1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:25,356 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Growing up is weird. One moment you're a kid, 2 00:00:25,676 --> 00:00:27,556 Speaker 1: you feel certain that you know what you need to 3 00:00:27,596 --> 00:00:30,476 Speaker 1: be happy, but there's often a very frustrating obstacle in 4 00:00:30,516 --> 00:00:30,956 Speaker 1: your way. 5 00:00:31,276 --> 00:00:31,836 Speaker 2: Adults. 6 00:00:32,396 --> 00:00:36,116 Speaker 1: Those authority figures, often your very own parents, who insist 7 00:00:36,156 --> 00:00:38,476 Speaker 1: that just because they've been around longer, they know it's 8 00:00:38,516 --> 00:00:41,316 Speaker 1: best for you. It can feel maddening. You swear that 9 00:00:41,356 --> 00:00:45,036 Speaker 1: when you have kids, things will be different, you will understand, 10 00:00:45,716 --> 00:00:47,876 Speaker 1: and then, in what seems like an instant, you're the 11 00:00:47,916 --> 00:00:50,796 Speaker 1: grown up. You've got your own kids. It's your turn 12 00:00:50,836 --> 00:00:53,836 Speaker 1: to be in charge, and somehow along the way, you've 13 00:00:53,876 --> 00:00:56,756 Speaker 1: forgotten that promise that you made to yourself. You find 14 00:00:56,756 --> 00:00:59,916 Speaker 1: yourself caught up in that same intergenerational tension that you 15 00:01:00,036 --> 00:01:03,156 Speaker 1: once swore to avoid. In this episode in our series 16 00:01:03,156 --> 00:01:06,116 Speaker 1: on Happier Parenting, I'm talking with someone who's trying to 17 00:01:06,116 --> 00:01:09,916 Speaker 1: break that cycle by changing the way adults and kids communicate. 18 00:01:10,316 --> 00:01:13,116 Speaker 2: Hi. I'm David Yaeger. I'm a developmental psychologist and the 19 00:01:13,196 --> 00:01:15,276 Speaker 2: author of the book ten to twenty five. 20 00:01:15,676 --> 00:01:18,316 Speaker 1: David's book explores the science of how to motivate young 21 00:01:18,356 --> 00:01:22,476 Speaker 1: people effectively, and his effective strategy begins with understanding the 22 00:01:22,516 --> 00:01:26,036 Speaker 1: kids in our life, which admittedly is hard, not only 23 00:01:26,076 --> 00:01:28,116 Speaker 1: because we've forgotten what it's like to be a child, 24 00:01:28,436 --> 00:01:30,676 Speaker 1: but also because it can feel like kids today are 25 00:01:30,716 --> 00:01:32,676 Speaker 1: speaking an entirely different language. 26 00:01:32,916 --> 00:01:35,396 Speaker 2: We have four kids and two teenagers, and you know 27 00:01:35,396 --> 00:01:39,036 Speaker 2: a lot of skibbety toilet rizzler g oughts in our house. 28 00:01:39,556 --> 00:01:43,956 Speaker 1: The slang can be funny and sometimes completely indecipherable, but 29 00:01:43,996 --> 00:01:47,596 Speaker 1: the true parent child communication breakdown often goes much deeper 30 00:01:47,596 --> 00:01:48,476 Speaker 1: than vocabulary. 31 00:01:49,316 --> 00:01:54,036 Speaker 2: There's this equivocation. When adults say listen to me, what 32 00:01:54,076 --> 00:01:57,796 Speaker 2: they mean is do exactly what I say right now, 33 00:01:57,876 --> 00:02:01,636 Speaker 2: without any argument. And when kids say you didn't listen 34 00:02:01,676 --> 00:02:04,236 Speaker 2: to me, what they mean is you didn't make me 35 00:02:04,316 --> 00:02:07,236 Speaker 2: feel hurt. You didn't understand my perspective. And where I'm 36 00:02:07,236 --> 00:02:09,956 Speaker 2: coming from, a lot of times kids have a reason 37 00:02:10,036 --> 00:02:12,836 Speaker 2: for why they don't want to do something, and we 38 00:02:12,836 --> 00:02:16,796 Speaker 2: were uncurious about that. And so because of that equivocation, 39 00:02:16,876 --> 00:02:19,916 Speaker 2: we get into this conflict where we say one thing 40 00:02:20,196 --> 00:02:22,756 Speaker 2: and then they hear another, and then there's this fight 41 00:02:22,916 --> 00:02:26,396 Speaker 2: over our misinterpretations. And I think a lot of times 42 00:02:26,436 --> 00:02:29,996 Speaker 2: what we need to think about is not necessarily having 43 00:02:30,036 --> 00:02:34,436 Speaker 2: our goal be the conventional. Maybe nineteen fifties parents' version 44 00:02:34,516 --> 00:02:37,956 Speaker 2: of listening or respect. It doesn't mean that they subjugate 45 00:02:37,996 --> 00:02:41,476 Speaker 2: their entire will to everything we say immediately, but instead 46 00:02:41,516 --> 00:02:43,236 Speaker 2: we want them to be able to be proactive and 47 00:02:43,236 --> 00:02:45,276 Speaker 2: make great choices that are good for their long term 48 00:02:45,316 --> 00:02:48,156 Speaker 2: health that may or may not align with the immediate 49 00:02:48,236 --> 00:02:49,676 Speaker 2: thing we need them to do right now. 50 00:02:49,796 --> 00:02:51,396 Speaker 1: And part of what we go wrong when we're trying 51 00:02:51,396 --> 00:02:53,716 Speaker 1: to motivate kids, as you've argued, is that we kind 52 00:02:53,716 --> 00:02:56,556 Speaker 1: of have this incorrect model of how young people work. 53 00:02:56,836 --> 00:02:58,916 Speaker 1: So it's the usual model that we bring to how 54 00:02:58,996 --> 00:03:00,036 Speaker 1: the young brain works. 55 00:03:00,476 --> 00:03:04,436 Speaker 2: The conventional model is something I call the neurobiological incompetence model, 56 00:03:04,636 --> 00:03:07,196 Speaker 2: and it's the idea of that young people just lack 57 00:03:07,516 --> 00:03:10,116 Speaker 2: a prefrontal cortex. They can't think about the future, they 58 00:03:10,116 --> 00:03:13,356 Speaker 2: can't plan or reason logically, and because of that, we 59 00:03:13,436 --> 00:03:15,756 Speaker 2: need to make all the decisions for them. That is, 60 00:03:15,796 --> 00:03:18,796 Speaker 2: if young people lack the planning part of the brain, 61 00:03:19,196 --> 00:03:22,636 Speaker 2: then there are risks to themselves into society at all times. 62 00:03:22,836 --> 00:03:26,716 Speaker 2: And once we adopt that view, then our communication approach 63 00:03:26,996 --> 00:03:29,956 Speaker 2: turns into something that I call grown explaining, which is 64 00:03:29,996 --> 00:03:33,836 Speaker 2: where we just explain our thoughts and our plans for 65 00:03:33,916 --> 00:03:37,236 Speaker 2: them and expect them to willingly do whatever we say. 66 00:03:37,716 --> 00:03:40,636 Speaker 2: And although that makes sense to us because we think 67 00:03:40,716 --> 00:03:43,836 Speaker 2: we're more logical in a lot of ways, it doesn't 68 00:03:43,876 --> 00:03:46,356 Speaker 2: work well because young people don't want to be communicated 69 00:03:46,396 --> 00:03:49,076 Speaker 2: to in that way, comes across as disrespectful, and it 70 00:03:49,156 --> 00:03:52,756 Speaker 2: ends up thwarting our goals because young people reject what 71 00:03:52,916 --> 00:03:55,276 Speaker 2: we say, not because of the information, but because of 72 00:03:55,316 --> 00:03:56,556 Speaker 2: the way in which it was delivered. 73 00:03:56,716 --> 00:03:59,436 Speaker 1: And you've talked about two consequences of this sort of 74 00:03:59,516 --> 00:04:02,036 Speaker 1: mode of thinking about young people that we either become 75 00:04:02,116 --> 00:04:04,516 Speaker 1: kind of too authoritarian or too permissive. What do you 76 00:04:04,596 --> 00:04:05,036 Speaker 1: mean there? 77 00:04:05,276 --> 00:04:09,476 Speaker 2: Classic research going back eighty years suggests that for a 78 00:04:09,516 --> 00:04:13,356 Speaker 2: lot of parents there's a kind of nice and nasty dance, 79 00:04:13,636 --> 00:04:18,676 Speaker 2: you could call it, where either we start out saying, look, 80 00:04:18,716 --> 00:04:20,716 Speaker 2: here's the law, here's what we need to do. This 81 00:04:20,796 --> 00:04:23,756 Speaker 2: is very important. You've got to listen to me. And 82 00:04:24,716 --> 00:04:28,396 Speaker 2: when young people don't immediately acquiesced, then we increase threats, 83 00:04:28,596 --> 00:04:31,876 Speaker 2: we increase punishment, maybe we try a little bit of 84 00:04:31,916 --> 00:04:34,916 Speaker 2: bribery or distraction or sleight of hand. 85 00:04:35,076 --> 00:04:37,556 Speaker 1: I think all parents listening right now get this mode. Yep. 86 00:04:37,756 --> 00:04:40,156 Speaker 2: So that's like the nasty part, and then we feel guilty. 87 00:04:40,476 --> 00:04:43,396 Speaker 2: We've fallen off the wagon. We haven't been intentional parents. 