WEBVTT - Trump Facebook Ban Upheld for Now 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovik. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.640 analysts in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.239 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.160 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.880 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:32.320 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. So US COVID nineteen cases 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:35.080 could see a sharp decline by July if nationwide vaccination 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:37.440 efforts continued to be successful. This was according to the 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.920 CDC President Biden, talking about children being vaccinated. Tim and 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:43.879 I covered that yesterday. Uh, and not only getting the 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.000 vaccine out to underserved communities here in the US, but 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:49.080 also around the world. Yeah, and we're also seeing companies 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.760 and businesses organizations start to do different things when it 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:53.640 comes to people who are vaccinated and not vaccinated. As 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.240 we mentioned just a few minutes ago, baseball stadiums here 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:58.080 in New York City are going to segregate those who 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:00.440 have and have not been vaccinated? Right? Or figure it out? 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:02.080 All right? So and kind of in a world that 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:04.080 maybe there's gonna be a couple of different tracks. Let's 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:05.759 get to it though, with our daily check on COVID 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:07.800 coming to us a few days earlier this week, Dr 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.680 Ian LUs Bader, clinical Professor of Medicine at n y 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.360 U Land, going on the phone in New York City. Ian, 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.360 good to have you back with us. How are you good? 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:18.920 Always your pleasure, Carol and Tim hope you guys are well. 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.640 We're doing okay, We're feeling I think optimistic, it's safe 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:24.160 to say, right, Tim, Yeah, we are. You know, it's 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.679 funny we just had this conversation before we came to 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:30.760 Dr LUs Bader about comfort and doing things that we 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:34.680 did before the pandemic. And you know, I have been 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.000 driving into work, but I want to start taking the 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.680 subway again, and I'm wondering how we should feel about 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.120 those types of things. Wearing a mask, of course, and 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.600 being two weeks out from that second shot. Sure, I 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.240 think you should feel more confident. I've been on the 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:53.800 subway and watched it go from literally deserted, maybe a 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:57.280 few homeless people to really quite crowded. So you do 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:00.680 need to be a little prepared for possible having people 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.320 sitting next to you a little under six ft, So 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:07.840 do not expect ideal circumstances, whether it's at the ballfield 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.360 or at the restaurant. But I do think if people 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.880 have had their two vaccines, uh, and they've waited two weeks, 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.880 based on what we're seeing, it's much more reassuring. And 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:21.280 I think America, unlike other parts of the world, should 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.520 really buy the summer, really be able to return to 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:28.680 a much more normal lifestyle. Again, barring any new changes 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:32.560 such as appearance of variants that are resistant and so forth. 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.800 We've really done a pretty good job at getting towards 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.240 We're not quite at herd immunity, but we're certainly getting 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.679 very close to it, and I think that it's all 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.640 really according to plan and going fairly well. How do 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.839 you getting kids vaccinated? We heard the President talk about that, 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.880 waiting for FDA approval on that, But how do you 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:55.680 getting kids vaccinated? Dr les Bader get us towards that 0:02:55.760 --> 0:03:00.280 hurt immunity. Well, I think getting kids vaccinated still a 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:04.600 lot of sense, you know, certainly initially, Uh, we want 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:08.920 to wait for safety data. But kids get many vaccines momps, measles, rebella, 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.720 appatitis B long before they're going to be exposed to it. 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:15.680 And even though kids generally do very well, in other words, 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.440 if they do get COVID, they bounce back very well, 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:23.520 we are seeing some evidence that maybe early COVID exposure 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.600 may predisposed to diabetes or other longer term problems that 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.680 we are not you know, that are just beginning to appear. 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.800 So I think not only um, does vaccinating children make 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.520 sense to reduce transmission to older adults, but it may 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:42.080 protect the kids from further complications from COVID nineteen that 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.320 we're just beginning to see on the horizon. Do you 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.920 expect that a vaccine will be approved for children ages 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.640 two and up by the end of this year. I 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.680 think by the end of this year that's that's quite likely. 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:59.280 I think that is reasonable. Uh. You know, again, it's 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.720 not an absolute rush, because it's not like kids are 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.160 the most vulnerable. But I think we want to wait 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.040 for the studies and safety data. But I do think 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:09.760 by the end of the year that should be out 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:11.880 and I think it will become at least for the 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:16.200 next two years, part of a routine um vaccination schedule, 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.760 you know, until we really have eliminated worldwide the pandemic, 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.919 which may take more than a year or two to 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.280 work its way through. Unfortunately. So new US guidance for 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.760 children at summer camps is quote stringent, and we heard 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.400 that from Anthony Faucci, of course, the top White House 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.240 medical adviser, saying today suggesting rules maybe loosened as new 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:36.719 data comes in. Would you send kids to summer camp? 