WEBVTT - Fan Favorite: Why Were These Books Banned? 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.080 Guess what mango with I will So I can't remember 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:08.160 if we've talked about this on this show before, but 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:10.600 but you know what the Wicked Bible is, right, definitely, 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.240 it's the Bible with that printing error that says, uh, 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:17.759 thou shalt commit adultery instead of thou shalt not commit auldulter. Yeah, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.639 that one word. There's a slight difference in the meaning there. 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.400 But I've always wanted to see one of these, and 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:25.640 there are actually only a few left in the world 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.160 right now, and it it took about a year for 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.320 people to realize the error. But when King Charles the 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:34.600 first caught on, he was livid. He decided to find 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.519 the printers something like three hundred pounds. He had their 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:41.920 printing licenses revoked and basically shame them out of their positions. 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:45.159 And of course the book was immediately banned. There was 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.680 this massive bonfire to collect and burn every copy of 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:52.280 these so called Wicked Bibles, but somehow, I think ten 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:55.360 or eleven copies managed to get through, and there of 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.760 course insanely valuable now. And actually, there's one other thing 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:01.800 I didn't realize about the book, that the adultery mistake 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.720 wasn't the only error in the book. What else was 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:07.640 wrong with it? According to the Washington Post and Deuteronomy, 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.920 it's supposed to say, behold, the Lord hath showed us 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.560 his glory and his greatness, but instead it says, behold, 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:20.600 our Lord has showed us his glory and his great arts. Yeah, 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.759 I mean that does seem problematic and just like a 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.240 little bit different than what it actually says, but it 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.679 points to a bigger theory. So Biblical scholars used to 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.080 think the Wicked Bible got its name because of one 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.960 unfortunate printing air, but with this second mistake, it actually 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.360 brings up the idea of sabotage. And there's all these 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:43.400 great conspiracy theories about who could have caused it and 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.160 who wanted to get these royal printers in trouble, and 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.680 it it makes the Wicked story even more fun. So 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.880 today's episode is about all the stories of banned books, 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:57.240 you know, from political exposes to Ulysses two, Where's Waldo 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.400 and how it got banned from prisons? So let's dive 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:24.400 in h hei their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:26.600 I'm Will Pearson and is always I'm joined by my 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.120 good friend Man guesh Ticketer and sitting on the other 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:33.360 side of that soundproof class proudly displaying his first edition 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:38.959 Captain Underpant's book That our Palin producer, Tristan McNeil. So, 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.359 I mean, I know, it's a cute gag from Tristan 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.600 showing off how many Captain Underpan's books he has. But 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:46.560 did you realize that in two thousand twelve, Captain Underpant's 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:50.960 was actually the number one banned book in America? No? Really, yeah, 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.000 apparently the a l A or the American Library Association 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:56.760 releases this annual list of the titles that were most 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:00.120 challenged or banned at libraries and schools, and that yar, 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:02.720 Captain Underpants actually beat out Fifty Shades of Gray for 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.920 the title, as well as books like Thirteen Reasons Why, 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.880 which you know some say glorified suicide. It also beat 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:12.440 out classics like Brave New World and To Kill a Mockingbird. 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.160 That said, I do have to say the book does 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.400 come with a warning on it that warns readers and 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:22.040 parents of readers from the outset. It's a sturgeon General's 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.639 warning and he reads some material in this book might 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:29.519 be considered offensive by those who don't wear underwear. That's 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.120 a helpful warning. I mean, you can see how the 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.160 word underpants might set off some alarm bells for parents, 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.280 and it seems like it's going to be this rude 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:40.000 book instead of actually a very sweet one. But you know, 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.520 on the other hand, the word underpants is exactly why 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:44.880 kids get excited to read the book. I mean, the 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:47.160 only movie my parents manned me from watching was Ferris 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.200 Bueller's Day Off, which I know, you know, but I 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.240 still think it's weird. And obviously it's because my dad 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.280 went to college at like thirteen or something and then 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.800 failed out because he was working on this underground newspaper 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.760 and playing in a Rolling Stones cover band and entering 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:07.480 jitterbug contest apparently, but ovisually he was doing everything except 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:09.680 going to school. But my mom didn't want me to 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.880 get any ideas from the movie. So did you ever 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.320 actually get to see Ferris Bueler's Day Off? Yeah? I 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:16.840 saw it like the weekend after it came out on 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.800 VHS at my uncle's house. You know, it immediately became 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.080 my favorite movie. Yeah, and it is a great movie. 