WEBVTT - Ep. 9 - A Link Between Suffering and Hope 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:06.480 Warning this episode contains scenes that may be disturbing to 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:24.800 some of our listeners. In the eighties and early nineties, 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.440 Pablo Scobard and other well known drug lords cause an 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:32.519 instability similar to a war, not only in Medegin, but 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:37.560 in nearly all of Colombia. This period of narco terrorism 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:45.440 left a trail of pain that its victims still suffer from. 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:50.040 The Inflexion Memorial Park has forty six thousand, six hundred 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:54.000 and twelve holes. Each one represents a victim of narco 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:58.520 terrorism in Colombia between nineteen eighty three and nineteen ninety four. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:06.240 Those small holes represents Captain Umberto Coral, a memorial for 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.679 this victim, one of the thousands who lost their lives 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:14.240 in this war. Among so many deaths, the majority are 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:21.679 often not remembered, especially not as heroes. Here Jennifer Corral Beto's. 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:27.480 Sister Aki in Colombia and Saklum Mucco's Saka Mucco Tomnahaka 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:33.120 Mucco's dogument balis i sin om nahis a think said 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.160 he is as intol. 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.880 Here in Colombia. They have made many tributes, documentaries, they 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:43.880 make series, They do everything for certain people, but my 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.160 dad has never ever been mentioned in the history of Colombia. 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.320 In fact, many people ask me about people they might 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:52.840 know the story about, but not because I tell them, 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.640 but maybe because they follow my brother and they asked me, 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.760 what happened to your dad? They asked me, so I 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.680 tell them, but they say, oh, your dad wasn't in 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.320 this thing or that thing. No, no, I mean he 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.320 was super important. I mean nothing is known. 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.960 Jennifer is not mistaken. There is a Wikipedia page called 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:18.320 filmography on Pablo Scoar. On that page you can find 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:24.320 thirty three productions, including documentaries, series and fictional films, in 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:39.960 which the most famous Columbian drug lord appears Porkiquinustasista. 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:43.320 I mean, my son asked me why they don't honor 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:45.920 my dad more, Why he's never mentioned, Why he's not 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.440 in Colombian history, my twelve year old son. Imagine if 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.760 my twelve year old son, who didn't live what we lived, 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:52.400 and he said that. 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:58.640 Jennifer and above all her brother Beto have thought to 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:04.160 prevent Captain Carrals story from falling into anonymity, into oblivion 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:09.160 because the story of Paulos Cobard is known almost worldwide. 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.960 But where are the anonymous heroes who helped put an 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:17.239 end to him. Where is the thorough investigation to clarify 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.720 the murder of those who did not participate in the 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:25.800 corruption and perhaps died from it, like Captain Corral, m. 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.280 Were die locajoe Kreo is. 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:34.400 Colombia and the truth is. I believe that my dad 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.600 was killed by the Colombian state itself, according to what 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:40.440 I know, what my brother has told me today. I 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:42.720 say that, being more aware of the reality of what 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.080 he did, that maybe he knew a lot of things 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.440 at the time and maybe they wanted to silence him. 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:53.400 In Colombia, the state insists on hiding the truth. However, 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:58.000 society is increasingly active in demanding to know that truth. 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:02.440 It has taken too long while people witness a trustities 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.080 without really knowing what happened. 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:14.040 In Colombia, that in Colombia they would tell the truth, 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.320 the whole truth, not just the truth that's convenient to 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.800 the state, not the truth that's been covered up, but 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:21.240 the full truth about everything. 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:32.840 This is Transportista who murdered Captain Corral Episode nine, a 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:52.000 link between suffering and hope. As we have reviewed in 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:56.960 previous episodes, Colombia has been emerged in a very complex 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:01.880 armed conflict for over six decades. Complex because it has 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:06.440 involved multiple actors who have exerted violence against the population 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:12.040 of the wrong country, drug traffickers, guerrilla groups, paramilitaries, and 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:16.560 even agents of the state itself. Given the complexity of 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:21.080 the conflict, the Colombian government created a commission tasked with 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.800 preparing a report that would account for the context that 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:28.320 led to the armed conflict, as well as detailing the 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:33.159 cases that occurred within it. The Truth Commission for Clarification 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:40.760 of the Past Coexistence and Non Repetition. On June twenty eighth, 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:45.040 twenty twenty two, the Truth Commission published its final report. 