Speaker 1: Guess what mango with I will So I can't remember
Speaker 1: if we've talked about this on this show before, but
Speaker 1: but you know what the Wicked Bible is, right, definitely,
Speaker 1: it's the Bible with that printing error that says, uh,
Speaker 1: thou shalt commit adultery instead of thou shalt not commit auldulter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that one word. There's a slight difference in the meaning there.
Speaker 1: But I've always wanted to see one of these, and
Speaker 1: there are actually only a few left in the world
Speaker 1: right now, and it it took about a year for
Speaker 1: people to realize the error. But when King Charles the
Speaker 1: first caught on, he was livid. He decided to find
Speaker 1: the printers something like three hundred pounds. He had their
Speaker 1: printing licenses revoked and basically shame them out of their positions.
Speaker 1: And of course the book was immediately banned. There was
Speaker 1: this massive bonfire to collect and burn every copy of
Speaker 1: these so called Wicked Bibles, but somehow, I think ten
Speaker 1: or eleven copies managed to get through, and there of
Speaker 1: course insanely valuable now. And actually, there's one other thing
Speaker 1: I didn't realize about the book, that the adultery mistake
Speaker 1: wasn't the only error in the book. What else was
Speaker 1: wrong with it? According to the Washington Post and Deuteronomy,
Speaker 1: it's supposed to say, behold, the Lord hath showed us
Speaker 1: his glory and his greatness, but instead it says, behold,
Speaker 1: our Lord has showed us his glory and his great arts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that does seem problematic and just like a
Speaker 1: little bit different than what it actually says, but it
Speaker 1: points to a bigger theory. So Biblical scholars used to
Speaker 1: think the Wicked Bible got its name because of one
Speaker 1: unfortunate printing air, but with this second mistake, it actually
Speaker 1: brings up the idea of sabotage. And there's all these
Speaker 1: great conspiracy theories about who could have caused it and
Speaker 1: who wanted to get these royal printers in trouble, and
Speaker 1: it it makes the Wicked story even more fun. So
Speaker 1: today's episode is about all the stories of banned books,
Speaker 1: you know, from political exposes to Ulysses two, Where's Waldo
Speaker 1: and how it got banned from prisons? So let's dive
Speaker 1: in h hei their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius.
Speaker 1: I'm Will Pearson and is always I'm joined by my
Speaker 1: good friend Man guesh Ticketer and sitting on the other
Speaker 1: side of that soundproof class proudly displaying his first edition
Speaker 1: Captain Underpant's book That our Palin producer, Tristan McNeil. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, it's a cute gag from Tristan
Speaker 1: showing off how many Captain Underpan's books he has. But
Speaker 1: did you realize that in two thousand twelve, Captain Underpant's
Speaker 1: was actually the number one banned book in America? No? Really, yeah,
Speaker 1: apparently the a l A or the American Library Association
Speaker 1: releases this annual list of the titles that were most
Speaker 1: challenged or banned at libraries and schools, and that yar,
Speaker 1: Captain Underpants actually beat out Fifty Shades of Gray for
Speaker 1: the title, as well as books like Thirteen Reasons Why,
Speaker 1: which you know some say glorified suicide. It also beat
Speaker 1: out classics like Brave New World and To Kill a Mockingbird.
Speaker 1: That said, I do have to say the book does
Speaker 1: come with a warning on it that warns readers and
Speaker 1: parents of readers from the outset. It's a sturgeon General's
Speaker 1: warning and he reads some material in this book might
Speaker 1: be considered offensive by those who don't wear underwear. That's
Speaker 1: a helpful warning. I mean, you can see how the
Speaker 1: word underpants might set off some alarm bells for parents,
Speaker 1: and it seems like it's going to be this rude
Speaker 1: book instead of actually a very sweet one. But you know,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, the word underpants is exactly why
Speaker 1: kids get excited to read the book. I mean, the
Speaker 1: only movie my parents manned me from watching was Ferris
Speaker 1: Bueller's Day Off, which I know, you know, but I
Speaker 1: still think it's weird. And obviously it's because my dad
Speaker 1: went to college at like thirteen or something and then
Speaker 1: failed out because he was working on this underground newspaper
Speaker 1: and playing in a Rolling Stones cover band and entering
Speaker 1: jitterbug contest apparently, but ovisually he was doing everything except
Speaker 1: going to school. But my mom didn't want me to
Speaker 1: get any ideas from the movie. So did you ever
Speaker 1: actually get to see Ferris Bueler's Day Off? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: saw it like the weekend after it came out on
Speaker 1: VHS at my uncle's house. You know, it immediately became
Speaker 1: my favorite movie. Yeah, and it is a great movie.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad you finally got to see it, and
Speaker 1: I like that. We've already talked a little bit about
Speaker 1: Captain Underpant's one of my kids favorites, of course when
Speaker 1: they first discover it. But let me read you a
Speaker 1: few other children's books that have been banned that that
Speaker 1: actually kind of surprised me. And I'm going to kick
Speaker 1: it off with Winnie the Pooh, which oddly has been
Speaker 1: banned in a lot of countries. So is this because
Speaker 1: the piglet, Because I know Miss Peggy was banned in
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia for I guess for just being a pig um.