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:23.880 So I'm glad you finally got to see it, and 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.520 I like that. We've already talked a little bit about 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.560 Captain Underpant's one of my kids favorites, of course when 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:31.760 they first discover it. But let me read you a 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:34.039 few other children's books that have been banned that that 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.360 actually kind of surprised me. And I'm going to kick 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.560 it off with Winnie the Pooh, which oddly has been 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:42.159 banned in a lot of countries. So is this because 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.279 the piglet, Because I know Miss Peggy was banned in 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.039 Saudi Arabia for I guess for just being a pig um. 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:50.560 But actually, you know, before I let you go, I've 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:52.880 got this tangent about pigs. Did you see that Pepper 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:56.400 Pig was banned in China? Which is just so sad. 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:58.440 But I did see this. This was just last week, right, 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.440 and I didn't actually see why it was banned. So fairly, 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.640 the cartoon character has been associated with like laziness and 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.039 slackers and also gangsters for some reason, like people are 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.520 getting Pepper Pig tattoos, which makes no sense. But the 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:16.200 countries instead asking its citizen institune into the government created alternative. 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:21.480 It's called Little Pig Dodo. But I cut you off, 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.039 so tell me a little bit more about winning to Pooh. Well, 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:26.680 you were right with one of the guests is and 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.000 that that's that. Some Muslim nations have banned the book 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.720 because of Piglet, But you know, according to the book's 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:35.960 enthusiast site Bookster, it has this long history of being banned. 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:38.680 And when Winnie the Pooh first came out, some American 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:43.159 and Polish leaders were outraged because talking animals can, I guess, 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.800 be seen as an insult to God. But the more 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.960 interesting thing, and something I hadn't thought about, was that 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.920 the books are often banned in communist countries, and that's 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.400 for a different reason. It's because the animals are seen 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.760 as representing the seven deadly sins. So if you think 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.839 about it, who is a glutton al is too proud? 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:04.760 I guess you've got Piglet, who's envious and ors of court, 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:09.159 slothful Rabbit gets a little too angry or wrathful? And 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:11.040 who does that leave? I guess that leaves us with Tigger, 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.320 who is I don't know, bouncy? Is that one of 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.520 the seven deadly sent But the books are read as 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:21.080 trying to inspire religion, which is of course problematic in 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.400 communist nations, So I mean that makes sense. But what 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.680 are some of the other surprises you found? All right, well, 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:29.280 let's see the other ones that have on the list. 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.760 You've got Ferdinand the Bull that was banned for being 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:35.839 too Pacifists, and Gandhi and Franklin Roosevelt loved it, and 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:41.040 of course Hitler called it degenerate democratic propaganda. I mean, 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:43.240 I feel like those courts should be on the book jacket, right, Like, 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:45.919 if it's not part of Hitler's Children's book club, that 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:50.200 feels like it's a good thing. But that idea of 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.080 Hitler's children's book club, all right, Well, the one that 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.839 surprised me the most. And you'll remember this from reading 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:58.360 it to your kids as as like babies, even as 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.159 brown Bear, brown Bear, you remember this book, right, yeah, definitely. 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:03.839 Well that this was a rare case where a book 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.800 was banned by accident. Yeah, I mean, I was about 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:08.960 to say, it's hard to imagine it being banned for 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.960 introducing colors and animals to kids. Well, the story is 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.480 that someone on the state Board of Education in Texas 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.320 was doing their research and googled the author's name. His 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.400 name is Bill Martin, and confused him with a different 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.640 Bill Martin, who had written a book called Ethical Marxism. 