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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the White Tail Woods. Present it by First Light, creating

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Speaker 1: proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind.

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Speaker 1: First Light, Go farther, stay Longer, and now your host

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I am your host,

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Speaker 2: Mark Kenyon, and this week on the show, I'm joined

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Speaker 2: by Steve Varnella to discuss how he's used the great

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Speaker 2: outdoors as a classroom for teaching his children about life

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Speaker 2: and a whole lot more. All right, welcome to the

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Speaker 2: Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light,

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Speaker 2: and today we are wrapping up our month long series

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Speaker 2: on parenting outdoor kids, and I think it is fitting

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Speaker 2: to wrap it up with the one and only mister

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Speaker 2: Steven Rinella, my friend, a colleague, a guy who has

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Speaker 2: taught me both kind of from afar and in some

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Speaker 2: more personal interactions about bringing people into the outside, sharing

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Speaker 2: the outdoors with folks, teaching folks about the outdoors, and

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Speaker 2: doing that not just with the random people, but also

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Speaker 2: even with your own children. He is the author of

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Speaker 2: a couple books on this very topic, which again makes

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Speaker 2: him a perfect guest for us to help wrap a

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Speaker 2: bow on this whole thing. These two books. One of

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Speaker 2: them came out last year. It's titled Outdoor Kids in

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Speaker 2: an Inside World, Getting your family out of the house

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Speaker 2: and radically engaged with nature. It's a great book. I

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Speaker 2: highly recommend it. I enjoyed it. Like I said, that

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Speaker 2: one's already out there. And then in a couple of

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Speaker 2: weeks from now on June thirteenth, twenty twenty three, his

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Speaker 2: next book is Hitting the Shelves, and this one is

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Speaker 2: titled Catch a Crayfish, Count the Stars, Fun Projects, Skills

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Speaker 2: and Adventures for Outdoor Kids. And this is like an

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Speaker 2: activity book for younger folks to engage with the natural

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Speaker 2: world and build the skills and the experiences that will

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Speaker 2: make you a competent hunter, angler, or just someone who

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Speaker 2: enjoys the outside. I got an early copy of it,

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Speaker 2: and me and my kids have been enjoying it. It's great,

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Speaker 2: it's full of fun things. My son, in particular, my

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Speaker 2: oldest son, was really really excited that Steve had written

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Speaker 2: a book for kids like him. So if you've got

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Speaker 2: a young child, my boys are three and five and

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Speaker 2: they like it. So if you've got a kid that

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Speaker 2: old up to I don't know twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,

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Speaker 2: who knows what. There's a lot of stuff in there

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Speaker 2: for them. Highly recommend it. You can pre order it now,

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Speaker 2: and if you're listening to this after June thirteenth, just

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Speaker 2: get out of there and buy it. I'm sure you

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Speaker 2: can buy it from the mediator dot com at our store.

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Speaker 2: So that's the plug on the book front. But most importantly,

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Speaker 2: you know Steve, if you've listened to his podcast, if

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Speaker 2: you've read his books, if you've watched his show, you

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Speaker 2: know that he brings a thoughtful approach to everything he does.

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Speaker 2: And that's the kind of lens I think that we

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Speaker 2: have been trying to look at parenting through and especially

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Speaker 2: parenting a child that we hope will engage in the

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Speaker 2: natural world. And that's something obviously that Steve's been doing

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Speaker 2: with his own three kids that I think Gosh knows.

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Speaker 2: I think his oldest is maybe thirteen or almost thirteen.

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Speaker 2: So he's been at this for a while. He's had

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Speaker 2: some interesting experiences that have colored that. And so here's

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Speaker 2: what we talk about, Steve. We talk about some of

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Speaker 2: the childhood experiences that he had himself when he was

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Speaker 2: a kid that have impacted his parenting. Today, we talk

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Speaker 2: about a lot of different ways that he tries to

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Speaker 2: balance the outdoor experiences that he cultivates for his kids,

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Speaker 2: both trying to allow them to be enjoyable, but also

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Speaker 2: taking advantage of them as a learning experience and a

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Speaker 2: personal kind of growth opportunity. That's been a big thing.

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Speaker 2: If you've listened to the past three episodes with Tony

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Speaker 2: with My Dad with Clay, you'll know this has been

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Speaker 2: one of my big questions, which is, how do I

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Speaker 2: balance making the outdoors or making hunting, or making fishing

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Speaker 2: or camping or hiking. How do you make that fun?

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Speaker 2: How to keep it fun so your kid is engaged

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Speaker 2: and wants to keep doing it. How do you also

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Speaker 2: use these things as a learning vessel to teach toughness

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Speaker 2: or how to deal with the diversity, or perseverance, or

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Speaker 2: you know, a thousand different things that these outdoor experiences

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Speaker 2: can provide. That's something that I asked Steve about and

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Speaker 2: he has some great thoughts on. Another thing that I've

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Speaker 2: wrestled with a lot and that Steve helped me bring

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Speaker 2: some clarity to, was this idea of how do we

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Speaker 2: teach our children about conservation? How do we instill in

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Speaker 2: them an appreciation for the natural world. How do we

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Speaker 2: do all those things without overwhelming them, without taking the

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Speaker 2: fun out of it. That's something that I really appreciated

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Speaker 2: Steve's perspective on as well. So today we're going to

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Speaker 2: get a look at how Steve raised his kids to

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Speaker 2: live eye to eye with nature. It is is a

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Speaker 2: conversation I really enjoyed. I think you will too, And

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Speaker 2: do not forget to go pick up those two books

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Speaker 2: I mentioned, because there's a whole lot more than what

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Speaker 2: Steve and I can get to today, and those books

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Speaker 2: cover it. I know you'll enjoy it. So without further ado,

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Speaker 2: let's get mister Stephen Ranella on the line. All right

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Speaker 2: with me? Now, I've got the one and only Steve Ranella. Steve,

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Speaker 2: thank you for making time for this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, Mark Man.

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Speaker 4: We haven't done anything in a long time, so this

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Speaker 4: is good.

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Speaker 2: I know it's been a little while, and I'm pulling

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Speaker 2: in on.

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Speaker 4: The since the back forty days, dude, I know.

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Speaker 2: I'm pulling in for the hard hitting stuff too. We're

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Speaker 2: talking parenting, So no softballs. If you're if you're okay

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Speaker 2: with that.

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Speaker 4: Steve Man, you drive by the bag forty.

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Speaker 2: I don't drive by often, but I have been back

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Speaker 2: and forth here and there and been there volunteering and

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Speaker 2: mentoring hunter. So I've been seeing it. It's looking good.

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Speaker 3: Is there any are there any?

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Speaker 4: Are there any toads out there right now?

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Speaker 2: I don't know about right now, but last year there

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Speaker 2: was because no one's sporting their sport and their official

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Speaker 2: head gear yet, you know. But I was out there

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Speaker 2: with one of the new hunters last year and we

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Speaker 2: had a really nice buck stand up on one of

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Speaker 2: those fields just out of range and had had a

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Speaker 2: really close Yeah. So it's been it's been producing. I mean,

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Speaker 2: almost two dozen people I think have killed their first

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Speaker 2: year out there.

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Speaker 3: Now that's great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's been. It's been really incredible. When we

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Speaker 2: have more time, I'll have to actually give you a

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Speaker 2: bunch of the details. It's been very cool to see

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Speaker 2: what's happened there. And uh, I guess that ties in

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Speaker 2: really well to this conversation too, because that that's been

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Speaker 2: a whole mentorship kind of story over there, and and

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Speaker 2: today I want to talk about mentoring kids. And I

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Speaker 2: don't know how you feel about this, Steve. There's some

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Speaker 2: days when I think about this whole parenting thing, and

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Speaker 2: it feels like I've got it figured out, like things

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Speaker 2: are working out. My boys are, you know, coming along

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Speaker 2: the way I hope they would, and they're listening great,

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Speaker 2: and I'm excited about their future. And then there's other

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Speaker 2: days where I'm wondering, Man, how did I get here?

