1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Welcome back to she Pivots. I'm hum Abadeen. 2 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 2: Welcome back to she Pivots, the podcast where women share 3 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 2: bold career moves and personal turning points that changed everything. 4 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: I'm your host Emily Tish Sussman. Today's guest has spent 5 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: decades at the center of power, but she initially planned 6 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: to keep her private and public lives separate. Hillary Clinton's 7 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: aid and closest advisor, Whuma Aberdeen helped to shape history 8 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 2: from inside the highest levels of government, serving as deputy 9 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 2: chief of Staff at the State Department and vice chair 10 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: of a presidential campaign that electrified the world, and then, 11 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 2: in the most public way imaginable, her private life unraveled 12 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: when her marriage to Anthony Weener collapsed in scandal. Whuma 13 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 2: faced a question so many women quietly carry, who are 14 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: you when the narrative about you isn't yours. Instead of retreating, 15 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: she pivoted her memoir Both and A Life in Many Worlds, 16 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: became a New York Times bestseller and a declaration that 17 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 2: you don't have to choose between strength and vulnerability, ambition 18 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: and identity, public life and personal truth. Today we talk 19 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 2: about her meteoric political rise, public heartbreak, rebuilding as a 20 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: single mother and stepping into love again on her own terms. 21 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 2: This is a conversation about power, mentorship and what it 22 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 2: really means to begin again. This is Huma Abideen and 23 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: this is how she pivots. What is your name and 24 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 2: what do you do? 25 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: I'm Whuma Abideen. I do lots of things. 26 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 2: Excellent, very good answer. Do you want to name some 27 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: of them? 28 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: I am an author, I am an organizer of women. 29 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: I have worked for Hillary Clinton for twenty eight years. 30 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: I'm a contributor on ms now, which is a new thing, 31 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: and co hosts on a show called Morning Mika, which 32 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: is now ms now Know Your Value Now. So everything 33 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: is shifting. But that's what I meant when I saw 34 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: a lot of things. 35 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 2: That's a lot of things. So we're going to back up. 36 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 2: We go in chronological order. Yeah, I miss show. So 37 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: I've been pretty strict to only have on people that 38 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: were born and raised in the US because I think 39 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: the cultural context matters so much. You were born in 40 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 2: the US, not necessarily raised in the US. So can 41 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 2: you give us just like a broad and this is 42 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: a huge question, but what was it like to grow 43 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: up in Saudi Arabia. Can you give us some cultural differences, 44 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: like what was a daily schedule for you? 45 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: Well, it was I say, I was born in one 46 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: world and I lived in another world. And I actually 47 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: felt like that was a huge benefit to that because 48 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: I was exposed to so many different cultures. It was 49 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: a very conservative society. There are certain norms and mandates 50 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: that you live by, rules societal rules that you lived 51 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: by that was very different from here. So, for example, 52 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: women were always covered. There was a segregation separation. I 53 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: went to an all girls school. If I went to 54 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: a restaurant with my girlfriends or went to a fast 55 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: food restaurant, because that was kind of going out in 56 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: the height of coolness, was going to Wendy's. There was 57 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: the family section, there was the men's section. So your 58 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: interaction with the opposite sex was very limited unless it 59 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: was somebody in your family. I went to a school 60 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: that was a British school, an international school, but I 61 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: was required to take Arabic lessons, all things that if 62 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: I had lived in Michigan, Io, I wouldn't have had 63 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: to do any of those things. But there was the 64 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: sense of family, community and culture that this deeply rooted 65 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: feeling of belonging. And I think a lot of the 66 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: confidence that I had growing up and traveling around and 67 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: wandering into a travel agency or into an airport and 68 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: being able to say I want this or I need 69 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: this came from that sense of I knew where I 70 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: came from, I knew I had a support system behind me, 71 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: and so I loved that part. There were parts that 72 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: were hard, and certainly I, you know, resisted and resented 73 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: for a period of time. We had religious police on 74 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: the street certain times of the year. So if you 75 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: were a woman and it was Ramadan and it was 76 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: the holy month of the year and you were not 77 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: properly covered, you were stopped by the religious police and 78 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: you were asked to cover your face or you know, 79 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: your legs were showing, you had to correct that. So 80 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: there were certain norms in that society you had to 81 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: get used to. 82 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: Do you think that it ever limited your vision of 83 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 2: how you saw yourself, how you would be in the future. 84 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: In many ways, It's interesting no one's ever asked me 85 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: that before, which is strange because I've talked a lot 86 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: about my childhood. I felt it was an out of 87 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: body experience in that I took in everything happening around me. 88 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: I did not experience that for myself. I was told 89 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: by my parents I could be whatever I wanted to 90 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,119 Speaker 1: be when I grew up. So when I was little 91 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: and I dreamed of dancing with Borishnikov, I said I 92 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: would be a ballerina. It didn't matter that gymnastics stopped 93 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: when I was eight years old because I wasn't considered 94 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 1: appropriate for girls. I still believed it. And I think 95 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: a lot of that comes from who your family is 96 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: and how you're raised. 