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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Wilson. When news broke this September, this is

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Speaker 1: that we're recording that there is a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff we never knew about buried in and around Stonehenge.

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Speaker 1: I thought, great, when it's the end of the year

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Speaker 1: and we do all our unearthed episodes, I'll update our

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Speaker 1: Stonehenge episode. And I filed that away in my brain,

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Speaker 1: and once I got started planning out how we were

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Speaker 1: going to cover our holiday schedule, I penciled it in there.

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Speaker 1: And I also remember at some point double checking to

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Speaker 1: make sure we actually had a Stonehenge episode. But in

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Speaker 1: a very twilight zone development, when December actually rolled around

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Speaker 1: and it was time to really start recording our unearthed

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Speaker 1: stuff this year, ill and there was no Stonehenge episode

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Speaker 1: in the archive. Uh. I was so sure that we

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Speaker 1: had one that I actually wondered if something had happened

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Speaker 1: to our RSS feed and the disappeared or something. So

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Speaker 1: I m I opened up that spreadsheet that you and

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Speaker 1: I got when we very first started that had every

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Speaker 1: episode on it, and it was not on there either.

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Speaker 1: And so I just disc decided that I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe I've been body snatched or something. Um. I expressed

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Speaker 1: my bafflement on Twitter, and we got way more people

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Speaker 1: asking us if we were going to have a Stonehenge

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Speaker 1: episode or telling us to please do it. Then we

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Speaker 1: got from people who were like, mat, no big loss.

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Speaker 1: So now also the archive feels like it's missing something

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Speaker 1: because it doesn't have the Stonehenge episode that I wish

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Speaker 1: sure had had. So we're gonna take a little page

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Speaker 1: from the Sarah and Holly playbook from back when they

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Speaker 1: found Richard the Third under that car park, and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna have an unearthed episode is actually a whole new thing,

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Speaker 1: but about one specific topic. So next week we're going

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Speaker 1: to have the Unearthed episodes that have become traditional in

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Speaker 1: the year end Time, where we talk about all kinds

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Speaker 1: of things that were dug up in some way or

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Speaker 1: another this year. But this episode is going to be

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Speaker 1: a whole new thing on Stonehenge, both past and what

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Speaker 1: was just discovered about it this year. So here's what

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Speaker 1: we knew about Stonehenge before September. Uh. Stonehenge is most

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Speaker 1: famously a prehistoric monument north of Salisbury Wiltshire in southern England.

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Speaker 1: It's most recognizable features are these immense stones in post

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Speaker 1: and lintel formations known as trilithons. It's thousands of years

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Speaker 1: old and it was also built over thousands of years

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Speaker 1: at the end of the Neolithic period and the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the Bronze Age in England. Stonehenge is just one

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Speaker 1: of many Neolithic hinges. These are all earthworks that include

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Speaker 1: both a circular bank and a ditch, and many of them,

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Speaker 1: but not all allso so include stone works. So even

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Speaker 1: though those stones are what you think of probably when

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Speaker 1: someone says Stonehenge, what makes a hinge is the earthword part,

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Speaker 1: the earthwork part. Stonehenge is also the only prehistoric stonework

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Speaker 1: that includes a lentil atop the posts, so there are

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Speaker 1: lots of upright stones, but Stonehenge is the only one

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Speaker 1: from the prehistoric period that has that crossbar over the top.

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Speaker 1: Along with more than three hundred hinges and other nearby sites,

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Speaker 1: Stonehenge was named a UNESCO World Heritage Site in six

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Speaker 1: and the stones themselves come in two main varieties. There

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Speaker 1: are sarsen stones, which are made of sandstone that can

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Speaker 1: be found in southern England. The Sarsen stones were probably

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Speaker 1: core quarried at Marlborough Downs. Then there are the blue stones,

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Speaker 1: and this is a catch all term for a lot

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Speaker 1: of the smaller stones at Stonehenge. They're not all necessarily

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Speaker 1: the same type exactly of stone. These stones came from

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Speaker 1: a range of places, and some of them were from

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Speaker 1: as far away as what is now Ales. Many of

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Speaker 1: the stones that were once part of Stonehenge are now gone,

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Speaker 1: taken away and repurposed for centuries up through the medieval period.

