1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised, Hi, listeners, 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: I am so excited to be here today talking to 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: the brilliant historian Helen Caster, whose new book The Eagle 5 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: and the Heart, The Tragedy of Richard the Second and 6 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: Henry the Fourth, is out October fifteenth. Helen, thank you 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: so much for joining me. 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 9 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: Now, I have to confess, Richard the Second is one 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: of those kings I sort of gloss over in my histories. 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: I was familiar, obviously with the fact that Shakespeare wrote 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: to play about him, but I was less familiar with 13 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: who he was as a king. So can you talk 14 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: just a little broadly about how Richard the Second became 15 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: king as a child, and then what his legacy is 16 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: a little bit. 17 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: I can certainly try. One of the things I've learned 18 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: in the course of writing this book is that I 19 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: often have to explain to start with that he's not 20 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: rich the lion heart and nor is he the king 21 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: in the car park. He's the one in between. He 22 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 2: became king in thirteen seventy seven, at the age of ten, 23 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: we're in that very tumultuous period, the fourteenth century, when 24 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 2: what we know is the one hundred Years War between 25 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: England and France has already been going on for nearly 26 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 2: forty years. But when Richard comes to the throne, the 27 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: problem for England is that the crown skips a generation. 28 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 2: So he is the grandson of the Great King, Edward 29 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: the Third, the one who has started the one hundred 30 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: Years War between England and France, who is a great warrior, 31 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: the great Lion of England, one of the best medieval 32 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 2: kings England had. And Edward's son was the Black Prince, 33 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: another military hero, the man who won at Cressy and 34 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,639 Speaker 2: Poitier and all these great battles. But the Black Prince 35 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: died young in thirteen seventy six, and Edward the Third 36 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: died quite old in thirteen seventy seven, leaving the throne 37 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 2: to this ten year old boy. So this is a 38 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,399 Speaker 2: moment of crisis for England, really, and the crisis only 39 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 2: really develops and gets worse as Richard grows up, because 40 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 2: it turns out that he has completely misunderstood what being 41 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 2: a king is all about. He thinks it's all about 42 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: the rights that he's been given by God, and he 43 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 2: doesn't see that those rights come with responsibilities to his people, 44 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: and so he ends up getting in the end, getting 45 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 2: deposed by his first cousin, Henry of Bollingbrooke, who takes 46 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 2: the throne to become Henry the Fourth. 47 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: And in Richard's defense, I imagine it would be fairly 48 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: difficult to grow up knowing that you're about to become king, 49 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: becoming King of England at ten years old, and not 50 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: letting it get to your head a little bit. 51 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: It's impossible, particularly when we remember that he's never seen 52 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: the job being done properly. If he's only ten when 53 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 2: he becomes king, then for the whole of his childhood 54 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: so far, his grandfather's been aging getting iller, and his father, 55 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 2: the Black Prince, has a chronic illness in the last 56 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: years of his life. So Richard has never seen what 57 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 2: this job looks like in real time. And at the 58 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 2: same time, he's been told he's unique, he's special. The 59 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: powers of the king are given by God, that's what 60 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 2: everybody believes. But he is brought into Parliament just after 61 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 2: his tenth birthday. His father's already dead, his grandfather is ill, 62 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: and is going to be dead in six months, and 63 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: he's brought in and described in front of his own 64 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 2: face as England's messiah. Oh gosh, yeah, and that the 65 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: royal ministers do that in order to try and reassure 66 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 2: Parliament that they're in safe hands. Everything's going to be fine. Look, 67 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 2: King Edward has sent his grandson just as God sent 68 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: Christ to the world. But everyone there knows it's rhetoric, 69 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: apart from Richard. He's ten and he believes it. 70 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: Of course, even though he becomes king at ten, I 71 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: imagine he has a lot of adult uncles who probably 72 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: want to actually seize power. What do those uncles look like. 73 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: It's an interesting question whether or not they want to 74 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: seize power. They certainly know they've got to fill in 75 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 2: until the king is old enough to rule for himself. 76 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: And it's a difficult one to assess because they are 77 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 2: very ambitious, very proud, very powerful men. But they're not 78 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: trying to be king in Richard's place. That's what he 79 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: thinks they're trying to do. But in fact, if we 80 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 2: look at someone like John of Gaunt, which is obviously 81 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: a big name in medieval English history, but John of 82 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: Gaunt is Richard's oldest surviving uncle, and he's the one 83 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 2: who is trying to keep everything going until Richard is 84 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: old enough to rule for himself, and he's hated for 85 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 2: doing it. Everyone suspects that Gaunt is trying to take over, 86 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: and in fact, I think he's just really trying to 87 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: keep the plate spinning, trying to stop the war spiraling 88 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 2: out of control. He's doing a very difficult job in 89 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: very difficult circumstances, not helped by his two younger brothers. 