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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and this is Samantha, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to Stuff. I'm never told to your production of Iheartradios

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Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. We have another Saturday Classic episode today,

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Speaker 1: and as we've mentioned and previous Classic episode, Um, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about abortion a lot lately in this country and

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Speaker 1: on this very show, so we're we're playing some of

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Speaker 1: the episodes that past host have done around this topic,

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Speaker 1: and for this one, this episode delves into Plan B, Yes,

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Speaker 1: which has come under fire, is involved in some of

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Speaker 1: these really restrictive abortion laws that we're seeing in right,

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Speaker 1: and the access of Plan B has been less and

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Speaker 1: less per state. Yeah. Um, I know Samantha B did

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Speaker 1: that joke of her like walking out the day after

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump was elected with all of the plans. Oh,

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Speaker 1: and it's I think it's skyrocketed in Amazon. That's one

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Speaker 1: of the first things that people looked up and stocked

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Speaker 1: up on and you could get like multi packs. Wow. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's really exciting. I'm both not surprised and just hadn't

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Speaker 1: really thought about buying Plan BE on Amazon. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: when I found that out, I think it was actually

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Speaker 1: Caroline from a ladylike former host of Stuff Mom that

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Speaker 1: I told you she was the one like, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at it up right now, and oh maybe I

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Speaker 1: should do the same. Yeah, yeah, maybe I should do

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Speaker 1: what a what a positive state of affairs? The conversation

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Speaker 1: was when does it expires? Was the date? That was

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Speaker 1: another conversation, Yes, and another conversation that comes up sometimes

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Speaker 1: around this And what this episode is about, UM is

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Speaker 1: the argument that Plan B access is bad for girls

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Speaker 1: right right, So to to learn more about that argument,

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Speaker 1: we present to you this classic episode and we hope

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Speaker 1: that you enjoy it. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told

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Speaker 1: You from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline and Caroline.

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Speaker 1: A couple of years ago on the podcast, we did

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Speaker 1: an episode on the Morning After pill and what it

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Speaker 1: is UH, and we're going to revisit the Morning After

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Speaker 1: pill and specifically the branded Plan B emergency contraception because

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Speaker 1: it has made some headlines of late and we want

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Speaker 1: to talk about the legal debate surrounding access to Plan BE,

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Speaker 1: specifically access for younger girls UM. And also what emergency

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Speaker 1: contraception is Yeah, because prebviously UM Morning after pills, the

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Speaker 1: more appropriate name being emergency contraception because you don't have

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Speaker 1: to necessarily take them the morning after. The whole rigamarole

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Speaker 1: was that they were only available to girls seventeen and

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Speaker 1: up with an i D and a prescription. So the

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Speaker 1: evolution becomes that the FDA basically says it's okay for everybody.

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Speaker 1: They study the safety and efficacy, they say it's okay.

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Speaker 1: The administration kind of freaks out. The Obama administration kind

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Speaker 1: of freaks out. That's it's not okay for everybody. It's

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Speaker 1: oh my god, we have so many things to worry about.

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Speaker 1: We can't just be handing out drugs like candy. The

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Speaker 1: f d A in response, kind of tucks their tail,

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Speaker 1: and then we get a whole bunch of lawsuits. That's

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Speaker 1: that's kind of glossing over how everything's evolved. Now. What

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with is this push to get rid of

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Speaker 1: age restrictions versus the push to maintain the older age

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Speaker 1: limit with I D. And what's interesting about this fight

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Speaker 1: that we'll get into is that both sides, For instance,

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Speaker 1: groups like the Family Research Council and groups like Planned

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Speaker 1: Parenthood are both saying that this is an argument of

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Speaker 1: politics versus science and they're both both sides are accusing

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Speaker 1: each other of putting politics before what is best for

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Speaker 1: our children. Yeah, and that's a Family Research Council obviously

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Speaker 1: representing more of the conservative side of things, whereas Planned

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Speaker 1: Parenthood is arguing more on the the liberal side of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Not just to to boil it down to black and white,

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Speaker 1: but the drug in question that we're talking about is

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Speaker 1: called leave on a gestural and we hear about it

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Speaker 1: under the brand name Plan B. And just for a

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Speaker 1: little bit of historical context, emergency contraception is nothing new

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Speaker 1: to medicine. It's not like doctors recently figured out, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we can actually uh give women a

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Speaker 1: drug that could halt the egg from being fertilized after

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Speaker 1: they have unprotected sex or in the case of sexual assault.

