1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: If you design, engineer, build, or maintain buildings in California, 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: you can get free technical training, continuing education credits, and 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,079 Speaker 1: prepare for a range of certifications through pg n e 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: S online classes. Enroll at PGE dot com slash training. 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: Hey guys, I'm Kayleie Shore. On my podcast Too Much 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: to Say. I share my thoughts on everything from music 7 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: to Martini's, social media and social anxiety regrets to risky 8 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: text and so much more. I have been known to 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: read my literal diary entries on my show, and sometimes 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: I do interviews with my crazy group of friends. So 11 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: if you guys want to tune in, you can hear 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: new episodes of Too Much to Say every Wednesday on 13 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: the National Podcast Network, available on the I Heart Radio app, 14 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to him. Make sure 15 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: to check out Drink Chance, your number one music podcast 16 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Host n O r 17 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: E and d J E f N sat down with 18 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: artists and icon Ya, which Vulture called one most significant interviews. 19 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: I literally had to go like Danos and I don't 20 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: want to have to be the villain. But when I 21 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: went and did the Donda thing, he returned and anybody 22 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: had to sit back and watch the real leader. Check 23 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: out Drink Champ's conversation with Yea and many more legendary 24 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: artists each and every Friday on the Heart Radio app, 25 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or where ever you listen to your favorite shows. 26 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: We've always said that this series is about so much 27 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: more than just this election. As we've shown in our 28 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: first four episodes, the voting issues of our past and 29 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: how our country responds to them paved the way forward 30 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 1: shaping future elections, including the history making moment we're living 31 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: in today. But now here we are just days away 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: from the presidential election, and I don't know about you, 33 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: but I have severe asset indigestion. So before getting into 34 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: our main interview today, I wanted to dive into some 35 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: of this week's big election stories. So the good news, 36 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: particularly for a show called Turnout, is that people are 37 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 1: turning out to vote in droves. By this recording, Americans 38 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: have cast over seventy one million early ballots, which is 39 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: more than half of all ballots cast and the two 40 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: thousand sixteen election people are mailing them in voting early 41 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: making a plan for election day. It's so inspiring, I, 42 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 1: for one called a lot of my friends to make 43 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: sure they were getting their asses to the polls. I'm 44 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: calling to see if you voted or you have a 45 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: voting plan, Katherine, Yeah, calling to see if you voted 46 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: already submitted by a mailing ballot. Good. But the rules 47 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: about how and when those votes will be counted are 48 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: the subject of a political tug of war in some 49 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: key states, states like Wisconsin, where the Supreme Court had 50 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: to step in with the decision on October in another 51 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: major blow to Democrats, Wisconsin can't count mailed in ballots 52 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: received after election day if it's not close. In Wisconsin, 53 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. If it comes down like it did 54 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: last time to tens of thousands of votes. This could 55 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: very easily make up the difference between who ends up 56 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: winning this election. The Wisconsin ruling is just the latest 57 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: in a flurry of election year decisions that, rather than 58 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: grant leeway because of the pandemic is Democrats argue, have 59 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: mostly sided with Republicans keeping voting restrictions in place. Texas 60 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: Supreme Court just issued a ruling essentially shutting the door 61 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: on allowing all Texans to vote by mail during the 62 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: coronavirus pandemic and the US Supreme Court blocked a lower 63 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: court from allowing curbside voting in Alabama. Another change in 64 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: the witness signature debate for South Carolina absentee ballot. There 65 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: has been so much back and forth. Finally the Supreme 66 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: Court ruled that those signatures are required, and there are 67 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: more cases like these that could be affected by Judge 68 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: Amy Coney Barrett's swift assent to the highest court in 69 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: the land. This was a rigorous confirmation process, and I 70 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: thank all of you, especially Leader McConnell and Chairman Graham, 71 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: for helping me to navigate it. It's a privilege to 72 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: be asked to serve my country in this office, and 73 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: I stand here tonight truly honored and humbled. While it's 74 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: true that this political tug of war has always happened 75 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: as each party vised for power every election, this year 76 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: is different. Mail in voting has surged this year as 77 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: Americans seek to avoid crowds at polling places, even as 78 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: Trump repeatedly claimed without evidence that it leads to voter fraud. 79 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: Because the President of the United States has taken fears 80 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: of voter fraud to a new level, a level that 81 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: questions the integrity of the entire election process. This is 82 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: going to be a fraud like you've never seen. Thousands 83 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: of votes are gathered and they come in and they 84 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: dumped in a location, and then all of a sudden 85 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: you lose elections that you think you're gonna win. You know, 86 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: so many years I've been watching elections and they say 87 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: the projected winner or the winner of the election. I 88 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: don't want to see that take place in a week 89 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: after November third, or a month or frankly, with litigation 90 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: and everything else, that can happen years, years, or you 91 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: never even know who won the election. I'm Katie Kuric, 92 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: and this is turnout. Can you or the White House 93 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: staff where you camp anervide any evidence to back up 94 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: your claim? The mail in voting is wife with fraud, 95 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: like the example you gave the people work in your 96 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: rooms filling out a false balance. And where's the evidence? 