1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports. 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 3: Business of Sports can be intimidating for hard for a 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 3: start to break into. 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: We really appreciate when our owners are actually there, you know, 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: with us through the journey. 7 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 4: Teams ours especially been very intentional to diversify at all 8 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 4: levels of the company. 9 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 5: Maybe we're in the golden years for the NFL and 10 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 5: college football. 11 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 3: Our demographic reach has continued to explode. 12 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 6: This is going to be really unlocking the streaming platform 13 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 6: for sports fans. 14 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: Sports evaluations are rising. We'll see when they peak. 15 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 3: You don't have to be the best in your sport 16 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 3: to make a whole ton of money. 17 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio, don't you. 18 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore 19 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: all of the big money issues in the world of sports. 20 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: I am Damian sas How, along with our special guest 21 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: hosts Bloomberg Originals Chief Correspondent Ason Kelly and Bloomberg Original 22 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: Sports correspondent Vanessa Perdomo, Michael Barr and Scart who are 23 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: off this week. Coming up on the show, we talk 24 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: with a clean sports journalist and author, John Feinstein, he's 25 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: written almost fifty books, including two New York Times bestsellers. 26 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: We'll talk with them about his latest work, The Ancient Eight, 27 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: College Football's IVY League and the game they play today. 28 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 5: The one thing I know for sure is the IVY 29 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 5: League's not realigning. They will not The Ancient Eight will 30 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 5: never be the Ancient ten, or the Ancient six, or 31 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 5: what it will always be the Ancient Eight. The same 32 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 5: eight schools that form the league in nineteen fifty four 33 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 5: are the same eight schools that are in the league today. 34 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: Plus, fans of Inside the NBA can rest easy. The 35 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: show will indeed be back next season, but under a 36 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: new and interesting deal. We'll dive into that as well. 37 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: That's all coming up on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 38 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: But first, we've been following the upheaval in rsns, that's 39 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: regional sports networks, including first and foremost, Diamond Sports. Learned 40 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: that they just got court approval on a restructuring plan 41 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: that involves a streaming deal with Amazon Prime. To take 42 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 1: us through that deal and more, we welcome Bloomberg News 43 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: bankruptcy reporter Jonathan Randalls. Jonathan tell us what's going on 44 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: here with Diamond Sports. 45 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, thanks for having me on. First of all, 46 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 3: So what happened last week was Diamond Sports, which has 47 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 3: been in bankruptcy for more than a year. It looked 48 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 3: like they were going to close down at the end 49 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 3: of last year, got approved for their bigger structuring plan 50 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 3: that will see it kind of finally cut ties with 51 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 3: Sinclair and you know, cut a bunch of debt and 52 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 3: you know, live on with this new agreement with Amazon, a. 53 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: Bunch of debt. Jonathan, we're talking about eight billion in debt. 54 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: We're talking about debt owned by you know, Huon Bay 55 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: p Jim oak Tree. I mean, talk to us a 56 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: little bit about what this ruling means for the company 57 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: going forward. 58 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, it means they really get a second chance. 59 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 5: Of life here. 60 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 3: It looked at the end of last year like they 61 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 3: were going to go out of business, and what this 62 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 3: ruling means is now they get to to leave bankruptcy 63 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 3: with you know, a lot of new digital streaming rights 64 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 3: with Amazon and a lot healthier balance sheet. So, you know, 65 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: it's a pretty dramatic turnaround for a company that looked 66 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 3: pretty dead in the water at the end of last year. 67 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 7: And you know, Jonathan, what does this really mean for. 68 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 6: The future of the regional sports networks and that business model. 69 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 6: I mean, like, are we still going to see is 70 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,119 Speaker 6: this still technically are we still calling it that or 71 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 6: how does this really work? 72 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, their business model is essentially the same, So they 73 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 3: will still have a network of you know, regionals sports 74 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 3: ours ns. They'll continue to broadcast a bunch of local 75 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 3: NHL teams, you know, local NHL games in a bunch 76 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 3: of different local markets, NBA games and a bunch of 77 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 3: local markets, and about like a half dozen MLB teams 78 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 3: and a bunch of local markets. So that's not changed. 79 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 3: The biggest difference for them is and for customers is 80 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 3: if you're an Amazon Prime subscriber, you'll have the opportunity 81 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 3: to subscribe to what is now called Fan Dual Sports 82 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 3: Network through Amazon and you can get it through streaming. 83 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 8: And it does feel like it's I mean, this is 84 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 8: notable on so many levels, but the fact that it 85 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 8: is fandual, the fact that it is going to be fandual, 86 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 8: does seem to say a lot about the state of sports. 