1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 2: The Nolan Wells All top seat fere are this as 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: the FBI swoops in good evening. I'm Nancy Grace, this 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 2: with us. I find it very difficult to believe that 6 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 2: not one but two medical examples cannot figure. 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: Out why he had. 8 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,959 Speaker 2: Deep red subcutaneous marquings. 9 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 3: Preliminary findings and this is significant. 10 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 4: Focal area of red discoloration and the soft tissue of 11 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 4: the back of the head the ocipitar region. He said, 12 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 4: the idiology is unknown at this time. He said the 13 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 4: body was received after the initial autopsy. He said the 14 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 4: body had marked decom decompensation. Another limitation faced by this 15 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 4: forensic pathologist was the absence of the anterior internal next structures. 16 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 4: The trachea and the laryngaal cartilage, the thyroid horn, and 17 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 4: the hyoid bone were not received with the body. 18 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 3: So he said that the throat. 19 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 4: Was not received with the body when he got Nolan 20 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 4: Wells's body in Washington, d C. 21 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 3: To perform the second autopsy. 22 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 5: The only question that we have is what happened to 23 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 5: our son. 24 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: That that is the only question. 25 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:13,119 Speaker 5: We have consistently been degraded by the public. There's been 26 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 5: questions about our parenting, our go fundme, this, that, and other. 27 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 2: I've been called a racist. 28 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 5: I am a health care provider and I take my 29 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 5: job very seriously. I love everyone, and it's just. 30 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: It's been difficult for us. 31 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 5: But we are leaning into our faith, leaning into one another, 32 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 5: also leaning into all of you. 33 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 2: You were saying family attorney Ben Crump, followed by Nolan 34 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 2: Wells's mother speaking, Dear Lord in Heaven, what is wrong 35 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 2: with people? If this were your child? What you want 36 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 2: to know? What happened? He goes out with friends, they 37 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 2: all come back, He's dead. I don't understand the hate 38 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 2: directed toward Nolan's family and to everyone looking for answers 39 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: at this hour. I don't think anyone is guilty, but 40 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: I do know that there is a conflict, a conflict 41 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: in the stories, and we are not stopping until we 42 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 2: know what happened to Nolan Wells. 43 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: So you can send all the. 44 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: Hate and vitriol you want have at it. That from 45 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 2: our friends over at NAACP straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan. 46 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 2: We've got an all star panel lined up to analyze 47 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 2: what's happening. At this hour, as we are learning, the 48 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: FBI has swooped into this investigation, and that is not 49 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,839 Speaker 2: disparaging local law and enforcement, although they did apparently jump 50 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: the gun at the get go and say no foul places. Inspector, 51 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: Will I suspect foul play because I don't know any differently, 52 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: maybe it will turn out to all be an accident, 53 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: but as of right now, we need a full on investigation. 54 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, before I give you a very very 55 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 2: long intro, bio, where's the throat? I know we have 56 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 2: deep red markings on the occipital bone that's in the 57 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 2: back of the Thank you. This is directly from the autopsy. 58 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: We want you to see what the family has seen. 59 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 2: Don't you think, Joe Scott Morgan, that the second medical 60 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 2: examiner might need the throat to figure out what happened? 61 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: I mean, Joe Scott, It's on fire claims that Noah 62 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 2: Wills had been lynched, that he had been strangled asphyxiated. 63 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 2: Do I believe lynching occurred? No, I do not believe that, 64 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 2: but I do know I need to see the neck. 65 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, and let me tell you where the neck is. 66 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 6: The organs of the neck as it's referred to. These 67 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 6: neck structures are actually being held by the Mississippi State 68 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 6: Medical Examiner's Office, and they don't just arbitrarily hold things 69 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 6: like this, Nancy. This is something that would commonly go 70 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 6: with the body when the body is released. So I 71 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 6: deduce the fact that they have seen something there that 72 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 6: they're trying to hold onto from an evidentiary value. Remember, 73 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 6: the state still has an ongoing investigation in this case, 74 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 6: and they see evidentiary value in this. And yes, I 75 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 6: know that the second autopsy pro sector up in DC 76 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 6: would have liked to have seen this, but he understands 77 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 6: this why they would retain it, and it is being retained. 78 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 6: I can promise you that, as are other tissue samples 79 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 6: you know. But the problem is is that when you 80 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 6: get into the structure in the neck, one of the 81 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 6: things you're trying to assess is was this a drowning? Also, 82 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 6: is there any kind of trauma? If people will just 83 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 6: put their hands right here in the middle line of 84 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 6: your neck, you'll feel that kind of cartilaginous body there. 85 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 6: That's cartilage, right, that can be fractured. Need I remind 86 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 6: you Epstein, right, So you have to examine this also 87 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 6: here's our word, Nancy. They're talking about the hioid is 88 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 6: missing as well. So they don't have that mean. 89 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, because show me, Joe Scott, you and 90 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 2: I hyroid. We know what it is, because you and 91 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 2: I have handled a ton of asphyxiation, ligature and manuals triangulations. 92 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 2: You name it, hyroid. Explain so different. 93 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's very very far up the neck, Nancy. 