1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob met Sets podcast. 2 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: My guest today is Robert school Why music Engineer extraordinary. Robert, 3 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: good to have you on the podcast. It is my pleasure, 4 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: Sarah good to be here. Thank you for him writing 5 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: me in very nice Okay, we were scheduling this and 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 1: you said you had to do the CMT Awards. What 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: did that involve? Honestly, it was a very last minute thing. 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: I um, I'm kind of enlisted to mix Kenny Chesney 9 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: this year. He's gonna go out and mix. You're gonna 10 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: do his normal stadium run throughout the year. So we 11 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: were in rehearsals. We were in Nashville and rehearsing for 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: about six weeks total, and then right before we were 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: ready to finish, I mean the day before we were 14 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: ready finished, they said, oh, we're gonna have Kenny closed 15 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: the CMT Awards, so we're gonna go do that. So 16 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: everybody kind of dropped everything they were doing and said, okay, 17 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: let's go get ready to do the c MT Awards. 18 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: So they closed the show and uh, it kind of 19 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: went off without a hitch. It was a nice thing, 20 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: but you know, you kind of get these curve balls 21 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: thrown at you all the time. You know, so no 22 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: problem there, let's go. So how do you interfaces Kenny's 23 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: engineer with the engineer for the show? Yeah, it's it's 24 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 1: an interesting thing, and honestly, every one of the award 25 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: shows are different in how that sort of happens. I mean, 26 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: as you can imagine, every band that comes on any 27 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: of these shows. Uh, you know, has their own people 28 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: that work for them. But you know, depending on what 29 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: city you're working in, you know, it can be heavily 30 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: regulated by the union. Uh you know some Nashville or 31 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: Tennessee is kind of a right to work state, so 32 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily union. But you know, if it's not 33 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: too complex, you know, more often than not, you're just 34 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: gonna be you know, kind of the backstop for the 35 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: engineer that is actually mixing the event to air. You're 36 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: gonna kind of let him know, Okay, this is what's 37 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: going to be hit and you here be ready for this. 38 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: Usually there's you know, there's plenty of run throughs, you know, 39 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: or camera blocking and rehearsal, so you can kind of 40 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: get pretty well set where you feel comfortable with the 41 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: audio that's gonna go to air and then the man's 42 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: has got to get up there and performance, so uh, 43 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: you know, so preparation is kind of the key to 44 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: it sometimes. I mean, I over the last couple of years, 45 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: I've gotten my Union card, after you know, forty years 46 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: in the business, I got a Union card so that 47 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: I could actually be the guy sitting in the chair 48 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: for some of these awards shows where I'm on the 49 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: other end of it, where the band's engineers coming up 50 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: and guiding me through it. So you know, I've kind 51 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: of been on both ends of it. Now. Okay, so 52 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: you're rehearsing with Kenny getting the sound right when he 53 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: actually does an award show. How much of his own 54 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: equipment does he bring and how much of the sound 55 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: from the stage are you responsible for before it feeds 56 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: into the mixer for television? Right? Well, again, I mean, 57 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: I hate to be so abstract about it, but it 58 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: depends on the show. Like you know, obviously, some television 59 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: shows are uh, you know, a pre record or you'll 60 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: record it and then the band will get up there 61 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 1: and mime to it. Uh. Some of them are fully live, 62 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: things like Rock and Wall Hall of Fame induction that 63 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: is a completely live event. You know, everybody's performing at that. 64 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: But you know, kind of depending on the producers you're 65 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: working with or the show format, you know, sometimes it'll 66 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: it might even be a hybrid of that, whereas prerecorded music. 67 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: Band is playing to it, but it's all live vocals, 68 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: you know, So it can be any combination of those things. 69 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: For TV UM TV is a very particular little animal 70 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: there for doing live music for sure. Okay, so if 71 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: you're doing it, do you record the live track and 72 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: you do it before and how do you do that? Yeah? Well, 73 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: I mean luckily, in this day and age, we're, you know, 74 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: with the way we do live sound now, we're we're 75 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: set up to do any kind of recording, any kind 76 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: of multi track recording, any kind of to mix, etcetera. 77 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: So what happened in this particular situation was, you know, 78 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: we were recorded it at rehearsals. I mean it was 79 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: actually the band playing the player run through. You record it, 80 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: then you remix that in a studio and bring in 81 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: what are called stems, which are you know, one volume 82 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: control basically for the drums, one for this guitar player, 83 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: one for the other guitar player. It's kind of pre 84 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: mixed and then that's what goes to air, and then 85 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: they put live vocals right on top of it. So, 86 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: you know, television product and you know they're looking for consistency, predictability. 87 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: You know, they've got to stay on schedule, you know, 88 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: to the second. Really, so everything is really really highly 89 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: scripted for those TV show, especially live TV for sure, 90 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: you know, so they don't they don't allow a lot 91 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: of flexibility there. Really for the most part, they want 92 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: to know exactly what's coming at him and deal with 93 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: that accordingly. Okay, so if Kenny is doing live vocals, 94 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: does he bring his own mic and do you sit 95 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: there with the engineer saying set the board like this, 96 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: this is how he likes it, Again, depending on the show. 97 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: On the vast majority of shows, especially for a lead vocalist, 98 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: they can bring their own microphone. Sometimes it gets into 99 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: a little bit of a problem if they want to 100 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: bring a wireless microphone, because you know, wireless frequency management 101 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: in this day and age is very very challenging, so 102 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 1: you know, you'll you'll be under the strip confines of 103 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: why he has to work within this frequency range for 104 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: the transmitter and the receiver, etcetera. But usually that's that's 105 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: even acceptable, and we can kind of get that going 106 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: and then they can be comfortable with their own mic, 107 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, you know, see a lot of 108 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: artists they have their own mic blinged out and cutting 109 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: jewels and be dazzled and all kinds of other stuff 110 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: on it, so you know, it's part of their brand, 111 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: so to speak. So they'll theyn't want their own mic, 112 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: and and that's fine. I have no problem with that. 113 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: And then yeah, you'll sit there with the engineer and go, Okay, 114 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: these are kind of the characteristics of Kenny's voice you 115 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: need to look for here, you know, blah blah blah, 116 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: and just try to help him be fast and get 117 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: through it. So, okay, you mentioned the Rock and Roll 118 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. You've been the overall engineer for those telecasts, correct. 119 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: My first one was this year. I did the one 120 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: this year after they you know, they postponed for a year. 121 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: I was supposed to do it the year before, but 122 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: then COVID shut it down. So this was my first 123 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: year handling that and it was really cool. I really 124 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: loved it. I hope I hope they asked me back 125 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: to do more of them. Let's start from the beginning. 126 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: How did you get the get One of the um 127 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: production managers for the gig knew me from touring years 128 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: and years ago. We toured together, and you know, just 129 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: reputation carries a lot of weight in that situation, and 130 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: they had an opening and he called me and said, hey, 131 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: are you would you be interested in mixing and rock 132 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: and roll Hall of Fame inductions? I said, heca, yeah, 133 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,679 Speaker 1: let's go. So, uh, you know a lot moving parts 134 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: in that show, Man boy, I mean, it's a it's 135 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: a big it's kind of a monster to wrestle to 136 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: the ground from the musical end of it as well 137 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: as the rest of it. I mean, it's that's a 138 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: big production to do, and especially given that they want 139 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: to do it all as live performance. You know, there's 140 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: there's no there's no miming in that show for sure. 141 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 1: So that that's cool, That makes it. That's attractive to me. 142 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 1: You know, I love being involved in those sort of 143 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: things and taken on that kind of that kind of task. 144 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: So you get the gig? How long before the recording 145 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: date in that situation, Well, because of COVID, I had 146 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: it almost a year and a half before. But in 147 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,239 Speaker 1: a normal situation, you know you're gonna get in listed 148 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: for that gig a good a good six months in 149 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 1: advance because you're doing a lot of work in the 150 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: background on that interfacing with every band that's going to 151 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: get there. What you know, what are you going to bring, 152 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: what instruments are you going to show up with, how 153 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: are we gonna make it, who's going to be the 154 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: house band? And even in that situation, you know you're 155 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: going to have, you know, that grand finale thing where 156 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: you're gonna have multiple bands up on stage playing at 157 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: the same time. So I mean it's you know, from 158 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: an audio point of view and be a little bit 159 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: like hurting cats, you know. I mean there's a lot 160 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: you know, what do we do with three bass players 161 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: during the performance of one song, or you know, six 162 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: guitar players, or you know all of those things. So 163 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: you know, that gets very challenging to make that kind 164 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: of you know, just go and work. So it's a 165 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: there's a lot of planning involved for that, lots and 166 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: lots weeks of planning for Okay, so in the weeks 167 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: of planning, since you're the major domo, to what degree 168 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: are you in charge? To what degree do they bring 169 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: the wrong guy. Tell you to what degree do you 170 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,239 Speaker 1: dictate to them based on television limitations. Yeah, in that situation, 171 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: I'm the mixer on record and the mixer of records, 172 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: so I will be mixing all the events. You know, 173 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: their engineer is welcome to sit down right next to 174 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: me and say, Okay, here's what I need to hear. Here. Uh, 175 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: let's make this a little bit louder lessen. Don't worry 176 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: about that. That's fine. You know, he can help guide 177 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: me through it, for sure, and I welcome that. You know, 178 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: that's that's a very necessary element of that. But at 179 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: the end of the day, you know, I end up 180 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: having to be the one to mix it. I'm going 181 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: to be the one that has to answer for it, 182 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: et cetera. Again, it comes back kind to TV production 183 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: where it's like, I've got to have predictability. I've got 184 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: to I've got to have known entities there. You know, 185 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: as many as many constants and known entities as we 186 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: can create in television production, that's what is wanted. That 187 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: is what is desired by the producers for sure. So 188 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: to get it right, how much rehearsal was there? You 189 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: get quite a few run throughs with each act on 190 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: the day before the show. Um, there is an off 191 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: site rehearsal where you know, they'll have a musical director 192 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: that will meet with the talent and they'll figure out 193 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: whether they're going to sing with the house band or 194 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's going to be a band on its own, 195 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: like you know in that situation. You know, Food Fighters 196 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: was one of the bands that went in, so they 197 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: were going to play on their own for sure, but 198 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: yet you know somebody like uh, you know, Mickey Guyton 199 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: was going to do a piece and she was going 200 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: to sing with the house band. So all of that 201 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: is rehearsed off site. There are rehearsal spaces set up 202 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: away from the show, uh, you know for weeks previous 203 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: where they're rehearsing and working on arrangements. Who's going to 204 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: sing what, etcetera. And then I show up, you know 205 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: really the day before the actual tape and airing, uh, 206 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: and we have a full run through, and you know, 207 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: a lot of time is spent with the artist on 208 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: stage doing camera blocking, you know, like getting all the 209 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: camera shots sorted out, you know, all the cues sorted out, etcetera. 210 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: And they're doing run throughs of it during that that period, 211 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: so you have a lot of time to kind of 212 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: prepare the music and get it hopefully mixed properly for 213 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: the audience. You know, it's kind of a I mean, 214 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: it's kind of nerve wracking mixing for that audience. I 215 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: mean it's a pretty heavy audience sitting there listening to 216 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: you present those those bands, you know, so it'll get 217 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: your attention. So the mix you hear in the room, 218 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: is that the same as the mix that goes over 219 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: the air. It is not. There is always a mixer 220 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: that mixes to air, and there is always a mixer 221 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: that mixes for the room, and just as there's there 222 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: are mixers that mix for the artist on stage as well. 223 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: You know, they're considered monitor mixers. So yeah, there's there's 224 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: multiple mixing formats taking place at the same time, and 225 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 1: it's all recorded in multi racked form. If they want 226 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: to get back and remix it for the post for 227 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: postwork before it actually goes to air, which they almost 228 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: always do there. You want to get it as good 229 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: as you can before it actually is to air, you know, 230 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: So every act brings their own monitor mixers. They can 231 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: absolutely I mean most monitor. Most acts at that level 232 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: and of that caliber have their own monitor engineer as well, 233 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: and same sort of thing. He would walk in and 234 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: work with that monitor engineer to get all their ear 235 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: mixes or their you know, their speaker mixes worked out 236 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: properly for the artists. They're going to know all the 237 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: artists sensitivities and sensibilities at that point. So yeah, you know, 238 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: like I said, we welcome it as like bringing on. Yeah, 239 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: the more info you can give me here, the better 240 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: it's going to get. Just make my my world a 241 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 1: little better here, as opposed to having to guests for 242 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: an hour here and then figure it out at all 243 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: the wrong times. So what's the difference between mixing for 244 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: the room and mixing for television? Very big difference in 245 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: my opinion. I've done both, and you know, you're mixing 246 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: for a very different medium when you're it's really no 247 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: different than mixing the live p a versus mixing for uh, 248 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: you know, for CD or streaming or any of that. 249 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: You know, they are two very very different dynamic ranges. 250 00:10:55,559 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: They're two very very different frequency responses. Uh, there's a 251 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: a very different outlook on you know, volume in those situations. Etcetera. 252 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: So you know, there are guys that have done both 253 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: at the same time. You know, in a pinch, I 254 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: have done both in the same time, and it is 255 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: really really hard to do and make them make them 256 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: both great. You know, usually one suffers a little bit 257 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: because of the other one, you know, in terms of 258 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: you know, mixing life for the room versus mixing for air. 259 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: You know, if you're trying to do both those things 260 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: at the same time, that's hard, that's really really challenging 261 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: to do. So something like the Rock and Roll Hall 262 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: of Fame, which is recorded before. Are you involved in 263 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: post and how much work is done in remixing? I 264 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: can only use this year's experience as the the basis 265 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: of this conversation. I was not involved in post there. 266 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: I don't feel like I need to be really uh, 267 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: you know, the engineers that are that are mixing that 268 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: thing are fantastic. I actually thought this year's show sounded 269 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 1: fantastic over the airwaves, so they did a super John there. 270 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: I'd probably just be in the way if I was there. Okay, 271 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: there's a lot of literature and a lot of knowledge 272 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 1: of what's going on in the recording studio. Oh and automation, etcetera. 273 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: Let's start, what is the board that you use to 274 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: mix lots? Well, you know I'm old enough you and 275 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: you can see on camera here I got enough gray 276 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: hair to back this up. But you know, I've been 277 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: around for a long time watching mixing console development here 278 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: over over forty years. So you know, the capabilities that 279 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: we have in live sound today from mixing consoles are 280 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: just incredible. I mean, we have reached really a really 281 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: high degree of capability and mixing consoles there. Obviously everybody 282 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: now is mixing for the most part in digital uh 283 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: just because of all the capabilities, and it especially for 284 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: things like you know, Rock and Hall of Fame and 285 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: some of these other very complex shows. I don't think 286 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: we could do them an analog. If we did, we 287 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: it would require two or three mixers at the front 288 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: of house to be able to do that. But we 289 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: can do that all in one console now. So the 290 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: capabilities are absolutely fantastic. Um, But I work on a 291 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: Are you looking for a name of a console or 292 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: just sure? Yeah, I I work with uh an Avid 293 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: sxl Avid Technologies and the live sound business. Now. I 294 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: actually helped them get into the live sound business in 295 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: two thousand right around that area where we helped. You know, 296 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: I was kind of enlisted to come in and help 297 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: them conceive a console line that would work in live sound. 298 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: So you know, we kind of came in and uh 299 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: kind of reinvented the wheel a little bit in that world, 300 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: you know, because you know, that was a world that 301 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: was living in, you know, primarily in pro tools and 302 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: video editing, and now all of a sudden we were 303 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: going to jump into live sound. So you know, they 304 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: they've kind of done some things that have really reshaped 305 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: the way people work in that market. Now, So what 306 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: was our inspiration to get into live Soule? Well, I'll 307 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: ask that. I'll answer that question with a question, what 308 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: is anybody's inspiration to build any product? Bob. It's revenue, 309 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, they want to make money. But by the 310 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: same token, they had a gentleman working there named David 311 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: le Bolt. I don't know if you know David and 312 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: know that name. Um I met him in the early eighties. 313 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: We were touring together with an artist named Lori Anderson, Uh, 314 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: kind of doing a world tour. He was the keyboard 315 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: player on the tour. I was one of the mixers 316 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: on the tour and we kind of hit it off 317 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: stop for a second, got in the whole rock and 318 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: roll guy, How do you end up working with a 319 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: performance artists like Lorie Anderson? You know, I don't know, man, 320 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: These gigs just come across the desk, and you know, 321 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: you know, I would be lying to you if I 322 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: said when I got asked to do the gig that 323 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: I knew everything about Lorie Anderson. I didn't. I had 324 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: to go study it and and understand who she was. 325 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: But I'm just telling you. Once I got into that 326 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: camp and worked there a little bit, I was completely 327 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: on fire for it. It was so cool technically, I mean, 328 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: it was performance art, no no doubt about it. I mean, 329 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: and you know, she was really pushing the envelope technically 330 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: of what you could do on stage and and with 331 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: audio there. So it was fascinating to be a part 332 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: of it. And I think that's part of what drove 333 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: this conversation that we're gonna have here, because David was 334 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: really into it and being the keyboard player. I mean, 335 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: it was right when Samplers and all kinds of things, 336 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: we're really just starting to hit the hit the landscape there, 337 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: and so he and I hit it off famously. We 338 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: did the tour, we went our way as at the 339 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: end of the tour and he went off. He played 340 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: with Billy Joel for a long time, and then I 341 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: went on, you know, toured a bunch of metal acts 342 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: and all kinds of other things. And at some point 343 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: he actually went to work for digit Design. At that point, 344 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: you know, who was developing pro Tools at the time. 345 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: This was pretty early on in the development of pro Tools, 346 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: and he kind of drove all that technical development to 347 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: make that a really, really credible product in the studio. 348 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: I mean he he really brought a lot of that 349 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: functionality and made it a credible product as a recording tool. 350 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: And by the time the late nineties, you know, two 351 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: thousand rolled around, I mean pro Tools was pretty ubiquitous 352 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: in the recording studio. I mean it was everywhere. And 353 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: I get this call one day, I'm I mean, I'm 354 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: at my home in Arizona and I get this call 355 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: from David and I haven't spoken to him in twelve years. 356 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: You know, Hey, uh, you know I'm working for digit Design, right, yeah. Yeah, 357 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: we're thinking about putting together a live sound console. We 358 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: want to use plug ins blah blah blah blah. You know, 359 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: do you think we have to do it? I mean, 360 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: this is something we got to do. And I just said, 361 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: absolutely not. Don't do it. Don't do it. We don't 362 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: want that, you know, we don't want pro tools in 363 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: the life sound. But you know, the conversation carried on 364 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: and he kind of convinced me to come up to 365 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: San Francisco and meet with him. So, you know, we 366 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: sat around at dinner table when when night, kind of 367 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: discussing what we thought a digital console should be in 368 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: life sound, and lo and behole. Five years later, you know, 369 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: we released this thing called The d Show from digit Design, 370 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: you know, a company who had zero brand equity, zero footprint, 371 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: and live sound, and yet we took it really to 372 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: be one of the most lauded consoles out there today. 373 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: So you know, that was that was fun to be 374 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: a part of that. That was kind of a new 375 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: take for me, you know, to get in on the 376 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: manufacturing side of it. And you know, I've been working 377 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: with digit Design well Avid now you know since officially 378 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: since two thousand five on console development. That's been a 379 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: lot of fun. How big a market is there are 380 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: you're talking in revenue or just people or you know, 381 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I think of how many acts on the road. No, 382 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: a lot of these things have consumer level video YEO 383 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: editing and all this stuff. When I think of live sound, 384 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: there's a limited universe for how many people are looking 385 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: for something of this capability. Well, it's funny you bring 386 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: this up, because you know, I think this is h 387 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: indicative of how people view live sound to begin with, right, um, 388 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: where they think it's this kind of small thing that's 389 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: off in the corner, and you know, compared to Apple 390 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: or something like that. Of course it is small, right, 391 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: but you know, just put something into your mind, just 392 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: for a second. Now, on a given day, just in 393 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: the United States, how many shows happened. I'm gonna let 394 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: you tell me, because I would say, I don't know. 395 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: I've never been able to research, but it's it's thousands 396 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: upon thousands of certain right, every one of those shows 397 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: has a sound reinforcement need, It has a console need. 398 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: Now buckle that into the concept, and I'll give you 399 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: this number because I know how many. I know this 400 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: one was accurate. From a few years ago. I was 401 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: doing some research on the houses of worship market, which 402 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: was moving into production, you know, in their services. This 403 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: was probably oh, this was probably mid two thousand's, you know, 404 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: and I was kind of coming back to Avid and 405 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: making a player for them. We should examine this market 406 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: that stands up be a very rich market. And I 407 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: kind of brought up the number. I said, you know, 408 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: who knows how many churches there are in in America? 