1
00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,519
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,040
Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob.

3
00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:17,880
Speaker 3: Lamb and this is Joe McCormick.

4
00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:20,319
Speaker 2: And with this installment, we're going to be finishing out

5
00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,160
Speaker 2: Star Trek Week here in the Stuff to Blow Your

6
00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:27,720
Speaker 2: Mind podcast feed. So we are, as promised, going to

7
00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,720
Speaker 2: be talking about a Star Trek movie. And it was

8
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,000
Speaker 2: hard to pick our first actual Star Trek film to

9
00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,360
Speaker 2: cover here on Weird House Cinema, as the Trek films

10
00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,400
Speaker 2: give us a fair amount of variety to choose from.

11
00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,320
Speaker 2: Do we go with one of the weirder installments, maybe

12
00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,800
Speaker 2: one of the others that's kind of a flawed film

13
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,160
Speaker 2: but with some interesting ideas or a captivating performance hidden

14
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,880
Speaker 2: in there. Do we start at the beginning with Star

15
00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,479
Speaker 2: Trek the motion picture? Or do we go with what

16
00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,680
Speaker 2: many consider to be the finest Trek film of them all.

17
00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,520
Speaker 2: That's ultimately where we landed here to discuss nineteen eighty

18
00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,720
Speaker 2: two's Star Trek two, The Wrath of.

19
00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,440
Speaker 3: Con This was a great pick, Rob And Yeah, I've

20
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,280
Speaker 3: seen this movie many times over the years, always enjoyed it,

21
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,319
Speaker 3: and I loved it again this week before we go

22
00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:19,200
Speaker 3: on to discuss the movie itself in detail. One thing

23
00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,160
Speaker 3: I thought it would be important to do here at

24
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:26,440
Speaker 3: the top is understand this film's role in Star Trek history,

25
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,720
Speaker 3: because I think you can make a really solid argument

26
00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,319
Speaker 3: that without the Wrath of con we wouldn't have a

27
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,360
Speaker 3: lot of the Trek that came after, believe it or not,

28
00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,160
Speaker 3: in the timeline where this movie didn't exist, or the

29
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,880
Speaker 3: same film in its place in the sequence was not

30
00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,840
Speaker 3: as good. I think Star Trek might not be a

31
00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:47,120
Speaker 3: very big deal today.

32
00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I don't think this is a crazy idea

33
00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,440
Speaker 2: by any stretch of the imagination. This one is important, right.

34
00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm not claiming originality in this idea. The other

35
00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:59,559
Speaker 3: people have expressed this before.

36
00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:00,520
Speaker 2: So.

37
00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:05,680
Speaker 3: The original Star Trek TV series ran on NBC for

38
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:11,080
Speaker 3: only three seasons from nineteen sixty six to nineteen sixty nine.

39
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:11,960
Speaker 2: It's kind of.

40
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,119
Speaker 3: Hard to believe that because of how big its cultural

41
00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,880
Speaker 3: impact has become, but it was canceled after only seventy

42
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,800
Speaker 3: nine episodes due to poor ratings. In fact, NBC was

43
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,520
Speaker 3: planning to cancel it after the second season, but there

44
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,440
Speaker 3: was a letter writing campaign by the show's relatively small

45
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,920
Speaker 3: base of devoted fans, they were able to convince the

46
00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,280
Speaker 3: network to revive it for one more season before it

47
00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,160
Speaker 3: was finally brought to an end. However, in a somewhat

48
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:44,720
Speaker 3: unusual twist, Star Trek became way more popular after it

49
00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,280
Speaker 3: was canceled because of reruns. Old episodes of the show

50
00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,160
Speaker 3: were leased to local TV networks around the country and

51
00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,200
Speaker 3: in fact around the world, where they ran in syndication,

52
00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,880
Speaker 3: sometimes in like afternoon time slots where kids could watch them,

53
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,040
Speaker 3: and the jo became much more popular than it had

54
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,400
Speaker 3: ever been during its original run. During the decade after

55
00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,000
Speaker 3: the show was canceled, you started to see the rise

56
00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,800
Speaker 3: of trekkie culture. There would be fan clubs and conventions

57
00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,440
Speaker 3: and all that stuff at this point, based almost entirely

58
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,920
Speaker 3: on reruns of the three seasons of the original series.

59
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,880
Speaker 3: There was some other stuff, like there was a Saturday

60
00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,839
Speaker 3: morning animated Star Trek series that ran from seventy three

61
00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,720
Speaker 3: to seventy four, but that never achieved the fan base

62
00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,639
Speaker 3: of the original show, And there were also some minor

63
00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,400
Speaker 3: things for the real hardcore fans. There were like episode

64
00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,080
Speaker 3: novelizations and original novels and stuff, but these were fairly niche,

65
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,000
Speaker 3: so a lot of people in the seventies had a

66
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,400
Speaker 3: fondness or at least a nostalgia for the Trek universe

67
00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,160
Speaker 3: and its characters, but for most of that decade there

68
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 3: was not much new to consume, especially for the more

69
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,640
Speaker 3: casual fans if you weren't a hardcore fan getting into

70
00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,440
Speaker 3: the novels or something. By the mid to late seventies,

71
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,080
Speaker 3: users were interested in trying to cash in on that

72
00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,160
Speaker 3: fan base and revive the property. There were various attempts

73
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,440
Speaker 3: to put together a movie project or to start a

74
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,640
Speaker 3: new network TV series, which at one point in development

75
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,440
Speaker 3: was called Star Trek Phase two. That TV series never happened,

76
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,039
Speaker 3: but the idea for the unmade pilot of that series

77
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,440
Speaker 3: is what would eventually become the first official film, which

78
00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,239
Speaker 3: was Star Trek the Motion Picture in nineteen seventy nine.

79
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,960
Speaker 3: Original series creator Gene Roddenberry was heavily involved, and the

80
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,960
Speaker 3: film was directed by Robert Wise, who was a very

81
00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,200
Speaker 3: respected filmmaker with a lot of critically acclaimed movies in

82
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,640
Speaker 3: his past, even in the sci fi genre. He made

83
00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,320
Speaker 3: the original The Day the Earth Stood Still in nineteen

84
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,919
Speaker 3: fifty one. You know gort Klatu Barada Nikto and He

85
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,200
Speaker 3: was also known for hit musical films in the sixties

86
00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,760
Speaker 3: like The Sound of Music and West Side Story. So

87
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,560
Speaker 3: they initially had trouble putting this movie together, Rob, I

88
00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,440
Speaker 3: don't know how much you've read about like the chaos

89
00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,840
Speaker 3: of Star Trek the Motion Picture coming together, Like some

90
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,240
Speaker 3: members of the main cast did not want to come back.

91
00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,960
Speaker 3: Leonard Nimoy was not happy about not getting residuals he

92
00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,520
Speaker 3: believed he was owed relating to the original run. I

93
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,640
Speaker 3: think the idea was that somebody had been making money

94
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,440
Speaker 3: off of using his likeness in like beer commercials or something,

95
00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,880
Speaker 3: and I don't know. He was not happy with the

96
00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,360
Speaker 3: owners of the franchise, and so producer Jeffrey Katzenberg at

97
00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,919
Speaker 3: the time had had to go beg Leonard Nimoy in

98
00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,520
Speaker 3: person to come join the film, but they eventually got

99
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,000
Speaker 3: all the main cast on board. Unfortunately, Star Trek the

100
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,240
Speaker 3: Motion Picture was widely seen as a disappointment. It actually

101
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,000
Speaker 3: it did well at the box office. It made a

102
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,839
Speaker 3: good amount of money, but its profit margin wasn't great

103
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:53,080
Speaker 3: because it had been an incredibly expensive production and a

104
00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,799
Speaker 3: very chaotic, disorganized production, with things like constant last minute

105
00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 3: script rewrites and repurpose of things, and a lot of

106
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,279
Speaker 3: people were not happy with the aesthetic of it, with

107
00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,000
Speaker 3: the costumes and the sets, and just generally both Trek

108
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,240
Speaker 3: fans and mainstream critics did not love it. It was

109
00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,440
Speaker 3: criticized for being slow moving. I've heard people even describe

110
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,640
Speaker 3: it as sleep inducing, like you put it on if

111
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,920
Speaker 3: you want to take a nap, and for not being

112
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 3: very focused on character or drama instead being a showcase

113
00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,160
Speaker 3: for special effects. Now that complaint, if you're not very

114
00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,640
Speaker 3: familiar with Star Trek, that complaint might be a little

115
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,040
Speaker 3: confusing because you might think, well, Star Trek is spacefaring

116
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,880
Speaker 3: science fiction, Isn't it supposed to be that there's like

117
00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,240
Speaker 3: a big focus on special effects. As I've said in

118
00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,440
Speaker 3: the other episodes of this week, I'm not like the

119
00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,960
Speaker 3: most well versed Star Trek fan, but even just given

120
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,400
Speaker 3: what I do know, I'm pretty confident in saying the

121
00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,680
Speaker 3: answer is no. Actually, the appeal of Star Trek is

122
00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,480
Speaker 3: and usually has been based on the writing. The writing,

123
00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,320
Speaker 3: the characters, and the chemistry of the cast. Like the

124
00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,040
Speaker 3: original series has a lot of care is matic props

125
00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,120
Speaker 3: and costumes, but it was never heavily focused on big

126
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,360
Speaker 3: visual spectacles Like I think a lot of Star Trek

127
00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,560
Speaker 3: episodes you could think of as almost kind of native

128
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,320
Speaker 3: bottle episodes. They'd just be characters in the room or

129
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,320
Speaker 3: in the bridge that doing things. Yeah.

130
00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, with some of your most memorable scenes being scenes

131
00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,080
Speaker 2: that are about character development or just sort of batting

132
00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,280
Speaker 2: around whatever the ethical or philosophical idea happens to be

133
00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:25,160
Speaker 2: in that episode.

134
00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, talking about ideas, talking about how to solve a problem.

135
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,800
Speaker 3: The debating thing is trying to convince people of things,

136
00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,320
Speaker 3: that sort of thing. So after the motion picture comes

137
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,840
Speaker 3: out in nineteen seventy nine, Star Trek was kind of languishing.

138
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,600
Speaker 3: It had been more than a decade since the show ended.

139
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,960
Speaker 3: Attempts to put together a new TV series had failed,

140
00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,560
Speaker 3: and you had this big, very expensive movie project that

141
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,600
Speaker 3: they'd thrown everything at and it was not well loved.

142
00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,880
Speaker 3: Then comes the second film in the Star Trek movie franchise,

143
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,120
Speaker 3: today's movie, The Wrath of Khan. This time, the producer's

144
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,600
Speaker 3: approach was essentially the exact opposite of what they had

145
00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,080
Speaker 3: done with the previous movie. Producer Harve Bennett brought in

146
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,640
Speaker 3: writer and director Nicholas Meyer, who had made several things

147
00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 3: At this point, he made some well regarded Sherlock Holmes stuff,

148
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 3: like he had written original Sherlock Holmes novels and adapted

149
00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,800
Speaker 3: one of his novels, The Seven Percent Solution, for the film,

150
00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,760
Speaker 3: and he also wrote and directed tying into last week's

151
00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,440
Speaker 3: Weird House Cinema movie the HG. Wells Time Machine Jack

152
00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,920
Speaker 3: the Ripper mash up film Time after Time from nineteen

153
00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,600
Speaker 3: seventy nine with Who It's Got David Warner and Malcolm McDowell,

154
00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,160
Speaker 3: who plays Yeah, Yeah, we've done that on Weird House

155
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:42,839
Speaker 3: Cinema before.

156
00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:43,360
Speaker 4: That.

157
00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:47,880
Speaker 3: One's fantastic. It's a movie with a similar storytelling sensibility

158
00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,920
Speaker 3: to Wrath of con Actually, it's like an emotional drama

159
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:56,680
Speaker 3: with a big heart. And anyway, so they brought Nicholas

160
00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,040
Speaker 3: Meyron and the plan was to get back all of

161
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,120
Speaker 3: the original cast, but to otherwise keep the film as

162
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,400
Speaker 3: tightly budgeted as possible, and instead of focusing on big

163
00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,120
Speaker 3: special effects and visual spectacle, to focus on writing and

164
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:14,280
Speaker 3: character to create a gripping emotional drama. And I think

165
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,640
Speaker 3: the filmmakers succeeded in this spectacularly. They created continuity with

166
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:23,240
Speaker 3: the now beloved Long Ago original series by crafting the

167
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,040
Speaker 3: movie as a direct sequel to a popular episode of

168
00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,800
Speaker 3: the show, which was Space Seed, the episode featuring the

169
00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:37,040
Speaker 3: iconic villain con Noonian Sing played by a wildly charismatic

170
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:41,640
Speaker 3: Ricardo Montalbon, who also came back for the film. He's

171
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,440
Speaker 3: this character on a mad quest for Melvillian revenge against

172
00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,920
Speaker 3: Captain Kirk. And I think it's interesting that you can

173
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,760
Speaker 3: read the themes of this movie as applied to the characters,

174
00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,760
Speaker 3: especially to Captain Kirk himself, themes about aging and irrelevance

175
00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,840
Speaker 3: and the need to find your once again through sacrifice

176
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,040
Speaker 3: and struggle. You can read those themes as applying to

177
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,800
Speaker 3: the Star Trek franchise itself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the

178
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,400
Speaker 3: movie was a huge hit. It had like an extremely

179
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,880
Speaker 3: successful box office take. It was loved by both Trekis

180
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,160
Speaker 3: and mainstream critics and audiences, and the success of this

181
00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,280
Speaker 3: film breathed new life into Star Trek as a whole.

182
00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,760
Speaker 3: It got old fans excited again, it generated interest from

183
00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,440
Speaker 3: entirely new fans. It paved the way to several new

184
00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,880
Speaker 3: films with the original cast and New Trek on TV,

185
00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,240
Speaker 3: such as Star Trek The Next Generation, which debuted in

186
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:39,719
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty seven and might well never have existed if

187
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,760
Speaker 3: the second Star Trek film had been another dud. So

188
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,400
Speaker 3: Wrath of Cohn is its own film. It can be

189
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,839
Speaker 3: appreciated on its own terms. In fact, I don't think

190
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:50,720
Speaker 3: you even need to be a Star Trek fan to

191
00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,080
Speaker 3: love Wrath of Khan. But it's also important to understand

192
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,640
Speaker 3: this film as the story that made Star Trek feel

193
00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:58,720
Speaker 3: young and alive again.

