Speaker 1: And now my mic back, you're like that.
Speaker 2: You can strike waters from headquarters behind him.
Speaker 1: And now if you are just tuning into civic cipher,
Speaker 1: I am your host of Ramsey's job.
Speaker 3: He is Jah, I am q Ward. You are listening
Speaker 3: to civic ciphers.
Speaker 1: Indeed, keep sticking around because we are still doing our
Speaker 1: thug fizzle up here. We're gonna talk about forgiveness in
Speaker 1: the black community, and we're gonna use Will Smith as
Speaker 1: an example. I I'm really excited to talk about that
Speaker 1: also far away black history fact. We're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: a guy named Solomon Sir Jones, a name that you
Speaker 1: might not be familiar with, but this is a man
Speaker 1: that preserved a not insignificant amount of Black history and
Speaker 1: his name needs to be mentioned, and why the history
Speaker 1: he preserved needs to be mentioned as well, so that
Speaker 1: you understand and can appreciate a little bit more about
Speaker 1: your black brothers and sisters. And that's what we're here
Speaker 1: to do. But first and foremost, I think it's about
Speaker 1: time that we teach you a new way to become
Speaker 1: a better ally baba. How does that sound cute? Shall
Speaker 1: we we shall so today's baba become a better ally
Speaker 1: sponsored by the Black Information Network Daily Podcast. You can
Speaker 1: check out Black Information Network Daily Podcast on iHeart dot
Speaker 1: com or through the iHeartRadio app. Now, this story comes
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Speaker 1: check our Twitter or our Facebook at Civic Cipher to
Speaker 1: get some cool gift ideas and at the same time
Speaker 1: support a black business and that way a black business
Speaker 1: and that way you can become a better ally. All right,
Speaker 1: moving on forgiveness. All right, so I'm going to share
Speaker 1: a quick story. I also host a podcast. Q joins
Speaker 1: me very often on the show The Black Information Network
Speaker 1: Daily Podcast. And then I have a special version of
Speaker 1: that show that I put out from time to time whenever.
Speaker 1: My producer, Chris leves Me called one More Thing. And
Speaker 1: some months ago I had a one More Thing installment
Speaker 1: where I talked about the Will Smith apology. Right, So
Speaker 1: this is after the Oscar slap. He was he got
Speaker 1: a camera and it was like a newsroom in the
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, and he just kind of spoke to
Speaker 1: the camera for a few minutes and apologized to everyone,
Speaker 1: in particular to Chris Rock and his family. And I
Speaker 1: saw that, and I saw that he owned his mistake.
Speaker 1: He acknowledged that he hurt Chris Rock above all else.
Speaker 1: He heard his fans, he heard casual you know, viewers
Speaker 1: of the show here at the Academy. You know, he
Speaker 1: stole a night that was so special to so many
Speaker 1: people because of his behavior. Right, he acknowledged that, and
Speaker 1: from what I understand or what I recall of that,
Speaker 1: he committed to trying to be a better man and
Speaker 1: doing better in the future. Right. And then of course
Speaker 1: he says, you know, Chris, whenever you're ready to talk,
Speaker 1: I'm here, right, not continuing to you know, harp on
Speaker 1: his name or anything like that. But listen, man, I
Speaker 1: was wrong. When you're ready, I'm here, let me make
Speaker 1: it right. You know, this is the energy that he
Speaker 1: gave up. I'm not quoting him. I want to make
Speaker 1: sure that that's clear. And so I had to make
Speaker 1: an episode because I saw that, and I saw people
Speaker 1: saying some some stuff that I didn't really love. People
Speaker 1: were like, that's not an apology or a man he deserves,
Speaker 1: you know, blah blah blah. We need to we need
Speaker 1: to stop watching you know that sort of stuff. Right,
Speaker 1: And you know, admittedly a lot of these comments come
Speaker 1: from the internet, but the Internet is a real thing.
Speaker 1: It is. We can't pretend like it's not. And you know,
Speaker 1: part of the reason, we'll get to it later. But
Speaker 1: part of the reason Will Smith said that he lost
Speaker 1: his cool in the moment where he ended up slapping
Speaker 1: Chris Rock was because of in part at least because
Speaker 1: he had endured so much online abuse because of his
Speaker 1: marriage and some of the goings on in his marriage, right,
Speaker 1: and it just became more than he could handle. I'm
Speaker 1: not making excuses for that man. That man is not
Speaker 1: making excuses for himself. Okay, be clear about that. Anyway,
Speaker 1: So he does his apology and I look at this,
Speaker 1: and I look at the comments, and I'm like, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, what more do we want from a person
Speaker 1: if they've done something wrong? You know, Here's what I did.