87 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 5: Were they sort of the expected you. 88 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 8: Know, I know, white knight is a term of art 89 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 8: in your business, but like, what is the significance in 90 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 8: your mind, you know, in terms of following this closely, uh, 91 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 8: you know FanDuel getting involved here. 92 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, the way that I've thought about it is a 93 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 3: lot of different things that happened in this case are 94 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 3: kind of like the canary, well not the canary, but 95 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 3: you know, it's it's a lot of bigger trends you're 96 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 3: seeing in in sports broadcasting. So obviously, you know, every 97 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 3: time I turn on a game, I'm getting bombarded with 98 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 3: you know, uh betting, these sites ban dual drafted over 99 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,119 Speaker 3: and over again. So you know the fact that their 100 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 3: their band rebrand into Franduel just seems like a sign 101 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 3: of the times. And it's the same way that I 102 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 3: felt also with you know, this Prime Video agreement that 103 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 3: there is a huge push obviously as people are cutting 104 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 3: cord to you know, get direct to consumers or get 105 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 3: over streaming platforms, and Diamond has has done both of 106 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 3: these things at a really precarious time for the company. 107 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 5: It's funny. 108 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 8: They're just just a quick note on that, Damien and Vanessa. 109 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 8: I mean, I feel like I'm channeling Michael Barr here, 110 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 8: you know, our colleague. I mean, there is that it 111 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 8: is this fascinating moment you bring up a good, a 112 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 8: great point, Jonathan, that you know, back in the day, 113 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 8: like you knew where your games were going to be. 114 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 8: Like if you were a Yankee fan like you, you 115 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 8: knew where the games are going to be. If you 116 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 8: were a Braves fan, you knew where the games are 117 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 8: going to be. If you were you know whoever you 118 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 8: had your network now with and Vanessa, this is the 119 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 8: case in women's sports as well. It's like you just 120 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 8: don't know where it's going to show up, and and 121 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 8: it is a little bit it's a it's a strange 122 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 8: feeling for a fan. 123 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 5: I think. 124 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's a weird time to be sure, 125 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 3: you know. 126 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 5: That. 127 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 3: I mean the teams that I was paying most attention 128 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 3: to are going to continue to broadcast with Diamond Sports. 129 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 3: I'm an Angels fan. They're continuing podcasts with Diamond Sports. 130 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 8: Wow, that's a brutal that's a brutal fan to be 131 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 8: my good lord. 132 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I didn't. I didn't choose it. It 133 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 3: just thrusts upon me. So but no, I mean, you 134 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 3: know it. We'll see how this all works out. You know. 135 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: I think some of the challenges that Diamond was facing 136 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 3: before bankruptcy. They'll continue to you know, but you know, 137 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 3: the good news for them is it's a lot better 138 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 3: to do that with, you know, a couple of hundred 139 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 3: million dollars in debt on your balance sheet as opposed 140 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 3: to something like close to nine billion. 141 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: So, Jonathan, as you probably know, I sit pretty close 142 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: to Steven Flynn at Bloomberg Intelligence. He kind of manages 143 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: the credit for diamond Sports. He he kind of he 144 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: is our chief research guy, our guru fishing out of 145 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: all things I'm sports related. And you know, I want 146 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: to look at this from the perspective of you know, 147 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: the creditors, and like I said, oak Tree, p Jim, 148 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, talk to us a little bit about these bonds, 149 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: you know, talk to us a little bit about you know, 150 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: who benefits and who doesn't. And in a world here 151 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: where a lot of you know, I mean, it gets 152 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: very contentious between you know, these parties, right like I 153 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: mean increasingly, so you know, talk to us a little 154 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: bit about the dynamic of of you know, who's in charge, 155 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: who owns most who owns all the bonds? Jonathan, who 156 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: owns all the bonds? 157 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, you know, the first thing I'll say is 158 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 3: the way that this restructuring happened is pretty classic for 159 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 3: any kind of big corporate restructuring. So the fact that 160 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 3: a bunch of big investment firms that owned a bunch 161 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 3: of Diamond Sports that are now going to be owning 162 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 3: the company out of bankruptcy is not novel in my world. 163 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 3: You know, it works kind of agnostic to whatever the 164 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 3: industry is. So the big the big holders who are 165 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: now primed to be the big shareholders are p G 166 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 3: I M, hind Park Capital, Discovery Capital, Hudson Bay, and 167 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 3: ALTA Fundamental Advisors. And I don't know kind of the 168 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 3: breakdowns on you know, who the who the biggest holder is. 169 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 3: But the way you know they're they're exchanging you know, 170 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 3: billions of dollars in debt for the equity is a 171 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 3: pretty pretty classic corporate restructuring maneuver. And you know, if 172 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 3: there is a loser out of this, it would be Sinclair. 173 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 3: You know, all their shares are canceled and when they 174 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 3: acquired you know, all of the Diamond Sports rsns in 175 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, and here we are at, you know, the 176 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 3: tail end of twenty twenty four and they're out of 177 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 3: the picture. 