94 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 6: And one of the things that happens is that with 95 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 6: the hyroid, it's generally only traumatized as a result of 96 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 6: direct pressure that's generally applied by a throttling event or 97 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 6: a CEA clamp like this, throttling meaning like this, So 98 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 6: manual strangulation and an outlayer here is literature strangulation, but 99 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 6: primarily hands on. So they're looking for little fractures in 100 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 6: here all along the way. So that has to be 101 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 6: dissected along with these other there's a couple of other 102 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 6: structures that you look at as well. They've held onto 103 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 6: this for some reason. I don't have the answer for that, 104 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 6: but I can tell you it's being preserved. I don't 105 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 6: know if they're getting further consultation on their end. That 106 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 6: is the state, and I'm sure that stop. 107 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 2: Stop stop, Joe Scott. You're giving me so much information. 108 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: Let me tell everybody, if they don't know who you are, 109 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 2: why you're here tonight, Okay. Joe Scott Morgan is a 110 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: death investigator. He has investigated over ten thousand death scenes 111 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 2: of all natures. You've only got a few choices. You've 112 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: got homicide, suicide, accident, natural causes like a heart attack, 113 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 2: and unexplained tonight, we've got who unexplained medical examiners reports. 114 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: Why we don't have the lungs in a potential drowning case. 115 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: Why we don't have the neck in a potentially, as 116 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 2: you said, throttling case. Why those are the two main 117 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: things I want to see. Joe Scott Morgan Professor Forensics, 118 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 2: Jacksonville State University with a world class criminal procedure department. 119 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 2: I've toured it myself. He's the author of Looved Beneath 120 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 2: My Feet on Amazon, and he is the star of 121 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: hit podcast Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan and so 122 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 2: much more. But that would take the whole program. Joe 123 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 2: Scott really with allegations floating, very incendiary allegations of lynchings, 124 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 2: of throttlings of ligatures. The main thing I want to 125 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: see the lungs and the neck, and they're both missing. 126 00:08:58,120 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 2: I have a problem. 127 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 6: Well, I don't know that the lungs are necessarily missing. 128 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 6: Let me tell you how this works. They have done 129 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 6: sections of the lungs at the Emmy's office in Mississippi. Now, 130 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 6: the one thing that is included in this report relative 131 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 6: to the second, the second autopsy that's been released, is 132 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 6: that the doctor here, who is a fantastic doctor, highly credentialed, 133 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 6: knows what he is doing. Former chief medical Examiner for DC. 134 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 6: He is stating that he has taken sample tissue samples. 135 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 6: He repeats this over and over again in the report. 136 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 6: He submitted this for his own histology. Why is that important? Well, 137 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 6: if you get into the lungs, that lung tissue and 138 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,719 Speaker 6: he can identify it even in it, I'm going to 139 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 6: be real graphic here. It arrived in a bag, okay, 140 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 6: So he would have to pick through this, find lung 141 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 6: tissue in there, and then sample that and he's going 142 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 6: to be looking microscopically for signs of drowning there and 143 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 6: he'll make his own assessment. One of the things I'm 144 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 6: concerned about nance, and I hope that they did this 145 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 6: down in Mississippi, is that when they do this initial examination, 146 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 6: did they do die tom testing, which is you're looking 147 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 6: for these little bits of algae that are distinct to 148 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 6: both fresh water and salt water, and if you find 149 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 6: that within the system, that's also an indication that the 150 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 6: individual may have been submerged and taken on water. So 151 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 6: right now we've got a lot of questions. But as 152 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 6: the second doctor says, this is all still pending investigation. 153 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Gray. 154 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 2: I'm trying to digest and make sense of everything Joe 155 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 2: Scott Morgan just told me. But what I know is 156 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 2: that I don't have the lungs and a potential drowning, 157 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 2: and I don't have the neck and a potential throttling 158 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: as he called it. And again, Joe Scott, we don't 159 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 2: have having a of any strangulation, be it manual or ligature, 160 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 2: except that deep red discoloration. And I read in the 161 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 2: autopsy report it was about twelve by eight. How can 162 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: that be? Explain to me what they're talking about? 163 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 6: Yeah, can we please put that that drawing up that 164 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 6: the doc rendered there? You know something interesting about that 165 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 6: that Mark Nancy. This thing has got kind of as 166 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 6: he has drawn it out here, that red indication that 167 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 6: he's done with a pen on this anatomical diagram. And 168 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 6: you see that's got what is referred to as kind 169 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 6: of specific margins, doesn't it. It almost appears as though 170 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 6: there is a pattern there, and it extends if folks 171 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 6: at home will take their hand and put it on 172 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 6: that kind of bony prominence in the back of your 173 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 6: head that's called your occiput. Okay, that's where the eccipital 174 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 6: bone is. So it looks like it's just beneath there. 175 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 6: So right along that edge, this thing's got margins. It 176 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 6: almost looks like it could potentially have a pattern. Hard 177 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 6: to say, but do you see how he has it 178 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 6: drawn out there, It's almost like a rectangular shape. When 179 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 6: you talk about decomposition, which he does extensively here, and 180 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 6: he says he can't make a full assessment because of 181 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 6: the status of the decomposition. Decomposition is what's called diffuse. 182 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 6: That means it kind of spreads out randomly what he 183 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 6: has drawn there, at least from his estimation there or 184 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 6: his rendering that he's done there. Puts margins on this thing. 185 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 6: You got to top end a bottom end and he 186 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 6: got sides. 