1
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,480
Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. Hello, and welcome to Cool People, the

2
00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,760
Speaker 1: Cool Cool Thing with the snow. There's only forward. I'm

3
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 1: your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and this is a podcast about

4
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:15,840
Speaker 1: cool people did cool stuff with this title that probably

5
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,040
Speaker 1: is the same as what I just said. And my

6
00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,599
Speaker 1: guest today is the host of cool Stuff your mom

7
00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,840
Speaker 1: wasn't cool enough to know about, Samantha mcfae.

8
00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,400
Speaker 2: I love this. Thank you so much. I'm so glad

9
00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,440
Speaker 2: to be back on with y'all. This makes me Yeah,

10
00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:33,520
Speaker 2: this is well.

11
00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,240
Speaker 1: I guess I should do the rest of the introductions

12
00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,040
Speaker 1: with me. Today is my producer, who's always been my producer.

13
00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,519
Speaker 1: We've always been at war with Oceania. Okay, No, I

14
00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,519
Speaker 1: shouldn't do that make people think that Sharen is a

15
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,680
Speaker 1: permanent producer. Sharen is standing in today for Sophie because

16
00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,560
Speaker 1: Sharen is awesome. The producers sharene Hi Serene.

17
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,720
Speaker 3: I'm technically a producer because I do book the show,

18
00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:53,520
Speaker 3: so I am a producer.

19
00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:54,440
Speaker 1: That's true.

20
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,920
Speaker 2: She's booked all my shows for you. Hell yeah, I

21
00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 2: think that's something I have done.

22
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,520
Speaker 3: No, but I'm here and I like the three of us.

23
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,400
Speaker 3: I feel like this is a very safe space. You

24
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,039
Speaker 3: know what I mean like, I feel very safe with

25
00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,280
Speaker 3: both of y'all. This is a nice little trio we have.

26
00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like it. Let's just stay here.

27
00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:14,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, just stay, just just talk.

28
00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is now a twenty four to seven live podcast.

29
00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:19,480
Speaker 1: You'll be able to hear us sleep.

30
00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,160
Speaker 2: I grind my teeth. I'm sorry in advance.

31
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,680
Speaker 1: It's fine. I can go back to sleep.

32
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:33,120
Speaker 2: Danny stress. Yeah, it's attress anyway.

33
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,360
Speaker 1: Well, the other person who has to stress about the

34
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:41,199
Speaker 1: show is Daniel, our audio engineer. Hi, Daniel, Hi, Danel Trian.

35
00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:42,840
Speaker 1: We can't go forward and take say high Danel.

36
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,840
Speaker 3: Oh Hi, Sorry, I really had a brain fart there.

37
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:47,520
Speaker 3: I haven't said Oh no, I don't hate that. I'm

38
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,040
Speaker 3: saying that again. I said that. That's the second time

39
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 3: I said that week.

40
00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,360
Speaker 2: Brain farts out, Uh fog, brain fall.

41
00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:58,880
Speaker 3: No, no, no glitching. I glitched glitch high Danel, love you, Daniel,

42
00:01:59,280 --> 00:01:59,880
Speaker 3: Thanks Danel.

43
00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,080
Speaker 2: I met Danel one time, the only time I've ever

44
00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,280
Speaker 2: been in the studio in California. A little helped us out.

45
00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was the best man. Daniel's the man.

46
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,840
Speaker 2: I bet he doesn't remember us, though, I bet Daniel does.

47
00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,239
Speaker 3: I would bet money he's the best, he remembers.

48
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:14,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hi, Daniel.

49
00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,480
Speaker 1: Our theme music was written for us by unwoman. And

50
00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,519
Speaker 1: this is part two of a two parter, although usually

51
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:24,919
Speaker 1: I say that to be like, well, what the fuck

52
00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:26,519
Speaker 1: are you doing? There's no way you coul possibly understand

53
00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:27,960
Speaker 1: what I'm about to talk about unless you listen to

54
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,840
Speaker 1: part one, And this time is not really true because

55
00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:35,840
Speaker 1: I'm telling two distinct stories on a similar topic. Last time, well,

56
00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,840
Speaker 1: in some ways, it's just a continuation of the thing

57
00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:39,320
Speaker 1: that we talked about a year and a half ago

58
00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,240
Speaker 1: when we talked about the Jam Collective, and then on

59
00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,920
Speaker 1: Monday we talked about the groups of lay organizations in

60
00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,640
Speaker 1: Germany that performed a million abortions a year and never

61
00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,400
Speaker 1: got written about in English history. And now we're going

62
00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 1: to talk about California, which no one ever talks about. Actually, yeah,

63
00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,960
Speaker 1: where is this? It's this state they made up to

64
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,280
Speaker 1: feature in a new movie called Civil War that comes

65
00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:08,880
Speaker 1: out this year.

66
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,840
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's a separate episode altogether.

67
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:16,200
Speaker 1: Are you all going to do an episode sharing's the

68
00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 1: host of It Could Happen Here, which actually talks about

69
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,360
Speaker 1: current events unlike me? Are you all going to talk

70
00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:21,320
Speaker 1: about the movie Civil War?

71
00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:22,799
Speaker 3: I mean, I would love to. I don't know, I've

72
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,760
Speaker 3: got I think it's a Robert question, to be honest. Yeah, okay,

73
00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,320
Speaker 3: but that would be really fun. I would like your

74
00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,720
Speaker 3: take on it, too, though I have some takes. I

75
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:31,240
Speaker 3: have some takes.

76
00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,960
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, California, many people have heard of it.

77
00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,640
Speaker 1: You are doing something right or at least interesting when

78
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,800
Speaker 1: history remembers you as part of the Army of Three,

79
00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,840
Speaker 1: or if people remember you as the first abortion rights

80
00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,360
Speaker 1: activists in the US, which again we talked about this

81
00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,680
Speaker 1: last time. I am one hundred percent certain these are

82
00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,920
Speaker 1: not the first abortion rights activists in the United States.

83
00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,560
Speaker 1: But you know what, you're doing something right. If people

84
00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,680
Speaker 1: remember you that as that, it's not their fault they

85
00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:07,200
Speaker 1: got called that. Pat McGinnis, Rowenna Gerner, and Lana Clark Fallan.

86
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,840
Speaker 1: In the mid nineteen sixties in the Bay Area, they

87
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 1: set up two complementary organizations. One had the catchy name

88
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,599
Speaker 1: really just I'm just so over how people name things.

89
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,520
Speaker 1: I guess that's what it really comes down to. They

90
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,520
Speaker 1: set up the Society for Humane Abortion, which is fine,

91
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,880
Speaker 1: it's a SAHA, and they also set up the Association

92
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:33,480
Speaker 1: to Repeal Abortion Laws. Errol and that's fine. Those are

93
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,880
Speaker 1: fine names. Saha was the above ground advocacy arm and

94
00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,839
Speaker 1: Errol did the crimes when in doubt. Every movement is

95
00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,599
Speaker 1: stronger when the illegal and legal components work together to

96
00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,240
Speaker 1: support each other. And I am the first person to

97
00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,440
Speaker 1: ever come up with that idea, get it because first,

98
00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:56,040
Speaker 1: and I'm totally the first person should be credited. Yeah, absolutely,

99
00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,520
Speaker 1: every now and then people like credit like me with

100
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,719
Speaker 1: having and I'm like, no, I just repeat the stuff

101
00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:10,120
Speaker 1: that I've learned from people anyway. Yeah, totally, I invented everything.

102
00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,160
Speaker 1: It started with Pat. Pat was a white woman who's

103
00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,760
Speaker 1: raised Catholic and poor in Ithaca, New York. She was

104
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,640
Speaker 1: born in nineteen twenty eight. She joined the army, and

105
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,600
Speaker 1: she got in trouble for hanging out with a black soldier.

106
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:24,800
Speaker 1: I think they were fucking. It was like fraternizing with

107
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,880
Speaker 1: a black soldier. I assume everything is cod for fucking.

108
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,159
Speaker 1: I don't know whether that's true or not. It's fair,

109
00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,000
Speaker 1: and so they like punish her by sending her off

110
00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,760
Speaker 1: to some day Like when the state controls you because

111
00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,120
Speaker 1: you're in the army, they can just be like, now

112
00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,120
Speaker 1: you've got to go work over there or whatever. She

113
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,200
Speaker 1: got out of the army, she moved to the Bay

114
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,240
Speaker 1: and by nineteen sixty one she was an abortion rights activist.

115
00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,040
Speaker 1: And the way she started doing this she just started

116
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,960
Speaker 1: standing on street corners and talking to strangers about abortion.

117
00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,400
Speaker 1: She just was like, Hey, you want to talk about

118
00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,560
Speaker 1: how it shouldn't be illegal and shouldn't be dangerous to

119
00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,160
Speaker 1: have abortions in this country? And people would be like, yeah, okay,

120
00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,480
Speaker 1: and like, what an it's not outdated? What an old

121
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,599
Speaker 1: fashioned but not outdated way to start making change?

122
00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:09,279
Speaker 2: You know?

123
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:10,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

124
00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,279
Speaker 2: I feel like she was taking on like old school

125
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,840
Speaker 2: preachers who used to just standing in the middle of

126
00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 2: the street and start screaming at you about going to hell.

127
00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:18,400
Speaker 2: So she's like, you know what, let me try this

128
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,600
Speaker 2: in my tactic. Let me see do you know about

129
00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,920
Speaker 2: abortion and why should be uh legal?

130
00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,640
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah. And it wasn't quite soapboxing, which is that weird.

