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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. As you all know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a mom and that means parenting issues are near

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Speaker 1: and dear to my heart. And to be honest, I

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Speaker 1: have never had one of my children come to me

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Speaker 1: questioning their gender. I certainly have wondered how families face

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Speaker 1: issues like this and how society is pushing them one

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Speaker 1: way or the other. And I know people are on

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Speaker 1: both sides of that camp. And we've talked a lot

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Speaker 1: about what it is to transition or have a transgender child.

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Speaker 1: But today we have someone with us who has agreed

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Speaker 1: to talk about her situation, Chloe Cole. She is considered

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Speaker 1: a de transitioner and she's agreed to share her story

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Speaker 1: today in hopes of helping other families who are going

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Speaker 1: through something similar. I find this interesting because I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of parents are facing this. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: something that we talk about at home. When I say

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Speaker 1: that I haven't had to deal with it as a

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Speaker 1: child coming to me and telling me that they want

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Speaker 1: to transition. They see it. It's con instantly in their face.

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Speaker 1: They see it. No matter whether they're on Pinterest or

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Speaker 1: you know, on a game, they are seeing this. And

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Speaker 1: so that conversation has to be had, so I'm really

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Speaker 1: grateful that Chloe agreed to come on and talk about

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Speaker 1: this today. But before we get into that, first, I

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Speaker 1: six eight nine zero ninety three thirteen for details about

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Speaker 1: credit costs in terms. Now, I want to welcome Chloecole

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Speaker 1: to the podcast. Chloe, thank you so much for speaking

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Speaker 1: out on us. Thank you for having me so. I

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Speaker 1: heard your story and I think that a lot of

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Speaker 1: us are shocked by it. But also I can see

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Speaker 1: very easily how it could happen because we trust, I

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Speaker 1: think we intrinsically trust the medical the medical community. So

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Speaker 1: if the medical community comes to me and says, my

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Speaker 1: daughter has a problem, I'm gonna take that very seriously.

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Speaker 1: So can you just walk us through, because you say

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Speaker 1: you had these concerns and it was just kind of

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Speaker 1: like you were seems almost like you were taking on

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Speaker 1: a wave of what to do next by the medical community.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly the premise that they that they give

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Speaker 2: to these parents of these kids. They tell them that

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Speaker 2: it's basically like it's life or death for their son

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Speaker 2: or their daughter. That's they're going to have a high

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Speaker 2: risk of suicide if they don't go through with these treatments.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what they told my mom and dad. Now,

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Speaker 2: I what made me vulnerable to this was that there

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Speaker 2: are a few things. I started puberty pretty young. I

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Speaker 2: was about like eight or nine when my breast started

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Speaker 2: coming in, which I mean, girls are starting to go

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Speaker 2: through puberty younger and younger, so I guess now that's

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Speaker 2: pretty standard, but it doesn't make it any less difficult, really.

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Speaker 2: I mean, in my experience, like it really did feel

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Speaker 2: like my body was it felt like it was becoming,

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Speaker 2: it was developing a lot faster than I was as

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Speaker 2: a person. I was still a child, and I felt

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Speaker 2: like people were starting to almost see me like I

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Speaker 2: was a woman already. I was getting like a lot

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Speaker 2: of comments on my body. A lot of it was

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Speaker 2: from my peers, both girls and boys, and it was

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Speaker 2: just embarrassing to have that part of my body just

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Speaker 2: have like these developing parts of my body be focused

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Speaker 2: on so much.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not surprised by that, I guess, and

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Speaker 1: I never really thought of it that way, but my

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Speaker 1: youngest too, are ten right now, And I think that

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Speaker 1: you are actually starting to talk about that stuff in

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Speaker 1: school because they go through kind of those classes of

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Speaker 1: your body's going to change, and then they start talking about, well,

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Speaker 1: so and so already has in this person's brain abroad,

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Speaker 1: and there is a lot of and I mean we

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Speaker 1: are in a house of I have four daughters, so

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Speaker 1: everybody's pretty open about that kind of us. So the

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Speaker 1: girls do talk about it, and I just never had

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Speaker 1: really thought about how that might be something that is challenging.

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Speaker 1: We are late bloomers in our house. I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 1: So for us, it's like I never thought about it

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Speaker 1: from the perspective of what it is like if you're

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Speaker 1: not a late bloomer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I didn't really It's not something that I

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Speaker 2: really felt like I had anybody to talk about with either.

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Speaker 2: At the age that I was, I didn't really know

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Speaker 2: how to verbalize these feelings or even just like how

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Speaker 2: how much it was affecting me. But I didn't feel

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Speaker 2: super close to a lot of my family and not

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Speaker 2: really like my mom or my older sisters, so I

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Speaker 2: didn't really feel like I had anybody to like look

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Speaker 2: up to and ask questions about this kind of thing,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of the information that I was getting

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Speaker 2: all my body, all my sexuality was from like my

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Speaker 2: peers or from the internets, so not exactly the greatest guidance.

