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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you,

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Speaker 2: as always so much for tuning in. That's our super producer,

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Speaker 2: mister Max Williams.

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Speaker 3: Max the Chesapeake Boy Williams Chesapeake.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I do want to drop something in here from

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Speaker 4: that's reference to our previous episode. Sure, it was brought

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Speaker 4: up the absurd name of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim,

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Speaker 4: which I one time saw and I've never forgotten. This

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Speaker 4: translates to the the Angels Angels of Anaheim.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a real ATM machine. Then number magic there

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Speaker 2: with the facts.

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Speaker 5: That seeking in the phone and PA's fallen knowledge.

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Speaker 3: It's just for you right now.

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Speaker 2: And that is none other than mister Noel Brown. They

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Speaker 2: help me, Ben Bulling. In this neck of the Global woods, folks,

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Speaker 2: we are having what we call a Badass Badass of

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Speaker 2: the Week week uh with big, big thanks to our

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Speaker 2: returning guest, none other than the co host of the

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Speaker 2: Actual Facts Badass of the Week podcast. Please please join

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Speaker 2: us in welcoming back doctor Pat Larish and Ben Thompson.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you guys so much for having us. We're

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Speaker 5: going to Yeah, yeah, we're gonna do. That's another is

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Speaker 5: another one. That's a repetition. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: A word for tea. Yeah, just.

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Speaker 6: Have like chai gelato. There you go, you know to chi,

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Speaker 6: you know chai chai.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there we go.

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Speaker 2: Folks. You could get the sense already that you are

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Speaker 2: now hanging with five big time nerds.

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Speaker 3: We were talking about threatening to do a D and

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Speaker 3: D campaign off Mikes.

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Speaker 5: I write professional write D D adventures professionally, so.

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Speaker 3: I did know that about you. Well, I'm excited to

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Speaker 3: h to come into your world of D and D

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Speaker 3: and dungeon mastery.

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Speaker 2: Folks. Folks, if you have not tuned into our previous

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Speaker 2: episode about a guy named George that Noel, Max and

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Speaker 2: I had no idea about, please hie THEE to thy

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Speaker 2: podcast platform of.

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Speaker 3: Choice or a Nunnery depending or if you wish right.

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Speaker 2: I think they have WiFi. So we are Ben and Pat.

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Speaker 2: We are so excited that you all are returning with us,

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Speaker 2: despite our cavalcade of three out of five puns. You

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Speaker 2: know in our previous episode, you are returning to us

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Speaker 2: with another story of a badass. This is something building

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Speaker 2: on our previous conversation. So for everybody wondering why we're

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Speaker 2: calling our super producer Max the Chesapeake Cape. We promised

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Speaker 2: we were going to pay it off. And so the

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Speaker 2: Chesapeake Boy also the Chesapeake Boy. He's a chesapeaker.

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Speaker 5: He's actually a chesapea cheesecake.

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Speaker 2: That there we go go. So it bid, Pat, what

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Speaker 2: is going on in York Town in the seventeen.

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Speaker 5: Hundreds, Yes, so let's talk. We were talking before about

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Speaker 5: George Rogers Clark and that's an interesting story. And you know,

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Speaker 5: we are at a time where we're celebrating America to

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Speaker 5: fifty right now, and so we've been doing, at least

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Speaker 5: on our show, we've been doing a lot of American

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Speaker 5: history characters, revolutionary war characters, and I think it's worth

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Speaker 5: mentioning that a lot of America doesn't happen without the

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Speaker 5: help of the French. As much as we like to

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Speaker 5: dunk on the French here, Yeah, that is, they played

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Speaker 5: a very important role in the American Revolution. We talked

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Speaker 5: about a slightly more passive role in the last episode.

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Speaker 5: This one is going to be a little bit more

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Speaker 5: of an active role with direct direct fire engagement. So

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Speaker 5: I guess in honor of America two fifty and bestial

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Speaker 5: Day two thirty seven. We'll talk about the Battle of

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Speaker 5: Chesapeake games and CHESSA games is a weird thing.

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Speaker 3: Can I just say really quickly, I really appreciate you

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Speaker 3: referring to it as America two fifty and not the

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Speaker 3: rebranded Freedom two fifty. We are in America to fifty

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Speaker 3: household here, So I appreciate.

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Speaker 5: I didn't even I haven't even heard of that. So

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Speaker 5: I don't just better that you haven't.

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Speaker 3: It's better than you haven't.

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Speaker 2: It's a bag of badgers.

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Speaker 5: Liberty two thirty five or thirty seven or whatever.

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Speaker 2: This Okay, what's up with the capes though, you guys?

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Speaker 5: Okay, yes, let's get into that. So it's an interesting

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Speaker 5: thing about this is that the most decisive military action

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Speaker 5: of the Yorktown Campaign did not involve a single American soldier,

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Speaker 5: sailor or marine. That's the story we're going to tell today.

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Speaker 5: So we all kind of know the story of Yorktown

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Speaker 5: the way that we are taught it in school. We

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Speaker 5: picture the British, they're pinned down on Peninsula and Virginia, Washington, Rochambeau.

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Speaker 5: The American and French armies link up, they trap Cornwallis

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Speaker 5: on this eninsula. They marched down there. Cornwallis is locked

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Speaker 5: into He's got this bunker system at this fort in Yorktown.

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Speaker 5: He gets surrounded, he gets attacked, he tries to break

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Speaker 5: out't he's not successful, and then he has to surrender

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Speaker 5: his army. That's the tale we've been told right.

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Speaker 6: Now, here's the thing. Yorktown is a coastal city, right,

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Speaker 6: so it's a peninsula surrounded by water, and the British, well,

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Speaker 6: at this point in history, who has the most powerful

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Speaker 6: navy on the planet. So the Brits, I mean, they

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Speaker 6: were basically ruling the Atlantic. So why were they stuck?

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Speaker 6: If the Royal Navy is the undisputed king of the sea,

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Speaker 6: how in the world did they let Cornwallis get cornered

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Speaker 6: on a piece of dirt when he couldn't escape by ship?

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Speaker 6: If you have, you know, the ultimate taxi service, why

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Speaker 6: are you waiting on the curb to get arrested?

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Speaker 5: Yes, So the reasonly revolution ends at Yorktown isn't because

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Speaker 5: we walked up and demanded them to surrender. It's because

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Speaker 5: a little bit before the siege there was something that happened.