97 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of evidence, but will provide 98 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: you with some, Okay, and there's evidence that's being compiled 99 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: today on the podcast. An interview with an unlikely critic 100 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: of President Trump. The president's rhetoric, unproven rhetoric, the fact 101 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: that there is not sufficient evidence to show systemic fraud 102 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: did flip the switch, because that's where your responsibility comes in. 103 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: Benjamin Ginsburg is a top Republican election lawyer who just 104 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: retired in August after thirty eight years and the GOP trenches. 105 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: Now he's spending his time writing op eds, and one 106 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: that got my attention back in September was a surprisingly 107 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: blunt rebuke of the president's baseless claims that the electoral 108 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: system is rigged. The sanctity of elections and making sure 109 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: they're done properly should be of deep concern to everyone. 110 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: It really is the foundation of the democracy. And for 111 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: the forty years that I'd been working in Republican politics, 112 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: I was either in a precinct or part of a 113 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: sort of a roving lawyer team in a state for 114 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: running a nationwide program where we were talking to people 115 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: in polling places to see what the problems were. Republicans mean, 116 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: probably back since the days of Tammany Hall and the 117 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: big city machines have been suspicious of fraudulent elections in 118 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: vote rating, so we've always looked for it. And every 119 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: state law has provisions for poll watchers or election observers, 120 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: and both parties should take full advantage of that, because 121 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: it's very important to have your people in a polling 122 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: place to look for problems, and so we've we've done that. 123 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: Now there were sort of sporadic instances of fraud that 124 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: came to light, but never nothing that would justify a 125 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: president of the United States, really any candidate saying our 126 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: elections are fraudulent and they're rigged and the only way 127 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: I can lose is if they cheat, because they're simply 128 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: is not evidence to support that, and so to say 129 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: otherwise is completely destructive. So I think that this has 130 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: brought us into new and in dangerous territory, and the 131 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: fact that I had been a part of those programs 132 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: for so many years meant that I thought I had 133 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: a perspective on it. And what concerns you the most 134 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: about the rhetoric we're hearing undermining our electoral process from 135 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: the President of the United States himself, Well, you see 136 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: it reflected in the polls this cycle, where a dangerously 137 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: and shocking the high number of people say they're not 138 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 1: sure that the election is going to be valid and 139 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: the results accurate. And that's really a product of presidential 140 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 1: rhetoric and certainly not a product of of any real evidence. Well, 141 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: let me ask you this, to play devil's advocate, We've 142 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: never had an election quite like this, obviously been in 143 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: the midst of a of a pandemic with really unprecedented 144 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: number of mail in ballots, and I'm curious if you 145 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: think that that might provide fertile ground for the kind 146 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: of election fraud that some people in the specifically in 147 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: the Republican Party or warning us of. Well, first of all, 148 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: I think there are two sides to the coin, and 149 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: we should we should talk about that. So there is 150 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: a huge difference between a rhetorical fusillade that elections are 151 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: fraudulent or rigged and actually being able to show that 152 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: in a way that would taint the results of an election. 153 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: And rather than than talking at a rally or UH 154 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: making threats in a tweet, you will really have to 155 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: go precinct by precinct and find specific instances of fraud. 156 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: They can find specific instances of fraud. It should be 157 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: rooted out and UH and corrected. But to be able 158 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: to actually throw the results of the election in doubt, 159 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: there will have to be ballots that are called into questions. Now, 160 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: I don't believe that there will be a specific number 161 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: of individual ballots that can be called into question, and 162 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: mass challenges have always been frowned upon in as a 163 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: matter of law and in legal proceedings. So I think 164 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: that UM feelings have been rebbed up to a much 165 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: higher degree in this election. But I think the results 166 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: in the casting and counting of it's themselves will will 167 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: be done in a way that there will be verifiable 168 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: results of the election. How can you assure listeners of 169 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: that that the systems are in fact in place that 170 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: will prevent and penalize any kind of voter fraud, even 171 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: it's if it is in fact very sporadic. Well, I 172 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: think that's I think it's true on a number of levels. 173 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: First of all is that you can go back and 174 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: look at instances of fraud that have been uncovered and prosecuted. UM. 175 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: Rarely is it enough to overturn the results of the election, 176 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: but sometimes. There was a congressional race in North Carolina 177 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: in two thousand eighteen where there were illegalities found, so 178 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,359 Speaker 1: a new election was held. There have been elections in Paterson, 179 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: New Jersey, UH in this past year where there was 180 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: found to be systemic fraud, and that was correct that UM, 181 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, I think people 182 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: can take a degree of certitude knowing that their ballots 183 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: are going to be counted in their community by their neighbors. 