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Speaker 2: How am I qualified to do this? What am I

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Speaker 2: doing today? You've you've written now two books, the newest

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Speaker 2: one coming out June thirteenth, related to this idea of parenting,

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Speaker 2: And I'm wondering, do you feel like you're an expert

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Speaker 2: at parenting yet? Or do you still have days like

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Speaker 2: I'm describing where it's just not happening or you've got

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Speaker 2: these question marks.

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Speaker 3: First off, man, I would never ever ever say that

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Speaker 3: I was an expert in parenting.

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Speaker 4: In fact, when I hear of like a parenting.

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Speaker 3: Expert, that's the quickest way to get me to tune out. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the quickest way to tune out what I'm here and

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Speaker 3: because or to tune them out, because the minute I

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Speaker 3: hear that, I imagine someone one who is taking a

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Speaker 3: really strange, perhaps alternate path to their expertise or meaning

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Speaker 3: that they're applying theory right, that they're like a parenting

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Speaker 3: expert in that they're applying theory or developing theory around

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Speaker 3: raising kids rather than just the nitty gritty, hands on

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Speaker 3: version of it. You know, I know so many great

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Speaker 3: parents that I've admired my whole life, and none of

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Speaker 3: them has ever uttered parenting expert. It was one time

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Speaker 3: my brother Danny was saying that when he when people

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Speaker 3: came to him and said, oh, you're such a good dad,

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Speaker 3: he would say he would think to himself, meaning that

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Speaker 3: I'm not sociopathic, like, of course, I would hope you're

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Speaker 3: trying to you know. It's like he congratulated for that

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Speaker 3: holding up my end of the bargain. But I uh,

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Speaker 3: that's a long winded way of saying. I know, here's

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Speaker 3: what I'm an expert on. I'm an expert on after

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Speaker 3: my oldest just turned thirteen. I have three kids eight, ten, thirteen.

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Speaker 3: I am an expert. Undoubtedly. I am an expert on

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Speaker 3: getting your kids outside, whether that's been a success or failure.

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Speaker 3: I'm an expert on what it involves to get your

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Speaker 3: kids outside, introduce them to nature, and get them into

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Speaker 3: hunting and fishing. Like I am an.

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Speaker 4: Expert, because I mean, you know, I've been doing it

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Speaker 4: for a long time.

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Speaker 3: I guess I could get better when I have grandkids,

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Speaker 3: and then I did it all the way with my

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Speaker 3: kids and all the way with grandkids, maybe I'd be

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Speaker 3: even better than I am now. I probably wouldn't feel

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Speaker 3: like talking about it anymore. So I have a I

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Speaker 3: have thirteen years. I'm a thirteen year veteran of getting

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Speaker 3: kids outside messing around.

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Speaker 2: Okay, And I think that's that's pretty fair. But it

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Speaker 2: sounds like you still have days where you lack a

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Speaker 2: full expertise or confidence on the whole rest of the thing.

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Speaker 2: There's still questions for her some days.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, I like, you know, but my wife sent me

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Speaker 3: the their name of my wife sent me a clip

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Speaker 3: and it was from a guy. There's a clip from

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Speaker 3: Joe Rogan's show. I can't remember who the hell the

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Speaker 3: guest was. It was just like a little pullout clip

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Speaker 3: and the guy was talking about how frustrating it is

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Speaker 3: to have kids. And he was saying, in all your

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Speaker 3: interactions with your kids, imagine that you're eighty years old

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Speaker 3: and you're given in this moment, in this moment of

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Speaker 3: intense frustration, you're given a chance to go baack in

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Speaker 3: time and have this interaction at the end of your life,

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Speaker 3: you had a chance to go back and have this interaction,

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Speaker 3: how would you have it? Then? I don't have. All

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Speaker 3: of my interactions with my kids are not how I

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Speaker 3: would have them if I was eighty and got a

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Speaker 3: chance to go back and do it over again. I

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Speaker 3: I'm not successful in that because they're frust They're annoying

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Speaker 3: and frustrating. Yeah, my annoyance. So I could say I'm

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Speaker 3: getting way better at not getting so annoyed and frustrated

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Speaker 3: at my kids all the time. But if you mapped

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Speaker 3: my level of an annoyance and frustration on a chart

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Speaker 3: and had another line on the chart be how old

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Speaker 3: they were, you would find a very tight correlation, meaning

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Speaker 3: it just gets it gets easier. But I got I

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Speaker 3: got like my kids great, man, they're great. My annoyance

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Speaker 3: and frustration was all just physical stuff, right. It was

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Speaker 3: like the physical aspect of it, especially when you're outside.

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Speaker 3: It's just keeping people warm, keeping people dry, keeping people fed.

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Speaker 3: It it's hard, and then you run into this idea

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Speaker 3: of of and it's a It plagues a lot of guys,

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Speaker 3: a lot of guys, I know, and i'd be lying

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Speaker 3: up I said, I didn't feel it too. You're like, man,

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Speaker 3: we'd be getting a lot more stuff if these kids

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Speaker 3: weren't here, right, And yes, and that war is so

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Speaker 3: I recognize it as though, like it's the most valuable

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Speaker 3: thing I do. Like like if I had to whittle

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Speaker 3: away all aspects of if I had to pick one

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Speaker 3: thing and whittle away all their aspects of my life,

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Speaker 3: I would I would the one that would be standing

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Speaker 3: at the end of it all after I trimmed away

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Speaker 3: everything else that.

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Speaker 4: Would be standing with like be being with my kids.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, But but it's hard, and I'm not interested in

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Speaker 3: someone coming and telling me there's just some little trick

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Speaker 3: to escape, to escape every part of it that's so hard.

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Speaker 2: So speaking of this like parent child, uh, frustration or

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Speaker 2: challenge when you're trying to go outside and do these

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Speaker 2: kinds of things. I heard you say once that when

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Speaker 2: you thought back to the way your dad introduced you

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Speaker 2: and your brothers to the outside, you're shocked that it

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Speaker 2: didn't backfire and push you away from honeting and fishing

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Speaker 2: and make you not want to do it. What did

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Speaker 2: you mean by that? Can you expand on like what

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Speaker 2: that childhood, those experiences were that made you feel that way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember when I my mom still lives in

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Speaker 3: the house that I was brought up. And I've mentioned

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Speaker 3: this before in writing. My room was on the upstairs

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Speaker 3: of the house and there's a big like oak tree

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Speaker 3: out the window, and I remember waking on hunting days.

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Speaker 3: I remember waking up in the dark hoping to see

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Speaker 3: that tree blowing like hell and there to be to

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Speaker 3: be all wet with rain, because I'd be like, that way,

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Speaker 3: I don't have to go and it doesn't need to

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Speaker 3: be that. I bailed, Like if the old man called

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Speaker 3: it right, He's like that too windy and rainy, and

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Speaker 3: we're I canna go out. You don't have to get

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Speaker 3: a new tree stands. I'd have been like because the

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Speaker 3: last thing I was going to do was back out right.

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Speaker 3: And so it was like I felt the guilt about it,

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Speaker 3: you know when I've described this before, I said a

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Speaker 3: guilt about it that I imagine some people feel, like when

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Speaker 3: they don't go to church on Sunday, You're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I do anything to sleep in right, just be hungover? Man?

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Speaker 3: If I don't, you know, I feel so bad not

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Speaker 3: going to church, I break get up, and a lot

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Speaker 3: of times it was like that because there was not

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Speaker 3: a lot of attention paid to There's not a lot

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Speaker 3: of attention paid to comfort.

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Speaker 4: He was extremely demanding.

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Speaker 3: He was so uptight about gear maintenance, so uptight about

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Speaker 3: the boat being clean, ran around screaming at everybody all

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Speaker 3: the time. But man, you learned so much. And the

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Speaker 3: other part about it is that and this is the

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Speaker 3: thing that I look back like I used to most

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Speaker 3: of growing up. I looked at him like, what a

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Speaker 3: horrible like that? Yeah, it was horrible to be out

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Speaker 3: in the woods with. But to think about it, it

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Speaker 3: would have been a laughable notion. As rough as my

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Speaker 3: dad was, it would have been a laughable notion that

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Speaker 3: he'd be going hunting and fishing and you weren't invited

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Speaker 3: to go. There is no way, you know, out of

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Speaker 3: school day if you want to go, like, oh that's fine,

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Speaker 3: you need to go to school. You were invited. That

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Speaker 3: was a huge gift, man, And it came like that

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Speaker 3: was the gift.

