1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Bresso from Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: The Jose's Department is struggling to contain the fallout over 3 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: revelations to the Trump administration issued secret subpoenas for communications 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: metadata of at least two House Democrats, members of the 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 1: news media, and then White House Counsel Don the Gan. 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: Former Attorney General Jeff Sessions, and former Attorney General William 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,639 Speaker 1: Barr claimed they didn't know about the subpoenas. On CNN 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: State of the Union, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said that's 9 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: beyond belief, so we will have to have them come 10 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: under oath to testify about that. Pelosi said that drops 11 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: Donald Trump below even Richard Nixon in terms of reprehensible 12 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: presidential behavior. An enemy's list. This is about undermining the 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: rule of law. Attorney General Merrick Garland announced today that 14 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: he's ordered a review to evaluate and toughen the department's 15 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: existing policies and procedures for obtaining records from lawmakers or 16 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: their staff. Joining me is William Banks, a professor at 17 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: Syracuse Law School. The Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, 18 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: has said that what the joice Department did here with 19 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: these subpoenas is worse than Watergate? Do you agree with that? 20 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: It's too early to say. During it's possible that this 21 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: is a big scandal, but there's so many things we 22 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: don't know about the subpoenas, about what investigation was concerning, 23 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: whether there were multiple investigations going on. It seems like 24 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: this is all connected to leak investigations, but leak investigations 25 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: that are prompted by politics more than concerns about national security. 26 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: For example, if there's a pattern here in what we've 27 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: been able to learn so far, it's that the supposed 28 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: leakers are those whose records were subpoenas and obtained were 29 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: political opponents of Donald Trump, so that the White House 30 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: was apparently enlisting the Justice Department to do its political 31 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: sniping and warfare rather than simply asking it to enforce 32 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: the law. And if that's the case, I think that's 33 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: what Speaker Pelosi is driving out. That's bad, it's very bad. 34 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: But of course, at the same time, we don't have 35 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: strict legal limits on what the Justice departments capabilities of 36 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: exercising the subpomb of power are, particularly with respect to 37 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: members of Congress or their staff well in order to 38 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: trigger a Justice Department leak investigation. Is it usually a 39 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: leak of classified material that's an issue? Yes, And that's 40 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: important I think to say, because you know, so, what 41 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: was there classified material that was leaked? Perhaps concerning the 42 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 1: Russia investigation, perhaps concerning what Moeller was looking into. Uh, 43 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: there are a number of other possitibility, certainly the media, uh, 44 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: subpoenas that were revealed about a week ago the time 45 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: cingm the Washington Post. Those have the look of the 46 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: kinds of weak investigations that were undergoing even during the 47 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: Vomit administration. But these, you know, bringing in members of Congress, 48 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: their staff, members of the families. That's uh, that's stepping 49 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: in a new direction. Yeah. Attorney General Merrick Arland said 50 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: that these seizures were done under a set of policies 51 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: that have existed for decades, But that doesn't mean it 52 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: didn't cross the line. That's right. But again, you know 53 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: that what we're talking about here probably are violations of 54 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: longstanding norms of good conduct and government and separation of 55 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: powers principles that the executive branch doesn't intrude into affairs 56 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: of Congress. But they're not written laws, they're not reduced 57 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: the statute. They're not even reduced to administrative regulation. They're 58 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: not part of the Constitution as such. But it's longstanding 59 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: that we never had to worry about in the past 60 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: until the last five years or so. Would a judge 61 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: have to approve these subpoenas, Yes, so they're probably connected 62 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: to lead investigations, and that's the justification for for exercising subpoenas. 