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Speaker 5: There was a naval battle that happened off the coast

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Speaker 5: of Yorktown. That was among the most deadly naval conflicts

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Speaker 5: of the eighteenth century. It's called the Battle of Chesapeake Capes,

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Speaker 5: and it's the reason the United States exists. So we're

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Speaker 5: going to talk about some frenchmen. We're gonna talk about

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Speaker 5: some cannons. We're going to talk about British admirals, We're

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Speaker 5: going to talk about gunfire fighting, marines, all kinds of

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Speaker 5: badass stuff on this episode.

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Speaker 2: And in interest of full disclosure, folks, we just want

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Speaker 2: to get in front of the emails and the scuttle

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Speaker 2: but we are going to have to acknowledge that not

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Speaker 2: all bends are great. There is there is one bad

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Speaker 2: Bed in this story.

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Speaker 3: Just one bad Ben in the historical bunch and no more.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's there's Mussolini. I guess he qualifies, but.

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Speaker 3: He's a bit of a bend. I wonder if his

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Speaker 3: friends called I wonder if he was Ben to his friends.

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Speaker 3: I've always referred to him exclusively as Benito.

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Speaker 2: So yes, as Benito has a little ben uh Benedict Arnold,

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Speaker 2: we got to just I.

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Speaker 3: Think, really we're really expanding our definition of Ben's here.

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Speaker 5: That's true, that's true, that's true, are you, Benjamin, Is

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Speaker 5: this a legal inquiry?

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Speaker 3: We do have that, but.

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Speaker 5: Maybe it's not like if you're shortening for something else,

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Speaker 5: it's bad.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, Well, I just wanted to get in front

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Speaker 2: of that for us to make sure that you know, uh, you,

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Speaker 2: fellow ridiculous historians know as a crew that we do

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Speaker 2: not I hope we can say this unanimously. We do

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Speaker 2: not condone Benedict Arnold.

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Speaker 5: Arnold's an interesting character that we can. We can do

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Speaker 5: a whole thing on him, because we did a Badass

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Speaker 5: the Week on him, actually, because it was so wild,

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Speaker 5: like he was such a hero, such a brave American hero,

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Speaker 5: military commander, like so many amazing actions early on.

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Speaker 3: The war, but one thing, that one thing, you know.

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Speaker 5: Like that decision to find him. But he did a

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Speaker 5: lot of heroic stuff, but he won Saratoga. He like that.

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Speaker 3: I think we might have talked about this in the past.

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Speaker 3: Ben Yeah, it's not funny, man, how history can remember

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Speaker 3: you for the one bad thing and then your name

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Speaker 3: becomes a stand in for being a bad guy.

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Speaker 2: Well, ethel read the unready you can hear him debated

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Speaker 2: about at length in Badass of the Week. In the podcast,

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Speaker 2: ethel read the unready was actually unready multiple times.

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Speaker 5: That's true.

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Speaker 6: So he.

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Speaker 2: Okay, he deserved it. But we knows, as you're as

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Speaker 2: we're saying here, it may be new information to a

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Speaker 2: lot of us in the audience that when we're saying

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Speaker 2: Chesapeake capes, we're talking about a specific place, not a

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Speaker 2: style of cloak.

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Speaker 5: Yes, this is off the coast of Virginia, in the

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Speaker 5: Chesapeake Bay. So okay. So Cornwallis is trapped in. He's

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Speaker 5: trapped down in. So when the war begins, you have

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Speaker 5: or at this point in the war where at seventeen

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Speaker 5: eighty one, the British have an army up north and

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Speaker 5: they have an army down south. The army down south.

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Speaker 5: You guys have covered this before. But the army down

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Speaker 5: south is being beaten, right, They've lost the coalpins, they've

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Speaker 5: lost the Guildford Courthouse, they're retreating. Cornwallis's guys, he's got

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Speaker 5: half the British forces in North America, but he's lost

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Speaker 5: a couple battles. He needs to regroup, so he moves

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Speaker 5: moves into Yorktown, waiting to get picked up by a

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Speaker 5: zuber to bring him back to New York to regroup

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Speaker 5: and refit. Washington is up north. He's like, well, this

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Speaker 5: is our chance. So when Cornwallis retreats to Yorktown, Washington diverts,

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Speaker 5: like almost the entire American army in North America to

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Speaker 5: attack Yorktown, to try to just concentrate on this one thing.

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Speaker 5: We've gotten this guy, we've got him here. We need

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Speaker 5: to just attack it and try to knock this one

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Speaker 5: thing out, divide and conquer. Right, So he marches his

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Speaker 5: troops a very long distance in a very short period

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Speaker 5: of time to surround Yorktown. But in order for this

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Speaker 5: to the British can't, as Pat said, just roll up

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Speaker 5: with their boats and sail away. Now, this is where

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Speaker 5: we need to call in the French. And by seventeen

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Speaker 5: eighty one, the American Revolution is not just the thirteen

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Speaker 5: colonies in King George. It is a planet wide world war.

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Speaker 5: France and Spain have jumped in and there's fighting everywhere.

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Speaker 6: We've got naval battles in India, skirmishes in Africa, We've

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Speaker 6: got this huge kerfuffle going on in the Caribbean.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, so, I mean it's worth mentioning that the

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Speaker 5: bloodiest battle and longest battle of the War of the

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Speaker 5: American Revolution was the Siege of Gibraltar. More people died

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Speaker 5: there than any battle in the American Revolution, and it

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Speaker 5: was part of that war. So when you know, we

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Speaker 5: sent Benjamin Franklin, here's a good bend. We sent Benjamin

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Speaker 5: Franklin over to ed John Adams over to over to

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Speaker 5: France to negotiate this. And when France joined, like, the

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Speaker 5: deal we made with France was like, Okay, any territory

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Speaker 5: we take in North America is American, but I don't

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Speaker 5: care what you guys do otherwise, and so you just

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Speaker 5: fight whatever. And so the French and the Spanish start

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Speaker 5: attacking all of these British colonies all over the world,

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Speaker 5: like you said, India, Africa, the Caribbean. They try to

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Speaker 5: take Gibraltar, which was British, which is still British, but

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Speaker 5: they and they lay sieged for like years, right.

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Speaker 2: And also India is really interesting, Pat, I was not

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Speaker 2: aware of that, Noel, did you know about that.

