1 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: Hey, drilled listeners, we are talking today to FUMCUS leaguers. 2 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: She heads up a group in the Netherlands that's working 3 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: to ban fossil fuel ads, and I wanted to talk 4 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: to her because that is an idea that has been 5 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: floated here as well, and I was curious to hear 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: if she had the same sort of reception there as 7 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: people have gotten here, how the media is reacting to it, 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: all of those kinds of things. One of the really 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: interesting things that she mentioned was that in the Netherlands, 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: Shell sponsors a lot of educational and science and culture 11 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: events and that is one of the biggest ways that 12 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: they advertise, especially to young kids. So they are tackling 13 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: that part of advertising as well, so not just media ads, 14 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: but also event sponsorship, which would be a huge deal 15 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: if people in the US picked up because the oil 16 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: companies very much do the same thing here. If you 17 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: listened to our episode on Louisiana, you would have heard 18 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: about Shell sponsoring JazzFest there, and BP sponsoring all kinds 19 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: of museum exhibits, and Chevrons sponsoring various educational and arts groups. 20 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: Oil companies do that kind of thing to establish what 21 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: they call a social license to operate. This is an 22 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: idea that BP first formalized in a couple of papers 23 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: following the Deep Water Horizon spill. It's the notion that 24 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: the most important thing really to fossil fuel's ability to 25 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: stay alive and stay profitable is a social license. In 26 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: other words, a license from the public to continue doing 27 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: what they're doing, a sense that whatever damage they might 28 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: be doing is outweighed by the good that they do. 29 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: We're going to get into all of that and more 30 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: on today's episode coming up right after this message from 31 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: today's sponsor. I'm Ami Westervelt and this is Drilled. 32 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 2: I was wondering you could start with having you introduce 33 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 2: yourself and. 34 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 1: Talk a bit about this fossil fuel ads ban. 35 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 2: Campaign that you're working on, kind of how it came 36 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 2: about and what you guys are trying to do. 37 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 3: All right, I'm Famcus Snakers. I'm with the Dutch brand 38 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 3: of the Worldwide Fosil Free Movement, and we want to 39 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 3: put an end to the misleading of the public and 40 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 3: the politicians by banning advertisements and marketing by the fossil 41 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 3: fuel industry. And yeah, we can paign for a tobacco 42 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 3: style ban of fossil fuel advertisements, and this band would 43 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 3: prevent greenwashing, branding, sponsoring, and it basically forbids fossil fuel 44 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 3: companies to use their logos on any other place than 45 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 3: they're direct selling points, so at the gas stations and 46 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 3: at these gas stations, we want a warning, just like 47 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,119 Speaker 3: on a pack of cigarettes, so people can make an 48 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 3: informed choice. And we arrived at this campaign because we 49 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 3: were campaigning at child marketing and the influence of companies 50 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 3: like Shell in education. 51 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: That's interesting, that's really interesting. We're working on a series. 52 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 4: About Oh great, because it's so pervasive. 53 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's really Yeah, it's really struck. Yeah, it's 54 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 3: really systematic. And it started out when there was a 55 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 3: child marketing festival in the Hague, the city where I 56 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 3: live and where also headquarters of Shell is and this 57 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 3: festival it's called Generation Discover, nice name, of course, and 58 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 3: it's part of the world wide Make the Future campaign 59 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 3: by Shell. But this campaign was aimed at kids from 60 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 3: six years old till thirteen year old, and of course 61 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 3: it's all about windmills and clean energy and our local 62 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 3: city council was subsidizing it from the yeah, the difucation 63 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 3: budget and yeah, so we were campaigning against that. And yeah, 64 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 3: we dove into the message of Shell. What is Shell 65 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 3: really telling us at this festival? And yeah, we discovered 66 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 3: that between all the green and shiny technolological innovation kind 67 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 3: of messages and of course they were fully aligned with 68 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 3: sustainable development goals, and we covered that they also had 69 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 3: some climate lies. And so they made a children lay 70 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 3: a puzzle about the energy mix in twenty seventeen, and 71 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 3: of course the puzzle has fixed pieces, so there was 72 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 3: no Yeah, they didn't ask kids, how do you think 73 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 3: the energy mix will look like in twenty fifty? And 74 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 3: of course twenty fifty is the year when we should 75 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 3: all be at zero emissions according to the PIRS agreement. 76 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 3: And in the puzzle that Shell made can relate it said, 77 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 3: in twenty fifty there will still be seventy percent cool 78 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 3: oil and gas in the energy mix. 79 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: Wow. 80 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. And I asked an employee at festival, from 81 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 3: why are you telling these two children? You say, Shell 82 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 3: says it's aligned to Paris, and you say, at the festival, 83 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 3: you teach kids that in twenty fifty there's still seventy 84 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 3: percent cool oil and gas in the energy mix. And 85 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 3: then he said well, we have to be realistic and 86 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 3: we want to we don't want to lie to children 87 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 3: and yeah, so yeah, and and let's you see that. Yeah, 88 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 3: Shell wants kids too. It's really proper Conna. They are 89 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 3: really influencing kids to think in us in a way 90 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 