131
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,120
Speaker 1: I'd learned so much about soapboxing from doing the show,

132
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,080
Speaker 1: because you have people talk about the like literally stand

133
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,159
Speaker 1: out a soapbox. It turns out that was like that

134
00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,159
Speaker 1: was just twitter before you had twitters. You would go

135
00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,159
Speaker 1: to the public square and there'd be like forty people

136
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,359
Speaker 1: standing on soapboxes. You just go walk around like people

137
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,480
Speaker 1: were really bored before the invention of TV.

138
00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,400
Speaker 2: You know, they do that at college campuses, or they

139
00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,000
Speaker 2: did when I was in college, and that's been that's

140
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,320
Speaker 2: been a minute. That could be around the same time.

141
00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,640
Speaker 1: But they did that too. There was probably hackey sacking,

142
00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:53,320
Speaker 1: did redude.

143
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,480
Speaker 2: Oh they were yelling about everybody going to hell oh oh,

144
00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,159
Speaker 2: but some of them may be hacky sacking that problem.

145
00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,360
Speaker 2: That's about the time frame. Okay, okay, oh, I feel outdated.

146
00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just assume that everyone still does

147
00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,240
Speaker 1: exactly the same things that we did when we were kids.

148
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,320
Speaker 2: Thank you, and I from the same generation, so I

149
00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 2: appreciate that you're kind of on point with my life.

150
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,240
Speaker 2: And I feel both sad and validated.

151
00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

152
00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:17,800
Speaker 2: So.

153
00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,840
Speaker 1: Pat By nineteen sixty two, she starts a group. I

154
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:23,480
Speaker 1: have a feeling this group is just her, but I'm

155
00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,800
Speaker 1: not one hundred percent certain. The Citizens Committee for Humane

156
00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:31,080
Speaker 1: Abortion Laws, And basically her argument was, and this is

157
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,600
Speaker 1: an entirely solid argument, fewer people will die if abortion

158
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,440
Speaker 1: is legalized, and also what if people owned the inside

159
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,240
Speaker 1: of their own bodies, Like she literally phrased it, as

160
00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,360
Speaker 1: like people own their own internal organs.

161
00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:47,239
Speaker 2: I'm like, points made.

162
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, And

163
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,559
Speaker 1: so she started doing media talks and conducted opinion polls

164
00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 1: and shit, and she ran a service where people could

165
00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 1: ask her about abortion by mail, and so like, I

166
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,760
Speaker 1: get it why she's called the first abortion tried activist,

167
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,840
Speaker 1: and like, I'm sure I've covered a lot of people

168
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,360
Speaker 1: talking about fairly similar things in the nineteenth century or whatever.

169
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,320
Speaker 1: But she was just like on the ground working as

170
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,800
Speaker 1: an activist alone, and like, more fucking power to her.

171
00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,640
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty four, Rowenna Gerner showed up at her

172
00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 1: apartment just like cold called stranger and was like, hey,

173
00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:22,280
Speaker 1: I hear you're the lady trying to do something about

174
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:23,200
Speaker 1: abortion that rules.

175
00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:24,920
Speaker 2: Can I help make friends?

176
00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:25,080
Speaker 3: Oh?

177
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:25,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

178
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:30,160
Speaker 1: The subtext here is that she knew where the apartment was.

179
00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,320
Speaker 1: I think that the like asking questions by mail was

180
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:38,120
Speaker 1: just out of her own apartment. I cannot imagine. I

181
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,520
Speaker 1: think that the anti abortion movement didn't really pick up

182
00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,280
Speaker 1: speed until the seventies and eighties, you know, because it

183
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,880
Speaker 1: was already illegal. It's so hard for me to wrap

184
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:50,640
Speaker 1: my head around someone not using a po box for

185
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,240
Speaker 1: asking me about crime. Here's my address, you know, right.

186
00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,160
Speaker 2: I wonder she thought that much through as much as like, eh,

187
00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,520
Speaker 2: this is gonna give everybody a chance to talk to me.

188
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:01,640
Speaker 2: So I was really going to do this. We'll see.

189
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's working great. And the day she shows up,

190
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,200
Speaker 1: she sits down and starts helping with the mail and

191
00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,760
Speaker 1: the two started referring people to abortionists and now they're

192
00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,480
Speaker 1: doing the crime part. They built a kit that was

193
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:20,560
Speaker 1: a detailed reviews of every provider available, many of whom

194
00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:25,240
Speaker 1: were like in Mexico, Puerto Rico, and Japan. Japan actually

195
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,920
Speaker 1: was a routine procedure at this point, whereas in Mexico

196
00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,360
Speaker 1: and Puerto Rico is illegal, but it was like easier

197
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,760
Speaker 1: to do, you know. And they provided guidance for how

198
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,840
Speaker 1: to navigate the whole process. That was like here's what

199
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,520
Speaker 1: to do in the cab. There's going to be people

200
00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,120
Speaker 1: as soon as you ask for this address, the cab

201
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 1: driver is going to try and like take you to

202
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,080
Speaker 1: a different provider because he gets a cut if you

203
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:46,960
Speaker 1: go to a different provider. Here's how to tell him

204
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,800
Speaker 1: that you're not don't want to go to someone else,

205
00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:54,400
Speaker 1: you know, and coached people through the process of controlling

206
00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:59,360
Speaker 1: their bodies. When they got reports of providers threatening or

207
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,560
Speaker 1: sexually assault patients or whatever, they were like, they'd write

208
00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:04,600
Speaker 1: to the provider who was acting up and be like,

209
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,679
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be a shame if we started putting your

210
00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,320
Speaker 1: home address and full legal name in our document instead

211
00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,560
Speaker 1: of this you know, other place and basically threatened doctors

212
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 1: in the good behavior? Yeah, like it it never works. Yeah.

213
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:25,360
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty five, Lana Clark Fallon joined and met

214
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,800
Speaker 1: like literally there was like out pamphleting in the rain,

215
00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,840
Speaker 1: and this woman came up and was like, y'all, rule,

216
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 1: can I join the meet?

217
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,599
Speaker 3: Cues that are happening in this in this history are incredible.

218
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 3: They're great.

219
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you want to meet your people, spend years standing

220
00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,720
Speaker 1: on street corners telling oh, that's really sad, but it worked.

221
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,559
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know if that applies today, kids,

222
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,920
Speaker 2: So don't necessarily do that right now, No wrong.

223
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,120
Speaker 1: Just stand on the corner and talk about the need

224
00:10:55,160 --> 00:11:00,760
Speaker 1: for crime, like my upcoming pamphlet the need for ECOCEP anyway, so.

225
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:02,160
Speaker 2: It's gotta be on the nose.

226
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. So then they built a legal strategy. They were like,

227
00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,600
Speaker 1: we don't like that this is illegal. How do we

228
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,800
Speaker 1: make it legal? And they were like, well, we don't

229
00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,880
Speaker 1: have like a ton of resources, and let's get ourselves

230
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,560
Speaker 1: arrested and we'll take it to court and be like

231
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,920
Speaker 1: what we're doing is not fucking wrong, which is a

232
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,559
Speaker 1: common legal strategy from for bottom up legal change right

233
00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,120
Speaker 1: top down. You can just hire people to go bribe people.

234
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,600
Speaker 1: And I almost aid Hollywood, but what's the Washington. And

235
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,040
Speaker 1: so they wanted to get arrested so they can have

236
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,240
Speaker 1: their day in court. And so they they wanted to

237
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,720
Speaker 1: set precedent about how abortion needed to be legalized. So

238
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,360
Speaker 1: they would do these like publicly available talks and tire

239
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,920
Speaker 1: that are entirely illegal about DIY abortion right. And they

240
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,000
Speaker 1: would go up to cops and invite them and be like, hey,

241
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,640
Speaker 1: I'm giving a crime lecture that's illegal for me to

242
00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,520
Speaker 1: give later at the following address in case you want

243
00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:03,480
Speaker 1: to come. Cops would come, learn how to learn birth control,

244
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:04,360
Speaker 1: and then leave.

245
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,200
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, is this one of those like

246
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,959
Speaker 2: sitcom moments of them just never being able to be

247
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,240
Speaker 2: arrested and the couse of being like stop, stop, stop,

248
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,480
Speaker 2: just just just go to your thing, just stop.

249
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,199
Speaker 1: It took a year whe to successfully get arrested for

250
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:20,720
Speaker 1: actively breaking this law.

251
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:22,679
Speaker 3: I'm going to go and assume that these women are

252
00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,199
Speaker 3: all white. These are three white women, so that you're

253
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,559
Speaker 3: using your privilege, right, you know what I mean, like

254
00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:29,559
Speaker 3: like go to jail.

255
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,280
Speaker 2: But they didn't realize how privileged they would be. They

256
00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,880
Speaker 2: really did assume this is going to work. Surely, Surely,

257
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,079
Speaker 2: this one time they will arrest us, not thinking, oh no,

258
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,520
Speaker 2: I'm a white girl who's coming in being all cute

259
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:44,559
Speaker 2: about let me tell you.

260
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:49,720
Speaker 1: Yeahpecially, yeah, no, totally. And it took them a year.

261
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,320
Speaker 1: They finally successfully got arrested two of them. That which

262
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,840
Speaker 1: is enough that was there, like thank god, yeah, finally,

263
00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 1: but the case took so long that ROV went passed

264
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:06,400
Speaker 1: in the meantime. But they did help set California precedent

265
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:12,119
Speaker 1: for like California specific legal legalization of abortion, which obviously

266
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:18,760
Speaker 1: became important again really recently. So they were cool as holl.

267
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 2: Very cool.

