1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: I'm Will Lucas and this is black Tech, Green money. 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: Cccurrisman is a private investor, entrepreneur, and independent board member. 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: As a former music executive and talent manager, she's guided 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: the careers, business strategies, and brand development of many of 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: the biggest artists on the planet. As a board member, 6 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: she either currently or has out on the boards of 7 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: directors for Revline, Circus, Dates, so Let, Warner Music Group, 8 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Line Vine Grew, United Talent Agency, and more. Currently, she 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: leads Nexus Management Grew, a private investment company dedicated to innovative, 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: growth stage businesses in the consumer media and technology sectors. 11 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: Traditional media is still being disrupted daily by innovation that 12 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: provides a platform to social media commentators and creators, but 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: many new media companies have a hard time figuring. 14 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 2: It out also, and there are many stories of late were. 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: Well funded platforms either no longer exists or are today 16 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: not getting after it, not meeting it for potential. It 17 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: was all good, just so as someone who's an investor 18 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 1: in growing media platforms, I sec to paint a picture 19 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: of what the landscape currently looks like. 20 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 3: Well, well, you know, I think some of the really 21 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 3: the downfall of some of the larger new digital media businesses. 22 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 3: I think really speaks to the venture model, which is 23 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 3: quite broken, and I think we're starting to see where 24 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 3: the cracks and the pavement are by watching not just 25 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 3: these media businesses, but some of the other tech businesses 26 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 3: and other businesses that I think are now suffering because 27 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 3: of the valuations and the enterprise values that were so 28 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 3: frovy in the last ten years and didn't really reflect 29 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 3: the strength and the solid nature. 30 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 4: Of the business. 31 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 3: And by that, I mean, you know, now everybody's talking 32 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 3: about it, but we knew, We knew it was happening 33 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 3: when it was happening, right, We knew valuations were not 34 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 3: you know, we had companies that were based on valuations 35 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 3: with no profitability. We had companies that continue to raise 36 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 3: large sums of capital based on paper valuations, not based 37 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 3: on you know, an actual business model and the health 38 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 3: and structure of business. So it's not I would say, 39 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 3: a surprise that we're seeing a lot of these media 40 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 3: companies go away. They're sort of suffering from their own 41 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 3: perceived success because they did raise a lot of money, 42 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 3: and they raised a lot of money against the expectations 43 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 3: of some really really massive valuations and It's not to 44 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 3: say that these aren't great companies with great prospects, but 45 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 3: unfortunately they were burdened by their own success and expectations 46 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 3: that were set for them and buy them. 47 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: Really, So what's happening from the venture side that allows 48 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: that to happen. Is it just so much money in 49 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: the system that they've got to deploy it somewhere or 50 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: is it very charismatic founders? What's happening? 51 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a combination of things, right, Media 52 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 3: and tech are both sort of suffering in the same 53 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 3: you know, in the same downturn, and the irony isn't 54 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 3: it isn't really about the businesses. The businesses in many 55 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 3: cases are still thriving, right, They're still growing, perhaps not 56 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 3: at the pace that they did out of the gate, 57 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 3: or at the pace that was expected based. 58 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 4: On their valuation. 59 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 3: So you know, they are good businesses, good teams, good 60 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 3: underlying business model, but the expectations are out here, right, 61 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 3: and I think what you're seeing now is really a 62 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 3: correction to where it should be. But of course anybody 63 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 3: who invested at the high valuation sees this as you know, 64 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 3: the end of days, because the valuations are now coming 65 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 3: down to a place where probably they should have been. Anyway, 66 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 3: these companies probably shouldn't have raised so much money. Money 67 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 3: will cover up a lot of mistakes, and sometimes you 68 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 3: actually need to see and live your mistakes and own 69 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 3: your mistakes and set backs to be able to continue 70 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 3: to build a business in a healthy way. 71 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: So from an investment perspective, what does innovation. 72 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: Look like these days in media? 73 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: Because I brought up there's so many people doing this independently, 74 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: and you also have a lot of social media commentators 75 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: on these things. So what does innovation look. 76 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 3: Mean in any No matter how you slice it, media 77 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 3: is expensive. To build a media business from scratch is expensive. 