90 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 2: At Richard's other uncles, the middle one, Edmund de Blangley, 91 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: who becomes Duke of York, absolute waste of space, just 92 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 2: you know, you can't give him any job to do 93 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: because it won't get done properly. And then the youngest one, 94 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: Thomas of Woodstock, who becomes Duke of Gloucester. Well, his 95 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 2: nose is out of joint right from the very beginning, 96 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 2: because he's sort of stuck between generations. He's only twelve 97 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: years older than Richard, and he's never been given the 98 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: power and the resources that he really thinks he ought 99 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 2: to have. He was the youngest of Edward the Third's children, 100 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 2: and so he is resentful. He's on the Margins. He 101 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 2: thinks everyone should listen to him, and no one really does, 102 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 2: certainly not as much as he thinks they ought to. 103 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: Well, that's a great transition, because Thomas has a slightly 104 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: unfortunate end. Can we fast forward a little bit and 105 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about what happened to Thomas, 106 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: Duke of Gloucester. 107 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: We certainly can. Thomas Duke of Gloucester, Thomas of Woodstock had, 108 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 2: whenever the opportunity arose, put himself forward as the leader 109 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: of what we would probably call the opposition to Richard. 110 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: As Richard grows up, Gaunt is the uncle who's always 111 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,119 Speaker 2: trying to make things work, make things smooth, as smooth 112 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 2: as they possibly can be in these very difficult circumstances. 113 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: But in the late thirteen eighties, a crisis erupts. Gaunt 114 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: has gone away to fight abroad. There's a terrible crisis 115 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: in the war, and Thomas of Woodstock is the one 116 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 2: trying to get Richard to focus on it. Richard sees 117 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 2: this as appalling insolence, and it spirals into a horrible 118 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: confrontation in which Woodstock leads the charge to remove and 119 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: destroy the people immediately around Richard Richard's favorites if you like, 120 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 2: because Woodstock actually really wants to get it Richard. But 121 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 2: you can't take down the king without everything falling apart. 122 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 2: This is all smoothed over eventually, but during the thirteen nineties, 123 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: Richard and Thomas of Woodstock never see eye to I. 124 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 2: Richard is trying to make peace with France, Thomas of 125 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 2: Woodstock thinks they ought to be fighting, and the memory 126 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 2: of this terrible crisis in the late thirteen eighties has 127 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 2: never gone away. So when Richard gets his chance, and 128 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot that's going on. But Richard, 129 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: we can see, has sort of been biding his time 130 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: and waiting to see if he would face more opposition 131 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: from Woodstock. And at the moment when he thinks he 132 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,559 Speaker 2: is that Thomas of Woodstock is plotting against him again, 133 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: he decides he's going to destroy him, and in thirteen 134 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 2: ninety seven he arrests him suddenly overnight, literally overnight. He 135 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 2: rides through the night to Woodstock's home in Essex with 136 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 2: a detachment of armed men, takes him into custody, dispatches 137 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: him to Calais, which belongs to England. It's a garrison 138 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 2: town in northern France, England's main stronghold on the continent, 139 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: and he sends him to prison there and he's going 140 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 2: to put him on trial for treason. But when the 141 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: trial starts in Parliament, the call goes out to Woodstock's 142 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: jailor bring Thomas of Woodstock, Duke of Glocester, into Parliament. 143 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 2: And the man who's been given the task of being 144 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 2: in charge of guarding him comes to Parliament and says, 145 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: I can't bring the Duke of Gloucester in because he's dead. 146 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 2: Oh now, what has happened. What has happened? Gloucester has 147 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: died in his prison at Calais, and at that point 148 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 2: it's completely unexplained. There's a sort of shocked sign in Parliament, 149 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 2: and then well they agree that obviously he was a 150 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: traitor and all his land should be forfeit. But it 151 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 2: is not explained that the king's own uncle, the son 152 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 2: of the Great Edward the third, has mysteriously died behind 153 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: the walls of his prison. And in fact it doesn't 154 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 2: get explained for another two years, two years of terrible 155 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 2: crisis in England, two years that result in Richard's deposition, 156 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: not least because he's set about destroying many of the 157 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 2: great nobles of England in exactly the way he's done 158 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 2: to Woodstock. 159 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: So when and how does it come out exactly what 160 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: happened to Woodstock? 161 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: When Richard is deposed in thirteen ninety nine by his 162 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 2: cousin Henry of Bolingbrooke, whom Richard has tried to destroy 163 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 2: in a differently imaginative way. Henry has been embroiled in 164 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 2: an argument with another nobleman about whether one or both 165 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 2: of them are traitors. Richard says they have to fight 166 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: a duel. Then he stops the duel, he banishes them, 167 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 2: and then says Henry can't inherit his father's lands. It's 168 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 2: a whole terrible crisis. Henry comes back, takes the throne 169 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 2: England rallies to his banner, and in parliament in thirteen 170 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 2: ninety nine, the same parliament that is sorting out how 171 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 2: to depose the king and make a new king. I mean, 172 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 2: it's a crisis on a scale that England hasn't seen 173 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: for ever, or certainly not since a different kind of deposition, 174 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 2: the Norman Conquest in ten sixty six. Various questions are 175 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 2: asked and witnesses are brought into Parliament, and one witness 176 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 2: is a man called William Baggot, who has served Richard, 177 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 2: and he is asked what happened to Thomas of Woodstock? 