194
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah, And it's it's amazing because, like, clearly they

195
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,319
Speaker 2: had this target set and they managed to really make

196
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,920
Speaker 2: the perfect picture to achieve those goals. Wrath of con

197
00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,680
Speaker 2: is just such a tight and effective movie, just a

198
00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,920
Speaker 2: strategically charged and aimed photon torpedo that yeah, is aimed

199
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,160
Speaker 2: at knocking out multiple targets, diehard Trek fans, casual fans,

200
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,560
Speaker 2: the box office, and even critics. Rewatching the movie, it

201
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,160
Speaker 2: was really interesting to think about all the elements that

202
00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,960
Speaker 2: come together here so well and again in a way

203
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,400
Speaker 2: that's going to appeal to people who know Star Trek

204
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,920
Speaker 2: inside and out by this point, and also people who

205
00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,240
Speaker 2: didn't know anything about it and they're like, Star Trek

206
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,400
Speaker 2: two sounds interesting. Do I need to see Star Trek one.

207
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:44,600
Speaker 2: Now you're good, go on in and enjoy the show.

208
00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,160
Speaker 3: Do I even need to see the episode that this

209
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 3: is a direct sequel to No, not really.

210
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,760
Speaker 2: Not really, it's it's I think it's rewarding to do.

211
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,640
Speaker 2: So that's what we both did for this week, and

212
00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:57,640
Speaker 2: we may refer back to it, but you don't have

213
00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:58,360
Speaker 2: to have seen it.

214
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,160
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, I'd say it adds to your enjoyment of

215
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:02,880
Speaker 3: the movie. But I saw this movie. I've seen this

216
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,280
Speaker 3: movie probably five or six times before I ever saw

217
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,840
Speaker 3: the saw the episode.

218
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,920
Speaker 2: All right, So just touching on on a few things

219
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,600
Speaker 2: that really stood out to me in this rewatch. As

220
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,800
Speaker 2: we've mentioned already, just tightly plotted. Nothing feels rushed. But

221
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,360
Speaker 2: mind you we have let's see what one hundred and

222
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 2: thirteen minute runtime here compared to the one hundred and

223
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,920
Speaker 2: thirty two minute runtime of its predecessor. On the whole,

224
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,360
Speaker 2: this lands that in the middle of Star Trek films

225
00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,320
Speaker 2: when you're looking at their length, and it's still shorter

226
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,280
Speaker 2: than every single Star Wars movie.

227
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:35,359
Speaker 3: That's interesting.

228
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:35,600
Speaker 2: You know.

229
00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,120
Speaker 3: One thing I really noticed on coming back to this

230
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 3: movie is if you map out the plot beats, if

231
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,360
Speaker 3: you just say what actually happens beginning to end. The

232
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,720
Speaker 3: story is actually smaller and tighter in scale than it

233
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,839
Speaker 3: feels when you like reflect back on the movie. When

234
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,560
Speaker 3: you think about it, it feels like a big story,

235
00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:00,360
Speaker 3: but it's really not. It's like a pretty pretty height

236
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,600
Speaker 3: just a tense couple of interactions between the heroic Enterprise

237
00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 3: crew and the villain, and it's all over pretty fast.

238
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,440
Speaker 3: I think it takes place in less than a couple

239
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,000
Speaker 3: of days of time within the story, you know.

240
00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is a film that feels

241
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,600
Speaker 2: so epic, and yet it is lacking some of those

242
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,560
Speaker 2: elements that we otherwise associate with epic storytelling, like multiple

243
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,600
Speaker 2: multiple settings and factions and a whole host of characters.

244
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:31,760
Speaker 2: When you really look at it, a lot of stuff

245
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,960
Speaker 2: is stripped down, but it's stripped down to the basics.

246
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,840
Speaker 2: You know. It's like a race car, you know. So,

247
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,680
Speaker 2: for instance, we have a tight focus on character here,

248
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,640
Speaker 2: and mainly that means focusing on Captain Kirk. He's our

249
00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,439
Speaker 2: NeXT's point. He is, without a doubt, our protagonist. I've

250
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,679
Speaker 2: heard it pointed out before. It's like sometimes you can say, oh, well,

251
00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:55,600
Speaker 2: this movie has multiple protagonists, and the correction would come

252
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,800
Speaker 2: well sort of. But from a writing standpoint, there's one protagonist.

253
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:05,160
Speaker 2: Yeah and yeah, it's clear that that is Kirk. And

254
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,959
Speaker 2: you know it's easy to develop or acquire Kirk shatner weariness.

255
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,640
Speaker 2: I know I've acquired it or developed it at times before.

256
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,880
Speaker 2: But as far as this picture goes, his character is

257
00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 2: presented with I think a real depth and grace, and

258
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,000
Speaker 2: Shatner gives a really solid performance here as a man

259
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,920
Speaker 2: halfway through life's journey, looking back on his fading successes,

260
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,560
Speaker 2: even as his failures seem to be coming back to

261
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:30,560
Speaker 2: haunt him.

262
00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:31,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

263
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,560
Speaker 2: So not every crew member really gets to shine here,

264
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,800
Speaker 2: as we'll discuss here in a few minutes, but you know,

265
00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,600
Speaker 2: the ones who do are tightly defined by who they

266
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,800
Speaker 2: are in relation to Captain Kirk. Okay. On top of that,

267
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 2: we have a very tight faction and species focus here.

268
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,360
Speaker 2: So I love the complexity of the Trek universe, and

269
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,520
Speaker 2: lord knows I love alien species. This film, however, concerns

270
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,800
Speaker 2: itself almost exclusively with humans. We have two vulcan characters

271
00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:59,880
Speaker 2: on top of that, and I don't think any other

272
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,800
Speaker 2: aliens except for the non intelligent SETI Alpha Eels, which

273
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,160
Speaker 2: are fabulous monsters and are just more or less a

274
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 2: tool of the antagonist.

275
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,600
Speaker 3: I saw I think part of this movie maybe on

276
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,120
Speaker 3: TV when I was younger, and the thing that really

277
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,800
Speaker 3: made an impression on me with the Eels, of course, yes,

278
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,560
Speaker 3: I mean, oh, could it not be the eels.

279
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's gonna be a fun scene to talk about.

280
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,840
Speaker 3: I was too young to appreciate the moby Dick references

281
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,640
Speaker 3: that I got the Eels got through.

282
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. And as far as factions go, it's again largely

283
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 2: just human members of the Federation versus augmented human followers

284
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,720
Speaker 2: of Cohn. And this choice makes perfect sense given the plot.

285
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't limit or downgrade the universe, but

286
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,280
Speaker 2: it also would seem to make it all the more

287
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,360
Speaker 2: easily digestible. Again, you don't need to know what the

288
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,120
Speaker 2: different factions are. You don't need to be able to

289
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,640
Speaker 2: tell Klingons from me from Romulans because they're not even

290
00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 2: in the picture. And then on top of all this,

291
00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,480
Speaker 2: we have a tight space time focus, so you'relready mentioned

292
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,960
Speaker 2: how everything takes place over the course of a few days,

293
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,840
Speaker 2: and then on top of that no time travel in

294
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 2: this way. But also as far as space is concerned,

295
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,240
Speaker 2: everything's pretty localized. You know, this is a franchise that

296
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,920
Speaker 2: is about traveling and traveling far through the cosmos, but

297
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,400
Speaker 2: here all the action plays out in what we might

298
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,160
Speaker 2: think of as a single neighborhood, largely concerned with three

299
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,680
Speaker 2: locations within reasonably short distance of each other and few players.

300
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,640
Speaker 2: It comes down to just two ships. And on top

301
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,640
Speaker 2: of these broad strokes, yeah, we have the franchise's most

302
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,760
Speaker 2: charismatic villain, some spooky locations for the field work, and

303
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,120
Speaker 2: we do get some classics Star Trek fisticuffs. But the

304
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,840
Speaker 2: movie really takes the Hornblower and Space premise to the

305
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,840
Speaker 2: next level and delivers arguably the best naval battle in

306
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,200
Speaker 2: Star Trek media history, the Battle of the Mutara Nebula,

307
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,800
Speaker 2: a tense cat and mouse game between two starships that

308
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 2: draws on Napoleonic naval combat, twentieth century submarine combat, and

309
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,800
Speaker 2: then of course you know all the sci fi embellishments

310
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:01,640
Speaker 2: that you would expect.

311
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:06,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, his pattern indicates two dimensional thinking, yes, but I

312
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,320
Speaker 3: agree with all of that. Yeah, the movie, I think,

313
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,320
Speaker 3: just because it is so emotionally big, comes to feel

314
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,520
Speaker 3: big in your mind. But actually, if you look at

315
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,280
Speaker 3: all of the elements of the storytelling. Its tight, tight, tight.

316
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,720
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's personal even and that would be my elevator

317
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,720
Speaker 2: pitch Star Trek two. This time it's personal Star Trek

318
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 2: two Cruise Control. All right, let's go ahead and listen

319
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,359
Speaker 2: to some trailer audio here. This is from Believe. This

320
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,600
Speaker 2: is a TV trailer and I just really, I really

321
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,000
Speaker 2: love the narration of this one.

322
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,159
Speaker 4: The wonders of the universe, the dangers of space, the

323
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,720
Speaker 4: challenge of the unknown, the courage of a warrior, the

324
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,200
Speaker 4: vengeance of a madman, kill him, the seed of new life,

325
00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,560
Speaker 4: the hand of death, the plan of a genius, The

326
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 4: Wrath of con Star Trek two, The Wrath of Khan

327
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:07,480
Speaker 4: rated PG.

328
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:14,480
Speaker 2: Now showing out a theater near you. All right, well,

329
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 2: if you would like to jump out and watch Wrath

330
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,640
Speaker 2: of Khan before proceeding with the rest of this episode, hey,

331
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,160
Speaker 2: go for it. It's widely available. There's some very nice

332
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,119
Speaker 2: blue rays out there. This is one of those films

333
00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,680
Speaker 2: that has come out on every format imaginable since its release.

334
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,960
Speaker 2: For Star Trek Week, I personally signed up for Paramount

335
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 2: Plus so I could dig into any and all Trek

336
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,439
Speaker 2: media that I might require, and they seem to have

337
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,200
Speaker 2: everything that is not a paid endorsement, but they do

338
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,120
Speaker 2: have seemingly all the Trek or a lot of Trek.

339
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, there's a lot of Star Trek on there.

340
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,280
Speaker 3: They have that animated series from the seventies, have you

341
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:46,919
Speaker 3: ever seen that.

342
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 2: I've only glanced at that one, and I've watched more

343
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,239
Speaker 2: of the more recent animated series. We watched that as

344
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,240
Speaker 2: a family, and that one was pretty fun. So you know,

345
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,119
Speaker 2: it's gotten to the point where Star Trek is a

346
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,440
Speaker 2: wide enough tent that you know there's different stuff for everybody.

347
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:07,879
Speaker 2: So yeah, and all thanks to this film. You know,

348
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,399
Speaker 2: who knows what sort of timeline we'd be in without it.

349
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 2: All right, well, let's jump into a discussion of the

350
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 2: people involved here. I am going to note here that

351
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 2: we're going to be touching on some folks that we've

352
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 2: covered before on the show for different movies, and especially

353
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,000
Speaker 2: in those cases, I'm going to probably be a little

354
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 2: more brief and refer back to those episodes. And there

355
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,639
Speaker 2: are also certain players we may come back to again

356
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,880
Speaker 2: in discussing a picture that you know, where it might

357
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 2: benefit us to be a little more focused on that individual.

358
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,400
Speaker 2: So at the top here Yeah. The director once more

359
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,719
Speaker 2: is Nicholas Meyer born nineteen forty five. We previously discussed

360
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 2: him in our episode on the nineteen seventy nine film

361
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 2: Time after Time. His first feature film was a director,

362
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,440
Speaker 2: and Wrath of Khan was the follow up after con

363
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 2: he made the he made for TV Nuclear Holocaust film

364
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 2: the day after in nineteen eighty three, and he would

365
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,439
Speaker 2: return to the Trek director's chair for nineteen ninety one's

366
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 2: The Undiscovered Country, which I have not seen that one

367
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,639
Speaker 2: in a long time, but I remember liking at the

368
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,399
Speaker 2: more or less around the time of its release.

369
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 3: Wait is that four or six? Is it six? The

370
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 3: one with the Klingon chernobyl.

371
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 2: This is the one there's floating Klingon blood and it's pink. Yeah. Yeah,

372
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 2: that's how long ago it's been since I saw it.

373
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,479
Speaker 2: That's the almost the only thing I remember about it.

374
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember that one. It's got some sort of

375
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,240
Speaker 3: an in universe equivalent of the fall of the Soviet Union,

376
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 3: but it's like the Klingon Empire, and yeah, I remember

377
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:41,239
Speaker 3: liking it.

378
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'll have to come back to that one

379
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 2: at some point, but at any rate, Yeah, Nicholas Meyer.

380
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 2: He remained active as a writer and producer, and he

381
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 2: apparently did some uncredited work on the screenplay here. And

382
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 2: as we get into the screenplay here, we were talking

383
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 2: about this off Mike. It is amazing that despite the

384
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,880
Speaker 2: fact that we have several cooks in the kitchen here,

385
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,400
Speaker 2: the resulting dish is so focused and so lean.

386
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does not seem like a script with this

387
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 3: mini writers should be this cohesive.

388
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, And of course we should acknowledge that Gene Roddenberry

389
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 2: he of course had the original vision for Star Trek.

390
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,399
Speaker 2: He's an executive consultant on this film, but he did

391
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,679
Speaker 2: not directly write anything here. Roddenberry lived nineteen twenty one

392
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 2: through nineteen ninety one. All right. One of the screenplay

393
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 2: credits goes to Jack B. Sowards born nineteen twenty nine

394
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,120
Speaker 2: died in two thousand and seven. Mainly a TV writer,

395
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 2: His other film credits include seventy three's Delivers from Evils,

396
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 2: seventy four's Death Cruise and Cry Panic, and seventy eight's

397
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 2: Desperate Women. He also wrote an episode of Star Trek

398
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:50,199
Speaker 2: The Next Generation where Silence has Lease. And then you

399
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 2: mentioned Harve Bennett already. He has a screenplay in story credit,

400
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 2: and he was also the bro one of the producers.