63 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: And then also by the way that the gag orders 64 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: telling them not to telling the companies that companies not 65 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: to reveal that the records have been taking Trump's first 66 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: Attorney General Jeff Sessions, his second Attorney General William Barr, 67 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: and former Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein claimed to have 68 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: no knowledge of this. Could an investigation like this be 69 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: going on without the knowledge of the Attorney General? Not 70 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: a they're doing their jobs. One of them is either 71 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: telling a lot or weren't paying attention to what their 72 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: subordinates were doing. There was another official whose testimony is 73 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: going to be sought here, Mr John Demurs, who's head 74 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: of the National Security Division at the Department of Justice. 75 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: He announced stepping down as of next week. This was 76 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: a planned departure, not hastened I think by these events. 77 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: But the merge was another official head of NSD National 78 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: Security Division who could have authorized these subpoenas. But in 79 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: any case, Rosenstein should have known or approved the Attorney General. 80 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: This was not everyday business in the Department of Justice. 81 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: They also seized the records of journalists. That seems to 82 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 1: cause a particular problem when they're seizing journalist records in 83 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: classified leak investigations. Have journalists records been sees before? Only rarely? 84 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 1: And again you know this this is what caused I 85 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: think President Biden are locked off the tough the other 86 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: day that he thought it was a terrible policy and 87 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: that it would never ever happen again. I think it's 88 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: something like that he said. Now, of course, Attorney General 89 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: Garland and his deputy are going to be busy trying 90 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: to construct policy to put his words into practice. But 91 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 1: you may remember that then the Obama administration, Attorney General 92 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: Holder drafted a Justice Department policy that made it easier 93 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: to go oufter journalists and weak investor. And then it 94 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: was it was exercised with some vigor a number of 95 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: times more often than the Obama administration than the Republican 96 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: administrations that have proceeded. Former White House Council Don McGann. 97 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: His records were also subpoened. Does that go way beyond 98 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: to have a city White House Council's records. It's quite 99 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: bizarre to have an investigation of your own lawyer. Um 100 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,119 Speaker 1: about which again he's getting the provider apple. I believe 101 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: it was his gagged from telling him that his records 102 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: had been taking the records of his family. Uh. There 103 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: are a few possibilities there. You know, mcgon when McGan 104 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: was working on a lot of things at that period, 105 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: including investigations that were part of the Moller work, investigations 106 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: related to Paul Manaforts criminal cases as well as the 107 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: Russia investigation. So uh, and by that time, I think 108 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: in eighteen and McGann and President Trump were on the outs. 109 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: So it may be that it was just kind of 110 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: some vindictive decision by the President to try to dig 111 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: up dirt on Don McGann, which is quite ridiculous. I've 112 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: heard some Republicans say, well, look at the searches of 113 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: Rudolph Giuliani, who was the president's lawyer. Is that analogous 114 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: to what was done to Don McGann. No, I don't 115 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: think so. There's been no allegation that Mr McGann violating 116 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: the law in any way, so they're interested to know 117 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: who he was talking to, not whether he engaged in 118 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: the law violation. Not certainly not the case with Johanna. 119 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: Quite the contrary. The Justice Department Inspector General is going 120 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: to investigate this, But there are editors who want to 121 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: investigate this on the Judiciary Committee, but they may not 122 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: have They probably won't have the Republican vote that they 123 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: need in order to do that. Is it sufficient for 124 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: the Justice Department Inspector General to investigate this? Do you think? 125 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: I have a lot of confidence in Mr Horowitz, As 126 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: you know, he's done Yeoman's work over the use and 127 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,599 Speaker 1: trying to hold up the integrity of the i G 128 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 1: as an institution in the Department of Justice. We all 129 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: know that Inspectors general have been under a tremendous assault 130 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: and pressure during the Trump administration firings and the last 131 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: and the like. And Horowitz is hunk tough and it's 132 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: hun tough, even though he's had to deal with Bill 133 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 1: Barr and just Sessions. I think he'll have, of course, 134 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: much more cooperative Attorney General maw and Mary Garland. But 135 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: there he's independent, he has his staff, he has the 136 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: resources to dig and get what he needs. He'll get 137 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: deliberate about it, and I don't think anyone will question 138 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: his integrity or his independence of partisan uh politics. I 139 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: want to get your take on the way Garland is 140 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: handling some Trump issues. You know, the Justice Department seems 141 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: to be all in for protecting whoever the president was. 142 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 1: For example, they're still defending Trump in the defamation lawsuit. 