1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace. Here, at a time when we 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: are all pulling together to fight coronavirus COVID nineteen, I 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: have something for you and all free E chapter on 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: coronavirus crimes and how to fight them. Don't be a 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: coronavirus crime victim. From door to door sales of fake 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: cures and tests vaccines that's not real, to robocalls that 7 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: are trying to scam you, to fake ads, to fishing 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: you online, to fake cures that are being sold on 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: the internet and on infomercials. Right now, you've got to 10 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: arm yourself against these crimes. Please download our free E 11 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: chapter Coronavirus Crimes. Don't be a victim. Go to crime 12 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: online dot com. You'll see it there in the link 13 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 1: and download it for free. Arm yourself against criminals and 14 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: scam artists, cons that will not only take advantage of you, 15 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: but take advantage of you, your parents, your grandparents, and 16 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: people you love. At a time when we are all 17 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: fighting the virus. I hope you go to crime online 18 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: dot com and download this. It's been highly researched and 19 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: presented for you for free. Goodbye, friend, keep the faith 20 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greece. What happened to a beloved 21 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: dance instructor, Carolyn High? This is Crime Stories. Thank you 22 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious 23 00:01:53,240 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: XM one eleven the Triumph Channel. How does this happen? Teens? Children, 24 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: children that had grown up suddenly get the news their 25 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: dance teacher has been murdered. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, 26 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: How does this happen? Take a listen now to our 27 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: forensict k f d X Police Department officials are asking 28 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: the public for information in a suspicious death investigation after 29 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: finding a woman's body in a driveway on Cumberland Avenue 30 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: earlier this afternoon. WFPD Public Information Officer Jeff Hughes says 31 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: officers responded to a call just before three forty five 32 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 1: and the thirty five hundred block of Cumberland Avenue. Who 33 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: says when officers arrived, they saw a white woman lying 34 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: in the driveway across from Jared Park. Crimes against Persons 35 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: Unit as well as the Justice of the Peace were 36 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: called to the scene. Who says the body will be 37 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: sent off to Dallas for an autopsy and the results 38 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: will be released in a few days. Officials are not 39 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: releasing the identity of the victim, Yet he was asked 40 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: the public to call crime stoppers with any information on 41 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: this crime. Well, we know the name of the dance 42 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: teacher is Carolyn High, and she had taught scores and 43 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: scores of dance students with me and All Star Panel. 44 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutors as at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com. 45 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: Karen Start, New York psychologist at Karen Start dot com. 46 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: Joining us from Manhattan. Cloyd Steiger thirty six years, Seattle PD, 47 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: twenty two homicide author of Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer, Gary 48 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: Jane Grant, Jesus Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, 49 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. But right now, 50 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: to Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page, le, 51 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: let me understand something before we get start on the evidence. 52 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: She's in a driveway. When I hear driveway, I think 53 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: of home, because if you're at a grocery store or 54 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: a mall, that's a parking lot. So it's a driveway. 55 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: I assume of a home across the street from a park. 56 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: And I noticed they were called in the afternoon. Police 57 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: that tells me it was broad daylight when an unarmed 58 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: female dance teacher who's been in the biz for a 59 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: couple of several years now is shot down. Who in 60 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: the world would have motive to gun down a beloved 61 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: dance instructor. I mean, it makes me think of missus Julia, 62 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: a kindergarten teacher, and she taught us actually in a barn, 63 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 1: and her husband, mister Bim restored the barn and turned 64 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: it into a school. Yes, who I thought of immediately 65 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: when I heard this dance teacher had been murdered. What 66 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: can you tell me about the location of the crime? 67 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: LEVI page. As you said, Nancy, it was in her 68 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: driveway and her body was found at three forty five 69 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: in the afternoon daylight, as you mentioned. And it was 70 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: January twenty six, twenty twenty. And this was the first 71 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: thomiside of twenty twenty in which it took. Did you 72 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: say Wichita Falls? Yes, you know it interesting because you 73 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: don't hear of a lot of crime in Wichita Falls, 74 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: especially as I take it. This was a residential neighborhood, yes, 75 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: a very quiet community. People there in the community said 76 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 1: that they saw her gardening out in her yard mowing 77 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: her wand that she was very friendly and a beloved 78 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: dance teacher that owned her own dance studio in the 79 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: nineties and still did classes at the park near where 80 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: she lived under own dance studio, still did classes. You know, 81 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: another very important