Speaker 1: Here's how it made you feel. Here's what I'm going
Speaker 1: to do in the future. Beyond that, what more do
Speaker 1: we want? Right? Are people supposed to be born perfect?
Speaker 1: Are people supposed to be born and then not make mistakes?
Speaker 1: Or let me ask another question, Are people simply the
Speaker 1: worst thing that they've ever done? I think you would say, no,
Speaker 1: that's not true anymore than people are simply the best
Speaker 1: thing that they've done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but most people would say that with regard to themselves. Sure,
Speaker 3: and were talking about me, we're the best lawyers in
Speaker 3: the world. We're talking about you. We become judge justice,
Speaker 3: thank you, right, we become We're going to tell you
Speaker 3: all the things that you did wrong and all the
Speaker 3: punishment you deserve for them. But when we're talking about ourselves,
Speaker 3: we're going to explain to you, marginalize, justify, make excuses
Speaker 3: for all of our wrongs. Because of course there was
Speaker 3: a reason. I'm not just a bad person, right, right,
Speaker 3: So all that context, all that nuance, and all that
Speaker 3: color exists when I'm talking about me. When I'm talking
Speaker 3: about you, you're just awful ramses and you need to
Speaker 3: be able to own and accept that.
Speaker 1: So I love that you said that, because they're in life,
Speaker 1: the double standard and dare I say the hypocrisy that
Speaker 1: we all need to come to terms with right And
Speaker 1: I think that we this show exists to try to
Speaker 1: create a little bit more empathy in our conversations and
Speaker 1: our interactions and so forth. And I think as an
Speaker 1: additional babba, I would challenge you if you can see
Speaker 1: attacks online and you feel like that person is going
Speaker 1: through it better than than me, but you don't feel
Speaker 1: like the attacks are entirely warranted, maybe speak up.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Will Smith says something in his interview with Trevenau which
Speaker 1: we'll get to, but he says, you never know what
Speaker 1: a person's going through. And I know that this what
Speaker 1: we're trying to do is to discussed black forgiveness, and
Speaker 1: I will bring it home. But I do believe that
Speaker 1: forgiveness to err is human right to forgive divine. So
Speaker 1: this is not just a black issue. I think that
Speaker 1: in black circles, especially with black men, our mental health
Speaker 1: has been addressed more and more in modern years, particularly
Speaker 1: because of people like Charlemagne bringing it out into the
Speaker 1: open so we can discuss it. How do we feel
Speaker 1: is our mind? Is our brain lying to us? You know?
Speaker 1: I used to think because of bad information. I used
Speaker 1: to think that I don't even want to go into it,
Speaker 1: but I used to think really bad things about black people.
Speaker 1: And I thought that I was bad because I as
Speaker 1: a black person. Right, And that's as much as I'll
Speaker 1: give right now, because I don't feel like crying on
Speaker 1: this show. But I had to grow up with that.
Speaker 3: Right, we'd be tearing up on this like crying again,
Speaker 3: you mean, right, right exactly, we'd be in this thing.
Speaker 1: But I had to grow up with that, right and
Speaker 1: you know, the self hat you know, we talked about
Speaker 1: self hatred in the first half of the show with
Speaker 1: a lot of the black white supremacist. Now, obviously I
Speaker 1: didn't get nowhere near that far gone, but I did
Speaker 1: recognize that I didn't. I wish that I wasn't me.
Speaker 1: Why would I be born and have consciousness? Why would
Speaker 1: I be born this person? What did I do to
Speaker 1: deserve this? How come I can't have a happy story
Speaker 1: where my family came on the Mayflower? Why did my
Speaker 1: family have to be slaves? How can I be proud
Speaker 1: of that? And then everyone I see that looks like
Speaker 1: me is poor and crying and they don't have food
Speaker 1: and nobody. You know what I'm saying. And I'm from confidence,
Speaker 1: So my experience is not universal among black people, but
Speaker 1: I had a real childhood.
Speaker 3: It may not be universal.
Speaker 1: It's not uncommon though.
