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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with

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Speaker 2: former restaurnaut Mikes Mino in his book. His latest book

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Speaker 2: is called Moonshot and NASA Astronauts, A Guide to Achieving

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Speaker 2: the Impossible. You learned a lot when you went into space, Mike,

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Speaker 2: didn't you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I sure did, George. You know, I came into

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Speaker 3: the program. I was a civilian, and I learned so

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Speaker 3: much about teamwork and persistence and leadership in my years

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Speaker 3: at NASA, because that's what we needed. We needed a

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Speaker 3: way to work together and kind of guidelines. Takeaway seems

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Speaker 3: you could remember rules of engagement that would help us

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Speaker 3: be successful in our missions. And what I found was

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Speaker 3: those rules, those having that sort of culture, that attitude

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Speaker 3: was also very helpful in everyday life, whether you're working

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Speaker 3: in a cubicle or at home or dealing with your family.

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Speaker 3: A lot of those principles were very helpful.

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Speaker 2: Your work is very uplifting to a lot of people,

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Speaker 2: and you could tell by the way you wrote these

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Speaker 2: things with special guides about the thirty second rule, one

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Speaker 2: in a million is not zero and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: How how much of this did you know before you

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Speaker 2: went into space?

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Speaker 3: None of it mean, well, I learned it. I should

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Speaker 3: say there's a difference between becoming an astronaut and going

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Speaker 3: to space. It was six years of training before I

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Speaker 3: flew in space, so I would say I learned everything

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Speaker 3: except for the first chapter is about my persistence to

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Speaker 3: get to get the opportunity to become an astronaut, and

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Speaker 3: that was that. That first chapter is one in a million,

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Speaker 3: is not zero. Even if there's a slight chance or success,

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Speaker 3: you should hear it your best, because as long as

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Speaker 3: you try, there's a chance. But the next nine chapters

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Speaker 3: are things that I learned as an astronaut. So a

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Speaker 3: lot of it I learned before my first baselight and

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Speaker 3: was able to use those ideas, those rules, guidelines, lessons

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Speaker 3: to help me on my first base flight. And then

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Speaker 3: some are also learned after my first baselight. So all

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Speaker 3: of it was most of it, ninety percent of the

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Speaker 3: book was learned after becoming an astronaut.

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Speaker 2: What advice would you give people, Mike who have that

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Speaker 2: feeling of I can't do it, it just won't work

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Speaker 2: for me.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think you have to hang in there because

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Speaker 3: I think that success is just trying and even if

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Speaker 3: it doesn't work out, as long as you try, I

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Speaker 3: consider that to be a success. When I was after

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Speaker 3: my fourth application and I had an interview at second interview,

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Speaker 3: after I was able to get the medical disqualification I

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Speaker 3: had overturned, I was able to apply again and I

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Speaker 3: got another interview and I was waiting to hear, and

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Speaker 3: it was I interviewed. This was back in the interview

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Speaker 3: itself was in October of nineteen ninety five, and we

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Speaker 3: ended up getting the word the decisions were made and

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Speaker 3: told that all the candidates in April of ninety six.

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Speaker 3: But I remember going on a vacation with my family

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Speaker 3: in March of ninety six, and I was waiting to

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Speaker 3: hear what the result was going to be, and it

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Speaker 3: probably was not going to be good. You know this,

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Speaker 3: The odds are against you in this. But I felt

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Speaker 3: like I would just keep trying. And what I had

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Speaker 3: done in the meantime to help me be a better

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Speaker 3: candidate for the astronaut program. I had gotten my PhD

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Speaker 3: from MIT and Engineering. I had learned fly airplanes that

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Speaker 3: were a private private pilot's license. I had learned scuba dive.

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Speaker 3: I had that license, I was doing research in space,

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Speaker 3: I had experiments that had flown in space, and I

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Speaker 3: had a position as a faculty member at Georgia Tech.

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Speaker 3: So life was pretty good. And I remember thinking, well,

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Speaker 3: if I get rejected again, which is probably what's going

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Speaker 3: to happen, just because of this sheer odds that are

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Speaker 3: against you, I still was in a good place and

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Speaker 3: I would keep trying. But if it didn't happen, I

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Speaker 3: couldn't control that. But I ended up having these other

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Speaker 3: things that were really interesting in my life as a

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Speaker 3: result of the path that I was on. So I

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Speaker 3: think that if it's something you're really passionate about, you

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Speaker 3: owe it to yourself to give it a try. You

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Speaker 3: never know it may work out, and if it doesn't,

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Speaker 3: I think you'll find yourself in a better position than

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Speaker 3: when you started.