178 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: Well, the reason I go there is because, as we know, 179 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 1: private equity increasingly, you know, people such as Josh Harris, 180 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I mean here we're talking about 181 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: Howard Marks of Oak Tree. A lot of these very 182 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: very wealthy you know, managers now own their own sports franchises, right, 183 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: and so I'm curious if there's something you know, deeper 184 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: going on here, you know what I mean, Like these 185 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: guys know the business, you know, from the perspective of 186 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: a sports owner, you know, a franchise owner, you know, 187 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: getting their games aired on whatever platform it needs to be. 188 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: And I'm just curious, you know, if this is a 189 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: precursor for you know, a lot more change in terms 190 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: of how you know your average consumer you know, consumes 191 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: their their sports content. What are your thoughts there, you know, I'm. 192 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 3: Still thinking about it. I don't have kind of a 193 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 3: firm idea one way or the other about the kind 194 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 3: of what I think is like a very key question 195 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 3: to the future of all of this, you know, really 196 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 3: all I can speak to and kind of what was 197 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 3: emphasized at all the different court hearings was just how 198 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 3: good of a deal this is for Diamond And I 199 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 3: do think that it does show that you know, we 200 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 3: were talking, you know, at the beginning about you know 201 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 3: what the future of ours m s are you know, 202 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 3: is this still kind of the same business. I do 203 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 3: think it shows that there is a obviously there's a 204 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 3: viable business and there's a lot of money to be 205 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 3: made in broadcasting local sports either digitally or you know, 206 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 3: over linear television. And uh, you know, just because these 207 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 3: things are changing, and just because them sports was in 208 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 3: bankruptcy doesn't change that. You know, there's millions and millions 209 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 3: of people who are consuming you know, sports games all 210 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 3: over the country and there's a lot of money to 211 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 3: be made doing that. There there's one other thing that 212 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 3: we haven't talked about which is kind of interesting that 213 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 3: at least for the NHL and NBA games, they're going 214 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 3: to introduce kind of an a la carte option where 215 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 3: you can spend I think it's ninety nine or something, 216 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 3: so you don't want to sign up for an entire 217 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: season of games, or you don't want to you know, 218 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 3: pay prime for you know what, you know, the fan 219 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 3: dual sports, the whole experience. You can you can buy 220 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 3: an individual games. So I don't know, I can't think 221 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 3: of a game off the top of my head where 222 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 3: I'd want to do that, But I just thought it 223 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 3: was a kind of an interesting and a new thing 224 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 3: that I hadn't seen. So, you know, from my perspective, 225 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: it might be easier for my friends to catch these 226 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 3: games than it has been. 227 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: Easier indeed. Jonathan Randall, Bloomberg News Bankruptcy reporter, Jonathan, thank 228 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us here today on the 229 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports. 230 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me up. 231 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 1: Next inside the NBA Lives On, We're going to discuss 232 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: that and more coming up in just a few for 233 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: my colleagues Jason Kelly and Vanessa Perdomo. I am Damian Sasur. 234 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg 235 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: Great around the world. 236 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 237 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports, where we explored 238 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,839 Speaker 1: the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm 239 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: Damian Sassauer. Along with my special guest host Jason Kelly 240 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: and Vanessa Perdomo. Bloomberg originals Michael Barr and Scarlettfood are 241 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: on assignments. The new NBA media rights deal goes into 242 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: effect next season, bringing games back to NBC, which a 243 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: lot of fans are pretty excited about. Matt theme song 244 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: courtesy of NBC will be back. But as excited as 245 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: fans are about that, they were not excited about Warner 246 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,719 Speaker 1: Brothers Discovery losing rights to air games, since that meant 247 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: the end of longtime TNT studio show Inside the NBA, 248 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: with of course Ernie Johnson, Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith and 249 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: Sha O'Neil. But we recently learned that Warner Brothers Discovery 250 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: was able to strike a very unique deal with Disney 251 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: to keep Inside the NBA alive and well, although this 252 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: time on ESPN. For more, we turned to Bloomberg media 253 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: reporter Hannah Miller. Hannah, welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 254 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 9: Yeah, thank you for having me. So it came out 255 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 9: that ESPN will be airing Inside the NBA starting in 256 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 9: the twenty twenty five to twenty twenty six season. This 257 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 9: was part of a settlement between Warner Brothers, Discovery and 258 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 9: the NBA. Warner Brothers was suing the NBA after it 259 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 9: lost METEA rights to NBA games. And this is a 260 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 9: bit of a surprise. I mean, Inside the NBA has 261 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 9: been an institution for T and T, which is owned 262 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 9: by Warner Brothers Discovery. TNT will still be producing the show, 263 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 9: but it will air on ESPN and even ABC, which 264 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 9: are both owned by Disney. 265 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 6: Hannah Lyne at this, right, this is so interesting to me. 266 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 6: There's no money being exchanged here, right, ESPN is you know, 267 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 6: they're not having to pay Warner Brothers for this, but 268 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 6: they're giving them games in exchange. 269 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 7: Can you break this down for me? I find it 270 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 7: really interesting. 271 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 9: Yeah, so this is a barter agreement. Yeah, Warner Brothers 272 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 9: isn't getting any money from ESPN for these games in exchange, 273 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 9: though on TNT there will be some select games from 274 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 9: the Big Twelve Conference that air, and that's from football 275 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 9: and men's basketball, and so you know this they are 276 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 9: getting something out of this, and they're still able to 277 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 9: produce the show. But yeah, it is a really interesting agreement. 