1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of My Heart Radio. Hey Saron, 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: it's up, Elizabeth Dotton that so much. How you doing 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: these days? It's been pretty good. How are your holiday 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: is looking awesome? I guess nice. You're looking forward to. Sure, 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: I'm glad you got that. You have to look forward to, Dude, 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: I just had a wicked black Friday. Not really, I 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: just just listened to a lot of soul music and 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: I called it black Friday. Well you know it's ridiculous. 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: Oh girl, I got one for you. Yes. I was 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: thinking about this the other day and I went and 11 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: looked up because I wanted to be certain, and it 12 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: was worse than I remembered. There are a bunch of 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: names in New Zealand that are considered illegal, like illegal 14 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: names like people have been denied the right to have 15 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: the name Stallion or Yeah Detroit as a as a 16 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: first name for a child. Another one fish and Chips. 17 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: Then there was Keenan, Got Lucky and my one of 18 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: my favorites, sex Fruite. But the reason why is because 19 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: I remembered. Originally there was a nine year old girl 20 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: who asked the court to emancipate her, and the court said, 21 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: girl we got your back. Do you know why the 22 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: court was so eager because her parents had named her 23 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: Telula does the Hula from Hawaii. That was her that's 24 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: her name, her first name, like Telula does the Hula 25 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: from Hawaii. What's going on down there? Yeah? Now, interestingly, 26 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: the ones I told you that we're made illegal were 27 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: all those ones you know, sex fruit and yeah Detroit, Yeah, 28 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: Detroit is fantastic. There were a couple of others that 29 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: they allowed through the New Zealand legal system because you 30 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: have to appeal to apply and say can I have 31 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: this name if you get some strange name, and so 32 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: some of the names that they permitted were twins named 33 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: Benson and Hedges. There was a girl named Midnight Shardonnay 34 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: and finally, my favorite number sixteen bus shelter and permitted name. 35 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: I think that I might new job needs to be 36 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: the one who approves names because yeah, yeah, it's popping 37 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: off down. But you know, our celebrities are pretty much 38 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: like New Zealand offenders. I mean, what did Jason Lay 39 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: the skateboarder name is kid Pilot inspector That's right, exactly. Yeah, 40 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: who had a middle name They named the kid Treehouse 41 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: so like I can't talk. Oh so you know that 42 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to judge, but I love to judge, 43 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: So go with your Those are ridiculous, thank you. You 44 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: know what else is ridiculous if you got some laid 45 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: on me. I do getting caught for your crimes because 46 00:02:37,760 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: you just look to fly. Oh word, this is ridiculous 47 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heist cons. 48 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: It's always murder free and one ridiculous Zarin, Elizabeth, are 49 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 1: you familiar with Sutton's law? Yeah? Wait, is that the 50 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: one about the banks? No? That was that the Horton principle. 51 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. You robbed the banks success where the 52 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: money is? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Sutton's law, Well, it comes 53 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: from it's taught in medical school. Sutton's law is that 54 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: when you're making a diagnosis, the first thing, first things first, 55 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: you always consider the obvious. So, um, it's like the 56 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: anti doctor House. I've heard that's a TV show. I 57 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 1: don't I wouldn't know, I don't. So anyway, Sutton's law. 58 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: They want to like, you look at the obvious. Um, 59 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: and the best way to diagnose and treat things as 60 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: quickly as possible is to like elimitate, because this is 61 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: essentially a medical albums. When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, 62 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: not zebras, it's like the one of the things they saying, 63 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: it's a good one. The law, though, is named after 64 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: a bank robber, a man by the name of Willie Sutton. Okay, 65 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: And so it was said that he was asked by 66 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: a reporter why he had done the things he done 67 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: did and why did he rob the banks, and he said, 68 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: because that's where the money is. Exactly. He was really 69 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: brazen about it. It's basically the no doi theory, and 70 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: so it makes sense. So Sutton, though he would later 71 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: deny having ever said that. Yeah, but then he commented, quote, 72 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: if anybody had asked me, I probably would have said it. 73 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: That's what almost anybody would say. It couldn't be more obvious. 74 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: So they love that expression in Washington. You always hear 75 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: them say that. It's like a it's a political philosophy 76 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, yeah, so exactly what is it the 77 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: it's keep uh, keep it simple, stupid? Oh yeah, we kiss. Yeah. Anyway, So, um, 78 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: now we have these medical students who were being taught 79 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: Sutton's law, learning to take things plainly confront the obvious, 80 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: all thanks to a legendary bank robber like that. Yeah, 81 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: I love him. Bank robbery influences, you know, medical science 82 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: is as it should be contin you think about it, 83 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: medical science started with grave robbery. So you know, I'm 84 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: just saying they're getting back to the very true full circle. 85 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: Leonardo da Vinci and Dicapriod Leonardo's let's scratch our chins 86 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: and say who was Willie Sutton? Okay, do it three 87 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: to who was was Suton? William Francis Sutton Jr. Born 88 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: June thirtieth, nineteen o one, So be ready to celebrate 89 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: his birthday, Brooklyn, New York, third or five kids. He 90 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: came from a really like hard scrabble tough family of 91 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: Irish immigrants, and they lived in a really hard scrabble 92 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: tough Irish neighborhood Brooklyn. Uh. He was taught really early 93 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: on the importance of a code of silence, and he 94 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: said that influenced his entire life. So he said later 95 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: when he was talking about his life that if someone 96 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: was picked up by the cops, quote, all they ever 97 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: got out of him was the exercise, meaning that the 98 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: cops could beat a person senseless, but they would never talk. 99 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: Get that workout. That's how it worked in his neighborhood. 100 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: He was arrested once and the police beat him for 101 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: five days straight trying to get him to name his accomplices. 102 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: This is I think before some of the reforms, yea, Miranda. 