Speaker 1: I find that the trans people that have the best
Speaker 1: sense of humor are also the ones that made the
Speaker 1: best activists.
Speaker 2: Welcome, beauties to part two of my interview with Monica
Speaker 2: Helmes and her wife Darlene Wagner. If you have not
Speaker 2: already heard part one, it brings us to where we
Speaker 2: are now. I encourage you to go check it out. First,
Speaker 2: here's Darlene talking about the first time she met Monica.
Speaker 3: We met at a square dance. Okay, the well, it
Speaker 3: wasn't a square dance or more like a contra dance.
Speaker 3: It was contra dance slash square dance, a little bit
Speaker 3: slower than a contra dance, and I asked Monica to dance.
Speaker 3: It was the first time that Monica showed up to
Speaker 3: my dance group that I had been involved with for
Speaker 3: a couple of years and in which I was starting
Speaker 3: to come out as trans, and it was a safe
Speaker 3: base for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was the trans community like in like two
Speaker 2: thousand and nine when you were coming out?
Speaker 3: There are very few people, like, very few professionals. I've
Speaker 3: I'm a fairly privileged person as far as trans goes.
Speaker 3: For one thing, I'm Caucasian. Second, my parents are fairly
Speaker 3: well off. They own a house and own land, and
Speaker 3: I still had to pay my own way through grad
Speaker 3: school though. Yeah, but I was fairly privileged, and there
Speaker 3: were very few other trans people of my background around.
Speaker 3: Most of the transgender people I knew were African American homeless,
Speaker 3: forced into survival sex work. And to this day I
Speaker 3: rack my heart and mind and pray and meditate on
Speaker 3: ways in which I can reach out to my life
Speaker 3: fortunate sisters who are hurting or maybe maybe not. I
Speaker 3: shouldn't say hurt. I sound a little I probably sound
Speaker 3: a little patronizing. I don't mean to sound that way.
Speaker 2: It's just that I think it's okay to say that.
Speaker 2: I mean, since January of this year, six black trans
Speaker 2: women have been shot and killed in the city of Atlanta, right,
Speaker 2: And that, I think is something you know, to say, like,
Speaker 2: those are the people that are most at risk in
Speaker 2: our community, you know, right.
Speaker 3: I want to do everything I can to help them
Speaker 3: and keep them safe. And I'm soon going to be
Speaker 3: getting a five oh one c three going called the
Speaker 3: Transgender Day of Remembrance Atlanta, although I might later have
Speaker 3: to change its name to get the transgender out of
Speaker 3: the title. If according to how the government cracks down
Speaker 3: on transgender organizations. But it's that adaptability thing happening again.
Speaker 3: But I want to focus on violence prevention for transfeminine
Speaker 3: people and also violence prevention for biological females as well,
Speaker 3: because we shouldn't be in conflict with our non trans sisters.
Speaker 3: We are facing the same patriarchal violence and denial of
Speaker 3: bodily autonomy that they are. We should be united rather
Speaker 3: than fighting each other over things like tell her what
Speaker 3: happened to your coworker. One of the non trans women
Speaker 3: recently slain by gun violence was my coworker from CDC,
Speaker 3: thirty eight years old, has two kids and a husband.
Speaker 3: So back on May seventh, I organized a march through
Speaker 3: the Marietta Square commemorating not only the trans women who've
Speaker 3: been slain this year in Atlanta, but also my cisgender coworker.
Speaker 3: We must do everything mobilized and organized to stop femicide.
Speaker 2: What do you to enjoy or what do you get
Speaker 2: out of fulfillment out of being in a relationship with
Speaker 2: another transgender woman? How has that impacted you positively?
Speaker 3: Interestingly enough, Monica thinks of herself as lesbian, whereas I
Speaker 3: tend to shy away from the term lesbian. I might
Speaker 3: actually be bisexual, even though I'm not really attracted to men.
Speaker 3: I'm very very much attracted to feminine type people. I'm
Speaker 3: most strongly attracted to other trans females, probably because it's
Speaker 3: just that's who I connect with the That's probably why
Speaker 3: I've been with Monica all this time. She just being
Speaker 3: next to her, it just feels so safe and so
Speaker 3: familiar to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, what about for you, Monica?