278 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 9: And I think it shows too that this is part 279 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 9: of a lawsuit settlement. 280 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 8: And so, Hannah, this is also a follow on to 281 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 8: something you and the Bloomberg team followed very closely, which was, 282 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 8: you know, these negotiations where everybody was kind of waiting 283 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 8: for David Zazov at Warner Brothers Discovery to be like, hey, man, 284 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 8: like this is really really crucial content. You've got this 285 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 8: iconic show and the NBA is you know, kind of 286 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 8: an important piece of content, and they, you know, I'm 287 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 8: I'm editorializing a little bit. They kind of blew it. 288 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 8: So how much does this sort of make up for 289 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 8: what seems like a pretty poorly played hand in the 290 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 8: initial negotiations. 291 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, I think this shows the magnitude of 292 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 9: what happened with Warner Brothers Discovery losing out on the 293 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 9: NBA media rights. 294 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 7: You know, this is the. 295 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 9: Culmination of months of back and forth of you know, 296 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 9: illegal battle as well, and basically all eyes within sports 297 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 9: media were on Warner Brothers Discovery and they were like, 298 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 9: you know, this is They've had the NBA on TNT 299 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 9: for decades, so the end of this partnership was a 300 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 9: huge shakeup in the sports world. And with this plan, 301 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 9: you know, Warner Brothers still has some limited content rights, 302 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 9: you know, they can use highlights, they're able to air 303 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 9: NBA games abroad, but it really is such a water 304 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 9: down version of what they originally had with NBA games 305 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 9: and inside the NBA on their T and T network. 306 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: So Hannah. For our financially savvy audience, I just have 307 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: to define a barter agreement, guys. A barter agreement is 308 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: an exchange of goods and services without an exchange of money. 309 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: I mean, why are we talking to you? I mean, 310 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: this is the Bloomberg business of sports. If no money's 311 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: changing hands, I mean, what do we really talk? And 312 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: I'm kidding, Hannah, but I'm not because Charles, like, you know, 313 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: think about. 314 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 6: It, that the old day of here's a chicken for 315 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 6: some like wheat. 316 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: I mean, but seriously, Hannah, it's not for nothing, is it. 317 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,479 Speaker 1: I mean, how much is Warner Brothers paying Charles Barkley 318 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: and Shaquille O'Neal. I mean these are huge contracts now. 319 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 9: Yeah, so with the contracts, you know, we're still going 320 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 9: to see the same hosts on inside the NBA. 321 00:17:59,640 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 10: You know. 322 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 9: Charles Barkley, he's he's signed it a contract. He signed 323 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 9: a contract extension, even though he really actively criticizedovery management 324 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 9: over the contract negotiations. Shack is an interesting one because 325 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 9: his contract actually is up in the near future. He's 326 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 9: the one who has, you know, the contract that expires 327 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 9: the soonest, so he would be someone to keep an 328 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 9: eye on in terms of like whether he's going to 329 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 9: stick with inside the NBA. But yeah, we know that 330 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 9: Charles Barkley has had issues with the network, and you 331 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 9: know it's interesting that he you know, he is staying on. 332 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 9: He will be shown on ESPN. 333 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 10: And would you say, like for the air the games 334 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 10: that Warner Brothers are getting to air, you know, these 335 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 10: Big twelve college football games and some of the men's 336 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 10: basketball games, if you had to put a valuation on 337 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 10: what these games are that they're getting, like what number 338 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 10: would you give. 339 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 7: That do you think that they're getting to steal on? 340 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 9: Yeah, I don't want to say a specific number, but 341 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 9: I will say it's been reported that these are lower 342 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 9: tier games. 343 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 7: It's not like. 344 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 4: The the most watched games that are going over, you know, 345 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 4: and it's a reminder that this, you know, Warner Brothers 346 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 4: is getting sort of crumbs here and they are getting 347 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 4: something though. 348 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 9: So that's a victory in itself. You know, a lot 349 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 9: of people were waiting to see this lawsuit carried through. 350 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 9: You know, it was unclear how strong of the case 351 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 9: Warner Brothers had against the NBA. So you know, I 352 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 9: think they're going to look at this and they're like, hey, 353 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 9: at least we're getting something, So, you. 354 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 8: Know, Hannah, it's a it's an interesting moment, to say 355 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 8: the least. In the world of media rights and sports specifically, 356 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 8: it is widely seen as the most valuable content out there. 357 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 8: And you know, to the earlier point of you know, 358 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 8: WBD just like not kind of getting it right. What 359 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 8: happens next in some of the other major leagues, you know, 360 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 8: Major League Baseball is trying to figure out its strategy. 361 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 8: What what can we expect to see in the in 362 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 8: the broader media sports world from your and the team's reporting. 363 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 9: Yeah, so with Major League Baseball, we're kind of seeing 364 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 9: stirrings there where they're looking to emulate the NBA in 365 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 9: terms of carving up rights and you know, doing specific things. 