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.680 It took three years and seven months, during which nearly 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:57.800 ten thousand victims voluntarily participated in individual and collective interviews. Additionally, 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:04.520 illegally armed groups in das reigenous communities, businessmen, politicians, police officers, 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:10.000 military personnel, and even former presidents among others, contributed to 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:18.520 the report. Jesuit Priest Francisco Rue, the commissioner's president, presented 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:19.080 the report. 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:23.000 Nun ten dierum keulr de armalo. 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:33.160 Communias keleian prote Helo la destruya Hladja paramilitarios. 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:38.200 He pointed out the violence perpetrated by different actors who 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:43.240 tore down entire communities while ironically claiming they were there 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:48.640 to protect them. At the ceremony, the then President elect 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:55.120 Gustavo Petro also participated, but incumbent President Ivan duqu was absent. 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:01.880 Discovering the absolute truth referred to by Jennifer Corral in 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:06.160 the previous segment, has been difficult, but there are Colombians 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.320 who have dedicated their lives to it. 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:12.160 Me no, but it's Mariae Emma wills Or Regon Yosoi 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:22.000 of UIs professor inn a Parte the National and Odra thens. 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:26.640 My name is Mariaeima Willis Oregon. I am or was 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:30.280 a professor for many years at one part of the 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:35.080 National University as well as a University of Los Angeles. 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.760 I was at the Institute of Political Studies and International 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:44.720 Relations and as a department director and associate professor in 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:50.040 other institutions. Oh, I'm sorry, sorry, I missed a. 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:55.400 Part an important part. Mariaema was involved in establishing the 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.680 National Center for Historical Memory. It is an initiative to 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:03.200 the develop a multi format archive of the memory of 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:07.080 the most painful events of the armed conflict in Colombia. 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:13.400 Itami, papel digamos, the media, the articular or institutional. 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:16.480 Memorial speak. 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:20.400 I also have a role, let's say, as a meviator, 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:25.800 as an institutional coordinator with the security forces that want 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:30.000 to remember their victims. So I also know something about 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:36.000 the memory processes undertaken by the Colombian police and army, especially. 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.960 In the context of the violence that plagues are continent 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.319 memory begins to play a fundamental role. 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:54.160 Is eunopienza and America Latina and the Ituras and Odrospa 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.200 isis last week mastanac memoria. 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:01.079 If we think about other countries in Latin America that 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:07.800 come from dictatorships, well, at that time, in other countries too, 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:12.679 victims remembered as a way to fight against impunity and 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:16.959 to claim the dignity of their death or their missing ones. 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:18.800 Let's put it in that way. 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:23.000 Colombia did not come from a dictatorship. It was a 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:26.719 democracy with many areas of opportunity, but it was not 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:32.280 a dictatorship. However, its society had thousands of victims who 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.600 wanted to tell what was happening in the conflict. 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.400 In Dos Lalai. The victim. 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:44.080 And dos Milsinko established cass A you recons tru itial 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.920 conflict last dynamic as a conflict TORMO. 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:52.240 So the Victims and Justice Law and Peace, which was 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.959 approved in two thousand and five, establishes the need to 0:09:56.080 --> 0:10:00.400 reconstruct the conflict, the dynamics of the armed conflict, and 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:07.000 this responsibility falls on the National Commission for Reconciliation and Rehabilitation. 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:13.800 That commission has multiple tasks and has to reintegrate former combatants, 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:18.200 provide reparations to the victims, and narrate the conflict. 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:26.199 An ambitious commission with a painful but indispensable task to 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.760 narrate the truth and recount the mistakes and horrors of 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:33.319 the conflict, even if they are uncomfortable for the state. 