187 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 2: Okay, you know all that said, What does it mean? 188 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: Because to me, doctor Kendall Crowns, who I respect deeply, 189 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 2: by the way suggesting it suggested it was blood pooling, 190 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 2: I'm not buying that because it's nowhere else. We don't 191 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: see that anywhere else on the body. Hey, Caitlin Becker 192 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 2: joining me, Senior national correspondent at New York Post. She's 193 00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 2: a star of New York Postcast, like podcast, but postcast. Caitlin. 194 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us tonight. Caitlin. I had it 195 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 2: out with doctor Kenda Crown's yesterday. He has superior knowledge, 196 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: so I was at a disadvantage. But I'm still sticking 197 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 2: to my guns. I don't see how the blood in 198 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 2: his body can pull in one location on the whole 199 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: back of his body, even if he's laying on his back. 200 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 2: Hold hold, hold, Brian Thrasher, Vice President United Cajun Navy. Brian, 201 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 2: isn't it true that when Nolan was found he was 202 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 2: face down, repeat, face down on the beach just at 203 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 2: the water's edge. And that's let's see the aerial video. 204 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: When I'm talking to Brian, so everybody can see what 205 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 2: he's talking about. Go ahead, Brian, yes, ma'am. 206 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 7: He was a face down on the beach right at 207 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 7: the water's edge. I'm not sure if he was spotted 208 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 7: still floating and they brought him in or if he 209 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 7: washed up right there, But I can only describe where 210 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 7: I saw him as we flew over the island. 211 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 2: Brian Trasher, based on the photo that I received from 212 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 2: an undisclosed source, he was face down, almost as if 213 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 2: if he were asleep, with one leg slightly out to 214 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 2: the side. Okay, face down, do you agree with that? 215 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 8: Brian, yes, ma'am, that's correct. 216 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: Okay. Back to Caitlin Becker, senior national correspondent, New York 217 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 2: Post of New York postcast, Caitlin, what can you tell 218 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: me about claims that his body was sent to the 219 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: second autopsy, the independent autopsy face down? 220 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 9: There seems to be a lot of questions about how 221 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 9: Nolan's body was received, found sent If he was sent 222 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 9: these down, that also doesn't make sense to me for 223 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 9: the claim that it would be blood pulling in the 224 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 9: back of his head, because if he's faced down, wouldn't 225 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 9: flood pool just by nature of gravity this way, if 226 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 9: he was found face down. 227 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 10: It just doesn't make a lot of sense. 228 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 9: But as I was listening to you and Joseph Scott 229 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 9: Morgan talk, I mean, I don't know the terrain here, 230 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 9: but if they're keeping the throat for a parental throttling, 231 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 9: and you see this mark on the back of the head, 232 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 9: if you're thinking in terms of someone's head pressed up 233 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 9: against it, if there's something behind my head and you're 234 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 9: pressing me this way, But by not knowing the manner 235 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 9: or cause of death, we're kind of jumping to a 236 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 9: conclusion there. So it just it just seems like every 237 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 9: single layer there is more questions than answers, And the 238 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 9: mark on the back of the head and not seeing 239 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 9: in the autopsy report that there were really marks or 240 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 9: signs of trauma anywhere else was really particularly curious, and 241 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 9: why just there, what caused it? And we don't really 242 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 9: have those answers about whether or not there was significant 243 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 9: trauma to the flip of that to the front, because 244 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 9: as you said, Brote wasn't sent for the second autopy. 245 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 2: So do you just Scott Morgan, I'm going to bring 246 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: it in the rest of the panel. In just one moment, 247 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: Joe Scott how could the deep reddened markings at the 248 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 2: back of the back of the head of the accipital, 249 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 2: how could that come from the blood sinking down post mortem? 250 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 2: It just first he was face down, so it's not 251 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 2: it would sink to the blood would go to his face. 252 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: That was the would be the lowest point. But after that, 253 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 2: after he's dead for a period of days, I don't 254 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 2: see how the blood could then continue to pull in 255 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 2: a different direction. And we are getting reports that he 256 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 2: was sent to this exactly to the second autopsy, face down. 257 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 2: I find that hard to believe it. That's according to reports. 258 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 6: Yeah, and so understand this with with decomposition, Okay, it's 259 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 6: like I said, it's going to be diffused. And this 260 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 6: second autopsy, I don't know if people are aware of this, 261 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 6: but you can read through the report itself, and it's 262 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 6: very let's see, it's very very graphic in the sense 263 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 6: that this doctor that did that, did this case, that 264 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 6: did the follow up, he did such an extensive dissection here, 265 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 6: I'm talking about stuff that we don't normally do at autopsy. 266 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 6: He's done the back, he's done the buttocks, he's done 267 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 6: the backs of the legs, the arms, the hands, even 268 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 6: the back of the head. He went. He took this 269 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 6: even further than the people in Mississippi did. And this 270 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 6: is something that we normally do, so folks understand, this 271 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 6: is something we normally do with an in custody death. 272 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 3: All right? 273 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 6: Uh where where it is this extensive? And he doesn't 274 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 6: see anything from a himorrhagic standpoint like direct trauma. The 275 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 6: big question is this pattern on the back of his head. 276 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 6: And I'm calling it a pattern because of the way 277 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 6: he's demons traded this with his diagram on the back 278 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 6: of this thing. And he doesn't go into great detail 279 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 6: about that in the autopsy report, So how did it 280 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 6: get there? 