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Speaker 1: Talking to Death is released every Friday and brought to

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Speaker 1: you absolutely free. But if you want ad free listening

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Speaker 1: and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus dot

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Speaker 1: com or on Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Talking to Death is a production of tenderfoot TV and

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Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back. I am not payin Lindsay, but Dylan Harrington,

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Speaker 3: producer of the show, Pain and Mike are actually both

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Speaker 3: traveling today capturing some new interviews with some really exciting guests.

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Speaker 3: More on that later. So yeah, let's just jump right

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Speaker 3: into the episode. Today's guest is George Cheaty. He's a

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Speaker 3: journalist and political commentator here in Atlanta. He also writes

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Speaker 3: for a lot of other publications nationally. We were introduced

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Speaker 3: to George through our podcast partner, iHeart Podcasts. He has

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Speaker 3: a show with iHeart called King Slime The Prosecution of

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Speaker 3: Young Thug and YSL. For the last year or so,

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Speaker 3: he's been covering the Young Thug YSL trial. If you've

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Speaker 3: been living under a rock and have no idea who

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Speaker 3: Young Thug is, he's a hip hop artist rapper. About

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Speaker 3: a year ago, Young Thug was arrested in Atlanta for

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Speaker 3: a slew of crimes, including racketeering which he's facing a

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Speaker 3: RICO charge for drug possession, weapons charges, attempted murder, and

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Speaker 3: street gang activity. The trial involves twenty seven members of

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Speaker 3: the YSL gang. He does a great job breaking down

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Speaker 3: everything that's going on with the Young Thug trial. If

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Speaker 3: you're into hip hop, if you're into criminal trial breakdowns,

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Speaker 3: he's your guy. Here's an interesting tidbit for you. Before

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Speaker 3: Payne and I worked in podcast, we actually both worked

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Speaker 3: in music videos here in Atlanta, and both of us

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Speaker 3: independently made music videos for Young Thug, So we both

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Speaker 3: have sort of a personal connection to him and to

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Speaker 3: this story and to seeing how this trial unfolds. So

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Speaker 3: even if you haven't heard of it, or you're very

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Speaker 3: into it and following it every day, this conversation with

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Speaker 3: George is going to be really fascinating. He knows everything

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Speaker 3: about it. He's able to break it down and make

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Speaker 3: it all make sense. George also talks about a lot

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Speaker 3: of other things on top of the case, things that

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Speaker 3: are related like crime, gang violence, and homelessness and poverty issues,

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Speaker 3: and he's just he's really an authority figure on all

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Speaker 3: of these things. So even if those things interest you,

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Speaker 3: this conversation's worth listening to. But anyway, yeah, that's enough

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Speaker 3: for me. Why don't we just jump right into the interview.

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Speaker 3: Today's guest is George Cheaty, four.

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Speaker 2: Score and seven years ago our forefathers brought forth upon it.

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Speaker 2: You have a good podcast voice? Yeah I could. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was radioish for a little while and now I

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Speaker 2: feel better.

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Speaker 4: Okay, what do you mean?

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Speaker 2: In college? It's like campus radio.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: The irony is that my partner did really, really well.

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Speaker 2: I was at UMass doing campus radio with Audie Cornish,

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Speaker 2: formerly of NPR, like Things Considered from like ten twelve.

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Speaker 2: She went off to go do NPR and I went

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Speaker 2: off to go write about tech, and she knew how

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Speaker 2: to do it. Damn.

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Speaker 4: Did you like the way it felt doing the radio

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Speaker 4: stuff back then?

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Speaker 2: It was interesting. It's much more like podcasting in that,

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Speaker 2: like you kind of have to make it up as

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Speaker 2: you go. Yeah, you're like you have tremendous freedom, Like

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Speaker 2: what am I gonna do? What am I gonna talk about?

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Speaker 2: What are we what are we reporting on right now?

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Speaker 2: All right, let's go figure that out. Like how do

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Speaker 2: we get in front of an audience. Okay, let's go

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Speaker 2: figure that out, Like what does our recruiting look like? Like,

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Speaker 2: how are we staffing this thing? Like what's our equipment? Like,

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Speaker 2: just go figure everything out. Like we're pretty much starting

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Speaker 2: from scratch, which is like every damn podcaster in the

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Speaker 2: world right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, that's like that's a through line with almost

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Speaker 1: all podcasts, right, We're just figuring it out at that part.

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Speaker 4: I like, of course, so you're not.

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Speaker 1: Like not getting paid, right, the lack of a huge paycheck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, lack of a huge paycheck. That's what got me

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Speaker 2: out of the radio stuff. Was like, uh huh, I

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Speaker 2: just I don't see myself making real money at this

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Speaker 2: and go find a magazine. And that didn't work. I

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Speaker 2: did for a little while, and then I got dumb.

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Speaker 4: So what do you mass What would you study?

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Speaker 2: I studied journalism.

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Speaker 4: Did you always want to do that?

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Speaker 2: Now? I started off as a microbiology major? So no,

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Speaker 2: I I My life is a fucking train wreck too,

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Speaker 2: So I'm not good. Are we a sweary podcast?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: Well, thank goodness, yeah, because I'm from Massachusetts. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: some of these Dennis fucking Leary thing's gonna come here.

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Speaker 2: You this, by the way, is not an affectation, Like

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Speaker 2: I sound like Albert Brooks because that's how I grew up.

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Speaker 2: Like this is just who I am.

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Speaker 1: You're not putting it on.

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Speaker 2: No, Like I can't code switch. If I could, I'd

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Speaker 2: like my life would be different. The uh Like I

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Speaker 2: was the one black kid in school, like you know that,

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Speaker 2: Like I rememb where.

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Speaker 4: You went from.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Kansall, Georgia suburbs and there was

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Speaker 1: like two black kids in my class.

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Speaker 2: Yeah I'm that kid. Okay, what do you mass the

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Speaker 2: he was going to go be a doctor? Like failed

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Speaker 2: out after a year?

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Speaker 4: Really yeah, I mean i'd imagine it's hard.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it was more than that. I was just

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Speaker 2: like depressed and chasing girls and.

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Speaker 4: Those are conflicting things. We try to be a doctor, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I joined the army and I was a soldier

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Speaker 2: for years, spent two years in the reserves and five

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Speaker 2: on active duty, and got out and went back to school.

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Speaker 2: And when I but I I was an army journalist.

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Speaker 1: Oh really?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay what was that like? Then? A good place

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Speaker 2: to learn how to be a journalist because it's really

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Speaker 2: hard to.

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Speaker 1: Fire you really, why is that.

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Speaker 2: Because one, it's expensive to train the next guy. Okay,

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Speaker 2: you actually have to go and train.

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Speaker 1: A soldier journalists, Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 2: So you've got to send like basic training and then

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Speaker 2: journalism school in the army and you know whatever. Like

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Speaker 2: it was a good place to sort of experiment to

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Speaker 2: find your voice. Like, and I'm making that much more

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Speaker 2: romantic than it was. I spent most of my time

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Speaker 2: in the Army. I spent a year studying Arabic at

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Speaker 2: the Defense Language Institute, and then four in the twenty

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Speaker 2: fifth Infantry Division in Hawaii, writing about infantry operations in

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Speaker 2: the jungle and with the exception of a short peacekeeping

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Speaker 2: stint in Egypt, I mean, nobody's shot at me. It

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Speaker 2: was ninety fourth or ninety nine. It was a long

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Speaker 2: time ago. But I got out and I'm like, all right,

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Speaker 2: I guess I'm a journalist.

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Speaker 4: So what is an army journalist cover? Forgive me? But like,

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Speaker 4: if you're so, you work for the army yep, and

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Speaker 4: so are you?

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Speaker 2: Well, it depends on what you're exactly asked to do, like,

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Speaker 2: because sometimes you're a glorified pr guy, right, Sometimes you're

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Speaker 2: writing for stars and stripes, which is straight journalism. And hey,

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Speaker 2: people are getting shot, go right about it, like take

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Speaker 2: pictures on the battlefield, like transmit correspondence back, Like.

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Speaker 4: Are they ever like, hey, we don't want that shit

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Speaker 4: out there.

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Speaker 2: All the time. In fact, that was kind of my

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Speaker 2: Like that was I get thrown out of a lot

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Speaker 2: of places, like that's been the story of my life.

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Speaker 2: There was a story I was writing just before I

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Speaker 2: got out. So fun fact, it's free breaston plant surgery

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Speaker 2: and the army is free.

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Speaker 4: What do you mean free?

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Speaker 2: I mean if you're a soldier and you want breast

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Speaker 2: and plant surgery, like there are plastic surgeons who will

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Speaker 2: do that for free.

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Speaker 4: Where did the free breast I.

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Speaker 2: Plants come from? So you have to buy the actual implants.

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Speaker 2: But because they wanted they like, they wanted their plastic

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Speaker 2: surgeons to keep their skills up because yours, it's war.

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Speaker 2: People get parts blown off of them, So your surgeons

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Speaker 2: need to be doing surgeries. So here's a surgery that's elective,

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Speaker 2: but go for it, like, let's practice.