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Speaker 1: And this brief timeline is coming from the paper Emergency Contraception,

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Speaker 1: An Underutilized Resource out of the University of Wisconsin's School

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Speaker 1: of Medicine and Public Health, and it talks about how

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Speaker 1: hormonal emergency contraception was first studied in the nineteen twenties,

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Speaker 1: when researchers figured out that estrogenic ovarian extracts interfered with

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Speaker 1: pregnancy in animals, and so it started out as a

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Speaker 1: high dose estrogen only formula, and vets were the first

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Speaker 1: ones to use it on dogs and horses who had

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Speaker 1: made it when the owner didn't intend to not with

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Speaker 1: each other. Right, I had to read that twice. I'm

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Speaker 1: not I'm not joking. It's like dogs and horror. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So dogs and dogs and horses were the first, the

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Speaker 1: first UH animals to receive this kind of emergency contraception.

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Speaker 1: And let's not forget though, about how women took emergency

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Speaker 1: contraception into their own hands even before the FDA had

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Speaker 1: a drug approved if douching, as we talked about in

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Speaker 1: one of our favorite stuff Mo've Never Told You episodes,

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Speaker 1: Down with the Douche Apparently not only did it, we

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Speaker 1: talked about in the podcast about how women would douche

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Speaker 1: with lysol and a lysol competitor, Zone Night, and apparently

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Speaker 1: also with Coca cola. It is abrasive. Yes, we are

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Speaker 1: in no way endorsing any of that. Don't do that.

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Speaker 1: We're just saying that it happened. Keep coke on ice,

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Speaker 1: not in your vagina, and that's a quote we can wrap. Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So moving on through the sixties and seventies, there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of research done on different combinations of drugs

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Speaker 1: to prevent UH pregnancy, and in the mid sixties we

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Speaker 1: have the first documented human clinical cases of postquotal estrogens,

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Speaker 1: and this is when doctors in the Netherlands use that

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Speaker 1: veterinarian proved method on a thirteen year old girl who

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Speaker 1: had been raped in order to prevent pregnancy. But by

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Speaker 1: the late nineteen sixties in the US, high dose estrogen

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Speaker 1: regiments became the standard, and then going into the seventies,

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Speaker 1: we have the development of regiments that are a combination

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Speaker 1: of estrogen and progestine. In nineteen seventy four, some of

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Speaker 1: our older listeners might be familiar with the use Pay method.

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Speaker 1: This was named for Canadian Dr Albert use Pay, which

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Speaker 1: was an estrogen progestine combination and it replaced for a

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Speaker 1: while the high dose estrogen treatments because it had fewer

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Speaker 1: side effects. And now Plan B is a progestin only

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Speaker 1: formula and it has greater efficacy in terms of blocking

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Speaker 1: that pregnancy as well as fewer side effects, and in

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Speaker 1: the US Food and Drug Administration approved Plan B with

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Speaker 1: a prescription and since two thousand nine, the FDA has

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Speaker 1: approved it for over the counter sales for women seventeen

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Speaker 1: years old and over, and in two thousand eleven, this

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Speaker 1: is when the legalities start to get really dicey. In

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eleven, Health and Human Services Director Kathleen

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Speaker 1: Sibelius blocks Plan B slash one step from being available

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Speaker 1: to all women of all ages over the counter, and

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Speaker 1: has happened in response to an application from drug maker Tiva,

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Speaker 1: who makes Plan b UM. When the FDA went back

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Speaker 1: and looked at it and recommended that it be made

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Speaker 1: available to all women, saying that it's very safe, and

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Speaker 1: so Sibelia says, you know what, I'm going to overrule that,

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Speaker 1: And in response, reproductive rights groups such as Planned Parenthood

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Speaker 1: sued the Health and Human Services Department for that. And

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Speaker 1: so in the middle of all of this we have

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Speaker 1: Judge Edward Corman of the District Court of Eastern New York,

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Speaker 1: who was the one who in April five, two thousand

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Speaker 1: thirteen this year, overturned the US Health and Service Says

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Speaker 1: ruling to put an age limit on obtaining Plan B.