409 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: And you know, I could see that kind of gears turning, 410 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: and they, you know, they really weren't thinking too hard 411 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: about it. I said, today, right today, it's three d 412 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: and thirty five thousand churches in America. Every one of 413 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: them have a sound reinforcement need on Sunday and throughout 414 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: the week. So you know, I mean, when you start 415 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 1: putting the numbers together, all of a sudden you start 416 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: thinking about it's like, well, okay, now let's make that 417 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: a global number. It's pretty big number. It's pretty big 418 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: market out there for this. You just gotta go find it. 419 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: You know. It's just not one of these things that 420 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: are that is in everybody's windshield when you see it. 421 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: You know. Okay, So since you're involved with Avid, how 422 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: simple a product do they make for like houses of worship? 423 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: We were us to play pretty far down into that market. 424 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: But see, I mean even even what you say there, 425 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: I say to you, hey, man, don't think of house 426 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: of worship as being a simple thing. I can I 427 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: could name you sixty churches plus in America that have 428 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: live sound, recording, studio broadcast type facilities that would rival NBC. 429 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: I mean, they're unbelievably technically adept. You know. So you 430 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: know that that whole house of worship market is a 431 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: big thing now, big big deal man. Okay, So in 432 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: terms of the console, yeah, I want to get one 433 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: from Avid. Do they build custom depending on the number 434 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: of channels where you have a certain number of products 435 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 1: and you choose from those products. No, they have a 436 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: I mean again, we in our current product range, we 437 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: don't play very deep down into the market. There are 438 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: other competitors that play at the much much more inexpensive 439 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: end of it. I mean, it's really a professional product 440 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: right now. But we kind of changed the game here 441 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: recent they because we kind I think, you know, I 442 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:02,719 Speaker 1: kind of saw the writing on the wall and how 443 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: this was going to go into the future, and we 444 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: have this thing called I can't believe I'm going to 445 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: talk about this on your podcast. We have this thing 446 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: called unified platform, right, which is basically a menu of products, 447 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: so you can pick how many faders you want on 448 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: your console, how how powerful of an engine you want, 449 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: how many microphone preamps do you want to be able 450 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: to and just kind of ala carte put together a 451 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: huge system or a pretty small system, right, and you 452 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: can kind of piece this together as opposed to making 453 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: a small one, making a not so small one, making 454 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 1: a bigger one, making a bigger, bigger one, etcetera. Because 455 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: the challenge that comes with that in software development is 456 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: you end up having software that is specific to every 457 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: product and you can't keep the development going. In our world, 458 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: we create one piece of software that works on everything, 459 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: all of our hardware interacts and can scale. It was 460 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: the first first time this had ever been done for 461 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: any kind of live sound product, you know, where you 462 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: didn't have an actual product per se. You had pieces 463 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: that you put together into a product. And that allowed 464 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: us to have one string of development with software. We 465 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: developed one piece of software that works on everything we make. Okay, Traditionally, 466 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: software that has a relatively small user base is buggy, 467 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: So how does the software for av it? Well, every 468 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: software has bugs. I will say that, but you know, 469 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: we're also very cognizant of the fact that we work 470 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: in live sound. Right, this is live events. You cannot 471 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: be sitting in front of sixty people and have a 472 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: software bug to take your show down. You can't do it. 473 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: I mean, you just can't be allowed. Now that that said, 474 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 1: no one's perfect, and you know, I've it sounds uh, 475 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: what's the word, kind of contrived and rationalized, but I've 476 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: said to people at times, Okay, look, this is the 477 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: world we live in. Here. It doesn't matter how much 478 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: money do you spend, or how much how many of 479 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: the great people you get to work. Sometimes the space 480 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: shuttle crashes, sometimes the space shuttle blows up. You can 481 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: have the best people in the world, the most money 482 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: in the world working on it, but things happen. The 483 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: thing you have to be able to do is be 484 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: able to respond to the failure. Right, It can't be 485 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: a failure that just well we just got to stop 486 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: the show. You know, you've gotta have you gotta be 487 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: able to respond to a failure and keep the show going. So, 488 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: you know, we we're pretty adepted at doing that kind 489 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: of thing. It it took time to get that. But 490 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: that was one of the calling cards of our our 491 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: product when we first came to market was that it 492 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: was very reliable, I mean really really reliable and you 493 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: could really count on it. So and it sounded great, so, 494 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: you know, added bonus. So you have a lot of 495 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: experience forty years. What kind of problems have you had 496 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: in the middle of the show. Oh man, it's a 497 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: long list. I mean, you know, there's lots of times 498 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: where it you know, it has gone sideways, no doubt 499 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 1: about it. I mean, you know, I mean I've said 500 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: this to artists trying to get them to calm down 501 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 1: a little bit after a mishapp is like, hey, relax, 502 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: I've messed up way bigger shows than yours. Okay, so 503 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: you know, just take it easy. It's gonna be fine here, 504 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: We're gonna get through this, you know. But yeah, you know, 505 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: everything from microphone failures to console failures to p as 506 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: on fire. I mean, you know, I mean, after forty years, 507 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:19,719 Speaker 1: you know, you can feel like you feel like you've 508 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: seen it all. You definitely haven't, but you can feel 509 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 1: like you've seen it all. So let's assume you have 510 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: a misshap did you ever have to end the show 511 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: or do you always have a way to patch it 512 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: back up for extra equipment. I personally have never had 513 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: that happen. I know of shows that have had that 514 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: happen where they haven't been able to continue the show, 515 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: you know. But you know, in fairness, I've seen that 516 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: happen for a litany and reason. It's not just an 517 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: audio failure, you know. So there's all kinds of things 518 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: that could cause that. But you know, Bob, I mean, 519 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: and this may take us down a deeper conversation here. 520 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: That's the beauty of live sound, right, It's the beauty 521 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 1: of it. Everything's at risk. It's at best when it's risky, 522 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: when when things might just go haywire. That's the juice. 523 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: That's the juice everything. When everything is all sort of 524 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: out and predictable and all the bows are tied on 525 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: the knots and everything, you know, that can be pretty 526 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: vanilla at times, that can get kind of stale. I 527 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: actually think the desire to do that is has driven 528 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: us into some bad corners and performance and live event, 529 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, where we try to make it too safe 530 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 1: and too predictable and too perfect. It's like, hey, let it, 531 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: let it ride. Let's go, you know, let's have some 532 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: juice in the room here. Let's get back to that. 533 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: But first let's talk about the console. What makes a 534 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: live console different from a studio console. Yeah, okay, so 535 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: h a live console has to have way more h oh, 536 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: guess we're gonna get we might get geeky here, go 537 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: geek absolutely go geeki has way more summed outputs on it. Like, um, 538 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: let me see how I want to frame this conversation here. So, 539 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: in a studio, you're primarily concerned with either getting individual 540 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: microphones and sources, two tape tracks or in this case 541 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: this time of the world, into pro tools tracks where 542 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: you might have you know, a hundred tracks of instruments, 543 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: and then you are mixing that down to a single 544 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: stereo or five point one or surround. You're mixing that 545 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: down to a single format, a single pair about puts 546 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: out of the console. And the other thing that the 547 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: live sound console does very very well is it allows 548 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: you to do that and provide monitoring to the musicians 549 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: in the studio right where they can hear their mixes, 550 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: they can you know, they can sing, do everything that 551 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: they need to do during the tracking phase. Right, So 552 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: recording consoles are very adept at that. Live consoles, on 553 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: the other hand, really don't aren't thinking necessarily about providing 554 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: you know, you know, mixes back to the musicians at 555 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: the front of house position. I'm talking here, he's really 556 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: just worried about mixing. Period. In this day and age, 557 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: we're multi tracking at the same time, but he's really 558 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: primarily worried about mixing. But he's going to send out 559 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: puts to multiple places, multiple speaker systems, He's going to 560 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: have all kinds of stuff that has to do with 561 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: that p A system, not just a pair of control 562 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: room monitors now, so he's got a whole lot more 563 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: on that console to deal with. And um, there are 564 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 1: different types of automation, Like in the studio, you would 565 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: have what's called run time automation, where we can record 566 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: something into the recorder and then play it back and 567 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: start doing moves on the console. That and the moves 568 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: on the console are also recorded into the d A W. 569 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: And now when I play back, it's not only playing 570 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: bout the audio, but it's playing back all my moves. 571 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: I can adjust those, I can edit those, etcetera. That's 572 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: that's really rare in life. Sound. You don't see that 573 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: very often in life sound unless the act is using 574 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: a lot of playback. If they're relying on almost entirely 575 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: on playback, then you can kind of get that going. 576 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: But more often than not, live sound consoles have what's 577 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: called snapshot automation, right, which is okay, for this song, 578 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: I need to get the console in this state to 579 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: get it ready for me to mix it right, And 580 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: I might need to get it in forty different states 581 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: for forty songs, depending on what instrumentation is being played 582 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: at a time. So really that's kind of one of 583 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: the main kind of junctions of difference there is that 584 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: in the studio we're typically working on one song at 585 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: a time, and live sound we're working on thirty or 586 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: forty songs at a time. Right, We've got to be 587 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: able to prepare to be able to mix thirty or 588 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: forty sometimes really intricate songs and really intricate changes bang 589 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: bang bang bang bang. That's rarely the case in the studio. Okay, 590 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: when you mix on your desk, how many channels do 591 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: you use? As many as I got, I'll use them 592 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: all now, uh you know, I mean, I'll give you 593 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: an example for and really this kind of thing is 594 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: really shifted over time now with digital consoles because we 595 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: have the ability to have way more inputs into the console. 596 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: So for Kenny Chesney right now, which is you know, 597 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: three guitars, bass, drums, keys, five vocalists. I mean, that 598 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: sounds kind of simple, but by the time you really 599 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: get it mapped out and do the things you want 600 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: to do, that's that's approaching a hundred channels, you know, 601 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: probably a hundred and ten, hundred and twelve, uh inputs. Now. 602 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: Part of that is also the way we're recording, Like 603 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: I record probably upwards of probably upwards of fifteen sixteen 604 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: audience mis to be used in post. Like I'll record 605 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: a five point one mic, I'll record spaced microphones for 606 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: the audience, so that when they get it to post, 607 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: if they want to mix it in five point one, 608 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:19,959 Speaker 1: they have the ability if they want to mix it 609 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: in stereo, they can use the other audience mix things 610 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: like that. So channel count can grow, you know, pretty 611 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: dramatically based on the based on your inputs. I mean, 612 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: probably the most famous you know concept of this was 613 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: you know, when I was mixing Rush. I mean that 614 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: was a hundred and eighteen channels for three guys, you know, 615 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: but one entire console was the drum kit, you know, 616 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: I mean that was that was Neil's kit. So you know, 617 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: the input count group pretty pretty big there. Okay. You 618 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: know the more modern recording studio boards have a lot 619 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: of effects built in as opposed to outboard gear. On 620 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: these Avid desks, are there any effects old in or 621 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: any other digital effects? Well, it was kind of our 622 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: calling card at at Avid right because you know, they 623 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: were the first guys to ever really kind of you know, 624 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: I dare I say invent, but you know, they brought 625 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: plug in architecture to the recording market, you know, where 626 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: you could have emulations of all of this really great 627 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: analog gear. And you know, it's kind of when we 628 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: kind of brought that. I was kind of one of 629 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: the things when David was talking about bringing into the 630 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: live sound that was the point where I went, okay, 631 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: now wait a minute, that could be really really something 632 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: here if we could do that in live sound right 633 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: where you could have you know, some of these really 634 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: coveted piece you know, Poltch eques and fair Child limitars, 635 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: these things that you know, you can't you can't even 636 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: buy them. You at the time, you couldn't even buy them. 637 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: But if I could get plug in versions of that 638 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: and use them in live sound, Wow, what a what 639 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: an incredible thing that would be, right? So, yeah, all, 640 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: at least for my shows, nearly I'll say ninety eight 641 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: percent of the processing is inside the console. I don't 642 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: use outboard gear anymore. And it's just such a luxury. 643 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just so spoiled with it now. Where 644 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: we can you know, as opposed to going out and 645 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: spending thirty two dollars for a single channel of fair 646 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: Child compression. Well, I can have an emulation of that, 647 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:16,959 Speaker 1: you know, sitting on the console, and I can use 648 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: as many of them as I want to use if 649 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: I want to use it, do it, you know? And 650 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: is it exactly the same as it of what a 651 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: that fair Child thing is? No, of course not. But 652 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: there's a practicality that has to come with with live sound. 653 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: You know, you wouldn't go out and rent, you know, 654 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars worth of processing to take with 655 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: you on the road. I mean, it's just impractical. Uh. So, 656 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: you know, there's a practicality that comes with digital that 657 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: is really, really enticing for life sound. So I love it. 658 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: I'll never go back, honestly. Okay, so give us the 659 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: old digital compared to analog wrap. Well, it's way more 660 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: complex than anybody makes it. I'm telling you right now. 661 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: It's not a binary argument. You know, which is better 662 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: analog or digital? And I'm famous for saying it, and 663 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: I totally believe it. I need them both. I need 664 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: them both. We can't just say it's either one or 665 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: the other. I need them both. They both have their 666 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: elements that we need to go with it. And I 667 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: think the argument is actually much deeper, deeper than sound quality. 668 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: And I say this about the studio as well, in 669 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: live sound and other elements, because I think what people 670 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: miss a lot of times. I've even used albums as 671 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: the example here. You know, albums compared to CDs, compared 672 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: to streaming. What people miss is the analog experience, right, 673 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: the workflow, you know. I mean, I'm one of those guys. 674 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: As part of why I love albums, I love opening 675 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: that album, I love reading credits, and all of that 676 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: element is part of the experience for me. Well, it's 677 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: very similar in analog recording. You know, where I want 678 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: to see tape rolling. I you know, I want to 679 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: work at a certain pace. You know, analog allows you 680 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: to work at a much slower pace or demands that 681 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: you work at a much slower pace than in digital. 682 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: So you know, there's there's just all kinds of things 683 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: about it, above and beyond sound quality that play into it. 684 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: There's an analog aesthetic you know that works there. But 685 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: you know, with with the digital technologies that are out 686 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: there today, I'm on record to say in this and 687 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: I stand by it, I can take a digital piece 688 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: of technology and I can make it sound more analog 689 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: than analog if you know how to do it. You know, 690 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: you just gotta have the skill to do it, have 691 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: the tools to be able to do it. It's very 692 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: analogous to what we see now with film right where 693 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: I can take the sterileness of video and make it 694 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: look like the oldest film you ever saw in your life. 695 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: You know, all of that possibility is there. And I 696 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: think that argument of analog versus digital and audio is 697 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: very comparable to the argument of film versus video. For 698 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: a storyline, you know, if you watch something in video 699 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: and you watch something in film, something that has film 700 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: look on it or that looks like film. It evokes 701 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: a different response. There's no if stands robuts about it. 702 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: It does. And the same thing applies to analog versus digital. 703 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: Analog evokes a different response. Uts it evokes it because 704 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: we have been programmed to listen to it that way 705 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,959 Speaker 1: for the last sixty or seventy years. We're emotionally tied 706 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: to that analog sound quality, and we want it. We don't. 707 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: We didn't realize we wanted it until it was taken 708 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: away and I was like, oh, wait a minute, that 709 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: that's not what we like. Let's have some of that back. 710 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: But you know, so analog is really really important. But 711 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: what I trade away all the digital capability just to 712 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: have an analog signal path for life sound? I would not. 713 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: I would not just staying on analog digital for a second. 714 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: There are some engineers say that what you're really hearing 715 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: in the analog is distortion. And then there's the experience 716 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,719 Speaker 1: of putting on some c ds in some vinyl records 717 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: and you feel a warmth in the analog that you 718 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: don't feel on the c D. Tell us, from a 719 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: professional viewpoint, what's going on there? It is distortion. It 720 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: is it's very very well managed sometimes poorly managed distortions, 721 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: but it is what we love about it, right, and 722 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: most people don't realize it. And I'll just at risk 723 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: of letting the cat out of the bag. You would be, 724 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: I think as a consumer, would be mortified, maybe is 725 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,399 Speaker 1: the right word to understand and watch and see how 726 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: much distortion is intentionally injected into music today to get 727 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: it to have the vibe that it had thirty or 728 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: forty years ago. I mean, it's it's breathtaking how much 729 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 1: it is, you know. I mean, it's going to get 730 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: maybe even drive us into this conversation of what is 731 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: good audio, what is great audio? I mean, it's such 732 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: an open ended palette now, especially in music. Music is 733 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: such a unique animal for this discussion, you know. But 734 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: you know every sense Rocket eighty eight and Ike Turner 735 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: and Jackie brett Ling, brett Ling, you know, we've had 736 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: distortion in play, intentional distortion in play because it evokes 737 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: an emotional response. You know, it has a statement to it. 738 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: Think about what rap and hip hop music would have 739 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: been like in the eighties if it wouldn't have come 740 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: from the boom box era, which was just horribly distorted audio, 741 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: But that gave it the sense of being urban, right, 742 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: that was the urban signature. That was the thing. This 743 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: came from the street, right, It didn't come from a big, 744 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: glossy studio. You know. There's all these sonic signatures and 745 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: little tip offs to let you know where that music 746 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: came from. You know, I mean so many, so many 747 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: artists don't want to look shiny, you know, because there's 748 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: no street cred in it from an audio perspective, I'm 749 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: talking right. Okay, Let's assume an act is going on 750 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: the road. Most of these acts, other than the reamplifiers 751 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: and their guitars and through other instruments, rent the equipment, 752 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: you know, in arena level rock at these big tours, 753 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: who owns the actual avid board? The sound company. So 754 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: there's an entire sound company industry now that's been rocking 755 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: and rolling and going strong now for you know, thirty 756 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: forty plus years now. I mean it started out certainly 757 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: as a cottage industry. I mean when I got into 758 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: the business, and but as a fledgling I mean, we 759 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 1: were only ten years rood from Woodstock at that point. 760 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: You know, it was amazing, you know, I was looking 761 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: at a post on Facebook the other day for cal 762 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: Jam Too, which I remember seeing as a kid, and 763 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 1: you know, I had this kind of lightbulb moment. I 764 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: was like, Okay, look at what's going on here technically 765 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,879 Speaker 1: at this thing. This is only about eight or nine 766 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: years removed from Woodstock. I mean, look how far this 767 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 1: industry has come just in that seven eight nine years, 768 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: you know. And that was all just sole proprietorship people 769 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,399 Speaker 1: just pulling it together and getting together. You know. It's 770 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,439 Speaker 1: when we really started to see the emergence of JB 771 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,400 Speaker 1: L you know, as a professional audio company, because they 772 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 1: provided a lot of the speaker system for that that show. 773 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: You know, Meyer Sound was really really influential in in 774 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: in the growth in the development of what that industry 775 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: has become. So to kind of circle all the way 776 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: back to your question, Yeah, there's a sound company that 777 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: would provide all of that technology, all the speaker technology, 778 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: all the mixing technology, etcetera. To the act. The act 779 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: would lea set out for the the course of the tour, 780 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: and then when they're done, they move on to another 781 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 1: another act. You know. Okay, so do you personally own 782 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 1: any equipment that you might use on the road. Yeah, yeah, 783 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,399 Speaker 1: I mean I own microphones that I use. I mean, 784 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: I used to own my own consoles, and and there 785 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: are artists are there are mixers out there that do 786 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,240 Speaker 1: own their own consoles and still use them out there today. 