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Speaker 4: You're still cutting in, you're still at the real surgery.

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Speaker 2: So the scandal here was that the senior officers at

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Speaker 2: base were putting their wives on that list and bumping

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Speaker 2: and junior enlisted soldiers off the or down the list

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Speaker 2: so that their wives would get the surgery. And I

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Speaker 2: was writing about.

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Speaker 1: That, that's a cool story, that's a great sty I

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Speaker 1: did not see that that's a great story. That's a

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Speaker 1: great story.

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Speaker 2: And I got thrown out a triple or Army medical

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Speaker 2: center and the commanding general send a letter to my

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Speaker 2: commanding general saying, don't let this guy back on my

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Speaker 2: base unless he's shot. Wow, Like the uh, because they's

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Speaker 2: like I'm messing with their doctors and like but that, Like,

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Speaker 2: journalism is about writing about something that somebody else does

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Speaker 2: not want anybody to know. Everything else is public relations.

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Speaker 2: Like and that is the attitude that a good journalist

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Speaker 2: is looking at no matter where they are or they're

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Speaker 2: not a damn journalist.

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Speaker 4: Well what is a journalist in twenty twenty four?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's just it, Like I think they are. Like

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Speaker 2: part of it is being a natural human being who's

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Speaker 2: got two eyes, who can put them on something and

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Speaker 2: say this is real. Now that's bullshit, somebody made that up. No,

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Speaker 2: that's ai Like that's just.

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Speaker 4: All being to discern those things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like.

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Speaker 1: Being a journalist involved being able to have your own

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Speaker 1: sort of bullshit meter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And a lot of that has to do

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Speaker 2: with establishing a professional and personal reputation for probity. Like

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Speaker 2: anybody could say they're a journalist, but if you don't

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Speaker 2: have a bunch of time and the organizational or whatever

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Speaker 2: to say, yeah, I'm a journalist, and here is my

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Speaker 2: body of work that you could check against other stuff

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Speaker 2: to go, okay, well that was right, that was right,

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Speaker 2: that was right, that was right. Okay, so you're not

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Speaker 2: full of shit.

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Speaker 1: Right, Like you've got it right enough times to have

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Speaker 1: built a rapport that yeah.

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Speaker 2: More than a report, a record, a record, because somebody

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Speaker 2: else could come along and say, and this happens all

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Speaker 2: the time, like some scammy bullshit website that's that's existed

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Speaker 2: for six months, that was put together by a public

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Speaker 2: relations firm or somebody's political campaign that exists to fuck

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Speaker 2: with someone. Yes, add like a real journalist will see

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Speaker 2: that and go that's not.

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Speaker 4: Real, right, you're not taking the bait there, Yeah you can.

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Speaker 2: And then they will say this is not real. This

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Speaker 2: is why I say it's not real. And here's how

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Speaker 2: you know that what I am saying is much more

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Speaker 2: likely to be true than not. That is what I

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Speaker 2: think journalism is right now, like validate what is real

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Speaker 2: from what is not, because we are living in a

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Speaker 2: world of bullshit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so how do you mean? It's like now, that's

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Speaker 4: probably harder than ever.

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Speaker 2: To do, though, Yeah, it is definitely harder than ever

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Speaker 2: to do. It's why I don't fear for my job,

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Speaker 2: Like it is harder to do right now than it

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Speaker 2: ever has been. AI is gonna be a problem.

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Speaker 4: Right, what in your eyes? What is that problem?

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be. Well, like once upon a time, if

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Speaker 2: I had video evidence of something, I'm like, all right,

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Speaker 2: that's too expensive to fake. It could be faked. Maybe

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Speaker 2: I'll find other sources, Like and then I find another

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Speaker 2: source in it's a photograph from a different angle by

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Speaker 2: a different person whose background I can check out and

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Speaker 2: go like, all right, well these two things are they

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Speaker 2: don't know each other and they've both got the same thing.

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Speaker 2: I'm probably looking at it. And then fucking open AI

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Speaker 2: comes along and they can just do and on the

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Speaker 2: fly and for basically nothing, gin up an image, like

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Speaker 2: at which point I need to go and find human

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Speaker 2: sources and start making was this real? Were you there? Like?

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Speaker 2: What else? Did you see Is there other evidence that

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Speaker 2: you can show me?

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Speaker 4: What do you think is going to have to happen?

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Speaker 4: When I mean, the video technology with AI is kind

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Speaker 4: of already here basically more or.

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Speaker 1: Less, and it'll be even more and more accessible to

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Speaker 1: everyone eventually just tap table on your phone?

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Speaker 4: How do we like verify what is real?

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Speaker 2: So again, I think part of this is some of

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Speaker 2: it's going to be technical, some of it's going to

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Speaker 2: be just straight up Like I have a device that

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Speaker 2: can find AI in an.

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Speaker 4: Image, right, AI I should be able to find AI, right.

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Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, But then you've got to make sure that

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Speaker 2: the AI that you're using to find the AI itself

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Speaker 2: can be trusted. And so there's a whole chain of

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Speaker 2: things that I think have to happen. But part of

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Speaker 2: it is all is just the legwork. It's just somebody,

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Speaker 2: some schlubby dipshit who shows up and knocks on a

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Speaker 2: door or makes a phone call or until phone calls

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Speaker 2: can get faked.

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Speaker 4: I mean we're there now too, right.

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Speaker 2: Which is a real threat, like honestly, like, like the

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Speaker 2: the Georgia legislature just passed a law that outlaws the

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Speaker 2: use of AI to impersonate somebody else in medium really

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Speaker 2: so yeah, like we're gonna get We live in Georgia

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Speaker 2: and we're in a swing state and they're gonna dump

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Speaker 2: half a billion dollars in ads on us in the

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Speaker 2: next six months, and those ads are gonna be fucking stupid.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna suck.

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Speaker 2: It's the worst it's got. Like we've gone through two side.

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Speaker 1: Oh fuck it exhausting.

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Speaker 2: This is gonna be stupid on steroids, in part because

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Speaker 2: of the II ship, because it's gonna be super easy

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Speaker 2: to make it. Add that shows basically, anything you want

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Speaker 2: you don't have to spend a million dollars on it.

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Speaker 2: And oh, if this law hadn't passed, it would have

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Speaker 2: been like, I mean, whatever you think is the worst.

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Speaker 4: Possible, it's gonna happen.

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Speaker 2: And we're still gonna get like robo calls with somebody's

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Speaker 2: voice faked. That is gonna they're gonna say, vile, stupid ship.

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Speaker 2: Like the problem is we don't have the mechanisms to

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Speaker 2: chase down people who are gonna break this law.

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Speaker 1: We don't. I mean, like I thought spam calls were illegal.

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Speaker 1: I get them all the.

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Speaker 2: Time, all the time. I got two I was coming here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like, what the hell, come on, it's it's it's insane.

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Speaker 2: So this is my life as a journalist. It's bullshit

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Speaker 2: detection and that's And honestly, I don't think I'm ever

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Speaker 2: gonna be out of a job, like because there's too

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Speaker 2: much bullshit.

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Speaker 1: Do you think your job has gotten more important throughout

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Speaker 1: your career in that way or personally?

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Speaker 2: I would have said no until about three years ago. Really, yeah,

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Speaker 2: three or four years ago, like because anybody really can

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Speaker 2: be a journalist, like when you were. When you are

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Speaker 2: doing the work, you are a journalist, Like you get

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Speaker 2: better over time when you build up a you know,

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Speaker 2: a body of work. But the Internet and social media

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Speaker 2: to some degree was a democratizing function, or at least

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Speaker 2: it started out that way. Like I was looking forward

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Speaker 2: to a moment like that. I don't think it's ever

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Speaker 2: going to come now where there will be enough people

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Speaker 2: with enough eyes and some of them are going to

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Speaker 2: be full of shit and some won't, but you'd have

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Speaker 2: enough material where you could sift through it and get

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Speaker 2: it the truth right. And now I'm not so sure.

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Speaker 1: Like in theory that makes sense, where the access to

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Speaker 1: the information should be there enough where people could just

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Speaker 1: use their thinking gaps, yeah, and figure it out. But

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Speaker 1: it's muddied a little bit, is.

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Speaker 2: Some Some of this was getting a lot easier. It's

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Speaker 2: still getting some of the things are much much easier.

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Speaker 2: Like I don't have to go to the courthouse all

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Speaker 2: the time in order to pull a record, thank god

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Speaker 2: the UH. I can sit in my house and watch

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Speaker 2: a zoom meeting of a public conversation, like a public meeting.

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Speaker 2: I can make phone calls. I can find a phone

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Speaker 2: number that I could call, like because I'm not thumbing through,

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Speaker 2: I'm showing my age here, but really like I'm really

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Speaker 2: like it's I'm really like really basic things that we

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Speaker 2: take for granted, like googling somebody's name and finding a

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Speaker 2: phone number and calling it. Like things were getting easier.

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Speaker 4: Why do you like doing this stuff?