401
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 2: He lived nineteen thirty through twenty fifteen. Emmy Award winning

402
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 2: TV writer and producer of the seventies who worked on

403
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 2: Let's See the Mod Squad and later The Powers of

404
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 2: Matthew Starr and Time Tracks. As a producer, he was

405
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 2: behind TV's The Six Billion Dollar Man and was a

406
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:16,400
Speaker 2: producer on the following three Trek films. He was also

407
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 2: the sole screenwriter on this film's follow up, nineteen eighty

408
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 2: four's The Search for Spock. All right, let's get into

409
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 2: the cast here, starting of course, with James T. Kirk,

410
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 2: played here by William Shatner born nineteen thirty one. We've

411
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 2: discussed Shatner previously in our episode in nineteen seventy five

412
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 2: is The Devil's Rain.

413
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 3: Oh Yes, the cult melt movie, Yeah, Yeah, yeah, and again.

414
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: Shatner's Kirk is such an icon of classic track and

415
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 2: its film spinoffs, and in an icon that I think

416
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,360
Speaker 2: is often distorted in certain ways by the way we

417
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 2: celebrate and lampoon the character, you know, aspects of the

418
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 2: performance we sometimes have some fun with, you know, especially

419
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 2: when it is into overacting. And also there's a fair

420
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 2: amount of poking fun regarding Shatner himself. But I get again,

421
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 2: I think, especially in this film, you see him perhaps

422
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 2: at his best. Ye Meyer is generally given a lot

423
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 2: of credit for this kind of time, sounding like he's

424
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: almost her zogging Shatner a bit with subsequent takes, you know,

425
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 2: wearing him down, you know, because the way I've heard

426
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 2: it put is like, you know, at first, Shatner comes

427
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 2: in like in full Shatner mode in all of you know,

428
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 2: the best and worst ways. But then subsequent takes he

429
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 2: gets a little tired and that plays into like the

430
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 2: weariness of the character. But at the same time, you

431
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 2: also in subsequent takes, according to Meyer, he gives Shatner

432
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 2: time just to embody the character more and it becomes

433
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 2: more naturalistic and so so yeah, I don't want to

434
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 2: take any credit away from Shatner here. He's absolutely delivering

435
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 2: the goods on his end, and the result is excellent. Like,

436
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 2: I think Shatner's really good, and this which is key

437
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 2: because like this movie is about Captain Kirk.

438
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I also think he's really good. He just as

439
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 3: you said, there are things about his performance that, especially

440
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 3: when taken out of context, can be kind of funny

441
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 3: in ways that they maybe weren't supposed to be, Like

442
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 3: some of his most expressive the shouting of con.

443
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, that that moment especially, it's it's kind

444
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: of ironic that that one is so celebrated and so

445
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 2: memed because it's just this one high energy moment and

446
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 2: one with we can also caveat in a bit. It's

447
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 2: I would argue, it's not real even really cheesy if

448
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 2: you take it in context. But this is one moment

449
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 2: out of a performance that's otherwise very believable and grounded.

450
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 3: There are well, there are ways almost that the writing

451
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 3: itself kind of incorporates ways that Shatner could be a

452
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 3: little blustery and smug sometimes in his performance. Like there

453
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 3: is a great scene in the movie. It's one of

454
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 3: my favorite scenes. Actually, it's the scene where the Enterprise

455
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 3: is first ambushed by the Reliant under the command of Con.

456
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 3: We'll talk about the scene when we get into the

457
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 3: plot section. But one of the younger trainee officers, the

458
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 3: character Savic played by Christy Alli, tries to you know,

459
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 3: quote regulations at Kirk, you know, saying like, hey, you know,

460
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 3: aren't we supposed to do it by the book doing this,

461
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: and they ignore her and they just go in and

462
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 3: if they it turns out, if they had listened to her,

463
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 3: Con would not have been able to get the better

464
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 3: of them like he did. But because Kirk is kind

465
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 3: of cocky and blustery and just going in, you know,

466
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 3: kind of smug, Con gets the better of him. And

467
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 3: at the end of the scene he gets a great

468
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 3: moment where he chides himself. He's like, all I did

469
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 3: was get caught with my breeches down, Savac. You go

470
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 3: right on quoting regulations at me. You were right, And

471
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 3: it's a great moment.

472
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, so Yeah. Ultimately, I have nothing but

473
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 2: nice things to say about Shatner's performance here, all right,

474
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 2: Moving on through the crew. Here, the core crew of

475
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: the Enterprise, we have Leonard Nimoy, of course, returning his

476
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 2: spock niem Ooy lived nineteen thirty one through twenty fifteen.

477
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 2: We've also discussed Nimoy before in our recently re aired

478
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,719
Speaker 2: episode on nineteen fifty eight's The Brain Eaters.

479
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 3: One of my favorites and one of my favorite posters.

480
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 2: Though he's barely in it, as I recall, right, I.

481
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 3: Think so, well, now it's been a while since we

482
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 3: did that episode. I think he's the guy who's inside

483
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 3: the Giant Cone once they go in there, so he

484
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 3: doesn't get a lot of screen time.

485
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I'm not going to completely rehash everything I

486
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 2: said in that episode about Leonard Nimoy, but you know,

487
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: we worked quite a bit outside of Trek. Best known

488
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: for his portrayal is Spock, but he did a lot

489
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: of voice acting and narration. His credits go back to

490
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 2: fifty one, and his TV credits include The Twilight Zone,

491
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: The Outer Limits, the original Mission Impossible series Night Gallery,

492
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 2: which he also directed an episode of the nineties Outer Limits,

493
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: among others. He appeared in the nineteen seventy eight Invasion

494
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 2: of the Body Snatcher's remake, and as a director, he

495
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 2: would take the Helm on eighty four as the Search

496
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 2: for Spock and eighty six is The Voyage Home. As

497
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 2: of this recording, he still holds the record, I believe

498
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 2: as the main cast Trek actor to appear in the

499
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 2: most Trek movies, so eight films. That includes the two

500
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 2: thousand and nine Trek Reboot, Reboot Remake, and twenty thirteens

501
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 2: Into Darkness.

502
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 3: Outside of his work on Star Trek, I would single

503
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 3: out his role in the seventy eight Invasion of the

504
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 3: Body Snatchers as especially good. He's really great in that.

505
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 3: I've probably mentioned it on the show before because I

506
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 3: love it so much. But there's a moment when in

507
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 3: the alien replicant form, he is trying to implant some

508
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 3: of the remaining human characters, you know, with pods to

509
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 3: transform them into alien replicants, and Donald Sutherland says to them.

510
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 3: He says to the aliens, He's like, we hate your guts,

511
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 3: and Lendard Nimoy as this alien says to him, we

512
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 3: don't hate you. I always found so chilling. It's wonderful.

513
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 3: It's like they don't We're just doing our thing.

514
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely Nimoy could be chilling, and in general

515
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,959
Speaker 2: he could. He just brought a quiet dignity to anything

516
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: he was in, and even if he wasn't playing Spock,

517
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: and if he was playing Spot, you got bucket loads

518
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 2: of quiet dignity all you can handle. So he's great

519
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: in this. As always, it is like a key supporting role.

520
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: For the most part. Again, Kirk is the protagonist, but

521
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: as viewers of this film well know, it's all leading

522
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 2: up to one of the most dramatic and iconic moments

523
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 2: in the Trek film series.

524
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I guess we should go ahead and say

525
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 3: here that this episode will be full of spoilers if

526
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 3: you've ever seen this movie, So if you want to

527
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 3: see it unspoiled, and you've made it this far already,

528
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 3: stop here and go watch the movie, because we are

529
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 3: going to talk about the ending and all that.

530
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Next, we have Bones. We have doctor

531
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 2: Leonard Bones McCoy, played by DeForest Kelly, who lived nineteen

532
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: twenty through nineteen ninety nine. Atlanta born actor. Of course,

533
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 2: best known for his work as Bones, but he also

534
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: was just a staple on various TV westerns, which makes sense.

535
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 2: You know if, even if you've only seen start his

536
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: work in Star Trek, you know that he brings kind

537
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 2: of a old TV Western energy to the franchise. His

538
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 2: credits go back to the mid forties, and outside of

539
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 2: the track films, his credits also include the giant rampaging

540
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 2: Rabbits movie nineteen seventy two's Night of the Leavius.

541
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 3: Oh boy, you may not have heard the last of

542
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 3: those Rabbits.

543
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: Listen. Yeah, yeah, we may come back. We've been talking

544
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: about doing that one for a while. So Bones is

545
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 2: a lovable grumpus in the original series, and he brings

546
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 2: that energy here as well. Again key supporting character, he's

547
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: Kirk's older friend and longtime crew member who is trying

548
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: to help ease him into his older years, but.

549
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: Also kind of nagging him into like being younger again. Yeah, Like,

550
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 3: why don't you get back into the actions?

551
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's true, all right. Up next, we have

552
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 2: Walter Kanig playing Chekhov born nineteen thirty six, the son

553
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: of Russian Jewish immigrants. Again best known for playing Chekhov here,

554
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: but he did a lot of additional TV work and

555
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: appeared in twelve episodes of Babylon five. His other films

556
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: include nineteen eighty nine's Moontrap and nineteen ninety six is

557
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 2: Sworn to Justice.

558
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 3: I've read about how Star Trek fans, though of course

559
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 3: most loved this movie, have long enjoyed pointing out the

560
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 3: continuity flub here in that the character that Kanig plays Chekhov,

561
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 3: when he first meets Khan again in this movie, Khan

562
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 3: is like, I never forget a face. I know you

563
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 3: from the enterprise, and in fact this is that episode

564
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 3: is from before Walter Kanig joined the show, and so

565
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 3: like Chekhov is not in that episode. Yeah, I think

566
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 3: there's some red conning.

567
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 2: But yeah, I was thinking back on the space Seed episode.

568
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 2: I was like, wait, I don't remember the meeting. But

569
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 2: then I kind of explained it away. I'm like, he

570
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 2: was there on the ship, that we just didn't see him.

571
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 2: That we just can assume they bumped into each other,

572
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 2: like in the cafeteria or something deleted.

573
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 3: Scenes or yeah, yeah, now is it the case when

574
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 3: they first brought Walter Kenney Gone to the show that

575
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 3: I think I'd always heard this that it was because

576
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 3: like he was, he had a beatle haircut. Basically he

577
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 3: was like a mop top and he looks kind of

578
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 3: like Davy Jones.

579
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know I remember hearing this as well,

580
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: and maybe I've seen some pictures to back this up.

581
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 3: Like they basically wanted a beatle looking kid on the show,

582
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 3: and there he is.

583
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 2: He had to bring in the youth, all right. Up next,

584
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: we have George DeKay playing Sulu born nineteen thirty seven,

585
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: beloved Japanese American actor who, outside of Trek, probably best

586
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 2: known for his voice acting. We have another fabulous voice here,

587
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: so You'll hear him in such films as Disney's Mulan

588
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: from nineteen eighty eight, the film Kubo from twenty sixteen,

589
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 2: and so many one offs. You know, he pops up

590
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 2: in things like Adventure Time and and he has that voice,

591
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 2: you know, when a character is suddenly voiced by George DeKay.

592
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 2: There's no mistaking it.

593
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 3: He has one of those voices where you can hear

594
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: him smiling when he talks. Yes, you know what I'm

595
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 3: talking about.

596
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Now, due to the tightness of the script here,

597
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: Sulu Sadley doesn't really have that much to do in

598
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,239
Speaker 2: Wrath of Cohn. Like He's definitely a part of like

599
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: a crack team, there's no taking that away from his character,

600
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 2: but he doesn't play into the events too strongly. I

601
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: believe there was a key deleted scene that would have

602
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 2: given us a little more Kirk Sulu interaction, but it

603
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: was cut for pacing.

604
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's there in the script. I don't know if

605
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 3: it was ever filmed, but it's not in the final cut.

606
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 3: In the script, there's a scene where Kirk is congratulating

607
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 3: Sulu on being given command of his own starship, but

608
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 3: he's sort of doing one more training mission with the Enterprise.

609
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: First, yeah, and then rounding out the original Trek crew.

610
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: We have Michelle Nichols playing Ohura. She lived nineteen thirty

611
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: two through twenty twenty two. American actress and former dancer.

612
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 2: Are best known for Star Trek, as well as her

613
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 2: work with NASA from nineteen seventy seven through twenty fifteen.

614
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: She also appears in the nineteen seventy four action film

615
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: Truck Turner, starring Isaac Hayes and co starring yaffat Coto. Again,

616
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: sadly not a very big role here, but you know,

617
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: as with others, she's part of a crack team, and

618
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 2: she does have like one or two crucial moments where

619
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: if her character had done something differently, the results would

620
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 2: have been more disastrous for the crew.

621
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 3: But as you said, this is a very Kirk and

622
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 3: sort of Kirk and Spock focus story, right.

623
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: And you know, ultimately we know the dynamics of these characters,

624
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: so you have to introduce some other non villain characters

625
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: to round things out and also to add that level

626
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 2: of risk, because they're not going to kill off one

627
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: of the members of the classic Enterprise crew in this movie, right,

628
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 2: So we need to introduce some characters that might conceivably die.

629
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: That's right.

630
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 3: So who do we get here?

631
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: All right? So there's a science project going on. There's

632
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 2: a big the Genesis project, as we'll learn, and the

633
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: lead scientist on this is doctor Carol Marcus, played by

634
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: bb Besch. She lived nineteen forty two through nineteen ninety six.

635
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 2: The character here is Kirk's former romantic partner. The actress

636
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 2: here best known for this film, but also appeared in

637
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 2: eighty two's The Beast Within the Day, after which we

638
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 2: already referenced, eighty seven's Who's That Girl, eighty nine Steel

639
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 2: Magnolia's in nineteen nineties Trimmers, she was a two time

640
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 2: Emmy nominee.

641
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 3: Wait, who is she in Trimors? She's just one of

642
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 3: the I mean, I guess it's got to be one

643
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 3: of the people who lives in that town. There's nobody

644
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 3: else in that movie.

645
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a small town. Let's say she's the doctor's wife.

646
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, I do not.

647
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,280
Speaker 2: Barely remember her. I'm long overdue for a Trimur's rewatch.