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Speaker 2: And I was a bit of a tomboy, especially like

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Speaker 2: as I got older, I just started to feel like

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Speaker 2: I related more and more to the boys around me,

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Speaker 2: and I just liked being in the presence more. I

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Speaker 2: felt like they were funnier, they were more fun to

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Speaker 2: be around, and I just enjoyed my time with them

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Speaker 2: more than I did being with the girls for a

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Speaker 2: very long time, and being a tomboy was something that

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Speaker 2: I took pride in for a little while, but it

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Speaker 2: got difficult, Like as I started progressing new middle school,

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Speaker 2: everybody starts going through everybody else starts going through puberty too,

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Speaker 2: and like the dynamics changed socially and now like I

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Speaker 2: can't like hang out with a guy without being without

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Speaker 2: being seen as like a like a romantic thing, and

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Speaker 2: losing that was kind of difficult for me as I

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Speaker 2: went through that, and I started to feel like, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's all these expectations of me as a girl, as

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Speaker 2: a woman that I don't really feel like I can

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Speaker 2: early match up with both like out of myself as

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Speaker 2: a person, out of my personality, and also like the

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Speaker 2: way that I look. I grew up like in a

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Speaker 2: very hyper sexualized, very media rich environment, so it wasn't

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Speaker 2: something that I could really escape, and that was that

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Speaker 2: was pretty difficult for me. It got to the point

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Speaker 2: that like I started to feel like, you know, I

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm going to be enough as

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Speaker 2: a woman, and I don't really know if that's something

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Speaker 2: that I want to be either. I was getting all

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Speaker 2: these negative ideas about what being a woman would be,

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Speaker 2: like what that would mean, And it always seemed like

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Speaker 2: people and the girls and women especially while talking about it,

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Speaker 2: would always talk it. They would always focus on the negatives,

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Speaker 2: the pain of periods of pregnancy, childbirth, how scary all

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Speaker 2: that was.

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Speaker 1: And matter. I mean, as you're talking, I'm thinking, gosh,

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Speaker 1: how often do we we just complain a lot? And

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Speaker 1: what is that? And you're young at this point, you're

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Speaker 1: twelve at this point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, roughly about about twelve years old. When I started

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Speaker 2: to when I started to feel this way, I felt

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Speaker 2: like the value of being a woman wasn't really emphasized

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Speaker 2: to me. And there were times when I thought I

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Speaker 2: would just be happier if I had been born as

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Speaker 2: a boy, that I would fit in better, that it

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Speaker 2: just would make better sense. But I didn't really actually

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Speaker 2: believe that I actually was a guy. And so I

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Speaker 2: learned about the transgender community through social media, and this

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Speaker 2: idea was planted in my head that just because somebody

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Speaker 2: is born one way doesn't mean they have to be

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Speaker 2: like that for life, your identity, it is your choice.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to if you don't like it, you

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Speaker 2: don't have to live that way. You get to make

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Speaker 2: the decision. And I mean some people are born in

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Speaker 2: the wrong body.

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Speaker 1: I think that I think that that is. I think

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Speaker 1: there are some people who really feel that they are

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Speaker 1: born in the wrong body. But this has been pushed

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Speaker 1: on children at such a young age, at such a

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Speaker 1: vulnerable age, and I think we've seen this, we seem

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Speaker 1: to have seen this increase. And I asked for your

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Speaker 1: story because your story comes at a time when this

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Speaker 1: is not in the news media all the time. Not

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Speaker 1: people are not talking about this. And I talked about

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Speaker 1: the doctors because I think you can be shuffled into

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Speaker 1: a room and sold Okay, this is the treatment for this,

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Speaker 1: and there's no real marker to say, well, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: that wasn't the treatment for them, That wasn't the treatment

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Speaker 1: for them, Like why is this the treatment for me?

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Speaker 1: You know? And so I just wonder if that was

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Speaker 1: what happened in your family at that time. I mean,

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Speaker 1: my closest, my closest connection to this is when I

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Speaker 1: was sick myself and went for cancer treatment. The doctor's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this surgery will go in and we will have the

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Speaker 1: surgery immediately within five days. And I was like, man,

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Speaker 1: as an adult at thirty eight years old, I for

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Speaker 1: the first time stepped back and said, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I trust this. And it was probably the hardest

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Speaker 1: thing I've ever done to say I don't trust what

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Speaker 1: a doctor is telling me. And so I want when

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Speaker 1: people are hearing this and they're like, oh, how could

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Speaker 1: you end up doing this? You automatically trust your doctors.

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Speaker 1: It's like they're the experts. There's this feeling that going

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Speaker 1: against them is so challenging. It's so hard to pull

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Speaker 1: away from what we know as a society that the

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Speaker 1: medical community is right. So when you went in at

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Speaker 1: twelve and you started talking to doctors about this, what

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Speaker 1: did they say to your parents?