143 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: They've been defending him, even releasing his tax record, the 144 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: tax records to Congress at this stage, and now there 145 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: seemed to be defending what happened here. Is there too 146 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: much defense of the prior administration all for perhaps the 147 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: idea that you know, the isn't a political justice department? Well, 148 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: I don't think it is too much. I think it 149 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: sets uh an example of nonpartisanship, of bringing the Justice 150 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: Department back to the straight and narrow posture that it's 151 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: always been supposed to have and that it's practiced for 152 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: the most part over its entire institutional history. So it 153 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: looks a little silly sometimes and and they're probably you know, 154 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: lawyers whose eyes are rolling in the back of their 155 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: head head doing some of this work, but I think 156 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: it's got to be done. Thanks Bill. That's William Banks 157 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: of Syracuse Law School. This is Bloomberg Law with June 158 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: Brussel from Bloomberg Radio. The race to be Manhattan's next 159 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: top prosecutor is taking place amid a crime surge that 160 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: has seen murders up more than sevent so far this year. 161 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: But at a candidate forum earlier this year, five of 162 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: the eight Democratic hopefuls said they supported reducing police funding 163 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: and some even call for cutting back the prosecutor's office. 164 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: Joining is Patricia Hurtado, Bloomberg Legal reporter. In the DA's 165 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: race in Manhattan, I's there are two seemingly conflicting forces 166 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: at work. That's the surgeon crime in New York and 167 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: the racial justice movement. Are candidates fighting both those. It 168 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: seems like what they're doing is they're straddling the two 169 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: issues in the best way. Basically, their campaigns want to 170 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: address it. So some of the more liberal I guess 171 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: I would call them more progressive candidates of who are 172 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: more for disabling or dismantling the existing criminal justice system 173 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: because they find there's there's too much prejudice or there's 174 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: too heavy handed prosecutions of brown and black people. So 175 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: they are having to address that they're being asked to, 176 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: and some of them are more modern it, and they 177 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: are basically saying crime is bad, So we need to 178 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: not dismantle the system. We need to really just continue 179 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: during our jobs if we're elected, and prosecute crimes. The 180 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: Trump investigation is what's been driving news about the Manhattan 181 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: d A's office for years now, but that doesn't seem 182 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: to be an issue in the campaign. Well, I some 183 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: of the candidates have said that it would be improper 184 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: for them to talk about something they know nothing about. 185 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a criminal grand jury is supposed to 186 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: operate in secrecy, right, so they've been calling witnesses, and 187 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: any candidate is not pritty to what's going on in 188 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: the grand jury. And if they make comments now ahead 189 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: of you know, say, for example, one of them said 190 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: Trump deserves to be prosecutor indicted, that would automatically make 191 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: them flodder and make them a target for if there 192 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: is a case later down the road and they get elected, 193 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: that candidate could be attacked by employers as saying this 194 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: person has a vendetta against us, and it's a wrongful prosecution. 195 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: So most of them are not there tiptoeing around the 196 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: subject in a and the best way they can. But 197 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: it is a huge It will be if it happens. 198 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: The d A who will get elected for the Manhattan 199 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: District Attorney's office so to replace Divans who's the current ZIA, 200 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: will have a huge job on their hands if that happens. 