thing to Wendy Patrick, California Prosecutor. It 82 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: was on a Sunday afternoon. Now, the reason I say 83 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: that is because you don't think of a lot of 84 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: murders going down on Sunday afternoon after church. Statistically, that's 85 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: a time of the day and of the week that's 86 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: a low crime time. And yes, studies have been done 87 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,799 Speaker 1: for years and years about the most likely time murders 88 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: are committed when murder and mayhem goes down, and it's 89 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: not on Sunday afternoon, Wendy Patrick, that's for sure. And 90 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: that's what makes this so heartbreaking is you're right. People 91 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: are getting out of church, they're going home. Their guard 92 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: is down. As this beloved dance teachers obviously was. She's 93 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: a writing home, she's in her driveway. It's familiar circumstances. 94 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: It's the last thing she expects is going to happen. 95 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: But you know what, Nancy, that makes her vulnerable. If 96 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: God forbid, there is somebody in the area looking for 97 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: a victim, not paying attention radar down to commit a crime, 98 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: and sadly, that's exactly what happened here to Joseph Scott, Morgan, 99 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. Jo Scott, we have not 100 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: just us, but experts and statistics have analyzed crime waves. 101 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: And when we hear, oh, there must be a full moon, 102 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: that's for real, because murders go up when there are 103 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: full moons. Also on Friday and Saturday nights. Anything after midnight, 104 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's the places up for grabs Sunday afternoon. 105 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: I'm not just pontificating. I'm not just amusing. This is 106 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: based on statistical evidence. Joe Scott, Yeah, it is. You know, 107 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: you can factor in things like the end of the month, 108 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: you can talk about when people get paid, all those 109 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: sorts of things, and its things that we say. There's 110 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: even temperature variations. At a friend of mine in graduate 111 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: school that studied instances of increased homicide rates when the 112 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: temperature increased. So yeah, there are a lot of these variables. 113 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: But it's so well, let me just take that in 114 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: for a moment. I guess because when it's cold, more 115 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: people are staying in and they're not exposed to other 116 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: people to kill them. When it's warm weather, everybody's out 117 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: and about which I guess increases the likelihood you're going 118 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: to have some kind of confrontation. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Plus, 119 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, the tempers rise, this sort of thing, and 120 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: you have an opportunity to interact, and that's what it's 121 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: all about relative to crime, you know, interaction with other people, 122 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: and that's a driver many times. The fact that this 123 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: case occurred at the time that it did is absolutely striking. 124 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: And I mean, you know Cloyd Steiger thirty six years Seattle, Pt. 125 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: Twenty two of that on homicide, Cloyd. The reality is 126 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: that when you just heard Joe Scott Morgan say less 127 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: likelihood for a confrontation during certain times of the year, 128 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: even based on temperature, a confrontation. She's bent over in 129 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: her garden, gardening in the front yard, for Pete's sakes, 130 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: who's going to have a confrontation with Yeah, Well, that's 131 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: that's what. You don't want to know what's going on. 132 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: The first thing gonna do arriving at this scene having 133 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: no information and find out what's going on in this 134 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: woman's life. Who is she? Is there anybody that want 135 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: to do this to her? Then you start looking for neighbors, 136 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: maybe that have ring cameras, a dance teacher to little girls, 137 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: not a dance dance or in a strip club. What 138 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: enemies she can have? You can have, you know, I 139 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: don't know, knowing nothing about her. You could have an 140 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: ex husband, ex boyfriend, maybe a rival or something. I mean, 141 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: that's a rival. You know, Cloyd, You know how much 142 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: I respect you, But oh, you're talking like the Abbey 143 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: Lee Miller. What's the name of that dance dance moms? 144 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: That kind of rival. I would not want that woman 145 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: on my bad side. Although I didn't report on her 146 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 1: bankruptcy fraud, and from what I hear, she was not 147 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: happy at all with the Nancy Gray show. That aside, 148 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: that's a whole nother can of worms. A rival. This 149 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 1: isn't the dance moms. I mean, are you even familiar 150 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: with that? Cloyd not really add boys so well. I 151 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't have been if I didn't have to report on 152 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: her fraud. And then my daughter sadly got sucked into it. 153 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 1: We had to binge on it time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 154 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: we're talking about a beloved dance teacher. But I want 155 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: you to hear very quickly our friend Crimeline dot COM's 156 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: Dave mac. When a popular dance instructor was identified as 157 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: the victim of a murder, many friends and students took 158 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: to social media to share their thoughts. Sixty five year 159 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: old Caroline High was discovered when Wichita Falls police officers 160 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: were dispatched to her