268
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,280
Speaker 1: Now we're going to stick to California, but we're going

269
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:30,480
Speaker 1: to go down to another imaginary city, Los Angeles. Yeah,

270
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:32,520
Speaker 1: no one's ever heard of Los Angeles. It's just it's

271
00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,319
Speaker 1: the city that exists only in the movies. I think

272
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,080
Speaker 1: it's like Gotham. Yeah, it's a joke because everyone in

273
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,280
Speaker 1: podcast world except me lives in Los Angeles. I mean, actually,

274
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,040
Speaker 1: none of the people whatever, I'm not telling anyone. All

275
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,480
Speaker 1: three of us live in Los Angeles. At the following address,

276
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,520
Speaker 1: so we talked about some of the people were about

277
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,240
Speaker 1: to talk about Last Time You're On, but I want

278
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:54,760
Speaker 1: to go into a little bit more detail and or

279
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,959
Speaker 1: like different detail about them because they're just it's cool,

280
00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,760
Speaker 1: and I learned some cool stuff they did I'll talk

281
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,240
Speaker 1: about and it ties into the stuff we're going to

282
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,319
Speaker 1: talk about a little bit later. Okay, So, the feminist

283
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 1: movement of the sixties an awful lot. They also did

284
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:07,840
Speaker 1: an awful lot wrong, and we'll talk about some of that.

285
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,240
Speaker 1: But one of their favorite tactics was called consciousness raising.

286
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,800
Speaker 1: And it's one of these tactics that again kind of

287
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,640
Speaker 1: like it's like soap boxing. Soap boxing doesn't make any

288
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,680
Speaker 1: sense in the modern world. It's hard to imagine, right,

289
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 1: It's hard to imagine I'm going to go into a

290
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,280
Speaker 1: public square, stand on a box and talk and people

291
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 1: aren't just going to like even throw money at me

292
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,720
Speaker 1: or call the cops. But that was a big thing

293
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:32,400
Speaker 1: that people did consciousness raising. They were like, patriarchy keeps

294
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:38,200
Speaker 1: women isolated in homes controlled by men. So let's just

295
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,640
Speaker 1: get women together under the right circumstances and talking about

296
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,600
Speaker 1: the right things and with the right prompts that can

297
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 1: be revolutionary. And they were right, Like a lot of

298
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,160
Speaker 1: things that have happened in this world have happened because

299
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:58,600
Speaker 1: marginalized people just get together and compare notes an awful lot,

300
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,760
Speaker 1: and like there's like revolutionary like the larger scheme of

301
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,520
Speaker 1: things about like pushing social issues, and there's just a

302
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,800
Speaker 1: lot of people who realized that their husbands were pieces

303
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,240
Speaker 1: of shit who were able to fucking leave. You know.

304
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:13,240
Speaker 1: Consciousness raising got women together to break their isolation, and

305
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,280
Speaker 1: it helped folks realize their own agency. And it also

306
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,480
Speaker 1: led to the next cool people to discuss, who ran

307
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:23,160
Speaker 1: what was called the self help movement and relatedly, menstrual extraction.

308
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,800
Speaker 1: So in nineteen sixty nine, this story did not get

309
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,000
Speaker 1: This part of the story did not go out the

310
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,320
Speaker 1: way I wanted it to. In nineteen sixty nine, five

311
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,040
Speaker 1: women started hanging out with an illegal abortionist named John

312
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,360
Speaker 1: Gwynn in Los Angeles and John Gwynn kept going to

313
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,920
Speaker 1: jail for abortion, but he was like, whatever, it's the

314
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,320
Speaker 1: right thing to do. It's also my job. Got a crime, doctor,

315
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,560
Speaker 1: Got do crime as a doctor. We talked about him

316
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,320
Speaker 1: before because he invented some game chambers in abortion, like

317
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,520
Speaker 1: suction abortion or a way to do it specifically, and

318
00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,680
Speaker 1: he started making certain types of early abortions way the

319
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,720
Speaker 1: fuck safer. A year later, nineteen seventy, he actually get

320
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,320
Speaker 1: himself arrested on purpose in a similar way as the

321
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,160
Speaker 1: other women we talked about. With the women that we

322
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,360
Speaker 1: talked about, because he wants to challenge abortion laws, and

323
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 1: the way he did is really fucking neat. He just

324
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,240
Speaker 1: set up an abortion clinic, like put a sign out

325
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,920
Speaker 1: front that was like abortions, get them here, abortions here,

326
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,640
Speaker 1: they're free. Yeah. It was called the Community Service Center

327
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,000
Speaker 1: and Women's Abortion Clinic, and it was a free abortion

328
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,120
Speaker 1: clinic in Los Angeles, just like, hey, crime doctor here,

329
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,800
Speaker 1: if you need any crimes done.

330
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,600
Speaker 2: Don't even need a coupon, just come on in.

331
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:42,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was open for five days, so longer than

332
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,480
Speaker 1: I expeah, I know, and then all of its employees

333
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,520
Speaker 1: were arrested of course, John Gwynn, who was twenty nine

334
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,080
Speaker 1: years old, was like, yeah, I've done about two thousand

335
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,720
Speaker 1: abortions so far in my life. And to be very

336
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 1: he's also already been to jail for it several times

337
00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,400
Speaker 1: at this point. And even when he charged money, he

338
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,600
Speaker 1: charged it like the like three hundred I didn't write

339
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,199
Speaker 1: the actual amount, but I read it earlier. It's like

340
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,119
Speaker 1: three hundred bucks or so, which is about half of

341
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,320
Speaker 1: what hospitals charge for abortions at the time. And well,

342
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,720
Speaker 1: you because you could get one in a hospital wasmatically

343
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,000
Speaker 1: necessary and then it costs about twice what he was charging.

344
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 1: This man should be cool people who did cool stuff.

345
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,239
Speaker 1: Sometimes I talk about men on the show and then

346
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,320
Speaker 1: find out that they're awful halfway through researching them.

347
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:29,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

348
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,439
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy two, John Gwynn, thirty one, shot his

349
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,000
Speaker 1: twenty one year old girlfriend to death.

350
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:35,639
Speaker 2: Oh.

351
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,080
Speaker 1: He says they were arguing about her using drugs and

352
00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,160
Speaker 1: she pulled a gun on him, and during the resulting

353
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,280
Speaker 1: struggle he accidentally shot her. I have no reason to

354
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,720
Speaker 1: believe him, and neither did the course system. Yeah, to

355
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,119
Speaker 1: be fair, I have no reason to believe the courses.

356
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,639
Speaker 1: To me, either my instinct is fucked this guy, and

357
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:58,760
Speaker 1: I'm real sad about it. Yeah, but before all that, oh,

358
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,440
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine, these five women are like hanging

359
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,960
Speaker 1: out being like yo, crime doc, Like, what's your crime doc? Ways,

360
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,200
Speaker 1: And he's like, well, I'm using this new technique using

361
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,040
Speaker 1: suction to extract an early pregnancy. And they're like, way,

362
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,720
Speaker 1: that looks easy as shit, and he's like it is

363
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,120
Speaker 1: easy as shit. And they're like, we're going to do it,

364
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,639
Speaker 1: and he's like okay. And these women they were involved

365
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,440
Speaker 1: in above ground organizing for abortion rights too. They'd throw

366
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,760
Speaker 1: abortion rights rallies where women from the crowd could come

367
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,600
Speaker 1: up to the microphone and just shout to the world

368
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 1: that they'd had abortions and they weren't ashamed, you know,

369
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 1: which is like one of these things where people are like, well,

370
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,000
Speaker 1: why are you proud of it? Cause it's illegal and

371
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be. That's why, like, I wouldn't be proud

372
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,439
Speaker 1: of having gotten my tonsils out because it's it's legal.

373
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,640
Speaker 1: And you know what else is legal? Srean are all

374
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,639
Speaker 1: of the things that being advertised legal or some of

375
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,200
Speaker 1: them crimes I cannot legally comment on that actually.

376
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,959
Speaker 2: But you know what's going to happen in the future.

377
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:52,919
Speaker 1: That's true.

378
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:54,680
Speaker 3: Everything is on the internet forever.

379
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, maybe these are crimes. Do whatever the ad is.

380
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,360
Speaker 1: What they're saying in the subtext is steal the following product.

381
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 1: That's what they're telling you. Don't, no, don't, don't, sorry,

382
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,640
Speaker 1: don't steal the following product. It's only cool to talk

383
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 1: about crimes, not do them. Here's ads and we're back.

384
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 1: So these women, they're like, oh, we've were learning how

385
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,119
Speaker 1: to do these pretty effective abortions, you know, these these

386
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: early stage pregnancy section abortions. So in Los Angeles has

387
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: a conference about abortion, those for physicians, and so these

388
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,879
Speaker 1: five women they marched up onto the stage unannounced, like

389
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,119
Speaker 1: took the stage and announced to the room, quote, doctors,

390
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna do it ourselves. Women are gonna take this back.

391
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 3: Is that a direct quote?

392
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:58,399
Speaker 1: That is a direct quote of a person describing it, Like, oh,

393
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:03,040
Speaker 1: the participant describing years later, she might have been paraphrasing.

394
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 1: I spent a while trying to figure out whether this

395
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 1: is a direct quote or not, Like it is a

396
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,680
Speaker 1: direct quote from the person who said it talking about

397
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:12,119
Speaker 1: it later.

398
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 3: Okay, I can take that yeah, yeah, good job.

399
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:23,199
Speaker 1: And then they did that. They did it themselves. And

400
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,879
Speaker 1: also one of the cool things of it is they

401
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 1: didn't have to murder any barely adult girlfriends in the process.

402
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 2: Oh well, no win.

