1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: Have you ever wanted a safe space where you can 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: just exist, where for a moment in time, you can 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: be you, with all the intricacies and parts of you 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: that people don't always understand. Welcome to in the deep 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: stories that shape us. I'm your host, Zach Stafford, and 6 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: each episode we create a space to be you, all 7 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: of you and all your messy and complicated glory. Every 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: story shares what it means to be a black and 9 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: Latin X man living with different hardships, whether it's a 10 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: struggle of identity, discrimination or health, and how they've managed 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: to push forward despite the circumstance. We hope to get closer, 12 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: even it's just a little to a road of healing 13 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: and understanding. Hi everyone, Welcome back. One of life's biggest 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: mysteries is why exactly music is so powerful for our souls. 15 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: You probably have a soundtrack to your life, jam for 16 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: those happy days, maybe one for the tough days too, 17 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: and you can't forget those special songs that keep you 18 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: in your driveway until they play all the way through. 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: But undoubtedly music has the power to heal and in 20 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: our communities, it is an auditory expression of our cultures fabric. 21 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: It's who we are and what we believe in our 22 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: guest today is not only a testament to this that 23 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: his story gives us something even bigger, because the music 24 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: he is creating is not only helping us see the 25 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: world and all its complicated glory, but it's also creating 26 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: a future that heals us all. Dr Alexander Lloyd Blake 27 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: is a lot of things. He's an award winning conductor, 28 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: he's a composer, he's an arranger, he's a vocal contractor, 29 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: he is a singer, and he is a music activist. 30 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: But before this, he was a young boy in North 31 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: Carolina where his first introduction to music was in a 32 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: church where he was a little kid singing in the 33 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: adult choir gossip. Music to me is something that resonates 34 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: really deeply. I think a lot of music that seems 35 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: from Black tradition is based in experience and stories. Even 36 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: in the joyous songs, they come from a place of 37 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: either dealing with or coming from trauma, from resistance, and 38 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: there is an emotional pool. I tie that to a 39 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: spiritual realm and purpose, and this is where I feel 40 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: fed really more than any other relationship experience. Was listening 41 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: to a gospel choir. You can feel people's emotion on 42 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: when they're singing. And not to say that that is 43 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: specific to gospel music, but I think it is tangible 44 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: in a way that other genres might not have the 45 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: same access to. And so I think that's why so 46 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: many people enjoy just the environment that comes around that 47 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: type of music. Yeah, I agree completely. And you know, 48 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: we're speaking the week of Martin Luther King Junior's official 49 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: holiday in the United States, and I think a lot 50 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: about how back when he was doing the work and touring, 51 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: he called gospel singers and have them sing to him. 52 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: And I think that really speaks to what you're saying. 53 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: And I want to ask you about that, as someone 54 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: that's been in the church, what types of things were 55 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: you turning to gospel too as a young person as 56 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: a teenager to help you move through the world. Who 57 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,839 Speaker 1: so many things my own struggles personally, you know, things 58 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: that I was dealing with at home. I felt like 59 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: I turned to gospel music to vent, you know. Not 60 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: every time was negative. I love singing and jumping around 61 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: when I was younger, but there are definitely songs that 62 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: I think spoke to me and allowed me to deal 63 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: with things that I I didn't feel like I could talk 64 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,839 Speaker 1: about openly. And even now, I think some of these 65 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: songs I listened to that really kind of speak to 66 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: specific emotions and about really getting through and trusting and 67 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: having hope and faith. I feel like it kind of 68 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: served as a therapy or a friend. Really. Yeah, that's 69 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: so beautiful to hear you say that I had similar 70 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: experiences as a young person, and you know, we both 71 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: I did. If I's being black, ay men, I know 72 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: personally how complicated that relationship is because you find so 73 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: much hope in gospel music and then you go to 74 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: church on Sunday and you hear words that don't make 75 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: you feel so hopeful. Did you have that experience? Was 76 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: there ever a time that you were in the church 77 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: feeling that you weren't supposed to be there? You know, 78 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: it's interesting my pastor never openly spoke towards any gay topics. 