787 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: I used to own a lot of my own effects processing. 788 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I was one of the one of the 789 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: earlier guys in the eighties that was taking a lot 790 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: of studio processing out on the road and trying to 791 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: make that happen out there. You know, we were kind 792 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: of trying to make that transition. I mean, there was 793 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: a period of time in the late eighties where you know, 794 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: some of the front of house positions, probably mine included, 795 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: would arrivaled most studios, especially when I was mixing Rush 796 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,359 Speaker 1: or or Deaf Leopard for sure. You know, those were 797 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:46,240 Speaker 1: big front of house positions that were very technically complex positions. Okay, 798 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: so let's assume you get hired for an act. Let's 799 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: leave Chestney out because he plays stadiums, which is a 800 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 1: whole another ball game. We'll get to that. That's adult 801 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: audio there. Man, that's a whole another thing. That's right. Okay, 802 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: So let's just talk and arena act. You get hired 803 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 1: to do the gig, this is the first time you 804 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: work with the act Do you go and hire all 805 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: the equipment? It depends. I certainly would could. I mean, 806 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 1: if they've brought me into the gig, then I want 807 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: to have influence on what gear we're going to use. Yeah, 808 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: So you know, obviously there are fine there are accountants 809 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 1: that get involved in budgets that have to be honored, etcetera. 810 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: But you know, there's certainly preferences. I certainly have preferences 811 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: of speaker systems and companies to work with out there. 812 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: For sure, you're gonna put me on the spot like that. 813 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: Certainly with the speakers, people are always interested in that. Yeah, well, 814 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 1: speaker and speaker development, man has really come a long way. Man, 815 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: hearing about about the last twenty five years. Man, there's 816 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: been some phenomenal advancement and speaker technology. But you know, 817 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: I mean there's the big companies out there. I'm working 818 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: with Claire Brothers for Kenny Chesney, which is you know, 819 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: I'm Claire Brothers is the undisputed champ of sound companies. 820 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 1: They are the biggest one by far. They probably they 821 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,839 Speaker 1: probably address sixty the clients out there in the world. 822 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 1: To day. I've used sound image with great effect there 823 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,800 Speaker 1: out of Southern California down an Escondido. Really great company. 824 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,439 Speaker 1: Who else? I mean, there's so many good companies going now. Okay, 825 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: so forget the intermediaries. You're dealing with a company. You're 826 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: on an Aerweena tour forty dates. What do you need? 827 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: Do I gotta know what kind of music we're trying 828 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 1: to present? You gotta know? You know, are we going 829 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: to make something that's freaking loud and impactful? Here? Are 830 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: we looking for intelligibility? What is the act? Is it 831 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: adell or is it a Metallica? They're going to require 832 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: very very different PA systems and very different capabilities for 833 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: that room. So you know, I've got to know that first, 834 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: I've got to understand it musically, what what what the 835 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: fans are gonna expect there, And then you do a 836 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: design that you have to kind of in these in 837 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,360 Speaker 1: this day and age, you have to fit into lighting 838 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: and video production because you're your third in line. Now. 839 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: You know, the first things that get done our video 840 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: production and lighting production, and then we try to squeeze 841 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 1: in some sound in there and get it in hopefully 842 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: in the right positions to address the geometry in the room. 843 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,720 Speaker 1: So all of that comes in place very complex formula 844 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: of Okay, if it's going to need to be this, 845 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,919 Speaker 1: it's going to cost this much, it's got to fit 846 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: in here. How does it impact the production schedule? You know, 847 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: are we going to have time to put it up? 848 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: And you know, all of that gets put into a 849 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 1: hat and shake it up and hopefully come out with 850 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: the answer there. You know, you work very closely with 851 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: you know, the production team, meaning the lighting designer, the 852 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 1: video designer, and the production manager, and then the accountants 853 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: come in at some point and tell you that's going 854 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: to cost way too much and we can't do it. Okay, 855 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: you're interested most and getting the best sound. Do you 856 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 1: ever butt heads with these people and say, well, I 857 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,359 Speaker 1: hear what you're You know, with the classic thing, you know, 858 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: couples have a living room and one of the members 859 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: of the couple doesn't want anything to show, and then 860 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: the other person's well, I want the big speakers and 861 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 1: all the equipment that lights up. So these are different 862 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,439 Speaker 1: considerations video and audio. So to what degree is there 863 00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: a battle? That's a strong term, but every every here, 864 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: I mean it's a knockdown, drag out fight. I'm not 865 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,240 Speaker 1: exaggerating it. I mean it's a battle every tour, honestly, 866 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,399 Speaker 1: go into stadiums, it actually gets a little easier because 867 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,399 Speaker 1: the you know, the places where you're gonna be able 868 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: to do things in the structure that's going to hold 869 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: it is a little more forgiving than what you're going 870 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: to do in an arena. But you know, you look 871 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: at the complexity of some of these arena shows now 872 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 1: and trying to get speaker systems fit into that that 873 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 1: can actually properly address the geometry and make it where 874 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,479 Speaker 1: everybody can actually hear what's going on. It's in the way, 875 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: it's in the way. You know, it's hanging in front 876 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: of the video screen, right, so it's gotta move, we 877 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: gotta go higher, whatever we gotta do, you know what 878 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: I mean. There's all kinds of parameters that get put 879 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 1: into play there to make that work, especially especially so 880 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: for television. I mean Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 881 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: is a great example of that, where you know, the 882 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: camera shot is the whole thing. There can't be p 883 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: a hanging down in the camera shot. You've got to 884 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: have a p A system that can go high, aim low, 885 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 1: cover the geometry etcetera. You know, it's there's a lot 886 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: of a lot of moving parts there, like I said, 887 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: that have to get into play. So I mean, I 888 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,360 Speaker 1: hate to give you the stock answer. Well, it depends, 889 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 1: but it depends on what are we doing TV. I'm 890 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 1: sure every situation is you need. But you know, videos 891 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: king right now, you know, I mean, it gets all 892 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 1: the consideration right now. So let's just go to the extremes. 893 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 1: Adele and Metallica. Literally, what brand of speaker would you 894 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: want to use and what brand of amplifier? Well, I 895 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 1: don't know, is the honest answer. I mean I have 896 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 1: ones that I would lean towards. I mean, you know, 897 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 1: there are some of these very very dsp driven, very 898 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: accurate speaker systems that can cover i mean to the seat. 899 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: You know, you can build in these these polar patterns 900 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: for these PA systems where you know the p A 901 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,560 Speaker 1: is the sound from the p A is literally not 902 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,720 Speaker 1: hitting any of the walls, it's only hitting the seats. 903 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 1: So you know, from for Adele, I would choose something 904 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,359 Speaker 1: that had that capability. For Metallica, you know, you want 905 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,480 Speaker 1: something that has a little bit of that capability for sure. 906 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 1: You want to be able to be precise with it. 907 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,239 Speaker 1: But man, it's got to have some balls to it. 908 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's going to have to have some oomph 909 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: to it because there's gonna be a volume element to that, 910 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,680 Speaker 1: and a punch element to that and impact element to that. 911 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 1: That is absolutely vital for the show to succeed. Right 912 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 1: whereas Adele that's gonna be there's gonna be some elegance 913 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 1: to that, there's going to the vocal is going to 914 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,839 Speaker 1: be It's going to be all about the vocal there. Really, 915 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,880 Speaker 1: how do I get this beautiful, tall, elegant, highly addictive 916 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: vocal that every person in the room can understand every 917 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: word that she sinks? You know? Two different really agendas 918 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,959 Speaker 1: there to really two different agendas there. Let's talk about 919 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 1: the speakers. Are these brands consumers would be familiar with 920 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 1: and probably not now they're really I mean short of 921 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,439 Speaker 1: you know, JB. L. I'm I'm sure that's ubiquitous enough 922 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 1: that everybody would know it. But you know these now 923 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:52,320 Speaker 1: these are very uh, you know, brands that are focused 924 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: really entirely on professional sound. Not to say that they 925 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: don't go down into the consumer market with some of 926 00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,240 Speaker 1: their products, but their primary focuses on and a couple 927 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 1: of the names us for the record uh AL Acoustics, 928 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: which is a French company that kind of they really 929 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: are responsible for kind of changing the whole game and 930 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:09,800 Speaker 1: going getting us to go to this thing called line 931 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 1: Source where you here's you see speakers hanging in a 932 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: straight line uh E, A, W D and B Audio 933 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: Audio Technique U JB L. Of course, you know those 934 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,359 Speaker 1: are probably the big big players in it right now. 935 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,239 Speaker 1: Claire Claire Brothers makes their own proprietary boxes called Cohesion, 936 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: which were very, very good. So let's talk about what 937 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: was the breakthrough exactly of the French company. It's called 938 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: line Source. So if you have a memory of looking 939 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 1: back on shows and you paid any attention to speaker 940 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:46,399 Speaker 1: systems in the past up until about let's call it, 941 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to call it the mid to late nineties, 942 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,280 Speaker 1: was when we really started to see the shift. Previous 943 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: to that, you saw a lot of speaker systems hanging 944 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,400 Speaker 1: in a horizontal way. We kind of called it a 945 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 1: golf ball. Look right where you would see they would 946 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: be four or five cab it's deep, and then they 947 00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 1: would kind of wrap around the corner. You know, you 948 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: would see this just this I mean it was almost 949 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,840 Speaker 1: like looking at a whole bunch of little cabinets that 950 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,440 Speaker 1: made it look like one big speaker cabinet. And we 951 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,080 Speaker 1: generally refer to that as a horizontally arrayed p A system. 952 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: You know, we're worried about it going in this direction. Now, 953 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 1: the downside of the horizontally p A system was that 954 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 1: it was very hard to cover steep geometry. If you 955 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,960 Speaker 1: had to cover very high, like you had seats that 956 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,279 Speaker 1: were steep or high, you didn't have enough angling in 957 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 1: that horizontal p A to be able to get it 958 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: up there and and direct energy up there. It was 959 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:38,120 Speaker 1: very difficult to do, especially for a hanging p A system. 960 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 1: It was if it was a stacked p A system, 961 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,640 Speaker 1: you could kind of get it, but still that that 962 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,880 Speaker 1: had its own limitations as well. So in the nineties, uh, 963 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,879 Speaker 1: we had some development in speaker driver technology that came 964 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,880 Speaker 1: to play, and it allowed for us to do vertical 965 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 1: hanging of these speaker systems and and then these vertical 966 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 1: line sources. What's really critical to making it work is 967 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:06,400 Speaker 1: the spacing between the speaker components. So you know, if 968 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,719 Speaker 1: you took the grill cloth off of one of these 969 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: line source speaker systems. You would see too low frequency devices, 970 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,080 Speaker 1: and then you would see some mid frequency devices, and 971 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:15,720 Speaker 1: then right in the center you would see a whole 972 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:20,439 Speaker 1: line of high frequency devices. And that high frequency line 973 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,400 Speaker 1: of devices might be thirty ft tall. Right, But what 974 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:28,279 Speaker 1: that allows for is that mathematically that line of speakers 975 00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,360 Speaker 1: is working as one speaker. To the ear, it appears 976 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,800 Speaker 1: to be one speaker. That's the goal there. Now the 977 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 1: challenge with it is how do I then how do 978 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 1: I expand horizontal coverage? How do I get coverage around 979 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:42,839 Speaker 1: the corner where you have to hang more lines around there? 980 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,080 Speaker 1: So if you were to go to a show today 981 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 1: and see it, you would probably see on either side 982 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,839 Speaker 1: of the stage, you know probably two maybe three line sources. 983 00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 1: And the other big advantage of line sources is very 984 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,400 Speaker 1: easy to cover the vertical geometry. If I need to 985 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: cover high, I need to cover a steep Remember I 986 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,200 Speaker 1: talked about TELEVI in production when we might want to 987 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 1: fly high but then shoot audio straight down. I can 988 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,960 Speaker 1: do that with a line source very effectively. Right, So 989 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,320 Speaker 1: that that the game really changed in the late nineties 990 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,600 Speaker 1: once those came to bear and we were able to 991 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,640 Speaker 1: amplify and have these components, these smaller components that could 992 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: handle the amount of power and have the amount of 993 00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: output available to them. Then line source became the thing. 994 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,840 Speaker 1: And unlike any time I've ever seen in the history 995 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,400 Speaker 1: of sound reinforcement, the entire industry just kind of stopped 996 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,400 Speaker 1: on a dime and went, yep, we're gonna go a 997 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,279 Speaker 1: line source. Here we go. And you know, from that 998 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,880 Speaker 1: point on you hardly saw any horizontally ran pas for 999 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,080 Speaker 1: a long time. And what are the amplifiers that are used? Man, 1000 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:41,279 Speaker 1: super super high power networkable amplifiers now where we can 1001 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,920 Speaker 1: get audio to them off of an audio network, but 1002 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: you know, thousands and thousands of what's available to you 1003 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,600 Speaker 1: because headroom is what you want there. You want to 1004 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,040 Speaker 1: be able to do really push things up and not 1005 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: have it distort and and blow up the speaker component. 1006 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,279 Speaker 1: And what are the brands used in the amplifers. Most 1007 00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,439 Speaker 1: of the companies are making their own amplifiers at this point. 1008 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 1: Alocoustic makes its own amplifiers. DNB Audio Technique makes their 1009 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:08,000 Speaker 1: own amplifiers. Uh, you know, Crown Amplifiers works in conjunction 1010 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,680 Speaker 1: with J B. L Um who else There's I'm probably 1011 00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,400 Speaker 1: missing a ton of them here U E. A W 1012 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 1: has their own amplifier package made by power Soft. I 1013 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 1: believe this Powersoft may and it might have moved to 1014 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 1: a different amplifier now for the and your riggs. But 1015 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,440 Speaker 1: you know it's all in house, and you know they're 1016 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,480 Speaker 1: making their owns now that you wouldn't necessarily go out 1017 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,439 Speaker 1: and buy them off the shelf there. It's all part 1018 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,320 Speaker 1: of the system design now. So if you go to 1019 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,759 Speaker 1: Claire Brothers, they have all of this stuff and you 1020 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,920 Speaker 1: pick and choose what you want. Yeah, especially Claire Brothers 1021 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:37,480 Speaker 1: in in this day and age, they used to be 1022 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:39,799 Speaker 1: really they've kind of changed their model now. They used 1023 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,440 Speaker 1: to be a proprietary company where you know, in the 1024 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,359 Speaker 1: early eighties they were one of the few companies, one 1025 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,600 Speaker 1: of one of two or three companies really, Claire Brothers, 1026 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,600 Speaker 1: Shoko I probably put Britannia Row in there, maybe Concert 1027 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,399 Speaker 1: Sound over in Europe in there that we're making their 1028 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,200 Speaker 1: own boxes because the manufacturers weren't really able to manufacturer 1029 00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:00,319 Speaker 1: a box that could could do that. Yet Alter Sound 1030 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,640 Speaker 1: out of San Rafel was great. You know, that was 1031 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,839 Speaker 1: the Grateful Sound company for the longest period of time. 1032 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,120 Speaker 1: But they you know, they were they just decided, Hey, 1033 00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna make our own boxes, make our own speaker systems, 1034 00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,280 Speaker 1: you know like that. You went to that company because 1035 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,640 Speaker 1: they had the technology and the technical infrastructure to go 1036 00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,640 Speaker 1: out and do these huge tours at the time, you know, 1037 00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,160 Speaker 1: I mean I think back to show's you know, like 1038 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,360 Speaker 1: Live Aid and you know, the the first rock and 1039 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,239 Speaker 1: rios down in you know, in South American stuff. I mean, 1040 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:29,680 Speaker 1: there was only a couple of companies that could have 1041 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:33,359 Speaker 1: even possibly pulled that off, you know, and today there's 1042 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,399 Speaker 1: you know, you can you can go out and buy 1043 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,120 Speaker 1: a concert sound system off the shelf and call yourself 1044 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,359 Speaker 1: a sound company. You know. So I am old enough 1045 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:46,560 Speaker 1: to remember two things. One, when the venue provided the 1046 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 1: sound reinforcement to that the only thing going through the 1047 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,200 Speaker 1: p A was the vocal. Yeah. So at this point 1048 00:49:54,840 --> 00:50:00,200 Speaker 1: is every instrument might, every amplifier might what's going I'm 1049 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,440 Speaker 1: there for rock and pop music, yeah, absolutely every I 1050 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,880 Speaker 1: mean it's very much like studio mixing at the console, 1051 00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,160 Speaker 1: and you're just bringing it to a big p A system. Now, 1052 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:10,600 Speaker 1: if you if you go all the way down into 1053 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,359 Speaker 1: something like you know, if you get to jazz things 1054 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,239 Speaker 1: like that, then then you're really you're not necessarily not 1055 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,480 Speaker 1: necessarily putting everything in the p A system, you know, 1056 00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,040 Speaker 1: you're you're back to what we would kind of label 1057 00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,759 Speaker 1: a sound reinforcement methodology there right where, Okay, let me 1058 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,640 Speaker 1: take what I can hear on the stage and then 1059 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:29,840 Speaker 1: just fill in the holes with the p A you know, 1060 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,880 Speaker 1: and try to make it very organic feeling. You know, 1061 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,040 Speaker 1: you don't, especially for things like symphony and pops. You know, 1062 00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,560 Speaker 1: you don't really want to experience p A system there. 1063 00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,600 Speaker 1: You know, you want it to be more like I'm 1064 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,359 Speaker 1: experiencing the orchestra here, right, So, even though you might 1065 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,600 Speaker 1: have all the inputs and all the mike stations of 1066 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,960 Speaker 1: an orchestra get up, you really don't want it to 1067 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 1: be a parent that it's coming out of a p 1068 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,320 Speaker 1: A system that wants to be very invisible for the listener. 1069 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,600 Speaker 1: There so different sensibilities depending on the music for sure. 1070 00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,520 Speaker 1: So being like Petty you worked with for forty years, 1071 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,640 Speaker 1: or Kenny Chestney, how many mikes do you need? Well, 1072 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,120 Speaker 1: how many instruments you got, you know, and and how 1073 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,000 Speaker 1: many like some of the guitar players you know they 1074 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,320 Speaker 1: may play like well, Kenny Greenberg has got two different 1075 00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,320 Speaker 1: amplifier packages that he uses. John's got a couple of 1076 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,919 Speaker 1: different amplifier packages. Uh. You know, Uh, Danny, the stage 1077 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,160 Speaker 1: left guitar player, is working completely on amplifier emulation. He's 1078 00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,759 Speaker 1: using these things called fractals, which are no live amplifiers. 1079 00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,680 Speaker 1: It's it's all digital. But it sounds fantastic, you know. 1080 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,000 Speaker 1: I mean they work really really good. So you need 1081 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,440 Speaker 1: something for every instrument. You know, on the drums, I've 1082 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,640 Speaker 1: probably got in there fre just you know, probably upwards 1083 00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,640 Speaker 1: of sixteen eighteen microphones in play microphone channels on the drums. 1084 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,560 Speaker 1: So it just depends on how many, how many inputs 1085 00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:48,680 Speaker 1: you got up there, how many instruments you got up there. Okay, 1086 00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,600 Speaker 1: once you showed up in the rehearsal room with Chestney, 1087 00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,640 Speaker 1: how long did you take you to get miked and ready? 1088 00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,320 Speaker 1: Just miked and ready? You know, we were ready the 1089 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,880 Speaker 1: first day. And again it kind of comes out of preparation, right, 1090 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:02,920 Speaker 1: I mean, before I ever got there. I mean, this 1091 00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,080 Speaker 1: is kind of where we're adding sound reinforcement these days. 1092 00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,680 Speaker 1: You know, this is uh, you know, that whole concept 1093 00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,840 Speaker 1: of virtual sound check that is in play now. You know, 1094 00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,920 Speaker 1: I took they had recorded tracks from the twenty eighteen 1095 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,440 Speaker 1: tour En Tour, you know, pro tools sessions that were 1096 00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,120 Speaker 1: recorded right off the live sound console. I brought them 1097 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:21,759 Speaker 1: into my place here. I have console and p A 1098 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,279 Speaker 1: system set up at my place here. I brought that 1099 00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,680 Speaker 1: in and I'm mixed that show in preparation of showing 1100 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,800 Speaker 1: up for rehearsals. And when I showed up my console, 1101 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,200 Speaker 1: a lot of it was already set and ready to go. 1102 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,279 Speaker 1: Is just plug in the microphones and bring in the band, 1103 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,000 Speaker 1: let's go. You know. So, you know, the the amount 1104 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,920 Speaker 1: that you can prepare now today compared to what what 1105 00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,279 Speaker 1: it was, you know, twenty years ago, twenty plus years ago, 1106 00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:44,680 Speaker 1: is dramatic now, I mean, I can, I can come in. 1107 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:46,400 Speaker 1: I did the same thing with Rock and Roll Hall 1108 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:47,960 Speaker 1: of Fame, even though I didn't have the bands there. 1109 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:50,280 Speaker 1: You know, I could use tracks to kind of prepare 1110 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,040 Speaker 1: the console to get ready for that show, and when 1111 00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,200 Speaker 1: the bands came in, I was way way far ahead 1112 00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:56,759 Speaker 1: of the game. You know. Okay, if you were a 1113 00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,920 Speaker 1: regular recording studio, setting up mike is getting the sound 1114 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,399 Speaker 1: can sometimes take a week. So in this particular case, 1115 00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,359 Speaker 1: are you literally going on stage and setting up all 1116 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,400 Speaker 1: the mics. Well, I have somebody do it, but I 1117 00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:13,120 Speaker 1: I have total providence over where those microphones get placed. 1118 00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,680 Speaker 1: Like you know, I even have some alignment procedures, some 1119 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,800 Speaker 1: very specific alignment procedures that are used on certain microphones 1120 00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:21,759 Speaker 1: to get them exactly in the position I want them 1121 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,759 Speaker 1: to be in. And you know that part of it 1122 00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:25,840 Speaker 1: is really not that different from the studio. That that 1123 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:27,439 Speaker 1: piece of it is very similar to what I would 1124 00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,440 Speaker 1: do in the studio as well. You know where we're 1125 00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,200 Speaker 1: working on microphone choice, we're working on microphone placement. We're 1126 00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,280 Speaker 1: working on getting the right instrument into the right amplifier 1127 00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:38,520 Speaker 1: to get the right sound. Is that the pickups we want, 1128 00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,120 Speaker 1: is that the strings we want? Is that the guitar 1129 00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,000 Speaker 1: we want to use? For that part. I'm involved in 1130 00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,800 Speaker 1: all of that with musicians more often than not, in 1131 00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,200 Speaker 1: picking what drumheads are we going to use? Okay, are 1132 00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,279 Speaker 1: these how many PLA shells? Is this? Is that what 1133 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna do there? Okay? Yeah, alright, okay, yeah, I'm 1134 00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,360 Speaker 1: good with that. On the kit, what symbols are you 1135 00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,200 Speaker 1: using and using heavy light? All of that plays into 1136 00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,160 Speaker 1: it because you're gonna mix it. You know, you're at 1137 00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:00,880 Speaker 1: the end of the day, you're out of the responsible 1138 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,920 Speaker 1: for what it's gonna sound like. So, you know, the 1139 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,160 Speaker 1: guys that I've worked with in my life. I'm not 1140 00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,439 Speaker 1: necessarily preaching that every guy needs to work this way, 1141 00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:11,920 Speaker 1: but I know for the guys that I've worked with 1142 00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,560 Speaker 1: and been around in my life and that that mentored me. 1143 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,120 Speaker 1: I picked up on it very quickly that the guys 1144 00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:21,040 Speaker 1: that knew audio the best didn't necessarily know how to 1145 00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,400 Speaker 1: operate the console the best, but they knew how to 1146 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,399 Speaker 1: get the sounds. They knew. Okay, you want that guitar sound. 