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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Jim Anderson he's the

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Speaker 1: CEO of Social Flow based in New York City, and

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Speaker 1: we love to talk to Jim about all things kind

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Speaker 1: of social media technology, the uh, the Internet. Jim, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us here. So you know, you

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Speaker 1: look at Facebook. They one dismissal of the United States

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Speaker 1: and the Very States monopoly lawsuits. Is Facebook? Are they

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Speaker 1: in the clear? Now? I wouldn't say they're in the clear.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was a pretty stunning decision. I think

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Speaker 1: everybody agreed there. And just look at their sock price

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Speaker 1: if you want to see how stunning it was to

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Speaker 1: the market place. But you know, they are still a

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Speaker 1: giant target, right, they are a monopoly. It's funny I

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Speaker 1: heard you all talking about friends are in my space,

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Speaker 1: you know, sarcastically jokingly. Um, you know you're not gonna

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Speaker 1: go You're not gonna thank thank god, someone gets my sarcasm.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think, oh yeah, I remember friends or

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Speaker 1: in my space, but TikTok snaps or maybe the current

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Speaker 1: analogies and what Facebook will say if they compete every

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Speaker 1: day for consumer's attention, right, and they don't have a monopoly,

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Speaker 1: that's obviously their position. But they are not in the

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Speaker 1: clear at all, right, you know, whether it be the

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Speaker 1: STC going back and trying again with a stronger case,

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Speaker 1: whether it be Congress actually passing you know I anti

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Speaker 1: trust law, which is is going to require a level

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Speaker 1: of bipartisanship we have yet to see, or whether it's

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Speaker 1: something in the EU or other jurisdictions. This was a

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Speaker 1: US victory. It was a big victory for Facebook, but

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Speaker 1: they are by no means out of the woods. I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at a list of other companies that are worth

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Speaker 1: a trillion dollars. Facebook briefly eclipsed one trillion dollars. Actually

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Speaker 1: I think it's still is worth just about one trillion dollars.

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Speaker 1: And the others are Microsoft, which well it's worth two

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Speaker 1: we were talking about. Apple is worth more than two

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Speaker 1: billion dollars. Amazon is worth almost two trillion dollars um

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Speaker 1: and and Google is um one one and two thirds trillions. There,

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Speaker 1: these are big companies that do stuff arguably that we

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Speaker 1: all really need. They really improve the quality of our lives.

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Speaker 1: And does Facebook belong on this list? Well, the stock

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Speaker 1: market seems to think so. Right. Um, you know, if

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Speaker 1: if you're going to be in that kind of company

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Speaker 1: with two trillion dollar companies or or will say one

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Speaker 1: point seven trillion dollars in the case of Google. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Facebook is a consumer attention company and

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Speaker 1: what they've done, arguably better than anybody else, is for

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Speaker 1: two and a half billion people around the world, create

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Speaker 1: a habit of them coming back every single day right there.

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Speaker 1: Daily active users number is their most impressive one, and

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Speaker 1: so clearly people are getting something out of that. And

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Speaker 1: your points about the misinformation, the impact on elections, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of negatives that go along with that.

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Speaker 1: But also remember you have the ability to connect with

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Speaker 1: family and friends, say, in touch with people you haven't

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Speaker 1: talked with in years. I mean, is clearly something that's

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Speaker 1: bringing people back. And Facebook just as importantly has learned

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Speaker 1: how to monetize that right and that they make massive

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Speaker 1: sums of revenue from advertising off of that. So they

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Speaker 1: built a business and a business model that goes along

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Speaker 1: with that consumer attention. And I do think they belong

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Speaker 1: on the list. They're obviously very different Microsoft, I will say,

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Speaker 1: I use I also use Facebook almost every day. So um,

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Speaker 1: in regards to the misinformation, it seems like Google has

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Speaker 1: done a much better job handling this than has Facebook.

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Speaker 1: And Facebook seems to go, you know, kicking and screaming

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Speaker 1: into um, the land of regulation. Why don't they do

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Speaker 1: a better job of getting all of the fake news

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Speaker 1: and the you know, anger, hate and vitriol off of

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Speaker 1: their website. Well, I'm going to debate that point with you.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that I would agree Google does a

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Speaker 1: better job with that because specifically, remember Google owns YouTube.