403
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 1: No twenty one year olds were shot during the resultant

404
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 1: oh dear god thing. So in nineteen seventy one. A

405
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 1: couple years later, they had a meeting and it was

406
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 1: a room packed full of women. I think it comes

407
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:50,159
Speaker 1: out of consciousness raising circles. They and one woman, Carol Downer,

408
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: is one of the original five. She holds up a

409
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,159
Speaker 1: little suction machine which is at this point just a

410
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 1: syringe and a straw and the name of the straw.

411
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 1: Someone got mad at me for mispronouncing last time. But

412
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 1: I want to ask you, how often in your life

413
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 1: do you say canula?

414
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, neverula. That's the one thing I learned about

415
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 2: podcasting is you realize how quickly you don't know how

416
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 2: to say so many things. Oh yeah, wow, like so

417
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,119
Speaker 2: many words. I'm like, I've never said this word out loud?

418
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:18,439
Speaker 2: Am I in the second grade?

419
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, you would think that if it was spelled canula,

420
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 1: it'd be pronounced canula. But it's canula, which I can

421
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: see now that.

422
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,120
Speaker 2: It ANYWAYX really messed us up.

423
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, like that works if you speak Spanish.

424
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 1: They were like some reasonable language, a bastard language, three

425
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:43,640
Speaker 1: languages in a trench coat. So I bet Carol knew

426
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 1: how to pronounce this word. And she pulled out this

427
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: machine and everyone was like a little scandalized and a

428
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 1: little bit worried and squeamish. She like describes like people

429
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 1: were like faces were turning green. They're like, oh, I

430
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: don't know, you know. So she laid down on the desk,

431
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: lifted up her skirts, spread her legs, and showed people

432
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 1: how to insert it and let people come up and

433
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 1: look and their whole candy.

434
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 2: To herself, yeah, that's the talent.

435
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: And she was just like, well, that's what they teach.

436
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:17,120
Speaker 1: Their whole thing is that they de scandalize a woman's

437
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 1: body from each other and are like, this is a

438
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 1: thing that we can hang out with with each other,

439
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: and it can be straight women and gay women together

440
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: and it's not a sexual thing, and we can like

441
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 1: do that because there's all this stuff about lesbian politics

442
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 1: and all this, so I can talk about that a

443
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 1: little bit. But and so she inserted it, and she

444
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: let people see come up and look and be like,

445
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: this is how it works. And then this menstrul extractor

446
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 1: it could be used to remove the mensies, which had

447
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: the side effect of preventing pregnancy if one, you know,

448
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: if a pregnancy was beginning to start, it would whoops,

449
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: make that not be the case. It wasn't a perfect

450
00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: device yet. It had two major problems. One, if air

451
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: went the wrong way, it was like hella dangerous. And

452
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: it also and it didn't have a safeguard against that

453
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: when murder doctor, I don't normally call abortionist murderers. This

454
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: guy is separately and unrelatedly a murderer.

455
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 2: He killed a twenty one year old everyone, Just in

456
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 2: case you came again to this, he's not talking about

457
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 2: it because he's an abortion.

458
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that part was cool. So the murder that that.

459
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 2: Part, the murder, the actual killing of a woman, Yeah, okay,

460
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: moving on. Uh.

461
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: And two, if there was more material than would fit

462
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: in the syringe, you'd have to empty it and reinsert

463
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 1: the whole thing. And so it was just like not

464
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: a perfect machine. And so these women were like, why

465
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: don't we just fix it? And so these feminist lay

466
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: practitioners saw what was needed, and they invented a whole

467
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: less new thing. They added a one way valve so

468
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: it was no longer dangerous, and they added a mason jar,

469
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 1: and so suddenly it was safe and effective.

470
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 2: Yes, I've seen the pictures of the with the mason jar. Yeah,

471
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 2: it just popped into MyDD.

472
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: They're so interesting. They've like largely gone out of style,

473
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: I think because of the rise of medicated abortions, which

474
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: is like, well, if anyone who's listening, don't assume that

475
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: the medical practice is fifty years ago, is like, should

476
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 1: be your go to modern at home abortion practice revolves

477
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: around medicated abortion, and go look into that on your own,

478
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: and don't get your medical information from some translator who

479
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: doesn't have a univerus who reads history books for a living.

480
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 1: That's my claim about that. There you go. So this

481
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: machine it isn't it isn't an abortion machine. It's a

482
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: menstrual extraction machine, which happens to also make you not

483
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: pregnant in case that was happening, And you can remove

484
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: your menzies all in one go. And that's how they

485
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: pitched it, and that's how they kind of got away

486
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: with doing it legally. Is they like what. No, it's

487
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 1: for this, you know right. They called the machine the

488
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: dell M, which stood for dirty little Machine. I didn't

489
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: know this part last time, really because a doctor had disparagingly.

490
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: Called it that a dirty little machine. I really think

491
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 2: this is the punk band name that you're you're sid

492
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 2: telling me.

493
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: Okay, see, I have this rule, that Margaret's law. If

494
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: someone says that would be a good band name, after

495
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: someone says something, it's not true. That is Margaret's really,

496
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: but how dare you? Dirty little Machine would be a

497
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: good band name, Like, genuinely, that would be a good

498
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 1: trick me. No, No, normally because like normally like and

499
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: I think it's because we got poisoned by this whole

500
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: era of like crappy band names like Stone Temple Pilots

501
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 1: and like Dinosaur Junior and Smashing Pumpkins just like lo. Whoa,

502
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 1: that sounds like nonsense. That would be a good band name.

503
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: Nonsense doesn't make good band names.

504
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 2: Well that's a good band name.

505
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: No, what nonsense itself would be? Well that would be

506
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:48,479
Speaker 1: if you're a hardcore band, you could be Margrets anyway,

507
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 1: So this dirty Little Machine could be made by more

508
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: or less anyone. So they made zines explaining how to

509
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: make it. You couldn't go to like better, Yeah, you

510
00:25:58,240 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: have to go to like to a medical supply place

511
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: get the parts, but it could be made with things

512
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: that you could purchase legally, you know. And they also

513
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: patented it, and this seems to be because they wanted

514
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: to keep it the method of its distribution decentralized and

515
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: not commercialized. So they wanted to be able to like

516
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: prevent someone from claiming financial ownership over it, you know,

517
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: because normally you hear about people like doing inventing cool

518
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: things and then refusing to take credit and not patting it,

519
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 1: and that's usually the cool thing. But in this particular case,

520
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: they were like, we want to protect this from economic exploitation.

521
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: And also specifically they were on this tip where they

522
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: knew that they needed to control to some degree because

523
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: they knew that they shouldn't let it be used as

524
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: a machine for eugenics and population control. Because they were

525
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: fucking smart and more intersectional than I would inherently assume

526
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: some white women to be in nineteen seventy one, you know, impressive.

527
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 2: The fact that they saw beyond that is very uh

528
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 2: uncommon unfortunately, and.

529
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: What I think it is. This is the best I

530
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 1: can guess. What I think it is is that it's

531
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: like not necessarily that like all the old like white

532
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: second wave feminists were all bad at intersectionality and more

533
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: that they didn't bake intersectionality into what they were doing,

534
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: and so a fuck ton of them were really bad

535
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: at it, but also a fuck ton of them were

536
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,959
Speaker 1: also paying attention and good at it because they were

537
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: part of social movements that included other types of people.

538
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: That's like my best guess.

539
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 2: So did this include other types of people, other marginalized people.

540
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: They went pretty quickly around the world to promote this,

541
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: and one of the things that they like learned was

542
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 1: that they were like, oh, in a lot of places,

543
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 1: the women's struggle is to not be fucking sterilized, you know.

544
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: And they were like, cool, we're not about that. This

545
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: is a separate thing, you know. And so by going

546
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: around the world, they like and they also could have

547
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: looked in their own backyard, I think they did, you know,

548
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: they were like, oh, this also matters this other thing.

549
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: And then another part of this that I read a

550
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: bit about, and I don't remember how much of it

551
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: is in the script, is that a lot of the

552
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: women's self help group started with white feminism, and it

553
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: wasn't just like black women started doing it too, although

554
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: that's true. Black women started developing it in very different

555
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: ways that met their own community's needs. And one of

556
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,719
Speaker 1: the ways that they did it that fucking rules. And

557
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 1: I think the start in Florida was that they started

558
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: making a movement that also was like far more actively

559
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: inclusive of like birthing centers. Really like kind of what

560
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: you were talking about before, Like when we talk about

561
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: the right to choose, we actually mean choose, not choose

562
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: what we not choose abortion, choose what you want, you know,

563
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: and so and so Black feminism did an awful lot

564
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: of work around that aspect of it. That's a little

565
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: bit off the I mean, it's something that I read

566
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: about all the time, but I'm not like looking at

567
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: my script when I say that. But yeah, they were like,

568
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: this is not a fucking eugenics thing. They were like

569
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: really upfront about it. So yeah, they started the women's

570
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: self help movement as a result, And you'd have these

571
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: parties where women would gather at someone's house and then

572
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: they would teach you how to do inspections of your

573
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: own body and other people's bodies, how to use a

574
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: speculum in a mirror and a flashlight to see and

575
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: monitor your own cervix and just like look in yourself

576
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: and figure out what's going on.

577
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: That's so interesting. I don't know why, but have you

578
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: ever seen fry green Tomatoes?

579
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: No?

580
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 2: Anybody, wait, Okay, it's okay, it's very it's an ah

581
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: well in a lot of ways. But one of the

582
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: scenes is the fact that they're all examining their own

583
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: vaginas to learn to love themselves. And Kathy Bas's characters like,

584
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: oh my god, I gotta go type of situation, and

585
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,959
Speaker 2: it was very like women love themselves, women take care

586
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: of yourselves things that it was very white, yeah centered. However,

587
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: I'm wondering I like back then, because I remember hearing

588
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 2: stories of women coming together and like really having that

589
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 2: movement of loving themselves and loving their bodies, so like

590
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 2: sitting around with each other but looking at them with themselves.

