1 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to What Goes Up, a weekly markets podcast. 2 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: My name is Mike Reagan. I'm a senior editor at Bloomberg. 3 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: And I'm Bildona Hire, a cross asset reporter with Bloomberg, and. 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: This week on the show, Veldana. I don't know if 5 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: I've ever told you about this, but sometimes I literally 6 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: have daydreams that I own a farm and I'm like 7 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: off in retirement as a farmer. 8 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: I think everybody has those dreams. No, I don't know, 9 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 2: did I, especially if you live in the city. You 10 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: want a sort of more nature. 11 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: Filled life, more nature filled life, I guess. 12 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 2: That makes it, yes, Or you want a garden or 13 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 2: something like. 14 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, I don't want a giant, five 15 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: hundred acre farm that I actually have to work at. 16 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 1: I want a cup a few acres. 17 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 2: You don't want to have to do any work. 18 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: I'll plant some raspberries, maybe get some sheep. 19 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: I think sheep would require a lot of work. 20 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: Do you think? I think you just spring amongst let 21 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: them meet through grass, and shave them down once a year. 22 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: More to it than that? What else do you need 23 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: to do? 24 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: Feed them? I don't know them. 25 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: That's what the grass is for. But anyway, look, it's 26 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: a good week to daydream about being a farmer, because 27 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: let's be honest, if today's Wednesday, May twenty fourth, if 28 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: we tried to cover the market right now, with the 29 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: debt ceiling issue going on and that being so fast 30 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: moving and such a unpredictable thing, I feel like by 31 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: the time we got done, everything would have changed and 32 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: the news would be so different. So I think for 33 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: this week, let's all daydream about owning a farm. If 34 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: I let you on to my farm, I know you 35 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: refuse to join my professional network on LinkedIn for I 36 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: don't know, But if I were to allow you onto 37 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: my imaginary farm network, would what would you grow on 38 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: my farm? 39 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 2: Tomatoes? 40 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: Just tomatoes. 41 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 2: We can use them to feed your sheep. 42 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: I don't think sheep eat tomatoes. I think they just 43 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: eat the grass. 44 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 2: I really don't know. 45 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: Cauliflower. You wouldn't grow cauliflower. You're a city slicker. Yeah, 46 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: I don't know. If I don't know, if I'm gonna 47 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: let you on my farm, on my imaginary. 48 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 2: Farm, fine, I won't let you on my imaginary firm. Fine, 49 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 2: But our guests might have a farm. I want to 50 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: bring him in. It's Carter molloy, CEO and founder of 51 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: acre Trader. Carter, I'm so happy to have you on 52 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 2: the podcast and talk about your company. 53 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:36,119 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me here. 54 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 2: First of all, are you on a farm? 55 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 3: Not today, though many days I am. I also, while 56 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 3: I would love to invite you guys to my farm, 57 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 3: I'm also not really sure I want to join. 58 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 2: The There you go, I'm not the only one. 59 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: Fine, fine, I'm alone on my farm with my raspberry 60 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: and sheep tomato eating sheep. But Carter, tell us about 61 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: acre Trader. Really a fascinating platform you've started here that 62 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: actually lets people and I suppose institutions invest in fractional 63 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: ownerships of farms. Tell us a little bit how it started, 64 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: how it works, and what's going on with acre Trader. 65 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 3: For the quick background of the business, We've been here 66 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,519 Speaker 3: for five or six years working on this simple mission 67 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: of connecting farmers that want to grow their business to 68 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 3: investors that want exposure to farm land in their portfolio. 69 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 3: I grew up in a farming family here in Arkansas. 70 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 3: I's spit a dozen years in professional equity investing, but 71 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 3: in the background, I've been buying and selling farmland it's 72 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 3: a big passion of mine. Come to find out, there 73 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 3: are a lot of other people that also want exposure. 