Speaker 1: Well, I initially when I first started transitioning, I thought
Speaker 1: that I was bisexual, and when I came out to
Speaker 1: my mom being trans, she said, oh, gee, I wish
Speaker 1: you were just gay. And then about three years later,
Speaker 1: I realized that I wasn't bisexual, that I was only
Speaker 1: attracted to women, And so I called my mom and said,
Speaker 1: guess what, Mom, you got your wish. I am gay.
Speaker 1: All my life, I've only been attracted to girls and women,
Speaker 1: And I realized, why do I have to change when
Speaker 1: I become a woman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you were trying to access medical transition, trying
Speaker 2: to act access gender firming care, was that something that
Speaker 2: you had to hide the fact that you were attracted
Speaker 2: to women?
Speaker 1: Oh? No, No, this was in the late nineties. That
Speaker 1: that stuff I got it was gone. Yeah, that stuff
Speaker 1: was all different.
Speaker 2: It had been changed by our previous generations who had
Speaker 2: made made it better for us.
Speaker 1: Think a lot of a lot of my lot of
Speaker 1: those are my friends. Yeah, like Dallas Dnny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dallas Denny was a big part of that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: What was it like working with Dallas Denny and working
Speaker 2: on those publications during that time?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Transgender Tapestry. I wrote an article that's the
Speaker 1: way it was, and it was about various things that
Speaker 1: happened in the community over the last time since we
Speaker 1: public policized, and Dallas and I had a really great relationship.
Speaker 1: It was it was so much fun. You know, I
Speaker 1: kind of made it sound like, you know, she was
Speaker 1: at the the the Transgender Tapestry tower and up at
Speaker 1: the you know, the the top of the.
Speaker 4: Executive office executive office.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh, you know, and and then she would
Speaker 1: say things like, well, I'm going to double your pay,
Speaker 1: which was zero anyway. So yeah, Dallas has a great
Speaker 1: sense of humor, which I find that the trans people
Speaker 1: that have the best sense of humor are also the
Speaker 1: ones that made the best activists because they didn't get
Speaker 1: burned out. Darlene and I make jokes about everything we
Speaker 1: see something on television and did they just say such?
Speaker 1: You know, and you know we we would just we
Speaker 1: create our own our own jokes out of it. So
Speaker 1: and we call uh the governor of Florida, Ronda Sauron.
Speaker 2: Like sorrows. Yeah, you have to have a sense of
Speaker 2: humor in order to live this life, you know, because
Speaker 2: it really tries you. You know, society tries us, and
Speaker 2: it can be very stressful. And if I wasn't able
Speaker 2: to laugh at myself or life, I don't think I'd
Speaker 2: still be here. You know, we're going to take our
Speaker 2: first break when we come back. Monica and Darlene share
Speaker 2: their experiences with parenting and welcome back.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: I know you to mention you recently tried to adopt
Speaker 2: a child. Do you want to talk a little bit
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 3: Darlene, I'm gonna like, I'm willing to open up about it.
Speaker 2: When was this, by the way, when.
Speaker 4: We took her in.
Speaker 3: In mid December, she identified as transfeminine. We figured, you know,
Speaker 3: this is going to be a great match because two
Speaker 3: trans women raising a transfeminine child who's been in the
Speaker 3: foster system for five years. We can be her forever family,
Speaker 3: and we can protect her and get her the care
Speaker 3: that she needs. Unfortunately, she had lots of trauma to
Speaker 3: unpack five years in the system, and in before that,
Speaker 3: unspeakable abuse that the Defacts documentation just barely scraped the
Speaker 3: surface of. She was very closed off, noncommunicative. She would
Speaker 3: occasionally laugh, occasionally show some emotion or anger. Actually, looking
Speaker 3: back on it, I should have been more suspicious that
Speaker 3: she didn't get angry more often. She was very detached.