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.120 Locyo Coures delalais established. 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:47.040 Reconstruction de las Amas conflict ormo so retos paramilitaris is 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:48.679 a los actors legalis. 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:53.360 The law establishes the reconstruction of the dynamics of the 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:59.000 armed conflict, especially focusing on the paramilitaries and illegal actors, 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:04.280 but it does not mention the Colombian state with equal force. 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:09.640 What the group does is appropriate those articles and expand 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:14.480 the group's mission and so the group begins to reconstruct 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:19.360 the dynamics of the armed conflict, including all of the actors, 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.800 not ignoring the role that the state has played in 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:27.280 the Colombian conflict, but on the contrary, including that role. 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:32.640 Because the Colombian state also committed atrocities in its mission 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:38.080 to eradicate illegal subversive groups. Let's remember the Viatina massacre 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:42.000 in which a group of twelve hooded policemen killed nine 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.760 people in Medigine, and there were many more incidents like that. 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.920 In order to include the state as a participant in 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:54.640 the armed conflict, another law was approved in twenty eleven, 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:57.400 the Victims and Land Restitution. 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:05.760 Law zum cambio fum yes last Victims and Victims las 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.520 victimari victims. 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:11.080 Entring in sally. 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:18.760 That is a fundamental change in perspective. It allows the victims, 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:23.040 the victims of the state, the victims of the paramilitaries, 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.920 the victims of the gerias, to enter into that law 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:31.199 and be recognized by it. And also the state enters 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.920 not only as a victim of the conflict, but also 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.040 as a participating actor in the armed conflict. 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:44.040 Because this participation of the state is particularly difficult to define. 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:47.280 Parte location conflict is. 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:54.840 Part of what an armed conflict does is a raise complexity, 0:12:55.520 --> 0:13:01.040 eraise the complexity of actors, alliances, and dynamics, and establish 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.600 a view of good and evil, a very binary view 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.719 where for some the state is a bad guy and 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:13.720 pure citizens are the good ones. For others, the geriga 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:17.000 is the bad one and the state is the good one. 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:25.400 This binary perspective, explained by Mariaima Wills, is also reflected 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:29.200 in how the Truth Commission was received. Some defended as 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.880 a democratic process to achieve peace, but some reject it. 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:36.800 It is a matter that generates deep feelings in a 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:41.160 divided and wounded society due to such a bloody conflict. 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.760 And just as some consider the state as good or 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.680 bad in black and white terms, talking about the state 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.559 as a homogeneous force where everyone thinks the same is 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:57.720 also risky. Like everywhere else you can find everything. 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:01.840 Businesses are you democratic? 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:09.440 Al pic issues institutionists peroyotra sector is suprememento retarius verticalis. 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:12.840 There is a sector that recognizes the need to democratize 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:19.160 the country and its institutions. Still, there are other supremely 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:25.800 authoritarian vertical sectors that basically defend a very authoritarian. 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:25.760 View of order. 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:30.880 Yes, so I believe that understanding the role of the 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:35.800 security forces in the armed conflict requires those nuances. 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.800 An example of this is the peace agreement with the 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:45.120 Revolutionary Armed Forces of Columbia People's Army or PARK EPPE, 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.840 one of the most feared and bloodthirsty guerrilla groups in 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:53.840 the armed conflict. After four years of negotiations in Havana, Cuba, 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:58.040 the Colombian government and PARK signed an agreement for the 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:02.160 demobilization of this guerilla group with a series of conditions. 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:06.680 The fact is now a political party, a decision that 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:14.840 continues to polarize Columbian society. According to Mariaema, the Truth 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.600 Commission was created to continue the peace process. It's a 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.440 way of understanding the context in which the armed conflict 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:27.280 was possible and clarifying those episodes of violence that characterized it. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:37.320 La comisionescucho alas victim as busco logos de were. 