74 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 3: The reality is you may have to go put down 75 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 3: a million dollars and then manage a business, and that's 76 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 3: a non starter for most people. So we design an acre 77 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 3: Trader very simply to be a place where an investor 78 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 3: can come online, create an account, and within a few 79 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: minutes and a few clicks actually invest directly in entities 80 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 3: that own farmland. So each week we put up a 81 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 3: farmer too that's owned by a unique entity. You, the 82 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 3: investor can come on and invest ten twenty thousand dollars 83 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 3: or millions of dollars and have exposure and build a 84 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 3: portfolio of farmland through our website and through our technology. 85 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: Okay, so tell us more about how it works and 86 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: like who the investor base is. So, is it accredited 87 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: investors who are really interested in diversifying their portfolios or 88 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 2: what does the makeup of the client base look like. 89 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 3: That's correct, It is a credited investors on the platform 90 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 3: now that ranges from folks in cities to farmers and 91 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 3: rural areas and folks that live near farming to institutions 92 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 3: as well. Family offices, et cetera. The goal for most 93 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 3: folks is to find some stability and some diversification. That's 94 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 3: often why we see folks with real interest in farmland 95 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 3: is that slow, in steady compounding that it can offer 96 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 3: to investors. 97 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: So if I'm a farmer, I own a farm, I 98 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: sell it to one of these entities, I guess they 99 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: serve sort of as the manager of this investment. They 100 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: collect the rent and distributed among the investors. Is that 101 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: basically it. 102 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 3: Most often the farmer comes to us, actually, and it's 103 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 3: usually a farmer that wants to grow. If you think 104 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 3: about this from the farmer's standpoint, many farmers are in 105 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 3: growth mode. They have lots of fixed costs, right, very 106 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 3: expensive equipment, more inputs, seed and fertilizer as an example, 107 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 3: that they buy the better discounts they get with that 108 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 3: type of economy of scale and that business. Many farmers 109 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 3: are actively in growth mode. So they'll come to us 110 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 3: and say, hey, my neighbors retiring or for whatever reason, 111 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 3: the farm's being sold. There's upwards of one hundred billion 112 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 3: dollars of farmland that is bought and sold every year 113 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 3: in the US. So these farmers that are our partners 114 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 3: are out actively helping source and find farm lay where 115 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 3: they want to grow their business. And then you're exactly right. 116 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 3: We set that up where they often will have a 117 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 3: financial interest in that entity, and then they will either 118 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 3: share their revenue or pay a simple rent to that entity, 119 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 3: which then can be a cash distribution out to those investors. 120 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 3: So the investors from their angle, they can make money 121 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 3: from those cash rents coming in as well as through 122 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 3: appreciation of land over time. 123 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 2: And then tell us more about your background and the 124 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 2: inputus for starting the company. 125 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 3: My dad's a farmer. I've been around it my whole life. 126 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 3: It's just in my line. I think it's in all 127 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 3: of our life, right. You guys say you have this 128 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 3: dream of living in agrarian life, it's because we all 129 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 3: did at some point in generations. Back I spent my 130 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,679 Speaker 3: life grinding out alpha in public markets and working really 131 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 3: long days on Bloomberg terminal looking for alpha, and in 132 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 3: the background buying and selling land. And realize that here's 133 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 3: this multi trillion dollar asset that's been incredibly productive and 134 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 3: stable over time. There was no real mechanism for most 135 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 3: folks to get exposure to it, and so that was 136 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 3: really the genesis the business was frankly visiting with my 137 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 3: dad and telling him that this is in like twenty seventeen, 138 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 3: I thought bitcoin was a terrible investment idea. Really that 139 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 3: sparked this conversation of can we fractionalize farmland? Is there 140 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 3: a way where common investors can gain exposure to farmland 141 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 3: their portfolio. 142 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: What's fascinating is the returns are pretty attractive. There is 143 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: actually a farmland index that tracks the notional value of 144 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: farm land. I guess around the country, but talk to 145 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: us a little bit about sort of that return profile. 146 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: My understanding, it's got a pretty good track record. It's 147 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: not really correlated with risk assets or even treasuries. It 148 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: is correlated with inflation to some degree. Talk to us 149 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: about kind of what you can expect from that return 150 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: profile and the volatility and whatnot. As an investor in farmland. 