178 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 2: Do you who of Gloucester? And William Baggott says out 179 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 2: loud in public for the first time, Thomas of Woodstock 180 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: was murdered. He was murdered in Calais, and he was 181 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 2: murdered on the orders of King Richard. And he then says, 182 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 2: if you want to know more, there's a man in 183 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 2: prison in London who was a valet called John Hall. 184 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: Bring him in and he'll tell you everything. So the 185 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 2: poor wretched man John Hall is dragged into Parliament and 186 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 2: made to tell what he knows. And what he knows 187 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 2: is he says, I was a servant of Thomas Mowbray, 188 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: the man who was in charge of Calais Garrison and 189 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 2: in charge of Woodstock, when he was a prisoner, and 190 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: I got an order from my Lord in the middle 191 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 2: of the night get out of bed and come to 192 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 2: this particular inn in Calais. And when he got there 193 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 2: he found that Thomas of Woodstock had been brought there 194 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 2: out of his prison, and there was a collection of 195 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 2: servants of Richard and Mowbray and another nobleman there, and 196 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 2: Thomas of Woodstock, the King's uncle, the Duke of Gloucester, 197 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 2: was given a few minutes to make his last confession 198 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 2: of his sins, and then he was made to lie 199 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 2: down on a bed in this room at an inn 200 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: in Calais, and a feather mattress was put on top 201 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 2: of him and it was held down over his face 202 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 2: until he suffocated to death brutal. 203 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: And so what I find interesting is it wasn't this 204 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: death that sort of propagandized people into wanting to overthrow 205 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: Richard the Second. It was just sort of an additional detail. 206 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: The moves to overthrow Richard the Second were already happening. 207 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 2: The information about the detail of it came out in 208 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 2: public at this point, And you're absolutely right that it's 209 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 2: part of the process of justifying and explaining the deposition 210 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: of Richard the problem two years earlier, when it was 211 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 2: announced that Woodstock had died, but not how is that 212 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 2: rumors were flying. Calais a leaky place you can't keep 213 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 2: and certainly for a death that a lot of people 214 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: have been involved in, this isn't one blade in a 215 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 2: dark alley and only one person that knows what's happened. 216 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: You know, a whole number of men have been involved 217 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 2: in this. But in thirteen ninety seven, when it's announced 218 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 2: that Woodstock has died in a parliament controlled by Richard, 219 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 2: this is a context where another great nobleman, the Earl 220 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: of Arundel, has just been tried as a traitor and beheaded. 221 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 2: The Parliament itself is meeting in a temporary building because 222 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: there's building work going on in Westminster, so they're meeting 223 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 2: essentially in a big tent, and Richard has a personal army, 224 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 2: a personal bodyguard that he has just recruited hundreds of archers, 225 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: and he has stationed a number of them around the 226 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 2: sides of this tent, facing inwards with their bows in 227 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 2: their hand. So it's a brave man who will speak 228 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 2: up at that point, say hold on what's happened to 229 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 2: Thomas Woodstock, Dug of Gloucester. It's a brave man who 230 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 2: will say anything at all against a king who is 231 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 2: beginning to show his true colors, who's beginning to give 232 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 2: very clear signs that he is going to rule by 233 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 2: military force with an iron fist, and that anyone who 234 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 2: resists in any way, might go the same way as 235 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: the Earl of Arundel or Thomas of Woodstock, who has 236 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 2: now died. So I think it's not that nobody knows anything. 237 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 2: It's that Richard is showing his true colors as a 238 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: tyrant rather than a good king, and it's going to 239 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 2: take a couple of years for the full implications of 240 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 2: that to come out and for a leader to show themselves, 241 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 2: Henry Bollingbrook to show themselves as a leader. We also 242 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: have to remember Thomas Woodstock hade himself pretty unpopular over 243 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 2: the previous few years, So if you're going to stick 244 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: your neck out for anyone in the first instance, you 245 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 2: might not choose Thomas of Woodstock to do it. 246 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it's incredible that someone was brave enough to 247 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: stand up to this is evidence that the king is 248 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: being a violent tyrant, and standing up to him, you 249 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: are very much risking your own quite literally neck you are. 250 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 2: And I think, but I think it's interesting to show 251 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 2: the kind of stages by which a regime like this 252 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 2: can and reveal itself, and then the stages by which 253 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 2: resistance can start to emerge. Because in thirteen ninety seven, 254 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 2: when Woodstock's death was first announced in Parliament. Richard had 255 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 2: been quite careful for a few years. He'd played his 256 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 2: cards pretty well up to that point. He'd, for instance, 257 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 2: made peace with France, not a permanent piece, that was 258 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 2: too difficult to do, but he'd made a thirty year 259 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 2: truce with France by arranging a marriage alliance for himself 260 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 2: at the age of twenty nine, to the six year 261 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: old daughter of the King of France. And that meant 262 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 2: that a lot of the pressures on his government had 263 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: been sort of reduced or released. He'd got an enormous 264 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 2: amount of money as the dowry with this little girl, 265 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: and the immediate pressure of the war, which Thomas of 266 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 2: Woodstock had been going on and on and on about, 267 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: was sort of lessened. And so at the point when 268 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 2: he arrested Thomas of Woodstock, he made out initially that 269 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 2: Woodstock was plotting new treasons against him, and I think 270 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 2: everyone everyone sort of said, well, you know, not so implausible. 