Speaker 1: But actually, you know, before I let you go, I've
Speaker 1: got this tangent about pigs. Did you see that Pepper
Speaker 1: Pig was banned in China? Which is just so sad.
Speaker 1: But I did see this. This was just last week, right,
Speaker 1: and I didn't actually see why it was banned. So fairly,
Speaker 1: the cartoon character has been associated with like laziness and
Speaker 1: slackers and also gangsters for some reason, like people are
Speaker 1: getting Pepper Pig tattoos, which makes no sense. But the
Speaker 1: countries instead asking its citizen institune into the government created alternative.
Speaker 1: It's called Little Pig Dodo. But I cut you off,
Speaker 1: so tell me a little bit more about winning to Pooh. Well,
Speaker 1: you were right with one of the guests is and
Speaker 1: that that's that. Some Muslim nations have banned the book
Speaker 1: because of Piglet, But you know, according to the book's
Speaker 1: enthusiast site Bookster, it has this long history of being banned.
Speaker 1: And when Winnie the Pooh first came out, some American
Speaker 1: and Polish leaders were outraged because talking animals can, I guess,
Speaker 1: be seen as an insult to God. But the more
Speaker 1: interesting thing, and something I hadn't thought about, was that
Speaker 1: the books are often banned in communist countries, and that's
Speaker 1: for a different reason. It's because the animals are seen
Speaker 1: as representing the seven deadly sins. So if you think
Speaker 1: about it, who is a glutton al is too proud?
Speaker 1: I guess you've got Piglet, who's envious and ors of court,
Speaker 1: slothful Rabbit gets a little too angry or wrathful? And
Speaker 1: who does that leave? I guess that leaves us with Tigger,
Speaker 1: who is I don't know, bouncy? Is that one of
Speaker 1: the seven deadly sent But the books are read as
Speaker 1: trying to inspire religion, which is of course problematic in
Speaker 1: communist nations, So I mean that makes sense. But what
Speaker 1: are some of the other surprises you found? All right, well,
Speaker 1: let's see the other ones that have on the list.
Speaker 1: You've got Ferdinand the Bull that was banned for being
Speaker 1: too Pacifists, and Gandhi and Franklin Roosevelt loved it, and
Speaker 1: of course Hitler called it degenerate democratic propaganda. I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like those courts should be on the book jacket, right, Like,
Speaker 1: if it's not part of Hitler's Children's book club, that
Speaker 1: feels like it's a good thing. But that idea of
Speaker 1: Hitler's children's book club, all right, Well, the one that
Speaker 1: surprised me the most. And you'll remember this from reading
Speaker 1: it to your kids as as like babies, even as
Speaker 1: brown Bear, brown Bear, you remember this book, right, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: Well that this was a rare case where a book
Speaker 1: was banned by accident. Yeah, I mean, I was about
Speaker 1: to say, it's hard to imagine it being banned for
Speaker 1: introducing colors and animals to kids. Well, the story is
Speaker 1: that someone on the state Board of Education in Texas
Speaker 1: was doing their research and googled the author's name. His
Speaker 1: name is Bill Martin, and confused him with a different
Speaker 1: Bill Martin, who had written a book called Ethical Marxism.
Speaker 1: So that's why there's not quite the juicy story behind it.
Speaker 1: I was hoping they had been offended for some ridiculous reason,
Speaker 1: but they're just so many interesting ones on this list. Also,
Speaker 1: one of our favorite authors or kids authors, Shel Silverstein,
Speaker 1: his book A Light in the Attic was banned in Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: So this is confusing to me because I mean, it
Speaker 1: would make sense to me if The Giving Tree was banned,
Speaker 1: because you know, the hero of that book is so selfish,
Speaker 1: but A Lightened the Attics just so good. Oh, no
Speaker 1: kidding it. And and I you'll remember this poem when
Speaker 1: you hear it. But this is the offending poem. And
Speaker 1: and you can decide for yourself. It's called how not
Speaker 1: to have to dry the dishes. It goes like this,
Speaker 1: if you have to dry the dishes, such an awful,
Speaker 1: boring chore. If you have to dry the dishes stead
Speaker 1: of going to the store. If you have to dry
Speaker 1: the dishes and you drop one on the floor, maybe
Speaker 1: they won't let you dry the dishes anymore. So basically,
Speaker 1: you know, parents were worried about kids breaking their china
Speaker 1: I guess, or having kids manipulate their way out of
Speaker 1: chores or something. It's just so weird that this was
Speaker 1: banned for that. I mean, it's ridiculous, right, Like, don't
Speaker 1: we want mischievous kids, like, not too mischievous, but you
Speaker 1: want a little Zanian nous and creativity and the kind
Speaker 1: of kid who laughs at poems like that. Also, I
Speaker 1: do think if you're gonna take things so literally, shouldn't
Speaker 1: we be stopping kids from fables about like mice taking
Speaker 1: thorns out of lions pause because you really shouldn't be
Speaker 1: touching lions pause, Or from like watching things like Honey,
Speaker 1: I shrunk the kids, because shrinking your kids isn't great parenting.
Speaker 1: You're right, it's really not a good idea if you're
Speaker 1: a parent. I'm glad that we've learned that now that
Speaker 1: we're both parents. But it feels like, you know, when
Speaker 1: you look at the breakdown of the types of books
Speaker 1: that have been banned, especially kids books that have been banned,
Speaker 1: you can break them down in a couple of ways.