151 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 3: First is important to consider what farmland is not. Farmland 152 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 3: is not a good risk quick scheme. You rarely hear 153 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 3: people saying, oh my gosh, I doubled my money on 154 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 3: my farmland investment this year. Inversely, you also don't hear 155 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 3: people saying, oh my gosh, I've lost all my money 156 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 3: on farmland this year. What investors often I'm looking for 157 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 3: is that's slow, in steady compounding of capital. And you're right, 158 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 3: those returns nay Grief is the index that puts out 159 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 3: those returns for farmland and timberland. Over the last twenty 160 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 3: or thirty years, it's been a fairly consistent low double 161 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 3: digit return eleven or twelve percent nothing, oh my goodness. 162 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 3: But when you compare it to other mainstream asset classes, 163 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 3: that return profile is pretty similar over long periods of time. 164 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 3: What's more fascinating is the consistency of those returns. You 165 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: don't have big, huge up years and huge down here 166 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 3: that you do across so many other mainstream asset classes. 167 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 3: So again, the consistency of the returns and that relative 168 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: lack of volatility an investor's speak, means that the sharp 169 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 3: ratio of farmland can be very very attractive the risk 170 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 3: adjusted returns there. And then in addition to that, you've 171 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 3: also called out a couple of key themes. What is 172 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 3: it can be inflation linked. It's actually shown to be 173 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 3: more inflation linked than gold, in that in times of 174 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 3: high inflation or persistent inflation, it tends to outperform and 175 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 3: also that it just doesn't have a lot of correlation 176 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 3: to other asset classes, like it's almost exactly zero in 177 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 3: its correlation to the S and P. So from a 178 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 3: diversification standpoint as well, we see folks adding farmland in 179 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 3: their portfolio to have that sort of set in and 180 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 3: forget it part of their portfolio where they're looking for 181 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 3: company a capital or wealth preservation. 182 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 2: I was curious about the correlation aspect as well, because 183 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: I was wondering what PUSH's price is higher or lower, 184 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: and whether or not, you know, maybe you can tie 185 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 2: to the housing market in some way, or what market 186 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: it would be similar to, or where those some of 187 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 2: those correlations might lie. 188 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,239 Speaker 3: So as a general sense, we don't really see correlations 189 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 3: to things like housing market or primary asset classes. Where 190 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 3: we do see some correlation again over longer periods of time, 191 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 3: is commodities, Right, so you think about we grow food, fuel, 192 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 3: and fiber on farmland, that tends to be those tend 193 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 3: to be a core component of commodity CPI PPI type 194 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 3: of indicators, and so as a result, we do tend 195 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 3: to be linked to that inflation and price over time. 196 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 3: And as you can imagine in the world of supply 197 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 3: and demand for farmland commodities. 198 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: It's fairly straightforward. 199 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 3: We have more and more mouths to feed every year 200 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 3: and to provide clothing and fuel to, and frankly like 201 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 3: less and less actual physical farmland. We lose like staggering 202 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 3: amounts of farm land every minute and every day here 203 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 3: in the US to development, to growth onto other now 204 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 3: larger solar developments, things like that. So finite supply, it's physical, 205 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 3: and it's limited and is shrinking and growing demand over 206 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 3: time with the products that we produce. 207 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: So I'm curious about sort of the risk management or 208 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: potential downside of this type of investment. Say, you know, 209 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: I buy a fractional ownership in a farm in a 210 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: state where there's a bad drought or I don't know, 211 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: a bull weavile outbreak or something that really impacts the 212 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: production of whatever they're growing on that farm that year 213 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: so much so that the farmer can't pay his rent 214 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: and maybe even you know, his defaults on his tracker 215 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: lease or equipment or whatever, and it's kind of has 216 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: a net loss for that year. How does that play 217 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: out in an investment like this? 218 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 3: So we tend to think of the world generally speaking, 219 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 3: as OpCo and propco. Right, your operating company is the 220 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 3: farming business. Your property company is owning the underlying land, 221 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 3: and so we tend to look more to be the 222 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 3: property company in that scenario. Whereas the farmer is the 223 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 3: operating company. They often have insurance to help backstop them. 224 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 3: Often government subsidize insurance at that so as a tenant 225 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 3: and as a partner, farmers tend to be very stable 226 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 3: over time, and as a result we see we do 227 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 3: see very low default into our vacancy rates throughout the ecosystem. 