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Speaker 1: You typically don't care about Google and misinformation about YouTube

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Speaker 1: and misinformation, but Google of course owns that, and YouTube

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Speaker 1: arguably has a bigger problem than than anybody with misinformation,

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Speaker 1: and as the exact same types of problems that Facebook does.

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Speaker 1: Which is, when you get to such a massive scale,

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Speaker 1: there's only so much humans can do, there's only so

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Speaker 1: much machines can do. Decisions are inconsistent at best, missing

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Speaker 1: at worst, and so it is a very daunting problem.

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not suggesting any of it should cry.

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Speaker 1: It's here for one and two trillion dollar companies. They've

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Speaker 1: got the resources to try to solve this, but it

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Speaker 1: is a very daunting problem on a scale that nobody

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Speaker 1: has ever been able to handle before. Jim, do you

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Speaker 1: expect is there an appetite within Congress to maybe take

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Speaker 1: a much tighter rein on big tech? There is absolutely

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Speaker 1: an appetite there, But I'll give you two two things.

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Speaker 1: They're one, Republicans and Democrats both very much want to

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Speaker 1: go after big tech, but for very different reasons. Right,

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Speaker 1: So again, how do you get those reasons to align

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Speaker 1: in action? I think there'll be an impetence. But the

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Speaker 1: thing that people aren't talking about is I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: there's that much consumer attention and interest in anti trust.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a snoozer of a topic, and as

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Speaker 1: big as the news was yesterday for Facebook and its

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Speaker 1: stock price, we track your consumer attention and we look

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Speaker 1: at the different topics and then I trust interest and

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Speaker 1: then the number of people clicking on stories about anti

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Speaker 1: sust is microscopic compared to things about the economy and

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Speaker 1: even fashion, you know, which is as a great sign

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Speaker 1: for for retailers. You know, fashion and sports and those

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Speaker 1: kinds of things are far far more interesting to consumers,

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Speaker 1: and ultimately politicians respond to consumers. It's not at all

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Speaker 1: clear to me that there's a consumer pressure on Congress

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Speaker 1: to actually cause them to work in a buipartisan ways

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Speaker 1: to actually follow through on their threats. All right, Always

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Speaker 1: great to get your intelligence on these issues, Jim, really important,

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Speaker 1: I think for us and for listeners. Jim Anderson, the

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Speaker 1: CEO of Social Flow talking to us about Facebook, the

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Speaker 1: big win yesterday and the value it's now worth more

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Speaker 1: than one trillion dollars. This is Bloomberg. I want to

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Speaker 1: get right now out straight back to Well, maybe she'll

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Speaker 1: have something to say about small calf, but I think

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Speaker 1: we're gonna focus more on UM fixed income and equity strategies,

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Speaker 1: a bigger picture look. Janelle Woodward joins us. She is

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Speaker 1: president at McKay Shields UM. They are a one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty eight billion dollar global asset manager. Janelle, let's

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Speaker 1: let's let me get your outlook on what's going on

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Speaker 1: in this market. First. I keep getting this UM mental

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Speaker 1: image of a roller coaster, you know, right when you

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Speaker 1: get at the top and it's kind of slowing down

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Speaker 1: about to crest, and um, you're at all time highs

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Speaker 1: on equity indexes. People are starting to really worry about inflation. Uh.

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Speaker 1: FED members are starting to say, we need to raise

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Speaker 1: rates by the end of next year. I'm getting that

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Speaker 1: feeling in my stomach. Do you get that as well? Uh? Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you for having me, um. I think the good

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Speaker 1: news is we don't have that feeling in our stomach.

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Speaker 1: But I do think that we recognize that just like

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Speaker 1: last year was quite unprecedented, their recoveries and as unprecedented,

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Speaker 1: and anytime we go through an inflection point when it

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Speaker 1: when it comes to policy, there's some digestion that needs

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Speaker 1: to happen, you know. Noting the Hawker tone of the

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Speaker 1: fat earlier this month, I think we left quite constructive.