648
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 2: They're under the ground, all right. So that's doctor Carrol Marcus,

649
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: and you know, fine performance important role playing her adult son,

650
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: doctor David Marcus is Merritt Buttrick, who lived nineteen fifty

651
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: nine through nineteen eighty nine. This is Kirk and Carroll's son,

652
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 2: as we'll learn. The actor here is best remembered for

653
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 2: his role in this film and the follow up, The

654
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: Search for Spock. He also appeared on the nineteen eighty

655
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 2: two through nineteen eighty three eighteen sitcom Square Pegs alongside

656
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: Sarah Jessica Parker, and he also appeared in an episode

657
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 2: of Star Trek The Next Generation. His other film credits

658
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 2: include eighty eight's Fright Night Part two and nineteen eighty

659
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: nine's Death Spot.

660
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 3: You can see, or at least we can imagine, based

661
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 3: on looking at him in his scenes with Shatner, that

662
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 3: he was chosen at least in part for his resemblance

663
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 3: to Shatner and his ability to plausibly be this guy's son. Ye,

664
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 3: but he brings his own kind of shatneriness to the role,

665
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 3: like a younger Shatnery. Neis that is irksome to the

666
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 3: older Shatner.

667
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's very action oriented, kind of a

668
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 2: hot head. Yeah yeah. And I think it's a solid performance,

669
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 2: you know, sadly. This is another young actor whose life

670
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 2: was cut short, but solid presence here, all right. And

671
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: then we have Captain Terrell, and he is played by

672
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 2: the great Paul Winfield, who lived nineteen thirty nine through

673
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 2: two thousand and four. Nominated for an OSCAR for his

674
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 2: lead role in the nineteen seventy two film Sounder, and

675
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 2: nominated for an Emmy for his role as Martin Luther

676
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 2: King Junior in the nineteen seventy eight mini series King.

677
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: His other credits include eighty Two's White Dog, eighty four

678
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 2: Is the Terminator, nineteen nineties Presumed Innocent, and nineteen ninety

679
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: six is Mars Attacks.

680
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 3: He's good in this as a tragically doomed starfleet officer

681
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 3: who sort of fights against some SETI eel mind control.

682
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah, strong performance, but yeah, definitely

683
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: a tragic trajectory. All right. We mentioned Christy ally Is

684
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 2: in this earlier. She plays Savvoc, the young Vulcan Federation trainee. Here.

685
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 2: Christy Aali lived nineteen fifty one through twenty twenty two.

686
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: Emmy Award winning cheer star, also known for the Look

687
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 2: Who's Talking films. She also appears in John Carpenter's Village

688
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 2: of the Damned the remake from nineteen ninety five, and

689
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 2: she's in nineteen ninety seven's Deconstructing Harry. She did not

690
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 2: return to this role in the subsequent two films because

691
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 2: the two Star Trek films after this also features savoc

692
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: but instead she is played by Robin Curtis.

693
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, the presence of this character is good because you

694
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 3: need somebody who is new, essentially to kind of be

695
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 3: learning about the older, familiar characters in their dynamics and

696
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 3: to play as a foil to them getting set in

697
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 3: their ways.

698
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, she didn't know who all these people

699
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: are and what their deals are, so well, Yeah, she's

700
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 2: a good character.

701
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 3: When did we get to Ricardo Montaban? Now do we

702
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 3: get him?

703
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: It is now time for Ricardo Montalban, the legendary Mexican

704
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 2: and American actor who of nineteen twenty through two thousand

705
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 2: and nine, and again reprising his role from the nineteen

706
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 2: sixty seven episode Spacey. His credits go back to nineteen

707
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: forty one. He first rose to stardom during the Golden

708
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 2: Age of Mexican cinema, the key film being nineteen forty

709
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: three's Santa, directed by that has nothing to do with

710
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 2: Santa Claus, directed by Hollywood expat Norman Foster, and after

711
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 2: a series of Mexican films, he began work with MGM

712
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 2: around the time the film in question here was nineteen

713
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: forty seven's Fiesta, which was an American production, but it

714
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: was being filmed in Mexico and it kind of took

715
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 2: off from there. So decades of continuous work followed. I

716
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 2: saw a piece from an interview where he described himself

717
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: as an actor being like a doctor on call, Like

718
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 2: if you needed him, you just called him and he

719
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 2: would do it. So it sounds like a real workaholic.

720
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the story goes that while some original

721
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 3: cast members were not excited to come back for this film,

722
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 3: I mean I think they would mostly remember it fondly

723
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 3: looking back, but you know, it was hard to get

724
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 3: them on board. Ricardo Montalban was not hard to get

725
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 3: on board. He was excited to play con again and

726
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 3: you can feel it in his scenes. He's like he's

727
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 3: happy to be here, loves doing this absolutely.

728
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, as well discuss he just consumes this role. Yeah,

729
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: So whether that story is true or not, you can

730
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: believe it easily. So during his career, he did pretty

731
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 2: much everything so comedies, westerns, Swashbuckler's, miscellaneous action films, a

732
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,760
Speaker 2: little in the war and there, some of which looks

733
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: pretty interesting, and of course a lot of TV appearances,

734
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 2: which included that key episode of the original Star Trek.

735
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 2: Also well known for his role on the original Fantasy

736
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 2: Island from seventy seven through eighty four. He also appeared

737
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy one's Escape from the Planet of the

738
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 2: Apes and seventy two's Conquest of the Planet of the Apes.

739
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 2: But outside of those two films and Star Trek, and

740
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: if you want to count them, a couple of spy

741
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 2: kids movies, he didn't really do much in the way

742
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 2: of horror or sci fi, which is kind of a

743
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 2: shame when you realize just what a great That'sracula this

744
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 2: guy would have made. Can you imagine Ricardo montalban as Dracula?

745
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 3: Amazing? Yes, I would love to have seen it.

746
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: So, yeah, what can you say here? As con we

747
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 2: have just a highly charismatic villain role that just positively drips.

748
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: Is it too much? Is it over the top? No? No,

749
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 2: I don't know that it could be right? I mean,

750
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 2: because what else do you want from a genetically engineered

751
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 2: super tyrant that's hell bent on revenge. You know, this

752
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 2: is not a subtle character. This is a grandiose character,

753
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: and you got to have a grandiose performance. And that's

754
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 2: what Montalband delivers here in Space, just fills every scene

755
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 2: he's in with this this focused.

756
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 3: Rage, grandiose personality, and grandiose chest. Questions audience members have

757
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 3: looking at this movie is like, is that his real chest?

758
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: Yeah?

759
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,479
Speaker 3: I believe it is. I feel like sixty years old

760
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 3: when this movie was made, and that's his real chest.

761
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: Just body, I Montalbon, Yeah, I mean this. You look

762
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 2: back at older pictures of it, this dude was just

763
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: always ripped. So wow, all right, I'm just gonna mention

764
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 2: that Industrial Line and Magic did the visual effects here.

765
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 2: Again not a not enough super effects movie, but the

766
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 2: effects that we have are solid. We got some some

767
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: computer effects here that you know, not on par with

768
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 2: what we would have today, certainly, but I don't know,

769
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 2: they tend to be limited to you know, like computer

770
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 2: readouts and so forth, and therefore a little more forgiving.

771
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, like a technical demonstration of how the Genesis project

772
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 3: works is some computer effects that don't look amazing. There

773
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 3: are some things and it will look quite nice, Like

774
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 3: there are these painted backgrounds that they use to show

775
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 3: the you know, the cavern inside the planet that's filled

776
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 3: with blossoming life, and that stuff looks beautiful. And then

777
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: there are also some sets that you can tell we're

778
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 3: being made with cost constraints in mind because there's not

779
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 3: a lot for you to see. But what's there is

780
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 3: very very effective at creating the feeling it was supposed to.

781
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 3: Like the set of the surface of SETI Alpha six

782
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 3: or five, whichever it is, you don't see a lot

783
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 3: because it's just this red desert with a windstorm, you know,

784
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 3: dust storm blowing everywhere, so your sightlines are very limited,

785
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 3: so it's just kind of a red haze. But it

786
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 3: works very well. It feels claustrophobic, ominous, dangerous. It gets

787
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 3: you in the right mood, even though they were able

788
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 3: to achieve it without, you know, building out an elaborate

789
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 3: set with a lot of different stuff in it.

790
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll touch on specific examples of this, but

791
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 2: on the whole, I feel like all the sets feel

792
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 2: very lived in, almost like you can really you can

793
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: smell the alien on them to a certain extent, like

794
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 2: they didn't lean Star Wars or Star Wars. Yeah, they

795
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,720
Speaker 2: don't lean too far into it, but everything does feel

796
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: like a sometimes a little grubby for sure, but other

797
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 2: times just comfortably lived in.

798
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 3: I agree. Uh the so if you watch episodes of

799
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 3: the original series Star Trek, the sets are very clean.

800
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 3: It's that old sci fi look where everything's like shining,

801
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 3: you know, unblemished kind of rooms and tubes and hallways

802
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 3: where it looks like nobody actually lives in them. I

803
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 3: don't know exactly when that changed, but people sometimes point

804
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 3: to movies like Star Wars and Alien as films that

805
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 3: made space look kind of grungy and lived in, like

806
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 3: the actual spaces we occupy, and this movie feels more

807
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 3: like that.

808
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Next Generation would kind of return to that

809
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 2: old aesthetic because I remember, you know, people are looking

810
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 2: back on it, you know, watching Next Generation, like Junior High,

811
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 2: there was kind of this idea that's like, oh, I

812
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 2: guess in the future, we just don't have stuff like

813
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: you have a few things you can have, like two

814
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 2: books and maybe a model ship. You get to bring

815
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 2: three or four things with you onto the Enterprise.

816
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, but also like the walls don't get scuffs on them.

817
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 3: You know you don't like wear the floor out in

818
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 3: certain places.

819
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 2: Right, all right? And finally the music here is a

820
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: score by James Horner nineteen fifty three through twenty fifteen. Yeah,

821
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 2: another superb James Horner score. Composed scores for such films

822
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 2: as Battle Beyond the Stars, Aliens, Kroll, Willow Field of Dreams,

823
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 2: Apollo thirteen, Titanic, A Beautiful Mind, and Avatar. His nineteen

824
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 2: eighty six score to the Name of the Rose is

825
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 2: one of my personal favorites. This score really solid, has some,

826
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 2: of course, you know, obligatory nods to the original Star

827
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 2: Trek theme song, but also I don't know if I

828
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: assume you caught this, Joe, there are moments here who

829
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 2: become dangerously close to the iconic Bishop's countdown segment in

830
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 2: his Alien score, which would of course come a few

831
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 2: years later that amped up music that energizes Aliens but

832
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: also ended up energizing film trailers for decades. So yeah,

833
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 2: great score here for sure. And if you're looking closely,

834
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: James Horner also has a cameo. I included a screenshot

835
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 2: here for you, Joe. Yeah, he's just one of the

836
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 2: star young Starfleet guys just walking through a hallway.

837
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 3: It looks really young.

838
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like kid genius James Horner at age thirteen.

839
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 3: All right, you ready to talk about the plot, Let's

840
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 3: do it. Okay, Now, because this is a very well

841
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 3: known Star Trek film, we might not talk with as

842
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 3: much moment to moment scene description as we do in

843
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 3: some full plot breakdown, So maybe we'll start off describing

844
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 3: the intro in some detail and then see where we

845
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 3: go from there. So I love the opening scene here.

846
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 3: It's a classic now in the Star Trek universe. It

847
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 3: is the Kobayashi Maru scenario. So the film begins on

848
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 3: the bridge of what appears to be the starship Enterprise,

849
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 3: with most of the main cast present except Captain Kirk.

850
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 3: You've got Spack, McCoy, Uhura, and Sulu. They're all there,

851
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 3: but in the captain's chair is a young Vulcan named

852
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 3: Commander Savik played by Kercy Ali, and they are all

853
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 3: on uh We are told a training mission to Gamma Hydra,

854
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 3: which will bring them near the edge of the Neutral Zone.

855
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 3: This is a region of space that Starfleet is prohibited

856
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 3: from entering by way of a treaty with the Klingon Empire. Now,

857
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 3: while traveling, the crew receives a distress call from a

858
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 3: nearby ship, identifying itself as the Kobayashi Maru. It has

859
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 3: hit a gravitic mine and lost all power. The hull

860
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 3: is damaged and there are many casualties among the crew,

861
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 3: so they are in need of immediate evacuation and medical assistance. However,

862
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 3: they are immobilized within the neutral zone, so Captain savak

863
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 3: Here weighs her options and then she decides to head

864
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 3: into the zone to initiate a rescue. Sulu tries to

865
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 3: warn her, but she has made up her mind she

866
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,720
Speaker 3: will break treaty and go inside. Now, while on course

867
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 3: to intercept the Kobayashi Maru, communications with the distressed ship

868
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 3: suddenly go offline. Then three Klingon warships appear and they're

869
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 3: bearing down on the Enterprise. Savic orders the broadcast of

870
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 3: an explanation, but Uhura says that the Klingons are jamming

871
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 3: all channels and they will not receive any message sent,

872
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 3: so we have no choice. It's battle stations. But the

873
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 3: Klingons outnumber the Enterprise and they strike first. There is

874
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 3: a barrage of torpedoes that hit the ship one by one,

875
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 3: and each time a torpedo hits, a member of the

876
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 3: Enterprise crew is knocked to the ground and the explosion

877
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 3: apparently dead. We see Sulu, Uhura, Spack and McCoy all

878
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 3: appear to die this way, and then finally Captain Savik

879
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 3: realizes that the fight cannot be one and she orders

880
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 3: all surviving crew to the escape pods. So if you

881
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 3: don't know what's up, they're hitting you with a pretty

882
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 3: harsh beginning here. It's like all the characters you know

883
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 3: and lo, you know and love are dead. Yeah, yeah,

884
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,720
Speaker 3: But just then we hear a voice interrupting the scenario,

885
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 3: and it's Shatner. Captain Kirk comes in and he says,

886
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,720
Speaker 3: all right, let's open her up, and then a false

887
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 3: wall peels away, revealing that this was not the real

888
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 3: bridge of the Enterprise, but a training simulator from the

889
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 3: observation room nearby. Kirk enters the simulator bridge in silhouette,

890
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 3: framed by tremendous backlighting and fog, as if he were

891
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 3: a god floating into their midst on an empire in cloud.