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Speaker 1: So it's just been it's it's almost like watching a

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Speaker 1: ping pong match between the courts and the f d A,

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Speaker 1: and then also you have Health and Human Services stepping in,

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Speaker 1: and so people are kind of on the one hand

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Speaker 1: flipping out saying, you know what, we need to put

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Speaker 1: some kind of age restriction on it. But the interesting

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Speaker 1: thing is Judge Edward Corman, who has been presiding over

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Speaker 1: this whole plan B legality since two thousand five in

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Speaker 1: terms of overseeing whether or not it should be made

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Speaker 1: available to everyone, he is basically at the end of

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Speaker 1: his rope with all of this. Uh, there is an

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Speaker 1: NPR story about this, and it's sites from the legal

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Speaker 1: brief that he wrote. The effort to convert these leave

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Speaker 1: on adjustural based contraceptives from prescription to over the counter

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Speaker 1: status has gone on for over twelve years, even though

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Speaker 1: they would be among the safest drugs available to children

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Speaker 1: and adults on any drug store shelf. And and and then

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Speaker 1: he signed it with a giant snap. No really, I

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Speaker 1: mean I read the entire brief, his recent brief, and

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Speaker 1: it was not only fascinating and enlightening, uh kind of

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Speaker 1: get a better understanding of what's going on politically and

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Speaker 1: in the courts about this whole issue right now. But

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Speaker 1: it was just the most entertaining thing I may have

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Speaker 1: ever read outside of a David Sadari's book, because I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is like the most intelligent snark in the world.

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Speaker 1: Judge Corman basically calls Sibelius's decision to overrule the strike

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Speaker 1: of the age limit as politically motivated, scientifically unjustified, and

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Speaker 1: contrary to agency precedent. He goes on to say that, look,

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Speaker 1: it's really only the f d A that has the

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Speaker 1: necessary information and expertise to make these decisions about the

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Speaker 1: safety and efficacy of drugs. A principle he says that

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Speaker 1: Sibelius flagrantly violated, and so in response to the defendants,

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Speaker 1: who are you know, Sibelius and the Commissioner of Food

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Speaker 1: and Drugs seeking a stay of the the strike of

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Speaker 1: the age rules to pursue an appeal, he says it's

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Speaker 1: something out of an alternate reality and says that one

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Speaker 1: of their arguments that if you let it go over

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Speaker 1: the counter now and then reverse it later without a stay,

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Speaker 1: it's largely an insult to the intelligence of women, because

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Speaker 1: he's like, dudes, you're the ones who have made this

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Speaker 1: process for obtaining Plan B so freaking confusing, and some

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Speaker 1: abroad the fact that it's telling that Corman is having

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Speaker 1: such an intense response against the Obama administration's wish for

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Speaker 1: that fifteen year old age limit on it. Because Corman

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Speaker 1: was appointed by President Reagan, so he was part of,

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Speaker 1: you know, a more politically conservative administration's appointments, and so

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Speaker 1: they're saying, well, you know, if he if he's freaking

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Speaker 1: out over this, maybe also for me thinking about being

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Speaker 1: on the same case since two thousand five, maybe he

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Speaker 1: just needs a vacation. Perhaps he's just tired of but

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Speaker 1: he frustration leads to some of the beautiful things that

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Speaker 1: he wrote. I'm okay with it. I highly recommend you

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Speaker 1: search out this brief and read it now. Of course,

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Speaker 1: in April, when Judge Corman said, you know what, enough

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Speaker 1: of all this, you need to make Plan B available

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Speaker 1: over the counter to all women of all ages. Also

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Speaker 1: side note, men, you can buy Plan B as well. Um.

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Speaker 1: But of course when he said, you know, the age

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Speaker 1: limit should be removed, Q freak out because not only

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Speaker 1: do you have well you have that. And then the

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Speaker 1: Obama administration coming back and saying, nope, we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: a fifteen year old cap for that, and you're gonna

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Speaker 1: need an i D so Planned Parenthood said in response

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Speaker 1: basically like thanks, but you know what, you need to

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Speaker 1: lift all restrictions to this. And then on the more

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Speaker 1: conservative side, you have Concerned Women for America saying, well,

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Speaker 1: if Plan B is so safe, then why do we

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Speaker 1: need prescriptions for birth control? Huh? Yeah, they they get

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Speaker 1: a little snarky. Also, this is like a big theme

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Speaker 1: among this this debate is some snark. The Concerned Women

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Speaker 1: for America wrote that the same quote women's rights advocates

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Speaker 1: who want every decision to be between quote a woman

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Speaker 1: and her doctor, are now eliminating the doctor and putting

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Speaker 1: politics ahead of our kids. To see, there's that debate

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Speaker 1: of like everybody's accusing everybody else of being too political

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Speaker 1: in this discussion, right, And then the more liberal National

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Speaker 1: Women's Law Center said, Hey, you know, with this whole

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Speaker 1: I D issue, women who don't have i d s

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Speaker 1: are going to be denied access That could create problems.