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Speaker 1: And I think some of the themes that we've seen

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Speaker 1: across the equity markets, we've seen across the exed income

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Speaker 1: credit markets as well, and credit has been really well

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Speaker 1: supported going in the month. Then, so Janelle, one of

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Speaker 1: the things that the market focuses on somewhat, but it

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Speaker 1: seems like it's completely focusing on on the FED. Here

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Speaker 1: is fiscal stimulus. We've got some a couple of different

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Speaker 1: bills kind of bouncing around Washington. How important is that

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Speaker 1: to your outlook for the market if at all? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's certainly important. And I think if we look back

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Speaker 1: earlier in a lot of the interpretation around fiscal policy

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Speaker 1: and what it meant played a significant role in the

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Speaker 1: in the rate market. You know, when we look at

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Speaker 1: the infrastructure though on the table um you know, the

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Speaker 1: bill itself five hundred and eight billion isn't significant per

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Speaker 1: day um, but definitely isn't not in the right direction.

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Speaker 1: We think it's it's a very positive development when we

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Speaker 1: think about our infrastructure needs. You know, we're constructive on

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Speaker 1: the compromise, but we also think that there's going to

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Speaker 1: be a flow through in the fixed income markets from

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Speaker 1: a structural perspective. Um, And in that context, we're really

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Speaker 1: were really focused on the implications on the muni market

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Speaker 1: in particular, Uh, what happens to the muni market? I mean,

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Speaker 1: especially with this huge influx of cash and it's a

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Speaker 1: market that's so conservative and kind of slow to make moves.

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Speaker 1: What are the effects? Yeah, I think what's interesting is

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Speaker 1: we look back across six income markets over the last year.

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Speaker 1: Even one of the things we've noticed is really some

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Speaker 1: of the structural shifts that have taken place, and one

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Speaker 1: of those areas is taxical munis and we've seen a

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Speaker 1: significant growth in the taxiclemuni market. And so when we

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Speaker 1: put that against the infrastructure bill UM, you know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of that debt will end up flowing into the

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Speaker 1: municipal market and we think it creates a lot of

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Speaker 1: just a really constructive opportunity for investors, both in terms

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Speaker 1: of diversification UM, the ability to invest in clean water

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Speaker 1: and public power and public housing, and in the potential

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Speaker 1: entities UM. But at the same point, aligned with the

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Speaker 1: infrastructure bill UM, you know, they're just sustainability aspects of

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Speaker 1: this that we're hearing more and more about from our clients,

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Speaker 1: and we think, really it is a terrific opportunity for investors. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, real quickly talk to us about E s

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Speaker 1: G investing. We hear a lot more about it. How

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Speaker 1: do you guys factor that into your investment process? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's it's critical and as we think about,

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Speaker 1: you know, what we should be looking at from an

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Speaker 1: analysis perspective, and what constitutes materiality. E S and G

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Speaker 1: factors have become more and more part of this dialogue.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's both about downside protection but also about

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Speaker 1: just the direction of the businesses longer term. So we

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Speaker 1: see an opportunity through this growth, as I mentioned in

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Speaker 1: the tax in the taxable meeting space, but we also

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Speaker 1: see it broadly across across the taxable fixed income space.

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Speaker 1: Very exciting for mackay. Today we actually launch E S

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Speaker 1: G B, which is a core plus UH taxable UH

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Speaker 1: ets focus specifically on E S and G and and

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Speaker 1: we think it's really important really to demonstrate this this

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Speaker 1: value proposition to our clients within a core fixed income

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Speaker 1: place where they're allocated. So we think it's going to

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Speaker 1: continue to be very topical and important to investors going forward.

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Speaker 1: All right, Channel, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. As always. Janelle Woodward's president of

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Speaker 1: McKay Shields. Right now, let's get to something completely different.