271 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 2: He's done some pretty out there things before. Okay, we'll 272 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: give the king the benefit of the doubt. We'll wait 273 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 2: and see what terrible crimes Woodstock has committed. But three 274 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 2: months later, when Parliament actually meets it turns out there 275 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 2: are no new crimes. There are only the old crimes 276 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: from ten years earlier, for which Woodstock has already explicitly 277 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 2: been pardoned. He literally has a sort of charterer from 278 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 2: the King saying, don't worry, that's all in the past. 279 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 2: Everyone's forgiven for what they've done, and Richard is now saying, well, 280 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 2: I've changed my mind. I'm not going to pardon people 281 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 2: for things ten years ago. So suddenly the danger is 282 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 2: there for anyone who might have stepped out of line 283 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 2: in the past in a way the King now doesn't like. 284 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 2: So you've then got to make very careful calculations about 285 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: what have I done? What could I do? Do I 286 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 2: need to try to keep my head down and hope 287 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 2: the King doesn't notice me, or what point am I 288 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 2: going to have to stand up and be counted? 289 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: And I imagine how that lack of order was a 290 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: major misstep on Richard the Second's part, because not only 291 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: was he murdering the son of a king, someone who 292 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: people might have thought would have been protected by the system, 293 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: but he's showing that the system itself can be bent 294 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: to his will, which I imagine made nobles very very nervous. 295 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 2: That's exactly the problem. It made Nobl's very nervous, and eventually, 296 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 2: as the full horror reveals itself, it makes everyone in 297 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 2: the country very nervous because the whole contract of a government, 298 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 2: if you like, is we will impose laws on everyone, 299 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 2: and those laws will keep everyone safe. So you know, you, 300 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 2: the people of England, buy into the fact that you 301 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 2: are ruled by the king in order to know that, yes, 302 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: you might not be able to break the law, but 303 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: neither can anyone else, you know, in theory, so you 304 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 2: are safe. Everyone is safe because you all know what 305 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 2: the rules are. But Richard has failed to understand that. 306 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: He thinks he can impose whatever laws he likes on 307 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 2: his own subjects, and he is outside the law, so 308 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 2: he can do whatever he wants. He thinks he's going 309 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 2: to be secure as king on his golden throne if 310 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 2: he makes everyone else in his kingdom insecure. 311 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: Parliament did call him Jesus Christ. 312 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 2: Himself exactly all of twenty years earlier, and he's spent 313 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 2: twenty years feeling really thwarted because it's turned out he 314 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 2: can't just do what he likes. You know. At an 315 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 2: earlier stage in the war with France. When France was 316 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 2: threatening invasion, there'd been a literally a French armada waiting 317 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 2: to set sail to invade England. And when another parliament 318 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 2: tried to get Thomas and Woodstock in fact taking the 319 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 2: lead in this, trying to get him to focus on 320 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 2: that danger, he'd said, how dare you My subjects are 321 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 2: being so insolent towards me, I'm going to ask my 322 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 2: cousin the King of France for help against you. And 323 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 2: the level of sort of delusion of not understanding that 324 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 2: if France is about to invade, then asking your cousin 325 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 2: the King of France for help against your own subjects 326 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 2: is not the thing you should be doing as King 327 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 2: of England. It's such a fundamental misunderstanding of what the 328 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 2: power of a government, a royal government in this case, 329 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 2: should be used for. 330 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: Well, let's transition on that. You had mentioned his second 331 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: marriage to the six year old daughter of the King 332 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: of France. Richard had been married once before to Anna 333 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: of Bohemia. She dies what leads to his decision to 334 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: marry a a six year old girl? And was there 335 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: a conversation obviously the you know, to modern ears that 336 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: sounds ludicrous but what was the conversation around a twenty 337 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: something I imagine marrying a six year old at that time. 338 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 2: The big picture is the war with France, which has 339 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 2: been going on for decades by this point. I mean 340 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 2: it's been going on since thirteen forty and we're now 341 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 2: in thirty ninety five at the point that the negotiations start. 342 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 2: So Richard has wanted peace for a long time. He 343 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 2: doesn't like fighting, he doesn't like the pressure he comes 344 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 2: under at home over money and campaigns. He wants some 345 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 2: form of peace, and the death of his first wife 346 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 2: means he has a new bargaining chip. He has his 347 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 2: own hand in marriage. And so the French say, would 348 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 2: you like a French bride? Problem being, Richard is only 349 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 2: going to accept a French bride of the right kind 350 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 2: of status. And the King of France's children are all 351 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 2: very young. But Richard doesn't see that as a problem. 352 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 2: And that's the fact that he has no children. Because 353 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 2: you'd think, as you're saying that a man in his 354 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 2: mid going on into late twenties, who has no direct 355 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 2: air is looking for a new wife. He might be 356 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 2: looking for someone around his own age, or at least 357 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 2: some kind of adult. Richard doesn't seem bothered by that 358 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: at all. It's not that I mean, we shouldn't. Obviously, 359 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 2: it looks terrible to us. But it's not that he 360 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 2: wants to live with a six year old as his 361 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 2: wife in every sense of every sense of the word. 362 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 2: But what he doesn't seem at all bothered by is 363 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 2: the idea of having children in the foreseeable future. Richard 364 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 2: is so far the center of his own universe that 365 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 2: I think he doesn't really like to think about a 366 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 2: future in which he is not the beating heart of 367 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 2: the entire body politics. So he's going to put off 368 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 2: the idea of an air or someone who might you know. 369 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 2: He seems to see the idea of having an air 370 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 2: as a sort of threat or a challenge, a rival. 