79 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: It really wasn't mentioned in my church. However, it was 80 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: certainly mentioned in the community. I mean really, even up 81 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: through my college years, I was running into experiences with Christians, 82 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: people who I considered friends who didn't know about me. 83 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: I would say harmful things. I learned from a very 84 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: early age that to be gay, especially in the religious environment, 85 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: was not something that I could be freely. You use 86 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: this word freely. And I was telling the producers before 87 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: this that my grandmother, who still even in the pandemic, 88 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: she was doing the drive through church, she was going 89 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: to going every week and her mass windows up, all 90 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: these things. Very religious woman. Love her to death. And 91 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: she called me because there was a sermon at her church, 92 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,239 Speaker 1: the church I grew up and where the pastor said, hey, 93 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: y'all should love your LGBTQ children. You know we're gonna 94 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: just say it, because they hadn't said it ever. And 95 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: she called me crying. She was so relieved to finally 96 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: be like, yo, God says I can love you in 97 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: the ways I do love you, or that God also 98 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: loves you the ways that I love you. Have you 99 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: found that kind of complicated experience to be your own 100 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: damigating the Black church, especially as a young person, a 101 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: lot of things were spoken in the unspoken. I feel 102 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: like everyone knew about me, but no one said anything. 103 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: And to me, I'm learning in my older age of wisdom, 104 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: silence is a response. And you know, everyone took touring 105 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: around and being asked questions about girlfriends, and everyone knew 106 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: that was not the case. Uh, those things are triggering. 107 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: People are asking you when you're gonna get married. So 108 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: I was older. I didn't really start coming out to 109 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: people in North Carolina until I was you know, luckily, 110 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: I started with low hanging fruit. So I started with 111 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: friends that I had made in l A. One of 112 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: my best friends, you know, she had asked me earlier 113 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: when we were at U C l A together, and 114 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: I lied because you know, that was that was what 115 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: I was used to. And then I ended up actually 116 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: in like a romantic relationship situation. You know. She was 117 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: a friend, So I talked to her about it, and 118 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: I was finding more and more people out here. I 119 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: would tell them and they'd be like, okay, and your 120 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: shirts blue. Next. I mean, it was nothing, and I 121 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: realized that, you know, how much of this am I 122 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: carrying from home. I was in my thirties before I 123 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: started talking about it with my family, and yeah, the 124 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: comment that came to me was, you know, well, yeah, 125 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: I always knew, and I think I can feel the 126 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: intent to be one of support. That's not how I felt, 127 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: because you know, I was walking our exshells, and I was, 128 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: you know, trying to prey away and do all these 129 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: things and living in shame. The child and me could 130 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: have really used someone to reach out and say you 131 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: are okay as you are. For Alex, this juxtaposition of 132 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: two worlds, one very liberal and one very conservative, one 133 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: in l a versus one in the South became very complicated. 134 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: But as a gay black man, music was the way 135 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: he could make sense of himself in this world because 136 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: it's where he found comfort in learning of the enormous 137 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: contributions his culture made to music as a whole in 138 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: both the past and the present. As vocalists who sings stories, 139 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: I think we have a huge responsibility to treat all 140 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: those stories well inequitably. And then I saw Considering Matthew 141 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: Shepard actually, which was our piece that was done by 142 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: Conspiary Professional Choir in Texas, and it told the beautiful 143 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: perspective of the not so beautiful murder of Matthew Shepard, 144 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: a gay student who was killed. And that was the 145 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: first time I was able to see what music can 146 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: do in a space where it is everyone is held 147 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: for a moment, a couple of hours and really kind 148 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: of forced encouraged. Might be nice to consider, you know, 149 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: all of the aspects and feelings around such an incident 150 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: and then really have to kind of sit with the 151 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: feelings around the issues and the people. Yeah, why do 152 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: you think that is possible only through music? And you 153 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: know I used to write a lot about death and people. 