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.320 Would you send your kids to summer camp or if 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:43.039 they were of that age today, you know, I would 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:48.159 feel happier if they were vaccinated. UM. I think there's 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:53.840 a certain benefit to exercise, fresh air, outdoor activities, and 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:56.000 I think that can be done in a safe way. 0:04:56.040 --> 0:05:00.000 And I think the benefits of school and camp uh 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:04.080 in a safe environment far outweigh the potential low risk 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.599 of a significant complication from COVID. So I think I'm balanced. 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:12.120 Everything's a risk, but I think getting kids out and 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:16.400 socially interacting and learning and all of those benefits I 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.560 think far outweigh the very small risk of actually getting 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:21.880 COVID over the summer one are the biggest questions that 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:25.680 you're getting from patients right now about what they can 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.240 and can do in the rest of the year for 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:32.120 the summer. You know. Unfortunately, there's been a lot of 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:37.040 conflicting data, and I think people really are confused about, uh, 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.160 you know, do they have to wear masks, do they 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.640 not wear masks? Um And so when I tell my patients, 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.719 may not do what everyone tells their patients. I certainly 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:49.040 feel that outdoors there's really a minimal risk. Have you've 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:52.920 been vaccinated, There is no reason to wear a mask outside. 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.599 I mean, we do see that influenza and other respiratory 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.360 diseases are much lower this year, so there is some 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.239 rational and if you want to wear a mask, that's fine, 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.200 but there's really no evidence that you're going to get 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:08.719 COVID if you're socializing, you know, not too close you know, outdoors. 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.880 I think indoors, if it's your group and your pot 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.320 and people have been vaccinated, I also think that's a 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:19.320 relatively safe environment. And I think of corporations, for example, 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.600 say you know, if you can prove you've been vaccinated, 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.920 come back to the office. Many people miss the office socially, 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.080 but also from a productivity point of view. I also 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.440 understand people reluctant to go back, and really what I 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.279 tell them is, you may be reluctant, but if you've 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.719 been vaccinated, there's no scientific evidence what you cannot go 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:40.440 back to the office. Let's get right back to it 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:42.800 with Dr Ian LUs Beta, clinical professor of medicine at 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:44.920 and Yu Lango in a medical center. He joins us 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.200 on the phone from New York City. Dr LUs better 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.440 to the point of what Charlie was talking about the 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:51.719 relationship that companies have with their workers, to what extent 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.800 they play in the inoculation process. And a survey from 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.600 April by Arizona State University and the Rockefeller Foundation found 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.200 that six companies in North America planned offer vaccine incentives 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:05.159 to workers, would inoculate workers at company facilities, but also 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:10.440 that of these companies would require vaccinations for workers. UM 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.360 a third of the companies that should not plan to 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:16.200 encourage vaccines but wouldn't require them. From your perspective, which 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:19.600 is the right move here? Is it making it mandatory? 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:23.360 Is it offering incentives? What do you think? I like 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:28.680 the incentive approach, you know, I think making anything mandatory, UM, 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:32.640 that is really certainly that's not FDA approved, would would 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:36.360 be uh challenging. But I think we need to educate 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:40.720 and incentivize people. The more things you make mandatory, h, 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:44.680 I think there's always a potential risk of pushback. We 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:47.360 do a number of things that don't always make complete sense. 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.600 For example, in many communities, children before in kindergarten or 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.240 first grade have to take hepatitis B vaccine. That's a 0:07:55.320 --> 0:08:00.360 potential std the actual incident, so that is fairly low. Um. 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.560 Yet in many communities that's required and they're not even 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.520 going to need that for twelve years so or or 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:10.040 more you know when when people become sexually active, or 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.920 you know, it's possibly even longer. So I think it's 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:17.280 we have to really think carefully before we make something mandatory. 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:22.440 I think educating people, incentivizing people, reassuring people makes a 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.920 lot of sense. Um. Certainly in the healthcare community, we 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.440 do have to have flu shots really unless we have 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.160 a whole variety of effort to get an excuse when 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.520 we're seeing patients. I think the COVID vaccines that we 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.480 have makes sense. I think they're effective, I think they're 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:43.160 low risk. Uh. Making them mandatory, that's that's more of 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:47.040 a challenge, and I would definitely try and incentivize people. First. Hey, 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.080 so I gotta ask you, Dr Les Paider, a loyal 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.080 listener and someone on the Bloomberg saying to me, okay, 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.679 so what is low risk? Can you quantify it when 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.600 you say something is low risk or taking this vaccine 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:01.960 is low Ask whether it's for adults, whether it's for kids. 