88 00:04:43,436 --> 00:04:47,636 Speaker 2: We didn't do what the Instagram video that your spouse 89 00:04:47,676 --> 00:04:49,756 Speaker 2: since you told you that you're supposed to do, and 90 00:04:49,916 --> 00:04:53,036 Speaker 2: you just feel ashamed about yourself. And so we go 91 00:04:53,156 --> 00:04:55,716 Speaker 2: back into nice mode and we become permissive and we 92 00:04:55,756 --> 00:04:58,116 Speaker 2: say they need a little time with no rules to 93 00:04:58,116 --> 00:05:00,876 Speaker 2: just do what they want. But eventually, of course, kids 94 00:05:00,916 --> 00:05:02,636 Speaker 2: being kids, get out of control and we have to 95 00:05:02,636 --> 00:05:05,516 Speaker 2: put the nasty hat back on. And so it feels 96 00:05:05,556 --> 00:05:07,796 Speaker 2: like there's this dilemma that we can either be tough 97 00:05:07,836 --> 00:05:11,596 Speaker 2: authoritarians that lay down the law, or we can be 98 00:05:11,956 --> 00:05:15,916 Speaker 2: kind and friendly and caring but then be pushovers. And 99 00:05:16,116 --> 00:05:19,956 Speaker 2: what I argue is that there's valid parts of both 100 00:05:19,996 --> 00:05:22,556 Speaker 2: of those. You can do a version of both. You 101 00:05:22,556 --> 00:05:25,796 Speaker 2: can have very tough standards and be unrelenting on what's 102 00:05:25,796 --> 00:05:28,396 Speaker 2: important to do, but you can be very flexible and 103 00:05:28,516 --> 00:05:31,436 Speaker 2: caring and concern about how young people live up to 104 00:05:31,436 --> 00:05:33,876 Speaker 2: those standards so that way they can actually reach it 105 00:05:34,116 --> 00:05:36,836 Speaker 2: without all of the fighting and threats and blame. 106 00:05:37,116 --> 00:05:38,796 Speaker 1: And an easier way to do that, you've argued, is 107 00:05:38,876 --> 00:05:40,916 Speaker 1: to come up with a kind of better, maybe more 108 00:05:40,916 --> 00:05:44,836 Speaker 1: accurate theory of what the adolescent brain is trying to maximize. 109 00:05:44,996 --> 00:05:47,876 Speaker 1: So evolutionarily, how should we think about the young people brain. 110 00:05:47,996 --> 00:05:50,436 Speaker 1: It's not this idea that it's incompetent. What else is 111 00:05:50,476 --> 00:05:51,916 Speaker 1: it trying to do? What's its mission? 112 00:05:52,516 --> 00:05:55,276 Speaker 2: Of course, the brain develops, and so there are different 113 00:05:55,356 --> 00:05:58,596 Speaker 2: levels of ability and maturity, but what we try to 114 00:05:58,636 --> 00:06:01,156 Speaker 2: focus on is in the ten to twenty five range 115 00:06:01,156 --> 00:06:03,636 Speaker 2: and even maybe a little earlier, there's a shift in 116 00:06:03,716 --> 00:06:08,596 Speaker 2: motivational priorities, and those motivational priorities can influence what young 117 00:06:08,636 --> 00:06:11,716 Speaker 2: people choose to pay attention to. That is, where do 118 00:06:11,796 --> 00:06:16,036 Speaker 2: they deploy their considerable intellectual powers. And once you think 119 00:06:16,036 --> 00:06:19,876 Speaker 2: of it as a motivation problem and not solely an 120 00:06:19,956 --> 00:06:23,436 Speaker 2: ability problem, then you realize, well, maybe I'm not tapping 121 00:06:23,436 --> 00:06:26,676 Speaker 2: into the right source of motivation. And it's like, our 122 00:06:26,716 --> 00:06:30,076 Speaker 2: conventional view is that kids are motivated primarily by the 123 00:06:30,116 --> 00:06:32,436 Speaker 2: desire to please their parents or at least not piss 124 00:06:32,476 --> 00:06:35,116 Speaker 2: off their parents. And we get offended. We're like, don't 125 00:06:35,116 --> 00:06:37,276 Speaker 2: you know how angry you're making me like right now? 126 00:06:37,716 --> 00:06:41,076 Speaker 2: And it feels like they're trying to intentionally get our 127 00:06:41,076 --> 00:06:43,836 Speaker 2: goat for something. But they've got a different set of 128 00:06:43,916 --> 00:06:46,956 Speaker 2: priorities that often it's especially in the peer group, to 129 00:06:47,036 --> 00:06:50,716 Speaker 2: look in appear like a respect worthy person who deserves 130 00:06:50,916 --> 00:06:54,036 Speaker 2: status and has a good reputation. That is, someone who's 131 00:06:54,076 --> 00:06:57,116 Speaker 2: viewed as socially valuable. And that's a good thing that 132 00:06:57,236 --> 00:07:00,676 Speaker 2: in our evolutionary past helped young people learn how to 133 00:07:00,876 --> 00:07:03,756 Speaker 2: be contributors to our culture and to our society. But 134 00:07:04,116 --> 00:07:06,636 Speaker 2: we often fail to tap into that source of motivation 135 00:07:07,116 --> 00:07:09,596 Speaker 2: and therefore we end up at loggerheads with them. But 136 00:07:09,596 --> 00:07:13,756 Speaker 2: there are examples of great parents, leaders, coaches, teachers who 137 00:07:13,836 --> 00:07:15,996 Speaker 2: do know how to tap in to that drive for 138 00:07:15,996 --> 00:07:18,876 Speaker 2: status and respect, and they do end up with well 139 00:07:18,876 --> 00:07:22,396 Speaker 2: deployed prefrontal cortices where young people can plan ahead and 140 00:07:22,436 --> 00:07:24,356 Speaker 2: be proactive and do what we think is right. 141 00:07:24,636 --> 00:07:26,516 Speaker 1: You've talked in the book about some of these cases 142 00:07:26,556 --> 00:07:28,916 Speaker 1: of both individual people that have done this well, but 143 00:07:28,956 --> 00:07:30,956 Speaker 1: also kind of programs that have done this well. One 144 00:07:30,956 --> 00:07:32,676 Speaker 1: of my favorite examples that you talk about in the 145 00:07:32,676 --> 00:07:36,516 Speaker 1: book are these so called effective anti tobacco programs. How 146 00:07:36,516 --> 00:07:39,316 Speaker 1: did the tobacco program sort of harness this idea that 147 00:07:39,396 --> 00:07:42,556 Speaker 1: young people really want to be independent and be respected 148 00:07:42,596 --> 00:07:43,076 Speaker 1: and so on? 149 00:07:43,756 --> 00:07:48,476 Speaker 2: Briefly, the bad programs use a tagline to attack teen smoking. 150 00:07:48,476 --> 00:07:50,716 Speaker 2: This is in the late nineteen nineties early two thousands, 151 00:07:50,756 --> 00:07:54,196 Speaker 2: and their tagline was think don't smoke. Now, think about that. 152 00:07:54,476 --> 00:07:57,316 Speaker 2: If I tell you to think, the grammatical implication is 153 00:07:57,356 --> 00:07:59,836 Speaker 2: that you're not thinking, like if I told you to 154 00:07:59,876 --> 00:08:02,036 Speaker 2: smile right now, that's a weird thing to say, David, 155 00:08:02,076 --> 00:08:04,836 Speaker 2: because I'm smiling. Yeah. The implication is that if I 156 00:08:04,956 --> 00:08:06,996 Speaker 2: tell you to do it with a command, that you're 157 00:08:07,036 --> 00:08:10,676 Speaker 2: not doing it, and so think already an insult. But 158 00:08:10,716 --> 00:08:13,756 Speaker 2: then don't smoke. Not only does that threaten your autonomy 159 00:08:13,836 --> 00:08:15,716 Speaker 2: as a young person, and one of the main things 160 00:08:15,756 --> 00:08:17,756 Speaker 2: you want to do in your teenage years is have 161 00:08:17,836 --> 00:08:21,036 Speaker 2: a sense of grown up autonomy and independence, but also 162 00:08:21,436 --> 00:08:23,516 Speaker 2: it's implying I think I'm the kind of person who 163 00:08:23,596 --> 00:08:26,476 Speaker 2: gets to tell you what to do. So again, it 164 00:08:26,596 --> 00:08:30,196 Speaker 2: was very serious insults. In three words, it's kind of 165 00:08:30,236 --> 00:08:33,476 Speaker 2: evil genius situation where it turns out that a desire 166 00:08:33,476 --> 00:08:36,396 Speaker 2: to smoke increased the more that to think don't smoke 167 00:08:36,476 --> 00:08:39,756 Speaker 2: ads were played in those neighborhoods. The alternative was something 168 00:08:39,756 --> 00:08:43,516 Speaker 2: called the truth campaign, and this was developed by an 169 00:08:43,516 --> 00:08:46,956 Speaker 2: adver called Crispin Porter plus Boguski's a guy named Alex 170 00:08:46,996 --> 00:08:51,116 Speaker 2: Boguski who kind of understood intuitively what motivated young people, 171 00:08:51,676 --> 00:08:55,916 Speaker 2: and the truth campaign sought to portray teenagers as flooding 172 00:08:55,996 --> 00:09:00,036 Speaker 2: the streets, fighting back against the tobacco executives, telling them 173 00:09:00,076 --> 00:09:03,156 Speaker 2: to stop killing teenagers and getting them addicted. In a 174 00:09:03,156 --> 00:09:05,796 Speaker 2: famous ad, there's body bags they throw on the ground, 175 00:09:06,196 --> 00:09:09,916 Speaker 2: and someone holds up a sign outside of a large 176 00:09:09,996 --> 00:09:13,316 Speaker 2: high rise building purportedly filled with tobacco executives, and the 177 00:09:13,356 --> 00:09:16,636 Speaker 2: science says smoking kills twelve thousand people a day. Have 178 00:09:16,716 --> 00:09:19,316 Speaker 2: you ever thought of taking a day off? So there's 179 00:09:19,396 --> 00:09:22,836 Speaker 2: no grown explaining about the value of non smoking for 180 00:09:22,916 --> 00:09:26,796 Speaker 2: preventing cancer. It's not like a health class situation. It's 181 00:09:26,956 --> 00:09:29,636 Speaker 2: you're joining your peers to stand up for yourselves and 182 00:09:29,636 --> 00:09:34,276 Speaker 2: what's right and fight against injustice, and that every time 183 00:09:34,316 --> 00:09:37,476 Speaker 