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Speaker 2: Michael. A year after you went into space on the

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Speaker 2: Space Shuttle Columbia, it disintegrated. It was a horrible situation.

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Speaker 2: I've got to ask you this, what through your mind

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Speaker 2: when you heard about that tragedy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a pretty bad day. I flew on

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Speaker 3: Space Shuttle Columbia in March of two thousand and two.

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Speaker 3: The next time Columbia went to space at the beginning

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Speaker 3: of the year of two thousand and three. It launched

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Speaker 3: in January, and on February first is when we lost

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Speaker 3: the Columbia and the crew. It was terrible to fight

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Speaker 3: the worst day of my life. It was the worst

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Speaker 3: day of my life, losing my seven friends and the

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Speaker 3: spaceship and and it was it was a horrible day,

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Speaker 3: it really was. But we were able to come back

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Speaker 3: from that. You know. The first thing we did was

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Speaker 3: was more in our friends and go to the memorials

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Speaker 3: and try to take care of the families. And then

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Speaker 3: then we started turning our attention in addition to doing that,

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Speaker 3: turning our attention to trying to get the Space Shuttle

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Speaker 3: to fly again. We you know, that the accident had

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Speaker 3: taken enough. We didn't want it to take any more.

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Speaker 3: We want we didn't want the whole space program to

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Speaker 3: go away, and we wanted to Shuttle to keep flying.

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Speaker 3: And and I'm really proud of the way we reacted

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Speaker 3: to the accident. It was horrible, but there was no

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Speaker 3: finger pointing. There was a pure investigation done that was

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Speaker 3: a very honest evaluation of what had happened. There was

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Speaker 3: plenty of blame to go around, but we stuck together

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Speaker 3: and we were able to get the program flying again

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Speaker 3: to finish the International Space Station construction with the Space

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Speaker 3: Shuttle and also at the service Double Space Telescope one

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Speaker 3: more time before the Shuttle program was retired in two

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Speaker 3: thousand and eleven.

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Speaker 2: Well, you folks are great people. I'll tell you that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you never know how you're going to

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Speaker 3: react to things when they happened. And I was working

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Speaker 3: after college before I went to grad school when the

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Speaker 3: Challenger accident happened, and that didn't deter what I wanted

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Speaker 3: to do. I wanted to still try to become an

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Speaker 3: astronaut and wanted to be a part of the program.

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Speaker 3: And when that accident, but I didn't know anybody. I

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Speaker 3: wasn't with NATSA. I was very removed from the program

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Speaker 3: at that point. But the second one, I knew everybody,

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Speaker 3: and I was guess I said, that was my spaceship

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Speaker 3: on my first flight, So it was really personal, but

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Speaker 3: it really didn't add any new information. It wasn't like

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Speaker 3: I didn't know it was dangerous. We all knew it

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Speaker 3: was dangerous and that these things can happen, so I

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Speaker 3: didn't add any new information. It just it was unfortunate

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Speaker 3: that what happened, of course, and it was a terrible day.

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Speaker 3: And but you know, it really didn't add any new information.

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Speaker 3: It just showed us that, yeah, this is a dangerous

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Speaker 3: business and you got to be as vigilant as possible. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: never let that happen again.

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Speaker 2: And we moved on as a nation, and we kept

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Speaker 2: moving on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So your book just came out, and inside of it

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Speaker 2: it talks about the thirty second rule. What is that?

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Speaker 3: Well, George, you know what. It's a way to deal

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Speaker 3: with your mistakes.

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Speaker 2: And which we all make.

