1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Guess what mango with I will So I can't remember 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: if we've talked about this on this show before, but 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: but you know what the Wicked Bible is, right, definitely, 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: it's the Bible with that printing error that says, uh, 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: thou shalt commit adultery instead of thou shalt not commit auldulter. Yeah, 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: that one word. There's a slight difference in the meaning there. 7 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: But I've always wanted to see one of these, and 8 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: there are actually only a few left in the world 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: right now, and it it took about a year for 10 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: people to realize the error. But when King Charles the 11 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: first caught on, he was livid. He decided to find 12 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: the printers something like three hundred pounds. He had their 13 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: printing licenses revoked and basically shame them out of their positions. 14 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: And of course the book was immediately banned. There was 15 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: this massive bonfire to collect and burn every copy of 16 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: these so called Wicked Bibles, but somehow, I think ten 17 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: or eleven copies managed to get through, and there of 18 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: course insanely valuable now. And actually, there's one other thing 19 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: I didn't realize about the book, that the adultery mistake 20 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: wasn't the only error in the book. What else was 21 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: wrong with it? According to the Washington Post and Deuteronomy, 22 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: it's supposed to say, behold, the Lord hath showed us 23 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: his glory and his greatness, but instead it says, behold, 24 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: our Lord has showed us his glory and his great arts. Yeah, 25 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 1: I mean that does seem problematic and just like a 26 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: little bit different than what it actually says, but it 27 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: points to a bigger theory. So Biblical scholars used to 28 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: think the Wicked Bible got its name because of one 29 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: unfortunate printing air, but with this second mistake, it actually 30 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: brings up the idea of sabotage. And there's all these 31 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: great conspiracy theories about who could have caused it and 32 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: who wanted to get these royal printers in trouble, and 33 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: it it makes the Wicked story even more fun. So 34 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: today's episode is about all the stories of banned books, 35 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: you know, from political exposes to Ulysses two, Where's Waldo 36 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: and how it got banned from prisons? So let's dive 37 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: in h hei their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. 38 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: I'm Will Pearson and is always I'm joined by my 39 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: good friend Man guesh Ticketer and sitting on the other 40 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: side of that soundproof class proudly displaying his first edition 41 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 1: Captain Underpant's book That our Palin producer, Tristan McNeil. So, 42 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: I mean, I know, it's a cute gag from Tristan 43 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: showing off how many Captain Underpan's books he has. But 44 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: did you realize that in two thousand twelve, Captain Underpant's 45 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: was actually the number one banned book in America? No? Really, yeah, 46 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: apparently the a l A or the American Library Association 47 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: releases this annual list of the titles that were most 48 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: challenged or banned at libraries and schools, and that yar, 49 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: Captain Underpants actually beat out Fifty Shades of Gray for 50 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: the title, as well as books like Thirteen Reasons Why, 51 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: which you know some say glorified suicide. It also beat 52 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: out classics like Brave New World and To Kill a Mockingbird. 53 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: That said, I do have to say the book does 54 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: come with a warning on it that warns readers and 55 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: parents of readers from the outset. It's a sturgeon General's 56 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: warning and he reads some material in this book might 57 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:29,519 Speaker 1: be considered offensive by those who don't wear underwear. That's 58 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: a helpful warning. I mean, you can see how the 59 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: word underpants might set off some alarm bells for parents, 60 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: and it seems like it's going to be this rude 61 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: book instead of actually a very sweet one. But you know, 62 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: on the other hand, the word underpants is exactly why 63 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: kids get excited to read the book. I mean, the 64 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: only movie my parents manned me from watching was Ferris 65 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: Bueller's Day Off, which I know, you know, but I 66 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: still think it's weird. And obviously it's because my dad 67 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: went to college at like thirteen or something and then 68 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: failed out because he was working on this underground newspaper 69 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: and playing in a Rolling Stones cover band and entering 70 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: jitterbug contest apparently, but ovisually he was doing everything except 71 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: going to school. But my mom didn't want me to 72 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: get any ideas from the movie. So did you ever 73 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: actually get to see Ferris Bueler's Day Off? Yeah? I 74 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: saw it like the weekend after it came out on 75 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: VHS at my uncle's house. You know, it immediately became 76 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: my favorite movie. Yeah, and it is a great movie. 77 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: So I'm glad you finally got to see it, and 78 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: I like that. We've already talked a little bit about 79 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: Captain Underpant's one of my kids favorites, of course when 80 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: they first discover it. But let me read you a 81 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: few other children's books that have been banned that that 82 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: actually kind of surprised me. And I'm going to kick 83 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: it off with Winnie the Pooh, which oddly has been 84 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: banned in a lot of countries. So is this because 85 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: the piglet, Because I know Miss Peggy was banned in 86 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia for I guess for just being a pig um. 87 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: But actually, you know, before I let you go, I've 88 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: got this tangent about pigs. Did you see that Pepper 89 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: Pig was banned in China? Which is just so sad. 90 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: But I did see this. This was just last week, right, 91 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: and I didn't actually see why it was banned. So fairly, 92 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: the cartoon character has been associated with like laziness and 93 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: slackers and also gangsters for some reason, like people are 94 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: getting Pepper Pig tattoos, which makes no sense. But the 95 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: countries instead asking its citizen institune into the government created alternative. 