day it occurs on a missing person. UM. 566 00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: In a case like this, it's it's problematic because there 567 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: are so many people who UM want to shed light. UM. 568 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: There are so many people who want to provide information 569 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: to look like they're cooperating, Yet they they tend to 570 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: send the investigators off in different directions. UM. So liars 571 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: pretty much pretty much to be blunt, UM, are you 572 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: dealing with a lot of those in this case? We 573 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: deal with a lot of those in every case. UM. 574 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: Certainly there have been UM some um information that gets 575 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: at least to a second third, fourth party, and you 576 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: lose a little bit of the truth in every phase 577 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: of that type of system. But yes, there have been 578 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: some liars in this case. So that actually brings up 579 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: a good point if you lose a little bit in 580 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: like every phase I know this case has changed hands 581 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: three times or two times, it was it was it 582 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: Johnny Mueller first and then make Freer and then you yes, 583 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: So does that make things harder? Well, it would accept 584 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: that I have a close working relationship with Detective Molar 585 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: and Detective Freer. Um, so communicating with them as has 586 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: been pretty instrumental in the case. Um. You know a 587 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: lot of people think, okay, we get we get a 588 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: copy of the police reports, and everything is good, we 589 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: know everything. But um, you lose a lot if you 590 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: can't communicate with the lead detective in the case. UM. 591 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: Police reports, if they paid attention the academy are supposed 592 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: to be facts, not opinion, not thoughts, not considerations that 593 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: they have when they go home and sit down at 594 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: night and can't get it out of their minds. So 595 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: we want to pull from those lead detectives as frequently 596 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: as we can, for as much information as we can, 597 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: just to get their insight and their feelings about things. 598 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: Although they're by definition a cold case has set for 599 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: twelve months with with no movement, no UH, no active leads. 600 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: And this is different because there are so many people 601 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: who who are hands on and wanting to move it, 602 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: but it's as far as actual leads go, it's been 603 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: cold UH for over a year. So so how do 604 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: you approach a case like this, what's the first thing 605 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: that you did? The first thing we did is we 606 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: sorted through and it took weeks, but we sorted through 607 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: the boxes of UH binders and reports and files that 608 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: we were provided UM, and I assigned one of my 609 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: guys just to look at phone records, nothing else. I 610 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: assigned one person to to do some research into the 611 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: the one piece of evidence we have, the video from 612 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: Walmart UM, and then I had another person just kind 613 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: of forming it back into alongside me, forming it back 614 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: into an actual case file that's just a chronologically organized 615 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: report to make it easier to read UM. That took 616 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: weeks just to get it to their UM, and then 617 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: then we began sorting through it UM, reading through it, 618 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: trying to identify everyone who's involved. We live in a 619 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: very transient society. The same is true with with the 620 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 1: young people involved in this case. They're hard to locate sometimes. 621 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: So we started trying to make sure that we had 622 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: all the facts about where they were at, what they 623 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: were doing, where they worked, and all that kind of stuff, 624 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: what their associations are outside of this case, UM, to 625 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: see where we could get Tiffany is uh mom and 626 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: uh no doubt loves her little girl. Uh. The little 627 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: girl was with Grandma Lisa uh and in good care. 628 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:40,760 Speaker 1: But when when an adult uh can't be found, hasn't 629 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: been heard from or seen by their friends, UM, doesn't 630 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: have a work that they would normally be going to 631 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: day in and day out, you know, and and all 632 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: of a sudden they're just kind of gone. Um. If 633 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: they don't come back to check on their children, if 634 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: they don't send messages at least to check on their children, 635 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,720 