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.320 So that's why there's not quite the juicy story behind it. 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.320 I was hoping they had been offended for some ridiculous reason, 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.520 but they're just so many interesting ones on this list. Also, 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.960 one of our favorite authors or kids authors, Shel Silverstein, 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.120 his book A Light in the Attic was banned in Wisconsin. 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.520 So this is confusing to me because I mean, it 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:46.560 would make sense to me if The Giving Tree was banned, 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.320 because you know, the hero of that book is so selfish, 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.880 but A Lightened the Attics just so good. Oh, no 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.320 kidding it. And and I you'll remember this poem when 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.480 you hear it. But this is the offending poem. And 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.200 and you can decide for yourself. It's called how not 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.200 to have to dry the dishes. It goes like this, 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:05.880 if you have to dry the dishes, such an awful, 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.520 boring chore. If you have to dry the dishes stead 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:10.840 of going to the store. If you have to dry 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.520 the dishes and you drop one on the floor, maybe 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.520 they won't let you dry the dishes anymore. So basically, 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.600 you know, parents were worried about kids breaking their china 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:21.960 I guess, or having kids manipulate their way out of 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.400 chores or something. It's just so weird that this was 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.760 banned for that. I mean, it's ridiculous, right, Like, don't 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:31.760 we want mischievous kids, like, not too mischievous, but you 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.080 want a little Zanian nous and creativity and the kind 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.599 of kid who laughs at poems like that. Also, I 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.680 do think if you're gonna take things so literally, shouldn't 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.199 we be stopping kids from fables about like mice taking 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:44.840 thorns out of lions pause because you really shouldn't be 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:48.520 touching lions pause, Or from like watching things like Honey, 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:51.480 I shrunk the kids, because shrinking your kids isn't great parenting. 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:54.719 You're right, it's really not a good idea if you're 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:56.920 a parent. I'm glad that we've learned that now that 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.400 we're both parents. But it feels like, you know, when 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:01.880 you look at the breakdown of the types of books 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:04.600 that have been banned, especially kids books that have been banned, 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.520 you can break them down in a couple of ways. 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.200 Some of the bands are about the type of kid 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:11.840 that you want to raise. Obviously, a good communist who's 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.359 banning Winnie the Pooh is trying to protect future generations 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.120 from what they see as the shackles of religion, I guess. 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.840 And it's the same with Shelle Silverstein or Captain Underpants. 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.360 And you know, whether right or wrong, their parents who 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.120 want to raise a certain kind of good kid who's 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.800 never exposed to any rude ideas. But then there's another 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.079 type of book that gets banned, and that's a little 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:38.040 bit more about these difficult conversations. So how do you mean, Well, 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.000 there was this interesting article in the Atlantic and it 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:43.000 was written by Paul Ringel, who's a history professor, and 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.400 this from back in two thousand and sixteen. But he 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.800 was taking about about fifty two percent of books that 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:50.560 were banned or challenged in the ten years prior to 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:54.520 two thousand and sixteen were what you'd label as diverse content. 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.800 These are books like The Hate You Give or Wonder, 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:00.880 which you know about race, or religion in or gender, 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:05.360 sexual orientation, many cases, even disabilities. But you know, he 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.480 points out that this isn't a new issue. Parents have 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:12.160 always been wary of having difficult conversations with their kids. 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.520 In the eighteen hundreds, there was this magazine called Juvenile Miscellany, 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:18.400 which I guess was kind of like the highlights of 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:21.480 the Cricket magazine of its time, and it was filled 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:24.680 with stories for children, and it was distributed mostly in 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.800 New England. But you know, then started running these anti 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:31.720 slavery stories which really worked to humanize the slaves. And 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:36.040 this was in the eighteen thirties, and immediately the readership dropped. 