1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Paul. 7 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: Mission controlled decands. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, 8 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you 9 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: to know. Fellow conspiracy realist, this is a two part episode. 10 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: It's one that we and many people have thought about 11 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: or quite a long time. It's a story that for 12 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: many people begins almost two decades ago, but as will 13 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: come to find, it's a much much older story. We 14 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: were recently inspired to dig into this thanks to a 15 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: message from fellow conspiracy realist Lisa So thank you so much. 16 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: For more than a century, you see, the Caribbean nation 17 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: of Cuba or Cuba, has been home to one of 18 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: the region's most controversial US bases and currently prisons. It's 19 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: generally called Guantanamo Bay. So in part one of this series, 20 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: we're going to ask how did we get here? We 21 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: meaning both the US and we meaning human beings in general. 22 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: How did the human species get into this situation? Here 23 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: are the facts. First off, if you look at the news, 24 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: if you put Guantanamo into your search engine of choice, 25 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: you go to a library, what you're going to find, 26 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: mostly nowadays is going to be about get MO the 27 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: Guantanamo Bay detention camp. But foreign powers have salivated over 28 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: the region known as Guantanamo Bay since blon, since way 29 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: before the United States was even a thing. And it 30 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: makes sense when you look at the geography, right, if 31 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: you pull up a map of Cuba, you can look 32 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: at this bay and you can automatically know why it 33 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: is such a prized possession. Yeah, it's right down there 34 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: at the tip basically the southeastern tip of Cuba. If 35 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: you're if you're looking at it and from a strategy 36 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: perspective as well as from some other perspectives we're going 37 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: to talk about today, that thing is prime prime real estate. Yeah. 38 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: All the way back when Cristo bald Cologne often called 39 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: Columbus here in the US, all the way back on 40 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: his second trip to what is now known as the 41 00:02:54,520 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: America's in April, Europeans saw the saw opportunity in this 42 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: part of the island. He landed there and um, you know, 43 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: he acted the way Christopher Columbus acts historically. But this 44 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: set off a craze for the European colonial powers. Later, 45 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: England wants it, France wants It's Spain. Of course, once 46 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: that everybody is trying to play king of the Hill 47 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: or in this case, king of the Bay. Is there 48 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: really cool punk band called Guantanamo Bay Watch? So I 49 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: just thought that was a really clever name for a 50 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: punk band. Um, But it's true. It's totally easy to 51 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: see why so many people wanted it strategically because it's 52 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: the largest harbor on the southern port of the island 53 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: of Cuba Um. It's surrounded by hills that largely cut 54 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: it off from the interior on The name comes from Tynos, 55 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: the original residence of Cuba UH and this group UM, 56 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: which also lived in Puerto Rico, the Bahamas, and Jamaica. 57 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: It was largely wiped out by here pene forces like 58 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: Crystal Ball or Christopher Um due in part two, brutal 59 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: actions of the colonists that were essentially colonizing their land 60 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: and in part two disease that these very colonists carried 61 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: with little attention paid to the indigenous folks that they 62 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: were invading and infecting. Um and Columbus actually called it 63 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: Puerto Grande when his ship landed there in fourteen ninety 64 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: four on one of his subsequent visits. And then fast 65 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: forward seventeen forty one, the British briefly capture Guantanamo Bay 66 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: during something called the War of Jenkins Ear And there's 67 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: a ridiculous history episode that touches on this. If you 68 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: want to learn more about it, well, Jenkins the title 69 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: of the war, the name of the war in English 70 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: should let you know how sadly hilarious people's reasons for 71 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: going to war can become or their causes belly and petty. 72 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: And they renamed during their brief stint here, they renamed 73 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: it Cumberland Bay. That didn't last. If you look at 74 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: the map now and you look at the geopolitics of 75 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: the current day, you have to ask yourself, Hey, how 76 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: did Guantanamo Bay become part of the US while still 77 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,239 Speaker 1: not being a part of the US depended like whenever 78 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: it's convenient, because that is seriously literally the case. Let's go, 79 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: let's let's go just a little further in time. The 80 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:40,239 Speaker 1: Spanish American War in eighteen. Out Spanish American War police 81 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: are coming for you. I can hear them. Can you 82 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: hear them? Yep? There they go. This is the reason 83 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: you don't hear this war mentioned so often. Those guys 84 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: are on the ball. You never expect the Spanish American 85 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: inquisition except when they, you know, last their sirens while 86 