96 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: It's called Little Pig Dodo. But I cut you off, 97 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: so tell me a little bit more about winning to Pooh. Well, 98 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: you were right with one of the guests is and 99 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: that that's that. Some Muslim nations have banned the book 100 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: because of Piglet, But you know, according to the book's 101 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: enthusiast site Bookster, it has this long history of being banned. 102 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: And when Winnie the Pooh first came out, some American 103 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: and Polish leaders were outraged because talking animals can, I guess, 104 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: be seen as an insult to God. But the more 105 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: interesting thing, and something I hadn't thought about, was that 106 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: the books are often banned in communist countries, and that's 107 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: for a different reason. It's because the animals are seen 108 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: as representing the seven deadly sins. So if you think 109 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: about it, who is a glutton al is too proud? 110 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: I guess you've got Piglet, who's envious and ors of court, 111 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: slothful Rabbit gets a little too angry or wrathful? And 112 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: who does that leave? I guess that leaves us with Tigger, 113 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: who is I don't know, bouncy? Is that one of 114 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: the seven deadly sent But the books are read as 115 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: trying to inspire religion, which is of course problematic in 116 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: communist nations, So I mean that makes sense. But what 117 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: are some of the other surprises you found? All right, well, 118 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: let's see the other ones that have on the list. 119 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: You've got Ferdinand the Bull that was banned for being 120 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: too Pacifists, and Gandhi and Franklin Roosevelt loved it, and 121 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: of course Hitler called it degenerate democratic propaganda. I mean, 122 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: I feel like those courts should be on the book jacket, right, Like, 123 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: if it's not part of Hitler's Children's book club, that 124 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: feels like it's a good thing. But that idea of 125 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: Hitler's children's book club, all right, Well, the one that 126 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: surprised me the most. And you'll remember this from reading 127 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: it to your kids as as like babies, even as 128 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: brown Bear, brown Bear, you remember this book, right, yeah, definitely. 129 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: Well that this was a rare case where a book 130 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: was banned by accident. Yeah, I mean, I was about 131 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: to say, it's hard to imagine it being banned for 132 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: introducing colors and animals to kids. Well, the story is 133 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: that someone on the state Board of Education in Texas 134 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: was doing their research and googled the author's name. His 135 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: name is Bill Martin, and confused him with a different 136 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: Bill Martin, who had written a book called Ethical Marxism. 137 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: So that's why there's not quite the juicy story behind it. 138 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: I was hoping they had been offended for some ridiculous reason, 139 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: but they're just so many interesting ones on this list. Also, 140 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: one of our favorite authors or kids authors, Shel Silverstein, 141 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: his book A Light in the Attic was banned in Wisconsin. 142 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: So this is confusing to me because I mean, it 143 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: would make sense to me if The Giving Tree was banned, 144 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: because you know, the hero of that book is so selfish, 145 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: but A Lightened the Attics just so good. Oh, no 146 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: kidding it. And and I you'll remember this poem when 147 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: you hear it. But this is the offending poem. And 148 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: and you can decide for yourself. It's called how not 149 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: to have to dry the dishes. It goes like this, 150 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: if you have to dry the dishes, such an awful, 151 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: boring chore. If you have to dry the dishes stead 152 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: of going to the store. If you have to dry 153 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: the dishes and you drop one on the floor, maybe 154 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: they won't let you dry the dishes anymore. So basically, 155 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: you know, parents were worried about kids breaking their china 156 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: I guess, or having kids manipulate their way out of 157 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: chores or something. It's just so weird that this was 158 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: banned for that. I mean, it's ridiculous, right, Like, don't 159 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: we want mischievous kids, like, not too mischievous, but you 160 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: want a little Zanian nous and creativity and the kind 161 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,599 Speaker 1: of kid who laughs at poems like that. Also, I 162 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: do think if you're gonna take things so literally, shouldn't 163 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: we be stopping kids from fables about like mice taking 164 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: thorns out of lions pause because you really shouldn't be 165 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: touching lions pause, Or from like watching things like Honey, 166 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: I shrunk the kids, because shrinking your kids isn't great parenting. 167 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,719 Speaker 1: You're right, it's really not a good idea if you're 168 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: a parent. I'm glad that we've learned that now that 169 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: we're both parents. But it feels like, you know, when 170 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: you look at the breakdown of the types of books 171 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: that have been banned, especially kids books that have been banned, 172 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: you can break them down in a couple of ways. 173 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: Some of the bands are about the type of kid 174 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: that you want to raise. Obviously, a good communist who's 175 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,359 Speaker 1: banning Winnie the Pooh is trying to protect future generations 176 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: from what they see as the shackles of religion, I guess. 