371 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 2: He wants it to be all about himself. And so 372 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 2: when his uncle Thomas of Woodstock says to him, not 373 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 2: a great idea to marry someone so young. Why don't 374 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 2: you marry my twelve year old daughter. That would be 375 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 2: far more suitable. 376 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: If the waiting period for an air is going to 377 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: be much shorter. 378 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 2: Exactly, And of course Thomas Woodstock has his own agenda. 379 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 2: He thinks it's a great idea for his daughter to 380 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 2: become queen. Richard says, no, no, no, no, no, it's great. 381 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 2: She's five going on six. I will be able to 382 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 2: bring her up in English ways and in the forms 383 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 2: of time. There's no rush, but I will have an 384 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 2: air in due course. We're going to do what I want, 385 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 2: and what he's wanted for a very long time is 386 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 2: to have a glorious face to face summit meeting with 387 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 2: his French counterpart, the glorious King of France. And that's 388 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 2: what they arrange in thirteen ninety six. If you imagine 389 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 2: the most lavish combination between the biggest royal wedding you 390 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 2: can imagine and the most important political summit meeting, all 391 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 2: held literally on the spot of the Field of the 392 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 2: Cloth of Gold, which of course hasn't happened yet. But 393 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 2: this is the Middle Ages version of the Field of 394 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 2: the Cloth of Gold in October thirteen ninety six. 395 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: What sort of festivities and riches can we imagine during 396 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: this summit? 397 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: We've got to imagine ourselves in the rather bleak flatlands 398 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 2: just south of Calais. It's a region that's been fought 399 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 2: over for decades. The Battle of Cresse has been fought 400 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 2: near there. The Battle of Agincrps will be fought near 401 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 2: there in the following century. So it's not a prepossessing 402 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 2: beautiful place, but the French and the English make it 403 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 2: beautiful by building essentially two small towns out of fabric, 404 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 2: two encampments of the most beautiful pavilions made out of 405 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 2: cloth of gold rich colours, one hundred and twenty on 406 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 2: each side, surrounded by a palisade, and at their gates. 407 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 2: The French have built one super pavilion, which in their 408 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 2: case is huge and square, and on the English side 409 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 2: there is a tall round tower of a pavilion. And 410 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 2: each encampment is going to be filled by a court, 411 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 2: the English court on one side, the French court on 412 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:31,719 Speaker 2: the other, and the security and the protocol for this meeting. 413 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: You have to read it to imagine, really, because the 414 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 2: detail is so extraordinary. We need to imagine the medieval 415 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 2: version of the secret services sweeping the area for weeks 416 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 2: beforehand trade is stopped, the carriage of weapons is stopped, 417 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 2: everyone is locked down in the towns nearby. And then 418 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 2: the distance between these two encampments is measured to the 419 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 2: inch and the exact halfway point is marked with a stake, 420 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 2: so that when the two courts, the kings at their 421 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 2: head emerge from these encampments, neither king will walk a 422 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 2: single inch further than the other one to the point 423 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 2: at which they're going to meet. And that is in 424 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 2: fact what happens on Friday, the twenty seventh of October 425 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 2: thirteen ninety six. These great processions emerge from these these 426 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 2: new towns of tents that have sprung up on this 427 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 2: sort of now hallowed ground. Each king is accompanied by 428 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 2: his royal uncle's other lavishly dressed nobles, and four hundred 429 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 2: knights and esquires which act as a bodyguard. Except they've 430 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 2: also all been given very clear instructions, and it's checked 431 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 2: to the nth degree that they must only carry one 432 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 2: dagger or one sword each. So it's that it kind 433 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 2: of to make sure there are no surprises, no nasty surprises. 434 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: Each king is protected, but in an exactly equal way 435 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 2: for this amazing moment when they will finally meet. Bearing 436 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 2: in mind that the last time a King of France 437 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 2: and a King of England met it was because the 438 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 2: King of France, King Charles's grandfather had been captured by 439 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 2: the King of England, Richard's grandfather. So this is a 440 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 2: historic moment when peace replaces war. 441 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: And I do find the one portrait that I've seen 442 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: on the internet of Richard marrying little Isabella is almost 443 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: comical because he's so much bigger and like leaning down, 444 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: it looks like to kiss around the cheek. But just 445 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: for modern listeners, it's not as if you would have 446 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: consummated this marriage. 447 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely not. No, it's very clear to everyone. I mean, 448 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 2: royal marriages were consummated earlier than we might like to 449 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 2: think about happening. The age of consent technically, according to 450 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 2: the Church for a girl was twelve fourteen for a boy, 451 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 2: but usually royal marriages were left even a little bit 452 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 2: longer than that, to an age when it was less 453 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 2: dangers for a girl to potentially give birth, So we 454 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 2: might imagine usually fourteen or fifteen before a marriage was 455 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 2: consummated and a young queen was expected to carry a child. 456 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 2: But in this case it's the alliance that she represents. 