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.200 Then the magazine folded about a year or so after that, 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.440 I think, and as he puts it quote, the outcome 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:46.839 had a chilling effect on other publications. Everyone was scared 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.400 of talking about issues of slavery, even though this audience 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.240 is actually in the Northeast. But his point was that 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.400 the publishers have always had this divide. You know, do 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:58.280 you write to please your kid readers while encouraging them 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.280 to think about the larger world, or do you please 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.920 the parent and stay in this comfortable, safe zone. And 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.600 then the case of something like shel Silverstein, isn't having 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:09.960 a conversation about how to read you know that you 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.840 don't just trust something because it's imprinted. It seems like 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.400 that's a good conversation to have pretty early in a 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.920 kid's life. Yeah, it's a good question, and I've actually 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.000 heard a similar argument that the reason it took so 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.960 long for books like Corduroy or Ezra Jack's Keith Snowy 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.440 Day to break the color barrier and children's books with 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.760 African American heroes was that publishers had actually been hesitant 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.000 to publish anything that made parents feel uncomfortable. But during 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:38.160 the era of civil rights, those worries were breaking down. Yeah, 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:40.520 and actually, while we're talking about race, let's let's take 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:42.960 a second to talk about huck Fen, which, of course 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:45.200 you know we've known, has been on the band Books 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.120 list over the years. And it's funny how this book 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:52.640 caused controversy from the very beginning, and for very different reasons. 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.200 At first, Mark Twain's classic was banned for being too 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:59.000 progressive and humanizing slaves, and it was also banned for 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:03.240 having low class language and conquered Massachusetts librarians called it 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.439 trash and said it was suitable only for the slums. 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.839 Then people in Missouri thought it showed them as backwards 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.319 talking as well, and then, you know, you fast forward 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.880 later in the fifties, then Double A CP raised the 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.199 issue of how many times raciel slurs are used in 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.240 the book, and eventually it got banned for being racist. 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:22.960 So I love The Adventures of Huckleberry Fin. I I 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:24.640 think when I read it, I was just so taken 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:26.760 with this idea of um, I don't know, like an 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.880 unreliable and mischievous storyteller and who just pulls you through 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.840 an adventure. And it was just so funny and unpretentious 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.960 to me and totally different from everything else I'd read. 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.360 But I just saw this thing in g Q. They 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.280 put out a list of twenty one books you don't 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:45.280 have to read, and it's kind of a read this 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:49.000 not that for classic literature. And Katie Weaver, who we 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:50.719 love from our Mental flast days and is one of 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:53.160 my favorite writers. She she made a really smart point, 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:57.120 she writes, quote, the worst crime committed by the Adventures 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.920 of Huckleberry Finn is that it makes first time Twin 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.520 readers think that Twain wrote tedious meandering stories. He did, 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.120 as is evidenced by this his book of Tedious Meandering Stories, 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.320 but he also wrote a lot of richly entertaining meandering 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.920 stories that are not constrained by the ham fisted narration 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.080 of a fictional backcountry child or suffused with his sweaty 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:21.240 imitation of a slave talking. Alternatively, read Frederick Douglas's firsthand 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.000 to Count of Slavery, which is equal parts shocking and heartbreaking. 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.480 While Jim, the affable slave friend of Huck Finn explains 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:33.200 things like lawsy as mighty glad, Frederick Douglas makes observations 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:37.120 like I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ. 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:41.040 I therefore hate the corrupt, slaveholding women, whipping cradle plundering, 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.400 partial and hypocritical Christianity of this land. I mean I 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:46.440 condenced to writing some And she goes on to talk 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.760 about how amazing the plot of narrative of the life 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.880 of Frederick Douglas is. But uh, it's a smart point 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.319 that we too often tell this like slave with the 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:57.680 smile type story to kids, and our cultural reference point 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.000 for a slave who's escaped is Jim from Huck Finn 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:05.320 instead of this unbelievably eloquent and really powerful Frederick Douglas. Yeah, 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:07.640 that's a great point, and I do love Katie's writing. 