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Speaker 2: So with the transgender community, it's pretty unique because, I mean,

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Speaker 2: the community itself romanticizes these treatments, talking about, oh, you're

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Speaker 2: going to experience gender euphoria, when you feel affirmed, when

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Speaker 2: you when you start socially transitioning, and then more and

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Speaker 2: more as you go through the medical process of it.

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Speaker 2: So I already, I mean, with the way that they

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Speaker 2: sell it, I was already invested in actually going into

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Speaker 2: the treatments before I was in the doctor's office. They

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Speaker 2: talk about how they connect your identity with these treatments.

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Speaker 2: They say that gender identity is something that is innate

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Speaker 2: and it has to be treated immediately because of the

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Speaker 2: apparent suicide had risk.

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Speaker 1: Did you feel suicidal?

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Speaker 2: No, I actually wasn't suicidal at all until I started

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Speaker 2: all these treatments. I was. I was in distress. Sure,

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Speaker 2: A lot of it was just really like ordinary adolescent

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Speaker 2: girl distress of going through the process of puberty, all

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Speaker 2: the social changes and all the awkwardness and grief that

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Speaker 2: can come with that, and nobody had really ever considered that.

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Speaker 2: But I also I was previously diagnosed with ADHD. I

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Speaker 2: had symptoms of actually being on the spectrum. I wasn't

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Speaker 2: doing super well socially in school at that time, and

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Speaker 2: I had a body image disorder that actually went undiagnosed

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Speaker 2: for years until after I stopped transitioning. I had like

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Speaker 2: these very visible red flags that were completely ignored during

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Speaker 2: the course of treatment. MM, like what I was, not

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Speaker 2: like like what I I like what I just saw that.

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Speaker 1: They should have. So when you came in, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is kind of shocking to think that you would

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Speaker 1: go in and they wouldn't say, Okay, Well, we're looking

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Speaker 1: at a patient who's twelve, who has gone through puberty early,

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Speaker 1: who has struggled with the social anxiety that comes around

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Speaker 1: going through puberty early as a girl, because I think

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Speaker 1: even as a girl, to me, it's harder because it's visible, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, boys may have their voice change, but there's

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Speaker 1: a visible change in you're different than the other kids,

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Speaker 1: and so.

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Speaker 2: It's a lot more. It's a lot more the physical

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Speaker 2: changes in girls. They come on a lot more quickly

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Speaker 2: as well. They develop a lot more quickly.

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Speaker 1: Instead of talking through that and talking about the beauty

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Speaker 1: of your body changing, because I think it's hard to

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Speaker 1: think of it as beautiful at the moment, but there

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Speaker 1: is so much beauty in what happens through puberty, and

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Speaker 1: we're so we're in a society right now that is like, oh,

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Speaker 1: nothing hard. We want to avoid anything hard. Puberty is hard.

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Speaker 1: I mean you are changing your emotional I have girls

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Speaker 1: in my house right now that are going through puberty,

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Speaker 1: and one minute everybody's joking and laughing, and the next

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Speaker 1: minute they don't even know why they're upset because there's

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Speaker 1: so much going on in your body. It is chaos

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Speaker 1: and it's very challenging. You would think that at those

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Speaker 1: critical moments, that's when the medical community would say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we've got to come in and we've got to talk

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Speaker 1: to this person about how the body changes and how

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Speaker 1: this is normal and you'll get through it. Because in

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Speaker 1: addition to that, those highs and lows also once they passed,

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Speaker 1: they passed, but they put you on puberty blockers. We've

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Speaker 1: talked a lot on this program about puberty blockers because

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Speaker 1: there's so many harmful effects to them. There's potential sterility,

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Speaker 1: it changes, it stops you from growing. We don't know

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Speaker 1: what that does actually to your body long term, but

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Speaker 1: take us through that from your perspective, were you excited

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Speaker 1: about this is this way? I mean, you say you

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Speaker 1: read about it online, you were in these communities, so

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Speaker 1: did you feel like you were pushed into that or

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Speaker 1: was this just kind of the natural next step.

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Speaker 2: I feel like push isn't really the night the right word,

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Speaker 2: necessarily because I wasn't directly interacting within anybody. I wasn't

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Speaker 2: really talking with anybody. I was just watching and observing

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Speaker 2: as they went through. I mean, it was kind of

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Speaker 2: beautiful to me at the time because it looked like

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Speaker 2: they were going through these trials with going from Many

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Speaker 2: of these individuals were buoyed or abused by their family.