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: they're heading towards you. So during the Spanish American War 87 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: in eight and it's one of those many, many, many 88 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: wars that people often forget about in the US. UH, 89 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: here's what happened. US forces were working with allies in 90 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: Cuba to take possession of Guantanamo Bay and use it 91 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: as a base from which they could battle Spanish forces 92 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: controlling the island. This is also, by the way, the 93 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: first deployment of a young Smedley Butler would just become 94 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: a marine and traveled from Pennsylvania to UH to fight 95 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: in this conflict. This is an experience that would profoundly 96 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: affect him later in life. If you don't know who 97 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: we're talking about, please please please go online and check 98 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: out a short pamphlets barely even a book called War 99 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: is a Racket, and you'll you'll learn the story in 100 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: full as a matter of fact, slight spoilers, let's call 101 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: it foreshadowing. You'll have an oppert to a need to 102 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: learn much more about Smedley Butler pretty soon. So just 103 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: like take that, keep it secret, keep it safe. We'll 104 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: be back on that point. But anyhow, Yes, that's when 105 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: the US force has become involved. And after the Spanish 106 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: American War, the US coercis the new nation of Cuba 107 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: into a series of agreements. At first they were allowed 108 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:33,239 Speaker 1: to create up to four naval bases on the island. 109 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: They got they were kind of getting to two. They 110 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: traded one of those for more land in the one 111 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: base they still retained today, which is now known as 112 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: Quantatamo bay Uh. This happened in so the US leases 113 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: forty five square miles of the area, and this counts 114 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: land and water, by the way, and they get it 115 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: from this new got from it the new government of Cuba. 116 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: At the time. It's important to note nobody was talking 117 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: about building one of history's most notorious prisons. Instead, this 118 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: was just seen, you know, kind of the way the 119 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: earlier European power saw it. It's a stopping point, right, 120 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: you can resupply it's strategically advantageous to keep ships there, 121 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: and the U S. Navy is growing at this time, 122 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: so this is quite a well, coup would be a 123 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: bad choice of words in this situation. But this, this 124 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: is a big get for Uncle Sam, right, this, this 125 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: helps them extend their force projection and extend their power 126 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: in the region. And then that that last fork, it's 127 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: just like a hair more than three decades and this 128 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: was three things called the Platt Agreement, and we can 129 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about that in you know, 130 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: later in this series. By repealed and there's a new 131 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: agreement made. The countries don't just renew the lease, they 132 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: make it permanent. And the only way right now, legally 133 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: from the U S perspective, at least, the only way 134 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: this agreement can end is if one of two things happens. 135 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: One the US unilaterally decides to leave the bay, or 136 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: two both countries agree that the U S should leave. Currently, 137 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: the situation is that the government of Cuba very much 138 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 1: thinks the U S should leave and the US does 139 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: not agree, and that's it. They'll be there forever from 140 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: now on until they're chased out. Maybe yeah, Well, because 141 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: that agreement got repealed, replaced. From the perspective of the 142 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: Cuban government, especially post Communist revolution, the US forces in 143 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: Guantanamo are an illegal occupation. They're an illegal occupying force. 144 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: And that's something that you know you you won't here 145 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: reported too often in the West. The way other countries 146 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: perceive Guantanamo Bay today, this naval base is often called 147 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: get MO. It's not just a prison. It is a 148 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: naval base, but one of the world's most notorious prisons, 149 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: which will get to Impart two, is on the is 150 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: in this area. And it should be no surprise, fellow 151 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: conspiracy realist that get MO Guantanamo Obey remain a hotbed 152 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: of conspiracy and have for many, many years. We'll tell 153 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: you more after a word from our sponsor. Here's where 154 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. Well, first of all, back in the 155 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: terms of the lease itself were actually outlined in something 156 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: called the Platt Agreement UM and it's set those terms 157 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: for what would be largely considered an unequal relationship between 158 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: the United States and Cuba. Clearly with the advantage being 159 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: given to the United States. Both countries would get free 160 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: access through the bay, and while the US controls day 161 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: to day operations and ultimately in theory does recognize Cubans sovereignty. 162 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: So there's certainly some um symbolic recognizing of Cuba's sovereignty there. 