78 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 3: I think you had a lot of companies really diversifying 79 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 3: too quickly across too many formats to be able to 80 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 3: chase scale and valuation. If you look at actually some 81 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 3: of the success raise in media, look at some of 82 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 3: the incumbents who have actually pivoted in an interesting way. 83 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 3: New York Times just launched their app. New York Times 84 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 3: is doing very well. This is this is a you know, 85 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 3: age old the old gray ladies they call her age 86 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 3: old media business that has gone from being an incumbent 87 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 3: and a legacy business and really pivoted in a very 88 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 3: very strategic way into the modern you know, into the 89 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,799 Speaker 3: modern era. But this is a company that's been built 90 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 3: over one hundred years, step by step by step. It 91 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 3: had foundation, it had real brand awareness, it had real following, 92 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 3: it had real authority in its space. So they had 93 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: all those foundational elements that were built over the years 94 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 3: to enable them to then innovate. A lot of the 95 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 3: newer companies really just you know, built really quickly, and 96 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 3: audiences were fickle, and it was really hard to sustain 97 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 3: and maintain a solid, you know, solid foundation as as 98 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 3: they needed to scale their audience. And then once the 99 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 3: you know, once the kind of curtain gets pulled back 100 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 3: a little bit, they're in real trouble very very quickly. 101 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: And so I think about being a social media being 102 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 1: on social media, very active on social media. It's very 103 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: difficult for people like media and across I guess the 104 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: many different demographics to leave social media to go to 105 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: another link, another location on the Internet. And so I 106 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: wonder what your thoughts are on Let's say I go, 107 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to the New York Times, and then I 108 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: got a paywall, and you know, maybe I'm not a subscriber, 109 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: so and but you're talking about their growing So how 110 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: are these things happening when a number one social media 111 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: platforms don't want you to leave, so they made suppress 112 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: those links out And then when you get to the 113 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: place now I can only read the first line of 114 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: a story. 115 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 3: Well, it's it's it's an age old market strategy. Right. 116 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 3: They have to have content that's compelling enough that you're 117 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 3: going to wanna that you're going to want to get 118 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 3: behind the paywall. I think they have subscribers because their 119 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 3: brand is mean something, right, It's like, how many streaming 120 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 3: services are you going to sign up for? Most people 121 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 3: have Netflix, maybe one or two others, But how do 122 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: you become somebody needs to come over there and do 123 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 3: and do like you know an. 124 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: Audit seriously seriously right? 125 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 3: But Netflix became what I call utility, right, something that 126 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 3: you just you pay like you play pay the electric bill. 127 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,679 Speaker 3: It's not something you turn off whether you're reading, whether 128 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 3: you're watching a show that's that's original to Netflix or 129 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 3: exclusive to Netflix or not. That is what every media 130 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 3: outlet aspires to, where the content is such that it 131 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 3: becomes your utility, comes something that you're not going to 132 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 3: live without. And I actually think a lot of social 133 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 3: media personalities have been able to build their own followings 134 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 3: and being able to monetize their own followings to many 135 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 3: at the expense of a lot of these you know, 136 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 3: larger digital media outlets. The idea is their monetization strategy 137 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 3: is different. They're able to use other platforms and other 138 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 3: platforms advertisers to help monetize and pay some of these 139 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 3: social media pundits and personalities. 140 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 4: That's what I love about the business. 141 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 3: I mean, the New York Times is a great example 142 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 3: of an existing media company, big media company that continues 143 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 3: to innovate and nurture what already existed in terms of 144 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 3: a following and hopefully build a few you know, new followers, 145 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 3: but they had it. What I love and what I 146 00:08:55,760 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 3: think the future of media is is these individuals who 147 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 3: who created who have a strong points of view, who 148 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 3: hopefully in some cases we've got more impartial views, who 149 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 3: are able to create content that is you know, sticky 150 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 3: and engaging and build their own followings because there's been 151 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 3: this great democratization of these social media platforms right that 152 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 3: you don't have to be a big, huge company with 153 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 3: a billion dollar valuation to build an audience, and that's 154 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 3: I think the greatest threat to media is the individuals 155 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 3: like yourselves and others who have something to say and 156 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 3: have a point of view and are able to create 157 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 3: content wherever they are and can build a following behind 158 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 3: them and monetize that follow That's that's what I think 159 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 3: the future of media is the individuals building brands around themselves. 