1147 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,400 Speaker 1: I need that guitar with that pickup and those strings 1148 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,160 Speaker 1: on it into that amplifier through those speakers, and we're 1149 00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,040 Speaker 1: going to use one of these two microphones here, and 1150 00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,520 Speaker 1: that's probably going to do it. You know. That's the 1151 00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,120 Speaker 1: things they knew. And then once you get to to 1152 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,520 Speaker 1: the console and it's just about mixing the thing, you know, 1153 00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just about getting it together. Okay, tell 1154 00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:46,920 Speaker 1: us about virtual sound check. Yeah, that's kind of my 1155 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,400 Speaker 1: pride and joy there. You know, I've been kind of 1156 00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,520 Speaker 1: credited as you know, developing this whole concept and and 1157 00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,200 Speaker 1: bringing it to bear. Um. I mean I'll give you 1158 00:54:56,239 --> 00:55:00,680 Speaker 1: the reader's digest version of the story. So you know, 1159 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:02,759 Speaker 1: one of the things, one of the challenges we have 1160 00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,200 Speaker 1: in life sound previous to virtual sound check is the 1161 00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,319 Speaker 1: only time you, as the mixer, ever get to work 1162 00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:14,600 Speaker 1: on the audio like practice, work on sounds, make changes, experiment. 1163 00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:17,120 Speaker 1: The only time you ever get to do that is 1164 00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:20,080 Speaker 1: when the band is on stage or the audiences in 1165 00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,880 Speaker 1: the room, and the band is on stage, so you 1166 00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,160 Speaker 1: know it. It makes it where there was a whole 1167 00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,400 Speaker 1: lot of guesswork. I mean, you could kind of hear 1168 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,960 Speaker 1: instruments and stuff, but you couldn't really mix anything until 1169 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,759 Speaker 1: the band was on stage and playing. And you know, 1170 00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,960 Speaker 1: to ask a band who's getting ready to a concert, Hey, 1171 00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,040 Speaker 1: I need you to do this song about ten times 1172 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,680 Speaker 1: for me to get it ready, It's not gonna happen. 1173 00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,600 Speaker 1: It's not going to happen. So you know the reality 1174 00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:49,320 Speaker 1: of what happened with that, I mean, there's two realities, 1175 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,920 Speaker 1: stark realities that happen as results of that. One is 1176 00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,759 Speaker 1: previous to virtual sound check. You were gonna learn the 1177 00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:02,400 Speaker 1: show on the road during the SARTs. The show that 1178 00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,719 Speaker 1: I mixed two weeks from the first date is going 1179 00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,719 Speaker 1: to be infinitely better than the first show because I'm 1180 00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,880 Speaker 1: still learning it. I'm still understanding what to do on 1181 00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,440 Speaker 1: the console still. You know, any experiments I gotta do, 1182 00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:15,359 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to do showtime and figure it out 1183 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,200 Speaker 1: and get it going right, so that happens over course 1184 00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,120 Speaker 1: of time. Now, add to that, you may have people 1185 00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:25,200 Speaker 1: that are very inexperienced mixers in life sound. They're gonna 1186 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,120 Speaker 1: learn their craft in front of the audience. It's going 1187 00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,799 Speaker 1: to happen over time. I mean, I think it's part 1188 00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:33,800 Speaker 1: of why live sound kind of got a got a 1189 00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,200 Speaker 1: bad rap over a period of time and is considered 1190 00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,200 Speaker 1: not very good because you have a lot of very 1191 00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,200 Speaker 1: inexperienced people in there, you know. I mean, you know, 1192 00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,640 Speaker 1: when I've taught mixing clinics and you know, things like that, 1193 00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:46,560 Speaker 1: I've always tried to get across people. Look, you want 1194 00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,400 Speaker 1: to learn how to mix, Get in the studio and 1195 00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,279 Speaker 1: learn how to mix when there's nothing at stake, right, 1196 00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,080 Speaker 1: get in there and learn how to do all the 1197 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,719 Speaker 1: ear training and learn all the audio cues that you 1198 00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:58,400 Speaker 1: need to learn to get out and then do it 1199 00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,239 Speaker 1: under pressure live. You don't come out live and just 1200 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,719 Speaker 1: learn the craft over five or six years of really 1201 00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,000 Speaker 1: bad mixing right and put the audience through it. So 1202 00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:09,239 Speaker 1: all of this to say, we needed another way to 1203 00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,480 Speaker 1: do this right, And this really all came to bear. 1204 00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,480 Speaker 1: You know, it's all down to timing of technologies. So 1205 00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:20,560 Speaker 1: I got invited into mixed Petty live around Wildflowers. They 1206 00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:22,360 Speaker 1: had just finished Wildflowers and we were going to do 1207 00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:27,160 Speaker 1: the the Dogs with Wings tour. This was well, as 1208 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,520 Speaker 1: luck would have it. I'll give the little sidebar here, 1209 00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,360 Speaker 1: as luck would have it. Right about that time, these 1210 00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:37,000 Speaker 1: small modular digital multi track recorders came out. They were 1211 00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,360 Speaker 1: called a DAT right, which was a VHS cassette that 1212 00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:44,240 Speaker 1: did eight tracks of digital recording and you could cascade 1213 00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,720 Speaker 1: them together to make forty eight tracks, sixty four tracks 1214 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:49,800 Speaker 1: of digital recording, whatever you wanted to do, right. So 1215 00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,240 Speaker 1: I had those in my studio already, had been using them, 1216 00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,480 Speaker 1: been recording bands. You know. That was around the time 1217 00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,720 Speaker 1: I was trying to get my label together and and 1218 00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,160 Speaker 1: get that whole part of my my my empire one. 1219 00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:02,880 Speaker 1: But I got invited to do the Petty thing. Now, 1220 00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:05,479 Speaker 1: you know, Petty has already been together at that point, 1221 00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:09,080 Speaker 1: you know, about you know, fifteen years maybe, and the 1222 00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,440 Speaker 1: band knows each other, you know. I'm in rehearsals and 1223 00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:14,200 Speaker 1: I'm kind of set up in another little room because 1224 00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,040 Speaker 1: it's a pretty small rehearsal space, and I'm kind of 1225 00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:17,840 Speaker 1: set up in another room with my consoles and some 1226 00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,680 Speaker 1: control room monitors, and I'm just gonna work on mixes 1227 00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,200 Speaker 1: in there while they're rehearsing to get ready for the 1228 00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,840 Speaker 1: first show. Well, and you probably know this from you know, 1229 00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:29,080 Speaker 1: being around the Heartbreakers and that stuff. This was Petty 1230 00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:32,360 Speaker 1: and the Heartbreakers. I mean we we did five days 1231 00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:37,200 Speaker 1: of rehearsals. I never heard one Petty song, not one. 1232 00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:38,960 Speaker 1: It was all covers. It was just like, oh, hey, 1233 00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,840 Speaker 1: let's do uh, let's do this Johnny Cash thing, you know. 1234 00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:43,800 Speaker 1: And they would dig into that, so, you know it. 1235 00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,640 Speaker 1: It became kind of the treehouse where they would just 1236 00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,480 Speaker 1: go hang out and play music. It wasn't really rehearsals 1237 00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:54,000 Speaker 1: per and I kind of had this moment of abject 1238 00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:57,080 Speaker 1: fear of thinking, oh my gosh, I'm going to get 1239 00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:00,960 Speaker 1: to the first show having never heard Tom Petty song 1240 00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:03,800 Speaker 1: through this console. You know, it's I'm gonna get to 1241 00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:05,240 Speaker 1: that show and it's going to be nothing like what 1242 00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:08,600 Speaker 1: I'm doing. Right now. So this was like on a 1243 00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,640 Speaker 1: Thursday Friday, and again just kind of as luck kind 1244 00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:12,760 Speaker 1: of have it. You know, I was working on a 1245 00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,680 Speaker 1: particular style of console at that time that would allow 1246 00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:17,560 Speaker 1: for this kind of thing to happen, and I had 1247 00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,360 Speaker 1: this kind of lightbulb moment of just thinking, you know what, 1248 00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:22,720 Speaker 1: I've got to create a studio workflow here. I've got 1249 00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:25,560 Speaker 1: to be able to record this because I'm gonna bet 1250 00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,720 Speaker 1: next week before we leave, they're going to run through 1251 00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,600 Speaker 1: the set once just to kind of make sure everybody's 1252 00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:33,800 Speaker 1: on point and make sure everybody's okay. And you know, 1253 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,000 Speaker 1: not not the least of which that was Steve Ferroni's 1254 00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:39,040 Speaker 1: first time with the Heartbreakers, so he was panicking the 1255 00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:40,960 Speaker 1: same way, you know, thinking I'm gonna get to the 1256 00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,480 Speaker 1: first show, we're not playing any of these songs. So 1257 00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:46,520 Speaker 1: I literally called my wife and I said, Honey, I 1258 00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,080 Speaker 1: need you to go grab a screwdriver, and I need 1259 00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:50,960 Speaker 1: to go in the studio and I'm gonna have you 1260 00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,600 Speaker 1: pull out all these digital recorders and I'm gonna even 1261 00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:55,920 Speaker 1: send them to me. So over the course of the weekend, 1262 00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:57,680 Speaker 1: she sent those to me and we were able to 1263 00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,320 Speaker 1: interface them to the console in a way that it 1264 01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,520 Speaker 1: was very much like a studio workflow, where I could 1265 01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:07,040 Speaker 1: the band could play, I could record it literally, rewind, 1266 01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:11,560 Speaker 1: put the machines in play, and practice mixing that audio 1267 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:15,160 Speaker 1: through the console without the band playing there right. So 1268 01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:17,320 Speaker 1: we didn't we didn't know it was called virtual sound 1269 01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:18,960 Speaker 1: check at the time. The name for it didn't come 1270 01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,000 Speaker 1: along until years and years later. But I spent the 1271 01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:28,080 Speaker 1: next probably six eight years developing that process, you know, 1272 01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,600 Speaker 1: with analog consoles and digital recorders. At some point I 1273 01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:33,600 Speaker 1: switched over to pro tools and all kinds of things, 1274 01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,640 Speaker 1: and you know, I knew we were onto something at 1275 01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,200 Speaker 1: the first gig because you know, I mean, I don't 1276 01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:41,800 Speaker 1: know how much your listeners or anything you know about 1277 01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:43,760 Speaker 1: this kind of process. But for years of the process 1278 01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,320 Speaker 1: for getting the p A system to sound right in 1279 01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,560 Speaker 1: the room, would will play some prerecorded music, We'll play 1280 01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:51,960 Speaker 1: our favorite CD, try to get the p A system 1281 01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:53,760 Speaker 1: sound right, and then we'll mix and try to make 1282 01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,080 Speaker 1: it sound right. And especially as the nineties war on, 1283 01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:02,760 Speaker 1: you know, mastering and equalization of recorded music changed dramatically. 1284 01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,680 Speaker 1: I mean it's way brighter, way more compressed, way less 1285 01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:09,520 Speaker 1: dynamic range than anything you're ever going to be able 1286 01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,600 Speaker 1: to make happen in the p A system with live microphones, right, 1287 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,200 Speaker 1: So those two worlds kind of diverged where you could 1288 01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:17,360 Speaker 1: get get the PA to sound really good and then 1289 01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:19,840 Speaker 1: have the microphones come online and wouldn't sound very good, 1290 01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't be representative of it at all. But the thing 1291 01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,200 Speaker 1: I noticed with virtual sound check right away was, oh 1292 01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,800 Speaker 1: my gosh, we've got the most relevant source for the show. Now. 1293 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,439 Speaker 1: If I hit rewind and hit play here and get 1294 01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:33,720 Speaker 1: that to sound really good in the p A when 1295 01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:35,600 Speaker 1: the band walks on stage, it's going to sound really 1296 01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:39,000 Speaker 1: close to that, right because now we're just trading tracks 1297 01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:41,200 Speaker 1: for microphones. We're just trading them off and saying which 1298 01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:44,280 Speaker 1: one are you listening to right now? Tracks or microphones? Now? 1299 01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,840 Speaker 1: So you know, I'm I'm really oversimplifying it. But that 1300 01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,480 Speaker 1: developed over a period of years and really the I 1301 01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:53,840 Speaker 1: think for me, the validation came one day, and this 1302 01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,680 Speaker 1: was about two thousand five. This was after the first 1303 01:01:57,640 --> 01:01:59,360 Speaker 1: you know, once I got to digit design, I remember 1304 01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,640 Speaker 1: started thinking, okay, we could actually make this a valid 1305 01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,600 Speaker 1: product feature and really kind of completely reshape the industry here. 1306 01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:09,400 Speaker 1: So we released the ability to do that and called 1307 01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:11,400 Speaker 1: it virtual sound check with the one of the first 1308 01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,920 Speaker 1: digit design consoles. And we were sitting in rehearsals in 1309 01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,280 Speaker 1: Sony or it was actually on the Paramount lot, I think, 1310 01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:22,520 Speaker 1: full production, the whole nine yards and Tom and the 1311 01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:24,200 Speaker 1: band had been in the day previous, and I had 1312 01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,720 Speaker 1: recorded the entire set and was going to come in 1313 01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,840 Speaker 1: the next morning and just go into virtual sound check, 1314 01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,200 Speaker 1: tear it all apart and see what I wanted to 1315 01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,040 Speaker 1: do with it. And I haven't mentioned it, but keep 1316 01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,240 Speaker 1: it up in mind. Tom had no idea I had 1317 01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:40,920 Speaker 1: this ability to do this. I mean I kind of 1318 01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:42,920 Speaker 1: kept it secret for the longest amount of time. He 1319 01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,000 Speaker 1: had no inkling that we could do this. I would 1320 01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,400 Speaker 1: always virtual sound check, then the band would come in 1321 01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:49,000 Speaker 1: and do their actual sound check, and then we would 1322 01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:52,200 Speaker 1: do the show. So he I came in the next 1323 01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:54,200 Speaker 1: morning and again was going to break it all down 1324 01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:56,920 Speaker 1: and try to get, you know, really dig in and 1325 01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,080 Speaker 1: see what I needed to do on this. And I 1326 01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:00,760 Speaker 1: didn't realize that as time, but he was in the 1327 01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,200 Speaker 1: building and he was sitting on a couch about thirty 1328 01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:05,200 Speaker 1: ft behind me, off in the corner, waiting to do 1329 01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:10,200 Speaker 1: some interviews and he tells the story way funnier than 1330 01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:12,000 Speaker 1: I could ever tell it. He said he was sitting 1331 01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,360 Speaker 1: there on the couch and kind of had this panic 1332 01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:16,680 Speaker 1: moment of, well, wait a minute, that is that my 1333 01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:19,600 Speaker 1: band sound checking right now? Why am I not? Why 1334 01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,160 Speaker 1: am I not there? And then he heard his voice 1335 01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:23,880 Speaker 1: come through the p A and he was like, Okay, now, 1336 01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:27,720 Speaker 1: wait a minute, here's what's actually happening right now. You know, 1337 01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,240 Speaker 1: there was this kind of pause moment. So he kind 1338 01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:33,640 Speaker 1: of came up to the console and we were talking 1339 01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:35,440 Speaker 1: about it, and I kind of revealed what I was 1340 01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:37,240 Speaker 1: going on, and you know, I mean, he was he 1341 01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:39,520 Speaker 1: was such a smart guy. I mean, he just he 1342 01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:42,000 Speaker 1: just got it. You know. He was like, Okay, wait 1343 01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:45,160 Speaker 1: a minute now, so you're telling me that for the 1344 01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:47,200 Speaker 1: first time ever in my life, right now, I'm going 1345 01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:48,760 Speaker 1: to be able to sit here and listen to how 1346 01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:51,960 Speaker 1: my show sounds in the in the venue, just like 1347 01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:53,960 Speaker 1: when we're playing. I said, yeah, you want to hear it? 1348 01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,680 Speaker 1: Here we go, you know, and sorry, and and we 1349 01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:00,440 Speaker 1: sat there and had this just incredible bonding moment of 1350 01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:03,920 Speaker 1: you know, he was just like, I I've never heard 1351 01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:05,560 Speaker 1: it sound like this. He goes, this is just the 1352 01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:07,520 Speaker 1: greatest thing I've ever experienced in my life, you know, 1353 01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:09,480 Speaker 1: I mean he was just over the moon about it, 1354 01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:11,960 Speaker 1: and it changed our relationship from that moment on. I mean, 1355 01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:14,560 Speaker 1: you know, he I think he understood where I was 1356 01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:16,200 Speaker 1: coming from in terms of what I was trying to 1357 01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,600 Speaker 1: accomplish with it, and you know, all of a sudden 1358 01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:19,920 Speaker 1: he was married to it. He was like, oh, this 1359 01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:22,920 Speaker 1: is great. And then he had the ultimate epiphany of well, 1360 01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:24,720 Speaker 1: wait a minute, can you do this for monitors to 1361 01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:27,000 Speaker 1: for the monitor console. I was like, yeah, of course 1362 01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:31,320 Speaker 1: we can. So that was in two thousand five, and 1363 01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:35,120 Speaker 1: from that point forward to the end of our time 1364 01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,720 Speaker 1: together in two thousand and seventeen, that bend. That band 1365 01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:41,120 Speaker 1: was never in the building again for a sound check. 1366 01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:44,440 Speaker 1: We only used virtual sound check to get ready for shows. 1367 01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,120 Speaker 1: And you know, of course I didn't see all the 1368 01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:52,440 Speaker 1: the positives from it at the time, but I actually 1369 01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:55,320 Speaker 1: think that process actually extended the life of the band 1370 01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,040 Speaker 1: over a period of that over that period of years, 1371 01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,320 Speaker 1: because you know, Tom is famous for saying it, you know, 1372 01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:02,600 Speaker 1: we don't sound check. It can only break up the band, 1373 01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, because everybody's in you know, three o'clock in 1374 01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:08,480 Speaker 1: the afternoon, they're in a horrible mood, and then when 1375 01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,600 Speaker 1: they're done, they gotta go sit in some danky dressing 1376 01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:12,920 Speaker 1: room and listen to a horrible opening act and then 1377 01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,640 Speaker 1: come on stage. You know. I mean it just grinds 1378 01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:18,720 Speaker 1: on you, absolutely grinds on you. Over the course of 1379 01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:21,440 Speaker 1: a tour, well, that all went away now. I mean 1380 01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,520 Speaker 1: there were nights where we would be at the set 1381 01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:27,600 Speaker 1: change between the opening act and tim going on, and 1382 01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:29,600 Speaker 1: they still weren't in the building. I mean they would 1383 01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:32,040 Speaker 1: literally walk off the bus, walk up on stage and 1384 01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:35,240 Speaker 1: start the show. And I noticed it really really early on. 1385 01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:38,000 Speaker 1: It was like, wow, these guys are so focused right now, 1386 01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:42,120 Speaker 1: like they're just playing on fire now, you know. It 1387 01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,680 Speaker 1: changed the dynamic of the show. Everything, everything just became 1388 01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:48,520 Speaker 1: a positive as a result of it. It was just 1389 01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:52,280 Speaker 1: such an amazing time and an amazing experience, you know. 1390 01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:54,800 Speaker 1: So that that to me was the ultimate validation of 1391 01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,520 Speaker 1: that process. Does everybody do this now? A lot of 1392 01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:00,360 Speaker 1: people do? I mean it it really changed the industry. 1393 01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,720 Speaker 1: It changed the mindset of a lot of people. Yeah, 1394 01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:04,720 Speaker 1: I don't think as many people do it as should. 1395 01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,520 Speaker 1: I'll be honest about it. I think more people should 1396 01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:10,520 Speaker 1: do it because I think it's a the ultimate way 1397 01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,520 Speaker 1: to get your arena or your club or whatever it 1398 01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:15,800 Speaker 1: is ready for your show. Like I said, it's the 1399 01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:17,600 Speaker 1: most valid thing you can play through the p A 1400 01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:20,160 Speaker 1: because it's gonna be if it sounds like that way 1401 01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:30,000 Speaker 1: with the tracks, it going down that way with your band. Okay, 1402 01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:33,240 Speaker 1: So let's see you're doing rehearsals with Chestney. How many 1403 01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:35,320 Speaker 1: rehearsals are there? Well, I mean when you get ready 1404 01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:37,720 Speaker 1: for something like this. And we had some unique circumstances 1405 01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:39,920 Speaker 1: with Chesney this year because he's got two new band members, 1406 01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:42,240 Speaker 1: Like they replaced the drummer and they replaced one of 1407 01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:44,920 Speaker 1: the guitar players, so they extended the rehearsal time to 1408 01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:47,200 Speaker 1: make sure that the new guys were going to be, 1409 01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:49,960 Speaker 1: you know, up to speed with the songs, et cetera. 1410 01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,800 Speaker 1: So I took full advantage of that. But we had about, 1411 01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:57,160 Speaker 1: oh gosh, I'm gonna say about three weeks of what 1412 01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:59,160 Speaker 1: we would call band rehearsals, right, which is in a 1413 01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:01,800 Speaker 1: smaller place where just the band is set up with 1414 01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:03,880 Speaker 1: their band gear and everybody's just learning the songs and 1415 01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:07,760 Speaker 1: getting familiar with them. And then we had about two 1416 01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,320 Speaker 1: maybe three weeks of what I would call production rehearsals, 1417 01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:14,360 Speaker 1: which we moved to a much bigger facility. Excuse me. 1418 01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:17,000 Speaker 1: We have a p A system, we have the lighting system, 1419 01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:20,160 Speaker 1: the video systems up, and then all the production elements 1420 01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:22,880 Speaker 1: are working on the songs at that point in rehearsing 1421 01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:24,840 Speaker 1: their pieces of it. You know, Obviously, lighting guys got 1422 01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,600 Speaker 1: to know other cues. I've got to know how to 1423 01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,000 Speaker 1: run the set and you know, make all my changes 1424 01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:34,520 Speaker 1: song to song to solong. Excuse me. Video guys have 1425 01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:36,560 Speaker 1: to have all their content together, etcetera. So that's the 1426 01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:39,440 Speaker 1: production rehearsal, and then we're gonna go down to Tampa 1427 01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:42,160 Speaker 1: next week and do the two about three or four 1428 01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:45,440 Speaker 1: days in the stadium to get everybody acclimated to that, 1429 01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:47,200 Speaker 1: and then after that we just go, you know, and 1430 01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:49,480 Speaker 1: then after that there's no more rehearsal periods. Okay. I 1431 01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:52,320 Speaker 1: guess what I'm asking is what recording do you use 1432 01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:56,440 Speaker 1: for the virtual sound check last rehearsal or you're recording 1433 01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:59,880 Speaker 1: all along the way. I'm recording every day, and I 1434 01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:04,480 Speaker 1: always use the most recent version of the songs, so um, 1435 01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, like every day of rehearsal, if I was 1436 01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:09,880 Speaker 1: coming into work on my on what I would need 1437 01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:12,080 Speaker 1: to do on the console, I was using yesterday's audio, 1438 01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:14,439 Speaker 1: and the same thing will apply on the tour. I'll 1439 01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:17,160 Speaker 1: always use the most recent version. So when I get 1440 01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,000 Speaker 1: to Tampa, I'll be using on the first day of rehear, 1441 01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:22,439 Speaker 1: so I'll be using audio from the first day of 1442 01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:25,040 Speaker 1: rehear or the last day of rehearsals, and then the 1443 01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:27,400 Speaker 1: second day in Tampa, I'll be using the first day 1444 01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:29,880 Speaker 1: of rehearsals in Tampa as that basis. And then it 1445 01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,600 Speaker 1: just keeps leap frogging as you go along. And the 1446 01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:34,360 Speaker 1: beauty that you get out of all this this this 1447 01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:36,680 Speaker 1: is the other head of benefit as you create an 1448 01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:39,640 Speaker 1: archive then, right, I mean this this was one of 1449 01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:41,599 Speaker 1: the once I once I got Petty to buy off 1450 01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:43,439 Speaker 1: on this one and his management to buy off on it, 1451 01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:45,920 Speaker 1: then the light bulb really came off. It came on. 1452 01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:48,560 Speaker 1: It was like, guys, you know, we don't have to 1453 01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,560 Speaker 1: erase this every day. Let's keep these multi tracks and 1454 01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,160 Speaker 1: put them in your archive, right because you can remix 1455 01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:58,280 Speaker 1: any of this and and put it out for product, 1456 01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,559 Speaker 1: especially now, you know, I mean, Kenny's got no Shoes radio, 1457 01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:04,640 Speaker 1: you know, Tom had serious you know, you know the 1458 01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,400 Speaker 1: Tom Petty Show. On Tom Petty Radio Show. You can 1459 01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:10,479 Speaker 1: just you're just gonna be so flush with fresh material 1460 01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:14,160 Speaker 1: if you want it, you know, And I'll tell you something, Bob, 1461 01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:16,479 Speaker 1: I mean really. One of the underlying agendas for me, 1462 01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:18,880 Speaker 1: this was a personal one for me, was being able 1463 01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:21,200 Speaker 1: to do this because the technology allowed us to do 1464 01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:24,200 Speaker 1: it right. The technology allows us to do this inexpensively. Now, 1465 01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:27,560 Speaker 1: this concept of multi tracking our shows and archiving it. 1466 01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:31,200 Speaker 1: One of the things for me was I love live music. 