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:43.440 The Commission listened to the victims from all regions. It 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:47.880 sought to make contact and also have truthful dialogues in 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:53.440 the regions. In some cases, it also brought perpetrators face 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:57.840 to face with victims and made them account for their actions. 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.800 It was not an easy time. Ask try to imagine it, 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.360 gathering thousands of people from all corners of the country 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:10.120 to talk about what traumatized them for life. It is 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:14.480 a process that obviously evokes strong emotions, and while some 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:24.000 approve it, there are those who reject it. As difficult 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:29.080 as this process was in Colombia, the reconciliation initiative rounds 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:33.760 were achieved and the Truth Commission published their final report. 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.440 In the eleven volumes that make it up, chilling figures 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:47.040 were published. For example, four hundred and fifty thousand, six 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.880 hundred and sixty four people lost their lives, sixteen thousand, 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.440 two hundred and thirty eight cases of forced recruitment of 0:16:55.600 --> 0:17:00.320 children and teenagers were registered. There are four thousand, eight 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:04.520 hundred and eighty four civilian victims affected by land mines, 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.600 and one thousand, two hundred and ninety four were victims 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:16.240 of sexual violence, among others. However, the Truth Commission was 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:20.639 also rejected by more conservative sectors in Colombia, such as 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:25.400 former President Albaro Rive who said the Truth Commission has 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:31.720 a license to lie. For Mariaima Wills, the presentation of 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:34.880 this report is essential because. 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.760 Jan Capsula Alsufrimiento and Colombia. 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:48.160 It brings to the forefront and encapsulates the suffering experience 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.080 in Colombia for so many years through the voices of 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:57.280 the victims, but it also highlights the efforts being made 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:01.800 to overcome the armed conflict. It's can link between suffering 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:06.000 and hope. It's like a bridge to say, look, this 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:10.200 suffering has not been in vain because now we recognize 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:14.639 what we have experienced, and that recognition allows us to 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:19.600 think about the future differently and think about what should 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.520 not be repeated in this country, to break free from 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:25.679 the cycles of violence. 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:31.719 Cycles of violence that unfortunately are still active and ongoing. 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.879 Because the armed conflict has not completely ended in Colombia. 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:41.119 There are still active guerrilla groups like the Alna, paramilitary 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:46.520 groups are still present, and obviously drug trafficking still exists. 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:57.800 These cycles of violence have involved different actors, as in 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.960 the case of Captain Krral's murder, there was a combination 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:07.240 of factors that made this tragic out come possible. Let's remember, 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:14.680 according to Beto, a police officer named LUs Maria Roolella 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:19.000 Maso deceived Captain Corral into going out with her on 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:23.119 the night of April twenty one, nineteen ninety four, and 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.840 in collision with other men who assaulted him. They shot 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:31.399 him three times, ending his life. Days after the murder, 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:35.919 the police washed the car in which they intercepted Captain Corral, 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:42.040 thus erasing substantial evidence. LUs Maria Roleva, the mysterious woman, 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:46.040 attended Captain Corral's funeral, but quickly disappeared. 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:48.159 Quando la fria or douglas en. 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:53.440 Resafree When I went to approach her, the lady left, 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:54.920 she disappeared. 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.240 Took callicari as a cero or qualata intention? And what 0:19:58.400 --> 0:19:59.400 did you want to ask? 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:06.880 Or what were you trying to domke? No person? 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.480 In other words, I think the first thought one hans 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:13.920 when people die is to ask how, why, what happened? 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.520 That was what I wanted to ask her, But it 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:19.280 didn't happen. I did not have the chance. 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:24.160 The authorities confirmed to the Coral family that she had died, 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:28.960 but Beto Corral discovered years later that she was still alive. 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.520 He found her on social media and tried to get 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:34.680 in touch with her, but she blocked him. 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:46.120 Sim that's grimy marimbres Berta Corra, Yes, I made that mistake. 