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Speaker 2: They were not in the best situations at school, at home,

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Speaker 2: but they got through it, and eventually they became accepted

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Speaker 2: amongst their peers, amongst their family. They started being referred

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Speaker 2: to as their preferred name. Some of them eventually went

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Speaker 2: on to to take hormones and undergo the other procedures,

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Speaker 2: and it was like, Wow, it's just doble watching these

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Speaker 2: people's journeys as they become happier, as they become who

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Speaker 2: they claim to be their authentic selfs, And that was

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Speaker 2: something that I really it was something that's hit pretty

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Speaker 2: deeply for me because I was struggling to find my

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Speaker 2: identity for years. I didn't have a whole lot of

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Speaker 2: friends in elementary or middle school, and I didn't really

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Speaker 2: know who I was as a person. I didn't feel

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Speaker 2: like I was really recognized by the people around me,

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Speaker 2: like I was always just kind of a wallflower. And

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Speaker 2: it gave me hope that I could find myself. And

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Speaker 2: I really truly believed that I had the brain of

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Speaker 2: a boy and a girl's body, and that's why I

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Speaker 2: wasn't a feminine girl. That's why I felt this distress

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Speaker 2: around my developing body. And my doctors took this belief

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Speaker 2: I had and they let it run. They let my

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Speaker 2: childish judgment run the entire course of my judgment and

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Speaker 2: the rest of my physical development.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

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Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon podcast. A child at twelve can make

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Speaker 1: a decision to take a medication that is going to

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Speaker 1: change everything about their development. But it wasn't just that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you had surgery in just a few years

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Speaker 1: after that. Just from I think from the outside perspective,

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh my goodness, this is a freight train.

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Speaker 1: It's going so fast. She went from questioning what her

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Speaker 1: place was in the world to having her breasts removed.

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Speaker 1: And that seems hard to understand. And what was that

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Speaker 1: like for you, because you say that initially that was

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Speaker 1: a good thing, right, when did you decide Hmmmm, this

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Speaker 1: is probably not what I was supposed to do.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't I wouldn't really say it was a good thing,

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Speaker 2: even if I felt that way at the time, I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't really even say that it made me happy. Sure,

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Speaker 2: like I was excited, but I wasn't fulfilled because the

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Speaker 2: entire basis of the treatments, it's a lie. I was

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Speaker 2: never actually going to become a boy, and I was

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Speaker 2: just going to become damaged and chasing this dream that

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Speaker 2: would never come true. So they started me on puberty

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Speaker 2: blockers and distosterone at thirteen. The blockers are pretty tough.

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Speaker 2: I was on them for about a year, and for

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Speaker 2: about like a like a month to about like two

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Speaker 2: months of that time, I was on them alone without

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Speaker 2: any other any other any other hormone, and and it

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Speaker 2: basically like put me to a place into like a

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Speaker 2: state of menopause because I was like I was like

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Speaker 2: four or so years in a puberty, right, and it

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Speaker 2: just halted my development. It halted all the production of

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Speaker 2: my sex hormones and the function of my ovaries while

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Speaker 2: I was on them, and so I was getting the whole,

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Speaker 2: the whole deal I was under. I was experiencing like hot.

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Speaker 1: Flashes oh as a child.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And this went on for about like the entire

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Speaker 2: year that I was on them.

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Speaker 1: It was it sounds awful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it was. It was pretty rough and without like

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Speaker 2: the any hormones in my body, like it just I

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Speaker 2: felt very lethargic. It was. I felt like a little

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Speaker 2: bit depressed, and it made it hard to like focus

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Speaker 2: my classes. So once I started on the distosterone, it

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Speaker 2: was like, wow, like I feel great. I mean it's

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Speaker 2: a literal steroid that they put me on, that they

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Speaker 2: put this little thirteen year old girl on, and so

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Speaker 2: like I had like a huge boost of my energy.

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Speaker 2: I felt pretty confident, both because of the effects of

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Speaker 2: being on androgens and also because I felt affirmed. I

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Speaker 2: felt like I was on track to becoming this boy

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Speaker 2: who I was led to believe that I was supposed

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Speaker 2: to be. I was looking forward to the physical changes,

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Speaker 2: which came pretty quickly my voice dropped pretty quickly, and

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Speaker 2: it was very deep for a long time. It was

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Speaker 2: a lot deeper than this now, actually, and it's a

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Speaker 2: miracle that it even lightened up. Then I started developing

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Speaker 2: a bunch of muscle. I started to like the hair

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Speaker 2: all over my body got thicker, the hair on my head,

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Speaker 2: the hair and my eyebrows, my eyelashes, my facial hair.

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Speaker 2: I started to develop like this glow in my skin,

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Speaker 2: and I felt like it was the best I had

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Speaker 2: ever looked in my life. And when you're somebody who

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Speaker 2: has a body image disorder, you want to change, You

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Speaker 2: seek change, And this gave me that. It was still

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Speaker 2: kind of awkward because I was still in eighth grade

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Speaker 2: when I was starting event these interventions. So like, even

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Speaker 2: as I was starting to change physically and I was,

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Speaker 2: I was satisfied and looking forward to that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: everybody around me had known me since elementary school. They

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Speaker 2: I I wasn't nobody actually thought that I was a boy.

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Speaker 2: So I decided like I wouldn't make any further efforts

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Speaker 2: to transition until I would I would enter high school.