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Speaker 4: The expense was that he was so harsh.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 4: He was a World War two veteran.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, by his own definition, he had been what they

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Speaker 3: called shell shocked at the time, you know, PTSD stuff.

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Speaker 3: He had been he he he had a very he

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Speaker 3: wasn't raised his parents didn't raised me. He was raised

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Speaker 3: by his grandparents. He had a all these reasons why.

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Speaker 4: He was the way it was. But yeah, he was

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Speaker 4: just very, very hard.

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Speaker 3: And and I and and and uh it's I look

291
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Speaker 3: back and it's funny that I wouldn't have just been well,

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Speaker 3: never mind, man, this isn't my lifestyle. But somehow the

293
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Speaker 3: quality of the experience overcame that. And I've tried to

294
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Speaker 3: really learn a lot from that. Like I I I

295
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Speaker 3: in the category of how I relate to my kids

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Speaker 3: and the friendships I have with my kids, Uh is

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Speaker 3: nowhere is so much better than what I got growing up.

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Speaker 3: And in fact, my dad would say, like, I'm not

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Speaker 3: here to be your friend.

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Speaker 2: How did you translate that experience then into the future

301
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Speaker 2: for yourself? Because I feel like I look back on

302
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Speaker 2: this kind of thing with my own childhood, and I

303
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Speaker 2: think back on all the things I would like to

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Speaker 2: do different. But then I also think to myself, well,

305
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Speaker 2: if he hadn't done this, then I wouldn't be like

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Speaker 2: I am today, or I wouldn't have developed this you know,

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Speaker 2: love for this thing the same way, or the importance

308
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Speaker 2: I place on certain aspects if it weren't for this

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Speaker 2: tough thing or this tough thing or this thing that

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Speaker 2: I didn't like so much back then. How have you

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Speaker 2: tried to balance taking the good from what your dad

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Speaker 2: brought to the table versus somehow realizing how to temper

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Speaker 2: some of the other edges or soften the edges or

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Speaker 2: maybe not.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a degree, and it's a point at

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Speaker 3: which you pay attention to something. I I this is

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Speaker 3: not a handful of times. I many times when I

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Speaker 3: was a little kid literally froze my fingertips with my dad. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I just don't like, I don't understand how I mean

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Speaker 3: coming back with hard tipped white fingertips.

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Speaker 4: Jeez, I don't let it like I would never let that.

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Speaker 4: I just don't let it.

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Speaker 3: Go that far, right, But I still push it, like

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Speaker 3: I want them to be uncomfortable. But the point at

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Speaker 3: which I'm like willing to sort of look at them

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Speaker 3: and express like a level of tenderness and concern for

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Speaker 3: how they're doing, it's just it's sooner. I'm just I'm

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Speaker 3: more empathetic, h I'm more empathetic than he was. There's

329
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Speaker 3: another thing at play, and just in the spirit of

330
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Speaker 3: like full honesty, there is a in getting your kids

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Speaker 3: into the outdoors. I'm not going to sit here and

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Speaker 3: tell you that it's l that it's not ell, it's

333
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 3: not entirely altruistic. Uh it. There are massive benefits of

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Speaker 3: the kids, and we can get into that. There's also

335
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,640
Speaker 3: a massive benefit to the parent if the parent wants

336
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,800
Speaker 3: to be outside right right now. I could have things

337
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 3: in my life that I'm into that don't believe are

338
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,879
Speaker 3: good for me. I don't believe they're good for me. Like,

339
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,119
Speaker 3: let's say, you know, I used to I used to

340
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Speaker 3: drink a fair a bit and like whoop it up

341
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,160
Speaker 3: my buddies back in college and grad school. Right, Uh,

342
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Speaker 3: I had a hell of a good time doing that.

343
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Speaker 3: Did I ever think that that was like good? Was ever?

344
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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 3: Man, I can't wait to introduce my kids binge drinking. No,

346
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 3: but I was like pretty invested in binge drinking once

347
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Speaker 3: upon a time. At the moment, it just happened all

348
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 3: the time, laugh our asses off all and have like

349
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 3: a great time and be stupid. But I don't, like,

350
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,159
Speaker 3: I didn't think, boy, when I can do this with

351
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,680
Speaker 3: my children, That'll be phenomenal. Right. I recognize that's a thing,

352
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 3: it's overwhelmingly negative, but it's the thing I engage in

353
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 3: with the outdoors. I love it way more than I

354
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 3: ever loved that, and I want to be out there

355
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,919
Speaker 3: and I think that it's great for the kids. But

356
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,919
Speaker 3: in getting the kids into it, I am servicing my

357
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 3: own desires as well. I just I think it's really

358
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Speaker 3: important to point out that there's a big selfish part

359
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 3: of it because that's where I want to be. And

360
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 3: I could rationalize this in a hundred ways. I could say,

361
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:54,680
Speaker 3: I want it's important for my kids to see passion,

362
00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:00,199
Speaker 3: to see commitment, to see expertise. Right, it's important for

363
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 3: me for it's important to me that they witness that,

364
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 3: and that they witness a role.

365
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 4: Model of theirs, their dad a role model of theirs.

366
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:13,880
Speaker 3: Being very engaged, being an advocate for what he loves, right,

367
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 3: rather than them witnessing a household full of apathy. I

368
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 3: kind of watch TV, But do I really care about TV? No,

369
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 3: I'm just watching it, right, Like I sort of begrudgingly

370
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,640
Speaker 3: clean the house, and they get to watch me begrudgingly

371
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 3: clean the house. I don't know how you're what you're

372
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 3: teaching them about how to live a passionate, engaged life

373
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Speaker 3: if you're not showing them what it looks like. But

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Speaker 3: that's all very logical, and it rationalizes the fact that

375
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Speaker 3: that's where I want to be too.

376
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Speaker 4: So I'm servicing them an it.

377
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Speaker 3: And I'm sure that my dad had that element of dedication.

378
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 3: I know he did. He had a dedication to fans,

379
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 3: and he had a dedication to the outdoors. He wanted

380
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 3: to be outside. He knew his role to his kids,

381
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,679
Speaker 3: and so the thing he had to do is He's like,

382
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 3: I gotta do that. I got to bring the kids

383
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 3: with me. And I don't mind showing them now and

384
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,400
Speaker 3: then that that I'm.

385
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 4: Not entirely happy about their presence here.

386
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 3: And and I've really tried to switch that around and

387
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 3: be more aware of being more aware of that that

388
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:37,360
Speaker 3: I am asking something of them, right, I'm they're accompanying

389
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Speaker 3: me to do a thing I love.

390
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 4: I hope that they love it too.

391
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Speaker 3: But they're in some way doing me, They're in some

392
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,959
Speaker 3: way indulging me, They're in some way doing me a

393
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 3: favor to engage in the thing that I love. I

394
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 3: hope it becomes infectious. But it's a give and take.

395
00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 3: You're giving them parenting, you're giving them fathering. They're giving

396
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 3: you their days, right, and I think trying to be

397
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 3: aware of that is really helpful. I don't think these

398
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 3: are things that occurred to my dad.

399
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. So so along those lines, you want this for them,

400
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 2: You want them to enjoy that, enjoy this. You want

401
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: them to join you out there, you want to be

402
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 2: out there. I think there's this risk sometimes, or I

403
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 2: wonder about this risk of wanting it all too bad.

404
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: You want them to feel the same way you feel.

405
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 2: You want them to have the same experience as you had.

406
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 2: You want them to get the turkey so damn bad.

407
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 2: Do you ever worry about that kind of sports dad

408
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 2: thing happening where you know, the dad wants his son

409
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 2: to be so good, or he wants his son to

410
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 2: get the thing you know just right, that you end

411
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 2: up pushing them away from it, or because you're so

412
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 2: into it, it drives them away and they want something

413
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 2: different than what their dad wants for them. Has that

414
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 2: been something you've you've thought about? Have you seen that

415
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: at all? How do you deal with that?