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:48.719 I sent a message to her and I said, Hi, 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:51.480 lose Mari, my name is Umberto Corral. I am the 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.240 son of the police Major Umberto Corral. I want to 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.439 talk to you, and I never got a response. Then 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:00.119 I found her on Instagram. She ended up blocking me 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:01.399 on all social media. 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:07.240 Upon receiving the judicial file of the case, Beto learned 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.119 that she had fired a fourth shot that none of 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:15.600 the witnesses heard. She tested positive for gunshot residue, confirming 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.920 that she had fired a weapon. This led Beto to 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:23.119 conclude that she had participated in his father's murder. The 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:28.399 file indicated inconsistencies in LUs Marii's testimony, but she was 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:32.680 not called again to testify, and that lead was never pursued. 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:40.399 Lasigeno avident lets Parolian yes, alien stoiment We're looking for it. 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:44.800 Evidently that woman did fire at someone, and I'm certain 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:49.680 that someone was my dad. I've determined that missus LUs 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.040 Marie bole Maso, a member of the police, with the 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:54.399 help of those men, murdered my father. 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:01.560 According to Beto's own investigations, before or being murdered, Captain 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:05.160 Korl planned to expose his superior in the search block 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:10.399 Colonel Ugaguilar for stealing hidden statues of money or drugs 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.320 belonging to the drug lord Pablo Scovard. 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:21.600 When Sara contesta Sola la la Henria colam. 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:26.040 Well, that answer speaks for itself. The relationship that he 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:28.359 would have with my father's death dates back to a 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:31.159 statement made by a police officer in which he claims 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:35.080 that Major Uguaguilar ordered my father's murder because of the 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:38.240 complaints he wanted to make about the calettas that Aguilar 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.920 seized and did not properly report to the National Police. 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:51.320 Over time, Ugaguilar faced justice for his involvement in paramilitary activities, 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:55.320 but he completed his sentence in twenty twenty two and 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:59.480 is now free in Colombia. On the other hand, according 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:03.800 to beto inquiries, Los Maria roolela Maso is also free 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:08.639 and living in the United States. Despite the evidence that 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:13.000 Beto has publicly presented, the case crossed the statute of 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:19.800 limitations in twenty fourteen and remains unsolved and closed. Beto 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:24.320 has dared to speak publicly to make brave accusations, and 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:28.040 for this he received threats that forced him to leave 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:31.199 his country and to seek asylum in the United States. 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:41.119 Beto was not part of the Truth Commission's tables, but 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:45.400 ten thousand other people came forward to tell everything. 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:55.640 Is only historicasa historica case more impression. 0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:03.720 Fatalis So the Commission does is if you will give 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:08.359 an extra push to a historical wave. This historical force 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:13.000 is very impressive because the war has been devastating and 0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:20.119 fears in this country. But amidst that ferocity, the citizenry 0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:25.720 has organized itself. Well, a part of the citizenry has 0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:30.600 organized itself and a part of the institutional framework and 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:36.840 pro democracy political sectors have allied themselves with this great 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:41.560 force so that things don't remain in total impunity. I 0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:45.920 know we have problems, but I also acknowledge those. 0:24:45.840 --> 0:24:52.280 Struggles individual and collective struggles to progress and build bridges 0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:58.639 that lead to peace in Columbia. We'll be back with 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:16.520 more after a break. As mentioned in the previous segment, 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:21.080 the Truth Commission published its final report almost a year ago. 0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:27.320 In June twenty twenty two. Catalina Sanrancisco bar the lawyer 0:25:27.480 --> 0:25:31.280 and scholar who explained the metaphor of the black boxes 0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:35.120 through which the Colombian state keeps secrets that could get 0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:37.760 them into trouble explains. 0:25:37.520 --> 0:25:41.560 And vintioch unla commission blesto allow the entry was informed 0:25:41.640 --> 0:25:45.800 in a e who stament and arcotraffic continuing capitulo important 0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:46.880 ns informed. 0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:51.359 On June twenty eight, the Truth Commission delivered its final report, 0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:56.560 and precisely drug trafficking has an important chapter in that report. 