2: you smoke and do the unhealthy thing, you're giving money 184 00:09:37,516 --> 00:09:39,996 Speaker 2: to people who think they can manipulate you and control 185 00:09:40,036 --> 00:09:42,556 Speaker 2: you and harm others. And so that taps into an 186 00:09:42,596 --> 00:09:47,236 Speaker 2: adolescent value that people already have adolescent desire for independence, autonomy, 187 00:09:47,276 --> 00:09:50,276 Speaker 2: and a concern for social justice. My colleague Chris Brian 188 00:09:50,316 --> 00:09:53,276 Speaker 2: a brilliant psychologist likes to say it's often far more 189 00:09:53,276 --> 00:09:56,636 Speaker 2: effective to change behavior by getting people to see the 190 00:09:56,636 --> 00:10:00,196 Speaker 2: behavior as aligned with the value already have, rather than 191 00:10:00,236 --> 00:10:02,516 Speaker 2: getting you to care about a different value, such as 192 00:10:02,556 --> 00:10:05,636 Speaker 2: long term health. And we've used that insight in a 193 00:10:05,636 --> 00:10:08,396 Speaker 2: bunch of different ways, for instance, getting teenagers to eat 194 00:10:08,436 --> 00:10:11,956 Speaker 2: healthy buy fruits and vegetables, and drink water rather than 195 00:10:11,996 --> 00:10:15,116 Speaker 2: soda and eat ice cream by saying that to food companies, 196 00:10:15,396 --> 00:10:17,156 Speaker 2: the reason why they create a bunch of cartoons is 197 00:10:17,196 --> 00:10:20,236 Speaker 2: to get children addicted in poor neighborhoods and exploit them. 198 00:10:20,516 --> 00:10:23,996 Speaker 2: And so kids stand up against the companies by eating 199 00:10:24,076 --> 00:10:25,236 Speaker 2: healthy food and the luncher. 200 00:10:25,436 --> 00:10:27,156 Speaker 1: And this also seems to be getting at something else 201 00:10:27,196 --> 00:10:30,596 Speaker 1: that this sort of incompetence hypothesis doesn't it really allow 202 00:10:30,716 --> 00:10:32,676 Speaker 1: kids to do, which is like these new ads are 203 00:10:32,716 --> 00:10:34,996 Speaker 1: kind of saying, hey, kids, you're competent. When you actually 204 00:10:35,036 --> 00:10:37,356 Speaker 1: see what these companies are doing, you will choose yourself 205 00:10:37,396 --> 00:10:39,276 Speaker 1: not to smoke. It's sort of assuming that they have 206 00:10:39,716 --> 00:10:42,436 Speaker 1: autonomy competence, like kind of giving them respect. 207 00:10:42,636 --> 00:10:45,156 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it also it's not like giving them a skill. 208 00:10:45,196 --> 00:10:47,636 Speaker 2: It's not like these commercials are how to say, no 209 00:10:47,956 --> 00:10:50,436 Speaker 2: to your friends kind of thing. And that's what the 210 00:10:50,436 --> 00:10:52,596 Speaker 2: public health establishment thinks is you need to give kids 211 00:10:52,636 --> 00:10:54,796 Speaker 2: a script for how to say no to drugs or whatever. 212 00:10:55,196 --> 00:10:57,676 Speaker 2: But they appreciate the fact that if you look at 213 00:10:57,756 --> 00:11:00,476 Speaker 2: dare where they're going in classrooms and doing skits on 214 00:11:00,516 --> 00:11:03,036 Speaker 2: how to say no to your friends. Almost always in 215 00:11:03,076 --> 00:11:06,116 Speaker 2: those skits, the coolest kid is the kid offering drugs, 216 00:11:06,316 --> 00:11:08,716 Speaker 2: and it's the nerd you're saying no. So now you've 217 00:11:08,756 --> 00:11:11,076 Speaker 2: just shown, oh, a whole group of like twelve year 218 00:11:11,116 --> 00:11:14,196 Speaker 2: olds that dork say no to drugs, and cool kids 219 00:11:14,316 --> 00:11:17,516 Speaker 2: are the ones offering everybody drugs. And the truth campaign 220 00:11:17,916 --> 00:11:20,836 Speaker 2: they're not just teaching a road skill, they're framing the 221 00:11:20,876 --> 00:11:23,356 Speaker 2: behavior in a different way and then assuming that young 222 00:11:23,356 --> 00:11:27,716 Speaker 2: people's creativity and their agency and ability is allowing them 223 00:11:27,756 --> 00:11:30,036 Speaker 2: to figure out how to say no and how to 224 00:11:30,116 --> 00:11:30,636 Speaker 2: not smoke. 225 00:11:31,116 --> 00:11:35,196 Speaker 1: It's striking how much adults still misunderstand young people, especially 226 00:11:35,356 --> 00:11:38,476 Speaker 1: since we were all young ones. But children and adolescents 227 00:11:38,516 --> 00:11:41,716 Speaker 1: just want independence and respect like all people do. And 228 00:11:41,756 --> 00:11:43,876 Speaker 1: when we learn to tap into that desire with care, 229 00:11:44,316 --> 00:11:47,876 Speaker 1: life can improve for everyone, regardless of age. But how 230 00:11:47,916 --> 00:11:50,596 Speaker 1: can you be considerate about your child's need for respect 231 00:11:50,956 --> 00:11:53,516 Speaker 1: when it feels like they're the ones who aren't respecting you. 232 00:11:54,116 --> 00:11:56,556 Speaker 1: After the break, I'll talk with David about the kinds 233 00:11:56,556 --> 00:11:59,316 Speaker 1: of questions we need to ask to build mutual understanding. 234 00:11:59,716 --> 00:12:02,036 Speaker 1: Even in those cases where your child seems to be 235 00:12:02,076 --> 00:12:06,116 Speaker 1: acting completely irrationally, the Happiness Lab will be right back. 236 00:12:14,076 --> 00:12:14,476 Speaker 2: A claim. 237 00:12:14,556 --> 00:12:17,836 Speaker 1: Developmental psychologist David Yaeger is the author of the new 238 00:12:17,836 --> 00:12:20,996 Speaker 1: book ten to twenty five, The Science of Motivating Young 239 00:12:20,996 --> 00:12:24,756 Speaker 1: People and surprise, surprise, what motivates kids isn't all that 240 00:12:24,836 --> 00:12:28,396 Speaker 1: different than what drives adults. So if we want healthy, happy, 241 00:12:28,516 --> 00:12:31,076 Speaker 1: engaged children, we need to take a closer look at 242 00:12:31,076 --> 00:12:34,276 Speaker 1: the strategies we use to motivate our kids. And David 243 00:12:34,316 --> 00:12:37,956 Speaker 1: has found that even well intentioned parents often use strategies 244 00:12:38,036 --> 00:12:41,636 Speaker 1: that at their core are pretty ineffective. And perhaps the 245 00:12:41,676 --> 00:12:45,836 Speaker 1: most common ineffective strategy is the age old habit of nagging. 246 00:12:46,196 --> 00:12:48,756 Speaker 2: There's a beautiful study by Jennifer Silk. She did a 247 00:12:48,796 --> 00:12:52,036 Speaker 2: broader study of maternal depression of moms and teenage daughters, 248 00:12:52,036 --> 00:12:53,596 Speaker 2: and as a part of that study, they brought the 249 00:12:53,596 --> 00:12:56,396 Speaker 2: teenage daughters into the lab and put them in the 250 00:12:56,476 --> 00:12:59,436 Speaker 2: fMRI machine. So there's a huge magnet wearing around their heads. 251 00:12:59,556 --> 00:13:02,956 Speaker 2: And while the teenage girls are preparing for the experiment, 252 00:13:03,156 --> 00:13:06,916 Speaker 2: they listen to their moms nagging them so that moms 253 00:13:06,916 --> 00:13:09,756 Speaker 2: are completing the sentence what bothers me about you is, 254 00:13:10,796 --> 00:13:14,876 Speaker 2: And what they find is that zero percent of teenage 255 00:13:14,916 --> 00:13:16,916 Speaker 2: daughters are like, you know, mom, you have a point. 256 00:13:17,036 --> 00:13:20,476 Speaker 2: I'm really glad you raised all these concerns with my behavior. 257 00:13:20,796 --> 00:13:22,956 Speaker 2: Good chat, I've got a list and i'll get back 258 00:13:22,956 --> 00:13:25,676 Speaker 2: to you. Like that doesn't happen. Instead, what you see 259 00:13:25,756 --> 00:13:28,316 Speaker 2: is a dramatic increase in the teenage girls regions of 260 00:13:28,356 --> 00:13:31,156 Speaker 2: the brain related to anger, and a decrease in the 261 00:13:31,196 --> 00:13:35,716 Speaker 2: dorslateral prefrontal cortex regions related to planning, reasoning, thinking ahead, 262 00:13:35,956 --> 00:13:38,756 Speaker 2: but also a decrease in regions related to social cognition, 263 00:13:38,836 --> 00:13:42,076 Speaker 2: the temporo pridal junction. And that's the basic idea that 264 00:13:42,196 --> 00:13:43,756 Speaker 2: a lot of times when a parent is making a 265 00:13:43,796 --> 00:13:46,876 Speaker 2: request of a kid, we're doing it indirectly, and so 266 00:13:46,996 --> 00:13:49,996 Speaker 2: the kid needs to infer something about the mom's state 267 00:13:50,036 --> 00:13:52,556 Speaker 2: of mind or the dad's state of mind. An example 268 00:13:52,596 --> 00:13:54,476 Speaker 2: is when my kid was really young, I used to 269 00:13:54,516 --> 00:13:56,276 Speaker 2: walk by a huge pile of legos that was a 270 00:13:56,316 --> 00:13:57,916 Speaker 2: mess in the middle of the Room'd be like, do 271 00:13:57,916 --> 00:14:00,036 Speaker 2: you want to clean up those legos? And you would 272 00:14:00,036 --> 00:14:01,836 Speaker 2: be like, no, I don't want to clean up those legos. 