177 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: And it's the same with Shelle Silverstein or Captain Underpants. 178 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: And you know, whether right or wrong, their parents who 179 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: want to raise a certain kind of good kid who's 180 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: never exposed to any rude ideas. But then there's another 181 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,079 Speaker 1: type of book that gets banned, and that's a little 182 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: bit more about these difficult conversations. So how do you mean, Well, 183 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: there was this interesting article in the Atlantic and it 184 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: was written by Paul Ringel, who's a history professor, and 185 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: this from back in two thousand and sixteen. But he 186 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: was taking about about fifty two percent of books that 187 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: were banned or challenged in the ten years prior to 188 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen were what you'd label as diverse content. 189 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: These are books like The Hate You Give or Wonder, 190 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: which you know about race, or religion in or gender, 191 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: sexual orientation, many cases, even disabilities. But you know, he 192 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: points out that this isn't a new issue. Parents have 193 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: always been wary of having difficult conversations with their kids. 194 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: In the eighteen hundreds, there was this magazine called Juvenile Miscellany, 195 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: which I guess was kind of like the highlights of 196 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: the Cricket magazine of its time, and it was filled 197 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: with stories for children, and it was distributed mostly in 198 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: New England. But you know, then started running these anti 199 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: slavery stories which really worked to humanize the slaves. And 200 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: this was in the eighteen thirties, and immediately the readership dropped. 201 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: Then the magazine folded about a year or so after that, 202 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: I think, and as he puts it quote, the outcome 203 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: had a chilling effect on other publications. Everyone was scared 204 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: of talking about issues of slavery, even though this audience 205 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: is actually in the Northeast. But his point was that 206 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: the publishers have always had this divide. You know, do 207 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: you write to please your kid readers while encouraging them 208 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: to think about the larger world, or do you please 209 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: the parent and stay in this comfortable, safe zone. And 210 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: then the case of something like shel Silverstein, isn't having 211 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: a conversation about how to read you know that you 212 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: don't just trust something because it's imprinted. It seems like 213 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: that's a good conversation to have pretty early in a 214 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: kid's life. Yeah, it's a good question, and I've actually 215 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: heard a similar argument that the reason it took so 216 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: long for books like Corduroy or Ezra Jack's Keith Snowy 217 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: Day to break the color barrier and children's books with 218 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: African American heroes was that publishers had actually been hesitant 219 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: to publish anything that made parents feel uncomfortable. But during 220 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: the era of civil rights, those worries were breaking down. Yeah, 221 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: and actually, while we're talking about race, let's let's take 222 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: a second to talk about huck Fen, which, of course 223 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: you know we've known, has been on the band Books 224 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: list over the years. And it's funny how this book 225 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: caused controversy from the very beginning, and for very different reasons. 226 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: At first, Mark Twain's classic was banned for being too 227 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: progressive and humanizing slaves, and it was also banned for 228 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: having low class language and conquered Massachusetts librarians called it 229 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: trash and said it was suitable only for the slums. 230 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 1: Then people in Missouri thought it showed them as backwards 231 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 1: talking as well, and then, you know, you fast forward 232 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: later in the fifties, then Double A CP raised the 233 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 1: issue of how many times raciel slurs are used in 234 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: the book, and eventually it got banned for being racist. 235 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: So I love The Adventures of Huckleberry Fin. I I 236 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: think when I read it, I was just so taken 237 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: with this idea of um, I don't know, like an 238 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: unreliable and mischievous storyteller and who just pulls you through 239 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: an adventure. And it was just so funny and unpretentious 240 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: to me and totally different from everything else I'd read. 241 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: But I just saw this thing in g Q. They 242 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: put out a list of twenty one books you don't 243 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: have to read, and it's kind of a read this 244 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: not that for classic literature. And Katie Weaver, who we 245 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,719 Speaker 1: love from our Mental flast days and is one of 246 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: my favorite writers. She she made a really smart point, 247 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: she writes, quote, the worst crime committed by the Adventures 248 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: of Huckleberry Finn is that it makes first time Twin 249 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: readers think that Twain wrote tedious meandering stories. He did, 250 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: as is evidenced by this his book of Tedious Meandering Stories, 251 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: but he also wrote a lot of richly entertaining meandering 252 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: stories that are not constrained by the ham fisted narration 253 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: of a fictional backcountry child or suffused with his sweaty 254 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: imitation of a slave talking. Alternatively, read Frederick Douglas's firsthand 255 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: to Count of Slavery, which is equal parts shocking and heartbreaking. 