97 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 2: So no I thought I could do anything. Do you 98 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 2: think it came from your mom being so strong and 99 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: self assured. 100 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: I think it came both from my parents. My father 101 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: was very provocative. He did not believe in a lot 102 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: of the traditional cultural or societal norms. I think it's 103 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: one of the reasons he stood out in our community 104 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: is he would say things that other people would find 105 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: shocking or inappropriate or you know, I always tell the 106 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: stories of like it was only around my dad that 107 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: you could watch kissing scenes in the movies and not 108 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: be told close your eyes or that's you know, shameful. 109 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: It was like he just he just accepted society around 110 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: him as even if it was different from his. He 111 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: didn't ever question other people as to how they lived. 112 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: So that was that. And my mom was a total badass. 113 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: My mother was the first woman in her family to 114 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: leave to study. Abroacho was supposed to be married in Pakistan. 115 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: She was betrothed, actually to be married to somebody before 116 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: she was allowed to go off to university to study 117 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: for her PhD in Pennsylvania. I got a full ride, 118 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: full bride scholarship. She just didn't look back. And I 119 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: think if she didn't have that sense of determination and 120 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: fierceness and strength, I don't think I would be here today. 121 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: What made you want to come to the US for 122 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: college and then at all? And like, what was it 123 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: that drew you and then applied it? In turn of 124 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: the White House? I think because my parents were such 125 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: curious people, and they wanted to travel, and they loved 126 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: to travel, and so much of my father's work involved 127 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: being at universities around the world old so we would 128 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: often find ourselves in Malaysia, Indonesia, or Tokyo or Paris 129 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: or Vienna or Athens. And I think for us going 130 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: to all those different places, it always meant ending up 131 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: in the United States. And I have a little chapter 132 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: in my book called is it America Yet? And for us, 133 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: it was because being American was the ideal, that was 134 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: the place where anything was possible, where you could do anything, 135 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: you could be anything, you could make anything. And I 136 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: had a lot of my extended family here. I have 137 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: fifty four first cousins. My mother is one of eight, 138 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: my father is one of nine, was one of nine, 139 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: and so we have a very large extended family, and 140 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: a lot of them lived in New York, so we 141 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: spent our summers here. So I had that quintessential August 142 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: of you know, running up and down the streets in Elmhurst, 143 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: Queens with my cousins. But what drew me to the 144 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: United States versus England, which is where my brother and sister, 145 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: my older brother and sister ended up studying in England, 146 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: where my father's foundation was based, was turning on the 147 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: TV one day and seeing Christiana. I'm poor And this 148 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: was early in the days when CNN International had just 149 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: come to satdi Arabias. This is the early nineties, and 150 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: I just saw her on TV. And we talk about 151 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: this all the time. You have to see something to 152 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: believe it's possible for you when I saw her, and 153 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: I'd never seen anybody who looked like she came from 154 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: our part of the world, and she just seemed like 155 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: such a fierce kind of truth teller, I mean, a 156 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: really intrepid truth teller. And I decided that's where I 157 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: wanted to be. And so I wanted to study journalism, 158 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: and I showed up, I started touring university, showed up 159 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: at George Washington University, and that was it. I got 160 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: there and knew that's where I wanted to be. Have 161 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: you had the opportunity to tell her that, yes, but 162 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: she's so humble. In fact, when my book came out 163 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, and I was very, very excited, 164 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: I got to do the Today Show, and I did 165 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: Colbert and I got to I mean, you name it. 166 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I was so privileged to sit with so 167 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: many incredible you know, on incredible shows and podcasts. But 168 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: when I saw the CNN requires and Chris John, I'm on, 169 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: poor was going to interview me. It was the one 170 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: I was most nervous about because I was in such 171 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: awe of her, and so as I was waiting to 172 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: get on, and it was still in the pandemic day, 173 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: so everything was remote and her producer was in my ear, 174 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: and I said to the producer, I can't wait to 175 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: do this interview and tell her that I just adore 176 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: her and she's the reason for so much of my 177 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: professional ambition. And the producer say, yeah, maybe don't mention 178 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: that on air in the interview. That's not all a wonderful teller. 179 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: After so she knows that I've met her a few 180 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: times and she's always been just very kind and gracious. 181 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: But it's very you know, minimizes it. Say you would 182 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: have been fine without. 