228 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 3: As an example of that, in the world of row crops, 229 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 3: so thinking about growing important commodities like corn, soybeans, farmer 230 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 3: often pays rent once a year before they plant. It's 231 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 3: an incredibly stable across the larger world of farmland. For 232 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 3: that reason, there are certainly risks in there, and one 233 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 3: of the greatest ones is just underwriting risk, making sure 234 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 3: that you are actually in fact buying farmland well. And 235 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 3: it's really hard to do because there's such a lack 236 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 3: of information in our world. So we've invested heavily. We've 237 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 3: got a large data science and engineering crew here as 238 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 3: an example, helping to build underlying geospatial analytics and data 239 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 3: for us just to help inform these underwriting decisions. And 240 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 3: we've got a great team well outbuilding partnerships with farmers. 241 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 3: What actually makes it through that that very very tight 242 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 3: filter that team employees. 243 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 2: I do want to ask you more about that, because 244 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: when I was talking to some of your employees before 245 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 2: the podcast, when I met them a couple of weeks ago, 246 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 2: I think somebody said, it's like, you can almost think 247 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 2: of it as like the Bloomberg terminal, but for farmland 248 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: statistics and for farmland data. First, I want to ask 249 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 2: you how is farmland performing of late? And I'm also 250 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 2: curious how it fared like what prices did during the pandemic, 251 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 2: for instance, and what it's been like over the last 252 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 2: couple of years. 253 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 3: So, as a general statement, on the appreciation side, of 254 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 3: the years before the pandemic, the five or six years 255 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 3: before then, we saw relatively muted appreciation. We have seen 256 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 3: some catch up in that long term call it mean 257 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 3: reversion in terms of appreciation the last few years so 258 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 3: we've seen more meaningful, call it double digit versus your 259 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 3: typical single digit type of growth in the underlying asset. 260 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 3: The rents themselves are the income coming off the farm 261 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 3: generally speaking, has also grown over that same time period. 262 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: I'm curious if there's any sort of shareholder democracy type 263 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: of components of this. You know, if I end up owning, 264 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: say fifty one percent of a farm, or you know, 265 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: I own thirty percent and of like mind with someone 266 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: that owns another thirty percent and we have that majority stake, 267 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: is there sort of an option to say, oh, you know, 268 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: I think we need to start growing corn instead of soybeans, 269 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: or I think it's time to sell. Is there any 270 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: sort of equity democracy at action as far as ownership? 271 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: You know, where is it all the the property companies 272 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: and the operating companies that control that? It tends to 273 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: be the latter. 274 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 3: So we have an investment committee that works on behalf 275 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 3: of the investors to consider what the best outcomes are 276 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 3: for those investors on an entity by entity basis. And 277 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 3: the reason for that is is we and then aside 278 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 3: from that, we also have common standardized corporate wraps and 279 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 3: government wraps around these entities for obvious reasons, to be 280 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 3: pretty standardized across our business. And what we want to 281 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 3: avoid is a fifty one percent layer coming in and bullying, right, 282 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 3: and actually making decisions that are averse to the best 283 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 3: outcome for the rest of that majority or best that 284 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 3: minority investor pool. So as a whole, that tends to 285 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 3: be more of the investment committee. Now, look, we speak 286 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 3: to investors. We've got to investor relations team here. We 287 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 3: hear their input every day and we certainly take that 288 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 3: that means a lot to each of these individual investments. 289 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 3: But again we have to consider the greater hole of 290 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 3: investment fooled capital there rather than one individual's desires. 