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Speaker 1: Some of the stones are still on the site but

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Speaker 1: have fallen down from their original position. The ground around

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Speaker 1: the area was also dug up over the centuries for

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Speaker 1: all kinds of reasons, sometimes for vaguely archaeological purposes, sometimes

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Speaker 1: for straight up treasure hunting. One of these diggers was

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Speaker 1: actually Charles Darwin, who dug who dug two holes at

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Speaker 1: Stonehenge to study earthworms in eighteen seventy seven. The first

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Speaker 1: official archaeological dig started there in nineteen o one, and

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Speaker 1: over the centuries people have come up with a lot

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Speaker 1: of possible explanations for what Stonehenge means. It's been studied

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Speaker 1: from every possible angle anthropologically, archaeologically, mathematically, geometrically, astronomically, just

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Speaker 1: on and on every point of view you can analyze

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Speaker 1: it from. It's been done. I think that's one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons that there was at least some talk on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: like nobody lost everybody. Everybody knows about Stonehenge. Legend has

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Speaker 1: tied Stonehenge to Merlin and King Arthur. So, according to legend,

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Speaker 1: Merlin brought the stones from Ireland with the help of

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Speaker 1: a giant from Africa. In this story, King Ambrosius are

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Speaker 1: Lean is buried at Stonehenge along with his brother Uther Pendragon,

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Speaker 1: who was the father of King Arthur, and for centuries

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Speaker 1: the academic world generally thought Stonehenge was some kind of

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Speaker 1: Druidic temple. This idea goes back to at least the

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Speaker 1: seventeenth century, and one of the reasons it had so

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Speaker 1: much staying power was that people thought a civilization would

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Speaker 1: have had to advance at least to the Iron Age

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Speaker 1: to pull off such a feat. That's when we have

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Speaker 1: the evidence of the Druids in Britain, largely thanks to

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Speaker 1: the Roman records. It's also not a far hop from

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Speaker 1: the mysterious idea of Druid to the mysterious idea of Stonehenge,

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Speaker 1: it just seemed to kind of line up and fit together. However,

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Speaker 1: as soon as carbon dating was invented and used at site,

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Speaker 1: it completely dispelled the idea that it's a Druid monument.

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Speaker 1: Stonehenge dates back much much earlier than the Iron Age,

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Speaker 1: and we just don't have records of the Druids existing

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Speaker 1: back that far. So once again, in spite of this

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Speaker 1: preconceived idea that only an Iron Age society would be

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Speaker 1: advanced enough to build something like stone Hinge and reality

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Speaker 1: a Stone Age and then Bronze Age society actually did it.

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Speaker 1: I will say that I think a lot of people

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Speaker 1: just have the idea of Druids as conventional wisdom tied

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Speaker 1: to Stonehenge, even still, even though that's been pretty thoroughly

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Speaker 1: discredited at this point, I think like the common knowledge

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Speaker 1: of Stonehenge to a lot of people is Druids, agreed.

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Speaker 1: I have actually witnessed an argument over this fact that

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Speaker 1: someone was completely like, everyone knows that Stonehenge is built

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Speaker 1: by the Druids, and I had another acquaintance he was like, well,

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Speaker 1: what everyone else seems to not know is that there

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Speaker 1: has been dating done, and that is not correct. And

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Speaker 1: you've ever seen two people dig in so hard on

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Speaker 1: a historical argument. In the nineteen sixties, astronomers started to

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Speaker 1: speculate that Stonehenge was basically a giant calendar or a

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Speaker 1: computer for predicting eclipses and other astronomical events. This is

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Speaker 1: actually something that was part of my astronomy class in college.

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Speaker 1: I dug out my astronomy textbook hoping to refresh my memory,

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Speaker 1: and I learned that this is like my astronomy professor's

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Speaker 1: went off script and didn't teach it from the book,

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Speaker 1: It was from some other source. Basically, there are all

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Speaker 1: kinds of astronomical events that you can witness by standing

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Speaker 1: in one part of Stonehenge and kind of sighting down

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Speaker 1: another part. And while many of the stones and other

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Speaker 1: formations at Stonehenge definitely follow astronomical lines. So what my

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Speaker 1: teachers were telling me that was all correct. It all

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Speaker 1: circles back around to like, was a Stone Age or

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Speaker 1: maybe Bronze Age society sophisticated enough to do that, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, or or back when it was still thought

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Speaker 1: to be an Iron Age thing, even was an Iron

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Speaker 1: Age society able to do that? We really don't have

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Speaker 1: the best track records so far of deciding what different

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Speaker 1: societies were advanced enough to do or not do, so

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Speaker 1: who knows. And over the years researchers have also theorized

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Speaker 1: that it was sort of a Bronze Age capital for

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Speaker 1: many tribes, like a seasonal gathering place, a funereal monument,

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Speaker 1: a healing site, and a religious site including sacrificial rights.