416
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think about all the time, and here's where

417
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 3: I here's where I kind of here's where I land

418
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 3: on it.

419
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 4: I push them pretty hard, and I push him for.

420
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 3: Success. We have a little fishing me and some family

421
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 3: members on a fish and shack in Alaska, and I

422
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 3: take my kids up there for a couple of weeks

423
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 3: in summer. If it was up to if they ran

424
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 3: the program, we would never leave the beach because they

425
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 3: would just be like messing around with clams and stuff

426
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: and messing around on a rope swing and we'd never

427
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 3: leave the beach.

428
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 4: They'd never be in a boat.

429
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 3: To see, you know, a seventy pound halb that come

430
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 3: out of the water and harpooning it and drag it

431
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 3: up in the boat. They wouldn't see it if someone

432
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 3: wasn't leaning on them heavy. So in pushing them, I'm

433
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 3: pushing them because I part of it. And again, just

434
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 3: I want to be I want to maintain. I want

435
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 3: to say one more time that I'm gonna stop saying it.

436
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 3: I want to catch fish. Okay, I personally need want

437
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 3: to catch fish. So I'm just let's not forget that detail.

438
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 3: That's what I like, right, Why do I think it's

439
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 3: great for the kids? Because I think that for them

440
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: to see this thing playout of having a goal, making

441
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 3: a plan about how you're going to do it, executing

442
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 3: on the plan, overcoming hardship, sticking with it, and then

443
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 3: out of like this murky depth comes this insane fish

444
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 3: you know, that you drag up into a boat and

445
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 3: then eat halibut nuggets off of for the next year

446
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 3: is like a huge payoff. And if I got to

447
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 3: pull them by the ear figuratively, if I need to

448
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 3: drag them by the ear into that discovery, I think

449
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 3: it's worth it because that is so cool to witness.

450
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 3: The reason there's the reason I know that that I

451
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 3: have an like a somewhat imperfect approach to it is

452
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 3: I catch myself being much more severe with my older

453
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 3: boy than I am with my daughter, but I get

454
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 3: the same end result, right, so where they're really both

455
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 3: like really excited about being outdoors.

456
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 4: They love hunting and fishing.

457
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 3: So I have a severe version with my son, and

458
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 3: it comes from just how I picture father son relationships

459
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 3: to be and things that were adopted by me subconsciously perhaps,

460
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 3: And I'm much kinder and gentler with my daughter, but

461
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 3: she's got an equal drive to be successful. So I

462
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 3: think that maybe I don't have the perfect way to

463
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 3: do it, but I'm not shy about I'm not shy

464
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 3: about leaning on them real heavy.

465
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 4: Gun safety is one thing.

466
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 3: I overreact around issues of gun safety because they got

467
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 3: to know it right. And on issues of technique, yeah,

468
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 3: like I push really hard. There's right ways and wrong

469
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 3: ways to do stuff, and they'll say like, well, let

470
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: me see the turkey call. I'm like, not here, you

471
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 3: practice you anytime you want, We'll practice at home. You're

472
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 3: not touching it right now.

473
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been there. I've seen this.

474
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 3: Right. And you're like, why am I That's like not cool?

475
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 3: You think, like, if you're the coolest dad in the world,

476
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 3: would you just hand it to him and let him

477
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 3: wail away. I'm like, well no, because when I'm really

478
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 3: trying to show him is how awesome it is to

479
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 3: having yeah strutter standing twenty yards away. That's cool. They

480
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 3: think mess them with the turkey calls. They don't even

481
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 3: know cool until this turkey shows up. So you're like,

482
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 3: you're denying.

483
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 4: I don't want to call them impulses.

484
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 3: You're stealing from them little moments that they'd like to

485
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 3: have in service of like the real crazy moments, they're

486
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 3: going to change their lives.

487
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. So many people talk about how you got to

488
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 2: keep it fun, you got to keep it light, You've

489
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 2: got to stay on their schedule with their priorities first.

490
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: And I think what I'm hearing from you is that

491
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: sometimes we as the parent, know that the tougher path,

492
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: if we were to follow it, will lead to a

493
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: longer term win. It'll lead to a longer term satisfaction.

494
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 2: If they can push through this, if they can listen

495
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 2: to me on this, if they can get to the

496
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: point where the strutter shows up, or if they can

497
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: make it through the shitty cold or any day and

498
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: see you know, the results of it, that will actually

499
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: be more valuable in the long run than having three

500
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: outings where they had suckers and andy bars and came

501
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 2: home after fifty minutes.

502
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

503
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,239
Speaker 4: And we're talking about evolving organisms here, right.

504
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 3: I mean, these things they get older, so you're you're

505
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 3: you're fine tuning it to what they're capable of early on,

506
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 3: early on, getting your kids involved in nature and getting

507
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 3: them into hunting and fishing early on when they're two,

508
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 3: is going out and rolling rotten logs out of the ground.

509
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 3: Ye right, yep, that's it. It's like lesson number one,

510
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: and you can't pound it into them. You can't yell

511
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,479
Speaker 3: at them about technique. It's like you go out, take

512
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 3: a rotten log, roll it out and pick up the

513
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 3: stuff underneath it.

514
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 4: Less number one.

515
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 3: Don't be afraid of anything, Yeah, unless it really warrants

516
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 3: being afraid of. Guarter snake, pick it up, bull snake,

517
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 3: pick it up, rattlesnake. Don't touch it sending a piece.

518
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: Let them wash. Watch across your hand, beehives, watch out,

519
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 3: ants pick them up. You know.

520
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 4: It's like worms. Every worm possible goes in your hand.

521
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 3: And that's just there's no there's no like bullying, dragging

522
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 3: by the ear, conjoling.

523
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 4: It's just presenting. It's just presenting experience.

524
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 2: And what age shift for you? With the boy with

525
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 2: the kids start to interrupt? But at what point did

526
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: it shift from that to the next phase?

527
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 3: I started getting My eight year old, he's just about

528
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 3: to get into uh, he's just about to get into

529
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 3: where he's gonna get leaned down a lot more heavy.

530
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 3: My thirteen year old.

531
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 4: It's no holds barred.

532
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 2: Yep, he's just another one of the guys.

533
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 3: Right he at his age right now, the expectation is

534
00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 3: that it's like, the expectation is high that get a

535
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 3: string it. If you have a problem with the not

536
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 3: let me know, but like, I'm gonna look at you

537
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 3: in an annoyed way if you come to me to

538
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 3: tie that thing on again. Yeah, if you're gonna tell

539
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 3: me you need help taking that fish off the hook,

540
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 3: I'm gonna really look at you, like really, Yeah, it's

541
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 3: high expectations right now, my eight year old, I'm still

542
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 3: really willing to indulge and do some hand holding. But

543
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: where I'm not willing to indulge is I'm not gonna

544
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: go out there and come back home in thirty minutes.

545
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

546
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 3: And he came out turkey hunting with us this year.

547
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 4: He wasn't first up, but he was. He was there

548
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 4: all morning.

549
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 3: He kept telling me he was gonna throw up, and

550
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 3: I finally started taking him serious when he got real pale.

551
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 3: And then he threw up before we could get back

552
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 3: to my buddy's house, and I was like, wow, he

553
00:31:53,960 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 3: really he really didn't He really didn't feel good. Well

554
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 3: I felt a little bit about that, But you know

555
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, I'm like, like I I I they're not.

556
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 3: I don't. At eight, they're definitely not running the show.

557
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 3: But but and this is very you know, this is

558
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 3: as you know, this is highly variable. Like one, you

559
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 3: know one kid from the next I was just I

560
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 3: have a friend of mine I just spend some time with.

561
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: And he's a spearfishing guide, fishing guide.

562
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 4: He's got a nine year old boy, and in certain areas,

563
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 4: I was, I wash he's very diract, very diract, and

564
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 4: his kid is incredibly competent.