291 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: And so carter to go back to the data mining question, 292 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 2: like how do you guys go about gathering your data 293 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: what actually makes good farmland when you are evaluating it? 294 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 2: And then where in the US or even internationally are 295 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 2: you guys operating. 296 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 3: So in the US we're in I think eighteen or 297 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 3: nineteen states plus Australia, so we're well o our forty 298 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 3: thousand acres invested through platform. In terms of what considerations 299 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 3: go into underwriting, you've got to consider soil profile, so 300 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 3: the health of that soil water availability is absolutely crucial, 301 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 3: and or places like the Midwest, actually getting water off 302 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 3: of the farm is just as important as it is 303 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 3: finding water. So water is a really intense consideration the 304 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: climate in that area, what is it good to grow? 305 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 3: And then the financial profile, right, so you're underwriting the 306 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 3: farmer themselves and that's an entire separate process. And then 307 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 3: the actual bones of that farm, the structure of it. 308 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 3: And this is where the data analytics really comes in 309 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 3: and is helpful. That can be government data sets that 310 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 3: we're processing and bringing in, satellite data sets as well 311 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 3: that we're bringing to our tools, and then importantly things 312 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 3: like comparable sales. I know this sounds ridiculous, but if 313 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 3: you're buying a home, you've got a pretty good sense 314 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 3: of value on price per square foot in that neighborhood 315 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 3: in farmland. Not only do we not have that data, 316 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 3: but the idiosyncrasies and quality from one partial to the 317 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 3: next can be pretty dramatic. So as a result for 318 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 3: gathering data they as an example, we're in with data 319 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 3: from thousands of courthouses around the US. We also have 320 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 3: a team of people who are literally going and attending 321 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 3: auctions virtually or going online and finding information and manually 322 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 3: and putting into that system. But that's the reality of 323 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 3: this older industry you work in, is there is a 324 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 3: real manual data gathering and filtering and analysis process that 325 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 3: goes into helping us understand and inform each investment decision. 326 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: I was clicking around on the website and for a 327 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: day dream farmer like myself, it's the pictures that are 328 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: just awesome. You know. You get these big aerial views 329 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: of the farms, and there's videos sometimes, and I think 330 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: you've now got me daydreaming about owning a vineyard instead 331 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: of a farm Ville dona. I think I might want 332 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: a vineyard. 333 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 2: There's a it sounds like you're ready to move. 334 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: California vineyard I've got my eye on after clicking around 335 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: acre Trator. But these daydreams are all adjacent to my 336 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: daydream of winning the lottery, by the way, that that's 337 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: race this is all going to do. 338 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: We even play the lottery. 339 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: When it's over a billion in pay out, A group 340 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: of friends of mine springs in action and we all 341 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: buy a share. 342 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 2: I don't eyone want to know what the most is 343 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 2: that you've ever won, like twelve twelve cents. 344 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 3: Isn't this a podcast about logical and reasonable investing? 345 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 4: Yes, it's supposed to be, Yes, yes, fair enough, fair enough, 346 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 4: But Carter, I'm curious what you know sort of the 347 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 4: regulatory regime is for you. 348 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: You know, are you are you registered investment advisor? Like, 349 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,439 Speaker 1: how does this company exist in the eyes of the 350 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: regulators and what process do you have to go to 351 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: both federally and state by state to launch a product 352 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: like this. 353 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 3: We've actually gone quite a bit further and stood up 354 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 3: our own broker dealer, so acri Trader has a wholly 355 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 3: owned broker dealer in order to make sure that we're 356 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 3: always compliant with the letter and this period of the law. 357 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 3: And it extends beyond securities regulation as well. Right there 358 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 3: are farming regulations you must take into account, ownership regulations, 359 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 3: a real estate regulation state by state. Suffice to say, 360 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 3: we have an incredible general counsel and team of attorneys 361 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 3: that work with her to help us navigate and make 362 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 3: sure that we're continuously presenting ourselves and the investment offerings 363 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 3: and the appropriate way and. 364 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 2: Gard I'm also curious about how liquid the market is. 365 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 2: I would imagine it's pretty ill liquid, but maybe you 366 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 2: can tell us more. 367 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 3: That's correct, So the market as a whole, the percent 368 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 3: turnover within farmland is lower than comparative assets. There's still 369 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 3: fifty upwards of one hundred billion dollars of this stuff 370 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 3: that trades hands every year in the United States alone, 371 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 3: So there's still quite a bit of There's a ton 372 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 3: of reasons why folks would buy or sell farmland, right, 373 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 3: So there is a decent amount of turnover out there. 