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:10.120 That's a that's a really really powerful quote from that. 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.079 But I actually want to talk about an equally important 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.600 book and one that might be seen as as powerful 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:20.600 and that not surprisingly Mango it's Where's Waldo? So, but 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.360 before we chat about why you can't read it in prisons, 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:39.440 let's take a quick break. Welcome back to Part Time Genius, 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:43.680 where we're talking banned books and specifically Where's Waldo? Now. Well, 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:45.720 I do have to confess. One of my favorite little 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.680 stories from my friend Jake Rosson is on the Where's 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.160 Waldo topless beach scandal? And every time I see a 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.600 Where's Waldo book, I think about that. But I don't 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.000 think this is what you were talking about when you 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.840 said Waldo was banned to prisons. Now that the Walldo 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.640 that got banned at prisons is Where's Waldo's Santa Spectacular? 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:07.560 But tell me what is this topless candal? It's really solicious. 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.400 So apparently it started when some kid in East Hampton, 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.480 New York got a Waldo book out of the library 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:14.560 and found that one of the tiny women in this 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.000 big beach scene was topless. She's a sunbathing on her 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.400 stomach and lying on top of her top and this 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:22.600 kid with an ice cream cone kind of touches the 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.360 cone to her back, so in the pic she's captured 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:28.000 arching her back up in shock. Yeah, I can see 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.240 why parents might have been a little concerned by this, 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.120 But I'm curious to know how much breast is little 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:37.240 Johnny seeing here. Well, from my initial reading, I thought 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.000 it was just a little side book, but apparently there's 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.920 definitely some nipple in there as well. And according to 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.920 Jake's reporting, the kid was quote as quote being disgusted 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.080 and upon finding not Waldo, he kind of immediately ran 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.920 to tell his mom, but not before showing it to 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:57.080 his younger brother first. But anyway, the mom got the 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.920 book banned from American libraries and bookstores, which is reasonable, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.120 I guess, but I'd forgotten this. The books are actually 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:07.000 from Europe. Oh that's right, He's what's he called here? Is? 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.520 Is Where's Wally? Right exactly? And you know, nudity and 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.480 topless sunbathing isn't exactly controversial there. So while Where's Waldo 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.920 was on the top of this books list throughout the nineties, 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.640 right next to Howard Stern's private Parts, Where's Wally actually 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:23.320 got to keep hanging out with the topless woman on 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:25.440 the beach, And of course it wasn't long before she 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:28.360 covered up for American audiences. But tell me about this 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.320 Santa Spectacular, because I'm super curious. Well, I'm glad you 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.760 took us on that on that tangent. I never thought 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.200 the word side boob would be said on Part Time Genius, 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.280 but we managed to to pull that off. But when 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.400 you talk about this one, actually the band in Texas 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.880 prisons was based less about a war on sand and 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:45.920 it was more about the fact that the book came 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.880 with stickers. Apparently, stickers are banned in prison for a 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.600 number of reasons. First, you can you can make band 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.800 aids with them, which is a problem because jails want 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.760 to know about injuries, both major and minor, that are 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.600 going on there. And also, stickers are an easy way 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.160 to cover her up a camera or a glass, and 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:04.840 that might keep the guards from looking at you, So 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:07.480 it makes sense for the prison to ban them. But 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:09.919 the author was partially pointing out the absurdity of the 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.400 fact that books like Mine comp and The Holy Book 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:16.720 of Adolf Hitler they're considered acceptable literature, while being seen 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.880 with a copy of Where's Waldo Santa Spectacular will land 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.280 you in solitary. I love that you could be a 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:25.480 badass in jail for just smuggling in a copy of 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.879 Wear's Waldo? And speaking of smuggling. Uh, I know, we 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:30.879 wanted to talk about my favorite story of all time, 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.800 how Ulysses by James Joyce got to the US, and 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.479 this involves one of our favorite publishers, Bennett Surf. That's right. 