103 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: So certainly he never talked five days getting whipped on, 104 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: tell me who you're working with? Silence. So he got 105 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: his irish up the other way, and then he had 106 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: it at home, right, so that his family once gave 107 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: him the literal silent treatment. Um he uh. He stole 108 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: his teacher's lunch money when he was twelve, and they 109 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: were His family was so appalled that he would steal 110 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: a teacher's lunch money that no one in the family 111 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: spoke a word to him for an entire week. He 112 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: was just like a blank space to them. He said 113 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: it was the worst punishment he'd ever had. He'd rather 114 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: take a beating. Yeah, I've been given not for that long. 115 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: That's a week. So he's this tough little kid, right, 116 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: and he swam in the East River with his friends 117 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: like you know, amongst untreated sewage trash, Like yeah, he's 118 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: just George Carlin medical advice exactly. So he gets out 119 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,679 Speaker 1: of high school when he's fifteen, and no one else 120 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: in his family had ever completed their schooling, and you know, 121 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: which is common at the time, but there was a 122 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: big deal for him to graduate from high school. He 123 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: gets a job at a bank as an office errand boy, 124 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: and like he's super chill, nice guy, personable. He becomes 125 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: pals with all the cashiers, the tellers, and it was 126 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: from them that he learned like the inner workings of 127 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: a bank, all like the various processes and the vault 128 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: protocols and such like that. So he becomes this insider. 129 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: And then World War One approaches and he gets a 130 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: job at a munitions factory in West Virginia, so he relocates. 131 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: So one day he's there, he gets a telegram from 132 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: his mom telling him that the draft board had ordered 133 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: him to report for induction. He's been drafted. He right, 134 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: and he's actually, you know, pretty excited about this. So 135 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: he leaves the munitions factory job heads back to New York. 136 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: As he's getting off the train there, he keeps hearing 137 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: people say this word that he had never heard, and 138 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: he didn't know the meaning of it. Armistice, So he 139 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: asked around and they're like, um, it meets the wars 140 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: over So yeah, he finds out. Um he's thrilled, but 141 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: he's a little disappointed that Europe. Yeah exactly, he didn't 142 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: get to go over there. Three months later, he gets 143 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: arrested for the first time. He's like, well, let me 144 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: get the crime and then well and listen to this. 145 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: He's charged with burglary, grand larceny and abduction a fifteen 146 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: year old girl named Bessie Ender. Was she into it 147 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: and they just threw the book at him because you 148 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: know they could, and yeah, oh yeah, So here's what happened. 149 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: He's seventeen when exactly they were in love the moment 150 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: they met each other. It was just instant. And her 151 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: mom had died when she was little, and her dad 152 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: was like really controlling and only let her spend time 153 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: with other girls. That's all who she could play with, 154 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: hang out with. No boys allowed. Um. So they meet though, 155 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: and they're just like stars, little hearts floating in the 156 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: air around them. They're like the sid Nancy there Will 157 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: and Bessie. Yes, exactly, they knew the only way that 158 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: like a sheltered girl with a single dad and the 159 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: young bad boy from the wrong side of the tracks 160 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: could make a go of it. They decided to elobe. 161 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: So how are they going to do this? Well, they 162 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: go into her dad's office and steal money. She's like, 163 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: I know where the safe is, I know the combination. 164 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: Let's do this. They walked out with six dollars. Yeah 165 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: so little dowry. Yeah. So like all right, look, let's 166 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: start our lives together. They walk out on the street. 167 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: Willie sees this guy. Excuse me, sir, um, can you 168 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: tell me where the nearest marriage license bureau is? The 169 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: guys like looking at him, recognizes them. It's like, okay, 170 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: the man had seen a bulletin about a guy from 171 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: Brooklyn who said that he'd been robbed and his daughter 172 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 1: had been kidnapped. Willie fits the description. He turns out 173 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: Willie had asked the chief of police. Chief of police 174 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: immediately an So Willie gets jail, goes to trial, ordered 175 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: to never associate with Bessie again. But they're married. They 176 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: didn't make it, so you know they're they're split up. 177 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: They did see each other one more time, but it 178 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: was an accidental thing. It was at the dance hall 179 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: where they had first met. So they're there, Um, Bessie's 180 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: there with a bunch of girlfriends and Willie's you know, 181 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: looking cool in a corner. Um. They see each other 182 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: and they like walk towards each other, like out of 183 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: a Lifetime movie. And then he says, I'm gonna leave, 184 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: and if you want to talk, I'll be waiting two 185 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: blocks away. And then just like cool guys out the door, 186 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: which direction of two? She had to go in a 187 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: two block radius. It took a long time. Um, So 188 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: she shows up. She finds him right, she sniffs, she 189 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: smiths the air um and then he sees that the 190 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: engagement ring he'd given her was on a chain around 191 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: her neck. So she's still wearing it, but just like 192 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: in secret. And she's like, you know, my father has 193 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: arranged for me to marry this guy, Jack String, you know, 194 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: heir to the Straying warehouses, the Crown the Crown Heights Strings, 195 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: not the Crown Heights. She like, Bessie, her dad arranges us. 196 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: She says her dad, Look, I'm on love with his 197 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: Jack String. I mean no offense, Jack, but whatever. The 198 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: Dad's like, look, you are no longer a woman of 199 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: virtue after hanging out with Willie. We know what what happened, 200 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: and no one's going to marry you, so I had 201 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: to arrange this brutal and so they like, well, I 202 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: guess that's just how it's going to work out. And 203 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: they parted ways and he was just heartbroken. Damn. Yeah, 204 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: so you kind of wish around for a while. He 205 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: winds up getting a job at the Ptmoors Shipyard as 206 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: an apprentice burner. What was I like that. I know 207 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: a lot of people have been apprentice burners. I know 208 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: some actual journeyman burners and some full unionized burners. I 209 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: know you do. Um. So he's like cutting steel plates 210 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: with a settling torch. Um, he's a super hard worker, 211 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: really well liked. I mean that's like something you'll see 212 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: is this guy is just everyone likes. This guy is 213 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: a good dude. Um. He learns really quickly, picks up 214 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: a ton of overtime. He had a really good work ethic. 