160 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: And so I've read that you know you're focused at 161 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: nexus with innovative growth stage companies, and you know you 162 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: can debunk that if that's not true. But I wonder 163 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: what the reason behind sticking to growth stage companies is 164 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: because a lot of people think about what I'm maybec stage. 165 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: I've got a really great idea, but why growth stage? 166 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 3: As an investor, it's one hundred percent to do with 167 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 3: what my risk tolerance is and also to do with 168 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 3: where I add value to a business. And you know, 169 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 3: the early stage, very early stage companies. I almost describe 170 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 3: most of the success to the team. Is it a 171 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 3: team that has done this before? Is it a team 172 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 3: that can lead, can drive value, has had successes but 173 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 3: has also had failures. 174 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 4: To me, the idea is secondary. 175 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 3: To who's going to execute the idea and even secondary 176 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 3: to how well capitalized it is. And if I look 177 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 3: at like, the reason I got into investing is because 178 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 3: I spent my life in the music industry and I 179 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 3: managed artists, and my goal for the artists was, having 180 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 3: been in the business a while, is how do you 181 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 3: give them a second act? Right, Like, how do you 182 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 3: take that moment when they're at their absolute top of 183 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 3: their career and their greatest influence and use it to 184 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 3: leverage that into opportunities that give them the access to 185 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 3: generational wealth, that give them access to cap tables that 186 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 3: most people don't have access to. And so we started 187 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 3: investing on behalf of the artists into businesses like early 188 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 3: in Spotify right, businesses that didn't need money, weren't accepting 189 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 3: other checks, but would allow us to come in because 190 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 3: they thought it was interesting that the value proposition of 191 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 3: having artists and people who were connected with you know, 192 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 3: consumers and what the consumer base wanted. So that's how 193 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 3: I got into investing, really is to engage my artists 194 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 3: and give them opportunities to you know, opportunities that only 195 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 3: old wealthy people have had for years and years in 196 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 3: year and give them a seat at the table and 197 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 3: that's what got me into investing, and the reason that 198 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 3: I invest. 199 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 4: You know, I have a risk profile. 200 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,599 Speaker 3: I don't love the idea of putting in twenty investments 201 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 3: thinking one of them is going to work and hoping 202 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 3: and praying. 203 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 4: Right. 204 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 3: I don't have that. I can't sit through that risk, right, 205 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 3: that would stress me out. I like companies that have 206 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 3: product market fit, have teams, and where they are is 207 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 3: they're in a position where they're ready to put jet 208 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 3: fuel on their business. And that's also because that's where 209 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 3: I can add the value. Right as a brand builder, 210 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 3: as a marketer, as a business person, my superpowers are around, Okay, 211 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 3: you've got something really great. You've got the best business 212 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 3: or brand that not enough people have heard of. Like 213 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 3: what I can do to help your business is to 214 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 3: take it and put it on blessed. And that's why 215 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 3: you know, for me, i'd rather put money into a 216 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 3: business that's going that has you know, may not give 217 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 3: me one hundred times return and maybe one or two times, 218 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 3: but there's very little risk that it's going to disappear tomorrow. 219 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 4: Right, And that's why I don't. 220 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: Do early stage And it's purely a preference, purely risk 221 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 3: tolerance perspective and also where I feel I can add 222 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 3: the most, So. 223 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,599 Speaker 1: I mean check the resume. Cc was Vice President of 224 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: Worldwide Marketing at Epic Records Sony Music, where she led 225 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: the marketing team and oversaw the USN international strategy for 226 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: priority artists like Pearl jam Shade, Celine Dion, and Michael Jackson. 227 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: She began her career in the record business at Aris 228 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: the Records, working for the legendary Clive Davis as Director 229 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: of Artists Development in special Projects. From there, decided to 230 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: take her talent to private investment. What was the opportunity 231 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: she saw CEC speaks. 