366 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 9: So with the NBA deal, you know, they signed with Disney, 367 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 9: NBC and Amazon, and Amazon you know specifically got extreming rights. 368 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 9: So you know, Commissioner Manfred has has actually talked about 369 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 9: doing something similar when a lot of the contracts with 370 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 9: you know, the national networks like ESPN, like Turner are 371 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 9: up in twenty twenty eight. We're also seeing some shifts 372 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 9: already when it comes to regional sports networks. So, you know, Diamond, 373 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 9: one of the regional sports broadcasters, has been trapped in 374 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 9: these bankruptcy pc. We've actually seen teams leave Diamond and 375 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 9: go elsewhere. Earlier in November, the Cincinnati Reds actually moved 376 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 9: over from Diamond to MLB TV, and so they'll have 377 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 9: their own regional network through MLB. So there's been a 378 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 9: lot of stuff happening here. I think at MLB though, 379 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 9: is probably the league we're watching the closest and following 380 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 9: the NBA. 381 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: Well, let's put some numbers on that for our audience here. 382 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: I mean, basically, the Major League Baseball itself controls the 383 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: media rights for seven teams right now, right, but Diamond 384 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: has another what maybe eight if you include the Mariners. 385 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: Diamond has another six teams underbell. That makes fifteen teams, right. 386 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: I mean, talk to us about what you think demand 387 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: would be for a Major League Baseball national media package. 388 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: I mean, who's bidding on that? Is that ESPN or 389 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: those you know? Is it Amazon? You know? And why 390 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: would they want that? I mean, this is baseball, It's 391 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: not like the NFL. 392 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 9: Yeah, I Mean, one important thing to pourn out about 393 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 9: baseball is that there are just so many more games happening. 394 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 9: It's a longer season, it's it's a lot more to air. 395 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 9: But yeah, I mean, ESPN, Fox and Turner are definitely 396 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 9: going to be top players and looking at and wanting 397 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 9: to maintain, you know, their media rights to malp games. 398 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 7: In twenty twenty. 399 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 9: Eight, I think Amazon will probably also you know, want 400 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 9: a bigger piece of the pie. They're pushing even more 401 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 9: into sports streaming. They're really trying to establish themselves as 402 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 9: the place to go to sports streaming. You know, we've 403 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 9: already seen in other sports like Netflix getting interested in 404 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 9: the NFL, so there's a lot to be seen. But 405 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 9: I think it's important to point out that the decline 406 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 9: of linear networks like ESPN, it's something that's been haunting 407 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 9: the sports media industry for a long time and we've 408 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 9: seen across media, not even just in sports, but there's 409 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 9: just been this push to switch over to streaming to 410 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 9: really you know, get ahead in streaming. So I think 411 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 9: that'll be important when it comes to play in twenty 412 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 9: twenty eight. 413 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, Hannah, you hit on the key issue 414 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 8: I feel like in the world of sports media, which 415 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 8: is this shift to streaming and what it does feel like, 416 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 8: and I wonder if you agree with this is that 417 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 8: let's take as a given that media rights are probably 418 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 8: the most important factor in franchise valuations across all the 419 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 8: major sports, you know, men's sports, women's sports, globally, et cetera. 420 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 8: It does feel like the streamers, even with the decline 421 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 8: of Linear, are willing to pay up because of the 422 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 8: value of sports. Does your reporting sort of bear that out? 423 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 8: I mean, do you feel like the streamers have just 424 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 8: sort of come in and be like, Okay, you guys 425 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 8: are dying, but we got this and we're willing to 426 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 8: pay up, and we're willing to compete Amazon, Netflix, Apple, 427 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 8: et cetera to make it happen. 428 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 9: Yeah, I think, you know, we have the streaming players 429 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 9: really helping to build up prices here. And you know, 430 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 9: even Warner Brothers when they were trying to fight for 431 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 9: the NBA rights, they were they were trying to match 432 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 9: Amazon's steel and trying to get you know, for their 433 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 9: own streaming rights as they build out their Max service. 434 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 9: So this is just really a common theme. You know, 435 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 9: even though Linear is struggling, you know, there's still such 436 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 9: an investment on the streaming side, Like even with Comcast, 437 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 9: they're actually really they're doing a spinoff where they're sending 438 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 9: off most of their cable channels and focusing on their 439 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 9: streaming properties. So this is something that's just across across media, 440 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 9: and we're seeing it really be magnified in sports. 441 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 1: Hannah Miller, Bloomberg Media Reporter, on all Things inside the NBA, 442 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: on Major League Baseball nationalizing its media rights. Wow, what 443 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 1: it's time to be alive, Hannah, Thank you so much 444 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: for joining us here on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 445 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 7: Thank you for having me up. 446 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: Next, we welcome a Clean sports journalist Jonathan Findes the 447 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: to talk about his latest book on college football's Ivy League. 448 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 5: So Ivy League football players were the ones I wrote 449 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 5: about last year. Make the decision to go to an 450 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 5: IVY League school, knowing they're going to have to do 451 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 5: academic work, knowing they're going to be expected to graduate, 452 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 5: knowing they're not going to play for a national championship. 