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Speaker 3: Everyone makes mistakes. And what I would do when before

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Speaker 3: I was an astronaut, typically, if I made a mistake

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Speaker 3: and I was upset with myself, I would ruminate on it,

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Speaker 3: you know, for for hours or days or sometimes a

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Speaker 3: whole week, depending on what had happened, and just feel

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Speaker 3: bad about it and kind of be down and the

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Speaker 3: dumps and not really be engaged with life when that

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Speaker 3: was going on. When you're in space, you don't have

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Speaker 3: an hour or even a minute to spare down in

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Speaker 3: the dumps, not helping, not doing your job. And so

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Speaker 3: I would hear from my colleagues, from our instructors and

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Speaker 3: from the veteran astronauts that you have to let your

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Speaker 3: mistakes pass. You have to let your mistakes pass. I

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Speaker 3: was like, yeah, easy to say that, but it wasn't

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Speaker 3: easy for me to do. I would still ruminate a

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Speaker 3: bit until I learned the thirty second rule. One of

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Speaker 3: my crewmates, Megan MacArthur, told me about it, and she

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Speaker 3: had learned it from CJ. Stirkow, who was a Marine

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Speaker 3: Corps pilot in our office. That is when you make

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Speaker 3: a mistake, and you're going to make mistakes. So it's

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Speaker 3: not a question of eliminating mistakes, because that's not going

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Speaker 3: to happen. As careful as you are and as prepared

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Speaker 3: as you are, things are just going to happen. You're

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Speaker 3: going to make a mistakes. Sometimes it's your fault, sometimes

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Speaker 3: it's not, doesn't matter. You're going to make a mistake, right,

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Speaker 3: So the thing that you have to learn is how

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Speaker 3: to deal with them, and so you're going to be upset.

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Speaker 3: The thirty second l says give yourself thirty seconds of

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Speaker 3: remorse or thirty seconds of regret, and take that thirty

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Speaker 3: seconds and feel bad and beat yourself up. And call

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Speaker 3: yourself names. Don't vocalize any of this because you'll scare people.

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Speaker 3: Just keep it internal and beat yourself up, say I

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Speaker 3: can't believe I did that. I'm the worst astronaut in

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Speaker 3: the world, you know, whatever happened. And then coming out

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Speaker 3: of that thirty seconds, what I would do is, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I understand what happened. I'm going to learn from that mistake,

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Speaker 3: and I'm never going to let that happen again. And

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Speaker 3: now it's time to move on. And I found that

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Speaker 3: that internal rant of letting myself be mad at myself

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Speaker 3: for what I did, but instead of letting it last

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Speaker 3: for days, only let it last for thirty seconds, and

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Speaker 3: then it's time to put it in the past and move.

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Speaker 2: Forward and keep going straight.

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Speaker 3: Keep going straight, and just keep going.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, when you're in space, does it do anything

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Speaker 2: to you spiritually?

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Speaker 3: I think from what I've known, its storage is that

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Speaker 3: it being if you're a spiritual person or not. I

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Speaker 3: think it's it. I never I never saw a change,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's a perspective change. Mine didn't necessarily, But

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Speaker 3: I think you interpret the world with with those types

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Speaker 3: of with whether you're spiritual or not. That's the way.

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Speaker 3: I think it helps you interpret the world, So you know,

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Speaker 3: I would you know, I consider myself to be a

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Speaker 3: spiritual person, so when I looked at the earth, I'll

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Speaker 3: maybe interpret it more from a spiritual perspective or from uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, having a God in my life, or you know,

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Speaker 3: you can look at it that way, or another person

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Speaker 3: who is maybe not a believer and not a spiritual

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Speaker 3: person would look at it and interpret it differently. But

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Speaker 3: I don't think it all of a sudden changes. I

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Speaker 3: haven't seen it changed the way anyone's thought. It didn't

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Speaker 3: change where I thought about things. It just helped me

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Speaker 3: perceive what I was looking at. And I think that

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Speaker 3: most people, and at least a peace people that I'm

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Speaker 3: known as an astronauts, had a spiritual component to them,

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Speaker 3: not necessarily religious. They may not believe in a certain religion,

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Speaker 3: but I think they did sort of see things in

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Speaker 3: a spiritual way, whether or not they believed God or

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Speaker 3: that was maybe something else a religious a religious inclination

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Speaker 3: or not. But I think most people do have some

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Speaker 3: sort of spiritual component to them, and I don't think

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Speaker 3: it necessarily changes in my opinion, I didn't see any

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Speaker 3: of that, but I definitely see it. That's how you would.

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Speaker 3: You can interpret differently based on your belief system.

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Speaker 2: Michael, I'm in awe with the universe just on this planet.

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Speaker 2: I can only imagine what it's like to be in

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Speaker 2: space looking around my gosh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well it's a different perspective.