Speaker 1: Some of the bands are about the type of kid
Speaker 1: that you want to raise. Obviously, a good communist who's
Speaker 1: banning Winnie the Pooh is trying to protect future generations
Speaker 1: from what they see as the shackles of religion, I guess.
Speaker 1: And it's the same with Shelle Silverstein or Captain Underpants.
Speaker 1: And you know, whether right or wrong, their parents who
Speaker 1: want to raise a certain kind of good kid who's
Speaker 1: never exposed to any rude ideas. But then there's another
Speaker 1: type of book that gets banned, and that's a little
Speaker 1: bit more about these difficult conversations. So how do you mean, Well,
Speaker 1: there was this interesting article in the Atlantic and it
Speaker 1: was written by Paul Ringel, who's a history professor, and
Speaker 1: this from back in two thousand and sixteen. But he
Speaker 1: was taking about about fifty two percent of books that
Speaker 1: were banned or challenged in the ten years prior to
Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen were what you'd label as diverse content.
Speaker 1: These are books like The Hate You Give or Wonder,
Speaker 1: which you know about race, or religion in or gender,
Speaker 1: sexual orientation, many cases, even disabilities. But you know, he
Speaker 1: points out that this isn't a new issue. Parents have
Speaker 1: always been wary of having difficult conversations with their kids.
Speaker 1: In the eighteen hundreds, there was this magazine called Juvenile Miscellany,
Speaker 1: which I guess was kind of like the highlights of
Speaker 1: the Cricket magazine of its time, and it was filled
Speaker 1: with stories for children, and it was distributed mostly in
Speaker 1: New England. But you know, then started running these anti
Speaker 1: slavery stories which really worked to humanize the slaves. And
Speaker 1: this was in the eighteen thirties, and immediately the readership dropped.
Speaker 1: Then the magazine folded about a year or so after that,
Speaker 1: I think, and as he puts it quote, the outcome
Speaker 1: had a chilling effect on other publications. Everyone was scared
Speaker 1: of talking about issues of slavery, even though this audience
Speaker 1: is actually in the Northeast. But his point was that
Speaker 1: the publishers have always had this divide. You know, do
Speaker 1: you write to please your kid readers while encouraging them
Speaker 1: to think about the larger world, or do you please
Speaker 1: the parent and stay in this comfortable, safe zone. And
Speaker 1: then the case of something like shel Silverstein, isn't having
Speaker 1: a conversation about how to read you know that you
Speaker 1: don't just trust something because it's imprinted. It seems like
Speaker 1: that's a good conversation to have pretty early in a
Speaker 1: kid's life. Yeah, it's a good question, and I've actually
Speaker 1: heard a similar argument that the reason it took so
Speaker 1: long for books like Corduroy or Ezra Jack's Keith Snowy
Speaker 1: Day to break the color barrier and children's books with
Speaker 1: African American heroes was that publishers had actually been hesitant
Speaker 1: to publish anything that made parents feel uncomfortable. But during
Speaker 1: the era of civil rights, those worries were breaking down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and actually, while we're talking about race, let's let's take
Speaker 1: a second to talk about huck Fen, which, of course
Speaker 1: you know we've known, has been on the band Books
Speaker 1: list over the years. And it's funny how this book
Speaker 1: caused controversy from the very beginning, and for very different reasons.
Speaker 1: At first, Mark Twain's classic was banned for being too
Speaker 1: progressive and humanizing slaves, and it was also banned for
Speaker 1: having low class language and conquered Massachusetts librarians called it
Speaker 1: trash and said it was suitable only for the slums.
Speaker 1: Then people in Missouri thought it showed them as backwards
Speaker 1: talking as well, and then, you know, you fast forward
Speaker 1: later in the fifties, then Double A CP raised the
Speaker 1: issue of how many times raciel slurs are used in
Speaker 1: the book, and eventually it got banned for being racist.
Speaker 1: So I love The Adventures of Huckleberry Fin. I I
Speaker 1: think when I read it, I was just so taken
Speaker 1: with this idea of um, I don't know, like an
Speaker 1: unreliable and mischievous storyteller and who just pulls you through
Speaker 1: an adventure. And it was just so funny and unpretentious
Speaker 1: to me and totally different from everything else I'd read.
Speaker 1: But I just saw this thing in g Q. They
Speaker 1: put out a list of twenty one books you don't
Speaker 1: have to read, and it's kind of a read this
Speaker 1: not that for classic literature. And Katie Weaver, who we
Speaker 1: love from our Mental flast days and is one of
Speaker 1: my favorite writers. She she made a really smart point,
Speaker 1: she writes, quote, the worst crime committed by the Adventures
Speaker 1: of Huckleberry Finn is that it makes first time Twin
Speaker 1: readers think that Twain wrote tedious meandering stories. He did,
Speaker 1: as is evidenced by this his book of Tedious Meandering Stories,
Speaker 1: but he also wrote a lot of richly entertaining meandering
Speaker 1: stories that are not constrained by the ham fisted narration
Speaker 1: of a fictional backcountry child or suffused with his sweaty
Speaker 1: imitation of a slave talking. Alternatively, read Frederick Douglas's firsthand
Speaker 1: to Count of Slavery, which is equal parts shocking and heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: While Jim, the affable slave friend of Huck Finn explains
Speaker 1: things like lawsy as mighty glad, Frederick Douglas makes observations
Speaker 1: like I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ.