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Speaker 3: I didn't hope.

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Speaker 5: France had colonies in India at the time, and they

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Speaker 5: were trying to take it over. It didn't work out

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Speaker 5: for them. They lost over there, but they tried. They

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Speaker 5: were just attacking everywhere that they could, and that really

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Speaker 5: spreads the English out right. It's not that the British

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Speaker 5: don't lose because France joins the war, because France sends

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Speaker 5: us a million soldiers to fight the war. They win

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Speaker 5: because France attacks places, honestly, places that English cares about more. Gibraltar, India,

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Speaker 5: the Caribbean. These are very very lucrative places for the

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Speaker 5: British Empire. And they're like, we don't have the forces,

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Speaker 5: we don't the resources to garrison all of this, so

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Speaker 5: we'll just give up on the North America and we'll

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Speaker 5: worry about the stuff that actually matters. We win because

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Speaker 5: they pressure them across all fronts and we open up

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Speaker 5: a you know, not just a second front of the war,

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Speaker 5: but a whole bunch of them. Now, okay, this is

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Speaker 5: what's going on here. And but in order to get

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Speaker 5: corn Wallace and his guys, we've got them trapped on

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Speaker 5: the peninsula. The British Navy is coming to pick them up,

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Speaker 5: and h we have to stop them. So this is

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Speaker 5: where the French fleet comes into play, and they have

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Speaker 5: to kind of sail in here and block this fleet

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Speaker 5: of British transport ships from picking up this whole army

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Speaker 5: and moving up to New York and expanding the extending

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Speaker 5: the war by probably years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: And this plan it's a gamp like every plan is

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Speaker 6: a gamble. It has to do with timing. If Washington

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Speaker 6: and the French General Rochambeau can get there first, we're fine.

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Speaker 6: But if the British fleet shows up at the same time,

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Speaker 6: even earlier, then Cornwall sails north and the whole thing

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Speaker 6: falls apart.

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Speaker 5: Right, this is our chance to catch half their army

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Speaker 5: is in one spot. We got to catch them before

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Speaker 5: they can escape.

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Speaker 2: There's a real ticking time bomb scenario.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, this is This is a serious fleet that's coming.

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Speaker 5: They are there. These are you know, think about like

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Speaker 5: Napoleonic era wooden warships, three decks of cannons. Right, The

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Speaker 5: American Navy basically does not existent. It's John Paul Jones

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Speaker 5: and like two guys and like a pirate. And that's it.

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Speaker 5: There's no fleet. There's no American fleet here. And the

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Speaker 5: John Paul Jones ship was built by for the French.

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Speaker 5: And so the British fleet rolls up and they are

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Speaker 5: coming with the armed escort of war ships and the

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Speaker 5: Admiral the French admiral is a guy named de Grassi.

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Speaker 5: He's he gives the order to sail out and meet

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Speaker 5: these guys. Now, this is where I want to introduce

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Speaker 5: a character who I think is going to be our

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Speaker 5: badass for this episode. Commanding the lead ship in the

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Speaker 5: French formation is the ship's called the August, and the

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Speaker 5: captain is a guy that you need to know. His

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Speaker 5: name is Louis Anton de Bougainville. And I'm sure I'm

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Speaker 5: mispronouncing that, Pat.

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Speaker 3: Maybe you want to it works on such authority.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's half of it. It's like karaoke, you just

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Speaker 5: got to do it. This guy is the captain of

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Speaker 5: the August, and he has already lived basically like three lifetimes.

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Speaker 5: He was born in Paris in seventeen twenty nine. His

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Speaker 5: family was minor nobility, but both his parents died when

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Speaker 5: he was five, and he was raised by his older brother.

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Speaker 5: He goes to the University of Paris. He publishes just

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Speaker 5: for fun, publishes two treatises on integral calculus. He's a

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Speaker 5: genius just for fun. He's a genius mathematician. He is

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Speaker 5: a musketeer. He joins the army in seventeen fifty as

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Speaker 5: a musketeer like d'Artagnan fights against the British in Canada

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Speaker 5: during the Seven Years War, where he takes part in

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Speaker 5: the defenses of both Quebec City and Montreal. He's wounded,

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Speaker 5: he gets knighted for heroism in battle. He takes part

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Speaker 5: of the diplomatic he's part of a diplomatic team sent

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Speaker 5: by France to negotiate the Treaty of Paris that ends

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Speaker 5: the war. And then after that he becomes a famous

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Speaker 5: explorer and naturalist. So he is the captain of the

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Speaker 5: expedition that sets up the first European colony on the

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Speaker 5: Falkland Islands, and then he commands the first French expedition

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Speaker 5: to circumnavigate the globe. He departs a Nansen seventeen sixty six.

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Speaker 5: It takes him three years. He lost seven guys out

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Speaker 5: of his three hundred and forty man crew. And that

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Speaker 5: was like going the long way around the Straight of Magellan,

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Speaker 5: so pretty badass stuff here. And along the way they're

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Speaker 5: doing the stuff that you see from like Captain Cook

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Speaker 5: and things where they're stopping at uncharted islands and like

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Speaker 5: doing you know, surveys of botanical surveys and drug pictures

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Speaker 5: of the animals and things that they.

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Speaker 2: See, and the bird and candy.

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Speaker 6: Yes, yes, yeah, and among his crew. This is a

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Speaker 6: fun little sidebar.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 6: There was a naturalist, Philibert Comerson, and his assistant was

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Speaker 6: a woman named Jean Barrie, and she disguised herself as

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Speaker 6: a man. But because she was able to get herself

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Speaker 6: on this expedition, she was the first woman to circumnavigate

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Speaker 6: the globe.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, she discussed herself as a man. She went

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Speaker 5: by Jean or Jean, and then it was Jean and she's, uh,

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Speaker 5: you could do that better than me, Pat, I think

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Speaker 5: you're more quick to handle that joke.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: But they found out like halfway through the halfway through

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Speaker 5: the journey that she was like so she was like

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Speaker 5: a you know, it wasn't like we found out years

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Speaker 5: and years later, like they found out on the journey

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Speaker 5: and but nobody really nobody cared, right, And it was

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Speaker 5: like she becomes the first woman a certain mavate the globe,

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Speaker 5: which is super cool.

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Speaker 2: They were like, oh, okay, everybody's got a backstory. Our

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Speaker 2: main thing is avoiding scurvy.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, that's.