215 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: But then he starts to realize that burner knowledge might 216 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: kind of mesh well with the bank knowledge that he has. 217 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: He's like, have torch will travel. So in four he 218 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: became an apprentice to Edward Doctate, a master burglar and safecracker, like, 219 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: check us out, I know banks, I know burning Yeah, 220 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: they were burning in it was it okay. So Tate 221 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 1: had this rule when it came to safe cracking, always 222 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: work out of town, don't work at home. So the 223 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: first time they worked together was in Boston. They broke 224 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: into a drug store to crack open the safe um. 225 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: Sutton was like, you know, apparently they worked in New 226 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: York together, Pennsylvania. So Tate and his crew, including Sutton, 227 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: they pull off jobs all over the East Coast. It 228 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: was good while it lasted, but you know, he was 229 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: only with Tate for like a year. They parted ways 230 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: in Over the next five years, Sutton just goes into overdrive. 231 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: He robs a bunch of places. He's working by himself 232 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: at this point. He would pick up like one or 233 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: two guys here or there. Yeah he's got like he 234 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: does banks, jewelry stores, a life insurance company, a florist store. Yeah, yeah, 235 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: he's going the Tom McCann. Nothing was safe. He goes into. 236 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: Any time they've got like a register or safe, he's 237 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: on it. So it was the October robbery of the 238 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: Rosenthal and Son jewelry store that led to his first 239 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: major arrest. So he gets all dressed up as a 240 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: telegraph man. Hello, that's that's how they sound. And he 241 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: goes all the casual like up to the store. Hello, 242 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: there was a singing telegram man. Yes, yes, So the 243 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: porter opens the door for the telegram and really pulls 244 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: out a gun and works with that little round pillbox 245 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: hat and like a little short jacket, A little short 246 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: jacket looks like maybe like and no pants of course, 247 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: of course, want to pure appropriately picture it. That's what 248 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: it is. So he forces his way, and he's got 249 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: this accomplice, Marcus Bassett with him, who's a Bassett Hound. 250 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: He's got a dog dressed up as a telegram so 251 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: they pushed their way in. He's got a gun. He 252 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: forces his way in. I should note that like he 253 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: carried a gun on all these things, but it was 254 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: never loaded. Yeah, I'm smart, you know. So, um, each 255 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: employee as they are arrived for the day, he'd find 256 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: out what their job was and if they had access 257 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: to the safe and then if they didn't. And they're 258 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: arriving at work, he has like he has like a clipboard. 259 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: He's like name position, okay, and do you know no, 260 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: you don't tie them up over there. He's got like 261 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: a partition rope next. So he as they come in, 262 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: they're like that, you know, I'm just the window wiper. 263 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: I don't know to a bank in a while. Have 264 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: you is a jewelry store, whatever jewelry store. Every jewelry 265 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: store has a window wiper, a lot of glass. You 266 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: got a fair point there. So they're like, come on 267 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: and like so he ties them up over the side 268 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: until someone who comes in. It's like, yeah, I can 269 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: do the safe. I mean, I don't know which is 270 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: wiser to say yeah, I can do it and just 271 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: get rid of it, or be like, I have no idea, 272 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: I just vacuum here. True. So he finds someone who 273 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: could open the safe. They come in, he forces them 274 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: to open her up, gets out with a hundred and 275 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: twenty nine thousand dollars worth of jewelry. That's like two 276 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: and a half million dollars today. That's a fat score. Yeah. 277 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: And so there were apparently like undisclosed clues at the 278 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: scene of the robbery that led the detectives to Sutton 279 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: and Bassett. Um. The cops trailed Bassett's wife to a 280 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: diner where she was meeting up with Sutton, and Sutton 281 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: gets arrested and sentenced to thirty years in Sing Sing prison, 282 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: just north of New York City, right on the banks 283 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: of the Hudson. When we come back, I'm gonna let 284 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: you know how Sing Sing panned out for Willie Sutton's 285 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: Aaron Elizabeth, welcome back. Thank you, glad you could join 286 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: me quite the host. Thank you, thank you so much. 287 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: Please have a seat. Can I get you something to drink? 288 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: Number three so I don't know if I'm next, No, no, no, okay, 289 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to wait. When we left off, Willie 290 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: Sutton gaining cred as a serious robber man. That's the 291 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: officials been sent up to Sing Sing Sing Sing robber man. 292 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: He had an accomplice. Um, they just robbed a jewelry 293 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: store for almost a hundred and thirty thousand dollars in jewelry. Um. 294 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: He gets caught sent to Sing Sing. Here's the thing. 295 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: He escaped from Sing Sing December eleven. So he remember 296 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: he's just thirty years so he lasts like to um. 297 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: He and another inmate, guy named John Egan, they used 298 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: hack saw blades to remove the lower bars of their cell. 299 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: I can't be easy. No, cannot imagine that's easy because 300 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: if you just have the blades, because you got to 301 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: figure out a way to hold the blade and going 302 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: back and forth. Right now, at this point, like Sutton 303 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: because of his work with doctorate, he's a skilled lock pick. 304 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: But I guess that they're like, we just got a 305 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: star way out of this one. But so they cut 306 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: out of cells and then Willie uses his lock pick 307 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: skills to go through the subsequent doors. Um. There is 308 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: speculation that he had inside help from a prison guard, 309 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: but it's it's cooler to imagine that he just pulled 310 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: a bobby pin out of his hair or a Kirby 311 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: grip for those across the pond, and just made quick 312 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: quick work of the locks. That's way more fun. Get 313 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: no help. Um, So Willie and John Egan, they're creeping 314 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 1: out when they run into a trustee, and a trustee 315 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: is an inmate who is it has a job, and 316 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: it's usually like if you don't have a violent crime 317 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: and you've been like well behaved, you know they'll let 318 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: you do it. Um run into him. They tie him 319 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: up and left him in the basement under the mess 320 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: hall and just kept going They're like, don't tell a word, 321 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: and he's like, I don't know what you're talking about. 