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Speaker 1: It is twenty past eleven right now in New York,

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Speaker 1: twenty past five here in Jeremy. I want to get

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Speaker 1: over to Scott Freeman. He's the co founder and partner

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Speaker 1: at J S T Capital um talking about the latest

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Speaker 1: crypto news with us giving us his outlook on the

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Speaker 1: space and um, Scott, what do you think, by the way,

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Speaker 1: Dallas is a good place for crypto. I mean maybe

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Speaker 1: Austin is better, right, but UM, it's a place where

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of new, uh sort of

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Speaker 1: frontier kind of business going on, and I guess that's

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Speaker 1: is crypto still in that stage. Scott, Yeah, I think so.

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Speaker 1: I thinks always been a lot of technology accounting Austin

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Speaker 1: and UM. More recently, people have been leaving California two

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Speaker 1: Texas for tax reasons and I think that's just really

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Speaker 1: UM making Texas, Austin, Dallas more and more viable for

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Speaker 1: people in the crypto SMAs all right, Scott. So we've

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Speaker 1: seen the volatility continue in let's say bitcoin, for example,

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Speaker 1: it's up four point seven percent today. It bounced like

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Speaker 1: it hasn't a past kind of off. That thirty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollar ish level did get a little bit below. Oh here,

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Speaker 1: talk to us about China. That has been a big

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Speaker 1: part of the narrative recently, and it's not been good.

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Speaker 1: How do you think about some of the issues coming

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Speaker 1: out of China in terms of ban on mining and

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Speaker 1: restriction on crypto companies and how material is that for crypto? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think for bitcoin it obviously caused the

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Speaker 1: or a big factory and the climb he scene over

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Speaker 1: the la past few weeks. Um, But you know, I

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Speaker 1: think all of that has already placed into the market.

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Speaker 1: I think, um, you know, crypto bitcoin is is looking

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Speaker 1: good at going forward. And I think for all of

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Speaker 1: us we've been in crypto for a long time. We've

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Speaker 1: seen these issues pop up every few months, whether it's China,

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Speaker 1: whether it's technology, whether attacking. I mean, we've been through this.

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Speaker 1: Crypto is just a very very volto asset and it's

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Speaker 1: just a number example of that volatility. So, um, what

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Speaker 1: happens to bitcoin now? I mean when I think about

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Speaker 1: price action here, I feel like if it dropped below

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand, that could be problematic. But I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's just because it's a round number that I've

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Speaker 1: heard people rattle off a lot um and I feel like,

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Speaker 1: if it's gonna go up, it needs to go back

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Speaker 1: towards fifty and change to um to show success. Is

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Speaker 1: that fair? Yeah, I think that's fair. I think we

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Speaker 1: would kind of put the downside closer to twenty five

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Speaker 1: as supposed to thirty, just given where the price that

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Speaker 1: action has been and where the activity has been. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: from from January of this year, we've always thought of

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Speaker 1: arrange to fifty, which has been pretty accurate generally speaking. UM,

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Speaker 1: what we think there's a lot of value in some

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Speaker 1: of the other coins, especially East. You know some people

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Speaker 1: who are looking to get into the ecosystem. Bitcoin gets

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Speaker 1: all the headlines, but it's not necessarily the best opportunity

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Speaker 1: for for gonal forward. So I saw that Kathy would

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Speaker 1: and ARC they filed for US bitcoin et F in

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Speaker 1: partnership with twenty one shares. How important is that for

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Speaker 1: the space to have a Cathy would bitcoin etif? I

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Speaker 1: think it's great. I think that on top of other

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Speaker 1: positive news, I cat came out of announcement thing, but

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Speaker 1: they're gonna be UM offering an exchange trade bitcoin. So

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Speaker 1: I think things like that are all just great and

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Speaker 1: bullish for the ecosystem. Um, we're just waiting for the

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Speaker 1: sec it. I actually approved one of the e g s.

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Speaker 1: Think that would be great. There There are already a

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Speaker 1: bunch in Canada if you want in, and there's other

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Speaker 1: ways to For me, Cathy Wood seems like I thought

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Speaker 1: she wanted to be on the leading edge of technology.