565
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 3: And his kid is eat and breathe like fishing all

566
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 3: that kid wants to do. Okay, So this guy, his

567
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 3: name's Cam. He he recognizes that there's no ruin it

568
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 3: with this kid.

569
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 4: You're not going to push him too hard because he's

570
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 4: all in.

571
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 3: This is he this is his life, this will be

572
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 3: his life. And he's very competent. And at that age

573
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 3: nine years old, his dad talks to him like a peer.

574
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 3: Get this, get that, get down off that thing, put

575
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:20,479
Speaker 3: your son's screen on. There's like zero assistance. It's so funny.

576
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 3: It's like direct orders. But this kid's bought in, dude.

577
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 3: So he's not in a state of kind of being

578
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 3: like he's not in a state where he might be like,

579
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 3: We're like, man, I can't tell him, I am I

580
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 3: not doing this right? Am I ruining something? You know?

581
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 3: Maybe I should adjust my approach, Like if you get

582
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 3: where I haven't had this problem yet, but if I had,

583
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 3: if one of my children just got to where they

584
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 3: didn't they didn't have fun, they weren't liking it, they

585
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 3: were trying to they were avoiding it. You know, by

586
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 3: the time they got to be ten years old, twelve

587
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 3: years old and they weren't into it, I would probably

588
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 3: at that point, honestly, I would really probably reconsider my

589
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 3: approach a six year old I'm not interested in what

590
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 3: they want to do. Yeah, yeah, Well, when we make

591
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 3: plans even now, if we're gonna go camp for the weekend,

592
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 3: even at our kids ages eight, ten, thirteen, if we're

593
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 3: going camp for the weekend, the last thing I'm gonna

594
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 3: do is ask them, you know, say, hey, this is

595
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,919
Speaker 3: what's happening this weekend. Now, I'll give you a ton

596
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 3: of latitude within that to do what you'd like to do.

597
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 3: But that's what's happening this weekend. If you want to go,

598
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 3: bring your friend, that's fine. If you want to bring

599
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 3: your hammock or bring whatever or card games whatever.

600
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 4: That's great, But the basics are we're going camping.

601
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 3: Within that, I'm gonna give you as much room to

602
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 3: customize the situation as you'd like. But that's happening.

603
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Yeah, that that framework.

604
00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 3: People yep, And I see people give that up, and yeah,

605
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't. I don't ever want to criticize

606
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 3: other families. I got families that I got. I know

607
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 3: families that raise kids and skyrise apartments in big cities

608
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 3: and they have just absolutely fantastic, wonderful, loving, kind, curious kids.

609
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 3: There's a lot of ways to skin a cat. Uh.

610
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 3: I would never say there's not, but uh, that's those parents.

611
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 3: That's not their life, right the way it's my life.

612
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 3: And so since this is my life, I I need

613
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 3: to I want to manipulate the situation to create a

614
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: livable experience for everybody.

615
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so much of what I've you know,

616
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 2: read from you or heard from you talk about when

617
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 2: it comes to your kids and the outdoors, is you

618
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 2: using these outdoor experiences as a classroom for teaching many

619
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 2: different kinds of life lessons. Absolutely, And one of the

620
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 2: things that I think you've approached in some of your

621
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 2: you know, in the book Outdoor Kids, Inside World and

622
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 2: some of the other podcasts. I've heard things you've talked

623
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: about risk and the outside, hunting, fishing, whatever it might

624
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 2: be as as an opportunity to teach kids about how

625
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: to assess risk. But I'm also curious about how you,

626
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: as the parent, assess risk when adventuring outside with your kids,

627
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 2: because that's something I've started thinking a lot about too.

628
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, I want to plan a backpacking trip

629
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 2: with my boys, or I'm going to do a float

630
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: trip with the boys, And how do I think about

631
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 2: the risk of taking them on this adventure while also

632
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: teaching them about how to assess risk themselves. How have

633
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: you thought about that yourself with your kids and how

634
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: has that evolved over time.

635
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 3: I want to start out by answering this question by

636
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 3: saying this, you want to know what's landed our kids

637
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 3: in emergency rooms? Uh uh? Swing sets, scooters, legos Okay, yeah, uh.

638
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 3: As much as it's perceived and my wife and I

639
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 3: laugh about this, as much as it's perceived by her

640
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 3: that we're engaged in all these dangerous activities, there's no

641
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 3: to date, there's no evidence to back this up.

642
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, not gonna would, right.

643
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 3: She bought, she bought the kids of swing set. Dude, wasn't.

644
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 3: Twenty four hours later we got a broken arm. I'm

645
00:37:49,840 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 3: not kidding you, just like that. Yeah, so so uh

646
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: I am more. If you were to go and take

647
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 3: out of the man, let's say you're gonna go randomly

648
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 3: pull a hundred You're gonna go randomly pull a hundred

649
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 3: parents off the street, one hundred American parents off the street,

650
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 3: and rank us in terms of risk tolerance outdoor risk tolerance.

651
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:31,439
Speaker 3: I would probably sit with the least risk tolerant at

652
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 3: one and the most risk tolerant at one hundred, meaning

653
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 3: one can't go outside because you're gonna get bit by

654
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 3: a tick or mosquitos to stand inside all day every day.

655
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 3: One hundred being hey kids, we're gonna climb K two.

656
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 3: I'm in the nineties, low nineties. You're up there, I'm

657
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 3: up there. What I have? This is gonna sound I

658
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 3: don't want to sound. I hope this doesn't sound arrogant

659
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 3: in some way. But I just have a like for

660
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 3: a long time, just because I was dedicated to it,

661
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 3: and now because of just a lot of professional experience

662
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 3: I have. I just have enjoyed in existence of having

663
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 3: a lot of exposure to stuff. So I have developed

664
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 3: a really good understanding of what actually matters and what

665
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 3: doesn't actually matter. Meaning I don't think this is to

666
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 3: take an example that people would be able to relate

667
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 3: to Mountain lions don't matter. They don't warrant any consideration.

668
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 3: Black bears don't matter. They don't warrant any consideration. Tics. Okay,

669
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 3: stick cary pathogens warrant considerations. Ticks that don't carry pathogens

670
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 3: don't really warrant considerations, right, Like, I have a really

671
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 3: detailed sense from exposure and from being able to hang

672
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 3: out a lot, I have a detailed sense of like

673
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 3: what matters and what doesn't matter. Yep, being in being

674
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 3: in small boats at certain water temperatures matters a lot

675
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 3: more than other water temperatures. Right. So, so so someone

676
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 3: looking might be like, oh my god, that seems like

677
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 3: dangerous or I can't you know, And I'm like, explain

678
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 3: how you explain why you think that? Because I, like,

679
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 3: I don't agree. I don't agree. I don't think it's dangerous.

680
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 3: I think that factors could be a little different and

681
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 3: it can be real dangerous. But I don't agree that

682
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 3: this is dangerous because you can't point to me what is.

683
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 3: You can't point to me the high probability of something

684
00:40:59,160 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 3: that's gonna happen.

685
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: So much of it comes down to your, like you said,

686
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: your level of competence and context, right, I mean if

687
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 2: you if someone took you off the mountain in Montana

688
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 2: and sends you, I don't know, downtown Paris or something

689
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 2: and said, all right, teach your kids how to I

690
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: don't know, ride a unicycle down this busy street. Well,

691
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 2: that'd be pretty risky for you. But maybe there's this

692
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 2: is a horrible example, but maybe there's a circus worker

693
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 2: in Paris who does that every day, and he'd be like, Nope,

694
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 2: this is easy for me. This is something I understand.

695
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 2: This is the world I live in. And in that case,

696
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 2: you know, it varies depending on where you come from,

697
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 2: what your skill set is, what your competence is in

698
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 2: that situation, and so so I understand your point.