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Speaker 6: The correct attitude. Yes, So After this Villa comes back,

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Speaker 6: he becomes a superstar. He's got like a million and

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Speaker 6: one different skills and experiences. He meets the King and Queen.

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Speaker 6: He gets a flower named after him. This is the

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Speaker 6: Bougainville the you know those big kind of flowers that

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Speaker 6: kind of spill over like purply magenta colors, and now.

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Speaker 5: I discovered them on its trip. They named him after him.

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Speaker 5: Super yeah, and well the botan is named it after him.

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Speaker 5: He didn't name it after himself.

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Speaker 2: Okay, good safe, good safe?

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Speaker 6: Yeah yeah. So okay, so you know he's not writing

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Speaker 6: calculus papers and picking the flowers in the South Pacific.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 6: His main thing is to be lead captain in the

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Speaker 6: most important naval battle of the American Revolution. So okay,

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Speaker 6: who's leading the French charge? A genius, a world famous explorer,

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Speaker 6: and a combat veteran. This sounds like the right guy

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Speaker 6: for the job, right.

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Speaker 5: Yes, Bougetvillas is a I mean, just a wild story. Right.

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Speaker 5: This guy's published published books on calculus and is you know,

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Speaker 5: is a celebrity, Like he's a national celebrity in France

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Speaker 5: for he's being the first Frenchman to circumnavigate the globe. Now,

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Speaker 5: he's volunteered to be the tip of the spear here.

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Speaker 5: This is not the kind of guy you put out

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Speaker 5: on the front of the battle lines. But when the

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Speaker 5: French fleet is lining up, he gets in the Augustin

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Speaker 5: and he's like, I'm in front. He sails right out

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Speaker 5: to the front. And this is a big warship seventy

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Speaker 5: four guns right, three decks, bigger than anything that the

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Speaker 5: Continental Navy could could field.

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Speaker 2: So for like current analogy here Ben would or current comparison,

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Speaker 2: this is kind of like an astronaut saying, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: did a lot of outer space stuff, but also I

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Speaker 2: want to lead a.

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Speaker 5: Battle, right, yeah, exactly. But he's also like a world

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Speaker 5: renowned like naturalist right and publish books like although I

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Speaker 5: guess are good at calculus also, So it's something like that, right,

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Speaker 5: It's like having somebody you've seen on TV decide that

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Speaker 5: they're going to like lead the charge and carry the

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Speaker 5: flag into battle. It's wild, okay. So August is out front.

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Speaker 5: He's the first one to spot the British, he's the

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Speaker 5: first one to orders men to run the guns out.

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Speaker 5: The stage is set for this battle. The British fleet

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Speaker 5: is coming in. They've got their transport. The troop transports

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Speaker 5: are lightly armed. They're waiting back to see what happens

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Speaker 5: in the battle. The British fleet is moving in here.

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Speaker 5: Nineteen ships, fourteen hundred cannons, and you've got the most

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Speaker 5: polished professional sailors on the planet. This is the greatest

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Speaker 5: navy on Earth and everybody knows it. Nineteen ships, each

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Speaker 5: of them three decks, most of them three decks. Man

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Speaker 5: of wars. The French have twenty four ships, so they've

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Speaker 5: got more ships, they've got a little bit more cannon.

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Speaker 5: They've got seventeen hundred and set up. They've go three

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Speaker 5: hundred more cannons and they've got five more ships. On paper,

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Speaker 5: that's an advantage, but in reality, the French navy has

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Speaker 5: not performed well against the British navy to this point

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Speaker 5: in the war, and they're going to continue to not

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Speaker 5: perform well against them as it's the years go by.

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Speaker 5: Uh Bougainville is out there in front and he's sent out.

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Speaker 5: He's also realizing that he's kind of dangerously overextended. He's

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Speaker 5: out there in the front right there, he's facing nineteen

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Speaker 5: ships by himself. The other guys are behind him, and

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Speaker 5: this is old style war where you've got to get

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Speaker 5: the side. You got to get the broadside right, think

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Speaker 5: about pirate battles things. You've got to get the side

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Speaker 5: of your ship on the side of their ship. And

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Speaker 5: if he's sailing out their front, you want to get

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Speaker 5: the You want your fleets to be an equal sign

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Speaker 5: to shoot in each other. But if you're doing that,

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Speaker 5: you're going first, and you're the one that's going to

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Speaker 5: get shot by all of those That first ship is

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Speaker 5: the one that gets shot by all those other ships

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Speaker 5: as it goes down that equal sign.

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Speaker 6: This is a This is a bold move. Some might

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Speaker 6: even call it reckless. Yes, so Bogel, he's got the

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Speaker 6: Auguste and he's daring the British. He's basically saying nin

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Speaker 6: or niner, come and get me, Come and get me,

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Speaker 6: and trying to draw all their fire right while he's

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Speaker 6: trying to distract them, while the rest of the French

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Speaker 6: fleet is still getting into position.

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Speaker 5: Yes, the august breaks formation and charges ahead by itself

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Speaker 5: to basically take on the entire British navy alone, which

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Speaker 5: forces the British admiral to try to react to this.

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Speaker 5: He's got to do something, right, He can have this

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Speaker 5: one ship just sailing out there, so he kind of

401
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Speaker 5: he ends up coming in at like a weird angle,

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Speaker 5: which helps the French in the battle. So the ships

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Speaker 5: kind of they come into line with each other and

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Speaker 5: the Augusta's out front. It's taking it's you know, they

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Speaker 5: run out the iron cannons row after a row of muzzles.

406
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Speaker 5: Soldiers are opening fire on each other there. The cannons

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Speaker 5: are shooting, but the ships get so close during the

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Speaker 5: battle that dudes are like climbing up onto the basts

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Speaker 5: and like shooting pistols and rifles at each other. Like

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Speaker 5: you can see the guys across room you. It's not

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Speaker 5: like a like you picture with a modern naval battle

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Speaker 5: where you're looking through like a telescope or anything. You

413
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Speaker 5: can see the dude in the in the sale across

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Speaker 5: from you and you're trying to shoot him with your rifle.

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Speaker 5: That's how close these guys are getting to each other.

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Speaker 5: And the ships are just devastating each other. They're blasting,

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Speaker 5: the masts get knocked off of the Augusts lose its masts.