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Speaker 2: It truly is? It, truly is. Did you ever get

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Speaker 2: a chance to meet the late astronaut Neil Armstrong, first

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Speaker 2: man on the Moon?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I did. I met him. I first met him

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Speaker 3: right after I became an astronaut, first week at NASA

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Speaker 3: and had a chance to meet him then, and and

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Speaker 3: several times after that as well. And I got to

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Speaker 3: know his sons, Rick and Mark, very nice guys, and

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Speaker 3: he was he was very bit of a hero. Every

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Speaker 3: time I met him. Every conversation we had, or anything

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Speaker 3: he might have told me, just me everything I learned

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Speaker 3: about him from from his from his his friend the

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Speaker 3: people he worked with, from his colleagues back in the holidays.

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Speaker 3: It just increased my admiration for him. He was a

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Speaker 3: very very shy, very humble person, never exploited the opportunity

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Speaker 3: had I was very much a person that would give

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Speaker 3: credit to others. The Apollo eleven patch is a very

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Speaker 3: unique patch, the space patch that they that they wore

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Speaker 3: and he designed. It's the only patch. It's the only

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Speaker 3: space mission patch out of all however, many problem around

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Speaker 3: two hundred or so in existence, including my two Polloll

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Speaker 3: eleven is the only one that doesn't have the names

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Speaker 3: of the crew on it. It just has an Eagle

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Speaker 3: landing on the on the Moon and it says Apollo

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Speaker 3: eleven and Neil Armstrong and his crew did that. So

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Speaker 3: they they wouldn't take the credit. They wanted the credit

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Speaker 3: to be focused on on others who made that happen.

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Speaker 3: It's just an amazing guy, very much about doing his

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Speaker 3: job and getting it right and doing the right thing

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Speaker 3: and not getting distracted, and just an amazing person to

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Speaker 3: have accomplished what he accomplished and yet be as humble

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Speaker 3: as he was. I think quite remarkable.

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Speaker 2: What should like to shake the hands of the first

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Speaker 2: person on the moon?

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Speaker 3: He's good, it was cool, it's great, it was here.

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Speaker 3: You know. This was one of the really uh exciting

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Speaker 3: benefits of becoming an astronaut is that I all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden I was kind of part of this club

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Speaker 3: with these guys, and I got to know not just

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Speaker 3: Neil but Alan Bean I write about him in my

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Speaker 3: book was became a mentor, very dear friend of mine.

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Speaker 3: Charlie Duke is a good friend of mine. He's still alive.

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Speaker 3: He's one of the twelve that walked on the moon.

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Speaker 3: He was He's the one of the four that are left.

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Speaker 3: Only four of those guys are left by just sort

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Speaker 3: Charlie a couple of weeks ago. And Harrison Schmidt. I've

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Speaker 3: gotten to know him as well, the last person to

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Speaker 3: walk on the moon. So it's, uh, it's kind of

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Speaker 3: cool when you have you idolize these guys as a kid,

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Speaker 3: and then you chance to grow up and kind of

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Speaker 3: following their footsteps and and get to know them and

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Speaker 3: find out that you know, they're interested in getting to

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Speaker 3: know you and what you're what you're doing in space,

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Speaker 3: and it's it's just just been a pleasure, a real

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Speaker 3: honor to get to know these guys and and and

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Speaker 3: you know, Jeene Kranz and the other the other flight

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Speaker 3: directors and other people involved in the program. They're all

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Speaker 3: getting old. Now I'm getting old too.

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Speaker 2: We're all doing that a lot older than me.

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Speaker 3: So we're we're lucky that a few of them are

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Speaker 3: still around, but you know they are getting older. But

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Speaker 3: it really was but just just a pleasure to get

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Speaker 3: a chance to meet Neil Armstrong and some of these

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Speaker 3: other guys that were from the Apollo the Apollo program.

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Speaker 2: I shook the hands of number two on the moon,

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Speaker 2: Buzz Aldram. Yeah, it was on the Larry. He's still there,

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Speaker 2: he's still hanging.

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Speaker 1: In there, still lives.

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Speaker 2: He's a tough He never tell him he didn't go

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Speaker 2: to the Moon. That's for sure.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't. I know they went. I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: debate that with those guys, that's for sure.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it crazy some people who just don't think we

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Speaker 2: went to the moon?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we have. You know, we need to

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Speaker 3: be worried about other things. They it's an incredible accomplishment

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Speaker 3: and we need to we need to honor it in

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Speaker 3: that question.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely accomplishment.

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