281 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 2: What I want to know is all these witnesses are 282 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:19,719 Speaker 2: right there, Brian Trasher. Don't like planes have a tail number. 283 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 2: Can't you identify who these boats are by their markings, 284 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 2: by their numbers, by their identification. They've got names written 285 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 2: on the side, they've got tail numbers, so to speak. 286 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: Have all of these people been brought in? I mean, 287 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 2: tell me how to identify a boat and how to 288 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 2: locate the driver and bring them in for questioning about 289 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 2: what happened that day, Because listen, Brian, the friends say 290 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: we left him with Katie. Katie apparently has been found 291 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 2: and says, no, he left with his friends. Okay, right there. 292 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 2: I've got a problem. How did everybody leave Gilligan on 293 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 2: the island waving hey, I'm here, and they all left him. 294 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 2: I find that hard to believe. I've got to find 295 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 2: out what precipitated him going into the water and how 296 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 2: that fits in with the marketing on the back of 297 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 2: his neck. Do you see where I'm going? Treasher? 298 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 7: Absolutely, and yes to answer your first question, you know 299 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 7: some of these boats just by the names people that 300 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 7: name the boats, and you can if you can detect 301 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 7: registration numbers, if it's registered in the state of Mississippi, that's 302 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 7: easy to find. I'm told that over sixty people have 303 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 7: been interviewed by law enforcement. I don't know who they 304 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 7: are or how they were brought in, but there was 305 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 7: a lot of interviews that have been conducted, and I'm 306 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 7: assuming there's going to be more. Yeah, with regards to 307 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 7: you know, what happened. That's that's always been the question. 308 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 7: That's why his parents want to know. There's just just 309 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 7: absolute black hole. From about four thirty pm on July 310 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 7: fourth until he washed up Monday morning, where nobody seems 311 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 7: to know anything. Nobody seemed to have seen anything. There's 312 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 7: conflicting stories, as you pointed out, from his friends and 313 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 7: people that saw him that day, about who he was 314 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 7: supposed to leave with. If you want to stay back 315 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 7: all that, it's all hearsay, it's all secondhand. And so yeah, 316 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 7: there is a massive hole in the story. And that's 317 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 7: why this has gotten national attention that it's gotten. As 318 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 7: far as the markings on his head, I mean, I 319 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 7: was told by some of the people who recovered the 320 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 7: body that it was obviously he had come in contact 321 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 7: with marine life while he was in the water. I'm 322 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 7: not sure if that's possible explanation of those markings. 323 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 8: I'm just telling you what I thought, So experts can wait. O, Brian, Brian, 324 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 8: hold on, Just Scott, I'm going to try to get 325 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 8: a quick answer from you on because it's valid. 326 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 2: What Treashure just said is valid because if there were 327 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 2: if his body had been attacked by marine life, you know, fish, turtles, whatever, 328 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 2: that would be all over the body. What we're talking 329 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 2: about is deep reddening of tissue, subcutaneous tissue on the 330 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 2: back of the head like the rest of the body. 331 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 2: So that is not the same as the decomp on 332 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 2: the rest of the body. I mean, why is it 333 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 2: so hard for everybody to get we've got a problem 334 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 2: with the back of the head. It's marked unlike any 335 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 2: other part of his body. And you said something very significant, 336 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, that the original medical examiner kept the 337 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 2: throat for a reason. Did he she keep the hand, 338 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 2: the fingers, the toes, No, because they weren't probative. They 339 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 2: didn't prove anything. The neck proved something. What what did 340 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 2: the neck prove? That's where I'm going help me. 341 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 6: Yeah, well, either to include or exclude any kind of 342 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 6: trauma that could have impeded his ability to breathe. There's 343 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 6: another part to this, Nancy, that I forgot to mention. 344 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 6: Relative to the neck, we have what are called strap 345 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 6: muscles that kind of lay over the center part of 346 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 6: the neck. What do we look for there, Well, that's 347 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 6: also where we see him relative to any kind of 348 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 6: pressure that's applied there, you'll see those. The doctor doesn't 349 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 6: mention anything about strap muscles because I think that those 350 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 6: were probably retained as well. Now back to the sea life. 351 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 6: I'm from Louisiana. I can tell you what type of 352 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 6: sea life would have affected his body, and if the 353 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 6: body was right there on the shore, it would be crabs. 354 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 6: And the reason I know that is because this is 355 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 6: where they kind of feed, if you will, all right, 356 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 6: So you don't hear any mention by the second medical 357 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 6: examiner talking about any kind of degrading of the body 358 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 6: as a result of contact with marine life that's feasting 359 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 6: in post bortem state. 360 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 11: We had roughly twenty to thirty people coming on three 361 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 11: separate boats with us, and so we were all following 362 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 11: each other out there as one big group. 363 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 6: You know. 364 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 11: It wasn't just me and Nolan and a couple of 365 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 11: my buddies. There was twenty or thirty people spread out 366 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 11: where we all met at the dock before and then 367 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 11: we departed to go to Horne Island. It wasn't just 368 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 11: a couple of us, I mean we were there were 369 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 11: so many people we had to split up between three 370 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 11: votes and we all left and all got there at 371 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 11: the same time. 372 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: And that is from our friends. I've read the Officer 373 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 2: Tatum show, and that is Warren Hudson's an acquaintance of 374 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 2: Nolan Wells. He was in the Horn Island group. Are 375 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 2: you hearing what I'm hearing. Josh Coles Rude. I mean, 376 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 2: I don't know if this happened to you in law school, 377 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 2: but it makes you think differently out of that whole thing. 