699
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, we we hang out a lot, like we spend

700
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 3: a lot of time in Grizzly Country, and there are

701
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 3: times in grizzly Country. There are times when I'm on

702
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 3: high alert. There are times when someone will be like,

703
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 3: think that you had your guard down. Is it we're

704
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 3: just getting up in the morning and they're coming out

705
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 3: of their camp, out of the camp or in the

706
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 3: early morning. That matters to me? Is it that it's

707
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 3: the afternoon and their dog is out playing with them

708
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 3: and we've all been out making tons of racket and

709
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 3: the dog is like very tuned into stuff like that,

710
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 3: and the dog has covered every square inch of ground

711
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 3: within three hundred yards. My attitude is different because I'm

712
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 3: just like weighing all the stuff that's going on. Also,

713
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 3: I'm looking at like, look what kind of injury? You know.

714
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,439
Speaker 3: I encourage my kids to climb trees because I don't

715
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 3: think they're gonna They're not gonna, I mean they could,

716
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 3: They're not gonna fall out a tree and die. Probably

717
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 3: they might fall out a tree and break your arm,

718
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 3: but they break you. Already broke his arm out of

719
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 3: swing set, so like, I'm not I can live with

720
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 3: a broken arm. My kid had lime disease. I couldn't

721
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 3: live with that. That was hard. That caused a lot

722
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 3: of guilt, and it caused a lot of concern for

723
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 3: his well being, and it was some of the worst

724
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 3: weeks of my life. Okay, So I just have a

725
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 3: I feel that it's important for people to develop a calibrated,

726
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 3: a finely calibrated sense of risk. I talk a lot

727
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 3: about this in Outdoor Kids in an inside world is

728
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 3: just getting educated enough to understand what matters and what

729
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 3: doesn't matter.

730
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: So, speaking of some of these things in Outdoor Kids

731
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: and inside world, there's another, I guess another one of

732
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 2: these lessons that stood out to me, and this you

733
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 2: wrote about kind of this relationship to nature that we

734
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 2: are trying to help foster with our children, and that

735
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 2: can come from hunting or fishing or many different things.

736
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: But you talked about this really interesting concept of looking

737
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 2: down at nature versus looking up at nature, and it

738
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 2: seemed to me that that your belief is that we

739
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 2: ought to try to help our children understand to live

740
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: somewhere in between. Can you can you span on that?

741
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 2: Can you explain what you mean by that and why

742
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 2: that matters as we are trying to introduce our kids

743
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 2: to these things.

744
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, looking down at nature, I talk about looking down

745
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 3: at it, looking up at it, and be an eye level.

746
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 3: Looking down at nature is very easy to explain it's

747
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 3: it's the idea that everything's gross and dangerous. Okay, you

748
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 3: are in outside of something like maybe like some kind

749
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 3: of like a cute iraq and aphobia or things like that.

750
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 3: You're in the driver's seat on whether your kids think

751
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: that everything's gross and dangerous, they're just they're absorbing it

752
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 3: from you. There's individual personality at play, but by and large,

753
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 3: your kids if you think nature is gross and and

754
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 3: they're gonna absorb that, you don't need to even say it.

755
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 3: Your body landlang, which tells them being dirty is bad.

756
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 3: Looking up at nature is something much more modern. The

757
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 3: peril of looking down at nature is that you disregard

758
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 3: it and disrespect it, and would just as soon do

759
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 3: away with it. I'm thinking of a common practice where

760
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 3: I grew up, of going down to the beach and

761
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 3: buying a bunch of sand, trucking a bunch of sand,

762
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 3: and taking around up and killing off every bit of

763
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 3: vegetation along the beach, dumping a bunch of sand down,

764
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 3: and then knowing you've vanquished everything slimy or crawley, you

765
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 3: can finally sit down in your chair and enjoy your day. Right,

766
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 3: It's like looking down at it, looking up at it,

767
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 3: like I said, is newer. And this is this idea

768
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 3: that nature is so pure and pristine that human presence

769
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 3: spoils it. That you know, I live not far from

770
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 3: Yellowstone Park. Could be that you'd go to Yellowstone and

771
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 3: anything beyond looking out your window is spoiling the landscape.

772
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 4: Humans are bad. Were the ones that are gross, Were

773
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 4: the ones that are dirty? Were the ones that foul everything?

774
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 4: And it can create a where nature has an otherness

775
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 4: and it lacks relevance in one's life. Where you imagine

776
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 4: there's nature that sits separately from human existence and that

777
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 4: the two are incompatible, and that creates a sensibility that

778
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 4: that in and around us, in our living spaces and

779
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 4: our yards and things, that we're not regarding these as a.

780
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 3: Compromise between us and nature. I would much rather have

781
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 3: my kids understand that there is a way to engage

782
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 3: explit like, explicitly engage with nature in a hands on

783
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 3: way that is productive for them and is productive for

784
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 3: the natural world, because any other perspective is ridiculous. In

785
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 3: this world today, there is no putting the genie back

786
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 3: into the bottle. This is a human We live in

787
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 3: a human engineered human manipulated ecosystem We live in human engineered,

788
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 3: human manipulated ecosystems. There is no having a world in

789
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 3: which nature sits outside of us. Most landscapes that we

790
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:34,919
Speaker 3: live on are already massively impacted by humans. It will

791
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 3: take it's human impact that will restore them and make

792
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 3: them better. In our yard, in our yard, in the

793
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 3: areas around our yard. It's like improvements to nature inviting nature.

794
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 3: Interactions come from hand on, hands on involvement. Yeah, And

795
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 3: so I want them to under stand that their actions

796
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 3: have impact. Right that you can make a brush pile,

797
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 3: And we did this last fall. I was like, I

798
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 3: bet you if we made a brush power right here,

799
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 3: rabbits can move in and live in this brush pile.

800
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 3: We made a brush pile. A rabbit moved in and

801
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 3: lived in that brush pile.

802
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

803
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 3: They couldn't believe it. They ate all all the sticks

804
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 3: we put ate, all the bark all year off the

805
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 3: sticks we put down in there. And and that is

806
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 3: hands on relationship to nature, right, Like they have power

807
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,760
Speaker 3: to do good and they have power to do bad.

808
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 3: And that I think is like trying to demonstrate that

809
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 3: like nature at eye level.

810
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 2: So kind of taking that next step. You you also

811
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 2: talk about the idea of thinking native and helping your

812
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 2: kids understand that, as you just said, that we are

813
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 2: a part of this natural world, not outside of it,

814
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 2: and the next step. In my mind, a lot of

815
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 2: times when I'm thinking about out there doing stuff with

816
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 2: my kids, right shoot a buck and the kids come

817
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 2: help me track it down and they're seeing it, I

818
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 2: constantly am thinking about how do I, or should I,

819
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 2: or when should I be connecting the dots between just

820
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 2: the hunting or fishing activity and then the conservation context.

821
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 2: You know, when I grew up, When I grew up,

822
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 2: I just did the things. We just did it. We hunted,

823
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: we fished. I was taught to love it, I was

824
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,720
Speaker 2: taught to respect it. But I never once heard about

825
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,919
Speaker 2: public land or how we got it. I never once

826
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,879
Speaker 2: heard about the Pittman Robertson that. I never once heard

827
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: about the fact that we need to advocate for these things.

828
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 2: That wasn't something I learned about till I was an adult.

829
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 2: And so I wonder, now, you know, when should I

830
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: start introducing those things, or if I do it too early,

831
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 2: am I going to overwhelm them or stamp out the

832
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,919
Speaker 2: fun of it because I'm trying to teach too much.

833
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 2: How have you thought about that, Steve, as far as

834
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 2: taking that next step and understanding how we have these

835
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,240
Speaker 2: things and how we keep them around.

836
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 3: I was brought up the same way. Uh we lived

837
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 3: by and uh we live by and use the national

838
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 3: forest that that that you ask anybody that lived in

839
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 3: that area, the best explanation they could give you is

840
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:28,399
Speaker 3: that it fell from the sky. I was raised hunting ducks.

841
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 3: I was never told that ducks were nearly wiped out.

842
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 3: I was raised hunting deer. I was never told the

843
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 3: stories about when you couldn't find a deer track in

844
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 3: that area. Uh. I don't know why. There's they're extremely important.

845
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 3: I think that that stuff that's where. That's where the

846
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,879
Speaker 3: dinner table, that's where being in the car driving down

847
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 3: the road. That's where the books that you leave out

848
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 3: for them, the books you read for them at night,

849
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 3: that's where that stuff plays in. It plays out in

850
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 3: the field too, But that's just baked into everyday life.