Speaker 3: But it's definitely not uncountable that most Black people in
Speaker 3: this country, even those who have reached the pinnacle of
Speaker 3: success and wealth, they're at most a generation removed from
Speaker 3: the exact story that you told.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? That not great brand, but
Speaker 1: just grandma. Yeah. Doctor Wessenbergh comes to the show all
Speaker 1: the time and she always tells us the stories of
Speaker 1: what life was like growing up herself. So anyway, so
Speaker 1: mental health, right, us taking a moment now to have
Speaker 1: at least a conversation about our mental health, our self image,
Speaker 1: what it means to be exhausted, and how effective we
Speaker 1: are as fathers and as protectors and as you know,
Speaker 1: leaders and as you know, whatever your role is, you know,
Speaker 1: to take a moment and make sure that our brain
Speaker 1: isn't lying to us. It's become a little bit more important, right.
Speaker 1: But what I've seen is that we also need to
Speaker 1: have conversations about how to forgive each other. That doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that we don't take responsibility. That doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: at all, because I think that I think one of
Speaker 1: the highest testaments to manhood. I'm a man, so I
Speaker 1: will speak for men and adulthood because I'm an adult,
Speaker 1: so I will speak to that is acknowledging where you
Speaker 1: fall short and owning that and owning the impact that
Speaker 1: it makes, and owning how you are going to revise
Speaker 1: your behavior if you don't don't like it. Again, here's
Speaker 1: what I did, Here's how it made you feel. Here's
Speaker 1: what I'll do in the future.
Speaker 3: That gives us a lot to unpack. And the lack
Speaker 3: of what you just said is what has caused a
Speaker 3: sort of hypervigilance or a gross need for hyper accountability.
Speaker 3: That's where cancel culture came from. People think that people
Speaker 3: just that we all just jumped off the porch wanting
Speaker 3: to cancel people because we're mean. I guess I think
Speaker 3: you know. We speak about like the Me Too movement
Speaker 3: as a moment in history. So many years of so
Speaker 3: many men taking full advantage of their manhood and broad
Speaker 3: daylight at the peril of so many women caused a
Speaker 3: backlash that for some people felt like it was too far.
Speaker 3: But you have to understand this is in the face
Speaker 3: of impunity. Sure, so many people have not been held accountable.
Speaker 3: Now everyone has to be yeah, right, So the lack
Speaker 3: of people saying this is what I did, this is
Speaker 3: how it made you feel, this is what you deserve,
Speaker 3: and this is what I plan to do, causes people
Speaker 3: to overreach because if they think nothing's being done or
Speaker 3: no one's being held accountable, they want accountability on a
Speaker 3: grander scale exactly. So that's what leads to that kind
Speaker 3: of lack of forgiveness, Like, no, we don't want another
Speaker 3: person to get away with doing something wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that, because, if I'm honest,
Speaker 1: didn't even think of the opposite side of that, right,
Speaker 1: So I'm glad you brought that into the conversation here. Now,
Speaker 1: let's talk about will Smith, just because it gives us
Speaker 1: a great opportunity to examine what forgiveness looks like. Now again,
Speaker 1: to err is human and then when it comes to
Speaker 1: black people and black men in particular, because I have
Speaker 1: that frame of reference, these conversations don't often happen because
Speaker 1: we're not taught this and because we are dealing with
Speaker 1: other societal pressures and we need the discipline and we
Speaker 1: need to, you know, understand the pressures that we have
Speaker 1: so that we can do a lot more healing and
Speaker 1: a lot less fighting, on and on. You know, again,
Speaker 1: this is a constructive show, not a destructive show. We
Speaker 1: try to make it that way. It's an important thing
Speaker 1: to point out. But we have to also acknowledge black
Speaker 1: white supremacists too, so not tear them down, just point
Speaker 1: it out. So don't give these people your attention, money, time, energy,
Speaker 1: or anyone like them. And that's how we beat that anyway,
Speaker 1: back to what I'm saying. So Will Smith goes on
Speaker 1: to the Trepanoah show, okay, and he talks about that
Speaker 1: slap after he talks about the movies promoting right and
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, man, that was good to see his face.
Speaker 1: Will Smith is not again, this is me talking. I
Speaker 1: won't speak for you, I won't speak for anyone else.