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Speaker 2: I'm naturally curious, uh, And honestly, I think it's just

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Speaker 2: this big philosophical question about like the arc of the

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Speaker 2: universe and history this. I think about how how fleeting

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Speaker 2: my life is. Like I've got like seven or eighty

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Speaker 2: years maybe more, if you know, healthcare gets better. How

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Speaker 2: old are you?

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Speaker 4: I'm thirty six.

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Speaker 2: There's a chance you'll live forever. You think so?

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Speaker 4: Or am I like right past the customers?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's it, Like we can see the line. I

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Speaker 2: think we're not there. I don't know, Maybe you.

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Speaker 1: Or I've just passed it.

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Speaker 2: Maybe me. I don't know, but I think we're close.

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Speaker 4: But do we want to live forever?

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Speaker 2: Well? I don't know. Like that's one of those things

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of looking around for. Like it's this idea

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Speaker 2: that there's all of this amazing stuff to look at

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Speaker 2: and my time is limited, and I am in a

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Speaker 2: job where I get to look at everything. I've got

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Speaker 2: an excuse to call anybody. I can. You know, if

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Speaker 2: I am curious, I can find an answer if there

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Speaker 2: is an answer to be found. And I do that

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Speaker 2: all day and as long as I stay curious, I

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Speaker 2: stay employed.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So really it's just a it's innate to you to

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Speaker 1: want to understand I think so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I think journalism should solve problems.

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Speaker 4: You think so, I do example of that? What do

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Speaker 4: you mean by that?

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Speaker 2: Like? All right, so I spend some time like at

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Speaker 2: the Atlanta Journal Constitution writing about crime. In fact, to

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Speaker 2: some degree, that's why I'm here. Yeah, And every time

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Speaker 2: I would show up where somebody got shot and killed,

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Speaker 2: and I'd be I'd be the guy who had to

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Speaker 2: knock on the damn door of the mother daughter husband,

356
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Speaker 2: knock knock. Hi, I'm George g D. I'm from the AJAC. Uh.

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Speaker 2: I understand that your your wife got just got killed

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Speaker 2: by a next murderer. And I would never ask this,

359
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Speaker 2: but like, so tell me how you feel? Sure like

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Speaker 2: it is the shittiest possible moment in the person.

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Speaker 4: How do you handle that kind of situation?

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Speaker 2: I mean, are you just absolute empathy, a sort of

363
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Speaker 2: an apologetic like like.

364
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Speaker 1: You know this sucks, acknowledging that this is intrusive.

365
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Speaker 2: And not pushing it like not if they're no, I'm no.

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Speaker 2: I don't ever want to be. There's there's a degree

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Speaker 2: to which I can't enter somebody's life like that. And

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Speaker 2: the problem was when I was at the AJAC, I

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Speaker 2: was entering a lot of people's lives like that, and

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Speaker 2: every time I did, I'm like, what the fuck am

371
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Speaker 2: I doing here? I Am about to write another story

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Speaker 2: where there's another black kid's face, like in like a

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Speaker 2: mugshot or like this guy is dead now picture at

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Speaker 2: am I actually solving any of the problems here? Am

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Speaker 2: I reducing the crime? Right? Am I bringing solace to Sometimes? Yes?

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Speaker 2: Mostly no? And I'm like, what this is bullshit? Like

377
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Speaker 2: I need to be fucking right. If I'm gonna do

378
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Speaker 2: anything around this stuff, I need to be solving the

379
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Speaker 2: fucking problems I'm writing about or else the people that

380
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Speaker 2: I am writing about will look at me like the enemy.

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Speaker 1: Right, You're just talking about it, and they do.

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Speaker 2: Like you go into like poor neighborhoods in Atlanta, You're

383
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Speaker 2: ask them what they think about the fucking media, like, oh,

384
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Speaker 2: the guys that show up when somebody got shot, right,

385
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 2: like that's it and that look, no, it's it's predatory.

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Speaker 2: I profit from your pain.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's easy to break it down that way.

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Speaker 1: And so you felt that you.

389
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Speaker 2: And I quit. I straight up quit. I quit. I

390
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,720
Speaker 2: thought I was done. Yeah, I went. I quit the

391
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Speaker 2: aj best job ever had until this one. I quit

392
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Speaker 2: the AJAC in two thousand and eight. Uh, to go

393
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Speaker 2: get an MBA two thousand and eight. Yeah, to get

394
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Speaker 2: an MBA well like master of Timing and I but

395
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Speaker 2: I was out. I was out for a while and

396
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Speaker 2: did some other marketing crap and whatever, and it just

397
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,520
Speaker 2: didn't feel the same and also wasn't good at it.

398
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Speaker 2: But I don't know, like you know, there's a I

399
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 2: don't have that mercenary. I have an MBA and I look,

400
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 2: I've got hustle all day long, but I'm not I

401
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,439
Speaker 2: can't make myself go like I am doing this specifically

402
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 2: because it will make me a lot of money.

403
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Speaker 1: Like because that's how you have to think. Really, you

404
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,880
Speaker 1: have to really be just married to it that way.

405
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Speaker 2: And I'm just I'm not wired that way. I can manage,

406
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,439
Speaker 2: but I'm not. I'm not a business guy. So I

407
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 2: worked on homelessness in Atlanta for a while and worked

408
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,679
Speaker 2: for the downtown business District on like sort of social problems, homelessness,

409
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 2: mental illness. Did that for a few years, made really

410
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 2: good political contacts, I might add, and I served on

411
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Speaker 2: my Pine Lake City Council when I wasn't doing that

412
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 2: population seven hundred and eighty not counting geese, and it

413
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 2: was a political education. So when I left a job,

414
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 2: or or the job left me in I went back

415
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Speaker 2: to writing because I knew I could make money. And

416
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 2: one thing leads to another, and I built a big audience,

417
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 2: so more than just one thing leads to another. It

418
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:16,360
Speaker 2: was diligent ground level, neighborhood level individual reporting. That's why

419
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 2: I ended up covering the young Thug trial. So I

420
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 2: was like ed protests. It was in the street in

421
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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, and I'm watching everything go.

422
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Speaker 1: Now.

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00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 2: I was there when the Wendy's burned down. Oh wow, Yeah,

424
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 2: watched the guys run out. Got my ass kicked over

425
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 2: there too, I might hear you. Yeah, what happened. So

426
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 2: this is the downside to you, like, gotta go look

427
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 2: at put my two eyes on it.

428
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

429
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 2: Well, so I'm I'm at home and it's like a

430
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: Saturday night and somebody on Twitter hits me and says,

431
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 2: there are guys with guns over at the Wendy's and

432
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Speaker 2: they're not letting anybody white drive by. And I'm like,

433
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 2: prove it. Yeah, that's bullshit. I don't believe you. That

434
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 2: sounds like some white supremacist bullshit that's online. I'm gonna

435
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 2: go look, and I'm black, so surely my Albert Brooks

436
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 2: sounding ass will be just fine. So I go over

437
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 2: there and there are a bunch of guys with you know,

438
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 2: air fifteens and handguns and all the rest. And yes, indeed,

439
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 2: they were not letting white people go by because there

440
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 2: are a bunch of like white supremacist proadboy assholes that

441
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 2: had been buzzing in and so they posted up. Turns

442
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 2: out they were a street gang and didn't like the

443
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 2: fact that I was a news reporter and had a

444
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 2: cell phone with a camera on it, and told me

445
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 2: to give them my cell phone and I did not,

446
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 2: because fuck them, I don't give my cell phone anybody.

447
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 2: And they said they're gonna shoot me, and I'm like,

448
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 2: I don't believe you.

449
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: Wow, look it's bold, it was, and you're like, we

450
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: hope so stupid, you know, yeah, so stood. I can

451
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 1: see myself hear me.

452
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 2: Don't fucking do that. Don't don't fucking do that.

453
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you said that, but I did and you didn't. Start.

454
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 2: Dude starts counting down to from ten to like saying

455
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 2: I'm gonna shoot you when I get to zero.

456
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 1: And at five he was just counting it down, had

457
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: his hand on his.

458
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 2: Pistol ready to pull, and I'm like at five, I'm like,

459
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 2: you know what, I think, I'll just I'll leave, good luck.

460
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: I walk away and the guy runs around front pops

461
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 2: me in the face and I'm like, I used to box.

462
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 2: I don't know what the fuck is wrong with me,

463
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 2: because like I didn't do anything. I mean, he was

464
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 2: small one, yeah, any and nothing happens in him. But

465
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 2: like this little chiron at the bottom of the screen

466
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 2: starts going, George, you are under attack, so wock somebody

467
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 2: else hits me, George, put your hands off. And so

468
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 2: I turned around and got my hands up on backing up,

469
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 2: and I'm like surrounded by like fifty guys with gun

470
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 2: like fuck him up.

471
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: Dude, And I'm like, fuck, So what do you do now?

472
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,360
Speaker 2: Well, I backed up into the light into like there's

473
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: a there's a gas station nearby, and I got into

474
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 2: the light, knew I was on camera, knew I was

475
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 2: fine at that point, and got into my car and

476
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: drove away, went to Grady. Yeah that's the downside of

477
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 2: on the ground putting your eyes on it. But here's

478
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,479
Speaker 2: the thing, So, like I'm writing about all of this stuff,

479
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 2: but as it's happening. I don't know if you remember.

