WEBVTT - Pfizer Booster Shot Restores Covid Protection 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.159 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 analyst in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.479 Bloomberg Business Weekend iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.439 can also listen to our radio show at two pm 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.400 Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.879 search Bloomberg Global News. Watching some of the headlines, I 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:35.600 have been messaging some of our team about this whole 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.639 mix and match idea fiser though in bion Tech did 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:40.480 come out saying a booster shout of their Kevin nineteen 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:44.720 vaccine restored full protection. They did a large study results 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:46.519 that are likely to bolster the argument for giving a 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.319 third dose more widely in the population. We're also keeping 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.080 an eye on what's happening in the UK because the 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.480 country reported the most new cases since July there and 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.520 they have just under seventy the population vaccinated. Right, so 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:00.400 you're trying to Okay, so how is that? And let's 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:02.640 not forget we've got a palle of experts advising the 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:05.080 U S c d C meeting today to talk about 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:07.160 booster shots, to talk about mix and match so we'll 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:09.520 watch for some headlines on that. Let's get to it though, 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.120 with Dr g G. Gronville. She's Senior Scholar at the 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.720 Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security and Associate Professor in 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.600 the Department of Environmental Health and Engineering at the Johns 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:20.880 Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.360 founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. She is an 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:27.479 immunologist by training, an author, and she joins us once 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.440 again from Baltimore. Dr Gronville, good to have you back 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.959 here on Bloomberg Radio. Help me make sense of some 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:35.600 of the headlines that I expect that we're going to 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.400 get pretty soon, and especially when it comes to mixing 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:40.959 and matching vaccines, especially when it comes to getting a 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.320 booster what's the guided you guys are coming to at 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.760 Johns Hopkins or concluding that should be the guidance? Sure, 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:53.760 So yesterday UM, the FDA announced that UM they that 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:57.360 mixing and matching is the way to go. They didn't 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:02.080 uh state of preference for a particular order of vaccine, 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.520 like say, if you had J J vaccine, which which 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:10.360 booster you should choose? UM. The panel that's meeting today 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.519 may get more specific than that and make some more 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:18.040 recommendations along that those lines. But right now, UM, it's 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:21.679 looking like at least you can choose which of the 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.799 three even if there is no recommendation. Is it a 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.200 little confusing for someone like me and Tim that we're 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:29.040 thinking about the booster so that when we go to 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:31.320 sign up, is that then places are going to say, 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:33.320 here's what we're offering, you know, I mean, I'm just 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.040 thinking about the logistics of this, because then if you 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:37.680 are if you want to go mix and match, then 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:39.480 you want to know if you're going to go somewhere, 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:44.000 what what vaccine you're going to get. Right right now 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:47.520 you can you can learn where your vaccine site and 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.320 what they're offering. UM. If you go to vaccine stack 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:54.000 of UM you can or even you can see in 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:57.200 the advertisement of whatever pharmacy you're planning on getting vaccinated 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.320 that they will tell you, UM, if there's if they're 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:05.519 offering fiser that day or maderna or J and J UM. 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.560 So you do you do, You have to ask sometimes, 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:12.160 but but that information is definitely available to you. What 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:14.400 was going on before is that you know there was 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.880 data that was showing that a third shot, if you've 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:21.280 got the fiser maderna, for example, a third shot would 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:25.400 be beneficial. And especially if you had the J and 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.880 J vaccine, that a second shot of an MR and 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:32.240 A vaccine. So either fiser maderna would be a good idea. 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.600 And so people were going ahead and doing that ahead 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:39.960 of any recommendation. So this will hopefully make those logistics easier. 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:42.560 So what would you advise people who right now are 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.320 getting emails from wherever they got their first two shots 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:47.360 that say, hey, we are open for boosters if you 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:49.760 want to come and get a booster. Should they wait 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:52.120 for official guidance, should they wait for more guidance or 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:53.640 should they just go ahead and get it done and 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.240 wait for optionality so they can decide if they want 0:03:56.280 --> 0:04:00.680 to do mix and match. Um, so a few places 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.880 are going ahead ahead. I'm not quite sure why they 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.640 They are ahead of the FDA and CDC on that, 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.200 but um, I think by the end of this week, 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.800 you will have that option. UM, the data is pretty 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.480 clear for people who had J and J vaccine to 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:22.800 go ahead and get a fisor Maderna booster. UM. Other 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.680 than that, it's not UM, it doesn't seem to be 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:30.440 that that. UM, it's great a difference, Okay, because that's 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:32.599 you know, we're we're being really specific because we're wondering 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:34.400 these are questions that we were talking about last night. 