163 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: So why was the agreement so controversial? Well, the Platt 164 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: Agreement did pretty significantly challenge cuba sovereignty while tacitly acknowledging 165 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: it as well by mandating that they actually include these 166 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: conditions for withdrawal of troops um that the US would 167 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: also adhere to into their very constitution. Ben the this 168 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: is your wheelhouse, my friend, with their international fairs background, 169 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: can you explain what a strong arm move this would 170 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: have been seen as or or was it seen that way? Yeah? Yeah, 171 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: it was because it was so the idea was that 172 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: we will not only have the disagreement, right, you want 173 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: us out, okay, fine, we'll leave leave if you do 174 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: these things. And not only do you have to do 175 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: these things, but to make sure that we're super locked 176 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: in on this, you have to take what you have 177 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: to take our caveats, and you have to put them 178 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: in your constitution. So like imagine, for example, if after 179 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: this is not a perfect comparison, but imagine for example, 180 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: after the UM after the Revolutionary War, right, France said, Okay, 181 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna keep We're gonna keep New York Harper. Okay, 182 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna pay you a little for it, but we're 183 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: gonna keep it. And we want you to put the 184 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: following stuff in your constitution. Yeah, it's kind of you know, 185 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: it's our law, we wrote it, but you guys should 186 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: put it in. And what's more, you should be grateful. 187 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: That's that's kind of what happened here. And like so 188 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: many of these these sorts of coercive moves, the stated 189 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 1: goal is one of defense and protection, like hey, help 190 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: us help you. That's that's the way it's phrase. But 191 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: there's already something conspiratorial about this because the person who 192 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: signed off for this on the Cuban side, this guy 193 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: named Thomas Estra Palma, and he was he would later 194 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: go on to be the first president of Cuba, but 195 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: he himself was an American citizen. So there's kind of 196 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: an inside man argument here as well. You can see 197 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: why this didn't sit well with a lot of people. 198 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: But then adding a little bit of insult to injury here, 199 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: truth be told, Uncle Sam got the land for a song. 200 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: Up until that agreement, the government of the US would 201 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: would control this part of the island, and in return 202 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: they would pay two thousand gold coins per year for 203 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: their lease. Nineteen thirty four, that changes a little, and 204 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: they say, okay, we're gonna match. We'll still give you 205 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: the equivalent, but we'll give it to you in dollars 206 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: because we're super into we're super into paper currency now 207 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 1: post think ten thirteen. You know what I'm talking about. 208 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: And so we're not gonna we're not gonna give you 209 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: actual gold. But hey, hold these coupons, you guys, you 210 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: know I owe you. I love the concept of somebody 211 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: in Fort Knox is just pulling out gold bullion to 212 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: print gold coins, specifically to pay Cuba for their lease. 213 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: And this relationship these odd bedfellows remained relatively stable and 214 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: didn't change significantly until another pivotal moment in Cuban history, 215 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: which was the Revolution in the nineteen fifties, the rise 216 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: of Fidel Castro and the US and Cuban relations, surprise surprise, 217 00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: steadily declined as the Castro government be came closer and 218 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: closer to the Soviet Union right, and as the US 219 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: attempted to kill him in a number of ingenious ways. 220 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: In a number of infamously stupid ways. You know, exploding cigars. 221 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: Was that a thing that was oh yeah, oh yeah, 222 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: you know what. Let's take a second. Let's let's stroll 223 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: down memory way. Let's do Castro assassination attempts. Let's do 224 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: some of the greatest hits. Yes, no, you are correct. 225 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: If we're doing family feud, you just got one of 226 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: those little slots that just dinged dinged forward, right, so 227 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: you got some points, because yes, it exploding cigar was 228 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: one of the famous ones. There was the let's see, 229 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: they also wanted to poison his diving suit with fungus, 230 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: and the the idea was that it would give him 231 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: really bad skin and then and then no one will 232 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: will trust him anymore, because you can't trust a leader 233 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: with bad skin. There's actually a documentary called six thirty 234 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: eight Ways to Kill Castro that was produced by British 235 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: television channel four UM in the UK in two thousands six. 236 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: I have not seen it, but it does outline I 237 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: don't know, I hopefully I guess the number is accurate 238 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: all these different ways that the CIA tried to kill Castro. Yeah, 239 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: many of which were um kind of proposed ways. Uh, 240 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:27,239 Speaker 1: but several were actual attempts. One of my other favorites, 241 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: just to give you a perspective here, folks, is in 242 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty when the CIA was super into psychedelics, they said, 243 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: you know what we should do. We should destroy the 244 