Speaker 1: that concerns me as an an investigator about their well being. UM. 636 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 1: When they have a bank account and there's no attempt 637 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: to access the funds by the person who can't be found, 638 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: then that's assigned to me that that uh, that foul 639 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: play has occurred. So UM, I think that was noted 640 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: pretty early in the case. Is that is or a 641 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: window that you might think that whatever happened or is 642 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,280 Speaker 1: through a time period that that happened to narrow it down? 643 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 1: Is it that night? The next day. I'm gonna safely 644 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: say that within uh, within a few hours of the 645 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:43,399 Speaker 1: time that Tiffany left Walmart, everything occurred. I can tell 646 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: you that there are two people in my unit that 647 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: are working this case every day and UH and and 648 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: I'm involved in that as well, UH and I have 649 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: a lot of other obligations on all the other cases 650 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 1: that we're working, but but I have two people who 651 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,919 Speaker 1: are who are in and out of this case every 652 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: day trying to work on it, trying to come up 653 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: with ideas, trying to locate people, trying to to set 654 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: up UM situations where we can um do some some 655 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: justice for the case and and bring some real answers. UH. 656 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: It's a I'm a parent, UM, and I empathize with 657 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: Lisa in this case. I want nothing better uh for 658 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: her than some very real truth to come out. UM. 659 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: Healaling doesn't start until you begin to get truth. So 660 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: I want, I wanted to find truth for UM Lisa 661 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: Daniels and and get her the information that she that 662 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: she so desperately wants and needs. How often do you 663 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,919 Speaker 1: communicate with Lisa? With Lisa, it's about once a week, 664 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,919 Speaker 1: sometimes twice a week, that we text back and forth 665 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: a little bit or talk on the phone and UH 666 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: and she's UH. I made her a promise and that 667 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: is that by the time we get done, she'll know 668 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: more than she knew when we picked it up. So 669 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 1: Lisa is UM strong. She's a strong willed person. UM. 670 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: She UH is a great parent in that she um 671 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: knocks on the door and if you don't answerly enough, 672 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: she just kind of opens the door and comes on in. 673 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: If you try to close the door on her, she 674 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: puts her foot in it and pushes you out of 675 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: the way and get your attention. So UM, I can't 676 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: I can't ask for anything more from her than to 677 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: uh than to keep pushing for what she she justly deserves. 678 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: And that's some truth. There are people who could call 679 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: me today and provide me with the right information. I 680 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 1: have no doubt. We have no factual documentation that anyone 681 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: saw them together after the Walmart incident, but I believe 682 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: that someone does exist. Tell me who this guy is, 683 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: where he's at today. Ashley is Uh was at the 684 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: time Tiffany's boyfriend and Uh. Ashley is Uh in the 685 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: Department of corrections as we speak on unassociated charges. Um, 686 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: he's been interviewed multiple times. He's never uh just shut 687 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: down and said no, I won't talk to you. Um. 688 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: He's provided information uh two Detective Moler and uh and 689 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: he did the interview with Esquire magazine. UM. He's not 690 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: a person who has just completely um shut himself off 691 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 1: from the investigation. UM. A lot of people have issues 692 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,479 Speaker 1: with Ashley because, uh, he didn't file the report that 693 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:54,439 Speaker 1: she was missing that night. He didn't contact anyone and say, 694 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: you know that she ran and I don't know where 695 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,240 Speaker 1: she went. Um. And he even days in he didn't 696 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 1: contact anyone. He did make contacts with other people. He 697 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: made inquiries with other people, but it never went to 698 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 1: the police about her, about her you know, not being seen. 699 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: So uh he he's a person of interest, just as 700 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: many other people are in the case. Who um, who 701 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: have come about it's any anytime you have a boyfriend 702 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:29,719 Speaker 1: girlfriend relationship, UM, husband wife relationship, you you obviously look 703 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,919 Speaker 1: at that person first, uh and see if you draw 704 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: any conclusions that they would have more involvement. Yeah for them, 705 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: what I've learned, their relationship wasn't normal, happy, healthy relationship. 