184 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: The US system has over ten thousand five jurisdictions with 185 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: with some degree of authority for the casting and counting 186 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: of ballots. UH. In a normal year, over a million 187 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: people will volunteer to be poll watchers. They are all 188 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: people from your communities. And um I was co chair 189 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: of a presidential commission, bipartisan commission back in two thousand, 190 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: thirteen and fourteen, where we got to spend an extraordinary 191 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: amount of time meeting the actual people from the communities 192 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: on the state, county, UH and local levels who are 193 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: responsible for conducting elections. And I take a great amount 194 00:12:54,640 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: of solitude in in knowing how good those people are 195 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: and how much they do care. Having said that, what 196 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: was your reaction, Ben, when you started hearing Donald Trump, 197 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: President Donald Trump and other high ranking Republicans start laying 198 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: the groundwork for an all out assault on our democratic process. Well, 199 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that they laid the groundwork for an 200 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: all out assault. I think they used irresponsible and regrettable rhetoric. 201 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: But again, the groundwork for an assault would require challenging 202 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: on a local level in a very granular fashion, and 203 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: the battleground states, with the exception of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan, 204 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: have all begun to process their absentee ballots already. The 205 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: mail in votes that we've been reading are coming in 206 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 1: in such heavy quantity. Uh. And there have not been 207 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: those wide skill challenge so at least so far, that's 208 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: been more rhetoric than reality. Hold that thought. We'll be 209 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: right back after this short break. My name is Hannah, 210 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: I'm Dan, I'm Ben, and we are Group Love. If 211 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: you're dealing with stress or anxiety, or just need some help, 212 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: cal Hope is here for all Californians with free mental 213 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: health resources to help you navigate this uncertain time. Go 214 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: to cal Hope dot org to live chat with one 215 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: of their incredible listeners, or call their warmline at one 216 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: three three three seven Hope. That's one three three one 217 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: seven h O p e hopeless here in California. 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Department 226 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: of Healthy Human Services, Administration for Children and Families and 227 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: the ACT Council. Introduce the Bizita You're all Things Music, 228 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: business and media podcast. Join me, Joe w Leski and 229 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: my co host Colin McKay every Wednesday, where we've discussed 230 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: the breaking news changing the music industry and what your 231 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: favorite artists and creatives are up to. Collin, who's your 232 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: favorite artist? Oh? You know? The track Factor, Demi Levado, 233 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: Rana Grande, Captain be Part Snap Back to Reality eminem Style. 234 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: Join music industry professionals, Joe and I as we pulled 235 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: back the curtain of the successes and failures of the biz. 236 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: You guys have been hanging out a while. What are 237 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: they doing? Com I guess listening to an ad Sorry. 238 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: Listen to new episodes of the biz Tape every Wednesday 239 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: on the Nashville Podcast Network, available on I Heart Radio app, 240 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Let's return 241 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: to my interview with Republican election lawyer Ben Ginsburg. Let's 242 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: talk about these legal battles. The r n C and 243 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: the Trump reelection campaign, as you know, have doubled their 244 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: legal budget to twenty million dollars. I think you called 245 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: it a torrent of voting litigation already underway. What up 246 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: with that, Ben? Well, So it's an interesting it's an 247 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: interesting phenomenon, and I think you need to take a 248 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:59,479 Speaker 1: step back to appreciate. I in two thousand ten, Republicans 249 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: did very well in the Obama mid terms and took 250 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: control of the number of state legislators and won a 251 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: number of governorships, and then increased that in in two 252 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: thousand and twelve on the state and local level. That 253 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: gave Republicans the ability to pass legislation that they felt 254 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: gave them an advantage in the electoral context. And so 255 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: they did pass any number of laws. Uh, the the 256 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 1: Clinton forces and really much more of the Biden forces, 257 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: decided that they would go to court to try and 258 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: turned back those pieces of legislation that Republicans passed. Now, 259 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: before we start clicking our tongues at the bad Republicans 260 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: for doing that. Recognized that when Democrats won control of 261 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: the Nevada legislature and governorship and the New Jersey legislature 262 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: and governorship, they have now since two thousand and eighteen, 263 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: passed the Democratic version of legislation that helps them in elections. 264 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: So it's something that both parties do. The RNC sued 265 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: the Democrats after they passed that legislation. The Republicans have 266 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: been more successful in this past decade in winning legislatures, 267 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: and so they have passed any number of laws that 268 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: the Democrats don't like, and the Democrats have gone to court, 269 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: both federal and state to try and redress it. Now 270 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: that the shoe is a little bit on the other foot, 271 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: after the two thousand and eighteen elections, Democrats have passed 272 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: their bills and Republicans have gone to court. So the 273 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: weight of the legislation is really because Republicans did better 274 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: in elections earlier in the decade. Well, this seems pretty 275 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: left up to me, Ben, I mean, why are these 276 00:18:55,200 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: election laws so malleable depending on who's in power? Can they? 277 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that's a that's our system of government. 278 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 1: But it seems a little screwed up to me. Well, 279 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: I you know, I think that they are policy choices 280 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: that get made in legislation. It happens in laws involving elections. 