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Speaker 1: Isn't she better positioned in the theory um or and defy? Like,

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Speaker 1: what what's she doing in digital gold? Well? I think

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Speaker 1: she does both, right, I'm guessing that she's looking at

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Speaker 1: all the opportunities. He says, you know what, she has

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Speaker 1: a good name, she's very well regarded, she's very reputable,

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Speaker 1: and my guess is that she thinks this is a

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Speaker 1: good opportunity, just an increase the assets she has. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's it's interesting, Scott, I'm wondering. It seems like the market, Um,

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Speaker 1: if you just look at the volatility around bitcoin, it's

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Speaker 1: searching for additional signs of validation, maybe for crypto. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know you had um, you know, you had Elon Musk,

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Speaker 1: you know, buy some crypto bye bye, I'm sorry bye,

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Speaker 1: by some bitcoin and allowed bitcoin to be used for

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Speaker 1: purchasing of some of the vehicles. What's the next big

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Speaker 1: thing that you think the market's looking for in terms

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Speaker 1: of validation of cryptos? I guess maybe an asset class,

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Speaker 1: a real viable asset class. Yeah. I think that there

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Speaker 1: will be others that come into the ecosystem that provide

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Speaker 1: access to it. UM we're working with some of those

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Speaker 1: parties right now, whether they're being UM banks, brokers, private banks,

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Speaker 1: people overseas. I just think you'll you'll start seeing more

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Speaker 1: and more people from traditional finance offering those rails and

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Speaker 1: access to the ecosystem. All right, Scott, Thanks so much.

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Speaker 1: Scott Freeman, co founder and a partner of j ST Capital,

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Speaker 1: giving us our seemingly daily update on all things crypto. Well,

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Speaker 1: the more coming up this is Bloomburton. Some really interesting

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Speaker 1: news this morning. United Airlines goes all in on premium

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Speaker 1: flyers with two hundred and seventy jets and some upgrades

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Speaker 1: two Boeing Max planes. It's big new is I think

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Speaker 1: for both United and maybe even more so for Boeings.

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Speaker 1: When we talk about the airline bizes building planes. We

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Speaker 1: talked to George Ferguson. He's the aerospace analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence,

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Speaker 1: and George, we gotta start with if you can disclose this,

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Speaker 1: where are you today and why are you where you are? Paul,

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Speaker 1: good day. So I'm in Dallas with all that great

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Speaker 1: discussion about Dallas just on the on the on the radio.

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Speaker 1: I guess airplanes in Dallas. That wasn't a bad thing.

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Speaker 1: A lot of important airlines here right to America and Southwest.

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Speaker 1: There's a conference down here in Dallas called Aero Engines America.

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Speaker 1: I'll be on a panel on Thursday, talk about maintenance

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Speaker 1: and you know, the useful life of an airplane and

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Speaker 1: all those heavy subjects. So, George, so am, I have

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Speaker 1: to understand that there's actually a real conference taking place

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Speaker 1: with real people, Yes, sir, live people. I think there's

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Speaker 1: how they do it in Texas. That's how they do

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Speaker 1: it in Texas. If they don't hide away in corners

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Speaker 1: wearing masks and keeping distance, it's Texas. Um, which is

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying we should all act like that,

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Speaker 1: but it's one of the things I love about Texas.

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Speaker 1: I love I love the airport there. Um. Just because

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Speaker 1: Solomon Brothers thought it was a bad place to be

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean I agree. Um. What's the state of the

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Speaker 1: airline industry then? Now, George, I mean, are we are

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Speaker 1: we gonna see a Texas sized comeback or is it

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Speaker 1: going to still be a while before the all important

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Speaker 1: business traveler gets back on the bus. Well, apparently, United

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Speaker 1: things of Texas sized comeback coming. Uh. What what we

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Speaker 1: see at Bloomberg Intelligence is we've had a really nice summer,

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Speaker 1: I think, a better pop and leisure demand, and we

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Speaker 1: thought we were going to get we're starting to see

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Speaker 1: that transition into the fall where that leisure travelers starting

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Speaker 1: to say to bit, I think their employers are asking

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Speaker 1: to come back to the office and their kids are