457 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 2: But there are so many elements to all this ceremonial 458 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 2: that are comical and sometimes then verging on heartbreaking. Even 459 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 2: the two men meeting, which they do first on the 460 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 2: first two days, the Friday and the Saturday, have their 461 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 2: comical stroke poignant moments. Because Richard is twenty nine, he's 462 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 2: been looking forward to this for a very long time. 463 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 2: And he appears lavishly and magnificently dressed, we're told, in 464 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 2: red velvet or red velvet sweeping royal gown on the 465 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 2: first day, laden with jewels. But his counterpart, his new 466 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 2: father in law, who's two years younger than him, by 467 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 2: the way, he's twenty seven, is a much so figure 468 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,719 Speaker 2: because Charles the sixth of France has not been well 469 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 2: for the last four years. Four years earlier, he'd had 470 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 2: a psychotic breakdown one day as he was riding out 471 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 2: on campaign with his army, he'd lost all sense of 472 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 2: who he was, where he was. He'd set about him 473 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 2: with his sword killed, several of his servants had to 474 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 2: be restrained, and ever since then he's had periodic bouts 475 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 2: of madness. Sometimes he doesn't know who he is. He 476 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: thinks he's made of glass. He's not a well man. 477 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 2: So this summit meeting has been scheduled and very carefully 478 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 2: organized in a period where he's not ranting and raving. 479 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 2: He does know who he is. But he's a very 480 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 2: fragile figure, and he's having to be supported by his 481 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 2: royal uncles, particularly the Dukes of Burgundy and Berry. And 482 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 2: for instance, the English note slightly critically that King Charles 483 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 2: wears the same outfit every single day. They think is 484 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 2: a little bit inelegant compared to their king, who is 485 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 2: wearing a brand new, fashionable outfit every single time you 486 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 2: see him. But the French say, oh, well, this summit 487 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 2: meeting is all about God's peace, and it's not about 488 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,719 Speaker 2: the clothes. It's about the content, you know. So there 489 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 2: are difficulties here, enormous ceremonial lavish gifts being exchanged every 490 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 2: time they meet. You know, you can't have a conversation 491 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 2: without some gold plate or a pouch of jewels being 492 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 2: handed in each direction. They walk hand in hand, they 493 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 2: have dinner in the English tent. They sit on golden 494 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 2: thrones under golden canopies in the French tent to agree 495 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 2: the peace treaty that's already been negotiated. They're not doing 496 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 2: anything like hard work at this point, but they are 497 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 2: going through an elaborate choreography of a diplomatic dance that's 498 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 2: been choreographed to the nth degree. And finally, finally on 499 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 2: the Monday, after a difficult Sunday, because there's been an 500 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 2: enormous storm on the Saturday night, wind and rain and 501 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 2: a torrential downpour, and half the French camp has been 502 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 2: flattened and the English camp has been damaged. And of 503 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 2: course the initial thought is does God disapprove? But no, no, no, no, 504 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 2: They quickly find another solution. The devil is angry that 505 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 2: peace is being made, so they spend Sunday hastily repairing everything. 506 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 2: And then on Monday, little Isabella, poor little Isabella, who's six, 507 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 2: coming up to her seventh birthday, is brought in to 508 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 2: meet her new husband. And we're told that Richard on 509 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 2: this day is wearing a glorious blue and gold gown, 510 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 2: which are the royal colors of France, and little Isabella 511 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 2: is brought in in a matching gown of blue covered 512 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 2: in gold Fleur de lys. She's got a little crown 513 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 2: of golden pearls on her head, and the description is 514 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 2: so detail you can just imagine her little face. She's 515 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 2: trying to hold herself together. The account says that she 516 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 2: acquitted herself with wonderful dignity, and only cried when her 517 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 2: father and her uncle and her great uncles gave her 518 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 2: a caper a hug in a very formal way as 519 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 2: she was about to be handed over to the English ladies. 520 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 2: It's heartbreaking when you think about it. And we then 521 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 2: get the detail in the sort of again formal accounts 522 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 2: of everything that was brought with her to England, that 523 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 2: when they packed up her trousseau with all her glorious 524 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: gowns made of precious stuff and the jewels that she 525 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 2: brought with her, that she also brought her dolls with her. 526 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: She won't be in England for long, because it'll just 527 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: be a few years later that Richard the second is 528 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: deposed in favor of his first cousin, Henry Bolingbroke. 529 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 2: That's right, just three years later. 530 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to get a little bit into the 531 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: actual deposition, but just because I have to know what 532 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: happened to Isabella after Richard was imprisoned in no longer care. 533 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 2: I'm afraid the story cares on being heartbreaking Henry very much. 534 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 2: Of course, she was treated with enormous she was not harmed, 535 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 2: she was treated with enormous dignity. She's still the daughter 536 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 2: of the King of France. Henry wants to marry her 537 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 2: to one of his own young sons, but the French 538 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 2: won't have that and Isabella. In fact, the French send 539 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 2: an ambassador to see her to check on her well being, 540 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 2: and she says she has no greater desire in the 541 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 2: world than to see her parents and her siblings again, 542 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 2: so she is sent back to France. Eventually, it's all 543 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 2: quite tricky because Henry can't give her dowry back because 544 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 2: it's all been spent, and in fact then has to 545 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 2: spend a lot more holding a sort of reverse summit 546 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,959 Speaker 2: meeting all dressed in black, and another meeting in more 547 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 2: or less the same place with not quite equal but 548 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 2: almost equal magnificence to hand her back, and she is eventually, 549 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 2: a few years later married off again to her younger cousin, 550 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 2: the Duke of Orleans, whose father has just been murdered. 