home and discovered a deceased woman 161 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: lying in the driveway. Caroline High was listed as an 162 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: instructor through the Wichita Falls Parks and Recreation Department, teaching 163 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: Country and Western dance specialties were listed as two step, Waltz, shuffle, 164 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: and East Coast Swing. One of her former students, who 165 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: now owns her own dance company, Stephanie Meadenwald, the owner 166 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: of Dance, Etc. Posted on Facebook, your first dance teacher 167 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: will never leave dance from the beginning. And finally, I'm 168 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: so sorry we have to say goodbye to such a 169 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: wonderful person. You know, I want to go to Karen 170 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: Start and your psychologists joining me. You can find her 171 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: at Karen Start dot com. Karen I was asked, who's 172 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: your favorite teacher, and I immediately said Clara Belle Bryant 173 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: because I wrote my first poem with her, and she 174 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: always had our artwork all over the room. She took 175 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: special time with me. I loved miss Clara Belle. Now 176 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: there was one teacher. I had to travel to her 177 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: funeral to make sure she was really dead. And guess what, 178 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: there were like ten of us on the back road 179 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: just making sure the casket would creak open to jump 180 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: out and chase Anyway, long story short, this is one 181 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: of those teachers Carolyn High that you remember, Karen Stark. 182 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: We've been comparing this to Abbie Lee Miller and dance moms. 183 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: Nothing like that at all. This is a mile mannered, 184 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: layback dance instructor. She owned her own studio. As she 185 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: advanced in age, she started teaching different things like the 186 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: two steps. You know, having a teacher that you love 187 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 1: affects you the rest of your life. And we are 188 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 1: seeing Facebook, Instagram pouring in about her murder as I 189 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: followed this story, Nancy, That's exactly what I honed into. 190 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: Beside the side of the tragedy of her being killed, 191 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: the fact that there was this person who wrote a 192 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: beautiful thing saying, you never forget your first teacher, and 193 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: I think you never forget your favorite teachers, and you 194 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: never forget the ones that are the worst, the best 195 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: and the worst. But I remember when I was very young, 196 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: they had a dance teacher, Rosemary, and she never was 197 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: somebody that I forgot many teachers, but I didn't forget her. 198 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: They make an impact on you because that's how you 199 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: begin to get curious about life and feel good about 200 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: yourself and grow. This is a terrible tragedy, you know. 201 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: I remember my first dance classes Jackie and they were 202 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: at the Why, and I was the only girl that 203 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: did not have a two too. I just had a type. 204 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: I didn't know at the time that we really couldn't 205 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: afford to toos. It was all they could do to 206 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: get me to the class and pay for that I 207 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: bought Lucy. I kind of went overboard. I had to 208 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: like ten different twotos Karen, start you lived through my 209 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: two two phase with Lucy. She went in every call 210 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: or every everything, and she didn't like too toos anyway, 211 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: that's just you know my curse. Guys. This Carolyn High. 212 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: She looks like everybody's favorite aunt to me. I want 213 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: you to take a listen now to KFDX news reporter 214 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: Curtis Jackson, We've never had any problems. Floral Heights, what's 215 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: typically a quiet neighborhood, was rattled over the weekend after 216 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: the body of sixty five year old Caroline High was 217 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: found in the driveway of her own home. I didn't 218 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: know much about her except that she kept herself and 219 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: I saw her outside mowing the yard. Are working in 220 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: her flower bed. Nelta Perkins has lived in the neighborhood 221 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: for twenty years and says they've never had an incident 222 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: like this, and because the suspect has not been caught, Perkins, 223 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: along with Precious McLean and Seth Winkler, say they are 224 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: living in fear. Have him one shot. I'm too scared 225 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: to take her out of the house these days, Like 226 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: it's getting crazy around here, and it's just it's scary 227 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: to take her out here. I'm a reading right now. 228 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: Another tribute to her from a student. Caroline the reason 229 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: my sister and I love the art of dance so much. 230 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: She was the first to instill that love for us. 231 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: Even after moving on to a new studio, Carolin was 232 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: there every step of the way, showing us on. She 233 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: was there for every one of our recitals, and she 234 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: always let you know how proud of you she was. 235 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: I will never forget when a teacher from the twins 236 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: school showed up at some of their piano recitals. I 237 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: was so touched that she would spend her own private 238 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: time to come see them play in a piano recital. 239 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: All the sentiment aside. Let's analyze the crime scene with me. 240 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: Forensics expert Professor Forensics, jacksonvill State University, Joseph Scott Morgan. 