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Speaker 1: How many fifteen year olds do we know who already

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Speaker 1: have I d s? And even if you you know,

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Speaker 1: if if one of us, for instance Carolina, older women

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Speaker 1: who are plenty above the age limit to get Planned B,

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Speaker 1: if we go to the drug store and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, oh, you know what, actually we've forgot our

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Speaker 1: I D. Then we can't get it. The whole timing

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Speaker 1: issue with the access to emergency contraception is important. Even

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Speaker 1: if it means oh, well you gotta leave and then

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Speaker 1: you might have to come back the next day. Well,

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Speaker 1: in the time that has passed, that low worse the

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Speaker 1: efficacy rates of emergency contraception. So this timing issue is

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Speaker 1: very important. Um and then we have people from the

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Speaker 1: Family Research Council saying, well, you know what, what about

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Speaker 1: what this hormone is gonna do to the pre pubescent

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Speaker 1: female body, because really a lot of this ties into

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Speaker 1: fear of whether or not access to emergency contraception over

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Speaker 1: the counter without an I D two girls of all

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Speaker 1: ages is somehow going to set off as domino effect

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Speaker 1: in younger girls brains that oh, you know what, I

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Speaker 1: can start having sex whenever, because if something happens, then

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Speaker 1: I can just go to Walgreens the next day and

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Speaker 1: take care of it. So the Family Research Council points

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Speaker 1: out that plan be distances the girls who are at

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Speaker 1: high risk of sexual abuse and s T I S

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Speaker 1: from the medical supervision they need. And I think That's

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Speaker 1: an important question of access because are these girls who

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Speaker 1: the Family Research Council is so concerned about, are they

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Speaker 1: even getting medical intervention? Do they even have access to it?

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Speaker 1: Are they able to go to the doctor and ask

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Speaker 1: questions and get a prescription for this stuff? Um? I mean,

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Speaker 1: what group of people are we talking about? Not everybody?

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Speaker 1: Not every Uh young girls parents are involved in her

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Speaker 1: life and can drive her to a pharmacy, you know. Well,

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Speaker 1: And when I was I was listening to Dan Savage

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Speaker 1: talking about this not too long ago, and he brought

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Speaker 1: up a pretty distressing but relevant point of let's say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: a girl is raped by her father and then she

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Speaker 1: has to turn around and ask him to drive her

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Speaker 1: to the drug store to go get planned beat you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like, it's it's pretty telling to that.

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Speaker 1: In November of two thousand twelve, the American Academy of

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Speaker 1: Pediatrics recommended that advanced emergency contraception prescriptions be allowed because

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Speaker 1: kids are more likely to use it when that's the case.

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Speaker 1: Like basically, if if it's already there, if they have it,

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Speaker 1: then if something happens, then they're more likely to use it,

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Speaker 1: which is one reason why new York Times parenting blogger

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Speaker 1: kJ del Antonia suggested that maybe you know what, as parents,

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Speaker 1: maybe we need to go ahead and just stock up

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Speaker 1: on Plan B at home, and she advised that it

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Speaker 1: be kind of as hard as it would to maintain this,

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Speaker 1: it being no questions asked. Policy like, just come come

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Speaker 1: to me and come get it if you need it,

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Speaker 1: and we'll deal with it. Then just tell her, you know,

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Speaker 1: tell your daughter that you that you have it and

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Speaker 1: why you hope she'll never need it. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: mean one thing to to point out with with these

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Speaker 1: understandable concerns about opening up a gateway to young girls,

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Speaker 1: girls who you know, it might not be a good

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Speaker 1: idea for them to be sexually active at such young

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Speaker 1: ages when we're thinking about girls under fifteen possibly needing

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Speaker 1: emergency contraception. But the Goodmaker Institute also highlights that very

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Speaker 1: few young girls are sexually active. Only point three percent

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Speaker 1: of ten year olds, point six percent of eleven year olds,

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Speaker 1: one point three percent of twelve year olds, and three

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Speaker 1: point four percent of thirteen year olds are sexually active.