183 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 2: Me, kind of and you managed to hold it together. 184 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: I managed to hold it together on the air, And 185 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: the few times I've been in her presence, she's still extraordinary. 186 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: You have been around incredible and very well known, very 187 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 2: famous people and very powerful people for twenty eight years, 188 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 2: if not longer in your role. Who has really star 189 00:09:59,080 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 2: struck you? 190 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: Oh wow, You know that's a really hard one to answer. 191 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: And I say this because and you'll appreciate this, because 192 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: you obviously know Hillary very well. And I entered my 193 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: internship at the White House when I was nineteen. I 194 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: was a junior entering my senior year in university. So 195 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: when you start at that level when the first Lady 196 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: of the United States is potentially like one of the 197 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: most impactful historic woman leaders in the history of our world. 198 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm biased, but she had just created this 199 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: environment where everybody was part of the team, and so 200 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: my bar for what is kind of starstruck is pretty high. 201 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: Having said all that, I think it was the early 202 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: days when you know, to walk in and to you know, 203 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: see Princess Diana from Afar. Probably the first time I 204 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: consciously remember just stopped in my tracks shaking was her, 205 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: you know, the front of the State floor, and I 206 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: believe it was in the East room, but seeing her 207 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: the first time Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith I 208 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: remember just being like a really big fan of Will 209 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: Smith's in the nineties and like he's wandering around at 210 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: a State dinner like looking for the restroom and I'm like, 211 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: oh my god, but you're You're Will Smith. And then 212 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: having this my professional right this way, So I would 213 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: say it was that it was then. I mean, here 214 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: you are this kid in the White House and all 215 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: these people showing up and the first female head of state, 216 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: and it's now it's a very complicated feeling for me, 217 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: but it was Chehasina, who at the time was the 218 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: Prime Minister of Bangladesh and one of the first women 219 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: heads of state. She's had a very complicated journey as 220 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: leader since then, but she was my first. I write 221 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: about her in my book. There's a you know, a 222 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: picture of her, so i'd have to say Princess Dina. 223 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: God, yeah, I really understand that. Huma interned in the 224 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 2: White House as a young college student and was assigned 225 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 2: to First Lady Hillary Clinton, a meeting that changed the 226 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 2: course of whom was life. After graduating, Huma became Hillary 227 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: Clinton's aide and personal advisor during Clinton's successful two thousand 228 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,479 Speaker 2: Senate campaign in New York. Her close work with Clinton continued, 229 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: and she was appointed deputy chief of staff to Clinton 230 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 2: in the State Department in two thousand and nine. Huma 231 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 2: married then US Representative Anthony Wiener in twenty ten. The 232 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 2: very next year, their family was thrown into scandal when 233 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 2: he sent lude pictures of himself to a woman over 234 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:27,719 Speaker 2: Twitter say I. 235 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: Have received the resignation of Anthony D. 236 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 3: Wiener as New York's ninth Congressional District representative. 237 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 2: Seems all anyone can talk about this morning is Anthony Weener, And. 238 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 3: Of course I want to express my gratitude to my family, 239 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 3: to my mother and father who instilled in me the 240 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 3: values they carried me this far, to my brother Jason, 241 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 3: and of course to my wife, Uma, who who stood 242 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 3: with me through this entire difficult period and to whom 243 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 3: I owe so very much. 244 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 2: Wiener resigned from Congress, and he and Whoma's personal lives 245 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 2: were turned upside down actually when it was announced that 246 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: Huma was pregnant more after the break. 247 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: It was hard because when my world first fell apart, 248 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: I was pregnant, and then sort of a successive series 249 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: of complications in my marriage and a marriage that I had. 250 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: You know, I got married, I waited to get married, 251 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: I waited for my true love and thought everything was 252 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: going to be perfect, and then it very quickly went 253 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: other ways. And in politics there's very very little permission 254 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: to be scandals of a certain kind, and certainly mine. 255 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: It was the first I would argue digital scandal. Twitter 256 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: had just come to be, and you know, shortly in 257 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: Facebook and all of these platforms that allowed for behavior 258 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: that just wasn't possible for people in politics before. So 259 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: I spent so much of my time just questioning why 260 00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: I don't understand and why I don't understand and why 261 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: I went through I would argue years of that I 262 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: don't understand why this is happening. Everything was so great, 263 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: Why is this happening? And I think it took some 264 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: real self reflection, some real I had to just gird myself. 265 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: I got up every single day and I focused on 266 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: my work as a woman and a single mom for 267 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: a period of time. I got very good at compartmentalizing. 