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Speaker 5: We're talking like shrap and all the size of like

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Speaker 5: baseball bats like flying flying wildly around the decks here,

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Speaker 5: old school pirate Napoleonic style naval battle, and it's happening

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Speaker 5: in Virginia during the American Revolution. And for some reason

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Speaker 5: we've never heard this story before.

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Speaker 2: And we have to mention for a quick interjection here

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Speaker 2: you read my mind bent Napoleonic tactics, that's what we're

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Speaker 2: talking about, like the Civil War in the United States. Again,

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Speaker 2: it's a terrible name. That was an exhibition of Napoleonic

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Speaker 2: tactics on land where you had a bunch of people

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Speaker 2: who were largely going to be poor, if we're going

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Speaker 2: to be honest, and he made them stand in line

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Speaker 2: and sort of march at each other until they died.

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Speaker 3: A little bit of a cannon fought our type situation.

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00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 2: Just so, yes, sir, And so we're saying that at

433
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 2: this time in this maritime conflict, people were still deployed

434
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: that Napoleonic philosophy, correct.

435
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 5: Right, right, because this predates Napoleon, so this would be

436
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 5: twenty years before Napoleon.

437
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 2: So they didn't call it that. Yeah, he named it

438
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 2: after himself later.

439
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 5: Right, right guy, our guy who Gunville is going to

440
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 5: meet Napoleon later on. But yeah, so this is right,

441
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 5: before that, and that's the time period, right, This is

442
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 5: it's not common for even at this time. It's not

443
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 5: common for naval battles to take place at this range,

444
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 5: this close to each other, right, because you have so

445
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 5: many cannons and they just blast each other and everything's

446
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 5: on fire, the master getting knockoffs, all these people are

447
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 5: dying left and right. Usually you shoot from a farther

448
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 5: distance away and try to hope that your guy's aim

449
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 5: is better than theirs. Right, these cannons are not super accurate,

450
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 5: they're not rifled boers or anything, so you just kind

451
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 5: of hope that your guy's going to reskill is a

452
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 5: little better than their guys going to reskill, and you

453
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 5: fight from a long ways away until it's time to

454
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 5: like maybe board them with your marines or whatever. But

455
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 5: this doesn't This isn't common, and it is an advantage

456
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 5: actually for the French, who are not as talented at

457
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 5: at gunnery as the British are. So you get close

458
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 5: like that you can't miss, and this just lets them

459
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 5: use their twenty five ships and their seventeen hunder cannons.

460
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 5: It might not be great strategy, like you said, just

461
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 5: kind of march at these dudes, but like, we got

462
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 5: more than they do. They're better shots than us, so

463
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 5: let's just get as close as possible. And the August

464
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 5: and Bougainville, they are able to kind of mess up

465
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 5: the British formation by charging in a really weird way.

466
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 5: He kind of lone wolves it a little bit and

467
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 5: disrupts their formation, which is also an advantage to the

468
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 5: first I mean, it's he pays for it. Him and

469
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 5: his crews get blasted pretty heavily for this, but it

470
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 5: is effective now, you know usually, but like you said,

471
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 5: usually you're looking at somebody through a telescope. You're not

472
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 5: looking the guy in the eye trying to shoot at

473
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 5: him with a handgun in a naval battle in this

474
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 5: time period.

475
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 6: And Boville in his note in his log, he says

476
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 6: the vanguard was very hotly engaged. The fire was very brisk,

477
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 6: which is this is a.

478
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 3: Very that's understating the case just a little bit. Yes, yeah,

479
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 3: brisk is something you used to refer to like a

480
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 3: breeze or like, yeah, but I appreciate the word.

481
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 6: But yeah, and speaking of breezes and atmospheric phenomenon, we're

482
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,239
Speaker 6: talking about this and we're picturing this, and we can

483
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 6: picture the ship in that ship and the guys who

484
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 6: can see each other without telescopes. But sometimes what gets

485
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 6: lost in uh, the way people tell this is that

486
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 6: this this naval battle, this Titanic history changing struggle, that's

487
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 6: deciding the fate of an entire continent. It's happening right

488
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 6: off the coast of Virginia, Okay. And yet if you

489
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 6: were on the shore, you couldn't see a single thing.

490
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,959
Speaker 6: There is so much smoke, and it becomes a literal

491
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 6: fog of war. The cannon smoke is so thick, so heavy,

492
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 6: and so pervasive, like think after a fireworks show, except

493
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 6: like times, I don't know how many orders of magnitude,

494
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 6: there's just this wall of gray. You've got thousands of men,

495
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 6: millions of dollars of pounds or francs or whatever of

496
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 6: naval hardware, and you've got the future of the American

497
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 6: Revolution all just clashing together in this. You know, it's

498
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 6: a hot mess, but it's a hot mess in a

499
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 6: hidden bubble of violence. And then the people, I mean,

500
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 6: I don't know if anyone's actually willing to sit on

501
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 6: the beach in Virginia, but I guess maybe you know,

502
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 6: what would they know, you know, going down to the

503
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 6: beach and then you maybe hear a faint, distant rumble

504
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 6: and maybe you guess that maybe there's some naval activity

505
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 6: going on. I don't know, but you can't see it,

506
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 6: you know, even if you're standing on a pier, you

507
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 6: would not be able to see it. And that's going

508
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 6: on for two hours, these two fleets locked in this

509
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 6: brutal blind engagement, and finally one side realizes, hmm, maybe

510
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 6: we're losing the gamble.

511
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 5: Yes, So there is this fog of warships are getting separated.

512
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 5: It becomes this like you know, it starts as this

513
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 5: big line and whenever you look at like military tactic stuff,

514
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 5: that's always how they draw it up. But like once

515
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 5: you kind of get into a frenzy, once they kind

516
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 5: of get into a brawl like this, it ends up

517
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 5: like the August is fighting two British ships. They're fighting

518
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 5: the Ajax and the Terrible. So there's two seventy four

519
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 5: gun British ships fighting the fighting the seventy four gun

520
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 5: and August and they're just battling each other and other

521
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 5: stuff is happening. But like you said, the fog of

522
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 5: war is so dense. You can't really see outside of it.