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Speaker 1: But something happens between thirteen and fourteen, where that percentage

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Speaker 1: jumps from three point four percent of thirteen year olds

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Speaker 1: to eight point six percent of fourteen year olds, and

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight there were over ten send

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Speaker 1: pregnancies among fourteen year old girls in the United States.

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Speaker 1: But among all that, there is no evidence that that

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Speaker 1: jump has anything to do with the availability of emergency

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Speaker 1: contraception exactly. But at the same time, it says, you

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Speaker 1: know what, putting this fifteen year old age restriction does

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Speaker 1: leave out a population that could be in need. Now,

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Speaker 1: before we get into some of the reasons why Plan

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Speaker 1: B is really just part of a broader discussion that

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Speaker 1: we need to be having if we really do want

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Speaker 1: to address lowering unintended pregnancy rates and specifically team pregnancy

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Speaker 1: in the United States, let's take a quick detour though,

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Speaker 1: to talk about what exactly emergency contraception is. This is

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Speaker 1: something that we covered in our two thousand ten episode

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Speaker 1: What Is the Morning After Pill? But it's worth going

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Speaker 1: over right now as well. Right So, Plan B, like

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Speaker 1: we said, contained the justin hormone called leave an adjustrial,

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Speaker 1: and you should take it as soon as possible, typically

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Speaker 1: less than seventy two hours after unprotected sex. But it

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Speaker 1: is worth noting that if you're already pregnant. It will

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Speaker 1: not harm the embryo. You will experience some side effects, though,

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Speaker 1: the most common of which are nausea and vomiting. You

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Speaker 1: might also experience abdominal pain, breast tenderness, dizziness, fatigue, headaches,

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Speaker 1: and irregular bleeding. Yes, emergency contraception is not, I repeat,

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Speaker 1: not the same thing as a medicated abortion um and

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Speaker 1: most women are satisfied with the results of Plan B.

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Speaker 1: There's a nine study which found that of emergency contraceptive

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Speaker 1: users would recommend it actually to friends and family. But

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Speaker 1: it is not cheap though. That's another thing with this

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Speaker 1: whole you know question about access. We're all freaking out, well,

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Speaker 1: you know what, Uh, fifteen year olds or fourteen year

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Speaker 1: olds might not even be able to afford it if

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Speaker 1: they were even allowed to buy it, because it ranges

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Speaker 1: is from fifty to sixty dollars. And one thing too,

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Speaker 1: that Judge Corman is concerned about is the fact that

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Speaker 1: this over the counter stuff is only affecting one brand

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Speaker 1: and not a generic, and that is going to do

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Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to possibly lower the price of emergency contraceptives

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Speaker 1: and may in fact have the market effect of increasing

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Speaker 1: the price. Because TIVA that drug maker can say, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we're the only OTC brand, so you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to pay what we say, which is awful. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But other methods include the Paraguard copper i U D,

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Speaker 1: which must be inserted five days after unprotected sex and

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Speaker 1: is one of the best emergency contraception methods UH. They're

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Speaker 1: also combination birth control pills estro with estrogen and progestine,

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Speaker 1: which you have to take less than five days after

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Speaker 1: unprotected sex. And these methods typically prevent pregnancy by preventing

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Speaker 1: or delaying ovulation, blocking fertilization, and preventing a fertilized egg

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Speaker 1: from implanting in the uterus. Again, it's not terminating a

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Speaker 1: pre existing pregnancy, right, And in terms of the success rate,

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Speaker 1: it depends on that time factor that we talked about. Generally,

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Speaker 1: one to two out of women who use emergency contraception

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Speaker 1: will still get pregnant. Um It may also delay their

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Speaker 1: period for a week. But then if your period doesn't

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Speaker 1: come around for three to four weeks, you have a

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Speaker 1: dominant pain, you have a spotting, doctors say, you know,

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Speaker 1: you need to go ahead and take a pregnancy test,

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Speaker 1: but those success rates will diminish. The longer that you

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Speaker 1: wait to take emergency contraception, get the paraguard I U D,

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Speaker 1: use the combination birth control pills, whatever your doctor, nurse