273 00:14:01,876 --> 00:14:03,996 Speaker 2: I want to keep playing with the legos. But clearly 274 00:14:04,076 --> 00:14:06,196 Speaker 2: I was in my mind saying clean up the legos. 275 00:14:06,556 --> 00:14:09,556 Speaker 2: And this is the micro example of so much of 276 00:14:09,556 --> 00:14:12,756 Speaker 2: what happens is we think we've been clear what we 277 00:14:12,836 --> 00:14:15,476 Speaker 2: want them to do. They feel nagged, so their TPJ 278 00:14:15,716 --> 00:14:18,116 Speaker 2: is shut off. They're not giving us a charitable interpretation, 279 00:14:18,636 --> 00:14:21,836 Speaker 2: and then we're more angry at them for rejecting us 280 00:14:22,156 --> 00:14:24,876 Speaker 2: and for disobeying us, and then the kids like, why 281 00:14:24,916 --> 00:14:28,116 Speaker 2: is this lunatic yelling at me? And so there's got 282 00:14:28,156 --> 00:14:31,356 Speaker 2: to be an alternative communication strategy that's not nagging, that 283 00:14:31,436 --> 00:14:34,756 Speaker 2: can instead enliven the prefrontal cortex and get them to 284 00:14:34,796 --> 00:14:37,356 Speaker 2: think about how they can change and behave differently. 285 00:14:37,636 --> 00:14:39,516 Speaker 1: It seems like there's two problems with it. One is 286 00:14:39,556 --> 00:14:41,956 Speaker 1: that they're kind of not getting necessarily what we want 287 00:14:41,996 --> 00:14:44,076 Speaker 1: them to do, but it seems like they are reading 288 00:14:44,076 --> 00:14:46,556 Speaker 1: between the lines in terms of something else. There's another 289 00:14:46,676 --> 00:14:48,716 Speaker 1: unsaid part of the nagging that really hurts them. 290 00:14:48,876 --> 00:14:52,196 Speaker 2: So what's that. The other unsaid part is that I, 291 00:14:52,316 --> 00:14:55,156 Speaker 2: the adult, think you're incompetent and that's why I'm telling 292 00:14:55,156 --> 00:14:57,916 Speaker 2: you something so obvious, and or that's why I'm trying 293 00:14:57,916 --> 00:15:00,516 Speaker 2: to control what feels like a personal choice to you. 294 00:15:01,156 --> 00:15:03,716 Speaker 2: When a mom says don't forget your coat, in our 295 00:15:03,756 --> 00:15:06,796 Speaker 2: heart of hearts, we're saying I love you so dearly 296 00:15:07,036 --> 00:15:10,076 Speaker 2: that I want you to not die of ypothermia. And 297 00:15:10,156 --> 00:15:12,596 Speaker 2: what the child hears is my mom thinks I'm so 298 00:15:12,676 --> 00:15:15,076 Speaker 2: incompetent that I can't even remember to bring a coat 299 00:15:15,596 --> 00:15:19,316 Speaker 2: or something like that. And because of that, you need 300 00:15:19,356 --> 00:15:22,076 Speaker 2: to be way more transparent about your intentions than you 301 00:15:22,116 --> 00:15:24,916 Speaker 2: think you need to be. You can't just leave the 302 00:15:24,996 --> 00:15:29,356 Speaker 2: unset part unsaid because young people are in this precarious 303 00:15:29,396 --> 00:15:32,556 Speaker 2: disparity of status relative to us, and they're likely to 304 00:15:32,596 --> 00:15:34,636 Speaker 2: read between the lines in a negative way because they're 305 00:15:34,756 --> 00:15:37,196 Speaker 2: used to the nagging and the yelling, telling and shaming 306 00:15:37,236 --> 00:15:40,596 Speaker 2: and blaming. That's their default, and they'll assume that new 307 00:15:40,596 --> 00:15:44,196 Speaker 2: communication is get more of that, unless we're transparent that 308 00:15:44,236 --> 00:15:45,036 Speaker 2: it's something different. 309 00:15:45,156 --> 00:15:46,876 Speaker 1: And this gets the idea that you've talked about of 310 00:15:46,916 --> 00:15:49,196 Speaker 1: being a warm demander. How do you define a warm 311 00:15:49,236 --> 00:15:51,276 Speaker 1: demander and how does it play into exactly the kind 312 00:15:51,316 --> 00:15:52,796 Speaker 1: of solution you're just mentioning. 313 00:15:53,276 --> 00:15:55,956 Speaker 2: Yeah, warm demander and I also call it a mentor 314 00:15:55,996 --> 00:15:58,436 Speaker 2: mindset in my book. But warm demand is a nice 315 00:15:58,476 --> 00:16:02,356 Speaker 2: frame because you're demanding, so you're tough, but you're also 316 00:16:02,596 --> 00:16:06,796 Speaker 2: caring and warm. Actually, interestingly, that term came out of 317 00:16:07,316 --> 00:16:11,756 Speaker 2: studies of black educator in predominantly black classrooms in Atlanta 318 00:16:11,796 --> 00:16:14,196 Speaker 2: and like the late nineties, early two thousands, and you 319 00:16:14,316 --> 00:16:17,716 Speaker 2: kind of had like a grandma type teacher who was 320 00:16:17,876 --> 00:16:21,596 Speaker 2: unrelentingly demanding in her standards and didn't put up with 321 00:16:21,596 --> 00:16:25,156 Speaker 2: any nonsense, but no kid questioned whether she loved them. 322 00:16:25,596 --> 00:16:27,756 Speaker 2: Members of any group can have this kind of relationship, 323 00:16:27,876 --> 00:16:30,836 Speaker 2: And I call it a mentor mindset because it's your 324 00:16:30,916 --> 00:16:34,076 Speaker 2: approach is to be of course tough, demanding and critical 325 00:16:34,396 --> 00:16:36,916 Speaker 2: so that the young person can make wise your choices, 326 00:16:36,956 --> 00:16:39,676 Speaker 2: grow and prove, etc. Well at the same time providing 327 00:16:39,796 --> 00:16:43,076 Speaker 2: enough support so that way they can meet those higher standards. 328 00:16:43,276 --> 00:16:45,636 Speaker 2: And I do want to be clear, for a long time, 329 00:16:46,196 --> 00:16:50,956 Speaker 2: people couldn't distinguish between these warm, demanding slash mental mindset 330 00:16:51,036 --> 00:16:54,956 Speaker 2: leaders and the authoritarian ones because they're like these kids 331 00:16:54,956 --> 00:16:57,356 Speaker 2: are crying all the time, Like, if the kids crying, 332 00:16:57,356 --> 00:17:00,116 Speaker 2: it's clearly bad parenting. And it turns out in a 333 00:17:00,276 --> 00:17:03,036 Speaker 2: good home, kids cry all the time, but they're not 334 00:17:03,076 --> 00:17:05,356 Speaker 2: crying because the parents are yelling at them and shaming them. 335 00:17:05,356 --> 00:17:08,036 Speaker 2: They're crying just because the standard is like inconsistent with 336 00:17:08,036 --> 00:17:10,156 Speaker 2: what they want. I don't really want to be doing 337 00:17:10,596 --> 00:17:13,476 Speaker 2: the important good thing. But they do move on and 338 00:17:13,516 --> 00:17:15,396 Speaker 2: they figure out how to self regulate in a way 339 00:17:15,396 --> 00:17:18,316 Speaker 2: that in an authoritarian home all you get is just 340 00:17:18,396 --> 00:17:21,556 Speaker 2: you have to bend your will to the parent and 341 00:17:21,596 --> 00:17:23,116 Speaker 2: you have no agency in autonomy. 342 00:17:23,196 --> 00:17:24,836 Speaker 1: And it seems like sort of paying attention to this 343 00:17:24,916 --> 00:17:27,676 Speaker 1: agency and autonomy is really kind of giving the kid 344 00:17:27,716 --> 00:17:30,156 Speaker 1: a sense that you kind of are feeling some compassion 345 00:17:30,276 --> 00:17:32,796 Speaker 1: for the situation that they're in. You're kind of honoring 346 00:17:32,836 --> 00:17:35,516 Speaker 1: their status as maybe an adolescent or a ten to 347 00:17:35,516 --> 00:17:37,516 Speaker 1: twenty five year old that's kind of figuring out their 348 00:17:37,516 --> 00:17:39,436 Speaker 1: way in life. But one way we need to do 349 00:17:39,476 --> 00:17:43,996 Speaker 1: this is to honors kids' status by not telling them stuff, 350 00:17:44,036 --> 00:17:46,676 Speaker 1: maybe not grow explaining. You need to show what you 351 00:17:46,716 --> 00:17:48,836 Speaker 1: want to understand. What are some good tips that parents 352 00:17:48,836 --> 00:17:50,036 Speaker 1: can use to do that better. 353 00:17:50,516 --> 00:17:52,676 Speaker 2: There's this wonderful parenting coach that I write about in 354 00:17:52,716 --> 00:17:55,436 Speaker 2: my book named Loraina Sidella, and she echoes something that 355 00:17:55,436 --> 00:17:57,596 Speaker 2: has shown up a lot in the different research literatures, 356 00:17:57,836 --> 00:18:00,836 Speaker 2: and it's this idea of questioning is often more powerful 357 00:18:00,876 --> 00:18:03,396 Speaker 2: than telling. Before I explain it, I do want to 358 00:18:03,436 --> 00:18:06,916 Speaker 2: acknowledge that most normal parents think this is crazy advice 359 00:18:07,076 --> 00:18:10,076 Speaker 2: because when like the macaroni burning on the stove, and 360 00:18:10,116 --> 00:18:12,076 Speaker 2: the repairman's at the door, and you're late for soccer 361 00:18:12,116 --> 00:18:15,036 Speaker 2: practice and like everything's going wrong, that doesn't feel like 362 00:18:15,076 --> 00:18:18,236 Speaker 2: the time to have a Socratic dialogue, right, And I 363 00:18:18,316 --> 00:18:22,396 Speaker 2: get it, But if you don't treat every single crisis 364 00:18:22,876 --> 00:18:25,836 Speaker 2: as a chance to build a skill, then you've missed 365 00:18:25,836 --> 00:18:28,116 Speaker 2: out on tons and tons of opportunities for the kid 366 00:18:28,196 --> 00:18:30,716 Speaker 2: to learn to proactively manage the conflicts that they have, 367 00:18:31,156 --> 00:18:33,876 Speaker 2: whether it's their internal conflicts, their emotions, or conflicts with 368 00:18:33,916 --> 00:18:37,436 Speaker 2: other adults. So so Lorena has this never waste a 369 00:18:37,476 --> 00:18:40,796 Speaker 2: crisis mentality that I've tried to live that even if 370 00:18:40,796 --> 00:18:42,436 Speaker 2: it's like I'm trying to get three kids out the 371 00:18:42,476 --> 00:18:44,916 Speaker 2: door in the morning so I'm not late for an appointment, 372 00:18:45,276 --> 00:18:47,516 Speaker 2: I've had to learn to stop and pause and be 373 00:18:47,676 --> 00:18:51,236 Speaker 2: curious about why. From their perspective, it's very hard for 374 00:18:51,316 --> 00:18:52,916 Speaker 2: them to get in the car and not wear a 375 00:18:52,916 --> 00:18:54,116 Speaker 2: spider Man costing. 