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Speaker 2: And that changed because of a sexual assault that happened

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Speaker 2: in at school that went completely unresolved because I didn't

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Speaker 2: really feel like I could report it to anybody because

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Speaker 2: I didn't trust anybody at that school. I couldn't I

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Speaker 2: felt like I couldn't even trust like my teachers in

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Speaker 2: the staff there to help me with my education. I

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Speaker 2: had an ip that they were not following the rules

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Speaker 2: of at all, So how could I help How could

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Speaker 2: I expect them to help me with help me feel

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Speaker 2: safe there? And I was like, I was in the

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Speaker 2: mindset of like, I'm trying to be I'm a boy,

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Speaker 2: So I mean, how would I even tell that to somebody.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be seen as weak. I don't

380
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Speaker 2: want to be seen as a girl. I just I

381
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Speaker 2: guess all I have to do about this is man up.

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Speaker 2: So I never reported that assault for years, but I

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Speaker 2: decided that I would start trying to hide my breasts

384
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Speaker 2: so that nobody could ever hurt that part of my

385
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Speaker 2: body ever again. So going into high school, I was

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Speaker 2: on hormones long enough that I actually had a deeper

387
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Speaker 2: voice than most of the other the other boys like

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Speaker 2: going to freshman year, and I looked like any other

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Speaker 2: like fourteen year old boy, and my chest was hidden.

390
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Speaker 2: Nobody knew other than people who I went to school

391
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Speaker 2: with before. But I I started going through like the

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Speaker 2: social changes as people like saw me as a boy.

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Speaker 2: I started using like the mile rushroom facilities and locker

394
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Speaker 2: room facilities, and I thought for a while that I

395
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Speaker 2: was satisfied that I was with this, But that's just

396
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Speaker 2: a lingering feeling of like of fear of people even

397
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Speaker 2: just knowing that I was a girl, especially because of

398
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Speaker 2: what had just happened to me months prior, was in

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Speaker 2: my mind for years.

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Speaker 1: And it's out of curiosity. Though as you're telling me this,

401
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Speaker 1: it just seems like there's so much energy into this

402
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Speaker 1: because it's like almost like keeping a secret, but it's

403
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Speaker 1: not a secret, and it's just there's just so much

404
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Speaker 1: of your energy as a student that has to go

405
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Speaker 1: into who you are trying to become. What was that

406
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Speaker 1: like trying to do to do school, to do childhood

407
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Speaker 1: at that time while you are at doctors and getting

408
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Speaker 1: medications and there's so much going on revolving around changing

409
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Speaker 1: your gender, how is anything else happening that's childhood based?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I really do feel like I was forced

411
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Speaker 2: to grow up a lot sooner than I should have,

412
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Speaker 2: and it was like.

413
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Speaker 1: That's funny because almost like that's what you were trying

414
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Speaker 1: to avoid.

415
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Speaker 2: In some ways.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean with the early with the early puberty,

417
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Speaker 1: it's like you were like, I didn't want to go

418
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Speaker 1: through this early puberty, and then all of a sudden

419
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Speaker 1: you're forced into growing up even faster.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was like I was putting on a

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Speaker 2: mask every day. I knew even subconsciously that I was

422
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Speaker 2: still a woman, that I always would be that way,

423
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Speaker 2: and like especially like when I would come home after school,

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Speaker 2: like I would take I would take off my my binder,

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Speaker 2: which was like the compression garment that I used to

426
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Speaker 2: to make my my flat, my my chest look flat

427
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Speaker 2: before I underwent surgery, and you know, like I take

428
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Speaker 2: like a shower, I would see my bare chest and

429
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Speaker 2: it was just a reminder that this part of me

430
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Speaker 2: would never change. And it was just exhausting to basically

431
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Speaker 2: lie to everybody around me every day, to worry that

432
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Speaker 2: one day I might be found out, to worry about

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Speaker 2: what the consequences that might be, especially like if somebody

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Speaker 2: like finds me like in the locker room or like

435
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Speaker 2: in the bathroom while I'm alone, while I'm in a

436
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Speaker 2: vulnerable situation, like while I'm changing or something, and what

437
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 2: could happen to me? What could they do to me?

438
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 2: It was very anxiety inducing and eventually it just wasn't

439
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 2: exciting anymore. It was just my life, and that life

440
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: was worse than the one that I had before. I

441
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: started feeling more and more dissociated from that girl, that

442
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 2: person who I used to be. I started feeling associated

443
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 2: from my own body. As a change started rolling in.

444
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 2: I started feeling like I was becoming more and more

445
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: distant with the people around me, with my friends, my family,

446
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 2: with my surroundings.

447
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: What is it like at home at this point? How

448
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: do your parents interact with you? I mean, is this

449
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: hard for them? Are they seeing that this is a

450
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: real struggle?