201 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: Some people are pointing out if you can imagine a 202 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: case that's so high profile like this, which really need 203 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: strong leadership at the top of the helm to withstand 204 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: all the buffeting of criticism that Trump lawyers could heap 205 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: upon the prosecutors for all kinds of reasons. Look at 206 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: the trouble. You know, the amount of litigation and fighting 207 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: and fighting subpoenas uh conceived from what Trump has already 208 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: done in other cases. He took cases and appeals on 209 00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: his taxes all the way to the Supreme Court wire. 210 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: So a d A with not that much experience might 211 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: be at a disadvantage compared to someone who can handle 212 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: the political pressure that's brought to bear up by trumpet 213 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: his lawyers as well as think of the media criticism 214 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: from both the right and the left of his despair 215 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: and all the criticism. A DA will have to be 216 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: very strong to withstand. And whether this storm of a 217 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: Trump trial, if it happens. Something that seems surprising to 218 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: me because you're in New York City. Here is there 219 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: no polling being done, no independent polling. I guess the 220 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: thing is is they are calling. Uh, there's some just 221 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: very small poles of trying to reach out to people 222 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: on the phone. It seems to me because of the pandemic, 223 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: they're not walking around talking to people, knocking on doors 224 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: because you know, they're still are social distancing requirements and 225 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: putting people at harm and walking up to strangers. I mean, 226 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: there's more campaigning we've seen in the last month and 227 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: a half or so of candidates going out to farmers markets, 228 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: but the pulling it seems to be impaired terribly by 229 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: the pandemic. And so it's almost like these tiny little 230 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: fragments of checks of like what questioning five people or 231 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: eight hundred people, you know, of the thousands that could 232 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: vote in the election are eligible to vote. Let's just 233 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: take each of the candidates and talk a little bit 234 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: about each. We're going to do it in alphabetical order 235 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: as you did in your story. There's two Hani a 236 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: Boushe who sounds like she wants the office to be 237 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: more like a social work office than a prosecuting office. Yes, 238 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: she's one of the more progressive candidates. She's very popular 239 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: with millennials. Uh. She has strongly criticized the basic process 240 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: of the system, saying that it's unfair, and she has 241 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: called for all kinds of actions you know, uh, based 242 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: the league going after the roots of crimes, she said, 243 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: And she won't prosecute you know, crimes that she say 244 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: are like sex workers people, sects of robberies. She's one 245 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: of the endorsement of Bernie Sanders Um. But you know, 246 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: she definitely wants to basically have the office go in 247 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: a different direction and not prosecute crimes that many of 248 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: us would see as a typical crime like their beating 249 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: or turnstyle jumping for crimes by youngsters, but they are 250 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: like robbery for tom. And she says she'll shrink the 251 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: District Attorney's office and there are at least two dozen 252 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: crimes that she won't prosecute. The Manhattan District Attorney's Office 253 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: handles all kinds cases. If you can imagine. I mean 254 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: they handle everything from you know, pur snatching on the 255 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: subway in Manhattan to you know, major murders. But murders 256 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: are a small fraction of what the d A office 257 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: prosecute than what police arrest for. Some have pointed out 258 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: that if the police are arresting people, then they get 259 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: to the District Attorney's office to assess what kind of 260 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: crime they will do. If I'm not mistaken, I believe 261 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: a Bushi was the one that said at a debate 262 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: that it's called the Early Case Assessment Bureau, and she 263 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: was arguing that it should not be done to assess 264 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: what kind of crimes to prosecute. It should be done. Instead, 265 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: she would reassign prosecutors to assess what the police role 266 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: was and to police wrongdoing rather than to investigate the 267 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: actual crime. So it'll be interesting if someone like Tony wins. 268 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: What's going to happen, you know, this dichotomy between the 269 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: police officers arresting people getting brought into the precincts, the 270 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 1: d A assessing what kind of case they would bring, 271 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: and then maybe the DA would just say, hey, we 272 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: don't believe in these kinds of crimes anymore. So police 273 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: are arresting, but the people arrested aren't going to get 274 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: obsecuted and let go. Now. Alvin Bragg, veteran state and 275 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: federal prosecutor, tell us about him. He has an interesting background. 