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Speaker 1: practitioner recommends in that case. Okay, so we've told you

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the fight that's going on over

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Speaker 1: Plan B, and we've looked at other methods of emergency contraception,

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Speaker 1: but we haven't talked about maybe the downside of Plan

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Speaker 1: B and how it's not just a cure all for

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Speaker 1: all that ails us um. It doesn't. It's not a

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Speaker 1: panacea for lowering unintended pregnancy and team pregnancy rates because,

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Speaker 1: as we talked about, there are a lot of barriers

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Speaker 1: to access, not just the idea and prescription, but also

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Speaker 1: the costs. And this is coming from New York Times

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Speaker 1: writer Rony Karen Raven who wrote that a lot of

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Speaker 1: studies suggest that many women don't even know a morning

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Speaker 1: after pill exists, or if they do know it exists,

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Speaker 1: they literally think it only works the morning after, right.

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Speaker 1: And these studies also point out that the patterns of

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Speaker 1: use generally don't really do much at all to diminish

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Speaker 1: unintended pregnancy rates, because emergency contraceptive use is highest among

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Speaker 1: women with the lowest risk of pregnancy, because usually the

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Speaker 1: women who go and get the morning after pill and

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Speaker 1: take it are the ones who are already practicing safe

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Speaker 1: sex and maybe the condom broke or something happened, they

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Speaker 1: forgot to take their birth control pill and had sex.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there are women who were already mindful

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Speaker 1: of preventing unintended pregnancy, and so they then go and

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Speaker 1: get emergency contraception, so their actual risk of pregnancy is

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Speaker 1: very low. The issue is about getting it into women's

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Speaker 1: hands sooner, and also these women filling that education gap

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Speaker 1: among girls and women who you know, think that it

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Speaker 1: either only has that twenty four hour window or don't

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Speaker 1: really know that it exists. Yeah, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: the argument against h granting access to Plan B two

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Speaker 1: younger girls, a lot of that fear has to do

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Speaker 1: with kind of culturally ingrained fears about casual sex, team pregnancy,

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Speaker 1: single motherhood, taking parents and doctors out of the decision

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Speaker 1: to take this medicine. And all of that is summed

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Speaker 1: up in one quote in The New York Times from

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Speaker 1: Dr Mary Avenport, the recent president of the American Association

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Speaker 1: of Pro Life Obstetrictions and kinnecologists who said fear of

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Speaker 1: pregnancy is a deterrent to sexual activity. When you introduce

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Speaker 1: something like this, it changes people's behaviors and they have

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Speaker 1: more risky sex. Teams will be counting on this morning

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Speaker 1: after pill to bail them out, and they'll have more

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Speaker 1: casual encounters. And I'm sorry, that's just unlikely because of

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Speaker 1: everything we just talked about, not only the lack of

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Speaker 1: awareness that it even exists, but so many barriers to

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Speaker 1: acts of well. And also the fact of the matter is,

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Speaker 1: studies have looked into the connection between access to emergency

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Speaker 1: contraception and quote unquote risky sexual behavior and the correlation

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Speaker 1: does not stand. I mean, I feel like, like I

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Speaker 1: get a little frustrated when people seem to assume that women,

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Speaker 1: some women just think of abortion, medicated abortion, emergency contraception,

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Speaker 1: all of these things that are not pleasant processes for

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Speaker 1: our bodies as just pleasant parachutes that we can just use.

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Speaker 1: You know, Hey, we wanna just have some risk of

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Speaker 1: sexual behavior, but it doesn't matter. I'm just gonna have

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Speaker 1: ab cramps and abnormal bleeding for a little while. But

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Speaker 1: it's fine, like a small price to pay. I don't

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Speaker 1: know that that many women are thinking like that, but

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Speaker 1: my personal thoughts aside. The American College of Obstetricians and

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Speaker 1: Gynecologists have said point blank that making emergency contraception more

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Speaker 1: readily available does not promote risky sexual behavior or increase

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Speaker 1: the rate of unintended pregnancy among adolescents. Ready access of

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Speaker 1: emergency contraception among adolescents is not associated with lower hormonal

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Speaker 1: contraceptive use, lower condom use, or more unprotected sex. It

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Speaker 1: seems like, in fact, like we said with that study

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Speaker 1: finding that it's the women who have the lowest risk

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Speaker 1: of pregnancy who are actually the highest users of ec