Speaker 3: I really care about this kid, even though she doesn't
Speaker 3: live with us anymore. I loved her as if she
Speaker 3: were my own biological child. Not quite the same as
Speaker 3: a death, because I know that the kid is in
Speaker 3: a different house and is happier, or at least I
Speaker 3: hope she's happier now. And her foster mom said that
Speaker 3: she put on weight during her time that she was
Speaker 3: with us, which is a good sign. So we kind
Speaker 3: of got her to a healthier, physically healthier place at least.
Speaker 2: Do you think you'll ever try to adopt again?
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I'm not giving a I'm want to have
Speaker 3: a family, and unlike Monica, who had a chance to
Speaker 3: have biological children. I never had that chance, no serious
Speaker 3: relationships with any cisgender women prior to my transition.
Speaker 2: Right, And Monica, what is your relationship with your children
Speaker 2: and your grandchildren? Like now?
Speaker 1: Really good? Actually, we're in fact a week from today
Speaker 1: we're going to be flying out to Phoenix to see
Speaker 1: them and then drive to California to see the other son.
Speaker 1: Haven't seen him in a while, and be nice to
Speaker 1: be able to spend some time with them.
Speaker 2: Although Monica and Darlene did not match with their foster child,
Speaker 2: they're still interested in parenting a trans child together. Here's
Speaker 2: Monica as she talks more about the power of activism.
Speaker 2: Were there any more details maybe about your own transition
Speaker 2: story that you wanted to give and just like how
Speaker 2: that was for you at during that time when you
Speaker 2: were transitioning.
Speaker 1: I joined a online group, well it was not necessarily
Speaker 1: only just online, but it was a group of former
Speaker 1: submarine sailors called United States Submarine Veterans of America. And
Speaker 1: so I joined them before I transitioned, and then I
Speaker 1: started transitioning, and I wanted to still be part of
Speaker 1: the group. You know, there was a local chapter and everything,
Speaker 1: and and the local chapter was having a problem with
Speaker 1: me being me, So it took a little bit, but
Speaker 1: I finally renewed my membership in this organization, becoming the
Speaker 1: first transferson in the organization and it you know, it
Speaker 1: was also my first active activism.
Speaker 2: And I know you're also the first trans people to
Speaker 2: place a wreath on the.
Speaker 1: Tomb of the Unknown. Yeah, A Trensien your American Veterans Association.
Speaker 1: We went to DC in two thousand and four and
Speaker 1: it was a march to the Wall because a lot
Speaker 1: of trans women were afraid to go to the wall
Speaker 1: and see the names of people that they knew and stuff,
Speaker 1: and so we wanted to give them a safe thing
Speaker 1: to do it. And we had fifty people show up
Speaker 1: and it was was wonderful. And then that on that weekend,
Speaker 1: we also laid a reef at the Tomb of the Unknown,
Speaker 1: first trans organization to do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's huge, Monica. Thank you just for for everything
Speaker 2: you've done for the trans community and for trans veterans.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's amazing. I know you you're talking
Speaker 2: about moving out of Georgia because of the way that
Speaker 2: the things have been.
Speaker 3: Lighter, hopefully rather than sooner. Georgia is my home, and
Speaker 3: I've tried living in other states before, but I was
Speaker 3: really homesick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I being raised in Georgia my whole life too.
Speaker 2: I've never called any other state home before, so it's
Speaker 2: kind of a hard reality to start to kind of
Speaker 2: think about. And I hope that doesn't come to that.
Speaker 2: But what keeps you both hopeful when the times are
Speaker 2: as bad as they are. What keeps you both going well?
Speaker 1: For me, it's noticing that every time there is another election,
Speaker 1: even in a small election or some place, the Republicans
Speaker 1: are losing. Just last week, there was an election for
Speaker 1: the mayor of Jacksonville, Florida, and the Democrat won, the
Speaker 1: first Democrat to run this city in a long time.
Speaker 1: And the person that the Republican who ran was spouting
Speaker 1: all the Rohn de Santis things and apparently the people
Speaker 1: didn't want to hear it. So I'm hopeful that what
Speaker 1: we might be seeing is, you know, it's a little
Speaker 1: scary to hope that it's going to half of it
Speaker 1: to see all these elections come about where people with
Speaker 1: something that is going to help other people is going
Speaker 1: to be the ones that get elected, not the people
Speaker 1: that want to take us back in time.