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Speaker 1: But for now it still sits squarely in the not

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Speaker 1: conclusively proven category. Yeah, people have all kinds of ideas

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Speaker 1: about what it was quote for and their pros and

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Speaker 1: cons to all these different ideas. Also in the not

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Speaker 1: conclusively proven category is exactly how the massive stones on

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Speaker 1: the site got there, A lot of them, way between

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Speaker 1: four and eight tons. The bluestones brought in from Wales.

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Speaker 1: Some of them had to travel like three hundred miles

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Speaker 1: and so there are theories that maybe they were rolled

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Speaker 1: along logs, or maybe they were floated down the Welsh

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Speaker 1: coast and then up the Avon River, uh like the

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Speaker 1: Druid idea. That idea has been around for quite a while,

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Speaker 1: but none of these are conclusively proven. A more recent

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Speaker 1: supposition is that the stones were actually carried in enormous

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Speaker 1: baskets hauled by oxen or that the bluestones used at

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Speaker 1: Stonehenge were pushed south by glaciers. One of the like

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Speaker 1: counterpoints to that last part that made me chuckle was

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Speaker 1: somebody saying it seems weird that glaciers would move exactly

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Speaker 1: the right number of stones to put into Stonehenge. That

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Speaker 1: made me laugh. I don't. I don't think that's actually

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Speaker 1: valid as a counterpoint, because the stones are used for

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Speaker 1: other stuff too, But still, I don't know. Those glaciers

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Speaker 1: are sneaky. I know they're wildly So we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk some more about how Stonehenge was built after a

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Speaker 1: brief word from a sponsor. So monuments were actually erected

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Speaker 1: in the Stonehenge area long before the construction of the earthworks,

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Speaker 1: and the stone works actually started as far back as

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Speaker 1: eight thousand b c. E. Hunter gatherer people erected pine

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Speaker 1: posts in the area, and the purpose of these posts

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Speaker 1: is not completely clear. As we mentioned in our Poverty

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Speaker 1: Point podcast and as we've kind of alluded to a

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Speaker 1: couple of times in this episode, not particularly common for

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Speaker 1: hunter gatherer societies to build elaborate monuments. Although it's not

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Speaker 1: unheard of. Also in the area are burial mounds that

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Speaker 1: date back at least to three thousand b c. E.

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Speaker 1: The construction of Stonehenge itself with a six stage process

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Speaker 1: that started around three thousand b C and ended around.

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Speaker 1: Construction of other barrows, dwellings, monuments, and other sites went

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Speaker 1: on at the same time. The first stage of building

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Speaker 1: at Stonehenge was from about three thousand to twenty nine

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Speaker 1: thirty five b C, and this was mostly an earthwork stage.

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Speaker 1: That's when the circular ditch that's sort of the hallmark

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Speaker 1: of the hinge was built. And that ditch is about

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Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty ft or a hundred meters in diameter,

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Speaker 1: so it's today the outer perimeter of kind of what

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Speaker 1: we think of as Stonehenge, as a high bank on

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Speaker 1: the outside and a low bank on the inside. The

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Speaker 1: builders of this ditch placed antler picks, which were probably

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Speaker 1: used to dig the ditch itself, as well as animal

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Speaker 1: bones down into the bottom of the ditch. Some of

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Speaker 1: these animal bones were much older than the ditch itself is.

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Speaker 1: The ditch encloses fifty six pits, known as the Aubrey holes.

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Speaker 1: These were named for the man who identified them John Aubrey.