256 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: While Jim, the affable slave friend of Huck Finn explains 257 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: things like lawsy as mighty glad, Frederick Douglas makes observations 258 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: like I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ. 259 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: I therefore hate the corrupt, slaveholding women, whipping cradle plundering, 260 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: partial and hypocritical Christianity of this land. I mean I 261 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: condenced to writing some And she goes on to talk 262 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: about how amazing the plot of narrative of the life 263 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: of Frederick Douglas is. But uh, it's a smart point 264 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: that we too often tell this like slave with the 265 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: smile type story to kids, and our cultural reference point 266 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: for a slave who's escaped is Jim from Huck Finn 267 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: instead of this unbelievably eloquent and really powerful Frederick Douglas. Yeah, 268 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: that's a great point, and I do love Katie's writing. 269 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: That's a that's a really really powerful quote from that. 270 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 1: But I actually want to talk about an equally important 271 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: book and one that might be seen as as powerful 272 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: and that not surprisingly Mango it's Where's Waldo? So, but 273 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: before we chat about why you can't read it in prisons, 274 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. Welcome back to Part Time Genius, 275 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: where we're talking banned books and specifically Where's Waldo? Now. Well, 276 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: I do have to confess. One of my favorite little 277 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: stories from my friend Jake Rosson is on the Where's 278 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: Waldo topless beach scandal? And every time I see a 279 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: Where's Waldo book, I think about that. But I don't 280 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: think this is what you were talking about when you 281 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: said Waldo was banned to prisons. Now that the Walldo 282 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: that got banned at prisons is Where's Waldo's Santa Spectacular? 283 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: But tell me what is this topless candal? It's really solicious. 284 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: So apparently it started when some kid in East Hampton, 285 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: New York got a Waldo book out of the library 286 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: and found that one of the tiny women in this 287 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: big beach scene was topless. She's a sunbathing on her 288 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: stomach and lying on top of her top and this 289 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: kid with an ice cream cone kind of touches the 290 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: cone to her back, so in the pic she's captured 291 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: arching her back up in shock. Yeah, I can see 292 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: why parents might have been a little concerned by this, 293 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: But I'm curious to know how much breast is little 294 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: Johnny seeing here. Well, from my initial reading, I thought 295 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: it was just a little side book, but apparently there's 296 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: definitely some nipple in there as well. And according to 297 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: Jake's reporting, the kid was quote as quote being disgusted 298 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: and upon finding not Waldo, he kind of immediately ran 299 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: to tell his mom, but not before showing it to 300 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: his younger brother first. But anyway, the mom got the 301 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: book banned from American libraries and bookstores, which is reasonable, 302 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: I guess, but I'd forgotten this. The books are actually 303 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: from Europe. Oh that's right, He's what's he called here? Is? 304 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: Is Where's Wally? Right exactly? And you know, nudity and 305 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: topless sunbathing isn't exactly controversial there. So while Where's Waldo 306 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: was on the top of this books list throughout the nineties, 307 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: right next to Howard Stern's private Parts, Where's Wally actually 308 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: got to keep hanging out with the topless woman on 309 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: the beach, And of course it wasn't long before she 310 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: covered up for American audiences. But tell me about this 311 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: Santa Spectacular, because I'm super curious. Well, I'm glad you 312 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: took us on that on that tangent. I never thought 313 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: the word side boob would be said on Part Time Genius, 314 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: but we managed to to pull that off. But when 315 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: you talk about this one, actually the band in Texas 316 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: prisons was based less about a war on sand and 317 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: it was more about the fact that the book came 318 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: with stickers. Apparently, stickers are banned in prison for a 319 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: number of reasons. First, you can you can make band 320 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: aids with them, which is a problem because jails want 321 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: to know about injuries, both major and minor, that are 322 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: going on there. And also, stickers are an easy way 323 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: to cover her up a camera or a glass, and 324 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: that might keep the guards from looking at you, So 325 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: it makes sense for the prison to ban them. But 326 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: the author was partially pointing out the absurdity of the 327 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: fact that books like Mine comp and The Holy Book 328 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: of Adolf Hitler they're considered acceptable literature, while being seen 329 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: with a copy of Where's Waldo Santa Spectacular will land 330 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: you in solitary. I love that you could be a 331 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: badass in jail for just smuggling in a copy of 332 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: Wear's Waldo? And speaking of smuggling. Uh, I know, we 333 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about my favorite story of all time, 334 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: how Ulysses by James Joyce got to the US, and 335 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,479 Speaker 1: this involves one of our favorite publishers, Bennett Surf. That's right. 336 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,360 Speaker 1: So Bennett Surf is the publisher who founded Random House, 337 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: and we've talked about him a couple of times. He's, 338 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: of course the guy who bet Dr Seuss that he 339 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: couldn't write a book with less than fifty words. We 340 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: mentioned that before and that the book ended up being 341 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: Green Eggs in Ham, But actually before we talked about 342 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: this anymore, can I tell you my favorite Bennett Surf fact? Definitely? 