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.360 So Bennett Surf is the publisher who founded Random House, 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:42.600 and we've talked about him a couple of times. He's, 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:44.520 of course the guy who bet Dr Seuss that he 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.359 couldn't write a book with less than fifty words. We 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:49.760 mentioned that before and that the book ended up being 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:52.720 Green Eggs in Ham, But actually before we talked about 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:55.680 this anymore, can I tell you my favorite Bennett Surf fact? Definitely? 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.680 So Bennett Surf loved writers, and he liked hanging out 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.560 with him and talking to them about literature, and he 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.880 actually liked making edits. He once pleaded with iron Ran 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:08.640 to cut the John Galt speech, and I love her 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.119 response to this, She said, would you cut the Bible? 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.000 Which is just kind of like peaque iron Ran. But 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.480 my favorite fact is that he loved Gertrude Stein and 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.760 he would publish her books just a kind of be 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:24.720 in her orbit. And Surf enjoyed big personalities and challenging authors. 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.520 And he even admitted in his introduction to her book. 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.600 The book was called Geographical History of America or the 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.760 Relation of Human Nature to the Human Mind. It's quite 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.240 a long title, but this is how his intro to 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.520 the book starts. I must admit, frankly, I do not 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:41.560 know what ms Stein is talking about. I do not 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:47.600 even understand the title. That's ridiculous. Apparently she was fine 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.600 with it, and they had this relationship that was pretty playful, 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.920 and when he asked her to explain the line arose 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:57.360 as a rose as a rose, she just responded, Bennett, 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.119 you're a very nice boy, but you're rather stupid it 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.000 And I just always kind of was amused by that quote. 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.920 But let's talk about the Ultimate band book, which is 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.720 of course Ulysses definitely. So this telling is based on 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:11.399 a story I worked on in Mental Flass with my 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.359 pal Lucas Adams. But I'm going to try to keep 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.960 it as quick as I can. So Surf, as you 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.040 listeners have probably figured out by now, is this charismatic 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:23.320 and savvy and really energized character and he's trying to 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.760 make a name for his new company, Random House, and 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.560 Ulysses has been around for a while, but it gained 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.760 a reputation for being obscene. A Harvard professor at the 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:33.800 time it claimed that the work showed that Joyce was 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:38.160 quote in an advanced stage of psychic disintegration, and places 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.320 like Quarterly Reviewed talked about the book like it was 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.879 trying to destroy Western civilization. And of course all of 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.920 this baffled James Joyce right like he was a little 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.879 irritated that he'd written this masterpiece and poured all his 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.560 effort into this and he just couldn't make any money 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.160 off it. When it was being serialized in the US, 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.280 the courts banned it on similar obscenity grounds. The New 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.840 York Society for the Suppression of Vice had actually set 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.520 up this court case against it, and it made it 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:05.479 so that just owning a copy of the book was 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:09.320 this arrestable offense. I mean, this is crazy, right for Joyce, 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.120 it was just this book that he couldn't get anyone 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:16.439 to take on anyway. In the famous indie bookstore in 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.400 Paris called the Shakespeare Publishing Company starts publishing the book 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.560 in this light blue cover, and to be seen with 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:24.800 these books was kind of a thing for the literarty. 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:26.840 So if you wanted to read the book in the US, 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.000 you'd have to go there or sneak a copy over. 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.080 And it was kind of fun and illegal. But if 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:34.239 the Postal Service got their hands on the book, they 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.399 were under strict orders to burn it immediately, and you 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:39.399 could actually get arrested for owning a copy if you 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.600 really flaunted it. So it progresses like this for a while, 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.119 and then about ten years later two and this is 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:49.080 when Surf is really launching Random House. He's hanging out 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.359