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.360 I mean, I've I've hit my six months from my 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.920 second shot, and I'm getting you know, bombarded, to be 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.279 quite honest, by emails of saying come get your booster, 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.360 and I'm not pretty sure that I meet all the criteria. 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.440 But I'm also thinking, you know, I'm trying to figure 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:51.320 out what to do, right I. UM, I haven't gotten 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.279 bombarded by emails, so I don't know what that says 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:56.680 about the pharmacy UM that I go to. Sorry, I 0:04:56.720 --> 0:05:02.960 think get my original uh show from a mass vaccination site. 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:06.360 So maybe that's why, UM, the follow up hasn't been there. 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.120 But UM, but yes, I think, UM, for people who 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:12.880 had Visor and Maderna, there doesn't seem to be much 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:16.320 of a difference to get another visor and maderna mixer 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.960 match or whatever. I think it's important for people to 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:23.880 remember that, you know, these are different approaches, different vaccine companies, 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:28.279 but they are still targeting the same virus. Are trying 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:31.159 to stimulate your immune system to the same um the 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.359 same you know, the same virus, the same part of 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:36.840 the virus. And so uh, there there wasn't I wasn't 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.680 expecting to see much of a difference between these UM 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.120 mixing matches. Well, Dr Gronwell, in the last minute that 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:44.760 we have with you, help us understand what's going on 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.360 in the UK because for the first time since July 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:51.440 COVID nineteen cases in the UK top fifty country certainly 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:55.440 seeing a surge there. What's going on. So it's always 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.440 hard to know exactly what's going on because you know, 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:02.159 there's public health is especially as we have all seen 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.000 with COVID. Uh, you know, there are lots of different 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:09.919 mitigation measures that are very unevenly applied. UM. But I 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:15.920 the vaccination rate for younger people is not good and UM, 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.680 and so they haven't they haven't. It's even less than 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:22.320 the United States, and and so that is where a 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:26.120 lot of the cases are coming from. And so we 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.960 all need to do better for younger populations. UM, because 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.520 they have they incurred more risks from COVID than they 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:37.560 certainly believe that they do. UM and uh. But you know, 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:42.080 hopefully we will see some improvement over those numbers. UM 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:45.880 and hopefully next week when children they're see starting to 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.159 get vaccinated in the coming weeks. Got it, we gotta run. Hey, 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.680 thank you so much, as always, Dr Gig Gronville or 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.279 John Hopkins Center for Health Security at the Bloomberg School 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:58.800 of Public Health. You're listening to Bloomberg Radio. This is 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.760 Bloomberg Business Where with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:07.159 Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well the Bloomberg Big Take today. 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.360 It's also I think it's still the most read story 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.800 on the Bloomberg in the past eight hours at The 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.080 story also find online at Bloomberg Business Week. It's about 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.240 the hidden ways the ultra rich are passing well to 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:21.080 their heirs tax free. It's a great story about Phil 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.240 Knight and yes you know him as the co founder 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.239 of Nike. UM. We've got our own in house tax expert, 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.160 Ben Stepherman, his personal finance editor at Bloomberg News. He's 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.120 with us in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio, Ben. It 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.480 is just a great read. I actually got to read 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.520 it last night on my way home from the airport. Uh, 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.120 what is film Knight doing? Explain exactly what he's doing 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:45.920 with a gret Well, what we really haven't had a 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:51.120 view like this ever into how billionaires escaped the state tax. 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.600 And there's really nothing extraordinary about what film Knight is doing. 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:56.840 It's completely legal. Um. But what we've been able to 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.200 do is pull together some filings and really true prack 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.880 them over the years with help from Ander's Melon and 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.920 Devon and Devin Penalty in my colleagues, and we've really 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.320 been able to show how these tools, there's three or 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.160 four of them, that you put them together, these loopholes 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:17.040 and billions of dollars can be trans transferred tax free 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:20.000 to your heirs. Um. This is you know, the state 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:22.800 tax and gift tax. It's a related thing. They're supposed 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:26.440 to toll basically on every generation and it's supposed to 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:31.280 be something that fights inequality. Well, I think we could 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:33.640 show in this story that it's basically an optional tax. Now, 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:35.160 if you hire the right advisors, you don't have to 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.320 pay it, and it's legal, and he's not alone in 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.680 doing it totally. Joe Weber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week, 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.120 here with us as well. So how specifically do I 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:47.280 do this when I leave? We're taking this would be 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:49.079 a good problem to have. I don't think you have 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:54.560 a joke. So you never know what allowed us to 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:59.280 gain you know insights here that you know previously all 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.000 this stuff has been them, But like as you said that, 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.680 we haven't seen anybody bring it all together like this. 