851
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:09,879
Speaker 3: My kids are not gonna remember, like they probably still

852
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 3: couldn't tell it to you since the day they've been born.

853
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 3: I don't care where we're at and we've lived in

854
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 3: a handful of places. I always will say, if you

855
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 3: pour a cup of water out in your yard, you

856
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 3: take a leak in the yard, here's the path by

857
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 3: which that water would go to the ocean. Right, it

858
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 3: would go into like this creek, and it would flow

859
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 3: into that creek, and it'd flow into that river, and

860
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 3: that river had flown into that river, and that river

861
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 3: would pick that river up and that's where that would

862
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 3: wind up. And we were one time on vacation, right,

863
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 3: Like I'm always pounding that stuff into them, but I

864
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 3: just it's it's it's infused everywhere. It's like I and

865
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 3: I talked about well with our activity book Catch a Crayfish,

866
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 3: Count Stars, the one of that that's coming out as soon.

867
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 3: It's meant like more four kids. It's not about kids,

868
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 3: but it's four kids. We have a lot of stuff

869
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 3: about in the home, right and how to like bring

870
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 3: nature in the home. I talk about the same thing

871
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 3: and outdoor kids in an inside the world is this

872
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 3: how do you create a home environment where these kind

873
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:14,760
Speaker 3: of things are.

874
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 4: Are are are part of.

875
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 3: It, And it's the books you read, the conversations you have.

876
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 3: One of the beauties of hunting and fishing for your food.

877
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 3: Is that that's what we eat. We eat wild game

878
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 3: at our house when we're at home. You know, we

879
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 3: go to restaurants, right and don't. But when we're home,

880
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,879
Speaker 3: we're really strict about it. And when we're eating something,

881
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 3: we're talking about it, right, We're not, we're not. We're

882
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 3: probably not talking about how you get it. We're not

883
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 3: talking about how you get a deer. We're probably talking

884
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 3: about deer, the history of deer, yea, how people utilize

885
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 3: deer historically, just all those narratives, right, And it's and

886
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,399
Speaker 3: again it's it's it's the stuff I like to learn about,

887
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 3: and it's the stuff I like to talk about it.

888
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 4: But they're they're all of their world is framed to

889
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 4: include all of that information, all of the context. I

890
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 4: didn't start personally finding out about this stuff untils in

891
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 4: my twenties.

892
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 3: I'm not making that mistake of my kids. And I

893
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 3: don't want to say my dad made a mistake. This

894
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 3: wasn't on his radar. But conservation history and natural history

895
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 3: and that the moon does this and the sun does that,

896
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,720
Speaker 3: that's just baked in. That's every day. Yeah, a little

897
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 3: snippet every day.

898
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 2: Yep, So you mentioned Ketch a Crayfish new book coming

899
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 2: out June thirteenth. You mentioned it's it's four kids, not

900
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 2: about kids, But can you elaborate a little bit, you know,

901
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:51,720
Speaker 2: why this book?

902
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 3: Now?

903
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 2: Why did you decide that this was the next thing?

904
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:57,879
Speaker 2: And what age do you feel like this is kind

905
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 2: of geared towards what do you hope comes out of someone,

906
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 2: some kids, some boy or girl getting this book for

907
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 2: their birthday and opening up the pages.

908
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 4: We started to conceive of it.

909
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 3: We started to conceive of the kids Activity book while

910
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 3: I was working on Outdoor Kids in the Inside World,

911
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 3: where Outdoor Kids in the Inside World was sort of

912
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 3: like a parent you know, it's me. It's it's largely essayistic,

913
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 3: but it's structured around themes about experiences and experiences and

914
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 3: advice and other things about how to get your kids outdoors.

915
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 3: And the book is also like a sympathetic ear to

916
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,879
Speaker 3: the struggles that people encounter how to overcome those struggles.

917
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 3: While we're doing it, we thought like it would be

918
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 3: really cool to do a book that made.

919
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 4: Some of those same learnings real meaning.

920
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 3: And Outdoor Kids and Inside World there's a chat after

921
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 3: on how to approach having a garden and catch a

922
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 3: carry fish, count stars, which is the So let's let's

923
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,360
Speaker 3: imagine it as the kid's hands on version of this.

924
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 4: There's a lot of projects around gardening, okay.

925
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 3: The the Kid's Activity Book. I think that if you know,

926
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 3: someone might look at that book and think that it

927
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 3: was seemed to have a lot of like, uh, seemed

928
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 3: to have a lot of different kind of weapons and

929
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 3: dangerous stuff in it, you know, and it really does,

930
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 3: like how to make a bow, how to make a

931
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 3: blow gun, how to how to sneak up on stuff

932
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 3: and build blinds and and all this kind of stuff.

933
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, my five year old picked up on that blowgun

934
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 2: picture real quick. Oh he saw that immediately said we

935
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:51,439
Speaker 2: need to make one of those dead.

936
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 3: Oh. Yeah, and I learned that, I say, I think

937
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 3: I mentioned in there that I learned later or while working,

938
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 3: uh that there's states where it's actually illegal to make

939
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 3: a book, and they don't define it very clearly either.

940
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 3: So it's funny, but.

941
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:11,399
Speaker 4: Uh, it's like.

942
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 3: It's hands on stuff that you need to dig in

943
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:19,879
Speaker 3: and you need to get into it and find out

944
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 3: what your kids are going to need help with and

945
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 3: what your kids are going to be able to safely

946
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 3: do on their own. But it's it's meant for projects

947
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 3: that are going to increase competency, build risk assessment capabilities, dexterity,

948
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 3: environmental awareness. Okay, so things around basics, around celestial navigation,

949
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 3: basics around little survival skills that are built into projects

950
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 3: kids can do, based around uh, outdoor ingenuity. Okay. So

951
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 3: it's like when I looked at it, I was looking

952
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 3: at if you let's say you're someone like you and me, Mark,

953
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 3: and you know that you're going to put a high

954
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 3: priority on being outdoors with your kids. It's a lot

955
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 3: of the stuff that that you want to get around,

956
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 3: you want to get around to teaching them and they'd

957
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 3: be great if they knew, and it puts in the

958
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 3: way that they can just tackle it and do a

959
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 3: thing a day, a thing a week, spend their summer

960
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 3: working on it. Some of it's and all of it's

961
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 3: like pretty rewarding and pretty fun. And there's those things

962
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 3: in there like, uh, you know, there's there's tool use

963
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:46,439
Speaker 3: where you're gonna need to get involved. There's things where

964
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 3: you you know, a machete or a hatchet would be helpful,

965
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 3: or you're gonna need your parents to help you drill

966
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 3: some holes and stuff, or you're going to make a

967
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 3: blowgun and need to set up a target and talk

968
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 3: real seriously about what that blowgun should be used for

969
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 3: not used for, And and and also understanding like issues

970
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 3: around risk assessment, understanding how to like produce your own food,

971
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 3: how to produce food and cook something for your for

972
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 3: your siblings and your parent. Right so sell things that

973
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 3: generate self sufficiency, situational awareness, outdoor expertise.

974
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 4: And even though you might look and be like, oh, it.

975
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 3: Seems that some of this stuff is dangerous, I would

976
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 3: look at it too like a lot of this stuff

977
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 3: drives ultimately safety because it creates expertise and a skill

978
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 3: set where you're learning with guidance how to do stuff right,

979
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 3: how to whittle, how to drill holes, how to be

980
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 3: around a campfire, so that in a supervised sense, a

981
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 3: kid can pick up some good know how. And then

982
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 3: if you see, like if I do, if I tell

983
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 3: my kids to go out and make a fire in

984
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 3: the fire pit at all of their ages, I know

985
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 3: that they can go out and do that mat and

986
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 3: they know the rules, because at some point they're gonna

987
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 3: want to do it, and you could have taken that

988
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 3: chance when they were young to teach them like how

989
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 3: to do it?

990
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:17,919
Speaker 4: What are the risks? How do you mitigate for those risks?