3: and to keep yeah, oil and gas normal for for 91 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 3: decades to come. Yeah. Shell has is of course very 92 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 3: big on gas. And they had this this fuel Guests 93 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 3: to Liquid and they were advertising at it with the 94 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 3: festival and they said it's Guests to Liquid aligned to 95 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 3: the Sustainable Development Goal number seven for clean energy and 96 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 3: and of course it was also again a big lie, 97 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: and we thought we were fighting this lie at the 98 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 3: Ethical Board for for advertisements and we won so so 99 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 3: Shell had to to say it was sorry. But then 100 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 3: we thought, well, we are chasing each advertisement by Shell, 101 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 3: but this is really systematic and we can't. We don't 102 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 3: have the money to run after every lie that they tell. 103 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 3: And then we thought, well, how how did they do 104 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 3: it at a tobacco industry because they also went to 105 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 3: schools and told lives to kids and like Shell does 106 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 3: and Axon and all the others. And then we thought, well, 107 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 3: we need a tobacco law for the fossil fuel industry. 108 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, the tobacco industry can't use their logo 109 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 3: anymore and h and the same should be for the 110 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 3: for the fossil fuel industry. 111 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 4: It's interesting that you extended to, you know, sponsoring these 112 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 4: types of events too. 113 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: If we did an episode. 114 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 4: With some folks in Louisiana recently and. 115 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: They were talking about how much the oil companies sort 116 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: of embedded. 117 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 4: Themselves in the local institutions there, you know, and so 118 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 4: that a lot of the educational organizations and art museums 119 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 4: and community groups and whatever are sort of dependent on funding. 120 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 3: And it's probably the first thing they hear they learn 121 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 3: about climate change, and it's it's coming from philosophiel industry 122 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 3: exactly the way they think. 123 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so what like, what when did you start 124 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: and what has the response been so far from either 125 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: the oil companies or politicians or you know, what's you know, 126 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: how's it going so far? 127 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, we started out with a citizens initiative and for 128 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: that we need four few thousand signatures and then we 129 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 3: can really address it at at our national government. And 130 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 3: yeah that we because of Corona, our campaign a little 131 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 3: bit changed. So so we have about five thousand signatures 132 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 3: at the moment that could be far more. And the 133 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 3: politicians it's really yeah, yeah, it's it's it's not Yeah, 134 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 3: it's really a logical thing if you ask politicians. But 135 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 3: why what's a good reason to not introduce a band 136 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 3: for fossiphal advertisements? I think they can answer it because 137 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 3: really dangerous and there yeah, there's no way to defend this. 138 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 3: But of course they are all conservative and and of 139 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 3: course there are also next year are the elections and uh, 140 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 3: and maybe the Green Party wants to join the liberals 141 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 3: and so they're a little bit hesitant to speak out. 142 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's interesting. 143 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: What about have you heard anything from media outlets like 144 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: either TV, radio or magazine newspaper that that might have 145 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,719 Speaker 1: some amount of their revenue attached to these ads. 146 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a very interesting one because we we we've 147 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 3: red campaigning for the city of Amsterdam to ban all 148 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 3: fossil fiel ads in the city, in the capitol and 149 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 3: and it's really hard to make a connection to the media. 150 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 3: And I think that's partly because they are funded by 151 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 3: flossi few ads and there's the the main they're the 152 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 3: most elite newspaper in the Holland like the New York Times, 153 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 3: it's it's it's running branded content for for shell a 154 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 3: lot and and yeah, and and that's really something we're 155 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 3: going to address that within the editorial board. There is 156 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 3: already they are not and seface. So there was an 157 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 3: opposition with in the in the paper that's interesting. 158 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: So have you looked at I know, there's the one 159 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: newspaper in Sweden and then the Guardian. 160 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 4: I think they're the only too so far that I 161 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 4: have done this right. 162 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: And they've they've I mean they've they. 163 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: Have really good answers for all of this stuff. The 164 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: thing that the Guardian woman said to us that I 165 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: thought was so interesting was and like makes it so easy, 166 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: because a lot of people have been kind of like, well, 167 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: you know, where does it end? 168 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 5: Do you ban car ads and you know travel ads 169 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 5: and you know, any kind of ad could have a 170 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 5: carbon footprint associated with their right, So her response was that, 171 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 5: you know, fossil fuel. 172 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: Companies are never advertising a product. They're always just advertising 173 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: sort of a policy position or trying to make people 174 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: think a certain way about their brands. And so it's 175 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: very it's very. 176 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 4: Easily distinguished from other types of advertising because they're not 177 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 4: selling anything, so anyway, Yeah, I mean, I guess, is 178 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 4: there a sense do you have any any sense at 179 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 4: all of sort of how much revenue these folks might 180 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 4: be getting from fossil fiel companies, because that was one 181 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 4: thing that when we were talking to the Guardian, folks like, 182 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 4: I don't think a lot of oil and gas companies 183 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 4: were advertising in the Guardian anyway. 