376 00:18:53,956 --> 00:18:56,836 Speaker 1: Which bracketed is why we were fifteen minutes late to 377 00:18:57,116 --> 00:18:57,916 Speaker 1: at our conversation. 378 00:18:57,996 --> 00:19:02,636 Speaker 2: Today, I get photographic evidence to prove this. So the 379 00:19:02,716 --> 00:19:04,996 Speaker 2: idea is ask questions. Okay, so what kind of questions? 380 00:19:05,156 --> 00:19:07,596 Speaker 2: Now there's bad questions. A bad question would be what 381 00:19:07,676 --> 00:19:09,916 Speaker 2: are you thinking? Or why are you ruining my life? 382 00:19:10,476 --> 00:19:12,356 Speaker 2: Those would not be good questions to ask a kid. 383 00:19:12,596 --> 00:19:15,556 Speaker 2: Better questions are things like, you seom really upset? Tell 384 00:19:15,596 --> 00:19:17,836 Speaker 2: me what does it mean to you when I'm saying 385 00:19:17,876 --> 00:19:19,956 Speaker 2: no to the toy? Or what does it mean to 386 00:19:19,956 --> 00:19:22,156 Speaker 2: you when I said this to you? And then they 387 00:19:22,236 --> 00:19:24,476 Speaker 2: usually say something outrageous like it means you don't love me, 388 00:19:24,516 --> 00:19:26,396 Speaker 2: it means you're a bad parent, it means you hate me, 389 00:19:26,676 --> 00:19:28,916 Speaker 2: or I'm a bad kid. The next question is like 390 00:19:28,956 --> 00:19:32,196 Speaker 2: what else could it mean? And sometimes they'll say a 391 00:19:32,196 --> 00:19:35,076 Speaker 2: couple other negative things like this will never get better, 392 00:19:35,516 --> 00:19:37,676 Speaker 2: you know, going to be sad forever. And then the 393 00:19:37,716 --> 00:19:40,436 Speaker 2: next question is, okay, if it meant that, would that 394 00:19:40,516 --> 00:19:43,796 Speaker 2: serve your purposes? Like does that's meet your goals? And 395 00:19:43,836 --> 00:19:45,956 Speaker 2: that's a surprising question for a lot of kids, and 396 00:19:45,996 --> 00:19:49,076 Speaker 2: they're like, huh, no, it doesn't serve my goals to 397 00:19:49,116 --> 00:19:51,596 Speaker 2: think my mom hates me, and then she's a bad parent. 398 00:19:51,916 --> 00:19:54,156 Speaker 2: It's like, all right, well, then what else could it mean? 399 00:19:54,596 --> 00:19:57,836 Speaker 2: And then eventually you can involve them in generating a 400 00:19:57,916 --> 00:20:02,196 Speaker 2: different and better appraisal of the conflict, and then once 401 00:20:02,236 --> 00:20:04,956 Speaker 2: they have that better appraisal, then you can say things like, 402 00:20:05,156 --> 00:20:08,396 Speaker 2: all right, well, if this better thing was true, would 403 00:20:08,396 --> 00:20:11,196 Speaker 2: that meet your goals? And then often they're like, yeah, so. 404 00:20:11,436 --> 00:20:14,796 Speaker 2: Very brief example is conflict with my now eight year 405 00:20:14,836 --> 00:20:17,036 Speaker 2: old when he was six, We're leaving the park. I 406 00:20:17,236 --> 00:20:19,116 Speaker 2: played with him all day. He asked for a toy. 407 00:20:19,436 --> 00:20:21,916 Speaker 2: I was like, no, there's no toy, and he screamed 408 00:20:21,916 --> 00:20:23,636 Speaker 2: at the top of his lung publicly in front of 409 00:20:23,676 --> 00:20:26,476 Speaker 2: all the other parents, I want a toy. And then 410 00:20:26,596 --> 00:20:28,796 Speaker 2: I had to ask him, you know, how does it 411 00:20:28,836 --> 00:20:31,316 Speaker 2: make you feel that I'm saying no and just felt 412 00:20:31,396 --> 00:20:34,916 Speaker 2: ridiculous to say, of course, and then he said, yell 413 00:20:34,956 --> 00:20:36,556 Speaker 2: at the top of his lungs, You're the worst father. 414 00:20:36,836 --> 00:20:39,196 Speaker 2: And then I went through this question, doesn't serve your purposes? 415 00:20:39,396 --> 00:20:42,476 Speaker 2: That caught him off guard. No, it makes me feel sad. 416 00:20:42,756 --> 00:20:44,876 Speaker 2: What else could it be? And then he made up 417 00:20:44,876 --> 00:20:47,716 Speaker 2: something good, like it means my dad doesn't want us 418 00:20:47,716 --> 00:20:49,356 Speaker 2: to buy a toy that I'm going to throw away 419 00:20:49,476 --> 00:20:51,396 Speaker 2: and break, because then I'm going to be sad later. 420 00:20:51,716 --> 00:20:53,756 Speaker 2: And then if it's a plastic toy, there's going to 421 00:20:53,796 --> 00:20:55,636 Speaker 2: be more plastic in the landfill and that's going to 422 00:20:55,716 --> 00:20:58,516 Speaker 2: hurt the earth. And maybe my dad doesn't want to 423 00:20:58,516 --> 00:21:00,236 Speaker 2: destroy the earth. And I was like, how would that 424 00:21:00,276 --> 00:21:02,356 Speaker 2: make you feel if that was true? And he was like, well, 425 00:21:02,356 --> 00:21:03,956 Speaker 2: it made you feel like my dad cares about the 426 00:21:03,956 --> 00:21:05,836 Speaker 2: future of the environment and doesn't want me to grow 427 00:21:05,876 --> 00:21:08,116 Speaker 2: up in a trashkeep and also wants me to learn 428 00:21:08,116 --> 00:21:09,796 Speaker 2: how to be responsible. And I was like, would that 429 00:21:09,876 --> 00:21:11,756 Speaker 2: serve your purposes? He's like, yeah, it'd make me feel 430 00:21:11,756 --> 00:21:13,396 Speaker 2: like my dad loved me. I was like, can we 431 00:21:13,396 --> 00:21:15,516 Speaker 2: go with that? And he's like yeah, and then I 432 00:21:15,516 --> 00:21:15,836 Speaker 2: bought them. 433 00:21:15,836 --> 00:21:17,916 Speaker 1: I screen what's incredible is like, if we kind of 434 00:21:17,956 --> 00:21:20,356 Speaker 1: lead with curiosity not judgment, we do two things. One 435 00:21:20,396 --> 00:21:22,356 Speaker 1: is like, we learned that our kids are capable and 436 00:21:22,396 --> 00:21:24,956 Speaker 1: they are competent and coming up with these good interpretations 437 00:21:24,996 --> 00:21:27,396 Speaker 1: and things. But I think it also trains them to 438 00:21:27,436 --> 00:21:29,676 Speaker 1: get a little bit more curious about their own emotions 439 00:21:29,676 --> 00:21:31,716 Speaker 1: and think, well, my first impression of this situation might 440 00:21:31,756 --> 00:21:34,036 Speaker 1: look differently, or maybe my parent has a different intention. 441 00:21:34,076 --> 00:21:36,756 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like we're learning to renavigate their 442 00:21:36,796 --> 00:21:38,836 Speaker 1: feelings on this at the same time we're teaching them 443 00:21:38,996 --> 00:21:42,996 Speaker 1: to learn to navigate our new intentions on these things, too, right, 444 00:21:43,116 --> 00:21:43,476 Speaker 1: I mean, the. 445 00:21:44,036 --> 00:21:45,836 Speaker 2: Big thing is it's such a pain as a parent 446 00:21:45,876 --> 00:21:48,316 Speaker 2: when your kids fight two rooms over and you have 447 00:21:48,356 --> 00:21:50,476 Speaker 2: to leave whatever you're doing and go over there and say, 448 00:21:50,476 --> 00:21:52,316 Speaker 2: how many times have I told you guys, don't be 449 00:21:52,396 --> 00:21:55,196 Speaker 2: mean and to your brother stop fighting? We're always the 450 00:21:55,196 --> 00:21:58,036 Speaker 2: referee in that situation. We are the only one doing 451 00:21:58,036 --> 00:22:00,556 Speaker 2: the problem solving, And so of course they don't learn. Yeah, 452 00:22:00,556 --> 00:22:02,516 Speaker 2: it's because we never asked them to even try to 453 00:22:02,556 --> 00:22:04,956 Speaker 2: do it. If they've never had to piece it together 454 00:22:05,036 --> 00:22:07,356 Speaker 2: in their minds, and if the only time we ask 455 00:22:07,476 --> 00:22:10,076 Speaker 2: questions is when we're trying to make them look like 456 00:22:10,476 --> 00:22:12,996 Speaker 2: haven't I told you this before? The only answer is yes. 457 00:22:13,076 --> 00:22:15,796 Speaker 2: But the implication is we think they're dumb. So if 458 00:22:15,796 --> 00:22:17,956 Speaker 2: that's all we've ever done, then of course we're gonna 459 00:22:17,956 --> 00:22:20,116 Speaker 2: have to keep stepping in as the referee. But if 460 00:22:20,116 --> 00:22:22,796 Speaker 2: we're just tired of doing that, you have to start 461 00:22:22,836 --> 00:22:25,356 Speaker 2: giving them the coach in the head that they can 462 00:22:25,396 --> 00:22:27,956 Speaker 2: carry with them. And I'll tell you what I've seen 463 00:22:28,356 --> 00:22:31,396 Speaker 2: Lorna sidell this parenting coach. I've seen families she's worked with, 464 00:22:31,796 --> 00:22:34,356 Speaker 2: and they do this questioning routine a lot with their kids. 465 00:22:34,356 --> 00:22:38,116 Speaker 2: It's tedious, but eventually the kids know the questions and 466 00:22:38,156 --> 00:22:40,676 Speaker 2: so she can just yell from across the room, what 467 00:22:40,796 --> 00:22:43,076 Speaker 2: did it mean when your sister did that? And then 468 00:22:43,116 --> 00:22:45,796 Speaker 2: they do the whole thing in their head and they're like, Okay, fine, mom, 469 00:22:45,836 --> 00:22:47,836 Speaker 2: I know my sister loves me. We won't fight anymore. 