322 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: So they tie him up. Then they find two ladders 323 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: and they tie them into one ladder using wire and 324 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: they go over the west wall. So um. And then 325 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: at that time of night, the area really wasn't under 326 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: the watch of guards like the one that they jumped 327 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: out of, and they had to get a way car 328 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: waiting for him because Willie's wife had visited a couple 329 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: of days before, and the two of them cooked up 330 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: this whole plan. So at this point, he's married, he's 331 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,719 Speaker 1: gotten over Bessie. You can see my face. I'm over here. 332 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, is best No, Bestie's got a boring life. 333 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: So they get in the getaway car. Four days into 334 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: their newfound freedom, Sutton and Egan, they get to work. 335 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: No time to waste. You know, is there in these 336 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: banks aren't going to rob themselves? I've heard that about banks. Yeah, 337 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: Target Manufacturers, Trust Company. Yeah. So on December fifty two, 338 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: Willie Egan and then these two other dudes that they 339 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: picked up headed into the bank. So you said December 340 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: what day? So like four days after he breaks out, 341 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: four days, four days right, he's like, I need some 342 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: some road money exactly, and he's just itching for it. 343 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: So the four of them they get in there. They 344 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: have revolvers, a machine gun, and tear gas and this 345 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: is like the twenties, right, It's like a Thompson machine 346 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 1: gun is one of those. Yeah, that's the sound it 347 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: made because they didn't have bullets in it. Um, So 348 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: that's what they had to yell, po po um. So 349 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: they walk out with thirteen thousand dollars pretty good. They 350 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 1: had a getaway driver waiting, not the wife, someone else, 351 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: and as they left to like tossed the tear gas 352 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: grenade behind them into the bank for good measure, yours 353 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: and then exactly. So the next bank job was the 354 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: corn Exchange National Bank and Trust in Philadelphia. My bank 355 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: corn Exchange. So that was on February three. So Sutton 356 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: he gets dressed up as a postman and he talks 357 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: his way into the bank before it opened. He tells 358 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: the banker, look, I really I got to deliver this man, manager, like, 359 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: I I got I have so much corn on the 360 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: cob in my truck, so that there's corn in this bank. 361 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: And that's the corn Exchange. So they're like, I've got 362 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: corn and then I exchange it for corn? Can I 363 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: get baby corn? Change? Yeah? You want it broken up? 364 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: Can I get these cobs of corn broken up into 365 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: baby corn? Do they do? Is baby corn? That's just 366 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: like an eighties thing baby Cornyea, I think it's pretty 367 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: much not really a thing anymore because it's like, not 368 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go get a can of it, just go 369 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: to town on it sitting the driveway. Um anyway, so 370 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: where was that corn exchange? So they are like, we've 371 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: really got to deliver this mail, bro And they're like, okay, 372 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: come on in, it's corn time. And so then Willie 373 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: and Egan they tie the guard up and they wait 374 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: for the bank manager to arrive to open the vault. 375 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: Here's the problem. The bank guard total pro He gets loose, 376 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: and not just that, he gets his hand on one 377 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: of their tear gas bombs blue like sets it off. 378 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: So Willie and Egan they had to make a run 379 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: for it. They didn't get any sweet corn. They just like, 380 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: wait a minute. So the guard sets it off for 381 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: all of the Yeah. He was just like yeah, he 382 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: was like we're one, Like we're all going down with 383 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: the ship here. I just want about it here. So, yeah, foiled. 384 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: Later that same month, Willie he goes after another bank, 385 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: the Lafayette National Bank in New York. Um. He had 386 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: to give up on that one too the day of 387 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: because Egan didn't show up at the getaway car. Where 388 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: was Egan in the morgue he got he was shot 389 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: and killed in a shooting at a speakeasy. So I'm 390 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: going to count that as point five percent murder because yeah, 391 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,239 Speaker 1: but it was not part of the story, wasn't. It 392 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: wasn't Willie Sutton who did it. It was like, it's 393 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: an adjacent it's point five it's a half a percent, okay, okay. 394 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: As then Willie like after that, he just cools his 395 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: heels for six months. He's rocked by this. It's upsetting, 396 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: it's traumatic. Yeah. So but like he at the same time, 397 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: he just couldn't resist the robbing in the ceiling. Well, 398 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: you know, you gotta do what you could. Yeah, So 399 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: a lizard can't be and stop being a lizard exactly. 400 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: So here's the thing I should mention that Willie had 401 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 1: a certain philosophy the how of bank robbing. So he 402 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: told the people who was robbing everything he was going 403 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: to do. He laid it all out, like, here's what's 404 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: going to happen. Your joker coworkers are going to come 405 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: in and I'm going to very respectfully ask them what 406 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,479 Speaker 1: they know. And he did it in like a super 407 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: calm way. Don't forget he's got this really magnetic cool 408 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: personality that people don't automatically like yeah, robbery. Yeah, And 409 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: he felt like alleviating stress would keep people obedient and 410 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: less likely to do something stupid. They're going to make 411 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: better decisions. Yeah, and he's giving them a little bit 412 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: of control, like I'm gonna let you exactly people, and 413 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: I am all about find the calmest way to do something, 414 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 1: eliminate the stress, be chilled. So yeah, that is my 415 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: life skull. Uh So. Someone who witnessed one of the 416 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: robberies said that it was kind of like going into 417 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: the movies, except the usher had a gun one time, like, 418 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: your seat is right here down, I'm gonna ask him 419 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: to say, I have this gun, You're gonna need to 420 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: sit I'm coming back. So one time there were these 421 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: three painters that arrived unexpectedly while he was brobbing a bank. 422 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: They were there to paint um Willie so chill and 423 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: chatty that the painters just like obeyed when he instructed 424 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: them to lay out the drop pluts get to work there. 425 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: And so he's got all these people tied up and 426 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: got a gun on him. He's like just yeah, set up, guys, 427 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: and like he joked with them about how he wished 428 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 1: that bank robbing had as strong a union as the 429 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: painters did, and he like he made sure everyone had 430 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: a good time. He's just like, you know, cutting up, 431 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: working working out bits with were talking about four inch 432 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: block brushes. So like by the time Sutton and the 433 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 1: team and finished robbing that banks, the painters had already 434 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: completed painting one wall, like they and they were happy 435 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: about it. Like you know what, we all we all totally. 436 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: So there's Willie looking to rob another bank, um with 437 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: the patented Willie Sutton chill method, and he did right. 