892
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 3: And I adore this movie, so any criticisms I make

893
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 3: should be taken with that in mind, But this part

894
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 3: always struck me as a little over the top and

895
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 3: suggesting Kurt Kirk's mythical status, like he is the sacred

896
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 3: object being held up by the hirafant. But on the

897
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 3: other hand, I understand the temptation. I get why this happens,

898
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 3: because it's like, oh, the character you know in love

899
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 3: for many years, now here he is on the big screen.

900
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 3: It's exciting. You want it to be a big revelation.

901
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 3: But I say this with love. This part is a

902
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 3: little unintentionally funny.

903
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's very vagus. It's like, this is

904
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 2: his Vegas residence, ladies and gentlemen, Admiral James T.

905
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 3: Kirk, Yeah exactly. So he comes in and Savic says

906
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 3: any suggestions, Admiral, and Kirk says, prayer, mister Savic. The

907
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 3: Klingons do not take prisoners. So we're already getting the

908
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 3: little jokes, the kirkisms. So the situation at the beginning

909
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 3: of the movie is this, having come off of active

910
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 3: duty in the field, the senior Enterprise officers are now

911
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 3: back at Starfleet headquarters supervising the training of young new

912
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 3: officers like Savoc. It seems Spock is now going to

913
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 3: be the captain of the Enterprise and has been educating

914
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 3: his crew. I think Savic is going to be his

915
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 3: first officer. Meanwhile, Kirk is an admiral. He is an

916
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 3: admiral working behind a desk, and he's been living in

917
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 3: an apartment where he collects lots of old artifacts and

918
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 3: historical war memorabilia, flintlock pistols and stuff like that. After

919
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 3: the simulation is over, Lieutenant Savac is confused about the

920
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 3: purpose of the Kobayashi Maru scenario. It is a standard

921
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 3: test that all aspiring Starfleet captains have to take, but

922
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 3: it seems like there is no way to win. You

923
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,760
Speaker 3: either ignore the stranded ship and let its crew perish,

924
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 3: or you break treaty, head into the neutral zone and

925
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 3: are immediately overpowered and destroyed. And Kirk reveals to her

926
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 3: that the point of the test is counterintuitive because it

927
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 3: cannot be one. It is not a test of skill,

928
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,240
Speaker 3: but a test of character, because, as Kirk tells Savik,

929
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 3: how we face death is at least as important as

930
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 3: how we face life.

931
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course this will be a recurring theme

932
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 2: throughout the picture.

933
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 3: Right now, I do make a comment on the fact

934
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 3: that this training simulation comes with pyrotechnics, exploding workstations and consoles,

935
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 3: because when the crew members die when the torpedoes hit,

936
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 3: we see them like they're blown out of their shares,

937
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 3: like halfway across the room.

938
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 2: They're all on the floor.

939
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I know they did this in the movie

940
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 3: so that it would work as a fake out for

941
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 3: the audience, where at first we believe it's actually you know,

942
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 3: they're actually out there and this is all happening. But

943
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:15,959
Speaker 3: as a training environment, these actual explosions seem unnecessary and dangerous. Yeah.

944
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we just didn't have Holodex yet. Like this is

945
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 2: like clearly, if this film were made a decade or

946
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,240
Speaker 2: so later, this would be a Holodeck sequence.

947
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 3: We also learned through some dialogue with Spock that when

948
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 3: Kirk himself was a cadet, he took this test three

949
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 3: times and the way he solved it on his third

950
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 3: attempt was something that had never been tried before anyway.

951
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 3: Here we shift to a focus on Kirk and his

952
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 3: old friends Spock and McCoy. It is Admiral Kirk's birthday,

953
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 3: and as a gift, Spock gives him an antique copy

954
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 3: of a Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens. Then

955
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 3: later McCoy comes over to Kirk's apartment in the evening

956
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 3: and brings him a bottle of romulan ale, which is

957
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 3: neon blue. And for some reason we're told illegal illegal.

958
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 2: Well, I guess it's because we're not technically supposed to

959
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 2: trade with the romulans. Oh. I don't think it's, you know,

960
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 2: because it's such like you know, high proof or anything,

961
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 2: or that it's a llucinogenic or anything. I think it's

962
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 2: just like you're not supposed to have it because we're

963
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 2: we're not we're not doing it well with the.

964
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 3: Romulins right now, Cuban cigars or something exactly. Okay, So

965
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 3: so yeah, they get the romulin ale And did you

966
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 3: understand more about romulin ale than I did. They take

967
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 3: a sip of it and Kirk he looks like he

968
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 3: doesn't like it or something, or maybe just like it.

969
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,720
Speaker 3: It immediately hits him really hard or something.

970
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know that romulin ale is something that

971
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 2: pops up in Star Trek from time to time. But

972
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 2: I actually went on line. I was like, what is

973
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 2: this supposed to stuff to supposed to taste like, and

974
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:55,399
Speaker 2: apparently it's inconsistent the way it's described in different Star

975
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 2: Trek media. Looking at it, it makes me expect a

976
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 2: licorice or mouthwaite. But they seem to treat it like

977
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 2: maybe it's a fine, if perhaps challenging spirit. They have

978
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 2: it straight up though, right, there's no ice, no chaser

979
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 2: or anything like that exactly. Yeah, But then of course

980
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 2: we're told it's an ale, which would indicate it some

981
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 2: sort of a beer. I asked my friend Dave, who

982
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: knows beers, like, what sort of beer would this be?

983
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 2: And he was like, maybe a Belgian? And I don't

984
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 2: know enough beers to even know what that means.

985
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 3: That's just a type of beer. I don't know. I

986
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 3: don't want to dispute Dave here, but I don't know.

987
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 3: It seems more like they're treating it like liquor rather

988
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 3: than beer.

989
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 2: But it's an ale, right, so it.

990
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:41,240
Speaker 3: May say ale. It just seems confused anyway. He also

991
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 3: McCoy also brings Kirk a pair of antique reading glasses.

992
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 3: Necessary one because Kirk is getting old and so you

993
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 3: know he needs some help with reading, but also because

994
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 3: Kirk is allergic to the drug that most people take

995
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 3: in the twenty third century to correct their eyesight.

996
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 2: And we had an early scene where Kirk is holding

997
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 2: something he's reading, like super far away from his eyes

998
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 2: the Dickens book. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, but I think

999
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 2: there's even an earlier scene when he first comes into

1000
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 2: the training scenario. I think there's a tablet or something

1001
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 2: he looks at and he's holding it at arm's length.

1002
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, Kirk is definitely that friend that many of

1003
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 2: you have Sometimes maybe you are that friend who is

1004
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,720
Speaker 2: straight up refusing to take the step of getting reading

1005
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 2: glasses and instead you're just holding things farther and farther

1006
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,720
Speaker 2: away from your eyes and continually bumping up the font

1007
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:33,760
Speaker 2: size on your kindle.

1008
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 3: Nice. Well, maybe for related reasons. In the scene, Kirk

1009
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 3: seems to be a little bit depressed. It is clear

1010
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 3: that while serving as an admirable and I keep saying admirable,

1011
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 3: as an admiral at Starfleet headquarters, he has felt old.

1012
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 3: He's feeling his age. He's feeling old, tired, and without purpose.

1013
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 3: He feels like someone whose best years are behind him

1014
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 3: and he's got nothing to look forward to.

1015
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. This reminded me of the lyrics to an old

1016
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,919
Speaker 2: Al Stewart song from nineteen seventy three, Old Admirals. There's

1017
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 2: a line in it that goes, and I sometimes think,

1018
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 2: in all this world, the saddest thing to be old

1019
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 2: admirals who feel the wind and never put to sea.

1020
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:23,720
Speaker 3: That describes exactly the themes being evoked here. So Bones

1021
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 3: tries to give Kirk some advice. He says, I'm your doctor,

1022
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 3: and I'm your friend, Jim, get back your command, Get

1023
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 3: it back before you really do grow old, before you

1024
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 3: turn into part of this collection and emotions at all

1025
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 3: the flint lock pistols and all the old stuff.

1026
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, though in general I love this set here again.

1027
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 2: It feels very lived in. It's got a really cool fireplace,

1028
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 2: you know. It has a very authentic feel to it.

1029
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 2: So nice set. I like it.

1030
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 3: This is Captain Kirk's bachelor pad. This is what it

1031
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 3: would look like, all right. Let's check in with the

1032
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 3: other subplot here with the real Lant and SETI Alpha

1033
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 3: six or SETI Alpha five. So elsewhere in the galaxy,

1034
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 3: we join the starship Reliant, commanded by Captain Terrell and

1035
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 3: First Officer Pavel Chekhov, formerly of the Enterprise. This is

1036
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 3: Walter Kang's character. The Reliant has been tasked with assisting

1037
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:22,879
Speaker 3: a scientific research mission known as the Genesis Project, which

1038
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 3: is led by doctor Carol Marcus, who is Kirk's old flame.

1039
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 3: Working with her on the Genesis Project is her son David,

1040
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 3: who looks a big Kirky and doesn't know that James T.

1041
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 3: Kirk is his father. The purpose of the Genesis Project

1042
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 3: is to turn lifeless planets into habitable garden worlds. It

1043
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 3: is sort of a life nuke. You drop it on

1044
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,919
Speaker 3: a hunk of dead rock, it explodes, It sets out

1045
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 3: this field that reorganizes all of the local matter into

1046
00:56:55,560 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 3: incipient life forms, allowing a newborn biosphere to evolve and

1047
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 3: take over the planet in minutes. And so it can

1048
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 3: transform an uninhabitable moon into a paradise. But if you

1049
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 3: were to drop it somewhere there was already life, it

1050
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 3: would annihilate that life and replace it with its new matrix.

1051
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would seem to be a stunning advancement in

1052
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 2: a starvely technology, Like it's godlike power that they're playing

1053
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 2: with here.

1054
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 3: So while the scientists are busy developing the Genesis Project bomb,

1055
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 3: the Reliant has been given the job to find a

1056
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 3: suitable planet with no indigenous life forms. They come across

1057
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 3: the planet Seti Alpha six, which according to their records,

1058
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 3: is thought to be completely barren. However, when they scan it,

1059
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 3: they detect some faint signs of life and only one

1060
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 3: isolated spot on the surface. So Captain Terrell and First

1061
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 3: Officer Chekhov beamed down to investigate. And this is one

1062
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 3: of the sets I was talking about earlier that was

1063
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,040
Speaker 3: clearly made with cost containment in mind, so it's not

1064
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 3: not elaborate, but very very effective. This craggy red desert,

1065
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 3: sightlines are limited, this dust storm blowing all around. Terrell

1066
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 3: and Chekhov followed the life signal to its source, where

1067
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 3: they find what looks like an abandoned metal shipping container.

1068
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 3: They go inside and it's clear that someone has been

1069
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 3: using this container as a home. There are beds, clothes, books,

1070
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 3: including moby Dick, crude furniture, and also a little tank

1071
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 3: like a little glass terrarium, filled only with red sand.

1072
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 3: Something is stirring under the sand, but we don't see

1073
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 3: what it is at this point. And suddenly, while Chekhov

1074
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 3: is looking around, he comes across a piece of equipment

1075
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 3: labeled with the name of the ship that these people

1076
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 3: came from, the SS Botany Bay, and with horror, Chekhov

1077
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 3: realizes who they are dealing with. I guess this would

1078
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 3: be the point if we're going to talk in any

1079
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 3: detail about the Star Trek episode space maybe we should

1080
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 3: do that here. What is it that Chekhov realizes when

1081
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:05,479
Speaker 3: he sees s S. Botany Bay.

1082
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 2: Well, Chekhov knows and viewers of the original Star Trek

1083
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 2: series know that the Botany Bay was, of course a

1084
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 2: nineteen nineties starship, nineteen ninety spaceship that Khan and his

1085
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 2: fellow genetic augments were cryonically suspended upon. This is daring

1086
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 2: after the eugenics wars on Earth, so like this catastrophic,

1087
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 2: essentially a Third World War, highly destructive, and it's caused

1088
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 2: by these various genetically augmented supermen who were like the

1089
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 2: tyrants of the planet, who ended up warring against each other.

1090
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 2: And Khan was at once kind of like the best

1091
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 2: in the worst of all of them, as explored in

1092
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 2: Space Seed. Like you know, he wasn't he wasn't as

1093
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 2: cruel as some of them. In many ways, he was

1094
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 2: highly effective, but he also is the embodiment of humanity's

1095
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,439
Speaker 2: love hate relationship with hear Any.

1096
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 3: So, after he was finally dethroned as a tyrant on

1097
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 3: Earth and defeated, he and his followers were put on

1098
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 3: this spaceship and sent out into deep space. I guess

1099
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 3: was this there like sentence their punishment or did they

1100
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 3: like escape and get out there. I don't remember exactly

1101
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 3: how that happened, but I don't remember that details. So

1102
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 3: he's a horrible tyrant on Earth, he's removed from power,

1103
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 3: and he's sent out here. And so the crew of

1104
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 3: this isn't in Wrath of Khan, by the way, this

1105
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 3: is just the backstory in space Seed. When the crew

1106
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 3: find out who he was, this guy they've rescued from

1107
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:38,959
Speaker 3: croywsleep on the spaceship, they talk about what they can

1108
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 3: reassemble from the historical record on Earth, and yeah, as

1109
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 3: you mentioned, they describe him essentially as the best of

1110
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 3: the tyrants and eugenics dictators of this era, not the

1111
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 3: worst one. You would think that the script tendency would

1112
01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 3: be to say he was the most cruel and the

1113
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 3: most eightful and the worst of all of them. But no,

1114
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 3: he was actually the best one, the least cruel and

1115
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 3: the least ruthless, and he's still awful. He's terrible, and

1116
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 3: so I think the episode is trying to comment about how,

1117
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 3: you know, tyrants don't only rule by force. They rule

1118
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 3: by appeal. Sometimes they rule by seduction. Many people find

1119
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 3: them appealing and want to be ruled by them, or

1120
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 3: think that maybe being ruled by them won't be quite

1121
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 3: so bad until they've already been given the power and

1122
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 3: it's too late. Another one of the ideas pursued in

1123
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 3: Space Seed is about the you know, the artificially created

1124
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 3: exceptionalness of con that they say he was created by

1125
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 3: scientists from this product of selective breeding. So he's like

1126
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 3: super intelligent, super strong, you know, his body is incredibly resilient,

1127
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 3: he's never been sick, all that kind of stuff, which

1128
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 3: the members of the Enterprise find abhorrent. You know that

1129
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 3: they are very opposed to the idea of these augments

1130
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. But the episode pursues the idea that, like,

1131
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 3: if one finds oneself so exceptional in this way, does

1132
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 3: that naturally lead to a desire to dominate and rule

1133
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 3: over others around you. I feel like the episode is

1134
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 3: proposing maybe that could be true. I don't know if

1135
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 3: in reality that is born out, if that exceptionalness actually

1136
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 3: correlates with a desire to dominate and rule others.