241 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: You come on a body in the driveway. We have 242 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: learned that earlier that day she had been gardening in 243 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: the front yard, but she had gone to the grocery 244 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: and come back. Do you remember the petit case? The 245 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: petdit case up in the northeast where the home invaders 246 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: came in and they forced the mom to drive to 247 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: the ATM get money, come home, raped the mom, the 248 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: little girls set the house on fire after disabling the dad. Yes, 249 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: I believe they had been spotted at a grocery earlier 250 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: in the week, like the day before, and the home 251 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: invaders had followed them home. So this dance instructor Carolyn 252 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: High had just come back from the grocery store. Mom 253 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: on that everybody. But let's talk about the crime scene. 254 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: What do you do first? Well, you want to lock 255 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: it down very very quickly, Nancy. If you're the police officer, 256 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: this is a broad you know, this is not like 257 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: so that our listeners understand. This is not like it's 258 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: contained within a home. So everything's within the possibility. Here 259 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: you're out in the yard, you're out in the driveway. 260 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: This is a public area. Okay, So the police have 261 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: to be very very careful in locking down the perimeter 262 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: because you don't want to lose anything, and you want 263 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: to expand that crime Remember you can contract a crime scene, Okay, 264 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: you only get that one shot to expand it out 265 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: as far as you can get it so that you 266 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: can incorporate everything because you don't know what you're dealing with. 267 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: Cloyd met a great point just a second ago when 268 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: he was talking about you don't know what you're dealing 269 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: with when you arrived. So you got a castle wide 270 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: net and here you know, we've got a shellcases slay 271 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: the drop you're cutting out on me just a tiny bit. 272 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: I think you said you've got a shellcasing lying in 273 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: the driveway to leave I page Crime online dot Com 274 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: investigative reporter. Is that true? Is there still a shellcase 275 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: in the driveway? Yes, that is true. That tells me 276 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: a lot right there to Cloyd Styke, or that tells 277 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: me she was shot right there in the driveway. She 278 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: wasn't shot in a car then dumped out, nothing like that. 279 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: The showcasing is right there. That tells me where it 280 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: went down. Oh, absolutely, yeah, And I believe in reading 281 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: the trunk was open on her car and she was 282 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: by the rear of her car, so it looks like 283 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: you may have been getting something out of her car 284 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: when the assailant walked up and shot her. Yeah, jes 285 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: getting back from the grocery, Let's try Joe Scott again. 286 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, back to what you would do at the 287 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: crime scene. I'd like to find out how long she 288 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: had been dead. How do you tell that as a 289 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: medical examine or a death investigator, because that will start 290 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: my timeline. Yeah, exactly. One interesting little side note they 291 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: remember in the report they said the Justice of the 292 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: Peace was called to the scene. People might not know this, 293 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: but actually the Justice of the peace in the state 294 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: of Texas access the de facto of the horn. But 295 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: when they arrive at the scene, you want to check 296 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: for the level of riger mortis, which is the stiffness 297 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: in the body, distribution of settling a blood, which is postmortem. Leavidity, 298 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: has the blood settled and you can match time. Can 299 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: we just break that down to regular people talk, Wendy Patrick, 300 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: lavidity is when say I shoot you dead and you 301 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: fall down on your back, your blood is no longer 302 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: pumping through your body, Wendy Patrick. So it saddles to 303 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: the lowest point and that would be your back, your 304 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: here end, the backs of your legs, the backs of 305 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: your arm. That's how that works, right, And how has 306 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: that used, Wendy Patrick to determine cause of death? I 307 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: mean time of death, that's right. So you would look 308 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: and then you would have a medical expert basically go 309 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: backwards in time and say, if this is how we 310 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: found her, this has had to be at the time 311 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: of death. What's interesting in this particular case, Nancy, is 312 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: the fact that it was right out in the open 313 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: on a Sunday afternoon in the driveway. You have to 314 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: wonder how long could she possibly have been lying there? 315 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: Before somebody would have noticed this. So that's another interesting fact, 316 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: is it wasn't a case of well, maybe she died 317 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: elsewhere and somebody dumped her body at the scene. They're 318 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: probably going back right now when they found her and 319 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: trying to see, well, who shot her and how long 320 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: was it before somebody walked by on a Sunday afternoon. 321 00:19:53,920 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: Someone's going to see that. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, 322 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: the case that Carolyn high is enough to make you 323 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: look around and look over your shoulder when you get 324 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: out of your car in the driveway. Take a listen 325 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: to our friends KFGX, Curtis Jackson, Winkler and McLean actually 326 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: knew the victim. They met her when they were driving 327 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: by her house and saw her fall, so they pulled 328 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: over and helped her into her home. McClean says she 329 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: was a kind hearted woman. She was a very, very 330 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: kind and sweet person. She cared about her family a lot, 331 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: that's all she spoke about. She was very loving person. 332 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: Gary Harley is a Floral Heights resident as well, and 333 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: says he couldn't believe the news when he read about 334 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: what had happened. I think that's a terrible situation. If 335 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: somebody did this and then you catch them. I hate 336 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: to hear that that happened to that woman. And as 337 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: the investigation continues, then normally peaceful neighborhood has people fearful 338 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: waiting for the killer to be caught. Right now, as 339 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: it progresses, police disturbed, don't know what happened. Only when 340 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: someone goes by and notices the body. Is that when 341 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: the nine one call is made. She's found around three pm. 342 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: And as Joseph Scott Morgan was telling us, based on 343 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: rigor mortis, the stiffening of the body and postmorder levidity, 344 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: the settling of the blood and the body, the medical 345 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: examiner may be able to get eight time of death 346 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: very quickly. Leave my page. Who discovered her, who saw 347 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: her body? Her own daughter Tanya Florida discovered the body 348 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: and called, oh my stars, oh my stars, her own daughter. 349 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: Oh so, Joe Scott back to you, I want to 350 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: get that time of death. So yeah, one of the 351 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: other things that we would look for is also, you know, 352 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: how cool is the body? You know, we have something 353 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: that's actually referred to as algor mortar. Algor mortis, which 354 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: is the cooling or postmortem cooling of the body. You know, 355 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: we maintain at ninety eight point six throughout our life, 356 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: and we can actually measure that on an hour to 357 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: our basis a relative because we lose roughly a degree 358 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,719 Speaker 1: of body temperature for every hour after death. So that 359 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 1: gives us an indication as to how long the individual 360 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: would have been down. This is going to be also 361 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: kind of combined with all the other information, and that 362 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: will give us an idea as to how long she 363 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: had been down. Plus it has to be coupled with 364 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: statements from people who last saw her alive. That's where 365 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: we're going to start from as investigators, and then we'll 366 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: kind of marry that up together and come up with 367 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: a scientific estimation, if you will. And Cloyd Steiger thirty 368 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: six years Seattle, PD and author Cloyd I didn't realize 369 00:22:54,080 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: this until my first Arson case Arson homicide, that medical 370 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: examiners also use extrinsic evidence, evidence outside the dead body. 371 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: For instance, in that case, the cops the arson detectives 372 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: looked at the last time the victim was alive, the 373 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: last time she used her cell phone. They look at 374 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: other evidence to help them pinpoint the time of death. 375 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: And in this case, Cloud Steiger since as I believe 376 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: it was. You mentioned that her trent was still open, 377 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: she was near the back of her vehicle. I would 378 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: look at the grocery store receipt. I would look for 379 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 1: surveillance video at the grocery store, surveillance video in the 380 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 1: neighborhood to help me as I determined time of death. 381 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 1: Cloud Steiger. Yeah, the time of death is a very 382 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: inact in in precise science for cloners. So they're looking 383 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: for any outside information, and that's exactly the right. You'd 384 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: go to the store to pick her out in the video, 385 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: see if anybody was falling her around anything suspicious. Maybe 386 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 1: you can see the parking lot cat, anybody follow her 387 00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: car out. Those are the type of things you're going 388 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: to look for, you know, Wendy Patrick, If you watch 389 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: TV enough, you find out that in all of the 390 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: crime mysteries, the medical exandra look said the last food 391 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:11,959 Speaker 1: that they had in their stomach, and then suddenly they 392 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: have a time of death, like, aha, she had French 393 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: toes at eleven am. You know what, It's not like that. 394 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: You don't know what times she had French toes. You 395 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: don't it gets it's that's funny, ironic that it's boiled 396 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: down to that. But I guess that's one of the 397 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: things you would look at, right, It is one of 398 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: the things you would look at, because sometimes when you 399 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: see a dead body, it might be obvious as to 400 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: what the cause of death is, but usually it's not. 401 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: For example, you might see a lot of blood at 402 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: the scene, but somebody didn't die of bleeding out. There 403 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: might be some other cause of death. So that's why 404 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: autopsy results are so important. But you are correct that 405 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: you can't just look at one thing and then do 406 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: that extrapolation backwards, which is why common sense clues like this, 407 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 1: what time, what's the timestamp on the receipt? When did 408 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: somebody see her? When did she last use herself phone? 