232 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 3: On It really was, I'd been working in the music 233 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 3: industry for twenty years. The opportunity to invest on behalf 234 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 3: of my artists gave me this visibility across a lot 235 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 3: of businesses, different industries, different management teams, different investor groups, 236 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 3: and it really allowed me to sort of diversify my exposure, 237 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 3: my professional journey, and my skill set. So I after 238 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 3: doing quite a few of these investments, it seemed like 239 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 3: a good opportunity to sort of allow myself to sort 240 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 3: of take a few different paths on my professional journey 241 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 3: and really do some light learning in all these other 242 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 3: industries and that's what got me into investing, And ultimately 243 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 3: why I sit on a lot of different boards is 244 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 3: because I love to have visibility into a lot of 245 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 3: different industries. But one thing that all of these industries 246 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 3: have in common is they're central to and brand building. 247 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 3: And whether it be finance, whether it be music and entertainment, 248 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 3: or whether it be consumer, they're really all like how 249 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 3: do you storytell? How do you how do you message 250 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 3: what you're about? How do you message your values? And 251 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 3: how do you disseminate that that message in a wide 252 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 3: you know, to a wide group of people. 253 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: And you mentioned this before. I'm gonna come back to 254 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: the board talking a little bit. But you mentioned when 255 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: the types of investments you involve yourself, is you get 256 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: to bring those experiences as you've had historically. And what 257 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: types of activities are you involved in operationally or otherwise 258 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: with the companies that you make. 259 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 4: Well, it really varies. 260 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'm involved in big companies like Revlon 261 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 3: and Warner Music and Man Group, which is a big 262 00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 3: publicly traded hedge fund, and I'm involved in earlier growth 263 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 3: stage companies that I'm invested in, and they all require 264 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:12,119 Speaker 3: different levels of engagement. I would say, you know, management, 265 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 3: finding the right management team and done quite a few 266 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 3: CEO searches and building the CEO CEOs team and management team. 267 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 3: Obviously in areas like music and entertainment where I have 268 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 3: a very specific and longstanding background, I get involved in 269 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 3: many areas beyond the sort of more high level strategic 270 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 3: board work, and it could really just be there to 271 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 3: support the management team wherever I can troubleshoot and help 272 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 3: make a difference. In the younger companies, probably much more 273 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 3: operationally involved in terms of you know, really helping guide 274 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 3: the management team, helping them make decisons, in some cases, 275 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 3: helping them raise capital, hire teams, build a business model, 276 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 3: pivot the business model, and help create opportunities and use 277 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 3: my network to help them create opportunities for their business 278 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 3: and themselves. 279 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: And so we had Ursula Burns at a natro tech 280 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: executive let someone sometime last year and she said something 281 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: that I thought was remarkable, and I wasn't interviewing her, 282 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: so I didn't get a chance to dig into this 283 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: sentiment she had shared, and she had she we were 284 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: talking about boards, and she didn't understand the fascination with. 285 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 2: Board service to this body of people that we. 286 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: Were in the room, And so I want to position 287 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: what I would follow up with somebody who's had your experience. 288 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you have Revlin, you know Uta Circuitay Sola 289 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: and lon Von and more, and you've had all these 290 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: wonderful experiences and what are some good reasons to desire 291 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: to sit on a board. 292 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 3: I'm glad you asked the question because I do do 293 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 3: a lot of do do a lot of talks about 294 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 3: board service, and you know, my side hustle is putting 295 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 3: women on boards. It's just something I challenge myself to 296 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 3: put ten women, especially women of color, on boards every 297 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 3: year because it's sort of opportunity begets, begets opportunity and 298 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 3: helping share that network. But I agree with her in 299 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 3: some quick cases. The first question I always ask a 300 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 3: room like that is make sure you've answered the question 301 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 3: why do you want to be on a board, And 302 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 3: very few people have the answer. The answer for many 303 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 3: people is immediately it's it's another sort of notch notch 304 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 3: in my resume. It's sort of the next thing. Once 305 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 3: I've done this, this and this, that's the next, you know, 306 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 3: the next step. 307 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 4: On the ladder. 308 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 3: It looks good. It's you helped my personal brand. I 309 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 3: think that could be part of the reason. But I 310 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 3: think there have to be a lot more foundational reasons 311 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 3: to join a board, and there are some, right, I 312 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 3: noted one for me. I wanted to expand beyond my 313 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 3: industry of choice, right, entertainment. 