276 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: He has worked in the U. S. Attorney's Office of 277 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: the Southern District with the likes of Prep Berrara, who 278 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: has endorsed him. He handled cases there, and then he 279 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: went on to work for Eric Schneiderman as in the 280 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: New York Attorney General and worked as a top deputy 281 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: to him. Um, he's a progressive. Many times he cites 282 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: out he is a black man, is been a victim 283 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: of wrongdoing by police, and he's had guns pointed to 284 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: his head both by police and perpetrators. So he has 285 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: portrayed himself as the kind of person that New Yorkers 286 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: need because he would really get what the prior generations 287 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: of Manhattan District attorneys don't understand, what it's like to 288 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: be a black man, a minority in society. He got 289 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 1: the New York Times endorsement. How important is that? It's 290 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: probably it's extraordinarily important, And um, it's hard to say 291 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: that this is the strange thing is there's so many candidates. 292 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: In fact, there's not just eight Democrats that are Republicans 293 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: in the in the race as well, and it's gonna 294 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: be interesting. Yes, Democrats out number I think tender one 295 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: Republicans in Manhattan. In Manhattan tends to vote liberally, but 296 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: it's unclear how many people will actually come out and 297 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: vote for the Manhattan District Attorney's race. So the endorsement 298 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,479 Speaker 1: of the New York Times for some people that maybe 299 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: just want a little bit of an impermeater of somebody, 300 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, what is the New York Times telling me 301 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: I should do? Oh yes, I believe in their philosophy 302 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: and their politics. I'm going to vote for this person. 303 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: So it could be a good way. Um. Of course, 304 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: the New York Times audience tracks a little, you know, 305 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 1: more liberally and possibly more upscale according to some. So 306 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: I guess for those kinds of voters to pay attention 307 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: to The New York Times, it's meaningful. Lizz Krate, who 308 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: is a veteran of the Manhattan DA's office herself, Yes, 309 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: and she has basically the most centrists of all the Democrats. 310 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: She's hardly what you would call a right wing person. 311 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: She's a very moderate and she is totally for law 312 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: and order. She has one the endorsement of police unions 313 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: and important endorsements like the PBA, the New York City 314 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: Police Benevolent Association UM. She believes there are many crimes 315 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: that her competitors, the other candidates are saying they will 316 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 1: not prosecute. She said and repeatedly that she doesn't believe 317 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: prosecutors need to declare I will never prosecute X crime 318 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: because you might find yourself with a very important case 319 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: and you've already declared you're never prosecuting it. That kind 320 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: of puts you in a box and you can't do it. 321 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: So she believes that the d A supposed to enforce 322 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: the law, and that's what she said. She's doing good 323 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: to do so. Diane Florence, another veteran of the Manhattan 324 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: d A's office. Yeah, she's one of the backing of 325 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: lots of unions, and her reputation has been she was 326 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: headed a unit that was prosecuting certain kinds of crimes 327 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: that had to do with UM building enforcement. And she's 328 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 1: pointed to her background doing these kinds of cases that 329 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: she can handle complex cases. She's gone up against very 330 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: very complicated financially complicated with multi defendants cases and still 331 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: been able to prosecute the cases. And she was at 332 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: the in the office for like twenty years. She is 333 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: on the more UH centrists. She's not as as progressive, 334 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: saying I will defront the police, I will never prosecute 335 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: certain crimes. She's been a more moderate person now. Thomas 336 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,719 Speaker 1: Kenneth is the only Republican in the race. Yeah, and 337 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: he's more in the category of I'm the d A, 338 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: I'm supposed to enforce the law and that's what I 339 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: will do. He is a Republican, however, which maybe um 340 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: there aren't as many registered Republicans in Manhattan, so it 341 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: depends on how he tracks with voters and how his 342 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: message is received. He is a former JAG prosecutor for 343 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: the government, and he's a former veteran of the army, 344 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: so he has done you know, military career Iraq War veterans. 