374 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 3: We obviously as a company want to help improve that 375 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 3: liquidity within the market and then within our specific business. 376 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 3: We've been working on a secondary marketplace for a long 377 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 3: time where we would hope to allow investors to and 378 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 3: exchange in individual units or shares of those bums. 379 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, I imagine a platform 380 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 1: like yours would bring a lot more liquidity potentially in 381 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: theory to this market. But as of now, so if 382 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 1: I put a click around the website, it looks like 383 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: fifteen thousand is tends to be the minimum investment. Is 384 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: that about right? 385 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 3: Give or take? That's usually right? 386 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, and I'm locked in for at least a year, 387 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: I think, Right, what's the liquidity event for me? If 388 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: I do want to get out of that investment? How 389 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: does that work? 390 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 3: So the vehicles usually have a five to ten year 391 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 3: life on them, sometimes it can be longer, and this 392 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 3: is explicitly stated on the website. Sometimes it can be 393 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 3: shorter than that. So there's the duration of the vehicle 394 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 3: itself that the investor must take into account and the 395 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 3: illiquidity that comes along with that, and we are looking 396 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 3: for again this is sort of like your patient investing capital. 397 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 3: So setting over on the side a little bit, so 398 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 3: there is a real liquidity consideration in investing in farmland, 399 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 3: not just your platform, in the asset in general. And 400 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 3: then again I think you nail the specific point. There's 401 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 3: a one year minimum regulatory lock up on these types 402 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 3: of securities, at which point you can have the ability 403 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 3: to sell out to friends or family and we hope 404 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 3: soon through a secondary market place within our business as well. 405 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: And then can you tell us about any ESG aspects 406 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 2: when it comes to investing in farmland? Is that maybe 407 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 2: one of the considerations or one of the things clients 408 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 2: do tell you when they are looking to invest. Is 409 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 2: that a consideration they do, and it's an important one. 410 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: We don't lead with ESG. 411 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 3: Often that can be like meeting somebody for the first 412 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 3: time and they say, hey, you can trust me. We 413 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 3: believe as like stewards of this world we live in, 414 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 3: and as human beings and it's the right thing to do, 415 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 3: so the impact for farmers and growing their business is 416 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 3: certainly important. We enroll each farm in a sustainability standard 417 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 3: called Leading Harvest, so that we're not just using words 418 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 3: like regenerative or throwing around buzzwords. This is like a 419 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 3: merit based, checklist based sustainability standard on a per farm 420 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 3: basis that we enroll. We actually just passed all of 421 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 3: our farms through that here recently. We're very proud of 422 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 3: that milestone. And then beyond that, we do tend to 423 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 3: invest pretty intensely in things like CAPEX projects, water projects 424 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 3: to make sure we're utilizing water appropriately and not overusing it. 425 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 3: We do a good number of organic transitions in some 426 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 3: cases with farmers as well, so all of those are 427 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 3: heavily considered in the investment process and an important part 428 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 3: of what we do. We have an impact page on 429 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 3: our website where investors can go find that information as well. 430 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: Carter. Obviously, in investing, the magic word that always comes 431 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: up is diversification, and I wonder, obviously, if you're allocating 432 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: some percentage to farmland, you're diversifying away from a lot 433 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: of traditional assets. But I wonder in the future, is 434 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: there do you think there'll be a potential to sort 435 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: of diversify within farmland. For example, say I do want 436 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: to invest fifteen thousand in farmland, but I want it 437 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: split up one thousand over fifteen farms, kind of a 438 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 1: mutual fund of farmland. Is there a lane for that 439 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: to happen? Do you think in the future. 