314 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 4: I loved it. I done it a long time. 315 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 3: It's very hard once you reach a certain level to 316 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 3: be able to pivot into other industries, right, to be 317 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 3: able to have that visibility at a strategic level, not 318 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 3: at an entry level, at a strategic level, and board 319 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 3: work is one of the ways you can do that. 320 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 4: Right. 321 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 3: It's you have transferable skills that you've learned building and 322 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 3: running businesses in your core field that you can then 323 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 3: lend to these other businesses. But also you're learning these 324 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 3: other businesses. I didn't know consumer products, didn't know about 325 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 3: supply chain, I didn't know about the capital markets. I 326 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 3: was able to bring my expertise into these businesses. But 327 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 3: more importantly, I've gotten so much. I am now, you know, 328 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 3: if not fluent, certainly conversant in all these other industries. 329 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 3: And at a certain point in your career when you 330 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 3: may say listen. I don't want to be just CCE 331 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 3: the entertainment person or the music person. I want to 332 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 3: both intellectually and professionally expand my skill set. 333 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 4: I think that's a really good reason. 334 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 3: I think for an operator of a business being able 335 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 3: to work. If you're a CEO of a business, being 336 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 3: able to work alongside and watch another CEO of a 337 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 3: business work, and to be able to partner with them 338 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 3: and help them but also learn from them. I think 339 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 3: that's a really good reason to do. To be on 340 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 3: a board. I think being able to expand your network 341 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 3: beyond your industry and be on a board with board 342 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 3: members that are from all sorts of different industries and 343 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 3: would be a great network for you another great reason 344 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 3: to do a board. I think where people get it 345 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 3: wrong sometimes is they're gonna make a lot of money. 346 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 3: There are some opportunities to do that, but it's not. 347 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 3: Board work is not you know you're stepping into you 348 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 3: know you're stepping in it. That's not what it is. 349 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 3: I think a mistake is to do it just purely 350 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 3: because you think it's it's a profile choice, and I. 351 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 4: Think it's important to know. 352 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 3: For example, if you're an operator in a business, it's 353 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 3: really hard to do board work right. You might be 354 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 3: able to do one, but when you're on a board 355 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 3: the time, you don't have to be there all the time. 356 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 3: They are very specific times you need to show up 357 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 3: and be involved. But you've got to be there. So 358 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 3: if you're working a day job, you can't say I 359 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 3: can't be at that board meeting. You can't say I 360 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 3: can't you know, be on that call. You've got to 361 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,959 Speaker 3: be able to create the time for that board service. 362 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 3: And the other issue I find with some people who 363 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 3: have a day job, especially if they're you know, they're 364 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 3: a founder or running a business, is if I'm an 365 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 3: investor or, I'm a board member on your company, I 366 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 3: want to know that you're one hundred and fifty percent 367 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 3: devoted to your day job. I don't want you using 368 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 3: your time and your you know, mental mass to be 369 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 3: supporting another company that doesn't help grow the business that 370 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 3: I'm involved in. 371 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 4: So it does become tricky, right. 372 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 3: A good you know, a good leader can see the 373 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 3: value of being on another board to help them developmentally 374 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 3: as a leader. But the idea they have to be 375 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 3: able to maintain their day job at one hundred and 376 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 3: fifty percent, and if that ever slips, you have the 377 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 3: duty to sure that you're fully focused on your day job. 378 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 3: The other thing I think people don't really understand is 379 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 3: there's real liability and being on a board actual liability. 380 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 4: So boards get sued all the time. 381 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 3: You have insurance, but you need to be prepared for 382 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 3: the fact that you have liability because you're a fiduciary 383 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 3: of that company. And I think you've seen it. You know, 384 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 3: there are people getting sued at Disney right now. There 385 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 3: are people who were sued the suing the shareholders that 386 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 3: sued Twitter, Twitter's board. You know, there there's been a lot, 387 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 3: there are a lot of lawsuits. If a shareholder thinks 388 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 3: that they did not that the board didn't act in 389 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 3: the full support of the shareholders, they're going to sue. 390 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 3: So just be prepared that there is liability that comes 391 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 3: with it, not you know, if the grass isn't always green. 