480
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, but the crime rate, the violent crime

481
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: rate started to skyrocket fastest of any major city in

482
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: the United States. Homicide rate went up sixty percent in

483
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 2: a year. It's never Whilhy that you think, Well, that

484
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 2: is what I wanted to figure out. I am curious.

485
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 2: This should not be happening. I don't understand any of this.

486
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: But I've written about crime before, so I'm going to

487
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 2: write about it from this perspective. Why is this shit happening?

488
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 2: And I'm going to explain this to a bunch of

489
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: scared ass politicians who are gonna want turn this into

490
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 2: a police state, like this is why homicides have been rising,

491
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 2: this is why they rose this fast. Here, these are

492
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: the factors, these are the specific cases, this is what's

493
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 2: going on. Fannie Willis got elected and in her first

494
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 2: couple of months she said it's gangs, Like they're like

495
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: eighty percent of the violent crime in Atlanta's gangs. And

496
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't believe you, right, I don't. It's

497
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 2: exactly the sort of bullshit that a politician would.

498
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 4: Say, right, because you could play something right.

499
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna go look

500
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: and I start pulling indictments and you know, homicide cases,

501
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: whatever it could get my hands on, and it becomes

502
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: really evident, really fast that a street gang called YSL

503
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 2: was gonna get fucking rolled up, like because like YSL

504
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 2: keeps showing up in all of these other places, including

505
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: a big indictment of the YFN Street gang that came

506
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: down in twenty twenty two. And then I start looking

507
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: at what they're doing and like what young Thug is doing,

508
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, well that's suspicious, that's weird, and

509
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 2: oh this thing and oh well that's oh look at

510
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 2: that somebody got killed that's close to him and what

511
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 2: is this? You know? So I started writing like, oh yeah,

512
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 2: by the way, like why is he was going to

513
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 2: get fucking rolled up? And young Thug's probably going to

514
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: get arrested, and there's this whole like what what are

515
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 2: you talking about? Like how are you? And then young

516
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 2: Thug got arrested and.

517
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 4: Wise hell got rolled up and you were surprised and

518
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 4: I wasn't surprised.

519
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,479
Speaker 2: But all of a sudden, everybody's looking at me, like

520
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 2: you the police, and I'm like no.

521
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm just just looking at information here.

522
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 2: This shit would have been obvious to anybody who was

523
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 2: looking through those those documents. It's just somebody had to

524
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 2: go do it, like and so that's kind of my shtick,

525
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 2: Like I spent a lot of time looking at court

526
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 2: records and talking to people or have like looking at

527
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 2: these this idea like why was violent crime right? Because

528
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: it has cratered since?

529
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 4: So what was it?

530
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 2: So gangs some of it? Not eighty percent? Okay, I

531
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 2: think forty is probably a big number, like a lot,

532
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 2: but it's not eighty. It's not eighty. It was never eighty.

533
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: What it is is one everybody lost their fucking mind.

534
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: And I know that's sort of really basic, but I

535
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 2: mean the diagnosed rate of anxiety and depression rose by

536
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: twenty five percent.

537
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 4: Okay, well that's a factor for sure, that's a factor.

538
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 2: The Uh, we live in a state that has opened

539
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 2: Carrie like no concealed Carrie, no permit, all of that.

540
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 2: We also live in a state that kept the clubs

541
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: open when a bunch of other states around us closed them.

542
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 2: And so what ended up happening is folks from New

543
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 2: York and Chicago and Philly were coming down for fun

544
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 2: time in Atlanta, like literally, like there were like there'd

545
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: be like an Atlanta night in Philly and like flights

546
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 2: and they'd come in and they'd go party here. Only

547
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: like a turf war started to develop downtown around like

548
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 2: illicit drug sales and women like you know, sex trafficking

549
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: and those so normally, downtown Atlanta is one of the

550
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 2: safer zones in the city. Like its homicide raid increased

551
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 2: like four hundred percent. Like people were getting shot as

552
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: they were coming out of clubs, Like that was a.

553
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: Big partisan clashing going on of yeah outsiders.

554
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, some of it was. Like there was this

555
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 2: thing where Chicago street gangs were gang members were coming

556
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: into Atlanta, but it wasn't gang beef per se. They

557
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 2: were people who belonged to a gang who were having

558
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: a beef, but it's not.

559
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 4: The same thing from a different place.

560
00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was just interpersonal bullshit by people who are

561
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: easy to get a gun, really hard to get mental

562
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: health treatment, Like big mental health problem going on, a

563
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: lot of stressors related to the pandemic itself. People were

564
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 2: losing their housing left and right because they were losing

565
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: their jobs, and when people are desperate, desperate things happen.

566
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: Like a lot of those homicides were domestic violence shootings.

567
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 2: Some of them were over the stupidest shit in the world,

568
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: Like this guy, you shot a subway Uh, you know,

569
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 2: sandwich maker, you'd like, I mean too much mayonnaise on

570
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 2: the Sandwid's just.

571
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 4: Lost their mind because they just have had it.

572
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: With the world. The other thing is that the jails

573
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: became so crowded that it became hard to actually hold

574
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: on to people. And they're still overcrowded. And the jail

575
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 2: is a murder factory right.

576
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 4: Now, mean being murdered in jail.

577
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 2: So there were murders in jail. They were spitting out murderers,

578
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: and people were getting killed in jail one way or another.

579
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: They were dying, Like the death rate in the jails

580
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: increased fivefold during the pandemic prisons. Same thing. So I

581
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 2: mean a lot of factors, Like it's not just one thing, it's.

582
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 4: About anything, right right.

583
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: Part of it was the cops, like start, like the

584
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 2: relationship between the police and the public broke down in

585
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, and it's only just now starting to build

586
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: back up, Like street protests are going on, the cops

587
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 2: are pissy about it. Then there's the Rayshard Brooks murder

588
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 2: shooting killing Raychhard Brooks was killed by two cops at

589
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: the Wendy's And when those cops were fired and charged,

590
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,479
Speaker 2: like the other cops essentially went on strike. There's a

591
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 2: blue flu straight up, We're not responding to calls unless

592
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,719
Speaker 2: there's an act of violence happening right now. We're not

593
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 2: going to go police. Wow. Like and people saw that

594
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 2: shit and we're like.

595
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 4: Wow, great tissues.

596
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 2: Right Yeah. So I'm like, this is the context for

597
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: me looking at the YSL stuff. I'm like, all right,

598
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 2: Fannie Willis is ready to lay all of this shit

599
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 2: on you. What does that look like? And so I

600
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: dove in and here we are two years later.

601
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 4: What are the odds that young thug doesn't go to prison?

602
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 2: Doesn't go to prison? One and four?

603
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 4: One and four you think, okay, yeah, and.

604
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: I'll tell I'll tell you why it's because that's those

605
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: are the odds. I think there's a mistrial.

606
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 4: But don't they just go right back?

607
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, if this fucking mistrials, you can't tell me they're

608
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: going to try to charge them again. If it miss trials,

609
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 2: I mean, the very least still have bail, because there's

610
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: no fucking way they could keep him in, right. Yeah,

611
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: I think there's a one in chance of a mistrial.

612
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,479
Speaker 2: I don't I think if there is no mistrial, like

613
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: they caught him at his house with a switch and

614
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: you know enough promethes ine syrup to staff a CVS

615
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: Like there's he's he goes to jail for that. I think, Okay,

616
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 2: the rest of it is a crapshoot. I don't know.

617
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: They have to prove that he rented a car intending

618
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 2: for the person to use it in a drive by,

619
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 2: and on some really basic level. I have been asking

620
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 2: myself this question this whole time, is why would you

621
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: be stupid enough to rent a car that you knew

622
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 2: would be used in a drive by? You steal a

623
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 2: fucking car if you're going to do a drive by

624
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: so that it doesn't trace back to you. Now, granted,

625
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: like the folks who were doing this weren't smart. We

626
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: prosecute the gangsters where we can catch like so at

627
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: the drive by where like one of the rivals of

628
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: YSL Donovan Thomas was killed in twenty fifteen, car drives

629
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: by barber shop comes out very godfather like kills the

630
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: guy drives off. One of them had a cell phone

631
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 2: in his pocket. Another of them, little Duke, was in

632
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: jail like in Ryce Street like on unrelated stuff. He

633
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 2: had just been picked up a week or so before.

634
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 2: Called the dude in the car on the cell phone

635
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: from a jail phone that was recorded. Wow, cell phone,

636
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: pull the records, look at the towers that it was

637
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: pinging off, and oh shit, that cell phone was at

638
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 2: the scene at the time of the murder. Like that's

639
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: fucking it. Like that's the end of that guy.

640
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: Like that's yeah, that's pretty uh cut and dry, and

641
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: I think yeah.

642
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 2: And then it's just a matter of can the prosecution

643
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,959
Speaker 2: tie that to the other people in the car and

644
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: to the other people in the case, Like that's that's it.