551 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 2: French politics is descending into chaos as well, but she 552 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 2: becomes the Duchess of Orleans, and then a couple of 553 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 2: years after that, at nineteen, she becomes pregnant and she 554 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 2: dies giving birth to her first child. It's not much 555 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 2: of her life. 556 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: No, that's a tragic story. I'm glad that she at 557 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: least got to come back to France, though that they 558 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:24,959 Speaker 1: didn't keep her in English. 559 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:30,239 Speaker 2: She did, she saw her family again and made at 560 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 2: least another marriage that kept her at the heart of 561 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 2: her family, rather than being sent off yet again to 562 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 2: another foreign court. I think perhaps the fact that we're 563 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 2: used to the fact that young royal brides were sent 564 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 2: off to make these grand diplomatic marriages, I think we 565 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 2: can guess we can lose sight of the human dimension sometimes, 566 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 2: these very young women sent to countries they'd never been 567 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 2: to to marry men they'd never met, with a handful 568 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: of servants who quite often would have to return home 569 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 2: soon after they arrived there. So it's an extraordinary fate 570 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 2: that these young women faced, and the ones who made 571 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 2: successes of it, I think we have to recognize the 572 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 2: scale of their achievement. 573 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: Absolutely. And now, just to wrap up the story of 574 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: Richard the Scond, I've always been under the impression that 575 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: Henry of bowling Brook that it was a fairly easy takeover. 576 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: Is that a correct impression. 577 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 2: By the time the takeover actually happens, Yes, you're absolutely right, 578 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 2: But of course it's the end of the long process 579 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 2: that we were talking about earlier. It's as though, you 580 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,760 Speaker 2: know that saying about how if you throw a frog 581 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 2: into boiling water, it will scream and die horribly. Know 582 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 2: that it's dying horribly. But if you put a frog 583 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 2: into cold water and heat it up gradually, it doesn't 584 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,439 Speaker 2: really know what's going on. In a sense, that's sort 585 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 2: of the story of the last two years of Richard's reign. 586 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 2: But what Henry does is he rescues the frog right 587 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 2: at the last minute. Because Henry has been exiled, and 588 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 2: Richard has promised him at the point when he goes 589 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:12,760 Speaker 2: into exile that anything he inherits while he's banished, which 590 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 2: he's been told is for the term of ten years, 591 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 2: he will be allowed to inherit. You know, the law 592 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 2: will take its course, his property rights will not be disturbed. 593 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 2: But when his father, John of Gaunt dies brokenhearted in 594 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 2: February thirteen ninety nine, the Duchy of Lancaster, John of 595 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 2: Gaunt's great noble inheritance, which is the most powerful, the biggest, richest, 596 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 2: and most powerful noble inheritance in the country, Richard just 597 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,399 Speaker 2: goes back on his word and says, no, Henry can't 598 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 2: inherit it. After all, I'm going to take it into 599 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 2: my own hands. And at that point Richard clearly feels safe. 600 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 2: Finally he believes he's destroyed his cousin's power. Henry's in exile, 601 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 2: he doesn't have his inheritance. Richard takes his private army 602 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 2: that he's been recruiting and goes off to Ireland, where 603 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 2: he's enjoyed a few years earlier. He's enjoyed going over 604 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 2: there and making the Gaelic chiefs kneel before him, and 605 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 2: he clearly fancies doing a bit of that again. So 606 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 2: he leaves his country undefended at exactly the point when 607 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 2: he has done the thing that has demonstrated to every 608 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 2: one of his subjects that if the most powerful nobleman 609 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 2: in the country isn't safe, they're not safe either. So Henry, 610 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 2: who's in exile in Paris at this point, decides he's 611 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 2: going to have to come back, and he sails for 612 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 2: England with a small number of devoted servants who've been 613 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 2: with him in exile. He doesn't have an army with him, 614 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 2: but he arrives on the shores of England, puts in 615 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 2: first on the south coast to drop off a few 616 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 2: very loyal servants who take a castle on the south 617 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 2: coast for him, and then he sails on to the 618 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 2: coast of Yorkshire, to a place called Ravenspur, and he 619 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 2: makes his way into England via the Lancastrian castles in 620 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 2: the north, these great strongholds. And what he discovers is 621 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 2: that England rallies to his banner. Everywhere he goes, more 622 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 2: men flock to him. No one is saying we must 623 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 2: stand up for good King Richard. In fact, they're saying, okay, 624 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 2: this looks like rescue. And that's where the name of 625 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 2: my book comes from, because Richard's been using the badge 626 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 2: of the White Heart. The one thing Richard knows how 627 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 2: to do is make a visual impact, and he's chosen 628 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 2: this beautiful badge of the White Heart, which all his 629 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 2: retainers and his private soldiers all wear. But in thirteen 630 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 2: ninety nine, when Henry comes back, poems written and they 631 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 2: say the Eagle Duke is coming to rescue us, using 632 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 2: a badge that Henry's father and his grandfather, Edward the 633 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 2: Third have used. The Eagle Duke will save us from 634 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 2: the crimes and the threat of the men of the 635 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 2: White heart that Richard has sent to visit such terror 636 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 2: upon us. And by the time Richard manages to scramble 637 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 2: his way back from Ireland, England's already lost. Henry, it's clear, 638 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 2: is going to be the next king. 639 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,399 Speaker 1: And he isn't suffocated by a mattress, but he does 640 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: meet an unfortunate. 