343 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: So Bennett Surf loved writers, and he liked hanging out 344 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: with him and talking to them about literature, and he 345 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 1: actually liked making edits. He once pleaded with iron Ran 346 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: to cut the John Galt speech, and I love her 347 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: response to this, She said, would you cut the Bible? 348 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: Which is just kind of like peaque iron Ran. But 349 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: my favorite fact is that he loved Gertrude Stein and 350 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: he would publish her books just a kind of be 351 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: in her orbit. And Surf enjoyed big personalities and challenging authors. 352 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: And he even admitted in his introduction to her book. 353 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: The book was called Geographical History of America or the 354 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: Relation of Human Nature to the Human Mind. It's quite 355 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: a long title, but this is how his intro to 356 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: the book starts. I must admit, frankly, I do not 357 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: know what ms Stein is talking about. I do not 358 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: even understand the title. That's ridiculous. Apparently she was fine 359 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: with it, and they had this relationship that was pretty playful, 360 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: and when he asked her to explain the line arose 361 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 1: as a rose as a rose, she just responded, Bennett, 362 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: you're a very nice boy, but you're rather stupid it 363 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: And I just always kind of was amused by that quote. 364 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: But let's talk about the Ultimate band book, which is 365 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: of course Ulysses definitely. So this telling is based on 366 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: a story I worked on in Mental Flass with my 367 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: pal Lucas Adams. But I'm going to try to keep 368 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: it as quick as I can. So Surf, as you 369 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: listeners have probably figured out by now, is this charismatic 370 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: and savvy and really energized character and he's trying to 371 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: make a name for his new company, Random House, and 372 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: Ulysses has been around for a while, but it gained 373 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: a reputation for being obscene. A Harvard professor at the 374 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: time it claimed that the work showed that Joyce was 375 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: quote in an advanced stage of psychic disintegration, and places 376 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: like Quarterly Reviewed talked about the book like it was 377 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: trying to destroy Western civilization. And of course all of 378 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: this baffled James Joyce right like he was a little 379 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: irritated that he'd written this masterpiece and poured all his 380 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: effort into this and he just couldn't make any money 381 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: off it. When it was being serialized in the US, 382 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: the courts banned it on similar obscenity grounds. The New 383 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: York Society for the Suppression of Vice had actually set 384 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: up this court case against it, and it made it 385 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,479 Speaker 1: so that just owning a copy of the book was 386 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: this arrestable offense. I mean, this is crazy, right for Joyce, 387 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: it was just this book that he couldn't get anyone 388 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 1: to take on anyway. In the famous indie bookstore in 389 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: Paris called the Shakespeare Publishing Company starts publishing the book 390 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: in this light blue cover, and to be seen with 391 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: these books was kind of a thing for the literarty. 392 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: So if you wanted to read the book in the US, 393 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: you'd have to go there or sneak a copy over. 394 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: And it was kind of fun and illegal. But if 395 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,239 Speaker 1: the Postal Service got their hands on the book, they 396 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: were under strict orders to burn it immediately, and you 397 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: could actually get arrested for owning a copy if you 398 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: really flaunted it. So it progresses like this for a while, 399 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: and then about ten years later two and this is 400 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: when Surf is really launching Random House. He's hanging out 401 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: with this brilliant lawyer friend of his name, Morris Ernst, 402 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: and Ernest is talking about how disgusted he is with 403 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,719 Speaker 1: censorship and the censorship of this book in particular, and 404 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: Surf immediately hatches a plan, really smells opportunity for his 405 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: little company. So he thinks, what if he can get 406 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: Earnest to represent him in court. He paid the court fees, 407 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: and if Earnest wins, he gets a cut of the royalties. 408 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: So he proposes this to Earns and Earns degrees and 409 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: now he just has to get James Joyce on for 410 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: so he writes this letter on why Joyce should take 411 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: a chance on him, and of course Joyce is delighted 412 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: because he hasn't made a cent off this thing in 413 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: England or in the US. And just one little detail 414 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: here that's just so funny to be when Surf meets 415 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: Joyce in Paris. Joyce shows up in a sling and 416 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: foot and head bandages and also this eye patch over 417 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: his left eye, and Surf didn't know what was going on. 418 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: He actually didn't realize that Joyce always wore the eye patch, 419 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: but the rest of the injuries were fresh. And apparently 420 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: when Joyce had heard the news about this Masterfiees getting 421 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: published or possibly published in America, he was so giddy 422 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: that he accidentally walked right into traffic and got slammed 423 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: by a taxi cab. Anyway, he still somehow makes it 424 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: to Paris, where Surf makes a deal with him. He's 425 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: going to give him dollars and you know, royalties whether 426 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: or not they win the court kids son. Joyce is overjoyed. 427 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: So Surf has this Ace lawyer and he is the 428 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: blessing of the novelist. But here's where things get absolutely bonkers. 