645
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: Like so I'm sure they've got somebody dead to fucking rights. Yeah, yeah,

646
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 2: Like the question is how many other people do they

647
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 2: actually loop in?

648
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 4: How much longer do you think it's going to take

649
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 4: for there to be a verdict.

650
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 2: Here unless they like so the judge looks like he's

651
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 2: trying to speed things up. I don't think he's doing

652
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 2: a good job.

653
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 1: I don't when yeah, I.

654
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 2: Think it goes another year.

655
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: Damn.

656
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 2: They have one hundred and fifty witnesses to go, they'

657
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 2: and that's after knocking a bunch of them off. They

658
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: have one hundred and fifty witnesses to go. They're averaging

659
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 2: two a week, three maybe that's a year. They haven't

660
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 2: even gotten to the good ones.

661
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: What if they just spent all that time and money

662
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: in trying to do something at else with it, Like

663
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: if they cared so much about this issue.

664
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking about what three million dollars

665
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 2: would have done to Cleveland Avenue if you put it

666
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 2: in the right places. Cleveland Avenue needs a lot of help.

667
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 2: Cleveland Avenue is the part of Atlanta that is gentrifying.

668
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 4: Yet it's not a funk.

669
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: It's in a funk like and so folks who are

670
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 2: living there because they can't find anywhere else. Like it

671
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: was tremendously violent during the during the pandemic, it is,

672
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 2: it's calmed down now because everybody's calmed down. Terrible relationship

673
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 2: with the police, big social problems, and you got to

674
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 2: work at that, Like you need a carpet bombit with

675
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 2: social workers and jobs, like that's how you fix that. Eddie.

676
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: One of those kids who got caught up in this shit.

677
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 2: I say kids, I mean like some of them were

678
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: sixteen when they were first charged with a murder. In

679
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 2: this case, you'd given them a job that had a future,

680
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: they would never have fucking gotten involved with any other shit. Yeah.

681
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 2: Of course one of them was just a kid who

682
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: was getting picked on for his weight in school, and like,

683
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: you know what, that leads to another. He meets young

684
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 2: thug and was playing at this Young Thug and YSL

685
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 2: were sponsoring a pop order football team called the Cleveland

686
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 2: Avenue forty nine ers. Kid gets involved, meets young thug.

687
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 2: Suddenly he's bad bris. The rapper bad bris. He can't wrap,

688
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 2: but he's got a video.

689
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, And meanwhile he's.

690
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 2: Knocking over like an armed robbery here, you know, carjacking

691
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 2: over there. And when they tried to arrest him, he

692
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 2: shot the cop that was trying to arrest him six times,

693
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 2: including one in the head. The cop survived. While in jail,

694
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 2: he's been fighting with guards and whoever else. Like he

695
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 2: needs a lot of therapy, but he needed it five years.

696
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: Ago, right, what's taking so long?

697
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: Part of it is, I think Fannie Willis is distracted

698
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 2: by other cases, okay, like the Trump case. Part of

699
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 2: it is it's such a giant, sprawling mess of case

700
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: with twenty eight defendants that it come to the courts

701
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: up eight ways to Sunday, and they didn't really unscrew

702
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 2: themselves for a solid year. Part of it is because

703
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 2: the prosecutor who had been following this stuff, had been

704
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 2: building this case for seven years quit or was fired

705
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: or something. I don't exactly know. All I know is

706
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 2: that Don Geary was the subject matter expert on this

707
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: reco case, and Don Geary four months in or so

708
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: quit to go to Gwinnett the rumor and please, like

709
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 2: I have a journalist of traffics and truth, so please

710
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: understand that what I am telling you is not something

711
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 2: I could validate by a source that I could put

712
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 2: on the record. But I feel comfortable enough saying that

713
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: it's courthouse chatter that Fannie Willis didn't want like old

714
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 2: white guy prosecuting the case in front of what would

715
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 2: presumably be a majority black jury with a bunch of

716
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: black defendants in an emotionally charged, like complicated, like music

717
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 2: stuff like case that she thought he wouldn't be able

718
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 2: to get the conviction across. And he's like, yeah, but

719
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 2: I know this fucking case better than anybody, Like you're

720
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: gonna replace me with somebody else's gonna start from scratch, Okay,

721
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 2: well good luck, buy and quit, Like so I have heard.

722
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 4: I have that makes making sense.

723
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 2: So I've asked him to tell me and he has

724
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: been unwilling. The person who took over the case has

725
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 2: been like this whole process has just been delayed and slow,

726
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 2: and I think part of it is because the the

727
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 2: prosecutor has been playing games with disclosure. When you are

728
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: putting somebody on try and you're the prosecutor, you are

729
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: obligated to give them all of the information that you're

730
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 2: going to use in the case before the trial starts.

731
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 2: And that's not really happened. Like they've been dribbling this

732
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 2: stuff in small amounts and then like two terabytes of garbage.

733
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 4: Like it's in there, I promise, Like it as a game.

734
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a game, Like they've been playing games with

735
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 2: discovery and it's just slowed everything down because the lawyers

736
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 2: are like, look, we need time to look through this

737
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 2: pile of garbage you just handed me for the stuff

738
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 2: you're actually going to use in the case. Oh, by

739
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: the way, we have four hundred witnesses. Excuse me, No,

740
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 2: we have four hundred witnesses, So we have to qualify

741
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: four hundred witnesses, like where a quarter of them are cops,

742
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 2: so they all have to you have to go through

743
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 2: a whole series of hearings to figure out who's an

744
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: expert on why and all the rest of this, and

745
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 2: then jury selection took eight months, which is the longest

746
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 2: it's ever taken for anything ever the school cheating scandal,

747
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 2: like where they recode teachers in Atlanta, like Jerry, selection

748
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 2: was four months. Like eight months, they went through two

749
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 2: thousand jurors to seat twelve people and four alternates. A

750
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: lot of this it puts pressure on a defendant to

751
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 2: take a deal no matter what, because all this time

752
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 2: you're sitting in Rice Street like Stabby Stabby. Yeah, there's

753
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 2: a stabbing every day at Rye Street. There are three

754
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: thousand inmates. They're about fifteen.

755
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 4: Hundred now because they is that where Young Thug is.

756
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 2: No, he's actually in Cobb County, but the rest of

757
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 2: his crew is in Rice Street. And that's part of

758
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 2: the reason why. Like of the twenty eight, like ten

759
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: of them took deals just off the spot. Get me

760
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: a fuck out of.

761
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: This, yeah, like what you're doing here?

762
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, no jail time, all probation, give me the deal done. Yeah,

763
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: ten years, I'll take the ten years.

764
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: Young Thug is a rapper. YSL is his gang. I

765
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: guess you could say that, right, So that's.

766
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: Like that is what the prosecution says, and honestly, like

767
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 2: as I look at the evidence, Yeah, that's fair. Okay.

768
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 2: So there is a street gang on Cleveland Avenue called YSL,

769
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 2: and folks who are on trial have been affiliated with

770
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 2: that gang at one point or another, Like that's real.

771
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 2: The question is whether or not they were breaking laws

772
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 2: in ways that make them vulnerable to the gang statute

773
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 2: and the reco case. It's not illegal to be in

774
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 2: a gang. It is not illegal to be in a

775
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 2: street gang. Okay.

776
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: What is what is illegal?

777
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 2: If your street gang is committing crimes as a gang

778
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: and you're all sticking together in order to defend each

779
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 2: other legally, then it's illegal.

780
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: I see.

781
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 2: Like the difference between a street gang and a hockey

782
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 2: team is whether or not you get in a fight on.

783
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 5: The on the ice, ye, like, like you take the

784
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 5: fucking two minute time out when you're done, and you're

785
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 5: not hitting him in the parking lot after the game.

786
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 2: Like that's like it's really that simple, Like you're as

787
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 2: long as you're not. Like the questions whether or not

788
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 2: they committed crimes and whether or not those crimes fit

789
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 2: under like the gang statute that says, if you commit

790
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 2: this crime, you're an illegal gang member who goes to

791
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 2: jail for five years.

792
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: Do you feel like the prosecution is more about making

793
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: an example out of this.

794
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 2: I think that's part of it. I don't think that's

795
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 2: all of it. But I sincerely believe that Fannie Willis

796
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: sincerely believed that taking YSL and YFN. So there was

797
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 2: a gang war going on that started in twenty fifteen,

798
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 2: fifty people got shot, and there are a bunch of

799
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: people who got murdered. She believed that, like taking those

800
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 2: two gangs off the street was going to reduce the

801
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 2: homicide rate. And I think she was right.

802
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: Really, see it was that big of a chuck, you think.

803
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 2: So it's complicated, but like remember a bunch of different factors. Yeah,

804
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 2: and this might be a coincidence. But like the week

805
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 2: that YSL was arrested, Young Thug was arrested, like the

806
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: like that's the inflection point in the chart, The running

807
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: three hundred and sixty five day murder total started to

808
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 2: fall that week. Now, they weren't out there fucking killing everybody,

809
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 2: they really weren't, but all the other gangs saw young

810
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 2: thug VERSACI contract Saturday Night Live appearance like Grammy million

811
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 2: Dollar House, young thug gets arrested. Oh shit, they're coming.