1137
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would agree.

1138
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 3: Seem kind of like independent variables to me.

1139
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 2: So anyway, Spacey though, what you expect to happen happens.

1140
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 2: While Con is recovering in the medical bay, He's like, oh,

1141
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 2: I would love to read the various technical manuals for

1142
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 2: the starship path I do so, and they're like, of course,

1143
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 2: and so he does. He soon, you know, gets this

1144
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:07,440
Speaker 2: his defrosted followers to help him stage a coup on

1145
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 2: the ship. They take over the Enterprise. But eventually this

1146
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 2: leads to a standoff between himself and Kirk. There's fisticuffs,

1147
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 2: there's a little there's a nice lutador head scissors by

1148
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 2: Kirk on Cohn and order is restored. But then what

1149
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 2: are they going to do with Con? Right, this is

1150
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 2: where Kirk displays a little of that trademark, you know,

1151
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 2: rogue decision making. He decides to dispense a little extra

1152
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 2: judicial judgment here.

1153
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 3: That's right, So Con and his main collaborator on the Enterprise.

1154
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 3: Because there's another character in this episode who's interesting. The

1155
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 3: character of the historian Lieutenant mcguvers, who is presented as

1156
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 3: somebody who's an expert on the past and maybe finds

1157
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 3: the past a little bit too romantic and too exciting.

1158
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 3: So she is seduced by the charismatic barbarity of this

1159
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 3: twentieth century superman, and she initially tries to help him

1160
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 3: seize power on the Enterprise, but then later she has

1161
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 3: a turn, you know, a change of heart, and she

1162
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 3: turns against him. And so Con and her are given

1163
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:19,919
Speaker 3: the choice of accepting court martial or being set free

1164
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 3: on this uninhabited planet and to sort of live in

1165
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 3: exile basically so they won't be able to escape the

1166
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 3: planet and harm anyone else. But also they're not going

1167
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 3: to just like send him to space jail. So it's

1168
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 3: a very merciful reaction.

1169
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as the episode ends, the Enterprise crew ruminates on, hey,

1170
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:40,920
Speaker 2: maybe someone will check out this colony one hundred years

1171
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 2: from now and we'll see how this experiment worked out.

1172
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 2: You know, what will the future of this colony be?

1173
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 2: What sort of society or civilization will they build? Will

1174
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 2: they build out? But of course, as we'll see here

1175
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:57,320
Speaker 2: in this movie, no one actually checked in on them. Afterwards.

1176
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 3: That's right. So back in the the present timeline in

1177
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 3: Wrath of Khan, before Captain Tarrell and First Officer Chekhov

1178
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 3: can escape, they are captured by the inhabitants of this

1179
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 3: desert dressed like something out of Doune. The desert costumes

1180
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 3: are creepy and very good. They're wearing these like metal

1181
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 3: shields on their faces. They just have like a slit

1182
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 3: for vision, and you know, full body robes and everything

1183
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 3: covering everything up from the dust. So they're taken inside

1184
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 3: the habitat and the leader reveals himself to be Khan,

1185
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 3: the villain from Space Seed.

1186
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 2: Oh and does he ever reveal himself such a great scene.

1187
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 2: He milks it, you know, taking off some of the

1188
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 2: wrappings around his head, taking off the goggles or the

1189
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 2: face mask, you know, and he's decked out and kind

1190
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 2: of they're all decked out in these kind of like

1191
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 2: post apocalyptic garbs. They've got little like almost cyberpunk little

1192
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 2: gadgets on their bodies, cons wearing amulets or jewelry. And

1193
01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:59,959
Speaker 2: then he has these two gloves on, these like black

1194
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 2: gloves with silver mash or sequence on them, and he

1195
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 2: very stylishly takes off one of those gloves, but then

1196
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 2: keeps the other glove on for the remainder of the picture.

1197
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 2: I guess to just just as a charismatic flourish.

1198
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 3: It's a good look.

1199
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 2: It is. It's a great look. This man knows what

1200
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 2: he's doing.

1201
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 3: So one thing that happens at the end of Space

1202
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 3: Seed is that when they're in the sort of court

1203
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 3: martial scene or the justice scene, Kahn asks Kirk if

1204
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 3: he knows Milton referencing Paradise Lost, and the implication there

1205
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 3: is he's drawing attention to the quote from Satan in

1206
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 3: Paradise Lost, where Satan says it's better to rule in

1207
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 3: hell than serve in heaven. And so that showed in

1208
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 3: the original episode, con sort of accepting that he had

1209
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 3: been defeated and accepting his fate to say, yes, I

1210
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 3: would rather have exile, sort of showing him being at

1211
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 3: peace there. Exile me on this planet, and I'll see

1212
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 3: what I can do with the situation. Unfortunately, SETI Alpha

1213
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 3: five turned out to be more of a hell than

1214
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 3: they bargained for. They say, about six months after they

1215
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:12,360
Speaker 3: were left there, SETI Alpha six exploded, throwing SETI Alpha

1216
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 3: five out of orbit. And reducing its surface from a

1217
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 3: garden world into this barren desert. So the planet that

1218
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 3: they're on, which was which the Reliant thought was Seti

1219
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 3: Alpha six, is actually Seti Alpha five. Beyond that, the

1220
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 3: only indigenous alien life form left alive from Seti Alfha

1221
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 3: five is this thing they call the Seti eels. There

1222
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 3: are these weird little caterpillar like creatures, and they killed

1223
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 3: many of Khan's crew, including his wife. We don't ever

1224
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 3: meet his wife. I was wondering, is his wife supposed

1225
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 3: to be the historian from That's what I Okay, I

1226
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 3: don't think they make that clear, so I'm not sure,

1227
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 3: but that's kind of what I was wondering. But anyway,

1228
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 3: these parasitic life forms they enter through the ear and

1229
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 3: wrap themselves around the victim's cerebral cortex, causing extreme suggestibility, madness, paralysis,

1230
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:19,640
Speaker 3: and eventually death. So these things are bad, and they

1231
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 3: killed many of his crew, but some of his crew

1232
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 3: are still here hanging on. And now that he has

1233
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 3: these two starfleet officers captive, he will be able to

1234
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 3: escape this cursed planet. So some of his followers are

1235
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:34,320
Speaker 3: eager to take this blessing and run. They can now

1236
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:37,599
Speaker 3: live free again. They can get off this rock. But

1237
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 3: Con is not content just to escape his exile and

1238
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 3: live in peace. He's got a mission. His mission is

1239
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 3: one of revenge against now Admiral James T.

1240
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 4: Kirk.

1241
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 3: It is very full of Moby Dick analogies. I think

1242
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,759
Speaker 3: he starts quoting Moby Dick in this scene maybe or certainly,

1243
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 3: If not in this scene, he will some more throughout

1244
01:08:59,000 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 3: the film.

1245
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's going to have a fair amount of

1246
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 2: back and forth with his like right hand man, played

1247
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 2: by the actor Judson Scott born nineteen fifty two. He's

1248
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 2: done a lot of work as well and TV and film,

1249
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 2: but this character keeps telling him. It's like, hey, we've

1250
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:16,360
Speaker 2: done it, we've escaped, we've got the starship. Let's let's

1251
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 2: give up on this mad vengeance quest. And Cohn you know,

1252
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 2: rejects him. And then later on, you know, he's going

1253
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:23,920
Speaker 2: to be like, we will, we have the super weapon,

1254
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:27,720
Speaker 2: we have everything we need. Let let Captain Kirk go,

1255
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:31,400
Speaker 2: and he's like, no, it's revenge front and center.

1256
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 3: That's right. So the next thing is the eel implantation scene.

1257
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:38,240
Speaker 3: And this is a great horror scene that I think

1258
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 3: I said this earlier, but I think I saw this

1259
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 3: when I was younger. Somehow they put these little the

1260
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 3: SETI eels inside the helmets of our starfleet officers. They

1261
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 3: put the helmets back on their suits, and then we

1262
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,759
Speaker 3: see the eels crawling into their ears, and it's gross

1263
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 3: so good.

1264
01:09:56,520 --> 01:10:00,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, because you have Montlbond's Cohn narrating the

1265
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 2: whole thing, telling them that the creepy story of the eels,

1266
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 2: and then yeah, dump them in the helmets and then

1267
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 2: put the helmets on them, turn their own helmets into

1268
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 2: a torture device essentially.

1269
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:13,800
Speaker 3: So the next thing is Con and his people. Now

1270
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 3: that they've got these officers, they take control of the

1271
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 3: starship Reliant itself. So now they've got a starship, and

1272
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:22,920
Speaker 3: they learn of the Genesis projects that they seek to

1273
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 3: take control of the Life Nuke as well. Now, meanwhile,

1274
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 3: the main cast, they're all going out on board the

1275
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:33,800
Speaker 3: Enterprise for real this time, not a simulation, and we

1276
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:37,840
Speaker 3: meet the young new crew you know we're meeting. We

1277
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 3: meet one young character who's an engineer who I think

1278
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 3: in another draft of the script or in unfilmed scenes,

1279
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 3: is revealed to be Scotty's nephew he's but I don't

1280
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,920
Speaker 3: recall if anything about that is actually said in the movie.

1281
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 3: By the way, when they're coming onto the ship, there's

1282
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 3: a moment where Scotty reveals he has just recovered from

1283
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 3: a wee bout of something, and they're like, wait, a

1284
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:05,240
Speaker 3: wee bout of what? And McCoy's like, shore leave. They

1285
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:09,639
Speaker 3: get these little inappropriate jokes in there. So they're taking

1286
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 3: the ship out for training maneuvers. But while they're on

1287
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:16,120
Speaker 3: course for training, they receive a distress call from Regula one,

1288
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:19,840
Speaker 3: the space station where the Genesis Project is based, and

1289
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:23,400
Speaker 3: it's Carol Marcus asking why her old boyfriend James T.

1290
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 3: Kirk has given the order for the scientists to relinquish

1291
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,560
Speaker 3: control of the Genesis Project and hand it over to Starfleet.

1292
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 3: Of course, no such order was actually given. Kahan used

1293
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 3: his mind control eels to get Chekhov to feed this

1294
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 3: lie to Marcus and the other scientists so that they

1295
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 3: would lure the Enterprise into this trap. So here we

1296
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:47,879
Speaker 3: come up to the first big scene, the first encounter

1297
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 3: between Kirk and Kahn, between the Enterprise and the Reliant.

1298
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 3: There are a lot of things I love about this scene.

1299
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 3: I like the way it mirrors some aspects of the

1300
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 3: opening simulation. I love the way that the Enterprise goes

1301
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 3: in unsuspecting, and we get to see Kirk and the

1302
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:06,559
Speaker 3: rest of the Enterprise crew just kind of relaxed and

1303
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:10,719
Speaker 3: cocky and not really suspecting anything's wrong. And then even

1304
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 3: when things start getting kind of weird, they don't seem

1305
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 3: too concerned about it. And then on the other side,

1306
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 3: we get to see Cohn and his crew plotting in

1307
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:20,920
Speaker 3: there at the bridge of their ship and Montleblanc just

1308
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 3: gobbling this scene up. His right hand man says they're

1309
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:29,480
Speaker 3: requesting visual communication, sir, and Con says, let them eat static.

1310
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 3: And the guy says they're still running with shields down,

1311
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:39,719
Speaker 3: and Con says, of course, we're one big happy fleet. Ah, Kirk,

1312
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:42,519
Speaker 3: my old friend, do you know the Klingon proverb that

1313
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:46,160
Speaker 3: tells us revenge is a is a dish best served cold?

1314
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 3: In this dramatic pause, it is very cold in space.

1315
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:56,560
Speaker 2: I'm not sure anyone else could have delivered that line. Yeah,

1316
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:58,680
Speaker 2: but yeah, this scene is great because, of course, the

1317
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 2: rest of the film is going to be one big

1318
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 2: cat and mouse game, but at this point, from kirk standpoint,

1319
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 2: it's just all mice. Only Con knows that there is

1320
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:11,760
Speaker 2: a cat in play, and of course he is the cat. Right.

1321
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 3: So Con ambushes the Enterprise with a surprise attack, blasts

1322
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 3: it with phasers, and disables most of the ship's capabilities.

1323
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 3: The Enterprise cannot warp away, it can't really fight back

1324
01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 3: very well, so they're they're sitting ducks now. Then Con

1325
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 3: appears on the on the view screen to let Kirk

1326
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:34,200
Speaker 3: know that it was him and Kirk and Spock. They

1327
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 3: only managed to get out of this situation by leveraging

1328
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:41,680
Speaker 3: their superior knowledge of how Starfleet Bridge controls work. I

1329
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:45,559
Speaker 3: like how their solution. So Con gives them a moment

1330
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:48,800
Speaker 3: to beam over all of the data they have on

1331
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 3: Project Genesis. He's like, if you send me all that data,

1332
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 3: then I'll just take my revenge on you personally, and

1333
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,439
Speaker 3: I'll let the rest of the ship go. And so

1334
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:00,559
Speaker 3: they buy some time by saying, oh, yeah, we've got

1335
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:03,280
Speaker 3: to call up the data files. Hold on, we're looking

1336
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:05,639
Speaker 3: for them. Okay, we're about to send them to you now.

1337
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:09,120
Speaker 3: But meanwhile, what they're actually doing is they come up

1338
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 3: with a plan to hack the mainframe. They're going to

1339
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:15,519
Speaker 3: use the Reliance code key to remotely control the other

1340
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 3: ship and lower its shields, rendering it vulnerable to a

1341
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:22,719
Speaker 3: counter attack. So they do that, and now both ships

1342
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 3: are damaged and they kind of retreat to their corners

1343
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:28,400
Speaker 3: to see what happens next. Another thing I love about

1344
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:31,240
Speaker 3: the scene is what I mentioned earlier, is that is

1345
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 3: the way that it leans into some of the more

1346
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 3: buffoonish aspects of Shatner's portrayal of Kirk and makes them

1347
01:14:40,760 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 3: a good part of the character. The way Kirk acknowledges

1348
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 3: that he was cocky and smug and careless at the beginning,

1349
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 3: and he gives the credit to Savik. He's like, that's right,

1350
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 3: I should have listened to her.