281 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: It certainly happens in laws involving taxes or the environment 282 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: or any other issue that you want to choose. There 283 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: are differences between the power the parties, and when one 284 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: party gets in power, they have a tendency to want 285 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: to pass their agenda. I get that, but voting should 286 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: be sacrosant, saying don't you think, well, I think that 287 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: there are there are disagreements in policy over elections. Republicans 288 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: tend to fear fraud and Democrats tend to fear suppression. 289 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: And in one of the other underlying phenomenons that's grown 290 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: in the country over the last thirty years is polarization. 291 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: So that uh, there are very few undecided voters at 292 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: this point in an election. That means that each party's 293 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 1: go to their base to try and energize their basis 294 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: to come out and so the rhetoric and the foundational 295 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: work that gets done reflects that. And that is what 296 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: I think you're saying is bad. And you know that, Um, 297 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: that's a much bigger phenomenon than just elections and voted. 298 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: Do you believe that concern about voter fraud can inevitably 299 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: lead to voter suppression. Well, I think that they are 300 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: in some ways two sides of the same coin. And 301 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: I think that not all the laws that are accused 302 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: of being suppression are suppression. And as I've written, I 303 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 1: think many of the charges about fraud or wrong. But 304 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: I think unfortunately the fraud versus suppression narrative is creeped 305 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: into the get out the vote plans for both parties, 306 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 1: and as you try and energize your base with red 307 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: nat rhetoric, which is what we do these days, on 308 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: both sides, Republicans are gonna yell fraud, Democrats are gonna 309 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: yell suppression. That probably does energize their base. But what 310 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: I think you're rightly pointing to is what about people 311 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: in the middle of the spectrum who are not hard partisans, 312 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: who really kind of went away the candidates and the 313 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: issues and vote one way or the other. They hear 314 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 1: the loud decibels about fraud and suppression and think, wow, 315 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: that's a hassle for me to go to the polls. 316 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: So I'm not going to go to the polls. Can 317 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: you give me an example of a Republican law, state 318 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: law passed by a Republican controlled legislature regarding voting and 319 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: one that might have been passed by a Democratic legislature. 320 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: I well, I mean, let's let's take a look at 321 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: at the date in which absentee ballots need to be 322 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: received by a state. So the at least the cases 323 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: that are going up to the Supreme Court are ones 324 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: where Republicans voted to have all absentee ballots received in 325 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: the polling place on election day. The current Democrats have 326 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: been convinced that, uh, it is better really for them 327 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 1: to get more votes in to be able to extend 328 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: the deadlines on the receipt of absentee ballots. So any 329 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: ballot postmarked by election day can be received three days, 330 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: six days, twelve days after an election. So a Republican 331 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: legislature would pass election day receipt and a Democratic legislature 332 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: has passed some days afterwards. If there is so little fraud, 333 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: why is the Republican party passing all these laws preventing fraud? 334 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: If if experience tells us that there is very little fraud, 335 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: so the the credibility of our elections also depends on 336 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 1: their appearance. In other words, can voters take confidence that's 337 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: that it's a system with some standards so that cheating 338 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: and fraud don't go on. In other words, the appearance 339 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: of impropriety is recognized, for example, in campaign finance laws, 340 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: which I'm sure you love to justify limitations on the 341 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: size of contributions. That's there hasn't been a finding of impropriety, 342 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 1: it's an appearance of impropriety. The same holds true in 343 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: the election contest that you do need to put some 344 00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: standards on it, whether it's showing voter identification when you 345 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: go into the polls or a signature match on an 346 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: absentee ballot to give voters after the election. Uh, some 347 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: elements have proof that in fact, all the votes are legitimate. 348 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: You outright asked Republicans to quote take a hard look 349 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: before advocating laws that actually to limit the franchise of 350 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: otherwise qualified voters. Yeah. I think that's important for Republicans 351 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 1: to do. I think that's not always enough of the 352 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: equation in in all these states. I think it is 353 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: important to to make it easy for people to vote. 354 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: To give you an example, Republicans have all of a 355 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: sudden gone negative on drop boxes, where voters can take 356 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: their ballots and drop them in a box, and that's 357 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: the way it gets uh. They get processed encountered, so 358 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: they don't have to stand in lines either in early voting, 359 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,719 Speaker 1: they don't have to trust the mails by by mailing 360 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 1: them through the postal service the drop box. Republicans for 361 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: some reason have decided that drop boxes are a bad 362 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: idea that to me is a barrier two voters. That 363 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: that makes little or no sense. And I don't think 364 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: it's right that the Republican Party in a number of 365 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: states taken that position. When we come back, being Gensberg 366 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: throws water on the president's fiery claims and the democrats 367 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: worst post election fears. I call the Union Hall as 368 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: his amount of life and death. I think these people 369 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: of planning to kill Dr. King. On April four, Dr 370 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 1: Martin Luther King was shot and killed in Memphis. A 371 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: petty criminal named James Earl Ray was arrested. He pled 372 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: guilty to the crime and spent the rest