812
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 2: And I think that that had a chilling effect on

813
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 2: the willingness of like legitimate street gang members to commit

814
00:43:55,719 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 2: crimes in Fulton County. Homicide rate's been falling everywhere in

815
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 2: Metro Atlanta for years except to Cab County because the

816
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 2: Cab County is uniquely fucked up. And hear me when

817
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 2: I say this, because I'm a Black Lives Matter marching

818
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:24,240
Speaker 2: police brutality reducing like criminal Justice Reform guide. The city

819
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: of Atlanta has about fifteen hundred cops.

820
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 4: Is that a lot? Is that?

821
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's about it's for the size of

822
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 2: a city. It's about average, maybe a little on the

823
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,439
Speaker 2: high side, but not a lot. The Cab County has

824
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 2: about the same population that it polices because there's little

825
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 2: cities inside. They have six hundred oh no, five hundred

826
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: and thirty five. Now it is less. Yeah, it's it's

827
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 2: so much less that I can't find other counties of

828
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 2: a similar size that have fewer than a thousand.

829
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 4: So you're not saying that there shouldn't be less policing.

830
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 2: Se No, what I think is going on is that

831
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 2: like some of the gangsters in Atlanta realized that it

832
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 2: was easier to fucking work into cab and so they.

833
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: Do, Yeah, less ways to get in trouble.

834
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not that, And it's not like the cops

835
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,959
Speaker 2: aren't busting people, but they're only the resources are only

836
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 2: so great. You know. It's funny like drug Rich is

837
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: a gang. It's in my neighborhood. It's like sort of

838
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 2: South Hairston Memorial Drive into Cab.

839
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 6: Uh.

840
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 2: They're the ones that were knocking over the houses of

841
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 2: celebrities in North Fulton, like Mariah Carey's house. What they do, Oh,

842
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 2: they it's home invasions like or just a straight up burglary,

843
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 2: like she's gone, we're gonna steal some shit. They got

844
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 2: busted by Fulton, Like they're charged by Fulton. Wow, they

845
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 2: weren't charged by Decab. The cab just rolled up a

846
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,240
Speaker 2: bunch of people. They just pulled in a thirty person

847
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: rico that I've got to go dig into. Like they're

848
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 2: getting there, but they just don't have the manpower. It's

849
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 2: one of it's a rare exception to this general rule

850
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 2: of over policing, like they have a very acute, very

851
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 2: specific problem.

852
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,839
Speaker 1: I see, Yeah, this sample is unique in that way.

853
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 2: And that's the value of like doing the kind of

854
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 2: journalism that I've been trying to do. It's not like

855
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,439
Speaker 2: when you turn on the evening news and you're looking

856
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 2: at crime. Shit, it's going to be this person got shot.

857
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always just in your face and then there's

858
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 1: no follow up, the context.

859
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 2: And no context. And I am anti that.

860
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: What problem as a journalist are you trying to solve

861
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 1: by covering young thugs case?

862
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 2: So part of it is just this like there was

863
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 2: this giant, this narrative about the black community, about rap

864
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 2: about crime in Atlanta that all sort of converges on

865
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 2: that case. And what I wanted to tell people was,

866
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 2: all right, here is how much of what we talk

867
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 2: about when we talk about gang crime that is real

868
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,240
Speaker 2: and how much is not. So that when your politicians

869
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 2: are telling you they want to spend a billion dollars

870
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 2: to build a new jail, you have enough information that

871
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 2: can make that evaluate that appropriately. Or if they're telling

872
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 2: you that they need to spend oh sixty million dollars

873
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 2: on a police training facility, whether or not that's bullshit.

874
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 2: You know, whether or not there's a better way to

875
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 2: spend that money that happens, I think there is.

876
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 4: It's a billion dollars.

877
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: So yeah, the jail's an interesting problem, Like, but I

878
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 2: don't think that rebuilding the jail solves it. They have

879
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 2: a staffing problem. It's like just like all police departments.

880
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 1: Right now, sounds like a shitty job.

881
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 2: Though, well that's why they have a staffing problem.

882
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 4: Would you want to not being.

883
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 2: Like the odds of being stabbed as a as a

884
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 2: sheriff's deputy that jail are higher than they might be otherwise,

885
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 2: and they're paying fifty grand, and you take your chances.

886
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 2: I admire people who are willing to do this work

887
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 2: if they're doing it for if they're doing it for

888
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,760
Speaker 2: the right reasons, which is what like, there's a rehabilitative

889
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 2: to all of this, that need that good cops are

890
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 2: looking for. Like there are people who get swallowed up

891
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 2: by the criminal justice system that like, with the right help,

892
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: you know, the right word, can pull out of that

893
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 2: and have lives that are productive and meaningfully.

894
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 4: Form their lives. And in what in whatever way that is.

895
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: Like I mean and on some really basic level, the

896
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 2: system needs to work, and like or else, we do

897
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 2: not live in a state of justice. And if you're

898
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: about that, you know you don't care about the cost,

899
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 2: You're not. I didn't it can become a journalist for

900
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 2: the money, and I don't think cops do either, clearly,

901
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 2: Like there's a you know, I can.

902
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 4: But if they got paid more, do you think that

903
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:45,760
Speaker 4: they get smarter people?

904
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 2: Maybe by I don't think that's it. It's just see,

905
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 2: it's more than money. Money matters, and I think we

906
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: are at a point where money is going well.

907
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: Doctors got paid shit, then would there be an appeal

908
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: to go to school for ten years?

909
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 2: Doctors get paid ship in places like you know, England

910
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 2: relative to the United States, Like you go to a

911
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 2: place with socialized medicine, and doctors aren't making five hundred

912
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 2: thousand or three hundred thousand dollars a year.

913
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 4: It's it really more of a bipartuct of like how

914
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 4: we have.

915
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: The health and assurance yeah set up over here.

916
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 2: Really this like I think, you know, I think that

917
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 2: policing is in a state of crisis right now. I

918
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 2: think there are a lot of folks who within like

919
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 2: a lot of police officers who are wrestling with what

920
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 2: am I doing here? Like this used to be much

921
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 2: more respected than it was.

922
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: When was it more respected? I mean, like I guess

923
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 1: when was it doing well?

924
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I suppose, like you can look at the

925
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: I think the decline began in the you know, mid

926
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,839
Speaker 2: two thousands. And when I'm talking about respect, I mean, like,

927
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 2: I don't mean like, you know, here's a free ice

928
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 2: cream cone. I mean this sort of social idea that

929
00:49:55,360 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 2: police officers were helpful and useful to communities in crisis. There's, like,

930
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 2: you know, there's been a lot of money spent on

931
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 2: policing and not nearly enough on the social issues that

932
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 2: reduce crime in the first place. I think that society

933
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 2: is coming to that realization, but it's in fits and spurts.

934
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 2: And I think policing as a as a profession, I

935
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 2: think police professionals are really doing all right. How do

936
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 2: I fit into this? Like, how do I make this work?

937
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 2: Particularly in the places where I want to police? Yeah,

938
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 2: where like I mean you talk to an Atlanta street cop,

939
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 2: they are there because they want to do good for

940
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 2: the community that they're in. And I'm going to get

941
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 2: a bunch of like you know, anarchists are pissed at

942
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 2: me for saying that, Like, I'm not that like abolition

943
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 2: is the only correct thing that we should be striving

944
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 2: toward a society that requires fewer police and preferably as none.

945
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 2: And I don't subscribe to that view. I don't think

946
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 2: we can realistically get there.

947
00:50:58,160 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 4: And why is that?

948
00:50:59,000 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 2: You think?

949
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 4: Does that is a human thing? I think it's a

950
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 4: product doing bounds to be put within.

951
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: It's just we live in this really unequal society. Okay,

952
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 2: you know what, Like this is one of the big things. Like,

953
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 2: as I was looking at why violent crime spiked here,

954
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 2: there is a massive correlation between like concentrated poverty and

955
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 2: inequality and the speed with which their violent crime rate increased.

956
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:33,879
Speaker 2: You look at some neighborhoods, like in Philly where you've

957
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 2: got census tracts that are seventy percent poor, which is

958
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 2: off the fucking chain. That's nuts, Like massive explosion violence

959
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 2: there of the kind that distorted the politics of Philadelphia.

960
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 2: East Saint Louis, massive inequality, New Orleans massive inequality. Jackson

961
00:51:54,239 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 2: fucking Mississippi, and I am heading to Jackson, Mississippi, massive inequality,

962
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 2: highest murder rate of any city over one hundred thousand

963
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 2: in the United States.

964
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 4: Damn.

965
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 2: Like the murder rate here got to like thirty six

966
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 2: per hundred thousand, which is very high. Okay, it's like

967
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 2: over one hundred jeez in Jackson's.

968
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 4: Corporation, is is it?

969
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 6: Like?