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.880 So what helped us get that bigger picture? Usually these 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.000 things are happening. We know these things are happening because 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:10.559 I've talked to the advisors who set them up, but 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:13.000 we don't know the dollars and cents attached them because 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:16.440 when these wealthy people do it, it's all secret. What 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:18.880 is different in this case is that Phil knight Is 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.360 is an officer. Well, he's a former chairman of and 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.480 he's the founder of Nike, a publicly traded company, and 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:30.240 um the company is now effectively controlled by a trust 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.440 that's controlled by his son, who's also on the board. 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.040 And because of that, they both have the requirement to 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:40.400 report their stakes in various entities that they control um 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:42.560 that have Nike stock in them. And so we've been 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:46.920 able to track all these trusts and um other transactions 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.240 that have have involved Nike shares over the last twelve years, 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.520 and and that really allowed us to tell the story. Okay, 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.080 so again I'm curious, if I walk out of here, 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:59.400 how do I how do? But okay, so not really 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:04.040 but not wrong. Um So, if Congress we're going to 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.760 do something, what would they do? The fixes are just 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:10.840 the simplest things like that. It's just a paragraph of 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.400 text in the tax law that the problem is not 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:18.080 closing these loopholes. It's um you know, legally, it's just 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.600 the political will to do it. You know. Basically what 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:22.440 we have a situation we have a stalemate over the 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.199 state tax where the Republicans have been trying to repeal it. 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.719 They really hate the idea of taxing uh wealth at 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.360 death and they call it the dex death tax. They've 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.840 been trying to repeal it. Under Trump, they just kind 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:35.600 of gave up and they said, hey, we're just gonna 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:39.320 let it be and allow these loopholes to exist. And 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:44.520 and therefore it basically becomes this optional tax for the wealthy. 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.120 So um, but you're asking how do you do it? 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.920 How do these things work? What's the common denominator? Really, 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.000 what this is all about is making your wealth look 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:58.760 smaller than it really is. Noble. Yeah, so, um, how 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.520 does night do that? Well, let's say you hand you 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:05.360 hand your airs a really valuable asset, and then they 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:09.439 hand you back and I owe you. And according to 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:13.280 the law, no actual money was transferred hands there, nothing 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.079 that wasn't a gift. It's just we're just swapping assets, 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:18.120 except the asset that I have is an I owe you. 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:21.199 It's not a normal transaction to any smart business person 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.360 whatever really make with a counterparty. But you can set 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.360 up these relationships with trust your heirs or with trust 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.760 controlled by your heirs, and they're legal, and it would 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:33.719 be very easy to ban these these deals. And as 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.320 a result, then in terms of taxation, how does that 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.480 kind of Well, let's say I give you what's in 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.080 this case, I give you Nike stock. Then Nike stock 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:46.040 goes up a thousand percent. All those gains can go 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.880 to your heirs and they're these special uh TOI mentioned grats. 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.839 There's these special tools called grats, which are really kind 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.480 of granta retained annuity trust. Yes, and and they work 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.840 a little bit like what I just described. But the 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:00.880 thing about a grat is if let's say I give 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.959 you an asset and the investment value goes down over time, 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.240 don't worry about it. Just scrap up that piece of paper, 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:10.240 ripping in half, and you can start over. Nothing ever happened. 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.640 You said, some of the ultra rich open one every month. Yeah. Yeah, 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:15.880 it's just you keep rolling the dice, rolling the dice, 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:17.679 rolling the dice, hope that you can and you don't 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.080 have to put it, put almost any investment in these things, um, 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.600 and just hope for the best. How much revenue do 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:25.280 we know? Do we know how much revenue the US 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.079 government misses as a result of a loophole such as this. 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:33.600 Put it this way, Um, only seventeen billion dollars, which 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.559 maybe sounds like a lot of money, but only seventeen 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:37.839 billion dollars comes in from the estate and gift tax. 