451
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean it was really hard to figure it

452
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 2: out at first for me because I mean, and during

453
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: that like initial years, so I was in the honeymoon

454
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 2: phase and I seemed like I was happier, and I

455
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,239
Speaker 2: seem that way to all the people around me, and

456
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 2: then I started getting drastically worse so so quickly. And

457
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 2: I know that it was hard for my mom and

458
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: dad because they were watching It's like watching your own

459
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 2: kid become an entirely different being. I can't imagine what

460
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: my mom and dad went through. But I mean they

461
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: from the very beginning, they wanted to be accommodating. They

462
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 2: wanted to help me feel comfortable in my own skin.

463
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 2: But they didn't want me to go through this. They

464
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 2: didn't want me to. They didn't want me to TRENSHD

465
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 2: medically at all. That was not their expectation when they

466
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: sent me to therapy. When I started seeing the doctors,

467
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 2: they wanted to have help in raising me. Really, they

468
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 2: just wanted me to be able to grow up without

469
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: any intervention, to have some freedom in expressing myself. But

470
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: they didn't want me to undergo any decisions surrounding my body.

471
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 2: They felt like their hand was forced because they were

472
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 2: told that it was all I had, that it was

473
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 2: going to be my life on the line. And when

474
00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: you're a mother or father and you're told that your

475
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 2: son or daughter could die if you don't start treatment,

476
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: now what do you do? Oh?

477
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,719
Speaker 1: I can't. I honestly, I cannot even imagine having that

478
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: conversation with doctors. And I think that that has been

479
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: shocking to parents to hear. But if you put yourself

480
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: in that position, you're like, man, I'm if I'm sitting

481
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: in front of a doctor and they're telling me you're

482
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 1: going to lose this kid. I'm going to do everything

483
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: I can to make sure I don't lose my child.

484
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: So you, I mean, this is a long period of

485
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: your life, and especially as a child, this is a

486
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: long period of your life. So this starts when you're

487
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: like twelve, you have the double misectomy, when you're fifteen.

488
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: By sixteen, you're going I don't think I want to

489
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: be a boy anymore. Is that how it went?

490
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, So in my sophomore year of high school, I

491
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 2: started to become like very visibly depressed. My grades were

492
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 2: actually starting to fail, Like I always failing out of

493
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: my classes, out of several classes. By this point in time,

494
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 2: I wasn't applying myself in my studies anymore. I just

495
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,479
Speaker 2: I became apathetic. I stopped caring. I became suicidal. I

496
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 2: just didn't want to be here anymore because it every

497
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: day was just such a struggle for me. And I

498
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: couldn't even figure it out because I was so deep

499
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: into this idea that I was a boy. That's I

500
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: couldn't I couldn't even fathom that could be wrong, or

501
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 2: that this could be harming me because I was. My

502
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: entire family was so sold into it.

503
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: So how hard it is that if everybody sold into it,

504
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: how hard is it to go Maybe this isn't what

505
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: I am.

506
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 2: I mean just the thought of going back to everybody

507
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: in my life and telling them that I was wrong

508
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: about this, that I was still Chloe, that I was

509
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: so girl and would only ever be a woman was

510
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: just humiliating. I couldn't even fathom that for the loss.

511
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: You were a kid, I mean, that's the thing that's

512
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: crazy to me as an adult. I'm like, no, it's not.

513
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: You're a kid. You can make those decisions, like you

514
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: can change your mind, because that's that's your age at

515
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: that time. We all know that.

516
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I started to get sick of wearing a

517
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: stupid binder every day. It's like, I like, yeah, it

518
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 2: was comforting that that part of my body was hidden,

519
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: that nobody would know that I was actually a girl,

520
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 2: and that nobody could hurt that part of me, that

521
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 2: there was this barrier on me basically. But I mean,

522
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 2: this thing was tight, like it would get sweaty, like

523
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: I'd wear it like whenever I worked out, whenever, like

524
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 2: I went swimming or on a Ryan. I hated it,

525
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: and after two years of it, I was just so

526
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: done with it. I wanted to be free of it.

527
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: But I also didn't want to have visible breast anymore.

528
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 2: I was kind of insecure about how the rest of

529
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 2: my body was becoming more masculine visually, but this part

530
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: of my body was still there, and I just felt

531
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 2: like it made me so ugly. I wanted to look

532
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 2: like the other boys my age. I wanted to be

533
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 2: able to take off my shirt like them and not

534
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: have to worry about anything. And there is still that

535
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: unresolved sexual trauma that I I mean for a long time,

536
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: and you recognize it as that I didn't know how

537
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 2: to bring that up in therapy because I repressed it.

538
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 2: And I mean, there was just so much going on

539
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 2: that should have been like a major red flag to

540
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 2: my providers when I was going through when I was

541
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: going through the referral process for surgery.

542
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,719
Speaker 1: But how much of that do you think is how

543
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: much of it do you think is experimental and that

544
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: they wanted to get money. I mean, sometimes I feel

545
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: like these doctors are like, oh, this could be a

546
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: cash cow, and this person is willing to be my

547
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: astronaut in this game.