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: guy's public, uh, public reputation if we can't kill him. 245 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: So let's go to his broadcasting studio and let's spray 246 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: the whole thing. Let's fumigate it with a chemical that'll 247 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: make it look like he's tripping. He'll have hallucinations as 248 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: though he were on acid. That's right. I don't think 249 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: it panned out, but that was mentioned in uh the 250 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: I heard original UM podcast series Operation Midnight Climax. The 251 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: idea was to make him look like he had dementia 252 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: or something or like that he was tripping over him 253 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: not only tripping, you know, like on LSD, but like 254 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: tripping over his sentences, and would make him appear foolish, 255 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: as though he were like having some kind of like 256 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: nervous breakdown. Yeah. Uh, and just related all of this, 257 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: I would highly recommend the Guardian article. The CIA has 258 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: a long history of helping to kill leaders around the world. 259 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: In this case, they didn't. They didn't get it right. 260 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: But that article is about the times that it worked. Yes, yes, 261 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: this is uh, this is good reading too. I mean 262 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: it's not uh, it's not gonna make chuckle because there 263 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: are some really horrific things that you can lay at 264 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: the foot of the CIA. And that's just the stuff 265 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: that people know now right. A lot of their lit 266 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: the Shenanigans lost to history anyhow, as their relationship with 267 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: the U. S declines and Cuba becomes closer and closer 268 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: with the U S s R. Uncle Sam cuts diplomatic 269 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: ties with Cuba nineteen sixty one, and just a few 270 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: years later, in nineteen sixty four, Castro directs his government 271 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: to cut off all the supply avenues and all the 272 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: water lines to Guantanamo. And again, like as we said, 273 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: this is encircled partially by some pretty steep terrain. So 274 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: the naval station there says, Okay, we've gotta we've got 275 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: to do our own thing. We're not leaving, so we're 276 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: just gonna We're gonna get our own power and water sources. 277 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: This is, geopolitically speaking, a very tense roommate situation. That's 278 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: that's one way to put it. Fast forward ninety four Uh, 279 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: the yearly lease gets what they're called reassessed, and then 280 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: they say, okay, well let's let's update this. You know 281 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: what I mean. These are different times now, So how 282 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: about this once a year for occupying again forty five 283 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 1: square miles of your country, we'll give you you well 284 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: over four thousand dollars a year. How does that sound? Dang, 285 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: that's the cheapest private island location ever, even though it's 286 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,360 Speaker 1: not a full island, it's just a bay. It's amazing, right, 287 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: Like forty five square miles ocean front property. By the way, 288 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: how much should that be? Seriously, like four thousand a year? 289 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: I mean does it still forty five square miles? That's 290 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: what we said before? Right, I think it's still the 291 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: same size, although I don't know if it's grown. Okay, Yeah, 292 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: And according to this is interesting too. So according to 293 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: most sources, the government of Cuba has refused to cash 294 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: these checks for a long long time in protests of 295 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 1: this agreement that again they maintain is coersive and they 296 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: maintain the US is illegally occupying their territory. I wonder 297 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: if they've got them like framed in protests, you know, 298 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: like some sort of artifact that there. Yes, they see. See, 299 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: we're holding our ground. We will not bow to any 300 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: foreign interlopers. Oh, it's a dis even deeper than that, 301 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: you guys. The truth of the matter is that after 302 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: the Cuban Revolution, which again nineteen ninety nine, uh, when 303 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: the U. S President at the time, Eisenhower refused to 304 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: return the land or leave it. Uh, the Cuban government 305 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: has only cashed one of those checks. And Castro was 306 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: super pissed about that for the rest of his life. 307 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: He said it was a mistake in the early days 308 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: of the government. And the legend is that he did 309 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: keep all those physical checks again, and he kept them uncashed, 310 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: and he just unceremoniously stuffed them in a desk drawer 311 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: for the rest of his life, and occasionally we mentioned 312 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: it in speeches with a very screw you guys attitude. 313 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: You know, Oh, nobody tries to cash him anytime soon, 314 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: because it'll just come back in sufficient funds. Oh, that 315 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: is a I was not expecting. That was good. That 316 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: was a park four level bird, all right. It's true though. 