453 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 5: They do know they'll be seen by NFL scouts, because 454 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 5: NFL scouts come to IVY League games because they know 455 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 5: they are good players there. But they make a conscious 456 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,479 Speaker 5: decision to take on, in effect to jobs when they 457 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 5: go to collegege for. 458 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: My colleagues Jason Kelly and Vanessa Perdomo. I am Damien Sassaur. 459 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: There's more next than the Bloomberg Business of Sports from 460 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Around the world. 461 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 462 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports, 463 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: where we explore the big money issues in the world 464 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: of sports. I'm Damian sass Hour along with Bloomberg Originals 465 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: Cheap correspondent Chason Kelly and his partner in crime, Bloomberg 466 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: Originals Sports Correspondent Vanessa Perdomo, both guest hosting this week 467 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: from Michael Barr and Scarlett fou How our next guest, 468 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: he is something. He is a claim sports journalist. He's author, 469 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: John Feinstein, and he's got nearly fifty books, including two 470 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: New York Times bestsellers, under his belt. He's here now 471 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: to talk about his latest work, The Ancient Date, College 472 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: Football's ivy League and the game they play today. Jonathan, 473 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 474 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 5: Well, it's good to be with you guys, Thanks very much. 475 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: So talk to us a little bit about the book 476 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: The ivy League. Talk to us a little bit about 477 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: what non scholarship offering schools are going to do in 478 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: a world of nil here. 479 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 5: Well, and for the moment, the IVY League has been 480 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 5: largely unaffected because they never wanted to be part of nil's. 481 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 5: They never wanted to be part of the transfer Portally. 482 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,959 Speaker 5: You do get an occasional transfer, you do get an 483 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 5: occasional player with some and IL money, but that's the exception, 484 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 5: not the rule. In fact, last season, when I was 485 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 5: researching the book, Princeton had their first transfer since Jason 486 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 5: Garrett in nineteen eighty eight. That's how rare transfers are 487 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 5: generally across the IVY League. 488 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 6: And what was it about the age and eight and this, 489 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 6: you know, this Ivy League system that you wanted to 490 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 6: write a book about. You know, when I was skimming 491 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 6: through your book, I one of the things that struck 492 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 6: me was how you said the age and eight is 493 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 6: something that will never change. And because when you look 494 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 6: at the Big ten and the way it's expanded and 495 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 6: the way that Big twelve is retracted and all these things, 496 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 6: those schools and conferences are so fluid, but this will 497 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 6: always stay the same. 498 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 7: So why was you know, what was the inspiration behind 499 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 7: this book. 500 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 5: Well, that was exactly it, Vanessa. To be honest with you, 501 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 5: I grew up going IVY League football games in New 502 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 5: York City at Columbia. They were terrible, but I enjoyed 503 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 5: writing the subway to the tip of Manhattan and walking 504 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 5: three blocks to Bakerfield. So I always followed the IVY League. 505 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 5: And as you mentioned, realignment in college football, which seems 506 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 5: to happen every fifteen minutes. The one thing I know 507 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 5: for sure is the IVY League's not realigning. They will not. 508 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 5: The Ancient eight will never be the Ancient ten, or 509 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 5: the ancient six, or what it will always be the 510 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 5: ancient eight. The same eight schools that formed the league 511 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 5: in nineteen fifty four are the same eight schools that 512 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 5: are in the league today. They have rules that are 513 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 5: different from the power schools. They only play ten games, 514 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 5: they play ten weeks in a row, there are no 515 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 5: bye weeks. They're not the champions are not allowed to 516 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 5: participate in postseason, which I disagree with. Every other IVY 517 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 5: League sport sends its champion to postseason. You know, Princeton 518 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 5: just two years ago within the Sweet sixteen in basketball. 519 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 5: So that's one thing I do disagree with, but for 520 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 5: the rest of it, it's like a throwback to the 521 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 5: old days when you played in the same league, you 522 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 5: had the same rivals, and you didn't play as many 523 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 5: as sixteen or seventeen games as teams in the championship 524 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 5: game will play this year with the twelve team playoff. 525 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 8: And so John, let's talk about the playoff and what's 526 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 8: happening in the sort of big world of college football. 527 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 8: What's the endgame here in your estimation? You know, there's 528 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 8: a lot of talk about big time college football breaking 529 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 8: off into its own thing. You know, college sport's better 530 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 8: than anyone. What do you think happens here? 531 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 5: Well, if I knew what the end game was going 532 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 5: to be, I would tell you I would write a 533 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 5: book about it, and then I'd retire because I'd be 534 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 5: rich because none of us knows what the endgame is. 535 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 5: That's again, that's one of the reasons why I wanted 536 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 5: to write about the IVY League, because I know I 537 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 5: knew what I was getting. I was getting bright kids. 538 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 5: I was getting kids who would stay at the same 539 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 5: school for four years and graduate. I was getting kids 540 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 5: who are good football players. The IVY League has about 541 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,719 Speaker 5: fifteen players every year, we'll make it to the NFL 542 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 5: and play in the NFL. So the end game is 543 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 5: uncertain because I don't think that people running the sport 544 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 5: have any idea where going. I think you'll see some 545 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 5: form of employees, which is going to create all sorts 546 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 5: of taxic issues. You're going to see the SEC and 547 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 5: the Big Ten continue to dominate the sport as they 548 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 5: are now. In a sense, the power schools have already 549 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 5: broken off. I mean, the IVY League, for example, plays 550 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 5: in the FCS Football Championships Series, and that's not changing. 