591
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: I wonder how many of these men translated as women

592
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: just looking at themselves when it was actual actually like

593
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 2: self help things where they're teaching each other how to

594
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: do these procedures, but men just dumped it down to oh,

595
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: women looking at their vaginas and moving on.

596
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that sounds true because like this was a

597
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: very like I mean, it wasn't like it was science.

598
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: It was folk science, but it was science. They were like, hey, look.

599
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 2: But they were really learning about themselves and their bodies,

600
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 2: which was for such taboo.

601
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: Look how this person's cervix is different than this person's

602
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: cervix and yeah, like totally, and like learning to track

603
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: when you're ovulating and track like monitor sexual health and

604
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: do all of this stuff. That was absolutely like like imagine,

605
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: if I love it, someone just never looked at their

606
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: own dick. Like I'm just imagining these men complaining about

607
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: like waiting looking at themselves. I'm like, the fuck you

608
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: thing men are doing like whatever.

609
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 2: You know the joke about like measuring themselves or comparing

610
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 2: each other.

611
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally talking about Yeah I did measuring.

612
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 2: Yeah I don't. There we go.

613
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: That's the term that I don't care about. Yeah, it's

614
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: just not as good as an old fashioned pissing. I've

615
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: never been in a literal pitio in contest, but you know,

616
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: at least there's some skill involved anyway. So Okay, So

617
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: they started going around doing these things. There's a quote

618
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: from Lindsey Komy, who ran a woman's health clinic for

619
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: thirty years, and she describes it self help is a

620
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: continuum from learning cervical self examine, fertility tracking to learn

621
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: how to perform and then provide abortion care beyond the

622
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: walls of the clinic. It was always the movement's course

623
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: to teach simple practices with low risk, and then gradually

624
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: introduce more complicated practices, sometimes with more risk. And so

625
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: the thing that's interesting to me here are the paeril

626
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: between this and what was happening in like nineteen thirties Germany.

627
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: You have this the above ground thing that's happening is

628
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: people are meeting behind closed doors and talking about sexual health,

629
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: and then those same people are like, and here's how

630
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: to not get pregnant, and then oh if also if

631
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: you're pregnant, we'll figure out a way to deal with it,

632
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: you know. In nineteen seventy two, Carol Downer and another

633
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: woman were rested for practicing medicine without a license because

634
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: they were showing someone how to inspect their own cervix

635
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: and apply yogurt to treat a yeast infection, and Carol

636
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: fought in court like pled not guilty and won and

637
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,959
Speaker 1: convinced the jury that the right to self exam is

638
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: not practicing medicine without a license, which is a ridiculous

639
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: thing to have to win. But I'm glad someone went

640
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: through the effort of getting arrested to prove that you're

641
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: allowed to look at your own vagina, right like, oh, cervix.

642
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: But yeah, So they had this thing they're doing, the

643
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: self help movement. And when Roe v. Wade became the

644
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: law nineteen seventy three, the folks in LA who developed

645
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: the Dell M they came out swinging. They set up

646
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: an abortion clinic like write the fuck off. Abortion was

647
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: legalized on January twenty second, nineteen seventy three. By February

648
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: they were performing legal abortions with a hired and licensed doctor.

649
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: Abortion activists in Oakland followed within months, and Menstreul extraction

650
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: didn't go away. It kind of went underground, but in

651
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: a supported underground environment where like the clinics would, I believe,

652
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: provide people with the materials that they needed to build

653
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: their d ms and stuff like that, and thousands of

654
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: women continue to teach each other the skills necessary to

655
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: manage their reproductive health. But it was done in conjunction

656
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: with the feminist health centers and clinics. And this is

657
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: that shit. I love that I invented where the above

658
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: ground and the underground work together as friends with sometimes

659
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: you need enough like firewalling, where like the people who

660
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: do the above ground shit don't know the illegal people,

661
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: you know, but like.

662
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 2: Whatever, you're right compartment in life.

663
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. The Oakland Feminist Women's Health Center, which ran the

664
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: Oakland Clinic, started the previous year as one woman, nineteen

665
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 1: year old Laura Brown, and she answered the phone using

666
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 1: three different voices, so people didn't people didn't realize there's

667
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: only one woman running this whole thing, you know, by yourself.

668
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 3: Oh I love that so much.

669
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, Later it becomes the Women's Choice Clinic, And

670
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: it started before Roe V. Wade as a women's health clinic.

671
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: It was teaching cervical exams and menstrul extractions, and of

672
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: course it was illegally referring people to abortion providers. They

673
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: also ran an abortion hotline and when women would call,

674
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: it was very quickly not just one woman running this place.

675
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: When women would call and they'd be like, oh, I

676
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: need an abortion and also, by the way, I'm in

677
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: a domestic abuse situation, the women from this would just

678
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,959
Speaker 1: show up in numbers to help the woman and move

679
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 1: all of her stuff out of the house safely. Which

680
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: is a thing that I believe is part of the condition,

681
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: is that everyone who's listening needs to be prepared to

682
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: do that at some point in their lives. If you

683
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: hear about someone who needs this help and is willing

684
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: and it is safe for them to get it from

685
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: you and a large group of people, join a group

686
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: of people to helpe anyone escape a domestic abuse situation. Anyway, Okay,

687
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: since your same generation as me, you'll remember this. You

688
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: remember in ninety two the famous Pat Robertson quote about feminism.

689
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 2: Oh, Pat Robinson, such a he said so much? Which one.

690
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: Okay, feminism is about a socialist, anti family political movement

691
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children,

692
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians.

693
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that became a pretty much a rally

694
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 2: cry for a lot of feminists at that point.

695
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: Oh, I hit all of those notes. I mean, obviously,

696
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: I don't believe it's actually about killing children. I believe

697
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: it's about imborting fetuses. But it was absolutely a bunch

698
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: of socialists, not all of them, but many of them

699
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: were socialist and communists. They absolutely did abortions, They absolutely

700
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: hated capitalism. They absolutely helped so many women come out

701
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: as life lesbians.

702
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 3: Right.

703
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: I also found connections to early WIKA coming out of

704
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: this movement, and I just didn't have time to chase

705
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: that rabbit down that rabbit hole. But so even the

706
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: practicing which craft part, like, Eh, well, he's not wrong.

707
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: Part of this, he's not wrong the fact that Pat Robinson,

708
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 2: of of course, because this dude was always on TV

709
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 2: trying to get all the old people's money. What he

710
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 2: doesn't understand is the reason WICKA or any other anti

711
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 2: Christian religion was actually on the rise is because of

712
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 2: the Christian trauma that the majority of these women had

713
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 2: gone through when any of these things applied to them.

714
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 2: So in actuality, they created. Yeah, that movement. Yeah, in

715
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 2: like from what I because like on my show, we

716
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: did like a literal ten part episode about Christian Christianity

717
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 2: and trauma and religious trauma, and we talked about the

718
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 2: fact that things like the purity culture, which only enhanced

719
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 2: rape culture, was part of the reason women have run

720
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: away from religion and leaders like Pat Robinson himself.

721
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: No, that makes so much sense to me. I actually

722
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: want to go listen to that episode because that's the

723
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: kind of kick I'm on. Later, it was learning about

724
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 1: some of that shit.

725
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 2: You know, there's so much trauma.

726
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So there's another origin to the abortion rights movement.

727
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: So we trace this one the women's self help right now,

728
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: we're gonna traces the Black Panther Party. Yes, and the

729
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: Black Panther Party had been doing its thing with the

730
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: medical world, which we've talked about a few times. We

731
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 1: did an episode about the Black Panther Party. We've also

732
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: talked about the Young Lords and a bunch of other

733
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: folks out east that are other groups of people that

734
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: have done a lot of medical access as their core

735
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: movement to work right. But in the Bay, the Panthers

736
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: ran free medical clinics and we're teaching lay people how

737
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: to do blood work in urine analysis, all part of

738
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: their theory of self health. And I love self help

739
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: because I don't know whether it was an intentionally a

740
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: riff on self help, even though it sounds like almost

741
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: the same, right, because it's a riff off of self defense, right,

742
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: They're like, well, we do self defense work, but we

743
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 1: should also do self health work. And we've talked about

744
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: a little bit earlier on this episode, but then also

745
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: in another episode, in a birth control episode, I talked

746
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: about where the Panthers at least started around birth control,

747
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 1: which is that they were largely against it. But I

748
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: want to talk about a little bit more. It didn't

749
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: start as a political party super keen on abortion access

750
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: and birth control because the Black community was fighting against

751
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,919
Speaker 1: the genocide of force sterilization. And as you mentioned, there's

752
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: a mass campaign of force sterilization for decades and as

753
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: one of the most evil and least talked about things

754
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: in US history, and there was like all kinds of

755
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: things where it was like literally like well, if you

756
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: want to be on welfare, you have to get sterilized.

757
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: And obviously this disproportionately affected women of color, and often

758
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: people just directly did racial targeting and whatever anyway, but

759
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: black women, including some Panthers, still fought for bodily autonomy.

760
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: Despite the original position of a Black Panther party, by

761
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, the Panthers changed their party line to

762
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: be against force sterilization rather than be against birth control,

763
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: and this was in response to women pushing for what

764
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: they needed from within the party, to quote Jennifer Nelson,

765
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: as the feminist message of a woman's fundamental right to

766
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: abortion became more widespread, and as Black women began to

767
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: forge a feminism of their own, the Panthers refined their

768
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 1: criticism to accept birth control and abortion when voluntarily chosen.