409 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: If in fact it was her. Sometimes the very sense 410 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: clues are a better indication of cause of death than 411 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: the medical things that we think might be obvious. And 412 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: another thing here and start. I don't want to live 413 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: in fear, But this woman had been gardening in her 414 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: front yard. Low crime area. Neighbors saw our gardening. She 415 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: went to the grocery store. She came back getting her groceries, 416 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: apparently out of her trunk. She's shot dead. It makes 417 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: you afraid to even get out from under the bed. 418 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: And it's a small town, and as you said, Nancy, 419 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: there's really very low crime. They don't really know things 420 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: like this, so don't be afraid. I think that this 421 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: was a fluke. I think that whatever happened here, it 422 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the fact that she was 423 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: out in gardening. Something went very, very wrong. Guys, I 424 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to news Channel six. 425 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: Is there a break in the case, reporter Alyssa ostrodoc 426 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: suspects who then demanded property and later shot her before 427 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: fleeing a scene. I'd be remiss if I didn't thank 428 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: our citizens for the tips that they called in, texted us, 429 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 1: and emailed with appreciate if you would continue that as 430 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: this investigation continues, citizens to be alert of their surroundings 431 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: and be aware of that. But I would just say 432 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 1: exercise caution as you normally would. Detective Laughlin said citizens 433 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: did come forward with information that helped point investigators in 434 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: the right direction. The investigation is still ongoing, but Chief 435 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: Arrego says that WFPD is always open to any information 436 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: that the public can provide. But what super secret information 437 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: that is apparently pointing cops in a particular direction to 438 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: take a listen to KFDX Darryl Franklin and Melanie Townsend 439 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: twn Arctics officers found a white male with a bag 440 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: in the twenty three hundred blog and they say right 441 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: next to them was a fire on the sidewalk and 442 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: they quickly put it out. They say they found charred 443 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: remains of cards and papers with High's name on them, 444 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 1: as well as her purse. Coy was then taken to 445 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: the police station, where they say he was read his rights. 446 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: They say Coy weighed his rights and con yes that 447 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: he knew the purse belonged to the woman who was murdered, 448 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: and that he started the fire to destroy the evidence. 449 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: Autopsy reports have not been released. Crime stoffers as still 450 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,479 Speaker 1: asking for tips and is still offering a twenty five reward. 451 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: Please are also asking residents in this area to check 452 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: their surveillance camera recordings to look out for anything that 453 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: may be related to this murder. You know, so, now 454 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: what am I? Is this? Correct? To leavipage crime online 455 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: dot com investigative reporter that two narcotic drug cops are out, 456 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: I guess on their regular beat and they see a 457 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: guy burning papers. They go over and they find a bag. 458 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if they're talking about a pocketbook, and in 459 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: it they discover items and they look at what was 460 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: being burned, and it's Carolyn High's papers that would have 461 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: been in her pocketbook. What can you tell me? Yes, 462 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: Forty six year old Toy Davenport. He was arrested for 463 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: campering with evidence in the Caroline High murder investigation. And 464 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: he started a fire and was burning her belongings and 465 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: some of them were credit and debit cards that were 466 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: attributed back to Carol and High. And what's interesting is 467 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: the guy that has her purse and her credit cards says, yeah, 468 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: I know they belonged to the dead dance instructor Crime 469 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. What happened to a beloved dance instructor, 470 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: Carolyn High? Take a listen to kf DX. This is 471 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: Melanie Townsend and Darryl Franklin again. Forty six year old 472 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: COI Lead Davenport was arrested on a charge of tampering 473 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: with physical evidence. Record searches show no previous arrests or 474 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: convictions for Devenport. Sixty five year old Caroline High was 475 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: found dead on her driveway Sunday in the thirty five Cumberland. 