1467 01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:34,400 Speaker 1: I love live recorded music. I mean I grew up 1468 01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:37,720 Speaker 1: I had every live album known to man, you know, 1469 01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:41,120 Speaker 1: from nineteen Let's let's start for one second. What are 1470 01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:44,080 Speaker 1: is the best or the two best live recordings in 1471 01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:46,719 Speaker 1: your book? Oh, you're gonna put me on this, Okay, 1472 01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:49,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say Allman Brothers at the film wore that 1473 01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:51,360 Speaker 1: that is got to be right up at the top 1474 01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:53,960 Speaker 1: of the heap because it's just such a magical set 1475 01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:56,320 Speaker 1: of performances and recording. I mean, Tom doubt but just 1476 01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,599 Speaker 1: just killed it. And then I'm going to say, because 1477 01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:02,519 Speaker 1: the thing you have to put with live recordings is 1478 01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:06,360 Speaker 1: there's an audience capture that needs to take place as well, 1479 01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,439 Speaker 1: So you know, the audience recording is a big piece 1480 01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:12,120 Speaker 1: of it. And I still to this day say Frampton 1481 01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:16,160 Speaker 1: Comes Alive is the best audience engaged recording I've ever 1482 01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:19,240 Speaker 1: heard today. Now there's one that's close to that, and 1483 01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:24,440 Speaker 1: it's Buck Owens Live at Carnegie Hall. That's an incredible 1484 01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:27,800 Speaker 1: audience recording there. But you know that that is what 1485 01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,080 Speaker 1: makes live albums work for me, is when you can 1486 01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:34,320 Speaker 1: tell that's the actual audience that's recorded and they are 1487 01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:36,720 Speaker 1: fully engaged with that artist. You can hear it. They're 1488 01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,479 Speaker 1: just hanging on every word. And I've yet to hear 1489 01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,479 Speaker 1: anything that matches that with Frampton Brampton Comes Alive. You know, 1490 01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:44,040 Speaker 1: next time you listen to it, just pay attention to 1491 01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:46,320 Speaker 1: the audience. It's just incredible. I guess for a long 1492 01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:49,000 Speaker 1: time people said that Live It Leads was the best 1493 01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:51,320 Speaker 1: live album, but I didn't hear the audience, so it 1494 01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:53,040 Speaker 1: didn't work for me, And there's some truth to that. 1495 01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:55,320 Speaker 1: Although that's very high on my list. I mean, I 1496 01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:57,320 Speaker 1: mean that one kind of set the bar for me 1497 01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:00,280 Speaker 1: for a long time. I'm I wore out multiple opies 1498 01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:02,280 Speaker 1: of that one, but the other one, and I know 1499 01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:06,040 Speaker 1: you worked with this band, Tesla five Me and Acoustical Jam. 1500 01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:08,400 Speaker 1: I was piste off because I didn't get to mix that. 1501 01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:10,240 Speaker 1: But that's a whole another story. We'll save that for 1502 01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:14,240 Speaker 1: another episode. But you recorded that, No, I didn't. I didn't. 1503 01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:16,439 Speaker 1: I was on that tour and kind of mixed a 1504 01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,080 Speaker 1: bunch of the tour that was radio great, radio controversy. 1505 01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:22,000 Speaker 1: And then they went off and did that. Oh, forgive me, 1506 01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:24,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to forget. The guy who recorded it's Dan. 1507 01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:28,439 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, guys, forgive me. I'm spacing his last name. 1508 01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:30,439 Speaker 1: But he worked with the band for a long long 1509 01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:32,720 Speaker 1: time and he recorded it and mixed it and did 1510 01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:35,360 Speaker 1: a phenomenal job on it. And you know, I'm sorry 1511 01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:38,000 Speaker 1: to say he's not with us anymore, but he was great. 1512 01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:39,240 Speaker 1: He was one of the you know, he's one of 1513 01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:40,679 Speaker 1: those long time guys that have been with the band 1514 01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:42,040 Speaker 1: for a long time, and they let him do it 1515 01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:45,160 Speaker 1: and it came out great. Okay, let's go back a chapter. 1516 01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:48,880 Speaker 1: I have been at the venue. I know the people 1517 01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:51,439 Speaker 1: at the venue, and they were there at sound check 1518 01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,559 Speaker 1: and one act I don't want to mention the specific 1519 01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:57,400 Speaker 1: name here, they said that guy can't sing it all yeah, 1520 01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:00,599 Speaker 1: and it's all effects or there's another household being I'm 1521 01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:03,280 Speaker 1: good friends with these people and they say, all the 1522 01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:07,560 Speaker 1: backup vocals are on hard rock. Okay, how do you 1523 01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:09,400 Speaker 1: do that? Do you want to know how you do 1524 01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:12,800 Speaker 1: it or why you do it? Both? Yeah? Well this 1525 01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:14,760 Speaker 1: is a well and it's going to play into what 1526 01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:17,519 Speaker 1: I was going to promote here. You know what I'll 1527 01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:19,600 Speaker 1: get to this. Just hang with me, bear with me 1528 01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:21,920 Speaker 1: here one second. You know, one of the things I like, 1529 01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:25,360 Speaker 1: I love about live music and live albums was this 1530 01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:27,680 Speaker 1: sense of, you know, kind of getting to hear what 1531 01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:29,599 Speaker 1: the band could do before you go see them live. 1532 01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:31,760 Speaker 1: I mean, that was always the thing for me. But 1533 01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:35,120 Speaker 1: as I matured and I got older, you know, I 1534 01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:38,240 Speaker 1: started to realize, you know, and I got exposed to 1535 01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:41,840 Speaker 1: production techniques, etcetera, that some of these live recordings that 1536 01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:45,920 Speaker 1: I grew up loving, we're actually just completely redone in 1537 01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:48,800 Speaker 1: the studio with audience added to him. And I was like, well, 1538 01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,920 Speaker 1: wait a minute, that's that's not live. That's not live. 1539 01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:55,600 Speaker 1: I don't want I don't want my live record to 1540 01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:58,639 Speaker 1: be you going in and singing perfect vocals over it. Now, 1541 01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,639 Speaker 1: you know, because the thing that happens with that from 1542 01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:04,280 Speaker 1: production point of view, and I've experienced this, you know, 1543 01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:08,639 Speaker 1: mixing some of these products, is that, well, the audience 1544 01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:11,160 Speaker 1: mix that are out there are also picking up what's 1545 01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:13,560 Speaker 1: coming out of the p A to some degree, so 1546 01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:16,360 Speaker 1: they can hear those audience mikes can actually hear you're 1547 01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:19,080 Speaker 1: very poor vocal. So now if you go in the 1548 01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:21,880 Speaker 1: studio and you record a perfect vocal and we tried 1549 01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:24,280 Speaker 1: to add the audience, you can hear the bad vocal 1550 01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:27,120 Speaker 1: behind it. So what ends up happening is we start 1551 01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:29,320 Speaker 1: to pull the audience farther and farther away off of 1552 01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:32,519 Speaker 1: the record and maybe even putting canned audience on it. 1553 01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:35,200 Speaker 1: So now it's not even the live audience anymore. It's 1554 01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:38,280 Speaker 1: not the live performance or the live audience. I was like, well, 1555 01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:41,520 Speaker 1: and and I mean, you've got to keep it in context. 1556 01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:45,160 Speaker 1: Right at that point in music history, you know, live 1557 01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:49,240 Speaker 1: records were kind of throwaway kind of they were Sometimes 1558 01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:51,920 Speaker 1: they were done to complete record contracts so I could 1559 01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:54,680 Speaker 1: move on to another label, you know, all those kinds 1560 01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:57,240 Speaker 1: of things. So and you know, it was very expensive 1561 01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,800 Speaker 1: at that point in history to record. So you know, 1562 01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:02,840 Speaker 1: if the truck your two thousand dollar a day, you know, 1563 01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:06,439 Speaker 1: plus crew, plus expenses. If that showed up and recorded 1564 01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:08,320 Speaker 1: a really bad show, well guess what you were keeping 1565 01:14:08,360 --> 01:14:10,680 Speaker 1: it and you were going to go fix it. So 1566 01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,120 Speaker 1: part of my agenda, I promise you, part of my 1567 01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:15,920 Speaker 1: agenda with kind of developing this whole multi track archive 1568 01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:18,160 Speaker 1: thing was what that's going to allow us to do 1569 01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:22,840 Speaker 1: is record every night, not just certain nights, record every 1570 01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:26,320 Speaker 1: night and then go pick the performances that are worthy 1571 01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:29,479 Speaker 1: of being mixed and released. And that's you know, with 1572 01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:32,760 Speaker 1: Petty's Anthology, that's what happened there. You know, we had 1573 01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:35,720 Speaker 1: enough recordings where we could kind of go through and go, wow, 1574 01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:37,880 Speaker 1: we don't have to fix anything there. Let's let's release 1575 01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:40,400 Speaker 1: that sucker, mix it up and let's go you know, 1576 01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:42,599 Speaker 1: and then it becomes very pure, right, I mean, then 1577 01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:46,519 Speaker 1: it becomes really what you're stating that it is right 1578 01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:48,560 Speaker 1: and that that's always been my goal on it. And 1579 01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:50,280 Speaker 1: you know, one of the other sidebars I would give 1580 01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:53,240 Speaker 1: you on that is and I watched this happen with 1581 01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:55,960 Speaker 1: every act I've ever worked for. I don't care how 1582 01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:00,479 Speaker 1: proficient they are. I have seen this happen in the 1583 01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:04,160 Speaker 1: days before multi track archiving, like I've tried to develop here. 1584 01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:06,360 Speaker 1: If you had the truck show up and say, okay, 1585 01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:08,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna do Los Angeles next week and we're going 1586 01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:10,200 Speaker 1: to record it, hopefully get a live album out of it. 1587 01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:12,559 Speaker 1: You could we do with the band where you've done 1588 01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:17,680 Speaker 1: sixty shows together just overall, just great shows. And the 1589 01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:20,840 Speaker 1: minute that truck shows up and that red recording light 1590 01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:24,560 Speaker 1: goes on, they turned into a different band. They're just 1591 01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:28,519 Speaker 1: a different band. They're playing different, they're they're over trying 1592 01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:31,880 Speaker 1: all kinds of things, and you just walk away on that, 1593 01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:36,080 Speaker 1: ain't it? That ain't the one we wanted. Well, multi 1594 01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:39,519 Speaker 1: track archive eliminates that process because they don't they don't 1595 01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:41,760 Speaker 1: have red light fever. Then the red lights on every night, 1596 01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:45,160 Speaker 1: they get used to it, and you get the smoking performances. 1597 01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:46,680 Speaker 1: You know, you just gotta be able to go in 1598 01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:49,080 Speaker 1: and mind them out of there and find them right. 1599 01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:52,960 Speaker 1: It's it's awesome, it's absolutely awesome. Well that's the live then, 1600 01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:55,240 Speaker 1: but let's go to the acts on the other end. 1601 01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:57,120 Speaker 1: You want to cover. Yeah, we were gonna get back 1602 01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:58,880 Speaker 1: to that, right, Sorry, I promise you we get back 1603 01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:02,840 Speaker 1: to that. So, I mean, I'm so I'm so mixed. 1604 01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:05,240 Speaker 1: About this and and got to keep it in context 1605 01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:11,479 Speaker 1: at times, I think, right, I mean, I'm okay, I 1606 01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:15,400 Speaker 1: I promise you I'm okay with using tracks with backing tracks. 1607 01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:20,320 Speaker 1: What I'm not okay with is people miming to backing tracks. Now, 1608 01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:22,400 Speaker 1: I want to keep this in context here. I want 1609 01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:25,439 Speaker 1: to keep TV out of it and talk about only 1610 01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:31,000 Speaker 1: the concert hall we're paying to go see the band perform, 1611 01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:35,400 Speaker 1: right when that is all tracks and just sit people 1612 01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:37,599 Speaker 1: lip sing it, sinking to it so that they can 1613 01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:39,840 Speaker 1: do other things or what are maybe they can't sing 1614 01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,360 Speaker 1: and they feel like they're insecure, I have to sing 1615 01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:46,439 Speaker 1: to the track, etcetera. I'm really uncomfortable with that as like, 1616 01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:50,240 Speaker 1: I mean, that just feels really really misrepresented to me. 1617 01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:53,960 Speaker 1: You know, it feels very phony to me, and you know, 1618 01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:58,360 Speaker 1: there's it's like and I just am uncomfortable with that. 1619 01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:00,559 Speaker 1: But by the same token, I look it and go, well, 1620 01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:02,519 Speaker 1: that's a function of the industry that we have right now, 1621 01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:05,080 Speaker 1: the record business that we have right now. Right think 1622 01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:08,920 Speaker 1: about this now. The record industry is upside down. It's 1623 01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:12,680 Speaker 1: completely backwards. Now. The first thing we do as an 1624 01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:16,639 Speaker 1: artist now is make a record and then go out 1625 01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:20,160 Speaker 1: and learn how to perform it. You know, artists today 1626 01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:23,800 Speaker 1: don't have that crucible of performance in front of an 1627 01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:26,479 Speaker 1: audience where they have where they learn how to sing 1628 01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:29,240 Speaker 1: with nerves and in front of people, they learn how 1629 01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:31,479 Speaker 1: to develop their charisma, all of these sorts of things, 1630 01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:35,680 Speaker 1: and then go make the record that's completely upside down. 1631 01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:39,320 Speaker 1: Now they just don't have to go through that crucible anymore. 1632 01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:41,960 Speaker 1: And we see it all the time where you know, 1633 01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:44,360 Speaker 1: people make their record at home, whatever they the thing 1634 01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:47,000 Speaker 1: blows up, they do really big, and now they're playing 1635 01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:50,519 Speaker 1: in front of Lollapaloosa and they don't have the chops. 1636 01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:52,800 Speaker 1: They don't have the chops to do it live. But 1637 01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:56,400 Speaker 1: on a technical level, you're working with an act they 1638 01:17:56,479 --> 01:17:59,200 Speaker 1: want to use canned backup vocals. How do you literally 1639 01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:02,080 Speaker 1: do it? It's done in a digital audio workstation, which 1640 01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:04,120 Speaker 1: is like pro Tools. There's lots of other ones out 1641 01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:06,800 Speaker 1: there like Ableton and etcetera. Where they bring in the 1642 01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:10,240 Speaker 1: tracks from the record, put them in there. Whoever the 1643 01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:13,120 Speaker 1: band is playing to a click track, and at the 1644 01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:15,360 Speaker 1: proper time in the song, those backing vocals come up 1645 01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:17,160 Speaker 1: and they come into your console. You turn them up 1646 01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:19,479 Speaker 1: and they sound just like the record coming through the 1647 01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:21,600 Speaker 1: p A system. Okay, I know what a click track is, 1648 01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:24,600 Speaker 1: but from my OEMs, explain how it works live. A 1649 01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:27,400 Speaker 1: click track is I mean another word for it is 1650 01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:30,599 Speaker 1: a metronome, right, But in our world we have recorded 1651 01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:32,840 Speaker 1: versions of that where you know, it's recorded as a 1652 01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:37,840 Speaker 1: specific tempo. Everybody knows where the the first beat of 1653 01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:40,320 Speaker 1: the song is and it just starts clapping. It just 1654 01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:42,880 Speaker 1: starts ticking, right, So the song is going along and 1655 01:18:42,920 --> 01:18:47,120 Speaker 1: it's going this is the tempo that we're playing the 1656 01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:52,000 Speaker 1: song too. And at the you know, at bar or 1657 01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,040 Speaker 1: whatever it is, here come our backing vocals. You know. 1658 01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:57,160 Speaker 1: So Petty played the super Bowl. Were you involved in that? Ye? 1659 01:18:57,920 --> 01:18:59,839 Speaker 1: So how did you do that? Dude? It's the scariest 1660 01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:03,280 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes of your life. It's it's the most intense pressure. 1661 01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:05,479 Speaker 1: I think I may have ever felt that a gig, 1662 01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:07,960 Speaker 1: you know. So the way you do that is honestly 1663 01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:10,960 Speaker 1: very similar, you know, and they do it in a 1664 01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:12,880 Speaker 1: really cool way there. I like how the super Bowl, 1665 01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:14,840 Speaker 1: at least I'm assuming they're still doing it the same 1666 01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:19,000 Speaker 1: way where you you prerecorded on the day, the day's 1667 01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:21,639 Speaker 1: leading up to the event, and then the band plays 1668 01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:23,560 Speaker 1: along with the tracks, and you have the choice of 1669 01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:26,000 Speaker 1: using as the mixture. You have the choice of using 1670 01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:29,160 Speaker 1: the actual mix or the tracks. And you know, the 1671 01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:31,960 Speaker 1: lead vocal can be all live, it can be partially live. 1672 01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:34,120 Speaker 1: You have the choice of doing it because they know 1673 01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:36,840 Speaker 1: that that. You know, if the lead singer forgets the 1674 01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:39,600 Speaker 1: lines or whatever, you know, the guitar player misses the 1675 01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:42,080 Speaker 1: part mrs the solo, you just lean on the track 1676 01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:45,639 Speaker 1: and finish out the song. So again, it's it's down 1677 01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:49,240 Speaker 1: to that thing. It's so time driven and so like 1678 01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:51,920 Speaker 1: the brackets have got to be perfect around that. It 1679 01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:55,080 Speaker 1: can only last this long. We cannot have any mess 1680 01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:59,439 Speaker 1: ups here, etcetera. You know that is about predictability, etcetera. 1681 01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:00,880 Speaker 1: So I you know, I don't. I don't think it's 1682 01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:03,040 Speaker 1: a huge secret what goes on there. But you know 1683 01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:05,160 Speaker 1: that said, there have been live performances on there, you know, 1684 01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:07,040 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of part of the Petty thing 1685 01:20:07,120 --> 01:20:10,160 Speaker 1: was live, for sure, part of the Prince thing was live. 1686 01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:13,519 Speaker 1: You know, I'm playing guitar. Were you literally control or 1687 01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:16,240 Speaker 1: was one of their engineers in control for the broadcast? 1688 01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:18,840 Speaker 1: Is one of their engineers for the house? I was, well, 1689 01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:20,720 Speaker 1: I was, it was a similar sort of thing where 1690 01:20:20,720 --> 01:20:22,600 Speaker 1: you have a house engineer who's doing it, who's a 1691 01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:24,439 Speaker 1: union guy, and you're sitting right next to him saying, yeah, 1692 01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:28,240 Speaker 1: let's do that. Yeah, you're you're guiding there. Okay. One 1693 01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:32,799 Speaker 1: thing about live sound is every building is different. Indeed 1694 01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:36,960 Speaker 1: it is. Okay, so are you saying now? With virtual 1695 01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:39,639 Speaker 1: sound check, it makes it so much easier, whereas before 1696 01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,120 Speaker 1: you were just on the flaw. Yeah, because you can 1697 01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:45,799 Speaker 1: take actual band audio that's played at the right dynamic everything, 1698 01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:48,679 Speaker 1: send it through the p A system and really take 1699 01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:52,360 Speaker 1: your time and figure out how good is my PA coverage? 1700 01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:54,320 Speaker 1: Am I actually getting all the way up to those seats? 1701 01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:56,320 Speaker 1: You know, what does it sound like up there? What 1702 01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:58,760 Speaker 1: is what does my band sound like sitting over in 1703 01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:01,600 Speaker 1: these seats? Right now? I can go evaluate it and 1704 01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:06,360 Speaker 1: adjust it. You know. The biggest piece of positive I 1705 01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:08,000 Speaker 1: think for virtual sound check is it gives you the 1706 01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:12,080 Speaker 1: ability to practice when nothing's at stake. You can experiment, 1707 01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:15,519 Speaker 1: You can try things, all kinds of things without the 1708 01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:17,720 Speaker 1: band sitting on stage, you know, being freaked out by 1709 01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:20,479 Speaker 1: a bunch of weird sounding audio or the audience not 1710 01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:22,120 Speaker 1: not having to do it in front of an audience. 1711 01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:25,320 Speaker 1: It's very very analogous to a studio workflow where you're 1712 01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:28,559 Speaker 1: working on mixes, you know, like in virtual sound check. 1713 01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:30,880 Speaker 1: I'm no use kidding as an example, because the most 1714 01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:32,519 Speaker 1: recent thing, you know, I might I might spend one 1715 01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:35,640 Speaker 1: entire day of rehearsals working on one song, you know, 1716 01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:36,960 Speaker 1: for the set, trying to get it to be what 1717 01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:38,599 Speaker 1: I wanted to be. So you know, you could never 1718 01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:41,880 Speaker 1: do that that was not just simply not possible in 1719 01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:45,280 Speaker 1: pre virtual sound check. Okay. In an arena show, how 1720 01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:47,040 Speaker 1: long we'll it take you to set up depends on 1721 01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:51,280 Speaker 1: the size of the production, but usually usually you'll start 1722 01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:54,040 Speaker 1: at six in the morning and bring in that entire 1723 01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:56,560 Speaker 1: production that day and be ready for a Show'll be 1724 01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:58,800 Speaker 1: ready for the doors to open by six pm. How 1725 01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:00,960 Speaker 1: much of the time are you there, Well, I'm usually 1726 01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:03,320 Speaker 1: in there in the morning, working out early in the morning, 1727 01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:07,759 Speaker 1: so I'm available, but my my process doesn't start until probably, 1728 01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, somewhere between eleven and one o'clock. And it 1729 01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:15,360 Speaker 1: also depends on how many bands we have on the bill. 1730 01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:18,200 Speaker 1: You know. Stadiums is a very very different thing. You 1731 01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:20,360 Speaker 1: have about a week to load in for a stadium. 1732 01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:23,240 Speaker 1: There's a lot of steel build that has to take place, 1733 01:22:24,240 --> 01:22:26,120 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff has to go into place in 1734 01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:29,160 Speaker 1: the stadium, a lot of delay speakers, etcetera that go 1735 01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:32,000 Speaker 1: out in the far reaches of the stadium. All kinds 1736 01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:34,639 Speaker 1: of stuff. Is very like I said earlier, it's adult audio. 1737 01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:37,599 Speaker 1: It's very very complex, very challenging. So let's assume it's 1738 01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:40,519 Speaker 1: an arena thing. You're there, you're working out. Once you 1739 01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:43,080 Speaker 1: stit in behind the board, how long does it take 1740 01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:45,320 Speaker 1: you to get it right? If I've done my job 1741 01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:48,880 Speaker 1: in the process called system tuning, which is kind of 1742 01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:51,040 Speaker 1: equalizing the p A and make sure the distribution of 1743 01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:53,920 Speaker 1: it right, It'll usually take me about I don't know, 1744 01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:56,960 Speaker 1: maybe thirty minutes thirty forty minutes to just kind of 1745 01:22:57,040 --> 01:22:58,599 Speaker 1: check things and make sure they are where I want 1746 01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:01,320 Speaker 1: them to be, because you know, the the cool thing 1747 01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:03,200 Speaker 1: at least this is my approach. Once I get the 1748 01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:06,559 Speaker 1: console kind of set and and know all the moves 1749 01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:08,400 Speaker 1: that are going to take place during the show, that's 1750 01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:12,120 Speaker 1: kind of a constant, right, So like you know, if 1751 01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:14,280 Speaker 1: we start that process and I'm on song three and 1752 01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:16,599 Speaker 1: it sounds right to me and everything is responding that way, 1753 01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:18,519 Speaker 1: then I'm confident that the rest of the show is 1754 01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:20,840 Speaker 1: going to work as well, you know, unless I need 1755 01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:22,519 Speaker 1: to go really dig in on something and work on 1756 01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:24,120 Speaker 1: it and say, oh and I need to get that better, 1757 01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:28,679 Speaker 1: you know whatever. So yeah, forty minutes. Tell me about 1758 01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,599 Speaker 1: the equalization. Well, we have all kinds of possibilities now 1759 01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:34,960 Speaker 1: with equalization, I mean, and really it's just I mean, 1760 01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:36,680 Speaker 1: it sounds like a big flute word, but it's just 1761 01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:39,880 Speaker 1: really trying to get this thing totally balanced so that 1762 01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:42,280 Speaker 1: it sounds like the music you're trying to present, right. 1763 01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:45,400 Speaker 1: So you know, if it's I mean, if it's Metallica, 1764 01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:47,639 Speaker 1: you can bet there's going to be a huge based 1765 01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:50,680 Speaker 1: drumb element, a huge bottom end element, along with some 1766 01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:55,000 Speaker 1: very loud, bright guitars and you know, a big vocal. 1767 01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:56,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it's going to be in your face, you know, 1768 01:23:57,400 --> 01:24:00,280 Speaker 1: whereas I mean, we'll just keep using it as the 1769 01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:02,799 Speaker 1: example here. If I was mixing Adele, very very different 1770 01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:05,519 Speaker 1: profile through the p A system, they're much more focused 1771 01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:16,479 Speaker 1: on intelligibility and elegance, you know. Needless to say, in 1772 01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:19,639 Speaker 1: the days of your you would go to the gig 1773 01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:23,960 Speaker 1: and the sound was bad, okay in the arena, in 1774 01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:26,920 Speaker 1: the stadium, if you knew the songs, you knew what 1775 01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:30,200 Speaker 1: they were playing, you'd fill in. And it has certainly 1776 01:24:30,280 --> 01:24:32,800 Speaker 1: got better. You certainly have the Forum in l A 1777 01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:37,439 Speaker 1: which is dedicated solely to music, but generally speaking that 1778 01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:40,439 Speaker 1: is not the case. I mean, I've certainly been at 1779 01:24:40,479 --> 01:24:43,040 Speaker 1: gigs where the front of hall mixer, you know, and 1780 01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:45,560 Speaker 1: it sounds good right where he is or she is, 1781 01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:48,240 Speaker 1: and then the rest of the room sounds terrible. Yeah, 1782 01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:50,760 Speaker 1: that can happen, although I'll say that happens way less 1783 01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:53,360 Speaker 1: today than I think it's ever happened. I mean, we've 1784 01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:56,920 Speaker 1: gotten that so much better now. Certainly the Petty, the 1785 01:24:57,320 --> 01:24:59,200 Speaker 1: p A system that I had on Petty, I think 1786 01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:01,960 Speaker 1: was the best ample of that where I was really 1787 01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:04,439 Speaker 1: really confident that however it sounded where I was sitting 1788 01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:07,519 Speaker 1: was pretty much how it sounded everywhere else in the house. 