970
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 2: I mean, it's all of those factors that I was

971
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 2: talking about multiplied by a bunch of people who don't

972
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 2: have resources. Like, look, if you and I, for whatever reason,

973
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 2: had beef and it was getting out of hand, you

974
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 2: have options, and so you can kind of geat. You

975
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 2: can leave. You could get into a car that you

976
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 2: own and drive away. You can call an uber because

977
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: you've got a cell phone that has money attached to it,

978
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,919
Speaker 2: and you could call a lawyer, call a shrink, call

979
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:52,879
Speaker 2: call your wife. Like, but when you're really impoverished, Yeah,

980
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 2: Like your menu of options you're stuck is smaller, and

981
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 2: so suddenly if it's a coin flip between shooting some

982
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,240
Speaker 2: and running away as opposed to all of these other things,

983
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 2: people who are have impulse control problems that are otherwise

984
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 2: they'll make the wrong choice.

985
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 4: Like, it's also kind of a survival instinct a little bit.

986
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 2: A little bit, especially if you feel threatened. But it's

987
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 2: this like like all of these multiple factors all together,

988
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 2: and then because rich people get into arguments too, we

989
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 2: don't shoot each other in general because we have all

990
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 2: of these other options and something to.

991
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: Lose, right, if you have nothing to lose, that's kind

992
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: of when you could do anything.

993
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 4: Because what's the matter.

994
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 2: With the young thug? Stuff like that really is a

995
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 2: policy thing for me, Like it's this is about seeing

996
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 2: criminal justice policy improve so that you have fewer cases

997
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 2: like that coming through the courts, so that when cases

998
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 2: like that do come there is an understanding in the

999
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 2: public of what they should expect. That you get better juries,

1000
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 2: maybe that you get better prosecutors, and maybe spend a

1001
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 2: little less money on this stuff.

1002
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a lot of money.

1003
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm thinking about, like, if you're going to

1004
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 2: go through this whole prosecution, and I've been saying this constantly.

1005
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 2: You go through this whole two years of prosecution where

1006
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,879
Speaker 2: you're sped in ten thousand dollars a day in order

1007
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 2: to prosecute or something crazy like that, but you don't

1008
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 2: change the material conditions on Cleveland Avenue where YSL was based.

1009
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 2: Five years from now, you've got to be back in

1010
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 2: court with another set of guys.

1011
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 4: You're not really solving a problem.

1012
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 1: You're just now you're stuck in this thing that you

1013
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,839
Speaker 1: started and you're just on finishing that.

1014
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 2: But it takes all of the reporting to show like,

1015
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 2: look like you're doing all of this and that's great,

1016
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 2: but if you don't do this too, you are not

1017
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 2: solving the problem.

1018
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: So for you, is the Young thug ysl case about

1019
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: highlighting those things?

1020
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 2: Yes, and so it didn't just happen for now. Yeah,

1021
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 2: that's it. I mean, it is about highlighting all of

1022
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 2: the other aspects of the criminal justice system. And I

1023
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 2: might add like music.

1024
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: Stuff, which is a very weird part of it, right, yeah,

1025
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 1: very like because all those songs are bangers too.

1026
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:19,280
Speaker 2: As I'm starting to be a fan, like I bearn

1027
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 2: in mind, like I'm fifty one years old. Like if

1028
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 2: it was post Wu Tang Clan, I needed a shirpa, right.

1029
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 1: I know, you need to be brought up to speed.

1030
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: Like this is not outcast? What is this stuff? Yeah?

1031
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:34,800
Speaker 2: Like so now I'm I kinda Yeah, my co host

1032
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 2: is a much better has a much rich, deep understanding

1033
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 2: of rap and trap and music in general. Yeah, Like

1034
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 2: Christina Lee was a Godsend and my producer Tommy Andres.

1035
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 2: When he connected the two of us, that was. That

1036
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 2: was the peanut, butter and chocolate coming together. The we

1037
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 2: covered each other's bases like and it was some of

1038
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 2: the best reporting I've ever done. That's amazing. There is

1039
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 2: a connection. Let me tell you this, Like if people

1040
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 2: don't want to fucking hear this, there is a connection

1041
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 2: and it is real between those street gang life in

1042
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:11,840
Speaker 2: Atlanta and the music scene. That cannot be ignored.

1043
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 4: What's the connection?

1044
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 2: So street gangs are using connections to music studios and

1045
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 2: labels as a recruiting tool, like hey, I should make

1046
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 2: up a name like Fast Freddy or whatever, Like he's

1047
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:33,839
Speaker 2: got a street gang ABC whatever, and he's famous and

1048
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 2: the street gang is affiliated with him, and he's affiliated

1049
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 2: with them, and he's named checking them in the music

1050
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 2: and that gang. When you're trying to appeal to thirteen

1051
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:48,240
Speaker 2: and fourteen and fifteen year olds like that gang stuff,

1052
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 2: when it's connected to the music stuff becomes really attractive.

1053
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 2: Like if you're a thirteen year old, you've got mediocre

1054
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 2: grades and you don't know whethery're not going to be

1055
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 2: able to get out of the hood and You're like,

1056
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 2: you don't see outs for yourself. Poverty, concentrated poverty. Some

1057
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 2: guy who theoretically could connect you to a producer who

1058
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 2: could get you distributed and then get you a contract

1059
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 2: for one hundred grand in a chain looks like an out.

1060
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: I mean it is an out right, yeah.

1061
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 2: And it is. It is an out for enough people

1062
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 2: for everybody else to sort of play along. But in

1063
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 2: the meanwhile, you get thirteen year olds getting murdered at

1064
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 2: Atlantic Station. The Atlantic Station shooting from a couple of

1065
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 2: years ago, you remember with the kids, Yeah, rap shit

1066
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 2: was it? Yeah, there's a rapper named Ola Brunt and

1067
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 2: he's getting out of jail prison in like a couple

1068
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 2: of months. His brother's Ola Cam who was assigned rapper

1069
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 2: who was one of the ones who got killed. And

1070
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 2: it's because ops from a different gay ran into each

1071
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 2: other at the mall, got pushed out onto the into

1072
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 2: the bridge where our shootout took place. Like it was

1073
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 2: Internet driven Instagram beef bullshit.

1074
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, like but it was over rep stuff.

1075
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 2: Or it's connected, Like, it's not an accident that this

1076
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 2: guy has a fucking late like is a label contract?

1077
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 2: And I am asking the question, at what point do

1078
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 2: the labels begin to to a creue liability for some

1079
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 2: of this, Like the labels are in turn recruiting what

1080
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 2: they believe are authentic and legitimate gangsters street guys, like

1081
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 2: they're legit. They're looking for legit street guys.

1082
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 4: Do they really think that they really are? Because not

1083
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 4: all of them are. Some of them are.

1084
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 2: So no, some of them are, some of them are not.

1085
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 1: We just assumed, like we're not growing up, that half

1086
00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 1: of them were lying, right.

1087
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 2: So we like, I mean, the way they'll say it

1088
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 2: is that they're all lying, And what I'm saying is

1089
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 2: they're not all lying. There are enough of them that

1090
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 2: are not lying for it to be fairly obvious that

1091
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 2: there is a pattern year because they know that they can,

1092
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 2: Like there's a formula like insert street wrapper here, wrap

1093
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 2: x amount of marketing around this guy in this exact way,

1094
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 2: and there is a thirty percent chance that he will

1095
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 2: pay off, not one hundred. Everybody doesn't blow up. It's

1096
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 2: like the venture capital formula, like you invest in ten

1097
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,479
Speaker 2: different companies, five of them die, and you get one

1098
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 2: that blows up and it pays for everything else. So

1099
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 2: they're doing that, like get a contract for fifty grand

1100
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 2: like there used to be like big five hundred thousand

1101
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 2: dollars contracts. Now they're giving that like one hundred thousand

1102
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 2: dollars contracts knowing that some of them are going to

1103
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 2: blow up, knowing that some of them are going to

1104
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 2: get killed, which increases the value of their musical portfolio.

1105
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 4: That's an interesting point.

1106
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 2: Which in a weird way incentivizes them to recruit folks

1107
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 2: who are gonna crash out one way or another. And

1108
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 2: that's something I'm still reporting through That might be my

1109
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 2: last gasp. I've been in a gathering string on this

1110
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 2: for about two years now. There are including some that

1111
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 2: are operating in Atlanta, that have made a business model

1112
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 2: to some degree of this, and folks in the industry

1113
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 2: understand who they are. And if I sound like I'm

1114
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 2: being cagy, it's because I absolutely need my ducks in

1115
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 2: a row before I start laying down the names.

1116
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 4: That makes sense to me.

1117
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 2: Like when you look at the number of murdered rappers

1118
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 2: on some labels, and there are a few everywhere, and

1119
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 2: then you get a few labels where it's like this

1120
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 2: long list, then you've got to start wondering. And there's

1121
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 2: a whole insurance element to this that's interesting that I

1122
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 2: just can't seem to get at key Man insurance, Like

1123
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,479
Speaker 2: it is customary for a music label to take out

1124
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 2: an insurance policy on uh an artist. And you know,

1125
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 2: if you've got one hundred artists and you think that

1126
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 2: one of them's going to get killed and the payoffs

1127
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 2: one thousand and one for the cost, it starts to

1128
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 2: become a profitable idea to sign as many drill rappers

1129
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 2: that are in the street as you can.