476 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: The affidavit for Davenport's arrest states the victim's daughter, Tanya Florida, 477 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: called nine one to report she'd found her mother in 478 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: the driveway unresponsive. The first officer on the scene Sunday 479 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: afternoon said Hi was on her back, apparently dead, and 480 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: there was blood on the ground. At a shell casing nearby, 481 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: The officers said Florida told him her mother had gone 482 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: out the night before and that she always keeps her 483 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: purse in the trunk of her car, which was open 484 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: and the purse was missing. Police say a confidential informant 485 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: contacted the Organized crime Unit just after midnight on Tuesday 486 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: and said a man named Koi had highest purse and 487 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: credit cards. Now we know she was in her yard 488 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,719 Speaker 1: gardening that day that Sunday and had been to the 489 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: grocery store in broad daylight. She's attacked that a purse 490 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: ends up elsewhere. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. 491 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: That's kind of tough to believe. This guy has her pocketbook, 492 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: but says he had nothing to do with her murder. 493 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: He just got her pocket book that's a little tough 494 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: to swallow and is in the process of destroying evidence, 495 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: and that's what makes it so incriminating looking just from 496 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: the outside. But even though it looks really bad, this 497 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: is one of those scenes that just begs for more 498 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: investigation because of the nature of this particular crime. Without 499 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: any forensic evidence or eyewitnesses tying this man to the scene, 500 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: there has to be more of a timeline to automatically 501 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: think this is the suspect, even though to the untrained 502 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: ear and eye it sure seems suspicious at first glance. Yeah, 503 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: it takes more than just wrong place, wrong time, wrong 504 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: pocketbook to get a murder conviction. Apparently cops are going 505 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: along with the fact that he's got the dead woman's 506 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: pocketbook and burning the contents because listen to this kf 507 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: DX Lauren Lynville officers responded to a call from High's daughter. 508 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: When officers arrived, they saw High lying in the driveway 509 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: across from Jared Park. Crimes against Persons Unit, as well 510 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: as the justice of the piece we're called to the 511 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: scene knows something, no matter how insignificant they think it 512 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: might be. Please let us know. Call crime stoppers because 513 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: it may be that one piece of evidence that we're 514 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: looking forward to connect some other dots that we already 515 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,479 Speaker 1: have on the board. Please say, forty six year old 516 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: COYLEI Davenport, who was arrested Tuesday after officers found charred 517 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: remains of cards and papers with High's name on them, 518 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: as well as her purse, is not connected to the murder. 519 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: They say he got the purse after the incident. Okay, 520 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: now that's a stretch, but it could be true. The 521 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: guy found with her purse burning, the contents of the 522 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: purse not connected to the murder. Okay, but how can 523 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: he help us? How can he help us find the killers? 524 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: If he's not connected, how did he find the purse? 525 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: Who gave it to him? Take a listen to k 526 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: f d X Lauren Linville. Officers with the Witch off 527 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: Falls Police Department arrested eighteen year old Seandre Ransom and 528 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: seventeen year old Xavion Denson yesterday. WFPD officers executed two 529 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: search warrants after interviews and follow up investigations. They're charged 530 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: with engaging in organized criminal activity, capital murder, and in 531 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: the Wichita County jail on a one point five million 532 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: dollar bond each According to an arrest Affidavid Denson confessed 533 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: to going with Ransom and two other males who have 534 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,959 Speaker 1: not been identified to look for someone to rob. WFPD 535 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: Detective John Laughlin says it appears that on Saturday, January 536 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: twenty fifth, Hi had been out and when she returned 537 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: home and pulled into her driveway, Ransom and Denson approached 538 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: her and demanded her purse before shooting and killing her, 539 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: then taking her purse. Coming back from the grocery store 540 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: in her own driveway, a dance instructor gunned down by 541 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: a robbing crew, as it is called levi page Crime 542 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: online dot com. Explain to me, so these guys what 543 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: they just get in a car and roam around looking 544 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: for somebody to rob. Do I understand that correctly she 545 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: had to die. You're Craig Nancy. Police received a tip 546 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: and led them to these two teams, Shandre Ransom eighteen 547 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: and Xavion Denson, seventeen, and police actually went to their 548 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: apartment and they were in possession of a stolen car 549 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: that was connected to another robbery separate from this in Waco, Texas. 550 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: And then they questioned the girlfriend of one of the 551 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: suspects and she said that the two had bragged about 552 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: killing and robbing Carolyn High, and when police started interrogating them, 553 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: Xavion Denson confessed that he murdered Caroline High. He said 554 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: he and his friends were trying to find anyone random 555 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: to rob. They came across sixty five year old Carol 556 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: and High in her driveway. They pointed a gun at her, 557 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: asked her for her purse. She resisted them, and then 558 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: they shot her dead and took her purse. You know 559 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: what really caps it off from me, Justice Scott Morgan. 