706 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: So I don't know. UM. I mean I think there 707 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: was violence in their relationships. So in the background research 708 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: done with by Detective Mueller and they married a police 709 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: department there there was some information that came forward about 710 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: some domestic disputes that had gone on in the past 711 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,359 Speaker 1: between them. UM, so that that'd be that's been looked 712 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,320 Speaker 1: at as well. Obviously. Can you tell me about the 713 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 1: barrel filled with concrete that was thrown off of Bethany 714 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 1: Bridge in Ackworth by Ashley and some of his associates. Uh, 715 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: there was a tip that came through, UM that sounds 716 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: familiar to that, and just there have been other tips 717 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: that have come through that that she was put here. 718 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,879 Speaker 1: She was put there, this is how she was dumped. UM, 719 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: And it happens in these types of cases. But there's 720 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: no There was a search conducted UM with D and 721 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,280 Speaker 1: R's assistance and married to police and and UM nothing 722 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 1: was recovered at that search. There are ways to do 723 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: things and ways not to do things. And I'm never 724 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 1: surprised anymore by by what people do in the measures 725 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 1: they take to get away with something. But UM, that 726 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: information was was brought to us through UH, through the 727 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: married police department, through a tip, and it was researched, 728 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,360 Speaker 1: it was checked out, and nothing resulted from do you 729 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 1: think there's any physical evidence? One of the reasons the 730 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: case has gone where it has, uh and as at 731 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: the stage that it's at today three and a half 732 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 1: years later, is because there was no crime scene full 733 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,800 Speaker 1: of physical evidence in the case. I think there is 734 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 1: physical evidence. I don't think it's been recovered yet, and 735 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,360 Speaker 1: I think that that once we've found that physical evidence, 736 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: then it's going to answer everything we need to know. 737 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,319 Speaker 1: When we're sitting in here as a group, UM, these 738 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaker 1: people who work alongside me on these cases, we share 739 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:49,439 Speaker 1: information because the the whole idea behind the cold Case 740 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: Unit forming was that that it would be wonderful to 741 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: have people dedicated to looking at these old cases, UM 742 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 1: with a different set of eyes. So we utilized that 743 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: strategy and we bounced things off of each other. We 744 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: make notes, UM, and there there are times when we're 745 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,399 Speaker 1: all in here together and uh, one of us has 746 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: a thought. We get up, jumped to the white board 747 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 1: and go to town right and a bunch of stuff 748 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: so everybody can see it. And I'm I'm one of 749 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: those people that if I hear something, I can think 750 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: of through and remember it for a few minutes. If 751 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: I hear it and see it, it lasts with me 752 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: a little bit longer. So so that's how we do 753 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 1: some of our formulated group studies of cases in here. 754 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 1: So it's her missing flyer, Tiffany Witten, and then just 755 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 1: underneath it it says Ashley Coddle, and to left of 756 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: that it's his questions for Coddle. The reason that we 757 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 1: have the two pictured up there, Tiffany and Ashley, is 758 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 1: because that's who was at the walmart, right of course 759 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 1: when when this, when this incident occurred and Tiffany ran 760 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 1: from security, and um, Ashley Coddle was there. He was 761 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,879 Speaker 1: with in the store for an hour leading up to this, 762 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 1: and then after she ran he stood there for a 763 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: moment and then he walked away. Um. So in our 764 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,719 Speaker 1: minds those two are together and he's the last one 765 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: with her. The notes on the dry race boards in 766 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 1: the cold Case unit mainly focus on Tiffany. Her case 767 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: takes up a board and a half. It's essentially broken 768 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: down into three sections, a timeline, a to do list, 769 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: and questions for Coddle. We see names on the to 770 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,879 Speaker 1: do list under a section marked interview slash reinterview. Names 771 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 1: like Stephen Weinstein, the friend that supposedly picked up Ashley 772 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: Coddle on that night, Sheila Fuller, the former roommate of Tiffany, 773 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 1: Jason Zuccarini, one of Tiffany's ex boyfriends, Cinnamon another friend. 