154 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: Never changes the behaviors, you know, we do all these 155 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: stories and you watch the news everynight, you hear about 156 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: people dying tragically, and is change anybody? But when you 157 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: put music or create music as a space to tell 158 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:00,719 Speaker 1: a story, you know, the where that comes to mind 159 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: is the song telling. Dolly Parton uses that phrase song 160 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,719 Speaker 1: telling a lot, which I love. It does make it 161 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: sick with people a bit deeper. Why do you think 162 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: that is? I think when we read or what we 163 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 1: see stories to protect ourselves, I think we keep the 164 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: stories distant from us emotionally. And when you see and 165 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: hear so many stories, I'm gonna you know, talk about 166 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: police brutality, for instance, as extreme as it might seem, 167 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: when you start to see so many people being shot 168 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: on Facebook or you know, other platforms, you become desensitized. 169 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: And I don't think that's people intentionally just saying I 170 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: don't care. I think it's this is way too much 171 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: to take in, so I'm just going to treat it 172 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: as this incident and I will get mad from an 173 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: intellectual point of view. But when you hear these stories 174 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: of music, I think music is used to express and 175 00:09:55,840 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: I think naturally people mirror that, and so the emotions 176 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 1: I think are brought back into the stories, and then 177 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: people have to think. It's not just anger, it's grief, 178 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: it's sadness, it's embarrassment, it's frustration. And when you are 179 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: in a musical environment, your emotions are allowed to take over, 180 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: and I think then people feel a lot more intimately 181 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: connected to the story, stories of injustice or heartbreak, you know, loss, joy, 182 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: love as well. I think it really allows people to 183 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: engage in a different way, and it's harder to turn 184 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: that off in a musical environment. I don't know why 185 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: this has popped to mind. I think a lot about 186 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: Tilcs Waterfalls. What is that song about? And why do 187 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 1: you think that's an example of this? You know, it's 188 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: funny because I remember seeing the words for years before 189 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: I even knew what happened. But the three letters took 190 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: him to his final arrest, gives me chills just saying that, 191 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: Like when I finally understood what that song in the 192 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: video was about. Again, I think it just becomes I 193 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: think it makes what seems distance so much more accessible. 194 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: And there are experiences I think many of us will 195 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 1: never ever have to endure personally, but I think music 196 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: allows a lot more proximity two issues that might not 197 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: be our own. And I think there's something to people 198 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: learning these songs and finding out later what they mean. 199 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: So Waterfalls, again, we were younger, probably did understand the context, 200 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: and then later someone tells me, oh, you know that's 201 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: about HIV eight or Together Again by Janda Jackson. Everyone 202 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: knows that song and that's about her losing her friends. Yeah, 203 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: and then it makes people question, you know, you've sung 204 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: these songs, you have internalized these words, So it kind 205 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: of makes people feel like, oh, well, I've been I've 206 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: been a part of this narrative unknowingly. And again it 207 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: makes it your story too, in a sense, or at 208 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: least your opportunity to be empathetic. So here's Alex, a 209 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: young man learning about a very traditional Western music with 210 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: empathy and respect, but he didn't feel that love back 211 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: when it came to the sounds of his community, that 212 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: rich gospel music he grew up with, and after seeing 213 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: his culture missing in that high level discourse that revolved 214 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: around classical music, those conversations about richness and impact on 215 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: the genre overall, he decided to build Tonality, an award 216 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: winning choral ensemble that emphasizes spreading messages of social justice. 217 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: And this idea that originated as a tool for inclusion 218 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: grew but in ways that he did not anticipate. So 219 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: Tonality is a vocal ensemble, and we use music and 220 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:50,239 Speaker 1: we use stories to speak to issues of injustice, of inequality, 221 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: and as we've been talking about here, really using music 222 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: as a catalyst for people to be activated and not 223 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: just to learn, but how to get involved and create 224 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: being a more just world for all of us. Our 225 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: focus actually at first was not about social justice directly. 