1789 01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:09,160 Speaker 1: You know, from a tonal point of view, it may 1790 01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:12,040 Speaker 1: not be the same volume everywhere, but tonally it sounded 1791 01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:13,960 Speaker 1: that way up there. You know, the things I was 1792 01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:16,720 Speaker 1: doing on the on the console would translate to big 1793 01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:19,600 Speaker 1: pieces of the audience, you know. So that was that 1794 01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:21,479 Speaker 1: was a big move forward. That that PA system was 1795 01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:23,559 Speaker 1: a big jump forward. Well, actually, I know. I saw 1796 01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:25,920 Speaker 1: that gig on the final weekend and I was very 1797 01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:29,400 Speaker 1: close and I was astounded how good it sound, because 1798 01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:31,000 Speaker 1: I go to a lot of gigs at the Hollywood 1799 01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:34,719 Speaker 1: Bowl and you know, you know that the act is there, 1800 01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:38,320 Speaker 1: but it's not crystal clear if you're sitting fifteen rows back. 1801 01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:42,519 Speaker 1: You know, I remember you. I remember reading one of 1802 01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:45,600 Speaker 1: your letters where you commented on this, Bob, and I 1803 01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:47,560 Speaker 1: actually wrote you back. I don't know if you hear this, 1804 01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:50,160 Speaker 1: well I do. That was all around the time that 1805 01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:53,000 Speaker 1: you know, Tom died and then Tony used what I 1806 01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:56,640 Speaker 1: wrote at the memorial service. But moving on from that, 1807 01:25:57,320 --> 01:26:00,280 Speaker 1: you were talking about the speakers that can direct lead 1808 01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:04,479 Speaker 1: point someone. Have you heard the demonstration for the sphere, 1809 01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:08,439 Speaker 1: the Madison Square Gardens sphere. I haven't heard the demonstration yet, 1810 01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:11,640 Speaker 1: but I understand the concepts behind it and irrelevant of 1811 01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:14,160 Speaker 1: the finance. Some people think the venue is too large 1812 01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:16,800 Speaker 1: or whatever. Does it work? I mean it works in 1813 01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:20,360 Speaker 1: the demonstration, you know, but that's a small scale thing. Well, 1814 01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:22,680 Speaker 1: you know, I think it can work, certainly, you know, 1815 01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:26,360 Speaker 1: but I think it's gonna be how do I want 1816 01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:28,320 Speaker 1: to say this? And you kind of say it the 1817 01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:32,720 Speaker 1: right way. It is all gonna come. It's gonna work 1818 01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:35,200 Speaker 1: better for certain styles of music than others, no doubt 1819 01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:39,200 Speaker 1: about it. I can't foresee certain styles of music actually 1820 01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:42,160 Speaker 1: benefiting from that. But the technology in and of itself 1821 01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:44,880 Speaker 1: and the functionality of it and the capability of it 1822 01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:49,439 Speaker 1: is super impressive. I mean, it's super impressive. It's going 1823 01:26:49,479 --> 01:26:51,560 Speaker 1: to get used in lots and lots of places. But 1824 01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:54,880 Speaker 1: you know, live music is a it's a particular animal, 1825 01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:58,519 Speaker 1: you know, especially live rock music, lave pop music. You know, 1826 01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:03,040 Speaker 1: it demands sir and things. And I'll be very interested 1827 01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:05,800 Speaker 1: to see how that translates in that style of venue, 1828 01:27:06,479 --> 01:27:08,280 Speaker 1: you know, with that kind of kind of approach, because 1829 01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:10,040 Speaker 1: they're making a lot of claims there where I kind 1830 01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:11,720 Speaker 1: of where I kind of brace myself a little bit 1831 01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:14,439 Speaker 1: and go, wait a minute, I'll be sure about this here. Okay, 1832 01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:17,400 Speaker 1: I need to hear that before I'm gonna sign off 1833 01:27:17,479 --> 01:27:19,439 Speaker 1: on that, you know. Okay, for those out of the loop, 1834 01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:23,000 Speaker 1: this is a concept where every seat gets to their 1835 01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:27,840 Speaker 1: own individual sound. Just reference why different types of music 1836 01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:30,800 Speaker 1: would be better or worse under those situations, you know, 1837 01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:33,240 Speaker 1: I mean, if I read the thing correctly, you know, 1838 01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:36,080 Speaker 1: the idea is that I can have a set of 1839 01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:40,200 Speaker 1: speakers that are focusing one thing into a zone of 1840 01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:43,160 Speaker 1: the audience, while you can be sitting a couple of 1841 01:27:43,160 --> 01:27:45,439 Speaker 1: seats away and not hear it at all. Right, I 1842 01:27:45,479 --> 01:27:49,559 Speaker 1: mean you can do this, I mean abject localization of audio. 1843 01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:52,680 Speaker 1: So that's where I kind of come from it as well. 1844 01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:55,240 Speaker 1: That's a very very powerful concept. I mean, I can 1845 01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:57,439 Speaker 1: see where that can be used very handily for a 1846 01:27:57,479 --> 01:27:59,920 Speaker 1: lot of things. But is that really what we want 1847 01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:04,600 Speaker 1: for concert sound? Right? I mean I I you know, 1848 01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:08,200 Speaker 1: I want the audience to have dare I say a 1849 01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:11,840 Speaker 1: unified experience here? Right? I want them all to be 1850 01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:14,120 Speaker 1: relating to the music that's kind of the same way. 1851 01:28:14,439 --> 01:28:16,439 Speaker 1: And it's you know, I mean, we we're never gonna 1852 01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:18,200 Speaker 1: get it. I don't think where every scene in the 1853 01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:21,040 Speaker 1: house sounds exactly the same. And I don't even know 1854 01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:22,800 Speaker 1: if I would want that. It's like, not every seat 1855 01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:25,160 Speaker 1: in the house looks the same. Why would I want 1856 01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:27,320 Speaker 1: it to sound exactly the same over there? I don't know. 1857 01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:29,200 Speaker 1: I'm a little I'm a little iffy with that at times. 1858 01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:31,760 Speaker 1: But you know, what I want is consistency. I want 1859 01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:34,400 Speaker 1: I want, you know, the engagement from the audience to 1860 01:28:34,439 --> 01:28:36,600 Speaker 1: be really, really good. And I can tell you as 1861 01:28:36,640 --> 01:28:39,559 Speaker 1: a concert sound mixer, I spend the night looking around 1862 01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:42,040 Speaker 1: that a building, and you can tell whether people are 1863 01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:43,840 Speaker 1: having a good show where they can hear a good 1864 01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:45,680 Speaker 1: show up there or not. You can tell but just 1865 01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:48,439 Speaker 1: by their engagement whether it's right. I don't need any 1866 01:28:48,520 --> 01:28:50,839 Speaker 1: microphones or any instruments to tell me whether the coverage 1867 01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:52,519 Speaker 1: is good. All I gotta do is watch the people. 1868 01:28:53,360 --> 01:28:55,240 Speaker 1: They'll tell me whether it's good. So how do you 1869 01:28:55,400 --> 01:29:00,360 Speaker 1: place the audience microphones in our arena? Well, typically they're 1870 01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:02,920 Speaker 1: placed there's a set that are placed up along the 1871 01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:05,040 Speaker 1: front plane of the play of the stage. You know. 1872 01:29:05,160 --> 01:29:08,479 Speaker 1: I'll typically have four to six microphones spaced out to 1873 01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:11,599 Speaker 1: kind of pick up the front field of the audience, 1874 01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:13,760 Speaker 1: and then I have some other ones out where I'm at. Like, 1875 01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:16,160 Speaker 1: I'll usually put a five point one mic which is 1876 01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:19,080 Speaker 1: a kind of a head, you know, it looks kind 1877 01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:21,439 Speaker 1: of like a head that's sitting right in the middle 1878 01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:24,000 Speaker 1: of the arena, and it picks up left, center, right, 1879 01:29:24,160 --> 01:29:27,439 Speaker 1: and surround in the rear, all in one microphone, and 1880 01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:29,559 Speaker 1: then I'll kind of support it with some other microphones 1881 01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:32,800 Speaker 1: out there so because it's it's one of the harder 1882 01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:34,920 Speaker 1: things to do in big arena sounds, get a good 1883 01:29:35,080 --> 01:29:37,720 Speaker 1: crowd capture, you know, a good crowd recording. Okay, let's 1884 01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:39,680 Speaker 1: go back to the beginning. You know, you sent me 1885 01:29:39,760 --> 01:29:43,479 Speaker 1: an article talking about an influential experience with Russell Pope, 1886 01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:47,360 Speaker 1: who was mixing Super Trip. I mean that album, you know, 1887 01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:49,840 Speaker 1: and there's a half speed Master version trying the entry, 1888 01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:52,639 Speaker 1: and that album is just, oh man, unbelievable what it says, 1889 01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:55,400 Speaker 1: what it sounds. It changed me. I mean, I mean 1890 01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:58,160 Speaker 1: the record changed me, and then the concert absolutely changed me. 1891 01:29:58,280 --> 01:30:03,240 Speaker 1: So was that really the lightbulb moment? Yeah, yeah, no 1892 01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:05,519 Speaker 1: doubt about it. Like I said that, that was the 1893 01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:09,600 Speaker 1: moment where because again you gotta keep it in context, right, 1894 01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:12,479 Speaker 1: this was V four Now, I mean I was a 1895 01:30:12,600 --> 01:30:16,000 Speaker 1: freshman in high school. Is at the Fox Theater in St. Louis, 1896 01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:19,439 Speaker 1: and you know, I mean I was a kid. I 1897 01:30:19,439 --> 01:30:20,560 Speaker 1: mean I was a kid who wanted to be a 1898 01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:22,080 Speaker 1: musician at that point. I mean I wanted to be 1899 01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:24,360 Speaker 1: Mitch Mitchell and the Jimmy Hendrix experience at that point, 1900 01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, that's who I wanted to be. And I 1901 01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:29,280 Speaker 1: didn't really know anything about production other than kind of 1902 01:30:29,360 --> 01:30:31,840 Speaker 1: what I've been able to kind of glean from, you know, 1903 01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:34,599 Speaker 1: pop rags and Rolling Stone and things like that. I mean, 1904 01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:36,720 Speaker 1: he just had no sense of really what it took 1905 01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:40,639 Speaker 1: to do that. And by that chance meeting with Russell, 1906 01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:43,240 Speaker 1: I got to see an actual mixer and you know, 1907 01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:46,040 Speaker 1: understand that there's a p A system up there. Now 1908 01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:48,720 Speaker 1: you know it's not you know, it's not just the 1909 01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:51,000 Speaker 1: guitar amps up there playing. We're actually miking it and 1910 01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:53,200 Speaker 1: mixing it back to the PA. So you know, it 1911 01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:57,080 Speaker 1: was this huge, huge awakening moment. And you know, kind 1912 01:30:57,080 --> 01:30:58,559 Speaker 1: of like I said in the article, I walked there 1913 01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:00,120 Speaker 1: and walked out of that thing and just going, oh, 1914 01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:02,920 Speaker 1: I know what I want to do, no question about it. 1915 01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:05,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to be a musician anymore. That's what 1916 01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:07,600 Speaker 1: I want to do right there. So how did you 1917 01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:12,400 Speaker 1: fulfill that dream? Well, that's a that's an interesting story 1918 01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:14,480 Speaker 1: for a night, you know, because by the time night 1919 01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:18,640 Speaker 1: rolled around when I was graduating, uh you know, I 1920 01:31:18,720 --> 01:31:21,040 Speaker 1: mean I remember going to my high school counselor and saying, Okay, 1921 01:31:21,080 --> 01:31:22,080 Speaker 1: this is what I want to do. I think I 1922 01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:25,120 Speaker 1: brought in some recording magazine It wasn't even a recording magazine. 1923 01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:27,400 Speaker 1: It was a magazine that was talking about right, had 1924 01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:29,479 Speaker 1: a recording console on it or something. I was like, 1925 01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:30,760 Speaker 1: this is what I want to do right here. And 1926 01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:33,479 Speaker 1: you know, at that time, you know, there were no 1927 01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:36,200 Speaker 1: recording schools, there was no there was none of that. 1928 01:31:36,240 --> 01:31:39,000 Speaker 1: I mean, it was truly truly cottage industry at that point. 1929 01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:41,120 Speaker 1: And he kind of looked at me and goes, well, 1930 01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:43,840 Speaker 1: it looks technical. Maybe should go in the army. You know. 1931 01:31:46,160 --> 01:31:50,439 Speaker 1: I was like, Nah, I'm not gonna in the army, dude, No, No. 1932 01:31:51,400 --> 01:31:53,240 Speaker 1: And you know, funny enough, you know, around that time, 1933 01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:56,640 Speaker 1: I mean this was eight, This was right at at 1934 01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:59,240 Speaker 1: the time that Boston came out with their first record, right, 1935 01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:02,080 Speaker 1: and all the mags we're running the story of Tom Schulz, 1936 01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:05,360 Speaker 1: which I just recently kind of rediscovered him here again recently, 1937 01:32:06,120 --> 01:32:08,519 Speaker 1: and you know, I for some reason, I got on 1938 01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:10,840 Speaker 1: fire with that. I was like, oh, this is so cool. 1939 01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:13,160 Speaker 1: I mean, here's a guy who was really technically adept. 1940 01:32:13,920 --> 01:32:16,280 Speaker 1: He's also a musician, you know, kind of a renaissance man, 1941 01:32:16,360 --> 01:32:20,479 Speaker 1: really right, you know, technically adept musician made this incredible record. 1942 01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:22,960 Speaker 1: And I remember when that record came out. There was 1943 01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:24,960 Speaker 1: two records that came out kind of that year or 1944 01:32:25,080 --> 01:32:27,200 Speaker 1: that era. It was that one and the first man 1945 01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:31,960 Speaker 1: Halen record, where it you know, really crystallized in my brain. 1946 01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:34,360 Speaker 1: At some point I was like, Wow, these records don't 1947 01:32:34,479 --> 01:32:38,599 Speaker 1: sound like any other record, Like, what is the deal here? Man? 1948 01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:41,200 Speaker 1: I mean, these things sound amazing, you know. And you 1949 01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:42,840 Speaker 1: know at that time, you have a stereo, right, I 1950 01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:46,519 Speaker 1: mean I remember just cranking that stereo up and listening 1951 01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:49,639 Speaker 1: to those those albums and just being the greatest thing, 1952 01:32:49,880 --> 01:32:51,560 Speaker 1: you know. So it was like, I've got it. I 1953 01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:53,280 Speaker 1: got to know how to do this. This is what 1954 01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:57,320 Speaker 1: I want to do, you know. And you know, as 1955 01:32:57,640 --> 01:33:01,760 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just you know, an episode of incidents, 1956 01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:06,040 Speaker 1: you know that that transpires. So we decide, and I 1957 01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:07,960 Speaker 1: think this is partly based on the Tom Schuls thing. 1958 01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:09,560 Speaker 1: We decide, Okay, what we need to do is go 1959 01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:12,080 Speaker 1: to an electronics institute and get you a degree there. 1960 01:33:12,160 --> 01:33:15,320 Speaker 1: That's what we need to do, right. So I signed 1961 01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:19,040 Speaker 1: up for this electronics place called Missouri Institute of Technology 1962 01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:22,320 Speaker 1: is one of the varie institutes, and I was going 1963 01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:24,920 Speaker 1: to go get a double E and electronic engineering, right, 1964 01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:26,880 Speaker 1: And I figured, well, this is the way you get in. 1965 01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:30,920 Speaker 1: So I'm I'm there for a good year. I mean, 1966 01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:33,040 Speaker 1: I went right out of high school. I was seventeen. 1967 01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:36,000 Speaker 1: I was in college by the time that summer even started, 1968 01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:40,160 Speaker 1: and you know, I was probably I don't know, maybe 1969 01:33:41,479 --> 01:33:43,720 Speaker 1: just a few months away from my bachelor's degree. And 1970 01:33:43,840 --> 01:33:47,720 Speaker 1: remember thinking this ain't it. I mean, I'm not doing 1971 01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:50,240 Speaker 1: I'm not learning anything about recording or live sound or 1972 01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:52,120 Speaker 1: any of this kind of stuff. I mean, this is 1973 01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:55,960 Speaker 1: this is not it. And it just so happened. On 1974 01:33:56,040 --> 01:33:58,400 Speaker 1: the bulletin board of the school, a local sound company 1975 01:33:58,439 --> 01:34:02,160 Speaker 1: in Kansas City, a company called Superior Sound, posted a 1976 01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:04,639 Speaker 1: one ad for people to come down and help out 1977 01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:06,840 Speaker 1: with these big concerts that they were doing down in 1978 01:34:06,920 --> 01:34:08,840 Speaker 1: this place called Brush Creek, which was right down in 1979 01:34:08,880 --> 01:34:12,479 Speaker 1: the high end district of Kansas City shopping district down there, 1980 01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:15,160 Speaker 1: and they would have ten, twelve, fourteen thousand people on 1981 01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:17,880 Speaker 1: a weekend for a free concert down there. So they 1982 01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:20,080 Speaker 1: needed help putting up the p a system, stage, everything. 1983 01:34:20,080 --> 01:34:22,320 Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, yeah, I'll go do this. So 1984 01:34:22,439 --> 01:34:24,760 Speaker 1: I go down there and I show up for the 1985 01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:28,800 Speaker 1: first gig, and you know, they they were excited about 1986 01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:31,000 Speaker 1: having me there because they was like, oh, electronics guy, Okay, 1987 01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:32,559 Speaker 1: he'll be good, he'll be able to help us out. 1988 01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:36,360 Speaker 1: I was horrible. It was absolutely horrible. I blew up 1989 01:34:36,360 --> 01:34:39,559 Speaker 1: a couple of amplifiers, all kinds of stuff, and they 1990 01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:41,840 Speaker 1: didn't invite me back. I wanted to go back the 1991 01:34:41,880 --> 01:34:43,960 Speaker 1: next weekend, and I was like, they didn't invite me back. 1992 01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:46,720 Speaker 1: And I was just heartbroken, you know. I was like, 1993 01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:49,439 Speaker 1: I've blown it, you know, that was my shot. So 1994 01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:52,560 Speaker 1: I just kept showing up. They wouldn't call me, but 1995 01:34:52,640 --> 01:34:54,479 Speaker 1: I would show up every weekend. And I did that 1996 01:34:54,720 --> 01:34:57,800 Speaker 1: entire summer series, just showing up. And by the end 1997 01:34:57,880 --> 01:34:59,040 Speaker 1: of it, you know, it was me and two or 1998 01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:00,639 Speaker 1: three other guys. We were the guys that were there 1999 01:35:00,720 --> 01:35:02,680 Speaker 1: every week and I knew the sound system as good 2000 01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:04,640 Speaker 1: as anybody by the end of the summer. And they 2001 01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:07,080 Speaker 1: ended up giving me a job after that and and 2002 01:35:07,240 --> 01:35:08,960 Speaker 1: going to work for them, and and it's luck have 2003 01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:11,439 Speaker 1: it would have it. I mean, I worked with an 2004 01:35:11,520 --> 01:35:14,720 Speaker 1: incredible set of mentors there. They were just those guys 2005 01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:18,120 Speaker 1: were really really knowledgeable. They understood how audio worked and 2006 01:35:18,439 --> 01:35:22,240 Speaker 1: really bread that into me. Thank god. Uh And and 2007 01:35:22,439 --> 01:35:25,040 Speaker 1: then then the next step of that was you know, uh, 2008 01:35:25,200 --> 01:35:27,479 Speaker 1: this band called Shooting Star out of Kansas City and 2009 01:35:27,960 --> 01:35:30,040 Speaker 1: you might remember, and they were did four or five 2010 01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:34,800 Speaker 1: records for Virgin Virgin Atlantic. Um Gus Dudgeon produced their 2011 01:35:34,840 --> 01:35:38,920 Speaker 1: first record. Ron Nevison produced one of the records. Anyway, 2012 01:35:38,960 --> 01:35:41,439 Speaker 1: I got hooked up with them, uh you know, from 2013 01:35:41,479 --> 01:35:43,360 Speaker 1: doing demos and all kinds of other stuff, and ended 2014 01:35:43,439 --> 01:35:45,439 Speaker 1: up going on the road with them, and we went 2015 01:35:45,479 --> 01:35:48,360 Speaker 1: out our first tour together. I mean I was nineteen 2016 01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:51,240 Speaker 1: twenty years old, barely I wouldn't even old enough to 2017 01:35:51,320 --> 01:35:53,600 Speaker 1: drink yet. You know. We were opening for Journey, we 2018 01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:56,599 Speaker 1: were opening Razizi Top. We wrote in a Jefferson starship, 2019 01:35:57,320 --> 01:36:00,160 Speaker 1: et cetera. And I was lucky enough to part lay 2020 01:36:00,200 --> 01:36:02,519 Speaker 1: that into a career. I mean I met everybody and 2021 01:36:02,680 --> 01:36:06,439 Speaker 1: and got exposed to a very big, high level concert 2022 01:36:06,479 --> 01:36:08,560 Speaker 1: experience at a really really young age. I mean I 2023 01:36:08,640 --> 01:36:10,400 Speaker 1: didn't really come up through the clubs. I mean I 2024 01:36:11,160 --> 01:36:13,280 Speaker 1: started out at that level, you know. So I was 2025 01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:16,519 Speaker 1: very very fortunate, very lucky. What'd your parents say about 2026 01:36:16,600 --> 01:36:22,600 Speaker 1: your dreaming career choice? They were not too impressed. You know. 2027 01:36:22,720 --> 01:36:24,320 Speaker 1: It's funny, you know, my mom and dad were not 2028 01:36:24,439 --> 01:36:28,240 Speaker 1: impressed until there was two things that made it kind 2029 01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:30,519 Speaker 1: of okay. I went off to do some shows with 2030 01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:35,840 Speaker 1: Tammy Wynett. It was like, well, anyway, you're working with Tammy. Okay, 2031 01:36:35,880 --> 01:36:37,479 Speaker 1: wait a minute, and I'll tell us more about this, 2032 01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:39,120 Speaker 1: you know. Then all of a sudden it was it 2033 01:36:39,200 --> 01:36:42,120 Speaker 1: was kind of okay. And then my dad was you know, 2034 01:36:42,280 --> 01:36:44,920 Speaker 1: he was kind of an engineer guy, mechanical engineer. I 2035 01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:48,160 Speaker 1: mean he was really kind of a savant mechanically, uh, 2036 01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:50,560 Speaker 1: and worked on all these this heavy equipment, all this 2037 01:36:50,640 --> 01:36:53,760 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. And I invited him. He never got 2038 01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:55,479 Speaker 1: to go see a show until I was working for 2039 01:36:55,560 --> 01:36:58,040 Speaker 1: Deaf Leopard, which was in the late you know, mid 2040 01:36:58,080 --> 01:37:00,680 Speaker 1: in the late eighties, and he showed up one day 2041 01:37:00,680 --> 01:37:04,840 Speaker 1: and once he saw all the semi trucks and all 2042 01:37:04,920 --> 01:37:07,360 Speaker 1: the all the chain motors, you know, putting all this 2043 01:37:07,640 --> 01:37:09,800 Speaker 1: style of stuff out and play, then he was all in. 2044 01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:11,519 Speaker 1: He was like, oh my gosh, this is the coolest 2045 01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:13,320 Speaker 1: thing I've ever seen. Can you get me some of 2046 01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:16,680 Speaker 1: those chain motors? I need some of those. It was 2047 01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:19,640 Speaker 1: pretty cool and where they were great with it from 2048 01:37:19,640 --> 01:37:22,120 Speaker 1: then point on. Obviously, Okay, if you're working with Shooting 2049 01:37:22,200 --> 01:37:24,760 Speaker 1: Star and you're cutting demos, was there ever a time 2050 01:37:25,040 --> 01:37:27,280 Speaker 1: you said, well, maybe I should work in the studios 2051 01:37:27,280 --> 01:37:29,000 Speaker 1: sup post to live. Well, I did a lot of 2052 01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:31,000 Speaker 1: studio work during that time because I needed to make 2053 01:37:31,040 --> 01:37:33,600 Speaker 1: a living. So there was studios in town that I 2054 01:37:33,720 --> 01:37:36,799 Speaker 1: was working in at the time, and kind of moonlighting 2055 01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:39,360 Speaker 1: in the studios, kind of moonlighting at the sound company, etcetera. 2056 01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:42,679 Speaker 1: But you know, I mean it was a great learning experience, 2057 01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:44,600 Speaker 1: and that's why I always promoted you know, it's like, 2058 01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:46,080 Speaker 1: hey man, you want to get in and learn how 2059 01:37:46,160 --> 01:37:48,360 Speaker 1: to listen and learn how to hear because you know, 2060 01:37:48,400 --> 01:37:49,800 Speaker 1: I'll say it right here, I say this all the 2061 01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:53,439 Speaker 1: time I'm mixing clinics. Mixing is not a technical skill. 2062 01:37:54,120 --> 01:37:57,120 Speaker 1: It's a listening skill. It's not a technical skill. You're 2063 01:37:57,160 --> 01:38:01,560 Speaker 1: just using the the technology to present a vision that 2064 01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:03,800 Speaker 1: you have in your head. You know, you have to 2065 01:38:04,240 --> 01:38:06,760 Speaker 1: if you want to mix music, You've got to understand music, 2066 01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:11,040 Speaker 1: not technology. You've gotta have music sensibilities. You gotta understand 2067 01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:13,479 Speaker 1: why I go for this sound in that genre music, 2068 01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:14,960 Speaker 1: and I go for this sound in the genre music. 2069 01:38:15,000 --> 01:38:17,920 Speaker 1: You have to be well studied in music, not technology. 2070 01:38:18,200 --> 01:38:19,759 Speaker 1: I mean, you still have to understand how to operate 2071 01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:21,519 Speaker 1: it don't get me wrong, But the guy that are 2072 01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:25,400 Speaker 1: guys that are really really excellent edit understand music and 2073 01:38:25,560 --> 01:38:29,320 Speaker 1: understand how to present it, you know. So, uh, that's 2074 01:38:29,360 --> 01:38:31,080 Speaker 1: what the studio will do for you, you know, you 2075 01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:34,320 Speaker 1: because you're digging in at such a finite level there, 2076 01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:36,240 Speaker 1: you know, at such a detailed level there you you 2077 01:38:36,479 --> 01:38:39,759 Speaker 1: understand what makes music tick. You have to in that situation. 2078 01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:41,560 Speaker 1: And if you can go out and start applying that 2079 01:38:41,640 --> 01:38:44,360 Speaker 1: in live sound, you're you're going to be good. You're 2080 01:38:44,360 --> 01:38:46,720 Speaker 1: gonna be really good. The guys, the best guys that 2081 01:38:46,800 --> 01:38:48,559 Speaker 1: I see that do this job usually start out as 2082 01:38:48,680 --> 01:38:51,880 Speaker 1: musicians and that builds their music sensibility, and then it's 2083 01:38:51,880 --> 01:38:54,960 Speaker 1: a matter of expanding and broadening your taste into production techniques, 2084 01:38:55,080 --> 01:38:57,719 Speaker 1: you know, which speaks to your ears and your hearing, 2085 01:38:58,720 --> 01:39:02,559 Speaker 1: you know, just jically, everybody loses a certain amount as 2086 01:39:02,600 --> 01:39:06,280 Speaker 1: they get older. To what degree are you conscious of that? 2087 01:39:06,560 --> 01:39:10,560 Speaker 1: Protect yourself? Worried about it? Well, I've had this discussion 2088 01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:12,560 Speaker 1: a couple that I actually didn't had this discussion on 2089 01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:15,400 Speaker 1: another podcast with another group of mixers where we were 2090 01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:17,360 Speaker 1: talking about this. And you know, when I was living 2091 01:39:17,400 --> 01:39:19,599 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, I used to get my hearing checked 2092 01:39:19,600 --> 01:39:21,840 Speaker 1: every year. I mean, and I still get it checked regularly. 2093 01:39:21,880 --> 01:39:25,160 Speaker 1: I'm I'm probably about two years away from my last check. 2094 01:39:26,240 --> 01:39:28,960 Speaker 1: But what I in doing that, I had a regular 2095 01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:31,680 Speaker 1: audiologist and he really explained a lot of things to 2096 01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:33,920 Speaker 1: me and set me up for really great success with 2097 01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:36,200 Speaker 1: my hearing. And I've put this on other people as well, 2098 01:39:36,720 --> 01:39:39,240 Speaker 1: and his his his take on it was really interesting 2099 01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:41,800 Speaker 1: because he was also a guy who did audiology for 2100 01:39:41,880 --> 01:39:44,519 Speaker 1: a lot of mixing engineers around town, like he did 2101 01:39:44,520 --> 01:39:46,280 Speaker 1: a lot of scoring engineers and a lot of other 2102 01:39:46,520 --> 01:39:48,720 Speaker 1: like rock mixer guys. I just have to ask this 2103 01:39:48,880 --> 01:39:51,200 Speaker 1: at the house clinic, where'd you find this guy? And 2104 01:39:51,280 --> 01:39:53,880 Speaker 1: my tax guy referred to me believe it or not, 2105 01:39:54,880 --> 01:39:56,720 Speaker 1: because you know, if he knew all the all these 2106 01:39:56,800 --> 01:39:59,640 Speaker 1: other people from doing their taxes, but you know, the 2107 01:39:59,760 --> 01:40:01,439 Speaker 1: thing pointed out to me. He says, Look, you know, 2108 01:40:01,840 --> 01:40:04,320 Speaker 1: everybody's worried about you concert guys, you know, and the 2109 01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:06,679 Speaker 1: volume and everything. He said, I'm not worried about you guys. 2110 01:40:07,240 --> 01:40:09,080 Speaker 1: He says, your hearing is going to be fine because 2111 01:40:09,120 --> 01:40:11,920 Speaker 1: you're only exposed to it for short amount of short 2112 01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:15,120 Speaker 1: amounts of time. Even though it's high volume, it's not high. 2113 01:40:15,200 --> 01:40:19,560 Speaker 1: You know, it's not at these deafening volumes entirely for 2114 01:40:19,680 --> 01:40:22,080 Speaker 1: two hours at a time. It's it's in peaks and valleys, 2115 01:40:22,240 --> 01:40:24,880 Speaker 1: he said. The guys that have the most trouble are 2116 01:40:24,920 --> 01:40:26,600 Speaker 1: the guys that are sitting in fair of a in 2117 01:40:26,680 --> 01:40:30,320 Speaker 1: front of a pair of small speakers for eight ten 2118 01:40:30,680 --> 01:40:34,000 Speaker 1: twelve hours a day, he says. You know, he says, 2119 01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:35,879 Speaker 1: I got, I know. Scoring guys that are doing symphony, 2120 01:40:36,439 --> 01:40:38,200 Speaker 1: he said, that are working, you know, eight ten twelve 2121 01:40:38,240 --> 01:40:40,200 Speaker 1: hours a day, he says. You would not believe how 2122 01:40:40,240 --> 01:40:42,479 Speaker 1: bad they're hearing is he said, And they're listening in 2123 01:40:42,560 --> 01:40:45,960 Speaker 1: just at moderate levels. But it's repetitive, he says, it's worried, 2124 01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:48,920 Speaker 1: it's just constantly working. So one of the things he 2125 01:40:49,000 --> 01:40:51,879 Speaker 1: advised to me was that try to stay away from headphones. 2126 01:40:52,040 --> 01:40:54,920 Speaker 1: So that's the first thing, uh, he said, at the 2127 01:40:55,040 --> 01:40:57,479 Speaker 1: end of the night. If you know, if your ears 2128 01:40:57,479 --> 01:41:00,400 Speaker 1: are tired, put in some of your plugs so you 2129 01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:03,240 Speaker 1: average in some really really quiet time and give your 2130 01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:05,840 Speaker 1: ears a chance to recover, he says, And you're you're 2131 01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:07,519 Speaker 1: gonna be fine over time, he says, if you can 2132 01:41:07,600 --> 01:41:10,720 Speaker 1: just stay away from high impulse things. He says, if 2133 01:41:10,760 --> 01:41:13,439 Speaker 1: you go to the shooting range, make sure you double protect, 2134 01:41:13,520 --> 01:41:15,960 Speaker 1: he said, do twice as much protection as you think, 2135 01:41:16,240 --> 01:41:18,680 Speaker 1: because that impulse is the one that's that's going to 2136 01:41:18,840 --> 01:41:21,240 Speaker 1: kill your hearing. For sure. It's a gunshot. That kind 2137 01:41:21,280 --> 01:41:23,320 Speaker 1: of impulse would do you in. It's about drummers have 2138 01:41:23,400 --> 01:41:27,439 Speaker 1: a really typically have a bad time with with hearing, 2139 01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:30,479 Speaker 1: you know, because it's very high impulse, high impact audio 2140 01:41:30,560 --> 01:41:32,920 Speaker 1: a little bit slower. How did you get from Shooting 2141 01:41:33,080 --> 01:41:37,679 Speaker 1: Star up the ladder? Well? Uh, like I said, Shooting 2142 01:41:37,720 --> 01:41:41,360 Speaker 1: Star was opening for all these acts, and uh, you 2143 01:41:41,400 --> 01:41:43,160 Speaker 1: know in those days, I mean, you know, you kind 2144 01:41:43,160 --> 01:41:44,360 Speaker 1: of had to be a little bit of a jack 2145 01:41:44,400 --> 01:41:46,640 Speaker 1: of all trades. So not only was I mixing, I 2146 01:41:46,760 --> 01:41:48,880 Speaker 1: was also the drum road on the tour, you know, 2147 01:41:49,040 --> 01:41:51,800 Speaker 1: set up the drums and tune him everything. Uh. And 2148 01:41:51,960 --> 01:41:54,479 Speaker 1: that got me a job because I think we had 2149 01:41:54,520 --> 01:41:58,240 Speaker 1: done some some um tour, some shows with John Mellencamp 2150 01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:02,479 Speaker 1: at that point early eighties there. Uh, right when John 2151 01:42:02,520 --> 01:42:03,760 Speaker 1: was getting ready to go out and do the Pink 2152 01:42:03,800 --> 01:42:06,160 Speaker 1: Houses tour, one of the guys that I knew from 2153 01:42:06,240 --> 01:42:08,240 Speaker 1: that tour called me and said, Kenny Arnolfs looking for 2154 01:42:08,240 --> 01:42:09,439 Speaker 1: a drum guy. You want to come out and do it. 2155 01:42:10,520 --> 01:42:12,600 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I'll come out and do it. So 2156 01:42:12,760 --> 01:42:16,000 Speaker 1: I was Kenny Arnolf's drum tech for about a tour. 2157 01:42:16,360 --> 01:42:19,599 Speaker 1: And during that period, you know, there was a sound 2158 01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:22,080 Speaker 1: company working on the thing, and you know, what am 2159 01:42:22,080 --> 01:42:24,160 Speaker 1: I gonna do when I'm when the drums are set up? 2160 01:42:24,160 --> 01:42:25,760 Speaker 1: I got nothing to do until we get ready to 2161 01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:28,160 Speaker 1: go back. So I started working with this SA guys 2162 01:42:28,200 --> 01:42:29,800 Speaker 1: on the sound crew and helping him put up the 2163 01:42:29,840 --> 01:42:31,679 Speaker 1: p A every day, you know, blah blah blah blah. 2164 01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:34,559 Speaker 1: And that led to a job with that sound company, 2165 01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:38,280 Speaker 1: and then from there, you know, convinced them a little bit, 2166 01:42:38,360 --> 01:42:42,080 Speaker 1: a little bit slower. In your legacy information, it says 2167 01:42:42,120 --> 01:42:44,559 Speaker 1: you were the monitor mixer and you got fired by 2168 01:42:44,680 --> 01:42:47,000 Speaker 1: Melon cap Oh. I did, Yeah, I mean that was 2169 01:42:47,200 --> 01:42:50,560 Speaker 1: that was a watershed moment for me. I mean, no 2170 01:42:50,680 --> 01:42:52,360 Speaker 1: doubt about it. I mean, and so, how did you 2171 01:42:52,439 --> 01:42:55,000 Speaker 1: become the monitor mixer? Was that just after you were 2172 01:42:55,040 --> 01:42:57,200 Speaker 1: the drum roady? Yeah? So I did drum roading on 2173 01:42:57,280 --> 01:42:59,840 Speaker 1: the Pink Houses tour and then the next door they 2174 01:42:59,880 --> 01:43:01,800 Speaker 1: were going to move to another monitor engineer, and I 2175 01:43:01,960 --> 01:43:03,920 Speaker 1: lobbied for that position. I said, I can do that. 2176 01:43:04,240 --> 01:43:09,280 Speaker 1: Let me do that right, And technically, I mean I 2177 01:43:09,439 --> 01:43:11,760 Speaker 1: was more than capable of doing it without a doubt. 