268 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: And I think I have to make a generalization, but 269 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: I think women we often do that. It's like, you 270 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: get up every day, what do I have to do? 271 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: And you get through those things. And I did those things, 272 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: and I think that trauma took a lot longer for 273 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: me to get to the other side. I think that 274 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: it just took a lot of work, a lot of 275 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: personal work, and a huge community. I mean, I would 276 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: not be able to have done it without my family, Hillary, 277 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: the core woman in my life who kind of picked 278 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: me up and said I believe in you. I see 279 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: in you more than you see in yourself, and pushed 280 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: me to do things. And boy were they right. And 281 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: I will always be grateful for that community. Of life, 282 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: because I'm not sure I would have been able to 283 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: do it on my own. And then once I got 284 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: to the other side, now I look back and think 285 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: I was in such a fog. Everything was a fog 286 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: every day. And as long as your kid's going to 287 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: be okay, And I'm like super just proud of you, 288 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: know how my son has turned out in all of this, 289 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: in this journey and stronger for it, Like we're more 290 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: resilient for all the hardship. 291 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 2: Huma and Anthony stayed together and they had their son, Jordan, 292 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 2: in twenty eleven. In twenty thirteen, Anthony Weiener attempted a 293 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 2: political comeback by running for mayor of New York City. However, 294 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 2: his campaign was derailed by new revelations that he had 295 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: continued exchanging explicit messages with other women after his congressional resignation. 296 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 3: Growing pressure and former Congressman Anthony Wiener now locked in 297 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 3: a second texting scandal to end his New York City 298 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 3: mayoral campaign. 299 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: Anthony Wiener was easily defeated in his bid for mayor, 300 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 2: and Ellie Anthony Whoma served as vice chair for Hillary 301 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 2: Clinton's twenty sixteen campaign for president, a campaign that was 302 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 2: revolutionary and set to fundamentally shift the course of American 303 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 2: history forever. However, Huma's husband was reported to have been 304 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 2: exchanging sexually suggestive messages with a fifteen year old girl. 305 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: This led to an FBI investigation where investigators seized a 306 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 2: laptop used by both Anthony and Huma. The emails found 307 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 2: on this laptop prompted then FBI Director James Comey to 308 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: briefly reopen the investigation into Clinton's use of a private 309 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 2: email server just days before the twenty sixteen presidential election, 310 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 2: plunging Huma's family into scandal at a critical moment in 311 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: American politics. 312 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 3: According from The New York Times, here sees electronic devices 313 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 3: belonging to Huma Aberdeen and her husband, Anthony Wheel. 314 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 4: There has been an allegation that he was engaged in 315 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 4: some improper texting with an underaged girl. The FBI has 316 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 4: been looking into that, and we're told that that is 317 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 4: where this device surface. 318 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 3: And this is a dramatic turn of events here in 319 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 3: the last past, several days before a presidential election. 320 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 2: Despite carrying the popular vote, Hillary Clinton lost the twenty 321 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 2: sixteen presidential election. How has that tracked for you? In 322 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 2: that same timeframe, because obviously you were right there with her. 323 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 2: She needed support, but also you needed support. You had 324 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 2: a young child, you were leaving your husband, or at 325 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 2: least separating from your husband at that time. 326 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. 327 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 2: No, two people would ever have the exact same journey 328 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 2: in figuring out how to manage this and find their 329 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 2: own way in it. But your position was quite different 330 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 2: than her, like you had a quite different set of 331 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 2: circumstances than her. So how did your journey track along 332 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: with what you just described her journey was? 333 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: Well, I certainly went through a period of, as I 334 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: call walking on a tide rope and not knowing where 335 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: and how I could hold on, and just expecting that 336 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: every next step I was going to be in a 337 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: free fall. 338 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 2: In those moments, did you feel like there were markers 339 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 2: of saying, okay, we've made it to the next face. 340 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: No. I would always tell everybody I'm okay, I'm okay, 341 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: and then I would go to my empty apartment and 342 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: like sit through my list of too doos and not 343 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: sure how it was going to be okay. And because 344 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: there was so much shame wrapped into the circumstances that 345 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: my family was put in. I mean, you know, my 346 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: ex husband had to go away for a period of time. 347 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: I had to protect a seven year old who didn't understand. 