429 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: So Surf now has to do the worst and most 430 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: important smuggling job in the world. He and Earnest want 431 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: to bring the book back to the US, but they 432 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: need to be caught with it so that they can 433 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: start a court case over it. And so this is 434 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: unbelievably planned out like the book World's Oceans eleven. First, 435 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,959 Speaker 1: Surf and Earnest look for a favorable judge, someone with 436 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: an artsy bent, who you know, might be in favor 437 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: of the arts and would rule and favor of the arts. 438 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,479 Speaker 1: They need an intellectual and they find it in this 439 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: judge named John M. Woolsley. And then they have to 440 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: locate the specific port to get caught at so that 441 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: they can get that judge. So somehow they figured that out, 442 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: but it turns out he's on vacation, so they actually 443 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: have to delay till he's back. But then they don't 444 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 1: just want to give him a book, right, They want 445 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 1: to stack the deck a little. So they take a 446 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: copy of this light blue book from Paris and they 447 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: start pasting in as much critical praise in the book 448 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: as possible. Inside the covers. They actually attached praise from 449 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: Ezra Pound and Ford madox Ford and all these other 450 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: giants of literature and critics who loved the book. And 451 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 1: as Surf put it, by the time we were finished 452 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: the covers were bulging, and now all they have to 453 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: do is find a terrible smuggler and pay him to 454 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: get caught with the book at customs, which sounds easy, 455 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: but here's where it gets hilarious. So the smuggler has 456 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: this book in his suitcase. He's getting off of the 457 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: right port, but it's so hot and there's so many 458 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: people on this summer day at customs that the officers 459 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: are just waving people through. And this was not the plan. 460 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: This guy had been paid explicitly to get caught, and 461 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: if he goes through customs, his whole journey to Paris 462 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 1: and back would have been for not so he starts 463 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: making a fuss. He tells the inspector, I insist you 464 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: opened the bag and search it, and the officer is 465 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: just like, it's too hot, and so the smuggler starts confessing. 466 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: He says there's something in there that's contraband, and I 467 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: insist that it be searched. So they just keep bickering, 468 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: and the officer finally does it and finds this copy 469 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: of Ulysses and he sort of just shrugs him through. 470 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: And then the smugglers as I demand that you sees 471 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 1: this book. And while the officers telling him, look, it's 472 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: a hundred degrees in here, and I'm saying you can 473 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: just go through the smugglers, going on about what the 474 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: officers duties are, and what the officers duties are as 475 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: an American official and laws, and finally he just keeps 476 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: ranting for such a long time that the manager comes over, 477 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: and of course, you know, the supervising official also just 478 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 1: wants to get this over with. He wants the irritating 479 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: passengers to go through, but uh, he keeps complaining. And 480 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: finally they realized this dude isn't going to stop, and 481 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: then they impound the book. And the case was pretty breezy, right, 482 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: very it took just two days. And you know this 483 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: Judge Wolseley read the book and all the criticism, and 484 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: then he actually consulted two of his friends were also 485 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: fans of literature, and while he said the book wasn't 486 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: easy to read or understand, he wrote, quote, each word 487 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: of the book contributes like a bit of a mosaic 488 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: to the detail of the picture which Joyce is seeking 489 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 1: to construct for his readers. He also called Ulysses a 490 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: sincere and serious attempt to devise a new literary method 491 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: for the observation description of mankind. And you know, in 492 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: removing this ban on the book, Welsley's point was that 493 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: the average reader should be given access to books like 494 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: ULYSSI is because it's only the normal person that the 495 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: law is concerned with, which is pretty important, right. I mean, 496 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 1: it's often the squeaky wheels on these extreme ends who 497 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: get the judgments and the laws passed. But Wolsey was 498 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: designing for the you know, I guess the normal person. Yeah, 499 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing how fast Surf also jumped on 500 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: this decision, like he had the printing press ready to 501 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: kick on ten minutes after they got the verdict. And 502 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: the case actually got appealed, but it one two to 503 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,959 Speaker 1: one in circuit court. And Joyce, for his part, was 504 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: super excited. You know, the fact that this case one 505 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: in America meant that the floodgates would open, and he 506 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: knew England wasn't gonna be far behind. In fact, Surf 507 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: actually said that Joyce was so excited he thought he 508 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: might emigrate to the US, but then it turned out 509 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: he was too afraid to get on a boat to 510 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: make the journey. And as for the case, itself. It 511 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: actually ended up being this landmark judgment that was cited 512 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: in future obscenity cases, including Tropic of Cancer. I mean, 513 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: that's funny because I read this New Yorker story about 514 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: Walter Minton. He was the publisher at Putnam and he 515 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: was responsible for publishing Tropic of Cancer as well as 516 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: Lolita and quite a few other important books. And when 517 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: he was about to publish Norman Mailer, Bennett Serf actually 518 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: called him up and warned him not to publish the 519 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: books because he was afraid the censors would come down 520 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: on everybody as a result. And of course Minton, who 521 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: was in the same mold as Serf, actually took out 522 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: an ad for the book that said the book six 523 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: publishers refused to bring you. It's kind of funny how 524 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: cyclical this stuff is. But anyway, we we've got a 525 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: few more stories to get through. But before we do that, 526 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. Welcome back to Part time Genius. 