769
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: This gradual transformation came at the behest of Black women,

770
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: both in the party and outside of it, who rejected

771
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: the total condemnation of reproductive control for people of color

772
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: as genocidal and so this other origin. These people who

773
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: are used to fighting for their medical needs and are

774
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: doing all of this amazing community organizing work end up

775
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: coming together. By the end of the seventies, the Women's

776
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: Choice clinic in Oakland was black led, and occasionally it

777
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: was former Panther led. And what may or may not

778
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: be black led is stuff ads some of it that

779
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: was that was a weird one. That one is bad. Well, uh,

780
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: you know, actually, one of the ways that you reverse

781
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: economic extraction is to buy black owned buy from black

782
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: owned businesses and from worker owned businesses. And if we

783
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: happen to have any ads for that, then do that.

784
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: But even if we don't have ads from it, it's

785
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: a thing worth considering. Doing gears stuff. Yeah, do some

786
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: research first.

787
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 3: That's a good point. That was tough.

788
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll just cut now, and we're back, and fortunately

789
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: we've all forgotten about how awkwardly Margaret did that.

790
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 2: It was an awkward break because the conversation was serious

791
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 2: and something that's not talked about enough. I think that's

792
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: part of the problem, is when we have these conversations

793
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: about great up steps that they've made or revolutionaries that

794
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 2: for so long that so many other size or the

795
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 2: intersectional stuff has been left out because everybody wants a

796
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: pretty painted story, kind of like the whole voting rights

797
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 2: for women, the fact that they were freaking racist and

798
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: leaving out black women on purpose and women of color

799
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 2: on purpose, and then we still celebrate them because they

800
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 2: were like they did kind of good but we can't.

801
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 2: You know, I'm the DeBie Downer in the situation, but

802
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 2: like you remember, they're still assholes. Yeah, so it's hard. No,

803
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 2: it's like, good job, Margaret, you did great.

804
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: Thank you. Every now and then, I think people every

805
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 1: now and then are like, oh what A wrote this

806
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: like suffragette and I'm.

807
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 2: Like, fuck them. You know, I'm just kidding.

808
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll do the Suffragettes at one point, but it'll

809
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 1: be real complicated at best. And honestly, all my heroes

810
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: were not excited about them even at the time.

811
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 2: The Whole and the Shone people did a lot for

812
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 2: the suffrage movement, so you should talk about them, okrash

813
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: Nations people that still exists.

814
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: No, yeah, no, that's actually really interesting. The Hood and

815
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: Shone have come up a couple times on this show

816
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: because they're left down fucking cool and they schooled Marks.

817
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: But I didn't know about that particular connection. So I'm

818
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: going to ask you more about that once we're done.

819
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: So by spring of nineteen seventy three, this the Oakland

820
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: Clinic hired a woman doctor fucking finally named Jane Wiley,

821
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 1: and they opened Women's Choice and they set up a clinic, right,

822
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: so this is like they're only a couple months behind

823
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles one. They charge one hundred and fifty

824
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 1: dollars for abortions, which is less than half the rate

825
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 1: of even friendly criminal providers, and it was a quarter

826
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: of the rate of a hospital abortion. They got a

827
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: mailorologist to start performing vi sectomies as well, which is good.

828
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: If you are someone who can get a viseectomy and

829
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: you are committed to not having children, then you should

830
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: probably get a sect to me, it's a less invasive

831
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: procedure than what other people have options of. They use

832
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: their funds to support feminist causes that they raise with

833
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: this clinic, like the cause of annez Garcia, who was

834
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: convicted of murder for killing her rapist, and so the

835
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: feminist movement, funded in part by these medical clinics, got

836
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: her a retrial and a feminist lawyer and got her

837
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: off on self defense. Yes, and helped set precedent in

838
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: a person's right to use deadly force against sexual assault,

839
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 1: which is it's much harder to make that case, you know,

840
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: than like other particular things. But like when I I

841
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: think people know that I, like, you know, took a

842
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: concealed carry class and sometimes use firearms and stuff. And

843
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: the times that it is legal to use deadly force

844
00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: is when yourself or someone else is being threatened with

845
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: deadly force or with a sexual assault. So thank you,

846
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,240
Speaker 1: I know, as I'm sorry that you had to suffer,

847
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: but I'm glad you killed that man with a twenty two.

848
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: And also, how hard do you have to be of

849
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: a motherfucker to kill someone with the fucking twenty two.

850
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: That is not a killing gun anyway.

851
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 2: I know nothing about guns, but props.

852
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: Very small gun that's for shooting rabbits.

853
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 2: Oh well, I got it done.

854
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. One of my friends who was shot was they're fine,

855
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: but they were shot as a teenager for with the

856
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: twenty two. They were shot for being gay, but they

857
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: were shot in the leg with hit and they were like,

858
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: I thought I got stung with a bee. I mean

859
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: they had to go to the doctor and it was bad,

860
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: and like people die when they get shot with twenty twos.

861
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 2: But it's like they thought they got stung by a bee.

862
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they got shot in the leg with the

863
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 1: twenty two, and that's like a beasting. Yeah, it's real painful.

864
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: You're like, ah, fuck, it doesn't sound like it's painful.

865
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 3: You mean, like in the moment, it was like beasting.

866
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 3: It wasn't like after like it was a.

867
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, no, No, it was a real wound and

868
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: they had to go to the hospital and it could

869
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 1: have been way worse. But like I don't know if

870
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: you're listening. I'm glad you're okay.

871
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 2: So they got hate crime essentially.

872
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, one of my friends have got hate crime. Two.

873
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 3: Margaret's like, yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

874
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:20,800
Speaker 2: What the level of just dryness would do. Traumatic stories

875
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: that you tell maybe part of the classic delivery that

876
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,439
Speaker 2: you give to us that I enjoy so much.

877
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks appreciate it. So anyway I go see it.

878
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 2: I'm glad they're okay.

879
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: Shot and killed the man with the twenty two. Uh,

880
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: he deserved it. And when she got her retrial, she

881
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: was like, because her original trial, her defense was like, oh,

882
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: she wasn't thinking right in the moment and stuff, and

883
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: her retrial had a feminist lawyer, and the feminist lawyer

884
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 1: was like, that man needed shooting.

885
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean to be fair. The jury was like, yeah,

886
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 2: even today, that's hard to do.

887
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: I know, I know it is.

888
00:45:55,840 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 2: Self defense cases are so often against women and general.

889
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,240
Speaker 2: We talk about that woman who just took away guns

890
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 2: from her abusive husband and she got jail time because

891
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 2: he wasn't supposed and he had charges. But in the end,

892
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 2: like we talk about things like that, so I don't

893
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 2: blame the first lawyer of being like, you're not They're

894
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 2: not going to believe you. They don't believe women in general. No, totally,

895
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 2: let's do it this way, totally, let's plead insanity.

896
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: No, you're you're right. I think she was a migrant

897
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: farm worker and yeah, but.

898
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 2: Good on her, and congratulations, I well deserved.

899
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: I know.

900
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 3: It's fucking cool.

901
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: I like started thinking about another one of my friends

902
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: who got hate crime and in his self defense case

903
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 1: went really badly. But that's a separate case. He ended

904
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: up he ended up going to prison for his own

905
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: hate crime. Oh my god, he's out now you're listening.

906
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: I think I owe you a chain mail shirt. I

907
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: promised him a chain mail shirt if he was found guilty,

908
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: because he needed one more than I did. What anyway,

909
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: Ye chain mail shirt. It's a nice shirt.

910
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: It's chain mill Okay, yeah, legitimate cha.

911
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: Yeah.

912
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 2: I think it's too late now kidding.

913
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,399
Speaker 1: It's probably slightlinessless necessarily than was before jail.

914
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 3: Was this lousy chain mail shirt.

915
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 2: Put it on top of it.

916
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like, he's not into the same nerd shit

917
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: I am. He's probably was like, thanks, buddy, thanks for

918
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: that promise. I don't anyway, son Roe v. Wade. It

919
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 1: famously didn't fix everything, and now the right wing went

920
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: on the attack because now they were like, oh, we're

921
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: the underdog, says every right winger, ever while they're in

922
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,800
Speaker 1: the process of murdering everyone. Over the course of the seventies,

923
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: evangelical has got more and more anti abortion, which means

924
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk really quickly about religion and abortion. It's

925
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: easy to think that when Christian's Protestant and Catholic have

926
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: always been against abortion, it's after all, it's again the

927
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: Bible or something right. It is not, and Christian opposition

928
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: to abortion is fairly new. To quote Bible scholar Dan McLellan,

929
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 1: there is no place in the Bible where full moral

930
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: and legal personhood is ever attributed to a fetus. The

931
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: Old Testament is very clear that a fetus is property.

932
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: If a man injures a pregnant woman in a way

933
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: that causes a miscarriage, he has to pay a fine.

934
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:29,879
Speaker 1: If a man injures a pregnant woman in a way

935
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: that kills the woman, the man gets the death penalty

936
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: because life for a life. Because a woman is a

937
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 1: person and a fetus is a property very progressive of

938
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: the Bible in that particular moment. I'm not here to

939
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: defend the Bible as a source of moral wisdom, but

940
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 1: the argument is fundamentally not about when life begins. It's

941
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,720
Speaker 1: about when personhood begins. Secularly, you could say full legal

942
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: and moral personhood. Theologically, you could talk about insulment right

943
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: when the soul enters the body, when a person is

944
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: a person. There's three times people consider. They consider a conception,

945
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 1: they consider the quickening when you can feel the fetus move,

946
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: and they consider birth. All three have their proponents and

947
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 1: all of the major monotheistic religions. Jewish traditions are more

948
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: likely to say that the breath of life enters at birth,

949
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: though a ton of conservative Jewish interpretations disagree. Protestantism of

950
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: the not An America kind is like usually it's like

951
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: birth that makes more sense. Evangelical right wing American Christians

952
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,240
Speaker 1: are like, we fucking hate women, we don't care about life.