348 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, COVID. One of the greatest gifts that 349 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: COVID gave me in a way was my anonymity. Back 350 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: like before twenty twenty, it was very hard to walk 351 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: around New York and not be recognized. Not have you 352 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: know my son? Would you know? Once asked Anthony and 353 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: I my ex husband and I, why do people so, 354 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: why do strangers stop you on the street and talk 355 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: to you? Is it, you know, because you work for them? 356 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: And we started laughing, say yes, yes, yes, But I 357 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: think having that ability to sort of step back, and 358 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: I wrote my book in that period of time. And 359 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: it was only when I sat through like an active 360 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: process with trained therapists, with my ex husband, trying to 361 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: understand the betrayal, the hurt, the shame, why he did 362 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: what he did, how it really impacted me and our son, 363 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: and how are we going to move forward together as 364 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: a family. You know, I talk to women all the 365 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: time who are going through I mean, this is the thing, 366 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, when you're going through it, it's a singular experience, 367 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 1: and it is a singular experience, but when you have 368 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: been betrayed by your partner, you feel like you're the loneliest, 369 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: most isolated person in the world, and it does help 370 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: to reach out to somebody who's gone through it. I 371 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: found it in my experience, and I now I feel 372 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: like it's an honor when women reach out to me 373 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: and say I'm trying to figure out how I do this, 374 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: And whenever I meet somebody and they'll say, it all 375 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: happened two months ago, but I've moved on and I 376 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: feel better. 377 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: You know. 378 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: I always say, you're just beginning your journey and you 379 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: have to power through and allow yourself to And that's 380 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: the one piece of advice I give, particularly women, which 381 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: is we tend to just lock it all up and 382 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:00,959 Speaker 1: bottle it in and say I'm going to be okay. 383 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: And the reality is you have to feel the feelings 384 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: and if the feeling is hurt, and the feeling is anger, 385 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 1: if the feeling is rage, all those feelings are okay, 386 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: and then trying to sit down and understand it. I 387 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 1: feel like once I sat down and understood why Anthony 388 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: did what he did, what addiction is, and particularly in 389 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: the digital space, how that impacts a family, and can 390 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 1: you stay in recovery once you have gone away and 391 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: come back and taken responsibility for your actions, and can 392 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: you be a responsible parent and citizen in society. The 393 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: answer is yes, but it's work, and it's a lot 394 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: of work. 395 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 2: You alluded to this, but yes, I've been around powerful 396 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 2: people my whole life and don't often get starstruck, but 397 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 2: I do with h Ic. She's so accomplished and means 398 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 2: so much to me. She was, I think, really truly 399 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 2: the inspiration for me starting this podcast, because I was 400 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 2: so broken after her loss in twenty sixteen. We all were, 401 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 2: you know, we were so broken. And then obviously she 402 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 2: took her time. And I don't know her nearly as 403 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 2: well as you do, but I've never seen her look 404 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 2: happier now, and in those couple of years after she 405 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,479 Speaker 2: just said, well, now I'm going to be me. And 406 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 2: the fact that she was comfortable with herself and pursuing 407 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 2: the things that she wanted to pursue and you could 408 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 2: just see it radiating from her was just unbelievably inspirational 409 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 2: to me, and I wanted to hear how somebody could 410 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 2: do that. She didn't run again, right like she said, 411 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 2: I'm done now and now I'm going to be me. 412 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 2: That was so powerful and inspiration still is so powerful 413 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 2: and inspirational to me that I just thought, like, how 414 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: do I get people to talk about it? So I'm 415 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 2: sure you've gone through many many conversations like that with her. 416 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 2: How was that evolution for you? 417 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: I think for me seeing her. You know, I turned 418 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: fifty this summer and I've actually thought a lot about 419 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: this in the last few months. She was my age 420 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: when she was first Lady. She turned fifty in the 421 00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: White House, and I think she sometimes takes issue with people, 422 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,959 Speaker 1: and I'm not going to put words in her mouth saying, 423 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: you know, you have to shape shift. She is of 424 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: the pioneers, that generation of women who had to fight 425 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: for all the rights that you and I when we 426 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: were growing up, the things that our moms had to 427 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: go through and Hilary had to go through, we just 428 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: took for granted. We took for granted we can do anything, 429 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: be anything, have it all, and then all of it 430 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: comes and we realized is really hard to have it 431 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: all and finding that balance is really hard. I find 432 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: it fascinating that even at that stage in her life, 433 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: she never had this sense of insecurity about who she 434 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: was and other women, So there was never this sense 435 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: of like I'm going to be the only because I'm 436 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: the best and I'm the smartest. It was almost as 437 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: that was a given that she always had the ideas. 438 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: She was always going to be the policy wnk. She 439 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: always wanted to push forward. She didn't care so much 440 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: about on the personality side. She was who she was. 441 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: She didn't care so much on the fashion side. She 442 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: talks about this often, that the fashion and skipped to 443 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: a generation. 444 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 2: That's what you're for. 445 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: And I think I think, amongst others, I do lave fashion. 446 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: And I think what happened is that, you know, you 447 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: started the question by saying how broken you were a 448 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: post twenty sixteen. I was certainly broken. She was certainly broken. 449 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: But she I think has succeeded in her life because 450 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: she does not wallow in the negative. She does not 451 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: wallow and defeat. She always thinks of the next thing, 452 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: how do I fix this, how do I make it better? 