1351
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:54,640
Speaker 2: That's right. I mean, con is a mastermind here, and

1352
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 2: he has set a trap exclusively for Captain James T. Kirk.

1353
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 2: He knows this, He knows exactly how to draw him

1354
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 2: in and take advantage of his weaknesses.

1355
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 3: Right. So now both ships are kind of separated and

1356
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 3: working on repairs, and they're both and like a mystery

1357
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 3: re emerges. Both are like what is the other one

1358
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 3: going to do next? So the Enterprise tries to go

1359
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 3: to Regula one, the space station where the Genesis project

1360
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 3: is hosted. They go there and they find that Khan

1361
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 3: has been there already and has tortured all of the

1362
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 3: scientists there, trying to get information out of them about,

1363
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:32,519
Speaker 3: you know, where to where the main part of the

1364
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:37,400
Speaker 3: project is being held. Also there they meet Chekhov and Tarrell,

1365
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 3: who are still alive, and they're you know, they tell

1366
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:42,680
Speaker 3: the whole horrible story, and so you think that they

1367
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:43,440
Speaker 3: are better.

1368
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, because they even say they put some organisms

1369
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 2: inside us and made us two things we didn't want

1370
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 2: to do. But they're like, but now we're better and

1371
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:50,599
Speaker 2: we're here to help.

1372
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:55,880
Speaker 3: From the space station, Kirk McCoy, Savig and Tarrell and

1373
01:15:56,520 --> 01:16:01,640
Speaker 3: and Chekhov all beamed down to the underground cavern that

1374
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 3: was the place where the Genesis Project was first tried,

1375
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 3: and so there was like a phase that was going

1376
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:10,760
Speaker 3: to be underground in a cave, and then there was

1377
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:12,519
Speaker 3: going to be a bigger phase that was going to

1378
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 3: be planet wide. So they beamed down and they find, ah,

1379
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 3: here is the life nuke, here is the Genesis project bomb.

1380
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 3: They've found it there. But it turns out that Captain

1381
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 3: Terrell and Chekhov were not done being eel pawns yet.

1382
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 3: They were like double agents here. They were saying like, oh, yeah,

1383
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 3: we're done with the eel. We've kicked our eel problem now,

1384
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:36,240
Speaker 3: But they were not. In fact, they were still working

1385
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 3: for Con, and so they like draw phasers on the

1386
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 3: Enterprise crew. They beam up the coordinates to Con so

1387
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:46,599
Speaker 3: that Con can beam up the Genesis bomb. He takes

1388
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:50,400
Speaker 3: that and then Con orders them to finish off his enemy,

1389
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 3: but they don't quite do it yet. It's like something

1390
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:57,320
Speaker 3: is resisting. It's almost I mean, you could look at

1391
01:16:57,320 --> 01:17:00,679
Speaker 3: this as another like the mythic James T. Kirk thing

1392
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 3: where it's like, I just can't do it. He's too awesome.

1393
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:11,120
Speaker 2: Right at Terryll even he played again by Paul Winsfield. Winfield,

1394
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 2: he like resists the eel enough to turn his phaser

1395
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:20,080
Speaker 2: on himself, yes, and you know, completely vaporizes his self

1396
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:22,320
Speaker 2: rather than turn against Kirk.

1397
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 3: And then Checkov I think he just like screams and

1398
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 3: collapses and the thing comes out of his ear. Right,

1399
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:29,080
Speaker 3: So Chekhov ends up okay.

1400
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:32,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and he's gonna have to recoup a little bit,

1401
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:34,800
Speaker 2: but he'll be back in action before the pictures in

1402
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 2: and his ear ends up looking fine. I was thinking

1403
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:38,920
Speaker 2: to myself, it would have been a nice comedic touch

1404
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:40,920
Speaker 2: of his ear just looks super gross, and every time

1405
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:42,400
Speaker 2: he turned his head people were just like.

1406
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

1407
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:47,840
Speaker 2: But but then also importantly here we get con gets

1408
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 2: to zoom in once more, and we get a little

1409
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:54,600
Speaker 2: more gloating. Well, on one hand, he's disappointed that that

1410
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 2: his minions did not just murder James t Kirk, but

1411
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 2: then he kind of had I'm not gonna see a

1412
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:04,200
Speaker 2: change of heart, but a change of revenge plans, and

1413
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:06,719
Speaker 2: he says, well, this is this is for the best,

1414
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:09,280
Speaker 2: because I'm gonna leave you like you left me. I'm

1415
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:12,880
Speaker 2: gonna leave you buried in this lifeless cave, and you're

1416
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:15,679
Speaker 2: gonna just think about my victory the rest of your life.

1417
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:16,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1418
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:21,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, he whispers buried alive into the communicator and buried alive. Yeah.

1419
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 3: And that's when we get Shatner screaming God yeah.

1420
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:30,800
Speaker 2: Which again, you know, take it out of context and

1421
01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:33,840
Speaker 2: it's me more in funny, but within the context of

1422
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:36,160
Speaker 2: the film it's I think it's well earned. And then

1423
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:38,880
Speaker 2: also we're gonna learn a few things about what's happening

1424
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:39,439
Speaker 2: here as well.

1425
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:42,320
Speaker 3: Now there's another thing in this part of the movie

1426
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 3: where the Enterprise officers manage even though CON's really got

1427
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:50,479
Speaker 3: the upper hand on them. Uh, they managed to trick

1428
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 3: him with a this is a plot convention I like too.

1429
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:56,720
Speaker 3: So the trick is they're talking on the communicators and

1430
01:18:57,080 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 3: there Spock is still up on the ship and he's

1431
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 3: says something like, if we go by the book, as

1432
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 3: Commander Savic does, hours could seem like days, and thus

1433
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:11,360
Speaker 3: it will take us two days to complete repairs on

1434
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:15,519
Speaker 3: the ship to have it operable again. And then Chattner's like, oh, yeah, okay,

1435
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:20,360
Speaker 3: so Beam, I'll check in again in one day, and like,

1436
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:22,600
Speaker 3: if you don't know, actually, this does kind of go

1437
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:24,640
Speaker 3: over your head, or at least it did for me

1438
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:27,760
Speaker 3: until they reveal the code later. They are speaking in

1439
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:32,720
Speaker 3: code where they're transposing the time measurements they're giving each

1440
01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:35,840
Speaker 3: other for days and hours, but Con doesn't realize this.

1441
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 3: The key is that he's saying, if you go by

1442
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 3: the book, meaning that there is a regulation in the

1443
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:44,600
Speaker 3: Starfleet Manual that says, when you expect communications to be

1444
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 3: monitored by the enemy, you should only send ENCRYPTID messages.

1445
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:51,360
Speaker 3: And so they are sending messages in code, right, right,

1446
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 3: So this gives con the wrong idea about how soon

1447
01:19:55,160 --> 01:20:08,599
Speaker 3: their ship will be operable, and thus he plans incorrectly. Meanwhile, Kirk,

1448
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:14,840
Speaker 3: Savic Bones, and Chekhov now are trapped in this underground

1449
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:19,679
Speaker 3: cavern with the scientists from the Genesis team, including Kirk's

1450
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:22,800
Speaker 3: old flame Carol Marcus and her son David, who is

1451
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:26,519
Speaker 3: very handsome and strong and he almost reminds me a

1452
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 3: bit of myself.

1453
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:30,160
Speaker 2: Now, this is the scene where we really get what

1454
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:32,720
Speaker 2: seems to be rock bottom Kirk there for a little bit.

1455
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:34,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dark Knight of the Solia.

1456
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's really good. This is again, this is

1457
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 2: Shatner at his finest, where he's like, I'm beat, you know,

1458
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:42,720
Speaker 2: I've been defeated, essentially, like the I mean, I think

1459
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:45,519
Speaker 2: the really clever thing about this is, like, in this

1460
01:20:45,560 --> 01:20:52,120
Speaker 2: one scene, two things from his past, errors from his past,

1461
01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:54,800
Speaker 2: you know, things that he's neglected, have come back to

1462
01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 2: haunt him. On one hand, here is his old enemy Kahn,

1463
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 2: who he like literally just you know, didn't check on,

1464
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:05,320
Speaker 2: just assume, just completely left him to his own and

1465
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:08,040
Speaker 2: now he's come back to seek his revenge. And then

1466
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 2: here is his son, who has not been a part

1467
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:15,000
Speaker 2: of his life I guess he doesn't even didn't even

1468
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:16,880
Speaker 2: really know about him. But on the other hand, it's like,

1469
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:20,080
Speaker 2: clearly Kirk was not present there to be a part

1470
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:22,839
Speaker 2: of this individual's life, right, I think.

1471
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:25,880
Speaker 3: He did know about him, but Carol asked him to

1472
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:26,679
Speaker 3: stay away.

1473
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:29,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, we don't get the impression that

1474
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:31,760
Speaker 2: there was a lot of pushback on that. Like this

1475
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:35,800
Speaker 2: it feels like a shortcoming of his character and he's

1476
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,680
Speaker 2: confronted with it, like violently confronted with this when he

1477
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:40,280
Speaker 2: has fisticuffs with his own son.

1478
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:42,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. But at the same time that we get this

1479
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:46,240
Speaker 3: dark knight of the soul deep underground where they're buried alive,

1480
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:50,880
Speaker 3: there is also a kind of beautiful moment where they're

1481
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:53,919
Speaker 3: brought out into a cavern to see what the Genesis

1482
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 3: Project is capable of, and we get this vast cave

1483
01:21:58,439 --> 01:22:01,400
Speaker 3: that somehow almost seems to have a unshining within it,

1484
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:02,920
Speaker 3: and it's just filled.

1485
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, to make a miniature star in there.

1486
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:10,880
Speaker 3: It's a cavern that's like an enormous cavern that's just

1487
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 3: filled with life, blossoming with trees and fruits and all

1488
01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:18,280
Speaker 3: different kinds of life, and a beautiful little ocean flowing

1489
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 3: through the bottom of it, and it's gorgeous. It looks

1490
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:23,160
Speaker 3: like the cover of one of these old fantasy novels.

1491
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they eat some walk of fruit down there,

1492
01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:31,000
Speaker 2: they do. They recharge themselves, and now it's time to

1493
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:31,880
Speaker 2: get back to the Enterprise.

1494
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:34,439
Speaker 3: That's right, So they get beamed back up to the Enterprise.

1495
01:22:34,479 --> 01:22:39,599
Speaker 3: According to Spock's coded timeline, that again was a trick

1496
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:42,280
Speaker 3: that worked against Con. Con was fooled, and now the

1497
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:45,559
Speaker 3: starship Enterprise is able to function again, much sooner than

1498
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 3: Con expected. And from here they move on to the

1499
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:52,559
Speaker 3: final conflict. They still don't have all of their capabilities back.

1500
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 3: They can't put up a full fight. CON's ship is

1501
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 3: in better shape than the Enterprise is, but they figure

1502
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:00,679
Speaker 3: out a way to even the odds. They look nearby

1503
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:04,759
Speaker 3: and there is a nebula system, the Mutara Nebula, and

1504
01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 3: they say, you know what, let's go in there. And

1505
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 3: initially I think it's Savic is confused to be like,

1506
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:11,640
Speaker 3: if we go in there, won't a lot of our

1507
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:15,680
Speaker 3: systems become non functional? And I think Spock says, you know,

1508
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:19,519
Speaker 3: sauce for the Gander Lieutenant Savic. So the idea is

1509
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 3: if we can go into this place where it disables

1510
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:25,879
Speaker 3: most of your ship's capabilities, it will even the odds

1511
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:28,280
Speaker 3: because their ship is working a lot better than ours

1512
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:31,120
Speaker 3: right now, and so it'll make just both ships not

1513
01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:31,960
Speaker 3: work very well.

1514
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:35,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, so enter the Battle of the Mutara

1515
01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:39,120
Speaker 2: Nebula and it's fabulous. Like we were saying, it's this

1516
01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 2: tense cat and mouse game between two starships that can't

1517
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:45,880
Speaker 2: really see each other or detect each other all that well,

1518
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:48,799
Speaker 2: they're kind of poking around in the dark, very heavy

1519
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 2: shades of like submarine warfare, just seeking for any indication

1520
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 2: about the look, about the of the position, the coordinates

1521
01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:58,840
Speaker 2: of the enemy vessel so that they can fire. Neither

1522
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:01,760
Speaker 2: ship has shields up, so you know, a direct hit.

1523
01:24:02,880 --> 01:24:06,040
Speaker 2: The first, really, the first combatant to score a direct

1524
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:07,559
Speaker 2: hit is going to be the victor here.

1525
01:24:07,800 --> 01:24:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. And they're like looking for ways that

1526
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:14,080
Speaker 3: they can get advantage, right, And I think it is

1527
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 3: Spock that comments that, you know, con is super intelligent.

1528
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:21,679
Speaker 3: He's highly intelligent. He's a brilliant tactician, but he lacks

1529
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:25,000
Speaker 3: experience in space combat. And the fact that he lacks

1530
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:29,960
Speaker 3: experience means that he's thinking two dimensionally about the combat.

1531
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 3: So they reorient the z axis basically of how they're

1532
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:37,439
Speaker 3: planning their approach, and they're you know, it's like rotate

1533
01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:42,439
Speaker 3: battlefield by ninety degrees and that allows them to approach

1534
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 3: from behind and get the better of CON's ship, and

1535
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:49,120
Speaker 3: then they land a torpedo hit and they really finally

1536
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:53,439
Speaker 3: get the advantage. But then Con tries to get he's

1537
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 3: like wounded Captain Ahab now and he tries to get

1538
01:24:56,479 --> 01:24:59,920
Speaker 3: the last barb in on his white whale. He's quoting

1539
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:02,840
Speaker 3: Dick as he's like on the bridge of his ship dying.

1540
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:06,240
Speaker 3: He's saying, you know, from hell's heart, I stab at

1541
01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:08,720
Speaker 3: the for hate's sake. I spit my last breath at

1542
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:11,439
Speaker 3: the And what is that? It is activation of the

1543
01:25:11,479 --> 01:25:15,479
Speaker 3: Genesis project bomb, because he knows that the Enterprise's warp

1544
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:19,280
Speaker 3: system is still disabled, so it can't get away fast

1545
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 3: enough and so they will be destroyed right along with him.