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:07.200 What is low risk in the medical world? Is it temporary? 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.360 Give me an idea. No, I think that's great. And 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.640 you know, we often sort of hedge when we talk 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:16.400 about this, and they sound like a loyal listener and 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.679 and probably have called in before, which is great. It's 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.240 great to get, you know, audience feedback on and they 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.200 like you. They like you. They just want to know 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:28.080 what is low risking. So in any individual, it's hard 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.559 to state your specific risk right because we don't know 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:38.079 your underlying immune system, your underlying disease, your underlying clotting issues. 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.200 But we know when we look at really now hundreds 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:45.080 of millions of vaccines, we know the the number of 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:50.679 cases of same mortality very very we're talking you know, 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:54.520 perhaps you know a hundred people out of you know, 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:56.920 a couple of hundred million vaccines, and part of the 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:01.120 other problem with that is there's some more cality that happens, 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.040 and it's sometimes hard to tie someone who dies of 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.959 a heart attack two days after a shot, what's the 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.280 would they have died from that anyway, So really getting 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.600 some of this data down is very challenging. We also 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.120 know the effectiveness. Again, out of a few hundred million 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.640 vaccines in the United States, only about five or six 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.640 thousand people get COVID, so we know it's, you know, 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.320 quite effective. So when I say low risk, we're talking 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.840 certainly in in single percentages of complications. If you're that 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:35.360 one percent or two percent who develops fever or dion beret, 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.960 which is a paralytic condition. But we see that with 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:41.440 a flu shot, we see that with other vaccines, and 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:45.040 sometimes we see it even unrelated to a vaccine. So 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.079 I think all we can say is we are not 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:52.880 seeing a real predominance or worrisome numbers that would say, hey, 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.880 this this is a dangerous shot that unfortunately for an individual. 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:01.000 It's very hard to say what one person specific risk is. 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.160 All right, but you gave us some guidelines, which is 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.400 good to know that it's under ten percent like it's 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.920 a low single you know percentage right, Um, did you 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:10.520 have another Christ? Well no, I just think you know, 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:12.840 from my own experience, it's just changed a lot about 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.160 how I feel about what's safe and what's not. Yeah. 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:17.920 Oh absolutely, And I think the more specific week can 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.120 be we can kind of understand exactly what we're dealing with. 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:22.480 Dr ian Los Beader, have a good rest of the week. 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:24.920 I really appreciate it, Clinical professor of Medicine and why 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:27.200 you lend Go Medical Center on the phone in New York. 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:31.880 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:36.760 Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. So Bloomberg's Bradstone 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:38.559 is no doubt about the go to voice when it 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:40.439 comes to Amazon. Wrote a book about the company, you 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.319 might recall the Everything Store. Lucky for us, he went 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.080 back to do more, resulting in his new book, Uh 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.600 just coming out Amazon on Bound, Jeff Bezos and the 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.080 Invention of a Global Empire. Been looking forward to this 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.319 chat for all week, or actually for weeks. Let's get 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.440 more from Bradstone, Senior Executive Editor up Global Technology here 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.440 at Bloomberg News. He is with us from Bureau in 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:02.480 San Francisco, along with Bloomberg business Week, get it or 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:04.520 Joel Weber, And I gotta tell you you guys, I 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:06.200 think we're just gonna do this for ten hours because 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.560 I just want to talk about everything Jeff Bezos and 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:11.199 everything Brad's book. I'm just gonna put that out there. Job. 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:12.880 I don't know if we can have Brad. I don't 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.920 know if we can have Brad for ten hours, but 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.680 but we'll take them for what we get. Isn't isn't 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:20.720 this a family program. I don't know if we're if 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:24.680 we're really able to talk about the ex for ten hours. Yeah, 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:29.160 it might be a little moro. So this story, um, Brad, 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.400 that that you know, we excerpted from your book is 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.439 one that kind of broke the internet when it happened, 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:39.360 but we we only really knew, Um the part that 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.080 came out at the moment, and what you brought to 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.800 the book and into the pages of Business Week is 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.240 a lot of color behind the scenes and and the 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:52.080 great untold story of how Jeff Bezos basically took probably 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.840 what was a low moment in his life and used 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.559 it to turn the tables. And we're talking about the 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:03.240 National enquired National Choir story that um was basically