Speaker 1: I therefore hate the corrupt, slaveholding women, whipping cradle plundering,
Speaker 1: partial and hypocritical Christianity of this land. I mean I
Speaker 1: condenced to writing some And she goes on to talk
Speaker 1: about how amazing the plot of narrative of the life
Speaker 1: of Frederick Douglas is. But uh, it's a smart point
Speaker 1: that we too often tell this like slave with the
Speaker 1: smile type story to kids, and our cultural reference point
Speaker 1: for a slave who's escaped is Jim from Huck Finn
Speaker 1: instead of this unbelievably eloquent and really powerful Frederick Douglas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a great point, and I do love Katie's writing.
Speaker 1: That's a that's a really really powerful quote from that.
Speaker 1: But I actually want to talk about an equally important
Speaker 1: book and one that might be seen as as powerful
Speaker 1: and that not surprisingly Mango it's Where's Waldo? So, but
Speaker 1: before we chat about why you can't read it in prisons,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. Welcome back to Part Time Genius,
Speaker 1: where we're talking banned books and specifically Where's Waldo? Now. Well,
Speaker 1: I do have to confess. One of my favorite little
Speaker 1: stories from my friend Jake Rosson is on the Where's
Speaker 1: Waldo topless beach scandal? And every time I see a
Speaker 1: Where's Waldo book, I think about that. But I don't
Speaker 1: think this is what you were talking about when you
Speaker 1: said Waldo was banned to prisons. Now that the Walldo
Speaker 1: that got banned at prisons is Where's Waldo's Santa Spectacular?
Speaker 1: But tell me what is this topless candal? It's really solicious.
Speaker 1: So apparently it started when some kid in East Hampton,
Speaker 1: New York got a Waldo book out of the library
Speaker 1: and found that one of the tiny women in this
Speaker 1: big beach scene was topless. She's a sunbathing on her
Speaker 1: stomach and lying on top of her top and this
Speaker 1: kid with an ice cream cone kind of touches the
Speaker 1: cone to her back, so in the pic she's captured
Speaker 1: arching her back up in shock. Yeah, I can see
Speaker 1: why parents might have been a little concerned by this,
Speaker 1: But I'm curious to know how much breast is little
Speaker 1: Johnny seeing here. Well, from my initial reading, I thought
Speaker 1: it was just a little side book, but apparently there's
Speaker 1: definitely some nipple in there as well. And according to
Speaker 1: Jake's reporting, the kid was quote as quote being disgusted
Speaker 1: and upon finding not Waldo, he kind of immediately ran
Speaker 1: to tell his mom, but not before showing it to
Speaker 1: his younger brother first. But anyway, the mom got the
Speaker 1: book banned from American libraries and bookstores, which is reasonable,
Speaker 1: I guess, but I'd forgotten this. The books are actually
Speaker 1: from Europe. Oh that's right, He's what's he called here? Is?
Speaker 1: Is Where's Wally? Right exactly? And you know, nudity and
Speaker 1: topless sunbathing isn't exactly controversial there. So while Where's Waldo
Speaker 1: was on the top of this books list throughout the nineties,
Speaker 1: right next to Howard Stern's private Parts, Where's Wally actually
Speaker 1: got to keep hanging out with the topless woman on
Speaker 1: the beach, And of course it wasn't long before she
Speaker 1: covered up for American audiences. But tell me about this
Speaker 1: Santa Spectacular, because I'm super curious. Well, I'm glad you
Speaker 1: took us on that on that tangent. I never thought
Speaker 1: the word side boob would be said on Part Time Genius,
Speaker 1: but we managed to to pull that off. But when
Speaker 1: you talk about this one, actually the band in Texas
Speaker 1: prisons was based less about a war on sand and
Speaker 1: it was more about the fact that the book came
Speaker 1: with stickers. Apparently, stickers are banned in prison for a
Speaker 1: number of reasons. First, you can you can make band
Speaker 1: aids with them, which is a problem because jails want
Speaker 1: to know about injuries, both major and minor, that are
Speaker 1: going on there. And also, stickers are an easy way
Speaker 1: to cover her up a camera or a glass, and
Speaker 1: that might keep the guards from looking at you, So
Speaker 1: it makes sense for the prison to ban them. But
Speaker 1: the author was partially pointing out the absurdity of the
Speaker 1: fact that books like Mine comp and The Holy Book
Speaker 1: of Adolf Hitler they're considered acceptable literature, while being seen
Speaker 1: with a copy of Where's Waldo Santa Spectacular will land
Speaker 1: you in solitary. I love that you could be a
Speaker 1: badass in jail for just smuggling in a copy of
Speaker 1: Wear's Waldo? And speaking of smuggling. Uh, I know, we
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about my favorite story of all time,
Speaker 1: how Ulysses by James Joyce got to the US, and
Speaker 1: this involves one of our favorite publishers, Bennett Surf. That's right.