226 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: It really was to address some of these inequalities within 227 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: classical music that I saw. I heard someone misrepresent a 228 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: genre or a style that I grew up singing, guessing 229 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: the ways that gospel music was described. Don't use beauty, 230 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: use energy, m hmm, right, as if this music is 231 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: not beautiful, yeah, And the attention we would spend towards 232 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: the music of the classical cannon and the composers and 233 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 1: knowing their history. I said, I knew how Bok could 234 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: tie his shoe before he wrote one of cantatas. Meanwhile, 235 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: I mean, we'll be lucky if we even hear the 236 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: names of the composers of spirituals and gospel music and rehearsal. 237 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: And so, you know, I started to feel that way 238 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: about music that I knew personally, and in going through 239 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: my schooling, my education, different performance environments, I realized it 240 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: wasn't just black music, Hispanic music, hinderstining music, really music 241 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: again that was not coming from Western European cultures was 242 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: treated in that way. And I said, we could do better. 243 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: There's a way to do better. And so I thought, 244 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: how can we give the intentionality and respect through our 245 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: musical practices two more cultures and we're seeing now. And 246 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: that's how Tonality started. And so when we started that 247 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: first meeting, even with most of the people in that 248 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: room not knowing each other, you could immediately feel when 249 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: we started singing, the intention was there, and I think 250 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: it makes people sing differently, and we felt that with 251 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: our audience. Our first concert was free, because again, who 252 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: were we to charge anyone? It was jam packed. I 253 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: think people were really interested in what does this mean. 254 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: I have found that a lot of people have resonated 255 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: with this same call to find an equitable space, and 256 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: we weren't. Really we received a lot of support, I 257 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: think from outside musical organizations and core organizations. When you 258 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: were just telling that story about the first concert, I 259 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: thought back to your earlier story about your first time 260 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: in which gospel really had a big impact on you 261 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: when you were sitting there seeing kind of the environment 262 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: of the church. Do you see these two experiences as 263 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: being similar, did you when you were sitting there the 264 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: first concert, thinking back to that first time you heard 265 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: gospel music as like the powerful thing it is? I think. 266 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: So we've done this piece called seven Last Words would 267 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: be Unarmed by Joe Thompson, and it takes the last 268 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: words of seven black men who have been shot and 269 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: killed by police, and obviously in a very different way, 270 00:15:52,560 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: but music bringing out such a strong emotional response is 271 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: what I felt and what I know. Uplifts and encourages 272 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: and challenges and activate to me and has since my 273 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: days in the church. And I feel like that is 274 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: what I believe music can do if we choose to 275 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: use it in those ways to speak about issues of 276 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: our time. And again, our audience doesn't always reflect the 277 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: families of those stories, and so maybe for the first 278 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: time someone has to sit there for a couple of 279 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: minutes and engage emotionally. When men are hitting themselves, slapping 280 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: themselves on the chests and saying, you shot me, you 281 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: shot me. That's intense, and it's a very different experience 282 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: than seeing it or hearing about it or reading about it. 283 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: And so I think, yeah, I think the way that 284 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: gospel music moves me, I would like to think that 285 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: the music that we do, in the ways that we 286 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: tell stories in our concerts all so helps to move 287 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: people to a heighened emotional state, and in that state, 288 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: then we hope to help them find ways to get 289 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: involved now that they're emotionally connected. Tonality was finding its 290 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: voice and sharing the experiences of Black Americans, pulling the 291 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: curtain back and delving into the emotions of black identity 292 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: rather than just an explanation on paper. But then something 293 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: happened that propelled the discourse into center stage. George Floyd's 294 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: murder on May Floyd was killed by the hands of 295 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: police in Minneapolis after a convenience store clerk called nine 296 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: one one over an alleged counterfeit twenty dollar bill. As 297 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: they detained him, former police officer Derek Chauvin tak a 298 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: knee to his neck. Eight minutes and forty six seconds later, 299 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: he was gone. For Tonality, an organization that has become 300 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: known for making you feel what it meant to be 301 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: black in America through music, this moment was a turning point, 302 