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Speaker 1: emergency contraception, that that would probably extend down to teen

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Speaker 1: populations as well. It's more about providing comprehensive sex ed

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Speaker 1: because really the fact of the matter is this is

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's emergency conscious. It's called emergency contraception for

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Speaker 1: a reason because the focus really should be on consistent

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Speaker 1: use of reliable forms of contraception, right, and and you

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Speaker 1: talked about, um, you know, the groups of women who

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Speaker 1: are getting easy access to this are maybe not the

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Speaker 1: ones who need it the most. Philip Levine and Melissa

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Speaker 1: Kearney for an article in the Atlantic talked about how

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Speaker 1: this issue is really bigger than just contraception. The teen

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Speaker 1: pregnancy rate issue is so much bigger than just having

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Speaker 1: access to contraception like emergency contraception. For instance. They wrote

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Speaker 1: that policies like access to plan be family planning, abstinence only, education,

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Speaker 1: and sex said, don't really address the fundamental economic and

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Speaker 1: social issues that drive teen pregnancy um. They argue that

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Speaker 1: we have to improve educational attainment for young girls, show

431
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: them valid reasons to delay motherhood, and prove to them

432
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: that they have a reason to invest in their future

433
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: and not just say well, I'm never going to get

434
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: out of this small town, I'm never going to have money,

435
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: I'm never going to find a man worthy of marrying.

436
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: Why not have a baby now? Right? And they're saying

437
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: this because the fact of the matter is that girls

438
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: from disadvantaged backgrounds, from lower socio economic groups, who live

439
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: in places with a larger gap between the poor and

440
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: middle class are much more likely to give birth as

441
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: teens than girls who have similar backgrounds but face less inequality. Yes, so,

442
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: income inequality leads to lower economic mobility, which results in

443
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 1: girls who don't see a chance to better their lives

444
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 1: so they are the ones who are more likely to

445
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 1: have a child. So it's not just that they're like

446
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: going out and having risky sex, you know, for whatever,

447
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: They're not necessarily being so cavalier about it. But it's like, well,

448
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: you know what, what else? You know, what else is there? Right?

449
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: And I mean with all of this, it's no one

450
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: is arguing that, you know, kids should be having sex

451
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: at younger ages, or that we should be a cavalier

452
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: at all in our approach to sex or having risky

453
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: sexual behavior. One thing that we have not mentioned about

454
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: emergency contraception is that hello, it does not protect against

455
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: STDs and s t I, s UM. So it's but

456
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: it's just part of this broader contraceptive education that it's

457
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: not just team girls who needed, it's all of us.

458
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: And also gets at a massive fear and discomfort over

459
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: teen sexuality, which as much as as adults, I'm sure

460
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of repression going on. You

461
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: don't want to think about kids having sex. But it's like,

462
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: what are we gonna do do You either pretend that

463
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: it's not there and just hope to put the fear

464
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: of you might get pregnant and end up in a

465
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: terrible situation and hope to god they just never have sex,

466
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: which is unrealistic because hormones exist, or you educate them

467
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: and you grant access and you hopefully are you know,

468
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: a wise and brave parent. I say that on an

469
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: up end because it is such a huge challenge. But

470
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: the answer isn't fear. And I feel like a lot

471
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: of the combat against this kind of stuff of access

472
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: to Plan B is very fear motivated because kids are

473
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: gonna do what kids are gonna do, you know. And again,

474
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: I think, you know, to tie all of this up, uh,

475
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: it's sort of like when we talked about the topic

476
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: of a abortion a long time ago on the podcast.

477
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: It's like, that's not the ideal situation. You know, that's

478
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: never an emergency. Contraception is not the ideal situation. That's

479
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: why it's the emergency, like we said. But you know,

480
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: I'm now I'm just repeating myself. Now, Well, I mean

481
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: people aren't popping it like Candy. I mean, you know,

482
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: like young girls aren't just going out and having sex

483
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: like you said and being like oh it's okay, I'll

484
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: just go get an abortion tomorrow, or I'll just go

485
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: get emergency contraception at the at the drug store. It's fine.