453 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: How do I help? How do I and look some 454 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: part of it is, you know. I actually interviewed sonamar 455 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: In a few weeks ago, who was the former prime 456 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,360 Speaker 1: Minister of Finland. She's awesome. Didn't know her, and I said, 457 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: what do you miss? What do you miss about leading 458 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: your country? She's like, I misspower. I miss having power 459 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: and being able to do things. And I think at 460 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: the end of the day, she said something that I 461 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: think Hillary Clinton would have said thirty years ago and 462 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: maybe even today, which is when you have power of 463 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: the ability to do things, it's not power for power stake, 464 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: it's powered to do things. And I think post twenty sixteen, 465 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: it was clear that she was not going to be 466 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: the leader of the free world. She was not going 467 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: to be the first woman president the United States? So 468 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: how do I use my platform to do things? And 469 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 1: it's now iterated in different ways, So you're right, it's 470 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: not politics, even though she still helps a whole next 471 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: generation of politicians. She's got her foundational work, she's got 472 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: her women's work, she's or climate I mean, part of 473 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: her portfolio is just it's so broad. But I think 474 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 1: that has liberated her. I think being released from actively 475 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: campaigning has released her into being able to do whatever 476 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 1: she wants. And I think, I mean, I think if 477 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: you are involved in public service and politics, you're never 478 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: done you're always in some way kind of pulled in. 479 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: You and I are both in this in this boat, 480 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: but allowing ourselves to express our power in other ways, 481 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: which is what you're doing through your podcast, which is 482 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: what I'm doing through all the work I'm now pursuing, 483 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: and what Hillary's doing in all of her work. I 484 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: think think is our way of saying, we are not 485 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: defeated and there is a path forward. 486 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 2: Your book is called both and both and so many things. 487 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 2: One of the things that strikes me most about you 488 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,199 Speaker 2: is the both and the public and the private. That 489 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: there's so much that you didn't necessarily choose to be 490 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 2: public in your life, including that your pregnancy was announced 491 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 2: by the New York Times, something that people want to 492 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 2: hold on to, like some of the most private things 493 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,479 Speaker 2: for themselves, and then obviously would happen with your family. 494 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 2: How did you decide to really become your own public 495 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,479 Speaker 2: figure and decide what you talk about publicly, like what 496 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 2: you own publicly. 497 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned the New York Times announcing my 498 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: pregnancy because of all the things that have happened to me, everything, 499 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: you know, every single investigation and every single accusation, or 500 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: you know, being accused of being a spy, or remember 501 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: of the Muslim brotherhood, or you know, not American enough. 502 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: I would say, in terms of long term impact in 503 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: my heart, in my head, was that because any woman 504 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: who is blessed to find that they were carrying a child, 505 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: particularly a baby that they want, that's a precious gift. 506 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: You want to be able to call your mom and say, Mom, 507 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: I'm pregnant. You want to think about all the different ways. 508 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: I will look at a video of people doing a 509 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: baby reveal and it's triggering because I do feel like 510 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: that was cheated from me and I still do, and 511 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: I did it the other day. It's crazy, like I 512 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: will be walking down the street, or I will be 513 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: in the shower, or I'll be at a restaurant with 514 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: a friend ordering a menu, and I will just literally 515 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: say I'm pregnant. Like it's not conscious. It is so 516 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: buried deep in my subconscious that I don't even know 517 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: I'm doing it. And then even my son who's now thirteen, 518 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: will be you know, acknowledges it, and you have to 519 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: think about these traumas that these things that happen to 520 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: you and stay with you. But I acknowledge it. I 521 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: acknowledge it, and I accept it, and I just I 522 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: live with it. I guess is the word I don't. 523 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: That's something that I'm not sure that one I'm ever 524 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: going to quite get over. As you can see, just 525 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: even even for my answer. 526 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 2: Whoma's path forward meant telling her story on her own terms. 527 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 2: After the break, we'll hear about how one thirty minute 528 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 2: conversation convinced her to reintroduce herself to the world. 