523
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 5: The masts are down on all these ships, so there's

524
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 5: no sailing anymore. You're barely 're barely rowing. They're shooting

525
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 5: at whatever they can shoot at. And like you said,

526
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 5: this is you know, we've got seventeen hundred canons on one side,

527
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 5: fourteen on the other. We're looking at something like thirty

528
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 5: three thousand plus cannons firing as fast as they can

529
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 5: fire multiple like at least I can't remember how far

530
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 5: off the coast it is, but it's miles off the coast,

531
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 5: so it's not visible. And you know, maybe that's why

532
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 5: the story doesn't get talked about as much, because no

533
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 5: Americans were there and they couldn't No Americans could see it.

534
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 5: So but this battle is like defining the American Revolution.

535
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 5: And yes, like you said, you know, when when things

536
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 5: are starting to look kind of bad, after two hours,

537
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 5: darkness is starting to fall. You can't fight in darkness,

538
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 5: and you don't want to because you don't want to

539
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 5: accidentally crash into any of these other ships. So darkness

540
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 5: starts to fall. The British retreat, they've lost almost four

541
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 5: hundred guys. The French have lost two hundred dead and wounded.

542
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 5: The Terrible is sinking. It's unable to be repaired, it

543
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 5: sinks to the bottom of the harbor. Rescue boats terrible.

544
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 5: It's terrible. Yeah, it's terrible for that boat you've got.

545
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 5: You know one thing that we think of, we don't

546
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 5: think about too much with big colonial naval battles, is

547
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 5: you have rescue boats. So there's dudes out in rowboats

548
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 5: rowing around trying to pick up sailors out of the water.

549
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 5: You've got guys kind of hanging on and some of

550
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 5: these sailors can't swim because they're drafted into this service.

551
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 5: They're not These aren't Some of these guys aren't volunteers.

552
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 5: They're just impressed into service, so they can't swim. They're

553
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 5: just holding on to like things that are floating and

554
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 5: holding on, holding on to wreckage. You've got these guys

555
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 5: rowing around on boats trying to pull them out. The

556
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 5: British Admiral Sir Thomas Graves, He's like, I think this

557
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 5: is it. Like, I don't think I can break through

558
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 5: this wall here. I don't have the I don't have

559
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 5: the manpower to do it, and I've taken too many

560
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 5: hits here and his ships are all just smashed. The

561
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 5: French tactic was to shoot down the masts of the

562
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 5: British ships, because that's the thing that you can't really

563
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 5: repair in the field, and it affects your ability to

564
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 5: do anything else if you can't if you have no engine. Basically,

565
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 5: So the British retreat and dawn breaks at Yorktown. Rochambeau

566
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 5: is there, Washington's there, you had mentioned Alexander Hamilton, He's there.

567
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 5: Marquis de Lafayat's there, and you know, they do go

568
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 5: to the beach in Virginia for some reason, and what they.

569
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: See they heard a distant rumbling.

570
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 5: They heard a distant rumbling in Thunderia. And they come

571
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 5: back and as they're standing on the pier, they can

572
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 5: see twenty four French warships returning to the harbor and

573
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 5: they're like, that's it, we did it. We got them.

574
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 5: Like there's this huge cheer goes up down the line

575
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 5: of the from the soldiers on both sides, and that's it.

576
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 5: Cornwall's is not going to get out. The French and

577
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 5: the Americans surround them, they besiege them, they start firing

578
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 5: cannons at them, and October seventeen seventeen eighty one, Cornwall's

579
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 5: requests a ceasefire. Two days later, he unconditionally surrenders all

580
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 5: British forces under his command, and with that one signature,

581
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 5: half of the British army in North America becomes prisoners

582
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 5: of war.

583
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 3: Wow wow, yeah boy, right, half half.

584
00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 5: The war goes on for two more years because the

585
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 5: guys in New York don't surrender as easily, but they

586
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 5: don't make any real expeditions out of there, and without

587
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 5: these troops that Cornwallis has had, like, they can't they

588
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 5: can't do anything, right, So the United States ends up.

589
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 5: The war ends officially in seventeen eighty three, and all

590
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 5: of the hard work that was done by the colonials

591
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 5: over the many many years of this war results in

592
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 5: a free and independent United States. But it is largely

593
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 5: due to this The Yorktown Campaign, which gets mentioned all

594
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 5: the time, is the end of the war, and it's

595
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 5: not really the end of the war goes on for

596
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 5: two more years, but it's very interesting that like like

597
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 5: oh yeah, roch Bo showed up to he was also there.

598
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 5: It's like there was also twenty four French warships with

599
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 5: seventeen hundred cannons, like lasting the British Navy. We should

600
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 5: probably mention this. I feel like when we talk about.

601
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: Yorktown, that's true. I just I love the way we're

602
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: portraying it because for a lot of us it will

603
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 2: it will call to mind the big question about all

604
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 2: the people who signed the Declaration of Independence. American school

605
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 2: kids know some of the top names, but I always

606
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: love thinking about the other the person who was in

607
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: the room for you know, maybe there was there was

608
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: a different reason. Maybe they were bringing the snacks in

609
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 2: and they were like, oh yeah, i'll sign it too, man,

610
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 2: I want to be part of the thing this.

611
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 3: Did you say the snacks or the stacks snacks? Snacks? Okay,

612
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 3: you have stacks of snacks, potentially.

613
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 2: Stacks of snacks. Just so and there there's another thing

614
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 2: we we have to mention here in in you all's research.

615
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: I'm not sure for the of the best way to

616
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: uh to set this up. I think you all did

617
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: it perfectly with the title. I did not want to

618
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 2: go to your stupid party anyway. What's that about.

619
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 5: Have you guys discussed Banisterear Tarleton yet we did a

620
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 5: badass on him. One Bannister Tarleton is the guy who

621
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 5: the bad guy in The Patriot is based off him.

622
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 5: Bash Tartan was like this twenty year old, like cavalry officer.