of his 373 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: life in prison. Case closed right, James Hill Ray was 374 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: upon for the official story. The authorities would parade all, 375 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: we found a gun, the James L. Raybald in Birmingham 376 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: that killed Dr King, Except it wasn't the gun that 377 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: killed Dr King. One of the problems that came out 378 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: when I got the ray case was that some of 379 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,479 Speaker 1: the evidence, as far as I was concerned, did not 380 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: match the circumstances. This is the MLK tapes. The first 381 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: episodes are available now. Listen on the I Heart radio app, 382 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,959 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Give us 383 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: every attention. We need everything you've got fast. Waiting on 384 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: Reparations would beat the podcast. Tune in every Thursday politics 385 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: and wordplay. We fight for the people because they got 386 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: us in the worst way. From the Hill Cooper, the 387 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: Bomb Bay to count Game, from the Left on Clay 388 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: to what the Neo kanse Every Thursday cop to head 389 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: off to break us off with some break because we're waiting. 390 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: Listen to Waiting on Reparations of my Heart radio app, 391 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. After thirty years, 392 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: it's time to return to the halls of West Beverly 393 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: High and hang out at the peach pit. On the 394 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: podcast nine O two one OMG joined Jenny Garth and 395 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 1: Tori Spelling for a rewatch of the hit series Beverly 396 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: Hills nine O two one oh. From the very beginning, 397 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: we get to tell the fans all of the behind 398 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 1: the scenes stories to actually happen, so they know what 399 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: happened on camera, obviously, but we can tell them all 400 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 1: the good stuff that happened off camera. Get all the 401 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: juicy details of every episode that you've been wondering about 402 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: for decades. As nine O two one oh, super fan 403 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: and radio host Sissany sits in with Jenny and Tory, 404 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: two reminisce, reflect and relive each moment, from Brandon and 405 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: Kelly's first kiss to shouting. Donna Martin graduates, you have 406 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: an amazing memory. You remember everything about the entire ten 407 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: years that we filmed that show, and you remember absolutely 408 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: nothing of the ten years that we filmed that show. 409 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: Listen to nine O two one OMG on the I 410 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 411 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: Why do you think President Trump is saying fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, 412 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,239 Speaker 1: fraud whenever he gets a chance. No, I don't know. 413 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: I'm a humble lawyer and not a psychiatrist, so I'm 414 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: not sure. I really know the answer to that question. 415 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: Come on, Ben, you know the answer, Well, I know, 416 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: why tell me the answer. I think because he wants 417 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: to be able to delegitimize the election. Play that out 418 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: for me, Katie, What would play that out for me? 419 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: How does that happen? So I don't know. I mean, 420 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: I think he said I'm not sure. Here, wait a second, Well, 421 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: let's say what if he says, Ben, let's just let's 422 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: just play this out like you said. What if he 423 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: says that there's voter fraud is everywhere, and some of 424 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: these Republican legislatures, you know, agree with him, or people 425 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: who he has in his pocket agree with him, and 426 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: then he can hold the entire country hostage by saying 427 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: this isn't legitimate. I don't know that it's honestly, It's 428 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: honestly not the way it works. That's why I said 429 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: before that there's a massive difference between talking about fraud 430 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: and trying to be legitimize an election and having the 431 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: proof of that in a state election process. And that 432 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: that's why I think the the notion that that he's 433 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: somehow going to disrupt the whole country is a little 434 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: bit overblown because like you. No one can exactly say 435 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: the steps that it would take to get from O 436 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:04,719 Speaker 1: G Everything's fraud joint to actually stopping the certification of 437 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: a vote and the naming of a slate of electors 438 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: in in any state. So it's a case of all talk. 439 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: But if you did have to hypothesize, ben, how someone 440 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: might try to go about delegitimizing uh, the election results, 441 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: How might one do that if one was so inclined, Well, 442 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: I think I think the hypothetical that I did discussing 443 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: one of those Washington Post top eds was that the campaign, 444 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: the Trump campaign would quite cynically engage in mass challenges 445 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: of voters as they went into polling places on grounds 446 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: of registration and then in the counting of ballots on 447 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: the validity of absentees as they came in. But it 448 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: would have to be mass of blunderbus challenges. So, if 449 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: the polls are to be believed, um in the key 450 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: battleground states, there are not enough challenges. Now, if the 451 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: results are considerably closer, right, and this does hinge on 452 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: the results in in any of the battleground states being 453 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: really close, then it might be possible to to challenge 454 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: enough ballots to hold up a certificate of election. Uh, 455 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: so that so that the electoral College would would get 456 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: a little bit murky. Well, what would happen if it's 457 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: close enough that you could challenge the results in these 458 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: key battleground states? Um, you know, take me through that. 459 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: Then what would happen? Well, I mean it depends on 460 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: the state. So uh, you know, there there are so 461 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: many there's so many variables and different pieces that would 462 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: have to fall into place, uh, that you would be 463 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: tempted to say it's impossible, except Florida happened in two thousands, 464 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: So not impossible, but it's really highly unlikely. Uh. What 465 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: what would have to happen is that I guess the 466 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: electoral college nobody would have two seventy votes when all 467 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: the states to coun tabulate their ballots did, and there 468 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: would be one, two or three states that were within 469 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: the margins of closeness set by state law, which is 470 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: either point two percent or point five of of the 471 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: difference between the two candidates, and so there would be 472 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: a recount or a contest. And you know, when they're 473 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: that closed, there are always ballots that that can be disputed. 