774 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,239 Speaker 1: There are questions like who was living in Benedict's house 775 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: on September besides Caddle, and lots of notes that involved 776 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,400 Speaker 1: looking into phone records. According to Dawes, the majority of 777 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,759 Speaker 1: these people have been talked to at some point. It's 778 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 1: just a matter of going through and doing it again. 779 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 1: More than likely someone wasn't telling the truth. Hopefully that 780 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: truth will come sooner rather than later, because Lisa says 781 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,560 Speaker 1: that she is currently trusting law enforcement and the process. 782 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,960 Speaker 1: She won't hold back forever. You know a list of 783 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 1: people that if you could just write down a list 784 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 1: of names that the police would just grill for answers. 785 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:30,240 Speaker 1: Do you know who those people are? Names like friends, circles? 786 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: Do you know those people? You know? A couple? Do 787 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:39,200 Speaker 1: you tell me who they were? Okay, hmm, I just 788 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: don't want to do anything that would jeopardize their investigations, 789 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:51,600 Speaker 1: So I know that, Yeah, privately. Yeah. M hmm, Okay, well, 790 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: I really hope that they are able to trip somebody 791 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,840 Speaker 1: up or find what they're looking for. I think it 792 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,879 Speaker 1: will happen eventually. At you know, my big just worries, Yeah, 793 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 1: I do know who a couple of these people are. 794 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,800 Speaker 1: My biggest worries that they o d and die before 795 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 1: we getting information out of them that that honestly is is. 796 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,279 Speaker 1: I worry about that every day. I mean I I 797 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,919 Speaker 1: went on Facebook and I said, look, I'm gonna start 798 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 1: naming names. Somebody needs to do the right thing here. 799 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,279 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm just gonna start naming names. And then 800 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like, uh, law enforcement doesn't 801 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 1: really people like you to do that. I'm not gonna 802 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,319 Speaker 1: hold back forever. I will not hold back forever, but 803 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,719 Speaker 1: I feel like in this case, when it comes to 804 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: naming people, I do feel like I have to give 805 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: John the opportunity. You know, I know that there are 806 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,400 Speaker 1: a lot of moving parts involved, you know, different different 807 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,919 Speaker 1: departments and people involved. So it's not just a matter 808 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,719 Speaker 1: of him saying, Okay, I'm gonna go get this guy 809 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,360 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna grill this guy. Because they gotta have 810 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,959 Speaker 1: something to hold over them. They've gotta have something that says, 811 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 1: you know what, you are facing a lot of time 812 00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: in prison, and yeah, and we can help you, but 813 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 1: you got to come clean and just lean on him 814 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,759 Speaker 1: until they do otherwise. Then then you have to make 815 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,479 Speaker 1: it happen. You have to be able to make good 816 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,880 Speaker 1: on the and the on the threat that you're facing 817 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,319 Speaker 1: a lot of time in prison. So that takes time. 818 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,239 Speaker 1: That takes time to build, you know, to have all 819 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:23,839 Speaker 1: those moving parts working in unison and say, okay, we've 820 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,399 Speaker 1: got this guy dead to rights. There is no way 821 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 1: that we're gonna lose this case in court if we 822 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,720 Speaker 1: if we go to court, you know, if he doesn't 823 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,560 Speaker 1: come clean and we don't help him with a plea 824 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,520 Speaker 1: deal or whatever, then he is facing twenty years or 825 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,240 Speaker 1: he's facing fifteen years. He and he'll be in prison 826 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 1: for fifteen years. And but they've got to be able 827 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,920 Speaker 1: to make that stick. And I think these these guys 828 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: and girls in Cobb County that are running in this crowd, 829 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,560 Speaker 1: they know they know we'll be out in three months. 830 00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 1: I'll be out in a year. I can do that 831 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,239 Speaker 1: standing on my head, three hots and a car for 832 00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,240 Speaker 1: a year I'm good with that. I don't have to work. 833 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,160 Speaker 1: I'll have to you know, the only thing they're missing 834 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:16,200 Speaker 1: is their drugs. Right, We've gained a lot more knowledge 835 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 1: and insight into just why this case is now so convoluted. 