641 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:20,720 Speaker 2: End he does. Henry's problem in coming to save England 642 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 2: is that he Henry is not the rightful heir. It's 643 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 2: not clear who is the rightful heir, but it's not 644 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 2: clear that Henry is the legitimate heir to Richard. He's 645 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 2: his first cousin, but he's not his son, he's not 646 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 2: his brother. So at the point where Parliament decides that yes, 647 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,439 Speaker 2: we must get rid of Richard, Richard is deposed. It's 648 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 2: all a bit of a fudge. Richard is made to abdicate, 649 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 2: then it's agreed that he should also be deposed, and 650 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 2: he's sent off into what Henry hopes will be oblivion 651 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,280 Speaker 2: in prison at Pontefract, which is one of these great 652 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 2: castles in the North, and Henry is acclaimed as king, 653 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 2: and there's a sort of we're not going to look 654 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,879 Speaker 2: too closely at quite how Henry has become king. But 655 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,839 Speaker 2: he's going to be crowned, and we all agree that 656 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:07,879 Speaker 2: good King Henry should be our king. 657 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: Oh and we all agree that, of course, you know, 658 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 1: even though there are grandchildren of Edward the third descended 659 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: from older sons, well, they had to descend from female lines, 660 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: or of course Henry are through men. They're coming up 661 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: with these. 662 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 2: Rules exactly, and they are, although they're also not saying 663 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 2: that out loud too much because the English claim to 664 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 2: the throne of France that still hasn't been given up. Okay, 665 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,360 Speaker 2: there's this thirty year truce in place, but we haven't 666 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 2: stopped claiming that the King of England is also the 667 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 2: King of France. That claim comes through a woman, so 668 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 2: you can't go too hard on the female line. Doesn't 669 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:50,359 Speaker 2: work in England, but equally absolutely right, those grandchildren through 670 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,800 Speaker 2: the female line, the Earls of March, the Mortimer Earls 671 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 2: of March. He's a little boy at this point, and 672 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 2: we've tried having a little boy before. Didn't work out 673 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 2: too well. It's not a solution to anybody's problems at 674 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 2: this point. So let's just say Henry has come back 675 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 2: and we all agree that he's king. That's more or 676 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 2: less what they say, and once he's crowned, you know, 677 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 2: then God has also approved. But three months later, in 678 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 2: New Year fourteen hundred, four of the noblemen who were 679 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 2: closest to Richard's regime, who've thrown in their lot with 680 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,240 Speaker 2: Henry because everybody's doing so. They've been there at Henry's coronation, 681 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 2: they've been there for his first parliament. But they're getting really, 682 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 2: really worried about what might happen to them. They decide 683 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,760 Speaker 2: to rebel just after New Year fourteen hundred. The revolt 684 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 2: is put down really quickly. They don't get anywhere near succeeding, 685 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 2: but it's a real shock to Henry's new system. He'd 686 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 2: been hoping that God would simply smile on him and 687 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,919 Speaker 2: then he could show that he was rightfully king by 688 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 2: being by offering England good government, and everyone would just 689 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 2: live happily. Ever after, once this alter has happened and 690 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 2: it's been put down, it's clear that it's too dangerous 691 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 2: to have an ex king hanging around the place. And 692 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 2: a few weeks later the news comes from Pontefract that 693 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 2: Richard has died, and rather like Thomas of Woodstock, who 694 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,319 Speaker 2: we talked about at the beginning. There is no explanation 695 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 2: of how he's died, but rumor has it, the word 696 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,360 Speaker 2: on the street has it that Richard has been starved 697 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 2: to death. So his body is displayed with suitable honor 698 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 2: on its journey down from Yorkshire down to London, so 699 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,400 Speaker 2: that everyone can see the king really is dead and 700 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,600 Speaker 2: he has no marks of violence on him. But however 701 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 2: it's happened. The King is dead, he's prayed for, he's 702 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,800 Speaker 2: shown in public, and then he's buried quietly at King's 703 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 2: Langley outside London. Henry doesn't want to put him in 704 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 2: the grand gilded tomb that Richard had already built for 705 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 2: himself at Westminster Abbey because the risk of that then 706 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 2: becoming a shrine and a sight of pilgrimage is too much, 707 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:04,240 Speaker 2: too much of a threat. 708 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 1: Absolutely well, it's a fascinating story and I feel like 709 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: an area of medieval history that people haven't focused on enough, 710 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 1: which is a shame, because so much happens. The Eagle 711 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: and the Heart, The Tragedy of Richard the Second and 712 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 1: Henry the Fourth is out October fifteenth. Helen, thank you 713 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: so so much for joining me and talking all this 714 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: through with me. 715 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,239 Speaker 2: It's an absolute pleasure, Danna, thank you so much for 716 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 2: having me. 717 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,279 Speaker 1: Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm and 718 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: Mild from Aaron Manky. Noble Blood is hosted by me 719 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:56,360 Speaker 1: Danish Worts, with additional writing and researching by Hannah Johnston, 720 00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: Hannah Zewick, Courtney Sender, Juliet Malon, and Arman Cassam. The 721 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,360 Speaker 1: show is edited and produced by Noahmy Griffin and rima 722 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:12,200 Speaker 1: il Kaali, with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive producers 723 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,880 Speaker 1: Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts 724 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 725 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.