about 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:07.800 his affair. Um, so, so how did you approach a 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.680 writing this this story? And then like how did you 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.079 how does that tie into the book itself? Right? Yeah, 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.080 thanks Joel. Well, first of all, just to put it 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.000 into a little bit of context, I was about a 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.040 year into writing this book, as Carol said, a sequel 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.199 to The Everything Store, which I thought was gonna be 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.560 a nice, boring business book about the last ten years 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:30.120 and the rise of the continued rise and domination of Amazon, 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.600 with a little you know, ominous antitrust specter hanging over it, 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.640 and you know, and then Jeff tweets his divorce from 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.320 Mackenzie and the medium post and the National Enchoir package 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.800 and what was left from you know, that moment, Joel, 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:44.600 where you which you described as kind of breaking the 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.200 internet was a little bit of a sense of ambiguity. 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.360 It was like, well, wait, did the brother do it? 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.520 Did MBS do it? Who? How did the inquiry get 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.680 the story? Was Trump involved? And Bezos and his his 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.360 advocates were very clever, I think, in in casting sort 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.840 of political aspersions, wrapping themselves up in the mantle of 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.680 the Washington Post and the journalistic mission. And so my 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.960 goal as I got into it was, you know, to 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.840 try to avoid I guess some of the sensationalism and 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.080 and but but described you know what happened? How did 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.040 Bezos really come out on top? As the cover says, 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.040 Jeff wins he always seems to win. Um, and what 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.160 does it say about his kind of tactics? And so, 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:25.520 you know, I just tried to talk to everyone, get 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.240 close to the investigation into the whole thing by the 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.400 FBI and the Southern District of New York and figure out, Okay, 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.720 you know what what happened and and um, you know, 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.480 as as Jeff maneuvered through it, what can we learn 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.120 from that? So what did happen? Did it it didn't 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.800 actually have anything to do with Saudi Arabia or or 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.800 or President Trump? Right, that is the question. And what 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.880 I say in the book is, and it's represented in 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.240 the in the Business Week story this week, is that 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:55.960 based on the evidence that we have at the current moment, 0:14:56.040 --> 0:15:00.120 and based on the conclusions of federal prosecutors in New York, 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.280 that it seems like Akham's razor applies here. The simplest 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.040 solution was was the was the right one? Which is 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:11.200 that um, you know, the brother Michael Sanchez gave the 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:15.800 story to the National Enquirer. UM. And there's really no evidence, 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:20.120 um to suggest that there were any political motives involved, 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:25.440 UM or that any any international conspiracy was involved. There 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:28.680 there is I wouldn't say there's evidence. I would say 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:33.280 there's circumstantial evidence that MBS hacked bezos phone. UM. But 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:35.200 there are a lot of questions about the f T 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:38.960 I UH, the the the agency that did that investigation, 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:43.000 that Bezos is camp hired to do that investigation. UM. 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.520 You know, the spy where that was involved is very 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:47.960 very hard to detect. So really they were looking at 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.760 the increase in data that came from his phone and 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.880 at the time, and and there's and there's no evidence, 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.320 and there's a lot of evidence to the contrary. There. 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.920 They're sworn statements that were filed in part of these cases, 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.080 and there was evidence email evidence that shows the inquiry 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.280 getting the story from from Michael Sanchez and FIG trying 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.600 to piece together the mystery. Who was he even talking 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.760 about discovering it was Jeff Bezos and so you know 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.840 where I net it out again, may maybe something comes 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.080 out and this story so bizarre. Who knows what could happen, 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.960 but from the evidence we have, it really doesn't seem like, 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:23.640 you know, there were there were political winds blowing around 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.200 this thing at all, other than the fear that a 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.920 m I had that because of its, uh, you know, 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.400 the resolution of the Michael Cohen case and it's a 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:34.680 peace treaty with the Southern District of New York. They 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.520 worried about being accused of having political motives, and that 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.280 did play a role because it forced him into into 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.040 trying to negotiate a settlement, which Bezos the accused them 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.880 of of extorting him. But other than that, I think 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.280 all that stuff was just noise. I think it's remarkable 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:51.440 is that I can just imagine the PR team behind 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.720 it say no, Jeff, don't anything or whatever, denied it, 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.800 and like he just comes out, you know, fighting really hard, 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:59.600 and as the cover says, he wins like it's just 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.800 from workaball Brad. And the question Carol is is like, 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.240 was it And I don't know the answer to this, 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:09.760 but was he deliberately manipulating