378 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 2: I heard this. Twenty to thirty witnesses. Twenty to thirty witnesses. 379 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 2: Josh Coles Rude, veteran trial lawyer, criminal defense attorney, former 380 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 2: assistant US Attorney, Founder, Coles Rude Law Offices, and star 381 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 2: podcast No Contest at Colesroodlawoffices dot Com. Twenty thirty witnesses. 382 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 2: That's what I just heard. 383 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 12: Absolutely, you know this is going to be a huge investigation. 384 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 12: It already is. You know, one of the questions that 385 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 12: I've seen online about the friends is that, you know, 386 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 12: why do they leave him? But let me ask you 387 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 12: something hard You know those that are saying that, you look, 388 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 12: we're talking about you know, we're not talking about hardened men. 389 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 12: These are teenagers, their kids. They're eighteen, nineteen years old 390 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 12: on the water on the fourth of July. And you 391 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 12: know what happens when a teenager experiences something traumatic. You know, 392 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 12: they freeze, they panic, they go numb. Sometimes they cry, 393 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 12: sometimes they don't. But you know what they're not they're 394 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 12: not experts at like dredging the waterways. And you know, 395 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 12: I know that the family wants answers from the friends, 396 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 12: you know, and I get that. And you know, one 397 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 12: of the family members said, you know, are they getting 398 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 12: their lies straight when they went back to the mainland 399 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 12: and called for a cab. But you know, we don't 400 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 12: know what happened yet. And one of the things that 401 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 12: I'm really looking forward to seeing is the data from 402 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 12: the cell phones, right because that'll tell us exactly where 403 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 12: everybody was at what point in time, and including hopefully 404 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 12: the victim. Now you know, that's another question. You know, 405 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 12: how did they obtain the victim's phone? Well, it was 406 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 12: in one of the hands of his friends, So how 407 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 12: did that come there? So, you know, there are a 408 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 12: lot of answers. There's a lot of questions here, Nancy, 409 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 12: that we need answers to. And right now, we don't 410 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,239 Speaker 12: know if it was an accident, We don't know if 411 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 12: it was a death. We just don't know. 412 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 2: Caitlin Becker, who called who that night? Did Mom call 413 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 2: the friends, did the friends call the mom? How did 414 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 2: mom end up looking for Nolan? 415 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 9: It seems like Mom is on the case pretty immediately 416 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 9: when Nolan didn't, she had him on Life three sixties, 417 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 9: So I think that became the biggest kind of issue 418 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 9: of where's my son, where's his phone? And the only 419 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 9: think she could go off of is where's his phone, 420 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 9: which she could locate through kind of Life three sixty 421 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 9: where it was ping, So it seemed like she was 422 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 9: on the hunt for the phone there, and from all 423 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 9: of the accounts that we've been reporting on, the phones 424 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 9: were left in the boat because they didn't take them 425 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 9: to the shore. However, you can see all of those 426 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 9: people were back and forth on the boat, so clearly 427 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 9: they were using them, but the phone was on the 428 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 9: boat that went back without Nolan first, so it seems 429 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 9: that the friends took the phone with them to their house, 430 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 9: and then that is what happened with it between then 431 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 9: and when his mom got It seemed to be the 432 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 9: question of where it was and who was touching it, 433 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 9: who was using, what was done on it. But it 434 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 9: seems like the location on the Life three sixty is 435 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 9: how mom tracked down the phone when she realized that 436 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 9: her son wasn't where he needed to be. 437 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 2: So that night Nolan doesn't come home, Mom Christine starts 438 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 2: looking for him. She is a family nurse practitioner. She 439 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 2: starts looking for him. She looks on Life three sixty 440 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 2: and follows it. You can get that on Life three sixties. 441 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 2: Show me the route to the phone. And she did 442 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 2: that to the friend's house that had all been out 443 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 2: to Horn Island, and she's like, and she goes, where's 444 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 2: no one? His phone's here, but he's not here, and 445 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 2: they go, yeah, it's out there in the truck. So 446 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 2: they wait fifteen minutes to go get the phone and 447 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 2: come back with it. Everybody's just sitting there in the 448 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 2: dark watching TV. Nobody said, hey, where's no one? Nobody 449 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 2: said that until she came over looking for the phone. 450 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 9: Which could kind of point to if I'm hearing it, it 451 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 9: could kind of point to two things. 452 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 13: I know. 453 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 9: There is a plenty. There's a huge faction online saying 454 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 9: what are they doing? What are they covering up? What 455 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 9: are they doing? But then on the flip of that, 456 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 9: just to play Devil's advocate, if you don't think there's 457 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 9: anything wrong with your friend, if you assumed your pal 458 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 9: was in another boat with another group of friends, why 459 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 9: would you even think to be concerned about that? Until 460 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 9: his mom comes knocking at the door and says, where's 461 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 9: my son? So, I mean, like the teen behavior. It 462 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 9: reminds me so much of the teen or the young 463 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 9: people in the Idaho order can just looking at them 464 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 9: to be like, why are they not reacting the way 465 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 9: you would think someone would react in a situation. 