440 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 3: We've evaluated a number of pool vehicle type of products, 441 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 3: and I think there is a likely future where that exists. 442 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 3: And the other consideration then too is we do see 443 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 3: lots of folks come build that portfolio within our platform. 444 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 3: So most of our investors invest in multiple farms. And 445 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 3: you can think about our world broken into three primary buckets. 446 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 3: That is row crops, so things that you plant each year, corn, cotton, soybeans, 447 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 3: rice where I come from. Then there are permanent crops 448 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,719 Speaker 3: things to grow on. Trees tend to be longer duration 449 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 3: of assets. And then Timberland is a third component of 450 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 3: this land investing category and it's its own unique beast. 451 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 3: But we do see folks quite often building a diverse 452 00:22:45,040 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 3: flied portfolio within our website across those land use types. 453 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: Carter, we can't let you go just yet. We have 454 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: an attriition here on what goes up where every week 455 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: we talk about the craziest things we saw in markets 456 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: this week, or we're flexible this month, this year, whatever 457 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: you got do. What do you have for us this week? 458 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 2: Okay? Mine is so good? Actually so Taylor Swift has 459 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 2: been on tour, as the entire world knows. I think 460 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 2: it's supposed to be like the highest grossing tour in 461 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 2: the history of the world. And she played in Gillette 462 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 2: Stadium a couple of days ago and it was pouring rain. 463 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 2: And now there's at least one fan I couldn't actually 464 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 2: tell if it's more than one person who was at 465 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 2: that show, bottled a bunch of the rain water, put 466 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 2: it in containers and is selling it on Facebook marketplace 467 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 2: for two point fifty per container. 468 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. 469 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 2: Well, apparently there were a bunch of comments. I want 470 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 2: to say they're from swifties who are probably serious about this, 471 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 2: who commented like, is it rainwater from inside the stadium 472 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 2: or is it from the parking lot? Because it makes 473 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 2: a difference. 474 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: Well, that's a big thing. My daughter and her friends 475 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: actually went just to hang out in the parking lot 476 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia and there were like thirty thousand people there 477 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: just listening from the outside that this is such a 478 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: phenomenon like nothing. All right, next time I'm sending her 479 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: with gallon jobs. 480 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 2: You just have to label it like the and just 481 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 2: like Taylor, you know, whatever happened like and. 482 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: There's no room for fraud in that market whatsoever. 483 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 2: I'm sure you can tell when you look at the 484 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 2: rainwater that it was from there. 485 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: How about you, Carter, you see anything crazy recently? 486 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 4: You know? 487 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 3: The conversation around proposals are banning short selling seems pretty 488 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 3: wild me, like a really bad idea. We learned that 489 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 3: once around two thousand and eight, and yet here we are. 490 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 3: Here we are again, and every person just about involved 491 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 3: in that decision at that moment came back and said, whoa, 492 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 3: that was a bad idea. It didn't help. And here 493 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 3: we are again talking about it. So that one's bothering 494 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 3: me a little bit. And the other is the obvious 495 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 3: conversation around the dead ceiling. And let's put aside, like 496 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 3: the dead ceiling conversation itself, the reality of like black 497 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 3: Swan events, right, and we get used to the escalator 498 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 3: on the way up, and we forget there's an elevator 499 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 3: on the way down in markets and the world of 500 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 3: black Swan events, it feels like as maybe as I 501 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 3: get older, they tend to pop their heads up more 502 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 3: and more and again like a reason why we like 503 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 3: stability and what we do. But in all seriousness, you know, 504 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 3: it feels as though many investors don't hedge against that 505 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,719 Speaker 3: appropriately right what we see open calls pretty wide on 506 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 3: the VIX right now, and so plenty of like doom 507 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 3: hedging going on, But it still feels like markets don't 508 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 3: appropriately appreciate, nor do individual investors hedge those types of 509 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 3: risks in their portfolio. 