Speaker 1: So Bennett Surf is the publisher who founded Random House,
Speaker 1: and we've talked about him a couple of times. He's,
Speaker 1: of course the guy who bet Dr Seuss that he
Speaker 1: couldn't write a book with less than fifty words. We
Speaker 1: mentioned that before and that the book ended up being
Speaker 1: Green Eggs in Ham, But actually before we talked about
Speaker 1: this anymore, can I tell you my favorite Bennett Surf fact? Definitely?
Speaker 1: So Bennett Surf loved writers, and he liked hanging out
Speaker 1: with him and talking to them about literature, and he
Speaker 1: actually liked making edits. He once pleaded with iron Ran
Speaker 1: to cut the John Galt speech, and I love her
Speaker 1: response to this, She said, would you cut the Bible?
Speaker 1: Which is just kind of like peaque iron Ran. But
Speaker 1: my favorite fact is that he loved Gertrude Stein and
Speaker 1: he would publish her books just a kind of be
Speaker 1: in her orbit. And Surf enjoyed big personalities and challenging authors.
Speaker 1: And he even admitted in his introduction to her book.
Speaker 1: The book was called Geographical History of America or the
Speaker 1: Relation of Human Nature to the Human Mind. It's quite
Speaker 1: a long title, but this is how his intro to
Speaker 1: the book starts. I must admit, frankly, I do not
Speaker 1: know what ms Stein is talking about. I do not
Speaker 1: even understand the title. That's ridiculous. Apparently she was fine
Speaker 1: with it, and they had this relationship that was pretty playful,
Speaker 1: and when he asked her to explain the line arose
Speaker 1: as a rose as a rose, she just responded, Bennett,
Speaker 1: you're a very nice boy, but you're rather stupid it
Speaker 1: And I just always kind of was amused by that quote.
Speaker 1: But let's talk about the Ultimate band book, which is
Speaker 1: of course Ulysses definitely. So this telling is based on
Speaker 1: a story I worked on in Mental Flass with my
Speaker 1: pal Lucas Adams. But I'm going to try to keep
Speaker 1: it as quick as I can. So Surf, as you
Speaker 1: listeners have probably figured out by now, is this charismatic
Speaker 1: and savvy and really energized character and he's trying to
Speaker 1: make a name for his new company, Random House, and
Speaker 1: Ulysses has been around for a while, but it gained
Speaker 1: a reputation for being obscene. A Harvard professor at the
Speaker 1: time it claimed that the work showed that Joyce was
Speaker 1: quote in an advanced stage of psychic disintegration, and places
Speaker 1: like Quarterly Reviewed talked about the book like it was
Speaker 1: trying to destroy Western civilization. And of course all of
Speaker 1: this baffled James Joyce right like he was a little
Speaker 1: irritated that he'd written this masterpiece and poured all his
Speaker 1: effort into this and he just couldn't make any money
Speaker 1: off it. When it was being serialized in the US,
Speaker 1: the courts banned it on similar obscenity grounds. The New
Speaker 1: York Society for the Suppression of Vice had actually set
Speaker 1: up this court case against it, and it made it
Speaker 1: so that just owning a copy of the book was
Speaker 1: this arrestable offense. I mean, this is crazy, right for Joyce,
Speaker 1: it was just this book that he couldn't get anyone
Speaker 1: to take on anyway. In the famous indie bookstore in
Speaker 1: Paris called the Shakespeare Publishing Company starts publishing the book
Speaker 1: in this light blue cover, and to be seen with
Speaker 1: these books was kind of a thing for the literarty.
Speaker 1: So if you wanted to read the book in the US,
Speaker 1: you'd have to go there or sneak a copy over.
Speaker 1: And it was kind of fun and illegal. But if
Speaker 1: the Postal Service got their hands on the book, they
Speaker 1: were under strict orders to burn it immediately, and you
Speaker 1: could actually get arrested for owning a copy if you
Speaker 1: really flaunted it. So it progresses like this for a while,
Speaker 1: and then about ten years later two and this is
Speaker 1: when Surf is really launching Random House. He's hanging out
Speaker 1: with this brilliant lawyer friend of his name, Morris Ernst,
Speaker 1: and Ernest is talking about how disgusted he is with
Speaker 1: censorship and the censorship of this book in particular, and
Speaker 1: Surf immediately hatches a plan, really smells opportunity for his
Speaker 1: little company. So he thinks, what if he can get
Speaker 1: Earnest to represent him in court. He paid the court fees,
Speaker 1: and if Earnest wins, he gets a cut of the royalties.
Speaker 1: So he proposes this to Earns and Earns degrees and
Speaker 1: now he just has to get James Joyce on for
Speaker 1: so he writes this letter on why Joyce should take
Speaker 1: a chance on him, and of course Joyce is delighted
Speaker 1: because he hasn't made a cent off this thing in
Speaker 1: England or in the US. And just one little detail
Speaker 1: here that's just so funny to be when Surf meets
Speaker 1: Joyce in Paris. Joyce shows up in a sling and
Speaker 1: foot and head bandages and also this eye patch over
Speaker 1: his left eye, and Surf didn't know what was going on.
Speaker 1: He actually didn't realize that Joyce always wore the eye patch,
Speaker 1: but the rest of the injuries were fresh. And apparently
Speaker 1: when Joyce had heard the news about this Masterfiees getting
Speaker 1: published or possibly published in America, he was so giddy
Speaker 1: that he accidentally walked right into traffic and got slammed
Speaker 1: by a taxi cab. Anyway, he still somehow makes it
Speaker 1: to Paris, where Surf makes a deal with him. He's
Speaker 1: going to give him dollars and you know, royalties whether
Speaker 1: or not they win the court kids son. Joyce is overjoyed.