466 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 10: And while the circumstances are so wildly different. 467 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 9: I think we have to remember that we're talking about, 468 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 9: you know, teenagers here and teenagers who were leaving in 469 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 9: a large group, who admittedly were drinking, who were part 470 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 9: partying in three separate boats. So I think it might 471 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 9: have been easy to lose track of one another. That 472 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 9: doesn't explain anything, though, That doesn't explain why no one 473 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 9: out of one person out of that twenty to thirty 474 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 9: said to themselves where the heck is Nolan. I mean, 475 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 9: if you and I were out with twenty to thirty 476 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 9: of our friends, someone at some point probably would have raised, 477 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 9: you know, scratched their head and said, where's Nancy? 478 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 10: Have you heard from Nancy all day? If it had 479 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 10: gone to that point of the night. 480 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 14: I assume his phone had a password. There are certain 481 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 14: things that you need the password to do, such as 482 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 14: delete activity. But if you don't have a password and 483 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 14: you pick up your phone. If you're touching the screen, 484 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 14: that leaves a trace. If you're trying to power it off, 485 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 14: that leaves a trace. So we should be able to 486 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 14: see people without a password trying to actively interact with 487 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 14: that phone as well as someone that has it. So 488 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 14: we would do a forensic acquisition, and that's really important here. 489 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 14: Someone just looking in the phone, you can get a glimpse, 490 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 14: but you can't see what's deleted and hiding below the surface. 491 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 14: We need a forensic acquisition to do that. We can 492 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 14: tell if it was just soft deleted, so like sitting 493 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 14: in a trash can or a hard delete. So if 494 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 14: you empty your trash on your phone and then you 495 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 14: go and throw it into a dumpster and the trash 496 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 14: is taken away, there is a log that tracks everything 497 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 14: also with timestamps on when that activity occurred. If you 498 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 14: get a full filesystem acquisition and I realized that's really nerdy, 499 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 14: but this is where acquisition and time to evidence matters. 500 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 14: Deleted data exists and sits there for a period of time, 501 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 14: so time to evidence is everything here. Apple's more forgiving, 502 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 14: and you have about thirty days with Android, you could 503 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 14: have just a few days until location artifacts are purged. 504 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 2: That's Heather Barnhart, digital forensics expert. 505 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 506 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 2: To Dave Mac. I want to before we launch into 507 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 2: the phone tracking in the phone investigation, I want to 508 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: clarify something I understood that Warren Hudson, one of Nolan's friends, 509 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 2: called the mom around eleven oh seven, telling her Nolan 510 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 2: was missing. Now, which is it, did the mom call 511 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 2: the friends or follow the Life three sixty or did 512 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: the friend, Warren Hudson call the mom. 513 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 15: Christine Wansley, Nolan's mother, says she received a phone call 514 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 15: from Warren Hudson. Now she identified him by first name 515 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 15: during one of the press conferences and interviews. Okay, now 516 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 15: she has not disclosed what the entire details of that 517 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 15: call were, but we know that right after that conversation 518 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 15: from Warren calling Christine, that Christine contacted a friend who 519 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 15: had two sons who had also been with Nolan to 520 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 15: ask if they had seen him. It was after that 521 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 15: call that the family began checking Nolan's location through Life 522 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 15: three point sixty and snapchat, and that's where we end 523 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 15: up with the discrepancy of locations. 524 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 2: We also learned tonight the FBI has been called in. 525 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 10: Anything you know? Okay, are y'all? 526 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 16: Can I confirm that y'all our working with the FBI 527 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 16: with the case, yes, okay, Any other agencies that you're 528 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 16: working with at this time? 529 00:31:59,120 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 3: All right? 530 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 16: And is this is still under investigation? 531 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 6: Actively under investigation? 532 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 2: Okay? 533 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 16: So I was told by district attorney everything is going 534 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 16: through her office at this time and everything. 535 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 6: Else should be referenced to the attorney's office. 536 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 2: Okay, you know, Caitlin Becker joining me, Senior national correspondent, 537 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 2: New York Post. I just learned two very important things. 538 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 2: Number one, the FBI is involved why? And number two 539 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 2: at the outset, I understand that local law enforcement first 540 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 2: said that no foul play is suspected. It was a 541 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 2: simple drowning, if there is such a thing. But now 542 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 2: the FBI is in and everything's being referred to the 543 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 2: district attorney. Is that correct? 544 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 9: From what we understand, our reporting says the exact same 545 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 9: thing that the district attorney is dealing with. Everything this 546 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 9: is going to go to a grand jury, which we 547 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 9: understand is very. 548 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 10: Typical questionally in this area. 549 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 9: I think it's typical pretty much everywhere if you have 550 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 9: a suspicious, unnatural death, that something would go to a 551 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 9: brand jury. The local police do seem like they may 552 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 9: have jumped the gun in calling this a simple drowning 553 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 9: with however exactly that they worded it, you know, just 554 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 9: a drowning. 555 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 10: With no foul play suspective. 