529 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: It happened in thirty minutes, like it was a fingersnap moment, 530 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: and it was in part because after the twenty sixteen election, 531 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: I was really trying to figure out how I was 532 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: going to pivot, what that pivot was going to be. 533 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: I knew that I was always going to have a 534 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: safe space and a safe harbor with Hillary. That's just 535 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: something that she creates when you work for her, is 536 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: they want. She wants you to grow and learn and 537 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: in a perfect world, like you know, fly, use those 538 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: wings to fly, but she will always be there to 539 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: support you. And the idea of telling my story as 540 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: a way to kind of really reintroduce myself to the 541 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: world because I had been introduced by other people, whether 542 00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: it was the media, whether it was other people speaking 543 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: on my behalf, whether it was Hillary who would be 544 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,199 Speaker 1: asked questions about me in bilateral meetings, whether it was 545 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 1: my ex husband being asked about me. He would say 546 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: all kinds of things. So I was kind of this 547 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: enigma to the world. And initially in two thousand and seven, 548 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: when I first came on to the public stage in 549 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: a way, that was the first profile that was written 550 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: about me. It was this very sort of fawning piece 551 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: about this mysterious, enigmatic creature, which in two thousand and 552 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: seven was this wonderful thing. But fast forward to elections later, 553 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: mysterious turns into sinister? What does she believe? What is 554 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: I didn't look like anybody else. I had a different name, 555 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: I had a different faith, and had a different you know, 556 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: lived experience growing up, all the things that had been 557 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: an advantage in the White House in the nineties, because 558 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: here was Bill Clinton exploring the world, exploring particularly pursuing 559 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: the Middle East peace process, and I had a lot 560 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: to offer in that perspective. All of a sudden you 561 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: became this questionable person. But the thirty minutes was over lunch, 562 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: when after, you know, I write in the book and 563 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: I've talked about this extensively both and that idea of 564 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: the book was Anna Winter's idea, and she's the one 565 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: who suggested I do it. Hillary supported it. And I 566 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: go down and sit to have advice. I sit down 567 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: and have like an advice lunch with this man who, 568 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: amongst other things, gave people advice about what to do 569 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: with their lives and helped them do it. It was 570 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: an agent of sorts. And when I said to him, 571 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: people think I should, you know, tell my story. He said, 572 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: why would you write your book? And I've said, because 573 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:23,719 Speaker 1: you know, it's a good story and I have a 574 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: you know, a lot to offer and and he said, yeah, 575 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: I don't know unless you can answer to the world 576 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: why Hillary really explained why she lost. I don't really 577 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: think anyone's interested in hearing anymore about all that scandal. 578 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: And that was it. It was it was my whole 579 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: life like flashed before my eyes and was that one word. 580 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: And I walked out of the lunch and I said, 581 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: I want to tell my story. It's it actually felt 582 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: like an imperative. And then I just sat and vomited 583 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: on paper and Emily, I look back, Now, I'll read 584 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: my book I'll pick off my book not often enough, 585 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: and I'll read chapters, and even for me, I find 586 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: it affirming and I have a lot of pride in that. 587 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: And then it opened all kinds of avenues and opportunities. 588 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 2: It was a few years ago, you did an excellent book, 589 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 2: or you finished the book tour, and you were willing 590 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 2: to come and sit down and talk about your life 591 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 2: even outside of the book. Today, so much has happened 592 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 2: to you, even in those couple of years. You've got married, 593 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 2: and congratulations, thank you. What do you want people to 594 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 2: know now? We're like a post book tour conversation, like 595 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 2: what do you want people to know? Now? 596 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: That if you sit still, you become stagnant, and stagnant 597 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: water is not good. So take brief pauses, but don't 598 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: sit still for too long. And I think for me, 599 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: my professional identity for so long was politics and public service, 600 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: and really very specifically in support of, you know, a 601 00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: history making candidate. I wanted people to know that even 602 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: when things are really really really really really bad, there's 603 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: always somebody who always has it worse than you, and 604 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: try to do something, you know, I try to push 605 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: myself every single day, like what is something different and 606 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: new that I can try to do that will flex 607 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: my brain. You know, if you're not getting up every 608 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: single day and you're not curious. I think it's one 609 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: of the most you probably get so much out of 610 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: the podcast that you do when you talk to people, 611 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: is that you have so much to offer, but what 612 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: you're learning from other people, you're pushing yourself to, you know, 613 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: be out there and share, whether it's a lesson or 614 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: a secret or an idea. It's life just goes by 615 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: so quickly, and I think it can pass you by. 616 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: And I and for especially young women who think this 617 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: is it. I'm in the you know, in my prime 618 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: when they send fifteen minutes, I mean it really it's 619 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: that's not an exaggeration. It goes by very fasts. You 620 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: have to think about ways that you can contribute to 621 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: society where you can you know, and by the way, 622 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: be greedy about money. I do think that's something that 623 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: I was very very late to the party on asking 624 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: for money or asking for a raise, or thinking I 625 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: wanted to be ambitious about my financial goals was distasteful. 