Speaker 2: What about you, darling, do you have anything?
Speaker 3: My greatest hope during these dark times is the inherent
Speaker 3: strength of the transgender and non binary communities. There's a
Speaker 3: lot more to us than what we lack in political
Speaker 3: clout or economic resources. There is a fire, a natural
Speaker 3: fire inside of us that cannot be extinguished. And Monica
Speaker 3: alluded to how elections are important. In voting is important,
Speaker 3: but I would expand upon that. We've got to put
Speaker 3: our fire inside of us to work not just around elections,
Speaker 3: but year round, especially even in off years like this
Speaker 3: past year was an off year in the Georgia. Legislator
Speaker 3: passed nasty laws to suppress us. But we stood up.
Speaker 3: We stood up at the Liberty Plaza outside of the
Speaker 3: Capitol building. We're going to stand up more across the summer.
Speaker 3: We are going to organize, We're going to mobilize. We
Speaker 3: might get a little militant, but that's what it takes
Speaker 3: when we are under attack systematically, we have to push
Speaker 3: back with all the energy and intensity inside of us.
Speaker 3: And I want to conclude with the words of Winston Churchill,
Speaker 3: never give up, never give up, never give up. And
Speaker 3: then my own words too. You are loved.
Speaker 2: We're going to take our last break here, listeners. When
Speaker 2: we come back, we will wrap up our conversation with
Speaker 2: Monica and Darlene with a question from Janie Danger, and
Speaker 2: we're back, listeners.
Speaker 5: I actually have a transflag of my own in my
Speaker 5: house above my bed, and in fact, the person who
Speaker 5: bought it for me bought it at pre I'd, i.
Speaker 4: Want to say, twenty nineteen and I wasn't.
Speaker 5: Able to go because I had to work, and they
Speaker 5: bought it from you like yourself, and he signed it.
Speaker 1: Did I sign it?
Speaker 4: Yeah? You did sign up?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because we were We did booths every once
Speaker 1: in a while to you know, for either our church
Speaker 1: or other places, and then I would sign flags.
Speaker 5: Well for people. I appreciate that. It's very cool and
Speaker 5: I like to tell people that when they see it.
Speaker 5: And also anytime I post like a picture or like
Speaker 5: a video or something and people see my room, I
Speaker 5: get a lot of comments from people saying you need
Speaker 5: to iron your flag, and it's like, you need to
Speaker 5: mind your own fucking business.
Speaker 4: How about that?
Speaker 2: What do you think about ironing?
Speaker 5: You think about I've and the reason I've not done
Speaker 5: it is because I don't want to mess up the signature.
Speaker 5: And also I don't own an iron, So yeah.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it's up to your up to you,
Speaker 1: you know, right, you know it's your flag, that's my flag.
Speaker 4: You know it's an our flag. Yeah, well but this
Speaker 4: one's literally mine.
Speaker 1: Yes, that one's yours. So you do what you want with.
Speaker 4: It, thank you. So I can tell that to the haters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell that to the haters. Monica Helmes said, do
Speaker 2: whatever you want with your flag, thank you.
Speaker 1: Are you on? Are you on Facebook?
Speaker 4: I think I'm on.
Speaker 5: I am on Facebook, but I don't really. I don't
Speaker 5: really use it. I've been trying to get banned from
Speaker 5: Facebook for years.
Speaker 1: Oh well that should be easy.
Speaker 4: It's surprisingly not.
Speaker 5: You can get away with the horrendous things on Facebook.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm more afraid of getting a concerned phone call
Speaker 3: from my mom if I post something that's a bit
Speaker 3: off on Facebook. So my my mom polices my posts
Speaker 3: on Facebook.
Speaker 5: So yeah, it's the worst one because your whole your
Speaker 5: whole family's there. Why would why would I want to
Speaker 5: use the social med My family is on.
Speaker 1: Her whole family is definitely on and everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you should see Jenny on Twitter and what's the
Speaker 2: other one, the new one, the Blue Sky, the Blue Sky.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you gotta get I don't have any invite codes.