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:43.640 There are Um, they're literally almost to the twenty richest 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:48.880 Americans have two trillion dollars almost so um the amount 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:53.080 that this should be coming in from this tax if 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.880 it was actually impost on every transfer of wealthy of 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:58.679 the top one point one percent, it would be a 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.320 lot lot more. Yeah. Uh And and to that end, 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.280 we do we have any sense I mean, Phil Knight 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:07.120 is a very uh prominent one that the story basically 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.160 is built around. Do we have a sense of how 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:12.760 many other billionaires might be using this exact same playbook? Um, 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:16.040 I would hazard to guess of almost every single one 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.280 are are using something that we describe in this story. 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.160 Maybe not all of them, maybe not in a sophisticated way. 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.760 The thing is Phil phil Knight could have transferred even 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.760 more money than he did, but he has these charitable intentions. 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:29.680 He says he's going to give most of his wealth 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:33.360 away eventually. So because if you're going to give money 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.000 to charity, it just becomes a lot easier to avoid 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.160 the taxes. And then that's intentional, that's not necessarily a loophole. 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:42.480 It's just the government wanted to encourage people to to 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.280 give to charity. And again, though, I mean, I feel 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.960 like it doesn't sound like there's any momentum to change it. 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.320 Well or is there? Yeah, we might have just created it. 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:56.160 We'll see. The House Democrats have a proposal, and um, 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.040 in a lot of ways they've they've scaled back Biden's 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.600 proposal tax proposals, but the one exception is this area 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:04.600 of the estate tax, and they are actually trying to 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:06.319 close a couple of these loopoles. It's gonna say. You 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.760 can see the headlines and the controversy over not doing something. Hey, Ben, 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:11.840 you and the team reached out to Nike and Phil Knight. 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:15.600 Any response. Um, what they've made quear is that all 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:19.080 these plans are integrated with his philanthropic goals. But no, 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.520 they didn't give us many more details than we then. 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.440 We had all these details in the story came from 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.600 our own reporting. You do it so well. Thank you. 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:29.840 You really do the details. Um, And as we said, 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.000 it's the most read story on the Bloomberg Find it 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:33.760 at business week dot com. I gotta go. I gotta go. 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:37.480 Set up my grap Joe. Maybe we can share lawyer 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:41.720 give me that and you know I'll reach out to 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.960 you from a beach. Sounds so simple, all right, We 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.040 gotta run, Joel. Thank you so much. Jill Webber, Editor 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.680 Bloomberg business Week, Ben Steve Verman, personal finance editor at 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.960 Bloomberg News. As we said, find it online at business 0:14:53.000 --> 0:15:00.440 week dot com. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Is Week 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:04.400 with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.680 Bloomberg Radio. Alright, so top of mine at the Milk 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.280 and Institute Global Conference. Who had so many conversations there 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:12.840 on the West coast. We've got our TV team out 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:19.120 there at the coast of outside Los Angeles. Long be right? 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.880 Just about the supply chain problems? Yeah, I know, I know. 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.040 The synapsies aren't there the ports, the two ports are 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:30.160 very close together, nice together, and together they do account 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.200 for a great portion of the traffic. The common theme 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.120 here is supply chain disruptions and constraints, and we see 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.000 it big time as companies report their latest quarterly updates 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.200 and as our Josh winn Grove reports, the clock is 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.520 definitely ticking in the efforts by the Biden administration to 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.400 smooth out the bottlenecks. Their tool chest, to Tim a 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.080 little bit limited. Josh wyn Grove, his White House correspondent 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.840 at Bloomberg News. He's with us from the Bloomberg studio 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.680 in Washington, d C. Josh, what power does the Biden 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.640 administration have? What tools do they have in order to 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.200 help fix this law? Jem Well I guess depends on 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:04.480 you at on who you ask, But overall it's sort 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.480 of like Joe Biden is a dad driving a station 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.880 way and you know, threatening to pull this car over 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.880 right away if you yeah, people don't behave like they 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.920 have got this. Everyone's calling it a bully pulpit power, 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.280 which is another way of saying, I suppose name and shame. 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.880 They can either be the referee, they can get people 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.600 in a room, crack some heads together if needed. And 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.400 that's sort of the approach they're taking, and that's what 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.120 led to that deal to move these ports. Seven. Of 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.560 course that is only marginally uh, making a difference and 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.280 difference until we get more other things going on. Every 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.520 time Josh we hear that, we're like, what do you mean, 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:42.720 why weren't they already? Like what is that? Well, there's 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.240 no point in picking up a thing at three am 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.360 if therehouse you're taking them two is closed, you know, 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:49.520 and the warehouses are closed at that hour. And so 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.240 these truck drivers, it's important, these truck port truck drivers 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.880 have a raw deal. I mean, it is not a 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.920 not a coveted position. And so we're wondering, well, why 