474 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: But that's also part of the legitimate process if an 475 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: election is closed to go through a recounter a contest. 476 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: Do you think we i get to the point where 477 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court decides who the next President of the 478 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: United States is this go around? Well, I mean, I 479 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: think it's I think it's really really unlikely. I think 480 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: the greatest chances that will have a pretty clear indication 481 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: of a winner, if not election night, within a couple 482 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: of days of that, I think given the all the 483 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: absentees that have been found, it may take a week 484 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: or two longer. I think, Uh, you know, the election 485 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: has been so close and contested that it's been thrown 486 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: in doubt three times out of the fifty seven that 487 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: we've had. So I'm gonna take a wild guess that 488 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: there's a five point two chance of it being that. 489 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: And so in that scenario, it might end up going 490 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: to the to the Supreme Court. But that hasn't happened 491 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: often in our history, and it's a mistake to bet 492 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: against history. Let's talk about two thousand, because you were 493 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: imminently involved in the recount in Florida. Bob Balaban played 494 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: you in the movie Recount. Did you like that casting, 495 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: by the way, Ben, Yeah, I mean, I don't know. 496 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: Somebody must have been somebody must have thought I was 497 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: short and bald. Are we gonna win? Mr? Ginsburgh? By 498 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: tomorrow morning? The stains of Bill Clinton will be washed away, 499 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 1: and honor and dignity will finally be restored to the 500 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: White House. Let me just point out. Let me just 501 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: point out about the casting that I thought Bob Balaban 502 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,800 Speaker 1: was terrific, But Michael Hooley, who was by opposite on 503 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: the Democratic side, is both shorter and balder than I am. 504 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: And he was played by Dennis O'Leary as six ft 505 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: two inch guy with a full head of hair. So 506 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna throw that out as as a casting 507 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: example of the film. Duly noted, duly noted, But how 508 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 1: insane was it for you? It made by the way 509 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: it made me want to rewatch recount tonight because I 510 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: was covering that every day when I was at the 511 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 1: Today Show. I mean, was that completely insane? Yes, it 512 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: certainly was. Just remember when you rewatch it that we 513 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: won the recount and they won the movie. Well, I 514 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: guess it depends on who you were. Who are you 515 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: rooting for for president? Right? Well, I'm just saying that's 516 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: a statement of fact, but you know, I mean it 517 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 1: does show us something about the system. With this whole 518 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: difference between the popular vote and the electoral college. Does 519 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: it ever make you wonder if if the system needs 520 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: to be rethought in the electoral college perhaps gotten gotten 521 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: rid of well, I mean, that's an interesting point. I mean, 522 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: the historical antecedents of the electoral college is that the 523 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: founding fathers needed compromise between the agrarian interests and the 524 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: federalists who were more more in the cities, and so 525 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,240 Speaker 1: the electoral college was the compromise that we've had for 526 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: two hundred and forty some years. Um, it's a compromise 527 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 1: that that's worked in the sense that campaigning for president 528 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: would be completely different. Uh. And what would happen is 529 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: that candidates would go to urban areas and forget rural 530 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: areas because they're just aren't enough votes. So um, that 531 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,359 Speaker 1: would be that would be uh shift and really an 532 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: isolation of the country um as a whole. I mean, 533 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: I think that changing the electoral college and talk of 534 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: that is something that comes about when Democrats don't win 535 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: a series of presidential elections they think they should like 536 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: yess is if Joe Biden is elected, all the talk 537 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: of the electoral college will will retreat to fashionable cocktail 538 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: parties on the west side of Manhattan and maybe the 539 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 1: East side. But but I mean, it's changing the electoral college. 540 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: Those are the rules under which we play the games. 541 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: The equivalent of a football team that's that gains a 542 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: lot of yards but can't score, saying forget it, don't 543 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: worry about what's on the scoreboard. We're not counting that anymore. 544 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: The team that gains the most yards is gonna win. 545 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 1: So you can change the rules they really want to, 546 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: But changes that are done to sort of uh preordained 547 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: and outcome, which is what this bout of wanting to 548 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: change the electoral College is about doing that to get 549 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: to gain a specific political result. It's bad, bad reason 550 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,840 Speaker 1: to change an institution that's been around for two hundred 551 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:58,280 Speaker 1: forty years. On the other hand, ben if of people 552 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: in this country by already five are living in cities 553 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: um and far outweigh the number of people in rural areas, 554 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: maybe an adjustment could be made. Well maybe if that's 555 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 1: the way the demographic patterns really go, then I think 556 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: that's possible. Look, I also think that that part of 557 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: the angst that's felt about the electoral college has really 558 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: nothing to do with politics. There is a product, not 559 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: a product of politics, but a product of a forty 560 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 1: year demographic trend in this country for people to move 561 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,360 Speaker 1: into communities with people more like themselves. We are living 562 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: in much more homogeneous communities uh than we ever did before. 