Speaker 1: So Surf has this Ace lawyer and he is the
Speaker 1: blessing of the novelist. But here's where things get absolutely bonkers.
Speaker 1: So Surf now has to do the worst and most
Speaker 1: important smuggling job in the world. He and Earnest want
Speaker 1: to bring the book back to the US, but they
Speaker 1: need to be caught with it so that they can
Speaker 1: start a court case over it. And so this is
Speaker 1: unbelievably planned out like the book World's Oceans eleven. First,
Speaker 1: Surf and Earnest look for a favorable judge, someone with
Speaker 1: an artsy bent, who you know, might be in favor
Speaker 1: of the arts and would rule and favor of the arts.
Speaker 1: They need an intellectual and they find it in this
Speaker 1: judge named John M. Woolsley. And then they have to
Speaker 1: locate the specific port to get caught at so that
Speaker 1: they can get that judge. So somehow they figured that out,
Speaker 1: but it turns out he's on vacation, so they actually
Speaker 1: have to delay till he's back. But then they don't
Speaker 1: just want to give him a book, right, They want
Speaker 1: to stack the deck a little. So they take a
Speaker 1: copy of this light blue book from Paris and they
Speaker 1: start pasting in as much critical praise in the book
Speaker 1: as possible. Inside the covers. They actually attached praise from
Speaker 1: Ezra Pound and Ford madox Ford and all these other
Speaker 1: giants of literature and critics who loved the book. And
Speaker 1: as Surf put it, by the time we were finished
Speaker 1: the covers were bulging, and now all they have to
Speaker 1: do is find a terrible smuggler and pay him to
Speaker 1: get caught with the book at customs, which sounds easy,
Speaker 1: but here's where it gets hilarious. So the smuggler has
Speaker 1: this book in his suitcase. He's getting off of the
Speaker 1: right port, but it's so hot and there's so many
Speaker 1: people on this summer day at customs that the officers
Speaker 1: are just waving people through. And this was not the plan.
Speaker 1: This guy had been paid explicitly to get caught, and
Speaker 1: if he goes through customs, his whole journey to Paris
Speaker 1: and back would have been for not so he starts
Speaker 1: making a fuss. He tells the inspector, I insist you
Speaker 1: opened the bag and search it, and the officer is
Speaker 1: just like, it's too hot, and so the smuggler starts confessing.
Speaker 1: He says there's something in there that's contraband, and I
Speaker 1: insist that it be searched. So they just keep bickering,
Speaker 1: and the officer finally does it and finds this copy
Speaker 1: of Ulysses and he sort of just shrugs him through.
Speaker 1: And then the smugglers as I demand that you sees
Speaker 1: this book. And while the officers telling him, look, it's
Speaker 1: a hundred degrees in here, and I'm saying you can
Speaker 1: just go through the smugglers, going on about what the
Speaker 1: officers duties are, and what the officers duties are as
Speaker 1: an American official and laws, and finally he just keeps
Speaker 1: ranting for such a long time that the manager comes over,
Speaker 1: and of course, you know, the supervising official also just
Speaker 1: wants to get this over with. He wants the irritating
Speaker 1: passengers to go through, but uh, he keeps complaining. And
Speaker 1: finally they realized this dude isn't going to stop, and
Speaker 1: then they impound the book. And the case was pretty breezy, right,
Speaker 1: very it took just two days. And you know this
Speaker 1: Judge Wolseley read the book and all the criticism, and
Speaker 1: then he actually consulted two of his friends were also
Speaker 1: fans of literature, and while he said the book wasn't
Speaker 1: easy to read or understand, he wrote, quote, each word
Speaker 1: of the book contributes like a bit of a mosaic
Speaker 1: to the detail of the picture which Joyce is seeking
Speaker 1: to construct for his readers. He also called Ulysses a
Speaker 1: sincere and serious attempt to devise a new literary method
Speaker 1: for the observation description of mankind. And you know, in
Speaker 1: removing this ban on the book, Welsley's point was that
Speaker 1: the average reader should be given access to books like
Speaker 1: ULYSSI is because it's only the normal person that the
Speaker 1: law is concerned with, which is pretty important, right. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's often the squeaky wheels on these extreme ends who
Speaker 1: get the judgments and the laws passed. But Wolsey was
Speaker 1: designing for the you know, I guess the normal person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing how fast Surf also jumped on
Speaker 1: this decision, like he had the printing press ready to
Speaker 1: kick on ten minutes after they got the verdict. And
Speaker 1: the case actually got appealed, but it one two to
Speaker 1: one in circuit court. And Joyce, for his part, was
Speaker 1: super excited. You know, the fact that this case one
Speaker 1: in America meant that the floodgates would open, and he
Speaker 1: knew England wasn't gonna be far behind. In fact, Surf
Speaker 1: actually said that Joyce was so excited he thought he
Speaker 1: might emigrate to the US, but then it turned out
Speaker 1: he was too afraid to get on a boat to
Speaker 1: make the journey. And as for the case, itself. It
Speaker 1: actually ended up being this landmark judgment that was cited
Speaker 1: in future obscenity cases, including Tropic of Cancer. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's funny because I read this New Yorker story about
Speaker 1: Walter Minton. He was the publisher at Putnam and he
Speaker 1: was responsible for publishing Tropic of Cancer as well as
Speaker 1: Lolita and quite a few other important books. And when
Speaker 1: he was about to publish Norman Mailer, Bennett Serf actually
Speaker 1: called him up and warned him not to publish the
Speaker 1: books because he was afraid the censors would come down
Speaker 1: on everybody as a result. And of course Minton, who
Speaker 1: was in the same mold as Serf, actually took out
Speaker 1: an ad for the book that said the book six
Speaker 1: publishers refused to bring you. It's kind of funny how
Speaker 1: cyclical this stuff is. But anyway, we we've got a
Speaker 1: few more stories to get through. But before we do that,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. Welcome back to Part time Genius.