184 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: Excellent, excellent, was though, Yeah that's true. Yeah, but they 185 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: but they did, they said they it represented I think 186 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: like one percent of their of their ad revenue, which 187 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: you know, especially right now, is a lot. So anyway, 188 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: but I'm curious if like you have any sense of 189 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: of how much they might be spending on particularly. 190 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 3: Media bias not yet, not yet, do you. 191 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 4: Think it might be impacting how the media is even 192 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 4: covering your campaign? 193 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, we can't say that for sure, but yeah, and 194 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 3: because yeah, we went live during Corona Sol, so it's. 195 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: It's hard to tell. Yeah, Okay, And then I know 196 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: you emailed me initially because you had noticed shortly after 197 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: you launched that a shadowy figure was visiting your website. 198 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 2: Can you say a little bit about that, Yeah, yeah. 199 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we just launched our websites like two weeks 200 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 3: and I was checking if if if there was already 201 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 3: incoming traffic and and I saw, Yeah, amongst the familiar names, 202 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 3: I saw a name I didn't know, and it was 203 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 3: sick Watch, And I ran a quick Google search and 204 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 3: found that this company monitors and gos and grassroots activism 205 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 3: against multinationals. And then it's like big agro bit, big food, 206 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: big oil, and big tobacco, and they also teach multinationals 207 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 3: how to mute activism. So I dove somewhat deeper and 208 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 3: I discovered sick, which was founded in the nineties. And 209 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 3: for me, yeah, that was reason for mald suspicion, as 210 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 3: in the nineties all kind of denihilism sprang and was flourishing. Yeah, 211 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 3: I found that the founder of sick which was Road Blood, 212 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 3: and then I ran a search on Robert Blood and 213 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 3: I discovered this a guy named Robert Blood helped casting 214 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 3: doubt about the health hazards of smoking for British America tobacco, 215 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 3: and he even linked opposition to tobacco regulation to opposition 216 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 3: on environmental issues. And it was suggesting that the best 217 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 3: way to counteractivism is showing understanding and using fair words 218 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 3: and taking very small actions refer to that. 219 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: I get a that they are The fossil fuel industry 220 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: in general is getting quite worried about its social license 221 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: being eroded. 222 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 2: Have you guys connected with groups elsewhere in the world 223 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 2: that are looking at a similar kind of approach. 224 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 3: No, we know that that in the UK there's a 225 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 3: group and and they're trying. Yeah, they have a different approach. 226 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 3: They say, well, all all greenwashing should have a warning 227 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 3: on it, and if they don't, then well we need 228 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 3: a ban. You think a warning of also feel ads 229 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 3: is not enough because the misleading can still go on. 230 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: Yea. 231 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 3: And in Norway there was an editorial letter from the 232 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 3: Climate Youth and they also were pleading for a band. 233 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 3: But I don't know if if a campaign is attached 234 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 3: to it, if if if there are any other initiatives, 235 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 3: because I think the timing is just right, And yeah, 236 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 3: we really must step up, and yeah, we don't have 237 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 3: time for nudging every consumer to make the right choice. 238 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 3: And we can't expect children and adults to be aware 239 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 3: of misleading ads all the time, and we don't have 240 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 3: to chase every ad, so so yeah, we must be open. 241 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 3: We must open the conversation to strict legal regulation. Yeah, 242 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 3: but I think it's still a taboo because we always 243 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 3: solve things with nudging and with self regulation. But it's 244 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 3: not enough in the right of climate change. 245 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: Are you making any kind. 246 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: Of inroads with politicians that might take this up or 247 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: or even like sort of you know, legal organizations or 248 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: civil society groups or anything like that that might you know, 249 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: take this up and turn it into legislation. 250 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 3: Yes, we are. 251 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 2: We are. 252 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 3: Planning to make our own tobacco style law. So so 253 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 3: we will make a proposal. We are already talking with 254 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 3: lawyers about it, and we will present this this uh yeah, 255 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 3: this law to the politicians and perhaps some who favored this, 256 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 3: so they will propose it in parliament. And we already 257 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 3: ran a test with the tobacco law and it's just yeah, 258 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 3: the tobacco law that advanced uh tobacco advertisement. And it's 259 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 3: it's really easy to convert it to the fossil fuel industry. 260 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 3: So so it's like one of one. So it's also 261 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 3: a concept that many countries can uh can do. Yeah, 262 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 3: many countries will plead for it for such a law. 263 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 2: H h. 264 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 3: H h h m. 265 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: Okay, that's it for this time. Thanks so much for 266 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: tuning in again. We are working on a new narrative 267 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: season that will be coming out in August, so stay 268 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: tuned for that. If you are a paid member through 269 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: our Patreon, then you will get access to that entire season, 270 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: all ten episodes early, so make sure you're signed up 271 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: for that. We have pledges as low as five dollars 272 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: a month. 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