563 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: And so a lot of the polarization that is a curve, 564 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 1: which is really what you're talking about, is the root 565 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,839 Speaker 1: problem with the electoral college has been caused by these 566 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: sort of inexorcible demographic uh trends. You know, I'm not 567 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: sure changing the electoral college deals with that rude issue. 568 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: Let's talk about your role specifically in two thousand. How 569 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 1: would you describe it? What? What were you there to do? Uh? Well, 570 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: I was the general council of the Bush Cheney campaign. 571 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: And um uh I had because I have worked elections 572 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: and for the political party committees, done a lot of 573 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:34,359 Speaker 1: recounts on the congressional and state level, and so when 574 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: we got ourselves in a recount, um, you know, I 575 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: had helped prepare a lot of the basic materials that 576 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: you always do four recounts, and then I went down 577 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: to to Florida to help run the operations. What is 578 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: your perspective on the impact that event had on our 579 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,919 Speaker 1: election system? The most immediate impact was that in two 580 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 1: thousand three, Congress actually asked the massive infusion of of 581 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: money into the election systems. Almost all communities bought new machines, 582 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: new technology at that point, and so it really, for 583 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: a period of time upgraded the mechanics of voting in 584 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,800 Speaker 1: the country. And the problem is is that those machines 585 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: don't have a huge long shelf life, and most jurisdictions 586 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:33,839 Speaker 1: in the country now or are running running pretty long 587 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 1: in the tooth on the equipment that they're using. Not 588 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,759 Speaker 1: only that been, but they can be hacked, and they 589 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: can't be often well, I don't know. I did a 590 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 1: documentary called I Voted, and it showed how easy it 591 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: was to hack some of those systems. Some University of 592 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: Michigan students did it in a couple of days. Furthermore, 593 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: there's no way to verify and double check some of 594 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: the results. So electronic voting is kind of problematic, don't 595 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: you think, Well, I have a pride. Do have a 596 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: problem with the touch screen machines in which there's no 597 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: paper trail. Yeah, I certainly agree with that. I think 598 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: it's a real mistake. And and we're in a we're 599 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: in a bad way with our voting systems. I mean, uh, 600 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: it's really tough to get communities who have to build 601 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 1: schools and roads and feed people to appropriate money for 602 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,760 Speaker 1: for elections equipment that's used every other year, maybe twice. 603 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 1: It's just it's just not a top priority of the 604 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 1: state and local governments that actually do the funding for 605 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: for machines. So that's that's a problematic issue. And plus 606 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: the the most of the technology was put in place 607 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: before there are iPads, so there are generations of improvements 608 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,800 Speaker 1: that could take place that really are not a top 609 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: priority in state and local government funding. We started the 610 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: conversation Ben, You're saying that it's that we're protected against 611 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: voter fraud. It happens very rarely. The Republican battle cry 612 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:21,359 Speaker 1: is fraud. The Democratic battle cry is suppression. So where 613 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 1: do where do we stand in this kind of you know, 614 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:30,439 Speaker 1: yin yang world of of one side focusing on one 615 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: thing and the other side focusing on another. Well, I 616 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: think it's I think it's not ideal. I think it's 617 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:42,760 Speaker 1: a function or a symptom of of the polarization that's 618 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: part of the electorate and part of part of society, 619 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: and it is those are messages to the base voters 620 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 1: and not to the people in the middle who are 621 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 1: not fierce partisans. So that's not a way that you're 622 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: going to expand the electorate. How do you restore faith 623 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: in democracy? In your view, that is a that is 624 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,359 Speaker 1: a complicated question in this day and age. I mean, 625 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,839 Speaker 1: I suppose it ultimately goes to the quality of our 626 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:23,240 Speaker 1: leaders on a national level, and I think it also 627 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: goes to the way we act in our local communities. 628 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 1: In other words, the way I think you achieve the 629 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: goal of restoring faith in the system is to be 630 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: able to change the terms of the debate away from 631 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:46,760 Speaker 1: really polarized rhetoric and actions. And I I think, um, 632 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,319 Speaker 1: although this I would be curious about other views on this, 633 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,280 Speaker 1: but I think that that is more likely to occur 634 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 1: on a local level, where it strikes me that uh, 635 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: people working with their neighbors are more more likely to 636 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,319 Speaker 1: come up with solutions to problems and folks on the 637 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 1: national level who are retreating to their sort of polarized bunkers. 638 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:17,400 Speaker 1: And finally, do you have faith in in our election process? 