623
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 5: He's just just the perfect, just bad guy, just everything,

624
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 5: just burning burning stuff. They called him Butcher Tarleton or

625
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 5: Bloody band for Bloody Banister or Tarlton. He's like a

626
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 5: he's an episode by himself. He's just like a he's

627
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 5: the ultimate villain of the American Revolution and you know,

628
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 5: just everything you can think of. His parents were like

629
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 5: so he showed up and he like he claimed to

630
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 5: have like killed more men and ravished more women than

631
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 5: any other British officer in the war. Like he would

632
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 5: go around bragging about that after and like he you know,

633
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 5: he's just this monster of a person. He's burning cities,

634
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 5: he's killing prisoners of war. We can't stop him. And

635
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 5: he's recruiting loyalists to like fight for him, which everybody

636
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 5: hates more than having the actual fight actual British anyway,

637
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 5: we all hate this guy. And when the war ends

638
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 5: at Yorktown, they have a big this is a very

639
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 5: this is very a eighteenth century, right, They have this

640
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 5: big party, so Rochambeau and Washington invite Cornwallace to dinner

641
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 5: and they have this big dinner for all of the

642
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 5: American and British and French officers. I can think of

643
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 5: nothing more eighteenth century. And I don't know, I just

644
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 5: picture it being chill. I pictured just being like, oh,

645
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 5: that's a good war. Good war for you, yeah, good

646
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 5: war for me.

647
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: It's like when we were all playing child sports and

648
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: we had to get in a little line and yeah,

649
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 2: it's like that, yeah, oh wow, good.

650
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think so. But they didn't invite manister Charlton.

651
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, of his vibe, right.

652
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 5: Because he's like yeah, because he was just he was

653
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 5: just a miserable, awful person and everybody hated him. And

654
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 5: it doesn't end badly for him either. He goes back,

655
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 5: he becomes like the superstar. He becomes a member of

656
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 5: parliament who advocates for the slave trade. He marries like

657
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 5: like the most famous like a stage performer, Starlett in London.

658
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 5: You know, it's like become super rich. It's just the worst.

659
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 5: Just he's just the worst. He's the worst in like

660
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 5: sometimes in a funny way, he's.

661
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 3: The worst in a a in a cadre of worst.

662
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, he's the worst, but he didn't get invited

663
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 5: to the party.

664
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 6: And he's ban b A N, not Ben with B

665
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 6: E N.

666
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 3: Pat, thank you so much that that's important. That's an

667
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 3: important detail. I think we buried the lead.

668
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: Yes, he is a different, different guy, different different first

669
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: name with a b uh. It's also we love the point,

670
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 2: guys that the battle of your town is seen as

671
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 2: a climactic, titular event, obviously right, but it is important

672
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: to remember that things continued, as you said, for several years.

673
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: And and one of the facts, no, I don't know

674
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 2: about you, man, but one of the facts that's going

675
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: to stick with me here is when you Pat portrayed

676
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 2: the Revolutionary War here in the US as a facet

677
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 2: of a larger World war. Is it fair to call

678
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 2: that era of conflict the First World War?

679
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 5: No, because you have the Austrian Succession, you have the

680
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 5: Seven Years War, you have all kinds of like world

681
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 5: wars like this is a very European thing because they've

682
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 5: been you know, this is kind of a continuation of

683
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 5: the Seven Years War. This one doesn't even get mentioned

684
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 5: that much in some of the other when you're discussing

685
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 5: other you know the secrets of European wars. But yeah,

686
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 5: this was just a mess. It culminated in that, right,

687
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 5: because you have all these alliances. Spain is on France's

688
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 5: side for this war. Spain is with US and France

689
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 5: against England. But then once that war ends, France and

690
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 5: Spain are going to go to war with each other.

691
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 5: It's a mess.

692
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 2: Talk about a bag of badgers, geez.

693
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 5: Before we end, though, ben I would like to wrap

694
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 5: Bougainville because he is an interesting character and he survives

695
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 5: this battle. He leaves his ship, he loses a lot

696
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 5: of soldiers, he loses a lot of sailors and marines

697
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 5: in his battle, but he survives. He sinks one of

698
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 5: the British wars. He sinks the British Worship. He continues

699
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 5: on fights in a few other battles in the Caribbean

700
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 5: as part of this series of conflicts. Right, he fights

701
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 5: in the Battle of the Saints, which is the French

702
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 5: are like, okay, we'll just take Bermuda because we're here,

703
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 5: We'll just attack Bermuda, and he fights in a battle

704
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 5: there After the war, he goes home. He becomes an

705
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 5: instructor at the French Naval Academy. He joins the French

706
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 5: Academy of Sciences. He's able to not be guillotine during

707
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 5: the reign of Terror, he lives in this really nice

708
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 5: est state in the Normandy coast. And then under the

709
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 5: reign of Napoleon, he's made it. He's made a count.

710
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 5: He's like given an order of nobility and becomes a

711
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 5: count and he serves as a senator for a while

712
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 5: in Napoleon's the government. He dies in eighteen eleven and

713
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 5: he's buried in the Pantheon in Paris, which is like

714
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 5: a huge honor for like the greatest heroes of France,

715
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 5: every part of him except for his heart, which is

716
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 5: buried at his old house, which is interesting.

717
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 2: Why I don't know, home is where your heart is.

718
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 3: That's just usually that's just like a crochet, you know,

719
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 3: blackerd or something like that.

720
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 6: Not necessarily, sometimes you take it literally.

721
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 2: So I imagine, so, yes, home is where the heart is.

722
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: This is nominalist to us Pat and Ben because this

723
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 2: is ethics aside. This is a story that is larger

724
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 2: than life. There is more than one badass involved here, right,

725
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 2: So one of the questions we have to ask you

726
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 2: all on behalf of our fellow ridiculous historians? Is this,

727
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 2: how do we define a badass? What constitutes badass ery?

728
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 2: Does it always have to mean a good person?

729
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 6: Oh? Ben and I've talked about this. Yeah, yeah, it

730
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 6: doesn't always mean a good person. That's not a requirement,

731
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 6: although many badasses are good people or work for the

732
00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 6: service of good Yeah.

733
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 3: Right, yeah.

734
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 5: So the thing that came up when I was doing

735
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 5: the first Badass book, I wrote it the whole book, right,

736
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 5: I've been doing the website for five years, six years.

737
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 5: I got the book. I'd written all forty chapters for

738
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 5: the book, and my editor was like, you need to

739
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 5: do an introduction chapter you defind badass. I'm like, I

740
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 5: don't know. I don't know what makes all these guys badass?

741
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 5: What does Leonidas have in common with Genghis Khan? How

742
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 5: is Joan of arc there? But you know for ratio

743
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 5: of Nelson? Like, how all these guys? What is the thing? Like?

744
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 2: What's our rubric? Right?

745
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 5: What's the unifying factor here? And I think what it

746
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 5: came down to you was your determination and your perseverance

747
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 5: to accomplish great things?

748
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 3: Right?