345 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: He is basically espoused a look, my job as a 346 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: d enforced the law, and he is very critical of 347 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: the more progressive candidates on the far left and the 348 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: d a's race. On the Democratic side, Lucy Lang is 349 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: another veteran Manhattan DA, but she's also a reformed candidate 350 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: has that working. She's actually espousing both ideas that she 351 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,959 Speaker 1: can reform with within, and she has done it in 352 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: the past. She's talked about she's a former Manhattan d 353 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: A under Side Dance. She was the top ranking d 354 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: A there. She handled homicides and other kinds of complex 355 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: gang cases, and she has said that she has come 356 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: up with systematic ways to address problems. So she came 357 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: up with an initiative in the office that later on 358 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: ended up being UM. It's called the Institute for Innovation 359 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. So she's pointing out, look, 360 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: I was in the system, and I already came up 361 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: with these progressive ideas, and this is what the office 362 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: can do. So it's her mantra. Appears to be changed 363 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 1: from within, and I can be progressive as well as 364 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: still do the job. Eliza Orleans, she's a longtime public defender, 365 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: but a lot of people know her as a reality 366 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: show contestant. Yeah. I mean, it's unclear how many of 367 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: her Twitter followers from the reality TV show She Wasn't 368 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: Survivor and if any of them are actual New York 369 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: vote Manhattan voter UM very popular. A lot of social 370 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: media que profile, and she is also a very one 371 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: of the more progressive candidates the same very critical of 372 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: the entire criminal justice system. And there's Dan Court, who 373 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: is a state assemblyman. Dan Court is an Manhattan assemblyman 374 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: for the State Assembly. He's been a defense lawyers, but 375 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: his work in the system has been as a as 376 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: a civil lawyer and a criminal lawyer. So he did 377 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: personal injury work for civil litigation, and he did pro 378 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: bono low income tenants in his facing addiction. He's been 379 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: critical of the system that it's out of control, UH 380 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: and there's too many minorities getting unfairly prosecuted by the system. 381 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: So he's on the spectrum of the more UH progressive 382 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: candidates running who wants to see systemic change in the system. 383 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: They they're not happy with the way it is right 384 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: now and they would like to see some massive of 385 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: her haul. Last, but the most well funded is Tally 386 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: Farhati and Weinstein, a former federal prosecutor whose husband is 387 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: a hedge fund manager. She has quite the resume, Rhodes scholar. 388 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: You know, she has a story as an immigrant. Like 389 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 1: Connie Abushi, she and her family fled Iran. She says 390 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: um came here and she clerked for Sandrade O'Connor and 391 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: worked for Merritt Garland when he was a federala Pellate 392 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: Court judge. She worked as special counsel to Stand Attorney 393 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 1: General Eric Holder, and then for Lauretta Lynch she took over, 394 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: and then she went to the Brooklyn U s Attorney's 395 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: office where she handled crimes UH and then went to 396 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: go work as special counsel to Erik Gonzalez, the Brooklyn 397 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: District Attorney, where she worked on a reviewing cases to 398 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: see any of their wrongful prosecution. So she's basically also 399 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: straddling this. Her point to are that she has the experienced, 400 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: the expertise, and the know how of how the federal 401 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: system works. That she also has this great resume, and 402 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: she's worked for a district attorney who is also progressive. 403 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: The New York Daily News endorsed her. From my personal experience, 404 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: I've gotten more flyers from her than any other candidate. 405 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: She has lots of TV ads. Hasn't she outspent every 406 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: other candidate in the race. The latest numbers, according to 407 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: the Daily News and the City Website, she's put in 408 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: recently eight million dollars an incusion of her own money 409 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: of eight million dollars to her campaigner. That goes way 410 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: past the most raised by any other candidate, which I 411 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 1: believe tops at two million dollars. Thanks so much, Patty. 412 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: That's Patricia Hurtado, Bloomberg Legal Reporter, and that's it for 413 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: this edition of the Bloomberg Law Show. Remember you can 414 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: always at the latest legal news on our Bloomberg Law Podcast. 415 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: You can find them on at podcast Spotify and at 416 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: www dot Bloomberg dot com, slash podcast slash Law. I'm 417 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 1: June Brusso and you're listening to Woomberg