470 00:22:48,116 --> 00:22:50,276 Speaker 2: And so if you want to have the kind of 471 00:22:50,316 --> 00:22:53,316 Speaker 2: house not with no fighting or no crying, but where 472 00:22:53,876 --> 00:22:56,516 Speaker 2: conflicts get resolved in a way where you end up 473 00:22:56,556 --> 00:22:59,396 Speaker 2: feeling excited for them to go off into the world 474 00:22:59,756 --> 00:23:01,436 Speaker 2: and to deal with conflict, and they're going to be 475 00:23:01,516 --> 00:23:03,756 Speaker 2: prepared to live with someone and not get in fights 476 00:23:03,756 --> 00:23:05,596 Speaker 2: all the time and not be alone. You know, in 477 00:23:05,636 --> 00:23:08,036 Speaker 2: their twenties and thirties, these are the times right now 478 00:23:08,036 --> 00:23:10,076 Speaker 2: to teach those lessons. And it's a little bit of 479 00:23:10,116 --> 00:23:11,916 Speaker 2: extra time, but you save yourself a house. 480 00:23:12,036 --> 00:23:14,676 Speaker 1: In the long run, it might seem silly to ask 481 00:23:14,676 --> 00:23:17,316 Speaker 1: a six year old whether something serves their purpose, but 482 00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:20,076 Speaker 1: that's an important first step to helping that child develop 483 00:23:20,076 --> 00:23:24,516 Speaker 1: a key emotional skill that psychologists call cognitive reappraisal. If 484 00:23:24,556 --> 00:23:27,076 Speaker 1: you can reframe your thoughts about a situation, you can 485 00:23:27,076 --> 00:23:30,276 Speaker 1: shift your feelings too, and helping kids practice this skill 486 00:23:30,356 --> 00:23:33,196 Speaker 1: during small moments of crisis will allow them to learn 487 00:23:33,236 --> 00:23:35,636 Speaker 1: to handle the bigger challenges that will come later on. 488 00:23:36,436 --> 00:23:38,996 Speaker 1: After the break, we'll talk with David about other ways 489 00:23:39,036 --> 00:23:42,876 Speaker 1: parents can guide kids towards happier behaviors with a mentor mindset, 490 00:23:43,076 --> 00:23:45,796 Speaker 1: from coaching your middle school or through a math class meltdown, 491 00:23:46,036 --> 00:23:48,756 Speaker 1: to helping your teenager make better choices after a night 492 00:23:48,796 --> 00:23:51,476 Speaker 1: of bad decisions. The Happiness Lab will be back in 493 00:23:51,516 --> 00:24:03,196 Speaker 1: a moment. Psychologist David Yeger has devoted his career to 494 00:24:03,316 --> 00:24:05,916 Speaker 1: understanding why young people think and behave the way they do, 495 00:24:06,236 --> 00:24:08,716 Speaker 1: and how parents and mentors can help guide kids towards 496 00:24:08,756 --> 00:24:11,676 Speaker 1: becoming their best selves. David has found that many of 497 00:24:11,716 --> 00:24:15,836 Speaker 1: the interventions adults regularly use aren't very effective, in part 498 00:24:15,996 --> 00:24:20,116 Speaker 1: because they're interventions. In fact, David thinks most caregivers need 499 00:24:20,156 --> 00:24:24,396 Speaker 1: to intervene way less than they think. Take homework for example. 500 00:24:24,276 --> 00:24:26,276 Speaker 2: So my daughter is algebra two and she came home 501 00:24:26,316 --> 00:24:28,196 Speaker 2: and they were doing some kind of factoring. I think 502 00:24:28,236 --> 00:24:31,716 Speaker 2: it's like finding the square. And my temptation was to 503 00:24:31,756 --> 00:24:34,436 Speaker 2: go and like figure out the trick and be like, okay, 504 00:24:34,556 --> 00:24:37,356 Speaker 2: just do this. But I'd seen these great tutors in 505 00:24:37,396 --> 00:24:39,796 Speaker 2: these great mentors, and I was like, all right, well, 506 00:24:40,036 --> 00:24:42,036 Speaker 2: the first thing they almost always do is ask what 507 00:24:42,076 --> 00:24:43,636 Speaker 2: if you tried so far, and why do you think 508 00:24:43,676 --> 00:24:46,956 Speaker 2: it's not working? Then immediately you know what the kid knows. 509 00:24:47,356 --> 00:24:50,876 Speaker 2: And it's hard to ask that because if they're frustrated 510 00:24:50,956 --> 00:24:53,436 Speaker 2: and they're like banging their head against the wall, your 511 00:24:53,476 --> 00:24:56,196 Speaker 2: temptation is to prevent them from having to revisit those 512 00:24:56,196 --> 00:24:59,636 Speaker 2: times where they weren't getting it. And so that's what 513 00:24:59,676 --> 00:25:01,156 Speaker 2: I did with Scarlett. I was like, all right, show 514 00:25:01,156 --> 00:25:03,076 Speaker 2: me what your teacher told you so far. And then 515 00:25:03,076 --> 00:25:05,036 Speaker 2: she said stuff that I completely forgot because I last 516 00:25:05,116 --> 00:25:08,036 Speaker 2: learned it when I was fourteen. And then I was like, well, 517 00:25:08,276 --> 00:25:10,036 Speaker 2: I see you're stuck here, Well what happened if you 518 00:25:10,036 --> 00:25:13,196 Speaker 2: do that? Then she explained, well, this won't weren't because 519 00:25:13,196 --> 00:25:15,276 Speaker 2: of that, and then I could just be there as 520 00:25:15,316 --> 00:25:18,316 Speaker 2: a guide and I just was curious. I asked her 521 00:25:18,716 --> 00:25:21,516 Speaker 2: to basically tinker with it, but she was always the agent. 522 00:25:21,636 --> 00:25:25,116 Speaker 2: She was always doing the problem solving. And then all 523 00:25:25,156 --> 00:25:27,236 Speaker 2: of a sudden she remembered something the teacher had said 524 00:25:27,236 --> 00:25:29,196 Speaker 2: two weeks before, and then she's like, oh, this is 525 00:25:29,196 --> 00:25:31,676 Speaker 2: where I'm supposed to do it. Now I understand the pattern. 526 00:25:32,116 --> 00:25:35,196 Speaker 2: So I didn't tell her anything about algebra two. I 527 00:25:35,196 --> 00:25:38,676 Speaker 2: didn't actually go read the textbook. I just worked with her. Now. 528 00:25:38,916 --> 00:25:41,956 Speaker 2: The reason why this is important is because when we 529 00:25:42,076 --> 00:25:45,836 Speaker 2: swoop in and say, okay, here's how you factor the problem, 530 00:25:45,956 --> 00:25:48,476 Speaker 2: here's how you find the square. Just do this, now 531 00:25:48,716 --> 00:25:53,036 Speaker 2: try it, then it makes them feel like we think 532 00:25:53,196 --> 00:25:56,516 Speaker 2: that they can't figure it out and that they are incompetent, 533 00:25:56,796 --> 00:25:58,996 Speaker 2: which is not what you want because there there are 534 00:25:59,036 --> 00:26:01,796 Speaker 2: a thousand lessons like that throughout the school year in 535 00:26:01,956 --> 00:26:04,716 Speaker 2: just one subject, and then you've got seven subjects. So 536 00:26:05,276 --> 00:26:07,556 Speaker 2: you want them to have the skill of being able 537 00:26:07,596 --> 00:26:10,316 Speaker 2: to figure it out. But what's is when they're totally 538 00:26:10,316 --> 00:26:12,156 Speaker 2: on their own and they feel overwhelmed and they're like, 539 00:26:12,356 --> 00:26:16,796 Speaker 2: I can't do this. So weirdly, non informative questions where 540 00:26:16,796 --> 00:26:20,476 Speaker 2: you're not really telling them answers, makes them feel supportive 541 00:26:20,636 --> 00:26:24,436 Speaker 2: enough to go troubleshoot. It makes them feel like if 542 00:26:24,436 --> 00:26:27,676 Speaker 2: they're stuck, they could ask you. But ultimately they own 543 00:26:27,876 --> 00:26:30,556 Speaker 2: the thinking at the end. And Mark Lepper in the 544 00:26:30,636 --> 00:26:33,596 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety is, the famous social psychologist, did this study 545 00:26:33,596 --> 00:26:35,956 Speaker 2: of the greatest tutors in the Bay Area, and he 546 00:26:35,996 --> 00:26:38,196 Speaker 2: found that ninety percent, roughly of what they said was 547 00:26:38,236 --> 00:26:41,556 Speaker 2: a question, it was not. They were great at explaining physics. 