560 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: They bragged they were bragging the big guys overpowered a 561 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: little sixty five year old lady with groceries in her hands. Wow, 562 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: they're the badasses into aren't day? I mean? And then 563 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: they bragged about it to their girlfriend, Joe Scott. Yeah, 564 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: real big men that would do this to this poor 565 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: woman who had served her community and served, you know, 566 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: impacted so many lives. I've got a little girl and 567 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: she took dance. I've seen the nutcracker more times than 568 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: I can count in my life. But you know, my 569 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: daughter loved her dance teacher. She had a big impact 570 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: and this woman had a big impact. But you know, 571 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: something that's really interesting to me is that they would 572 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: be so bold to shoot this poor woman in her driveway. 573 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: And that gives me an indication forensically that if we 574 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: can take that casing that we mentioned just a moment 575 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: ago and tied back to that weapon, if they're so 576 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: bold to do this right now, I wonder how many 577 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: other crimes that weapon may have been involved in. Remember, 578 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: we've got an indication that something has happened down in Waco. 579 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if maybe this weapon has been used before. 580 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: These people are so bold to do this, who knows 581 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: what they would have done in the dark at night. 582 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: You know, josephs got Morgan, that's a really good point. 583 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: We know, we've got APHIS, the Fingerprint Data Bank wheat 584 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: to so they find a fingerprint in a crime. That fingerprint, 585 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: if you can lift it, can be plugged into in 586 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: and into APHIS to see if it matches any convicted 587 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: founds or anybody in the APHA's data bank codas DNA 588 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 1: data bank. There's actually a data bank for weapons as well. Explain. Yeah, 589 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: it's actually managed by ATF. And the reason it's managed 590 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: by ATF is, you know, they examine firearms from all 591 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: over the country, and they're really involved in examining gang 592 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: violence and they have this network that's really plugged in 593 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: with weapons, and it's amazing, Nancy. In the cases I've 594 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: worked over the course of my career, how many weapons 595 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: are passed around many times to other people. There was 596 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: actually a group of people in Atlanta that would rent 597 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: weapons to individuals that wanted to go do strong arm 598 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: robberies and this sort of thing. So over that period 599 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: of time, this weapon has a history, and you can 600 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: tie it back on that shell casing. In particular, there's something, 601 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: because I'm assuming it's a it's a semi automatic, there's 602 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: something that are called extraction marks. That means when that 603 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: spent casing is pulled out, there is a specific ballistic 604 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: fingerprint or machining imprint that's left on the sides of 605 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,879 Speaker 1: that shot. You know, I love it when you talk 606 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: like that, but let me just try regular people talk. 607 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: When a gun is created, as you know, it's metal 608 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: and it's forged, and as that hot metal dries on 609 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: the inside of the barrel, there are little marks, like 610 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: little specs, and when a bullet hurtles down the inside 611 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,839 Speaker 1: of a barrel, the metal of the bullet hits the 612 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: metal of the barrel and it makes permanent striation of 613 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,439 Speaker 1: scratch marks on the bullet. And every bullet is shot 614 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: from that gun makes those marks. It's like a fingerprint. Yeah, 615 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: we know about a stolen car connected to this gun. 616 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,800 Speaker 1: You know another issue, what do we know by page 617 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: the four suspects das seventeen dents and seventeen morales nineteen 618 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:11,399 Speaker 1: ransom eighteen, all teens, but all part of the same act, 619 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, There is the death penalty in that jurisdiction. Now, 620 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: supremes say you can't put DPA death penalty on anybody 621 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,359 Speaker 1: eighteen or under, but there's one here that's nineteen. Yeah, 622 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: and that's one of the things that probably takes this 623 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: case out of the norm is that you're right, you 624 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: have four people that are both that are all charged 625 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 1: with the same crime. Obviously we're going to have to 626 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 1: figure out respective levels of culpability. But you can imagine 627 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: a defense argument if you're going to have three that 628 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,879 Speaker 1: are not eligible and they're all culpable. You can see 629 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: how that's an argument to the court that may actually 630 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: be persuasive. I say that because of the trend across 631 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: the country towards not imposing those types of penalties on juveniles. 632 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: We've seen it over the years, but you are correct, 633 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 1: But technically that's something the prosecution can go for if 634 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: they decide to. Yeah, I don't think it's going to 635 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: work because the other three code IF would not be 636 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 1: able to be facing the death penalty. Also nineteen years old, 637 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: we wait as justice unfolds and the at random shooting 638 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: death of a beloved dance instructor Nancy Grace crime story 639 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: signing off Goodbye friend,