953
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: And then the Catholic Church, they've always been not particularly

954
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 1: excited about abortion, but it wasn't until eighteen sixty nine

955
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: that the church officially decided that there was no Catholic

956
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 1: doctrine against abortion until eighteen sixty nine before the quickening sorry,

957
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: so like most of the abortions that happen in our world.

958
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: And then they switched it over to conception in eighteen

959
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 1: sixty nine. So for more than fifteen hundred years of

960
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: its history, the Catholic Church wasn't quite as wildly controlling

961
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 1: of people's bodies as it is now, although it's never

962
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: had a good track record about that. But most US

963
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: Catholics fifty six percent of them, support legalizing abortion, even

964
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: though the Church kind of created the pro life movement here.

965
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 1: The Qoran is silent about abortion, and different Islamic traditions

966
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: have different views on the matter. It's silent on it

967
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: the same way that the Bible is silent on it

968
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that most people don't try and interpret it

969
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: in certain ways.

970
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 3: Whatever can I can I subject here?

971
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 1: Please?

972
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 3: There's a hadith, a lot of people that I know

973
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 3: who are Muslim, there's it's pretty like fairly accepted that

974
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 3: abortion is allowed because I remember, I remember there was

975
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,240
Speaker 3: something in the Quran that is the reason why everyone

976
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 3: thinks it's legal in Islam. But the key reason that

977
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 3: Muslims think the procedure of like abortion is allowed is

978
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 3: that there are verses in the Koran that indicate that

979
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 3: a fetus is not a life until a soul is

980
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 3: breathed into it, and that doesn't happen at conception, that

981
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 3: happens later, and a lot of scholars believe it's between

982
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 3: forty days and one twenty days. So that's why the

983
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 3: majority of Muslim see abortion as allowed in Islam. From

984
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 3: my point of view, a lot of like Islamic feminists

985
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 3: are really proud of the fact that, like within Islam

986
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 3: abortion is allowed and they could like take care of

987
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 3: their own bodies. That's from what I understand.

988
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 1: No, that makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, yeah,

989
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,959
Speaker 1: And which is that that one hundred and twenty days

990
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: type thing is like overall what most of the religions

991
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: have kind of said until pretty fucking recently. Catholics were

992
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: more or less the first anti abortion crusaders in the US.

993
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: Eventually right wing evangelicals realized they could control people's bodies,

994
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 1: so they showed up in the seventies. And there's no

995
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: theological consensus among monotheists that abortion is a moral and

996
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: it's weird as shit that people use it to try

997
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: and control people's bodies. And the reason I want to

998
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: talk about it is because as if we talked earlier

999
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: about like the framing and understand how people like frame

1000
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: interprets how they I don't know how to make sense

1001
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: out of this. I wrote what I wrote in the script.

1002
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: I don't know how to riff off it. Anyway. I

1003
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 1: did get really fucking annoyed. I get really fucking annoyed

1004
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: that people are like, well, the Bible says, and I'm like, one,

1005
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: that is a list of moral ideas from a very

1006
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: long time ago, which is a very interesting document that

1007
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: people interpret all kinds of ways, and that's fine, whatever

1008
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: the fuck, And to no, it doesn't shut the fuck up.

1009
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: By nineteen eighty five, ninety percent of medical abortions were

1010
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: done in standalone abortion clinics rather than in hospitals in

1011
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 1: the United States. But then the anti chate movement was

1012
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: getting fiery. The Arson started in nineteen seventy seven. Clinic

1013
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: escorting started in nineteen eighty by the National Organization for Women.

1014
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: Now they would walk patients into clinics past picketers, and

1015
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: people still do this now. It is an absolutely worthwhile

1016
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: thing to volunteer and do if you're looking for a

1017
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 1: way to connect with community around you and get involved.

1018
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: There are different organizations that run it in different areas.

1019
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 1: Is I'm only aware of it in my area, so

1020
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how to get involved. By nineteen

1021
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 1: eighty three, there have been more than twenty bombings and

1022
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: arsens of clinics. By nineteen eighty five, the first women's clinic,

1023
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: the one in LA that has come up a couple

1024
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: of times, was torched and the fire department was like, what,

1025
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 1: why would we think it's arson? We're not even gonna

1026
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,439
Speaker 1: look like was probably the restaurant. Restaurants always burned down.

1027
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? So there wasn't even investigation

1028
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 1: and you can't even find it on the list of

1029
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: like arsons of abortion clinics because it's not listed because

1030
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't count because no one investigated it. They reopened

1031
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 1: in a new location. But more importantly, folks started coordinating.

1032
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: Well more importantly to our story about cool people whatever,

1033
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's not more important. Another thing that happened.

1034
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: People start coordinating for mutual defense and not just escorting.

1035
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: Escorting is absolutely great. Escorting is absolutely a thing where

1036
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 1: you do where you can't engage with the picketers right

1037
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 1: do clinic Escortian like, your whole thing is to like

1038
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 1: not let anything get more escalated and whatever, you know,

1039
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 1: And they were like, well, we need some We also

1040
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: need some rowdiness. They're really rowdy right now. The baddies

1041
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,879
Speaker 1: the antis. I can't use baddies as a bad thing

1042
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 1: anymore because apparently slang has changed. This has come up

1043
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 1: a couple times on the show.

1044
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 2: It's amazing.

1045
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: So they formed the CDC. The other CDC, they formed

1046
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: the Clinic Defense Committee. Various leftist groups get their shit

1047
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: together and started holding defense vigils outside of the clinic

1048
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 1: in Oakland. And this is all kinds of groups. It's

1049
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: anti imperialist groups and unions and feminist groups, it's communists

1050
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: and anarchists. And suddenly the anti has got real quiet

1051
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: because there was a whole lot of very angry and

1052
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: non pacifist people out defending the place. And not shockingly,

1053
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 1: one of the co founders of the CDC was a

1054
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 1: former black panther how a radical black lesbian feminist. And

1055
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 1: so they're like, oh, we don't want to go to

1056
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: that clinic. They're scary there. Since this was a leftist group,

1057
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: it had a ton of names over the years, the

1058
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: CDC became bac AO R, and it became baco r R,

1059
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: the Bay Area CORD and whatever. I didn't write down

1060
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: what they stand for because they all have a million

1061
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: fucking names and they're all the same name whatever.

1062
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 2: Similar.

1063
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but they're backhoor now. I'm gonna call them

1064
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: backwar and backhor was cool as fuck. There are last

1065
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: cool people we're gonna talk about this week. Sometimes they

1066
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: did the militant thing. They would stand around looking and

1067
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: being tough. Operation Rescue was the name of the main

1068
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 1: ANTIS that they would call the anti abortion protesters that antis,

1069
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 1: and Operation Rescue was like this place. They would organize

1070
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 1: what they called hits, which is where they would get

1071
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: hundreds or thousands of people to descend on a random

1072
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 1: clinic and like it down and like block it and

1073
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: do all this like and assault people. And it was,

1074
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: you know, bad, and so they infiltrated back or infiltrated

1075
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:13,359
Speaker 1: Operation Rescue and other anti groups. Sometimes they did street theater.

1076
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 1: They hold signs that said ladies against women and every

1077
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:18,760
Speaker 1: sperm is sacred, and would go and stand with the antis.

1078
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 1: They were defending their own legal access to healthcare. But

1079
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: soon enough they learned and took as one of their

1080
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: core principles you do not depend on the police. That

1081
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: is like a verbatim one of their principles. Because they

1082
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: would get arrested themselves for blockading, for like preventing blockades

1083
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: of private property they owned and legally operated. They had

1084
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: a rapid response phone tree to get people out in

1085
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: minutes to defend places where antis would hit on moss.

1086
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 1: Sometimes they met at this place called the Long Haul,

1087
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: which is an anarchist infoshop that's still running in the

1088
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,959
Speaker 1: Bay and therefore living up to its name The Long Haul,

1089
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: so fuck yeah, good on you. Eighty eight Bakwar was

1090
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: meeting there an anarchist artist couple that was in Bakor

1091
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: who are still alive today, which also makes me really happy.

1092
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: They put up posters all over the city. They designed

1093
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 1: these bandanas for everyone in back or to where to

1094
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 1: identify each other, which was like the feminist symbol instead

1095
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: of a triangle made out of triangles and would say

1096
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 1: like pro choice and backwar on it and stuff. You know.

1097
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: They make these sick bandanas that everyone wore. Folks made

1098
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: VHS tapes teaching tactics and started spreading them around the city.

1099
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 1: To new activists. So people did amazing shit for the end.

1100
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: I mean, people do amazing shit with the internet, and

1101
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: the internet makes a lot of this way easier. But

1102
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: they would have like spotters would do vigils at abortion

1103
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: clinics near a payphone and if they saw someone, they'd

1104
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: call the first person in the phone tree, who then

1105
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: calls two people from the phone tree, who calls two

1106
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: people from the phone tree.

1107
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 2: Phone trees. Man, that shit. The little parents, the school parents,

1108
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 2: who yeah, use that. That's a weapon for real.

1109
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: Okay, So the only time I've ever used one was

1110
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:00,439
Speaker 1: a squad defense in the Netherlands where the cop came

1111
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: and within like fifteen minutes there was like one hundred

1112
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 1: and fifty squads outside while I was like inside sweeping,

1113
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 1: and it was very nice.

1114
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 2: That's amazing, Yes, pohe and trees are powerful. Yeah, the

1115
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 2: days the days of old.