527 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: So Mango, one of the things I've been thinking about 528 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: a lot of how would you ban a book you 529 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: actually just give it so much more attention. Yeah, we 530 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: we did this story a while back on this book. 531 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: It was called the Minute Book of the General Council 532 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 1: of the International Working Men's Association. And you know that's 533 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: a long title, but it was actually supposedly seen as 534 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: this foundational document of Karl Marx in this group. It 535 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: ended up somehow getting locked up in this British library, 536 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: was protected by this very strict British librarian for years, 537 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: and people just kept obsessing over how important this book 538 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: was and they couldn't get their hands on it. And 539 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: you know, they thought it would actually show you how 540 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: to start revolutions and how to turn capitalists into socialists. 541 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 1: And instead, when it was finally revealed to the public 542 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: what was in it, it just ended up being this 543 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: like little balanced book of accounts. It was a ledger 544 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: for the club essentially, and it was totally anti climatic. 545 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: But when the USS are finally published it, you know, 546 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: no one paid attention to it. I mean, it's interesting 547 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: to hear what's been happening in Hong Kong. I don't 548 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: know if you heard this episode about this from from 549 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: The Daily, one of our our favorite podcast. I mean, 550 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,239 Speaker 1: I love The Daily, but I actually haven't heard this one. Well, 551 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: there's this publisher there that have been publishing books on 552 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: the sex lives and seedy gossip about ministers, and it 553 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: was all nonfiction, I believe, And he had some cover 554 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: by operating from Hong Kong, which has of course been 555 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: part of China since nine but it has that British 556 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: legacy there, so just like Surf, he'd figured out which 557 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: ports were important, though he was actually smuggling and was 558 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: getting like n of the books through. But when he 559 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: published a book about the President's extra marital affairs, he 560 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: and his colleagues were kidnapped in the mainland for months 561 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: I think it was. And it's a crazy story and 562 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: eventually he gets out and starts operating again from Taiwan. 563 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: But it's just so good and it's also an amazing 564 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,719 Speaker 1: reminder of how good we have it here. But anyway, 565 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: before we close out the show, I wanted to tell 566 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: you one quick story about Judy Bloom. So, I mean, 567 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: Judic Boom is my favorite. Like, I actually just got 568 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: my son hooked onto Super Funch series, partially because he 569 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: was missing New York City and those books actually talk 570 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: a lot about the city and moving and also what 571 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: it's like to have a ridiculous and irritating younger sibling. 572 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: But are you going to talk about Are you there, God, 573 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: it's me, Margaret. Well, that's definitely part of it. So 574 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: so Judy Balloons had a few books that have been banned, 575 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: but that's probably her most famous because it talks about 576 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: puberty and getting your period. And I read this story 577 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: in the Times where she talked about why she thought 578 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: the book was banned, and she said, quote, I think 579 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: the feeling was if my child doesn't read this, my 580 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: child won't know about it, and it's not going to 581 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: happen to my child. And I used to get up 582 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: there on stage and say, I have news for you. 583 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: Your kids are going through puberty, whether you like it 584 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: or not, So why not help them. It's going to 585 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: happen whether they read my books or no books or 586 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: someone else's books. Man, I love that. Again, it does 587 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: go back to that difficult conversation, those things you try 588 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: to avoid with your kids. Yeah. But the funniest part 589 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: is that when people come to visit the bookstore she 590 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: founded in Key West, it's called Books and Books, she 591 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: takes great pleasure in pushing banned books onto them. As 592 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: she told The Times, it's my new thrill as a 593 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: bookseller to put that right book into the hands of 594 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: someone who appreciates what it's saying, which is what she 595 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: said after she sold a couple of book about two 596 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: male penguins who hatch and raise a baby bird together 597 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: and it's called and Tango Makes Three. I like that 598 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: She's still out there fighting for ben books. What a superhero. 