548
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 2: Everything about this course of treatment is experimental, especially on children.

549
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 2: We don't know how this affects a children's development long term,

550
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: when it comes to their brain, how it affects them

551
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: as they're developing socially and emotionally, how it affects their

552
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: sexual and reproductive developments, or the rest of their body.

553
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: We're starting to we're just barely starting to scratch the

554
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 2: surface with how lupron, how cross sex hormones affect boys

555
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: and girls.

556
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: Well, they say it's all reversible. Do you feel like

557
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: it's reversible?

558
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 2: No, And that actually a lot of these it's interesting

559
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 2: that a lot of these acts say that it's reversible,

560
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 2: because my doctors actually told me that some of these

561
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 2: effects are not going to be reversible, Sir, Drenth is

562
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 2: not going to be reversible either either way. Though, Like,

563
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:14,719
Speaker 2: no matter how much you tried to tell a kid like,

564
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: they're not going to get that. They're not being No,

565
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 2: they're not going to be able to get that through

566
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 2: their heads because children don't know what permanent means. When

567
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: you've been in the world for less than a few decades,

568
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: when you have so little experience in life, and when

569
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: your brain is not even halfway fully developed. How are

570
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 2: you supposed to make a decision that will affect you

571
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: for life, especially around these things that are so so

572
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 2: integral to the human experience. So you're reactivabilities like your

573
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 2: sexual function and drive.

574
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: You talked about a few things that changed, like your voice.

575
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,239
Speaker 1: You said your voice has gotten a little higher, but

576
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: generally that doesn't happen. What about facial hair? What about

577
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: those things that are innately male? Did those when you

578
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 1: go off? Do those go away?

579
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: Some of the effects are versible, like the changes in

580
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: muscle mass and such, but the changes in my bone

581
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 2: structure are permanence. I have like wiier shoulders, like a

582
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 2: wider upper body. My hips are not super developed, and

583
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 2: I have like a bit of an atom's apple. I

584
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 2: my voice is never going to be where it was

585
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,959
Speaker 2: or where it would have been. I used to sing,

586
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 2: and I'm like struggling to get my singing capabilities back.

587
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 2: And the facial hair is permanent. I end up having

588
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:47,919
Speaker 2: to get laser because I actually had like a little

589
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 2: bit of a like a five o'clock shadow. And you know,

590
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 2: like I'm a woman, like some some women have like

591
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 2: pcos or other conditions where they have like higher erogens

592
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: and they're fine with that for me. And I also

593
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 2: have some issues with my reproductive system, like I currently

594
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: do not have a a regular typle. I have some

595
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 2: issues with my sexual function, which is I'm an adult now,

596
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 2: like I'm nineteen years old, and that's something that's painful

597
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 2: to acknowledge for me. That's something that is going to

598
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 2: affect me in my future relationships. That's going to affect

599
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 2: me in my marriage potentially. And I don't know if

600
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 2: I'm going to be able to have children, if I'll

601
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 2: be able to conceive, I'll be able to safely care

602
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: to term, whether I'm at risk of any sort of

603
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 2: reproductive cancers or like the quality of my eggs for example.

604
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: That's something that's scary for me because now, like I'm

605
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 2: an adult and I want to have a family of

606
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 2: my own. So there were some effects that I wasn't

607
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: really properly informed of, Like I experienced joint pains I

608
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 2: believe from the puberty blockers and possibly from the combination

609
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 2: of the hormones as well. After about a year or

610
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 2: so of being on the hormones, I actually started to

611
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 2: have issues with my urinary tracts. So like every month

612
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 2: to every other month, like I was getting infections, Like

613
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 2: I was starting to get even like blood cloths and

614
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 2: blood in my urine, and that was terrifying. A lot

615
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 2: of this I just I was not prepared for.

616
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

617
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I mean, that's the thing that

618
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 1: I like get so mad about. I'm like, of course,

619
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: you weren't prepared for it because you were a child

620
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: and your parents were being manipulated by this system. So

621
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: let me ask you. There's a lot of kids out

622
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: there right now that are in your same situation, that

623
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,479
Speaker 1: are at the beginning and looking at this and they're like, gosh,

624
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: I'm really considering this. You've got Mike DeWine, the governor

625
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: of Ohio, who just said he's not going to ban

626
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: transgender surgeries. If somebody would have stopped that from happening,

627
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: if they would have said, you know what, she has

628
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: to grow up and she can't have the puberty blockers,

629
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: she can't have the surgery, do you think that that

630
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: would have been better for you?

631
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 2: Absolutely? I mean on I feel like on every single level,

632
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 2: I was failed. It should not have even been a

633
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: possibility for me to go on these treatments at the

634
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 2: age that I was. I these doctors failed me, The

635
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 2: state of California failed me. The lack of protective laws

636
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 2: and measures for these kids, wow, is destroying them. It's

637
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 2: destroying their families.