317 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: I mean from his perspective, you could see how um 318 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: fundamentally offensive the presence of that base would be regardless 319 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: of the stated intent behind it. So this gets us 320 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: up to the revolution in Cuba, right, and we've we've 321 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: established that Guantanamo Bay was around far before the US 322 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: and when the US was occupying the area, where when 323 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: the US had territory there, which it still does today, 324 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: that situation did not change despite the dangers of the 325 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: Cold War. Let's talk a little bit more about this 326 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: afterward from our sponsors. M hmm, I hope you liked that. 327 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: American capitalism all right, and it's it's weird because it 328 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: seems American capitalism, regardless of your views on the on 329 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: the concept of the ideology, which it very much is, 330 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: it seems that it is a constant right, And you 331 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: could say the same about Guantanamo, about the throughout the revolution, 332 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: the rise of Fidel Castro up to it, including his demise, 333 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: throughout the Cold War, throughout the War on Terror, and 334 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: now to the present day as we record this series, 335 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: one thing remained constant on the island the US presents 336 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: at Guantanamo Bay, and most again, most of the twenty 337 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: years of reporting on the area has centered on the 338 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: detention camp. But it's important to notice this is this 339 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: is something a lot of the reporting can miss at times. 340 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: It's important to notice this. Before Guantanamo Bay hit the 341 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: news as a detention camp created in response to the 342 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: War on Terror, it was home to other controversial acts. 343 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,719 Speaker 1: That's right. In the nineties nineties, the US used Guantanamo 344 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: Bay as a place to dump three hundred HIV positive refugees. 345 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: Um it was essentially being used and described as a 346 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: prison camp, and also the US that is and turned 347 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: over thirty thousand Haitian refugees there on the base. Eventually 348 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: they let ten thousand seven of them into the US. 349 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: But um they also interered Cubans that were seeking asylum there. Yep, 350 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: they did. And this became one of those locations that 351 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: you may have heard of in the past and other 352 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: parts of the world where the question becomes is this 353 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: refugee camp or is this an open air prison? Right? 354 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: Are we are we helping these people or are we 355 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: simply holding them? This was the first kind of large 356 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: scale use of the area as a prison or a 357 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 1: center of incarceration. And it happened, like you said, in 358 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: the early directly following the overthrow of Haiti's first democratically 359 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: elected president, which is a story all its own and 360 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: maybe when we cover in a future episode. So the 361 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: c I A at the same time the US government 362 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: is is putting these folks in these refugee camps. The 363 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: CIA is helping assisting death squads that are traveling around Haiti, 364 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: and they were they were killing again the supporters of 365 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: a democratically elected president, Jean bertrand arrest. The White House 366 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: said what the White House didn't say, Hey, we're doing 367 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: this while you know the CIA is killing people. They said, 368 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: we're doing We're going to be using Guantanamo as a 369 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: quote tent shelter for people who are fleeing violence in Haiti. 370 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: And if any of these refugees made trouble, we're thought 371 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: to be making trouble or were suspected of being troublesome 372 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: in the future, they were sent to a nearby site 373 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: still on the base called Camp x Ray. Today that 374 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: location is known as the Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp. It's 375 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 1: also just known as a glorified dog kennel. Yes, yep, 376 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: and that that comes from the reporting that initially showed 377 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: the world the chain links, the chain link comprising the 378 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: fencing right uh, and it does look like a kennel. 379 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: So when President Bush Senior, then President at the time, 380 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: when he decided to send a lot of these Haitian 381 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: exiles back into the chaotic fray of the country they'd 382 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: hope to escape. Something incredibly important happened. And it's something 383 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: that maybe maybe slipped by and some of the news cycles, 384 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,479 Speaker 1: and it's this. The U s. Supreme Court ruled that 385 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: these refugees, regardless of their behavior, regardless of why or 386 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: how they end dad up in this area, they were 387 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:08,239 Speaker 1: not entitled two rights that you would normally have in 388 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: a US system of justice, or as a person seeking 389 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: refugee status in the US or seeking asylum, because in 390 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: this case, Guantanamo doesn't count as US soil. Now it's Cuba. 391 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: If it's a problem, if it's a responsibility, it's it's 392 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 1: Cuba's problem. Now, they seem to say, so, it's essentially 393 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: it's this is foreshadowing, right, But I mean, it's essentially 394 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: an argument that can be made as to whether or 395 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: not US laws apply when you're there, and in terms 396 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: of what you can do to the people there and 397 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: the prisoners there, what you can do to anyone at 398 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: any time in anything. Yeah, it's it's a weird legal 399 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: black spot, great area whole, and it's why everything else happened. Yes, 400 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: well said, this rationale