Speaker 1: He's not the worst thing that he's ever done. You're
Speaker 1: not the worst. Listening to my voice, You're not the
Speaker 1: worst thing you've ever done. I certainly hope I will
Speaker 1: not be the worst thing I've ever done on my
Speaker 1: day of judgment or whatever.
Speaker 3: I know some people who are dead set that I
Speaker 3: am sure. Fortunately we've heard them say it out loud. Well,
Speaker 3: those people are not God.
Speaker 1: Amen. Now Will Smith mentioned he's like, you know, my
Speaker 1: father used to hit my mother. I think it might
Speaker 1: have been Trevor Noah said that he read that in
Speaker 1: Will's book that you know he saw a lot of
Speaker 1: abuse growing up. So there was a component of that. Right.
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier that Will mentioned that he had pent
Speaker 1: up rage from a lot of the online harassment, a
Speaker 1: lot of which was directed at his relationship with his
Speaker 1: wife and people everyone had their opinions on what he
Speaker 1: should have done, what he shouldn't have done, how he
Speaker 1: should feel or shouldn't feel, and know him being emotional
Speaker 1: about it, and you got to bear man's this man's wife,
Speaker 1: there is children. People have a.
Speaker 3: Very very slighted view of how impossible it is to
Speaker 3: live all of your life publicly, not just your public
Speaker 3: persona in your career, but your relationship as well. I
Speaker 3: unfortunately had a small peak into what a public relationship
Speaker 3: with a public figure looks and feels like. I remember
Speaker 3: that it is not fun, It is not exciting, especially
Speaker 3: when there are hardships and downfalls and mistakes. They are
Speaker 3: also made out loud and in front of people, and
Speaker 3: you get to hear how, in my case, thousands of people,
Speaker 3: in his case, millions of people feel about the decisions
Speaker 3: that you make that hurt that person, that there might
Speaker 3: be that person's fan and not yours, and so you
Speaker 3: are ppetuity the bad guy. The whole Will Smith thing
Speaker 3: has been complicated for me. Rams is because I've I've
Speaker 3: never met Chris Rock, but as you know, I have
Speaker 3: a very close relationship with his brother and met Will
Speaker 3: when I first started my career in professional sports and entertainment,
Speaker 3: have been to his home and got some of the
Speaker 3: best advice I ever got from him. Both of those
Speaker 3: guys were heroes to me, both of them superheroes. And
Speaker 3: seeing them put in a position where for a moment
Speaker 3: they were, you know, because of Will's decision, opposition to
Speaker 3: each other, and they never been that before. And what
Speaker 3: we've all seen is, you know, I got to feel
Speaker 3: how one of my best friends felt about his brother
Speaker 3: being hit in front of everybody world.
Speaker 1: That's a lot to reconcile.
Speaker 3: And I also, you know, never like for us to
Speaker 3: be out front at each other like that. You and I,
Speaker 3: in our own way have steered as clear as we
Speaker 3: can of being opposition to someone that as far as
Speaker 3: views go, we are opposed to, but we've tried very
Speaker 3: hard to not have it be framed as an US
Speaker 3: versus him, even with things that we're dealing with.
Speaker 1: Q was being very cryptic, but I know what he's
Speaker 1: talking about it and you probably know too.
Speaker 3: So it hurt to see them in that space. I
Speaker 3: must say, however, though Will is trying.
Speaker 1: That's where I want it, because I think that forgiveness
Speaker 1: starts with intention trying, right, and I think that we
Speaker 1: should honor that in our interpersonal relationships one on one,
Speaker 1: when we look at people and offer our opinions online,
Speaker 1: when we move through time and space, we have to
Speaker 1: acknowledge that we are human beings interacting with other human beings. Right.
Speaker 1: Will says something in his interview says, be nice. You
Speaker 1: never know what someone else is going through. He says,
Speaker 1: on that day, I was going through some stuff, right,
Speaker 1: and for whatever reason, he thought what he did was
Speaker 1: the right thing. And in short order he tells the story.
Speaker 1: He says, when I got home, my nephew was at home.
Speaker 1: He was watching the oscars. He says, my nephew came
Speaker 1: and sat on my lap, and he held the oscar.
Speaker 1: That oscar or emmy oscar? Okay cool? So he sat
Speaker 1: on his lap and held the oscar and he says, uncle, Will,
Speaker 1: why did you hit that man? And Will was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. And in that moment he realized that
Speaker 1: was the wrong thing.