1130
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 1: What's the other side of this though, where if you

1131
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: were impoverished, you grew up in this community and you

1132
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 1: came out of this and this is you're rapping about

1133
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: the experiences that you know or maybe all that you

1134
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 1: know and have seen, and you grow out of that

1135
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 1: into this music artist and you're rapping about those things.

1136
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: Isn't that sort of a like the see that's the

1137
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 1: other side of this, right, because that's a positive thing.

1138
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 2: It's positive. It's also real, Like I am not a

1139
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 2: person who wants to take away somebody's art or somebody's career.

1140
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 1: So where do you think that where is the line

1141
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 1: to you or like, where does it get weird?

1142
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 2: I think it's I think part of it is about incentives,

1143
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 2: Like is the label sitting there going, uh, we really

1144
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 2: need you to write more about killing people, or we

1145
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 2: really need you to go and like like go ahead

1146
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 2: and amplify this beef. Yeah, I know you're you're like,

1147
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 2: I'm increasing the chances that somebody's gonna shoot you, but

1148
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 2: you want this record deal, right, Like, I think that's

1149
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 2: where you start. That's where one like one of the

1150
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 2: big lines.

1151
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 1: Is like I listened to all of Young Thugs music

1152
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 1: and I'll get out of the shower and I'm in

1153
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 1: the mirror like like, yeah.

1154
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 4: Listen to the song. I'm not gonna ever kill anybody

1155
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 4: because I've heard that nobody is.

1156
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,919
Speaker 2: Nobody's fucking killing anybody because they fucking heard a song.

1157
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: But there's a direct correlation to the community that's close

1158
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: to them. Is that that's really what you're saying, right.

1159
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has nothing to do necessarily with inspiring people

1160
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 2: to go murder like right, because I'm like there's a

1161
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 2: whole like the elegant like that, yes, like like the.

1162
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 1: Medium, I think that's not true, but yeah.

1163
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 2: No, I don't think that's it at all. It's more

1164
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,439
Speaker 2: like this idea that you're looking for folks who are

1165
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 2: like for real, like involved in criminal activity that likely

1166
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 2: results in violence, like and saying that's the person that

1167
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 2: I want to amplify because I think I can profit

1168
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 2: from that. Now, I was this whole thing where like,

1169
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 2: as a journalist, I have an antipathy toward like trying

1170
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 2: to write about terrible things because I don't want to

1171
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 2: be profiting from the misery of others. What the fuck

1172
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 2: do you do with a music label that is literally

1173
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 2: chasing after people like in order to profit from the

1174
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 2: fucking misery that they may be creating in a community, Like,

1175
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 2: that's the worst fucking thing in the world to me.

1176
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 2: And at some point, and I think we may have

1177
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 2: the case here in Atlanta soon, at some point some

1178
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 2: murder victims family, it's got to chase not after the

1179
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: estate of whoever shot the person, but the fucking label.

1180
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:16,919
Speaker 2: It's got to be Universal or whatever BMG is right now,

1181
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 2: or Sony or something like that that's on the hook

1182
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:22,000
Speaker 2: because they've got the big pocket.

1183
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:23,959
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is how it goes.

1184
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 2: So, Yeah, the minute this stops being profitable, it ends.

1185
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 2: The minute drill music stops making a marginal profit, They're

1186
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:37,840
Speaker 2: not going to fucking sign drill rappers anymore because the

1187
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 2: liability is too high, and as the liability arises enough,

1188
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 2: drill rap disappears. It's not an accident. People are exacerbating

1189
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 2: beef strictly for the fucking views. Well, yeah, like it's Instagram,

1190
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 2: I mean does that? Yeah? I mean we're living through

1191
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 2: it right.

1192
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 4: Now, I know, yeah.

1193
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 2: And I look at that, like, what the fuck? Why

1194
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 2: are you millionaires emulating some like baby drill, Like what

1195
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 2: the fuck are you doing?

1196
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 4: I mean because the kids like it, I guess.

1197
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:12,040
Speaker 2: Because the kids like it, Like there's this and I

1198
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 2: hate all of this because like the people who are

1199
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 2: consuming this are not like most music sales are to

1200
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 2: people who live in the suburbs, because they're the ones

1201
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 2: with the money. Like the local kids are listening to it,

1202
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 2: but they're not the ones who are financially contributing. Like

1203
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 2: it is. Sure the wider broader market Atlanta influences everything,

1204
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 2: taking this these images, these this music, this culture and

1205
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 2: spreading it all over the world profitably. And now I'm

1206
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 2: looking at like the marketing of black people behaving badly

1207
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 2: and trying to kill each other, and I fear that,

1208
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 2: like there's a commercial element of like a marketing push

1209
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 2: for rappers to beef because people fight, fight, fight, fight,

1210
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 2: even though you don't have a fucking stake in it, Like,

1211
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 2: go ahead, guys, go ahead.

1212
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, everyone's a world star, right Yeah.

1213
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 2: And then you go like there's a shooting it. Oh

1214
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 2: my god, there's a lot of attention and media guys

1215
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 2: show up. Add suddenly everybody's playing the music that they

1216
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 2: weren't playing before, and yeah, here we are, like that

1217
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 2: shit needs to be strangled in a fucking crib. Maybe

1218
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 2: the Young Thunk trial is what gets us there. I

1219
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 2: don't know, something needs to fucking change.

1220
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 1: What kind of message you want to leave for other

1221
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 1: aspiring journalists coming up in this you know, weird time?

1222
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 2: Okay, well, what don't be afraid to get kicked out

1223
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 2: of a place. We didn't even talk about the Trump shit.

1224
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 1: I know.

1225
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 4: I mean that's that's round test part two.

1226
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 2: Then yeah, I guess, don't be afraid to get kicked out.

1227
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 2: If you're not irritating somebody with your reporting, you're not

1228
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 2: doing it right. Uh. Also ask good questions like we

1229
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 2: ask weird questions. Ask questions that you think somebody would

1230
01:06:56,600 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 2: be interested in hearing. The answer from don't waste your

1231
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 2: time with stupid like pointless surface bullshit, Like you don't

1232
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 2: have time. You don't have time either as a person

1233
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 2: you're talking to. Think about the best possible question, the

1234
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,520
Speaker 2: most enlightening question you can ask before you get in

1235
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 2: front of somebody, and then ask that question. And if

1236
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 2: you are afraid to ask that question, ask that question first.

1237
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that means.

1238
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 2: It's the good one.

1239
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, before you forget it or talk yourself out

1240
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 1: of it in your head.

1241
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 2: Oh what else? What else? What else? Your personal integrity

1242
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 2: is everything. You lose that you lose your job. If

1243
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 2: you cannot be trusted, you should not be a journalist.

1244
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 1: Right, That's that's the thing you're holding onto, right, that's

1245
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: the thing that allows you to keep opening doors.

1246
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, don't be afraid of the future, like if

1247
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 2: you are, if you understand how to dissert truth from bullshit,

1248
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 2: you won't be employed. The only question is whether or

1249
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 2: not you could be employed and have a roof over

1250
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 2: your head. But like, there's there's a role for this,

1251
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 2: and society will find a way to make it happen.

1252
01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I believe that.

1253
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 2: I like it. I hope this has been useful to you.

1254
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 4: Oh, this has been amazing, Like, I feel like I've

1255
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 4: learned a bunch.

1256
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:04,040
Speaker 2: This is awesome.

1257
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: No, I think it's a really cool conversation. I think

1258
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 1: that it's a.

1259
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:10,560
Speaker 4: Good take on the trial too.

1260
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 1: Haven't been able to sit down and talk about those

1261
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: aspects of anybody like that before.

1262
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:14,919
Speaker 2: I'm glad.

1263
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 1: So, yeah, I appreciate that, lad.

1264
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 2: It was useful.

1265
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, that was awesome.

1266
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 6: Talking to Death is a production of Tenorfoot TV and

1267
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:27,559
Speaker 6: iHeart Podcasts, created and hosted by Payne Lindsay. For Tenderfoot TV,

1268
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 6: executive producers are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Co executive

1269
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 6: producer is Mike Rooney. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are

1270
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 6: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams. With original music by Makeup

1271
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:44,440
Speaker 6: and Vanity Set. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington,

1272
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 6: Sean Nerney, Dayton Cole, and Gustav Wilde for Cohedo. Production

1273
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:53,639
Speaker 6: support by Tracy Kaplan, Mara Davis, and Trevor Young. Mixing

1274
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 6: and mastering by Cooper Skinner and Dayton Cole. Our cover

1275
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 6: art was created by Rob Sheridan. Check out our website

1276
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:08,680
Speaker 6: Talking to Death podcast dot com.

1277
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. To this episode of Talking to Death.

1278
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 1: This series is released weekly absolutely free, but if you

1279
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 1: want ad free listening and exclusive bonuses, you can subscribe

1280
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 1: to tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts or go to tenderfootplus

1281
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:26,519
Speaker 1: dot com