438 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: He decides to hit another corn exchange, this time in 439 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: New York. So he dresses up as a cop and 440 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: they all thought he was a male stripper. He's dresses 441 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: the birthday um. He tells all the bank employees to 442 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: sit and wait while the combination holders to the vault. 443 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: We're coming to work. I'm not imagining. That's the dance 444 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: music behind it. I need you guys to all do 445 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: but I can't. The music so infectious. So the bank 446 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: manager and then the head teller each had half of 447 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: the combinations. He's got to wait for those two to 448 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: show up. Once they get there, he forces them to 449 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,959 Speaker 1: open the vault. His gang made out with almost four 450 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: thousand dollars, which is like five dollars today, half a mill. 451 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: That's not a bad day at all. He liked the 452 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: corn Exchange in Pennsylvania though, so that was New York, 453 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: but that one in Pennsylvania was just calling to him. 454 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: The remember Attila and Bruce. He robbed a couple of 455 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: places twice. You know, he just really want to nail it. 456 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: He's get nostalgic. You're like to go back there and 457 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: do that again. We live in this one. He kind 458 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 1: of flugged the first one. He's like, I just I 459 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: won't feel right until I just completed do it right. 460 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: So he decides to try again at the corn Exchange 461 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania January for thirty four. So this time, though 462 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: he drops in through the skylight, he's mixing it up. 463 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: He gets in, he tells the guard to let the 464 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: employees in. As usual, he loves popping in before the 465 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,479 Speaker 1: work they starts. He's an early riser. And then he 466 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: and his accomplices handcuffed, and they didn't tie them up. 467 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: Now they handcuff him near the vault. Bank manager arrives, 468 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: forces him to open the vault. They get away with dollars, 469 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: so you know they're making good cash on this. Um. 470 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,959 Speaker 1: I bet he had his heart set on additional corn exchanges, 471 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: but it wasn't to be because the cops caught his accomplices. 472 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: So like a month later, they bust into Willie's apartment 473 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia. They pinched him for escaping, sing, sing and 474 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: robbing all the corns. He gets tried, the sentence to 475 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: fifty years, but then the sentences later converted to life 476 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: in prison. Since he was a fourth time offender, they 477 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: locked him up. You'll like this, Zaren. Between ninety six 478 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: and ninety seven, he made six escape attempts from prison, 479 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: with two of the six being successful. I like this 480 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: like every other year he's like, okay, time to give 481 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: it a shot, Give it a shot, so that my 482 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: favorite is August sunshine on my face. Come on, let's 483 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: do this and they go yeah, and they jumped in 484 00:27:54,600 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: the air to frame August one. I love this. He 485 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: Um spends what must have been an incredible amount of 486 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 1: time making a fake head in hand in preparation for this. 487 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 1: So he uses plaster, He gets a bunch of hair 488 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: from the prison barber, and he creates a seriously lifelike 489 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: fac simile of his own head. It's amazing. I don't 490 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: know how he got the bigness in your own shaping 491 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: is so impressive. It looks so good. It's not like 492 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: all you know, Yeah, no, this is it's crazy. He 493 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 1: makes a hand that looks super realistic. It's like if 494 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: I had it more time, I had another career. Well right, 495 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: so like he has the hands kind of poke out 496 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: from under the blanket to make it look realistic. He 497 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,479 Speaker 1: makes these decoys, He sets everything up to sneak out. However, Um, 498 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: there were some other inmates who were working on their 499 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: own separate escape plan at the time. Oh yeah, they 500 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: were all going on concurrently, and they didn't they didn't 501 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: look at the calendar and schedule these out. Oh you're 502 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,239 Speaker 1: doing years, okay, well then I'll put mine off for 503 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: like two weeks, okay, Um and those guys weren't subtle. 504 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: So Willie is like in the process of doing the 505 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: sneakings when the alarms go off and the guards are 506 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: coming after the escapees, and he has to like sneak backwards, 507 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: frustrating that worked so long, and some jacket and he 508 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: runs back to his cell and asked to act like 509 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: nothing happened. But he's got a head in the hand 510 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: and the bed with them, and they're like, son, okay, 511 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: so what's super cool is that the war the son 512 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: of the warden At that time, he later appeared on 513 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: Antiques Road Show with the head in the hand. Yes, 514 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: it's in like a custom wooden box that has a 515 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: label of Providence. It's amazing. It was like a couple 516 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: of grand and you can see he was kind of 517 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: disappointed because I thought it was it's priceless, but really 518 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: it's priceless. Yeah, no, it's amazing. It's amazing. So Willie 519 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: tries and fails again to escape. In April oft he 520 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: and eleven other inmates spent eleven months digging a ninety 521 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: nine ft tunnel. So they're all into like the multiples 522 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: of eleven eleven eleven months, nine ft tunnel, but like 523 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: a ninety nine ft tunnel is like el Chopo level. 524 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: You need like actual scaffolding instructure to bar collapses. So 525 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: it's almost a year of work, but it goes down 526 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: the drain in minutes because they were almost immediately caught. 527 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: And so at that point they transfer him from Eastern 528 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: State Penitential. They make it out, but they get caught 529 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: once they get out of the mid tunnel. Yeah, and 530 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,719 Speaker 1: they're like back in there. They just flooded the tunnel 531 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: and they had to swim back out. Um no, I 532 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: don't know how it all went down. Okay, So he 533 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: gets transferred from Eastern State penn in Philadelphia to Holmesburg 534 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: County Prison in Philadelphia, and that's where he made his 535 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: final escape February two So he's got two years later, 536 00:30:52,520 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: zaren closure. I want you to picture it. You're doing 537 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: time in Holmesburg County Prison in Philly for stealing a 538 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: truck and going around shoplifting food and essential items and 539 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: distributing them off the back of the truck to the 540 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: poor and needy. I should have got more gas before 541 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: I did. See how I made you a good jail bird. 542 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: I like that, thank you. So it's a cold evening 543 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: at the prison, the wind howls outside the walls and 544 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: snow whips through the air. You have two weeks left 545 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: on your sentence and you're just counting the hours at 546 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: this point, am You hear a thump of some louder coughing. 