forms the basis of everything that 401 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 1: would come to pass in the future. This is a 402 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: have your cake and eat it to situation for Uncle 403 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: Sam to give it this way all right for a 404 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: little over four grand a year. If you're the US, 405 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: you control all aspects of day to day life and 406 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: military operations in this bay. It is your call, except 407 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: that is when this control would include responsibilities that you 408 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 1: would rather avoid. So all the sudden, like think of it. 409 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm killing it with terrible analogies here. But 410 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: think of it like let's say you've you've got a roommate, 411 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: or maybe you've got a kid, right and the kid says, 412 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: this is this is my room, except when it's time 413 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 1: to clean it, then it's you know, then it's just 414 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: another part of your house. What are you doing in there? Timmy? 415 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 1: How old is? Because that's nothing. Check the plat agreement. 416 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: I don't have to tell you anything. Get out of here. 417 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 1: He got us go agement. Should have never signed a 418 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: treaty with my child. And this this what what we've 419 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: done here is we've set the stage for the problems 420 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: and the controversies, the corruption, the conspiracies, the allegations of 421 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: torture that have been wrapped up in the story of 422 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: Guantanamo for the last two decades. So just for perspective here, 423 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: you know, we think that, like we are spending a 424 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: lot of time in this first part of the series 425 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: on the history, because that's that's a question and that's 426 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: a story that needs to be addressed more openly. The 427 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: question is how did we get here? I mean, before 428 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: diving into this, were you all aware about like the 429 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: history of Guantanamo and just how many countries were trying 430 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: to grab the throne. Absolutely not. I honestly took for 431 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: granted the idea that this whole um weird kind of 432 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: changing of hands and this whole like power grab that 433 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: the U S did with Cuba is literally what led 434 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: to all the atrocities that we're definitely going to get, 435 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: uh super into in the second part. I mean, I 436 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: just I completely missed that entirely. So no, this is 437 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: absolutely educational for me personally. Personally for me, both of 438 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: my wife's parents came from the island when the revolution 439 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: was going down, So yeah, I knew a little bit 440 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: about this after meeting her, you know, it was right 441 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: after September element and everything. So I learned a lot 442 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: about this place because it was a weird. It was 443 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: a weird thing when you hear that detainees from the 444 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: War on Terror are being kept in Cuba, weirdly enough, 445 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: and you know, for us in a in an early relationship, 446 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: it felt like a very coincidental thing, like, Wow, that's 447 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: weird that that would just happen. But do you realize 448 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: that again, We're gonna save a lot of this for 449 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: the next episode because that's when we're getting into the 450 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: War on Terror itself and how that altered things for 451 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: the state here. But it is very weird to think 452 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: about Cuba, of all places on the earth, as the 453 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: place where we would end up sending detainees, uh as 454 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: a sovereign nation that has a ton of landmasks just 455 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: north of where we're keeping them. Yeah. And then also 456 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: this is there's another aspect here of the history. It 457 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: might have stood out to some some of our fellow 458 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: listeners that a lease usually has an end date. This 459 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: one does not have an end date. It's just renting forever. 460 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: And additionally, when we say it was a strong arm deal. 461 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: I should have mentioned this earlier. The US required Cuba 462 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: to amend their constitution to incorporate this agreement. This kind 463 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: of devil's bargain if they if the Cuban government did 464 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: not agree, then the U s would not have allowed 465 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: them full independence because after the Treaty of Paris with Spain, 466 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: it was kind of up to them, up to the 467 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: US government of the time. What happened to Cuba, Puerto Rico, 468 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: the Polivines, Guam. This was something that the Cuban government 469 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: was forced to do. And so if you are growing 470 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: up in the area, then you can understand why this 471 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: would seem tremendously like this would seem like a problem, right, 472 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: Like what if you what if you grew up and 473 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: you knew that in your country right or in your 474 00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: state there was this foreign occupying force. No one could 475 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,479 Speaker 1: do anything about it, and they're what they're paying Like 476 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: for what what is four thousand there? Just like four 477 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: thousand dollars divided by twelve, Like how much is the 478 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: monthly rent there? Yeah, I know, I totally see what 479 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: you're saying, Ben, But I think if you have someone 480 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: some power help you gain independence, then having that power 481 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: in some presence in some way in your country is 482 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: probably not you know, boxed at as as heavily. Sure. 483 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's a valid point. But let's 484 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: also consider that before the US came into the into 485 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:45,719 Speaker 1: the theater of this war, the like Cuban, the Cuban 486 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: people have been fighting for independence against the Spanish for decades. 