1116
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: I know, NA use a signal group, which is better

1117
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: and faster, don't get me wrong. Yeah, yeah, but it

1118
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: fucking worked. Slowly, they got the numbers to start holding

1119
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: back the hundreds of antis would swarm clinics, They got

1120
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: a thous Eventually they're getting a thousand people showing up

1121
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: every time the Antis tried to show up at a

1122
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: clinic and one of their slogans was we don't write

1123
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 1: letters were backhor which meant like, we're not writing letters

1124
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 1: of the fucking senators here. Yeah, right, we're showing the

1125
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 1: fuck up.

1126
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 2: Again. Old school tactics.

1127
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. They developed clinic defense boards, which when I first

1128
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: saw the drawing of them, I thought they were just shields,

1129
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: but they're not. They're like two foot by four foot

1130
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: pieces of plywood with like handles on the top and

1131
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 1: the bottom and so therefore putting at your feet and

1132
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: like stepping on and then holding on to and when

1133
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: you get a row of people, you can build a barricade.

1134
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: But it's not like a barricade that no one can

1135
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: reach over. It's a barricade that no one can like

1136
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 1: walk over, you know.

1137
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, And so you can use it to.

1138
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: Well protect a corridor for patients to get in and

1139
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: out these clinics. And so they show up and they

1140
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 1: have these huge signs that be like the clinic is open,

1141
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: you know, because people would show up and obviously they'd

1142
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: be like, oh, there's a thousand people here hate me,

1143
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: and it is awful that, you know, people had to

1144
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: face that down, but there was a thousand people there

1145
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: to protect their right to access to right, and they

1146
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 1: went on the offensive too. They would pick at the

1147
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: churches that harbor Operation Rescue. They learned street theater from

1148
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: Act Up, the coolest Fuck AIDS Awareness Direct Action group.

1149
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 1: I can't wait to talk about one of these days.

1150
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 1: They infiltrated Operation Rescue meetings for information and occasionally they

1151
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 1: disrupt them. The last story I'm going to leave with

1152
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 1: is that there's a story of this anarchist lesbian from

1153
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: New York. I had to hide her mohawk under her hoodie,

1154
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: I think, and her and two other women put on

1155
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: very conservative, like buttoned down floor length skirts so she,

1156
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, I'd love a floor length skirt.

1157
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: And then they would sneak into the meeting right and

1158
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 1: then dropt stink spray chemicals into the air vents, which

1159
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 1: is like really noxious, and it cleared the space and

1160
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 1: moments unfortunately, the three women ran out and they got

1161
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: kind of ideed, and two of them got caught, and like,

1162
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 1: the one woman spent five days in jail and the

1163
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: third woman got away. The third woman was like fuck this,

1164
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 1: I'm out of here, and got away successfully, right, and yeah,

1165
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 1: they were just fucking cool. And so like every time

1166
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 1: shit that's bad happens, we can respond and we can

1167
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 1: mitigate the worst of the harms and we can and

1168
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 1: we learned so well when we like not just work

1169
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 1: intersectionally but work in coalitions, you know, like work in

1170
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 1: ways that are like, oh, well, of course, Like when

1171
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: black feminists start doing this work, it's going to look

1172
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 1: different and it's going to work. We can learn so

1173
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: much from that group. And when you know, queer folks

1174
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: are doing this, it's going to be a little bit different,

1175
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 1: like and it's like they're learning from Act Up and

1176
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 1: they're doing it makes me happy when skies are full

1177
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 1: of evangelicals.

1178
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 2: Well, as you said, it needs to be above ground

1179
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 2: and below a little bit of legal with the criminal

1180
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 2: and what we learn is their tactics and there are

1181
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 2: methods to do both and it's okay, yeah, and sometimes

1182
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 2: it's necessary. Yeah, as Margaret invented, Yeah, the.

1183
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 1: Inventor of crime. Uh every crime. No wait, no, there's

1184
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 1: a lot of bad ones. Yeah, I know, because like

1185
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 1: usual yeah, like yeah, no, no, it turns out crime

1186
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: is a really bad way of determining something's moralness. It

1187
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 1: turns out some stuff is illegal because it's bad, and

1188
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: some stuff is illegal because society.

1189
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 2: Sucks, right, right, So we're talking about the ones that

1190
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 2: makes you know, society.

1191
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's what. Yeah, break, that's what he's break

1192
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 1: them all talking about, don't shoot your girlfriend, piece of ship.

1193
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: Every time there's a man in a story.

1194
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 2: Literally murders adult, it never ends well.

1195
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: Like Mike.

1196
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, like Mike from the original uh Jane Collective And yeah,

1197
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 2: we like and we like him, but we don't Nick Mike.

1198
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 2: But we don't like him because we know he was shady.

1199
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 1: Yeah who knows otherwise, But that one thing he did

1200
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 1: was good.

1201
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 2: On that documentary. He was actually on it. Oh really,

1202
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you need to go back. I told I

1203
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 2: see you and Sophie that email, Like, y'all you watch

1204
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 2: this something Nick Mike is.

1205
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 1: On here, I do because everyone should go back. And

1206
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: there's a callback to our episode we did about Jane Collective.

1207
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: Those as very He was described as handsome by one

1208
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 1: Jane participant, and I have forever on referred to him

1209
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 1: as the very handsome man who rides around on a

1210
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: scooter and performs abortions and then taught women how to

1211
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: do it and then dipped, which is like, if you're in.

1212
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 2: A thought, maybe he owed money to the mob or something.

1213
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 1: Away for him. That's my theory that might.

1214
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 2: Have been on It may have been on the show

1215
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 2: where they say he owed money and that's why he

1216
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 2: doesna appeared.

1217
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense, but you don't know.

1218
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 2: Got to go.

1219
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: You need to go watch it. There's so much written

1220
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: about Jane, which is great. I'm like, yeah, I'm not

1221
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 1: trying to.

1222
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately, it's more relevant today than and they're still alive,

1223
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 2: so the chunk of the collective is still.

1224
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: Alive, which rules.

1225
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:54,959
Speaker 2: So unfortunately they have to see this again. Though.

1226
01:03:55,640 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 1: Here's to everyone who's currently doing clinic escorting, making yes

1227
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 1: information about self medicated abortions or self administered medicated abortions available.

1228
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 1: Here's to everyone doing all the hard work. Here's to

1229
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: all the crime doctors. Here's all the doctors who did

1230
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: it while it was legal but still not safe. And

1231
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:22,000
Speaker 1: here's to you, Samantha McVeigh. What did you do that

1232
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 1: people can hear about?

1233
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 2: Well? I am on a podcast called Stuff Mom Never

1234
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 2: Told You, where we talk about specific organizations that you

1235
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 2: can support in this times, such as National network of

1236
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 2: abortion funds Abortion Funds dot org, which will often lead

1237
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 2: you to necessary information if you so need. Celebrating different

1238
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 2: organizations like Los Libres, who was run by Veronica cru

1239
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 2: Sanchez and they are a big organization in Mexico that

1240
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 2: are providing medication and help to the US as they

1241
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 2: know we are in the shit show. Yeah, and she

1242
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 2: has been celebrated because she continues and has advertised that

1243
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 2: she will help the US Texas just in case y'all

1244
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 2: need to know Leslie Brace once again. Yes, you can

1245
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 2: find me on my show. You can find our book.

1246
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 2: We talk about the Jaine Collective as well as well

1247
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 2: as as the Honea Shonees which I mentioned previously, which

1248
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 2: is a very interesting, uh. First Nations people who helped

1249
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 2: us become where it was for the women, for many

1250
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:30,040
Speaker 2: of us women. And yeah, you can find me on

1251
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 2: Instagram McVeigh dot Sam if you like pictures of sad dogs.

1252
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 2: Because I just gave her a bath, that's one picture.

1253
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 2: She hates bath. As well as we have stuff I've

1254
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 2: never told you Instagram and TikTok and kind of the

1255
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 2: dying Twitter that we barely use.

1256
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks Sam. Mamtha was close close those close.

1257
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 1: The Instagram name o Sam.

1258
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 2: Yeah like Bay Sam. It's true.

1259
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I got it right. Uh no, that was

1260
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 3: I always learned so much on the show, even ass

1261
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 3: like a listening so wow, not everyone sucks. Not everyone sucks.

1262
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:16,120
Speaker 2: Know this makes me happy.

1263
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for being on the show. Thanks Margaret for

1264
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 3: being Margaret.

1265
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 2: Thanks, yes, yeah giving me all this good information. You

1266
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 2: were as always the right guest for this, and I'm

1267
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 2: very happy hmm, always happy to be here.

1268
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 3: I told you it was the Samantha episode.

1269
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 1: And if you want to hear Sharen talk about stuff

1270
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: sin Scharen won't do our own plugs, I'll do it.

1271
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:40,920
Speaker 3: I'm one of the rotating hosts of it could happen here.

1272
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 3: I'm on Twitter at shiro Hero six sixty six and

1273
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 3: then Instagram it's just shio hero. But uh yeah, follow

1274
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 3: this show too. What's the what's the show's handles? Does

1275
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:51,960
Speaker 3: this show have handles?

1276
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 1: Handles?

1277
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 3: I should know that.

1278
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 1: No, we just use cool zone social media. Great, go

1279
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 1: follow cool zone Media and cooler Zone. Go subscribe to

1280
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 1: cooler zon media because then you get all of the

1281
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 1: ad transitions and none of the ads. That's our tagline,

1282
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: all right, that's it. Next week More Stuff, Bye cool

1283
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 1: People Who did Cool Stuff is a production of cool

1284
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 1: Zone Media.

1285
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from the cool Zone Media, visit our website.

1286
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 3: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1287
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.