392 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 3: Companies have problems and then you really on the hot 393 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 3: seat and you've got to be you know, roll up 394 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 3: your sleeves and get involved in in solving. 395 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: Those And so I'm gonna ask this question and it's 396 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: gonna sound. 397 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 2: Selfish, but there's us there's very core. There's very. 398 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: Credentialed people who listen to this podcast, so there will 399 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 1: be value across the board. So I have the privilege 400 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 1: of sitting on a few boards, university boards, Ohio Casino 401 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: Control Commission, we regulate all the casinos in Ohio, et cetera. 402 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: Some international corporate boards I've sat on, and I want 403 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: My question is this, there are for people who have 404 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: sat on boards, there's a desire to get on bigger boards, 405 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: and you don't want to just always trip over at 406 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: these opportunities. So how can you be specific and intentional 407 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: about creating opportunities for yourself? Because I'm not a black woman, 408 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: so you know, maybe I don't qualify for your mentorship 409 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: in that way, but you know, I want but seeh 410 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. 411 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 2: I appreciate that. 412 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: See but I wonder, like, how can people be intentional about, 413 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: you know, these opportunities seeking them out. 414 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 3: I think I think you have have to be intentional 415 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 3: about the opportunities. What I tell people, because you know, 416 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 3: when as soon as your sort of reach a certain profile, 417 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 3: inevitably opportunities are going to come your way. 418 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 4: And I would say this in the same way that 419 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 4: I would. 420 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 3: Speak to my artists about building their own kind of 421 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 3: career strategies. You're going to get the incoming phone calls. 422 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 3: You're going to want to say no more than you 423 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 3: say yes. 424 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 4: And so when you say be. 425 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 3: Intentional, think about the outgoing phone call. Think about why 426 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 3: you know the question we just answered, why do you 427 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 3: want to be on a board? Is it to expand 428 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:44,479 Speaker 3: your professional skill set? Is it to pivot your career? 429 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 3: Is it to expand your network? Then you ask the question, 430 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 3: Then you answer the question with what companies really interest me? 431 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 3: What value could I add to a company? And then 432 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 3: you start to formulate an opinion around the types of 433 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 3: boards that would be interesting to you, whether they're big, small, private, public, 434 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 3: you know, that's sort of secondary. What are the companies 435 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 3: that are interesting to you? Because you've asked those questions, 436 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 3: and I left off one point that I think is 437 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 3: one of the mission critical questions for yourself. Who else 438 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 3: is on the board? Right, both in terms of who 439 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 3: are you? Who do you want to learn from, Who 440 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 3: do you want to be a part of your network? 441 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 3: Who do you admire? Who do you want to spend 442 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 3: a lot of time with? Because you do spend a 443 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 3: lot of time with your fellow board members critical questions 444 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 3: to ask if you ask me. One of the most 445 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 3: pivotal boards I was on was actually a nonprofit board. 446 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 3: It was one of my first boards, and I arrived 447 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 3: at this board and there were seven sitting public company 448 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 3: CEOs also on the board. When I say it was 449 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 3: the highest functioning board I have ever seen, the most 450 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 3: high functioning people, entirely productive. Every meeting ran so well 451 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 3: and everybody left that we left every meeting with things 452 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 3: having been done, decisions having been made, And to me, 453 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 3: that was actually one of the greatest learning experience around 454 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 3: good governance, high functioning uh you know, board meetings and 455 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:34,719 Speaker 3: best practices. 456 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 4: And what's you know. 457 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 3: The byproduct of that is having spent all that quality 458 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 3: time peer to peer and elbow to elbow with. 459 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 4: These seven sitting CEOs. 460 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 3: Not only did I learn from them, but they became 461 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 3: part of my very very close network of advisors, of 462 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 3: mentors and yes of pipeline to future future board work 463 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 3: and career operati communities. There you cannot understate the importance 464 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 3: of the network. And I think sort of the board 465 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 3: pipeline gets a bit of a bad rap because it 466 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 3: has been historically very insulur but there's also reason for that. Really, 467 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 3: the decision around who gets on boards comes down to 468 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 3: what I call the three c's right capability. Obviously, the 469 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 3: person has to have the capabilities and the skill sets 470 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 3: to be on that board. Chemistry right really important. Are 471 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 3: you going to have chemistry with the other board members? 