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Speaker 1: The Aubrey holes probably contained Welsh Blue stones, and they

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Speaker 1: also contained burial remains of cremated people. The second stage

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Speaker 1: of construction took place between twenty forty b C, so

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Speaker 1: that's a multi hundred year jump. Burials continued to happen

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Speaker 1: at Stonehenge in the interim, but there wasn't new construction

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Speaker 1: before the second phase started. When construction zoomed, that's when

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Speaker 1: the huge sarsen stones started to be erected in a

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Speaker 1: very methodical, systematic manner along regular intervals and following that

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Speaker 1: post and lintel style. The stones are held together using

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Speaker 1: dovetail and tongue and groove joints, much like is used

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Speaker 1: to hold wood together in construction. Wood construction actually may

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Speaker 1: have been the inspiration for how to secure the stones

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Speaker 1: to one another. Big difference though, unlike would those stones

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Speaker 1: weighed around seven tons for upright. Stones known as the

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Speaker 1: station stones were probably also erected during the second phase,

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Speaker 1: but only two of those are still in place. Timber

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Speaker 1: circles were also built to the north and the south

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Speaker 1: of the Stoneworks during this second phase of construction, as

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Speaker 1: was a collection of dwellings that may have been the

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Speaker 1: builder's camp. The third stage started just about ten years

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Speaker 1: after the second one ended. The building during this sphase

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Speaker 1: included a roughly C shaped avenue lined by banks and ditches,

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Speaker 1: which went all the way from Stonehenge to the River Avon.

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Speaker 1: This is almost two miles or three kilometers away. A

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Speaker 1: lot of this avenue has since been destroyed by plowing,

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Speaker 1: although when it was intact, parts of it lined up

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Speaker 1: with the sunrise during the summer solstice and the sunset

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Speaker 1: during the winter solstice. This is of course one of

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Speaker 1: those features that has led people to believe that Stonehenge

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Speaker 1: is some kind of computer or clock. But in two

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Speaker 1: thousand eight it was discovered that this line also follows

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Speaker 1: a line of chalk ridges that happened to follow that

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Speaker 1: same course, so it was probably a coincidence. I think

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Speaker 1: it's also one of the things that makes people think

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Speaker 1: druids celstice. Yeah. More recent stages of Stonehenges construction spanned

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Speaker 1: from twenty to eighty to fifty BC, and these phases

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Speaker 1: largely involved rearrangements of the existing stones and digging of

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Speaker 1: a series of pits that are known as the Why

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Speaker 1: and Z holes. And if you are wondering, just how

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Speaker 1: many man hours this massive project may have taken. It's

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Speaker 1: estimated that it's about three million. So that's kind of

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Speaker 1: an overview of Stone Hinge as a monument. And before

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Speaker 1: we talk about the discoveries about Stonehenge in let's take

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Speaker 1: another brief break for a word from a sponsor. So

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Speaker 1: all of this finally brings us to the fourteen discoveries

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Speaker 1: that led us to doing this episode. This latest round

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Speaker 1: of discoveries comes thanks to using three D imaging to

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Speaker 1: study the site, rather than what you might imagine when

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Speaker 1: somebody says archaeological dig This study is called the Stoneheinge

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Speaker 1: Hidden Landscapes Project and it's a team effort between the

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Speaker 1: University of Birmingham and the Ludwig Boltzmann Institute for Archaeological

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Speaker 1: Prospection and Virtual Archaeology. This project started in July and

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Speaker 1: it went on for four years, although the actual field

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Speaker 1: work totaled about a hundred and twenty days spread across

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Speaker 1: that time. The field studies included magnetic perspection, ground penetrating, radar,

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic in auction sensors, earth resistance surveys, laser scanning, aerial photography,

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Speaker 1: airborne spectroscopy and other technologies. To map the area in

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Speaker 1: a noninvasive way. Some of the pictures of this going

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Speaker 1: on are unintentionally kind of comical because their guys driving

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Speaker 1: a t v s that are towing these imaging rigs,

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Speaker 1: and what we would otherwise think of as a mysterious

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Speaker 1: ancient landscape, it just seems very incongruous and kind of anachronistic.