551 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 5: Those teams are going to be pretty much the same. 552 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 5: They might jump leagues, not the IVY League, but in 553 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 5: the FBS where the power schools play. Everything is constantly changing. 554 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 5: And you know in basketball you're seeing top notch coaches 555 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 5: retire very young. Tony Bennett just did it, Jay Wright 556 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 5: did it a couple of years ago, Mike Bray did 557 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 5: it from Notre Dame. And the reason I know all 558 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 5: three of them, the reasons the same. They don't feel 559 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 5: like they're coaches anymore. They feel like they're CEOs because 560 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 5: they have to raise money for nils, they have to 561 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 5: bid on players, they have to deal with agents, even 562 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 5: with high school kids. Wants to do that, and the 563 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 5: IVY League you don't have to do that. That's the 564 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 5: good news. 565 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: You mentioned earlier that you've been researching this book the 566 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: ancient eight college football's IVY League and the game they 567 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: played today for at least the past year, and probably 568 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: a lot longer than that. But what a year it's 569 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: been in the IVY League. And I just have to 570 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: ask you this because you know, you were on the 571 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: ground there, you know, with the protests and all that's 572 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: been going on over. 573 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 2: The past year. 574 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: You know, three presidents from Clutting Gay to Liz McGill 575 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: to President Chefik at Columbia, they've all, you know, resigned 576 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: off the back of some of the stuff. What was 577 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: what was the vibe like on campus when you were 578 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: researching this book? I mean, did that find its way 579 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: into your calculus at all? 580 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 5: Well, it did, although most of it happened after the 581 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 5: season was over the sea twenty twenty three when I 582 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 5: researched the book. So I did work it into the 583 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 5: book even though it wasn't part of the football season itself. 584 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 5: But that's the thing. These are campuses that are always 585 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 5: going to be changing and are always going to be 586 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 5: aware of what's going on in the real world. It's 587 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 5: not like you're shut off the way a lot of 588 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 5: college at athletes are. I would bet you. Then, in 589 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 5: the FBS schools, twenty twenty five percent voted in November. 590 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 5: Maybe in the Ivy League schools, I would think most 591 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 5: kids voted. They were all very aware politically, they all 592 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 5: knew what was going on. In fact, one of the 593 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 5: kids I wrote about, Jalen Travis at Princeton, grew up 594 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 5: in Minneapolis, about ten minutes away from where George Floyd 595 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 5: was murdered. He was a high school senior when it happened, 596 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 5: and he and another friend of his, also a high 597 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 5: school senior, formed a foundation to raise money so that 598 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 5: inner city kids could get the education they needed to 599 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,959 Speaker 5: go to college. Now, think about that, two eighteen year 600 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 5: old kids being able to put something like that together. 601 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 5: You're just not going to find that in very many athletes. 602 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 5: But you do find very involved athletes when you're in 603 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 5: the Ivy League, kids who if you bring up what 604 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 5: happened in yesterday's news, they'll know exactly what you're talking about. 605 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 6: You know, I'm curious if you feel that that is 606 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 6: particular to IVY Leagues' schools just because of the entire 607 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 6: student body, Like you were saying, obviously they're there for 608 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 6: a reason, they're extremely intelligent. Or do you think that 609 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 6: anything with the NIL landscape, all these other things that 610 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 6: other athletes that other schools have going on, has something 611 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 6: to do with that as well, that they're distracted in 612 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 6: other ways. 613 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 5: Well, first of all, I'm not trying to claim that educated, 614 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 5: smart kids are unique to the IVY League. Obviously that's 615 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 5: not true. But in the case of the IVY League, 616 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 5: you have it in all eight schools. The other thing 617 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 5: is that there are kids who play football, basketball, whatever 618 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 5: across the country who are aware of what's going on 619 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 5: in the world. But IVY League athletes, IVY League football 620 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 5: players who are the ones I wrote about last year 621 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 5: make the decision to go to an IVY League school, 622 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 5: knowing they're going to have to do academic work, knowing 623 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 5: they're going to be expected to graduate, knowing they're not 624 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 5: going to play for a national championship. They do know 625 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 5: they'll be seen by NFL scouts because NFL scouts come 626 00:33:58,320 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 5: to IVY League games because they know they're a good 627 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 5: players There but they make a conscious decision to take on, 628 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 5: in effect, two jobs when they go to college class 629 