836 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,120 Speaker 1: There's some very suspicious aspects to this case, particularly the 837 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,400 Speaker 1: whereabouts of Tiffany's cell phone that's a big one. And 838 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:33,359 Speaker 1: what about that suspicious activity on her Facebook account? Are 839 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,600 Speaker 1: these factors just throwing investigators off the trail or are 840 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:41,359 Speaker 1: they tied into the final answer to this mystery. In 841 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:46,360 Speaker 1: my opinion, Ashley Caudal knows more about these two questions 842 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,480 Speaker 1: than probably anyone else. I don't think it's any secret 843 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,239 Speaker 1: that actually Caudal remains the primary person of interest in 844 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,120 Speaker 1: this case, but there's probably other people that know something 845 00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,760 Speaker 1: about this case and could point investigators in the right direction. 846 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,719 Speaker 1: As far as cold cases are concerned, I think that 847 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 1: law enforcement is being as proactive as they possibly can be. 848 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not every day that you've got the 849 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:14,360 Speaker 1: district attorney's office directly involved in investigating a cold case. 850 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,799 Speaker 1: Typically district attorneys take over cases when the police make 851 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,000 Speaker 1: an arrest and finish an investigation. But that doesn't change 852 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,040 Speaker 1: the fact that, in terms of the lead investigator, this 853 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,840 Speaker 1: case has changed hands a number of times. Nevertheless, I 854 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,120 Speaker 1: think it's in the right place now. I think that 855 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,920 Speaker 1: the Cobb County Cold Case Unit is in the best 856 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:38,759 Speaker 1: position to solve this case. There's one crucial takeaway from 857 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,080 Speaker 1: all of this. It's something I've known for a while, 858 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 1: but learning about the Tiffany Witten case simply underscores this 859 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:50,440 Speaker 1: one simple fact. If someone is missing, report them right away, 860 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,120 Speaker 1: don't wait. That initial forty eight hour time period is 861 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,560 Speaker 1: absolutely critical. Investigators can do so much if they just 862 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,239 Speaker 1: know that someone is thing and they know that they 863 00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 1: need to be looking after forty hours is passed. It 864 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,040 Speaker 1: makes it so much harder for investigators to piece together 865 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,880 Speaker 1: what someone may be doing with their life. And finally, please, 866 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,920 Speaker 1: if anybody knows anything about the disappearance or what may 867 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:20,080 Speaker 1: have happened to Tiffany Witten, please contact John Dalls at 868 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,080 Speaker 1: the Cobb County District Attorney's Office or even your local 869 00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:28,320 Speaker 1: law enforcement agency. Somebody somewhere knows something. All it takes 870 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:32,200 Speaker 1: is that one call. So if you know anything, please 871 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,480 Speaker 1: contact John DAWs at the Cobb County District attorney's office 872 00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:39,720 Speaker 1: or contact local law enforcement. Tiffany deserves to be found 873 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:58,880 Speaker 1: and her family deserves closure. Sworn is produced by Tenderfoot 874 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,120 Speaker 1: TV in Atlanta. Story and production by Payne Lindsay, Mason 875 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:08,239 Speaker 1: Lindsay and Meredith Steadman and myself Philip Holloway executive producers 876 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,840 Speaker 1: Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. And if you have it yet, 877 00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: please check out our sister podcast, Up and Vanished that 878 00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,320 Speaker 1: follows the investigation into the disappearance of Georgia High School 879 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,759 Speaker 1: teacher and beauty queen Tara Grinstead. Up and Vantaged is 880 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,280 Speaker 1: available now on Apple Podcasts. Sworn is mixed and mastered 881 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,640 Speaker 1: by Resonate Recordings. If you're in the market for podcast production, 882 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,640 Speaker 1: go to Resonate Recordings dot com to get your first 883 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,799 Speaker 1: episode produced for free. If you haven't already, please head 884 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,600 Speaker 1: over to iTunes now to subscribe, rate, and review Sworn 885 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,400 Speaker 1: and make sure you check us out online at Sworn 886 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:46,200 Speaker 1: podcast dot com and follow us on social media at 887 00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,520 Speaker 1: Sworn podcast on Twitter and Instagram. And you can follow 888 00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,680 Speaker 1: me your host, Philip Holloway at phil Holloway e s 889 00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,600 Speaker 1: Q on Twitter. Thanks for listening. This is Philip Halloway. 890 00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:01,880 Speaker 1: And I'll see you next time. On sworn, I see 891 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:12,719 Speaker 1: I see Blod in the water, Rundy in rusty. I 892 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:21,799 Speaker 1: see I see blood in the water, charming, charming, See 893 00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:23,000 Speaker 1: good in the water,