Speaker 1: So Mango, one of the things I've been thinking about
Speaker 1: a lot of how would you ban a book you
Speaker 1: actually just give it so much more attention. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: we did this story a while back on this book.
Speaker 1: It was called the Minute Book of the General Council
Speaker 1: of the International Working Men's Association. And you know that's
Speaker 1: a long title, but it was actually supposedly seen as
Speaker 1: this foundational document of Karl Marx in this group. It
Speaker 1: ended up somehow getting locked up in this British library,
Speaker 1: was protected by this very strict British librarian for years,
Speaker 1: and people just kept obsessing over how important this book
Speaker 1: was and they couldn't get their hands on it. And
Speaker 1: you know, they thought it would actually show you how
Speaker 1: to start revolutions and how to turn capitalists into socialists.
Speaker 1: And instead, when it was finally revealed to the public
Speaker 1: what was in it, it just ended up being this
Speaker 1: like little balanced book of accounts. It was a ledger
Speaker 1: for the club essentially, and it was totally anti climatic.
Speaker 1: But when the USS are finally published it, you know,
Speaker 1: no one paid attention to it. I mean, it's interesting
Speaker 1: to hear what's been happening in Hong Kong. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you heard this episode about this from from
Speaker 1: The Daily, one of our our favorite podcast. I mean,
Speaker 1: I love The Daily, but I actually haven't heard this one. Well,
Speaker 1: there's this publisher there that have been publishing books on
Speaker 1: the sex lives and seedy gossip about ministers, and it
Speaker 1: was all nonfiction, I believe, And he had some cover
Speaker 1: by operating from Hong Kong, which has of course been
Speaker 1: part of China since nine but it has that British
Speaker 1: legacy there, so just like Surf, he'd figured out which
Speaker 1: ports were important, though he was actually smuggling and was
Speaker 1: getting like n of the books through. But when he
Speaker 1: published a book about the President's extra marital affairs, he
Speaker 1: and his colleagues were kidnapped in the mainland for months
Speaker 1: I think it was. And it's a crazy story and
Speaker 1: eventually he gets out and starts operating again from Taiwan.
Speaker 1: But it's just so good and it's also an amazing
Speaker 1: reminder of how good we have it here. But anyway,
Speaker 1: before we close out the show, I wanted to tell
Speaker 1: you one quick story about Judy Bloom. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: Judic Boom is my favorite. Like, I actually just got
Speaker 1: my son hooked onto Super Funch series, partially because he
Speaker 1: was missing New York City and those books actually talk
Speaker 1: a lot about the city and moving and also what
Speaker 1: it's like to have a ridiculous and irritating younger sibling.
Speaker 1: But are you going to talk about Are you there, God,
Speaker 1: it's me, Margaret. Well, that's definitely part of it. So
Speaker 1: so Judy Balloons had a few books that have been banned,
Speaker 1: but that's probably her most famous because it talks about
Speaker 1: puberty and getting your period. And I read this story
Speaker 1: in the Times where she talked about why she thought
Speaker 1: the book was banned, and she said, quote, I think
Speaker 1: the feeling was if my child doesn't read this, my
Speaker 1: child won't know about it, and it's not going to
Speaker 1: happen to my child. And I used to get up
Speaker 1: there on stage and say, I have news for you.
Speaker 1: Your kids are going through puberty, whether you like it
Speaker 1: or not, So why not help them. It's going to
Speaker 1: happen whether they read my books or no books or
Speaker 1: someone else's books. Man, I love that. Again, it does
Speaker 1: go back to that difficult conversation, those things you try
Speaker 1: to avoid with your kids. Yeah. But the funniest part
Speaker 1: is that when people come to visit the bookstore she
Speaker 1: founded in Key West, it's called Books and Books, she
Speaker 1: takes great pleasure in pushing banned books onto them. As
Speaker 1: she told The Times, it's my new thrill as a
Speaker 1: bookseller to put that right book into the hands of
Speaker 1: someone who appreciates what it's saying, which is what she
Speaker 1: said after she sold a couple of book about two
Speaker 1: male penguins who hatch and raise a baby bird together
Speaker 1: and it's called and Tango Makes Three. I like that
Speaker 1: She's still out there fighting for ben books. What a superhero.
Speaker 1: Well why don't we end on that note. But before
Speaker 1: we go, let's get in the fact off and instead
Speaker 1: of just doing it on banned books, how about we
Speaker 1: opened it up to all banned things. All right, let's
Speaker 1: do it. Well. I think we all remember that George H. W.