486
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: You know, I think that's far less common than than

487
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: something accidental has happened or something terrible has happened. And

488
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: you know, like we saw with that huge jump in

489
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: sexual activity and pregnancy race with fourteen year olds, we

490
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: are by by setting what seems to me to be

491
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: an arbitrary age limit of fifteen, we're shutting out a

492
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: huge group of girls who need access. Yeah, access and

493
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: and just education all around. Um. So we're recording this

494
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: episode in May. You are listening to it right now

495
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: in June. So I'll be curious to see it between

496
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: now and when this podcast publishes, if there will be

497
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: any movement legally. But I have a suspicion that the

498
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: age limit will be lifted. I think at some point

499
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: that will go away. But I want to hear from

500
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: listeners about this access. I mean, is is it too

501
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: is it too young? You know it should fifteen? Is

502
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: it fine to leave that age limit at fifteen? Parents?

503
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: What do you do? Would you do? As that in

504
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: Why Times parenting blogger advice and say maybe we should

505
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: just stock it for them? Hey, why not? Um, let

506
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: us sell your thoughts on this more political than we

507
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: usually go issue. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot Com is

508
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: where you can send your letters. We'd also love to

509
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: hear from you on Facebook or you can tweet us

510
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: at Mom's Stuff podcast. And before we get to a

511
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: couple of mess y'all have sent us, let's take just

512
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: a quick break and we'll be right back. And now

513
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: back to our letters. Well, it got a couple of

514
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: letters here, and the first one I have is in

515
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: response to an episode we did quite a while ago

516
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: on a sexuality, and this is from Victory who wrote

517
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: in saying I just wanted to thank you for your

518
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: excellent podcasts and helping me understand my a sexuality. They've

519
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: seen me through many a Monday morning and taught me

520
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: so much about myself in the world from a feminist perspective.

521
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: When you released your podcast on a sexuality, that was

522
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: actually when I figured out that I was a sexual

523
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: and everything that you described was what I had been experiencing.

524
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: That was quite an eye opening experience for me because

525
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: I finally realized where all of the confusion involving my

526
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: sexuality came from. I came out to my friends when

527
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: I was fifteen and had been openly a sexual ever since.

528
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: Thanks again for everything, and thank you for writing in Okay.

529
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: I have an letter here from Ashley. She says, I'm

530
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: a biologist living in Baltimore, and I have an interesting

531
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: topic that I hear from men now that I'm married.

532
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: I call it the wedding ring phenomenon. I first heard

533
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: about it right before we moved to Baltimore. We were

534
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: having a goodbye dinner with a couple of friends when

535
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: the guy, let's call him John, told us about how

536
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: he will wear a wedding ring while trying to pick

537
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: up women. I thought it was appalling and completely ludicrous,

538
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: but my husband thought it made sense. The next time

539
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: I heard about it, it it was from my husband's old boss,

540
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: and more recently from his current boss. Apparently, they think

541
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: that men wearing rings are considered ideal mates and that

542
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: women will be attracted to them and hit on them.

543
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: I don't agree with this at all. Back when I

544
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: was single, when I saw a ring, I immediately thought

545
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: that property has taken and moved on. My husband thinks

546
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: that is more of a male view and believes that

547
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: most other women think differently. He believes that when the

548
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: average females he's a male with a wedding ring that

549
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: she thinks that he must have desirable traits and then

550
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: immediately wants the desirable man and acts on that desire.

551
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: I was curious if you know of any research backing

552
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: this wedding ring phenomenon or if the men in my

553
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 1: life are just full of themselves. If you do find

554
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 1: any research, she says, then I have some questions. Does

555
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: it work both ways? Does it only happen between straight people?

556
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: And to that, I say, we do have some answers,

557
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: and if you want to read them, you should go

558
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 1: to stuff Mom Never Told You dot tumbler dot com

559
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: and you know, check out some cool stuff while you're there,

560
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: including answers to wedding ring phenomenon. Yeah, and um, while

561
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: you're at it, if you want to drop us a

562
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: line about what whether or not you have ever witnessed

563
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 1: this wedding ring phenomenon in action, you can email us again.

564
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at discovery dot com is where you can

565
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: send your letters. We also love to hear from you

566
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: on Facebook and on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, and

567
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: like Caroline said, we're tumbler as well. You can follow

568
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: us where It's stuff I'm Never Told You dot tumbler

569
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 1: dot com, and don't forget to watch us three times

570
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: a week coming at you on YouTube. A YouTube dot

571
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: com slash stuff mom never told you. Go on over

572
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: there and subscribe for more on this and thousands of

573
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: other topics. Is that how stuff works dot com