556 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 9: That doesn't say there was no foul play at all, 557 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 9: or there couldn't be, or they're not investigating. But to 558 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 9: just write this office no foul play suspected off the bat, 559 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 9: I think got everyone's kind of hackles up. And I 560 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 9: think that's a particularly something that the family didn't want 561 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 9: to hear. You have a strong swimmer, young guy, athletic 562 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 9: person who went. 563 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 10: Out, didn't come home, and no one. 564 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 9: Had saw him struggling. You didn't see him go in 565 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 9: the water and struggle. That's a simple drowning. We saw 566 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 9: someone go in, we try to help, they drown. That 567 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 9: to me is a case closed, simple drowning. But now 568 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 9: the FEDS are involved in the FBI is involved, perhaps 569 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 9: because there is more to it than it seems right. 570 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 2: Josh callsred, I got a question for you. The FBI 571 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 2: is now part of this investigation. That is significant. The 572 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 2: FBI is only brought in under certain circumstances, that is 573 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 2: within the state jurisdiction. And this thing has mushroomed from 574 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 2: no foul play suspected to the DA is handling all 575 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 2: of this, and I'd like to point out that the 576 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 2: sheriff was not responding. Well, guess what, everybody, when I 577 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 2: would be besieged by reporters when I was prosecuting case, 578 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 2: You're not at liberty to comment on an ongoing investigation. 579 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 2: As much as we on the outside looking in feel stymied, 580 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 2: I'm surprised the law enforcement officer even stopped to talk 581 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 2: to the journalist WDSU because they shouldn't be revealing evidence, 582 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 2: So don't make it look like he's hiding in his office. 583 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:57,399 Speaker 2: He should not be revealing evidence. That said address. This 584 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 2: is now at the district attorney level, and the FBI 585 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 2: is in. That's what I need you for, Coles Rude. 586 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 12: Yeah, so great question. So let's separate the two. The 587 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 12: district attorney works for the state, the FBI works for 588 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 12: the US Attorney's office. Now, just because there's a homicide 589 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 12: does not make this a federal case. So ask yourselves, 590 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,800 Speaker 12: why would the FBI be here? Well, there's two possible reasons. 591 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 12: Number one, we know that the family has hired a 592 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 12: very prominent civil rights attorney, and there might be a 593 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 12: civil rights component here, and civil rights always includes the 594 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 12: federal government. So if, for example, there is an allegation 595 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 12: that the local law enforcement didn't do something, or there's 596 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 12: a racial component to them not doing something, that of 597 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,240 Speaker 12: course can bring in the US Attorney's office. The second 598 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 12: reason the FBI could be brought in is that this 599 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 12: small town just can't needs help with his resources, right, 600 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,959 Speaker 12: they don't have the manpower for this type of investigation. 601 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 12: And we've already seen that they've had a couple of 602 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 12: missteps with the media, like you just said, where they 603 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 12: want to be closed lips lipped with the investigate without. 604 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 10: Giving some time. 605 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 2: Just missteps with the media. They said this was a 606 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 2: natural causes accident, no foul play. That's more than a misstep. 607 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 2: That's a CEOD cause of death, matter of death. Okay, 608 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 2: the FBI has been brought into work with law enforcement. 609 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 2: And you know what, doctor Bethany Marshall joining me, renowned 610 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 2: psychoanalystside of LA she's the author, She's on Bravo, she's 611 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 2: on Peacock Starving you hit podcast on the Counch with 612 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall. You know, I don't like the way 613 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,399 Speaker 2: Colsrude just said that they're from a small town they 614 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 2: need help. Well, you know what, not every jurisdiction is 615 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 2: New York, LA, Houston, Atlanta. They don't have this type 616 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 2: of investigation all the time. So I commend them for 617 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 2: bringing in the FBI. Okay, that said doctor Bethany, I 618 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 2: want to find out if every single person has been 619 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 2: brought in and questioned separately. I want to hear your 620 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 2: take on what you're seeing, Hey, Nancy. 621 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 13: In terms of poles Rute, he gets paid a lot 622 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 13: of money to muddy the waters, so at least he's 623 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 13: doing his job in there's very important behavioral evidence that 624 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,359 Speaker 13: is not being discussed. I don't hear it online in 625 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,760 Speaker 13: any news reports, and that is is their empathy for 626 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 13: the victim in a forensic interview. That's one of the 627 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 13: number one things we look for, is like, oh my god, 628 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,760 Speaker 13: where did he go? Somehow we lost sight of him. 629 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 13: In the online chowder, there's a lot of digital evidence. 630 00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 13: Here are the kids communicating back and forth saying, I 631 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 13: don't know, did we lose him? 632 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 2: What happened. 633 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 13: He was my best friend. I can't sleep, you know. 634 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 2: That is what we. 635 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 13: Want to look for in terms of innocence. In terms 636 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 13: of guilt, what we would look for is lack of 637 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 13: empathy towards the victim, like he was always drinking too much. 638 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 13: It's his fault, he didn't get on the boat. We 639 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 13: never liked him anyway, attempts to rationalize, attempts to form 640 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 13: a cohesive story amongst co conspirators. 641 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 10: That is going to come out in the. 642 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 13: Digital evidence, because at this point, I'm sure the investigators 643 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 13: have separated every possible perpetrator. 