548 00:26:41,756 --> 00:26:43,716 Speaker 2: And I think that lesson still holds today. 549 00:26:43,916 --> 00:26:46,476 Speaker 1: I think it's so important because as an adult, I 550 00:26:46,556 --> 00:26:48,516 Speaker 1: know what it feels like when somebody tells me what 551 00:26:48,676 --> 00:26:50,716 Speaker 1: to do. Right, it's kind of demeaning, and I get 552 00:26:50,756 --> 00:26:52,836 Speaker 1: more pissed off and I get more frustrated. But I 553 00:26:52,836 --> 00:26:55,316 Speaker 1: think we forget that's what's happening with our kids. We 554 00:26:55,396 --> 00:26:57,276 Speaker 1: kind of tell them what to do. I think another 555 00:26:57,276 --> 00:26:59,236 Speaker 1: thing about the questions, and you just illustrated this in 556 00:26:59,276 --> 00:27:02,076 Speaker 1: your algebra story, is that sometimes our kids have answers 557 00:27:02,116 --> 00:27:03,796 Speaker 1: that we don't expect. Right when you asked her, well, 558 00:27:03,836 --> 00:27:06,036 Speaker 1: what did she already know? She actually had some techniques 559 00:27:06,036 --> 00:27:07,716 Speaker 1: that like you're like, oh yeah, I forgot about that, 560 00:27:07,916 --> 00:27:09,836 Speaker 1: And so there are these cases is where our kids 561 00:27:10,316 --> 00:27:12,556 Speaker 1: kind of know stuff that we don't know, or at 562 00:27:12,596 --> 00:27:14,596 Speaker 1: least know things about the situation that we might not 563 00:27:14,756 --> 00:27:17,116 Speaker 1: know that unless we get curious and ask questions, we'd 564 00:27:17,156 --> 00:27:19,596 Speaker 1: never see that, and that affects our ability to help 565 00:27:19,636 --> 00:27:20,556 Speaker 1: them problem solve. 566 00:27:21,076 --> 00:27:23,076 Speaker 2: And I think a big puzzle I had going into 567 00:27:23,276 --> 00:27:25,916 Speaker 2: my book ten to twenty five was why doesn't everybody 568 00:27:25,956 --> 00:27:27,996 Speaker 2: do this? I mean, there's the time issue. You're like, 569 00:27:27,996 --> 00:27:30,156 Speaker 2: you're in a hurry, but like, aside from that, why 570 00:27:30,156 --> 00:27:32,236 Speaker 2: does everybody do it? And I think it goes back 571 00:27:32,236 --> 00:27:35,556 Speaker 2: to the neurobiological and confidence model. If you think that 572 00:27:35,636 --> 00:27:39,036 Speaker 2: the reason why your kid is stuck is because when 573 00:27:39,036 --> 00:27:41,396 Speaker 2: it was explained very clearly by the teacher, the kid 574 00:27:41,476 --> 00:27:44,716 Speaker 2: was screwing around and goofing off and not paying attention, 575 00:27:45,196 --> 00:27:46,996 Speaker 2: and then they came home and they weren't being a 576 00:27:47,036 --> 00:27:50,436 Speaker 2: serious student and they don't care about their future. Then 577 00:27:50,596 --> 00:27:53,676 Speaker 2: you're not curious why they're stuck on factoring the trinomial. 578 00:27:53,796 --> 00:27:56,396 Speaker 2: You're like, this is a character issue. Yeah, this is 579 00:27:56,436 --> 00:27:59,196 Speaker 2: not an intellectual issue. And so it feels like we 580 00:27:59,276 --> 00:28:02,276 Speaker 2: need to have a response to the character issue by 581 00:28:02,436 --> 00:28:04,596 Speaker 2: giving them a lecture about how they should have paid attention. 582 00:28:04,996 --> 00:28:07,316 Speaker 2: You need to be responsible, you need to take good notes, 583 00:28:07,356 --> 00:28:09,996 Speaker 2: you should go review. Your teacher already gave this to you. 584 00:28:10,436 --> 00:28:12,396 Speaker 2: And that sounds harsh, but like in our studies, fifty 585 00:28:12,436 --> 00:28:15,396 Speaker 2: percent of American teachers take that approach. Yeah, they take 586 00:28:15,436 --> 00:28:19,156 Speaker 2: a shame and blame approach to a mistake, not collaborative troubleshooting. 587 00:28:19,516 --> 00:28:21,836 Speaker 2: And I think that's a real challenge because parents want 588 00:28:21,876 --> 00:28:24,756 Speaker 2: to prepare their kids for a tough future, like a 589 00:28:24,836 --> 00:28:28,596 Speaker 2: complex world where everyone's unforgiving. And the reality is if 590 00:28:28,636 --> 00:28:30,756 Speaker 2: you just presume most of the time that kids are 591 00:28:30,796 --> 00:28:33,196 Speaker 2: acting in good faith, and if you're seeing all this 592 00:28:33,316 --> 00:28:38,036 Speaker 2: other like reluctance behavior, deviance behavior, sometimes that's a cover 593 00:28:38,196 --> 00:28:40,596 Speaker 2: for the underlying thing, which is it's just actually hard 594 00:28:40,596 --> 00:28:43,516 Speaker 2: work and they haven't figured it out. So you always 595 00:28:43,596 --> 00:28:45,636 Speaker 2: treat it like you're a serious student who wants to 596 00:28:45,676 --> 00:28:47,996 Speaker 2: do it right, and you're gonna get it and I'm 597 00:28:48,036 --> 00:28:50,916 Speaker 2: gonna ask you questions just so I understand. Then they 598 00:28:50,956 --> 00:28:53,916 Speaker 2: feel respected and valued, and sometimes that safety is what 599 00:28:53,956 --> 00:28:56,476 Speaker 2: they need to get out of their heads and stop 600 00:28:56,516 --> 00:28:59,756 Speaker 2: the panic and then start embracing the challenge. 601 00:29:00,036 --> 00:29:02,756 Speaker 1: And this kind of collaborative troubleshooting is true not just 602 00:29:02,836 --> 00:29:05,676 Speaker 1: in the academic domain, but maybe if other domains where 603 00:29:05,676 --> 00:29:08,916 Speaker 1: they like really screw up, right, how can collaborative troubleshooting 604 00:29:08,956 --> 00:29:11,036 Speaker 1: how But a case where your kid has kind of 605 00:29:11,036 --> 00:29:12,836 Speaker 1: messed up, maybe in the social domain or even in 606 00:29:12,876 --> 00:29:13,596 Speaker 1: the moral domain. 607 00:29:14,156 --> 00:29:16,436 Speaker 2: I heard from a ton of parents, far more than 608 00:29:16,436 --> 00:29:18,196 Speaker 2: I even wrote about in the book. But I wrote 609 00:29:18,196 --> 00:29:20,676 Speaker 2: about a couple where their kids either snuck to a 610 00:29:20,716 --> 00:29:23,196 Speaker 2: party or went to a party but snuck booze to 611 00:29:23,236 --> 00:29:26,196 Speaker 2: the party and they came home drunk. And the best 612 00:29:26,236 --> 00:29:28,476 Speaker 2: parents I talked to were like, I've been waiting for 613 00:29:28,516 --> 00:29:30,836 Speaker 2: this for years. This is the best moment of my 614 00:29:30,876 --> 00:29:33,436 Speaker 2: parenting life. I was like, really, I'm just so worried 615 00:29:33,436 --> 00:29:36,236 Speaker 2: about that moment and that no, because we got to 616 00:29:36,276 --> 00:29:39,556 Speaker 2: be honest and the wrong approach, and they told me 617 00:29:40,316 --> 00:29:44,916 Speaker 2: was the yell, tell, blame, shame, the enforcer, authoritarian kind 618 00:29:44,956 --> 00:29:49,076 Speaker 2: of approach, And to be honest, a lot of that approach, 619 00:29:49,116 --> 00:29:52,636 Speaker 2: the yelling and telling comes from our insecurity as parents 620 00:29:52,996 --> 00:29:55,716 Speaker 2: that we feel like, how could I possibly be the 621 00:29:55,836 --> 00:29:58,516 Speaker 2: kind of parent where kids have so little respect for 622 00:29:58,596 --> 00:30:01,276 Speaker 2: my house rules that they would break this So blatantly. 623 00:30:01,836 --> 00:30:04,956 Speaker 2: It's more like we're insulted and offended more than it 624 00:30:05,036 --> 00:30:07,836 Speaker 2: is are concerned with their actual safety. And so the 625 00:30:07,916 --> 00:30:11,916 Speaker 2: collaborative troubleshooting parent and didn't take that offensive approach. Instead, 626 00:30:12,316 --> 00:30:15,316 Speaker 2: they were legitimately curious about how the kid ended up 627 00:30:15,636 --> 00:30:18,476 Speaker 2: having drunk too much, or in the case of the 628 00:30:18,516 --> 00:30:21,116 Speaker 2: speaking out, why did they feel like that was the 629 00:30:21,116 --> 00:30:23,516 Speaker 2: most important thing in the world and more important than 630 00:30:23,596 --> 00:30:27,636 Speaker 2: maintaining the family rules. And usually it went back to 631 00:30:27,676 --> 00:30:31,076 Speaker 2: status and respect. So in the case of a kid 632 00:30:31,116 --> 00:30:34,276 Speaker 2: who snuck out, the kid was just a hypersocial kid 633 00:30:34,716 --> 00:30:38,436 Speaker 2: and was worried that everyone would have this epic night 634 00:30:39,036 --> 00:30:42,956 Speaker 2: and there'd be some memory like they found it golf 635 00:30:42,996 --> 00:30:44,956 Speaker 2: card and got to do donuts on the golf course, 636 00:30:45,276 --> 00:30:48,676 Speaker 2: or they ran away from the cops, or something that 637 00:30:48,716 --> 00:30:51,756 Speaker 2: they would never forget and would talk about until their 638 00:30:51,836 --> 00:30:54,236 Speaker 2: high school reunion or to their funeral. Think about it, like, 639 00:30:54,316 --> 00:30:56,716 Speaker 2: I definitely have stories of hour and a half events 640 00:30:56,876 --> 00:30:59,036 Speaker 2: in high school, Like I f one hundred percent vividly 641 00:30:59,076 --> 00:31:01,276 Speaker 2: remember some of the most fun times, and I remember 642 00:31:01,316 --> 00:31:01,756 Speaker 2: who was there. 