kind of the world, wrapping 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:11.600 himself up? As I said in the Mantle of Them 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.480 Washington Post imputing political motives to the Inquirer. Was that 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.639 a deliberate and somewhat disingenuous defensive shield or did they 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.639 really think, uh, you know that that there could have 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:26.400 been these political this political or international conspiracy. I tend 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.560 to think that they genuinely thought, um that maybe you 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.600 know that maybe his enemies and he does have enemies 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:35.200 on the Washington Post, particularly during the age of Trump 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.760 made a lot of enemies. Um. I think they genuinely 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:42.119 thought that there might be more to it. Um. But 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.800 you have to look back and not your head. You know, 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:50.119 it was super effective, right we all when you think 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:52.760 about sort of what he did and the personal sort 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.080 of trajectory there, people ended up sympathizing with him. He 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.600 took a stand, and he brought down the editor Dylan 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:00.919 Howard of the National Enquirer. So it was it was 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:05.760 super effective. Brad, what is this episode? What do you 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.680 feel like it illuminates about Jeff Bezos as a as 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.240 a business person and Jeff just got about forty seconds 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:16.200 or so left, right, Yeah, yeah, feel free to confuse, 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.360 you know, Joel, I just quickly go back to when 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.000 the Everything store came out, and do you remember they 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:26.640 didn't like the book, and they gave me a bunch 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:29.840 of one star reviews and and and mackenzie left one 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.120 at the time. And what struck me there is, Wow, 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:36.520 he found a totally unique way thinking outside the box 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.159 to try to throw an asterix next to next to 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.399 that work. And I, you know, frankly, I don't think 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:43.520 it was effective. But that's also what he did in 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:48.120 this case. He thought outside the box, outmaneuvered everyone. Um 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.640 you know, came up with this, this direct medium post 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.960 um one, the sympathist, came out on top. He's retiring 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.679 now as an icon of business. He The thing that 0:18:57.720 --> 0:18:59.639 you learned from this is he always does things a 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.919 little it differently, and often it is ingenious. All right, Well, 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.440 our thanks to brad Stone, a k. Jeff Bezo. Sorry 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.280 you got me so immersed in it, so just like 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:12.439 lost myself. It's incredible, wishy great look luck with it 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.240 and it's the cover of the magazine this week. Brad Stone, 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.679 Senior Executive Veditor Global Tech. Check out his book, The 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.080 Untold Story of How Jeff Bezos Beat the Tabloids. It's 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.600 incredible and of course our thanks to Joe Webber Bloomberg 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.560 Business Week editor also Amazon on Bound It's coming out. 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:36.840 This is Bloomberg Radio. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.840 with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:45.119 Bloomberg Radio. All right, you are listening to Bloomberg Business 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.679 Week and just about sixty minutes to go until the 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:50.760 close of trading. Top story at this hour news hit 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.880 this morning Donald Trump remaining banned from posting on Facebook 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.400 for now, the company's independent Content oversight board ruling that 0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.679 Tim leaving really the former US present with that is 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:04.080 most powerful tools for fundraising and you know, really kind 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.080 of leaves them out of the kind of political conversation 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.200 in a big way. It does. The Facebook Oversight Board 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:11.880 announcing that this morning, right at nine o'clock Wall Street time, 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.439 Kurt Wagner, who's based in San Francisco, was up early 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:16.480 and he was following every move from the company. He's 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:18.879 technology reporter for Bloomberg News and he joins us on 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.919 the phone from San Francisco. Kurt I sent out a 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.000 tweet this morning with a pull on it. It said, 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.639 is Trump going to be banned or not? You know what? What? 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:28.520 What is Facebook? Due to Trump, does it ban him 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.080 or or does it allow him back on the platform. 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.400 Now I realized I should have had a third option, 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:38.800 because this is kind of like punting it back to Facebook. Yeah, 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:40.680 you should have, and I guess I should have too, 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.159 because I I was definitely a little surprised by this 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:46.240 decision as well. I mean, I guess. The very short 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.639 summary is the board basically said Facebook made the right 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:53.040 choice on January six when it suspended Trump in the 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.920 moment with you know, this riot going on. But they 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.480 said that Facebook's decision to make that suspension in definite 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:03.520 without any end in sight, without any kind of guidance 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.880 to him on when that would come to a close, 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.280 was not the right choice because that's not something that 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:11.439 Facebook actually has and it's rules or its terms of 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:14.640 service right now. So they're now kicking that decision back 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:17.240 to Facebook to say, Okay, we agree with your decision 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.640 to suspend them, but you can't just do it indefinitely. 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:21.520