Speaker 5: I would give you guys some.
Speaker 4: If I do.
Speaker 2: She's dying for a Blue Sky invite code.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I got.
Speaker 5: I'm on there now wife Sucker dot blue Sky Social.
Speaker 5: Yeah that's kind of all I had. I really liked the,
Speaker 5: uh the progress part. And also I didn't know you
Speaker 5: were a Christian. I'm also a Christian and that was
Speaker 5: really touching.
Speaker 2: So I didn't go, do you were a Christian? Janey?
Speaker 4: Yeah. If I've not talked about that.
Speaker 2: I've never we've never talked about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, I'm learning things, so yes, well yeah.
Speaker 3: Well maybe one of these days that you can do
Speaker 3: a breakout Christian punk rock hit.
Speaker 5: In the other incorporated some mostly on the on the
Speaker 5: new album that I have coming out. I've gotten some
Speaker 5: kind of It's not incredibly uh it, but there is
Speaker 5: a lot of themes like that, and there for sure
Speaker 5: things of God.
Speaker 4: And you listen to Fly flyly, I used to Oh yeah,
Speaker 4: Paramore girl.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Para is awesome.
Speaker 5: Yeah, or under Oath if we're talking like Christian more
Speaker 5: specific Christian bands.
Speaker 2: Have y'all listened to Ethyl Kane yet.
Speaker 3: Ethyl Caine?
Speaker 5: Y'all?
Speaker 2: Ethel Caine is she is our She's our trans. So
Speaker 2: she's a trans woman from Tallahassee, Florida who makes music
Speaker 2: all about like the Southern it's like Southern Gothic like,
Speaker 2: and it's like got some like religious undertones because she
Speaker 2: was Her album is called Preacher's Daughter because she was literally, uh,
Speaker 2: what do you call it? The people that do the
Speaker 2: snakes and stuff? Yeah, she was the son of a
Speaker 2: of a snake.
Speaker 5: There's a certain kind of Christianity. I forget what it's called.
Speaker 5: It's like, I don't know if it's southernist. But in
Speaker 5: that movie Faces a Death, that's the one actual real
Speaker 5: death they show. It's a preacher who's like, I've got
Speaker 5: the power of God within me. The snakes won't hurt me,
Speaker 5: and this they killed him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well what if the snakes have the power of
Speaker 3: God in them too?
Speaker 4: That's true and that goes back to what you said
Speaker 4: about like.
Speaker 3: You gotta respect nature.
Speaker 5: Yeah, God and nature, the two and two like true
Speaker 5: things like everyone else, like, yeah, of a preacher that's
Speaker 5: just a total like Charlatan like you know, it's like
Speaker 5: it's like the atomic bomb versus a coughing baby.
Speaker 3: True.
Speaker 2: And that brings us to the end of this week's
Speaker 2: episode and a last to the end of season two
Speaker 2: Beauty Translated. I hope you enjoyed all of the conversations
Speaker 2: we had this time around. Thank you all so much
Speaker 2: for your support and listenership. I couldn't do this without
Speaker 2: all you bouties out there. Please continue to encourage everyone
Speaker 2: you know to listen to the show, because I believe
Speaker 2: that the more people who listen to these stories, the
Speaker 2: further down the evolutionary path to understanding we will become
Speaker 2: as a society. If you haven't already, please leave the
Speaker 2: podcast a rating and review over on Apple Podcasts. It
Speaker 2: would mean the world to me. And now this is goodbye,
Speaker 2: but only for a little while. I will be back
Speaker 2: for season three of Beauty Translated in the fall with
Speaker 2: more badass trans trailblazers. Thank you all so much, and
Speaker 2: until we meet again, stay beautiful. Beauty Translated is hosted
Speaker 2: by me Carmen Laurent and produced by Kurt Garon and
Speaker 2: Jessica Crinchitch, with production assistance from Jennifer Bassett Special thanks
Speaker 2: to Ali Perry and Ali Canter for their support. Our
Speaker 2: theme song is composed by Aaron Kaufman. Beauty Translated is
Speaker 2: proud to be part of the outspoken network from iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2: For more iHeart Podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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