2178 01:43:11,800 --> 01:43:14,240 Speaker 1: But you know, I actually had a guy and go 2179 01:43:14,320 --> 01:43:15,840 Speaker 1: through a little bit of a crucible there, and I 2180 01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:19,879 Speaker 1: learned something about myself there, because I mean, John's reputation 2181 01:43:20,000 --> 01:43:21,640 Speaker 1: kind of precedes him. You know, everybody knows he's a 2182 01:43:21,720 --> 01:43:25,320 Speaker 1: very very difficult guy to work with. And you know, honestly, 2183 01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:27,439 Speaker 1: of all honesty, I was not mature enough for that gig. 2184 01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:30,800 Speaker 1: I was not mature enough to handle him as if 2185 01:43:30,840 --> 01:43:32,920 Speaker 1: you're going to handle him, but just not mature enough 2186 01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:35,960 Speaker 1: to deal with him properly. And he saw it. I 2187 01:43:36,040 --> 01:43:38,120 Speaker 1: mean he saw me as being a little weak and 2188 01:43:38,240 --> 01:43:39,280 Speaker 1: he was going to go out and do a big 2189 01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:41,360 Speaker 1: tour there, and he was just like, I can't have 2190 01:43:41,479 --> 01:43:42,920 Speaker 1: this guy sitting on the side of the stage. I 2191 01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:45,680 Speaker 1: gotta have somebody I know has it together here and 2192 01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:48,479 Speaker 1: can and can deal with me. And I wasn't that guy. 2193 01:43:48,520 --> 01:43:51,320 Speaker 1: I just wasn't mature enough yet to do it. And 2194 01:43:51,680 --> 01:43:54,679 Speaker 1: you know, I had to kind of have a little 2195 01:43:54,680 --> 01:43:56,800 Speaker 1: look in the mirror there and kind of go, Okay, dude, 2196 01:43:56,800 --> 01:43:59,840 Speaker 1: if you're gonna do this work, you know, there's more 2197 01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:01,800 Speaker 1: to it. Then just being able to technically do it. 2198 01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:04,080 Speaker 1: You've got to be able to interface with people and 2199 01:44:05,240 --> 01:44:07,320 Speaker 1: work with them and deal with them on their levels, 2200 01:44:07,400 --> 01:44:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, and that is not a technical level. That's 2201 01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:11,680 Speaker 1: a personality thing. You've got to learn to hang and 2202 01:44:11,880 --> 01:44:13,240 Speaker 1: and be able to do it. So, you know, it 2203 01:44:13,320 --> 01:44:16,320 Speaker 1: kind of reshaped my thinking and what I was watching 2204 01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:18,000 Speaker 1: and what I was doing from that point forward. I 2205 01:44:18,200 --> 01:44:19,800 Speaker 1: used it to great effect when I went to work 2206 01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:22,920 Speaker 1: for Prince said that all came right around and I 2207 01:44:23,600 --> 01:44:25,360 Speaker 1: used every lesson I learned on that tour on that 2208 01:44:25,439 --> 01:44:28,000 Speaker 1: Prince Store. Okay, if you go to a recording studio, 2209 01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:32,920 Speaker 1: the engineer, generally speaking, is quiet and a yes man. 2210 01:44:33,600 --> 01:44:37,880 Speaker 1: He is not an individual with character saying no. That 2211 01:44:38,040 --> 01:44:42,200 Speaker 1: might be the producer. So as a front of fall engineer, 2212 01:44:42,840 --> 01:44:45,200 Speaker 1: you know, what kind of personality do you need? Do 2213 01:44:45,280 --> 01:44:47,400 Speaker 1: you know that, Hey, I can't push too much. That's 2214 01:44:47,439 --> 01:44:49,519 Speaker 1: just not my role. You've gotta be able to read it. 2215 01:44:50,200 --> 01:44:52,200 Speaker 1: You gotta be able to read the person and see 2216 01:44:52,240 --> 01:44:54,760 Speaker 1: where you can go with it, you know. I mean 2217 01:44:54,800 --> 01:44:56,920 Speaker 1: where I ended up with Tom Petty versus where I 2218 01:44:56,960 --> 01:44:59,719 Speaker 1: started with Tom Petty were two very very different places. 2219 01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:02,160 Speaker 1: You Yeah, it's it's earned, it's not given. You know, 2220 01:45:02,280 --> 01:45:05,120 Speaker 1: you have to you have to earn that voice in 2221 01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:07,720 Speaker 1: that room for sure. Well, you tell the story in 2222 01:45:07,800 --> 01:45:11,600 Speaker 1: one of your publications about telling Tom to change his 2223 01:45:11,720 --> 01:45:13,800 Speaker 1: money and he says, the last guy who said that 2224 01:45:14,080 --> 01:45:16,880 Speaker 1: it's no longer here right before he was gone. Yeah, 2225 01:45:18,680 --> 01:45:20,479 Speaker 1: So you know, luckily I was smart enough when that 2226 01:45:20,520 --> 01:45:22,040 Speaker 1: happened to go, you know what, Tom, We're just gonna 2227 01:45:22,080 --> 01:45:23,680 Speaker 1: give that mike another try for a little bit. We're 2228 01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:25,080 Speaker 1: gonna we're just gonna work with that one for a 2229 01:45:25,120 --> 01:45:27,120 Speaker 1: little bit. But I mean it's a perfect example of 2230 01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:28,680 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. You know, I tried to come 2231 01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:32,160 Speaker 1: in probably a little too heavy handed there, and but 2232 01:45:32,400 --> 01:45:34,639 Speaker 1: but over time, you know that that completely turned around 2233 01:45:34,640 --> 01:45:38,320 Speaker 1: where you know, Tom was very reliant on me for 2234 01:45:38,439 --> 01:45:40,360 Speaker 1: what we were going to do, and you know he 2235 01:45:40,479 --> 01:45:42,439 Speaker 1: was I mean, I'm very proud to say he was 2236 01:45:42,479 --> 01:45:44,599 Speaker 1: on record as saying, I'll never do it without that guy. 2237 01:45:44,840 --> 01:45:47,760 Speaker 1: So if he's not available, I'm not available to go 2238 01:45:47,840 --> 01:45:50,479 Speaker 1: on the road. So that was probably the highest compliment 2239 01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:52,439 Speaker 1: I've ever gotten in my life, that's for sure. Okay, 2240 01:45:52,600 --> 01:45:55,080 Speaker 1: so you ultimately got him to change the mike. How 2241 01:45:55,160 --> 01:45:59,240 Speaker 1: did you do that, well, you know, again, you have 2242 01:45:59,400 --> 01:46:01,720 Speaker 1: to get a you end up having to have some 2243 01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:05,920 Speaker 1: credibility at some point. And uh, I mean, I'll tell 2244 01:46:05,960 --> 01:46:09,479 Speaker 1: the story. So we were that first tour had finished 2245 01:46:09,479 --> 01:46:13,160 Speaker 1: and we had stayed on the particular microphone. I won't 2246 01:46:13,240 --> 01:46:16,000 Speaker 1: name names here, so but it was just the wrong 2247 01:46:16,040 --> 01:46:19,080 Speaker 1: mac phone for the application. So we come around to 2248 01:46:19,160 --> 01:46:22,080 Speaker 1: the next tour now and we're in production rehearsals, et cetera. 2249 01:46:22,280 --> 01:46:24,240 Speaker 1: And I was like, Okay, it's either going to be 2250 01:46:24,320 --> 01:46:26,080 Speaker 1: the mic or me. I'm not going to survive another 2251 01:46:26,120 --> 01:46:29,280 Speaker 1: tour with that microphone. So I had another microphone that 2252 01:46:29,280 --> 01:46:30,960 Speaker 1: I thought was gonna be a really good choice for him. 2253 01:46:30,960 --> 01:46:32,000 Speaker 1: So I just went up and put it on the 2254 01:46:32,040 --> 01:46:33,720 Speaker 1: stand and plugged it in, and I said, to the 2255 01:46:33,800 --> 01:46:36,840 Speaker 1: monitor guy, do what you need to do. This is 2256 01:46:36,840 --> 01:46:39,000 Speaker 1: going to be this way until he tells me that 2257 01:46:39,240 --> 01:46:40,800 Speaker 1: we need to change it. All right, I'm just gonna 2258 01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:44,280 Speaker 1: see where we're gonna go here. So he came in 2259 01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:47,080 Speaker 1: and he, you know, immediately was like, wow, what what 2260 01:46:47,160 --> 01:46:49,840 Speaker 1: the heck is this? You know? And I came walking 2261 01:46:49,880 --> 01:46:51,320 Speaker 1: from the front of house up to him and I said, look, 2262 01:46:51,360 --> 01:46:53,599 Speaker 1: I want I want you just to try this, I said, 2263 01:46:53,640 --> 01:46:56,560 Speaker 1: we're really in early in rehearsals here. Just give it 2264 01:46:56,600 --> 01:46:59,200 Speaker 1: a try, see what you think. If it starts to 2265 01:46:59,280 --> 01:47:01,280 Speaker 1: feel good, then I want you to give it a try. 2266 01:47:01,280 --> 01:47:02,640 Speaker 1: If you hate it, then we'll go back to the 2267 01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:04,360 Speaker 1: end of micro alright, So but just give it a try. 2268 01:47:05,360 --> 01:47:07,519 Speaker 1: So the band kicks in. They do two or three songs, 2269 01:47:08,360 --> 01:47:10,600 Speaker 1: and I can see he's still kind of processing, you know, 2270 01:47:10,680 --> 01:47:12,800 Speaker 1: he's I can see his head kind of working, going 2271 01:47:13,160 --> 01:47:14,640 Speaker 1: is this really as good as I think it is 2272 01:47:14,760 --> 01:47:16,960 Speaker 1: right now? You know what's going on here? Can I 2273 01:47:17,040 --> 01:47:20,120 Speaker 1: really trust this? And luckily, I mean I think it's 2274 01:47:20,160 --> 01:47:24,720 Speaker 1: what saved me and the whole thing almost as it 2275 01:47:24,840 --> 01:47:28,599 Speaker 1: was happening, you know Howie and Scott Thurston both chimed 2276 01:47:28,680 --> 01:47:31,800 Speaker 1: in together at the same time and said, wow, we 2277 01:47:31,920 --> 01:47:34,639 Speaker 1: can hear you really really clearly over here right now, 2278 01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:38,120 Speaker 1: like it's so easy to sing to your voice right now. 2279 01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:41,360 Speaker 1: I mean, they were and it was totally imprompted and unscripted. 2280 01:47:41,400 --> 01:47:43,479 Speaker 1: I didn't ask him to do it. It just came 2281 01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:46,680 Speaker 1: out of, you know, organically, out of the conversation. And 2282 01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:48,800 Speaker 1: from that moment on we were on that microphone. We 2283 01:47:48,920 --> 01:47:51,840 Speaker 1: didn't change that microphone for years. You know, Okay, let's 2284 01:47:51,880 --> 01:47:54,560 Speaker 1: go back. So you're with the Sound company. You know, 2285 01:47:54,640 --> 01:47:56,560 Speaker 1: you you finished Smith Mellot Camp, you go with the 2286 01:47:56,600 --> 01:47:59,800 Speaker 1: sum company. What's the next step after that? Next step 2287 01:47:59,800 --> 01:48:01,960 Speaker 1: after that was really going to work for the Sound company. 2288 01:48:02,000 --> 01:48:04,320 Speaker 1: I went to work for this company called Electrotech, which 2289 01:48:04,479 --> 01:48:07,880 Speaker 1: was kind of uh an after version of t f 2290 01:48:07,960 --> 01:48:11,120 Speaker 1: A Electro Sound, one of the more famous stalwart companies 2291 01:48:11,160 --> 01:48:13,760 Speaker 1: that kind of started this industry. They were out of 2292 01:48:13,800 --> 01:48:16,680 Speaker 1: Canoga Park, California. So I moved to California. I went 2293 01:48:16,760 --> 01:48:18,559 Speaker 1: to work for the Sound Company and was just taking 2294 01:48:18,600 --> 01:48:20,439 Speaker 1: gig any gig I could get my hands on at 2295 01:48:20,479 --> 01:48:23,040 Speaker 1: that point. And then another gig came up to mix 2296 01:48:23,120 --> 01:48:26,760 Speaker 1: for the Go Goes, So I took that I and 2297 01:48:27,200 --> 01:48:28,680 Speaker 1: had a really great time on that. It was very 2298 01:48:28,680 --> 01:48:31,080 Speaker 1: successful on that. And then the next thing that came 2299 01:48:31,160 --> 01:48:35,160 Speaker 1: my way mixing wise, let's say I did Rick Springfield 2300 01:48:35,240 --> 01:48:38,040 Speaker 1: in there for a period of time, and then really 2301 01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:40,040 Speaker 1: the next the next kind of big opportunity that came 2302 01:48:40,080 --> 01:48:41,360 Speaker 1: my way, and it really just kind of fell in 2303 01:48:41,439 --> 01:48:43,960 Speaker 1: my lap because nobody else wanted to take it. Ironically, 2304 01:48:43,960 --> 01:48:47,439 Speaker 1: at the time, I was mixing Alice Cooper and this 2305 01:48:47,600 --> 01:48:49,639 Speaker 1: was right when Alice was trying to make her comeback. 2306 01:48:49,680 --> 01:48:52,200 Speaker 1: You know, this was he had been down and you know, 2307 01:48:52,240 --> 01:48:54,000 Speaker 1: out of the business really for a period of years there. 2308 01:48:54,040 --> 01:48:57,920 Speaker 1: This was I think something like that at eight five 2309 01:48:58,000 --> 01:49:00,400 Speaker 1: it was you know, Nightmare Returns where it was his 2310 01:49:00,479 --> 01:49:02,680 Speaker 1: first time back, and I jumped all over it. I 2311 01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:04,840 Speaker 1: wanted to mix that so bad. I was a huge 2312 01:49:04,880 --> 01:49:07,519 Speaker 1: Alice Cooper fan when I was a kid. It was 2313 01:49:07,600 --> 01:49:09,360 Speaker 1: one of one of the very first concerts I ever 2314 01:49:09,400 --> 01:49:10,800 Speaker 1: got to go see. My mom took me to go 2315 01:49:10,880 --> 01:49:13,439 Speaker 1: see it when I was a young teenager and I 2316 01:49:13,600 --> 01:49:15,760 Speaker 1: was totally hooked on him. I just thought they were 2317 01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:18,240 Speaker 1: the greatest records and still do to this day. There 2318 01:49:18,400 --> 01:49:21,320 Speaker 1: were just those those early bob Ezrian records were just 2319 01:49:21,479 --> 01:49:24,600 Speaker 1: sensational from him. I read a review that raved I 2320 01:49:24,640 --> 01:49:26,799 Speaker 1: didn't know if it was a joke and Rolling Stone, 2321 01:49:26,920 --> 01:49:29,240 Speaker 1: So I bought the record. I dropped the needle and 2322 01:49:29,400 --> 01:49:34,439 Speaker 1: I heard under my wheels. I was closed instantly, Am 2323 01:49:34,479 --> 01:49:37,519 Speaker 1: I right? So absolutely? I mean it was just and 2324 01:49:38,040 --> 01:49:40,040 Speaker 1: I can go back and listen to those records today 2325 01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:42,280 Speaker 1: and relive them. So long story short, I mean I 2326 01:49:42,360 --> 01:49:44,040 Speaker 1: jumped all over it. I was like, oh, I will 2327 01:49:44,600 --> 01:49:48,240 Speaker 1: do anything to mix that tour, you know, and okay, 2328 01:49:48,280 --> 01:49:50,599 Speaker 1: so you'll get the whole DNA here. So on that tour, 2329 01:49:52,040 --> 01:49:55,160 Speaker 1: one of the opening acts was Tesla. So that's my 2330 01:49:55,280 --> 01:49:59,439 Speaker 1: first interaction with Peter Mention and Cliff Bernstein, right, So 2331 01:49:59,560 --> 01:50:02,760 Speaker 1: they're out hearing me mix on this tour, and you know, 2332 01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:04,719 Speaker 1: I mean it was pretty kind of a low rent production. 2333 01:50:04,800 --> 01:50:07,479 Speaker 1: I mean, it was tough to make it sound really big, 2334 01:50:07,560 --> 01:50:10,920 Speaker 1: and we didn't have very much PA system, etcetera. But 2335 01:50:11,080 --> 01:50:13,479 Speaker 1: you know, I in those days and I still do 2336 01:50:13,560 --> 01:50:16,559 Speaker 1: it to to this day. You know, I'm always recording 2337 01:50:16,640 --> 01:50:18,320 Speaker 1: what I'm doing on the console. At that point, I 2338 01:50:18,400 --> 01:50:20,479 Speaker 1: was recording to cassettes, and you know, i'd go back 2339 01:50:20,520 --> 01:50:21,800 Speaker 1: and listen to it at the end of the night 2340 01:50:21,840 --> 01:50:23,719 Speaker 1: and kind of review what I was doing and go, Okay, 2341 01:50:23,720 --> 01:50:25,040 Speaker 1: I know what I need to do there now. And 2342 01:50:25,160 --> 01:50:28,280 Speaker 1: so it was just study tapes. You know. Well, during 2343 01:50:28,320 --> 01:50:31,439 Speaker 1: this period, somehow, and I've said this before and I 2344 01:50:31,800 --> 01:50:36,040 Speaker 1: still don't know how, but somehow, during this period, Joe 2345 01:50:36,120 --> 01:50:39,559 Speaker 1: Elliott got ahold of one of my desk tapes, one 2346 01:50:39,640 --> 01:50:42,679 Speaker 1: of my board tapes. It might have been through Ross Halfen. 2347 01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:45,640 Speaker 1: The photography was after shooting Tesla. It might have been 2348 01:50:45,760 --> 01:50:47,720 Speaker 1: I don't know, I swear to you, I don't know. 2349 01:50:47,920 --> 01:50:49,720 Speaker 1: It might have been through Brian Wheat. He might have 2350 01:50:49,800 --> 01:50:53,800 Speaker 1: gotten it to him. I don't know. But you know, 2351 01:50:53,880 --> 01:50:57,479 Speaker 1: the tour ends and I'm kind of working on thinking 2352 01:50:57,479 --> 01:50:59,240 Speaker 1: about what's going to be my next move. You know, 2353 01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:02,200 Speaker 1: Deaf Leppard is in working on Hysteria now for god 2354 01:51:02,320 --> 01:51:04,200 Speaker 1: knows how long. You know, it's getting ready to release. 2355 01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:06,800 Speaker 1: But you know, I'm not really visible to that, and 2356 01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:09,679 Speaker 1: but I know that Cliff and Peter are also doing 2357 01:51:09,920 --> 01:51:12,080 Speaker 1: They also managed Docking at the point at that point, 2358 01:51:12,120 --> 01:51:13,320 Speaker 1: and I remember thinking, you know what I'd love to 2359 01:51:13,439 --> 01:51:15,600 Speaker 1: mix doing. Maybe I'll call Peter and see if you, 2360 01:51:15,800 --> 01:51:18,519 Speaker 1: you know, consider me for Docking. In the meantime, in 2361 01:51:18,600 --> 01:51:22,000 Speaker 1: the background, there's this conversation going on between Joe and 2362 01:51:22,160 --> 01:51:26,040 Speaker 1: Peter where Joe is going, that's our guy, whoever mixed 2363 01:51:26,120 --> 01:51:29,000 Speaker 1: this tape, that's the guy we need to mix our tour, 2364 01:51:29,439 --> 01:51:32,320 Speaker 1: that's the guy we want. And he is really all 2365 01:51:32,320 --> 01:51:34,120 Speaker 1: about the vocal performances on it. He was like, the 2366 01:51:34,200 --> 01:51:36,120 Speaker 1: vocal sound unbelievable on this tape. You have to get 2367 01:51:36,200 --> 01:51:39,120 Speaker 1: this guy, and Peter was kind of going, are you 2368 01:51:39,320 --> 01:51:41,120 Speaker 1: sure this is the guy. I'm not listening to this 2369 01:51:41,240 --> 01:51:43,040 Speaker 1: every night. I'm not. Are you sure this is the 2370 01:51:43,080 --> 01:51:45,400 Speaker 1: guy we want? And Joe God love him. I mean 2371 01:51:45,439 --> 01:51:47,400 Speaker 1: I owe him a dead of gratitude like nobody's business. 2372 01:51:47,479 --> 01:51:49,200 Speaker 1: And he was like, Yeah, that's our guy, that's the 2373 01:51:49,240 --> 01:51:52,639 Speaker 1: guy we want. So I get home a week later 2374 01:51:52,840 --> 01:51:55,360 Speaker 1: and there's a message on my machine from C Prime, 2375 01:51:55,479 --> 01:51:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm thinking, fan fuckantastic. Carry this. I'm 2376 01:51:59,000 --> 01:52:00,920 Speaker 1: going to get docking. I know they're going to give 2377 01:52:00,960 --> 01:52:04,360 Speaker 1: me the dock and kid, hey, we think we want 2378 01:52:04,400 --> 01:52:06,519 Speaker 1: you to do Deaf Leppardy interested in doing Deaf Leopard 2379 01:52:06,640 --> 01:52:10,000 Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, okay, I'll do deaf Leppard. 2380 01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:14,479 Speaker 1: So off we go to London and the rest is history, 2381 01:52:14,520 --> 01:52:16,439 Speaker 1: as they said, Just so I know where does Tesla 2382 01:52:16,479 --> 01:52:18,519 Speaker 1: fit in this game? They were the opening act for 2383 01:52:18,560 --> 01:52:21,559 Speaker 1: Alice Cooper on that But you worked for Tesla too. 2384 01:52:21,800 --> 01:52:25,880 Speaker 1: That was afterwards. That was after Okay, I gotta ask, Okay, 2385 01:52:26,080 --> 01:52:29,000 Speaker 1: you are the front of whole Guy, but especially on 2386 01:52:29,160 --> 01:52:32,560 Speaker 1: that Deaf Leopard tour, there are a lot of shenanigans. 2387 01:52:34,680 --> 01:52:37,160 Speaker 1: You're gonna put me in the TMZ zone here, aren't you. 2388 01:52:38,080 --> 01:52:42,040 Speaker 1: I don't really need that level of detail. I want 2389 01:52:42,080 --> 01:52:46,639 Speaker 1: to know to what degree did you participate. Oh my gosh, dude, 2390 01:52:47,160 --> 01:52:48,760 Speaker 1: I'll just say I met my wife on that tour. 2391 01:52:48,840 --> 01:52:51,439 Speaker 1: Maybe we'll just leave it there. Actually I met her 2392 01:52:51,479 --> 01:52:53,080 Speaker 1: on air supply. I shouldn't say that I was mixing 2393 01:52:53,120 --> 01:52:57,240 Speaker 1: air supply at that Okay. The other thing is very 2394 01:52:57,400 --> 01:53:01,680 Speaker 1: hard to be part of a traveling entourage with raw. 2395 01:53:01,840 --> 01:53:05,719 Speaker 1: It's worse for the performers themselves. They played for twenty 2396 01:53:05,800 --> 01:53:09,320 Speaker 1: thousand people. They can't calm down there with the same 2397 01:53:09,479 --> 01:53:12,920 Speaker 1: five assholes they've known since they were twelve, and a 2398 01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:16,759 Speaker 1: lot of them, you know, turned to substances to cope. 2399 01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:19,440 Speaker 1: How did you cope? Well, I mean, I'm not impervious 2400 01:53:19,880 --> 01:53:21,960 Speaker 1: to the partying that happened in the eighties. I mean, 2401 01:53:22,200 --> 01:53:24,240 Speaker 1: I mean that was just a different time. I mean, 2402 01:53:25,200 --> 01:53:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, sex, drugs, and rock and roll was in. 2403 01:53:27,240 --> 01:53:29,439 Speaker 1: It was going ten miles an hour during the eighties 2404 01:53:29,479 --> 01:53:32,200 Speaker 1: and the very early nineties, and until you know, the 2405 01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:34,640 Speaker 1: AIDS epidemic, put the cope, put the cabbage on it. 2406 01:53:34,840 --> 01:53:36,559 Speaker 1: I mean, that kind of shut the whole thing down 2407 01:53:37,200 --> 01:53:40,120 Speaker 1: there for your period of time. But you know, again, 2408 01:53:40,200 --> 01:53:42,200 Speaker 1: I'm I'm always stressed in this, man, You've got to 2409 01:53:42,240 --> 01:53:45,160 Speaker 1: put it in context. This is not rationalizing it, but 2410 01:53:45,240 --> 01:53:47,320 Speaker 1: you just have to put it in context. That was 2411 01:53:47,400 --> 01:53:50,479 Speaker 1: an accepted piece of the puzzle out there. I mean, 2412 01:53:50,840 --> 01:53:52,200 Speaker 1: if you were going to be out there, you were 2413 01:53:52,200 --> 01:53:54,160 Speaker 1: going to be a part of that lifestyle. I mean, 2414 01:53:54,240 --> 01:53:57,680 Speaker 1: it's just and you know, I mean I still say 2415 01:53:57,720 --> 01:54:00,559 Speaker 1: this about touring to this day. You know, you've got 2416 01:54:00,640 --> 01:54:03,160 Speaker 1: to be able to hang. You know, you're not going 2417 01:54:03,200 --> 01:54:06,479 Speaker 1: to survive on these tours as the outlier very often, 2418 01:54:06,560 --> 01:54:07,840 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, you've got to be able to hang. 2419 01:54:07,960 --> 01:54:09,160 Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean you've got to give in and 2420 01:54:09,240 --> 01:54:11,519 Speaker 1: participate on everything, but you've got to be able to 2421 01:54:11,560 --> 01:54:15,040 Speaker 1: survive out there from a cultural point of view and 2422 01:54:15,439 --> 01:54:17,320 Speaker 1: you know, kind of a social point of view. I mean, 2423 01:54:17,320 --> 01:54:19,240 Speaker 1: you've got to have a personality that fits into that 2424 01:54:19,360 --> 01:54:22,160 Speaker 1: lifestyle out there. And it's not for everybody. It is 2425 01:54:22,240 --> 01:54:26,160 Speaker 1: just not for everybody. And it's a I mean, we're 2426 01:54:26,160 --> 01:54:28,080 Speaker 1: starting to see all the statistics come in now. You know, 2427 01:54:28,200 --> 01:54:32,240 Speaker 1: it's a stressful lifestyle. Traveling for a living is stressful 2428 01:54:32,320 --> 01:54:35,120 Speaker 1: and it takes its toll on people. Man, it's that 2429 01:54:35,240 --> 01:54:37,080 Speaker 1: bill starting to come do. Now we're starting to see 2430 01:54:37,080 --> 01:54:39,760 Speaker 1: it in our industry. Now, okay, let's just go through 2431 01:54:39,760 --> 01:54:42,440 Speaker 1: the litany. You work for Death Leopard, then you go 2432 01:54:42,520 --> 01:54:45,440 Speaker 1: to Tesla to take us through the acts. Actually I 2433 01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:49,480 Speaker 1: went from I went from Death Leopard to Rush, and 2434 01:54:49,760 --> 01:54:51,400 Speaker 1: you know I got that through Peter. You know, Peter 2435 01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:54,080 Speaker 1: introduced me to Getty one of the Death Leopard shows 2436 01:54:54,080 --> 01:54:56,360 Speaker 1: and we kind of hit it off. And that was 2437 01:54:56,440 --> 01:54:58,760 Speaker 1: the dream gig for me. If there was every one 2438 01:54:58,840 --> 01:55:01,480 Speaker 1: gig that I always want, it was mixing Rush. That 2439 01:55:01,600 --> 01:55:03,280 Speaker 1: was I was the Rush fan that got to mix 2440 01:55:03,400 --> 01:55:06,000 Speaker 1: the show. I've said that many times. So that was 2441 01:55:06,080 --> 01:55:07,920 Speaker 1: that was the brass ring for me during that period, 2442 01:55:08,080 --> 01:55:11,240 Speaker 1: no doubt about it. But I mean in terms of 2443 01:55:11,280 --> 01:55:15,360 Speaker 1: the time frame, yeah, I think it was Deaf Leppard hysteria, 2444 01:55:16,320 --> 01:55:18,280 Speaker 1: then onto Rush for a little bit, and then to 2445 01:55:18,520 --> 01:55:22,040 Speaker 1: to some testless stuff, and then back to def Leopard 2446 01:55:22,080 --> 01:55:24,400 Speaker 1: and then back to Rush. I mean it was it 2447 01:55:24,520 --> 01:55:27,120 Speaker 1: was just just constant. I mean I was always on 2448 01:55:27,200 --> 01:55:29,440 Speaker 1: the road during those pretty years. And at what point 2449 01:55:29,520 --> 01:55:32,920 Speaker 1: did you go independent stopped working for the Canoga Park Company. Oh, 2450 01:55:33,040 --> 01:55:36,680 Speaker 1: that was with def Leppard. Right right after def Leppard 2451 01:55:36,760 --> 01:55:40,680 Speaker 1: was my first truly truly independent gig where I was 2452 01:55:40,720 --> 01:55:44,720 Speaker 1: not working for the company, so from night late night on, 2453 01:55:44,920 --> 01:55:48,160 Speaker 1: I've been independent. So how did you end up working 2454 01:55:48,320 --> 01:55:51,840 Speaker 1: with Prince? You said, Yeah, that was just the you know, 2455 01:55:52,320 --> 01:55:55,600 Speaker 1: the phone rang one day and you know, one of 2456 01:55:55,680 --> 01:55:58,080 Speaker 1: the guys that I had worked with on Petty Uh, 2457 01:55:58,480 --> 01:56:00,800 Speaker 1: he was one of my systems engineers, was out on 2458 01:56:00,920 --> 01:56:04,240 Speaker 1: prints and kind of just said, Hey, I were in Phoenix, 2459 01:56:04,240 --> 01:56:05,360 Speaker 1: you want to come down and see the show. I 2460 01:56:05,440 --> 01:56:07,240 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, coming and see the show. So I'd 2461 01:56:07,280 --> 01:56:10,040 Speaker 1: love to see Prince. So I go down there, and 2462 01:56:10,920 --> 01:56:12,800 Speaker 1: I mean, not for nothing, man, I mean it it 2463 01:56:12,960 --> 01:56:16,640 Speaker 1: sounded bad. I mean it was just like who I 2464 01:56:16,680 --> 01:56:18,600 Speaker 1: mean it was, but you know, I mean you got 2465 01:56:18,720 --> 01:56:20,440 Speaker 1: to kind of know all the again, all the ins 2466 01:56:20,480 --> 01:56:22,240 Speaker 1: and outs of this, but I mean it was just like, Wow, 2467 01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:24,640 Speaker 1: this is not working. Whatever they're trying to do right here, 2468 01:56:26,280 --> 01:56:27,960 Speaker 1: this is not working. I mean I left after about 2469 01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:32,880 Speaker 1: six seven songs, and after I left the place, I 2470 01:56:32,920 --> 01:56:34,120 Speaker 1: kind of went out for a couple of drinks whatever. 2471 01:56:34,160 --> 01:56:35,720 Speaker 1: By the time I got home, there was a message 2472 01:56:35,760 --> 01:56:40,360 Speaker 1: on my machine from UH, from the tour manager saying, Hey, 2473 01:56:40,760 --> 01:56:43,000 Speaker 1: Charlie tells me you're available right now. Is there any 2474 01:56:43,080 --> 01:56:44,400 Speaker 1: chance you would want to come out and mix this 2475 01:56:44,720 --> 01:56:47,560 Speaker 1: for a while, you know. And I was like, oh boy, 2476 01:56:48,720 --> 01:56:51,360 Speaker 1: I mean, the dude's reputation kind of precedes himself. I 2477 01:56:51,520 --> 01:56:52,880 Speaker 1: mean I kind of heard what was going on. I 2478 01:56:52,960 --> 01:56:55,160 Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, it's like, I'm right in 2479 01:56:55,200 --> 01:56:57,960 Speaker 1: the middle of a record project right now. Said I 2480 01:56:58,040 --> 01:57:00,920 Speaker 1: don't think so, man, I'm you know, blah blah blah. 2481 01:57:01,520 --> 01:57:03,800 Speaker 1: And then they started throwing out money. You know. I 2482 01:57:03,960 --> 01:57:07,400 Speaker 1: was just like, Okay, that's a lot of money. I 2483 01:57:07,520 --> 01:57:09,840 Speaker 1: was like, okay, all right, well here's the deal. You know, 2484 01:57:10,080 --> 01:57:14,120 Speaker 1: I'll do it, but you know, I mean again, you know, 2485 01:57:14,360 --> 01:57:17,920 Speaker 1: Prince was known for just churning through engineers. And I said, 2486 01:57:18,040 --> 01:57:20,080 Speaker 1: I want all the money up front. I said, I'll 2487 01:57:20,120 --> 01:57:21,600 Speaker 1: come out, but I want all the money up front. 2488 01:57:21,600 --> 01:57:23,360 Speaker 1: I'll take a break from this project for two or 2489 01:57:23,400 --> 01:57:25,800 Speaker 1: three weeks, kind of bail water off the ship out 2490 01:57:25,800 --> 01:57:27,640 Speaker 1: there and get everything squared away, and then we can 2491 01:57:27,680 --> 01:57:29,040 Speaker 1: turn it over to somebody else if you want to 2492 01:57:29,080 --> 01:57:31,720 Speaker 1: do it. And he fully he goes, okay, be in 2493 01:57:31,760 --> 01:57:36,920 Speaker 1: San Antonio tomorrow. I was like, oh my god, but 2494 01:57:37,080 --> 01:57:39,800 Speaker 1: a long story short on it. You know. I got 2495 01:57:39,840 --> 01:57:43,160 Speaker 1: out there and really just the mixer and the p 2496 01:57:43,280 --> 01:57:45,120 Speaker 1: A system was a mess. I mean, really, that's what 2497 01:57:45,200 --> 01:57:48,320 Speaker 1: it was all about. Because the performances, the music, and 2498 01:57:48,400 --> 01:57:51,760 Speaker 1: the musicians were off the freaking chain. I mean, it 2499 01:57:51,960 --> 01:57:54,040 Speaker 1: was so good, you know, I just I had that 2500 01:57:54,120 --> 01:57:56,600 Speaker 1: kind of moment at the show, just thinking, Wow, look 2501 01:57:56,640 --> 01:57:59,880 Speaker 1: at these players. Why does this sound like this? And 2502 01:58:00,520 --> 01:58:03,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I want you know, it's not an effort 2503 01:58:03,400 --> 01:58:05,040 Speaker 1: to talk ill of the dead or anything like that, 2504 01:58:05,160 --> 01:58:08,880 Speaker 1: but you know, between the engineers that were there kind 2505 01:58:08,920 --> 01:58:11,360 Speaker 1: of mean and a yes man for Prince and his 2506 01:58:11,680 --> 01:58:13,560 Speaker 1: input on the console and his input on the p 2507 01:58:13,680 --> 01:58:16,440 Speaker 1: A systems, things were just just completely out of whack. 2508 01:58:17,040 --> 01:58:18,920 Speaker 1: And I it took me about three or four shows 2509 01:58:18,960 --> 01:58:20,680 Speaker 1: to get him to really trust what I wanted to 2510 01:58:20,760 --> 01:58:23,800 Speaker 1: do on the console and with the p A system, etcetera. 2511 01:58:23,920 --> 01:58:25,560 Speaker 1: But after a period of time I got him to 2512 01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:28,520 Speaker 1: trust it and we ended up having some really really 2513 01:58:28,600 --> 01:58:31,680 Speaker 1: great shows. We you know, we went from having three 2514 01:58:31,760 --> 01:58:34,040 Speaker 1: and four hour sound checks that were holding the doors 2515 01:58:34,120 --> 01:58:37,320 Speaker 1: to doing, you know, one song, two songs, Okay, that's great, 2516 01:58:37,400 --> 01:58:39,800 Speaker 1: let's go, you know, get it going on. So you know, 2517 01:58:39,920 --> 01:58:41,440 Speaker 1: he and I actually at the end of by the 2518 01:58:41,520 --> 01:58:43,280 Speaker 1: end of it hit it off pretty good. We it 2519 01:58:43,400 --> 01:58:44,600 Speaker 1: was to the point where I could go talk to 2520 01:58:44,720 --> 01:58:47,200 Speaker 1: him when I needed to talk to him. You know, 2521 01:58:47,240 --> 01:58:49,240 Speaker 1: I didn't have to go through his bodyguard or anything 2522 01:58:49,320 --> 01:58:53,520 Speaker 1: like that. And you know, it convenient to say it now, 2523 01:58:53,600 --> 01:58:54,760 Speaker 1: but you know, if I had to go back and 2524 01:58:54,800 --> 01:58:56,480 Speaker 1: work for him again, I would have gone back in 2525 01:58:56,520 --> 01:58:58,240 Speaker 1: the heartbeat. You know. We we we got to a 2526 01:58:58,280 --> 01:59:01,880 Speaker 1: point where we got some mutual respect built and then 2527 01:59:01,960 --> 01:59:04,320 Speaker 1: then it then it went swimmingly. It was really really 2528 01:59:04,360 --> 01:59:07,280 Speaker 1: good and a fantastic show man. My goodness, what a 2529 01:59:07,320 --> 01:59:09,480 Speaker 1: set of players. And how long did you end up 2530 01:59:09,520 --> 01:59:11,360 Speaker 1: working with them? It was only about three or four weeks. 2531 01:59:11,560 --> 01:59:13,200 Speaker 1: Wasn't long. Like I said, I was right in the 2532 01:59:13,240 --> 01:59:15,040 Speaker 1: middle of a record project I needed to get back to. 2533 01:59:15,200 --> 01:59:17,880 Speaker 1: So it's like I kind of bailed water on it 2534 01:59:17,920 --> 01:59:19,440 Speaker 1: for a little bit, got it all kind of sorted 2535 01:59:19,480 --> 01:59:21,920 Speaker 1: back out, and and really it's not even like we 2536 01:59:22,000 --> 01:59:24,040 Speaker 1: turned it over to somebody else. The the tour was 2537 01:59:24,080 --> 01:59:25,440 Speaker 1: coming to a close, so I just went in and 2538 01:59:25,520 --> 01:59:27,680 Speaker 1: closed it out and then we moved on. Okay, if 2539 01:59:27,720 --> 01:59:30,520 Speaker 1: you look at your CV, you work with certain acts 2540 01:59:30,640 --> 01:59:34,040 Speaker 1: for like three or ten years and then it ends. 2541 01:59:34,120 --> 01:59:36,280 Speaker 1: So you know, you work with Alice Cooper for six years, 2542 01:59:36,360 --> 01:59:39,440 Speaker 1: worked with Jackson Brown for three or four years. Why 2543 01:59:39,520 --> 01:59:42,960 Speaker 1: did these relationships end? Well, I mean sometimes it's just 2544 01:59:43,080 --> 01:59:45,840 Speaker 1: a matter of scheduling, you know, where you can't. I 2545 01:59:45,880 --> 01:59:49,720 Speaker 1: mean I was really fortunate to be able to really 2546 01:59:49,840 --> 01:59:52,920 Speaker 1: kind of buttressed together two or three acts there during 2547 01:59:52,960 --> 01:59:55,360 Speaker 1: the nineties, where I was if I wasn't working with Rush, 2548 01:59:55,360 --> 01:59:57,480 Speaker 1: I was working with Petty. If I wasn't working with Petty, 2549 01:59:57,480 --> 01:59:59,960 Speaker 1: I was working with Matchbox twenty, and just the round 2550 02:00:00,080 --> 02:00:03,480 Speaker 1: robin just continued. But at some point, you know, especially 2551 02:00:03,520 --> 02:00:06,000 Speaker 1: after Rush shut down for a little bit and then 2552 02:00:06,040 --> 02:00:08,800 Speaker 1: they were going to come back, that's I had a 2553 02:00:08,920 --> 02:00:12,520 Speaker 1: scheduling collision then, and I couldn't do both. I just 2554 02:00:13,080 --> 02:00:14,800 Speaker 1: they just was going to be impossible to do both. 2555 02:00:14,840 --> 02:00:16,440 Speaker 1: So I had to pull the record on one of them. 2556 02:00:16,920 --> 02:00:19,000 Speaker 1: And it was heartbreaking to do it. I mean, I 2557 02:00:20,080 --> 02:00:22,200 Speaker 1: I felt like I could have retired mixing Rush. I 2558 02:00:22,520 --> 02:00:25,440 Speaker 1: just loved that organization and those guys so much and 2559 02:00:25,560 --> 02:00:28,320 Speaker 1: loved that music so much. But it wasn't to be, 2560 02:00:28,720 --> 02:00:31,840 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't to be. Okay if also, you're 2561 02:00:31,880 --> 02:00:35,640 Speaker 1: known for being an exercise junkie, and the thing that 2562 02:00:35,920 --> 02:00:40,680 Speaker 1: stuck out to me was the swim from Alcatraz to 2563 02:00:40,880 --> 02:00:44,920 Speaker 1: the shore, so illuminate that. Yeah, well this all kind 2564 02:00:44,960 --> 02:00:47,960 Speaker 1: of you know, this whole thing kind of started. You know, 2565 02:00:48,040 --> 02:00:50,680 Speaker 1: when you turn fifty, you know, weird things happened in 2566 02:00:50,760 --> 02:00:53,360 Speaker 1: your brain, you know. I mean, you know, when when 2567 02:00:53,400 --> 02:00:54,480 Speaker 1: I was growing up, when I was a kid, I 2568 02:00:54,520 --> 02:00:56,600 Speaker 1: was I always struggled between two things. Don't want to 2569 02:00:56,600 --> 02:00:57,880 Speaker 1: be an athlete? Who want to be a musician? I 2570 02:00:57,880 --> 02:00:59,280 Speaker 1: want to be an athlete. I wanna be a musician, 2571 02:00:59,320 --> 02:01:01,600 Speaker 1: and I you know, going through that as a teenager. 2572 02:01:02,160 --> 02:01:05,120 Speaker 1: And finally, you know, rightly, so it settled on music 2573 02:01:05,200 --> 02:01:08,280 Speaker 1: than goodness, because I'm not an athlete. I mean, if 2574 02:01:08,320 --> 02:01:09,640 Speaker 1: you looked at me, you were just going, yeah, not 2575 02:01:09,720 --> 02:01:13,800 Speaker 1: an athlete. But that said, you know, touring in and 2576 02:01:13,920 --> 02:01:16,800 Speaker 1: of itself is a physical activity. I mean, it is 2577 02:01:17,160 --> 02:01:19,240 Speaker 1: something that requires I mean, if you're gonna do it 2578 02:01:19,320 --> 02:01:21,600 Speaker 1: well and stay on top of it, you know, there's 2579 02:01:21,600 --> 02:01:23,520 Speaker 1: a physical element to it. And it's part of what 2580 02:01:23,600 --> 02:01:24,960 Speaker 1: I love about it. It's part of what I love 2581 02:01:24,960 --> 02:01:27,480 Speaker 1: about it more than being in the studio, which is 2582 02:01:27,640 --> 02:01:30,360 Speaker 1: very sedentary. But I like me and moving. I like 2583 02:01:30,640 --> 02:01:33,080 Speaker 1: my windshield changing every day, all of that kind of stuff. 2584 02:01:33,120 --> 02:01:36,960 Speaker 1: But It's physically very, very demanding. And I got kind 2585 02:01:37,000 --> 02:01:39,160 Speaker 1: of turned onto this by a friend of mine here 2586 02:01:39,200 --> 02:01:41,040 Speaker 1: in town. You know, a neighbor friend of mine who 2587 02:01:41,120 --> 02:01:42,840 Speaker 1: was doing this. I was at a party. We were 2588 02:01:42,880 --> 02:01:45,280 Speaker 1: just chatting one night, and I was just about to 2589 02:01:45,320 --> 02:01:50,600 Speaker 1: turn fifty, and somehow this subject came up of swimming Alcatraz, 2590 02:01:51,000 --> 02:01:52,760 Speaker 1: and I was like, hang on, hang on a minute, 2591 02:01:52,920 --> 02:01:55,440 Speaker 1: hang on, you're telling me that they actually let you 2592 02:01:55,600 --> 02:01:58,360 Speaker 1: do that. And he was like, yeah, yeah, they hold 2593 02:01:58,360 --> 02:02:01,560 Speaker 1: a race every year. They they do it as a biathlon, 2594 02:02:01,720 --> 02:02:03,440 Speaker 1: and then they do this thing called the Escape from 2595 02:02:03,440 --> 02:02:06,440 Speaker 1: Alcatraz where you swim from the island into Golden Gate 2596 02:02:06,520 --> 02:02:09,760 Speaker 1: Park and or down to the Aquatic Center down there. 2597 02:02:10,200 --> 02:02:12,920 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, I'm all in. I am all in. 2598 02:02:13,120 --> 02:02:15,840 Speaker 1: I want to do this right now. I've never been 2599 02:02:15,880 --> 02:02:19,880 Speaker 1: a competitive swimmer, never been anything even remotely like that. 2600 02:02:20,040 --> 02:02:21,680 Speaker 1: I thought, okay, I'm going to train to do this, 2601 02:02:21,920 --> 02:02:24,560 Speaker 1: and and sure enough went and got a trainer and 2602 02:02:24,920 --> 02:02:27,360 Speaker 1: started doing it and did the swim. I mean it 2603 02:02:27,960 --> 02:02:30,560 Speaker 1: was you know, if you kind of read this, I 2604 02:02:30,640 --> 02:02:32,320 Speaker 1: kind of revealed this a little bit in my CB. 2605 02:02:32,600 --> 02:02:36,520 Speaker 1: So I've always been this way in my life where 2606 02:02:36,640 --> 02:02:38,760 Speaker 1: I've and I think it served me well in my 2607 02:02:39,040 --> 02:02:41,240 Speaker 1: in my job as a mixer as well as I've 2608 02:02:41,280 --> 02:02:43,920 Speaker 1: never backed down from anything. Right, if you put it 2609 02:02:43,960 --> 02:02:45,840 Speaker 1: in front of me and tell me I can't do it, 2610 02:02:45,880 --> 02:02:47,600 Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna find a way to do it. I 2611 02:02:47,760 --> 02:02:53,320 Speaker 1: like running at challenges, and all of the events like 2612 02:02:53,400 --> 02:02:55,320 Speaker 1: that that I do are like that. They're just things 2613 02:02:55,360 --> 02:02:57,560 Speaker 1: where you go, why would anybody do that? And it's like, well, 2614 02:02:57,560 --> 02:02:59,680 Speaker 1: I want to do it, because I don't I'm going 2615 02:02:59,720 --> 02:03:02,520 Speaker 1: to be uncomfortable doing it. You know that whole concept 2616 02:03:02,600 --> 02:03:07,040 Speaker 1: of get comfortable being uncomfortable. Man, that's that's concert life 2617 02:03:07,120 --> 02:03:09,200 Speaker 1: in a nutshell right there. You know, you've got to 2618 02:03:09,240 --> 02:03:12,240 Speaker 1: be able to manage your emotions and and get comfortable 2619 02:03:12,280 --> 02:03:15,879 Speaker 1: being uncomfortable. Right. Okay, so we've all seen the movies, etcetera. 