599 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: Well why don't we end on that note. But before 600 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: we go, let's get in the fact off and instead 601 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: of just doing it on banned books, how about we 602 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: opened it up to all banned things. All right, let's 603 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: do it. Well. I think we all remember that George H. W. 604 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: Bush hated broccoli, But what I've forgotten was the statement 605 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: he made about banning broccoli from being served on Air 606 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: Force one. And here's what it said. I don't like 607 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: broccoli and I haven't liked it since I was a 608 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: little kid and my mother made me eat it. And 609 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: I'm president of the United States and I'm not going 610 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: to eat broccoli anymore. So apparently he just used to 611 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: shovel down junk food. I saw this in the Times, 612 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: but they described the food he ate as everything that 613 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: quote can be procured at baseball games, fast food joints, 614 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: or seven eleven beef, jerky, nacho's, tacos, chili ree, fried beans, hamburgers, 615 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: hot dogs, barbecue, ribs, candy, popcorn, ice cream, and cake. Actually, 616 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: that makes me hungry just reading that quote. But when 617 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: Peggy Noonan saw him eat, she described it like an 618 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: embarrassed teenage boy. And on the few occasions he tried 619 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: to eat something healthy like yogurt, he'd quote spice it 620 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: up with butter fingers. That's pretty amazing. And I had 621 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: no idea he was such a poor eater. Slash also 622 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: my eating soulmate. But exactly, I actually remember when he 623 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: said that thing about proccly, and I feel like his 624 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: poll numbers in my fourth grade class just shut up immediately. 625 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,239 Speaker 1: So here's one about divis and butt head. Basically, they 626 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: got banned early in the show from shouting fire because 627 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: people thought the cartoon was leading to arson cases, so 628 00:31:55,560 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: to avoid the sensors, they would shout words like fryer instead. Gosh, 629 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: that's so ridiculous. All right, Well, according to the New 630 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: York Or, China has a banned on time traveling books 631 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: and movies because it quote disrespects history. Also, if you're 632 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: in Beijing, you should be where there's a height limit 633 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: on dogs, so keep your pets under fourteen inches. Also, 634 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: if you don't have permission from China's government, you can't 635 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: reincarnate their mango. Just keep that in mind. Got it. 636 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: So no hot tub time machine, no traveling with a 637 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: great day, and and no reincarnation. I actually feel it's 638 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: like the hot tub time machine part that's the hardest 639 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: for me. So here's what I like. When the Soviet 640 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: Union was still a thing, comedians had to run all 641 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: their jokes by the Department of Jokes. It was actually 642 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: called the Humor Department of the Censorship Apparatus of the 643 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: Soviet Ministry of Culture, and they would cut any joke 644 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: you said about politics, religion, or sex, which meant that 645 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: most routines were based on animal jokes. I just love 646 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: the idea that if you're really trying to carve out 647 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: like a career as a comedian, you'd have to have 648 00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: like a tight five on hamsters. All right. Well, here's 649 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: something else that I had forgotten. The n C double 650 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: A at one point banned the slam dunk basically because 651 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: they wanted to keep one player from scoring. It was 652 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: actually called the lu al cinder rule, and it was 653 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: introduced just to keep Kareem Abdul Jabbar from scoring. There's 654 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: an article in Cracked about this, and as they put it, 655 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,479 Speaker 1: n C double A officials claimed that they were simply 656 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: banning a non skillful shot, while Kareem saw it as 657 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: a racist attempt to stop black people from invading the game. 658 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: And it's Crack rightly points out that might sound far 659 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: fetched until you remember that this was a mere three 660 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: years after the Civil Rights Act. Um, and that's interesting. 661 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: And you know, I can't beat a Kareem fact. I. 662 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: I think you have to take home today's trophy. I 663 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: think we probably all understand that you really cannot be 664 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: a Kareem abdul Jabbar fact. So thanks so much. I 665 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: kind of knew that was gonna be my winner today. 666 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: But I'm sure there are plenty of great facts about 667 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: banned books or anything that was banned in general, and 668 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: we would love to hear those from you. As always, 669 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: you can email us part time genius at how stuff 670 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: Works dot com or calls on our seven fact hotline 671 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: one eight four four pt Genius. We also love to 672 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: hear from you on Facebook or Twitter. But thanks so 673 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:23,720 Speaker 1: much for listening. Thanks again for listening part time. Genius 674 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: is a production of how stuff works, and wouldn't be 675 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: possible without several brilliant people who do the important things 676 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: we couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan McNeil does the 677 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme song and does 678 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: the mixy mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland does the exact 679 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: producer thing. Gay blues Yer is our lead researcher, with 680 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: support from the Research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown 681 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: and Lucas Adams and Eve Jeff Cook gets the show 682 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: to your ears. Good job, Eves. If you like what 683 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,439 Speaker 1: you heard, we hope you'll subscribe, And if you really 684 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: really like what you've heard, maybe you could leave a 685 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: good review for us. Do we do? We forget Jason? 686 00:34:53,920 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: Jason who the DESI