472 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 3: Are are you a growth mindset person? Are you a 473 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 3: fixed mindset person? Do you build consensus? Are you a 474 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 3: table pounder? Are you going to get in that room 475 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 3: and help it be really productive? And the last one 476 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 3: is character, And this one is the most important one 477 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 3: because I think it's the reason that boards have been 478 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 3: very exclusive. Unlike hiring somebody for a regular job, when 479 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 3: you put them in the boardroom, they have the enormous 480 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 3: power over and around the business. With that, you need 481 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 3: an enormous amount of trust of the person you're inviting 482 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 3: onto the board. You need to trust in their values, 483 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 3: in their ethics, in their you know, their ability to 484 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 3: not only add value, but to be constructive. And that's 485 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 3: not built overnight, right, You can't read that in somebody's 486 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 3: LinkedIn and understand you know what that character is and 487 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 3: you know haven't built that trust. 488 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 4: So that trust means that a lot of people call 489 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 4: people they know. 490 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 3: They call people they know, they call people they've worked with, 491 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 3: They've called people that that have great recommendations because people. 492 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 4: They trust have worked with them. 493 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 3: And historically that means it's been a very small pool 494 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 3: of people to pull from. And one of the things 495 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 3: that I certainly try to do is not only put 496 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 3: people on boards, but to ensure that the people making 497 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 3: the choices and decisions have exposure in their own network 498 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 3: to all of these amazing people that may not have 499 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 3: been on their radar before. Because it's not a supply issue. 500 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 3: I think it's a connectivity issue. Giving exposure to the 501 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 3: enormous supply of highly capable, talented people who are now 502 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 3: a part of their network, and they can build relationships 503 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 3: and build trust, which may lead to board opportunities, may 504 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 3: lead to other career opportunities, may lead to mentorship opportunities. 505 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 3: But I think really building that network and the relationships 506 00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 3: and the trust is important a part of developing the 507 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 3: you know, the next generation of board members and hopefully 508 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 3: much more diverse and representative generation of board members as 509 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 3: just you know, pipelining resumes and using search forbs. 510 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: So I was talking to Tristan Walker who's a friend. 511 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: It's hits on shake Check's board and foot Locker, and 512 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: we were talking about how you know, not only is 513 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: diversity on boards the right thing to do, but there's 514 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: also an economic reason there's diversity impacts the bottom line. 515 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: And I want to ask a question on this is 516 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: because at that same Afrotech executive we had with Ursula. 517 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 2: Burns and Merlin and Saint. 518 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: Till who's also on a lot of corporate boards, and 519 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: there was a conversation around should how how much weight 520 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: should we put into being on a board because you 521 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: may be black too the diversity they need that also, 522 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: And I wonder what your thoughts are on how we 523 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: should pursue board oppertunities. 524 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 2: Because we might also be black. 525 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that doesn't mean we're not skilled and 526 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: doesn't mean we have have an asset to provide. 527 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 2: But we're also black. How much weight should we put 528 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 2: into that? 529 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 3: Listen, I mean, if two people are equally as qualified 530 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 3: for a board role, bring representation onto your board, right. 531 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 3: I think you know, Tristan's point is a really good one, 532 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 3: and it's an economic imperative, it's not a diversity imperative. 533 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 3: You know, boards should reflect their entire stakeholder group all 534 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 3: the way through. Right, that is their consumer, that is 535 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 3: their employees, that is their shareholders, that is their management teams. 536 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 4: That is their board. 537 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 3: So all the way through organizations, the board should reflect 538 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 3: every aspect of that stakeholder group. And that just becomes 539 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 3: an economic, you know, imperative because that means you're going 540 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 3: to be able to better serve your end consumer, your 541 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 3: end business right having representation in the room. It's one 542 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 3: thing that actually has driven me crazy about the beauty industry, 543 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 3: which is still so segregated. Right, Multicultural teams live over here, 544 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 3: general market lives over here. And you know, if you 545 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,719 Speaker 3: want to actually get the best, you know for your company, 546 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 3: have representation throughout. Bring those multicultural folks in, have them 547 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 3: be at the point of origin of product, innovation, of marketing, 548 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 3: of c suite and yes of board, and you'll get 549 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 3: the benefit of being able to wrap your arms around 550 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 3: all cultures and the entire audience. And you also bring 551 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 3: some very important and critical perspectives into the room of 552 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 3: what they call the general market. So, but you know, 553 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 3: to answer your question directly, I think it's as important 554 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 3: that when we get on these boards that we are 555 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 3: high performing. We need to get on those boards and 556 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 3: not be in the back quiet, you know, cashing our ticket. 