510 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: Good points all around, and you know, it reminds me 511 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: of I think probably the most appealing or one of 512 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: the most appealing aspects of farmland is that scarcity notion 513 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: and that they're not making any more farmland. When's the 514 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: last time you heard, you know, this neighborhood was torn 515 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: down and a farm was put in its place. So 516 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 1: the opposite of crypto there with the never ending supply 517 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: scarce and getting scarcer by the day. So all right, 518 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: great stuff all around. I'll give you mine, I confessed 519 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: minds not exactly markets related, but it is financial related. 520 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: And it speaks to duration risk to some degree. I'm 521 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: stretching that a little bit, but I'll give it to 522 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: you anyway. This is courtesy of USA Today. I'll just 523 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: read you the lead because it's speaks for itself. An 524 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: overdue book has been returned to a Northern California library 525 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: after nearly one hundred years. It was the name of 526 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 1: the book was A History of the United States by 527 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: Benson Lossing, was published in eighteen ninety two. So missing 528 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: a few things in a History of the United States 529 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 1: published in eighteen ninety two. Somehow some guy found this 530 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: in his house, realized it was a library book, returned 531 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: it to the library. Sure enough, they're very happy to 532 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: have it back ninety six years late. So you're probably 533 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: wondering what's the financial angle of this. Well, now that's 534 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: time to play the prices precise. What do you think 535 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: the estimated overdue fee is for a library book that 536 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: was ninety six years late? Start with you Wildana, get 537 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: out your Texas instrument calculator and start doing some meth. 538 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 2: This is really hard, and also I can't believe that 539 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 2: this library is still around and open that they're able 540 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 2: to accept. 541 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: This book back. That's pretty amazing. 542 00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to go with three thousand, seven hundred 543 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 2: fifty dollars. 544 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: Three thousand, seven hundred and fifty dollars, Carter, standard prices 545 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: right rules. In effect, what do you guess the overdue 546 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 1: bill is? 547 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 3: You know, even though we're playing prices right rules, I'll 548 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 3: lean in a little harder. I'll go ten thousand, ten. 549 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: Thousand, seventeen hundred bucks, which to me is the crazy 550 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: part that it It is only seventeen hundred bucks after 551 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: ninety six years O me. Yeah, I think, well you're 552 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: both over, but I guess your closest. We'll we'll give 553 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: it to you. Okay, I win, all right, all right, fine, 554 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: the rare W for Vildana. The price is precise, but 555 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: the library, you know, it doesn't see obviously they're not 556 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: going to charge this guy because he didn't check it out. Presumably. 557 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: I don't think he's one hundred and thirty years old. Carter. 558 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: Great to catch up with you and hear all about incritrator. 559 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: Really fascinating acid class, I think. And I'm gonna go 560 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: back on there now and daydream about. There's a pistachio 561 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: form too that clut my eye what's your at any 562 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: farms come up that you've just been like, Wow, this 563 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: is this is the one. If I had eight million, 564 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: I'd buy this one. 565 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 3: You know, I have pretty regularly invested on our platform, 566 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 3: so I'm a I'm a big fan of what our 567 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 3: team does and the quality of farm offerings. 568 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: There very diplomatic answer there, I know. 569 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 2: I was like, that's not even an answer. No one's listening. 570 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 2: You can tell us. 571 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: Corener, thanks so much for your time. We really appreciate it. 572 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 3: Michael Donald, thank you both. 573 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure. 574 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 2: What Goes Up. We'll be back next week. Until then, 575 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 2: you can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal website and app, 576 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts. We'd love it if 577 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 2: you took the time to rate and review the show 578 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 2: so more listeners can find us. You can find us 579 00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 2: on Twitter, follow me at Bildona Hirich, Mike is at Reaganonymous. 580 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 2: You can also follow Bloomer Podcasts at podcasts. What Goes 581 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 2: Up is produced by Stacey Wong, and our head of 582 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 2: podcasts is Sage Paulman. Thanks for listening, and we'll see 583 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 2: you next week.