991
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 4: How do you do it properly?

992
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 3: Or you just leave it hanging h right until they're

993
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 3: all enough to be out on their own doing stupid stuff.

994
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think I think it makes a lot

995
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 2: of sense getting mad. I've always thought, with so many things,

996
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 2: the earlier the better to establish those foundations and to

997
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 2: get that experience, and to build up to the point

998
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:38,919
Speaker 2: where they can you know, I'd much rather than figure

999
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 2: this stuff out now while I'm here with them than

1000
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 2: when they're sixteen on their own with their buddies. Another thing,

1001
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 2: another thing I noticed when I was just looking through

1002
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 2: the book and looking through it with my kids was

1003
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:55,439
Speaker 2: just how many things as as as someone whose life

1004
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 2: is outside right, I mean, we're constantly doing these outdoor things.

1005
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 2: There's so many different little projects that I just take

1006
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 2: for granted now that I just never even think about.

1007
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 2: But actually, if I were to take the time and

1008
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 2: slow down and talk about this with one of my sons,

1009
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 2: there would be real value, Like walking in a straight

1010
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 2: line through the woods, like something as simple as that

1011
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 2: we just do all the time. But actually, you know,

1012
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 2: calling out in the book here like you did, and

1013
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 2: talking about well, how do you do that? How do

1014
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 2: you use landmarks? How do you navigate? You know, there's

1015
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 2: there's real value in or just little things that you know.

1016
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 2: One of the things we did just the other day

1017
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 2: after taking a look of the book, was we found

1018
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 2: an alpellet and dissected it and it was just a

1019
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 2: great reminder like, oh yeah, these things are sitting around

1020
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 2: and they are pretty darn cool if you take some time,

1021
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 2: oh yeah, to do it with your cast and so

1022
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 2: and so. Yeah, me and the two boys, the three

1023
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 2: year old in the five are were picking apart regurgitated

1024
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 2: mouse and had a blast with it.

1025
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 3: You know, my kids every year spent a couple few

1026
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 3: days my friend dog at his farm.

1027
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 5: And dog likes to say that's life and death on

1028
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 5: the fire, you know, I think the looking at owl palaces,

1029
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 5: like that's life and death in the woods.

1030
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good lesson to learn. So, uh, do

1031
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 2: do you or your kids have a favorite from the book?

1032
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 2: Favorite activity? Is there anything that stands out to you

1033
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 2: or that your that your family has particularly enjoyed you

1034
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 2: can think of.

1035
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 6: Man, Yeah, they like, uh, they like it's so funny.

1036
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 3: Man. They like anything involves fire, like stuff with projectiles.

1037
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 2: Yes, I guess that's pretty coming.

1038
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 4: Pretty you know, it's pretty understandable.

1039
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 3: Area where the day they're gonna run toward that. Right,

1040
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 3: anything on fire in their mind is like good, So

1041
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 3: that needs to be directed, harness educated, you know, projectile.

1042
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 3: Same way. And area where they really like the results

1043
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 3: but they just don't connect the labor with the results

1044
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 3: is gardening. They love planting seeds, they love picking stuff.

1045
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 3: All the stuff in the middle is without you leaning

1046
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 3: on them heavy, it's just you're not gonna get it

1047
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 3: out of them. And I think that helping them understand

1048
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 3: that that middle stuff is real important to the later

1049
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 3: stuff is great. One of the best things I st

1050
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 3: of growing was I tailored my garden to what's gonna

1051
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 3: catch their eye.

1052
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 4: Carrots and strawberries.

1053
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 3: Man, right, they can't.

1054
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 4: They don't stay away.

1055
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 3: From either of them. They're always out there messing around.

1056
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 3: And they like the fruits of the labor, but they

1057
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 3: they dislike the labor. But if I say, hey, go

1058
01:02:58,040 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 3: out and build a fire, you know we're gonna go

1059
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 3: out sit by the fire. Gonna make a fire, dude,

1060
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 3: They're going to fight over it. So, uh, it's just little.

1061
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 3: It's a little you know, looking at what they love

1062
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 3: and helping them figure out and help them learn how

1063
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 3: to do it right. And then and then some coersion

1064
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 3: on other stuff, and and and and and understanding that

1065
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 3: processes are long. Sometimes processes are long, and you got

1066
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 3: to stay you gotta stay with it. One of the

1067
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 3: projects we have is just how to start measuring rainfall. Right,

1068
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 3: you do the project is pretty quick, but then you

1069
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 3: know what you gotta do, wait for the rain. It's

1070
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 3: like a thing. Right, They're like, okay, You're like, well, ain.

1071
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 4: And rain for a week, stay tuned.

1072
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 2: A lot a lot of important lessons there. There's a

1073
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 2: lot of good stuff in both of these books, Steve,

1074
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 2: but uh the Catch a cray Fish in particular, my

1075
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 2: son Everett, who's five now, when I told him this

1076
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 2: was a kid's book, and he said, you, I mean

1077
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 2: Steve wrote this for me? Well, and I said, well,

1078
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 2: I guess. So he's obsessive that he just likes to

1079
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 2: page through it now and look at the pictures and say,

1080
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 2: can we do this one?

1081
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 3: Now?

1082
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 2: Can we do this one?

1083
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 3: So? So good. There's a lot of there's a lot

1084
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 3: of good fun stuff in there, and they call you

1085
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 3: asked about age.

1086
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 4: You know, the way it works, the books that you

1087
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 4: have to kind of like picking you know, I.

1088
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 3: Can't remember, you know that the way they's there's a

1089
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 3: whole system to it. But I think our recommendation is

1090
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:29,840
Speaker 3: I think it was the one up being eight and up.

1091
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 3: I think at you know, at fifteen sixteen, you're probably

1092
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 3: getting a bit for the book. I think that at

1093
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 3: eight you a lot of kids have been ready, are

1094
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 3: already ready for it. At eight, I imagine the real

1095
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 3: you know, ten even twelve being just you know, nine, ten, eleven,

1096
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 3: twelve being great, great years for just most kids. I

1097
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 3: think in that in that handful of years is when

1098
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 3: it would be most applicable. But there's enough in there

1099
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 3: where you can really shop around in there, right.

1100
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 2: Sure makes for great I mean for the younger kids too,

1101
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 2: Like with my three and five year old, even just

1102
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 2: it's an opportunity for me to read them something interesting

1103
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 2: I can pick and shoes in there. You've got some

1104
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 2: great little sidebars talking about different conservationists or impactful people.

1105
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 2: So I think there's some cool little bedtime story opportunities

1106
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 2: and then a teaching activity that you know I can

1107
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 2: guide as a parent. So I've enjoyed that so far too.

1108
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 2: And man, it's good stuff, Steve. I appreciate it. And

1109
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 2: I know you got to run, So I just want

1110
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 2: to thank you for carving out the time to talk

1111
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 2: about this stuff.

1112
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm manning slot Mark. I really appreciate it.

1113
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 2: This is gonna be a book I'm sure will be

1114
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 2: following me around for many years to come as my

1115
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 2: boys continue to work their way through it. All right,

1116
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 2: And that is a wrap. Thank you for tuning in,

1117
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 2: Thanks for being with me this whole month, as we

1118
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 2: have taken kind of a left turn off of the

1119
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 2: usual path of talking deer hunting, and instead we have

1120
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 2: maybe zoom out to some of these bigger picture topics

1121
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 2: that a lot of us are experiencing. Maybe we experienced

1122
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 2: them in the past, maybe we're in the throes of

1123
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 2: it right now, living the parenting life every single day,

1124
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:13,680
Speaker 2: or maybe you are listening and contemplating do I want kids?

1125
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:16,919
Speaker 2: Is this something I can do? I hope to each

1126
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:18,880
Speaker 2: and every one of you in any one of those phases,

1127
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:23,920
Speaker 2: I hope there's been something here useful, beneficial, beneficial, insightful

1128
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 2: and enjoyable. So thanks for being on this ride with me,

1129
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 2: thank you for being a part of this community, and

1130
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 2: until next time, stay wired to Hunt.