626 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: And I think this is very much a generational thing 627 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: for me. I don't think women who come after me 628 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: are as timid about it, but I think that's that's 629 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: that's very important, and so I'm trying to do something 630 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: different every day an even if it's an idea that's 631 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: never going to work, Let's try. And that's why my 632 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: the mentorship and networking summit that I do once a 633 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: year with Forbes and the Know Your Value platform I 634 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: run with Mika Brasinski is a big part of my 635 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: next chapter in life. 636 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 2: So what is one thing that at the time you 637 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 2: saw is a real low point, like something that you 638 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 2: just thought, I don't know how I'm going to seeing 639 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 2: myself out of this, and now in retrospect you see 640 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 2: it as having really built you to the person you 641 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 2: are now. 642 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: I think it was it has to be twenty sixteen. 643 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: It just of all the things that I think about, 644 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: because it was very hard to image life after that, 645 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: and especially since some of us took a very personal 646 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: like I took a lot of personal responsibility for her 647 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: loss a lot of people, and it was hard to 648 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: get up and think, Okay, what's the path forward? And 649 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: I figured it out. I didn't think it would be easy. 650 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: And I also found love again, and there's something about 651 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: love that it is a sense of serenity and to 652 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: be able to sit in silence with somebody. I think 653 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,479 Speaker 1: that has given that's been a gift for me. It 654 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: doesn't take away from my identity or my independence of 655 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: things I want to do. But having that partner, I 656 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: just never imagine that was pot I didn't expect it. 657 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I just thought this was it. You know, 658 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: it's never going to get married again, never going to 659 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: have that again. So every relationship was a gift. I 660 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: even say to my ex husband, you gave me the greatest, 661 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: the greatest gift in my life. So you can't look 662 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: back at any of it with regret. So yeah, I 663 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: would have to say twenty sixteen. But I look now 664 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: back and say, everything happens for a reason, and we've 665 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: all come out to the other side. You're on the 666 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: other side, on the other side, and we're going to 667 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: be okay. Do you think you'll pivot again? Yes, I'm 668 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: all about a pivot. If you have any ideas for 669 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: a pivot, I'm all I'm all about my next pivot. 670 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: I want to try something I've never tried before. 671 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 2: Oh are you making a space for something new now? Yes? 672 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 4: Oh? 673 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 2: I love this what's on the table. 674 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not sure yet. I'm working on that part. 675 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: But number one, I do want to I really really 676 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: find the mentorship space something that I think is really 677 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: important work. That the number of young women who come 678 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: up to me, and you know, it's one of my 679 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: favorite stories from this summit that I do, and it 680 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,879 Speaker 1: brings women from all over the world. But this young 681 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 1: woman who said she got on a plane. I had 682 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: no idea why she was coming to a summit with 683 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: other women to talk about finance and business and ambition 684 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: and investing and whatever networking, but she came because she's like, 685 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: I've got a I'm happily married, I've got kids, my 686 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,959 Speaker 1: business is thriving. And she said, I spent three days 687 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: here and I realized why I'm here, and that is 688 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: because what I've learned after three days being around other 689 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,839 Speaker 1: women who are doing all kinds of different things that 690 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: it's okay to want more. It's okay to say what 691 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: I have isn't enough and I want more. And at 692 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: the end of the day, that is about being ambitious 693 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: for yourself and that's a good thing. 694 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 2: What a note to end inspirational. Thank you so much, Shuma. 695 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,479 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks Ellily, I loved this conversation. Oh me too. 696 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 2: Thinking about this conversation with Huma, what stays with me 697 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 2: most is her refusal to let anyone else define her story. 698 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 2: Instead of shrinking, she expanded, She wrote her story, She 699 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 2: claimed her voice. She found love again. She rebuilt as 700 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 2: a mother, as an author, as a woman who understands 701 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 2: that strength and vulnerability are not opposites. Today Whom is 702 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 2: a contributor on MS now, a co host on Morning 703 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 2: Mika with Mika Brazinski, and vice chair of the Forbes 704 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 2: thirty fifty Summit. Keep up with Huma on Instagram at 705 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 2: Huma Abidin and on her website Huma dash Abadeen dot com. 706 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to She Pivots. Until next time, 707 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to She Pivots. If you like this episode, 708 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 2: follow the show so you never miss a pivot story 709 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 2: and share it with one woman in your life who 710 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 2: might need to hear it. To learn more about our 711 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 2: guests and join our community, follow us on Instagram at 712 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 2: she Pivots the podcast our Subscribe to our substack for 713 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,720 Speaker 2: exclusive content and behind the scenes conversations. You can also 714 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 2: find us at shepivotspod dot com. This episode was produced 715 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 2: and edited by Paige Davis Janatt, with sound editing and 716 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 2: mixing by Nina Pollock. Logistics and planning by Amastopic and 717 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 2: Kendall Crupkin. Research by Christine Dickison. She pivots is proud 718 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 2: to be a part of the iHeart podcast network. I 719 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 2: endorse she pivots