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: and suddenly the whole world was watching. So yeah, George 303 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: Floyd's murder did a lot. Actually, I think fra Tonality 304 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: and it's obviously unfortunate circumstance, I think it, like the 305 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,479 Speaker 1: whole world, it turned people onto the realization that everyone 306 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: needs to look inward, that that injustice wasn't just that 307 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: particular incident, but really so many systems, especially within our country, 308 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: helped perpetuate or at least do not resist the racism 309 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: that we see. And so when that work was seen 310 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: within our choral environment, I think a lot of people 311 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: turned to leaders and organizations that has been doing this 312 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: work well before, because I think people were really inspired 313 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: to actually make the real changes. But maybe didn't have 314 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: the answers have had to do that. And so because 315 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: Tonality has been doing this work really since sixteen, I 316 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: kind of felt, I think, like so many black people, 317 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: kind of felt thrust into a spotlight. And for me, 318 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: this is a work I wanted to be doing. I 319 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: know a lot of people felt uncomfortable. It's like I 320 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: did not I don't walk around as a diversity expert, 321 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: but these are conversations that I was hoping to have, 322 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: you know, again, it's why Tonality started, and so it 323 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: really allowed us to move intentionally and to help people 324 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: move with us. You know, A group of colleagues and 325 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: I started a Black Voices Matter pledge, which listed out 326 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: some very practical steps about how to get involved. We 327 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: worked with an amazing artist from and Jeer and Arthur 328 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: who made this song build Me Up, which kind of 329 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: became an anthem for us around the Black Lives Matter movement. 330 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: I wrote my first piece about criminal justice and how 331 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: that affects communities. So I think really this allowed us, 332 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: you know, as we were doing this thing on the side, 333 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: at least from my perspective, of talking about these things 334 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 1: directly and really engaging our audiences and our singers and 335 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: composers in this way to have more of a platform. 336 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: I brought a platform to say, you know, this work 337 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be this thing on this side. We 338 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 1: all care about these things, and we're all musicians, so 339 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: we can use our gifts to bring more people into 340 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: this conversation. I love that because so many people I 341 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: hear constantly say, you know, I feel so much, I'm 342 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: so sad, I'm seeing the news. I don't know what 343 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: to do. Where do I fit into this? And what 344 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: I'm seeing from what the work you're doing is you're saying, well, 345 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: you can do the work and everything that you do 346 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: because the genre of music the Tonality typically does is 347 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: not what I would ever think of seeing on Kelly 348 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: Clarkson show thinking about black lives mattering, right, it's not 349 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: the thing. It's true. I know it was interesting. That 350 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: was special to say, oh yeah, you know. The song 351 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: that they chose to play was a song on the 352 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: three Strikes Law, which talks about the issues of criminal 353 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 1: justice and how they are certainly unjust. Okay, something I'm 354 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: thinking about right now. I don't know if you relate 355 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: to this is uh, you know. I get asked a 356 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: lot how am I feeling about the world around me. 357 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: You know, it's so dark. We're seeing all these stories, 358 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: and you know, we as black people, not only do 359 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: we know that these stories have already existed, but we 360 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: also come from a deep history of knowing that we 361 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: overcome them. You know, we had foreign years of slavery. 362 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: We overcame them. And I always tell people, you know, 363 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: I feel good a lot of days when I think 364 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: about it, when I let myself think about it at scale, 365 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: because I see more and more people talking about my 366 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: life and it feels good to see people fighting for 367 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: my life in the various ways that they can do. 368 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: You feel good these days as you do this work, 369 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: because it makes you feel more hopeful as you keep 370 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: the battle going for justice. Mm hmm. I'm certainly inspired 371 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: by the attention that's given. I feel that sometimes we 372 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: get in our own way. We as I'm going to 373 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: see liberals, get in our own way by letting intention 374 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: sometimes override impact how we feel about situations. How we 375 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: feel about ourselves in those situations sometimes causes us to 376 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: pause in shame of frustration. I do feel like we're 377 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,239 Speaker 1: moving out of that. But those have