644 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 2: Jo Scott. Also missing in addition to the neck are 645 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 2: the lungs. Don't you think that would be an important 646 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 2: aspect of a potential drowning case. 647 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it is. And just so that we understand, 648 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 6: those lungs have been dissected. So there was an organ 649 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 6: bag that came with the body to DC, the attending 650 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 6: that the family retained actually did histo samples from all 651 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 6: of the tissues there. He even states that in his report. Now, 652 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 6: I think that what he is saying and what you 653 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 6: have to understand, there's no way after following an autopsy, 654 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 6: an initial autopsy that you can see the lungs intact. 655 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,879 Speaker 6: They have to be dissected. They've been previously dissected. Those 656 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 6: lungs probably accompanied the body in that back, unless, of 657 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 6: course they've retained the lungs as well, and that remains 658 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 6: to be seen at this point. 659 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 2: Dave mac joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter. Can he 660 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 2: shed any light on it? Dave? 661 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 15: See, what we're saying is that doctor Roger Mitchell, who 662 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,800 Speaker 15: was the independent pathologist doing the second autopsy on Nollan, 663 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 15: reported that he did not have access to the lungs 664 00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 15: or airway structures when conducting. The family requested independent autom. 665 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 2: The lungs the neck very disturbing. They are critical. They've 666 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 2: got to be analyzed by the independent medical examiner. And 667 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 2: that's not saying the first medical examiner was wrong, but 668 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 2: that's going to hold the key to the cause and 669 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 2: manner of death, I believe. And back to you, Brian Trasher, 670 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 2: what can you tell me about an offer to the 671 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 2: family regarding cadaver dogs. 672 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 7: Yeah, so, you know, obviously the online chatter started right away. 673 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 7: People were coming up with all kind of bizarre theories 674 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 7: about how he was. You know, he came back to 675 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 7: the island. He took him back out there and bumped 676 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 7: them all this kind of stuff. So we just said, hey, 677 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 7: one of our top you know, canine teams happens to 678 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,240 Speaker 7: be in Jackson, Mississippi. Jackson County, Mississippi, Jackson County. Canine 679 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,399 Speaker 7: is their name. I said, we'll be happy to have 680 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 7: these cadaver dogs go over and inspect the boat. And 681 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,320 Speaker 7: we told this to Krunch legal team, and so we'll 682 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 7: have him to inspect the boat and they'll be able 683 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 7: to tell if there's COMP on that boat. And they said, oh, well, 684 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 7: we heard they cleaned the boat. I said, now, there's 685 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 7: only one chemical that you could you could possibly get 686 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,279 Speaker 7: rid of DCOMP with, and I guarantee these people don't 687 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,399 Speaker 7: know what it is, so there's no way they could 688 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 7: be a month later. These dogs would be able to 689 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 7: smell the d COMP and they would also have Nolan 690 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 7: sent if he was actually he was. 691 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 3: On the boat alive. 692 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 7: But they would also know if there was a dead 693 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,800 Speaker 7: body on that boat. And they declined, they said, no, 694 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 7: we don't think so, so I'm not I'm not sure 695 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 7: why they didn't want to dispell that right away. We 696 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 7: would have known right away if the dead body had 697 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:28,919 Speaker 7: been on that boat. 698 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 2: Okay, Crump, why aren't you allowing the cadaver dog team 699 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:39,800 Speaker 2: onto that boat? We need to know, you know, Brian Trasure, 700 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 2: you made it sound very mysterious. What is the solution 701 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 2: is to get rid of human decomposition? 702 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 7: I'm not going to say that on the air. It 703 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,239 Speaker 7: might be somebody watching. It's trying to hide a dead 704 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 7: body as we speak. 705 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 2: But people, are you refering to mariadic acid? 706 00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 7: No, it's it's it's a it's a specific kind of 707 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 7: product that's on the market that is used. Matter of fact, 708 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 7: some of our team just went through a training in 709 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 7: Texas and one of the things they did was show 710 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 7: them how to, you know, clean out a vehicle or 711 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 7: something that had decomp on it with this particular solution. 712 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 7: And they would have had to take screws off, and 713 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 7: they would have had to be very detailed if they 714 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 7: were trying to hide something. So there's virtually no way 715 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 7: that the dogs would. 716 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 3: Not have picked this up. 717 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 2: Did they give any explanation as to why they didn't 718 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,800 Speaker 2: want the cadaver dogs on the boat? There could be 719 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 2: an explanation. Did they give one? 720 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 3: Not to us? 721 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 7: They didn't know we just assumed that that. You know, Again, 722 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,839 Speaker 7: I'm speculating, but if we would have known right away 723 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 7: that there was no dead body on that boat, it 724 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 7: might have defeated some narratives that were being pushed out 725 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:44,799 Speaker 7: there at the time. 726 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:51,400 Speaker 2: The investigation goes on and for all of the detractors 727 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 2: on either side, we're not stopping. So you're wasting your 728 00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 2: time as the case is being built. Remember, if you 729 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 2: know or think you know anything regarding this case, please 730 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 2: dial two two eight seven six' nine three zero six. 731 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 2: Three if this were your, child wouldn't you want the, 732 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 2: answers even if it brings down the roof of the? 733 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:28,240 Speaker 2: COURTHOUSE i. Would tonight we remember An american, Hero Sergeant Jeremy, 734 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 2: Brown Clark County Sheriff's, washington shot in the line of, 735 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:38,799 Speaker 2: duty leaving behind Wife jill and five. Children american Hero 736 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 2: Sergeant Jeremy. Brown thank you to our, guest but especially 737 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 2: to you for being with us. Tonight Nancy grave signing 738 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 2: off for, tonight But i'll see you tomorrow, night and until, 739 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,359 Speaker 2: then good, night. 740 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 4: Friend