547 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: People start yelling when an inmate is having an asthma attack, 548 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: and the guards start shouting for help. You know, though, 549 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: that the inmate and question does not have asthma, and 550 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,719 Speaker 1: that that isn't what an asthma attack sounds like, so 551 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: you watch as the inmates starts to like comically gasp 552 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: for breath. There's no doctor on duty, so some of 553 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: the guards have to load them up and run him 554 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: to the hospital. There are now just two guards on 555 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: your whole cell block, and you hear the unmistakable sound 556 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: of a saw. Some inmates are cutting their way out 557 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: of their cells. One of the men pulls out a gun, 558 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: which you figure must have been smuggled in with the 559 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,239 Speaker 1: hacks off. They take the remaining guards hostage, shuffle them 560 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: down the corridor, forced them to unlock some other cells, 561 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: and in one of those cells sits none other than 562 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: Willie Sutton. So the inmates they stripped down the guards 563 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: and put on their uniforms and leave the guards tied up. 564 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: They then grabbed two ladders and tied them together. Well, 565 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: I would think that it wouldn't be wise to leave 566 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,959 Speaker 1: two long ladders lying around a prison. And this seems 567 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: to be a common theme, like there's two two ladders 568 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: in a spool of heavy wire. I don't know something. 569 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: So anyway, everyone makes their way to the prison wall. 570 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: Don't forget huge snowstorm outside. Suddenly the spotlight hits them 571 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: from the tower and it focuses in on the two 572 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: guys dressed as guards. Sutton yeels, it's okay, we just 573 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,719 Speaker 1: have to do some repairs. Not bad. You know what 574 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: they did. They acted like they knew and they just 575 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: kept on doing what they were doing, so it wasn't 576 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: even like they paused to get an Okay, you know, 577 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: we're just making some repairs. And then just exactly they 578 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: were supposed to be there, so they make their escape. 579 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: It was the first prison break since the place opened 580 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: in Yeah, they're out on the road and a milk 581 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: truck rumbles by, so they carjack it and actually they 582 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: common deer. They celebrated by toasting each other with bottles 583 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: of milk. They were super excited. The milkman who was 584 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: in there complained that he was going to get his 585 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: pay docked for all the milk. So Willie gives him 586 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: five bucks. He's like, knock yourself out. He's a freeman 587 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: until his ultimate capture five years later, so he stopped 588 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: for five years. He did two more bank jobs between 589 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: that escape and his eventual capture, and both were at 590 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: branches of the Manufacturers Trust Company, and the first one 591 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: was in Queens. He got sixty thou from that one, 592 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: and the other ones in New York City. That one 593 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,239 Speaker 1: failed because members of his crew were captured before they 594 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: could finish the job. And but all told, he stole 595 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: approximately two million dollars in his career. Let's take a break. 596 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 1: When we come back, I'm going to tell you how 597 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: he wound up back in the clink. Hey, Aaron, so 598 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: good those ads right, I'm just tucking my wallet back 599 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: in my pants because I was just buying three things. 600 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,879 Speaker 1: You were really, really good. I'm just gonna go back 601 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: and listen to more later, just over and over. Not enough. 602 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: We don't have enough in this That's why we refused 603 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: to pay for YouTube. Is I just want the ads, yea, 604 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 1: And what would I do without? Yet that's why I 605 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: love network television. Yeah, same, I don't watch TV, but 606 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: I mean if you did, that's what you would watch. 607 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: So Willie Sutton much like yellow Kid Vile. While Willie 608 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: Sutton loved dressing sharp, so I find that to be 609 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: a commonality in the convent. And he's yeah, he's like 610 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 1: really gregarious and and friendly and looks good of the walk. Yes, yes, 611 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: well I think you have to have that in order, 612 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: you know, if you look all like disheveled people are, 613 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: you gotta give him some show and you gotta say, hey, 614 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: look I know where I'm going. Look at me. You 615 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: want to see where I'm going? Right? You wanted on this. 616 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,879 Speaker 1: So he has his skill at bank robbing, He created disguises, 617 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: he has super charming manner. He always looks sharp. He 618 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,959 Speaker 1: earned him the nickname the could Yeah, great artistic talent. 619 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: They also called him slick Willie. And so why does 620 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: that combination always well, yeah, but I mean prior to 621 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: the Slick Willie, like Bill Clinton got the slick will 622 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: from Willie Sutton, like it would just be a yeah, probably, 623 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: but the idea of it's like Willie, who was the 624 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: first slick Willie. Yeah, and why is like and is 625 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: he free? Is it an innuendo? I'm sure it is. Yeah, 626 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 1: everything is an innuendom if you wanted to be so. 627 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: In order to track and don't forget, okay, he's escaped 628 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: from prison, he's on the run. In order to track 629 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: him down in his element, the wanted poster that they 630 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: put up, they distributed to Taylor's and so like, you know, 631 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: we've talked about criminals before who get plastic surgery. He got. 632 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: He did that. He got plastic surgery to try and 633 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: change his appearance, very common mid century. It was like 634 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: the thing, cut me up, let's do this. In the 635 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: end though, it doesn't matter, because it was his love 636 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 1: of fashion that was his ultimate undoings. For so many 637 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: of us, this has been true, isn't that so? In 638 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: ninety two, almost five years to the day after his 639 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: snowy escape, a Taylor's son, twenty four year old Arnold Schuster, 640 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:12,280 Speaker 1: recognized Sutton on the New York subway and he looked 641 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: at his immaculate dress knew right away, He's like, this 642 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: has to be him. Arnold had seen the wanted poster 643 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 1: in his dad's shop. But he was also like he 644 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: kind of fancied himself an amateur sleuth. Yeah, so for 645 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: the win once again. So um Arnold follows Sutton to 646 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: a gas station in Brooklyn and where Sutton, Willie was 647 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: there to buy a car battery, you know, just popping 648 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,280 Speaker 1: out for an errand um Arnold rings the fuzz. Willie 649 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: Sutton scooped right up. So he was carrying a thirty 650 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: eight caliber gun in a handmade holster. But you know, 651 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,879 Speaker 1: went quietly, like, didn't put up any kind of fight. 652 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: He denied who he was until fingerprinting confirmed his identity. 