557 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 3: We need to come in these boards and have a 558 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 3: very strong voice and be able to make a real 559 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 3: impact on the boards. So yes, I think we need 560 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 3: more diversity, more people of color on boards. But it's 561 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 3: important when they get out to get on those boards 562 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 3: that they're there for the right reasons and that they're 563 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 3: there and can make an impact. 564 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 4: Otherwise we'll start going in the other direction. 565 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 2: Certainly. 566 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,439 Speaker 1: I think I read this from Wall Street Women's Forum, 567 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: and this was written about you. It says, utilizing her 568 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 1: artist development expertise to develop businesses and entrepreneurs, CC has 569 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: grown a portfolio of companies taking on varying degrees of 570 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: operational involvement. And I've referenced that because you said something 571 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: earlier regarding you know, changing from talent management to investment. 572 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: And so many of us, particularly career minded people, think 573 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: about they may be unhappy in what they're doing today, 574 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: they may want to do something else, and so many 575 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: of us think that we need to stop what we're 576 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: doing to do something else. You saw what you were 577 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: doing as Elite as a launch pad to do what 578 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: you're doing. Now, how should we be thinking about reimagining 579 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: our activities and reimagining our skill sets to be able 580 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: to deploy them to different targets instead of leaving what 581 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: we're doing altogether to start something new. 582 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 4: That's a really good question. 583 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 3: I think, you know, I think about that word reimagining 584 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,240 Speaker 3: a little bit, and I have word. 585 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 4: That I hear a lot, which is pivoting. 586 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 3: I think taking stock of the skill sets that you've 587 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 3: already developed. 588 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 4: I think the idea of doing something new is really semantics. Right. 589 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 3: You're going to bring your experience from whatever you've been 590 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 3: doing into the next thing you do. There are very 591 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 3: few experiences sets that have no transferable skills. Right. 592 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,399 Speaker 4: So when I say I went from. 593 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 3: Talent management building living brands into investing, because immediately you 594 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 3: see the same thread where entrepreneurs are like artists. Right, 595 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 3: you're building their brands, you're telling their stories, You're ensuring 596 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 3: that they what they want to put forward is also 597 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 3: what the consumer understands, creating that connective tissue that is consistent. 598 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 4: Whether you're dealing with music artists or you're dealing with 599 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 4: entrepreneurs and new businesses. 600 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 3: Launching a new business in so many ways is super 601 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 3: similar to developing a new artist's career. 602 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 4: And as soon as I kind of. 603 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 3: Understood that connective tissue, because there are so many familiar moments, 604 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,280 Speaker 3: it gives you a whole other level of confidence. 605 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 4: Right That's like, Oh, I'm not switch careers. I am 606 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 4: taking everything. 607 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 3: I've built and developed and learned and internalized, and I'm 608 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 3: applying it to a new uh industry, or I'm applying 609 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 3: it to a new position or a new career strategy. 610 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 3: But I would never say you're you know, You're never 611 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 3: starting from scratch, is what my point is, so really 612 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 3: being able to take stock of the amazing experience that 613 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,919 Speaker 3: you've already built and think about how it translates into 614 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 3: some of these other areas. 615 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity, Afrotech 616 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,800 Speaker 1: in the Black Effect Podcast Network and I Hire Media, 617 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: and it's produced by Morgan DeVaughn and me Well Lucas. 618 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: The additional production support by Sarah Ragan and Rose McLucas. 619 00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: Special thank you to Mike and Davis. When That's surround 620 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: Knowing my emoldru Learn more about my casts and other 621 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: tech disrupteds to innovators at afrotech dot com enjoy your 622 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: black tech, green money. Share us to somebody, Go get 623 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: your money. 624 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 2: He's some love.