2620 02:03:16,120 --> 02:03:20,320 Speaker 1: Supposedly you couldn't escape from Alcatraz. So how hard was 2621 02:03:20,480 --> 02:03:23,880 Speaker 1: the swim? Well, it's freaking hard, but you know you're 2622 02:03:23,920 --> 02:03:25,400 Speaker 1: doing it in a wet suit. I mean, you've got 2623 02:03:25,520 --> 02:03:28,080 Speaker 1: all the things in your favor there as opposed to 2624 02:03:28,120 --> 02:03:31,560 Speaker 1: be in a prisoner. You know, some malnutrition prisoner who's 2625 02:03:31,560 --> 02:03:35,320 Speaker 1: gonna try to swim and those I mean freezing cold 2626 02:03:35,400 --> 02:03:38,160 Speaker 1: water to try to get there, you know, try to 2627 02:03:38,240 --> 02:03:40,880 Speaker 1: do that without a wet suit. Although I mean, I'll 2628 02:03:40,880 --> 02:03:42,680 Speaker 1: tell the story because I love telling the story for 2629 02:03:42,800 --> 02:03:44,520 Speaker 1: some reason. You know, when you go out there, like 2630 02:03:44,600 --> 02:03:46,000 Speaker 1: you you march down the street and you get on 2631 02:03:46,040 --> 02:03:48,440 Speaker 1: a big barge and they take you out, you know, 2632 02:03:48,520 --> 02:03:52,280 Speaker 1: to the southwest portion of the island and you jump 2633 02:03:52,320 --> 02:03:54,040 Speaker 1: off into the water and you tread water there for 2634 02:03:54,160 --> 02:03:57,040 Speaker 1: you know, fifteen twenty minutes until the race starts. So 2635 02:03:57,200 --> 02:04:00,560 Speaker 1: we're on the we're on the barge and everybody's in 2636 02:04:00,640 --> 02:04:02,760 Speaker 1: full wet suit everything, you know, because it's I mean 2637 02:04:02,840 --> 02:04:05,680 Speaker 1: it's cold water. And there are three girls on the 2638 02:04:05,760 --> 02:04:08,280 Speaker 1: barge with us, and we're looking at them, going, well, 2639 02:04:08,280 --> 02:04:11,320 Speaker 1: they're wearing one piece bathing suits. What the heck is 2640 02:04:11,400 --> 02:04:13,320 Speaker 1: this all about? These girls aren't gonna last five minutes 2641 02:04:13,640 --> 02:04:19,080 Speaker 1: in the water. They were Olympic swimmers. They were Olympic swimmers. 2642 02:04:19,080 --> 02:04:21,120 Speaker 1: They did the swimming about twenty five minutes, you know, 2643 02:04:21,120 --> 02:04:25,160 Speaker 1: I mean, they just beat the hypothermia. It's like, yeah, 2644 02:04:25,200 --> 02:04:27,120 Speaker 1: I feel like such a man right now. This is 2645 02:04:27,280 --> 02:04:29,040 Speaker 1: this is great. How long did it take you? And 2646 02:04:29,160 --> 02:04:31,600 Speaker 1: how bad are the currents? The currents are for real, 2647 02:04:32,040 --> 02:04:34,280 Speaker 1: and you've got to know where they are and and 2648 02:04:34,400 --> 02:04:36,160 Speaker 1: know how the currents because they do the race two 2649 02:04:36,200 --> 02:04:38,080 Speaker 1: times a year and the currents are different for each one, 2650 02:04:38,120 --> 02:04:39,680 Speaker 1: so you've got to study the currents a little bit 2651 02:04:40,120 --> 02:04:41,840 Speaker 1: and know it. And there's a guide boat out there, 2652 02:04:41,920 --> 02:04:44,760 Speaker 1: so you can kind of stay focused on the guide boat, 2653 02:04:44,800 --> 02:04:46,400 Speaker 1: but you know, you you kind of site toward the 2654 02:04:46,440 --> 02:04:49,280 Speaker 1: Transamerica building in the city and then let let the 2655 02:04:49,320 --> 02:04:51,640 Speaker 1: current kind of help you. But you you've gotta gotta swim. 2656 02:04:51,920 --> 02:04:54,360 Speaker 1: You kinda kind of edge against the current because if 2657 02:04:54,400 --> 02:04:58,680 Speaker 1: you miss the entrance to um the Aquatic Park down there, 2658 02:04:58,800 --> 02:05:01,080 Speaker 1: it takes you down underneath the ridge and you're out 2659 02:05:01,160 --> 02:05:03,040 Speaker 1: to see and have to go get rescued, you know. 2660 02:05:03,200 --> 02:05:06,160 Speaker 1: So you gotta pay really close attention to it. But 2661 02:05:06,320 --> 02:05:08,560 Speaker 1: it's hard, man, especially if the wakes are up there. 2662 02:05:08,760 --> 02:05:11,040 Speaker 1: That is a that is a challenging swim. It's just 2663 02:05:11,240 --> 02:05:14,600 Speaker 1: just under two miles, so you gotta you've got trained 2664 02:05:14,600 --> 02:05:16,280 Speaker 1: for it. You gotta be ready. So how long does 2665 02:05:16,360 --> 02:05:18,320 Speaker 1: it take you? I I did really well. I did 2666 02:05:18,400 --> 02:05:20,760 Speaker 1: surprisingly well. I mean I was right. I think I 2667 02:05:21,360 --> 02:05:23,560 Speaker 1: have on the wall out here somewhere. I know, I 2668 02:05:23,640 --> 02:05:26,600 Speaker 1: think I was something like forty nine minutes. So I 2669 02:05:26,920 --> 02:05:29,040 Speaker 1: finished in the It was a thousand people in the 2670 02:05:29,120 --> 02:05:32,360 Speaker 1: water for the start, which that in and of itself 2671 02:05:32,440 --> 02:05:35,480 Speaker 1: is just pure survival. But once they get started, you know, 2672 02:05:35,480 --> 02:05:38,000 Speaker 1: and you get going. But I finished, you know, top 2673 02:05:38,080 --> 02:05:40,520 Speaker 1: three hundred, top four hundred in it, which was really 2674 02:05:40,600 --> 02:05:42,440 Speaker 1: I was thrilled. I was like, there's no way I'm 2675 02:05:42,480 --> 02:05:44,880 Speaker 1: going to finish that high in this, but did great 2676 02:05:44,920 --> 02:05:47,480 Speaker 1: with it. So how often do you do with challenge? 2677 02:05:47,680 --> 02:05:51,240 Speaker 1: What's the hardest challenge you've done. I've been doing them 2678 02:05:51,280 --> 02:05:53,760 Speaker 1: every year since I turned fifty. I mean I've probably 2679 02:05:53,840 --> 02:05:58,040 Speaker 1: done in that time, I don't know, maybe fifty triathlons 2680 02:05:58,920 --> 02:06:00,960 Speaker 1: something like that, and I you know, I love doing 2681 02:06:01,000 --> 02:06:02,800 Speaker 1: these for periods of time. I was really into doing 2682 02:06:02,840 --> 02:06:07,280 Speaker 1: these tough mutter events, so I've done. In seventeen, I 2683 02:06:07,320 --> 02:06:09,560 Speaker 1: did this thing called World's Toughest Mutter, which is a 2684 02:06:09,640 --> 02:06:13,040 Speaker 1: twenty four hour race where you do I think it 2685 02:06:13,160 --> 02:06:17,600 Speaker 1: was twenty two obstacles on a five mile course. Uh, 2686 02:06:18,000 --> 02:06:19,880 Speaker 1: you know, all kinds of water, all kinds of really 2687 02:06:20,120 --> 02:06:22,840 Speaker 1: crazy obstacles, you know, electro shock, all kinds of things 2688 02:06:22,880 --> 02:06:24,920 Speaker 1: like that, and you do as many lapses as you 2689 02:06:24,960 --> 02:06:28,080 Speaker 1: can do of that in twenty four hours, so uh, 2690 02:06:28,200 --> 02:06:30,280 Speaker 1: and get as high on my allege as you can get. 2691 02:06:30,520 --> 02:06:33,440 Speaker 1: So I've done that twice. Those are really challenging. I 2692 02:06:33,480 --> 02:06:35,200 Speaker 1: think probably one of the most challenging things I did, 2693 02:06:35,240 --> 02:06:37,720 Speaker 1: probably short of Iron Man. Iron Man is really really 2694 02:06:37,760 --> 02:06:41,240 Speaker 1: a challenging event. But it was probably the Great Wall Marathon. 2695 02:06:41,280 --> 02:06:43,760 Speaker 1: I did the marathon on the Great Wall, and man, 2696 02:06:45,480 --> 02:06:47,000 Speaker 1: that was as close as I've ever come to not 2697 02:06:47,080 --> 02:06:50,080 Speaker 1: being able to finish a race because it's it's a 2698 02:06:50,120 --> 02:06:52,960 Speaker 1: full on marathon and within the marathon itself, you have 2699 02:06:53,600 --> 02:06:58,280 Speaker 1: essentially two two hundred and ten hundred fifteen story stair 2700 02:06:58,360 --> 02:07:02,360 Speaker 1: climbs inside a marathon. One happens at mile five and 2701 02:07:02,400 --> 02:07:05,760 Speaker 1: the other happens at about mile te and man, I 2702 02:07:06,160 --> 02:07:07,760 Speaker 1: didn't think I was going to finish it, but any 2703 02:07:07,920 --> 02:07:10,200 Speaker 1: it's a time limit, you have so much amount of 2704 02:07:10,240 --> 02:07:11,960 Speaker 1: time to finish that. But that was the hardest, probably 2705 02:07:11,960 --> 02:07:15,000 Speaker 1: the hardest thing mentally I ever had to tackle. Okay, 2706 02:07:15,080 --> 02:07:17,240 Speaker 1: So at this point in time, what are all the 2707 02:07:17,360 --> 02:07:21,320 Speaker 1: activities you're working on. I am currently well working for 2708 02:07:21,440 --> 02:07:24,320 Speaker 1: Chesney obviously, and you know we're really only doing about 2709 02:07:24,320 --> 02:07:26,040 Speaker 1: two shows a week on that we do a stadium 2710 02:07:26,080 --> 02:07:28,680 Speaker 1: every Saturday, and sometimes they'll throw in a shed show 2711 02:07:28,960 --> 02:07:30,920 Speaker 1: on you know, a Thursday or something like that, so 2712 02:07:31,000 --> 02:07:33,760 Speaker 1: it's not a terribly demanding schedule. And then the other 2713 02:07:33,800 --> 02:07:36,560 Speaker 1: times I'm working for avid Um, you know, doing the 2714 02:07:36,560 --> 02:07:39,880 Speaker 1: console design and development for them. So I've been you know, 2715 02:07:40,000 --> 02:07:43,760 Speaker 1: that's been kind of my stability gig, which I really love. 2716 02:07:43,800 --> 02:07:45,840 Speaker 1: I love working for the company and and love being 2717 02:07:45,880 --> 02:07:48,400 Speaker 1: able to contribute that piece of it to the industry, 2718 02:07:48,960 --> 02:07:51,080 Speaker 1: so that that's a lot of fun. And then you know, 2719 02:07:51,160 --> 02:07:52,640 Speaker 1: the rest of the time is just picking up other 2720 02:07:52,800 --> 02:07:55,320 Speaker 1: odd jobs. I love doing the award shows now, those 2721 02:07:55,320 --> 02:07:57,440 Speaker 1: are really fun to do. I recorded my first opera 2722 02:07:57,640 --> 02:08:01,320 Speaker 1: this past year. I did opera called The Copper Queen 2723 02:08:02,120 --> 02:08:05,400 Speaker 1: recorded that here in Phoenix, the Phoenix Eymphony. That was 2724 02:08:05,520 --> 02:08:08,600 Speaker 1: really fun to do. So, you know, there's no lack 2725 02:08:08,680 --> 02:08:10,880 Speaker 1: of work. Okay, So in the old days, you're going 2726 02:08:10,960 --> 02:08:13,280 Speaker 1: from tour to tour to tour. How much do you 2727 02:08:13,360 --> 02:08:15,760 Speaker 1: want to work now on the road as much as 2728 02:08:15,840 --> 02:08:18,480 Speaker 1: you can or you have a limit. I certainly don't 2729 02:08:18,480 --> 02:08:20,120 Speaker 1: want to work at the schedule I was working at 2730 02:08:20,160 --> 02:08:22,760 Speaker 1: in the late eighties and nineties. I mean, you know, 2731 02:08:22,920 --> 02:08:24,760 Speaker 1: I just I just don't want to work that much. 2732 02:08:24,800 --> 02:08:26,760 Speaker 1: I'm very selective about what I want to take and 2733 02:08:26,840 --> 02:08:29,240 Speaker 1: go out and do on tour. I mean part of 2734 02:08:29,280 --> 02:08:31,440 Speaker 1: the I mean I I really enjoyed the Kinney Chesch 2735 02:08:31,480 --> 02:08:34,320 Speaker 1: has anything. I really do. It's an incredible band. I mean, 2736 02:08:34,360 --> 02:08:37,200 Speaker 1: what an incredible group of players. I mean it's like, 2737 02:08:37,960 --> 02:08:40,240 Speaker 1: you know, mixing a studio band every night who is 2738 02:08:40,280 --> 02:08:43,440 Speaker 1: also a really good live band. But you know, the 2739 02:08:43,800 --> 02:08:46,040 Speaker 1: thought of getting out and doing trying to conquer all 2740 02:08:46,040 --> 02:08:48,200 Speaker 1: the stadiums. I really wanted to get out and do that. 2741 02:08:48,440 --> 02:08:49,880 Speaker 1: You know, I've done that. I've done a lot of 2742 02:08:49,920 --> 02:08:53,280 Speaker 1: stadium work in the past, but not to this level 2743 02:08:53,320 --> 02:08:55,360 Speaker 1: where I have my hands on it every single night 2744 02:08:55,440 --> 02:08:58,080 Speaker 1: for a stadium. That's like I said, that's I said 2745 02:08:58,080 --> 02:09:01,720 Speaker 1: it multiple times here. That's adult audio, really challenging to 2746 02:09:01,800 --> 02:09:04,960 Speaker 1: do really, really well. So I I was looking forward 2747 02:09:05,000 --> 02:09:07,000 Speaker 1: to take that on. Just to stop there one second. 2748 02:09:07,360 --> 02:09:10,960 Speaker 1: When Kenny play stadium, there's a retinue of acts. Do 2749 02:09:11,040 --> 02:09:14,160 Speaker 1: you mix all those acts? No? Just Kenny, just Kenny. 2750 02:09:14,440 --> 02:09:16,440 Speaker 1: I have done that in the past, like for one 2751 02:09:16,480 --> 02:09:18,640 Speaker 1: Tom Petty tour where Jackson was opening, I mixed both 2752 02:09:18,760 --> 02:09:21,760 Speaker 1: Jackson and Tom for the show. But that's that's pretty rare. 2753 02:09:21,840 --> 02:09:23,640 Speaker 1: You don't get a chance to do that very often. Okay, 2754 02:09:23,720 --> 02:09:26,400 Speaker 1: so you pick and choose. So at this point in time, 2755 02:09:26,440 --> 02:09:28,160 Speaker 1: you're on the road. How much of a year. I 2756 02:09:28,280 --> 02:09:31,480 Speaker 1: granted we've had COVID, but generally speaking, yeah, well, I mean, 2757 02:09:31,920 --> 02:09:35,400 Speaker 1: you know, Petty, you know, worked at a really civilized schedule. 2758 02:09:35,480 --> 02:09:38,680 Speaker 1: I mean, he wouldn't do more than you know, really 2759 02:09:38,800 --> 02:09:41,400 Speaker 1: rarely did more than three shows a week, four shows 2760 02:09:41,520 --> 02:09:43,320 Speaker 1: at the outside, So you know, that was a really 2761 02:09:43,360 --> 02:09:46,960 Speaker 1: civilized schedule. It was really civilized travel. I could do 2762 02:09:47,160 --> 02:09:48,960 Speaker 1: my I could do all the avid work while I 2763 02:09:49,000 --> 02:09:50,800 Speaker 1: was on the road because I'm an remote employee for 2764 02:09:50,840 --> 02:09:53,240 Speaker 1: them anyway, So it doesn't matter whether I'm working from 2765 02:09:53,320 --> 02:09:55,360 Speaker 1: my office or I'm working for the bus or working 2766 02:09:55,360 --> 02:09:57,440 Speaker 1: from a hotel room, and just doesn't matter. It's all 2767 02:09:57,520 --> 02:09:59,200 Speaker 1: kind of task based, you know, as long as I 2768 02:09:59,200 --> 02:10:02,080 Speaker 1: can get the work done, doesn't matter where I do it. Uh. 2769 02:10:02,240 --> 02:10:04,800 Speaker 1: As far as touring itself, you know, I'm a lot 2770 02:10:04,920 --> 02:10:07,960 Speaker 1: more picky about who I work for now, and you know, 2771 02:10:08,040 --> 02:10:09,920 Speaker 1: what the show is going to be, what the setting 2772 02:10:10,040 --> 02:10:12,080 Speaker 1: is going to be. So I'm I mean, I'm very 2773 02:10:13,120 --> 02:10:14,880 Speaker 1: blessed to be able to kind of be a little 2774 02:10:14,920 --> 02:10:17,800 Speaker 1: picky about who I choose to work for now. I 2775 02:10:17,840 --> 02:10:20,720 Speaker 1: mean the Chesney. Part of the attraction to the Chesney 2776 02:10:20,760 --> 02:10:24,680 Speaker 1: camp is it's just the greatest group of people. It's 2777 02:10:24,800 --> 02:10:27,040 Speaker 1: very much like the Petty camp in that regard, where 2778 02:10:27,160 --> 02:10:29,080 Speaker 1: you know, these are people you would hang out with 2779 02:10:29,280 --> 02:10:32,000 Speaker 1: off tour, you know, not just on tour. So you know, 2780 02:10:32,200 --> 02:10:34,440 Speaker 1: they're very enjoyable people to hang around with. So that 2781 02:10:34,560 --> 02:10:37,520 Speaker 1: that makes the whole thing even better and even more easy, 2782 02:10:37,680 --> 02:10:40,120 Speaker 1: you know. And do you have any children and what 2783 02:10:40,240 --> 02:10:42,880 Speaker 1: have you sacrifice being on the road all those years. 2784 02:10:43,200 --> 02:10:46,040 Speaker 1: I have three children who are all grown now. I 2785 02:10:46,120 --> 02:10:49,760 Speaker 1: have a twenty six year old daughter who is doing 2786 02:10:49,920 --> 02:10:53,800 Speaker 1: fantastic and fashion uh and designed. She I actually had 2787 02:10:53,840 --> 02:10:55,720 Speaker 1: her out on the last Tom Petty tour. She was 2788 02:10:55,760 --> 02:10:57,920 Speaker 1: one of the wardrobe stylists for Tom Petty for the 2789 02:10:58,000 --> 02:11:01,920 Speaker 1: last tour. But she's gone on to do other photography 2790 02:11:01,960 --> 02:11:05,640 Speaker 1: and styling work for commercials, etcetera, just doing fantastic. I 2791 02:11:05,760 --> 02:11:10,000 Speaker 1: have a middle son who's twenty three, who is completely 2792 02:11:10,160 --> 02:11:13,160 Speaker 1: wrapped up in the skateboard world. He is an incredible 2793 02:11:13,200 --> 02:11:15,480 Speaker 1: skater and a videographer now, him and a buddy have 2794 02:11:15,640 --> 02:11:19,280 Speaker 1: started a company called Liquid Chicken where they do all 2795 02:11:19,320 --> 02:11:22,320 Speaker 1: these I really just fantastic skate videos. He's got a 2796 02:11:22,320 --> 02:11:24,960 Speaker 1: really cool thing going on there. And then my youngest 2797 02:11:25,120 --> 02:11:28,200 Speaker 1: is probably the most musically inclined to the bunch. He's drummer, 2798 02:11:28,240 --> 02:11:31,200 Speaker 1: bass player. He'll end up being a producer by the 2799 02:11:31,280 --> 02:11:34,080 Speaker 1: time it's all said and done. But he's actually thinking 2800 02:11:34,080 --> 02:11:36,160 Speaker 1: about getting into folly work. He wants to do fully. 2801 02:11:36,240 --> 02:11:37,960 Speaker 1: I think he's kind of gotten the bug from doing 2802 02:11:37,960 --> 02:11:40,520 Speaker 1: all the gaming and everything. He's you know, he's kind 2803 02:11:40,520 --> 02:11:43,080 Speaker 1: of come to me and said, tell me about tell 2804 02:11:43,120 --> 02:11:46,840 Speaker 1: me about fully. How do you get into that? So 2805 02:11:46,960 --> 02:11:48,960 Speaker 1: that's that's pretty cool. He's he's just out of high school. 2806 02:11:48,960 --> 02:11:51,280 Speaker 1: He graduated last year. And you're still married to the 2807 02:11:51,400 --> 02:11:55,880 Speaker 1: same woman I am thirty five plus years now something 2808 02:11:55,920 --> 02:11:59,120 Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, we're kind of an outlier there. We've been. 2809 02:11:59,280 --> 02:12:02,160 Speaker 1: We've been together since day one, since we met, and 2810 02:12:03,520 --> 02:12:05,400 Speaker 1: I mean it feels as strong now as it's ever felt. 2811 02:12:05,520 --> 02:12:07,280 Speaker 1: She's actually looking forward to be going on the road 2812 02:12:07,320 --> 02:12:09,360 Speaker 1: because she's an empty nester now and she can come 2813 02:12:09,400 --> 02:12:12,400 Speaker 1: out and and to her now, so she wants to 2814 02:12:12,480 --> 02:12:14,480 Speaker 1: come out, you know, which was what we did in 2815 02:12:14,520 --> 02:12:17,080 Speaker 1: the early days. You know, we kind of you know, 2816 02:12:17,120 --> 02:12:19,400 Speaker 1: I think we were as a couple. I look back 2817 02:12:19,440 --> 02:12:20,920 Speaker 1: on it now, ago we were smart enough to do 2818 02:12:21,040 --> 02:12:24,040 Speaker 1: some really smart things there with our relationship, Like we 2819 02:12:24,160 --> 02:12:26,360 Speaker 1: were smart enough to know that, you know, if we 2820 02:12:26,440 --> 02:12:29,640 Speaker 1: were physically apart from more than two weeks, three weeks, 2821 02:12:29,920 --> 02:12:32,640 Speaker 1: three weeks was really outside, then it was just cost 2822 02:12:32,680 --> 02:12:34,600 Speaker 1: of business. She has to come out, we have to 2823 02:12:34,640 --> 02:12:39,200 Speaker 1: be together, continue bonding, etcetera. So that was kind of 2824 02:12:39,240 --> 02:12:41,480 Speaker 1: the rule up until the time we had, you know, 2825 02:12:41,880 --> 02:12:43,480 Speaker 1: until we got up to two kids, and then she 2826 02:12:43,640 --> 02:12:46,160 Speaker 1: was pretty homebound. From that point on. It was hard 2827 02:12:46,200 --> 02:12:47,880 Speaker 1: to bring the kids out on tour, and I'd end 2828 02:12:48,000 --> 02:12:50,360 Speaker 1: up in Arizona, you know. You know, I was in 2829 02:12:50,560 --> 02:12:53,640 Speaker 1: l A for the longest time, working there, you know, again, 2830 02:12:53,720 --> 02:12:57,000 Speaker 1: doing studio work and life sound work there. Uh, you know, 2831 02:12:57,120 --> 02:12:59,040 Speaker 1: working out a did a fair amount of work out 2832 02:12:59,040 --> 02:13:02,320 Speaker 1: of Keith Olsen's place good Night l A. You know, 2833 02:13:02,680 --> 02:13:07,000 Speaker 1: working with a bunch of people there, excuse me. And 2834 02:13:07,080 --> 02:13:09,040 Speaker 1: then at some point, you know, I started realizing, you 2835 02:13:09,080 --> 02:13:10,440 Speaker 1: know what, I don't need to live in l A 2836 02:13:10,520 --> 02:13:14,080 Speaker 1: to work in l A. So, uh, you know, we decided, 2837 02:13:14,280 --> 02:13:15,880 Speaker 1: you know, I was going to live somewhere else, someone 2838 02:13:15,920 --> 02:13:19,440 Speaker 1: that was less expensive, that's for sure. And both me 2839 02:13:19,480 --> 02:13:21,320 Speaker 1: and my wife were really big fans of the Southwest. 2840 02:13:21,320 --> 02:13:23,480 Speaker 1: I mean we looked at we looked at Taos for 2841 02:13:23,520 --> 02:13:25,839 Speaker 1: a little bit, and you know, places in New Mexico, 2842 02:13:26,040 --> 02:13:28,440 Speaker 1: and but at some point it was just like, Wow, Scottsdale, 2843 02:13:28,480 --> 02:13:30,160 Speaker 1: it's just such a great fit. I mean, it's so 2844 02:13:30,320 --> 02:13:32,040 Speaker 1: easy to get in and out of Los Angeles if 2845 02:13:32,040 --> 02:13:34,280 Speaker 1: I want to do it. You know, I had a 2846 02:13:34,680 --> 02:13:37,760 Speaker 1: I just kept my phone number, uh my l a 2847 02:13:37,840 --> 02:13:39,960 Speaker 1: phone number for the longest time, but lived in Arizona. 2848 02:13:40,120 --> 02:13:42,320 Speaker 1: And you know, if somebody called me up and said, hey, 2849 02:13:42,360 --> 02:13:43,920 Speaker 1: we got session brewining, you want to come in and 2850 02:13:43,960 --> 02:13:45,200 Speaker 1: do it, I'd said, give me a couple of hours 2851 02:13:45,280 --> 02:13:48,600 Speaker 1: and I go jump down on jump in Southwest Airlines 2852 02:13:48,640 --> 02:13:50,320 Speaker 1: and get there and and go do the work. So 2853 02:13:51,280 --> 02:13:53,200 Speaker 1: but you know, one of the things that drew me 2854 02:13:53,280 --> 02:13:56,120 Speaker 1: here at the time was, you know, like I kind 2855 02:13:56,120 --> 02:13:57,600 Speaker 1: of mentioned earlier, at one point, I was trying to 2856 02:13:57,640 --> 02:14:00,480 Speaker 1: put together my own studio and my own label. And 2857 02:14:00,800 --> 02:14:02,600 Speaker 1: you know, at that time, this was around the time 2858 02:14:02,680 --> 02:14:04,760 Speaker 1: I guess the gin blossoms were breaking out of here 2859 02:14:04,840 --> 02:14:07,280 Speaker 1: and some of the other people were coming out of Phoenix, 2860 02:14:07,320 --> 02:14:09,760 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of metal bands coming out 2861 02:14:09,760 --> 02:14:13,560 Speaker 1: of Phoenix. Um, I think Megadeth. Think. I think Dave 2862 02:14:13,800 --> 02:14:15,040 Speaker 1: was still here and he was doing a lot of 2863 02:14:15,080 --> 02:14:17,320 Speaker 1: Megadeth stuff out of here. And I was looking to 2864 02:14:17,480 --> 02:14:19,480 Speaker 1: come here and really cultivate some talent out of this 2865 02:14:19,640 --> 02:14:22,760 Speaker 1: area and start a label here. That was my goal. Uh, 2866 02:14:22,880 --> 02:14:25,000 Speaker 1: And I did okay with it. I did okay with it. 2867 02:14:25,160 --> 02:14:28,600 Speaker 1: I got probably five six bands signed to the label 2868 02:14:28,680 --> 02:14:30,640 Speaker 1: and then was trying to move them up. I had 2869 02:14:30,680 --> 02:14:32,560 Speaker 1: some inroads into Atlantic. I was trying to get them 2870 02:14:32,560 --> 02:14:34,000 Speaker 1: signed in there. But you know, at the end of 2871 02:14:34,040 --> 02:14:35,720 Speaker 1: the day, it was a lot of money spent, and 2872 02:14:37,360 --> 02:14:38,960 Speaker 1: you know, I just kind of had this epiphany at 2873 02:14:39,000 --> 02:14:40,480 Speaker 1: some point. It's like, you know, this is not my thing. 2874 02:14:40,560 --> 02:14:41,960 Speaker 1: As much as I wanted to believe I could be 2875 02:14:42,040 --> 02:14:45,360 Speaker 1: a producer, I just didn't really have the right chops 2876 02:14:45,440 --> 02:14:48,640 Speaker 1: for it. I mean, I didn't have enough musical acumen 2877 02:14:48,720 --> 02:14:51,840 Speaker 1: to really be a good producer. And the whole role 2878 02:14:51,920 --> 02:14:54,040 Speaker 1: even of a producer was changing during that period. The 2879 02:14:54,120 --> 02:14:56,080 Speaker 1: music industry was kind of upside down at that point, 2880 02:14:57,160 --> 02:14:59,160 Speaker 1: and it just kind of pushed me away. I just thought, 2881 02:14:59,160 --> 02:15:00,760 Speaker 1: you know what my thing is going to be live, 2882 02:15:00,920 --> 02:15:03,480 Speaker 1: and I know I have some things to contribute to 2883 02:15:03,560 --> 02:15:06,800 Speaker 1: the life sound world that are going to shape it 2884 02:15:06,920 --> 02:15:08,400 Speaker 1: and change it a little bit. I could just feel 2885 02:15:08,440 --> 02:15:10,800 Speaker 1: that coming, you know, So I really just kind of 2886 02:15:10,840 --> 02:15:13,840 Speaker 1: pulled the record on the studio and that whole kind 2887 02:15:13,840 --> 02:15:15,440 Speaker 1: of thing. Even though I was I was still mixing 2888 02:15:15,480 --> 02:15:17,960 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff there, I stopped tracking. I mean, 2889 02:15:17,960 --> 02:15:20,800 Speaker 1: I had a little mobile recording trailer that I would 2890 02:15:20,800 --> 02:15:22,600 Speaker 1: pull around and do events and stuff here and and 2891 02:15:22,760 --> 02:15:25,240 Speaker 1: do some mixing and stuff. But really I kind of 2892 02:15:25,280 --> 02:15:28,520 Speaker 1: got away from the label dream and just focused entirely 2893 02:15:28,560 --> 02:15:30,840 Speaker 1: on live sound. And you know, as as it's turned out, 2894 02:15:30,880 --> 02:15:33,360 Speaker 1: it served me very very well. How lucrative is it 2895 02:15:33,480 --> 02:15:35,720 Speaker 1: being a front of the house engineer depends on how 2896 02:15:35,800 --> 02:15:39,600 Speaker 1: good you are. Bob, Well, you're an elite player. I 2897 02:15:39,680 --> 02:15:41,520 Speaker 1: make more than I ever dreapt. I would make at it, 2898 02:15:41,680 --> 02:15:43,360 Speaker 1: I'll tell you that. I mean, I remember in the 2899 02:15:43,640 --> 02:15:47,320 Speaker 1: very early days of this, in the early eighties, just thinking, man, 2900 02:15:47,480 --> 02:15:50,440 Speaker 1: if I could just make if I could just make 2901 02:15:50,480 --> 02:15:53,240 Speaker 1: seven fifty bucks, maybe a thousand dollars a week, I 2902 02:15:53,320 --> 02:15:58,800 Speaker 1: could do this forever. You know. Needless to say, we've 2903 02:15:59,000 --> 02:16:01,240 Speaker 1: we've moved on past that figure. So yeah, no, I 2904 02:16:01,720 --> 02:16:04,320 Speaker 1: I've lived very comfortably. I mean, I'm not a high 2905 02:16:04,360 --> 02:16:07,880 Speaker 1: maintenance guy. Not I don't require a lot in my life. 2906 02:16:07,920 --> 02:16:09,600 Speaker 1: I can. I think I could actually live very simply, 2907 02:16:09,760 --> 02:16:11,240 Speaker 1: and I think that comes from living on the road. 2908 02:16:11,320 --> 02:16:14,920 Speaker 1: You learn how to live simple and and entertain yourself, 2909 02:16:15,040 --> 02:16:17,280 Speaker 1: you know. So, I mean I have a beautiful home here, etcetera. 2910 02:16:17,320 --> 02:16:19,680 Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, but I don't think I have 2911 02:16:19,840 --> 02:16:22,360 Speaker 1: to have that to survive. So you've achieved so much. 2912 02:16:23,120 --> 02:16:27,360 Speaker 1: Any dreams left, goals left, people you want to work with. 2913 02:16:28,200 --> 02:16:29,880 Speaker 1: I mean, so many of the bands that I dreamt 2914 02:16:29,880 --> 02:16:34,320 Speaker 1: about working with, you know, I really don't exist anymore, etcetera. 2915 02:16:34,560 --> 02:16:35,840 Speaker 1: You know, there are still bands that I would I 2916 02:16:35,920 --> 02:16:37,800 Speaker 1: would love to go out and do and really try 2917 02:16:37,840 --> 02:16:41,280 Speaker 1: to put a really interesting spin on doing it, like 2918 02:16:41,360 --> 02:16:43,640 Speaker 1: do it really unique. I mean, there's there's this whole 2919 02:16:44,120 --> 02:16:47,440 Speaker 1: movement now and p A systems and and mixing consoles 2920 02:16:47,480 --> 02:16:50,600 Speaker 1: to do immersive work in in the life sound space. 2921 02:16:50,920 --> 02:16:53,480 Speaker 1: I'm really excited about trying to do some of that. 2922 02:16:53,680 --> 02:16:54,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I would love to go out and mix 2923 02:16:54,840 --> 02:16:57,840 Speaker 1: somebody like tool uh, you know, and do that kind 2924 02:16:57,879 --> 02:17:00,760 Speaker 1: of thing. Um. I mean, certainly in my heyday, I 2925 02:17:00,800 --> 02:17:03,920 Speaker 1: would have loved to mix Queen. I would have loved 2926 02:17:03,959 --> 02:17:06,279 Speaker 1: to mix the who you know, any of those bands 2927 02:17:06,680 --> 02:17:09,160 Speaker 1: that would have been just my dream gigs. But like 2928 02:17:09,240 --> 02:17:11,240 Speaker 1: I said earlier, I really got to mix my dream gig. 2929 02:17:11,280 --> 02:17:14,240 Speaker 1: Brush was my dream gig. That's the one I always 2930 02:17:14,280 --> 02:17:16,800 Speaker 1: clamored after to do. You know, what is this immersive 2931 02:17:16,920 --> 02:17:20,520 Speaker 1: thing you're talking about, Well, think of it like, although 2932 02:17:20,600 --> 02:17:23,920 Speaker 1: this is gonna probably confuse the issue more than than 2933 02:17:23,959 --> 02:17:27,440 Speaker 1: actually explain it, but think of it like atmost but 2934 02:17:27,600 --> 02:17:29,600 Speaker 1: for a live sound that's that's what it's gonna end 2935 02:17:29,680 --> 02:17:32,360 Speaker 1: up being. It's this thing called object mixing versus bus 2936 02:17:32,520 --> 02:17:35,440 Speaker 1: mixing for a live sound, and it stands to really 2937 02:17:35,560 --> 02:17:39,960 Speaker 1: really do some amazing things in sound production live sound 2938 02:17:40,000 --> 02:17:42,440 Speaker 1: production for sure, because you know, at risk of going 2939 02:17:42,480 --> 02:17:45,040 Speaker 1: into all the geeky part of it again. You know, stereo, 2940 02:17:45,320 --> 02:17:49,080 Speaker 1: as we've known it is great really for the majority 2941 02:17:49,120 --> 02:17:51,120 Speaker 1: of things that we do in our world. You know, 2942 02:17:51,200 --> 02:17:54,240 Speaker 1: we listen to almost everything in stereo still to this day, 2943 02:17:55,240 --> 02:17:57,840 Speaker 1: but large format stereo by the time you get up 2944 02:17:57,840 --> 02:17:59,960 Speaker 1: to arenas and by the time you get to stadium 2945 02:18:00,080 --> 02:18:02,880 Speaker 1: where you have these very large distance between the left 2946 02:18:02,920 --> 02:18:05,240 Speaker 1: and the right of the stereo can cause lots of 2947 02:18:05,320 --> 02:18:09,279 Speaker 1: problems in terms of coverage and consistency in sound stereot 2948 02:18:09,360 --> 02:18:12,600 Speaker 1: large format stereo is is really not the ideal thing 2949 02:18:13,879 --> 02:18:17,360 Speaker 1: to do in large format live sound, and the concept 2950 02:18:17,400 --> 02:18:20,840 Speaker 1: of doing it uh in an immersive speaker format is 2951 02:18:22,000 --> 02:18:26,080 Speaker 1: highly desirable, highly desirable. But we again this is again 2952 02:18:26,120 --> 02:18:28,680 Speaker 1: where the technology and we're just at that point in 2953 02:18:28,760 --> 02:18:30,720 Speaker 1: history where the technology is going to allow us to 2954 02:18:30,800 --> 02:18:33,440 Speaker 1: actually do it. The consoles have the capability of doing it. 2955 02:18:34,240 --> 02:18:37,200 Speaker 1: We have the ability in in these big DSP processors 2956 02:18:37,280 --> 02:18:40,640 Speaker 1: to build an immersive environment. We have the speaker system 2957 02:18:40,720 --> 02:18:43,760 Speaker 1: capabilities to do it. You know, all the pieces are 2958 02:18:43,800 --> 02:18:45,840 Speaker 1: falling in place to do it, and certainly the music 2959 02:18:45,959 --> 02:18:48,760 Speaker 1: is lending itself to it, you know, so it could 2960 02:18:48,800 --> 02:18:51,240 Speaker 1: be it could be very cool. Before that, when you mix, 2961 02:18:51,320 --> 02:18:54,640 Speaker 1: you're essentially mixing mono or are you mixing stereo? I 2962 02:18:54,920 --> 02:18:56,840 Speaker 1: call it kind of a wide modo. I mean, it's 2963 02:18:57,000 --> 02:19:01,160 Speaker 1: it's not mono in the sense really model by definition 2964 02:19:01,200 --> 02:19:06,280 Speaker 1: should be one speaker cluster, right, So stereo with everything 2965 02:19:06,360 --> 02:19:09,280 Speaker 1: pan to the center is kind of model, but it's 2966 02:19:09,320 --> 02:19:12,640 Speaker 1: not really model. So you know, I kind of for 2967 02:19:13,200 --> 02:19:15,040 Speaker 1: large format concerts, I'm kind of doing what I call 2968 02:19:15,160 --> 02:19:18,160 Speaker 1: wide model. Sure, there are things panned out left and 2969 02:19:18,280 --> 02:19:20,720 Speaker 1: right to do things, but for the most part, the 2970 02:19:20,760 --> 02:19:23,560 Speaker 1: most important information is at the center and is modeled 2971 02:19:23,560 --> 02:19:25,879 Speaker 1: because you want with the entire room to be able 2972 02:19:25,920 --> 02:19:27,960 Speaker 1: to read it right. You don't want people on one 2973 02:19:27,959 --> 02:19:29,800 Speaker 1: side of the room not hearing other things on the 2974 02:19:29,840 --> 02:19:31,800 Speaker 1: other side of the room. Just to go back a chapter, 2975 02:19:31,959 --> 02:19:34,640 Speaker 1: if there's twenty thousand people in the arena, actually most 2976 02:19:34,680 --> 02:19:36,280 Speaker 1: of them are a little bit smaller, but let's use 2977 02:19:36,360 --> 02:19:41,040 Speaker 1: twenty thousand, and you're using the sphere concept. Everybody there 2978 02:19:41,120 --> 02:19:43,680 Speaker 1: is getting a different sound. But if you're using the 2979 02:19:43,800 --> 02:19:47,800 Speaker 1: immersive concept, are I going to hear something completely different? 2980 02:19:47,959 --> 02:19:51,160 Speaker 1: If I'm you know, up in the rafters as opposed 2981 02:19:51,160 --> 02:19:53,440 Speaker 1: to on the floor, you could. I mean, in that 2982 02:19:53,560 --> 02:19:58,200 Speaker 1: situation you're gonna do, You're gonna have areas of seating 2983 02:19:58,560 --> 02:20:01,680 Speaker 1: that are going to be optimized for the immersive. Right, 2984 02:20:01,800 --> 02:20:04,280 Speaker 1: they're gonna this section of seats, maybe this is the 2985 02:20:04,320 --> 02:20:07,720 Speaker 1: floor seats, and the first bowl might be optimized for 2986 02:20:07,800 --> 02:20:11,119 Speaker 1: immersive where they get the immersive experience, and then people 2987 02:20:11,200 --> 02:20:13,680 Speaker 1: up in the upper things still can hear the show, 2988 02:20:13,920 --> 02:20:16,520 Speaker 1: they would hear what would be we would term a 2989 02:20:16,640 --> 02:20:19,520 Speaker 1: folded down version of the show. Right, they wouldn't experience 2990 02:20:19,600 --> 02:20:22,119 Speaker 1: the spatial element of the immersive, but they would still 2991 02:20:22,320 --> 02:20:25,840 Speaker 1: still hear all the elements. Right, So it just becomes 2992 02:20:25,920 --> 02:20:28,480 Speaker 1: phil speakers in that part of the arena, and they 2993 02:20:28,560 --> 02:20:30,880 Speaker 1: still hear the show and still hear every element of it, 2994 02:20:31,240 --> 02:20:34,879 Speaker 1: they just don't experience it immersively. Right. And your favorite buildings? 2995 02:20:35,160 --> 02:20:42,440 Speaker 1: Who favorite buildings? Um? I think my favorite sounding building 2996 02:20:42,520 --> 02:20:44,960 Speaker 1: that I've mixed in in the past ten years is 2997 02:20:45,000 --> 02:20:48,120 Speaker 1: probably the new FedEx Place, FedEx Dome or whatever you 2998 02:20:48,160 --> 02:20:49,760 Speaker 1: wanna call it in Memphis. I think the place in 2999 02:20:49,840 --> 02:20:54,400 Speaker 1: Memphis just sounds absolutely fantastic. Whatever they've done to it, 3000 02:20:54,520 --> 02:20:56,480 Speaker 1: you know what, have treated it however, they've done it 3001 02:20:56,760 --> 02:21:01,520 Speaker 1: absolutely fantastic. Um. I love me in the Gorge. I 3002 02:21:01,600 --> 02:21:05,200 Speaker 1: love Red Rocks. I love mixing at Red Rocks. I 3003 02:21:05,320 --> 02:21:07,640 Speaker 1: like the Hollywood Bowl. I'm actually fine at the Hollywood Bowl. 3004 02:21:07,680 --> 02:21:09,200 Speaker 1: I like I like how it sounds there, and I 3005 02:21:09,280 --> 02:21:13,240 Speaker 1: like the PA installed they got there. So um, I 3006 02:21:13,320 --> 02:21:16,840 Speaker 1: mean there's there's a lot of good places now, you know. 3007 02:21:16,959 --> 02:21:19,920 Speaker 1: I mean the architects are doing really good jobs with 3008 02:21:20,120 --> 02:21:22,480 Speaker 1: the places. That. Honestly, the places I hate the most 3009 02:21:23,440 --> 02:21:26,039 Speaker 1: are the places that are actually designed to do performance, 3010 02:21:26,320 --> 02:21:28,560 Speaker 1: which are the indoor outdoor sheds, you know, I think 3011 02:21:28,600 --> 02:21:31,000 Speaker 1: those are the those are some of the most challenging 3012 02:21:31,040 --> 02:21:34,440 Speaker 1: places to do, which is really unfortunate because they're designed 3013 02:21:34,480 --> 02:21:37,000 Speaker 1: to handle performance, you know, just because their indoor outdoor 3014 02:21:37,240 --> 02:21:39,760 Speaker 1: and there's a roof, low roof, yeah, just the well, 3015 02:21:39,879 --> 02:21:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, you would you would be tempted to think, well, 3016 02:21:42,560 --> 02:21:45,160 Speaker 1: it's outdoors, there's no acoustics, blah blah blah. You know, 3017 02:21:45,320 --> 02:21:47,480 Speaker 1: but yeah, there is lots of acoustics because of the 3018 02:21:48,200 --> 02:21:52,800 Speaker 1: coverage of the audience. It's usually all very hard material, 3019 02:21:53,200 --> 02:21:57,680 Speaker 1: very reverberant down under the under the roof. So then 3020 02:21:57,760 --> 02:21:59,560 Speaker 1: you have you have to address both worlds. You have 3021 02:21:59,640 --> 02:22:01,800 Speaker 1: to addres us a world that is outside the roof, 3022 02:22:02,000 --> 02:22:06,680 Speaker 1: which is outside, no reflections, no ambience, no anything, and 3023 02:22:06,760 --> 02:22:09,320 Speaker 1: then a very reverberant space down where all the seats are, 3024 02:22:09,800 --> 02:22:14,280 Speaker 1: and usually a stage area that sounds less than optimum, 3025 02:22:14,320 --> 02:22:16,600 Speaker 1: we'll put it that way. So to me, they're very, 3026 02:22:16,680 --> 02:22:19,440 Speaker 1: very challenging to do and very challenging to get speakers 3027 02:22:19,480 --> 02:22:22,279 Speaker 1: in the right places, in those right positions, in those places. 3028 02:22:22,400 --> 02:22:25,959 Speaker 1: So those are the most disappointing places to me. It's like, gosh, man, Fellas, 3029 02:22:26,000 --> 02:22:28,640 Speaker 1: if you're going to design it to do performance, how 3030 02:22:28,640 --> 02:22:32,879 Speaker 1: about we take these things into consideration. You know. Well, Robert, 3031 02:22:32,920 --> 02:22:34,960 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for taking so much time. 3032 02:22:35,000 --> 02:22:36,640 Speaker 1: I could listen to you all day. This is all 3033 02:22:36,720 --> 02:22:39,000 Speaker 1: really interesting stuff, because you know, you go to the 3034 02:22:39,040 --> 02:22:41,160 Speaker 1: show and you want to know what's behind the Other 3035 02:22:41,240 --> 02:22:44,120 Speaker 1: thing I want to say is you sent me the 3036 02:22:44,480 --> 02:22:47,680 Speaker 1: article that you wrote about Russell Pope. Yeah. I was 3037 02:22:47,800 --> 02:22:50,600 Speaker 1: stunned how well written it was. Oh well, thank you 3038 02:22:50,800 --> 02:22:54,960 Speaker 1: that seriously. I mean, I read for a living and 3039 02:22:55,160 --> 02:22:58,800 Speaker 1: most people can't write. I mean, so when someone writes, well, 3040 02:22:58,920 --> 02:23:00,880 Speaker 1: and this is not blowing smoke because it didn't have it. 3041 02:23:01,040 --> 02:23:04,120 Speaker 1: I'm literally reading, I'm shocked because most of this stuff 3042 02:23:04,440 --> 02:23:07,040 Speaker 1: is unreadable. Oh my gosh, thank you. I mean, that's 3043 02:23:07,120 --> 02:23:09,280 Speaker 1: that's really kind. I mean, I I kind of pride 3044 02:23:09,320 --> 02:23:11,440 Speaker 1: myself on it. I mean I've written, you know, dozens 3045 02:23:11,480 --> 02:23:14,280 Speaker 1: and dozens of articles and you know, obviously been featured 3046 02:23:14,320 --> 02:23:16,120 Speaker 1: in quite a few. But I mean I enjoy writing. 3047 02:23:16,240 --> 02:23:19,520 Speaker 1: I do. I I mean I enjoy putting blogs together 3048 02:23:19,680 --> 02:23:22,160 Speaker 1: things like that. So yeah, thank you. That's that's very kind. 3049 02:23:22,280 --> 02:23:24,760 Speaker 1: I'm very appreciative that you said it's hard felt. In 3050 02:23:24,840 --> 02:23:26,560 Speaker 1: any event, I want to thank you taking for the time. 3051 02:23:26,640 --> 02:23:29,760 Speaker 1: You've just been fantastic, so thanks again, Well, thank you. 3052 02:23:29,920 --> 02:23:32,040 Speaker 1: I mean it's you know, I was a little uh, 3053 02:23:32,680 --> 02:23:34,600 Speaker 1: you know when when I was asking to be on 3054 02:23:34,720 --> 02:23:36,200 Speaker 1: your show, I was just thinking, oh my gosh, what 3055 02:23:36,360 --> 02:23:37,760 Speaker 1: is this sound guy going to talk about on the 3056 02:23:37,800 --> 02:23:40,760 Speaker 1: Bob left Side Show. I was like, what are we 3057 02:23:40,800 --> 02:23:43,040 Speaker 1: going to cover? Man? But you know, thank you for 3058 02:23:43,120 --> 02:23:45,200 Speaker 1: making it so easy. And well, I say, there's so 3059 02:23:45,360 --> 02:23:47,879 Speaker 1: much we didn't cover. They go deep in the weeds, 3060 02:23:47,959 --> 02:23:50,520 Speaker 1: but I think we got a pretty good s mortgage 3061 02:23:50,600 --> 02:23:54,080 Speaker 1: board of what's going on. So Robert, thanks again. Hey, 3062 02:23:54,160 --> 02:23:55,840 Speaker 1: thank you and thanks for your letters. I mean, I 3063 02:23:56,160 --> 02:23:58,760 Speaker 1: enjoy your your thing. And before this I didn't even 3064 02:23:58,800 --> 02:24:00,959 Speaker 1: know you had a podcast. So now I'm really glad 3065 02:24:01,040 --> 02:24:03,120 Speaker 1: I can I can listen to you while I'm working 3066 02:24:03,120 --> 02:24:06,199 Speaker 1: out now, so it would be good. Absolutely until next time. 3067 02:24:06,560 --> 02:24:29,760 Speaker 1: This is Bob left Sex m