638
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: And that's and I think that's the thing is that people,

639
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 1: whether you are a child or an adult, you are

640
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: getting manipulated by this medical system. So now do you

641
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: have any recourse? Will they will they pay for anything

642
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: to be any treatments to reverse this.

643
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 2: No, there is no guarantee that they will cover that

644
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: they will cover these treatments. As part of my detration.

645
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: Here in California, my home state, all the treatments for

646
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 2: transition from the cot balckers, the hormones, any other medications

647
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 2: that that may that are part of trntion and both

648
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 2: like the the rest surgeries and the general surgeries are

649
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: entirely covered by insurance by law. But there is no

650
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: similar law for detraanstioning. There are there aren't even there's

651
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: not even a standard of care. There are no medical

652
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 2: codes to build for for those of us who decide

653
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 2: to stop transiing. So we have as it's standing now,

654
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 2: d transitioners and those of us who regret tradition and

655
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 2: are trying to find a way out don't really have

656
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,439
Speaker 2: any sort of resource. We don't know what to do.

657
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 2: Our doctors don't even know what to do with us.

658
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: They don't want to. I don't want you to be

659
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 1: out there because you're the example that says they were wrong.

660
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And.

661
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: If you could give one message to this with my

662
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: own doctors, for parents who are going through this, because

663
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: I think that is the group that has to come

664
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: forward and say no, we're not going to let this happen.

665
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: But I know, I mean, we have people in our

666
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: own life that are like, I have no choice because

667
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: of what will happen to my kid. From your perspective,

668
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: knowing who you were at that age, what would you

669
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: tell those parents.

670
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: Do not affirm these feelings at all. Don't even refer

671
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: to your child by their preferred name or pronouns or identity,

672
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 2: because in doing so, you're reinforcing the idea that's they

673
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 2: were born wrong, that there is something wrong with the

674
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 2: way that they're perfectly healthy bodies are. You need to

675
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 2: help them understand that they're beautiful, that they don't have

676
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 2: to fix what's on the outside in order to be

677
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 2: okay on the inside. You are their parents, you're their family,

678
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 2: you know them best, you've raised them up since birth,

679
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 2: and it's up to you to have these hard conversations

680
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 2: with them, as awkward as it might be, about where

681
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: they're where they're getting this idea from that's they have

682
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 2: to reject the sex that they're born as that they

683
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: can change an innate part of them, why they're experienced,

684
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 2: why they're experiencing so much distress around their body, and

685
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: getting to the bottom of that is just it's so important.

686
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you you are so beautiful and I am

687
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: so grateful that you came on to talk about this.

688
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: It's something that I think you know. In our family,

689
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: we try to be really open and I am different

690
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: than my mom was, and I think it's important that

691
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: we change because there is so much our kids have

692
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: access to now that I didn't have access to as

693
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: a kid. And there are so many questions that I

694
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: have to tell you as a mom are so awkward

695
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: to talk about with my kids. But my kids will

696
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: come to me and they'll say things like mom, so

697
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: and so says she would never talk to her mom

698
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: about her crush or she would never talk to her

699
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: mom about this. And you know, I feel okay talking

700
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: to you about that. And I just think that we

701
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: are as society that likes to look I kind of

702
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: block things out and not have the hard discussions and

703
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: just make the quick fix and move on. But you've

704
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: taught us today that we need to talk.

705
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think that a big part of is is

706
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 2: that would become too comfortable, that we value comfort over

707
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 2: pretty much everything. Everything is. I mean compared to like

708
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: just one hundred years ago, even just like fifty or

709
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 2: thirty years ago, we're so much more comfortable. But because

710
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 2: of that, we don't really value going through these these

711
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: trials and these tribulations anymore. And I think that's what's

712
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 2: that that's exactly what we need. That's exactly what these

713
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 2: what children need in order to fully develop and to

714
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 2: functioning adults.

715
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 1: Those are the safe places to go through the hard stuff.

716
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: Those are like you have to go through hard things

717
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: when you're safe, so that when you're out on your own,

718
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: you know what heart is and you can handle it.

719
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 2: Yes, and it's not only these these trials as people,

720
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 2: as adolescents that we have to go through. Puberty is

721
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: something that you can't negotiate. It's I mean, it's not

722
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: just the developments of your reproductive system and your secondary

723
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 2: sex characteristics. It involves every single part, every single system

724
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:32,240
Speaker 2: in your body. And you can't expect someone to fully

725
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 2: develop into an adult physically, sexually, emotionally if they're not

726
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 2: developing as normally right, right.

727
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: You've got to go through that hard and I'm so

728
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: glad you were here to talk about it. Chloe Cole,

729
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on the podcast, and

730
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: thank you and thank you all for joining us on

731
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others, go

732
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 1: to Tutor disonpodcast dot com. You can subscribe right there,

733
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: or head over to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

734
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts and join us next time

735
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: on the Tutor Dixon Podcast to have a blessed day