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Speaker 1: In the case of the magnetic prospection, these are actually

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Speaker 1: specially built a TV s to be non magnetic so

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Speaker 1: that they wouldn't interfere with their readings. And this isn't

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Speaker 1: at all the first time that noninvasive imaging has actually

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Speaker 1: been used to study Stonehenge. There was already a really

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Speaker 1: large body of digital imagery and other noninvasive work that existed. However,

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Speaker 1: a lot of that existing body of data focused on

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Speaker 1: the monuments, which we already knew existed, and this time

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Speaker 1: the focus was much more broad what was actually between

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Speaker 1: all of the monuments. The result of all this is

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Speaker 1: a highly detailed map of what's under the surface of

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Speaker 1: the earth at Stonehenge and a ten square kilometer region

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Speaker 1: around it, which was obtained without actually having to dig

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Speaker 1: anything up. And their findings include seventeen previously unknown ritual monuments,

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Speaker 1: burial sites, and a barrow that dates back to before

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Speaker 1: the first phase of Stonehenge construction. This last one was

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Speaker 1: a huge building made of timber, which was then buried

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Speaker 1: under a mound. The survey also examined the Durrington Walls Superhinge,

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Speaker 1: which is a nearby site that's much, much much larger

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Speaker 1: than Stonehenge. Derrington Walls has a similar avenue to the

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Speaker 1: one at Stonehenge, which, like the Stonehenge avenue, aligns with

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Speaker 1: the summer solstice sunset, so there's some speculation that these

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Speaker 1: two sites were meant to kind of complement each other.

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Speaker 1: The findings at Drington Walls include an entire earlier phase

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Speaker 1: of construction that was previously known and has since been buried.

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Speaker 1: The earlier phase included a series of posts or stones,

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Speaker 1: some of which may still exist beneath the surface. There

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Speaker 1: was a whole documentary about all this on BBC two

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Speaker 1: which was called Operations Stonehenge What Lies Beneath which full

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Speaker 1: disclosure we have not watched because it appears not to

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Speaker 1: be available outside of the UK that I can find,

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Speaker 1: and based on all this new information, Stonehenge was not

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Speaker 1: as popularly imagined a secluded spot where only a few

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Speaker 1: people visited. There's a whole lot more going on than

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Speaker 1: just what we can see from above ground. And really

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Speaker 1: this imaging work, as awesome as it is, it's really

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Speaker 1: just a next step. It's a tool to figure out

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Speaker 1: where researchers should study next. So it's a treasure trove

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Speaker 1: of new information, but it's also really a way for

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Speaker 1: researchers to figure out what their next project should be.

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Speaker 1: Some of the more recent discoveries at Stonehengd also come

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Speaker 1: from a much less high tech method, and one that

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Speaker 1: may surprise you. I did not realize that there are

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Speaker 1: people taking care of the grass at Stonehenge and watering it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In my head, Stonehenge just makes its own grass. I

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Speaker 1: don't know the fact that they're like lawn care people.

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Speaker 1: They're trying to make sure that it remains lush and

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Speaker 1: green just took me by surprise, but so not druidic magic.

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Speaker 1: Right in the summer of an irrigation hose pipe that

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Speaker 1: was being used to to irrigate this area and keep

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Speaker 1: the grass watered was too short to reach the outer

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Speaker 1: parts of the stone circles, and later on aerial photography

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Speaker 1: of this parched area of land found particularly dry patches,

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Speaker 1: and those are now believed to have been the sites

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Speaker 1: of stones which have since been removed. It pretty much

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Speaker 1: confirmed what everyone already suspected Slash knew, which is that

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Speaker 1: the circle used to be a complete circle and not

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Speaker 1: a partial circle. But it did give clues to the

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Speaker 1: exact positions of the other stones, which was less known before.

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Speaker 1: So that is Stonehenge and all I can think of

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Speaker 1: his ediizard, all I can think of a spinal tap

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Speaker 1: between the two of us were very entertained. Yes, So

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Speaker 1: before we close out, I have some listener mail and

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Speaker 1: it is from Joanne. Joan says, hi, ladies, I'm enjoying

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Speaker 1: your podcast while I remodel our eighteen eighties Victorian home.

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Speaker 1: I attempted to count the number of hours I have listened,

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Speaker 1: but it was two time consuming and I needed to

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Speaker 1: get back to painting. My favorite episodes have been The

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Speaker 1: Orphan Trains and The Lines of Tsavo, mainly because of

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Speaker 1: my personal connection to both. Although I don't have any

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Speaker 1: official documentation, I believe my great grandfather was a child

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Speaker 1: on the Orphan Trains. His name was Thomas. He and

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Speaker 1: his siblings William, Martin, and Mamie were placed into the

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Speaker 1: Catholic Protectory, which was an orphanage, after their mother died

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Speaker 1: in eighteen nineties six and their father could not keep them.