0:25:57.080 --> 0:26:01.000 And let's say that part of the recommendations first gives 0:26:01.080 --> 0:26:04.720 us a narrative about the relationship that drug trafficking had 0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:09.640 with armed conflict, how it permits and infiltrates all social, 0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:14.919 economic and political spheres of Columbia, but also a series 0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:20.439 of recommendations. And within those recommendations, it will be very 0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:26.920 difficult because it acknowledges that annoledging mistakes is costly, especially 0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:31.119 when it entails human rights violations and the infringement of 0:26:31.320 --> 0:26:33.879 people's dignity, that is. 0:26:33.960 --> 0:26:37.520 To say, when the state itself is involved in human 0:26:37.680 --> 0:26:42.359 rights violations. When state actors like those whom Beto points 0:26:42.440 --> 0:26:46.840 out as the ones responsible for his father's murder remain free, 0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:52.640 they remain free taking advantage of the institutional black boxes 0:26:52.920 --> 0:26:55.440 that continue to cover up their secrets. 0:26:55.800 --> 0:27:01.160 Okamos and esperdios and inaustar mucho poporquela. 0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:03.200 Construction a memory is voluntario is pontani. 0:27:03.960 --> 0:27:06.840 Here we have some missing links in that chain, and 0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:11.080 it will take us a long time. Why because a 0:27:11.160 --> 0:27:16.119 construction of memory is voluntary and spontaneous, and we have 0:27:16.280 --> 0:27:19.520 to depend on the will of many people and above 0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:21.360 all institutions. 0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:26.600 This is precisely why the Truth Commission's report is important, 0:27:27.000 --> 0:27:31.399 because it helps advance processes of justice, of preventing certain 0:27:31.520 --> 0:27:37.040 cases from remaining in impunity, trusting that victims and perpetrators 0:27:37.320 --> 0:27:38.639 speak about what they know. 0:27:39.280 --> 0:27:40.400 Yea, in Columbia. 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:45.960 Construct vantozes as informous importante at Penalo Samos and. 0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:50.800 In Colombia it may be late, but memory is being built. 0:27:51.440 --> 0:27:54.920 So the report is important. We are just beginning to 0:27:55.080 --> 0:28:00.320 understand it. The idea is for processes of socialization and 0:28:00.560 --> 0:28:05.520 education so that we understand what it is about, especially 0:28:05.640 --> 0:28:08.879 because some people still don't even know who the commission 0:28:09.160 --> 0:28:12.480 was and what it did. To come and talk about 0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:19.720 the report now, to. 0:28:19.840 --> 0:28:23.920 Prevent people who have information of interest to the victims 0:28:24.080 --> 0:28:27.679 from staying silent because some do not see the present 0:28:27.960 --> 0:28:32.159 in such an optimistic way, like Betro and Jennifer Coral with. 0:28:37.119 --> 0:28:39.680 K is. 0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:46.000 Well, I believe that it's getting worse every time. I mean, 0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:48.600 I feel that people are being silenced more and more. 0:28:49.120 --> 0:28:53.200 There's more silence every time, and about these times, I 0:28:53.280 --> 0:28:55.520 feel like we're still the same, We still have the 0:28:55.560 --> 0:28:58.600 same violence. It's still the same, and nothing has advanced, 0:28:59.160 --> 0:29:01.160 and I don't see any thing happening for us to 0:29:01.240 --> 0:29:01.840 move forward. 0:29:04.320 --> 0:29:07.320 Jennifer is not the only one in the family who 0:29:07.440 --> 0:29:11.400 does not see with optimism that drive for change in 0:29:11.520 --> 0:29:15.480 the context of the peace processes that currently takes place 0:29:15.600 --> 0:29:16.800 in Colombia. 0:29:16.680 --> 0:29:23.160 Look Sclaros Scala, polysias Pa. 0:29:23.640 --> 0:29:25.760 What is clear is that my father's death and the 0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:30.400 death of all those police officers has served absolutely no purpose, 0:29:31.400 --> 0:29:33.800 and the only way to stop this bloodshed is by 0:29:33.920 --> 0:29:37.640 changing that. Beyond drugs, which I detest, but I detest 0:29:37.680 --> 0:29:40.520 even more the stupidity of the world trying to fight 0:29:40.600 --> 0:29:44.160 it with blood and fire, and above all, those deaths 0:29:44.600 --> 0:29:48.720 are only in our countries, so it was odd for nothing. 0:29:49.720 --> 0:29:52.160 My father's death was also in vain. 0:30:02.920 --> 0:30:08.200 In cases of human rights abuses, victims can receive reparations, 0:30:09.120 --> 0:30:13.720 but despite legislative reforms that acknowledge the participation of the 0:30:13.800 --> 0:30:18.080 Colombian state in the armed conflict and also acknowledged that 0:30:18.320 --> 0:30:21.960 they were involved in human rights abuses. Betu and his 0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:28.040 family have not received any form of reparation, neither symbolic 0:30:28.440 --> 0:30:33.680 nor economic. The state also abandoned them in the pursuit 0:30:33.760 --> 0:30:38.200 of justice and did nothing to clarify and punish Captain 0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:44.720 Korral's murder. However, Betho continues to fight, perhaps from exile, 0:30:45.160 --> 0:30:48.840 but he is increasingly active on social media and other 0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:53.000 platforms to prevent impunity in his father's case and to 0:30:53.120 --> 0:30:59.160 seek justice in many other cases in Colombia. In the 0:30:59.320 --> 0:31:04.000 next and final episode of Transportista Who Murdered Captain Corral, 0:31:04.600 --> 0:31:08.600 you will hear a different episode a conversation to learn 0:31:08.720 --> 0:31:19.720 more about Beto Corral. Transportista Who Murdered Captain Corral is 0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:24.360 a production of Exiled Content Studio and Detective in partnership 0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:28.160 with Ihartz Michael Tura podcast Network, and is hosted by 0:31:28.320 --> 0:31:33.560 me Alvaro Stes. Production by Diego Livares and Alvaro Sespenes 0:31:33.880 --> 0:31:37.960 with the help of Sabine Jansen, Anna Isabel, Octavio, Veronic 0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:43.640 Carnandez Reynolds Gutierrez and Stella Emmet. Written by Alvardo Sespenis 0:31:44.600 --> 0:31:49.280 edited by Carmen Ratterol, fact checking by the sire Jeppes. 0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:54.640 Adaptation to English by Magalis Transki. Thanks to the voice 0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:59.480 actors who contributed in this episode. Beto corral Is, Razio Manzija, 0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:05.920 Jennifer carral Is, Andrea Sebaios, Mariaeima wills Is, Paulina Garcia Fontees, 0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:11.959