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.360 aren't there enough truck drivers. Well, gee, they're quitting because 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:02.760 the pay and conditions are crumbing, and they're even crumbing 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:04.720 or when things are backed up because they're sitting there unpaid, 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:06.960 waiting for their things. They talked about that a little bit, Josh, 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.040 because that's something I learned reading your story that you 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:11.520 that that is available at Bloomberg dot com and on 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:13.720 the terminal. It's it's not like the it's not like 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.679 a trucking job for another firm. These are not unionized 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.600 and um, like you said, pretty crumbing. Yeah. Then there's 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:23.840 been a bunch of suggestions put forward by various industries, 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.639 you know, either long running regulatory battles that they're picking, 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.159 the supply chain crisis is a new sort of front 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:31.720 to wage these long running battles. But the only thing 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.119 the teamsters have said, getting to your question, Tim, is 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.680 this is they think Joe Biden should help these guys 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.760 unionize these drivers excuse me, unionized, And Joe Biden hasn't 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.040 said anything about that, so we'll see what that happens. 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.320 But essentially, they are the bottom rung of the ladder 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:48.280 of the trucking industry. The pay is not great, the 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.280 trucks are driving, or you know in some cases, you know, 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.520 they're very thin margins. Shall we say, you know, let's 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:56.720 let's you know, they're they're barely holding on. This is 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:58.840 it's a rough job. And if they can get a 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.560 job sort of either a unionized place or you're working 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.119 for a bigger company with better conditions, more predictable hours, 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.040 they're going to take it. It's no surprise. Help me, 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:10.240 help me though. Support drivers, how are they different from 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.360 the long haul drivers we see on the road when 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.560 we're on a highway drive or something. What's the difference. Well, 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:19.080 they're all treated or typically treated as independent contractors, and 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.600 that means that they get paid either by the mile 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:23.520 or by the shipment, but is opposed by the hour. 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:25.919 So when they're sitting there waiting to pick up you 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:27.600 know it's there, it's on their time, it's not on 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:29.639 They're not gonna paid for that, and that's not great, right, 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:31.760 And so there's not a lot of incentive for someone 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.080 to hurry them up there they're so they have no 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:36.520 choice but to sit there and wait for their their 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.880 their container, and when they get it, they we don't 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:40.879 have enough chassis, which of course is a little essentially 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.800 trailers that pull these these things around and you know, 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.040 you go every step down the ladder, it gets harder. 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:48.200 The warehouses are full, the yards are full. We don't 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:52.880 have enough of these containers. We don't have containers going 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.840 back full. In a lot of cases, ships pile up 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.600 empty containers and you know, hahull butt back to Asia 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:00.600 if you will, because they can get more money for 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:02.199 filling them there and bring them back to the u S. 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.080 So a lot of moving parts on this, but it 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.200 is a tough one. Tough one to parts in terms 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.680 of certainly quick fixes, but even structural fixes will take 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.200 a long time. So they're different from an Amazon driver 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.400 that we see on the road or a Walmart driver 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:17.240 that we see on the road, although many of those drivers, 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.640 I'm sure in California used to maybe maybe had come 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:24.080 up through the ranks of being a port port truck driver. 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.240 I mean, it is a it's it's it's rough. It 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:30.040 is the bottom rung. They have not been treated particularly well. 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.120 And that you know now they're sort of even even 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.119 getting a rare deal because when things are slowing up, 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.440 the only people are person not getting paid to sit 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:40.879 there in the gridlock is that truck driver. The you know, 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.439 the dock workers getting paid, you know, the railway workers 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.040 getting paid. The truck driver isn't getting paid well, Josh. 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.200 As a result of all these challenges that you're describing, 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:52.520 shipping prices have just rise dramatically. It now costs as 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:54.960 much as twenty five thousand dollars to import a fort 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:57.919 container from Asia. That's up from less than two thousand 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:03.000 dollars two years ago, more than ten x in price 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.440 of shipping. So politically, where does where does the president stand? 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.680 I mean, you see Republicans coming in with with uh 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.919 going full full court press on Biden because of these 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.199 rising prices. Yeah, and they're you know, tying it in 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.760 with the inflation issues we're seeing and that that is 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.600 of course expected. I mean you're like, why am I 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:22.359 talking to a white this reporter about this is because 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.080 it's becoming a problem for Joe Biden, you know, And 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.760 it's that and so we're gonna see if he can 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:29.720