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Speaker 1: going to go back to school. Um. And so we're

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Speaker 1: starting to see a little bit of a law to

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Speaker 1: build as we get into the fall. We think there's

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Speaker 1: going to be a little bit of time before that

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Speaker 1: business travel picks up again, because I think we've got

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Speaker 1: to give these people back into offices and companies have

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Speaker 1: to get up the curve on what travel policy is

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Speaker 1: for business travel. Again, if you're going to Texas, they're

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Speaker 1: open for business travel, but not everywhere in the world

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Speaker 1: wants to take you for a lot of business meeting. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then so I think you'll take a time some

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Speaker 1: time to sether in business. Do you think you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have a rougher for queue one que? Then you get

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Speaker 1: back to a leisure bounce of the next summer and

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Speaker 1: we'll continue to build business as we go through the year,

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Speaker 1: which will improve things too. But again I think you're

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Speaker 1: set for a little bit of a well here in

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Speaker 1: the winter. All right, George, again, the news of today

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Speaker 1: United buying a bunch of jets from Boeing. That's really

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Speaker 1: good news for Boeing. It seems to me, what do

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Speaker 1: what do you make of it? Because I mean, you

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Speaker 1: know United, it's obviously a huge global carrier and they're

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Speaker 1: buying a lot of Max planes. Yes, so you know

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Speaker 1: what what it tells me is we've been watching uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, Bowing very closely because we've we've been a

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Speaker 1: bit concerned about the ability to deliver airplanes at the

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Speaker 1: rate they want to build in. They want to get

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Speaker 1: the thirty one airplanes a month sevens. I'm talking by

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Speaker 1: the beginning of and when we were looking at the

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Speaker 1: customer base and the challenges. One of the big challenges

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Speaker 1: is China hasn't approved the Max yet, and they're always

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Speaker 1: a source of a lot of demand for airplanes. We

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Speaker 1: still have a bit of a trade tiff going on

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Speaker 1: there and so we don't see that clearing up right away.

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Speaker 1: I think it's become a big political India not letting

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Speaker 1: the Max in. We were very concerned about how Bowing

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Speaker 1: was going to build those thirty one and who they

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Speaker 1: were going to shift them to. It looks like the

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Speaker 1: strategy of Bowing has been go back to your good customers,

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Speaker 1: give them great deals, accelerate some of their existing orders,

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Speaker 1: and build out the delivery sky and build out the

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Speaker 1: delivery skyline for three. So if you look at the

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Speaker 1: way you know United to take I think some sixty

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Speaker 1: eight airplanes in three, and think if you look at

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Speaker 1: what's happening now, they're building out that base delivery levels

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Speaker 1: they need for two and twenty three with some of

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Speaker 1: the more important US customers, And that's that's really I

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Speaker 1: think they've probably got a great deal. I think they

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Speaker 1: probably brought Bowing to the table to negotiate a great

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Speaker 1: deal and they said we got invite Airbus as well.

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Speaker 1: And then they picked up the eight three twenty one.

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Speaker 1: Probably had a good price because because Bowling doesn't have

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Speaker 1: a product in the line up, the matches the old

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Speaker 1: seven fifty seven, uh you know specs and so that

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Speaker 1: three twenty one does a seven five seven replacements for United.

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Speaker 1: I like the big ones are we gonna see any more? That,

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Speaker 1: you know? I like the seven. Um like a roomy

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Speaker 1: a roomy ship. Are those done for? And we only

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Speaker 1: got about twenty seconds left. Yeah, they are done for.

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Speaker 1: The good news is their chief and if you like them,

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Speaker 1: go out and put in a big exactly. I was

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Speaker 1: in the market for a Max seven business jet, but

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Speaker 1: maybe I'll us buying old and have it retrofitted. George.

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Speaker 1: Always great to get some time with you. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us out of Dallas. George ferguson

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Speaker 1: their senior are space and defense and airlines analysts at

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Speaker 1: a real life conference. This is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening

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Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen

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Speaker 1: to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer.

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Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three.

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Speaker 1: Pet On Ball Sweeney I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney.

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Speaker 1: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.