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Speaker 1: Their father later disappeared, the siblings were separated. The orphanage

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Speaker 1: would not give Tom any information because he had become

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Speaker 1: a Protestant. Tom located his brother Bill, who was a

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Speaker 1: conductor on the subway. Tom talked about the orphan train

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Speaker 1: and how his family reconnected in a later and a

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Speaker 1: letter to his older brother Martin dated April eighteenth, nineteen,

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Speaker 1: and he basically, I don't want to read the story

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Speaker 1: because I feel like it's a little too personal to

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Speaker 1: just read on the air um. But he sort of

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Speaker 1: tells the story of looking for his brother and then

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Speaker 1: basically finding him in the phone book, which I found

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Speaker 1: to be delightful. He found him in the phone book

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Speaker 1: and then went and met him and confirmed that it

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Speaker 1: really was his brother. Tom would have been sent on

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Speaker 1: the train in five I have not found what happened

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Speaker 1: to the other siblings while they were separated, but Martin

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Speaker 1: was in jail when the later letter was written. William

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Speaker 1: continued as conductor on the subway. Their sister Mamie, got

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Speaker 1: married and had a family. My great grandfather Thomas and

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Speaker 1: my great grandmother Elizabeth became officers in the Salvation Army.

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Speaker 1: Thomas lived to be ninety four. As for the Lions

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Speaker 1: of Tsavo, our family served in the bush in Kenya, Africa,

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Speaker 1: where the man eating lightning lions were terrorizing the railroad.

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Speaker 1: We lived among the Massai people. One evening, my husband

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Speaker 1: showed the movie Ghost in the Darkness to the staff

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Speaker 1: at our project. I don't think that many of them

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Speaker 1: slept that night. It did not help that on nights

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Speaker 1: that there was no moon, you could not see two

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Speaker 1: inches in front of you, and you can occasionally hear

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Speaker 1: the roar of lions. We traveled through the Savo area

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Speaker 1: but did not stop. The story of the man eating

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Speaker 1: lions continues to put fear in the hearts of Kenyans

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Speaker 1: and Americans even now. If you ever want to take

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Speaker 1: a road trip to Kenya, let us know we would

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Speaker 1: be happy to be your tour guides. Then she thanks

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Speaker 1: us for the podcast. Thanks Joanne, I love the personal

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Speaker 1: connection to you, and I'll mention that part of the

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Speaker 1: reason that the Lions of Tsavo story persists and still

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Speaker 1: scares people, is that there are still incidents of lions

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Speaker 1: attacking men. The they're doing what lions do. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to sound callous. I'm just like, they're

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Speaker 1: wild animals. They're gonna attack things. Yeah. And we mentioned

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Speaker 1: it in that podcast that this particular route, these lines

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Speaker 1: in this area are sort of extra aggressive, and there's

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Speaker 1: still lots of research going on about why that might

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Speaker 1: be the case. But uh, there's a reason that fear persists. Yep,

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Speaker 1: it's justified. They are they are fierce. Uh. If you

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Speaker 1: would like to write to us, we are a history

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Speaker 1: podcast like how Stuffworks dot com. We're also on Facebook

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Speaker 1: at facebook dot com slash miss industry and on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at miss Industry. Our tumbler is missed in History dot

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Speaker 1: tumbler dot com, and we are also on pentrant at

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Speaker 1: pinterest dot com slash miss in History. We have a

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00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 1: spreadshirt store full of shirts and other things, and it

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00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: is at missing history doup spreadshirt dot com. If you

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Speaker 1: would like to learn a little bit more about what

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Speaker 1: we've talked about today, you can come to our parent

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00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: company's website, which is how stuff Works dot com and

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00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: put the word stone hinge into the search bar and

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Speaker 1: you won't find various things about stone Hinge. You can

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00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: also come to our site which is missed in History

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Speaker 1: dot com, and we will have in the show notes

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Speaker 1: for this episode links to all the sources we use,

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Speaker 1: some of which have cool pictures of things that have

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Speaker 1: been found, a kind of virtual maps of what is

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Speaker 1: underneath the ground its Stonehenge. You can do all that

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Speaker 1: and a whole lot more at how stuff works dot

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00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: com and missing history dot com. For more on this

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00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: from thousands of other topics, is it how stuff works

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Speaker 1: dot com, m