Speaker 1: Bush hated broccoli, But what I've forgotten was the statement
Speaker 1: he made about banning broccoli from being served on Air
Speaker 1: Force one. And here's what it said. I don't like
Speaker 1: broccoli and I haven't liked it since I was a
Speaker 1: little kid and my mother made me eat it. And
Speaker 1: I'm president of the United States and I'm not going
Speaker 1: to eat broccoli anymore. So apparently he just used to
Speaker 1: shovel down junk food. I saw this in the Times,
Speaker 1: but they described the food he ate as everything that
Speaker 1: quote can be procured at baseball games, fast food joints,
Speaker 1: or seven eleven beef, jerky, nacho's, tacos, chili ree, fried beans, hamburgers,
Speaker 1: hot dogs, barbecue, ribs, candy, popcorn, ice cream, and cake. Actually,
Speaker 1: that makes me hungry just reading that quote. But when
Speaker 1: Peggy Noonan saw him eat, she described it like an
Speaker 1: embarrassed teenage boy. And on the few occasions he tried
Speaker 1: to eat something healthy like yogurt, he'd quote spice it
Speaker 1: up with butter fingers. That's pretty amazing. And I had
Speaker 1: no idea he was such a poor eater. Slash also
Speaker 1: my eating soulmate. But exactly, I actually remember when he
Speaker 1: said that thing about proccly, and I feel like his
Speaker 1: poll numbers in my fourth grade class just shut up immediately.
Speaker 1: So here's one about divis and butt head. Basically, they
Speaker 1: got banned early in the show from shouting fire because
Speaker 1: people thought the cartoon was leading to arson cases, so
Speaker 1: to avoid the sensors, they would shout words like fryer instead. Gosh,
Speaker 1: that's so ridiculous. All right, Well, according to the New
Speaker 1: York Or, China has a banned on time traveling books
Speaker 1: and movies because it quote disrespects history. Also, if you're
Speaker 1: in Beijing, you should be where there's a height limit
Speaker 1: on dogs, so keep your pets under fourteen inches. Also,
Speaker 1: if you don't have permission from China's government, you can't
Speaker 1: reincarnate their mango. Just keep that in mind. Got it.
Speaker 1: So no hot tub time machine, no traveling with a
Speaker 1: great day, and and no reincarnation. I actually feel it's
Speaker 1: like the hot tub time machine part that's the hardest
Speaker 1: for me. So here's what I like. When the Soviet
Speaker 1: Union was still a thing, comedians had to run all
Speaker 1: their jokes by the Department of Jokes. It was actually
Speaker 1: called the Humor Department of the Censorship Apparatus of the
Speaker 1: Soviet Ministry of Culture, and they would cut any joke
Speaker 1: you said about politics, religion, or sex, which meant that
Speaker 1: most routines were based on animal jokes. I just love
Speaker 1: the idea that if you're really trying to carve out
Speaker 1: like a career as a comedian, you'd have to have
Speaker 1: like a tight five on hamsters. All right. Well, here's
Speaker 1: something else that I had forgotten. The n C double
Speaker 1: A at one point banned the slam dunk basically because
Speaker 1: they wanted to keep one player from scoring. It was
Speaker 1: actually called the lu al cinder rule, and it was
Speaker 1: introduced just to keep Kareem Abdul Jabbar from scoring. There's
Speaker 1: an article in Cracked about this, and as they put it,
Speaker 1: n C double A officials claimed that they were simply
Speaker 1: banning a non skillful shot, while Kareem saw it as
Speaker 1: a racist attempt to stop black people from invading the game.
Speaker 1: And it's Crack rightly points out that might sound far
Speaker 1: fetched until you remember that this was a mere three
Speaker 1: years after the Civil Rights Act. Um, and that's interesting.
Speaker 1: And you know, I can't beat a Kareem fact. I.
Speaker 1: I think you have to take home today's trophy. I
Speaker 1: think we probably all understand that you really cannot be
Speaker 1: a Kareem abdul Jabbar fact. So thanks so much. I
Speaker 1: kind of knew that was gonna be my winner today.
Speaker 1: But I'm sure there are plenty of great facts about
Speaker 1: banned books or anything that was banned in general, and
Speaker 1: we would love to hear those from you. As always,
Speaker 1: you can email us part time genius at how stuff
Speaker 1: Works dot com or calls on our seven fact hotline
Speaker 1: one eight four four pt Genius. We also love to
Speaker 1: hear from you on Facebook or Twitter. But thanks so
Speaker 1: much for listening. Thanks again for listening part time. Genius
Speaker 1: is a production of how stuff works, and wouldn't be
Speaker 1: possible without several brilliant people who do the important things
Speaker 1: we couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan McNeil does the
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Speaker 1: the mixy mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland does the exact
Speaker 1: producer thing. Gay blues Yer is our lead researcher, with
Speaker 1: support from the Research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown
Speaker 1: and Lucas Adams and Eve Jeff Cook gets the show
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Speaker 1: you heard, we hope you'll subscribe, And if you really
Speaker 1: really like what you've heard, maybe you could leave a
Speaker 1: good review for us. Do we do? We forget Jason?
Speaker 1: Jason who the DESI