653 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: You got me, Um, They on him. He also had 654 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: like almost eight thousand dollars in small bills that's like 655 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: cargo pockets. And then they later searched his house and 656 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: found like three grand in cash and another thirty eight 657 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 1: So you know, he was strapped up by the way, 658 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: he only lived three blocks from police headquarters. Uh. So, 659 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: this detective was quoted as saying that Willie Sutton was 660 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: the nicest crook he ever locked up. UM. Reporters were 661 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,439 Speaker 1: absolutely dying to know how did you evade capture? Um? 662 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: And he said that he never contacted any old friends 663 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: or any family. Something we've talked about with these guys. Um, 664 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: he wasn't a big drinker, so he didn't make mistakes. 665 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: He didn't make mistakes, and yeah, I didn't get drunk 666 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,720 Speaker 1: and tell people's stuff. He quit gambling and he avoided women. 667 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,720 Speaker 1: He was became rather monastic. Um. He said his life 668 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: was a lot like prison, that he sat alone in 669 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: his room reading all day. So he escapes prison to 670 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: live in a prison of his own making. Yeah, but 671 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: and he said that he really enjoyed reading about all 672 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: the copycat bank robberies. That said that he was the 673 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: mastermind behind it because he wasn't involved. He's like, I'm 674 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: not doing any of this stuff. Now here's this episode's 675 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: other half a percent murder. So remember Arnold Schuster, the 676 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: Taylor's son who spotted soon he got shot and killed 677 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 1: outside of his home in two and it was um 678 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 1: umberto Anastasia, like Albert Anastasia, the mafia boss of the 679 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 1: Gambino crime family. Um, he was absolutely irate that Sutton 680 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: was captured because of a rat. Now, Sutton had no 681 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,839 Speaker 1: gang ties, no exactly professional curt Someone rat it on 682 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 1: him and he orders a hit on Schuster, and you 683 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: know he's the head of murder inc a hit. It's like, 684 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 1: all right, it's got happened with Flourish exactly. So that's 685 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: what happens. Willie has absolutely nothing to do with it, 686 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 1: doesn't know what's going to happen. I'm sure you probably 687 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,399 Speaker 1: wouldn't even agree to it and wanted to it's all. 688 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: This is revealed by Joe Velachi, mafia renegade first government informant. 689 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: So according to Velachi, Anastasia saw Arnold being interviewed regarding 690 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 1: his part in Sutton's capture, became enraged and allegedly said, quote, 691 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 1: I can't stand squealers. Hit that guy, just like as 692 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: he's watching the news, like that guy out of here, 693 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: he's like mafia Elvis's shooting the TV. Like well. So 694 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: Sutton finds this out and is absolutely heartbroken. Remember he 695 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 1: never had bulletin. It's a chill guy, one of your 696 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: school and it was like fair play, you know, like, okay, 697 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,399 Speaker 1: you caught me. Um. He tried to give. Willie tried 698 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: to give ten thousand dollars of his own personal savings 699 00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,320 Speaker 1: as a reward to capture Schuster's killer, but the police 700 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,279 Speaker 1: persuaded him not to There like, that's not going to 701 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: look right, that's going to be weird. We didn't tell 702 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: you right now, that's about that's weird for all of us. 703 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,800 Speaker 1: And then I'm dangerous for you. So let's not um. 704 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, but he was just devastated by that. Um. 705 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,359 Speaker 1: At the time of his arrest, Willie still owed one 706 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: life sentence plus a hundred and five years. How do 707 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: they work out? Never understand like six life sentence. Well, okay, 708 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: well you're reincarnated, got to come back to prison. He 709 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,800 Speaker 1: spent half his adult life in prison. He's not a 710 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,799 Speaker 1: good way to spend half your adult life. But while 711 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 1: he's incarcerated, he wrote two books about his life. Getting 712 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 1: ready for his book That's all Everyone does, he wrote 713 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: I Willie Sutton like I Claudius, I Willie Sutton. That 714 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: was published in nine, and then he wrote Where the 715 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:51,279 Speaker 1: Money Was There? It is seventy six. They're actually really 716 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 1: interesting accessible reads, like they read pretty well. Um, it's 717 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,920 Speaker 1: two more for the book club. We have got a 718 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: big um. He didn't have any interest in writing about 719 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 1: his life until the police officers are told him, like 720 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: totally disgusted that kids were running up to him chanting 721 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: we want Sutton like the kids loved him, and then 722 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:13,279 Speaker 1: the cops said, you know, the kids are making a 723 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,840 Speaker 1: hero of you. This is this is messed up. It 724 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 1: bothered Willie that kids thought he was someone to look 725 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: up to. Wrote the book as like a cautionary tale. 726 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: He all the money that he made was given to 727 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,719 Speaker 1: organizations that helped troubled wayward kids. So he didn't want 728 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,360 Speaker 1: people to follow in his footsteps. Yeah. Yeah, So in 729 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, his health was pretty poor, and he 730 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: had also been a really model prisoner. So despite that 731 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 1: life plus so he made it through the summer. Love 732 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: is real hard on the prison. They let him out 733 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,799 Speaker 1: Christmas Eve nineteen sixty nine on compassionate release um, and 734 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 1: he went on to become a figurehead for prison reform, 735 00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: really passionate about it. He also acted as a consultant 736 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: on theft prevention for banks, so he would talk them 737 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 1: through like these are the weak spots, like the equivalent 738 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: of a white hat hacker. But so in seventy he 739 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: stars in a television commercial for Connecticut's new Britain Bank 740 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,239 Speaker 1: and Trust company. Uh, they had the world's first ever 741 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,720 Speaker 1: credit card with the account holders photo on it. Remember 742 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,840 Speaker 1: when they did that again, like in the yeah you 743 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:26,200 Speaker 1: have the picture I don't know on the back of 744 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 1: the card. Um. So he's in this commercial. He had 745 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 1: two lines. One said they call it a face card 746 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,240 Speaker 1: and then the other Now when I say I'm Willie Sutton, 747 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: people believe me. The commercial and the announcer says, tell 748 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: him Willie Sutton sent you. So new Britain bank and trust, 749 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 1: small bank, small ad budget. Uh, they're competing against all 750 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,359 Speaker 1: these major banks with monster marketing departments. How could they 751 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,279 Speaker 1: get the most exposure for this new, groundbreaking product with 752 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: the least amount of money. So this Louis van Lewen, 753 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 1: president of the Van Lewin advertising agency, has this idea, 754 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: let's use a famous bank robber. And the bank is 755 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: immediately like, no, what is wrong with you? Where did 756 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 1: we find this guy? And they kick him out. But 757 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,319 