487 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: So you could say, and then I'm sure there are 488 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: many critics of this policy who agree, you could say 489 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: that what happened is the US kind of came in 490 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: at the end, yeah, and said, look at us, we're 491 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: helping sort of like uh, if you're if you've ever 492 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: helped a friend move and somebody shows up right at 493 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: the end, right, and they carry one box, and then 494 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: you go, I am exhausted. Now we get some of 495 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: that pizza and beer. You know, I totally see that 496 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: point to Ben, because I think I think both might 497 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: be true a little bit, even if they helped out 498 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: a little bit, maybe forty five miles, you know, square 499 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: miles of land, isn't that crazy? But then pushing it 500 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: further and further from that nineteen o three date to 501 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: the nine date when they tried to get it in 502 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: the constitution, that's when you're like, whoa, what that's a 503 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: little come on, Well, you want to be independent, don't you. 504 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: You know what I mean, Hey, that's a that's a 505 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: nice idea for a country you have. It would be 506 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: cool if it worked out, yes, But also from the 507 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: Cuban perspective, strategically, if you've got the United States military 508 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: as an ally and it's just up there, and you've 509 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: got a bay down here where they can you know, 510 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 1: deploy from anybody that's gonna come and mess with, Cuba 511 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: isn't going to because the U. S. Navy is the 512 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: big player in town, in the world. And you know, 513 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: I can imagine how that's also that goes into the 514 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: calculus of all right, maybe we should go along with this. 515 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 1: I completely agree. And you've reminded me, Matt of a 516 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 1: quotation from a senator at the time in the US 517 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: that maybe we'll give us some more context into the 518 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: motivations for this quote unquote protected defensive move uh As 519 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: the as the US was ramping up to two intervening Cuba, 520 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: one senator pulled out all the stops to try to 521 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: get everybody on board with this intervention. His name is 522 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: Senator John Thurston. First he said it was his wife's 523 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: dying wish to quote, free Cuban it's people. And then 524 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 1: just for backup, he added this. He said, war with 525 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,479 Speaker 1: Spain would increase the business and the earnings of every 526 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: American railroad. It would increase the output of every American factory. 527 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: It would stimulate every branch of industry and domestic commerce. 528 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: It would greatly increase the demand for American labor. And 529 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: in the end, every certificate that represented a share of 530 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: an American business enterprise would be worth more money than 531 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 1: it is today. Not quite protecting people's you know, quality 532 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: of life, is it? It has an odd quote to me, man, 533 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: that is that's that's an American senator. That is that 534 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: is the Senator John Thurston. My wife's dying wish, no 535 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: kidding you guys, is to free the Cuban people from 536 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: Spanish occupation. Also, who likes money. Yeah, everything's gonna get better. Wow. 537 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: That's that's intense, okay, And it's it's strange to think 538 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: of it that way because people do argue for economic 539 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: benefits in war. They're just careful about who they're talking 540 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: to when they say it. You know, they read the room. 541 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: So that's why you'll hear a politician and maybe in 542 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: a public facing environment say something like we're protecting our 543 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: national interest but what are those national interests exactly? It's 544 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: a good question, Well what do you think those national 545 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: interests are? You can find us on the internet, right 546 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: let us know. Absolutely, we we would love to hear 547 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,479 Speaker 1: if you've got stories about the history of Cuba, about 548 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: the history of Guantanamo obey, anything that's related to what 549 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: we talked about today. You can find us on Twitter 550 00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: and Facebook where we are conspiracy Stuff. YouTube we are 551 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff. On Instagram we are Conspiracy Stuff Show. And 552 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: if you don't like social media, you can use your 553 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: mouth and your phone to contact us. And sorry one 554 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: st d w y t K leave us a message 555 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 1: three minutes at the time of the message that you 556 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: shall leave maximum you can go really sure, do it 557 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 1: like a like an aphorism, like a Ben franklinism or something, 558 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 1: or at a verbal tweet. Um, let us know what 559 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: to call you. 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