Speaker 3: To do and they need to try to maybe even
Speaker 3: not just in that moment when you talk about an exclamation.
Speaker 1: Mark, there you go, that's that's probably because I don't
Speaker 1: want to speak for the man, but you know, And
Speaker 1: since then he's like, look, that was wrong. That whole
Speaker 1: night was a stupor what I did, what I said afterward,
Speaker 1: It just that was where I was at and that's
Speaker 1: not who I want to be. So how do I
Speaker 1: make it right? How does he make it right? Ask yourself,
Speaker 1: what do we want from people when they make mistakes?
Speaker 1: If not perfection apparently, but what is perfection after you've
Speaker 1: made a mistake. If we can understand and appreciate that
Speaker 1: human beings make mistakes, if you yourself recognize the mistakes
Speaker 1: are possible in your own life and skin right, then
Speaker 1: what do we want from other people when they make mistakes?
Speaker 1: Do we want them to apologize? Do we want them
Speaker 1: to acknowledge the hurt that they've you know, cause do
Speaker 1: we want them to adjust their you know, behavior moving forward?
Speaker 1: Do we want some sort of compensation?
Speaker 3: I mean, you hit the nail on the head man
Speaker 3: starting at I was wrong, that's a lot. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: was wrong, and I apologize without no qualifiers at all.
Speaker 3: What I did was wrong. Stop I apologize. Stop like,
Speaker 3: that's it. There's not qualifiers there, you know. Apparently for
Speaker 3: some people there is no right thing to do after
Speaker 3: a mistake. You made that mistake, So that's it. That's it,
Speaker 3: and that's fair. But if we are inclined to forgive someone,
Speaker 3: we need to really be conscientious of what that looks like.
Speaker 3: And if you feel like people don't deserve any grace,
Speaker 3: any forgiveness, then keep that energy and expect that in return.
Speaker 3: Point exactly now, I want to say that no one
Speaker 3: deserves forgiveness. Please include yourself that equation.
Speaker 1: Yes, now, I do want to say this. I wrote
Speaker 1: this note and I think it sounds great. Trevor No
Speaker 1: was very gracious. Trevor allowed him to not be a
Speaker 1: perfect human, but be perfectly human, right, recognizing that human
Speaker 1: beings are flawed creatures. And I do want to add this,
Speaker 1: and this is kind of one of the things that
Speaker 1: sort of helped me start thinking about this as a concept.
Speaker 1: You know, forgiveness among us black people. You know, there's
Speaker 1: we have stuff, gang stuff, we have you know, click stuff,
Speaker 1: wrap beefs and all this sort of stuff in our communities,
Speaker 1: and forgiveness is not talked about nearly enough. And so
Speaker 1: this is why I really wanted to take some time.
Speaker 1: But there were two people that I saw. This was
Speaker 1: a year's old video, but I just saw it recently,
Speaker 1: So forgive me, sports guys, I'm not a sports guy again.
Speaker 1: I saw Magic Johnson and Isaiah Thomas. They were interviewing
Speaker 1: with each other. Were they forgave each other? Now, I
Speaker 1: don't even know why they were mad in the first place,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that. But story one day, when the
Speaker 1: MIC's turned along, okay, but it was beautiful, they broke down.
Speaker 1: They started crying. I guess they were friends once upon
Speaker 1: a time. Clos and Jordan Ram's level friends. Oh, that
Speaker 1: would never happen to me and you But you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. You could see that.
Speaker 3: It's like I'm but imagining it did happen to me
Speaker 3: and you? Yeah, can paint why you saw them so emotional.
Speaker 1: But for that video again, if you wanted to go
Speaker 1: Google at Magic Johnson Isaiah Thomas interview, you see why
Speaker 1: forgiveness is important and just how healing it can be.
Speaker 1: And I think it's important for us to start to
Speaker 1: center that in our conversations in addition to our mental
Speaker 1: health and scene. And now it's time for the Way
Speaker 1: Black History Fact. Today's Way Black History Fact is sponsored
Speaker 1: by Major Threads Men'swear. To get the finest in men'swear,
Speaker 1: check out major threads dot com our Way Black History Fact. Today,
Speaker 1: we're talking about Solomon Sir Jones from eighteen sixty nine
Speaker 1: to nineteen thirty six right. He was an American minister
Speaker 1: and an amateur filmmaker, best known for his collection of
Speaker 1: twenty nine silent black and white films totally three hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty five minutes worth of footage documenting African American
Speaker 1: communities in Oklahoma from nineteen twenty four in nineteen twenty eight.
Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, Jones's films were selected for the United
Speaker 1: States National Film Registry by the Library of Congress. Is
Speaker 1: being culture truly, historically or esthetically significant. Jones was born
Speaker 1: in Tennessee to parents who had once been enslaved. He
Speaker 1: grew up in the South before moving to Oklahoma in
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty nine. Jones became an influential Baptist minister, building
Speaker 1: and pastoring fifteen churches, who was head of the Buoyd
Speaker 1: faction of Negro Baptists in America, and was a successful businessman.
Speaker 1: Jones's films consist of twenty nine silent black and white
Speaker 1: films documenting African American communities in Oklahoma from nineteen twenty
Speaker 1: four to nineteen twenty eight. They contained three hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty five minutes of footage shot with the then new
Speaker 1: sixteen millimeter cameras. The films document a rich tapestry of
Speaker 1: everyday life funerals, sporting events, schools, parades, businesses, Masonic meetings,
Speaker 1: river baptisms, families at home, African American oil barons and
Speaker 1: their wells, Black colleges, June teen celebrations, and a transcontinental
Speaker 1: foot race. Jones's films have been preserved by the Smithsonian Institute,
Speaker 1: the Baynecki Rare Book in mana U Script Library of
Speaker 1: the Yale University Library, and the National Museum of African
Speaker 1: American History and culture shot out to them. They are
Speaker 1: considered to be the most extensive film records we have
Speaker 1: of southern and urban black life and culture at the
Speaker 1: time of rapid social and cultural change for African Americans
Speaker 1: during the nineteen twenties and the very beginning of the
Speaker 1: Great Migration, which transformed not only Black people as a whole,
Speaker 1: but America itself. Jones filmed Oklahoma residents in their homes,
Speaker 1: during their social, school and church activities, in the businesses
Speaker 1: they owned, and performing various jobs. The films documents several
Speaker 1: Oklahoma communities, including Forgive Me Oklahoma, Muscogee, Okmolgi, Tulsa, Weewaka, Bristow,
Speaker 1: and tact The films also document Jones's trips to Indiana, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, Missouri, Illinois,
Speaker 1: New York City, South Carolina, Colorado, and overseas to France, England, Palestine, Switzerland, Italy,
Speaker 1: North Africa and Germany. I've been all those places except
Speaker 1: like two. Slates between scenes identify location, states, and subjects.
Speaker 1: Jones frequently filmed at various locations by positioning himself outside
Speaker 1: of building while people exited the building in a line.
Speaker 1: This perspective provides footage of people as they walk by
Speaker 1: the camera, usually looking directly at it. Footage of churches
Speaker 1: includes congregants exiting the service and socializing outside. Footage of
Speaker 1: schools often include students playing outside or doing exercises, and
Speaker 1: footage of people at their homes includes them outside on
Speaker 1: their porches or in their yards aside from church and
Speaker 1: scheduled school activities. People presumably exited at Jones's request for
Speaker 1: the purposes of being filmed by him. In addition to
Speaker 1: his work with film, Jones was a businessman and a
Speaker 1: Baptist minister who either established or was the pastor of
Speaker 1: some fifteen churches in his lifetime. He was the son
Speaker 1: of ex slaves or in Tennessee and grew up in
Speaker 1: the South. Jones spent the next several decades building black institutions,
Speaker 1: establishing churches, newspapers, and business and supporting the activities of
Speaker 1: schools and hospitals. Jones also remained active in church politics,
Speaker 1: holding leadership roles in the National Baptist Convention of America,
Speaker 1: one of the largest African American denominations in the United States.
Speaker 1: For many years, Jones was a fierce defender of black
Speaker 1: institutions one of many African American leaders in Oklahoma who
Speaker 1: supported what came to be called all Black Towns, municipalities
Speaker 1: occupied and governed by black settlers. One of these towns
Speaker 1: was targeted in nineteen twenty one Here we Go by
Speaker 1: white mobs for one of the worst racist attacks in
Speaker 1: American history, referred to as the Tulsa race Massacre. More
Speaker 1: than eight hundred people were admitted to hospitals, and as
Speaker 1: many as six thousand black residents were interned in large facilities,
Speaker 1: many of them for several days. The Oklahoma Sorry the
Speaker 1: Oklahoma Bureau of Vital Statistics, officially recorded thirty six dead.