643 00:31:01,796 --> 00:31:03,596 Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to miss out on that, right. There's 644 00:31:03,636 --> 00:31:04,956 Speaker 1: a cost benefit, Yep. 645 00:31:04,876 --> 00:31:06,756 Speaker 2: You don't want to be the person who missed out 646 00:31:06,796 --> 00:31:10,196 Speaker 2: on this epic unforgettable night. So his mom started with 647 00:31:10,316 --> 00:31:12,876 Speaker 2: us like, look, I know you're social. Let's find other 648 00:31:12,916 --> 00:31:15,756 Speaker 2: ways for you to have epic unforgettable knights that don't 649 00:31:15,756 --> 00:31:19,236 Speaker 2: involve lying and cheating. But it wasn't don't be social. 650 00:31:19,396 --> 00:31:19,516 Speaker 1: Right. 651 00:31:20,036 --> 00:31:23,076 Speaker 2: In the drinking case, there was one kid who normally 652 00:31:23,076 --> 00:31:25,676 Speaker 2: would just sneak like two wine coolers in his pockets, 653 00:31:25,676 --> 00:31:28,116 Speaker 2: but this one day brought it backpack because he was 654 00:31:28,156 --> 00:31:30,036 Speaker 2: trying to be a good friend to a lot of 655 00:31:30,076 --> 00:31:32,756 Speaker 2: other people who asked for boots, and then he ended 656 00:31:32,836 --> 00:31:34,556 Speaker 2: up drinking up most of it and so he got 657 00:31:34,596 --> 00:31:37,356 Speaker 2: super drunk. But again it came from this desire to 658 00:31:37,396 --> 00:31:40,796 Speaker 2: be social to help others, And so the punishment was 659 00:31:41,156 --> 00:31:44,756 Speaker 2: to talk about his drinking and his plan every night 660 00:31:44,796 --> 00:31:47,276 Speaker 2: before he went out. And it was an agonizing forty 661 00:31:47,276 --> 00:31:50,196 Speaker 2: five minute conversation about his plan before he could go 662 00:31:50,236 --> 00:31:52,756 Speaker 2: to a party, and that was a worse punishment than grounding. 663 00:31:53,236 --> 00:31:56,076 Speaker 2: But in the end they started understanding his logic and 664 00:31:56,156 --> 00:31:59,076 Speaker 2: his plans and they could subtly suggest things. And when 665 00:31:59,076 --> 00:32:00,956 Speaker 2: that kid went to college, he didn't have any trouble 666 00:32:00,996 --> 00:32:04,076 Speaker 2: with alcohol and he had the skill, So it's a 667 00:32:04,236 --> 00:32:07,036 Speaker 2: kind of never waste a crisis situation and questioning really 668 00:32:07,076 --> 00:32:09,076 Speaker 2: helps to build that mental muscle in the kid. 669 00:32:09,356 --> 00:32:11,396 Speaker 1: I love these scenarios because they really show that you're 670 00:32:11,436 --> 00:32:13,636 Speaker 1: parenting for the future, right, Like in both of these cases, 671 00:32:13,676 --> 00:32:15,956 Speaker 1: you're talking not about how you solve for this incident, 672 00:32:15,996 --> 00:32:18,556 Speaker 1: but how you solve for future incidents, maybe incidents that 673 00:32:18,596 --> 00:32:20,076 Speaker 1: are going to happen when these kids go off to 674 00:32:20,116 --> 00:32:21,556 Speaker 1: college and you're not going to be there to kind 675 00:32:21,556 --> 00:32:23,636 Speaker 1: of see them out the door and that sort of thing. 676 00:32:24,156 --> 00:32:26,196 Speaker 1: Kind of curious how you brought this into your own life, 677 00:32:26,196 --> 00:32:29,036 Speaker 1: both collaborative troubleshooting and questions and all the stuff we've 678 00:32:29,076 --> 00:32:29,716 Speaker 1: been talking about. 679 00:32:30,196 --> 00:32:33,596 Speaker 2: I obsess over parenting for the future in specific moments 680 00:32:33,716 --> 00:32:36,956 Speaker 2: that I know because of my sociology friends and colleagues 681 00:32:37,196 --> 00:32:39,276 Speaker 2: set kids up for a lifetime. But I think there 682 00:32:39,316 --> 00:32:41,356 Speaker 2: are a lot of moments in our kids' lives. Trying 683 00:32:41,396 --> 00:32:44,276 Speaker 2: out for a certain sport or activity, definitely taking into 684 00:32:44,276 --> 00:32:47,236 Speaker 2: a class, like applying for a summer job. There are 685 00:32:47,236 --> 00:32:50,596 Speaker 2: these moments where they're going to be freaked out because 686 00:32:50,636 --> 00:32:53,516 Speaker 2: it does have a big impact on their future, or 687 00:32:53,716 --> 00:32:56,316 Speaker 2: they're not taking it seriously and they need to. And 688 00:32:56,436 --> 00:32:58,916 Speaker 2: those are moments where you do have to be tough 689 00:32:58,996 --> 00:33:03,596 Speaker 2: in demanding and unrelenting, but also supportive so that way 690 00:33:03,716 --> 00:33:06,196 Speaker 2: they see a reasonable path and their fears have to 691 00:33:06,236 --> 00:33:08,476 Speaker 2: be legitimate to you. You have to be legitimately curious 692 00:33:08,476 --> 00:33:10,916 Speaker 2: about why they're worried. But there, you know, there's lots 693 00:33:10,916 --> 00:33:12,996 Speaker 2: of crying in my house in those moments where it's like, 694 00:33:13,036 --> 00:33:15,356 Speaker 2: you need to do this thing. But what I will 695 00:33:15,436 --> 00:33:18,636 Speaker 2: focus on is like, how do I be honestly curious 696 00:33:18,756 --> 00:33:22,156 Speaker 2: why you're being reluctant and troubleshoot with you and find 697 00:33:22,156 --> 00:33:24,356 Speaker 2: a solution that works for you. I'm not going to 698 00:33:24,396 --> 00:33:26,676 Speaker 2: lower the standard, but it does matter to me that 699 00:33:26,716 --> 00:33:28,356 Speaker 2: you're on board and that it feels good for you. 700 00:33:29,196 --> 00:33:31,556 Speaker 1: So the next time you're struggling with your kid's behavior, 701 00:33:31,996 --> 00:33:34,716 Speaker 1: try to tap into what studies show is really motivating 702 00:33:35,196 --> 00:33:39,596 Speaker 1: that sense of mastery. Everyone wants to experience agency and independence, 703 00:33:39,756 --> 00:33:43,716 Speaker 1: regardless of their age. So remember that the old neurobiological 704 00:33:43,756 --> 00:33:46,996 Speaker 1: and competence model of childhood is out. The science shows 705 00:33:46,996 --> 00:33:50,036 Speaker 1: that what's in or respect and understanding? How can you 706 00:33:50,076 --> 00:33:53,676 Speaker 1: respect your kids better? Well, stop grow explaining and instead 707 00:33:53,796 --> 00:33:57,196 Speaker 1: get curious and ask questions. Guide your child toward the 708 00:33:57,196 --> 00:34:00,076 Speaker 1: habit of cognitive reappraisal so that they learn to manage 709 00:34:00,116 --> 00:34:03,076 Speaker 1: their difficult feelings as they get older. You can also 710 00:34:03,076 --> 00:34:05,876 Speaker 1: strive to be a warm demander, have high standards for 711 00:34:05,956 --> 00:34:09,796 Speaker 1: your child, but still be loving and supporting to understand 712 00:34:09,796 --> 00:34:13,796 Speaker 1: your child's perspective rather than yelling, telling, blaming, or shaming. 713 00:34:14,356 --> 00:34:17,916 Speaker 1: And finally, use those small moments of crises as opportunities 714 00:34:17,916 --> 00:34:21,916 Speaker 1: for collaborative troubleshooting. It may be a little inconvenient, and 715 00:34:21,956 --> 00:34:23,916 Speaker 1: you might even end up fifteen minutes late for a 716 00:34:24,036 --> 00:34:27,756 Speaker 1: very important podcast interview, but remember that taking the time 717 00:34:27,756 --> 00:34:30,116 Speaker 1: to help your child learn in these small moments can 718 00:34:30,116 --> 00:34:33,676 Speaker 1: make a huge difference. Next time on the Happiness Lab, 719 00:34:33,876 --> 00:34:36,676 Speaker 1: we'll wrap up our series on Happier Parenting with a 720 00:34:36,716 --> 00:34:40,476 Speaker 1: look at how technology is affecting kids happiness. We'll dig 721 00:34:40,516 --> 00:34:44,116 Speaker 1: into the impact of screens and social media on self image, attention, 722 00:34:44,316 --> 00:34:47,156 Speaker 1: and mental health, and we'll share tips for building a 723 00:34:47,196 --> 00:34:50,036 Speaker 1: plan that fits your family. And if you've found these 724 00:34:50,036 --> 00:34:53,676 Speaker 1: discussions helpful, you'll likely enjoy my free online course The 725 00:34:53,716 --> 00:34:56,676 Speaker 1: Science of All Being For parents. To learn more, just 726 00:34:56,756 --> 00:35:00,636 Speaker 1: head to doctor Lauri Santo's dot com slash parents. That's 727 00:35:00,756 --> 00:35:05,116 Speaker 1: Dr Laurisanto's dot com slash parents until next time. This 728 00:35:05,196 --> 00:35:08,276 Speaker 1: has been The Happiness Lab's special series on Happier Parenting 729 00:35:08,596 --> 00:35:13,916 Speaker 1: with me Doctor Laurie Santos