1546
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:26,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, of course Montalband does a fabulous

1547
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:31,280
Speaker 2: job just really eating the scenery in this moment. You know,

1548
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:33,519
Speaker 2: he's wounded at this point, the rest of his crew

1549
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:37,479
Speaker 2: is wounded or dead, everything's in ruin. But yeah, he

1550
01:25:37,640 --> 01:25:40,879
Speaker 2: is spitting venom until the end here.

1551
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 3: And this leads up to the very famous self sacrifice

1552
01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:47,160
Speaker 3: scene at the end of the movie, where in order

1553
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:50,320
Speaker 3: to get warp power back online, Spock realizes that someone

1554
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:53,320
Speaker 3: has to go into the radiation room, the reactor room,

1555
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:57,439
Speaker 3: which is bathed in radiation to I don't know, fiddle

1556
01:25:57,479 --> 01:25:58,440
Speaker 3: with something.

1557
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:01,479
Speaker 2: To get a lot of tech. Yeah, it's just somebody

1558
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:03,599
Speaker 2: needs to go in there and do something, and that

1559
01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:07,760
Speaker 2: person better have higher radiation tolerance than a normal human being.

1560
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:10,960
Speaker 3: But we were told that it will still kill Spock. Like,

1561
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:12,840
Speaker 3: Spock is going in and they try to stop him.

1562
01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:15,040
Speaker 3: They say no, no, no, you go in there, you'll die,

1563
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:17,680
Speaker 3: and he just goes anyway. I think he does the

1564
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:20,439
Speaker 3: Vulcan neck nerve pinch on McCoy to get him to

1565
01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:23,120
Speaker 3: go to sleep while he goes into the radiation room,

1566
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:26,360
Speaker 3: and he saves the ship by reactivating the warp drive

1567
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:28,559
Speaker 3: and the ship is able to get out of range

1568
01:26:28,680 --> 01:26:31,479
Speaker 3: of the Genesis bomb, and so the ship is saved,

1569
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:35,200
Speaker 3: but Spock has had to sacrifice himself in order to

1570
01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:38,519
Speaker 3: do it, and we get a final emotional meeting through

1571
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:41,280
Speaker 3: this sort of radiation shield and glass where Kirk comes

1572
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:45,360
Speaker 3: down to see his friend there, and Spock gets to

1573
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:48,680
Speaker 3: remind him of what they talked about earlier. Actually, I

1574
01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 3: forget the original context in which this came up, but

1575
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:53,920
Speaker 3: where the line is the needs of the few outweigh

1576
01:26:54,120 --> 01:26:56,080
Speaker 3: or the needs of the mini outweigh the needs of

1577
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 3: the few, or the one that's right, and it is

1578
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:03,200
Speaker 3: only logical. And so Spock dies and then is given

1579
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:05,960
Speaker 3: a beautiful funeral where they put him in a little

1580
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:09,880
Speaker 3: in a little kind of capsule shaped case and they

1581
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:12,559
Speaker 3: launch him out of the Enterprise like a torpedo, onto

1582
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:15,840
Speaker 3: the surface of the planet that has now been given

1583
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:18,800
Speaker 3: life through the Genesis Project. So it's like this dead

1584
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:22,520
Speaker 3: rock is now blooming with all of this this new biosphere,

1585
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:26,240
Speaker 3: and Spock's coffin lands on the planet there among all

1586
01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:26,519
Speaker 3: of it.

1587
01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:31,240
Speaker 2: I legitimately do not remember how they bring Spock back

1588
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:32,720
Speaker 2: in the next film, but.

1589
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:34,839
Speaker 3: I remember it's weird. It's been a long.

1590
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:38,080
Speaker 2: Time, Yeah, And that is one of the films that

1591
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:40,960
Speaker 2: I think is not considered one of the better ones

1592
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:42,799
Speaker 2: people generally.

1593
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:46,439
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously opinions can differ, but very common opinion

1594
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:48,800
Speaker 3: is that the even numbered movies are good.

1595
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:52,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't know how far that actually holds out.

1596
01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:54,799
Speaker 2: But yeah, at this point, that's kind of the logic.

1597
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 2: But it's weird to reflect on this scene because it's

1598
01:27:57,960 --> 01:28:00,200
Speaker 2: still absolutely powerful. And I remember the first time I

1599
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:03,280
Speaker 2: saw it, the scene where Spock dies is very emotional.

1600
01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:09,040
Speaker 2: But I was not old enough to encounter this film,

1601
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:12,920
Speaker 2: you know, in the wild before Spock came back. So

1602
01:28:14,040 --> 01:28:16,200
Speaker 2: it must have hit pretty hard because you know, we

1603
01:28:16,280 --> 01:28:18,960
Speaker 2: had the tea's at the beginning, and certainly they lay

1604
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:20,720
Speaker 2: on it a bit, they lay it on a bit

1605
01:28:20,760 --> 01:28:22,680
Speaker 2: thick at the end here that there might be some

1606
01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:25,639
Speaker 2: way to bring Spock back. You don't want people rioting

1607
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:28,120
Speaker 2: in the theater, I guess, But still I think it

1608
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 2: would have hit pretty hard.

1609
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:32,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally. And actually I'm not even sure. I

1610
01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:33,920
Speaker 3: don't know the answer to this question. Did they know

1611
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:35,920
Speaker 3: at this point that they were going to bring Spock

1612
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 3: back or not.

1613
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:39,000
Speaker 2: I mean, they might have had an inkling that they

1614
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:42,400
Speaker 2: would want to, but I get from what I've read

1615
01:28:42,439 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 2: it's like there wasn't a guarantee that Nimoy would want

1616
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:47,479
Speaker 2: to come back. There certainly wasn't a guarantee that this

1617
01:28:47,479 --> 01:28:49,920
Speaker 2: film was going to be a big enough success to

1618
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:54,000
Speaker 2: do another picture the essentially the following year. So I

1619
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:57,160
Speaker 2: guess they just kind of left the door open, because

1620
01:28:57,400 --> 01:28:59,559
Speaker 2: again they lay it on a little thick here. It's like,

1621
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:02,519
Speaker 2: here's the off and it's landing on this new world.

1622
01:29:02,720 --> 01:29:05,120
Speaker 2: It's kind of implied there could be some sort of

1623
01:29:05,160 --> 01:29:08,040
Speaker 2: new life and you know, we just have to find

1624
01:29:08,040 --> 01:29:08,880
Speaker 2: out in the next film.

1625
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, and then we also get the thematic stinger,

1626
01:29:12,640 --> 01:29:16,719
Speaker 3: the very last thing, which is the characters are standing

1627
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 3: there looking at this planet after they have given Spock

1628
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:24,040
Speaker 3: the space burial, and somebody asks Kirk how he feels,

1629
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:28,840
Speaker 3: and he says, I feel young. Yeah, it kind of

1630
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:31,519
Speaker 3: he sells it. It works like you can see how

1631
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:33,720
Speaker 3: he does now after the events of the film, and

1632
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:36,680
Speaker 3: so that's his change from how we met him at

1633
01:29:36,680 --> 01:29:37,160
Speaker 3: the beginning.

1634
01:29:37,920 --> 01:29:41,759
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, So it's a great finish to a great film.

1635
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:44,120
Speaker 2: I almost hesitate to bring this up because again it's

1636
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:45,840
Speaker 2: I'm not making fun of the picture. But there is

1637
01:29:45,880 --> 01:29:48,320
Speaker 2: this one scene I think it's after the first major

1638
01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:52,160
Speaker 2: encounter between the two ships where the not my nephew

1639
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:58,800
Speaker 2: character has been horrifically injured in the engine room. Yes,

1640
01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:01,360
Speaker 2: and they are yeah, yeah, and Scotty brings him up

1641
01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:04,400
Speaker 2: in his arms, but brings him directly to the bridge. Yes,

1642
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:05,960
Speaker 2: and at them, I'm like, why did you bring him

1643
01:30:05,960 --> 01:30:09,000
Speaker 2: to the bridge? Dude? Take him to the medical bay. Yeah,

1644
01:30:09,080 --> 01:30:11,519
Speaker 2: I guess he's just you know, it's a moment that

1645
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:13,920
Speaker 2: is more about the drama and the characters than about

1646
01:30:14,120 --> 01:30:16,240
Speaker 2: like the logic of what you would actually do in

1647
01:30:16,280 --> 01:30:16,839
Speaker 2: that scenario.

1648
01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:21,400
Speaker 3: Nicholas Smeyer, I think has a sensibility here that's kind

1649
01:30:21,439 --> 01:30:23,639
Speaker 3: of like Spielberg's. I mean, you can point this out

1650
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:26,120
Speaker 3: in a lot of Spielberg movies, there are things that

1651
01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:28,880
Speaker 3: if you really think about them, it doesn't make sense

1652
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:32,160
Speaker 3: why a character would do that, But it hits so

1653
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:34,600
Speaker 3: well when it happens on screen that most of the

1654
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:36,840
Speaker 3: time you don't think about it. It doesn't occur to

1655
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:39,639
Speaker 3: you to question the plausibility of it. It's just like, oh,

1656
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:43,800
Speaker 3: that is emotionally affecting, and it just works and you

1657
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:44,960
Speaker 3: roll on to the next thing.

1658
01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:46,559
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I agree.

1659
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 3: But that engineer character also gets a nice moment as

1660
01:30:49,280 --> 01:30:51,599
Speaker 3: he's dying in sick Bay as well, because he reaches

1661
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:54,160
Speaker 3: up to Kirk and he says he's like, do I

1662
01:30:54,200 --> 01:30:57,920
Speaker 3: have the word he has? Or and Shattner looks down

1663
01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:02,040
Speaker 3: at him and says, warp speed. You could also imagine

1664
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:04,760
Speaker 3: somebody making fun of that, but I don't know. In context.

1665
01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:06,160
Speaker 3: It's pretty sweet.

1666
01:31:06,680 --> 01:31:10,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely Again, I think in the end everything works

1667
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:14,280
Speaker 2: here just so beautifully. It's just such a well constructed film,

1668
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:17,840
Speaker 2: has a lot of heart, It has some great action. Again,

1669
01:31:17,920 --> 01:31:21,519
Speaker 2: I would say it's got to be the best naval

1670
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:25,160
Speaker 2: battle in Star Trek media. If there's anything on par

1671
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:28,400
Speaker 2: with this, please write in and tell me which episode

1672
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:30,360
Speaker 2: or film I need to watch to follow up this

1673
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:31,880
Speaker 2: feeling that I'm having right now.

1674
01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:36,840
Speaker 3: Totally. I love how human it is. That's the main

1675
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 3: thing that really sticks in there about it. There are

1676
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:45,520
Speaker 3: certainly Star Trek stories that deal with more fascinating ideas

1677
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:50,160
Speaker 3: or that you could say, you know, present something that

1678
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:54,639
Speaker 3: is more novel in the science fiction sense or that

1679
01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:57,360
Speaker 3: kind of thing, But this is about as good as

1680
01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:00,000
Speaker 3: it gets ever in terms of just making the character

1681
01:32:00,200 --> 01:32:02,920
Speaker 3: feel like real humans and telling an emotional story.

1682
01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:05,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, there are plenty of even original Star Trek

1683
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:08,040
Speaker 2: episodes that are probably more cerebral in places, but this

1684
01:32:08,160 --> 01:32:12,519
Speaker 2: one is about heart and action and character absolutely.

1685
01:32:12,240 --> 01:32:14,120
Speaker 3: All right. That's all I got on Wrath of Cohn.

1686
01:32:14,479 --> 01:32:16,400
Speaker 2: All right, well, with that, we're going to close out

1687
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:18,320
Speaker 2: Star Trek week here and the Stuff to Blow Your

1688
01:32:18,360 --> 01:32:20,160
Speaker 2: Mind feed and we're going to close out this episode

1689
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:23,120
Speaker 2: of Weird House Cinema. But as always, we want to

1690
01:32:23,160 --> 01:32:25,559
Speaker 2: hear what you all have to say about all of this.

1691
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:28,679
Speaker 2: Write in with your thoughts on Star Trek in general,

1692
01:32:28,720 --> 01:32:31,439
Speaker 2: Star Trek movies, and of course Star Trek to the

1693
01:32:31,479 --> 01:32:33,800
Speaker 2: Wrath of con When did you see it for the

1694
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:35,479
Speaker 2: first time? Did you see it in the theater? If

1695
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 2: you did see it in the theater when it originally

1696
01:32:37,439 --> 01:32:40,200
Speaker 2: came out, what was the vibe like, how did everyone

1697
01:32:40,240 --> 01:32:42,840
Speaker 2: react to the death of Spock. That's the stuff I

1698
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:46,519
Speaker 2: want to know about. Let's see if let's see. At

1699
01:32:46,520 --> 01:32:48,240
Speaker 2: this point, we'll just go and remind you that Stuff

1700
01:32:48,240 --> 01:32:50,280
Speaker 2: to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and culture

1701
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:53,879
Speaker 2: podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Wednesdays

1702
01:32:53,880 --> 01:32:55,680
Speaker 2: we do a short form episode, and on Fridays we

1703
01:32:55,720 --> 01:32:58,160
Speaker 2: set aside most serious concerns to just talk about a

1704
01:32:58,160 --> 01:33:01,360
Speaker 2: weird film here on Weird House Cinema. You can follow

1705
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:04,160
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind on any of the social

1706
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:06,800
Speaker 2: media accounts out there, or at least the main ones.

1707
01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:10,400
Speaker 2: You can get the podcast anywhere you get your podcasts,

1708
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:14,599
Speaker 2: Just rate, review, and subscribe wherever you do that. Oh

1709
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:16,960
Speaker 2: and then finally, if you are on a letterbox, look

1710
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:19,080
Speaker 2: us up. We are a weird House on letterbox and

1711
01:33:19,080 --> 01:33:20,639
Speaker 2: you can get a nice list of all the movies

1712
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:23,360
Speaker 2: we've covered over the years, and sometimes a peek ahead

1713
01:33:23,400 --> 01:33:24,400
Speaker 2: at what comes next.

1714
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:28,360
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

1715
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:29,960
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1716
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:32,519
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1717
01:33:32,600 --> 01:33:34,599
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1718
01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:37,120
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1719
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:44,760
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

1720
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:47,800
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1721
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:50,679
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1722
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:54,080
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.