Speaker 1: A two thousand and one State Commission examination of events
Speaker 1: was able to confirm that of the thirty six dead,
Speaker 1: twenty six were black and ten white. It is believed
Speaker 1: that there are many more than thirty six had died.
Speaker 1: I just want to tell you that that's not in
Speaker 1: this here memory based on contemporary autopsy reports, death certificates,
Speaker 1: and other records. Jones was well traveled, traveling across not
Speaker 1: only the United States but overseas as well. His films
Speaker 1: of his overseas travels were only slightly less significant than
Speaker 1: Jones's Films of Oklahoma, which still serve as a visual
Speaker 1: commemoration of the thirty five years he spent advocating for
Speaker 1: African American people and institutions in Oklahoma. Now, I do
Speaker 1: want to say that I pulled from two sources. One
Speaker 1: was the Yale Yale because they have the actual footage
Speaker 1: in turn in that entity Yale the School and Wikipedia.
Speaker 1: So this is why you might hear a couple of
Speaker 1: things repeated twice. I also want to say that, you know,
Speaker 1: this might seem sort of maybe unremarkable to us modern folks,
Speaker 1: but for us, for black people, you know, when we
Speaker 1: see old movies, old films, silent films like this, we
Speaker 1: often see ourselves as either not there or some sort
Speaker 1: of caricature of ourselves, or as servants. We're propping up
Speaker 1: society rather than participating in it. And for those of
Speaker 1: you who maybe didn't grow up black, for those of
Speaker 1: you that have old films where you see yourself represented,
Speaker 1: your culture, people represented, driving cars and engaging in whatever,
Speaker 1: you kind of take it for granted. But when you
Speaker 1: don't have that, and you see those films and you've
Speaker 1: notice that there are no black people here, and the
Speaker 1: black people you do they're just serving people. Again, there's
Speaker 1: not a lot of dignity that you can find. You
Speaker 1: can find black people existed. And these films are not
Speaker 1: only important because there was a black filmmaker, but they're
Speaker 1: important because, as I mentioned, he filmed locations by positioning
Speaker 1: himself outside of the building. So he saw people coming
Speaker 1: out of stores, he saw people coming out of churches,
Speaker 1: he saw people playing, people sitting in their front yard,
Speaker 1: people just having fun and living their lives. And they
Speaker 1: were black, and that's not something that you find in
Speaker 1: films like this from that time. We're people, you know,
Speaker 1: We're not just you know, when you think back in
Speaker 1: the day, you think slaves, right, and that's fair because
Speaker 1: back in the day, that's all we were, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. But except that was never all we were.
Speaker 1: And thank you, and these films are important because it
Speaker 1: shows a full human being living in America who has
Speaker 1: melanin in his skin and her skin and their skin.
Speaker 1: And so again we want to shout out Solomon Sir
Speaker 1: Jones for archive in these film for us to enjoy,
Speaker 1: check out his work and just get a glimpse into
Speaker 1: what it looks like to be black and successful. Before
Speaker 1: they came and burned it down in nineteen twenty one.
Speaker 1: So yeah, sorry, but that's going to do it for
Speaker 1: us here on Civic Cipher. Once again, I'm your host, Rams' Jah.
Speaker 3: He is Rams's Jah, I am Qward. Thank you guys
Speaker 3: for tuning in with us again. Thank you guys for
Speaker 3: listening every week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3: Guys for caring about what we're talking about. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: these topics don't have to be important to you, especially
Speaker 3: if you're not black. For those of you that are not,
Speaker 3: that invests so much of your time and energy into
Speaker 3: what we're talking about and how we feel and our experiences.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you absolutely. Today's show is produced by Maggie B. Knowen.
Speaker 1: Hit the website cipcipper dot com to submit any questions,
Speaker 1: any topics, make a donation. The show is growing and
Speaker 1: it continues to grow with your support. Follow us on
Speaker 1: all social media of course, at Civiccipher dot com. You
Speaker 1: can follow Q at imq word, you can follow me
Speaker 1: at Ramsey joh and of course you can download the
Speaker 1: show listen to any other previous episode on our website
Speaker 1: as well. And again, yeah, thanks for listening. So until
Speaker 1: next week y'all. Peace lady, we handle it.
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