been a lot 378 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: of conversations I've been having un centered yourself, and I 379 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: think you'll find that you can move freer to help 380 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 1: those around you. I do feel though, yes, I mean certainly, 381 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 1: I think it's easy to say the conversations that we're 382 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: having now we're not happening a couple of years ago. 383 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: And now I think it's really you know, how do 384 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: we keep this up when it's no longer trending and 385 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: it's no longer the post that everyone's talking about Because 386 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: this work, as you mentioned, you know, this injustice trend 387 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: has lasted a long time, and I think the more 388 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: we uncover how ingrained some of these patterns are, the 389 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: harder it gets. In a lot of this work. It's 390 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: not fun and it's not public, and it's frustrating and 391 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: it's hard and it takes a long time. But I 392 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: do feel again that people are open to learning how 393 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: they can be a part of the change, no matter 394 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: how faster slow that moves. And I'm learning too in 395 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: my own growth and awareness about patients that you know, 396 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: you're not going to move anyone faster than they want 397 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: to move. I think I'm learning that politically as well. 398 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: So I do feel encouraged and I feel seen in 399 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: a different way. Tonality continues to stay on course and 400 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: its goal of delivering authentic stories and for Alex, bringing 401 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: choral music into the mainstream using the message of inclusion 402 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: and storytelling is a big opportunity, and thanks to this mission, 403 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 1: the group is catching the attention of artists like the Ork, 404 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: who Tonality recently shared a stage with in Los Angeles. 405 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: But with more attention comes more responsibility, which is not 406 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: a challenge Alex has to take on alone. With his 407 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: community at his side, collaborating every step of the way, 408 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: the vocal ensemble continues to share the stories and spread understanding. 409 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: I mean, really, Fra Tonality, what an amazing opportunity to 410 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: be brought in, you know, I think we certainly don't 411 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: consider ourselves on the sidelines. Obviously, we consider the work 412 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: that we do important, but we also we are aware, 413 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: and I'm aware that choral music is not exactly the 414 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: most trending type of music out there, So to be 415 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: able to do that on such a huge stage is 416 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: really exciting. I'm excited to see what might come from 417 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: these opportunities. I think it's so difficult to get involved, 418 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: to have organizations and different people in Like you said, 419 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: kind of the more famous identities to be able to 420 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: reach out and say, this group is doing the work 421 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: that I care about, and this is my way to 422 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: help them. And I think for York, for us, for 423 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: Keyliy Clarkson, like, you don't have to do the work 424 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: all your own. I think, you know, there are people 425 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: who maybe feel that burden that I need to take 426 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: on all the things, And I think this is where 427 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: collaboration really helps. There's a group that's during this, there's 428 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: a choire this, during this, you can get involved in 429 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: this way. So I would say it certainly would be 430 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: a great model, and I'm sure many other artists who 431 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: are involved in this work would appreciate if this kind 432 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: of collaboration became more of a mainstain. I love that 433 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: we are ending on this idea that if you yourself 434 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: are too overwhelmed to do the work, that maybe the 435 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: path forward is collaboration or community building. Is that right? Absolutely? 436 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,239 Speaker 1: When two worlds collide and are drastically different, it can 437 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: be difficult to pinpoint where you fit in or where 438 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: you can bring your authentic self. Alex found a real 439 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: need in elevating his culture the sounds of gospel choirs 440 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: that introduced him to his own passion and then turned 441 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: it into a community vessel that heals it's own members 442 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 1: and the world. And it's within the richness of this culture, 443 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: the one they know deeply and is ingrained in their 444 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: own identity, is where they find support and one another 445 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: to face what is next. This has been in the 446 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: deep stories that shape us. Find this episode and others 447 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 448 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. Don't forget to share, rate, and 449 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: review if you enjoyed this conversation. The show is produced 450 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: by Ivan Chien and mastered by James Foster. Our show 451 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: researcher is John and Raggio and our writer is Vette Lopez. 452 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: A shout out to our guest Dr Alexander Floyd Blake. 453 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Zach Stafford.