Speaker 1: then they like start thinking about it, like, actually, that's 758 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 1: kind of dope, come back, come back. What is just 759 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: so crazy? It just might work. So they shoot the 760 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: commercial over the course of two weeks in Miami, which 761 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,880 Speaker 1: is where Sutton lived at the time. Um, he said 762 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,440 Speaker 1: of the experience, quote it's an unusual relationship, all right, 763 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: but it's a very pleasant way to make money, which 764 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,839 Speaker 1: I got. You know, hey, hey, you're handed to him. 765 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: He himself really didn't understand why he loved robbing banks 766 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,080 Speaker 1: so much that I was just trying to get to this. 767 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,280 Speaker 1: He did it. He did it even when he didn't 768 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: need the money. Was compulsion. Yeah, but he said after 769 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,239 Speaker 1: a successful robbery, he didn't feel happy about it. He 770 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,320 Speaker 1: felt disappointed. And he said he once read a Clarence 771 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,440 Speaker 1: Darrow quote popping up again for us here that resonated 772 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 1: with him. Quote the expectation of doing something gives you 773 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: much more happiness than you can ever get from actually 774 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: doing it. To the fantasy that is pleasing more than 775 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 1: the reality. And yeah, that that that energy, that like 776 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 1: adrenaline of it. Yeah, everything is perfect in your imagination. 777 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:17,840 Speaker 1: And he said to me, the money was the chips, 778 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:22,880 Speaker 1: that's all, okay. Yeah. He died at the age of 779 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,279 Speaker 1: seventy nine in Florida and he's buried in Brooklyn and 780 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,799 Speaker 1: the family plot um our researcher Andrea brought up something 781 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: really interesting. Um She wondered how different his life would 782 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,360 Speaker 1: have been if he had gone to war, either like 783 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 1: he was too young for World War One, incarcerated throughout 784 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,799 Speaker 1: all of before he got to the World War One. 785 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: Then he's in prison for World War Two, and that 786 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,200 Speaker 1: was something that he really wanted, Like could he have 787 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: gotten his adrenaline that way? Um, what if he had 788 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,960 Speaker 1: been able to marry Bessie, That's my question. I think 789 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:56,360 Speaker 1: that would have been good for us. Like, so he 790 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,400 Speaker 1: could have been a hero in like maybe two World wars, 791 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: possibly like a sergeant York. You don't know, Yeah, it 792 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,680 Speaker 1: could have been a husband and a father. Don't forget 793 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:05,840 Speaker 1: then like when he's on the run, he doesn't he 794 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:07,960 Speaker 1: has no relationship. I don't know what happened to the 795 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: wife that he comes to monastic after Bessie essentially, yeah, 796 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,919 Speaker 1: when he was but she kind of like floats off 797 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 1: into ether on these Um. I mean the thing is 798 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,280 Speaker 1: like we could we could think about this for almost 799 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,879 Speaker 1: every person on earth, you know, just like what are 800 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,759 Speaker 1: those moments, those defining moments that if it had gone 801 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,200 Speaker 1: a different way, Like how your life could have gone 802 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 1: in a totally different direction, both good and bad. You know. 803 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,279 Speaker 1: But it's interesting when you see someone's life plotted out 804 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 1: like that. You know, these two like big turning points 805 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:41,400 Speaker 1: of a life. I'm of a mind that with Willie Sutton. 806 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that marriage or military service would have 807 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 1: changed who he was. I think that he would have 808 00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: maybe had different outlets, but I think that like there 809 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: was something in him that drove him to do this. 810 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,000 Speaker 1: But I think that the point is well made that 811 00:46:54,200 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 1: the military service combat, it requires everything of a person, 812 00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,719 Speaker 1: so they are their experiences like the you know, although 813 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,840 Speaker 1: how you filter out life, you know that that process 814 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 1: gets changed when you're in combat. Were're gonna be like 815 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: trying to stay alive, so you're gonna be taking in 816 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 1: all your information so you're fully alive, just like robbing 817 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 1: a bank, you're fully alive. So I think that being 818 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,480 Speaker 1: fully live sensation would have satisfied and he could have 819 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,839 Speaker 1: found that hard wiring and it would have given him 820 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,440 Speaker 1: whatever that sensation he was chasing after, and then he 821 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,719 Speaker 1: would have had that as the framework that's how you 822 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,440 Speaker 1: get that feeling. And instead he doesn't. He goes to 823 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,000 Speaker 1: crime and then he says, this is how I get 824 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,680 Speaker 1: that feeling. So I think that if he would have 825 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:35,560 Speaker 1: found a framework for that feeling, he would have picked 826 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,840 Speaker 1: that framework and not shifted. I don't think the crime 827 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,440 Speaker 1: from what you described, it sounds like a gave him 828 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,879 Speaker 1: any moral pleasure. He wasn't fighting against the man. If 829 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,280 Speaker 1: we talked about all these people who have enemies there, 830 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,280 Speaker 1: who they're always robbing in a sense, and he doesn't 831 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,000 Speaker 1: seem to be one of those. It seems that he's 832 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: trying to wrestle with himself. It's an interesting character totally, 833 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 1: way more than just his willly sudden principle. They always 834 00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,760 Speaker 1: just here referred to him like he's always been boiled 835 00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,719 Speaker 1: down to basically a criminal philosopher. Yeah, and that's where 836 00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,719 Speaker 1: the money, like, you know, but there's so much more 837 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,000 Speaker 1: behind him, So it gets I like, I like his 838 00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: story gives you a lot to think about. Uh that 839 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,040 Speaker 1: that's all I have as far as Willie Sutton goes. 840 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,880 Speaker 1: That's me for today. Thank you, Thank you. I invented 841 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 1: him completely out a whole cloth, just kidding. Um. You 842 00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,480 Speaker 1: can find us online at Ridiculous Crime on both Twitter 843 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:28,000 Speaker 1: and Instagram. Email us if you want a ridiculous crime 844 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,120 Speaker 1: at gmail dot com and other than that, tune in 845 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:39,480 Speaker 1: next time. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and 846 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,640 Speaker 1: Zarin Burnett, produced and edited by Dapper Dave coust In, 847 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,600 Speaker 1: chief designer of the eponymous house of Coustan. Coulture Research 848 00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,919 Speaker 1: is by felonious fashion influencer Andrea's song Sharp and Tier. 849 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,120 Speaker 1: The theme song is by the tailoring Empire of Thomas 850 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 1: Lee and Travis Dutton. Executive producers are Ben What's Your In? 851 00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,799 Speaker 1: Scene Bowland and Noel Why do You Want to Know? 852 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:10,800 Speaker 1: Brown Dass Quiet Say It one more Time? We Dequeous Crime. 853 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,560 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of I Heart Radio. Four 854 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,799 Speaker 1: more podcasts to my heart Radio, visit the i heart 855 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,560 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 856 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:20,320 Speaker 1: favorite shows.