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 5: work and football because they're very devoted to football. They 630 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 5: care greatly about football. They get very emotional about the 631 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 5: games that they're playing, just like athletes that the big 632 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 5: time schools do. So they make a conscious decision, this 633 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 5: is what I want my college life to be. Some 634 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 5: shy away from it. Some who are recruited by Ivy 635 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 5: League schools say I don't want to work that hard 636 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 5: in class. I want to focus more on my football, 637 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 5: and there's nothing wrong with that. And some of them 638 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 5: will make it to the NFL and make a lot 639 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 5: of money, but a lot of them won't, which is 640 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 5: the IVY League kids. When they graduate, regardless of what 641 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 5: their future in football is, which usually is not much, 642 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 5: they do have a future on Wall Street, in law 643 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 5: school and med school, whatever you might want to say. 644 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 5: And that's why they make the decision to take the 645 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 5: harder job, the harder road by going to an IVY 646 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 5: League school. They know what it's about when they get there. 647 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 7: It's so interesting you say that you know Jo because 648 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 7: I was a D one athlete. 649 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 6: I played college soccer and obviously as a women's athlete 650 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 6: and a soccer player. That was just a reality. You know, 651 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 6: you didn't have a choice to not be a student 652 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 6: and an athlete both. And I always felt this sense of, 653 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,760 Speaker 6: you know, the men's basketball team and big college football teams, 654 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 6: they are at that disadvantage where they can kind of 655 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 6: just say, eh, I'm just going to take it easier 656 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 6: because it is easier on them. But they have a 657 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,720 Speaker 6: disadvantage that they when they come out of school, they 658 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 6: don't have the same opportunities. And I think it's interesting 659 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 6: when we're thinking about them breaking away into their own thing. 660 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 7: The Power five conferences almost seem like it is its 661 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 7: own thing already. 662 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 6: Do you think that there's a way where they break 663 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 6: away become what semi professional or whatever it is, And 664 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,760 Speaker 6: how would that affect the rest of the student body, 665 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 6: like let's say a women's college soccer player at a 666 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 6: you know, Alabama. 667 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 5: Well, I think, first of all, we're already there with 668 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 5: the it's now the Power four or four and a half, 669 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 5: depending on how you viewed Fact twelve. At the moment, 670 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 5: they've already broken away with the college football playoff. The 671 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 5: NCAA has no say over that playoff, and who plays 672 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 5: and the money that ESPN plays to those schools, which 673 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 5: is a lot. So my concern is if they the 674 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 5: major schools completely break off in all sports. I think 675 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 5: the NCAA basketball tournament will be heard. I think it's 676 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 5: good when an IVY League school like Princeton makes it 677 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 5: to the Sweet sixteen in basketball, I think that's good 678 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 5: for the game that it's not always, you know, the 679 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 5: same power schools dominating that there are upsets in the 680 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 5: first round. And I do worry for non revenue sports 681 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,439 Speaker 5: like soccer, where will the money come from if there's 682 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,280 Speaker 5: a breakoff and the total school, not just the football 683 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 5: program isn't making as much money as it's making right now. 684 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 5: Right now, TV dollars are just completely out of control, 685 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 5: and as long as they are, the non revenue sports 686 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,439 Speaker 5: will continue to be funded. But if that, if that ends, 687 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 5: or if it's cut back, which is more likely, then 688 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 5: I think it would be very bad. And it would 689 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 5: also be tough on IVY League schools, who, as we 690 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 5: mentioned earlier in the conversation, do not have full athletic scholarships. 691 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 5: Scholarships are based on financial need, and if that were 692 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 5: to happen, it might be more difficult for the Ivy 693 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 5: League schools to justify funding those all sports. Not that 694 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 5: they don't have the money. They have bigger endowments than anybody, 695 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 5: but they don't like to spend their endowments on sports. 696 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: John Feinstein's sports journalist and author. I mean a good 697 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: walk spoiled. I mean what a book that was followed 698 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: pro golfers Greg Norman and Tom Watson in ninety three 699 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 1: ninety four. And we can't forget Season on the Brink, Chason. 700 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,879 Speaker 1: I mean where you know Night, Oh incredible Bob Knight, 701 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 1: the Hoosiers, and look, you gotta pick up the ancient 702 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: eight college Football's Ivy League and the game they play. 703 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: John Feinstein, thank you for joining us here today on 704 00:37:58,840 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 705 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 5: Thanks for having me, and I will say dealing with 706 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 5: the eight Ivy League football coaches was a little bit 707 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 5: different than dealing with. 708 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: Bobna and that does it for this edition of the 709 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports. Our special thanks to Bloomberg Originals 710 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: Chief correspondent Jason Kelly and Bloomberg Original Sports correspondent Vanessa 711 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: Prodoma for joining us, and thank you for joining us 712 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: as well. Tune in again next week for the latest 713 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,720 Speaker 1: in the stories moving big money in the world of sports. 714 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio 715 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 1: around the world, and don't forget to catch our podcast 716 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: on all your podcast platforms.