749
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 5: These are all people who had a goal that they

750
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 5: were going after and they worked really really hard to

751
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 5: get it, and they accomplished it. And sometimes that gold

752
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 5: is criminally insane, but that's I think that still counts, right.

753
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 5: The thing that makes these people inspiring to us is

754
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 5: is that Bougainville was like, I am going to a takeout.

755
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 5: I am a world renowned explorer and international celebrity, but

756
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 5: I am I believe in this, and I believe in

757
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 5: the cause of liberty. And remember that the French fighting

758
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 5: in this battle, they are not They're still a monarchy.

759
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 5: They're not. They're not. This is not they're not flying

760
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 5: the tricolor flag. This is pre French Revolution. A lot

761
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 5: of the ideals of the American Revolution will rub off

762
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 5: onto the French who are here. But this is the

763
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 5: period of the Enlightenment in France. They are still trying

764
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 5: to reconcile. Let's be free thinkers and think for ourselves

765
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 5: and have all this interesting ideas. Let's try to reconcile

766
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 5: that with there's also a monarchy, and God tells us

767
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 5: that we have to do these things because this guy

768
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 5: tells us we have to do them well.

769
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 3: And also, I mean, the the Enlightenment seems like it

770
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 3: would inherently kind of clash with the idea of warfare

771
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 3: and killing other humans, very enlightened behavior exactly exactly.

772
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 5: But these guys get out there and they're like, well,

773
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 5: I gotta, you know, you gotta break some eggs, and

774
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 5: they're they're like, we gotta you know, he believes in this.

775
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 5: He's like, I gotta get out here. I'm gonna fight

776
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 5: for These guys are fighting for like freedom and and

777
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 5: you know, their own self determination all this stuff. And

778
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 5: so he's he's a true believer and he goes and

779
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 5: he's like, I'm going to fight for it. I don't

780
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 5: care that like I'm a celebrity or whatever. I don't

781
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 5: care that this is the most dangerous position on the fleet.

782
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 5: I am going to go after this. I'm going to

783
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 5: fight these guys and I'm going to win, and I'm

784
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 5: gonna win help help you know, America win its independence.

785
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,720
Speaker 5: I'm going to fight these British who I've been fighting

786
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 5: my whole life. And there's something inspiring about these people

787
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 5: who who you know, get out there and do these

788
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 5: things right. They kind of inspire us to you know,

789
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 5: I'm not badass in my actual life, but you know,

790
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:24,879
Speaker 5: there are days where I feel like I don't want

791
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 5: to answer my emails, and then I try to think

792
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 5: about Ville charging seventeen British warships, and I'm like, maybe

793
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 5: I'll answer my emails this morning.

794
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 2: So you know, it might be badass to dodge an email,

795
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 2: you know what?

796
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 3: I Yeah, you rebel.

797
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're lead. You're the tip of the spear on

798
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 2: that one. Right.

799
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 5: I handed my emails the way he handled the Terrible

800
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 5: and the AJAX. Just delete, just demolish my eail read

801
00:42:53,000 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 5: delete doctor's office. What do they want? Delete exactly?

802
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 2: Spam? Likely not with me. It's a joke earlier about uh, nol.

803
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 2: I think we were talking off air about some phone calls, right,

804
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 2: oh yeah, and we also again, folks, Noel, Max and

805
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 2: I are not blowing smoke. We're not blowing rainbows or

806
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 2: trumpets and angel farts here. Badass of the Week is

807
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 2: one of our favorite favorite explorations of exactly what we

808
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: are hanging out with today and indeed the entirety of

809
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 2: this week. Pat, thank you so much for coming and

810
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 2: hanging out with us, Benans.

811
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 6: For having me.

812
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Ben, you know, Nolan, I have to

813
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 2: do the check in. Pat, are you okay with this

814
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:52,879
Speaker 2: Ben Thompson guy. Is he all right?

815
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's all right.

816
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 3: He seems pretty cool to me. Cool and thanks for

817
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 3: coming back then, just to check it.

818
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 5: If you want to exit the.

819
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 2: Podcast, well, thanks as always to our super producer, mister

820
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 2: Max Williams. We usually have a long run of credits.

821
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 2: We're going to save you guys some time here except

822
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 2: for one thing. We have to recommend a good friend

823
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 2: of the show that you all should hang out with

824
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 2: if you haven't already. His name is A. J. Jacobs.

825
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 5: Oh, we had him on our show. He's awesome. Yeah.

826
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, we call him Bahamas for you can never ask

827
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 2: him why not sure either, I don't know.

828
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 3: He's a good guy that makes perfect sense. I got

829
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 3: to check out that episode.

830
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, we had a great episode with him. I was

831
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 5: doing for a while. I was doing the drink of

832
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 5: the show, where every show I would have some kind

833
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 5: of beverage that was related to whatever we were talking about.

834
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 3: Then we were doing history.

835
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, we were doing a Mongolian Pat had brought some

836
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 5: Mongolian in mythology the Jingar Epic, and those guys all

837
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 5: drink fermented Mare's milk.

838
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 3: Oh in the story. Yeah, oh, good.

839
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 5: So I ordered fermented Mayor's milk from Mongolia.

840
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 6: I did not make him do this. This is own initiative.

841
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 5: It's boozy. Yeah, it's it's fermented, so it's it's alcohol.

842
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 5: It's like a it's you know, it's like a wine

843
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 5: level of alcohol.

844
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:25,399
Speaker 6: What'd you take?

845
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 2: Did you all enjoy it?

846
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 5: I drank it. We don't, you know, we live in

847
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 5: different cities, so I just did it over zoom and

848
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,760
Speaker 5: yeah it was. It was really not good.

849
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 2: It was yeah, I don't know. I got that seven

850
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 2: League stare first.

851
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, but that was the show AJ was on. I

852
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 5: drank it and it was. It tasted like hay and

853
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 5: uh and that was the end of the drink of

854
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 5: the show. We never did it again.

855
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:50,399
Speaker 6: It was that bad.

856
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 3: Hey is indeed for horses and good good on you

857
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 3: for taking one for the team.

858
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that episode is like eighty percent of

859
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 5: that episode is just me gagging.

860
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 2: Ilad you made it well.

861
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Speaker 3: Note to self on alcoholic beverages, never to try. But

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Speaker 3: thanks again y'all for coming and we will see you

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Speaker 3: next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

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Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your

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Speaker 3: favorite shows