639 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: Do you feel like it will withstand any potential challenges 640 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: from the president to others if the election doesn't go 641 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: their way. Well, I mean, I ultimately do. I think 642 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,719 Speaker 1: it can be a difficult period uh post election if 643 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 1: it's closed, to be sure, But I do take faith 644 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,360 Speaker 1: in having known so many of the officials on a 645 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,440 Speaker 1: local level and a state level who actually are the 646 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 1: election system in this country. And uh, while when you 647 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:58,359 Speaker 1: have ten thousand five jurisdictions in a million volunteers, there 648 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,799 Speaker 1: will be mistakes, but I certainly do have faith in 649 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: their good intents to to get this done in in 650 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,879 Speaker 1: a really professional, in good way. And I suppose it's 651 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 1: also important to remember every state's law does have proceedings 652 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,520 Speaker 1: to allow for recounts and contests, especially when the results 653 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: are closed, and every candidate, whether you like him or not, 654 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: has the right to or like her or not. Because 655 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: I was going to get to that, remember that Hillary 656 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:43,320 Speaker 1: Clinton's campaign UH intervened in Jill Stein's recounts in three 657 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,359 Speaker 1: states Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin last year at the end 658 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:53,800 Speaker 1: of November, so that contesting elections is permitted by state 659 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 1: law is one of those things candidates are allowed to do. 660 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton did it. Stacy Abrams has not yet conceded 661 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:08,640 Speaker 1: the Georgia governor's race. Never conceded, so that when impliciting 662 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: your question is that Donald Trump won't concede. That's been 663 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:17,080 Speaker 1: done before two and uh, you know, the system moves on. 664 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,719 Speaker 1: You know. After talking with Ben, I was inspired to 665 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,680 Speaker 1: rewatch recount, which I'm actually in for a nano second, 666 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,360 Speaker 1: and I have to say, given the times we're in, 667 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,480 Speaker 1: it was pretty weird. There was actually one moment that 668 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,520 Speaker 1: stood out that I had to share. Johnny Apples says 669 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,800 Speaker 1: that we have a week to resolve this before the 670 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 1: American people will lose that patient. In this scene, al 671 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,280 Speaker 1: Gore's team is debating how to conduct the recount, whether 672 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,960 Speaker 1: they should go into Democratic friendly counties and Hank count 673 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,400 Speaker 1: the paper ballots, and Warren Christopher, who was the Democratic 674 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,920 Speaker 1: face of the recount and a former Secretary of State 675 00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,359 Speaker 1: played in the movie by John Hurt, says they need 676 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,600 Speaker 1: to be careful about how they proceed because the world 677 00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 1: is watching. We are theoretically it's last great democracy. We 678 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,360 Speaker 1: cannot resolve this in a way that is worthy of 679 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,319 Speaker 1: the office we seek. What kind of hope do we 680 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:21,279 Speaker 1: give other countries wish to share our values? We all 681 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:29,160 Speaker 1: know how that turned out, But an important reminder come Tuesday. Okay, everyone, 682 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 1: My final plea, do make a plan. Whether you're dropping 683 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,319 Speaker 1: your mail in ballot off at an official location, make 684 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: sure it's not past the deadline in your state to 685 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,880 Speaker 1: actually put it in the mail, voting early in person, 686 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,759 Speaker 1: or heading to the polls on November three, Bring a 687 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:50,120 Speaker 1: sandwich or the snack of your choice, listen to a podcast, 688 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,280 Speaker 1: and if you have any lingering questions, go to vote 689 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,279 Speaker 1: dot org for voting details specific to your state. For 690 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,000 Speaker 1: election coverage and interesting and fund non political items. To 691 00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 1: sign up for my morning newsletter wake up Call by 692 00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:09,480 Speaker 1: going to Katie Couric dot com. Oh and one last thing, 693 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,879 Speaker 1: some advice to calm those election night nerves from our 694 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:16,960 Speaker 1: friend Jesse Littlewood at Common Cause. It's important to remember 695 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,120 Speaker 1: that election night is not results night. It's when we 696 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,320 Speaker 1: count every vote that we decide the results of the election. 697 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:25,960 Speaker 1: We would all like to know the results of the 698 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,840 Speaker 1: election as soon as possible, and we should strive to 699 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,239 Speaker 1: do that, but it's more important to be accurate than 700 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: it is to be fast. Okay, listeners, Good luck out there. 701 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:45,680 Speaker 1: I'll see you next week. On the other side. Turnout 702 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,840 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Media and Katie Curreic Media. 703 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,200 Speaker 1: The executive producers are Katie Curic and Courtney Littz. Supervising 704 00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 1: producers Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements, Eliza Costas and 705 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:03,360 Speaker 1: Emily Pento. Editing by Derrick Clements and Lauren Hansen, Mixing 706 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 1: by Derrick Clements. Our researcher is Gabriel Loser and special 707 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,000 Speaker 1: thanks to my right hand woman, Adriana Fasio. You can 708 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:17,439 Speaker 1: follow me all my election coverage at Katie Correct. Meanwhile, yes, 709 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: I'm Katie Correct. Thanks so much for listening everyone. We'll 710 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 1: see you next time. Kenny jameson here Bread Time, All 711 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:48,000 Speaker 1: Star in Wolf series champ Hope Vida in California. Mama, 712 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:58,759 Speaker 1: what does the chicken say? Gratte draffe, giraffe, giraffe. You're 713 00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,600 Speaker 1: not gonna get it all right. Just make sure you 714 00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,680 Speaker 1: know the big stuff, like making sure your kids are 715 00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 1: buckled correctly in the right seat for their agent's eyes. 716 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:09,120 Speaker 1: Get it right visits n h S a dot gov 717 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,080 Speaker 1: slash The Right Seat brought to you by the National 718 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,959 Speaker 1: Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the ad Council. After thirty years, 719 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,320 Speaker 1: it's time to return to the halls of West Beverly 720 00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,320 Speaker 1: High and hang out at the peach pit. On the 721 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,680 Speaker 1: podcast nine O two one o MG, visit Jenny Garth 722 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,280 Speaker 1: and Tory Spelling for a rewatch of the hit series 723 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,000 Speaker 1: Beverly Hills nine O two one oh. From the very beginning, 724 00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,280 Speaker 1: we get to tell the fans all of the behind 725 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,680 Speaker 1: the scenes stories to actually happen, so they know what 726 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,520 Speaker 1: happened on camera obviously, but we can tell them all 727 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,839 Speaker 1: the good stuff that happened off camera. 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